NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[Cephrir]

Unvote

Reading.

[Cephrir]

Through page 10. Might start quotewalling or referring to specific posts at some point but I can't be bothered yet as this still pretty much feels like RVS.

Disliking Ank (the nefarious post 41), Bro (early posts), Prohawk, Stubbs, TSO (for the 'let me pick a completely random player, IIOA summarize their posts and vote them' method of contributing), TIP (mostly for his naked wagon hop around 180 or something) and Mr. Random Letters to varying degrees. A little concerned that ffery isn't obvtown yet based on my past experience with her. Zdenek and Stevie are probably town.

[Cephrir]

Page 11: In which there is a case on Bro to be made and Ank does an incredible job of botching it.
Page 12: Bro 297 is among the worst posts in this thread.

i'm pretty sure tso doesnt read

Yew, keep taking potshots outside the game while adding caveats such as "I'm pretty sure." If you're accusing me, take ownership of it.

Unvote
Vote: Metal Sonic

hahahahaha you're scum
Page 14: Ank making a recovery, maybe.
15: DOMO for town.

Gonna end this post here and pay attention more closely from here on.

[Cephrir]

15-20, not a lot here really but I want to take a break so I'll post this as-is.

Yeah, well, the last large game I played, I was basically targeted for death by the entire scum team N1, but completely left alone (and even saved as much as possible by them) after that because I made my reads really clear after that and I had quite a few of them as town. Keeping them uncertain what I thought of them would likely have made them a lot more paranoid of me since I had a very strong role.

The reads didn't even help town since the only ones that really mattered at that point were my scumreads.

So yes, I disapprove of full reads posts now.

Nacho already pointed out that this is a reasonable position based on the game Ank's referring to. But I would argue that he's not correct, of course.

Csuddenly BRO isn't even worth mentioning? It's so weak we still have yet to see a BRO vote. In fact HOLY SHIT ISO 57.

BRO is scum
We got one boys!

I didn't understand the case on BRO.

Moving on...

dramonic seems to be set on saying absolutely nothing of value.

Yeah, wow, that's really atrocious. But I almost think it's not a scumtell because TIP is kind of a crazy player and I like to think he'd pay enough attention to keep his made up suspicions straight as scum (whereas TIP's play here suggests he just wants to be on every bandwagon all the time). On Dramonic: I'm actually starting to suspect him a little because I've gained some faith in the Beetlejuice tell after League of Legends mafia.

That's kinda bugging me about several stevie votes. They look poorly supported, bandwagon-ho and (hate this word but what the hell) opportunistic.

Very much agree with this. I don't actually remember who's voting for Stevie, but I don't like them, whoever they are.

Side note here without a post attached: I hate Nero.

3. It's possible, I don't know tbh. I have limited experience with cabd, and no experience with the others. Again, read up notes. TIP was getting a lot of VI accusations, I don't feel that at all, he's stirring up a lot of shit and it seems to me like he's being discredited.

This argument is actually a little compelling. Maybe I'm underestimating him.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir... who are you?
How do you know me?

I don't, I'm just reading your posts and everyone else's.

[Cephrir]

21-30

Tough to see a lot through all the bickering...TSO and Metal Sonic in particular.

Initial read stands.

vote Stevie.

Hops on a person that people continue to push for bad reasons, easy target

What...

...in the actual fuck?

Expresses "surprise" towards a joke
Does not further comment on his vote

VOTE: The Goat

Do you have a post restriction that says you have to post two quotes and amke useless iioa comments on both of them in every post

because that is the only thing you have done this game

zdenek, is quoting someone and saying "scum" your idea of analysis? What's weird about me making a typo and then correcting it? And why am I scum for my quoted post at MS?

I think I might have been wrong to town read zdenek, his push at me comes right after rift names me and him as scum... fishy timing. If I get lynched first, it discredits rift's list... and if he gets lynched first and flips scum, rift's thoughts looks good and his comments at me will be interpreted as blatant distancing, maybe resulting in my mislynch. I also don't like his reasoning for pushing TMT... I have my doubts about TMT, but this goat fellow is certainly someone who deserves scrutiny, I mean he has 3 posts yet has an important vote down... zdenek calling TMT scummy for pointing this out is questionable.

Orc is town anyway. He doesn't forget a game where he draws scum. rift is town too, despite ff scumreading me. It would surprise me if scum could be bothered to read overly posh to compare my meta.

pedit - I might join you on this orc, I'll wait to see what he has to say.

I don't remember why I quoted this post, I think I didn't like it

did you not go to sleep and wake up to find that 20 pages just appeared spontaneously?

or were you at it every hour so you didn't have to catch up on much

Okay, your level of filler is bothering me a little. I still think you're probably town, but it would be sweet if you could try harder.

VOTE: Shadi

Nah. Shadi is playing his town game, orci. His backing down when interacting with prohawk rings so much town.

Maybe. When I quoted this post it was to agree but there have been developments since then.

Me talking shit is more likely to be an indication of the quality of weed I'm smoking. If you can be bothered to meta me, you'll see I talk a lot of crap.

Oddly reflective.

So instead of then quoting the questions I missed for me, you said nothing and silently added me to the scumpile?

weak

No, you know what's weak? This post. How have you not figured out that RA is going to play like that (developing scumlists without explicitly discussing every single ping)? It seems to be a hydra thing.

I've played with MS before and he's not a bad player. I think he'd be clever enough to play like an idiot so people ignore him for ages and write anything he does off as "lol it's ms". The crap he was posting was either totally irrelevant "Stevie and Evie" or stuff a 6 year old would understand (asking hydra questions when they're obviously in the OP). When I took notice of this he started trying to discredit me by saying "I'M VERY VERY SURE TSO DOESN'T READ!" which was different to his random posting as it had clear scum motives. So I kept after him and he eventually started relatively normally and playing to a standard expected.

PEdit: explain "PL dram".

Metal Sonic has not done a single thing that has 'clear scum motives'. He's just an easy target and you're trying to take advantage of that.

Why am I focussed on the nero wagon? Because I don't like it, I don't like those on it.

I have to agree with this. I'm null-reading Nero, I don't see that as likely to ever change so long as he continues to play the way he has been, and it disturbs me that anyone could think differently. I don't actually remember who's voting Nero right now; I should check after I post this.

Can you guys tell the reasons for your 3-4 strongest reads?

Can you stop being so freaking obvscum

Like you are pressuring people about their reads in this shitty general manner that does nothing but try (unsuccessfully) to look like you are doing something, while having basically /no reads of your own/.

My thoughts exactly upon reading 674. The only counterargument I could see is that the hypocrisy is almost too obvious to be scum, but that's a dumb argument and I know it.

Can you guys tell the reasons for your 3-4 strongest reads?

Can you stop being so freaking obvscum

Like you are pressuring people about their reads in this shitty general manner that does nothing but try (unsuccessfully) to look like you are doing something, while having basically /no reads of your own/.

Finally someone jumped onto the fact that I wasn't giving reads myself, shame it had to be one I personally read scum.

Unsuccessfully? It worked fine up until now; and I want to work my own reads out of other people's reads instead of spamming reads more than Google is used.

If you want reads so badly then ask for them, give names preferably I cannot be bothered with a full reads list.

hbdjfhhgfoewngfuwefiehqof

Vote: Shadi

so you're not giving reads, while giving reads in the quoted posts. Your posts are contradicting.
Also, your ISO strikes me as very defensive.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shadi

I realize I just voted in time with this bandwagon but there's something about this vote that tastes wrong to me.

appeal to fear

except i'm a cocky bitch

try a different route

This is Town with a capital T

Oh, now I might understand wtf you meant.

I gave the reason for my read, not the reason as of why I posted it. Nobody questioned WHY I really saw him as town and why it kept building up.

you're not getting it.

You say you don't give reads-I prove you wrong by quoting your "more or less " town read on kingcrabd
Then you say the reason why you did post that read is because kingcrabd was "extremely towny" at that time.

That does not make sense because you posted "more or less". If you thought he was "extremely towny", you wouldn't have posted "more or less" towny. You telling him it was built up does not make sense either, because I'm talking about 1 post. Sure, it's possible your town read on him improved later, but you never mentioned that again.

I'm not saying people can't be wrong. But you're trying to defend yourself using a false argument.

You're piling up the contradictions and you keep defending them too.

The amount of air quotes going on here is unacceptable. Without even reading this post carefully I can tell you're nitpicking at stupid wording choices. I'd bet good money this guy or Shadi is scum, but not both.

[Cephrir]

Scumlist at present consists of Shadi, Stubbs, TSO, letters, and Bro. Lesser concerns include Calcifer (should be heavily obvtown posting by this point but isn't, RA is doing a little better on this front) and Brian Hollywood.

[Cephrir]

just page 31 because I think my posts are more likely to be read if I make more and smaller ones

I'm tired of trying to explain and no-one is backing me up. No point in continuing a lost cause, I suppose

see this here

this is scum too

Damn straight.

VOTE: orc


no

Thirty pages and this is all you can come up with?

Dear Orci: Your read on Shadi is wrong

Sincerely, Cabd

No but seriously, this is his town meta, my goodness. It’s blindingly obvious. Go metadive him.

My goodness, why don't you actually SHOW us the game you're referencing instead of wasting your time making a pretty box?

:biggreencheckmark:

You're not getting my point either. I'll try and explain one more time:

Shadi:
I have a more or less town read on this guy.

x amount of posts later:


Shadi:
I don't share my reads

Stubbs:
you did --> points at first post

Shadi:
yeah but I only shared because he was extremely towny at that time.



Can you not see the contradiction in this?

I take back what I said about Stubbs not being Shadi's scumbuddy. Scum tend to look for logical hangups like this and finding them is a great way to bus a buddy. It's especially interesting because Shadi has just said something seriously legitimately scummy and Stubbs is ignoring that aspect.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28000 (my first game on site btw) I don't really see why Cabd thinks I'm that strong of a town, but then again he read my ass pretty fucking well in this game and with that I don't mean alignment as Cab was scum but my thoughts and future actions. He hasn't yet seen me as a

confirmed

scum to say what my town meta is and not, although I guess it's a similar feeling I have with him now but this time I'm reading town.

So he has seen you as scum, but he doesn't know it yet? Got it.

I already flipping told you I see the contradiction with saying I had reads and then not, if it's honestly the one thing you're trying to point out then fine you've already done so and I agreed ages ago. I forgot I typed one read sue me. And I never said "I ONLY SHARED COZ HE WAS EXTREMELY TOWN AT THAT TIME" I just said IN CASE ANYBODY CARES I THINK HE LOOKS EXTREMELY TOWNISH

As for the read, it's completely natural to get a different read later. So I will repeat: If you're gonna jump on that you might want to question what's really scummish.

my point is not that he made an error. If he had said. My bad, I screwed that up, I would have let it go.
But he started lying about his reason for sharing, which I think is what scum does, not town.

It's what I've been saying the entire f***** time, please iso I never said "I only posted coz he seems extremely townish". Why do people follow obviously blatant/twisted and fabricated words of this silver tongue?

You're not reacting very well to this pressure. Last sentence still sounds like something one would say about a scumbuddy.

Bulba replaced Mac right?

This head reads Mac as scum because he complained in one game about being scum alot and then replaced out.

I don't think this is valid because of reasons.

On a scale of Stevie to Nero, what end is the towncred I get for voting Stevie at?

[Cephrir]

On a scale of Stevie to Nero, what end is the towncred I get for voting Stevie at?

Why would you even ask about your towncred?

Exactly.

Then what prompted your question?

An urge to troll lightly.

Posting this separately because it deserves its own post. This is just the most massive bullshit of all time.

[Cephrir]

32-33

Why should this change anything

Nacho pointed out that something I thought was scum-driven was likely just meta-driven.

And the fact that he has played on another site leads you to this conclusion how, exactly?

Why is a shit case null, to you

There is both scum motivation (pushing a bad lynch) and town motivation (getting reactions, forcing content) to a bad case. Hence null.

Only if you believe said town motivated player was pushing a bad case deliberately...

Reaction testing is a bullshit excuse. I've always held that if you can't tell me what you've learned through your reaction test, it's not a reaction test, it's just a scummy thing that you did that you're trying to wiggle out of.

This. Also not liking the way Shadi is jumping in, posting shit that doesn’t interact with anything, then going away. Also, what follows from Orc is really solid. Orc is a townread.

Again I say unto ye: There are good reasons to suspect Shadi and this is not one of them. It's also not even true, really.

If Shadi flips scum I want to lynch the fuck out of Serene. Actually Serene is just pissing me off generally giving off reads with no real scumhunting or content.

What? Why? I have them as nulltown.

Bro's even joining other games, so town read cancelled

Liking Calcifer/Rift/Orc for town. Like TIP but less so, will probably just sheep ffery/Nacho/Syr with respect to him. Liking Zdenek a lot for town as well. I think I like MS for town, but I am much less certain in that respect. Also think Nero is more likely town than not. Still suspicious of Stevie and Doc, and also suspicious of Serene for coming in and being disruptive to everything that was going on. But yeah, I think Shadi is the best lynch right now.

Outside of Serene these reads are incredibly lazy.

a big long analysis post with only a few actual sentences of content

I really don't understand why you haven't been doing this all along. Could it be... you had to make up all these reads on the spot? Yeah, probably.

Totally open with his thoughts and motivations.

But I'm not really seeing that here =/

Orc said that my reads wall only had content of the game and no actual analysis other than the little part tacked on it under the conclusion in which Serene posted that this wasn't the case and those posts showed how he came to his conclusion.

No. Bad Serene. Stoppit.

[Cephrir]

Lold @ ur read on me Bulba sounds confused. Made my day.
p-edit:

Imo I didn't really sheep, sheeping is not necessarily bad either if the opinion is right I brought a little new info. As for Dramonic, it's difficult adding anything to that read for dead obvious reasons. He's being anti-town but so anti-town that he could just be town. Anyway, as I think I might have asked for once or twice (derp page lost some info) what difference would you like within my reads? I'd like a new method as this one was extremely time-consuming, anyway.

"I didn't really sheep, but I absolutely sheeped." You added nothing new.

Missing some posts: from what I can remember I'll summarize.

I said Shadi's large reads post felt forced and that it felt like he had to make up for not posting any reads earlier.

Shadi admitted that he did want to make up for not sharing earlier but that he wasn't going to do such large posts again because they are too time-consuming.

That's all I remember. Correct me if I'm wrong, Shadi.

I remember asking Shadi why he doesn't just post his reads when they come up instead of putting so much work into that one post. I cannot remember what the answer was, if there was an answer at all.

Rift Adrift and Crab make some good points on Shadi's gameplay. I'm not convinced he's town yet, but I think there are better options for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dramonic

Back to the dead weight.

@Calcifer: The difference between those games isn't my alignment, it's my replacement-ness. This is just how I replace in.

[Cephrir]

. Still pushing that Gambler's Fallacy, eh? Cute.

It's not a Gambler's Fallacy.

Mac said he was tired of rolling scum IN A GAME WHERE HE REPLACED OUT AS SCUM.

Therefore, his replacing out of THIS game while he continues to join OTHER games is absolutely significant.

I was not aware of this element. Interesting.

FUCK

YOU


that's my excuse, you cheeky scum fuck

I only have to explain two fucking things to you: JACK AND SHIT

I'll make this as clear as I can: I AM NOT READING ONE GOD DAMN THING YOU TELL ME TO UNTIL I AM FUCKING GOOD AND READY


really sorry heads #1 and #3, I REALLY FUCKING TRIED to keep things civil, but LOOK AT THIS ABJECT FUCKING BULLSHIT

and while I'm at it, FUCK YOU TOO NERO, YOU SHIT TALKING LITTLE NANCY

Well. Um. Okay.

[Cephrir]

@Calcifer: The difference between those games isn't my alignment, it's my replacement-ness. This is just how I replace in.

No, the difference between those games is your tone. You are more uncomfortable as town, which leads to your more rambly posts. As scum, you sound more decisive and you throw your weight around more.

Give me time. I think it's a product of reading everything in hindsight rather than as it happens.

[Cephrir]

Agree with Orc on Shadi's 797. It's the sort of work scum could easily fake because it's fairly surface-level analysis of specific people he's been asked to ISO. He spends a lot of time describing what happens in every single post and then provides fairly cursory analysis.

Like ffery and Crabd's meta argument though.

Bulba can join the town pile for now for 832. His reads seem genuine, like they come from reading the thread instead of just sheeping consensus.

Don't like what Serene is doing. Hyper disruptive and not scumhunting effectively.

Also, this sounds eerily like you know what BRO would flip... why is that? Your rationale of why he is town consists of: He is doing genuine scum-hunting and the things he has done aren't scummy (In your opinion). Because scum would never genuinely hunt-scum. Amirite? Scum could never not do something scummy.

So how do you decide who is town and who is scum then, if not looking for who is scumhunting and who is being scummy?

Okay Serene you can be scum too. Also:

FUCK YOU TOO NERO, YOU SHIT TALKING LITTLE NANCY

Mod: Can we get a warning on this?

autism alert.

Mod: This too

SHUT YOUR FUCKING WHORE MOUTH

Mod: This too

Also wow this is such fake rage holy shit. I CAN GET LOUD TOO WHAT THE FUCK???

Skipping the rage walls with no substance, but uh... No. I'm not playing "Hydra Whack-a-mole", I'm playing "find scum and lynch them".

Are the rage-walls relevant to your read on Serene?

VOTE: Serene

Hm. This is actually better.

Because as part of a closed scum hydra, id have no need to pretend i havent read the game. i could just as easily sheep my heads. or not post at all, letting the others do the work. it wouldnt matter what my reads were since no one was asking for them when the other heads were posting. id just keep my mouth shut.

shadi is pretty blatantly an easy mislynch. i read goonies mafia and if i were scum here, id drive him into the ground. and this town would be all about lynching him.

Crap logic is crap.

I'm gonna be honest, I can't be bothered to read what I missed. I started to but the letters were all just blurring together.

Baby spice is shooting up my scum list. She's had three votes down, one each for stevie and shadi, and now stubbs. The stubbs vote is wasted at this point, but the other two were on people under pressure. Meanwhile she has 12 posts and is dodging scrutiny herself.

BRO, doc, baby spice and zdenek, these are my top scum reads right now. But I've read very little since page 30, I'll read what I missed when I can motivate myself.

Top scum read seems like a bit of a reach. I thought BS was town initially, but I'll give you that she's been a bit scummy of late. I feel lie you had a post between her last post and this one, if I'm right, why bring this up now?

[Cephrir]

Mason claims?

...I'll believe it for now. I assume that there are only 2 masons?

UNVOTE:

Will reread to decide whether to jump onto Shadi, Doc, or Stevie.

This post sucks.

Somehow that's the only thing I felt was worth quoting through page 47.

[Cephrir]

Oh, and I did eventually hit my stride in Amnesiac Mafia. The beginning of a game can set me off balance, and that period extends if the pressure is on me (see: Alpha Centauri Smalltown).

[Cephrir]

Okay, I'm caught up.

Well I've skimmed but I'm hardly up to date. I see we have a mason claim from serene, and dramonic pretty much confirms this next post... this puts serene and dramonic firmly in town camp for obvious reasons. Lot's of noise from #2, I'd reached the point where I wasn't reading his posts but I'm bastard well going to have to ISO him now, and ofc dram, since we can be close to certain of their alignment. If anyone has voted for both serene and dramonic, then we should look at them as potential lynch. The MOD's ISO was inconclusive, I couldn't find anyone at a glance who has voted for both, I'll have a better look later.

Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid

I am curious to know if there's any more masons. But from a tactical point of view, I'd rather not know today, because keeping scum in the dark in that respect is better than feeding my curiosity.

If scum do not know how many masons there are, they won't fakeclaim mason, so I'm not sure why BRO asking how many masons there are can be considered as a counter to scum fakeclaims. On the contrary, knowing how many there are tells scum if there's anything to gain or not from fakeclaiming mason.

If both masons die tonight (highly unlikely but yeah it's possible), then we deal with anyone who claims to be a 3rd and final mason if and when it happens. We see if it makes sense for them to be a mason with serene and dram. It's not a concern, because it's a remote chance that both masons die tonight, and someone later claims to be a 3rd, with no 4th to confirm. It's much better imo to keep scum guessing. If they don't know how many masons there are, they can't make an optimal decision on who to NK tonight, because they'll be torn between trimming down the mason group, and hunting other PRs.

Yeah I can see more scum motivation than town for asking how many masons there are.

First post from you guys that has unequivocally hit me as town-motivated. Recalibrating.

I don't get it. How so?

Paranoia is setting in I can see.

BUT I THOUGHT I WAS SCUM?

ONLY FUCKING TOWN ARE PARANOID

YOU DISSONANT PIECE OF MAFIA

An okay argument but I don't feel strongly about Bulba overall.

Tell me, what makes us so scummy to you??

Your opportunism in attacking what you viewed as a vulnerable head (an accusation you later went on to attack someone else with after doing this yourself)
Your constant "POST READS NOW READS NOW READS NOW THOSE AREN'T READS READS NOW" while ignoring other players who have done jack and or shit
Your endless "ohhh you just wait till bulba sees this" fuck you and your bulba
Accusing people of posting fluff while again ignoring people who do the same
Your attempt to use the meta of a player who ISN'T EVEN IN THE FUCKING GAME to justify your anything ("I've seen kuribo as town and" no fuck you)

and thats just off the top of my head really

when you get to hell, tell them you're not quite fucking sure if kuribo sent you[/quote]
I don't recall all of these things occurring

Hello I just read all 20 pages fully on my phone, I have a pretty good idea who is scum and town reads now.

Would you like to share with the class?

Maybe across scum teams. They probably aren't all buddies.

TMT is trying to get calcifer to do his dirty work and defend his buddy.

If this game turns out to be multiscum, we're speed-lynching Zdenek.

No, we're not.

[Cephrir]

Ankamius: Slightly scummy early then fell off the face of the earth. Null.
Baby Spice: Null, needs to exist more but I expect that probably won't happen. Keeping an eye out for opportunism from this corner.
Brian Hollywood: Who?
Broseidon: Scummy, I've discussed this.
Calcifer: Haven't convinced me they're town, and I feel like they should have. A little scummy these last few pages.
DOMO: I've probably flip-flopped here more than anywhere else. I'll go with null for the time being, it's like he alternates alignments every post or something.
Masons: are probably masons.
KingCrabd: Got townvibes here early, haven't posted much recently.
BulbaFenix: I don't know that I really see this case, but I haven't loved them. Not too likely to join this wagon.
Metal Sonic: Likely town, but I wish he'd start playing.
Nero: Permanently null, may need to die eventually.
orcinus: My best townread by a mile.
ProHawk: Forgettable. Lean town, I guess.
Rift: Nulltown, haven't pinged me at all or wowed me like ffery did in Amnesiac.
Shadi: Scummy. Not sure where this wagon went.
Stevie: Lean town, seems like an easy wagon, don't care for those pushing it (as a result, not saying I townread Stevie *because* of that)
Stubbs: Nullscum, probably bussing Shadi.
TSO: Scum.
Goat: Who?
TIP: Nulltown, no reason to think otherwise really.
Letters: Scum.
Zdenek: Town.

I'm disturbed by my lack of townreads. This game is strange.

[Cephrir]

First things first. It seems I need to explain my vote, which I left unexplained on purpose to get a reaction (I also didn't reliaze I wouldn't be around to explain it in a timely fashion). When I initially read this post, I saw trying WAY too hard all over it. The bolded in particular...implying pops was scum because of not getting a joke is ridiculous. That said, my views on fferyllt have evolved. I'll just type out the notes I made as I went through the thread, apologies for not linking everything. Anything in square brackets is a note I added just now, having read the entire thread.

fferyl- according to herself, has a very analytical playstyle. This jives with what I am seeing thus far, although 110 is a very kneejerk reaction [and she continues to have these, but she also looks very deeply into players' behavior in a manner I find to be protown, so her self analysis is pretty much correct]

Svens 107 reads as town albeit not very good town [as do pretty much all his posts]

hohum [this was from his first few posts] is town or deliberately playing the hyperaggressive asshole town card, which is my go-to scum strategy, although this is a bit more extreme. IGMEOY. [moving the following up for relevance:] elvis 129 (hohum meta) removes the possibility that this is a tell either way.

Loran 121 makes no sense.

Serra 123: scummy.

Loran 155: scummy.

NS' continued needless question dodging strikes me as town. I feel like scum would have straightforwardly answered the question to get people off his back rather than play Socrates.

fferyl 193 is very gung-ho about lynching (though I may be biased, as one of her targets), which seems town to me[, though this may be more related to the fast-paced games she is apparently used to].

ProsecutorGodot is town.

fferyl 220 is a flip on me [IIRC]- sounded like she had a town read on me before chesskid brought me up, but now she seems to think she had a scumread before. [In hindsight I may have misread an earlier post]

Loran 241: sounds like someone in the scum mindset. And for someone who 'makes it a priority to look townie' when playing town, you sure aren't doing it yet.

Sirdani 281- you just referred to this post as a case on fferyl. It is not.

Nacho 299- terrible post. That did not merit a vote, even though I don't care for serrapaladin.

chesskid's style is antitown, though I don't know that that's meaningful.

So that was pretty much a bunch of useless rambling. The following are my overall thoughts in a conveniently formatted list. Much of this is not backed up by anything I just said or indeed anything at all except my general vibes.

TOWN (STRONGEST TO WEAKEST READ, ITALICIZED ARE VIRTUALLY CERTAIN IN MY BOOK)

Svenskt
fferyllt

Elvis
ProsecutorGodot
Human Destroyer
Nobody Special
Popsofctown

WHO? (POST MOAR [/HYPOCRITE])
Riggs, Nacho, Sirdani, GuyInFreezer, Hohum, Vifam

SCUM (STRONGEST TO WEAKEST READ)
Loranth
serra
chesskid

UNVOTE:

None of my scumreads are actually terribly strong, but I think it's protown to be voting your best suspect if you feel like you have any clue at all.

VOTE: Loranthaceae

I then proceeded to call you obvtown for the rest of the day

[Cephrir]

Well, I *have* some, but some of them aren't very strong.

There are also a lot of lurkers in this game.

[Cephrir]

=/

[Cephrir]

spending four hours on something to be told your product is worthless is really demoralizing

[Cephrir]

cephrir, how is orc your strongest townread when we have two claimed masons?

They don't count.

[Cephrir]

fair enough on both counts

[Cephrir]

When I pointed that out I was half pointing out a potential scumslip and half being a snarkbucket

I think my favorite lynches are actually randomletters and TSO but I don't really object to Calcifer

[Cephrir]

Cephrir: Nero is town. His scumgame is far less useful (no I'm serious)

I thought BRO was your favorite lynch

During the early part of the thread. This changes about when I voted Shadi. I saw a couple posts from Bro that could have been town since his massive awkwardness earlygame, and I've seen zero of these from, say, letters. Here's where I'm at now...

Want to lynch: Letters > TSO > Shadi > Bro > Stubbs
Willing to lynch: {Calcifer, Ankamius, Baby Spice, Domo}
I'll look into Nero.

I don't like how the BulbaFenix wagon formed, I should take a look at that.

[Cephrir]

looks like shameless ate

smells like shameless ate

[Cephrir]

Looking at other Nero games I actually feel like he's less useful as town, but I also think he hasn't been very useful here.

[Cephrir]

Looking at other Nero games I actually feel like he's less useful as town, but I also think he hasn't been very useful here.

WOW - let me parse this word salad, scum.

(1) Nero hasn't been useful in this game.
(2) Nero is less useful as town than scum.
(3) therefore Nero is town
(4) are you fucking kidding me

How do you feel about Calcifer bus'ing you?

well that was pretty uncalled for

I didn't say (3) but it's moved him up somewhat from null for me yeah

Deal with it?

[Cephrir]

Cephrir's lack of BRO vote is strange since he's scumreading him. It reeks of distancing without having the testicles to bus him.

Cephrir: Nero is town. His scumgame is far less useful (no I'm serious)

I thought BRO was your favorite lynch

During the early part of the thread. This changes about when I voted Shadi. I saw a couple posts from Bro that could have been town since his massive awkwardness earlygame, and I've seen zero of these from, say, letters. Here's where I'm at now...

Want to lynch: Letters > TSO > Shadi > Bro > Stubbs
Willing to lynch: {Calcifer, Ankamius, Baby Spice, Domo}
I'll look into Nero.

I don't like how the BulbaFenix wagon formed, I should take a look at that.

Nope, try harder. I might as well give this a shot though since I don't think Shadi is going anywhere today.

Unvote, Vote: TMT

[Cephrir]

And for the record even if Nero were town, he will fuck everyone over if left alive in LYLO

Unfortunately this is probably true

Calcifer, Stevie, and Nero are the three names that pop as scummy for all of my heads. Letters guy also is scummy to at least 2 of us.
BULBA to some of us but personally my own scum read on him has softened. I find ank scummy because he flies under the radar and his reaction to our claim didn't seem town. Doctor Head agreed with me on that point.

Our mutual town reads are dram (obv), Rift, ProHawk, and Shadi. Shadi especially seems like the designated mislynch.

We find it suspicious that people wagoned dram for lack of content (usual for dram anyway) when Nero has posted even less content. Indicates to us a hypocrisy caused by the protection of his scum buddies.

I wasn't sold on the Calcifer read by the other heads, but his reaction to the wagon and appeals to "mr red" have been scummy.

Stevie was saved by at least two counter wagons so far. Notice how it fizzled in the face of the wagons on Shadi, dram, and my selves? Even now while calciferol wagon slowly builds, he escapes judgement. Scum obviously not wanting to bus yet.

Mark my words, AT LEAST one scum among those three. Another scum at least among the lurk mass, probably Letters or Ank.

Shadi as a player seems like a mislynchable player if town but that doesn't prevent him from actually being scum. If anything, I find it odd that he hasn't taken more heat for the post that drew my vote.

The point about the counterwagons to Stevie is actually good, but I'm townreading him anyway. =/. If Shadi flips town I'd be more inclined to buy into this. Agreed about Calcifer, those posts were bizarre even if they were based in reality.

[Cephrir]

@Calc:

Calcifer: Haven't convinced me they're town, and I feel like they should have. A little scummy these last few pages.

+

-The highly wishy-washy nature of the reads fits the scum profile perfectly.

You are now suspecting me for being wishy-washy and for not being wishy-washy enough
+

-A feeling of needing to justify things which a town player wouldn't be likely to justify; essentially, overexplaining stances.

There is no such thing
+

Unvote,
Vote: BulbaFenix

.

@ffery re:Stubbs; my read is based partially on my belief that the two posts I quoted that one time were representative of him bussing Shadi and then unbussing when the coast was clear. Other than that there was one other post that bugged me somewhere, I'm sure I could probably find it.

re: Nero wagon; he does have to go eventually and the day on which we have the least info is an okay day to do it. I'm not sold, but I won't cry about it (and it'll be a relief to have him out of this fucking thread).

re: Metal Sonic, seriously Serene, he's been cheerleading Nero for 10 pages and you just now decide he's scum for it? It's a good thing you're a mason. Also, he's plainly town and I've especially liked him the last couple pages.

[Cephrir]

I didn't like them when I read them; his scum/town list feels empty, and I don't like that he tried to appeal to us/work with us before jumping on the "oh calcifer is scum wagon".

When did I do this?

[Cephrir]

WHat I disliked was the reasoning. But you may very well be right, I'm not as sold on him as my other scumreads. If Shadi flips town I'll probably drop him entirely.

[Cephrir]

Fine

Vote: Nero

[Cephrir]

(Shadi isn't going to flip town though )

[Cephrir]

I suck at this game until I get some legitimate information (well, okay, I still suck after that too, but it helps), so... kinda.

I think that ability is more likely to be scum than town.

[Cephrir]

If Nero flips scum that unvote from TIP will look shady. I'm liking this lynch better than I did before the premature essentially-scum-claim.

[Cephrir]

...unless Nero is your scumbuddy...

[Cephrir]

Hm. Maybe. I don't know if I believe TIP is the type to think that far ahead. I'm not sure what me thinking about that wrong would have to do with my alignment, though.

[Cephrir]

rolecop generally does not do the things that you said

its best use is finding town prs

[Cephrir]

Okay seriously why haven't you been force replaced or modkilled

In what universe is this "courteous and respectful"

[Cephrir]

regardless of whether that is true it is your fault that you're an asshole and should be banned from the site never mind this game

[Cephrir]

obviously what i'm upset about given that i have admitted to being a bad player in this thread

[Cephrir]

I never got the Stevie votes either. If people still suspect him tomorrow I'll want to hear some concrete reasons. Today is over, though. Nero is scum.

[Cephrir]

Nero (12)- Rift Adrift, Zdenek, KingCrabd, Shadi1337, Baby Spice, Serene, Cephrir, bro, prohawk, bulb, stevie, dramonic

[Cephrir]

of course this clown is from epicmafia

a particularly unintelligent baboon could have told you that

[Cephrir]

TSO started as a town read, and then slipped due to his "light trolling" for town cred, but mostly because he's slipped out of the thread.

I know I already said this, but that was legit among the least sincere sounding things I have ever seen.

Hi Thirdkoopa, I hope you like playing scum because you're probably gonna have to do it.

[Cephrir]

Looks like we're multiball, if either were vigged then we have a bad vig imo.

I see zdenek and bulba have both voted and neither look like they have considered how the night kills might effect their reads. There's some basic town motivation lacking right there. Neither explain their stevie vote, or comment on the mislynch which they were both part of. Dodgy as fuck.

Both those who were NK'ed were on the mislynch. So were the masons. The remaining pool deserve the most scrutiny as we begin today.

"4 confirmed town were on this wagon therefore the wagon is dodgy". What? I think there's a lot to be said for analyzing mislynch wagons in general but you need to take the context into account. The only people on that wagon I would remotely consider suspicious were those voting him before the Great Thread-Fucking. After that, he deserved it.

Find me a a game where you found scum based on the "not considering the flips" tell.

The idea that the number of times that I have voted has anything to do with me reading the thread is retarded.

Tells don't exist, you stupid noob. It was more your general scum perspective that tipped him off.

Wtf is this shit?

Zdenek is soooooooooooooooo town.

Yep. My read's only gotten stronger today.

[Cephrir]

Also wtf why would you propose multiball when a vig and sk are both viable options? Are you intentionally being obtuse?

I like how my speculation gets more interest than bulba and zdenek not commenting on night actions at all.

They weren't really worth commenting on? All that can really be learned from them is "we may or may not have a vig" which is hardly rocket science. Don't understand why you're still hung up on this.

[Cephrir]

I'm selective scumhunting? You and zdenek are the only two people, at that point, who had thrown a reasonless vote down. How exactly is that selective scumhunting? Who's my vote on bulba? Yeah, neither you nor zdenek. Thus, I'm not exactly pursuing this one line of investigation.

And if we're multiball, I get speedlynched? That sounds like someone lining up a mislynch after it becomes obvious.

vote - bulbafenix

I'm happy with you, BRO or zdenek. I hope the dayvig wasn't a gambit, though I totally expect it to be.

Reasons for both those votes would be abundantly clear to anyone who was paying attention.

Thanks for reminding me to look at the Bulba wagon from yesterday. They still don't look bad to me at all.

[Cephrir]

Ah, that's why I discarded the Bulb-wagon line of thought. Well, drat. RA & Calc presence noted though.

Goat, if you've read the thread, surely you have something else to say?

[Cephrir]

Strong Town Reads:
Rift Adrift
zdenek

Leaning Town:
TMTOLBTWNTOF
Serene
BulbaFenix

Leaning Scum:
BROseidon
DOMO

Strong Scum Reads:
StevieT92

Number of reads in this post that are anywhere approaching remotely original: one. Is Letters your scumbuddy>

You are now suspecting me for being wishy-washy and for not being wishy-washy enough

It should be clear that two separate people are suspecting you.

I didn't like them when I read them; his scum/town list feels empty, and I don't like that he tried to appeal to us/work with us before jumping on the "oh calcifer is scum wagon".

When did I do this?

@Calcifer: The difference between those games isn't my alignment, it's my replacement-ness. This is just how I replace in.

No, the difference between those games is your tone. You are more uncomfortable as town, which leads to your more rambly posts. As scum, you sound more decisive and you throw your weight around more.

Give me time. I think it's a product of reading everything in hindsight rather than as it happens.

Hm, alright. I wouldn't say I hopped on the you-being-scum wagon so much as thought it was a possibility, and I wouldn't call that post trying to work with you, but appeal, sure. I mean, given that I didn't feel extremely certain about your alignment, why wouldn't I appeal to you? But okay, you can have that one. On the first part, yes, I know that, but you are a hydra and should try to at least sort of reconcile your reads, even though no hydra on this site actually does that, I'm still going to be slightly peeved at you about it.

[Cephrir]

Calcifer, surrender.

Are you claiming that my assertion that I did not target anyone last night is false?

Your scum faction killed ProHawk.

That play was anti-town, Serene. Please don't do that.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Thirdkoopa

Wanted to lynch this clown yesterday, still want to today.

[Cephrir]

What are we going to do about Brian Hollywood?

For the time being my plan was to hope he gets replaced.

Get back to me if he's still here D3 or D4.

[Cephrir]

Huh?

[Cephrir]

Let Brian Holliday live until Day 3 or Day 4 if he keeps this kind of play up.

I might agree with you if Goat weren't doing the same thing only worse.

[Cephrir]

Let Brian Holliday live until Day 3 or Day 4 if he keeps this kind of play up.

I might agree with you if Goat weren't doing the same thing only worse.

so you agree that goat should also die?
what's preventing you from voting them now?

I'm too busy voting Thirdkoopa, and if I wasn't voting him I'd probably be voting letters.

There are a lot of players in this game who need to die.

[Cephrir]

Well, I'm certainly not policy lynching anyone right now, and I probably won't be interested until some legitimately scummy players are out of here. Perhaps we have a nice vig who wants to take care of that issue for us.

[Cephrir]

It's a really small point but I really doubt the existence of a town-aligned kill

Except someone has hinted at having made the kill.

Not trying to rolefish, but who?

My interest has piqued.

It's a shame I'm already voting you.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: DOMO

Ank, where have you been floating lately?

Been trying to get reads to settle in my head the past couple of days. I looked around a bit and didn't find a whole lot; not really that difficult with all the nonsense in the thread.

The game's still moving pretty damn fast, but a lot of it is just talk that isn't really alignment-indicative either way. I'll probably look into ProHawk sometime tomorrow to see if anyone's interactions with him stand out.

DING DING DING DING DING

Scumpost! Scumpost!

Actually that was basically the nullest post in the history of mafia.

[Cephrir]

Okay, I can see where you're coming from wrt Ank.

Thirdkoopa's posts are indeed bad but I'm also voting him at least as hard for replacing scum.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir: Nero is town. His scumgame is far less useful (no I'm serious)

I thought BRO was your favorite lynch

During the early part of the thread. This changes about when I voted Shadi. I saw a couple posts from Bro that could have been town since his massive awkwardness earlygame, and I've seen zero of these from, say, letters. Here's where I'm at now...

Want to lynch: Letters > TSO > Shadi > Bro > Stubbs
Willing to lynch: {Calcifer, Ankamius, Baby Spice,

Domo

}
I'll look into Nero.

I don't like how the BulbaFenix wagon formed, I should take a look at that.

You had DOMO as town on day 1. I don't remember your stance on the other players listed here. There may be others that have changed.

That list was from Day 1 so I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I had Domo as town early in my reread but had dropped him to null by the time I caught up, and he's doing worse today. The only lynches I feel strongly in favor of right now are Thirdkoopa and Letters, but none of those others have made it out of my suspicious pile.

[Cephrir]

Brian, I get the feeling you're from a place that no lynches a lot. Otherwise your latest posts are kind of silly especially given that Zdenek is hardly the only one who's done what you're complaining about, he just happened to pick a topic you didn't like I guess?

I'd also like to hear at least a vague hydra summary from BulbaFenix. I thought it was possible that could be fake-hydra-dissonance just purely because it's a really easy thing to be dissonant about.

[Cephrir]

Brian, I get the feeling you're from a place that no lynches a lot.

Otherwise your latest posts are kind of silly

especially given that Zdenek is hardly the only one who's done what you're complaining about, he just happened to pick a topic you didn't like I guess?

I take it Brian is a town read?

Not particularly.

[Cephrir]

I didn't feel they were horribly scummy so much as they just didn't make any sense.

[Cephrir]

I disagree.

[Cephrir]

I have a null read on him, obviously.

You're really grasping at straws here. This entire argument is based on one adjective I picked, and now I'm being 'wishy-washy' just because I didn't tell you something I felt was obvious.

[Cephrir]

You do that, Bulb. You do that.

[Cephrir]

Interesting. When I first read that I thought it made sense, like "personally I do not believe the claim". But yeah on 2nd read that's bad.

vote bulbafenix

either or really

Oh, I get it now. I was thinking this too. You can see how that could have been meant the other way, but that is kind of bad.

Can we get a VC in here?

[Cephrir]

Ank's play in this game is actually noticeably different from his town play in a certain other game. I don't know how much I buy the excuse considering how active he was in said game.

Dramonic are you going to start playing, like, ever?

[Cephrir]

Bro wins the argument, the argument about that being a slip is now over.

There is a semi-valid point about BulbaFenix not going after Serene today except then they started doing it.

Yeah so basically apologies for my momentary lapse, BulbaFenix are still probably town.

[Cephrir]

You and I are in-thread masoning right now

<3

Do you still think Calcifer is the best lynch for today? I'm not seeing Calcifer as scummier than Stevie or DOMO.

pedit: HOLY FUCKING SHIT YOU GUYS DON'T GET IT.

IN MANY LANGUAGES, REGARDLESS OF WORDING, NO MEANS NO.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF I AM ASKED "DO YOU NOT HAVE MONEY?" AND I RESPOND "NO," IN MANY LANGUAGES AND SOME DIALECTS OF ENGLISH THAT MEANS I DO NOT HAVE MONEY. IT'S WHY YOU HEAR MANY PEOPLE, PREDOMINANTLY FROM URBAN AREAS, SAY "I AINT GOT NO MONEY" TO MEAN "I HAVE NO MONEY."

GO STUDY SOME FUCKING LINGUISTICS BEFORE TRYING TO ARGUE LINGUISTICS WITH A LINGUIST.

You're partially missing the point.

Go read Fenix's posts today and tell me if they look like those of someone who was desperate to tango with Serene.

"You're missing the point in that you blasted half my argument to smithereens so I'm going to keep arguing the other part of it".

=/

[Cephrir]

Bro wins the argument, the argument about that being a slip is now over.

There is a semi-valid point about BulbaFenix not going after Serene today except then they started doing it.

Yeah so basically apologies for my momentary lapse, BulbaFenix are still probably town.

Go read Fenix's posts today and tell me if they look like those of someone who was desperate to tango with Serene.

Desperate no, but he's doing it now. I am aware that this occurrd only after it was pointed out that he wasn't doing so, but he's going at it with a genuine vigor.

I could hardly blame someone for not immediately wanting to tango with Serene as that looks like a quick ticket to getting lynched at this point.

[Cephrir]

Explain that last para, ceph

Well, look at yesterday. It still feels like Serene has a lot of pull in this town even though I'm not really sure why, and they tend to get mad at anyone who questions them.

[Cephrir]

Yes, I was obviously gung-ho about that wagon which explains why I wasn't on it, not to mention why I've been against the wagon everywhere but that one post where I started to reconsider. Brilliant deduction, Bulb.

I counted the votes myself when I asked for a VC, not that I could prove this, came up with 5, and proceeded to not vote. Even at my most dubious I still considered my current vote vastly superior.

[Cephrir]

"Looks like multiball" != "is multiball"

I don't see the scum motivation in pretending to suspect Serene, seeing as there is no chance it will ever amount to anything.

[Cephrir]

I'd pick Stubbs out of that list, but not incredibly enthusiastically.

[Cephrir]

A little confused how anyone could not be scumreading thirdkoopa/tso but I guess I'm biased

Also, the term white knight wouldn't stop Bulba from being scum if it's multiball

[Cephrir]

A little confused how anyone could not be scumreading thirdkoopa/tso but I guess I'm biased

Please expand upon why you have such a strong scumread on him.

read my posts =/

[Cephrir]

I actually agree wrt The Goat, I've gotten town vibes from his admittedly few posts.

[Cephrir]

If anything suggesting dram be vigged is a towntell. You should really quit badgering orci, he's pretty clearly town.

Because the way we're headed right now it looks like we're going to continue following Serene this whole game, and it'd be nice to have actual confirmation of their alignment.

Please note that this post does not actually condone vigging dram.

[Cephrir]

If anything suggesting dram be vigged is a towntell. You should really quit badgering orci, he's pretty clearly town.

Because the way we're headed right now it looks like we're going to continue following Serene this whole game, and it'd be nice to have actual confirmation of their alignment.

Please note that this post does not actually condone vigging dram.

Buddying up to Orc and distancing from the vig. call all at the same time. Nice.

-Bulba

yes having townreads is so scummy

you're right I should have suggested we vig a mason

I'm starting to wonder if I was wrong about you, I feel like you're trying really hard to find a reason to suspect me

[Cephrir]

Definite Scum: BRO, King Crabd, Zdenek
Leaning Scum: Letters, Calcifer, Metal Sonic, StubbsKVM, BulbaFenix
Null/Scum: Calcifer, Thirdkoopa, Shadi
Leaning Town: The Goat, serene
Definitely Town: Orcinus

Tell me about KingCrabd and Metal Sonic. I'd also like to hear your personal reasons for suspecting Calcifer if you haven't already mentioned them. Since I already know Zdenek is basically mutual OMGUS at this point, I won't bother with that.

[Cephrir]

Upon briefly ISOing Stevie I can't really figure out why he seems dead set on Bro. I mean he iso'd Bro, posted about his posts, mentioned a couple quotes he didn't like, and apparently that's supposed to constitute a #1 scum read? =/

[Cephrir]

Page 60. I've been super busy. Trying to FINALLY finish Day 1.

Anyone have an actual reason for voting me asides from lurking?

Yes.

I didn't really get the argument against Ank until we got to his reads changing, at which point I understood it but didn't think it was very good.

The idea that mentioning one of the masons but not the other could be a scumtell is ridiculous. There's no scum motivation, and in fact no reason anyone would do it at all.

[Cephrir]

^

The Ank wagon is mediocre. Elect Thirdkoopa 2013.

[Cephrir]

Pretty colors.

Can I write in Stevie as a 3rd party candidate?

You can, but your vote won't count because we're using a first-past-the-post electoral system.

[Cephrir]

Frankly, I think scum hopped on in the middle to see where it went, fencesat, or stuck on Stevie

Which explains why your suspicions are from those who hopped on at the beginning, a Stevie voter, and... Stevie?

I don't really care for a lot of those quote + obvious one liners, nor do I especially care for replacing in and acting like everyone who suspected dead townies was being stupid.

How did those posts convince you he might be town DGB? They're not even good.

Also can we stop with the dayvig reaction test already? It's really fucking dumb and needs to be killed with fire.

Oh, I'm not apologizing for scummy behavior of my replacement, I'm saying "If I were any other slot, I could see how you guys could draw the conclusion of

TSO

being SK, but not myself as much"

Besides, I have nothing to apologize for on his front.

What? Who even said anything about TSO being an SK?

[Cephrir]

I said I suspected TSO right as I replaced in, there were reasons for that in my catchup posts, but I dropped it for Day 1 because it obviously wasn't going to happen. I've already said most of the things that have bothered me about you, though I didn't go in depth with this latest batch as I could have.

I'd still call KingCrabd and Shadi the beginning of that wagon. And as far as I can tell, you suspect KingCrabd just because they said "for now"?

And I've certainly said more against your slot than you have against Stevie, but you're allowed to vote off the essentially nothing you mentioned about him?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Ankamius

That should equalize both main wagons some.

>annoyed that neither wagon is likely to get in claim range

>votes in such a fashion as to ensure that doesn't happen

[Cephrir]

TMTOLBTWNTOF probably will stay unvoting because scum likes to do that.

Check out my games.

Does at least 1 of your heads thinks Calcifer is scum?


VOTE: Koopa

Shit like this makes me second guess myself.

Then again, could be bussing or multiball.

[Cephrir]

How to engage in a thread: First, read the thread. Then, share your opinion about what happened. Wow, that was hard.

[Cephrir]

We call such quickhammerers by the shorthand term "scum".

[Cephrir]

Why would you say that Serene =/

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

Although let's be fair, ultra pro sleeves are vastly inferior to the japanese ones.

It's true. Super Black every day.

[Cephrir]

I don't think you're picking up what I'm putting down, Bulba. I gathered that, despite my defense, you suspect me over that. But since then you've been fitting the evidence to your read instead of vice versa and criticizing me for completely innocuous things. I'm not sure how you managed to interpret me saying, albeit indirectly, that I wasn't on board with the Ank wagon as a filler post. That is literally a concrete opinion.

P-edit: Wait no one else but me realized that hammer was fake? XD

I thought everyone was playing along.

[Cephrir]

Unvote

[Cephrir]

Unvote

Is that it?

I wanted to make sure I got that in since I was having trouble maintaining an internet connection for more than 2 seconds at a time

It looks like I'm a shitty scumhunter. Somehow, no matter how many times I learn this, I continue to be surprised every time.

I need to think about where I want to go next.

Pedit: DOMO is clearly referring to Koopa and Crabd, and I find his hypothesis somewhat silly.

[Cephrir]

That's right, I said "silly" again. And this time I was referring to someone I'm not particularly even townreading! Oooooh, spoooooooooooky

[Cephrir]

Page 119-125:

I think we're mutliball, but be careful saying that word because bulba has a hard on for me for suggesting it.

I love the attempt to discredit me. Recent events have made me think that I may be right.

*attempts to discredit DOMO right back*

ok

unvote

, I'm just being paranoid.

This feels fake.

No, it really doesn't?

The pressure comes off BulbaFenix and they vanish. I'm shocked.

The pressure comes off BulbaFenix and they vanish. I'm shocked.

VOTE: BulbaFenix

Activity levels and replacing out are not scumtells. No wonder you 2 are bad at finding scum with thought processes such as these. I mean, sheesh, Zdenek called me scum in a previous game, because he didn't like to read walls! These are not scumtells! Basing your reads on stupid crap such as this is going to do the town more harm than good, and we will end up losing the game, because you 2 can't learn to figure out what is and is not scummy!

Disappearing under pressure is scummy if you were posting elsewhere (I don't know whether this is the case).

Hey, Serene. Legit question. Which between BulbaFenix and Thirdkoopa do you want to lynch more? They're both scum, and quite blatantly obviously so, but we only have the power to lynch one of them. Will happily switch to BulbaFenix if that's your preference.

What was your case against us again? Because I don't believe you've ever legitimately made one. Also, attempt to buddy up to Serene noted.

How dare you agree with or suggest sheeping the essentially confirmed town, Calcifer!

I don't think you're picking up what I'm putting down, Bulba. I gathered that, despite my defense, you suspect me over that. But since then you've been fitting the evidence to your read instead of vice versa and criticizing me for completely innocuous things. I'm not sure how you managed to interpret me saying, albeit indirectly, that I wasn't on board with the Ank wagon as a filler post. That is literally a concrete opinion.

Page 60. I've been super busy. Trying to FINALLY finish Day 1.

Anyone have an actual reason for voting me asides from lurking?

Yes.

I didn't really get the argument against Ank until we got to his reads changing, at which point I understood it but didn't think it was very good.

The idea that mentioning one of the masons but not the other could be a scumtell is ridiculous. There's no scum motivation, and in fact no reason anyone would do it at all.

You put little effort into answering Koopa's question concerning your case on him (a "yes" is not sufficient). You then comment on the recent events surrounding Ank, saying that you understand the argument but don't agree with it, and you disagree with the "not including both masons" scumtell. In essence, you are putting forth like you are contributing, but in actuality, you aren't saying much.

"Yes" indicated that I had already given my reasons. I don't disagree with your summary of my post, but I do disagree with your assertion that I wasn't really contributing. I don't see how this post is unlike any other in that regard, and I'm literally giving my opinion on recent events.

I smell a rat. If they have daytime talk, they could've hatched a plan to save koopa. If one flips scum, the other is an easy lynch. He couldn't wait to claim, he kept hinting he was PR before.

So you criticize and call people scum for questioning a PR claim (mason), but then you proceed to...question a PR claim? This is the most ridiculous attempt to try to mislynch a town PR that I've ever seen. You're going, "Ooooh, scum could have day talk, and they came up with a 2-shot vig that hasn't shot. When some mystery person flips scum, we should lynch the confirmed town, because he was breadcrumbing his role." Seriously, that is ludicrous. There were at least a couple times catching up that I noticed almost blatant breadcrumbing from BEFORE Koopa was ever ran up. Not to mention that if this was a scum gambit, Koopa could have gotten away with claiming one of the night kills (I'm thinking TIP.), instead of admitting that he hasn't shot yet. Essentially, this is pure desperation on your part.

It really isn't. It's clear that we aren't going to lynch Koopa today, so the argument that DOMO was trying to mislynch it is ridiculous. Setting up for it way down the line, maybe, but there's no way he's trying to do it today. THere's nothing wrong with being a bit paranoid about the claim, his theory isn't so hot, but the thought crossed my mind as well. Koopascum absolutely would not have claimed one of the kills, seeing as when an SK/second mafia turned up or that kill kept appearing after N2 he's be lynched on the spot...

Your opinions lately feel really manufactured. I regret defending you.

[Cephrir]

I thought Marquis was counterclaiming at first but then some of his posts got weird, so I wasn't sure. I think we're going to need him to out with it.

I'm not really defending you DOMO, much as that may have been a side effect, I'm attacking Bulba. While I think there are legitimate criticisms to be made of you, he's reaching to criticize things that aren't scummy, just like he's doing with me. Even if I was defending you though, I don't see what would be wrong with that.

[Cephrir]

I'm not buddying you, you'll know when I'm buddying you because I'll call you town and agree with your points.

Marquis you are pretty much out at this point, just spit it out.

[Cephrir]

You would? First I've heard of it.

Boy, the suspicions of me are really coming out of the woodwork, huh?

[Cephrir]

Excuse you? I can't shoot anyone.

[Cephrir]

Page 119-125:

I think we're mutliball, but be careful saying that word because bulba has a hard on for me for suggesting it.

I love the attempt to discredit me. Recent events have made me think that I may be right.

*attempts to discredit DOMO right back*

How is that discrediting DOMO? I've said multiple times that I think he is scum and why I think so.

Also, why would you defend someone else, especially on something that has nothing to do with you or anybody else, but are questions aimed specifically at that person. That is incredibly scummy, especially since what you did was not so much defending, but rather attacking, on a case that had nothing to do with you.

Hoo boy, I so do not want to start this wallfight, but evidently you aren't giving me a choice. If you can't see how that post is an attempt to discredit him, I can't help you. I got attacked for answering questions addressed to others in Amnesiac Mafia as well and I have yet to grasp why people see this as a problem. I saw you making a shitty case and I thought it was scummy, so I pointed out the flaws in your arguments. I will continue to debate shitty arguments regardless of who they are directed at.

Disappearing under pressure is scummy if you were posting elsewhere (I don't know whether this is the case).

I explained that I have hardly been posting anywhere on site, mainly focusing on my first modded game. But you already know that your accusation is false, which makes this the equivalent of throwing dirt.

I literally said I didn't know whether it was the case. If you said that already, I missed it. But you already knew that I didn't know my accusation was false since I said I wasn't sure, which makes this the equivalent of throwing dirt.

Hey, Serene. Legit question. Which between BulbaFenix and Thirdkoopa do you want to lynch more? They're both scum, and quite blatantly obviously so, but we only have the power to lynch one of them. Will happily switch to BulbaFenix if that's your preference.

What was your case against us again? Because I don't believe you've ever legitimately made one. Also, attempt to buddy up to Serene noted.

How dare you agree with or suggest sheeping the essentially confirmed town, Calcifer!

Stop cutting me off and answering other people's questions! I wanted Calcifer to restate his case, and you essentially patted him on the head and said, "It's okay. Cephy's here...".

And I didn't like the way you did it, firstly. Secondly, I *didn't* answer the question and there is nothing preventing Calcifer from restating the case just because I commented on your question.

"Yes" indicated that I had already given my reasons. I don't disagree with your summary of my post, but I do disagree with your assertion that I wasn't really contributing. I don't see how this post is unlike any other in that regard, and I'm literally giving my opinion on recent events.

What exactly did you contribute? That you understood the reasoning but didn't agree with it? All while not moving the conversation forward or contributing in the scumhunting effort whatsoever? That's not content. That's the illusion of content.

I expressed that I was not scumreading Ank. By extension, I guess posting townreads is a waste of time as well? You could have picked most posts in this thread and found about as much content as that post, hell *I've* made a lot of posts with less content, so your singling that one out reads as looking for a reason to attack me.

Your opinions lately feel really manufactured. I regret defending you.

Translation: "You should feel bad that I'm not on your side."

That's not town thought at all.

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, particularly words that aren't there. I didn't say anything about how you should feel about it, I was just explicitly stating for the benefit of not you that I am officially no longer on your side.

Even if I was defending you though, I don't see what would be wrong with that.

Translation: "If I was buddying you, and I'm not saying I am, how would that be scummy?"

Yes, good job, you rearranged my words and put "Translation" in front of them. Did you have a point, or are you hoping someone else finds a reason this is bad for you?

I'm not buddying you, you'll know when I'm buddying you because I'll call you town and agree with your points.

Translation: "I couldn't possibly be buddying you, because if I was, I'd be blatantly obvious. WIFOM. WIFOM. WIFOM."

What? Buddying someone requires agreeing with them or thinking they're town by definition. It is not possible to buddy someone without doing one or both of those things. That's all there is to it.

The more Bulba and DOMO go at it, the more I think Bulbafenix is town and DOMO scum.

Go buddy someone else.

Are you trying to make everyone want to lynch you? It's working.

[Cephrir]

By the way, good job voting me before I vote you so it looks like my vote is the OMGUS one when it's really not.

VOTE: BulbaFenix

[Cephrir]

Despite Ank's godawful implausible crumbs, I'm not lynching him today barring an actual CC.

[Cephrir]

Page 119-125:

I think we're mutliball, but be careful saying that word because bulba has a hard on for me for suggesting it.

I love the attempt to discredit me. Recent events have made me think that I may be right.

*attempts to discredit DOMO right back*

How is that discrediting DOMO? I've said multiple times that I think he is scum and why I think so.

Also, why would you defend someone else, especially on something that has nothing to do with you or anybody else, but are questions aimed specifically at that person. That is incredibly scummy, especially since what you did was not so much defending, but rather attacking, on a case that had nothing to do with you.

Hoo boy, I so do not want to start this wallfight, but evidently you aren't giving me a choice. If you can't see how that post is an attempt to discredit him, I can't help you. I got attacked for answering questions addressed to others in Amnesiac Mafia as well and I have yet to grasp why people see this as a problem. I saw you making a shitty case and I thought it was scummy, so I pointed out the flaws in your arguments. I will continue to debate shitty arguments regardless of who they are directed at.

First, his post was a backhanded attempt to discredit my case against him, which I find scummy. My post, however, did nothing to discredit him, unless you are now claiming that saying somebody is scum is discrediting them. Second, you were not "pointing out flaws" in my argument. You were full on attacking me. At no point did you go, "I think you're wrong because...". Instead you overtly attacked me. So yes, what you did was incredibly scummy, because answering questions or addressing points made to someone else takes the pressure off of that person.

Well yeah, if someone is scum we shouldn't listen to their opinions. There is no difference in my view between pointing out flaws in your argument and attacking you, except that I was also saying your argument was scummy. It's ridiculous to say that I didn't give reasons I disagreed with you; if I didn't I would have just voted you and said nothing. Shall I wait patiently for someone to address an argument before I demonstrate what garbage it is?

Disappearing under pressure is scummy if you were posting elsewhere (I don't know whether this is the case).

I explained that I have hardly been posting anywhere on site, mainly focusing on my first modded game. But you already know that your accusation is false, which makes this the equivalent of throwing dirt.

I literally said I didn't know whether it was the case. If you said that already, I missed it. But you already knew that I didn't know my accusation was false since I said I wasn't sure, which makes this the equivalent of throwing dirt.

Don't give me that "I didn't know my accusation was false" bull crap. You are one of 5 people in this game that would know for sure whether I was active elsewhere or not. Even if you didn't know, you could always click on my name, go to my profile, and then check my activity. This "I couldn't possibly know" defense is bull crap, scummy, and is a lie.

I wasn't cognizant whether you had posted elsewhere and didn't care nearly enough to check. I didn't say I couldn't possibly know, I could easily have checked, but I didn't.

Stop cutting me off and answering other people's questions! I wanted Calcifer to restate his case, and you essentially patted him on the head and said, "It's okay. Cephy's here...".

And I didn't like the way you did it, firstly. Secondly, I *didn't* answer the question and there is nothing preventing Calcifer from restating the case just because I commented on your question.

As soon as you address the question posed to somebody else, you eliminate the pressure that was on that person. Calcifer didn't have to answer anymore, because you eliminated the need to. And all so you could make a snide comment and deride my statement, all in an effort to discredit me.

First of all, false. Calcifer is not released from the obligation of having to answer a question just because I thought the question was scummy. I didn't even answer it, but you have of course ignored that fact. That's stupid. I thought we just established that you think discrediting someone and calling them scum are different things, but I guess that's only the case when you want it to be.

I expressed that I was not scumreading Ank. By extension, I guess posting townreads is a waste of time as well? You could have picked most posts in this thread and found about as much content as that post, hell *I've* made a lot of posts with less content, so your singling that one out reads as looking for a reason to attack me.

First, that is

reductio ad absurdum

, as you are misrepresenting my argument and stretching it to an absurd level with that townread comment.

It's not. If there is no point in posting that I don't think X is scummy, then there is no point in posting that I think X is town. The problem is not how I've interpreted your argument (and by the way you have ZERO right to complain about words being put in your mouth after your snotty "translations"), but your argument sucking.

Second, in that post you gave a throwaway answer ("yes"), followed by a comment on current events which did nothing to advance the argument. You did not contribute to the exchange. You merely acknowledged it. If you were town, you would tried to be more proactive, whether it was asking some questions of either party, or simply adding something new to the conversation. You did none of that. You were trying to appear helpful and look like you were contributing, when you actually were not. There is no town motivation to do that, but there is a lot of scum motivation.

I added to a different conversation. I'm not going to continue this line of argument because what you just said does literally nothing to discredit what I said in 3280, and is in fact irrelevant to my point that you basically picked a random post of which to make this criticism.

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, particularly words that aren't there. I didn't say anything about how you should feel about it, I was just explicitly stating for the benefit of not you that I am officially no longer on your side.

You were implying that I should feel bad about it in some way. And why should it matter if you're on my side or not? Why should I care?

Is this a joke? I said I was stating it for the benefit of "not you". I don't give a damn what you think at this point. You can feel bad if you want, I don't give a fuck.

Even if I was defending you though, I don't see what would be wrong with that.

Translation: "If I was buddying you, and I'm not saying I am, how would that be scummy?"

Yes, good job, you rearranged my words and put "Translation" in front of them. Did you have a point, or are you hoping someone else finds a reason this is bad for you?

Didn't I mention? You're scum, and blatantly obvious, toying scum at that.

So you're admitting that you had no argument here whatsoever?

What? Buddying someone requires agreeing with them or thinking they're town by definition. It is not possible to buddy someone without doing one or both of those things. That's all there is to it.

For buddying, all you have to be is on different teams or alignments. And buddying is not about agreeing with a person, it's about saying, "I'm on your side.". Otherwise, buddying scum would always be spotted for how obvious they were being.

I disagree, nor do I believe buddying is inherently scummy.

The more Bulba and DOMO go at it, the more I think Bulbafenix is town and DOMO scum.

Go buddy someone else.

Are you trying to make everyone want to lynch you? It's working.

I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be a popularity contest? I thought we were supposed to be finding scum, lynching scum, and contributing to a town win. If I am able to catch some scum and help town win, who cares how much I'm liked? Why should it matter? The only ones who would be worried about such things are scum, because they want to survive until endgame. Your whole outlook on this game comes from a scum mindset rather than a town mindset.

Yes, wanting to lynch someone is the same as disliking them.

Brilliant deduction, Sherlock.

By the way, good job voting me before I vote you so it looks like my vote is the OMGUS one when it's really not.

VOTE: BulbaFenix

This feels like you are overjustifying your reason for voting me (i.e. OMGUS).

The OMGUS has nothing to do with why I'm voting you, I just wanted to prevent you from making an incredibly tiresome and stupid argument that I could see coming a mile away.



@RA: If players are reading these walls, they should be either convinced or not convinced by each player's arguments, yes? Sooo...

[Cephrir]

congrats, you're the king of twisting words, i can't argue with someone who's going to ignore my rebuttals and carry on as though they were never made except when he wants to cherry pick one word choice to make me look bad

[Cephrir]

ugh, i'll probably fucking try to respond anyway, i'm just mad and feeling demotivated

[Cephrir]

i can't deal with this shit today, see you when that changes

[Cephrir]

you have a real knack for sounding like you're winning an argument when you're actually just hoping no one notices how blatantly full of shit you are

i need to shut up now

[Cephrir]

If you end the day before i come back i will be pissed.

this

[Cephrir]

I will deal with this before I go to sleep this evening

[Cephrir]

no, lynch in a few hours please

[Cephrir]

I am fully capable of rebutting the other wall (or I would be if it weren't based on ignoring context and points I'd already made) but I'm tired so I'll respond to the short version for now.

Cephrir case:

1.) He's playing it extremely safe when it comes to taking stances. Save for a few reads on the fringes, he's refusing to take a stance on the actions or alignment of the players in this game. Seriously, is what Ank or Brian doing town, scummy, null? Give us something! Not just, "silly" or "it could be viewed as such" or "I see your point". All of this is extremely weak, as if he doesn't want to offend anybody. And if you disagree, why mention that you see that point anyway? Because by disagreeing, you obviously don't! All he's doing by saying stuff like that is keeping his options open for later on.

I am fully capable of providing a reads list and have an opinion on ever player in the game right now, even if it's null. I was leaning town on Ank until the claim, which made me less sure. Brian is null for me off the top of my head. I may respond to particular points in the way you describe but that doesn't mean I don't have opinions. I'm not the type of player to shout all my reads to the heavenes constantly so that no one forgets any of them- I make it clear when I have a strong read one way or the other, though, and will step up to defend those reads. The only really strong reads I've had thus far are orci (town), Zdenek (town), you (scum), thirdkoopa (scum, pre-hammer fiasco). I'm close to adding RA and Crabd to the town list and had Letters/Bro/Shadi as stronger scum reads than I currently do at points in the past. If you think it's scummy that I haven't been offending anyone or taking a lot of strong stances, you have not done even a half second of meta on me.

2.) When he does follow through on the line of thought that he left open, he still doesn't push it hard. Look at his stance on our wagon. He says, "Well, it can obviously be X, but that is a good point. Bulba should be lynched.", while not voting or pushing our wagon at all. Later, when Orcinus and BRO start taking apart the logic that was driving the wagon, Cephrir immediately backpedals and said "I had a momentary lapse. Bulba is town.", again siding with whoever was in charge of the momentum. Again, I want to remind you he did all this WHILE NEVER VOTING, in other words, he still avoided taking a definite stance, even when he was backing the wagon. If you want another post where he refused to take a stance and distanced himself from what he said, look here.

I wrote ONE POST where I was starting to rethink my stance on you. I did not say "Bulba should be lynched" at that time, that's just not true. In my very next post, if I recall correctly, it had been pointed out that something was wrong with the argument I was buying into. Therefore, I returned to my original position. I did not vote you in that post because even in that moment I was still scumreading Koopa, Letters and Shadi more strongly.

The post you linked to does not demonstrate me distancing myself from what I said. Openly suggesting vigging the masons was such a ridiculous idea that I thought it was a towntell that someone would suggest it. While we're at it, all I do in that post is say I got a towntell off orci, and you immediately accused me of buddying him. It's obvious that you don't understand how buddying works.

3.) He is not actually contributing, but rather pretending to in order to appear town. Again, his refusing to take stances are examples of this. And even better example is his post #2898, which I have explained in detail why it is bad.

All I can do with this is respond to the linked post again, for the beneift of everyone else. You claim to have explained it detail why it's bad but all you've said about that post is "look Ceph's not contributing he's not contributing look how unhelpful this post is". That is literally the opposite of a detailed explanation, and when I've asked for one (e.g. how this post is any worse in that regard than any arbitrary post) you have had no argument. You have yet to present an argument for how I'm not contributing to this game other than "You're not contributing to this game". It's complete bullshit.

4.) He's buddying up to other players, particularly DOMO.

If arguing with your case is buddying DOMO then sure, I'm buddying him all day and all night.

5.) He's attempting to discredit cases, rather than disprove them. As I've said before, doing so is a major scumtell for me, as the whole purpose of discrediting a case is so you don't have to actually address. This squelches discussion, which is a scumtell.

In what universe is arguing that your case isn't any good because look at all these ways your argument is bad not disproving it? What's even the distinction here? How can I prove anything in a mafia game without a flip? This point might as well be a bunch of random letters, it's a completely meaningless accusation.

6.) Going to condense this into one point instead of multiple: He is tackling this game from a scum mindset, rather than a town one.

I can't argue with blanket statements, I guess people will have to read the walls and decide for themselves on that one......

7.) He's actually being incredibly overt with the fact that he's scum and is toying with the town, daring us to come after him. This can be seen in his hypothetical to DOMO ("If I was buddying you, and I'm not saying that I am, how would that be scummy?"). He's not content with just playing mindgames with town. He wants to openly mock us. And for that, I don't want to just lynch him. I want to crucify him, then set the corpse on fire, all while we dance around the flames, and Kuribo reads him his last rites. After that, I want to mount his head on a pike as a warning to all future arrogant scum.

This point is worse than point 5, if that's even possible. Why in the sweet merciful fuck would I do this? Like anyone who actually reads this paragraph will recognize that it's preposterous, I don't even know why you bothered to write it or thought this would be convincing.

[Cephrir]

Point 6 is supposed to be referring to your 'popularity contest' argument isn't it?

tldr for the masses on that part of the wallfight. Bulba makes a needlessly inflammatory post towards Stevie, I ask sarcastically if he's trying to turn people against his, and he decides that I'm viewing the game as a popularity contest and am therefore scum

If you want more detail read the wallfight

[Cephrir]

people against him*

[Cephrir]

I refuse to believe it's town until I see the green lettering, which I don't think I will.

[Cephrir]

You put your fingers in your ears and went "La la la. I'm not listnening. La la la."

Everything you pointed to as evidence either didn't exist or was sufficiently explained

. And if you're town, you're a horrible scumhunter. Right up there with Serene.

I can't believe you're actually criticizing someone for ignoring sufficient explanations

Now I know you're just fucking with me

[Cephrir]

Me too

[Cephrir]

What really amazes me is that after the first seven shitty reactions tests in this thread and one pretty good one people are still falling for them

[Cephrir]

I mean, it's conceivable he saw through that one, but his reaction did seem pretty genuine

Just the action of posting a read list would not have been sufficient for me but the posts after it are pretty solid

[Cephrir]

and the fact that everybody dislikes the way I scumhunt (i.e. "he's being mean to scum").

Bulba

This is a prime example of why I thought you were scum

You've been told multiple times that no one ever accused you of this

And you JUST KEEP SAYING IT like that never happened

[Cephrir]

Especially when you said that popularity factored into being lynched.

there you go ignoring my entire rebuttal again

as I have literally said four times

I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT

[Cephrir]

Especially when you said that popularity factored into being lynched.

there you go ignoring my entire rebuttal again

as I have literally said four times

I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT

The more Bulba and DOMO go at it, the more I think Bulbafenix is town and DOMO scum.

Go buddy someone else.

Are you trying to make everyone want to lynch you? It's working.

I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be a popularity contest? I thought we were supposed to be finding scum, lynching scum, and contributing to a town win. If I am able to catch some scum and help town win, who cares how much I'm liked? Why should it matter? The only ones who would be worried about such things are scum, because they want to survive until endgame. Your whole outlook on this game comes from a scum mindset rather than a town mindset.

Yes, wanting to lynch someone is the same as disliking them.

Brilliant deduction, Sherlock.

Want to run that by me again?

-Bulba

"Are you trying to get lynched" does not equal "lynching is a popularity contest". And if you can't tell the last quote is sarcastic from "Brilliant deduction, Sherlock" then you may be beyond help.

[Cephrir]

I was inferring no such thing and your continual insistence that the last post was not sarcastic when it's impossible to sound any more sarcastic than it did it ridiculous

You really need to learn to admit when you're wrong, you seem to be pathologically incapable of giving up a single point

[Cephrir]

You were inferring that lynches were based on how well people liked you with "Are you trying to get lynched?"

if anyone other than bulba can tell me how this is not a massive leap of logic i will be astonished

[Cephrir]

I already argued you out of the second part

I'm done discussing this

[Cephrir]

Well, I can't say that guilty surprises me a great deal. And given how well it lines up with Ank's stated investigation philosophy, well, he's either the ballsiest scum on the face of the earth and it's multiball, or he's town.

I'll refrain from voting letters for the time being, but I may start analyzing under the assumption he's scum.

[Cephrir]

Meh, I'm pretty much the awkward posting champion, not sure why that surprises anyone.

Why is Metal Sonic's slot scum? I've seen him slipping down scumlists, but I don't really know why. I had a townread on him.

[Cephrir]

So Serene's third head is Shadi?

[Cephrir]

I was just making fun of you for complaining about the thread

Especially given that your slot is responsible for a lot of it

[Cephrir]

So sad to see Slandaar go. I really love playing with him especially when he's town, like in this game. I'm very unsettled by the loss of 3 VTs yesterday. This is really hurting us. We need to find some scum so that town has a chance. I think if we lynch TMT today, we can give ank more time to find more scum. I do agree with Slandaar's reads. I definitely think the Jon slot is scum and cephrir's posts today were super scummy too. If cop can confirm on either of those tonight, it would make tomorrow's lynch easy as well. Cabd I'm leaning scum. Rift and orc are town and also DOMO. So if we go according to DOMO's list, the remaining scum is in: BRO, shadi and stubbs. Sounds like we have a really good basis to start working on.

btw: Happy birthday, Shadi

[Cephrir]

Hey, I'm not absent, I posted yesterday.

P-edit: Serene you're gonna have to elaborate on that one if you want anyone to believe you.

[Cephrir]

Serene you're gonna have to elaborate on that one if you want anyone to believe you.

[Cephrir]

If you actually think we're going to lynch orcinus today over a guilty result especially given that you refuse to provide reasoning, you may actually be delusional

[Cephrir]

I suppose I did imply I wanted more time at one point but then I got lazy, I'll do that if I'm alive tomorrow, though I fully expect to be

That said I'm just gonna shut up and let this happen

[Cephrir]

@Serene, how come you're so much for orc as scum since page 159?

I've been wavering actually.

In Pikmin Mafia I recall having a much clearer town read on him than I do here. Everyone else read him as scum and I was among the few defending him being town.

This game is the opposite; everyone reads him as town and I do too, sometimes, but there are long stretches where I think he's scum. Until today, this was just gut.

He pretty much confessed scum a dozen times today.

Since apparently there isn't some super incredible secret going on here, then, I'd like to hear specifically about the first post of his that made you go off on this tangent. I see where you're coming from to some extent with everything since then, but I don't get how you suddenly decided orci was scum before going on this rampage.

[Cephrir]

Okay, as long as you've actually got something.

Feel free to end this day whenever, people.

[Cephrir]

On this particular day I don't see what's wrong with that

I'm just waiting for everyone to shut up so we can lynch the confscum and get on with it tomorrow

[Cephrir]

There's no scum motivation either, it's just plain ridiculous.

[Cephrir]

I see the argument, but I don't believe he could possibly actually expect dram to be vigged.

That's why I called it a towntell initially, because it was too absurd a suggestion for scum to make.

Given recent developments, however, I'm not as sure as I once was.

[Cephrir]

I don't agree with respect to the townbloc, I trust my reads over NK speculation any day (though I can imagine certain members thereof being scum), but you do have an argument.

[Cephrir]

Well. 4156 sure is a post.

I wanna hammer *chomps at bit*

[Cephrir]

SKs don't talk at night.

[Cephrir]

Whoever killed TIP was I think a high calibre player because they picked up on 1082

So yeah

As a low calibre player who picked up on this I disagree

I thought it was fairly obvious

shadi took EIGHT MINUTES to post his readlist in that stupid gambit on 143

how the fuck does that conftown him

cabd is not this retarded

Personally, I thought it was conceivable that Shadi could have noticed it was a gambit and run with it, but I thought the way in which he responded was very townie rather than the simple fact that he posted a list. At least, that's what I remember thinking.

Honestly though, that reaction test was incredibly shitty even by the standards of this thread (really, a vengekill? Who the fuck believes that?)

Thank you for getting unweird orci, I was starting to doubt. I am beginning to think there is scum in this town block, if it can even be called such with the mass paranoia it's having. I do have a suspicion as to the problem here.

[Cephrir]

As a low calibre player who picked up on this I disagree

i have no freaking clue how good you are

cabd apparently values your play highly, in one of the questions he asked me a few pages back

talk to me about this because this pings a little

A cursory look at meta should reveal that I am garbage as town (in the few games I don't get lynched I invariably am almost lynched and am wrong about nearly everything) and fairly good as scum. But I'm normally pretty oblivious to breadcrumbs regardless of alignment, so if I notice one I always feel that it is really shitty.

[Cephrir]

Amnesiac Mafia (recent)
Arbitrary ancient game

[Cephrir]

Since TMT is claiming scum by not posting expect a post in that direction once I get off work in a couple hours.

[Cephrir]

Please votecount

Nulls:
Orc (not enough posts yet)
Everyone Else because it’s like page 6 and several people only have RVS posts.

Lol... Orc and everyone else? That was a weird way to phrase it.

never mind, ninja'd by mac.

As orci pointed out, never mentions Crabd again. Never interacts with orci, but orci probably wouldn't speculate this way re: distancing if they were scum together.

PE: omfg people, STOP with the crap filler posts. We're in the middle of page 6 in a 24 player game sevenish hours old. Unless you ACTUALLY WANT mass flaking, stop posting unless you have something real to say for chrissake

Wadup

No but seriously dude calm down, if it's filler then skip it.

No. Fillering makes it harder to pick out scum posts.

7 pages is hhard

hahahahhahahaha


have you tried reading 30

Feel like contributing anytime soon?

Both of these addresses could be "hey scumbuddy, play better".

Alright, so you all think I'm Town. That's good. I think we should lynch Stevie.
VOTE: Stevie
Whoever doesn't vote Stevie is either scum or a tree stump

Stevie is town, he acts with consistency, and I'm pretty sure there is scum on his wagon right now

Remind me to look at who this is referring to.

Tough to see a lot through all the bickering...TSO and Metal Sonic in particular.

Initial read stands.

vote Stevie.

Hops on a person that people continue to push for bad reasons, easy target

What...

...in the actual fuck?

Expresses "surprise" towards a joke
Does not further comment on his vote

VOTE: The Goat

Letters' contribution to this game insofar as it can even be called that is limited to attacking The Goat, basically. But at this point at least, it's pretty clearly not going anywhere. I'm a little biased towards thinking this is bussing, I'll admit, because I'm lightly scumreading Goat's replacement.

I'm actually voting Dramonic, not Serene.

Now do I think Serene is scum? A 2-headed hydra is difficult enough for me to read. Now there's 3-headed hydras?
Well based on one of the sane head's posts, I'm leaning town. But the insane head's so annoying I just want to vote to be done with it.

None of these are actual scumreads.

Stubbs probably isn't scum with Letters.

vote: Stevie

I'd prefer that you try to behave a lot more pro-town. Thanks in advance.

This is massively mitigated

Again, wimpy attacks on The Goat that are unlikely to go anywhere. This is looking like a halfhearted bus to me, but to be fair everything this guy *did* was halfhearted, so perhaps I should stop trying to read into that.

It means to try to make what your saying less offensive or boat rocking.
I've no idea if this actually constitutes a read, just noticing that it's not the normal way other people post.

What is your read on Goat at the moment?

Regarding the meta on Calcifer, both heads, is it possible it could change due to them playing together?

That's mostly what she was talking about. What do you think of her conclusions?

I don't understand what your motivation is for pointing these out, if Serene is mason claim

Do you think Serene is confirmed town from the mason claim? If so, there's clear scum motivation with the possibility of confused town. Which do you think it is?

1. I have yet to have anyone answer my question- Is mitigation an action that is normally counted as a scum action?

2. People say both heads of you are aggressive heads, so the expectation that the other head would play aggressively might cause you to.
3. Could you give me links of scum claiming mason that succeeded? From what I gather, it's not a conventional path to take.

And when confronted to actually give a solid read on The Goat (and the fact that Calcifer is bringing him up implies to me that I've probably reached the part of the game at which Goat becomes a legitimate suspect), he completely ignores the question. We probably should have lynched TMT on the spot for ignoring a question about what appears to be his only scum read.

TMTOLBTWNTOF probably will stay unvoting because scum likes to do that.

Check out my games.

Does at least 1 of your heads thinks Calcifer is scum?


VOTE: Koopa

This is not how one votes for a scumbuddy. Koopa is not in this mafia.

That wasn't terribly enlightening. Time to trawl everyone else's posts, which I imagine will be more useful, even though they aren't likely to mention him much except as a position on a scumlist.

[Cephrir]

Actually, I think it's a stretch to say this iso looks particularly good for RA. TMT does interact with them several times, but his reaction is always to ask one of his trademark utterly useless questions, or to address something really insignificant.

[Cephrir]

(that's in response to orci saying it *did* look good for RA, I'm not implying it looks bad)

[Cephrir]

I thought I answered it, but maybe there's more to it I'm not getting

[Cephrir]

Mostly unrelatedly, I just reskimmed Brian Hollywood, and he's scum.

[Cephrir]

Letters being gone for so long makes me want to scumread the slot

Pretty craptacular reason.

Also I don't like any of letters' posts but for reasons involving games in progress I highly doubt my ability to read him.

Please let us know when this is a thing. Unfortunately this sort of blanket scumread turns out to be typical of everyone in this thread.

I also don't like his reasoning for pushing TMT... I have my doubts about TMT, but this goat fellow is certainly someone who deserves scrutiny, I mean he has 3 posts yet has an important vote down... zdenek calling TMT scummy for pointing this out is questionable.

I believe I recall not liking this even before we knew TMT was scum.

You quoted his post where he points the finger at goat, who has 3 posts and an important vote on stevie. Forgive me for assuming this was your reason for calling him scum. Yes I have doubts about TMT, I have doubts about stevie too, but neither are reads I have a huge amount of confidence in. I think TMT is right to consider goat sketchy, so you pointing your finger at TMT for a post that I actually agreed with pinged, more so than your attack at me tbh.

Stevie still looks scummy to me. I don't see why goat needed to comment more at that moment. Why do you think that he did?

You don't see why goat needed to comment more? Is this serious? He has 3 posts, I'd like to see him comment more on a lot more things than this. Why do I think goat made the comments he did? I dunno, I can speculate, like maybe he's town and thinks stevie is scum, or maybe he's scum and wants to ML stevie, or maybe even bussing... it's pretty difficult to get a read on goat based on 3 posts. Seeing as I'm not really sure about stevie, this makes it harder for me to figure out his motives.

Why do you think TMT voted for goat? Do you not think goat is worth of scrutiny?

But we know why he voted for goat, he just said so? Also, I think I hear the thrumming of the world's smallest chainsaw.

Oh look Calciscum is trying to make KingCrabd do his dirty work.

I don't know who you are, but you're making it very difficult for me to find scum, so if you could stop antitown stuff, that would be great. Work with me here, not against me.

I'd recommend ignoring him. Why is TMT staying in your lynchpool?

Because a deeper probe showed that as town he usually makes it to LYLO. So the only reason I had to take him out (that he seemed to be mislynched) was actually wrong, because skimming just had me reading day ones, not checking the ends of threads too. He usually gets ALMOST lynched as town, then scum leaves him alive to LYLO.

You said earlier he gets mislynched often... so he gets mislynched often in lylo, I guess? Did you read the thread until you saw him almost getting lynched, and therefore think he was? Why not refer to the first post? I don't understand this.

VOTE: Calcifcer

I'd vote randomletters too though

This is his only mention. It is metal sonic though, not sure we can actually expect progressions from him.

i don't really have a read on TMT because it's quite possible he just sucks and i'm not good at reading those kinds of players

Didn't you later scumread him? If you did, I lost the quote, so perhaps not.

Town: Calcifer, Steve, TMT, Nero, TIP, truly14(and his replacement), Brian Hollywood

How

What

I don't even

So Calcifer is unlynchable? That works, too.

VOTE: TMTOLBTWNTOF

I cannot conceive of anyone objecting to this righteous lynch.

We can't lynch all the scum on day 1. We have to pick one. Why it TMT a better lynch than bulba?

Doing the same thing metal sonic and orci (lost the quote on that one) did, so I guess there's nothing wrong with it?

For someone who cares about read progression (IIRC) you don't really have one yourself.

TMTOLBTWNTOF: Haven't been paying much attention to this guy I think. Can't remember anything he said.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. I looked at your ISO, and that's what I got out of. Now, I'm checking to see if you have anything else you want to add or if I missed something. I ask because if this is correct then I really don't understand your null reads on TMTOLBTWNTOF and Brian Hollywood and your town read on The Goat, since they've also not provided content. The fact that you don't have a read on BulbaF seems odd to me, since you're scum reading Ank for reading the mason's differently, and BulbaFenix's reads on the masons seems incredibly contrived.

You look at my ISO and assume a bunch of things. That's not putting words in my mouth?

I gave you a list and reads on them as far as I remembered. I did not look up anything before writing them down.

Let's see:

Ankamius has pinged me a few times, but I can't really remember what he did.
Baby Spice did some weird voting and displayed some really weird behaviour on day 1.
Stevie well I don't think I need to explain that one.
Thirdkoopa: The "I'm not rolefishing, but who are you talking about" post was exceptionally bad. Because people already pointed it out, I didn't see the need to repeat that.

TMT: can't remember anything he posted. How can I read him other than null? I've been wondering why people are scumreading him, but haven't put in effort to find out why.

Brian Hollywood: same thing.
The Goat: I remember him saying he was townier than Serene. I could not agree more. Maybe I just really liked that post to just want him around. The Doctor on fire thing was golden.
BulbaFenix: One head says yes, the other no. I have to admit I may have skipped some of his posts.

Maybe I should put some effort in reading through some of these guys. But after catching up 20 pages, I did not feel like it. Basically since the whole Serene/Nero theatre, I kind of lost interest and I have a hard time getting back into it. It feels like I'm not really a part of this game, just spectating. That's probably the reason why I'm lacking strong scumreads.

This is not scum with letters

stevie:

Scum suspect #2 is BROseidan for making a town read on page 2.

can you tell me how this is scummy and how this doesn't work in reverse?

Because in the beginning of the game a good town is supposed to be suspicious of everyone. It should take more than 2 pages of fluff/RVS for you to determine that someone is a townie.

Scumhunting, on the other hand, is always encouraged.

this is a terrible post. at the beginning of the game, good town can also get reads from early posts. the fact that you are trying to discourage this in such a way is pretty anti-town.

like Rift (??) said, scumhunting and townhunting work in unison together, and make for an easier life.

there was something else that caught my eye on a brief skin of the 8 pages:

Nulls:
Orc (not enough posts yet)
Everyone Else because it’s like page 6 and several people only have RVS posts.

Krab person (cabd?) - why did you feel the need to seperate orc for not having enough posts from everyone else who don't have enough posts? I found this kinda bizarre behaviour.

ProHawk is town, despite how stupid his idea was.
TiP, BROseidon, and Stevie are all scum.

I have Zdenek, BRO, Prohawk, TiP, and maybe Stevie as town.

Wait... so one of you has Stevie as scum and one of you as town? Could you please sign?

why did you pick out Stevie here and not BRO? both in differing piles from Calcifier. also this post does nothing. as have the rest of your other two posts, letters chap.

vote TMT

TMT and possibly stevie for scum at the moment.

For reasons that escape me people kept referring to this as a 'case' early in the thread when it really isn't one. I would give Mac townpoints for this (I think he's Serene now so it's a moot point?) except for ongoinggamereasons.

Strong Town Reads:
Rift Adrift
zdenek

Leaning Town:
TMTOLBTWNTOF
Serene
BulbaFenix

Leaning Scum:
BROseidon
DOMO

Strong Scum Reads:
StevieT92

This is after letters is voting him, and it's not a fantastic vote, plus he hasn't done anything else. It's really odd that TMT is even on this list. He only bothered ranking 8 players, and they're basically the most prolific posters and some random ass lurker who suspects you? Even if they're not together, this is scummy (artifical town read on someone who suspects him to avoid being accused of OMGUS)

[Cephrir]

Didn't bother with Ank & BS for obvious reasons.

Most of those I didn't quote had little to no interaction with TMT at any point unless they were referring to him as something other than "tmt" or "letters".

[Cephrir]

@Cephrir

There are about 800 posts between the first quote and the second one you pulled for me. In that period (and beyond) both TMT and Brian Hollywood lurked the shit out of the thread for the most part and contributed nothing to move the game forward, as several other players had commented. I don't usually post obvious shit for the sake of being obvious.

I like to evaluate based on posts rather than lack thereof, but alright, to each their own.

[Cephrir]

Back in? I haven't liked a single post he's made.

[Cephrir]

Well, that's disappointing. Bahgoscum.

[Cephrir]

The rest of the Dead QT complained about it but I thought coming into the game and getting BS lynched was an awesome play by AP. We were not winning with that ludicrous role in the game.

[Cephrir]

Oh. Well, still, it was necessary.

[Cephrir]

For all he knew, you could have had the Dead QT. The mod couldn't have been completely sure, either.

[Cephrir]

Okay, now that NY 164 has finally ended, I can reveal what was fully going on. Cephrir and I were scum in that game, so I actually recognized immediately that his play didn't necessarily make him town. However, I couldn't say anything, lest I compromise the other game. And when I said that he was daring town to come after him? Yeah, again that was mostly me. Cephrir and I were pretty much playing multi-game mental chess, where we were both trying to outwit the other, yet we couldn't be open about it. And I'll admit, Cephrir used it to his advantage, knowing that I had information that would truly condemn him as scum, yet I could never fully disclose it, or I would disqualify myself from both games and would likely be banned. It was a complicated mind game, and I both hated it and loved it at the same time, simply because while frustrating, it was also invigorating to go against such an opponent. Well played Cephrir.

Hehehe

Love you too Bulba ^.^