NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)
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Generic Mafia Scum
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im only teasing ya bro, you know I like to look to you for your opinions because when you are town you have a lot to offer us... I have just struggled to feel the town desp vibes in this.
You seem to have this knack of being incredibly passive and uninvolved and yet drop the occasional spark of town desp... im still trying to determine if that's you trying to present town desp or you ACTUALLY being town desp,
But I digress. I actually like the vote on SSK but every time I go near it people seem to get all 'this is a bad wagon, we could be killing the town doc'... im trying to actually stay involved and not go apathetic (the full arsehole if you like) but im losing touch with this game through wishy washy limp wristed cases.
DOMO had a bit of fucking bite when I called him a moron but has become so weak willed over everything ever since I am struggling to take on board any point he makes.
SAD looked like a decent wagon at one time but he floods the game with whining walls and everyone seems to back off him.
WHAT THE FUCK IS THE BEST OPTION?
Even the casso wagon creates a series of posts from them sapping my energy with the '5 whys' to every point made and a few people who want to call them scum but then start the 'but what if' line of thought that leaves even more doubt in my mind on pushing a hydra consisting of supposedly two of mafiascums elite.
So desp, my mafiascum nemesis, PLEASE be town and tell me where I should focus my energy on the read back now, SAD? or should we roll the dice here and go for SSK and fuck the consequences?
Believe it or not im in a good mood, but im up for a good fight if we need to put pressure on someone, I will force nacho into one even though he has been hiding from me all game... YOU HEAR THAT NACHO, I THINK YOU ARE CHICKEN!-
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Generic Mafia Scum
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In post 4638, DOMO wrote:
So you actually prefer it if I have bite? I wound my neck in somewhat because I don't actually like pissing people off. Why did you threaten to quit if you liked my attitude?In post 4637, Generic wrote:DOMO had a bit of fucking bite when I called him a moron but has become so weak willed over everything ever since I am struggling to take on board any point he makes.
im a complicated man DOMO, and my threat was more to do with my loss of control than your ability to make a stance and fight the fuck for it.
Lets me and you call the truce for this day phase, and discuss best lynch options. I am trying eith desp, but at least with you I have greater confidence in you being actually town.
Casso is one of yours and I think you had a great point when you said the votes came in for SSK at a convenient time... lets start there and move through SAD and SSK too shall we?-
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Generic Mafia Scum
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In post 4643, DOMO wrote:
Fair enough. And yeah I'm totally willing to truce, I do not think you're scum at this stage; for you to be scum you're very good at faking lack of emotional control.In post 4641, Generic wrote:im a complicated man DOMO, and my threat was more to do with my loss of control than your ability to make a stance and fight the fuck for it.
I just had a thought about SSK - if he's scum doc, would he claim town doc? I'm thinking scum RB'er would do well to claim town doc, because if he's tracked, he can explain why he visited a strong towny type player, rather than a scummy type player.
As for SAD, he makes me nervous, but that's largely because he owned me to shit at lylo in our other game. I'm always gonna have a hard time towning SAD. I can happily see him die because he's so fucking dangerous as scum. I'm not sure I've seen him as town before.
I see what you are getting at but there has been a lot of talk about the use of scum doc indicating a gunsmith. It's a very ballsy play but for him to claim town doc as sc doc could be to draw a gunsmith check.
But if he wasn't well versed on mechanics and setup he could be a non doc scum player inviting a counter claim. I've seen it before, but thankfully no counterclaim came.
He could also be town but I think we are dealing with an inexperienced scum team (or a reckless bunch) to not take the optimal play and take him out in the night. I don't see value in wifom on a guy who is known for being scummy looking even as town and also then trying to second guess his night action.
But then maybe that's why tammy was the target, it did seem a little left field even if she was pretty pro town (take into account that she and f16 were the early debate for one being scum, eliminating her is very obvious if trying to frame f16, and if f16 is scum why would he sign off on removing his safety net for doubt?)
I want to lynch SSK because I don't believe he is town, but the more I think on it the more I talk myself out if it, hence my aggressive jump on to try not to let doubt set in. I'm a big boy, I can accept a fuck up if he is town but I can't see it.
Pedit: desp, this can also bring you in, your thoughts on my SSK musings here.-
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Generic Mafia Scum
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Generic Mafia Scum
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I think you nailed my current thought process there DOMO, but your second group has two guys who I really am struggling to read one way or the other. Cephrir and Pieguyn have both seemed town recently. I would look at putting SAD in with the first three and working with them for the time being. For a 5th I wouldn't completely rule out koreanBBQ for an outside bet either, and muffinman I simply don't understand at the moment do have kind of ignored what he's doing.-
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Generic Mafia Scum
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Also DOMO, you need to get the geists paranoia out of your head.
In a game this size what are the chances you hit the only role you feasibly will read a scum player as town with?
PoE alone says that's not even worth discussion until later in the game. And if SSK is town doc then you are unlikely to be there for that chat, as he can't las forever either from a lung or a night kill.
So we are saying SSK is off the table for today, I'm okay with that although a part of me wants him dead to stop the wifom that surrounds him.
So the push is for casso based on reactions when his wagon reached a high level? I need more if I'm gonna push to take out one of the stronger players in the game. I want to see scum play, and so am going to look at the cases presented.
Desp, what's your opinion of a casso lynch?-
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Generic Mafia Scum
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Well I get what you are saying with regards to having your voice now. What I'm saying is have faith in us to also take that in. Geists survival will be spun with wifom like he SSK thing is, but I for one if I can get that far won't let them snake out of it (I had them pegged as scum day 1 after all) .In post 4694, DOMO wrote:It's weird that you don't acknowledge that three scum flips and no scum doc flip means that the clear on you is less reliable. If there's only the scum doc to find then it's obvious that my clear cannot be relied upon; it's still pretty unreliable with two left.
That reaction plus your lack of casso support has me paranoid I checked out the scum doc.
ffery, why do you suppose casso's wagon collapsed in favour of a claimed doc? Does SSK not look like a preferable lynch for scum than casso does?
pedit - generic, the chances of me actually checking out scum doc on n1 is 1 in 20, but that increases alarmingly the longer geists is left alive with no scum doc flip, and geists is using my paranoia and a former scum game of mine to move me away from that line of thinking. It almost makes me think that geists anticipates a situation where she is still alive and no scum doc has yet been killed.
I won't be around then.PoE alone says that's not even worth discussion until later in the game.
Right now though we aren't lynching them are we? And since SSK has already expressed a link to them by claiming them as the protection target then expressing still some doubts about them today doesn't sit right... But again they aren't a lynch option, PoE says they are more town than quite a few others at present.
What do you make of SAD in this equation btw? Cephrir makes the point not to put associative tells in until we have a confirmed flip, which I understand, but I like to consider a grouping for scum and work off the one who seems to have most links feeding in as in general they will be the best lynch and give us breadcrumbs for a few other lynches.
Wih that I need to get some focus. Vote will come later.-
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Generic Mafia Scum
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Only issue here is who are the scum that are bussing SSK.
sorry to complicate things further but since we are talking about it why wouldn't a potential SSK lynch be better if scum did leave the town doc alone for us to lynch through paranoia?
The timing is the part that makes the casso link, but if the scum team saw an opening to force the wifom plan through on SSK it would make Casso either alignment.
But out of the three bert is the one that gives us least information... so it has to be casso or SSK to gain the most value from the flip.
or am I missing something?-
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Generic Mafia Scum
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Generic Mafia Scum
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Generic Mafia Scum
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Give me a chance to run over your Iso and I shall bring some of your posts and reads to discuss, a bit busy right now to afford the time to it.In post 4720, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Generic, I haven't been hiding for a moment this game; my thought processes are out in the open and if you need a point to engage me on, engage me on my reads. Which ones do you disagree with?-
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Generic Mafia Scum
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In post 4410, Casso the King of Seals wrote:TOWN ANGELS:
Geists - Gunsmith innocent is a pretty solid reason, but even if you don't buy that, there's an extraordinarily transparent and incredibly hard to fake thought process going from the start of the game to now. Her attack on me for my early focus and strange focus on Brian definitely seemed like too "creative" an angle to take if she was trying to sort me out as scum; I would expect the fallback attack for Nacho paranoia from ffery-scum would end up looking something like "you're reading me wrong" or "you're not sorting me". I thought the harsh blowback against F-16 for his initial read of geists was very, very townish; ffery-scum's first reaction to a townread she isn't expecting is "holy shit, how is this happening"; I have trouble seeing her evolve from this to attacking people townreading her for weak reasons so quickly. Later in the game, the way she approaches not having many strong scumreads is very genuine, reaction to pieguyn initial vote on me after Sakura stuff is kneejerk and very town, a few exchanges with scumreads such as Desperado are very town. A hydra primarily guided by ffery having 500 posts on Day 2 is also a great sign.
Goodmorning/Maraca - I will admit that Cabd attaching to a weak player and claiming masons with them when they would be lynched any other way is something that gives me paranoid fits at times, but I'm still very satisfied with both slots being town on an individual basis before even considering the mason claim (although goodmorning not as town as Maraca, obviously). Goodmorning's townpoints are mostly for so consistently going after impossible targets (me, Muffin) that won't be getting lynched for a very very long time. If she really were scum, she could be a hell of a lot opportunistic than she's been but instead she's been playing with the big boys. Meanwhile, Mara has had some town as hell moments: her frustration seems more genuine than it did the last game I played scum with her.
F-16 - I thought the initial deal with me was pretty townish; there's no good reason for F-16 to promise not to kill me immediately in a game like this as scum, but convincing Nacho-scum to leave him alive makes sense for F-16 town. His paranoia about the deal later in the game (when he expressed plenty of regret, mentions making a "deal with the devil") also seem like unlikely F-16 scum things to do, and showing flashes of paranoia around me in spite of the deal (thus opening the door for me to have paranoia flashes about him) seem like something he would avoid doing as scum, considering it throws all benefit he got from the deal in the first place out of the window. His reasoning for townreading ffery early on was pretty solid (attacking me), his efforts to sort me out through ffery's read on me is wonderfully town, etc. etc. Series of posts starting at 3608 are the more in depth towncase, don't feel any less confident about this read now than I did then.
Sakura Hana - I won't talk about her play before my big push on her since I think everything she posted there is fakeable from Sakura-scum, if not outright scummy. But, I thought that the way she responded to getting wagonned (namely the whole "I have no respect for any of you after this", "what a fitting end; hurry up and lynch me so I never come back to MS again" bits) was town as hell for blacklist tell reasons (explained 3718). I can see her being frustrated at being lynched for no reason as scum, sure, but I can't see it turning into what it ended up evolving into when Sakura was speedwagonned. I thought the exchange we had over Sakura's townread on Cabd "maybe I had reasons, maybe I didn't" to "yeah, it was reaction test" made Sakura look fairly genuine, and the vote she currently has down actually seems like a pretty solid vote.
KoreanBBQ - I generally liked what GiF was doing early, followed him fairly easily. Early comment on him from QT is:
I think if you were attempting to put a vote on someone that isn't goodmorning for "not doing stuff", you have better candidates. GiF made an early exchange in reading ffery (#217), which has a few meta implications (both move awkwardly around each other when finding things that they don't like in the other, GiF is more suspicious of ffery than the rest of the meta crew but usually can't pick out what specific posts would bother town-him as scum. Ffery is less suspicious of GiF than the rest of the meta crew, but usually townreads him too easily as scum). GiF also talked of a conditional scumread on Stuffed Crust based on who was posting; there was an assumption that it was mostly Varsoon talking but GiF refuted that and pointed out that his play was gross for town-Varsoon. There was an attack on pieguyn earlier where he attacked him for being awkward around Sakura (another meta entanglement), he's generally making pushes now and playing fine. I thought that his "I'm satisfied with my posting this game and I never say that" statement was pretty genuine, as was his explanation of his total play in #2340. Nero is more active and involved than I remember him early game in Marketplace (and a few of his votes like YES I CAN FINALLY VOTE HANA seem like genuine Nerotown, as does his exchange with Mara for her late townreading him), GiF-Nacho sync was pretty cool and also unlikely to be coming from GiF-scum unless he's gotten amazing at predicting momentum ahead of time. Crowning move of towniness was #3743, which, if coming from scum, would require GiF to fight for a mislynch for a majority of the game, be in the perfect position to seize it, and then instead throw his hands up and go "fuck it". I can see where his frustration as town is coming from, and I thought giving the readslist as if he expected to get lynched afterwards and the "fuck you" comment about people not being able to say that he's not doing anything anymore is consistent with his #2340 and pretty genuinely town. I agree with ffery about Christmas miracles, and in response to Xenologue Cabd I will say this: GiF's read on the slot was primarily based on Mac, which he was decently loud about. He also didn't start pushing the slot with conviction until very, very late, which also made it seem genuine to me.
DOMO - Gunsmith claim, will sort himself out. A couple of paranoid flashes look pretty town, and claim this early with nothing relevant would be suicide for DOMO-scum down the road when he could be someone who could go deep, regardless of partners.
Bert - I think that his pieces of concern with me (wondering why I'm criticizing someone who mostly goes after lurkers based on Chosen Mafia, Hard Boiled, coming up with Nacho/ffery scumteam guesses, the "Nacho should be more charismatic and more widely townread by now" theory, then later paranoia push on geists based on gut... all of it seems like he's dealing with a variety of possibilities very quickly, and dealing with genuine paranoia; I haven't seen a Bert scumgame where he's so seamlessly went from player to player to player to player. His aggressiveness in making me see Sakura-town and embrace of the "blacklist tell" reminds me of Shoe in Wingate. He comes across as so much more genuine in his scumgames elsewhere, despite this being a large game that's pretty ridiculous and hard to keep up with.
Getting tired, but this is the townblock for now. I haven't read through Generic/Cephrir/Pie yet and I'm sure at least one of these three will make their way into the townblock. I feel very confident about this group, though (my weakest read is Bert, which should say something in and of itself).In post 4416, Casso the King of Seals wrote:TOWN ANGELS:
Pieguyn - A couple observations I have from the scumgames that I skimmed is that pie :effort: level here is very impressive compared to his :effort: level elsewhere, and his pushes on players here seem much more thorough than they did in any of his other scumgames. Early townread on goodmorning is a bit strange (as in I don't see the basis of it whatsoever), especially since it's one of the pie's top tier townreads; he didn't have any weird townreads like this in Marketplace. I agree with him that the strong tilt against our slot is something unlikely to come from Pieguyn-scum, and his theories of various scumteams sometimes get a little conspiracy theory but they seem very genuine (see: Casso-Cephrir team based on timing, Casso-Sakura team based on D1 and how he got people to talk about the Casso-Sakura possibility after he thought of it); they all seem like unlikely angles for scumpieguyn to push so fervently, especially when he hasn't demonstrated the ability to fervently push easier targets in the past. I also like a lot of his "I expect you would pick on on this" language, seems fairly genuine. The big thing is how absolutely out of his mind he would have to be playing in order to be scum right now, which is why I'm upgrading him at the moment.
ANGELS IN WAITING:
Cephrir - I find the strongest reasoning for him being town his vote on me after he misinterpreted a joke from me as calling him scum; I'm sure scumRir knows that he would be expected to manufacture an attack on me whenever I call him scum, but it was so quick and kneejerk and natural (he didn't even attempt to clarify whether I was actually suspecting him or not) that I have trouble seeing him pulling it off as scum. A couple of his sentiments also come off as really really genuine based on his perception of his town play "to be honest, it's probably a towntell to suspect me right now", "Nacho, I know you're good at reading me but there are others here who are good at reading me who are scumreading me". I liked his reading of DOMO early, and I generally liked his response to being wagonned (voting me for being aggressive, probably town + post before V/LA). He does have the scumrir tone when talking to or about SC, but he lacks it everywhere else so that's a good sign.
Generic - What I like most about Generic is how all over the place he's been this game; I agree with people who have pointed out that he seems more helpful, more "pro-town" as scum. #452 is an example of him being more of a loose cannon (taking a break because being mad at Mara pretty much immediately), as is his exchange with me over how he's treating Mara ("oh, are you trying to get me to tunnel her?") and his rant about people making him explain things early and ruining everything that he's attempting to do in the game. I liked his response to me when he did form his townread on Mara; he was extremely smug about it and had a whole "this is how it's done" air about him which reminds me strongly of his towngame (one of the things that pulled me off him eventually in We the Purple is how damn smug he sounded). I also thought that the series of posts where he says he's trying to be less emotive this game to fight with DOMO later was pretty damn town; he gave the excuses for why he wouldn't be as fiery as his usual town game and then commenced being as fiery as his usual towngame. I also thought that choosing to make his big push on the PR type gives him town brownie points; more likely Generic would spot the softclaiming and kill it during the night as opposed to make a full charge at it.
I feel much more comfortable upgrading pieguyn than I do the other two simply because pie's scumgame has a much smaller range than the other two have, and I simply can't see pie going from two games where generally he got scared to drive his pushes through pretty quickly and never came close to hitting the genuine notes he's hitting here to his play in this game. Even based on his push on Sakura alone here compared to Touhou uPick is town town town.In post 4431, Casso the King of Seals wrote:CAST DOWN FROM HEAVEN (FURY OF FLING FROM STRONGEST TO WEAKEST):
Desperado - I liked Desperado's entrance because it was so solidly "I don't give a fuck, what's up guys". His early pushes felt more fluid and less loud and confident like his normal scum pushes. I didn't like his attack on Varsoon for "false dichotomies" because Varsoon does that as town as Desperado saw. I thought his push on Maraca was fine, and his push on Sakura was good (until recently when he continued pushing Sakura after the meltdown bit and didn't engage anyone on why opinions so radically changed). Geists scumread is also weird although it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a Desperado-scum fakeread, and the "oh I'm not pushing you today even though I have you as a scumread because you're not getting lynched" bit is weird, considering he's made no attempt to sell anyone on any of his non-consensus scumreads. Not at all hitting the level I expect Desperado-town to hit.
Ser Arthur Dayne - Initial read on Tammy is kind of weird (Tammy is highly town unless she can emulate her usual town aggressiveness): SAD hasn't played with Tammy for a while, sure, but I'm fairly sure he played with her on Westeros longer than anyone else in the game, so the bit of paranoia that she could fake what she showed here seemed disingenuous. His push on pie is weird and not really representative of what pie was doing (and I don't like his backtrack when he goes from "pie is doing zero scumhunting" to "his scumreads are fake/he's tunneling"). Him pushing pie pretty strongly and going "meh, can't get a read on you" was strange but probably not alignment indicative, and his later pushes on Muffin/us where he votes us then doesn't comment on the vote at all both feel weird (I think I read something about him explaining the reasons he did this somewhere). I'm still weirded about by his defense of SSK on the basis of being not good information; I like that he was so honest about the associative tell thing (yeah, it was a lie all along), but I'm not really sure what he was supposed to defend himself with as scum and that honestly doesn't look so great when his initial reaction was to lie about it, which would be for SAD-town. His switch on SSK also seems like an odd position to take; he doesn't seem to be getting boxed in by POE and I don't follow his case on SSK today, so the newfound scumread on him seems opportunistic. I like his snark, and I'm inclined to believe him when he says he wouldn't kill Tammy because he joined this game to play for her, but it's not enough for a townread.
Muffin - My main concern with Muffin at this point is that there's nothing in his posts I can point to and strongly declare him town because of it. His attack on me is mostly a response to my attack on him, and has a few genuine-sounding notes that are pretty fakeable for Muffin-scum. He felt a lot more aggressive dismissing me for my read on him than he does now which could be an effect of scumMuffin running out of angles or townMuffin not feeling as strongly about things as he did before. I liked Muffin's question to geists about their townread on me (is it because of how he sorted you?) because a large component of ffery townread on me in Marketplace was my sorting her, and I like the stronger than consensus townread on BRO since it's Muffin shutting down a mislynch option when I'm guessing mislynch options are fairly sparse. In the end, I need more content and I need town leader Muffin over the Muffin that we see here.
Norlkaz (but mostly Brian Skies) - I am completely null on Llamarble, and I've sort of resigned myself to being null on him for a while. Brian Skies did not post enough in order to get any sort of solid read on; there were a couple good-sounding moments earlier in his ISO, but nothing I have any sort of faith in.
BRO - This game feels very, very different from the two games where we were scumbuddies. I agree with general statements that he hasn't dedicated as much time as in scum games to looking town, and the early push on ffery for not seeing what he expected her to seems like a nice early attack on a power player to early attack on me. A lot of his talk relies on other players and based on feelings in other games, and the majority of his pushes lack the low fruit strikes that seemed rampant in his other scumgames (for example, calling goodmorning town for town lurk early closed that option off early when it was something I expected BRO to go for as scum). Concerning bits are mostly based on BRO not hitting the "unfakeable factor" that a lot of players have seem to hit or come close to hitting, lacking something strong that I can point to and declare "yes, this is town", and having a good scumgame with a pretty impressive range. BRO would probably be a decent townread in a more normal game.
SSK read is a special case, not something to be dealt with today.In post 4410, Casso the King of Seals wrote:TOWN ANGELS:
Geists - Gunsmith innocent is a pretty solid reason, but even if you don't buy that, there's an extraordinarily transparent and incredibly hard to fake thought process going from the start of the game to now. Her attack on me for my early focus and strange focus on Brian definitely seemed like too "creative" an angle to take if she was trying to sort me out as scum; I would expect the fallback attack for Nacho paranoia from ffery-scum would end up looking something like "you're reading me wrong" or "you're not sorting me". I thought the harsh blowback against F-16 for his initial read of geists was very, very townish; ffery-scum's first reaction to a townread she isn't expecting is "holy shit, how is this happening"; I have trouble seeing her evolve from this to attacking people townreading her for weak reasons so quickly. Later in the game, the way she approaches not having many strong scumreads is very genuine, reaction to pieguyn initial vote on me after Sakura stuff is kneejerk and very town, a few exchanges with scumreads such as Desperado are very town. A hydra primarily guided by ffery having 500 posts on Day 2 is also a great sign.
Goodmorning/Maraca - I will admit that Cabd attaching to a weak player and claiming masons with them when they would be lynched any other way is something that gives me paranoid fits at times, but I'm still very satisfied with both slots being town on an individual basis before even considering the mason claim (although goodmorning not as town as Maraca, obviously). Goodmorning's townpoints are mostly for so consistently going after impossible targets (me, Muffin) that won't be getting lynched for a very very long time. If she really were scum, she could be a hell of a lot opportunistic than she's been but instead she's been playing with the big boys. Meanwhile, Mara has had some town as hell moments: her frustration seems more genuine than it did the last game I played scum with her.
F-16 - I thought the initial deal with me was pretty townish; there's no good reason for F-16 to promise not to kill me immediately in a game like this as scum, but convincing Nacho-scum to leave him alive makes sense for F-16 town. His paranoia about the deal later in the game (when he expressed plenty of regret, mentions making a "deal with the devil") also seem like unlikely F-16 scum things to do, and showing flashes of paranoia around me in spite of the deal (thus opening the door for me to have paranoia flashes about him) seem like something he would avoid doing as scum, considering it throws all benefit he got from the deal in the first place out of the window. His reasoning for townreading ffery early on was pretty solid (attacking me), his efforts to sort me out through ffery's read on me is wonderfully town, etc. etc. Series of posts starting at 3608 are the more in depth towncase, don't feel any less confident about this read now than I did then.
Sakura Hana - I won't talk about her play before my big push on her since I think everything she posted there is fakeable from Sakura-scum, if not outright scummy. But, I thought that the way she responded to getting wagonned (namely the whole "I have no respect for any of you after this", "what a fitting end; hurry up and lynch me so I never come back to MS again" bits) was town as hell for blacklist tell reasons (explained 3718). I can see her being frustrated at being lynched for no reason as scum, sure, but I can't see it turning into what it ended up evolving into when Sakura was speedwagonned. I thought the exchange we had over Sakura's townread on Cabd "maybe I had reasons, maybe I didn't" to "yeah, it was reaction test" made Sakura look fairly genuine, and the vote she currently has down actually seems like a pretty solid vote.
KoreanBBQ - I generally liked what GiF was doing early, followed him fairly easily. Early comment on him from QT is:
I think if you were attempting to put a vote on someone that isn't goodmorning for "not doing stuff", you have better candidates. GiF made an early exchange in reading ffery (#217), which has a few meta implications (both move awkwardly around each other when finding things that they don't like in the other, GiF is more suspicious of ffery than the rest of the meta crew but usually can't pick out what specific posts would bother town-him as scum. Ffery is less suspicious of GiF than the rest of the meta crew, but usually townreads him too easily as scum). GiF also talked of a conditional scumread on Stuffed Crust based on who was posting; there was an assumption that it was mostly Varsoon talking but GiF refuted that and pointed out that his play was gross for town-Varsoon. There was an attack on pieguyn earlier where he attacked him for being awkward around Sakura (another meta entanglement), he's generally making pushes now and playing fine. I thought that his "I'm satisfied with my posting this game and I never say that" statement was pretty genuine, as was his explanation of his total play in #2340. Nero is more active and involved than I remember him early game in Marketplace (and a few of his votes like YES I CAN FINALLY VOTE HANA seem like genuine Nerotown, as does his exchange with Mara for her late townreading him), GiF-Nacho sync was pretty cool and also unlikely to be coming from GiF-scum unless he's gotten amazing at predicting momentum ahead of time. Crowning move of towniness was #3743, which, if coming from scum, would require GiF to fight for a mislynch for a majority of the game, be in the perfect position to seize it, and then instead throw his hands up and go "fuck it". I can see where his frustration as town is coming from, and I thought giving the readslist as if he expected to get lynched afterwards and the "fuck you" comment about people not being able to say that he's not doing anything anymore is consistent with his #2340 and pretty genuinely town. I agree with ffery about Christmas miracles, and in response to Xenologue Cabd I will say this: GiF's read on the slot was primarily based on Mac, which he was decently loud about. He also didn't start pushing the slot with conviction until very, very late, which also made it seem genuine to me.
DOMO - Gunsmith claim, will sort himself out. A couple of paranoid flashes look pretty town, and claim this early with nothing relevant would be suicide for DOMO-scum down the road when he could be someone who could go deep, regardless of partners.
Bert - I think that his pieces of concern with me (wondering why I'm criticizing someone who mostly goes after lurkers based on Chosen Mafia, Hard Boiled, coming up with Nacho/ffery scumteam guesses, the "Nacho should be more charismatic and more widely townread by now" theory, then later paranoia push on geists based on gut... all of it seems like he's dealing with a variety of possibilities very quickly, and dealing with genuine paranoia; I haven't seen a Bert scumgame where he's so seamlessly went from player to player to player to player. His aggressiveness in making me see Sakura-town and embrace of the "blacklist tell" reminds me of Shoe in Wingate. He comes across as so much more genuine in his scumgames elsewhere, despite this being a large game that's pretty ridiculous and hard to keep up with.
Getting tired, but this is the townblock for now. I haven't read through Generic/Cephrir/Pie yet and I'm sure at least one of these three will make their way into the townblock. I feel very confident about this group, though (my weakest read is Bert, which should say something in and of itself).In post 4416, Casso the King of Seals wrote:TOWN ANGELS:
Pieguyn - A couple observations I have from the scumgames that I skimmed is that pie :effort: level here is very impressive compared to his :effort: level elsewhere, and his pushes on players here seem much more thorough than they did in any of his other scumgames. Early townread on goodmorning is a bit strange (as in I don't see the basis of it whatsoever), especially since it's one of the pie's top tier townreads; he didn't have any weird townreads like this in Marketplace. I agree with him that the strong tilt against our slot is something unlikely to come from Pieguyn-scum, and his theories of various scumteams sometimes get a little conspiracy theory but they seem very genuine (see: Casso-Cephrir team based on timing, Casso-Sakura team based on D1 and how he got people to talk about the Casso-Sakura possibility after he thought of it); they all seem like unlikely angles for scumpieguyn to push so fervently, especially when he hasn't demonstrated the ability to fervently push easier targets in the past. I also like a lot of his "I expect you would pick on on this" language, seems fairly genuine. The big thing is how absolutely out of his mind he would have to be playing in order to be scum right now, which is why I'm upgrading him at the moment.
ANGELS IN WAITING:
Cephrir - I find the strongest reasoning for him being town his vote on me after he misinterpreted a joke from me as calling him scum; I'm sure scumRir knows that he would be expected to manufacture an attack on me whenever I call him scum, but it was so quick and kneejerk and natural (he didn't even attempt to clarify whether I was actually suspecting him or not) that I have trouble seeing him pulling it off as scum. A couple of his sentiments also come off as really really genuine based on his perception of his town play "to be honest, it's probably a towntell to suspect me right now", "Nacho, I know you're good at reading me but there are others here who are good at reading me who are scumreading me". I liked his reading of DOMO early, and I generally liked his response to being wagonned (voting me for being aggressive, probably town + post before V/LA). He does have the scumrir tone when talking to or about SC, but he lacks it everywhere else so that's a good sign.
Generic - What I like most about Generic is how all over the place he's been this game; I agree with people who have pointed out that he seems more helpful, more "pro-town" as scum. #452 is an example of him being more of a loose cannon (taking a break because being mad at Mara pretty much immediately), as is his exchange with me over how he's treating Mara ("oh, are you trying to get me to tunnel her?") and his rant about people making him explain things early and ruining everything that he's attempting to do in the game. I liked his response to me when he did form his townread on Mara; he was extremely smug about it and had a whole "this is how it's done" air about him which reminds me strongly of his towngame (one of the things that pulled me off him eventually in We the Purple is how damn smug he sounded). I also thought that the series of posts where he says he's trying to be less emotive this game to fight with DOMO later was pretty damn town; he gave the excuses for why he wouldn't be as fiery as his usual town game and then commenced being as fiery as his usual towngame. I also thought that choosing to make his big push on the PR type gives him town brownie points; more likely Generic would spot the softclaiming and kill it during the night as opposed to make a full charge at it.
I feel much more comfortable upgrading pieguyn than I do the other two simply because pie's scumgame has a much smaller range than the other two have, and I simply can't see pie going from two games where generally he got scared to drive his pushes through pretty quickly and never came close to hitting the genuine notes he's hitting here to his play in this game. Even based on his push on Sakura alone here compared to Touhou uPick is town town town.In post 4431, Casso the King of Seals wrote:CAST DOWN FROM HEAVEN (FURY OF FLING FROM STRONGEST TO WEAKEST):
Desperado - I liked Desperado's entrance because it was so solidly "I don't give a fuck, what's up guys". His early pushes felt more fluid and less loud and confident like his normal scum pushes. I didn't like his attack on Varsoon for "false dichotomies" because Varsoon does that as town as Desperado saw. I thought his push on Maraca was fine, and his push on Sakura was good (until recently when he continued pushing Sakura after the meltdown bit and didn't engage anyone on why opinions so radically changed). Geists scumread is also weird although it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a Desperado-scum fakeread, and the "oh I'm not pushing you today even though I have you as a scumread because you're not getting lynched" bit is weird, considering he's made no attempt to sell anyone on any of his non-consensus scumreads. Not at all hitting the level I expect Desperado-town to hit.
Ser Arthur Dayne - Initial read on Tammy is kind of weird (Tammy is highly town unless she can emulate her usual town aggressiveness): SAD hasn't played with Tammy for a while, sure, but I'm fairly sure he played with her on Westeros longer than anyone else in the game, so the bit of paranoia that she could fake what she showed here seemed disingenuous. His push on pie is weird and not really representative of what pie was doing (and I don't like his backtrack when he goes from "pie is doing zero scumhunting" to "his scumreads are fake/he's tunneling"). Him pushing pie pretty strongly and going "meh, can't get a read on you" was strange but probably not alignment indicative, and his later pushes on Muffin/us where he votes us then doesn't comment on the vote at all both feel weird (I think I read something about him explaining the reasons he did this somewhere). I'm still weirded about by his defense of SSK on the basis of being not good information; I like that he was so honest about the associative tell thing (yeah, it was a lie all along), but I'm not really sure what he was supposed to defend himself with as scum and that honestly doesn't look so great when his initial reaction was to lie about it, which would be for SAD-town. His switch on SSK also seems like an odd position to take; he doesn't seem to be getting boxed in by POE and I don't follow his case on SSK today, so the newfound scumread on him seems opportunistic. I like his snark, and I'm inclined to believe him when he says he wouldn't kill Tammy because he joined this game to play for her, but it's not enough for a townread.
Muffin - My main concern with Muffin at this point is that there's nothing in his posts I can point to and strongly declare him town because of it. His attack on me is mostly a response to my attack on him, and has a few genuine-sounding notes that are pretty fakeable for Muffin-scum. He felt a lot more aggressive dismissing me for my read on him than he does now which could be an effect of scumMuffin running out of angles or townMuffin not feeling as strongly about things as he did before. I liked Muffin's question to geists about their townread on me (is it because of how he sorted you?) because a large component of ffery townread on me in Marketplace was my sorting her, and I like the stronger than consensus townread on BRO since it's Muffin shutting down a mislynch option when I'm guessing mislynch options are fairly sparse. In the end, I need more content and I need town leader Muffin over the Muffin that we see here.
Norlkaz (but mostly Brian Skies) - I am completely null on Llamarble, and I've sort of resigned myself to being null on him for a while. Brian Skies did not post enough in order to get any sort of solid read on; there were a couple good-sounding moments earlier in his ISO, but nothing I have any sort of faith in.
BRO - This game feels very, very different from the two games where we were scumbuddies. I agree with general statements that he hasn't dedicated as much time as in scum games to looking town, and the early push on ffery for not seeing what he expected her to seems like a nice early attack on a power player to early attack on me. A lot of his talk relies on other players and based on feelings in other games, and the majority of his pushes lack the low fruit strikes that seemed rampant in his other scumgames (for example, calling goodmorning town for town lurk early closed that option off early when it was something I expected BRO to go for as scum). Concerning bits are mostly based on BRO not hitting the "unfakeable factor" that a lot of players have seem to hit or come close to hitting, lacking something strong that I can point to and declare "yes, this is town", and having a good scumgame with a pretty impressive range. BRO would probably be a decent townread in a more normal game.
SSK read is a special case, not something to be dealt with today.
My main issues are really with the strong town read on pie and the non town read on bro.
The comment you make about bro not being like either scum game you were with him in should have been the full stop because no offense to bro but he doesn't seem t like the type to get very self aware and meta change.
And pie continues to do things that have me questioning the motives. Only gets aggressive at opportune times, disappears when focus falls on him...
But one thing that has me doubting now is that from a nacho reads list I expect a few curveballs... And you seem to have them and in the places I thought you might have them.
Really the only thing my vote hang on after revising this is why did the SSK wagon suddenly get hot when you were on a two count.
Who is optimal lynch today casso if not you? I mean for good scum find, most information... Etc.-
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Pie, that's not a ringing endorsement from you.
I don't trust you altogether, much like you KBBQ will post something very town and then go the other way. His current defence on casso now he is lead wagon is a concern.
In fact, several of you have now come out in defence of casso, I have thrown it out there but give me the best alternative. I don't want a town casso lynched but this feels like a scum hydra. But that is not a certainty read because it relies on others being scum...
Fuck this game, I will wait got responses from casso/KBBQ/pie/anyone else defending casso right now.
In fact, f16, I want you to talk to me here, give me what you are seeing from the game state at this moment in time, I want guidance and you have yet to have input with me.-
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I can't comment on GIF after spy party where I scum read him snd he dc read me and we were both town.In post 4871, pieguyn wrote:sry for confusion, I'm fine with a casso lynch. I still prefer SAD but if not I'd be very ok with casso
I just wanna know if I'm missing smth re: BBQ. GIF has like never been this town ever and his effort level in this game has been way higher than what I'm used to from him, and Nero feels town bc there were some questions he asked and points he made I really liked, although that's kind of gut
thoughts on SAD?
I have been close to voting SAD a few times but ironically it's when he isn't whining and is being more of a dick about things that I actually think he might be town.
There are people like SSK, casso and bert I trust less than SAD. PoE alone makes him less of a priority but he's not off the table until someone like DOMO clears him or he provides a more compelling set of town posts.-
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In post 4950, Desperado wrote:
tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.In post 4949, pieguyn wrote:fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum
also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0
Wow.
Just, wow.
That's one hell of a slip.
vote desperado-
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I'm not sure of anything in this shit heap of a day, but I'm reading it as one.In post 4987, Bert wrote:Are you sure that's a scumslip?-
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Assessment of tammy?In post 4999, Desperado wrote:
do you disagree with my assessment?In post 4997, Generic wrote:
I'm not sure of anything in this shit heap of a day, but I'm reading it as one.In post 4987, Bert wrote:Are you sure that's a scumslip?
I think the fact she can read so many of you is an asset if true. Her inability to read me is a reason we fall out so often, but you know that one desp it's happens between us too.
Only here you have been far more sedate. It's been unnerving.-
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Considering what we went through for me to firstly trust your opinions, secondly understand your opinion and thirdly agree with your opinion... Go fuck yourself DOMO.In post 4819, DOMO wrote:
That SSK is probably town too, and thus doc. Also, that BRO, generic and bert all look dodgy for sheeping me as I tried to muster up votes for you.In post 4817, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
What would a Nacho town flip tell you?In post 4813, DOMO wrote:a town flip would not be a disaster because his wagon is so interesting.-
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You have me for an hour, I thought I had mentioned a few things but have not been back for the responses.In post 5008, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Generic, you still haven't danced with me like you promised you would.
Why have you not done your usual nacho? You piss all over theories, tunnel people you think are scum, and more often than not pull a result.
Remember WE THE PURPLE? tammy fucked up her read on me just for a change, you decide to intervene when you suddenly pulled your head out your arse and saw I was very much town and FUCKING RIGHT on who was scum, and we won.
Here? You are more like newbie 1391. Hiding and tapping away a people without much conviction.
Where's the heart? Cos if I have to I will personally rip it from your chest and feed it to you. Desperado was a bus then was he?-
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Get in line.In post 5013, BROseidon wrote:
I want to lynch this now :/In post 4986, Generic wrote:In post 4950, Desperado wrote:
tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.In post 4949, pieguyn wrote:fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum
also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0
Wow.
Just, wow.
That's one hell of a slip.
vote desperado
And such a bold statement without the fucking vote. Never had you down as a pussy bro. Testing the water to see who will join you?-
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Hi bert,
Im all over the place right now both with thought process, who is thinking they can have a shot next at me, and working out the best lynch without looking a dick.
Basically I want a strong scum chance or collateral damage if wrong. Casso I think is scum still but I will always be hesitant to see a player I know to work well with me in latter game stages be gone and leave me with my own chaos.
Prime example, WE THE PURPLE. Much like you in wingate bert (hence another reason I don't want you gone right now) nacho picked up that I was town and might actually be on to something. Notice how in both those games I had the scum found but as ever fucked up the case building, working on little bits I see and gut calls. And then you fought the case in wingate, in WE THE PURPLE Nachotammy made a fucking good case that ended Cabd's chances of getting me mislynched.
Right now desp who I have a lot of respect for has simply not been himself. People happily right that off as far too obvious but that's the emperors new clothes as far as im concerned.
Then theres this shit about writing it off as a grammar fuckuo, when at the very least pressure being applied is a good thing to put him on the spot and see how he reacts. Give a player the benefit of the doubt or even time to make excuses and it wont be genuine but it will be wifom. But if they are genuine it will show. Look at DOMO. we went to the edge me and him and he is the towniest fucker in this for me right now.
I will dance with you all if I have to but while im in this mood im making the waves.
I watched a tv show called the IT crowd earlier. A character in it says one of the greatest lines ever. im going to borrow it now for this hour I am with you:
"I came to drink milk and kick ass... and ive just finished my milk"-
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How about I point to your misguided early attack on me, your immediate back off when you realised I wasn't low hanging fruit and your attempt to bus your teammate? can I point to those, especially if someone like desperado flips scum?In post 5025, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
That's the second time you've invoked that newbie despite there being absolutely no similarities between the two games. In that game, I knew I was sunk when my scum partner was lynched, and I knew that there was only a tiny tiny way that's would be able to pull off the win because of "that dude is fucking crazy" factors. In this game, there are five seals on every page and my "usual" is to the right of every one.In post 5017, Generic wrote:
You have me for an hour, I thought I had mentioned a few things but have not been back for the responses.In post 5008, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Generic, you still haven't danced with me like you promised you would.
Why have you not done your usual nacho? You piss all over theories, tunnel people you think are scum, and more often than not pull a result.
Remember WE THE PURPLE? tammy fucked up her read on me just for a change, you decide to intervene when you suddenly pulled your head out your arse and saw I was very much town and FUCKING RIGHT on who was scum, and we won.
Here? You are more like newbie 1391. Hiding and tapping away a people without much conviction.
Where's the heart? Cos if I have to I will personally rip it from your chest and feed it to you. Desperado was a bus then was he?
Because you have pulled your punches this game, that's how it feels to me and im used to a nacho with almost as much front as me... who took your fucking bite, is it being paired with thor or are you just scum?
And if you are so embarrassed by that as the example, give me a fucking scum game of yours I can read and contrast.-
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Because that game has finished and he did try to bus his teammate, a tactic that bought him town cred.In post 5030, Sakura Hana wrote:
I'm still waiting on someone... idk, maybe you. To point out why this is busing rather than TvS or TvT?In post 5029, Generic wrote:your attempt to bus your teammate?
Why question this now when it was proven?-
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In post 5033, Sakura Hana wrote:
Because I've been technically absent from the game for most of D2?In post 5031, Generic wrote:Why question this now when it was proven?
The way he pushed people in Marketplace Mafia it's way different than here, if it's other game then idk what you're talking about.
On the one hand both Nacho and Thor are a very strong asset to town if they are town, so I can see scum going for this possibility to get them mislynched.
On the other hand if they're scum they'll live for a long while and eventually they'll leave traces.
If they want to bus their partners let them do it? We get a scum flip anyway.
If they are town then they'll also find scum coz both Thor and Nacho are pretty strong players.
I don't see any reason for them to be lynched today.
I don't understand how you, when im voting desperado because I think he could be scum, and I see casso pushing desp as a main scum suspect after a lot of suspicion on his shoulder and I also happen to suspect casso to be scum, would question why I think its bussing?
What exactly are you asking me? why cant one of them be town? theres a chance either or both are town, but why the fuck carry on playing if I don't suspect SOMEONE?
its a pointless thing to question, I don't trust either of them, so I consider one bussing the other and when asked why im using a specific scum game of nachos as a reason to suspect him that was part of the relevance.-
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Read my response to nacho. This isn't the nacho I expect, with a swagger and determination to see a scum read swing. And I couple that with the 'thor said it' get out clause to any inconsistency to be rather convenient, along with the timing of the SSK wagon against theirs.In post 5038, Sakura Hana wrote:Why don't you trust casso then? I've had a fairly strong townread on them that only faltered like once.
But I still have doubts. I just find his lack of bite even when I exchange words with him a bit shitty.
Tell me why he is town-
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Right well in that case, I want a town pal that isn't DOMO. No offence to him but his tonfoil hat is bigger than mine and its getting tiring trying to read his posts.In post 5040, Bert wrote:I liked your #5027 and am satisfied with it.
But I cant wingate this one up with you bert cos I don't trust you. Your actions have been off, they just haven't been off like desperado and nacho... but you are still in the ballpark with them there.
That's the main thing im hating about this game. Only person ive been able to see familiar ground from is mara and she has pissed off and left me alone in this. there are you bert, nacho, desperado, tammy, mara and to a lesser extent hana that I have a feel for in terms of approaches/mindsets/attitude towards games. Tammy isn't here, nacho, you and desp are acting weird and im left having to figure out players like pie and DOMO on my own.
But on the bright side bert I haven't randomly claimed my role, so im improving-
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In post 5043, Bert wrote:
You didn't trust me in Wingate either until the bitter end. Same with Purple. Where was this undivided passion to work with other players when I played with you in Purple or Wingate?In post 5042, Generic wrote:But I cant wingate this one up with you bert cos I don't trust you.
its always there, I just also have ridiculous mistrust of everybody. Short of being cleared it takes a lot for me to trust someone. In we the purple nacho had to be an unkillable PR creator and I STILL wasn't trusting him fully
Mara I would trust in this because she has 'colo' telled for me. play another 6 or 7 games with me and I will be able to do the same for you. Right now though you merely suck. but the game is young and we are both still alive so lets see where we get this time.
I trusted you just before dying,,, so maybe that's why bert... you are a death wish-
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THIS is the nacho I used to love. Why have I had to request his presence to see that attitude come through?In post 5048, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Eventually, the tide will win. Every post I make is a wave crashing against the beach of the scumteam; I guarantee there will be a hell of a whiplash against all the silence that's currently around me because no one is going to look at this lynch and go "meh, he deserved it".
And as for your point about people not stepping up lkike you would have wanted, that's why I have been wanting this. Twice I have tried to engage with you to see what you have in you, and twice circumstance stopped any interaction. As for the rest that's part of what feels off, I haven't seen the rutting stags checking eachother out in this beyond my own little bubble, so are you blaming them rather than you?
BRO has recently shown he will throw out a wide vague net to allow him to point a finger of suspicion on someone yet not get his hands dirty to do it. That's leaves a shitty taste in the mouth.-
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Same tired old shit cephrir.In post 5051, Cephrir wrote:
As has been pointed out this is roughly 10 million miles from being a slip; in fact I almost like it b/c I'd expect scum to avoid that wording slash think more carefully about it.In post 4959, DOMO wrote:I suppose. I wish you'd have let him answer that. But I still find it weird because I don't feel like I benifitted from tammy's death, we'd be better off if she were still alive, so I don't see how that mindset is town.
I had a light townread on him but would vote him over you if that's what it comes down to. However, from my experience with him this game is so out of character that I have to think apathetic town. I'd be more likely to lynch Muffin, his counterpart, who I've seen be apathetic elsewhere.In post 4967, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
Why not Desp, Cephrir?In post 4897, Cephrir wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ser Arthur Dayne
Not as confident as I once was here, but I like it better than anything else.
I actually literally don't think Desp could be playing less like he did in ASOIAF... making Bert's post kind of weird...In post 4983, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
I see more parallels to his normal scum game than I do to his hydra play in ASOIAF. In both games I remember playing against Desp as scum (Wingate and Xenogears), he's had fits of activity but eventually fell completely below the surface. Here it's fairly similar; he's still pushing cases and he still has cases, but there's no effort to sort anything out or step it up at all even though a few people he feels are scum are completely under the radar in the consensus.In post 4978, Bert wrote:Do you see parallels between his hydra play in Faraday's uPick and this game as a solo? If so, how
You've just jumped from a decent townread to almost deserving a bus.jpgIn post 4986, Generic wrote:In post 4950, Desperado wrote:
tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.In post 4949, pieguyn wrote:fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum
also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0
Wow.
Just, wow.
That's one hell of a slip.
vote desperado
Yes, this. On the other hand he was pretty apathetic in Fire Emblem too.In post 4989, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
If he had more on me, what is it?In post 4925, pieguyn wrote:
afaik he had more on you than this. iirc he did before and he certainly does now. someone tell me if I'm wrong plzIn post 4890, Casso the King of Seals wrote:He's been creating a theory where I coach SSK into intentionally acting scummy in order to take the heat off me (instead of reiterating the original push on him) and his entire case on me is based on that and how more people aren't currently voting me. And then when I point out that the basis of his case (scum aren't jumping on Nacho, thus Nacho is scum) is wrong, he accuses me of not scumhunting and doesn't actually address anything that I brought forward.
I agree that I was probably being a little bit too harsh in 4394 with Muffin earlier apathy. I have explained why I don't really think that an apathetic Muffin in this playlist is a townMuffin, but basic reasoning is that he usually enjoys town more than scum unless he has VIs to sort through, which frustrate him. In this game, there are no VIs and so I would expect him to enjoy sorting through all of this, but there's no sign of anything in his ISO. Where has Muffin actively scumhunted in this game? What has he contributed? Nothing, nothing. And I am completely aware that he can contribute more as either alignment, but I don't see why he hasn't contributed more here considering the usual complaints and obstacles aren't in place. Before, it was site downtime and holidays which is an "okay, fair enough". Now site downtime is done with, holidays are over... Why isn't Muffin stepping up?also, explain your zmuffin read? I don't get it. looking through your ISO I remember stuff like this
but now it say his excuses for apathy are valid, and then also say it's "not what you'd expect from town muffin", when said apathy was iirc p much the whole reason for this. explain why the flip flop plz. and if that's not it then what other reservations are you having about him?In post 4394, Casso the King of Seals wrote:I measured to the 26th. Site downtime hasn't affected anyone else incredibly significantly, so I didn't think that it affected you that horribly. I think the difference is still important even when considering holidays.
What? How? Bert why are you making me doubt you =(In post 5001, Bert wrote:Nachos to disingenuous in the past few pages
Vote: Casso
Kaboom. Lollapalooza
This reaction sucks. Get in line? There wasn't a line until this post. That makes this whole post sound like fake aggression to me.In post 5020, Generic wrote:
Get in line.In post 5013, BROseidon wrote:
I want to lynch this now :/In post 4986, Generic wrote:In post 4950, Desperado wrote:
tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.In post 4949, pieguyn wrote:fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum
also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0
Wow.
Just, wow.
That's one hell of a slip.
vote desperado
And such a bold statement without the fucking vote. Never had you down as a pussy bro. Testing the water to see who will join you?
Oh please. You think they're lying about who posted what in a game with several players who can very easily tell them apart? Please.In post 5041, Generic wrote:
Read my response to nacho. This isn't the nacho I expect, with a swagger and determination to see a scum read swing. And I couple that with the 'thor said it' get out clause to any inconsistency to be rather convenient, along with the timing of the SSK wagon against theirs.In post 5038, Sakura Hana wrote:Why don't you trust casso then? I've had a fairly strong townread on them that only faltered like once.
But I still have doubts. I just find his lack of bite even when I exchange words with him a bit shitty.
Tell me why he is town
Oddly enough, I've only seen this much effort from him once before! I wooooonder what game you've apparently read I could poooosssibly be referring to?In post 5047, Bert wrote:Heh.
Nacho deserves a gold star for effort this game, that's for sure. Regardless of alignment or whether he dies or not.
Sounds fake? Come back when you have something original.
And yet another fucking pussy post. You got a vote, threatening to wave it at me does little more than make me point out you are a pussy.
I literally don't care what you think of my reaction to desperado. The fact it came AFTER several of you lost your mind that anyone would dare put pressure on desp over it didn't bother me and I still made that call, so now you and bro want to see who else might want to wagon me before commiting to a fucking action and I'm supposed to do what? Apologise? Row the line wih the wagon you prefer? Lol.
Crawl back under your rock cephrir.-
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Who's the he and the you there?In post 5057, Sakura Hana wrote:I've seen the Nacho factor in this game before, so idk what Generic's going on about.
He might as well be the one who's busing Des and depcting you as busing so he can easily trade Desp for you in a way to take down a strong town player.
Tho first i'd need to see Desp flip.-
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In post 5063, Cephrir wrote:By the way, if you say you were reaction testing, I'm calling bullshit and voting you more.
Oh look, closing the door. Why am I not surprised.
You are atypical cephrir, I've seen your species before. Thanks for playing.-
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I didn't think you would understand. It's mafia game theory, you have shown nothing to make me believe you have a clue.
Closing the door - to pre empt what the person you are arguing with will post next to spin such a response as scummy. Generally seen as a scum tactic because of the nature of its purpose, to promote your opponent as scummy by creating a supposed template of how a scum player would respond.
In other words, trying to paint me into a corner for your own personal gain in the arguement.
Maybe you need a mentor cephrir.-
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In post 5067, Cephrir wrote:Please, tell me more about how you're so good at this game while calling something a town player is doing a scum tactic.
You can babble about scum tactics all you want, and since I seem to have guessed your response correctly I suppose that's pretty much all you felt you could do. At the end of the day, I have a town role PM, so I don't care and in fact have only confirmed my suspicions that you're an idiot.
Of course, I made that guess because your response was to patently retarded I couldn't imagine what else you would say except "lol jk backing out". I daresay you probably made the original post in the hopes you would get to say exactly what you've said thus far. My only question is why you'd make this random attack in presumably an attempt to lynch me (a very lynchable player, especially now that Nacho won't be as likely to stand up for me after the conclusion of asoiaf; and anyone can see I'm rather weak at defending myself just from this thread) now, unless it's to stop the desperado wagon.
When did I say it was a reaction test?
I had to goad you into voting me, and when you finally crumbled because you were in focus you attempted to close the foot not once, but twice.
The fact you failed makes it even more pathetic.
But go tell me more about how you are town. It's such a lovely story.-
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You don't feel very crumbly but you do feel like a victim who is so lynchable.In post 5072, Cephrir wrote:Oh, now I'm crumbling. Interesting, I don't feel very crumbly. Apparently you think getting a vote is some sort of victory though. I didn't vote you because you told me to. I voted you because 5058 legitimately convinced me you're scum.
I would preemptively laugh about how certain you apparently are I'm scum (even though you aren't voting me, lol), but you obviously are one of those massive-ego "oh he was bad town and deserved it" types, so I won't bother.
And I'm merely suspicious of you, like I'm suspicious of about four other people in this. but by the way on the one hand you are declaring you have me read as scum and know what I'm going to do next but then in the next breath you are this poor little low hanging fruit I don't know whether to laugh or vomit.
You wanna play AtE to avoid being seen as scummy while trying to sell my wagon you are better off WAITING to see if people are suspicious of you. You are too eager to cover tracks, it's embarrassing.-
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Scapegoat for who exactly?In post 5074, Cephrir wrote:But yes, it's pretty obvious you are deliberately trying to make a scapegoat out of me. I'm surprised you're pretending the contrary.
You seem to see a mythical wagon on you in your head. You attacked me, or are you just a little slow?-
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Again cephrir. You are voting me. A vote I pushed you for.
You then proceed to try and close the door on me, when you started the attack on me. All because you didn't like my vote on desp.
You then rant about how I'm trying to wagon you to protect desp... Eh?
Then you rant how I'm picking on you cos you are an easy lynch... I'm still not voting for you.
Then you accuse me of making up things YOU ARE ACTUALLY POSTING, and then hope I feel stupid for lynching you and finding out you are town?
Just the one point here. Your hope that I feel stupid, that would suggest I'm town. But you said I'm scum, so which is it?-
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Again, you attacked me for voting desperado. My vote remains on desperado. You brought him up as the person I'm saving, yet I left a LARGER FUCKING WAGON to push his up.In post 5079, Cephrir wrote:
I dunno, it sure looks like you're trying to save Desp though. You sure are putting a lot of energy into derailing him while voting him. Nice bus.In post 5076, Generic wrote:
Scapegoat for who exactly?In post 5074, Cephrir wrote:But yes, it's pretty obvious you are deliberately trying to make a scapegoat out of me. I'm surprised you're pretending the contrary.
You seem to see a mythical wagon on you in your head. You attacked me, or are you just a little slow?
There is always functionally a wagon on me. Getting lynched is my MO. If I survive to see Day 4, historically, I'm probably scum.
I have already been wagoned this game and pretty much no one feels better than lukewarm about me. It wouldn't be hard. It looks to me like you wanted to try this with Bro but realized either than he's a better player than me and wouldn't be as easy, or that he's not here enough to hand you the correct response in an appropriate amount of time.
If you think this isn't you attacking me, I can't help you, but you could try a psychiatrist.
This feels like deflection. You chainsawed in, and now want to make out I'm the one trying to save desperado?
I'm the only one calling you out on this obvious shit you are pulling cephrir, you are trying to play the victim when no one else is suspecting you. Are you new?
And as for BRO, I've never left him. Notice how I kept goading him with you? He's just not here and you thought you could join the attacks on me and hope I wouldn't bite back.
As you put it, hi I'm generic, your really haven't read my posts.-
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Bert, if you can sell me the casso wagon over the desperado wagon I will move my vote.In post 5123, Cephrir wrote:VOTE: Desperado
Well, at least the stupidity has given me some scum reads, but alas, it seems I shan't get to vote them today, on principle or otherwise.
Away you go.-
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That was half the game ago, and desperado has worked his way onto my scum concerns (pretty sure I've mentioned him a few times regarding this) and regardless of what the rest of you want to say I felt there was something in his slip. I wanted to apply pressure accordingly and what he has done is not really try. That's either defeatist or trying not to give away any information now he's sunk.In post 5269, DOMO wrote:
Generic, why don't you sell it yourself? What has changed since this stage of the game to make desp scum and casso not?In post 2700, Generic wrote:
Played with bert (town read), nacho (scum read), natirasha (scum lean), tammy (town read), GIF (slight scum lean), F16 (town lean), mafiaSSK (scum lean), Pieguyn (scum lean), Sakura hana (town lean), desperado (town lean, but unsettled by his lack of involvement).In post 2684, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Generic, which of the players in this game have you played with before besides Mara? Do you have any strong reads on any of them?
I think I've also played in a game with BROseidon but he is null in this one to me.
fwiw I like this post, these reads look legit and solid.
Casso is still on the table, but he has argued competently and seems to have a few others town reading him so that does need to be considered when making the call.
Why do I need to sell myself another wagon when I'm happy with both but feel casso at least looks to be trying but desp doesn't.-
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In post 5273, Cephrir wrote:I can't imagine why that would worry you?
People are going to argue with others' townreads.
For instance, there is a Casso wagon, and I'm pretty sure *everyone* on his wagon can't be scum.
Cephrir has been keen to try and link me and desp and claim I was trying to derail that wagon using him as the scapegoat.In post 5274, DOMO wrote:
It worries me because generic has given reason to at least have those scumreading him to reconsider, but you seem unwilling. Looks to me like you're keeping your mislynch options open. I must've said three times during your little discussion with generic that it's town-town, but you showed no sign of relenting. I could understand you being cautious if I were looking dodgy, but I'm as conftown here as I was in xenoblade. I might be wrong, of course, but you should at least consider my comments sincere.In post 5273, Cephrir wrote:I can't imagine why that would worry you?
This is the wagon he wouldn't join himself on that very same logic to provide me with the only vote of my wagon with only a few days to go, only to then leap off it when he thinks I'm not about and place it on desperado because he sees that as the way things are going.
I tell you now cephrir, if desp flips scum you are my top suspect. Tactically makes sense you would want to discredit me, try and put focus on me to slow the desp wagon and then bus him now you see it not going away.
You deflected your own tactics onto me. And very clumsily.-
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You knew I wasn't getting lynched yet you voted for me, made out I was trying to shift focus from the wagon I stayed on and then the dry next day, not even that, you move your vote onto the same wagon as me with the excuse of the deadline. So less that a day before the deadline is ages away but suddenly you are compromise lynching?
You are a riot cephrir, next you will be telling me being a moron is a town tell for you.-
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Oh I love a self meta player, do tell me more about what everyone is thinking.In post 5279, Cephrir wrote:P.S. I'm actually becoming town as shit right now, I know it sucks to watch that train roll away from you, but sometimes you gotta roll with the punches. Find another mislynch to push, I'm starting to think you may not get this one after all.-
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If you don't think he will flip scum why did you spend the majority of our arguement claiming I was trying to shift focus from him onto you, and that I was bussing a teammate?In post 5282, Cephrir wrote:
Yes. I am a viable wagon. You are not.In post 5280, Generic wrote:You knew I wasn't getting lynched yet you voted for me, made out I was trying to shift focus from the wagon I stayed on and then the dry next day, not even that, you move your vote onto the same wagon as me with the excuse of the deadline. So less that a day before the deadline is ages away but suddenly you are compromise lynching?
You are a riot cephrir, next you will be telling me being a moron is a town tell for you.
I'm allowed to vote on principle, but I want my vote on Desp now because the competing wagons are close. I don't actually think he'll flip scum.
Being a moron is a Cephrir tell, but you're still scum.
Meta? Who said anything about meta?In post 5281, Generic wrote:
Oh I love a self meta player, do tell me more about what everyone is thinking.In post 5279, Cephrir wrote:P.S. I'm actually becoming town as shit right now, I know it sucks to watch that train roll away from you, but sometimes you gotta roll with the punches. Find another mislynch to push, I'm starting to think you may not get this one after all.
So you call me scum who is trying to shift focus from a player you think is town and is considered by many to be an asset when town into an easily lynchable player in yourself who has no votes on him? I like a challenge do I?
And as scum I'm apparently 'bussing' a town player?
Yeah, wonderful logic. If you are gonna try and billshit at least remember the shit you peddled previously.-
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So you are voting for a guy you think is town. At the same time one of your arguments (the main one in fact) is your belief I have been attempting to divert people from a wagon on said town player onto a guy who is self confessed very lynchable, suggesting your play is looking scummy. And all that is apparently me 'bussing' desperado.
Your such an asset cephrir. Minus the 'et'.