NY 173: Knight-Errant 2 - GAME OVER!

[Twisted Advice]

VOTE: Antihero

Only villains are anti-hero.

[Twisted Advice]

We know what the word means.

[Twisted Advice]

*insert violent flailing reaction here*

[Twisted Advice]

VOTE: Turkish Van

[Twisted Advice]

We will not be revealing our heads.

We are willing, however, to confirm that neither of us is mastin. Since you'll figure that out pretty fast anyway.

If you'd like us to sign under pseudonyms, I at least would be willing to make that concession.-

Iago
(Jafar has not posted yet)

[Twisted Advice]

I can only pray that my insolent bird has not done too much damage here... Good evening I am Jafar and I apologize for not being here sooner. And I am pleased that this game should already prove to be an interesting one.

I am pleased to note that notscience and GreyICE are very likely town. In addition I like Antihero too but that could just be gut. Iago believes in his gut that burn could also be town, though I am apprehensive to give that read at the present. I would also say that I like Turkish Van for town right now. Unless someone can better explain their case to me, I will proceed with

UNVOTE: Turkish Van

And finally I believe that Kublai Khan is likely to be town here. However there are couple of points to note. There is nothing antitown about us being an anonymous hydra at all. And we are not a distraction. Your 45 is patently untrue.

1) It shouldn't make the game into who is the hydra. It's not important. As my bird has so wisely stated to me, no one is forcing you to make this a distraction. This is all on you. In addition there is always the option for you to not try to play that game. We are a hydra of people with whom you haven't played. This is a hydra between the Royal Vizier and his bird. Those are the two player slots. Just imagine us as players you've never encountered. Problem solved.
2) There is no false flag. I am not hiding anything. Your argument works just as well with alts. Would you say that alts are cheating as well?
3) Perhaps, but there are other reasons that one would prefer to hide his or her meta. Perhaps one of us has been having troubles. Or one of us is trying to diverge from established meta. There is plenty of town motivation

As for there only being motivation to distract people for out of game reasons, that is false. I don't see why you're being so hostile here. We aren't even the only hydra. If you consider it cheating, why are you in a game with so many hydras?

You're simply making things up with regards to us playing non mafia games inside a mafia game. We are not revealing anything apart from the fact that we are Jafar and Iago. It is as simple as that.

Now I feel as though Bob's first posts look too much like an attempt to appear lighthearted and uncaring in RVS. They appear forced.

VOTE: Bob

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

Are you reading the thread, Hopkirk? Iago voted Turkish Van because he did not like their 33. I disagreed, saying that I actually did like it, and he was fine moving the vote away from them. Plus Bob is a much better vote anyway.

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

I can only pray that my insolent bird...

Oh, fuck.. You're going to

roleplay

on top of it all?

STOP. IT. ALL OF IT.

Hey, this may come as news to you, but mafia is a game and its purpose is to have fun. Because of reasons, we feel that what we're doing will make the game more fun for both of us. If you can't handle it, fucking replace out.

1) It shouldn't make the game into who is the hydra. It's not important. As my bird has so wisely stated to me, no one is forcing you to make this a distraction. This is all on you. In addition there is always the option for you to not try to play that game. We are a hydra of people with whom you haven't played. This is a hydra between the Royal Vizier and his bird. Those are the two player slots. Just imagine us as players you've never encountered. Problem solved.
2) There is no false flag. I am not hiding anything. Your argument works just as well with alts. Would you say that alts are cheating as well?
3) Perhaps, but there are other reasons that one would prefer to hide his or her meta. Perhaps one of us has been having troubles. Or one of us is trying to diverge from established meta. There is plenty of town motivation

1) And yet Post 22 happened. So you're wrong because it is a distraction.
2) If an alt walks in and says "Hey, I'm alt of someone so famous that they need an alt!" then yes, it creates a false flag. Mafia is a game of honed gut instincts and strategic pattern detecting. If you're flaunting your dishonesty about your identity then you fuck with gut reads. And if you're doing this as town, then you should be banned from playing.
3) None of that has anything to do with

this current game

. So I don't give a flying fuck. Quit making

this game

harder by bringing all sorts of nonsense garbage into it. hence my request that you drop the dumb dumb dumb charade.

Also, why do you have GreyICE as likely town and Bicepherous Bob as scum? They are doing variations on the same shtick except that at least Post 15 contains a grain of reasoning.[/quote]
1) Wow, one RVS post. Guess what, 95% of the noise regarding this issue is coming from you. The sooner you decide to just play mafia instead of bitching about something that doesn't matter, the better.
2) This is not what's going on here at all. And that's all I'm going to say on the matter. Sit down, shut up and play mafia.
3) The only one making this game harder is you.

Are you reading the thread, Hopkirk? Iago voted Turkish Van because he did not like their 33. I disagreed, saying that I actually did like it, and he was fine moving the vote away from them. Plus Bob is a much better vote anyway.

~The Royal Vizier

Neither of you mentioned any reasoning for the initial vote. I’m asking the person who actually made the vote so “it was the other head” is not a valid excuse.

And saying “are you reading the thread” then trying to justify that by saying there’s stuff you’re talking about in the quick topic that you’re presenting as being part of the thread is stupid.

So I’m waiting from a response from the one of you who made a vote.

I voted because I didn't like the first quote stripe in 33. I also wanted to see how they'd reply to the naked vote. It wasn't anything incredibly substantial, but it was slightly better than my RVS vote. Jafar has stronger feelings about Bob than I curently do about anyone, and as such our vote has landed there.

Also, I think burn and (unfortunately) KK are town. Basically I agree with the post above this one.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Fixed tags:

I can only pray that my insolent bird...

Oh, fuck.. You're going to

roleplay

on top of it all?

STOP. IT. ALL OF IT.

Hey, this may come as news to you, but mafia is a game and its purpose is to have fun. Because of reasons, we feel that what we're doing will make the game more fun for both of us. If you can't handle it, fucking replace out.

1) It shouldn't make the game into who is the hydra. It's not important. As my bird has so wisely stated to me, no one is forcing you to make this a distraction. This is all on you. In addition there is always the option for you to not try to play that game. We are a hydra of people with whom you haven't played. This is a hydra between the Royal Vizier and his bird. Those are the two player slots. Just imagine us as players you've never encountered. Problem solved.
2) There is no false flag. I am not hiding anything. Your argument works just as well with alts. Would you say that alts are cheating as well?
3) Perhaps, but there are other reasons that one would prefer to hide his or her meta. Perhaps one of us has been having troubles. Or one of us is trying to diverge from established meta. There is plenty of town motivation

1) And yet Post 22 happened. So you're wrong because it is a distraction.
2) If an alt walks in and says "Hey, I'm alt of someone so famous that they need an alt!" then yes, it creates a false flag. Mafia is a game of honed gut instincts and strategic pattern detecting. If you're flaunting your dishonesty about your identity then you fuck with gut reads. And if you're doing this as town, then you should be banned from playing.
3) None of that has anything to do with

this current game

. So I don't give a flying fuck. Quit making

this game

harder by bringing all sorts of nonsense garbage into it. hence my request that you drop the dumb dumb dumb charade.

Also, why do you have GreyICE as likely town and Bicepherous Bob as scum? They are doing variations on the same shtick except that at least Post 15 contains a grain of reasoning.

1) Wow, one RVS post. Guess what, 95% of the noise regarding this issue is coming from you. The sooner you decide to just play mafia instead of bitching about something that doesn't matter, the better.
2) This is not what's going on here at all. And that's all I'm going to say on the matter. Sit down, shut up and play mafia.
3) The only one making this game harder is you.

Are you reading the thread, Hopkirk? Iago voted Turkish Van because he did not like their 33. I disagreed, saying that I actually did like it, and he was fine moving the vote away from them. Plus Bob is a much better vote anyway.

~The Royal Vizier

Neither of you mentioned any reasoning for the initial vote. I’m asking the person who actually made the vote so “it was the other head” is not a valid excuse.

And saying “are you reading the thread” then trying to justify that by saying there’s stuff you’re talking about in the quick topic that you’re presenting as being part of the thread is stupid.

So I’m waiting from a response from the one of you who made a vote.

I voted because I didn't like the first quote stripe in 33. I also wanted to see how they'd reply to the naked vote. It wasn't anything incredibly substantial, but it was slightly better than my RVS vote. Jafar has stronger feelings about Bob than I curently do about anyone, and as such our vote has landed there.

Also, I think burn and (unfortunately) KK are town. Basically I agree with the post above this one.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Kublai Khan I will post and speaking in whatever way I prefer. If you perceive it as role playing, that is your prerogative, but there is no reason for you to tell me to stop it.

1) We cannot be faulted because Antihero wanted to guess our identities. It is irrelevant. Post 22 was not our fault. If anyone could be considered a distraction there, it would be Antihero. Anyway as I have already stated, this is a hydra between The Royal Vizier and Iago. There. You have identities.
2) As for your second point, we did not come in saying we were a famous alt. we came is saying we were a hydra. That is all. We haven't created any false flags. All the false flags are coming from you.
3) You are the one making the game harder. We are just trying to play. Stop pushing us just because you're unhappy that we're anonymous. Or do you have reason to suspect that we are scum because of it?

As I have already said, I found Bob's posts to feel more fake and more an attempt to appear lighthearted about RVS. I like GreyICE for town at the moment because of his suspicions on Bob.


Hopkirk, my point asking if you read the thread was because, if you did, you would realize that your vote is off. You voted me for voting someone and then immediately changing it. Iago had already said that he had been the only one posting before and so that vote was his. I came in my post saying I disagreed and I unvoted. This all happened in thread and yet you voted me regardless. Why?

And, yes, Kublai Khan is obvious town, everyone. Good deductions.

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

Aggressive tone, while something I generally like, is a GreyICE tell.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

See, that? That is town as fuck.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

You'll have to wait for Jafar for that one. Presumably it had a lot to do with agreeing with the vote.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I also agree with burn, it sounds town. But I don’t really think that was indicative of alignment. That kind of stuff seems to be something that he has a long standing dislike of so he does believe what he’s saying which nullifies the point that it looks town motivated- it looks genuine because it is genuine but it’s about something which scum or town can easily look genuine in saying.

Beast why? This would mean you view us both as scum so got a case on each of us?

@60 twisted: Because of the vote on someone then the statement in your next post that the person was town with nothing changing.
If one of you thinks he’s town and the other says scum then the presentation that your slot views him as town is out of place.

@66: Could you explain? Is this due to a meta read on ice?

pedit: Holy cow
VOTE: Monkeyman

Re 60: I don't know why this is so hard. 33 bugged me slightly, but my other head had a stronger opinion in the opposite direction.

No, it's not. 65 is just a really town-motivated post. This is naive of me and I know that, but it feels like a dumb thing for scum to say-- it does nothing but give other players ammo should he indeed survive that long, and as such I surmise that he honestly expects to be nightkilled.

third, the monkeyman vote. it's pretty awful

This so much, holy crap. Monkey didn't say anything scumy; he was merely confused. The pounce on him after that looks to me like scum scenting a weak, mislynchable townie. My only reservation is that someone else had just argued that Monkey's posts were town, so it wouldn't seem as appealing/like an obvious easy lynch.

Early town read on anti-hero.

Agreed.

well, for one you're asking for cases on page 3 when beast was pretty clear on what his point was against you
second, your stance on KK makes no sense and tries to kind of parrot what GreyICE said while agreeing with the "KK is town" echochamber (you agree with burn, it sounds town; but..... then again, not?)
third, the monkeyman vote. it's pretty awful

now your turn.

1.) If i'm bussing he thinks we're both scum. If his only reason is "hop's bussing" that's not enough to justify a scum read on either of us. The other parts of his post- he did it... that means nothing, and it looks artifical- last town game i was called robotic, i rather frequently get that kind of stuff.
2.) I do not say he is town or scum, i am explaining the point that makes him, on first look, appear obvious town is something which was not actually indicative of alignment. (I find him null btw)
3.) His posts were pretty awful yeah. It sounds like his mtivation there is to totally halt what's going on and draw away attention from something that was happening there.

Pere want to explain?

1) BC gave more reasons than this, so this point is disingenuous.
3) To reiterate others, this is weak shit. I don't know how you can attribute what is clearly confusion of the setup, even if he's scum, for conniving intentional derailing of the conversation. It would take all of one post to straighten him out, say there is no jester, and return to the state of affairs already underway. Which is exactly what happened.

1.) I said during the post I made the vote- the sudden 360 from voting someone to saying that person was a town read- and a good town read- without any explanation and without the person posting in between.

2.) As I’ve said before “3.) His posts were pretty awful yeah. It sounds like his mtivation there is to totally halt what's going on and draw away attention from something that was happening there.” And “And monkey's town reads come from whomever defends him while he tries to bring us back to rvs and stop what's going on now?” He’s trying to perpetuate unnecessarily rvs in what appears to me to be an attempt to remove attention to something from a partner.

1) I am pretty sure we have already explained this, but see further up in this post if it needs saying again. Calling it a "good/strong town read" was Jafar's opinion, but on balance this slot does read that one as leaning town.

"this should be evident from the way he tried to differentiate between protown and townish in 73"

Yes i'm saying that it's not possible to tell town genuinity from something you actually believe genuinity meaning the tell become null.

I don't understand the quoted post here or what is then said about it.

In other news, I have a townread on Peregrine.
If it was solely up to me I'd move my vote to Hopkirk, but honestly Bob is still also scum, so it's kinda whatever.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Incredibly mild hydra dissonance, because I barely cared in the first place.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Call me crazy, but Hopkirk it feels like you are busing Twisted. I know you aren't me but gosh do you remind me of a game where I basically came out of the gate busing my teammate.

Even if you aren't bussing I don't get the feeling that your posts are genuine in anyway.

VOTE: Hopkirk


I like Kublai, they make me laugh.

There are clearly two things going on here.

Also, "I don't like hydras" isn't a good excuse either. There still isn't anything scummy going on here.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I know, right? It's not even sporting if they're going to throw themselves at us.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

As I have already said, I found Bob's posts to feel more fake and more an attempt to appear lighthearted about RVS. I like GreyICE for town at the moment because of his suspicions on Bob.

You read greyICE as town not because of his aggressive tone and his attempt to get people to react to his jester claim, but because he placed a naked vote on me?

Aggression is aggression. It means little. The jester claim was simply a dull joke. I liked the fact that he pulled suspicion on you. I also feel like one of you has a very good chance at being scum. My thoughts are more with you than with him. How is this difficult to understand?

Post 73 from Hopkirk turns my stomach. As Iago has already stated, he found minor things off with Turkish Van. I explained that I found Turkish Van to have a much more town tone and that is why I unvoted. Iago feels he can go either way, so let me drive that read myself. Plus there are scum reads we agree on that are much better lynches. For instance you and Bob.

In addition your vote on Monkeyman is painfully opportunistic for painfully poor reasons. Antihero has done a pretty good job explaining why you are scum.

Regarding post 99, I encourage you to read the above, Hopkirk.


Bob, how is Hopkirk so 'townish'? I fail to see it. I ask you as well, jbomber.


Kublai Khan:
See above for GreyICE versus Bob
notscience is a player who will reveal himself in time. Plus I mildly enjoyed post 43.

Now let us discuss your reads list: namely that it conflicts will essentially every read of mine.
Explain how both Bob and Hopkirk are both town. I could see the argument that one might be scum and the other may be oblivious of this and be playing along, but I find it incredibly naive to believe them both town.

In addition, please explain how you have scum reads on Katarina, charizard, Monkeyman, and Antihero, as well as GreyICE and jbomber. In fact if you could explain all of your reads, that would be most appreciated.


Lords of the Unreal, it is very unlikely that Kublai Khan is scum. All of his misplaced aggression towards us as a hydra did not seem to be an attempt to misdirect the town. It felt like legitimate irritation from a townie who was frustrated by, in his mine, something undermining his ability to read the game.

Also I would like to see a serious reaction from Bob. He looks like scum trying to avoid any risk of letting anything slip, and thus treating everything as a long running joke. I don't see why town would try for so long to be so distanced from the game. I don't see the town motivation to feign such a lack of seriousness.

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

@KK:
re notscience, I liked his early posts. But he's not worth our attention at the moment as his alignment will become obvious extremely quickly. That's just how he works.

I thought that one Greyice post was town not because scum couldn't have written it, but because it would not be in their best interests to write it.

My master has covered the rest admirably. I am fortunate to serve one so wise and powerful. I would parrot his opinion about your reads list, as I believe I disagree with virtually every part of it (except possibly Katarina, though that's exclusively my opinion). Please elaborate.

BC, you mentioned that your little subgroup have good reads on each other, and yet I don't think I know what your reads on all of them are.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

(And yes, we did just give conflicting reasons for Greyice being town; we agree on the read but for different reasons)

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I am a bit more of a night owl than the grand vizier, so he can yell at me for this in the morning if he wants. I can't not react here.

99- we can’t see your quicktopic can we? So why do you expect us to know what's in it?

Perhaps because we told you with words in this thread just now?

@Twisted: 73 I have clearly explained my logic.

UNVOTE: Monkey

You did not just do that. Did he just do that? I am pretty sure he just did that.

Did you think no one was going to notice you slipping that unvote in there (just because you got attacked for your vote)? And right after you defended you own logic, implying you still believe in the vote. AND not because you needed to move your vote somewhere else? Oh come ON.

VOTE: Hopkirk

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

*voting intensifies*

Iago

Vote Count 1.07

Bicephalous Bob (2) - GreyICE, Antihero
Lords of the Unreal (2) - Turkish Van, MafiaSSK
MafiaSSK (2) - MonkeyMan576, PeregrineV
Hopkirk (2) - beastcharizard, Twisted Advice
GreyICE (1) - Kublai Khan
Turkish Van (1) - notscience
Antihero (1) - Bicephalous Bob
Kublai Khan (1) - Lords of the Unreal

Not Voting (6) - Katarina LeBlanc, Metal Sonic, Guzame, burn_209, jbomber732, Hopkirk

18 alive, 10 to lynch. Deadline is set for 3 weeks from now, on April 21st, 2014 at 6:00 p.m., PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2014-04-21 18:00:00)

[Twisted Advice]

1.) Which was not present when you attacked me for saying it?

2.) Yes- as a reaction test. Seeing if anyone voting me would unvote when i did then they would be

probable partners for monkey

.
The initial logic i've already said was not the best-it's good for the stage it was made at-thus

the scumread is minor

. Why do you think i can't change my votes?

So to further explain myself here, bolded is both massive cognitive dissonance and somewhat contradictory with the attempt to maintain the logic (while unvoting) in previous post. Basically there is just nothing right here. I'll volunteer to eat the sultan's moldy crackers if this is town.

jbomber--liked his early willingness to go against the grain with a Hopkirk town read and his seeming to be happy at knowing someone in the game from his comment to Mala.

Good point, I hadn't looked at it that way.

Also, nice entry post. Stay a while.

trying to be cute and disarming while not really saying anything :3

Dang it, that totally worked on me.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Lol. I could be if you want. But I meant Kat's cutesy thing.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Sorry, what I meant was, hey baby, what's your genus and species?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Guzame, you read all eight pages, and the most interesting thing you found was that there were hydras? So, the OP. If you're really that interested in the merits of hydras, there are MD threads for that. Comments on the game content, please.
--PA

Actually, that was my reply to at least 2 pages worth of discussion on the topic of Hydras, not the OP.
But I guess you're right, I should take that complaint elsewhere, not in this game.

And my opinion on the game so far? I honestly didn't see any "scummy" tells so far. It mostly seemed like joking to keep a conversation going to me.
The only thing that struck out to me(besides the Hydra conversation) was that I feel like Hopkirk got attacked very heavily with little reason, while he honestly looks like a townie to me.

How much mafia experience do you have? This post is something I would expect from a first-timer.

Bob--avoids engaging on points, like the coaching accusation. Dismisses people citing earlier games of his without elaboration.

you aren't serious about the coaching accusation are you

please provide a game where I talked trash as scum

Why is your vote still sitting somewhere completely worthless? Are you planning on attempting to play mafia at some point, or are you going to just keep only reacting when your name shows up?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Hop: That's a very hard concept to grasp, such that I still don't grasp it, and I still can't even tell if you're calling me scum.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Monkey/206: This seems to be an example of trying to make his scumreads look stupid (taking something I said as something that someone else said later and implying the second person was the first+only one to say it).

@Twisted: Since i'm not referring to you specifically then why would you get that from it? The only point on you that i've made i have considered moot for a while now so why would you say that?

Oh, I get it. I thought you were saying anyone who voted you for unvoting was scum, but you were saying the opposite. Mmkay.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

snarky

clever

/shrug

parallelism

this is going to be an easy game dudes

[Twisted Advice]

1.) Which was not present when you attacked me for saying it?

2.) Yes- as a reaction test. Seeing if anyone voting me would unvote when i did then they would be probable partners for monkey.
The initial logic i've already said was not the best-it's good for the stage it was made at-thus the scumread is minor. Why do you think i can't change my votes?

As has already been painfully obviously pointed out, your 'scumtell' excuse is very weak and doesn't hold up to any, ever so slight scrutiny. What made you think that any scum would immediately make himself that obvious? That would be the most blatant chainsaw disengagement in the history of mafiascum. Really it looks like you wanted to get yourself off a terrible wagon and find a way to throw suspicion on anyone who called you out on it.

What did you learn from your reaction test?

I still fail to see why anyone considers Kat possible scum. She looks like your normal, run of the mill town.

I'm noting a lot of people saying that Hopkirk is a bad wagon, yet I'm seeing no real defense of him. At all. Why are people town reading him?

pretty sure it's got something to do with my youth

hmm I thought I'd played with town hopkirk before, but that was hiplop

If anyone recalls when I was saying I wished that bob would give a legitimate reaction to anything, this is another example of non seriuosness. Why bob? Why can you not simply play the game without having snarky sidebars. It's like you're trying to bash everyone over the head with your lack of seriousness and trying to use that to get people to townread you rather than by playing playing the game.What is the town motivation for that?


Turkish Van, I mostly just liked the tone from you. I felt the towniness permeate it. I cannot explain how I knew, it was just my gut reaction to your posts. You have since proved over that my initial reaction was correct anyway.

PSA: Katarina is also town

PSA: Bob is hitting the stage of scum where he knows that there's people with solid scumreads on him, but he's not quite sure what behavior will make him not be lynched.

This is a good post that describes my feelings toward Bob well.

I maintain my Lords of the Unreal townread

notscience's insanity regarding 'rolefishing' reads town.

Kublai Khan, I will continue my role as the Royal Vizier to the Sultan for as long as it pleases me, and my bird will do as he wishes as well. In addition this is how hydras operate. It is difficult for my pet and I to communicate all of the time, so there is bound to be dissonance. At least we are explaining it here, though. And for the most part our reads mesh nicely. Perhaps you could complain about one of the other hydras and feign productivity. If you don't like hydras, don't play with them. Stop trying to insult us or make us feel bad for playing in a way that appeals to us.

I would still like you to explain your awful reads too. Why do you refuse to do so?

[Twisted Advice]

Hey Mala

You and peng should have a long discussion about the following topics

1) Why isn't ns in our townreads yet

2) When we put him in our townreads do we put him in the "holy fuck he's town" slot, the "obvtown" slot, or the "holy fuck he's obvtown" slot

Can someone on the hopkirk wagon (I'd prefer one of the later votes) explain why it's a thing? "Bcoz he's scummy" is not an answer.

You are not obvtown yet and you should really know it.

Now if you were town you wouldnt be lazy because as a town member you have to actually make shit happen instead of sit back and let shit come your way like scum do.

So on that note VOTE: jbomber

Wall + this = town

Ok, even though he has only posted like twice, I've gotten extremely strong scumreads from them.

VOTE GUZAME

This post gave me cancer.

-big wall of stuff-

Congratulations on making a sizable post yet saying absolutely nothing of consequence. Your entire post is majorly composed of flimsy "could go either way" comments that can easily be backed out of later and look tailor-made not to raise anyone's ire. The one and only even slightly solid comment you made (notsci's play) was backed out of in your very next post, even. Complete rubbish.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: burn

~Island

The wall was more substantial than you give it credit for, and more importantly while it didn't say as much as perhaps it could it was filled with town thought processes IMO.

UNVOTE:

>.>

And beast, I invite you to 1v1 me.

Why unvote then?

Bicephalous Bob is a townread because I haven't read a decent case on him. Got one?

I had gotten the impression you were reading the thread, but you may have just proved me wrong.

SSK's town.

~Stalker

...???

@Twisted: Hopkirk is town. Vote scum.

Convince me.

Why are people scum-reading hop is a better question which I have seen no good response to.

Read our posts???

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Not staying with 1 vote persay, but he switches every single time he doesn't get good vibes off someone. I never said it was bad, I was just asking him a question, and I didn't get an answer.

You appear to be scrambling for a reason for this scumread.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

This is me not being sure whether or not 346 should be causing me to repeatedly slam my head into my desk.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Well... the QT you're talking about is in reference to some other game right? Surely?

please?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

[Twisted Advice]

Hopkirk (3) - beastcharizard, Twisted Advice, MonkeyMan576
Bicephalous Bob (2) – PeregrineV, Antihero
burn (2) – LotU, SSK

Everything else looks to be a one vote wagon. Could we consider lynching scum today, please?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

The really long unsigned posts are Jafar's. I prefer to spread out my contributions.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I'm not sure I really get the volume of sudden beast hate. Nor the Khan hate. The latter of which, if it has been adequately explained ever, I have no recollection of reasons for.

I want PV to be town for trying, but this possible meta stuff is a bit bothersome.

Hopkirk and Bob are still scum, and we should wagon them better.

Iago

p-edit: Do we? It's pretty clearly scum, right?
Unless you're proposing something else?

[Twisted Advice]

Ah, my mistake. I had meant to say in that post that burn was a bad wagon. I totally support the other two.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

VOTE: Bob

[Twisted Advice]

I'm not trying to be new wtf. where did u get that idea? I'm trying to lynch the scum too if u havent noticed. I'm just also trying to look like a frikin town.

I don't think this mindset is as bad as anyone thinks it is. Town don't like being lynched either, for one. Yes, it's generally accepted that scum are more worried about how they're perceived (because really that's all they actually have to focus on), but the baldfaced admission that he's concerned about his apearance just doesn't really bother me.

This is my first non-newbie game, so I'm a bit confused with some things, such as hydras. But I'm a quick learner and hopefully you don't judge me just because im less experienced.

This is where you were saying you were new.

VOTE: jbomber

You aren't trying to catch anyone. You aren't scum hunting. All you are doing is posting nonsense and poorly defending yourself. If you were town you wouldn't care so much about looking town. You would care about catching the scum. You would use your vote as a weapon.

Also, people who make posts that are town motivated get on my town list.

Lazy.

my b. Bob sounds good.

VOTE: Bob

Why do people sign up for games they don't want to play?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I did catch that, and it doesn't sit well with me. The post surrounding it was also not great. Is it really worth making an instawagon of though? Someone may need to walk me through the theory behind it- is it simply "town don't iso their predecessors"? Because I totally do that.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I am not particularly amused by Bob completely ignoring his wagon. I still want a claim there honestly.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I did catch that, and it doesn't sit well with me. The post surrounding it was also not great. Is it really worth making an instawagon of though? Someone may need to walk me through the theory behind it- is it simply "town don't iso their predecessors"? Because I totally do that.

Iago

Shut up

Vote scum

Your theory

Is done

I don't care for your tactics. I'll vote when I'm good and fucking ready.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Khan isn't scum just because he refuses to be strongarmed.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

No, Captain Fuckwit, the stupidest happens every time you post. I could raise the average IQ of the thread 10 points by lynching you.

If you're not going to take part in anything of interest this game, sit down and shut up. You're barely playing at all at this point, so at least spare the rest of us your inane babble.

Feel free to cut it out with the ad hom whenever you're ready.

are we playing the same game, khan?
...or is that you don't have a town win condition?

i get that you and grey don't like each other (i'm gathering because of out of game reasons). but the zombie wagon should really be giving you dissonance to resolve in your scumreads. you can either a) change your read on grey or b) think that grey is bussing the shit out of mnemonic (or that grey is sk or whatever).
is there really that much vitriol that you would rather sit on the sidelines and NOT lynch one of your scumreads because "fuck you grey!"? do you need couple's counseling or something? if your dislike for grey's playstyle is making you play against your supposed win condition, there's some re-evaluation needed.

B isn't that insane.
And I kinda understand where he's coming from right now.

I did catch that, and it doesn't sit well with me. The post surrounding it was also not great. Is it really worth making an instawagon of though? Someone may need to walk me through the theory behind it- is it simply "town don't iso their predecessors"? Because I totally do that.

Iago

hey twisted,
i walked you through this with reasoning in 522, 523, and 525.

Yeah, the IIOA bit is why I agree that he's probably scum. The Amished tell bit, while a thing, isn't enough by itself.

Iago, who is getting slightly tired of flapping his wings to stay in the air and someone should come lend him a nice pointy shoulder to sit on

[Twisted Advice]

burn 612 is like trust tell levels of town

[Twisted Advice]

There is no claim I would believe. If it was a mason there would be one player calling it town.

VOTE: Mnemonic

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Hopkirk, mostly.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Not to mention, sucking this much is well within SSK's meta.

Also, we're not lynching Khan tomorrow and possibly ever.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Although I admit a hydra of Faraday and Mastin is a hilarious concept.

You're right, that sounds hilarious!

I think I'm flattered.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

VOTE: Bomber

Bomber has to be scum. I mean look at their play yesterday. It was horrible and now they were just content on hopping on some wagon at the start of the day. They don't even give a reason. They aren't sheeping a town read otherwise they would have said so.

Hopkirk is in the same boat coming in here saying nothing but voting.

I don't agree with this, but I approve of the mindset. Some people were concerned about BC yesterday, but what with the awkwardly high (town) placement on PV's scumlist and interactions with the dead, I think he is very likely town.

I need to look back, but for now,
VOTE: Hopkirk.
We may attempt to readlist today.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

you got me

i guess everyone's saying he's the sk (which is actually pretty reasonable)

in all likelihood, he's not groupscum, though

I think Bob is more likely to be mafia (despite the interactions not looking that scummy off the top of my head) than SK. His play would be really godawful for an SK and completely counter to everything the wincon stands for.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

That is quite possibly the most simplistic thinking I have ever read.

Also, everyone said Bob was scum, so...?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Your logic is bad and you should feel bad.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Apologies for my lack of presence yesterday. The affairs of the kingdom and various other real life issues took precedence. I should be here with more consistency now.

Metal Sonic, could you explain post 730 and 731 for me? It looks suspiciously like you slipped insider information and tried to cover it with nonsensical jabbering as appears to be your trademark.

VOTE: Metal Sonic

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

The SK knows the setup.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

True, it's not my preferred mode of anything.

Still, if we don't end up going for this today, do remember it down the line.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Yes, and I'm baffled as to why I'm the only one.

I haven't looked at yesterday again yet, though.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Firstly, until you said that no one was thinking it.

Secondly, Nati and SSK have played together a lot IIRC and are probably just sheeping each other for that reason.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

You are such a bloody idiot.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I bothered to iso the dead scum. And hey, what do you know, Hopkirk is still scum!

mnem's interactions with Antihero and TV are slightly strange.

VOTE: Hopkirk.
I don't feel the Kat wagon at all btw.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I bothered to iso the dead scum. And hey, what do you know, Hopkirk is still scum!

mnem's interactions with Antihero and TV are slightly strange.

VOTE: Hopkirk.
I don't feel the Kat wagon at all btw.

Iago

lol,

my

reactions were slightly strange?

no, sir,

your

reactions were pretty damn sketchy (hence why i asked khan for a read).

No, not your reactions. That's entirely from iso'ing mneumonic. I still haven't looked at anyone other than the flipped scum from yesterday.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

speaking of twisted, i'll say my piece about him since khan kind of shrugged him off.

he's one of the leading candidates for mneumonic busmaster. go to his ISO and start at 482.

482: soft defense of mneumonic ("i also do the amished tell stuff")
483: beating the bob wagon drum still (wanting a claim from bob?... lol)
489 - 615: procrastinating on the mneumonic wagon while slap-fighting with greyice.
616: hammer without a claim. red flag since town would know that there would be a huge backlash if mneumonic flipped town. makes more sense if he knew mneumonic would flip scum.

now turkish van and I are getting dirt thrown on us because ... why?

come on out with it

I get why you think this. Most of it isn't something I can defend against. On the subject of the hammer, however, I disagree. I knew I was going to want to hammer mneumonic no matter what he claimed (and Jafar agreed with me on this), as there was no possible thing he could have said at that point that would convince me not to lynch him, and I didn't see any point in giving him the chance to slip away. I was confident enough he would not happen to flip a town PR if he was somehow town, that I felt the reward was worth the risk.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I'm starting to feel a little bloodthirsty.

Vote: Katarina

Actually, the more she talks the less susbstance there is. She has done nothing to show she's town and everytime someone says she's scum she makes a snide remark.

Katarina is too easy. Not trying isn't a scumtell.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Explain.

Vote bob

Why the fuck are you voting Bob?

You're still scum because of the way the scum treated you. PV came at youy and then awkwardly dropped it. mnem was weird too, I forget how, I can dredge this up if necessary.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

My case on Hop from Day 1 still stands. Plus the post right above yours.

Bob is pretty obv not mafia at this point because of mnem and PV. The Bob wagon is even worse than the Kat wagon.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

unvote

Twisted: I addressed the points you made day one and I cannot see your rebuttal thus I would request a case if you believe me to be scum.

I'm not looking at it right now but I'd take good odds I don't find this "rebuttal" convincing or sufficient.

Twisted appears to be trying to go on an easy wagon (and disassociate with another easy one/kat for town cred) and is now going for bad justification based on associations with scum which he does no more than allude briefly, without quotations, to.

You could say this about literally anyone.

I disliked the way twisted’s votes went yesterday in relation to device. He seemed to stay on the wagon (bob), that most of the scum were on with very little reason then switched to device when it would look the best/when he was obviously being lynched.

Funny, that's the first we've heard of it. Awfully convenient.

VOTE: Twisted

Any way the wind blows, eh?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Oh a wagon on me with both Kublai Khan /and/ Hopkirk? I'm so impressed with the quality of this wagon. And they're sheeping a halfwagon from Antihero that he himself isn't even voting for. Talk about lay voting.

482 is incorrect. Iago didn't say that he commits the Amish tell. In fact there's not much defense there at all. He said the post didn't sit well with him but he wanted to know why it was instawagon worthy. He wanted to know why the Amish tell is actually a real tell. How it works and all that. How is that scummy?
483 is because Bob was, is, and always will be scum. He needs the rope even though for some reason to one actually wants to commit to voting him. If a Bob wagon picked up, you can bet we'd be one of the first on it. How is that scummy?
Can you explain what you meant by procrastinating the wagon. I wasn't actually here for that bit. I assume that Iago was waiting to check in with me but figured he should hammer then. Especially since the Bob wagon was able to be derailed so hard.
Derp hammers are not a scum tell. He posted several times in the QT asking if he should hammer and finally got trigger happy.

If we are scummy for hammering because we 'knew' he'd flip town. What do you make of the three or so people after us also talking like they have an idea of how he'll flip?

PEDIT:
Hopkirk also was, is, and always will be scum.

[Twisted Advice]

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

482 is incorrect. Iago didn't say that he commits the Amish tell.

I actually did say that in a different post v.v

483 is because Bob was, is, and always will be scum. He needs the rope even though for some reason to one actually wants to commit to voting him. If a Bob wagon picked up, you can bet we'd be one of the first on it. How is that scummy?

Uh, we need to talk about this

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I did catch that, and it doesn't sit well with me. The post surrounding it was also not great. Is it really worth making an instawagon of though? Someone may need to walk me through the theory behind it- is it simply "town don't iso their predecessors"? Because I totally do that.

Iago

there's no defensive tinge to this post? come on, that's just disingenuous...

There isn't. I legitimately was trying to understand.

Can you explain what you meant by procrastinating the wagon. I wasn't actually here for that bit. I assume that Iago was waiting to check in with me but figured he should hammer then. Especially since the Bob wagon was able to be derailed so hard.

Procrastinating. Not voting obvscum mneumonic while taking potshots at grey (something to the effect of "he could be bussing" and a little bit of sticking up for khan).

none of that really matters though. what really sticks out is the hammer without a claim. i really want to know what ya'll's plan was going to be if mneumonic flipped town. as town, it would be foolish to hammer without a claim since you're essentially chaining together two mislynches and giving scum total plausible deniability for both. the lolhammer only really makes sense if you know what he's going to flip and you know you're not going to get much immediate backlash.

He wasn't obvscum for me until the end was nigh.

First of all, as you've just admitted, he was obvious scum.
Secondly, I don't think there would be any backlash at all if he flipped VT, and he was not playing like a town PR. Town PRs are confident when not under suspicion and they don't feel like their lynch is imminent when it appears to be because they know they have a strong claim.

anyone with (

good

) townreads on one of the following slots, please feel free to help me out:
SSK
Khan
Twisted

burn

hopkirk
notscience
Lords of the Unreal
metal sonic

If you think burn is scum, you are a bad mafia player or scum, and I would kindly suggest you take that read and GTFO.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

if i think burn is scum, i'm scum...?

wouldn't that also mean burn is scum because i would know he's scum...

/mindblown

Because scum are literally forced to bus

Oh wait no you're an idiot

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

so, i ask for good townreads and i get a casting call for "biggest asshole in the game" instead

awesome

Nice overreaction.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

...???

You were expecting me to say "yeah, you're right, I'm a giant asshole for insulting your intelligence (only if you're town) a grand total of once"???

[Twisted Advice]

looking at burn's ISO and nothing really sticks out at me. really, my issue with this slot is signal : noise ratio. the jbomber push is meh (and he doesn't even have his vote on it btw) and i don't really see him sticking his neck out for much of anything (twisted comments are the closest thing but even then...)

i can probably safely write this slot off as town just because the laws of probability on are on my side if i do that, but seriously "trust tell levels of town" is made up horseshit.

Does one have to stick one's neck out to be town? Does one have to make correct pushes to be town? No, one needs to have a town thought process, and it's bleeding from every orifice of every post he makes.

and yeah, if you're stooping to calling people stupid, you're being an asshole and should probably stop and maybe have some empathy for people who aren't as brilliant as you are

Funny, you didn't seem to care when Greyice was doing it to people other than you.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

obvious out-of-game stuff

There was? o.O

[Twisted Advice]

This ridiculous fight between my bird and Antihero is absurd. Really. We're both town and we don't need to fight like little kids and call names and bicker. Iago will quit engaging you in fights Antihero. Now please can we calm down and actually find the scum?

It turns out that there is housekeeping between Iago and myself with regard to our Bob read. I say that he is completely scum, yet Iago disagrees because Metal Sonic (who has mysteriously disappeared) seemed to show some weird out of game knowledge that really only the serial killer would have. That's his basis for the reasoning. Personally I would love an MS wagon as much as I love this slight almost Hopkirk wagon.

I would also be very happy with a MafiaSSK wagon. His iso is literally just votes. No reasoning. Nothing. Just naked votes. MafiaSSK, maybe play the game with us? Also kat you can prove your towniness at any point. It's really fine.

[Twisted Advice]

That said, I am (still) willing to drop Metal Sonic for today, and we can lynch him if it turns out we do indeed have a cop. But that's the main reason I don't think Bob is the SK. If we out our PRs (eventually) and no cop appears, fine.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

prod dodge

[Twisted Advice]

VOTE: ta

probably afraid mneu would sell them all out

This might be the most ridiculous post in this game. You really are determined to act as much like scum as you possibly can get away with, aren't you? Jafar is going to give me such an earful if you ever flip scum.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

*sigh*

It's been a while since I had to watch a town lynch one of my reasonably strong townreads. I haven't missed this bit.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Yes.

[Twisted Advice]

ta how sure would you be of ms's slip provided a cop is among us

Considering that I was initially prepared to vote him without having that information, I'm sure the answer is obvious.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

@KK:

...he was not playing like a town PR. Town PRs are confident when not under suspicion and they don't feel like their lynch is imminent when it appears to be because they know they have a strong claim.

I also expressed somewhere that I ruled out mason as well for similar reasons & lack of anyone defending him.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

ta how sure would you be of ms's slip provided a cop is among us

Considering that I was initially prepared to vote him without having that information, I'm sure the answer is obvious.

Iago

(If this is you softing cop though, don't.)

[Twisted Advice]

Will someone please explain our wagon to me? Like, how can the composition be this bad? Kublai Khan how are you not recoiling from the sheer scumminess on this wagon?

We have hopkirk scum who's basically OMGUS. Bob scum who's just the most anti town player ever. And now we have mafiassk whose ISO consists only of naked votes. In fact he's now wagoning with his last vote. Do you think bob is bussing us or something? How is this not setting anyone else off.

Kublai Khan, what do you think of your wagon mates?

[Twisted Advice]

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

I can dig an SSK wagon

VOTE: MafiaSSK

Why are you voting with your scum read?

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

No not you. MafiaSSK

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

What's with you and voting really townie players, Kublai Khan?

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

Lol @twisted.
Complains my vote (when i expressed suspicion of him first) is an omgus then follows up with an omgus on someone else.

Nope try again

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Except that it wasn't an OMGUS because I was voting him for a legitimate reason? That is, that he was voting Bob as scum and then decided to vote with Bob, who he never said wasn't scum. I don't care who the target of that vote is. The fact is that he was voting with a scum read. That is a very scummy action.

But you may continue being scum, Hopkirk.

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

Bad posts are a Metal Sonic tell, not a town tell.

Our vote is not on Hopkirk and is therefore subpar, but I suppose Jafar *is* the master around here.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Dunno how my other head feels about it, but I think he's my strongest townread.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I wasn't going to say anything because I figured Khan was trying to influence the scum's mindsets, but since it's being discussed anyway, the night game is pretty clearly not mafia vs. SK. At this point they will probably all try to shoot town at least for a while.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Well, at least notscience is town. His reads are bad, but he's town.

MS just wants to get rid of me because I'm onto him~

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Am I the only one who's noticed that Hopkirk's day 2 play has consisted entirely of shameless bandwagon hopping?

VOTE: Hopkirk, deal with it Jafar.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I love how Iago's message to me was to get on here so I can tell NS that he's being stupid. Apparently I'm more qualified than a parrot to do that. Who knew?

Also Iago said burn is his strongest townread? I like beast myself more but whatever. I have lots of town reads here.

I do love that monkey is scum because I am scum and I am scum because monkey is scum. Do you need me to explain why that's both arrogant and absurd, NS? Why is MafiaSSK lynchbait? Why is he not scum? And can you elaborate how monkey not voting me damns me? I'm not seeing it. Frankly I'm not seeing anything you're saying and you're rambling about having cracked the game. It's amusing and all, but it's also heavily illogical.

Also I'm super fine with a Hopkirk wagon. He needs the death.

[Twisted Advice]

Also Iago said burn is his strongest townread? I like beast myself more but whatever. I have lots of town reads here.

Fair enough, I kinda forgot about him for a moment.

I do love that monkey is scum because I am scum and I am scum because monkey is scum. Do you need me to explain why that's both arrogant and absurd, NS? Why is MafiaSSK lynchbait? Why is he not scum? And can you elaborate how monkey not voting me damns me? I'm not seeing it. Frankly I'm not seeing anything you're saying and you're rambling about having cracked the game. It's amusing and all, but it's also heavily illogical.

Also I'm super fine with a Hopkirk wagon. He needs the death.

This is why I love you.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

he's probably not gonna claim mason

its either VT or nothing

Encourage that premature hammer like you mean it [/hypocrite]

In all seriousness, a claim is not the reason we should be not lynching this. We should be not lynching this because it just isn't scum.

khan, would you mind doing me a solid and summarizing the case on monkey for me?

I am interested in this product and or service (hint: this will not be possible)

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Also, if there aren't at least two scum on this wagon I'll eat my hat.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

You can't do a complete reset. Forgetting about the scumminess of replaced players is, in my opinion, one of the biggest collective mistakes we make as a community. You can give a little leeway, but you shouldn't forget.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

[Twisted Advice]

Beast. The tags really are not a scumtell. Hopkirk is scum, but not for that reason.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

But KK, how can you disobey the mighty anti-amished tell?

Iago

P.S. AJ's slot is still town

[Twisted Advice]

AJ didn't know who he replaced, must not have isoed his predecessor

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

It wasn't. Read the thread. inb4 someone calls me your scumbuddy again.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Said the shining beacon of town brilliance.

[Twisted Advice]

AJ didn't know who he replaced, must not have isoed his predecessor

That's easily faked. Especially since he technically had enough time to read everything and not knowing who one's predecessor is a little weird.

Still.

UNVOTE: Aj The Epic

I wasn't serious >.<

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Monkey

Righto.

I did this exact same thing as scum in the other game! It is really hard to not purposely forget to type vote when using bold tags.

Actually i do this rather a lot. Look at my previous games to see i screw tags up quite a lot.

Anyone who played the last game should be jumping on the Hopkirk wagon right this second. We can deal with Monkey tomorrow.

Am I the only one who's noticed that Hopkirk's day 2 play has consisted entirely of shameless bandwagon hopping?

VOTE: Hopkirk, deal with it Jafar.

Iago

Between 3-4 people i said i suspected day one.
No point having a vote doing nothing is there?

VOTE: Monkey
L-1
When typing that i wrote VOTE: monkey [/b]

"When making my vote i typed

Monkey then"
Should read "When making my vote i typed

Monkey[//vote] then"

You say you wrote it two seperate ways when you caught the mistake which way was it? Also, i had to double // the end vote tag so it actually showed up.

You can't keep your story straight Hopkirk.

I agree with the aforementioned issue with consistency and endorse Iago's vote on scum Hopkirk.

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

Actually I also think that might be in order. We were only holding off (well I was anyway, Jafar seemed to have the right of this one) on lords and ssk on the assumption they were masons. I can't do tags on this stupid phone though.

[Twisted Advice]

oh wait yes I can it's just a huge pain

VOTE: lords of the unreal

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I can answer both those questions, it's because both of them have been lurking as though there were a nobel prize for it

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Fuck. Nat's hydra are scum aren't they. This is just unfortunate.

VOTE: LotU

......................................uh.

Ah l1 i think.

Mafia roleblocker.

Nice fucking job, bro.

Kindly stay out of any game I /in and I'll do the same for you, thanks.

Ugh.

Anyway, feel free to lynch us and promptly kill the scum swinging at the low-hanging fruit tomorrow.

Alternatively, lynch scum today.

VOTE: Khan

Your inability to acknowledge that you are even remotely scummy right now bothers me a good deal.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I would say it was silly that one moment you think the predecessor was scummy and the next muffin is probably town, but I agree with the conclusion seeing as burn was ridiculously town, so instead I'll only point it out in a passive-aggressive manner.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

nowhere near finished reading. chillax a bit on the votes for a day or so

^Scum.

I actually sorta agree. However, there is the fact that burn was pretty towny. I don't know whether we should forget about this or not..

I did have a really town read on burn_209.

But really, how many town players replace into a 50+page game and say "Hold on folks. I want to read everything before going to night" when they could potentially get night-killed and won't have to read anything?

Maybe the kind who are concerned they will be nightkilled and want to get their thoughts out first? Funny, I can almost imagine a strong player feeling that way!

Please don't end the day, the slot is obvtown and now has a strong player in it, so I too would like to make sure it gets to play. If I was voting the leading wagon, I would unvote, but I'm not.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

No.

You should unvote.

[Twisted Advice]

L-1

Don't hammer

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Twisted Advice]

No she didn't, pay attention. It was a very unconvincing fake.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

What do you mean? you said l-1 and then she voted

She was already on the wagon

[Twisted Advice]

Oh, I'm stupid. Mmk.

[Twisted Advice]

Can we just end the day so I don't feel pressured to post content I can't reliably generate without time to read in silence?

Oh please. You could read right now if you wanted to.

Bankable deadlines
Let's
Hammer

I'm still hoping to get more from Muffin before he probably dies tonight.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Because your slot is pretty town and scum are probably scared of you as they should be. I expected your predecessor to die last night tbh.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I almost want to call it town for asking to die so desperately and not selfhammering... but not quite.

Still intentionally dragging day out.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

It's pretty clearly a VT/scum claim

[Twisted Advice]

This seems like an awfully curious game to get upset about considering that you displayed no evidence of caring about it for the first 54 pages.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I don't think it's intended to mean "policy lynch MafiaSSK for being MafiaSSK" so much as "policy lynch MafiaSSK for lurking".

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

UNVOTE:

I don't see it, but Muffin vouching for LOTU for now is enough for me to not consider them a viable option today. We should lynch SSK or Aj. I don't especially feel like either of them is scum, but POE makes them both good lynches.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I'm finding Cho scummier with every post.

Me too.

THis game is seriously dragging with very little vote movement.

We need a replacement for Aj the Epic.

Alternatively, we could just lynch Aj the Epic.

Seriously, who here objects to lynching Aj the Epic?

I don't!

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Well I have been waiting to see if MafiaSSK would become useful but he isn't. Since Iago and I are in agreement that he is scum, I declare my intent to hammer.

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

Eh, screw it, I'm done with this day

VOTE: SSK

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Nice bob kill I like it


Also twisted advice is likely town I guess

vote unreal

Khan is not sk either

These might be breadcrumbs. 1270 could be useful for speculating about his target last night but not that useful.

Also, I did a little bit of rereading last night, and I don't think I've been giving notscience enough credit. I'd rather look into LOTU/Lemni today, as they didn't particularly come out looking better than I expected.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Why?

[Twisted Advice]

Nice bob kill I like it


Also twisted advice is likely town I guess

vote unreal

Khan is not sk either

These might be breadcrumbs. 1270 could be useful for speculating about his target last night but not that useful.

Also, I did a little bit of rereading last night, and I don't think I've been giving notscience enough credit. I'd rather look into LOTU/Lemni today, as they didn't particularly come out looking better than I expected.

Iago

Did no one else read this post?

Lemni needs to claim stat, I will tunnel the slot forever if it doesn't claim in its next post.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Pretty sure cop should claim if alive otherwise assuming Metal Sonic blocked one of the kills.

What on earth do these two things have to do with each other?

And yes, KK, that's all I was saying. Anyone's guess is as good as mine about last night though, tragically.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Ah, I see what you're saying. The possible non-cop power roles could both be alternative explanations for the lack of kill, but if there's a cop nothing else can explain it. We could potentially just run on the assumption that one of MS' scumspects is indeed scum until something surfaces to contradict that assumption, though.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Flip ssk so at least we can narrow down the Poe to lotr or monkey if necessary

Too simplistic of me?

VOTE: Lem

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

...yeah, so who thinks this slot is scum?^

I do, I do

I have no idea why we're voting TV instead when this is posting and not claiming despite being asked to by multiple players

Stall more~

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

That was an awfully silly and contrived way to claim

[Twisted Advice]

I am confbiasing, though.

[Twisted Advice]

On the plus side I am finally starting to develop an actual townread on LoTU.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Hiya. We're here.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Uh uh. Nope.

Alright, made a decision. I'm going to be stickin' to the hydra. I'll wait til Peng comes back because I'd still love to have someone to bounce ideas/reads off to get them to be more accurate.

Why did any of this need saying, and why was it a decision at all?

PA had a town-read on the AJ slot, but me not so much. At this point I'm giving time for Lemi to catch up, but as of right now I'm null on the slot waiting for some content to appear.

Even though she doesn't seem terribly interested in catching up or doing anything at all...?

Also MS did a brilliant job on helping to determine who is likely not a SK. KK and TA are not the SK, but could still be mafia.

Cheerleading the dead town PR rubs me the wrong way. Also, you ultimately suggest Anti could be mafia in this post for little reason, even though this is the only place you mention us. Why aren't we under consideration?

I still don't like Cho. My townread I had on ns went stale and before ns got replaced I was slighty leaning scum. Cho hasn't done anything to move herself from the scummy scale of my list.

You had a townread on ns... and I understand reads going stale like back to null, but I don't think reads normally decay all the way to scum to the point where you'd actually say you're leaning scum. And slightly leaning scum is the best you've got? You're voting someone for posting but not particularly well but giving Lemni a pass for the same thing?

Only thing that bothers me about Anti is the fact I started pushing Cho-Scum and now this day phrase he votes our hydra due to a wiki page. Something feels off.

A) Cho is now "Cho-Scum" despite the fact that she was a lean at worst two lines ago.
B) This is just not a good reason to ultimately throw Anti in your suspect pool.

VOTE: Cho

Last but not least, this vote is just incorrect!

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

More votes on Lemni or Turkish please, I will lynch either of them.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I found the 2 word case on TV pretty compelling.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Above 2 posts are repulsively bad. Just... ew.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Damn it, I was hoping that could eventually clear someone I didn't already think was town

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Sure thing.

Cho - town, believe it or not
Titus - null
Lords of the Unreal - town
Turkish Van - scum?
Antihero - mason
Kublai Khan - town?
Lemniscate - scum
jbomber732 - town
zMuffinMan - town

That's just from me, Jafar seems to be taking an extended vacation or something. I might bother him at some point.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Dunno what Titus is on about.

I'm just waiting for Lemniscate to be lynched.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Dunno what Titus is on about.

I'm just waiting for Lemniscate to be lynched.

Iago

Your position on the wagon is an ideal bus vote. Many of the other day 1 posters are dead. No one wanted to engage when I suggested we talk about you. So I voted you. No engagement. So fuck yeah, my gut screams you are scum.

So just to summarize, we're scum because...

-we were pretty town early on
-we hammered scum
-no one thinks discussing us being scum is worth your time (if we were scum there would only be one player incentivized to avoid this anyway, so how is this anything?)
-we're not engaged at a time when literally no one is engaged including you

Am I getting that right?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Point 1, would require me to actually read the thread. I want interactions before I do.
Point 2, according to the mod's VCA you were in the middle of the wagon.
Point 3, scum don't like to talk about their buddies, so yeah this sends a flag, especially with a barebones vote which I rarely do.
Point 4, is saying no one reacted to my weaker vote. No one put a position on you. It had nothing to do with your activity level.

-high volume posters, obvtownies, whatever you want to call us
-which vca would that be? The one where we hammered, or the ones where we were parked on Bob all day?

mnemonicdevice (10) - GreyICE, Turkish Van, jbomber732, Antihero, Lords of the Unreal, beastcharizard, MonkeyMan576, MafiaSSK, Hopkirk, Twisted Advice

-There are only 2 scum that are on a team together.
-Okay, and at most one of those non reacting players is scum with us. So obviously, there were townies who didn't react to your vote. Gee, maybe it's because it was silly and didn't deserve a reaction!

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

You do realize...we're voting for a townie in that vc....right?

[Twisted Advice]

Did you just call us an SK for lynching someone? I'll have you know we're clear of being the SK per having been roleblocked.

[Twisted Advice]

How the fuck do you have a gut read on us if you haven't even read our posts?

[Twisted Advice]

You just changed your story.

Your position on the wagon is an ideal bus vote.

-we hammered scum

Point 2, according to the mod's VCA you were in the middle of the wagon.

I have just proved your initial point wrong. We were not in the middle of the wagon. Now you're somehow trying to twist that so that your initial point still stands? Because it definitely doesn't. You obviously did not realize what was going on when you initially accused us of bussing, so why are you now pretending otherwise?

[Twisted Advice]

*titus

...
shit...

There's a problem with me being town?

Who all is eliminated as being the SK?

Us and KK

[Twisted Advice]

I want to lynch you because you're scum, and not for any other reason.

Never said I couldn't be scum based on that. You are making that up.

I also want to lynch Turkish, because they are also scum.

[Twisted Advice]

The point is, no one who has actually read the thread thinks we're scum. And yet you're pushing us as scum for reasons I've already demonstrated are utter shit, and now for... pointing out that we were roleblocked? Forgetting the SK has a strongman?

You're not allowed to act this certain when you haven't even read anything and are also wrong. It can't be a coincidence that two of the three scummiest players in the game are pushing us right now though!

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Titus, if your points weren't shit, you wouldn't have had to pretend this post never happened-

You just changed your story.

Your position on the wagon is an ideal bus vote.

-we hammered scum

Point 2, according to the mod's VCA you were in the middle of the wagon.

I have just proved your initial point wrong. We were not in the middle of the wagon. Now you're somehow trying to twist that so that your initial point still stands? Because it definitely doesn't. You obviously did not realize what was going on when you initially accused us of bussing, so why are you now pretending otherwise?

[Twisted Advice]

I am starting to believe TV is more likely to flip scum than Lemni, but I want to lynch the hell out of both of them. Titus I need more time to work out, because I'd be voting most players if they pulled this shit, but I've played with Titus before.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Titus, if your points weren't shit, you wouldn't have had to pretend this post never happened-

You just changed your story.

Your position on the wagon is an ideal bus vote.

-we hammered scum

Point 2, according to the mod's VCA you were in the middle of the wagon.

I have just proved your initial point wrong. We were not in the middle of the wagon. Now you're somehow trying to twist that so that your initial point still stands? Because it definitely doesn't. You obviously did not realize what was going on when you initially accused us of bussing, so why are you now pretending otherwise?

You bussed. You told me I cannot do something. Shut up scum. I am getting reads now.

What the fuck is this shit?

Anti, please help me believe this can possibly town, I am struggling. Who reacts to their case being demolished with "shut up, fuck you"?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Okay... have you considered using... whatever your actual point is...???

I see you've decided to emulate your slot's past behavior and crank it up to 11 though. Which is really awesome.

Is this the part where I point out that trolling is an SK tell?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

honesty time! was anyone going to start suspecting TV had i not said a damn word at the beginning of the day?

Probably not!

[Twisted Advice]

This is probably the shittiest scum gambit I have ever seen

[Twisted Advice]

Gambit done. I'm sorry for the cocky ass attitude.

I wanted to get under the skin of active players to see their reactions. The case on TA was total shit when I was pushing it. I pushed it to see his alignment.

Of course, his hypersensitivity indicates he is scum/SK. He basically accuses my deliberately antagonistic personality of being a scum tell when most sensible players would see it as town. That is because he was

afraid I'd get my shit together

. He says I'm scum, yet doesn't vote for me. Why?

KK is scum because that push on Mala was shitty as all get out. Scum because someone read the rules. That's bullshit and KK is searching for justifications.

I'm also fine with TV. I was just trying to get under Anti-Hero's skin and crumb what I was doing at the same time.

The gamestate is seriously fucked up here. We got two scum N1 and then nothing. That told me scum infiltrated the town blocks and people needed to quit being complacent. So I didn't read the game, made shit up and said stuff solely to provoke people.

So you pushed a case that was total shit.
I say it's total shit.
That makes me scum.
Lol, next.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Yeah, I've never seen town react to anything at all, that makes so much sense! And if I was town, of course, my first reaction to a shitty case would be...to... not do anything.... right...

We'll see how necessary I/we feel that is or isn't. But you're not getting lynched today, so it's not that relevant.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I agree with the above poster, including, in all likelihood, in regards to his alignment.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Of course he's trying to fucking discredit you.

A) You are Titus, and as such should hardly be taken at face value anyway
B) You are trying to steer the town in a stupid direction
C) You just discredited your own damn self, might as well help it along since you deserve it.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

^9/10 would sheep

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Excuses, excuses. I'm barely a hydra.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

You do realize this is a semi open game, yes?

~The Royal Vizier

[Twisted Advice]

You do realize this is a semi open game, yes?

~The Royal Vizier

Yup all roles are in the first post.

What's wrong with hypersensitivity and scum pushing shitty lynches for shitty reasons? Those are good reasons. I don't need to make a 40 page wall to reach the same conclusion. I can go back and cherry pick scummy moments. Or I can be short and sweet. Everyone would prefer the latter.

Scum pushing shitty lynches for shitty reasons... like you?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

Maybe that's because you decided to suspect the town leaders! Fancy that. If being wrong was a scumtell I'd be in deep trouble across all my games and so would you.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

We all should read and examine the fine print of the roles

tbh i interpreted that as kk saying, "why is mala doing that right now?" rather than criticising someone for reading the setup

Town should

always

be doing that. Setup cracking is the duty of everyone, regardless of alignment. Your comment is a distinction without a difference.

@KK - Preemptive discredit noted.

Discrediting you is a town tell

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

"Tomorrow I'm claiming cop"? Who the hell says that?

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

It doesn't make sense to try to discuss this today, so we should probably just hold off.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

My reads this game were pretty bad. Sorry.

Iago

[Twisted Advice]

I don't think I've ever had a townread that strong before that was wrong.

[Twisted Advice]

I would say I should have listened to my other head more, as his reads were better, but he also stopped helping, so that's not really my fault

[Twisted Advice]

Oh yeah, I can check who your heads are now. I should do that when I get home.

Rude