NY 191: Denmark Mafia - Endgame

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: MarioManiac

For implying your vote to have some serious implications when your 'serious' reason was pretty garbage. The need to even establish your RVS as anything more than RVS is suspicious given that you had nothing to back up your own claim. Then, in light of your spam style posting after, it seems odd that you have ANY serious reason thus far in this game.

[Aj The Epic]

-And then I read the other three pages.

Yeah, comfortable about this vote.

[Aj The Epic]

Hey AJ, any other thoughts on the game besides MarioManiac?

I have an issue with this. You openly consider me scum and then softball some 'question' at me to show your belief as such. There's literally zero conviction behind your read. Not only that, this question is pretty worthless given that the content so far had MAINLY been RVS and Mario's issues.

Bad question, low motivation in it given his position on me.

Why even pick you rc?

There are so many better choices. Aj slips a lot regardless of alignment, I am notorious for being lynched early bc of my give no shits early, Elyse is known to be abrasive. You have a consistently clunky day 1.

That makes no sense.

?? I don't scum slip a whole lot. I don't believe I 'townslip', somewhat on the grounds that I don't believe in townslips. And I think I've only played with you in like two games...

Anyways.

@Heat If I'm not looking for scum ... are you looking for scum then? :/ By just sitting there and calling people noisy?

Doubles down on the noise thing in the follow-up post. I'm not someone who uses the so-called 'noise to content' indicator or whatever the hell it is, but the logic in this post is painfully wrong. The amount of discrediting here, coupled with a bit of fallacious logic does signal scum.

That's nice, Firebringer.

Plan on doing anything relevant soon?

Grib can be scum. These questions are an active attempt to sound engaged but in reality nothing more than a half-assed attempt to shift the workload to someone else.

[Aj The Epic]

fucking liar so you can claim diamond smurf in bronze

[Aj The Epic]

Not really since you seem like the person who would worship an Annie shrine forever and only main her as your true 'waifu' or something.

[Aj The Epic]

Like, in a year, no one has managed to lynch me as scum.

You're aware of this.

You're saying that you're okay letting me somewhat lurk in the background and not making an immediate attempt to push or sort me?

...So we should lynch you to break this?

Grib, your entire argument of "You think I'm scum but we're voting together" can be ended with the word 'busing'.
As for fire, it doesn't matter what he posts. My concern isn't reading people who're relatively easy to figure out. My concern will be RCB, Titus, Esp and Shiro (simply because I've never played against her). I think this is my fourth game with Fire and I'm fairly confident with reading him.
Lastly, 'attacking' vs 'figuring things out' isn't really relevant. They're basically one in the same and only semantic differences at that point.


@Mario
Dwlee will show himself relatively easily if he's scum. Probably within a day or so. There's also the misrep of 'agrees again'. Looking at the case, you specified exactly what he was agreeing with. There's nothing 'sheeping' about it. That's not really a buddy case either unless it were to be incessant. However, you brought it up far too early for it to really show anything to us.

Fire, do you have Titus as town?

[Aj The Epic]

As for fire, it doesn't matter what he posts. My concern isn't reading people who're relatively easy to figure out.

can you say who are these people?

Fire , Dwel , ... ?

Notscience, Mario, Dave and probably Frozen Angel. Admittedly, Dave is an interesting case who I sometimes just don't care to read.

@AJ

That's an incredibly lazy buzzword. Do you have anything to back it up?

Besides, wine aside, I'm not in the habit of purposefully crippling my team Day 1 for towncred. I don't have a hard time getting townread on MS regardless of my alignment (save for a couple of scumgames I borked), so it wouldn't be giving me any particular advantage.

Fair enough on Firebringer.

Lazy? Nah, it's a possible explanation that justifies why we might have the same vote. Having the vote isn't what I care for: Why you have it, conviction behind it and situations when it occurs are more useful. This is why I think it's useless to go "Oh well, Gribs is voting for Mario... one of them is town".


Dwlee, have you ever caught scum as town, and if so how do you go about catching scum? Because I doubt it's via VCA.

[Aj The Epic]

Also fire, you didn't answer if you had Titus as town.

[Aj The Epic]

Shinobi is town, Titus? RCB is probablyTown, Fire town, Dave town and we might as well phone home because heat's scum.

VOTE: heat

[Aj The Epic]

I mean I like his vote, but is Grib rubbing anyone else way the wrong way alignment wise?

Seems to be trying way too hard to come across as a good lil townie.

Yes. I'm biased since he's been scum read of mine for a while, but the post you were referring to, he was agreeing so easily with everything.

I don't agree with this general likeness of FA. I think that this could easily be a scum game and letting the fluff post go so heavily is allowing any scum in this main group to assimilate by posting nothing more than fluff. Don't mind fluff like others (Shinobi) however recognize the consequences that can come with it.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm fairly confident the scumteam doesn't believe they can get me lynched toDay without at least half of them pushing it and getting ripped to shreds when I flip town.

I welcome them to try, though!

Titus, I don't feel people are scrambling to counter Davsto. The wagon just feels...boring. It didn't take off because there really isn't a lot to it.

These kind of posts have 0 town motivation.

[Aj The Epic]

Rubix cubes have 6 faces. Not specific enough.

[Aj The Epic]

Dav lynch probably isn't a good choice. Titus, you're almost ego-hunting on this "Scum RVS me" reason.

[Aj The Epic]

pistachio - Dweele is like a TvS fight. not sure which side is town though ... dweele is really focused on him right now.

Dwlee pointed this out but there is an issue with this post. You call it TvS with no reason for your suspicion. You give no reasons either way that Dwlee or Pistachio could be scum. Most importantly, you never pointed who was town in this situation, but just decided that one of the two was scum. Free lynches? This is a scum post and should be regarded as a scum claim. FA is playing both sides of the fence with no reason for either. Take a good look at the iso and find me reasons for your town read on her, because between fluff posts and hardcore fence sitting and some arguable buddying, there's an admitted lack of town play here.

VOTE: FrozenAngel

Sweet middle spot on heat wagon, total lack of engagement with me or my Dave read but for saying it's ego. That doesn't mean anything. Every read he's taken others already stated.

1) MM - no reason abandoned when not popular for...
2) Heat - no reason

He's made subtle jabs at the townbblock. Grib and myself especially.
Also made jabs at vca, which competent vca pressures him and the last person who attacked my vca preemptively without provocation was scum.

Titus, you have a major issue reading me. Your case on dave on "Scum RVS me" is COMPLETELY ego. I could RVS you, Fire RVS'd you and you didn't give a shit. You're just giving one a pass and one none and your case otherwise isn't going anywhere. In not so many words, I was telling you your case wasn't good enough.

I left the mario wagon because I had other places to be. There's no need for me to say otherwise because it's not like I'm magically town reading him. Heat's post before mine was bad and was pointed out by RCB.

Making jabs at your town block needs to happen. I'm not townreading Grib at all. The only reason I've jabbed at you is because your case about Dave isn't up to snuff. And you're all wrong about Frozen Angel. I don't care for your belief that I shouldn't be taking jabs at them and for whatever reason you calling a select group of players town puts them off limits. We both know that's not smart nor is it how you play.

As for VCA, it won't even work until flips start happening. Good on you for thinking otherwise but you're wrong.

Your case on me needs something more substantial, same with Dave.

[Aj The Epic]

@Aj I explained it in post 829. your either blind or scum.
I never see both them a possible scum. is that so hard to understand?
and when did I exactly played both side of the fence?

@Titus I get your concerns about dave but he isn't that obvious scum. I can't accept voting him today.

I read 829. It's not a good explanation. Dwlee 'one read' is scum or pistashio basically lurking (his reaction) is scum? There's nothing there in standard play that says either of these actions are reasonably scum. Dwlee isn't scum here, that much is pretty apparent at this point. But you're still not taking a definitive stance on WHICH of them is scum to allow you to play both sides of this coin.

AJ abandons the Heat wagon now to doubtcast FA for being her usual self.

You're right the who doesn't matter. It's the

how

that matters. I wouldn't care just for being RVSed, it was how Dave said it.

Another jab because my Dave case "isn't good enough". When you both have red PMs, that's going to happen.

You weren't certain scum via VCA. I didn't say confidence ore flip either. I was referring to 340 where your attack of the method is out of left field. If Pistachio is scum, I bet AJ is scum too. Because Dwellee was saying something about VCA for reactions is no reason to attack the method itself.

I've never played with Frozen Angel. I'm not 'doubt casting' either, I'm full on calling Frozen Angel scum.
If you believe I have a red PM, you can eventually attempt to show this.

And I dislike VCA this early in the game and in general. VCA isn't bad super late into the game but it's not a supplement for actual scum-hunting.

When i townbblock, I win. No attacking my town reads today.

You're going to drop this in my face so recently after BBmolla's game?

[Aj The Epic]

Remind me about why we think Frozen Angel is town.

[Aj The Epic]

Remind me about why we think Frozen Angel is town.

Who is this too?

Dwlee.

[Aj The Epic]

Dwlee was stating it was one of the reasons he feels me to be scum, so I asked him to point to what makes FA town.

[Aj The Epic]

we think

Vote me for semantics. That's definitely how you find scum.

[Aj The Epic]

It really isn't. Do you vote people off of the specific words they say (We/you) or what they're saying?

[Aj The Epic]

It really isn't. Do you vote people off of the specific words they say (We/you) or what they're saying?

That's a distinction without a difference.

No it isn't. You're arguing my individual use of we as opposed to you (check my speech patterns in general: I use 'we' way more than any other). I'm saying people look to what people say in the sense of "I plan to vote here" or "This is my reasoning". There is a distinction and difference.

remind me why you think I'm scum?! :/

This was literally explained 2 pages ago. You were taking the position of allowing yourself two lynches when you were suggesting one town in the group. You never specified who was more likely to be scum, just that one is. The reasons for this feeling were not adequate either.

[Aj The Epic]

FA, I don't put much into the words of people explaining their action if there wasn't a communication error. What you stated then is to me what matters, and I even take into account your response to dwlee. Any other justification for what has been communicated to me just looks like backtracking to try and correct your positioning.

[Aj The Epic]

No one scum slipped. You're applying it when it fits you.

[Aj The Epic]

No one scum slipped. You're applying it when it fits you.

You said why we are town reading FA ? just after you accused me of being scum

You said I'm trying to backtracking when I just said the same thing again! and asked you why you think its wrong to avoid answers.

and Now you refusing to answer that?

and now your accusing me that I'm applying all these points because they fits me?

come on! you did these things or not?

That's not a scum slip? I wasn't implying I was townreading you, just saying 'we' as a collective town. This isn't like a one time quirk of me using 'we'. And if that's really all you have to go on, you are reaching sooo damn hard. That's your entire reason? YES you're applying a scum slip because it fits you: There's nothing here.

You backtracked. You started by giving reasons both Pistachion and Dwlee could be scum independently and then said you only saw one as scum. However you could never specify which one was more likely to be scum. You left yourself open to have two lynches. You let it be so you had no committed town read to either one (lynch one who flips scum, you just go take the other one out by your logic). This is a scum 2 for 1 attempt.

[Aj The Epic]

You really think I was about to pretend I hadn't scum read you?

And saying ONE OF THE TWO is scummy is EXACTLY what is scummy. You gave no reason on which one you wanted to search for first. You're saying of them is scum and letting them take both lynches before you have to explain why you were wrong.

[Aj The Epic]

Titus is probably town, but I really don't get her reasons for the Dav push because I'm really not seeing any buddying going on there
FA's spiel did strike me as townie, but not enough to make me unvote her
I'm not feeling as bad about Dwlee as I was yesterday. I agree that pistachio is scummy but I don't think its worthy of a lynch right now. I wanna see more of them before deciding

[Aj The Epic]

Uh. I fell asleep.

Hm.

Mario went back to lurking. Whee.

Dwlee pointed this out but there is an issue with this post. You call it TvS with no reason for your suspicion. You give no reasons either way that Dwlee or Pistachio could be scum. Most importantly, you never pointed who was town in this situation, but just decided that one of the two was scum. Free lynches?

This is a scum post and

should be regarded as a scum claim.

FA is playing both sides of the fence with no reason for either. Take a good look at the iso and find me reasons for your town read on her, because between fluff posts and hardcore fence sitting and some arguable buddying, there's an admitted lack of town play here.

VOTE: FrozenAngel

No it shouldn't.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aj The Epic

Have a thing.
I will not lynch: Shinobi, Frozen Angel, Firebringer, RadiantCowbells, Titus, Dwlee
I would rather not lynch: Davsto, Elyse, Shiro
I don't mind lynching: Zymf, Drixx, pignash, pistachi0n
I want to lynch: Espeonage, Heat, MarioManiac, Aj

This is a weak post. Everyone you 'wouldn't mind' lynching is a lurker. You take only the easiest routes on any of your reads and echo exactly what Titus has for reads for your 'will not lynch'. There's no independent thought here.

[Aj The Epic]

You handle lurkers by having them replaced if possible.

I want FA much more you. And pressure is irrelevant. "pressure" is a bullshit concept.

[Aj The Epic]

I play on the teal/gray background. So no.

[Aj The Epic]

Dwlee is town this game. That much is apparent.

[Aj The Epic]

Dwlee is town this game. That much is apparent.

"apparent" is just for scum......

Your parroting is tiring. Get a good argument or something worth saying.

[Aj The Epic]

tell me 3 reasons that proves Dwlee is certainly town. (that's the meaning of apparent isn't it?)

I know his scum meta and caught it within a few pages in our last game. Unfortunately people are people.

Dwlee's scum meta is very opportunistic. He does not keep votes on anyone, does not lead charges.
Dwlee's consistency as scum is low.
He's a follower as scum.

In this game, he has gone against that very easily. I don't think Dwlee's played long enough to emulate a style not his own yet. Certainly not to this extent.

[Aj The Epic]

I'll continue using it until you fool me. But you aren't scum this game.

Even if I wanted to go motivation, the same motivation I saw you taking advantage of in the last one is not here.

[Aj The Epic]

Elyse's response to zymf's vote was too tentative. Not sure what position to take but knowing it isn't right.

[Aj The Epic]

Literally the exact position I took on zymf's post lmao

That was a description of what your postwas in relation to zymf's post. Glad I hit it right on.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah elyse is playing with fire via rules but more importantly even if she isn't, it's a straight-up lie.

[Aj The Epic]

Yes heat is probably scum. Probably more so than pistachio.

At some level you all are saying "X is scum" so much that you'll forget the arguments and just convince yourself of what you're saying. Hence is what is happening with Pistachio.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm gonna go see what a MarioManiac/Aj/Heat team looks like.

Standby.

I want a follow-up to this simply because I know by any look at my iso, this is coming up to be a pretty bad correlation.

I await someone to find a decent belief that I'm scum other than "Oh no he think's FA is scum!"

[Aj The Epic]

Do you find it weird that despite a couple people voicing suspicions of me, I have come under virtually no pressure [as in nobody is pushing me]? Does that tell you anything about my alignment, or the alignments of the people scumreading me?

I actually answered this already. As I stated, pressure is a bullshit concept. A more in-depth reason is because pressure felt is relative and therefore unable to be judged. If you're talking that no one has voted you hence little pressure, I'd say that you're simply not everyone's first option. If you're referring to no follow-up questions, I can't speak for anyone else but I simply have nothing I need to ask you right now other than to show me my connection to your mario/heat/me scum team.

Conveniently in your VCA you ignore that I've spent the majority of the game voting the other two you believe to be scum. And this VCA is the depth of your analysis, which to me doesn't signify a whole lot. You never check why anyone votes, simply where they are. As I see it, your conclusion for your raw data is wrong and you're not even going about applying it correctly.

[Aj The Epic]

Yes. He basically drew that pistachio wasn't someone he wanted to vote because it was the only time heat/mario/myself have voted together (heat and mario were on the same wagon). However, he refused to address the fact that I'd be bussing both buddies right out the game.

[Aj The Epic]

People do it. But vote counts are terrible before flips, soooo

As I've stated: It isn't terrible late, but you need more than it and early it isn't useful.

[Aj The Epic]

Hm.

Aj, what's your read on pistachi0n?

They need to replace out or become more active. I don't believe in lynching lurkers in all but the most obscene cases or when they've said something to make me believe them as scum otherwise. Neither has occurred here. To me, that slot is a coin flip, so I'm just not saying anything until someone starts to play that slot.

FA, parroting your own posts isn't going to help town win games.

[Aj The Epic]

pistachio - Dweele is like a TvS fight. not sure which side is town though ... dweele is really focused on him right now.

Dwlee pointed this out but there is an issue with this post. You call it TvS with no reason for your suspicion. You give no reasons either way that Dwlee or Pistachio could be scum. Most importantly, you never pointed who was town in this situation, but just decided that one of the two was scum. Free lynches? This is a scum post and should be regarded as a scum claim. FA is playing both sides of the fence with no reason for either. Take a good look at the iso and find me reasons for your town read on her, because between fluff posts and hardcore fence sitting and some arguable buddying, there's an admitted lack of town play here.

VOTE: FrozenAngel

I've already stated why, FA. The fact that you left it open to play both sides had no town motivation, even if later you tried to explain what you meant by leaving it so open to interpretation.

[Aj The Epic]

I meant the parroting thing hahaha
your stupid accusation is already answered like 100 times ...

"Aj is scum"

with nothing else. Over and over and over again. That's parroting.

[Aj The Epic]

hmmm lets summarize. best valid cases today :

AJ (Best case)
pistachi0n
Heat
Espionage
Dave

who is disagreed?

Hilarious that you included espionage in that, or claimed that there were valid cases.

[Aj The Epic]

Did I do anything different in my last game with you? Your read there was so bad and so tunneled it arguably played the town into the ground.

[Aj The Epic]

For context, in our last game the town had a conflict of opinions (Luna wanted to form a town block day 1 and I was pressing to find anyone who was scum). This brought me to go after quite a few people Luna had as town earlier until we sorted it out. Titus replaced in, got really engaged, thought I and another VT was scum and pushed both lynches through much to my vocal disappointment. And the 'townblock' had scum in it. Which is what I believe this time.

[Aj The Epic]

I assume you meant to respond to me, in which I state that I never pushed my own block. I followed Luna's block and questioned her on the people that I thought she got wrong. I'm doing to same thing here. I have mild suspicions on Gribs and major concerns about FrozenAngel.

Outside of that, I don't think the case on Pistachio is strong enough to follow and the town's direction has crashed in the last few days with almost a general acceptance that you'll go Me to pistachio or vice versa. News flash: This being that easy should be major causes for concern, especially because there's no fight from anyone (scum would at least try to prevent their guys from being lynched in some form, no matter how minor). My current guess is pistachio is town and the town in general is barking up the wrong trees. My suggestion would be to pursue Mario since your block seems to collectively wonder about him. Or pursue me, but this time at least give a damn about the people's reads after they die.

[Aj The Epic]

Also Heat. Heat is a good and likely scum direction to pursue.

[Aj The Epic]

I do not suspect you, so I'd prefer you not to start spreading that. You're just impossible to deal with.

Looking at his iso, I don't have as much of an issue with Grib as I did. My original issue was his question to actual analysis was incredibly high. Most of what he did early was question as opposed to giving his opinions on events. That's more likely scum than town simply because the questions felt so easy to ask. His post in 205 felt like OMGUS and I wasn't really appreciating his explanation for "Out of 6 on wagon, one is scum". It is too trivial a way to view it.

However, by post 323, he starts more analytical posts. I like his engagement with Elyse and agree with most of his points. I still disagree with his town circle (Elyse is a bit odd, considering his aforementioned concerns, obviously disagree FA). However, most of my remaining read is a nagging suspicion.

Re-reading, between FA, Elyse, Heat and probably one we haven't really caught yet (lurker or someone that's a tougher nut to crack), I would expect to find the majority of the scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Neither you nor pistachi0n are voting for each other, despite the fact that one of you two is very likely going to die toDay. I don't want to be arrogant enough to say it's because you're scummates, but.

You'd be wrong to say so. I'd prefer to interest you in a heat lynch over pistach (since this is the closest I have with an agreement from the 'townbloc'). Obviously in this scenario the only motive town or scum can have is to vote pistach if he's the only other option. I don't like that option in any context unless absolutely needed.

[Aj The Epic]

As for Aj, he also never interacts with pistachi0n. He kinda calls him scummy in 1092,

No, I was using pistach (major wagon) as a comparison to one of my scumspecs. In fact, I defended him in that same post.

[Aj The Epic]

I've listed these scum suspects as FA, Eylse, Heat right now. Mario is possible scum.

Dwlee is town, you're probably town. RCB is town for now, though RCB should never completely leave suspicion. I think Fire is town here, and I'm pretty okay with Shinobi. Esp is probably town, but I'd say Shinobi and Esp are on the low end of that belief.

I think Pistachio's lack of counterpush is telling. The case isn't as compelling as I'd like although his coping mechanism is turtling.

The rest are pretty null (Shiro) or unseen.

VOTE: Heat

I still think this is the one we'd most likely compromise on.

[Aj The Epic]

AJ why do you think heat is scum or that we will compromise on him and not pistachi0n or you?

In general the word 'we' includes the speaker.

[Aj The Epic]

As for heat being scum, we've discussed this a long while ago. There were a sequence of bad posts from that slot that RCB and some others went after.

[Aj The Epic]

I've given my reads list. Titus is bad at reading me. Finish it off, I'm tired of how wrong you all are.

[Aj The Epic]

I for one doubt a pistachio scum scenario. Look towards heat and elyse for your answer.

[Aj The Epic]

Given the two wagons, I firstly have much more positive reads on the people on Aj,

and I also have some questions about AJ, so

VOTE: Aj The Epic

I need to edit my notepad notes from catching up into something coherent. My brain is always a bit frazzled at end of semester time so bear with me.

I call bullshit.

[Aj The Epic]

Given the two wagons, I firstly have much more positive reads on the people on Aj,

and I also have some questions about AJ, so

VOTE: Aj The Epic

I need to edit my notepad notes from catching up into something coherent. My brain is always a bit frazzled at end of semester time so bear with me.

I call bullshit.

You made that quite easy for me.

A townie isn't afraid to answer questions. Scum attack.

That was like ... remarkably easy. Thanks.

First, your generalizations are correct, but you just called the kettle black. What I quoted was to point out that you HAVE questions, but don't ask them. Apparently, you don't have questions.

[Aj The Epic]

Shinobi, who do you have as scum at this point?

[Aj The Epic]

@AJ - Call me whatever you like. I baited you with a clear idea of what to expect from a town mindset and what to expect from a scum mindset. You responded with what I expected from a scum mindset. Feel free to show me evidence that your normal response to general comments is to attack instead of ask questions, and I'll certainly be happy to re-evaluate.

I'm quoting this post game.

You said you had questions, but all you did was pretend you did to justify a vote.


Titus, until intent I have no intentions to claim, as is normal in a game. And before any claim I make, I want confirmation that after a lynch, you'll consider my reads strongly, since you have a habit of ignoring the reads of the lynched town. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make you right by any stretch of the imagination.

[Aj The Epic]

Actually I think he's scum.

[Aj The Epic]

I do that regardless.

[Aj The Epic]

At some level, titus, you are just believing everything I say comes from scum. You're no longer on a rational level of discussion in this area.

[Aj The Epic]

I do that regardless.

nobody noticed it? he just confirmed he is probably scum! :/ :lol:

Saying that I point out stuff post game as an "I told you so" is confirming me as scum. This one is new.

[Aj The Epic]

@Nero

Uh

>Titus is wrong

Dwlee has been thinking Pistach is scum all game, kinda backing off now.
Titus wagoned Davesto off him RVS'ing Titus, got mad when I called it 'ego-hunting', went after me when town disbanded on Dave.
Mario was the RVS, he's kinda disappeared.

Read Heat, Elyse carefully. Shinobi, RCB, Titus, Dwlee are all probably town.

[Aj The Epic]

Pignash is an inactive slot for the most part. Espeonage just unvoted in the last two or three pages.

[Aj The Epic]

I quoted a few posts here that are symbolic of the bulk of AJ's posts. His focus has been more on attacking townblocks than catching scum. He's not pushing his own reads but focusing on defending himself.

So this is basically the summary of titus' entire current belief right now with me.

I've had a strong belief that Frozen_Angel, someone Titus thinks is town, has been scum. In general, their posting is fluff but some of the things FA said earlier in the thread pertaining to the Dwlee/Pistachio argument was really bad. She called it a TvS and never specified which part was scum, but was willing to go lynch to find out. That, on top of the fact that there's very little if any analysis or questioning or real advancement to the gamestate from that slot has me believing FA is scum.

So Titus is mad about that and the fact that I have dave wagon as bad, and have contested that the pistachio lynch is probably going to hang town (a fact that Dwlee is realizing now due to the questionable composition of the wagon). It isn't like I've solely devoted my time to going after FA (in fact, I've spent little time doing so) but Titus tunnels the fuck out of whatever she thinks is scummy.

[Aj The Epic]

It ain't a scum response to attack your ego, Titus. It's sad you think that, too because it prevents a lot of proper discussion.

[Aj The Epic]

Titus, your ego is the entire basis of that scum tell you had on dave. It was completely relevant.

[Aj The Epic]

What? "Scum aren't going to bus". That logic just sucks.

[Aj The Epic]

I am scumreading Dave because he is treating me like I know scum have treated me in the past.

If dave or anyone on the scum team was TRULY scared of you, they'd kill you rather than trying to lynch you.

[Aj The Epic]

I take it that you have issues catching scum?

[Aj The Epic]

I am scumreading Dave because he is treating me like I know scum have treated me in the past.

If dave or anyone on the scum team was TRULY scared of you, they'd kill you rather than trying to lynch you.

Blitz 1, they lynched me when I fingered two of them.

Are any of them here?

[Aj The Epic]

No on the same scumteam. However lynching accurate townies is not unheard of.

I would say ETL was more on point for the majority of d1 after having read through. Your catch on Persuvial wasn't ever going to convince anyone (it was on his vote on you after he fence-sat the majority of d1, I think). ETL had two of the three scum read the majority of the day while you attacked marge for 30 odd pages.

You'll generally see a large stalled out wagon that's full of town when scum don't want to bus.

Two issues here: Neither wagon is full of town. Scum could very easily have all their votes placed. Secondly, blitz 1 was a large stalled wagon on YOU as well as Marge, so even when you're using these examples, you're ignoring cases you've been involved in. But I guess this leads me to ask what you think of Pistachio, since you didn't point out 'oh counterwagon'.

P-edit: We agree there. I'm disappointed you're unwilling to pursue that today though.

[Aj The Epic]

Frozen_angel, Drixx.

Elyse, Heat are the scum on the other wagon.

[Aj The Epic]

Sure, because scum like to all be on the same wagon so it's nice and easy to pick out. It's probably an inevitability to them so they don't give a fuck.

[Aj The Epic]

Sure, because scum like to all be on the same wagon so it's nice and easy to pick out. It's probably an inevitability to them so they don't give a fuck.

Don't dodge my question with sarcasm. Why wouldn't scum hammer you because deadline if you're scum?

For exactly what I stated: They figure it's an inevitability, why bother themselves? This is pretty obvious.

[Aj The Epic]

Titus, your arguments make 0 sense. At this point any scum team with a scum member caught would've bussed ages ago.

Here's the thing: You think you're so damn good at this game but you're making mistake after mistake for your own confirmation bias. None of the things that come out of your mouth make sense for a motive. Reassess this game or you'll drive it to the ground.

[Aj The Epic]

Someone take away titus' ability to lead lynches tomorrow please. Preferably RCB or Nero.

[Aj The Epic]

Town would tell us who scum was under pressure. AJ has made no effort to persuade who scum is and instead kissed my ass. He did answer a hypothetical but there's no drive to get any plausible scum lynched.

Far from it. I think you're town, but I've had no qualms telling you I think your hunting is awful.

[Aj The Epic]

I have told you multiple times who scum is, or are you just ignoring it

[Aj The Epic]

Nah.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: pignash

For obvious reasons, I'm not claiming. Please don't give me a reason to suspect you're trying to fish out my role, shinobi.

[Aj The Epic]

You are beyond delusional.

[Aj The Epic]

There's nothing more to discuss there. You've gone to the point of confirmation bias determining everything for you. I'll have a productive discussion with you when you're willing to actually discuss.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm glad you realize I'm town but... There are more apt times for yelling at titus.

[Aj The Epic]

@Dwlee the last vote was 6 to 5 me to pig.

Also Elyse you're scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Rules for tomorrow: Do NOT follow titus. I'm disappointed, really. Expected better from someone claiming to be really good at this game. But apparently give Titus a hint of a scum read and she'll blow it up and never listen to reason for the rest of the day.

Look for Elyse, Heat, FA, Pig and Drixx to be the majority of your scum. The confirmed town are obvious.

[Aj The Epic]

Argue semantics all you want. Confirm town or almost certainly town. You yourself might be scum, really. Otherwise, I really question how you've ever gotten that big an ego by being so wrong. Interesting that out of that entire post, you pick a fight over one word other than the general message.

[Aj The Epic]

Dwlee, Fire, Shiro. Nero could probably be town too.

And really, at this point I don't care if YOU listen because you're not the one who will win this game for the town.

[Aj The Epic]

It's L-1.

[Aj The Epic]

w8 , you suddenly scum reading Elyse? the one who tried that hard to get you out of this lynch ?

Did you just start reading? I've been scum reading Elyse for a while.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Mario

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Elyse

This 1v1 shit was set up yesterday off of me falling, flipping town and then allowing her some leverage vs Titus. I don't like being set up like that. More importantly, even if I disagree with Titus I still think Titus is just playing bad, not scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Are we sure this isn't a couple 180 from yesterday by Frozen_Angel? You seemed completely willing to follow Titus to hell and back and here you are voicing an issue, saying you'd rather take her over ELYSE?

[Aj The Epic]

Oh AJ, I wanna troll da scums some.

Favorite roles? What are they? What are you the best at?

Kinda unrelated, but I've always liked Serial Killer. Bigger risk, bigger reward and no buddies to mess up your play. Most pure way of seeing how good you are at lying.

[Aj The Epic]

Well there are votes on her, so you can quantify it that way if you want.

[Aj The Epic]

In heat's defense, Dwlee's post invited it and Titus also fished a bit.

[Aj The Epic]

Drixx you're looking at a post from the perspective of being a threat (Fucking lol) and then saying we should lynch him over it. Do you want to just tell me who you're scum with here or do i have to put the pieces together after you flip?

VOTE: drixx

[Aj The Epic]

Or they could both be scum pulling a "scum would never do that!" gambit.

God I love to counter the logical arguments with "Could be wifom though".

[Aj The Epic]

Be more interested in this if there wasn't confirmation bias probably driving it circa post 1691.

[Aj The Epic]

What do you think of Titus who is hard town reading that after trying like hell (and failing miserly) to get that lynched?

I looked through Titus's iso again and she said AJ obvtowned but didn't say where or how, so that's a little off.

But this is an associative theory and right now I think more evidence points to AJ being scum. I'd be more likely to consider Titus scum is AJ flips town, actually, because then I'd be thinking Titus wanted to buddy and get points after AJ flips town.

If you really gain the pressure to lynch me then maybe you'd have the damn common decency to read the deadman's reads which are probably better than yours.

I will agree with Drixx on this: Elyse, I am convinced, is scum. For mostly the reasons Drixx has mentioned, even if it is parroted from a few other people. I think Drixx's action with Nero was stupefying, but eh it could just be really rigid views. The reason for justifying a Nero lynch is something I'm going back to later, though.

VOTE: Elyse

[Aj The Epic]

Emphasis mine again. Titus made a factual statement about being on a hot streak at doing well finding scum. There was no need to get personal and make the sarcastic "lovely arrogance" comment. This is just Nero trying to instigate {again} a fight with Titus, since he entered the game by predicting one and she didn't take the bait and give him what he wanted.

....Accept it wasn't cut and dry true. I don't know how long ago Molla's game was, but to say in that game (which ended less than a month ago) Titus (or really anyone but tallah) was right about much would be a stretch.

[Aj The Epic]

Dwlee, if that something isn't confirming her as town and doesn't involve your role, you might want to spit it out. Otherwise, I'm pretty content to take an elyse lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

Sheeping is not a good way to go.

To the second scum read is.

VOTE: Heat

Pre-edit: There are users who constantly fight regardless of game, Drixx.

[Aj The Epic]

An innocent child knows they win a 1v1 regardless of who the opponent is.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Titus

I trust Elyse for now, also she was on the awful Mario flashwagon.

Unacceptable. At no point did you say anything about the Mario wagon for you to have hindsight abuse and make statements about it, especially lacking any reason.

[Aj The Epic]

Oh damn I seriously wonder why Aj might be on a MM wagon when it's either MM or Aj getting lynched. Let's think about that one.

[Aj The Epic]

Main issue with discussion of multiball right now is unless we have reason to suspect an interaction occurring that is justified by it, there's no reason to waste so much time discussing it. Yeah we can keep in mind this if we have a vig claim come through on a questionable shot flipping town but this really isn't an issue that effects the current state of the game.

The issue I have with Esp is primarily having pushed this theory but not having applied it in any way to this game.

[Aj The Epic]

pistach, are you just ignoring questions you can't answer now? Pretty sure the "Why the read on Aj" question was asked by Frozen_Angel and you just ignored it.

[Aj The Epic]

Opinion on heat, titus?

[Aj The Epic]

Grib, your entire issue with me right now is "I think I townread everyone else on that wagon not confirmed". That's a terrible argument. The reason I was on that wagon should also be incredibly obvious. The entire reach of trying to frame me as 'unknown' as the extent to the reason you're voting without even believing outright that I'm scum is an issue in and of itself. You have too non-commital a reason to be voting me, and if I'm your current vote you must be lacking any true scum read.

[Aj The Epic]

Could you walk me through your mindset behind why you lied?

I didn't lie. No confirmation that my reads would be respected came. As for scumreading Elyse, that had been a long term thing.

[Aj The Epic]

My worry was based on titus being the main runner of lynches and I know Titus doesn't really care for reads outside her own. So my basis of worry was that my reads would be completely ignored.

[Aj The Epic]

Well I'm in a weird position of not really having my scum read on elyse dissolve and more of having it stolen from me.

Also heat isn't even really around for me to talk to/read, so it's more a low-conviction thing right now as I look at Drixx and try to figure out what I think he is.

[Aj The Epic]

What are you thinking?

His issue with nero was really, really strange (smother [titus] with a pillow) and to push that as a reason to lynch is bad. When talking about why Elyse would try to 1v1 as an innocent child, I stated the obvious answer: She knew she would win regardless of what happened and thought titus was scum. However, he pushed on as if this wasn't the true meaning. Ended up contesting that gut was a bad reason to pull that. While sure, this is true, there's no reason to question it considering Elyse is now mod-confirmed town. Contesting it altogether ended up in a 'your read was bad, you wasted a power' sort of lecture, which could simply discourage a confirmed town from taking any action.

Didn't understand why Nero came in 'predicting a fight' when the answer appeared pretty obvious. They quarrel a lot, pretty obvious even though I play with neither of them regularly. Nothing in Nero's statements was baiting Titus to fight, both were plainly ready to argue regardless.

Lastly, when we started the day he toyed with Elyse being scum for the 1v1 titus on inevitable lynch, then stated I could be scum, or that both of us could be scum. Playing for a lot of lynches with very little town reads. His issue? We both voted him off his original issue with Nero, calling our votes opportunistic when his vote was... stretching at best, and opportunistic definitely being descriptive of it.

P-edit: dave in a bit.

[Aj The Epic]

If you're scum reading Dave, then you're married to Nero being scum, because Dave makes an excellent point here:

This shit is townie as hell, regardless of either AJ's alignment. Quitting an easy lynch to push a town wagon would make no sense from scum. If AJ is town, then he's a PR and scum supposedly just gave up the opportunity to be rid of a town PR. If AJ is scum, it's really fucking ballsy to change the wagon whilst being his scum partner, not to mention something that could easily screw him over later.

I don't see him as scum. He has so little content but every read he makes reflects what I think. Pignash/Heat/Elyse/Pistachio read as scum from start of D2. Sure he reads you as scum, we differ there. If he had a few more town reads, like hard posts stating "this is town", I'd be super comfortable with him as town. If not for the night end, this quote:

I- uh- what? RC looks like he's being silly RC here, which is all well and good, but it's still a weird conversation. If RC is scum, this basically means that Elyse isn't his partner, because this would be the weirdest way for scumbuddies to behave, by attracting attention to themselves using a silly reason to unvote over several posts.

Probably would've made him town to me.

If nero isn't scum, I have a hard time seeing Dave as scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Both are from Dave's 1691

[Aj The Epic]

Titus, do you think Nero is scum?

[Aj The Epic]

Esp, where's this going to take us if you're right?

On drixx, I want more time since I'm caught thinking scum is between pistachio, heat, pignash. Dave (and subsequently nero), Drixx are the others I still want to look into.

[Aj The Epic]

Haven't talked to Nero since yesterday, am not voting with him, only mentioned that Nero-town implies dave town.

[Aj The Epic]

@Titus, if you really want to assume I'd tie them together by the scenerio of "One town, both town" as all three of us being scum, aren't you overlooking the theory that it also states "One scum, both scum"?

@Pistachion there hasn't been a time to talk with him so very low interaction today.

[Aj The Epic]

Because dave's push for him was so strong to move a questionable slot to basically confirmed-town status. He didn't give himself any leniency to say "Well he could be scum IF" but rather "This is town either way". It's not a read he has to or should take as scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Your argument is bad on the reason that you can't give reason for Fire/Pistachi/Frozen town and make this assumption right here. Then you act like the town wasn't seriously misguided and that under pages of pressure you failed to find anything conclusive on me.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm just sad that no one took me seriously when I stated Heat, FA were both scum day 1.

[Aj The Epic]

Thinking back. Had I lied more I probably would have won. Told too much truth.

And on the topic of rows on ms. Probably best not to air them. There are people I don't play with and people who don't play with me on principle and most of the time it isn't known to the blacklisted player. It means people don't get offended and allows for coexistence.

Ehh... I would've lynched you as soon as the double NK came through for knowing too much for no reason. You predicted two scum teams when town had no information to believe as such and excess information cannot be allowed to live without reason. At minimum, I would've wanted a role claim to what gave you that information. While there was only 1 scum team and 1 nk it was pointless speculation, but N2 and you being right... you should've died that day.