Mafia 59: Hell on Earth - Game over!

[Akbar]

Random.org says 10

Vote Smashy

[Akbar]

Vote Smashy

cuz he

knows

It's a trap!

[Akbar]

You, me, Al4xz, and Akbar.

Shit you gave away our whole scumgroup!

I think I liked it better when I just had a few votes on me. Now I’ve got implications too.

[Akbar]

vote: Panzerjager

Changing so you don't look scummy.
Either your scum or wannabe scum.

Whats a wannabe scum? That like a Vigilante that only whacks townies?

Anyhow Panzer is generally chaotic. I don't know if thats the crazy townie act, or the crazy scum act. But, I'm tired of wondering. That, and I didn't care much for being left out of your original FOS, without anything to go on.

Unvote: Vote Panzer

[Akbar]

Ok, I like pages with 20 posts of PBPA/responses to PBPA as much as the next guy, but this is bad in the other direction <_< Panzerjager's reactions to Yos's comments strikes me as the most suspicious thing so far, which is enough for a tenative (

Unvote

)

Vote Panzerjager

What does PBPA stand for?

[Akbar]

@ Yos
Seems like there's alot of null tells that wind up town or scum based on whatever the poster makes it out to be.

[Akbar]

So my entire wagon is because I trusted Yos? What can I say? I really liked that post because it was nice. Well, if the lynch is going to fall on me, I'm going to vote scum. This is for being the only one to react to not being FoSed. You were so defensive it was quite funny. I'm impressed that the FoS trick caught scum and possible tww if Al4xz is scum.

Vote:Akbar

Oh I definately agree you planned your "trick" from the beginning. It's not for the reasons your using now though.

My vote stays.

[Akbar]

@ M4yhem – No. I don’t think anyone is joking. Panzer's at Lynch -2. If there is a joke being told. Now, would be the time to share the punchline.

Might i ask why M4yhem is defending Panzer so much?

That is an excellent question.

Isn't that exactly what it was meant to be, funny?

Here it looks like your telling Panzer what to say.

[Akbar]

I’ve been reading over the Panzer issue. I don’t think anyone can be sure if Panzer is scum or not. He just looks the most scummy to me. As was said earlier, if you don’t agree, don’t vote him.

One thing that I did like is the reaction I got. If some of the town disagrees with the lynch target 1 of 2 things happen. When a townie sees one of their own in danger of being lynched, they go over the lynchee’s history and try to present ideas why that person is town-like and should be cleared. When a scum sees one of their own in danger, they tend to attack the voter and discredit his reasoning.

Sure enough, a couple folks came out to talk about how I’ve over reacted and should have been perfectly comfortable for being left out of Panzer’s initial FOS. After that happened, I felt much better about being on the right track.

2 other people stand out to me right now. The 1st being al4xz. He seems quick to please everyone in contact with him. He even insults himself in an effort to apologize.

I know I don't make no god damn sense. I don't got to much up here. *points at head*
But I can't distinguish the difference between a townie and another townie!

The 2nd is Jack. Right from the start he’s been very aggressive toward others and quick to sling his vote around at anything that looks scummy. If he’s town, that can be good, because he’s doing a lot of the interview work for us. If not, then he’ll probably give us what we need to know eventually.

The thing that stood out was the exit interview of everyone he attacked. Whenever, they cleared themselves, Jack just moved to the next target. Except in this one:

Cheesefan, could you clarify why you voted for panzer?

I had been inactive and wished to show my good intnetions by voting someone who I felt to be most scummy.

Panzer in paticular because of his bad newt stratagy which i thought he may have tryed to plant that and his backtracking on Yos to make himself look better.

I now dont like panzers "case" against Twito there.

In this particular instance, Cheesefan gets the “pat on the back” for good thinking.

Well that actually sounds reasonable.

unvote

hmm

What's different about this instance? Is it because Cheesefan pointed out there was no good case against Twito? If I’m not mistaken Cheesefan’s vote is still on Panzer. If Jack believes Panzer is Town, what has changed?

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it looks like Jack and Twito are connected.

[Akbar]

Anyway, I'm just confusing 'cause it's always fun to watch people blunder around confused. I know, that's scummy, but it was funny watching you people...

I'm sold.

Unvote:Vote al4xz

[Akbar]

Vote Panzer

My vote began on Panzer. If it wasn’t for al4xz’s screwing around, I would have kept it on him. For what it’s worth, at lynch time, Twito was voting Panzer as well.

[Akbar]

This is from post 253, Panzer’s rant on Twito.

He asks if I'm betting my life and then says if i turn up scum he won't be lynched.

In short I believe he has insider information on who is and isn't town

and has a one track mind.

This statement is a self implication of Panzer being scum. Panzer is attempting to cover the issue by condemning Twito for knowing too much. Although, I don’t think Twito had time for any investigations, Panzer may not have considered that before posting.

[Akbar]

@Panzer I’m not sure if your really building a case or just OMGUSing everyone that votes you. Anyhow, I’ll respond in my most defensive way possible because it looks like your running out of ammunition.

Everyone else understood I was saying that Twito was scum, not a power role.

1st off, Twito was a power role and wasn’t scum. Although, it is possible that you made a simple mistake, building cases against a cop is generally frowned upon.

Not only this he has a total of 12 post, all 12 of them about how we should lynch someone....

Not to oversimplify, but this is a Mafia game right? I thought the topic was always about lynching.

I suppose if this was a roleplay theme I could come off with something like: Wow, it sure is hot in this deserted town. I hope I don’t get eaten by aliens or enslaved by Borg while I’m here. Let's go search the old saloon for clues. Maybe we'll find some cold beer there.

Perhaps you’d prefer some useless banter unrelated to the game: Hi, I’m Akbar. My interests include Hold Em’, turn-based strategy games and first person shooters.

…and how he is totally right about me and Al4xz. How can you be so sure?

This is a lie. Please show me where I said I know Al4xz and Panzer are scum.

Btw, if you want to talk about posting confident claims on who is scum, you might want to check your own posts:

I think Al4x is scum, but Jack is scumm too.

Now lets catch some scum, meaning let's hang an Akbar

Thank you Jack, and hey let's follow who Panzer is voting for know on,

Vote:Twito

You love to push wagons and they shy away from those who seem close to you, I wonder why Mr.Scum.

I believe you and Twito are scum buddies.

There is nothing anybody can do to change my mind that Al4xz is scum.

Vote:Al4xz

Which contrast nicely to statements like:

Unvote

I'm lost in this game.

And also, did you mention something about being in a hurry to lynch someone? Guess you forgot about these:

Anyway can we lynch some Al4xz?

Anyway yes I do believe someone needs to hammer Al4xz and preferably with out the MC Hammer.

Not only this he has a total of 12 post,…And what is with the lack of activity from you Akbar?

Unvote, Vote:Akbar

Scum are the best lurker hunters in game.

[Akbar]

@ L.G.
About Panzer's quote on you. When you wrote it, were you under the impression that Panzer had investigated you and came up with a guilty result?

[Akbar]

I looked over LG’s posts. These are the ones that stood out to me:

I think Panzer and Al are both scum, but Al is probably scum, while Panzer is possibly scum.

I don't like being keeled in the night... Hence my vote, and the eventual hammah when we don't believe Al4xz's claim.

Come on people! Al4xz has basically set up shop in WIFOM town. And guess who's gone into hiding since they've been lynch-1?

Stalling = Too much. Let's get moving.

vote Panzer

LG seemed to rush the lynches on Al and Panzer.

Well, the vibe I'm getting from Panzer is a newbie cop tell and a newbie scum tell. Since I'm not scum, he's probably insane, paranoid, or random. Neither helps us as much as the sane cop (I assume there to be one, IF Panzer is a cop).

But I get more scum vibes.

Aside from the negative connotations of wanted to lynch a cop, (Paranoid or otherwise), this post stood out to me. When Panzer accused me of being scum, I just figured he was scum trying to trap me into a mislynch. But, when he accused LG, LG comes up with the defense that Panzer was a paranoid cop.

This seems like the most unlikely event a townie would point to. Wouldn’t the most likely be that Panzer was lying?

LG admitted to thinking Panzer had investigated him before he realized it was open setup. I believe LG is scum and when presented with Panzer’s “investigation,” went for the only defense he thought available: To claim Panzer was a false cop.

Vote livingod

[Akbar]

I don't think living god is innocent or anything, but don't you think it's a little hypocritical of you to go after him Akbar?

Perhaps your right. Maybe I shouldn't voice my opinion since I voted for Al and Panzer myself. Good luck with your findings.

[Akbar]

Received prod, will post later tonight.

[Akbar]

Right now I’m still thinking LG is pretty scummy for what I posted at 547. Bogre is as well. Bogre could believe that scum is far enough ahead of us that a silent hammering on Panzer was ok even if it resulted in his own lynching. My FOS’s in order of scumminess are as follows:

well to choose a post at random, this seems like a good example of your so-called 'scumtell'.
Imho, it strikes me that Al4xz is a special townie role.
From my experience, the only time i get overconfident is when im in a special role. It means u dont have to worry about keeping up appearances (scum) and yet its not as if you have a crap role that no-one cares about.
I'm thinking noob, but pro-town noob.
Might i ask why M4yhem is defending Panzer so much?
BM

*chuckle* Looks like I've been considered scum.

looks more like a town tell to me.
I stand by my vote for Panzer. can we have a

Vote Count?

Al4xz is a noob right?
I mean, even more of a noob than me!?
No noob scum would make such an obvious inference that he was Mafia. I'm sorry but ive played alot of games with similar people, and he just doesnt look scummy. Panzer on the other hand, is wreaking of scum atm-especially with that unlikely claim of his. If he wanted to help the town he would claim. As he doesnt, he looks awfully like scum to me, plus his constant attacks on Al4xz are concerning.
Also, i think M4yhem is so obviously Mafia, it hurts. I reckon he just got sick of Panzers shoddy play, and decided to bus him. Look at his post here:

Panzer, I've had enough of your insanity.

unvote, Vote:Panzer Claim or die.

Im gonna

Unvote, Vote Panzerjagger

but

IGMEOY too M4yhem

looks more like a town tell to me.
I stand by my vote for Panzer. can we have a

Vote Count?

Gah. Let's just kill him. The dudes getting annoying...Alright, alright, I sound like scum, god damnit, I could be scum for all you know. I still think Panzer's just scum either way.

Are you saying that the al4xz quote looks like a town tell? What about it looks like a town tell?

i HONESTLY think he is protown. Lynch him if you want, but i certainly wont be helping. When he comes as an important role, we all suffer, and you will be next for the lynch.

btw-i am aware that if he comes up scum, it will make me look like shit.
However, i am willing to take that risk in order to save a potential cop/doctor/hooker.

FOS Battle Mage

for fearlessly defending al4xz on Day 1. This struck me as inside information, especially since no one else seemed to agree with BM about al4xz. Of course, this is when the vote was Panzer: 7, al4xz: 4.

At this time, the Al4xz wagon was going nowhere and BM placed the 8th vote on Panzer.
Then the Al4xz wagon picked up steam and the Panzer wagon starting falling apart. The vote count shifted to Al4xz: 9, Panzer: 6.

Well Al4xz has well and truly proved me wrong. I thought he was a town power role, but now he is just looking like scum.

Vote: Al4xz

FIRST EVER HAMMER!

Then a funny thing happened. The guy who was completely convinced Al4xz was a townie and possibly a power role suddenly had a change of heart. Perhaps from skimming the thread, BM missed the fact I had already hammered al4xz. BM then removes his vote off Panzer, who was supposedly scum and attempts to hammer the guy he said he would not help lynch under any circumstances.

-----------------------next contestant:

FOS M4yhem

for trying to fish Fircoal’s role, which was sparked by Yos.

I see that. I kind of am protecting Panzer, for reasons I shouldn't tell. I'm not certain about him, though.

Ok. I don't think you're going to convince anyone without more details, though.

Fircoal- Now that you've said that, you're going to need to explain more fully.

Fircoal- I still want to know what you were talking about. I won't forget.

unvote:Panzer

This is not because I find him less suspicious. No siree. I just don't like him sitting up there on eight votes with so few people talking. Not ready for a hammer yet.

Panzer- Will you please explain about the self-votes? You'd be in a lot less trouble if you actually tried to answer people's question, instead of vote-hopping like a drunken votebunny.
On the subject of Livinggod, how does him being forgetful make him scum? I'm not sure that follows logically at all.

Vote:Fircoal

who made an strange statement earlier and then didn't explain it.

After the fishing turns up unsuccessful, he switches back to finish off Panzer.

Alright, fine.

Vote:Panzerjager

. I don't think we'll be able to do any proper analysis until you're dead because you're too distracting, your actions are scummy and you refuse to even explain them and your playstyle annoys and frustrates me. Please die now. TYIA.

Somebody hammer.

The next day, M4yhem picks up the rod and reel again.

Vote:Fircoal

Lots of little posts lacking in content from him but nothing substatial. Seems happy just to let the bandwagons roll by without doing anything to help or stop them. I still don't like his remark about Panzer yesterday. I want an explanation, darn it, not excuses!

Fos:BM

You think Bogre might be scum, but you don't want to kill him? That's just plain daft. Also, go get your own ideas. Look through the thread. It's not hard. You don't need permission to vote, you hippy slacker.

Which brings BM’s reply:

the reason i dont want to kill him is, its far too easy.

It almost seems like a trap set by the scum

. I think a likely scum is Milkman. Yesterday he was the only voted who chose not to join the Panzer wagon, and in doing so, successfully distanced himself from those incriminated players.
He commented that the Panzer wagon was "really cool" and he seemed very disappointed about not joining it. I think that both Bogre and Milkman are probable scum, but in a game where there are more scum than town, its hardly surprising that we have spotted them. Im quite happy to go along with a wagon on either of these 2, however i would like to hear everyones views on Bogre before the day ends if he is the choice. It may help us hunt down some scum tomorrow.

A trap set by scum? The mafia send 1 of their own to the pit and while we’re gathered around it watching the lynching, we find out the floor was greased and we all fall in? Please explain what sort of feasible trap involves sacrificing 1 of their guys.

M4yhem’s fishing picks up again at post 563. (My quoted posts are taking up enough space; I’m not going to requote the recent ones)

In Jalyn’s closing argument of post 584, he points out:

Which bring me to, I would be incredibly surprised if there isn't some scum on the livingod wagon. That was the whole point of the beginning of my post voting him.

I think that there is also quite a bit of scum on Bogre's wagon

. My gut feel, at this point, is they're both scum from opposite groups and the opposing team is trying to lynch them. Er. Did that make sense?

The very next post BM unvotes Bogre. Coincidence, perhaps?

---------------------next contestant:

FOS Yosarian2

I’m wondering why Yos is still alive. I never met him. But, several people have pointed out his great skill in playing Mafia. I imagine that’s true by viewing the level of care and sincerity in his posts. Wouldn’t that make him a prime target if he was town? That leads me to believe he is scum or Worf is protecting him.

That being said, a couple posts don’t seem to add up:

fos:n9v

Don't like the logic behind that vote.

Yes, but see then it would make me look bad if you got lynched, and you were framed. For al I know, mabey you are full of shit. But then, mabey not.

..huh?

Could you clarify why you're voting for him, exactally?

Um...ok, but that dosn't actually answer my question. Why are you voting for him in the first place?

Yes, I do think his few posts have been scummy, especiually his last one.

Ok. How have his posts been scummy? Can you explain what he's done, exactally, that makes you think he's more likely to be scum?

...I don't like the "twito was voting for Panzer" logic some people are referencing, as that's a complete WIFOM issue.

That being said, I like a Panzer wagon better then the m4yhem wagon

; I don't really see the reasoning behind that one at all at the moment, and while I don't think I have a solid read on m4hyem, so far his posting style looks like what I've seen before when he was town.

Panzer- There is no Mayham in this game. There is a me, but you can't possibly have been talking about me because no-one sane would mangle my name that badly.

Wanna bet?

In this series of posts, Yos jumps on N9V about lacking reasoning for voting Panzer. Then Yos says Panzer is the better wagon. Well if Panzer is the better wagon, then why interrogate N9V about it so much? Wouldn’t you expect him to have the same reasons you do? Perhaps you wanted N9V to outline a substantial case against Panzer so you wouldn’t have to and keep your hands clean of a townie lynch. Afterwards, you point out that M4yhem is likely town and there’s no good reason to wagon him.

Because I have seen scum try to frame others and I'm very familiar with the process of framing. I'm suspicious of you for so elegantly pushing my wagon.

I don't like M4yhe playingm, he starts defending me then says I'm annoying. He wants me to be lynched and then the main person I argued for dies. He then jumps on my wagon day 2 and says I'm oh so scummy and that I should die. Well, isn't that a bit sketchy

Vote:M4yhem

That "he starts defending me then says I'm annoying" thing seems to be a misrepresentation of m4yhem.

Early in the game, he defended you, yes, and then he changed his mind. There's nothing scummy about changing your mind. However, he didn't change his mind because "he found you annoying", he did it because:

If you guys seriously think I am scum then lynch me, that is all.

You're not doing yourself any favours. I'm starting to feel your wagon. Twito and Akbar both seem to me to have some good points; if this is all you have to give in response, there will be a vote coming your way shortly.

Cheesefan- you didn't explain how the newt strategy was flawed. If you can't (or won't) explain this, I'll be forced to conclude that you made the whole thing up.

Twito agrees with me about Al4xz! High five! It's not the mere fact that he makes jokes; I like jokes. But Al4 hasdone nothing but make jokes and ask other people
who to vote for. What's he hiding?

Yos- I only have reverse to compare you with and I remember you being a lot more chatty there.

Panzer, I've had enough of your insanity.

unvote, Vote:Panzer

Claim or die.

That was where he apparently changed his mind about you. During this period of time, you were ignoring arguments leveled against you, you self voted, you ignored his earlier warning, and basically your actions were indeed "insane" in that you did things that a sane townie should never do. That's why he voted for you. Misrepresenting someone the way you just misrepresented M4yhem is a scum tell.

vote:panzer

This is another example of Yos defending M4yhem.

Sorry about the giant post. To sum up:
I’m comfortable with my vote on LG.

FOS- Bogre, Battle Mage, M4yhem & Yosarian2

I don’t really trust anyone completely, but if I had to I would trust:
TheJiveMachine- For not being on Al4xz or Panzer’s wagon.
Fircoal- For the possible role.

[Akbar]

Vote BattleMage

My reasoning from yesterday is unchanged.

[Akbar]

I posted on page 25 my FOS of Yos, M4y, and BM. I'm undecided on which to vote for.

[Akbar]

@Yos
Sure there was significance. M4yhem and BM managed to lynch another townie. Does that remove my suspicion of them? No.

[Akbar]

1st off, to the remaining 3 townies, I apologize for not posting more. Between deadlines at work, and feelings of hopelessness based on our crappy start, I haven’t found time to post much more. I’m not even sure if we have a chance to win at this point.

Anyhow, I spent some time analyzing possible roles of the remaining players. Most scum are pretty guarding on not showing who their teammates are in game. But, they tend not to hide who their enemies are. So, instead of guessing who was on who’s team, I spent most my time noting who was NOT on who’s team. Then reverse engineer based on the open set up. Since my track record sucks right now, (I voted Alex day 1, Panzer day 2, and LG day 3), I don’t expect anyone to have too much faith in this, but that won’t stop me from trying.

Alien Group:

M4yhem
Nightfall
TheJiveMachine


Borg Group:

Battle Mage
Spectrum Void
Theopor_COD
Yosarian2



Remaining Town:

Akbar
Jalyn
Milkman
N9V


I cannot possibly post all the data that brought me to this conclusion as it encompasses most of the thread. I understand that I have made a leap here, but we are in a desperate situation and our future looks grim. I realize it’s likely I made at least 1 mistake, which would become 2 simply because their counter spot would have to be filled with a different player. With any luck, I’m not far off the mark. I ask that the 3 remaining townies, even if it’s not Jalyn, Milkman and N9V, check their own lists and see if ours are fairly similar.

Right now, I think the remaining Alien Mafia should take heed of the situation. If you standby or help Borg kill us all without taking the lead, you will lose with us. (The enemy of my enemy kind of thing….) I believe BM was telling the truth when he said he was not Alien. That’s because he’s Borg. I’m confident he’s today’s lynch.

Vote Battle Mage

[Akbar]

Well BM, even if you were town. You’d be the last person to throw insults. Let’s look at your track record.

You told everyone how you found townie tells on Alex and how he might be a power role, and then you tried to hammer him.
You helped get Panzer lynched.
Then you hammered our cop.
And finally you lynched Bogre after telling us it was a trap set by mafia.

So if you are town, you might want to take a step down from that pedestal. I however think the likely answer is your scum.

What’s interesting is through the whole game, Yos takes pretty good notes of suspicious things, but he never seems to find fault in your actions. I wonder why.

[Akbar]

Thanks for the fun game Kelly.

(This was the only move the Newt made, and it was inconsequential. Maybe I should combine the best aspects of Miriam and Newt next time.)

I'm not familiar with the Miriam role. But, if your looking to improve Newt's effectiveness, how about mod posting when Newt finds a townie so Newt doesn't have to role claim. It would definately increase Newt's willingness to venture out. Would this be too powerful?

[Akbar]

@Kelly

Gotchya. After I posted I thought even though it would help town to prevent mislynch, it would probably reduce cross kills by scum, because they'd be encouraged to NK the confirmed townie. So probably bad idea.

[Akbar]

@Yos
Good point, and I suppose the Jailer could protect the confirmed townie as well. So I guess there's good and bad there.