Mafia 13 - Game over!

[Cadmium]

Yay, another revived thread!

So, do we have to start over with the voting? My vote stays where it is.

Vote: Pooky

.

[Cadmium]

Seriously though, is Mathcam allowed to replace someone in a game where he already died or is it Mathcam

2

who is now competing.

Mathcam

2

is the same person as Mathcam. Whether or not you are allowed to replace someone in a game where you already died in before, depends on what your previous role was. Mathcam was a townie, so he didn't know anything more than we do. But maybe he does now.

[Cadmium]

This is a difficult situation. Can we hold the replacements responsible for the actions by their predessecors? On first thought, I think we can't. The replacements don't know why their predessecors did certain things. Maybe they can guess it, but they don't know for sure. So it's going to be difficult for them to defend themselves against things they didn't even do.

On the other hand, it's not just the combination of the player and his/her actions that we vote for. We have to remember that the roles given to the predessecors might have a connection with the an action done by them as well. Both the roles and the actions remain the same, so we can't completely ignore all the things the predessecors did.

But maybe I'm completely off here. Any other thoughts?

[Cadmium]

Yes, you assumed right there, Corsato. But remember, assumption is the mother of all f*ck-ups. It's a good thing my mom isn't called assumption .

And for the lazy bum :

If NEHI is telling the truth, than the SK will do anything (s)he can to get him lynched or killed. And why waste a night kill if it's possible to lynch? With that in mind, both Pooky and Thrawn are potential SK's. They jumped on NEHI's bandwagon right after his claim.

Out of those two, Pooky seems must suspicious to me. (S)he (don't you just love these gender thingies ) got all defensive after Discer randomly votes for him/her:

unvote admiral00thrawn

vote discer

Reason: Thrawn woke up and posted(which is good)
Discer is using crap logic to vote me (which is bad)

After that, (s)he OMGUS-votes NEHI:

OMGUS!

vote nehi

This was the 8th vote for NEHI and this vote was after his claim to be FBI agent. Plus I could not find anything bad that NEHI did to him/her, so why the OMGUS? Maybe he sucks because he can find the SK ?

So, with that said,

vote: Pooky

[Cadmium]

Unofficial Votecount:

5 Leonidas2 (Coolbot, Kerplunk, Mlaker , Mole , Shadyforce)
4 Mlaker (Fletcher, Mathcam2, Dragon Slayer, NEHI)
3 Mathcam2 (Cadmium, Electra, Discer)
1 Quailman (DP)
1 DP (Quailman)
1 Kerplunk (Leonidas)

with 22 players able to vote, 11 to lynch.

I continue to think that mlaker is the most suspicious, and frankly, that Leonidas is not at all.

Since mathcam has a good chance of being a useful pro-town role, I suggest we vote for Leo to get lynched.

First of all, like NEHI pointed out, you think that lynching the person who is defended by someone you believe has a good chance of being a useful pro-town role is the most logical thing to do here?

Secondly, I do not get at all why you think mathcam has a good chance of being pro-town and usefull. Did you get all that information only from his defense on Leo? To me, this means exactly nothing (yet).

So yeah,

FOS: shadyforce

For now, my vote stays where it is. If things don't move along, I'll switch. Come on, people. This is just the first day (and maybe even the longest I've seen yet).

[Cadmium]

Corsato, could we have an official vote tally? Also, about the deadline, is that time you gave us CET?

Okay, back to the game.

1. We have less than two days to lynch someone.
   
2. At the moment, we're not getting anywhere at all.

So, I'll follow the rest:

unvote: mathcam/Pooky

vote: mlaker

That's eight votes out of eleven if I counted correctly. Let's hear something from him.

[Cadmium]

I find it interesting that mlaker claimed cowardly townie and that he had hidden in Stewie's house, and Stewie had not been voting for him. How convenient. Then Stewie makes no mention of this fact, and votes for someone else (the Shadyforce bandwagon).

If I understand this correctly, you think it's not a coincidence that mlaker chose Stewie's house for hiding (or making us believe this) and that Stewie never voted for him. Hmm, there could be a connection. What's bothering me too is the fact that Corsato called both Mathcam and Leonidas just townies (not cowardly townies). And I don't think that they would have been a replacement if they were cowardly townies (unless they have the same role now). More to think about .

I think I'll leave my vote on mlaker for now. This seems somewhat more suspicious to me than the Shadyforce happening.

[Cadmium]

Yes, both Kerplunk and Shadyforce unvoted Leonidas, but mlaker voted for him a while ago and never unvoted after that. So, I say we ask for a new vote count and see what's going on here.

Leonidas, townie, killed by mafia.
Macros, Berlucci mafia, killed and canned by a Serial Killer.
Mathcam, townie, killed by an assassin.

Both Leonidas and Mathcam are refered to as townie, nothing more, nothing less. The post I took the quote from, is the only one that says Mathcam was a townie. The first two posts of this thread don't mention Mathcam's role at all. More weird stuff.

[Cadmium]

Okay, I was just thinking.

If

mlaker is telling the truth, then there probably are more players with the same role. What if mlaker goes to Stewie again this night (because we already know he's innocent) and the doc (there must be at least one) protects Stewie, than all the other cowardly townies can go to Stewie too. This will make it really hard for the mafia to kill someone.

There probably are pro's and con's to this idea, and I haven't thought it through yet, but I wanted to throw it in the group.

[Cadmium]

That's the first plan I came up with. But we have to be really carefull. It'll work if he's telling the truth. But what if he's lying? Then we'll think people are innocent while they might be mafia plus we lose a protection every night.

If mlaker is the only one with this role, my plan is worthless. But the first time I saw (and had) this role, in Trouble in Haiti, I believe every townie had the opportunity to hide if they wanted to.

[Cadmium]

I was refering to Shadyforce's post.

[Cadmium]

Like Discer, I don't want to vote for Shadyforce. He's giving his thoughts on things. Maybe not every idea seems logical, but he did make some good points. Remember that he came up with the idea to use mlaker as an investigator. Doesn't seem to scummy to me. I don't think the mafia would have proposed such an idea. So I think there might be some mafia on his bandwagon to get him lynched.

Looking at everyone on this bandwagon, Dragon Phoenix and Electra seem most suspicious to me. These are the only posts they've made so far:

OMGUS vote Quailman

*what mole said*

unvote Quailman, vote mlaker

For the same reasons as the posters before me:

unvote mlaker, vote Shadyforce

Well, I shall perform the amazing act of

vote: mathcam-ing

. And I will perform the amazing action of THINKING in a few days.

Wow, am I still voting for mathcam?

unvote:mathcam

vote:shady force, for gallons of crap logic

No input at all. Just hopping on bandwagons. I know this doesn't have to mean they're mafia, but it's the best thing I can come up with at this moment. Since I know that he usually plays like this, I'll just

FOS: DP

. But Electra is much more active in other games.

Unvote mlaker, vote Electra

[Cadmium]

Unofficial votecount:

7 Shadyforce (Coolbot, Darkblade, Jalyn, Leonidas2, Mathcam2, Mlaker, Stewie)
1 Mlaker (Nehi)
1 DP (Quailman)
1 Electra (Cadmium)
1 Leonidas (Shadyforce)

Will you die if the person your hiding with is targeted for murder or actually murdered?

Why did you fail to answer this question every time, mlaker? You didn't even mention it. If you know the answer to this, we can decide what you should do tonight. And we don't have that long anymore.

I'm all out of ideas right now. If anyone can find anything suspicious, I'd be happy to join the bandwagon. That's a lot better than no lynch at all.

[Cadmium]

Unvote: Electra
Vote: Jalyn

Right now, both shadyforce and Jalyn have 5 votes. This means noone will be lynched (we need half of the majority).

Will you die if the person your hiding with is targeted for murder or actually murdered?

Why did you fail to answer this question every time, mlaker? You didn't even mention it. If you know the answer to this, we can decide what you should do tonight. And we don't have that long anymore.

I thought I answered that question.If the person I'm hididng with is targeted I die too.If I didn't I think it was kind of easy to understand from my posts.

I think we might have confirmed shady's role so any suggestions on who to hide with?If all fails I'm hiding with Stewie.So shady or other doc could you comply?

I'm confused now. You just told us that if the person you're hiding with is targeted, you will die. So then why would you tell your choice in public? The mafia will know your hiding place so they can kill you if they want to. Even if a doc protects your host, you will get it anyway, since he was targeted.

I think you didn't understand the question. I'll rephrase it. Will you only die if your host dies too or will you die whenever someone targets your host (even if he has doc protection fi)? You probably don't know the answer to this one and it's too late for you to ask the mod now. So I say we take the chance and asume you only die when your host dies. Since mole volunteered, why don't you hide with him? Shadyforce can protect mole and the other doc (let's hope there is one) can protect shadyforce.

[Cadmium]

Didn't the Mod say that in a tie both players are lynched? Interesting you created a tie. Interesting............

Deadline lynching rules:
The person with the most votes gets lynched, if he has more then 50% of the required amount. In the event of a tie, it's bye bye to both of them.

This indicates to me, that with the situation I created (yes, a tie), there would be no lynch today like I said in my previous post. Which means there have to be at least two other players each voting for one of the two bandwagons before two people will be lynched. But discer already finds it interesting ... hmm, interesting.

We won't be able to use him as a cop, because he bases his results on whether he survives the night, and he's guaranteed to do so whether he visits a mafia or not.

I don't think that mlaker will survive when visiting mafia and being protected by a doc. I think the doc will protect his house, but he won't be there, so there's really nothing left to protect. And since he has to visit someone every night, it'll be completely useless to protect him (read his house).

[Cadmium]

Or it must be revived within the next 30 minutes...

Hallelujah - back up with nothing missing.

[Cadmium]

ROTFPIMP .

So, mlaker, what were you up to last night? Did you visit Fletcher?

[Cadmium]

Oops, I missed that they die when hiding with a mafia.

Are you serious? This is the one essential thing about the cowardly townies that we've been discussing for days. If you missed that, it means you haven't payed any attention to the other posts at all. Here are some quotes from yesterday only:

If he's telling the truth, he's going to hide with Mafia and die eventually.

Send him to the houses of suspicious people - if he doesn't die, and the person he allegedly visited turns out to be mafia, then we have ourselves a scum.

Yes, but your plan still implies that the docs should protect his host for the night (since, if he's telling the truth, the mafia could kill two birds with one stone).

picking someone to hide with each night and if the next morning mlaker's dead but the home-owner is not, then they're mafia.

- When a cop comes out, mlaker sleeps with him (or pretends to).
-> the cop can be protected by docs, and docs need not fear the 'one stone two birds' dilemma.
-> once the docs are dead, well, no matter how you look at it, the mafia is bound to kill the cop, and also to kill two birds with one stone if mlaker is innocent.

If he dies, and our unlucky homeowner doesn't, we've caught ourselves a scum.
.
.
.
If mlaker is telling the truth, hands us lots of innocents, and dies heroically to point us to a mafia as well.

3) Send a possible innocent to his grave to prove what we already know.

1) mlaker checks someone, and survives

Vote: Coolbot

If you are a hider (and you're neither mlaker or fletcher):
hide in the house of the guy just after you on the list (circling back to the top if necessary), and proceed moving down the list, night after night.

This is a good plan on first sight. But it might help the mafia too. If the mafia kills person X next night, and they see (s)he's the only one that died, they know for a fact that person X-1 is not a cowardly townie and will be home the next night (with the chance of person X-3 being there too). Maybe something for the doc's to keep in mind. In short, maybe we should stick to this plan, but it's not that the mafia won't know anything this way.

[Cadmium]

FOS: Darkblade, Mikehart, Kerplunk and Polotet

They haven't posted yet this day.

Also, NEHI, I was wondering what has happened to your role now that the Serial Killer was killed last night. Do you know this?

[Cadmium]

It

does

assume that Corsato will give us the precise name of the role.

And that's exactly why it probably won't work. We cannot risk assuming this and then lynching the wrong person.

Macros, Berlucci mafia, killed and canned by a Serial Killer
.
.
.
DP/PBuG, member of the mafia, killed by a serial killer.

Two different role names from two people in the same group (I think).

[Cadmium]

For those hiders that we currently don't know about, should they use their username instead?

This is the exact idea that Leonidas had. The only difference is that it will be more work for the mafia to get info (but they will know as much).

And that assumes that the mod says the dead person had the ability to hide.

Exactly, there are already three townies dead. But we don't know for sure if they were normal townies or not. If the mod doesn't mention the "cowardly" part, we tried everything to get exactly nothing.

I don't know how we deal with names dropping of the list, screwing up the sequence.

If we want to continue with any of the plans, this has to be discussed too. Otherwise people might do different things and we won't be able to retreive any info.

[Cadmium]

Also, I think we should adopt the convention that you always skip over dead people when counting. This includes whoever's lynched today.

And what if they have to visit one of the people that are already checked? Or when they end up with themselves when counting? The best thing to do is making a new list every day, taking of the dead and checked players and themselves. I think that should do it.

[Cadmium]

I'll go with that.

Vote: Darkblade

Although I think he's probably busy modding at the moment. He asked to be replaced in London Mafia too. I'll unvote as soon as we hear from him.

[Cadmium]

First of all, DP was not a Serial Killer, he was a member of the mafia.

And secondly, I did not hope it would result in a no lynch. I created a tie in order to get some info. A lot of times mafia can be found by looking at voting patterns. There was a fair chance that the final vote would come from a mafia member. And, surprise, surprise, it did.

[Cadmium]

sorry if I didn't see any clever traps for the mafia in that post.

Well, I suppose that only means it worked .

::is still waiting for Darkblade to show up::

[Cadmium]

So Mlaker said that he would visit Kerplunk and now he's dead? That's a no-brainer really.

Vote: Kerplunk

About his role claim. Like others pointed out, it's not likely at all for a cop to get any info on his sanity/competence. And what's that stuff about shooting Mlaker in his drunkeness? Sounds like something made-up to explain the death of Mlaker.

OTOH, if he was targeted by the Mafia last night, but was out drinking, he may not have been home when the Mafia showed up, so they would just have killed whoever was hiding in his house. Not bloody likely, but I thought I'd mention it.

If you look at the OP, you will see that the mafia killed Shadyforce. So there's no possible way that Kerplunk was targeted by them. Furthermore, if the killing was done by someone known to us, the OP would have read "killed by (fill in name here)" instead of "killed by ???".

And do not waste a hider's life on CoolBot tonight. Just lynch him tomorrow, okay?

I figured I'd quote this one more time. It's best to lynch CoolBot tomorrow and find out whether Quailman was telling the truth or not. This way we don't lose another cowardly townie for nothing. If Quailman's not telling the truth, we simply lynch him the next day.

[Cadmium]

I didn't kill anyone. The mafia could have targeted Quailman simply as a way of framing me. Quailman was apparently insane and accused me without knowing it. I asked fletcher to hide with to confirm my innocence. He seemed to have done that.

The mafia targeted Quailman simply because any respectable mafiascum player could figure out that he was a cop. And if you're mafia and find the cop, you kill him.

Quailman could never have been insane. He voted for DP on the first day and kept his vote there for almost the entire day. This can mean only one thing: He investigated DP and found him to be guilty. At that point he didn't know his sanity. I'm sure that he targeted someone the next night to find this out (think Mlaker for instance). He would never have accused you like that without being sure about his sanity.

FOS: Coolbot

. I'm going to do some re-reading before I vote.

[Cadmium]

On the other side, Fletcher's role is NOT confirmed - he came out with it after mlaker revealed, and we don't even have total confirmation on mlaker's role.

We do know that mlaker was killed by "???" and that he was a townie. He said that he would hide with Kerplunk and he died. Kerplunk turned out to be mafia. I know it's not

total

confirmation but then again, what is totally confirmed in a mafia game? I think it's save to say that mlaker was telling the truth. This gives us the problem that Fletcher was confirmed by mlaker. He hid with Fletcher the second night and didn't die.

I still don't know what to do with this. Any other views on this matter?

[Cadmium]

I don't see what the big problem here is. This is what happened:
1) mlaker hid with kerpunk (mafia); he died
2) fletcher hid with me; he did not die.

Yep, that's what happened. But you know what's the difference between the first and the second event? The death of the hider. Mlaker died and we could see that he was telling the truth. He was a townie. Can't say the same thing about Fletcher. And for this exact same reason, I tend to believe Quailman over Fletcher too.

Quailman accused me, but without explaining why. We know he's a cop, so he must've investigated me. Of course, he's dead now, so we can't here his arguement on why he was so sure his investigations were accurate.

Let me quote some of Quailman's posts:

Well, I will still vote for CoolBot. Hiders aren't the only way to find scum, you know.

When I read this post, I immediately knew he was "claiming" cop. What more explanation could you need?

Are we convinced that Kerplunk is scum? Cool Bot is, just as Dragon Phoenix was.

This is the part where we can find his arguement on why he was so sure his investigations were accurate. He found DP to be scum, so he can't be insane or naive. Which leaves sane or paranoid. I think everyone will agree that he must have found an innocent the second night. Otherwise he would

never

have claimed to be a cop who found Coolbot to be guilty. That's why he was convinced you're scum.

So what does Cadium & mathcam do? Assume he

must

be sane, simply because he didn't say otherwise before he died.

As explained above, the

only

assumption we make, is that Quailman would never have pointed in your direction if he wouldn't have known whether he was sane or paranoid. And I can hardly call that an assumption. Quailman is experienced enough to know this. If you disagree with this, please tell me what possible reason Quailman could have had.

All of this leaves us with a sane cop pointing in your direction and a confirmed innocent clearing you.

I believe coolbot much more, but there's still the posibility that he's in some kind of evil cult, so fletcher didn't die because coolbot couldn't kill.

I was more thinking in the lines of mafia recruiting Fletcher or CoolBot not being home when Fletcher visited (out to kill or something).

Maybe qualman had, for example, 80% of getting the right result, and 20% of getting the opposite.

I don't believe Corsato would put a "random" cop in this game. You only do this when there are different kind of cops in a game. In his deathscene, he wrote the following:

He was this town's cop.

Now, a mod would never write something like this in a deathscene if there are more cops in the game. I'm not saying there can't be a deputy or something, but I'm pretty sure Quailman was this town's only cop and not a random one.

Or maybe we are just imagining that quailman investigated coolbot and he just though he was suspicious by voting/posting patters.

I think I've already answered this in the beginning of this post.

Wow, I think I just convinced myself .

Vote: CoolBot

[Cadmium]

Cadmium, why do you ignore what a living town member, fletcher, has to say over what you are reading into Quailman's posts?

I can't speak for Cadmium, but I, while Im not ignoring what Fletcher says, think Quailman is the source more likely to be right. I have explained my reasoning for that. And as far as your wording of "what you are reading into" his posts, I find it ridiculous that you suggest those posts could be interpreted any differently. Go ahead and make-believe he meant differently but you're not convincing me.

Well, it looks like you just

did

speak for me .

Further, you assumption that Quailman was the only investigative role is suspect. Let's review what Corsator said about it:

He was this town's cop.

From this statement, there's two possiblities of other investigators:
1) A cop from a different town. Maybe a FBI agent, or simply a visting cop. I admit it's not likely, but it can't be discounted.
2) A non-cop investigator. This is pretty likely, in my estimation. Nearly all games I've played have them. Examples include, but not limited to, are bartender, reporter, researcher, etc.

So, you're idea that Quailman cannot possibly be paranoid, insane, or random really doesn't hold up, as there is a good chance there are other investigater out there. This doesn't even include the cowardly townie role that we know about.

This is just twisting my words. I never implied that Quailman was the only investigative role. I only said that I think it's likely that Quailman was the only

cop

in the town and therefor likely to be not a random one.

But I do not think Coolbot is mafia because I checked my role and it says that if I hide with mafia I will die

Yeah, but it doesn't say anything about mafia not being home or something like that, does it? I remember the "hiders" in DP's Trouble in Haiti. For example, both player x and y are "hiders". Player x decides to hide with player y, but player y is somewhere else that night. If the mafia decides to kill player y, they will kill player x instead. I think it works the same way here. If CoolBot was not home and Fletcher hid with him, then there was noone around to kill Fletcher. So he survives. Speaking of which:

I'm a Sucessful Townie. I own a beach house that I can stay at during the night, leaving me safe from night kills. The only catch is I have to use vacation days. I started with one and gain one every three days. I used one last night because of Quailman's vote; I wasn't quite sure what he was getting at so I though it was prudent to use one.

Basically, this claim tells us that Fletcher's result is useless. If you weren't home last night, Fletcher was alone in your house. But I don't think you were at a beach house, I think you were out killing.

All the facts are pointing in your direction. Plus, something we didn't mention before, you never jumped on the Kerplunk bandwagon yesterday. I'm keeping my vote. I'm sorry if you're innocent but I'm sure that if we switched places, you would have done the exact same thing. It's the most logical thing to do.

[Cadmium]

Please explain again what evidence is against Coolbot cause it seems to me that he has a good explaination for what happend.

Let me ask you one question. If CoolBot's innocent, why does he need an explanation for Fletcher still being alive? He made you believe he has a good explanation for this, but he didn't even have to explain, did he? The only explanation we need from him is why Quailman, a confirmed cop who was either sane or random (the latter not likely at all), was

really

convinced of his guilt. I can think of only one logical reason: Quailman was right.

[Cadmium]

Your continued lack of understanding of the facts are really starting to bug me.

It's odd to trust one's opinion about someone over solid facts, Cadmium.

So first you're implying that I don't understand the facts and then you're saying that it's odd that I trust someone over solid facts? Whatever!

These are the facts:

So you want to talk just facts. Fine by me.

1) Quailman was a cop who fingered me.

Nothing to argue here.

2) We do not know if Quailman was sane, insane, or other

We know he wasn't insane or naive (DP). This leaves us with sane, paranoid and random.

3) fletcher hid with me

Not a fact. This is something he said, it can't be proven yet.

4) fletcher did not die

True, but this doesn't mean anything since we don't know for sure he hid with you.

5) When hidders hide with mafia, they die.

Again, do we know the exact mechanism of a hider? No.

It looks like you're assuming more than I do. The only two things I'm assuming is that Quailman knew he wasn't paranoid (which I can hardly even call assuming) and that it's not likely that he was a random cop.

Someone else explain to Dragon Slayer everything I've said today.

I'm not explaining again. I'm getting tired of repeating myself too. Let him figure it out himself. We'll deal with it tomorrow.

[Cadmium]

::snores::

[Cadmium]

Ah, it feels good to be able to talk again.

Who put me to sleep anyway? I have no idea what happened.

What do you guys think about mole? Do you think he was on the town's side? Looks like it to me. Any ideas on what a guru might do in a mafia game?

[Cadmium]

Mole's guru role sounds pretty cult-esque to me.

I've been giving it some thought and I don't think it's about a cult. A cult have their own ideas and want everyone to believe the same (read not pro-town). But a guru is just a spiritual teacher. If he was in some kind of group, it probably is just some sort of meditation group. Maybe a mason? On the other hand, he could also have had a blocking or investigative role.

Right now, mikehart seems the most suspicious to me. Maybe we should consider lynching him right away? If we're going to wait for a replacement, we'll just get this whole "don't blame me for things I didn't say"-discussion again. This will lead us nowhere.

[Cadmium]

Stewie and mikehart have yet to post today, and Werebear, Cadmium, and Electra have each posted once today while presumably being active in other games (though I haven't checked this). Cadmium especially, as he was unable to talk for all of the last day, expressed his joy at being able to talk again, and hasn't spoke since.

*points at Cadmium's

9 posts

in Mafia 15

just today

*

Well, excuse me for being a little more interested in an end game with three players where making a choice has a lot more impact on the game than over here . I normally never post in the weekends (which is friday, saturday and sunday for me), I don't have an internet connection at home. Please note that I posted last thursday, my last day at work. And here's me posting today. So there's nothing suspicious going on IMO. And you know the weekends are always more quiet here, so why are you using this arguement? Out of other ideas?

Oh, and please get your facts straight. I posted

twice

today .

[Cadmium]

Vote: Fletcher

I have no other ideas at the moment. He was a confirmed innocent by mlaker but we don't know what happened afterwards. He might be a mafia spy who joined them for all we know. All we know is that he was not mafia when mlaker visited him. We don't know anything about his role and his current affiliation. So I guess this is worth a shot.

[Cadmium]

All all the players left, I'm most suspicious of Tigris and Dragon Slayer. Dragon Slayer claimed to be townie and Tigris hasn't claimed yet. But since Mikehart hasn't been around for a long time, I find Dragon Slayer the most likely candidate.

[Cadmium]

NEHI, I think we should wait with voting until everyone has claimed their role. Or aren't we going to do that?

Here's a list with all the claimed roles so far:

Code: Select all

Cadmium       - ?
Dragon Slayer - townie (no ability)
Electra       - ?
Mathcam       - ?
NEHI          - FBI agent (lost ability)
Stewie        - townie (no ability)
Tigris        - townie (no ability)
Werebear      - ?

I'm going to wait with my claim until Mathcam and Werebear have claimed their roles (so should Electra). You'll find out why when I claim.

[Cadmium]

Sorry about the late reply. I've been sick all week and couldn't get near an internet connection. Jadajadajada, I'll claim my role now.

At first, I was the assassin. It was a passive role. If another player targeted me, (s)he would get a PM from Corsato asking if (s)he wanted to use the assassin to kill someone that night. That happened the first night only. I have no idea who decided to use my ability.

Then, on night 4, mole approached me and asked me to join his meditation group. I would lose my ability if I decided to do so. I was the first one to join his mason. When mole died, I took over his powers and recruited Electra last night.

This leaves us with the following claims:

Code: Select all

Cadmium       - recruitable mason
Dragon Slayer - townie (no ability)
Electra       - recruitable mason
Mathcam       - vigilante (lost ability)
NEHI          - FBI agent (lost ability)
Stewie        - townie (no ability)
Tigris        - townie (no ability)
Werebear      - crime scene investigator

Werebear's off the hook. He knew about me joining mole's mason and unless there's an investigative mafia role left in the game, he's innocent.

What I'd like to know now is: Did any of you guys get an invitation to join mole's mason and refuse it?

[Cadmium]

What was Electra's role before she was recruited? Cadmium, your role was pro-town or not? mathcam, when did mole attempt to recruit you?

I wasn't informed about Electra's old role. My guess is a townie, since a cop or doc would not give up their ability. My old role, the assassin, was not pro-town and not anti-town. I would win if I was alive at the end of the game.

Mathcam was correct about his recruitement attempt. Mole tried to recruit him the second night but got a rejection.

Cadmium, you're pretty sure that people who join the cult become pro-town if they weren't already?

I'm positive. Like I said, my old role wasn't really pro-town. But since I joined mole, I'm a pro-town mason. But this doesn't say anything about mafia members. I asked Corsato about what would happen if I tried to recruit a mafia member. He told me that I would find out should I try it. This could mean multiple things:

• I die attempting to recruit one (without them being informed).
  
• I die attempting to recruit one (with them being informed).
  
• I am able to recruit one (not likely).
  
• I'm not able to recruit one (without them being informed)
  
• I'm not able to recruit one (with them being informed)

So the best I can do now, is looking at the "being informed" part. That's why I asked if anyone has received an invitation. I believe everyone alive in this game (except for me and Electra) has responded after my previous post, so I guess it's save to say that mathcam is the only one who has received one? This is important. Please check again.

[Cadmium]

So even after asking two times, noone else claims to have received an invitation to our mason? This is interesting ...

On night three, mole tried to recruit Werebear and got a rejection. I'm sure that if he received a PM, he would have remembered rejecting it. So I think there's a possibility he's not who he claims to be.

The only thing in his roleclaim not known to others is the part about me being recruited by mole. But like someone else mentioned before, this was not hard to reduce from some of the posts. Just have a look:

What do you guys think about mole? Do you think he was on the town's side? Looks like it to me. Any ideas on what a guru might do in a mafia game?

Mole's guru role sounds pretty cult-esque to me.

I thought he might have a role similar to the priest...

I've been giving it some thought and I don't think it's about a cult. A cult have their own ideas and want everyone to believe the same (read not pro-town). But a guru is just a spiritual teacher. If he was in some kind of group, it probably is just some sort of meditation group. Maybe a mason? On the other hand, he could also have had a blocking or investigative role.

Oh yeah, and in my IRL games, "cult" doesn't necessarily mean evil. I just meant it sounded like the head of a group. (Maybe not masons...they might not know who each other are). Of course, it could be something completely different (Werebear gave the priest as an example).

I'm going to wait with my claim until Mathcam and Werebear have claimed their roles (so should Electra). You'll find out why when I claim.

So what's next? Got an explanation, Werebear?

[Cadmium]

And one question for you - If you were a crime scene investigator, and were told you'd lose your investigations to join an unknown group, would you? Neither would I.

I can't disagree with you there. I wouldn't join either if I were in your shoes. I did join because I figured that my old role (assassin) would do more harm than good to the town. But this is not the point. We're not discussing this because you didn't join, but because you failed to remember receiving an invitation.

I can't believe *I* am the subject of the hotseat here, especially after I outed a cult member who hadn't revealed. Can anyone give me an explanation of that, other than "very lucky guess"?

You're only the subject of the hotseat because of the mail you didn't remember. That's the only thing that made me look back at all the "info" I gave away in the thread. This still is a mafia game and in a mafia game you have to consider everything. I remember playing Greifswald mafia on the GL (great game!). I was a herbalist, a doc which could protect himself or another player every night. There was no way of the mafia (werewolves) knowing that name. But what happens? The last mafia member, the werewolf godfather, claims to be a herbalist, wins my trust and thus the game. Very lucky guess indeed.

Anyway, since "today's" lynch is due tomorrow, I will

vote: Dragon Slayer

. If werebear finds his mail, he can prove that he received it to either mathcam, Electra or me since there are one or two things left unmentioned. I don't believe Tigris to be mafia since Mikehart was gone for a long time. Which leaves mathcam and DS. Although mathcam's claim seems weird and he acted a little suspicious throughout the game, I think we have a better chance going after DS.

[Cadmium]

Yes, last night I recruited mathcam, and he accepted.

I have no idea what to do with this. I was confident that he would have rejected the offer again. I thought that he was the last mafia member and frankly, I still do. So I can either recruit mafia into the mason or I'm way off here.

I still don't think Tigris is mafia. Before the replacement, mikehart could never have given the targets to Corsato since he wasn't around.

I need to think about this some more.

[Cadmium]

One thing that I do find curious about the recruitments is that only 5 attempts to recuit people have been noted in 8 nights, so I think it is likely that some roles are not recruitable and mole took their lack of recruiting as refusal rather then a role prohibition to join.

Or he may have forgotten to send in a choice. Plus, I think one night may have been lost due to mole's death.

Another potential problem is if the cult/mason group knows when someone has been recruited. If only the leader is made aware, then killing Cadmium will negate anything gained by a no lynch day.

If I get killed, I think electra/bigbenwd will take over and will know about the recruitement anyway.

[Cadmium]

What ?

You were a cop and decided to join the mason and lose your investigative powers?

Could you please give us all the info you've got?

[Cadmium]

I never said you were lying either. I was just really surprised to hear that Electra threw away her investigative ability to join a group she didn't even know to be a mason at that time. I still am actually. I believe the claim though. If you were mafia, you would have been save even without that claim. And you "cleared" the one player I'm pretty confident about of not being mafia, NEHI. I think either Stewie or mathcam is the last mafia.

I don't think we can assume that mafia can't join the mason. Mathcam has looked suspicious throughout the game. Also, the roleclaim's just too weird, a vigilante who lost his ability. He could have read something about losing an ability in the invitation to the mason and figured he'd use that in his claim. And why would there even be a vigilante in this game when there was an assassin?

Stewie may be cleared by mlaker, but this means exactly nothing. We all remember the CoolBot thing, right? And he especially got my attention today. He was the first one to vote, and immediately voted Tigris (with mathcam following). Tigris proposes a no lynch and Stewie agrees. When bigbenwd clears NEHI, Stewie says we should probably lynch NEHI (insane cop thing). And then there's the inconsistency:

Well, for me it's between tigris and mathcam. NEHI doesn't look like scum at all

Yes, I was thinking that there's only 1 mafia left, and that the cult cannot recruit mafia, and that either you (he meant Tigris) or NEHI is the last mafia.

I say we lynch Stewie/mathcam today and if we are wrong, lose a player the next night and give it one more shot the next day with either Stewie/mathcam or Tigris.

[Cadmium]

Can you tell me why it's such a bad idea?

The only reason why you want a no lynch is because we might recruit someone extra. Like I said before, I'm not going to assume that mafia can't be recruited. So it won't give us extra info. On the other hand, if we lynch someone innocent today, we'll know that person to be innocent. We'll only have more info tomorrow (read more chance to get the mafia). This really isn't one of those moments that a no lynch is good. Except when you're mafia.

Well, I have no argument against this being possible. But I still think someone, possibly Electra, had something to do with the impotenting (<-- not a word) of my role.

The thing I find weird about your claim is that you're the only one who claims to have lost his ability other than by recruitment or by losing the purpose of the ability. And it's almost too convenient. No kills by a vigilante throughout the game and when outed no way of proving the claim.

I still say we lynch either Stewie or mathcam. No other ideas?

[Cadmium]

Are you not considering the posibility of there being 2 mafia, meaning that if we lynch wrong today we lose, but if the mafia gets an extra kill, we narrow down the choices and we get to recruit one more person.

There could be two mafia left, but I find it far more likely that there's only one left. This game has 25 players. There was a SK and I used to be an assassin. Looking at these numbers and the fact that there was only one cop (and replacement), the game seems fairly balanced with 5 mafia members in total. 4 members are already dead, which makes me believe there's one left. And if I'm wrong, there's only more chance of lynching one today. Plus, then it would be even dumber to not lynch anyone today.

Can the cult talk to each other at night? because if they can, I highly doubt that mafia can join.

Yes, we are able to communicate at night. And I agree that it would be a hell of a job for a mafia member to talk to both groups at night. But this made me think. Maybe a mafia member can only join the meditation group when he's the last member left. Communication problem solved.

I'm more worried about why you keep dodging the Electra question....

I never "dodged" the Electra question. You've made just one comment on the matter and that was after I posted my view on it:

I was just really surprised to hear that Electra threw away her investigative ability to join a group she didn't even know to be a mason at that time. I still am actually. I believe the claim though. If you were mafia, you would have been save even without that claim. And you "cleared" the one player I'm pretty confident about of not being mafia, NEHI.

I'm confident about NEHI since he was the only one that helped me lynch CoolBot. And here's another reason why I believe Electra/bigbenwd:

Additionally, electra was asking about the godfather a considerable amount of the day that fletcher was lynched, which would go along with the role investigations given.

This leaves Stewie, mathcam and Tigris as candidates for being mafia. IMO, Tigris can only be mafia if there are two members left. Plus, if you compare his posts with Stewie's and mathcam's, it looks like he's trying to help the town instead of waiting what the others decide to do.

I also found this to be quite interesting:

I agree that it's not clear whether or not mafia lose their ability or alleigance by being recruited.

We were discussing whether or not a mafia member can be recruited, but you're only refering to a recruited mafia member. Know something we don't? I think I'll just

vote: mathcam

[Cadmium]

Cadmium, did you get information about what happened when mole tried to recruit me? There's a difference between me saying no to being recruited and me being unrecruitable. Why would I have even been asked if I wanted to join if I couldn't be?

In one of his PM's to me, he told me that both you and Werebear refused to join. I have no idea if this is what Corsato told him though. But you're right about the "invitation" the first attempt. That's the one thing that doesn't add up here.

As for the communication thing, it was never mentioned in the recruitment offer that I would be able to communicate with my fellow cultists. I'm not even sure I was told this after I was recruited (but possibly). But I don't even see the argument here. Why it is difficult to communicate with two groups at once? If anything, it's a huge benefit for the mafia.

When you agreed on joining, I'm sure you were told that you are part of a mason (not cult) with recruiting powers. I believe it's normal for a mason to communicate at night. But there wasn't a direct notification of it. Plus, I only communicated with mole about the night choices.

Why it's difficult to communicate with two groups at once? You'd think it would be like ten times easier to send in a target for the night, but a lot of people can't even manage to do that in time. Communication with two groups at once could work, but I don't think Corsato put that in his game. There's a bigger chance of needless waiting at night than succes. That's where the argument is coming from.

No offense, Cadmium, but this is ridiculous. If you thought it was unlikely that a mafia member could be recruited, you wouldn't have included me in the list of people you're pushing to get lynched. I personally think they are probably recruitable, but I (obviously) don't know if they have or not.

Non taken. But I don't think this is as ridiculous as you might think. I never thought it was unlikely that a mafia member could be recruited. I told you at the beginning of this day and I'm still saying it. I don't know why you think otherwise. The point is, we were discussing whether or not a mafia member could be recruited by the mason (again, which I think is quite possible). You were absent for a while and tried to catch up. And the very first thing you comment about, is not the possibility of mafia recruitment but the effect of mafia recruitment. Seemed like you already were absolutely certain that mafia can indeed be recruited.

We need some more discussion here.

[Cadmium]

::sighs::

Okay, I'm going to explain this one last time.

If we don't lynch anyone today, the mafia will simply kill the person most likely to be innocent in the eyes of the others. Then, tomorrow you will have the exact same problem since the most suspicious players are still around.

If we do lynch one of the suspicious players and he turns out to be guilty, kudos! If he turns out to be not guilty, at least we have a better chance tomorrow.

I really don't understand why you are only focusing on recruiting players for the mason. The way it looks right now, I will be killed tonight. And frankly I have no idea if the recruitment will work when I die the same night.

[Cadmium]

Well played everyone!!

I really enjoyed this game. Being the assassin was cool but I couldn't make any decisions for myself. I was only serving other players. When mole recruited me, it got really interesting.

Great game, Corsato! And one of the longest I've been in, seven months of playing .

[Cadmium]

Corsato, in the night choices, I can't seem to find Mole recruiting me. Also, it says that Bloojay protected me twice, but I can't remember sleeping for two days. Did you forget to put me to sleep the second time or is it a mistake?

[Cadmium]

I'm not sure if that's what Corsato meant, Werebear. I think he intended to give the name of the player that killed the SK when you would investigate his death. This would have resulted in either the name of the assassin or the name of one of the mafia members.

[Cadmium]

::sorting threads::