NY 192: Game Shop Mafia (Over)

[Wickedestjr]

I am a Miller.

Vote: Keyser Soze

because he's really suspicious

[Wickedestjr]

Frozen Angel, yoo hoo, can I ask where you are from?

Why are you asking her about this?

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

If RC is probably scum, then why are you not voting him? Instead, you are sheeping Aero's page 1 "I don't like this post" vote for Frozen Angel, which he removed a few pages later...

Like either Aero/Fro99er are both scum or they are both town (most likely the later)

Why "most likely the latter" ?

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: Aeronaut

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

Why is RC scum?

Because her vote on me. She should know better.

Grossss
You can't expect any of us to relate to your personal knowlage of RC or his personal knowledge of you. This is subjective and not in any way a real argument.

You asked Dwlee for his reasoning. So why, when he gives his reasoning, do you discount it because it's personal knowledge rather than attempt to understand the reason itself? I think it's unreasonable that you would complain about the reasoning being un-relatable considering he only gave the reasoning because he was asked for it. Also, what does grossss mean in the context of a mafia game?

Sure. Here's the exact post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7188512

I was also scum in that game though, which means most of what I said was just BS

Not sure why this matters. Even if you were scum, it still remains true that you acknowledged him vote hopping in another game where he was town - yet voted him for similar behavior here.

Generally when town he gets into a townVtown and really flustered early on. Check Refraction Mafia if you want to see a good example of this, I almost had to replace him multiple times. As scum, he's really calm and quiet and non confrontational; check Delicious Mafia 2 if you want a good example of that.

Is this grossss?
Do you think Fro99er is aware of this tell?

[Wickedestjr]

Dwlee, you missed this question;

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

If you thought RC was probably scum, then why were you not voting him? Instead, you are sheeping Aero's page 1 "I don't like this post" vote for Frozen Angel, which he removed a few pages later...

[Wickedestjr]

Why "most likely the latter" ?

Because two scum wouldn't do that?

Why not?

[Wickedestjr]

I don't understand...

[Wickedestjr]

Are you jokingly referring to page 9?

If so, I can play along and try to come up with a funny response. Otherwise, I don't know what you're talking about.

[Wickedestjr]

No, RC

[Wickedestjr]

Guess I'm getting mislynched for the first time. *shrugs*

Why is that scummy pisskop?

[Wickedestjr]

Im not even a little interested in a repeat of last game. Im not holding it against you.

Context?

[Wickedestjr]

Fro99er, why the vote repeats?

[Wickedestjr]

Why is everyone here ignoring me? It's making this pretty boring...

And Dwlee is probably town.

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedestjr is the santa hat guy, I had to check their name. They seem to be active lurking with their last few posts or they're just lost.

I

am

somewhat lost. The only person that I suspect right now hasn't posted since I voted for him. Having said that, I asked each question for a reason and just because you don't see that reason doesn't mean I'm scum that's active-lurking...

Stop asking questions pls.

What should I do instead?

[Wickedestjr]

And Dwlee is probably town.

Why?

I'll answer this if you answer mine.

[Wickedestjr]

Cuz I'm breaking my town meta. Dwlee's scum.

This doesn't answer my question...

[Wickedestjr]

Fro99er, were you repeatedly voting Dwlee because;
- you wanted to get a reaction out of him
or
- you are especially confident in your vote and want to make that clear
or
- some other reason?

'Breaking your town meta' may be a characteristic of your repeat votes, but it doesn't explain to me why you chose to repeatedly vote for him.

Personally, I'm town reading Dwlee for his reaction to the votes and think the whole vote hopping conversation is just a big misunderstanding.

[Wickedestjr]

Not ignoring you RC. I asked you why you voted for me and

you

ignored

me

. Give me a friggin break, man.

Ignored an entire page of important game related content.

This is scum.

VOTE: Jestr

I don't understand...

Are you jokingly referring to page 9?

If so, I can play along and try to come up with a funny response. Otherwise, I don't know what you're talking about.

I'm about four pages behind, but I skimmed your iso and didn't see anything directed at me, so I assume you're talking about your vote.

[Wickedestjr]

You ignored deathnote basically scumclaiming - why?

I didn't ignore DeathNote's "scum claim" post. I was one of the only/first players to ask him about it, actually - so I have no idea why you are accusing

me

of ignoring it.

I didn't vote or express suspicion of him because I'm not sure it's a scum claim. Why would DeathNote-scum openly admit to being frustrated about something that he shouldn't be frustrated about as town?

[Wickedestjr]

Wow, that was quite a lot to catch up.

The impression I'm getting through the last several pages is that dwlee is scum caught for the wrong reason.
First there may have been some misinterpretation of his stance about vote hopping being scummy.
That got cleared up and he's taking heat for an opinion which goes against the grain a bit.
Having a position which is "wrong' compared to the norm isn't scummy per se, but the reaction certainly looks it.

VOTE: Dwlee99

This feels like opportunistic scum...

Unvote. Vote: davesaz

[Wickedestjr]

I'm not implying anything. I am just stating that you won't lynch me.

If you're not implying anything, then why are you stating that you won't get lynched?

[Wickedestjr]

I thought the traditional procedure was vote and then ask for a claim after enough people have voted... Why do two or three non-confirmed people have the authority to ask for someone's role claim in a sixteen player game?

Personally, I'm not ready for a claim but I

am

interested in seeing his answer to my question.

[Wickedestjr]

FWIW If he can't answer that question, then I support seeing a role claim.

[Wickedestjr]

I thought the traditional procedure was vote and then ask for a claim after enough people have voted... Why do two or three non-confirmed people have the authority to ask for someone's role claim in a sixteen player game?

Personally, I'm not ready for a claim but I

am

interested in seeing his answer to my question.

This could absolutely be scumpartners with DN.

Ignored the wagon when it started and is now dragging its feet and chainsawing hard.

Actually, I never ignored DN.

You

have been ignoring

me

.

If you are town, how about you answer my question about DN? (which I asked yesterday)

I'm opposed to seeing a role claim because I'm not yet convinced that he was softing. And un-necessary role claims are just foolish. I'm clearly trying to figure out if it was a soft or not.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't know what he could mean by that. But I'm not going to foolishly force a claim and make the assumption that he doesn't have a reasonable explanation if it actually wasn't a soft.

That is why I am actually giving him a chance;

I'm not implying anything. I am just stating that you won't lynch me.

If you're not implying anything, then why are you stating that you won't get lynched?

[Wickedestjr]

Why is it that I'm the first person to ask him that?

[Wickedestjr]

Are you though?

YES I am! I asked him to explain, how is that not giving him a chance?

I'd love for you to speculate on what possible answer he could have for "why are you stating that you won't get lynched?"

I have one idea for what he could say. But I'm not going to openly speculate because I want him to come up with his own answer. Our inability to come up with something doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a perfectly good explanation that we're missing.

I already said that I would support seeing a role claim from him if he couldn't give an answer that makes sense. I'm a cautious player - is that a problem? Do we really need to rush this? We have another week and half and role claiming is somewhat serious.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, DeathNote is town.

[Wickedestjr]

Right. I'm trying to figure out if there is actually an answer that u would think does make sense.

This is completely irrelevant because, as I said before;

Our inability to come up with something doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a perfectly good explanation that we're missing.

I think it would be very unfair for me to say "Well I can't think of any way for DeathNote to explain himself, so he must not have an explanation".

I'm a cautious player - is that a problem? Do we really need to rush this? We have another week and half and role claiming is somewhat serious.

See, pretty sure this is what RC is talking about w/ you misdirecting stuff back @ people.

I didn't misdirect anything. Why do you think that I did?

Also, you shouldn't listen to anything that RC says about me. We literally just finished a game where he incorrectly expressed certainty that I was scum. He literally has no idea how to read me and if he's town here, he's continuing to make that clear.

I'm going after you about this because I think YOU look scummy for it. Not because I'm admonishing you for slowing down his claim.

Well I seriously have no idea why this bothers you. I think my intent behind the question is pretty clear. There's no reason for me, as scum, to ask DN a useless question if I know there's no good answer that he can give. If I knew he couldn't give an answer, then why would I have asked the question?

[Wickedestjr]

Yea. I feel like he's just kind of commenting on things or asking random questions, not really giving conclusions.

Commenting on things and asking random questions is pretty much my play style. You can't assume my questions are random/pointless just because they aren't questions that you would have asked. I like my questions. What's the benefit for me, as scum, to ask questions that are pointless? To look like I'm being productive? Well, if I was scum that wanted to look productive, then I wouldn't ask questions that I think are pointless. Thus, you should trust that I actually value the questions that I'm asking.

not really giving conclusions.

I've publicly concluded that I think Dwlee/DN are town and I think davesaz looks scummy. I have a few other town reads, but I see no reason to reveal them right now. If you expect me to have other scum reads, then you'll have to wait a little longer - as I said before, I'm cautious and don't throw out scum team theories three days into a game.

I don't think i've played with him in awhile tbh; but I feel like he was so much more of a presence in past games.

Unless you have another alt that I don't know about, our only game together was over the summer. I'm actually posting a lot more here than I was in that game, so you might be misremembering. It probably seems like I have less presence because this is a large game and our other game was a mini game. I really don't know why you feel that I lack a presence here, though - I've actually complained about being ignored and also was the only person to voice opposition to the idea of DN role claiming - not things that I would do if I was trying to fly utr.

[Wickedestjr]

Am I going crazy about the scum slip..?

I don't think it's a scum slip.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, you shouldn't listen to anything that RC says about me. We literally just finished a game where he incorrectly expressed certainty that I was scum. He literally has no idea how to read me and if he's town here, he's continuing to make that clear.

Yeah well you lynched me you labia.

I'm not necessarily scum reading you right now, though. So if you're implying that I'm a hypocrite, you should stop.

[Wickedestjr]

You're a null read right now...

[Wickedestjr]

I don't think they're random, but it's common for me to get attacked for asking 'random questions' as town.

[Wickedestjr]

Am I going crazy about the scum slip..?

I don't think it's a scum slip.

But it is one. And now keyser is just being sarcastic and claiming that lynching me, regardless of alignment.
they never even said "it isnt a slip" they are just shrugging it off. Please wicked I need you on this. :/

Keyser could be scum, but I really don't think he slipped.

I can't envision scum accidentally posting/admitting to their win condition.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, DeathNote is town.

Why are you just declaring this?

I have a habit of just declaring things, sometimes. In this case, it was because of his post 653 which I interpreted as a serious role claim.

[Wickedestjr]

Spoiler: 177 and 229

Frozen Angel, yoo hoo, can I ask where you are from?

Why are you asking her about this?

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

If RC is probably scum, then why are you not voting him? Instead, you are sheeping Aero's page 1 "I don't like this post" vote for Frozen Angel, which he removed a few pages later...

Like either Aero/Fro99er are both scum or they are both town (most likely the later)

Why "most likely the latter" ?

Why "most likely the latter" ?

Because two scum wouldn't do that?

Why not?

[Wickedestjr]

a) if scum, you will be exposed for posting/pushing weak scum cases (your second one so far this game).
b) if town, you will be miss-lynched for posting weak scum cases.

It is a WIN-WIN for me. Not for you.

Keyser, can you explain why b is a win for you? I don't think you have explained this, yet. If you have, then a post number is all I need.

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedestjr want to do me a favor? please lynch yourself and/or stop being a literal and figurative weed.

First of all, I don't know what 'weed' means in this context. Maybe you could explain? I think I've been pretty nice this game (I generally try to be), so I'm not sure what the problem is or why you're insulting me right now.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, DeathNote is town.

Can you please explain this?

As I said last night, I initially townread him for post 653, which I interpreted and still interpret as a serious role claim.

Maybe I'm conf-biasing, but his subsequent posts (688 and 689) give me very good vibes too: his reaction to RC, his "I have no f-ing regrets" comment, his most-recent stance on meta, and his intention to stop playing after this game all seem really genuine. I have a really hard time believing that DN faked all of that...

[Wickedestjr]

If DeathNote is town, this seems like a pretty strong town tell from JarJar;

Oh I had no idea Tree Stump was an actual role. Just Wiki'd it.

So how does that work? It says he can't vote so doesn't his name appearing in the VC pretty much kill that?

To answer your questions... A tree stump has the ability to vote until they use their ability - so if DN's a tree stump, that's why we still see his name in the VC.

If a tree stump is about to get lynched, then that is when they use their stump ability. If Player A stumps, then the Mod will confirm that Player A is a tree stump and Player A's vote is removed, but he or she can still continue speaking. That's the advantage of the tree stump ability: we learn Player A's alignment but don't have to waste a lynch in the process. Make sense now?

And if you're taking that as a serious claim, can you answer this now?

I'd love for you to speculate on what possible answer he could have for "why are you stating that you won't get lynched?"

I have one idea for what he could say. But I'm not going to openly speculate because I want him to come up with his own answer.

My one idea was that he would say something along the lines of: "This case against me sucks and I know I'm going to convince you guys eventually". That answer wouldn't really make any sense in combination with his other self-deprecating comments, but you asked me to speculate so I did. FWIW tree stump also came to mind even though he explicitly said he wasn't implying anything with his comment.

HOWEVER, as I have explained several times:

it doesn't matter if I can come up with something

. When I have issue with something that someone has done, I don't vote for them and push for their lynch. I ask them about it because there's always a chance that I'm just misinterpreting something or that there's a possible explanation that I am missing (this is not a rarity). Town get mis-lynched all the time because of misunderstandings and, as a scum hunter, I wanted to give DeathNote a chance to provide some clarity to the situation. This is how I play the game and it's how I believe the game should be played... especially in situations where a player is being asked to claim their role - that is a big deal, JarJar. Again, what's the problem here?

Did you think his "treestump" roleclaim fully explained his

"I am just stating that you won't lynch me"

warning?
To then declare to the thread outright: "DeathNote is town", is a huge leap to make.

Yes, I think a tree stump role claim would explain his "I am just stating that you won't lynch me" warning. I think his tree stump role claim (or at least the post that I interpreted as a tree stump role claim) looked genuine because a.) it explained his "You won't lynch me" comment and b.) it's a pretty awful claim for him to make as scum (and no, I don't think he'd be WIFOMing).

DN was null and then I saw two things in short succession that made me think he was town. What is wrong with a huge leap?

Maybe I'm conf-biasing, but his subsequent posts (688 and 689) give me very good vibes too: his reaction to RC, his "I have no f-ing regrets" comment, his most-recent stance on meta, and his intention to stop playing after this game all seem really genuine. I have a really hard time believing that DN faked all of that...

Ok, I see defeated town, but why not

defeated scum

?

I think a scum's natural instinct is to just address the criticism and try to look like a normal scumhunter. But I think only a more-skilled scum tries to feign the emotion that they would be feeling if they were town. If DN is scum, I think he did a great job of faking this reaction and I just don't know that he's skilled enough to pull it off (maybe he is, I'm just guessing based on the impression that he doesn't seem to play much anymore). In particular, the intention to stop playing after this game makes a lot more sense if he's town, for two reasons: a.) if he's scum, then he could just avoid using meta this game and not complain about feeling obligated to use it and b.) it's a rarity for him to draw scum, so if he was actually frustrated-scum, then I'd think he'd just tough it out and hope to draw town next game (which he probably would).

[Wickedestjr]

Especially considering his question was

If you're not implying anything, then why are you stating that you won't get lynched?

cause if he believes that he was legit claiming treestump then obviously he WAS implying something.

Like, how can he really be satisfied w/ that answer?

It is mildly bothersome that he would say he wasn't implying something when he actually was. But I don't think it's suspicious. I could very easily see DN-towntree denying an implication in order to keep his role a secret.

Basically what I'm saying is that :

I'm not implying anything. I am just stating that you won't lynch me.

If you're not implying anything, then why are you stating that you won't get lynched?

Is basically Wicked asking for a roleclaim because there's no other good answer. And I wouldn't have a problem w/ asking for the claim obviously since I asked for it too. BUt his next post is:

I thought the traditional procedure was vote and then ask for a claim after enough people have voted... Why do two or three non-confirmed people have the authority to ask for someone's role claim in a sixteen player game?

Personally, I'm not ready for a claim

but I

am

interested in seeing his answer to my question.

JarJar, you're honestly starting to frustrate me right now. I have explained this several times and you keep ignoring my explanation. I know you think DN is scum, but you can't just assume that any resistance to his wagon or his claim is a partner. I think you're a townie suffering from conf-bias right now and you should be careful. FWIW, I'm not the kind of player to blatantly stick my neck out for a partner on day 1 and you have no reason to suspect me right now.

The first quote is

not

me asking for a role claim because I asked what he meant if he

wasn't

implying anything. I have gone over this multiple times. But yes, it does

look

like a blatant contradiction when you specifically paint it in that way, nice work.

[Wickedestjr]

I mean, I'm not. I just don't have a lot of solid case on him besides the fact that his posts feel fake as fuck. Which I guess is good enough for some people.

I have found that I am accused of sounding "fake as flip" a lot. This game is no exception - I am town speaking in the way that I normally speak. One past example: In the game that RC and I recently completed, he said at one point;

He's so fucking formal and rote and not fluid about it and it's fake as hell.

and the bolded portions of the post below should interest you;

Spoiler: Explanation

He's so fucking formal and rote and not fluid about it and it's fake as hell.

If you were to meta me, you'd see that this is how I always talk. This is probably the fourth or fifth time that I've been voted for my posting style (I have even encountered someone who was incorrectly

certain

that I was scum for my posting style). This is the way I speak and if you think I'm foolish enough to adopt a completely unique posting style as scum, then you are too ignorant.

Like, he makes a logical point. There's a logical sequence to follow.

But there's no feeling and no effort to directly tie it to the game.

Like, town in that situation would be all casting

Jestr's listing off things that I'm doing / have done that can be construed as scummy but he doesn't really tie it all together, doesn't put a bow up on it and finalize it.

He just lists scummy things about me and calls it a day because there isn't that extra step of him being town and thinking that I'm scum that brings it all together into his thought process.

Your post bothered me enough that I wasn't going to ignore it (I shouldn't ignore posts that bother me, should I?) but it also wasn't strong enough for me put you at L-1. I never even said that I'm scum reading you for it - I'm not leaning either way right now.

You are calling me scum for lack of feeling/effort/bow/finalization when I "saw something strange" on page 5. That's a lot of vague jargon that only reinforces your claim that you can't put this read into words.

And unfortunately, I'm a cautious/slow player, so you've already set your expectations too high if you want me finalizing anything at this stage of the game.

But thanks for trying...

You are also ignoring the context of my post: you had just replaced out. So my post wasn't written as a case against you for you to respond to (I thought you were out of the game at that point), it was written as points for everyone else to think about - I was curious if anyone else found it interesting.

When I first started playing on this site, I was less emotionally mature, I was easily angered by players that couldn’t see my perspective, and I occasionally demonstrated that anger in my posts. But this is a game and I came to realize that I don’t enjoy playing that way (and people don’t enjoy playing with me that way). So that is why I try to be calm and avoid showing too much feeling. I think I’ve done a pretty good job of it throughout the last three or four years and you’ll see the exact same posting style if you look at my recent games (as either alignment).

You say that you can’t see anything going on beneath the surface and no deeper thought, but 1. I don’t think I

ever

demonstrate what I’m thinking behind the scenes - if I’m not explicitly saying something, it’s

because

I don’t want to share it.

2. Be specific: what more should I have said in response to your replace out post to demonstrate deeper thought?

Final point. Originally, you said the problem was a rapid tone change, but your recent explanation has absolutely nothing to do with a “tone change”. So I’m not sure why you want to scum read me right now.

I'm not referencing this game to discredit RC (I don't have any issue with him not liking my tone/fake-sound in that game because he's not the first person to view me that way), I just think it's a very recent/relevant post for people that think I sound fake in this game. I don't have a better or more recent example to give you.

[Wickedestjr]

No opinions on any of the other stuff going on in the game at this point?

No, on page eight of a large game, I generally will not have many opinions to give.

[Wickedestjr]

I want to lynch Wicked because he's flat and evasive, cites a terrible meta incident where he actually fucking lynched me, and he keeps throwing shots from the side at the DN wagon.

In retrospect, it was kinda unfair/cheap of me to reference that game to discredit you. I was frustrated because it doesn't/didn't feel like you were making a fair effort to actually determine my alignment, so that reference was just my way of combating frustration without swearing or insulting you.

I still feel like you aren't giving me a fair chance in this game if you're town, don't appreciate you grouping me in the 'policy lynchables', and don't think I deserve to be called a labia.

But I do actually apologize for publicly mentioning that game to undermine you in this one.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked, JarJar: I don't mind you trying to sort each other, but there was a question on the table regarding speculation on DN's role (if any). "It" in the quote is the speculation...

My point is that it seems to hurt town more to press this than it helps. What's the scenario that it helps?

FWIW, I don't want to discuss this anymore and hope my posts on this page end the conversation about DN role claiming.

[Wickedestjr]

You lynched me in that game so whatever point you think you have it sucks.

That's irrelevant, though.

My point is that it feels like you didn't learn your lesson from that game, if you're town. You scum read me there and now you're, again, scum reading me here.

I scum read you there, but I'm not calling you scum and pushing for your lynch here.

There's the difference.

[Wickedestjr]

In retrospect, it was kinda unfair/cheap of me to reference that game to discredit you. I was frustrated because it doesn't/didn't feel like you were making a fair effort to actually determine my alignment, so that reference was just my way of combating frustration without swearing or insulting you.

Yeah well what fucking effort did you put to sort me last game?

You and Anti both fucking deathtunneling on town while scum were the only people pushing each other. No wonder I was confused as to who scum are.

I don't even recall seeing a case from you.

My vote for you was a POE-vote. And I tried asking you a lot of questions in that game, so don't say I didn't put effort in.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, I was just trying to apologize. Not trying to instigate a conversation about last game, just explaining why I got frustrated.

I don't want to continue having this conversation about a past game that nobody else cares about.

Even if your points are different in this game, I still just felt that you would be a little more hesitant this time... Perhaps I'm wrong.

[Wickedestjr]

Final thoughts before I go to sleep...
Aero, JarJar, DeathNote, Dwlee, Keyser, RC, and FA looking like town.
Nosferatu, Fro99er, Wake, and Nero are null.
Cow, dave, pisskop, and Zulfy looking like scum.

[Wickedestjr]

will today be the day I wrap Christmas presents?

[Wickedestjr]

Explain

Dwlee
Zulfy
PK

please.

Dwlee - as I said before, I liked his reaction to votes. Some other things I like: his extreme/quick read change on me (can’t see him doing that as scum), his treatment of the Keyser “slip” (everything about it feels genuine), and his lack of scum reads (doubt that he'd pretend to be lost, as scum).

Zulfy - his catch up posts made me think he was trying to blend in or avoid saying anything controversial. In particular, asking me why I don’t have any other opinions (beyond my vote choice) on page 8 seems like a question he’s asking out of obligation rather than genuine interest. I mean, seriously, why would he ask me why I’m not giving more thoughts on

page 8

when a.) there are thirty more pages now and I have given more thoughts and b.) it’s not like I was contributing less than everyone else - it’s weird that he would single me out like this. And then he calls me a "lurkasaurus that burps scum every time it speaks", yet he has no other questions to ask me or no other posts to attack. Feels like he’s just following the crowd.

Pisskop - this was mostly just a gut read. I just get the feeling that he’s trying to be townread by others.

[Wickedestjr]

@Keyser and JarJar-

Oh I had no idea Tree Stump was an actual role. Just Wiki'd it.

So how does that work? It says he can't vote so

doesn't his name appearing in the VC pretty much kill that?

If DeathNote is town, then I seriously doubt that JarJar-scum says the bolded. He wouldn’t make ask if DeathNote is confirmed scum if

he

was scum that knew DeathNote was town. So I think JarJar can only be scum if DeathNote is scum too.

I think that in general, I agree that you probably shouldn't ask for a claim until @ least L-1. But there has to be some exceptions. Like when someone claims a PR when there isn't that much of a wagon on them. I can't believe that people are accepting "I have a PR" as an actual defense. I'm probably more suspicious of the people that so easily bought into it.

You are slightly misrepping the situation, because I’m not town reading him for saying “I have a PR”. I’m town reading him for the specific power role that he hinted at. But I will say this;
-I agree that DN’s “you will not lynch me” was an awful thing for him to say.
-DN’s not scummy just because he misbehaved, because town misbehave all the time too. I don’t encourage his behavior, but at the same time, I think it’s indicative that he is town, so I’m going to townread him for it even though it was bad.

My one idea was that he would say something along the lines of: "This case against me sucks and I know I'm going to convince you guys eventually". That answer wouldn't really make any sense in combination with his other self-deprecating comments, but you asked me to speculate so I did. FWIW tree stump also came to mind even though he explicitly said he wasn't implying anything with his comment.

Not impressed w/ this explaination. (not that I expected a good one)

It. Doesn't. Matter. How many times do I have to explain that?

[Wickedestjr]

Final thoughts before I go to sleep...
Aero, JarJar, DeathNote, Dwlee, Keyser, RC, and FA looking like town.
Nosferatu, Fro99er, Wake, and Nero are null.
Cow, dave, pisskop, and Zulfy looking like scum.

How the hell am I null after 100 posts?

I don’t have any completed games with you, but based on what I do know about you, I get the impression you’re an especially skilled/experienced player as both alignments. I haven’t seen anything from you that I think would be especially difficult for scum-Fro99er to fake (am I wrong?) and the meta arguments that others are using to town read you are pretty dissatisfying. I will get a better read on you when you return from vacation and start posting more frequently. I have seen a few small things from you that I like, but I’m cautious to put you in my town pile and will need a few more weeks at least.

100% what JarJar just said. L-1 and claim is fine in general, but should not be a hard and fast rule.

Like, that's something you learn in newbie school but the game does evolve beyond newbie school.

In fact, half the things I learned in newbie school don't even really apply.

Eh, I still think it’s a good rule. The only reason for a person to claim is if we’re mass claiming or if they’re at risk of getting lynched. But we’re not mass claiming. And if a person’s not at L-3/L-2/L-1, then they’re not actually at risk of getting lynched either.

I realize wicked isn't here and that's because I have no idea where to place wicked. Wicked isn't really null as they've posted content, and I've seen some things I both like (reads list somewhat similar to mine) and dislike (null reading me (validated by robot null reading me)). I probably need to interact with wicked more.

As I said before, I’m a cautious player - especially when sorting the more experienced/skilled players like you. Caution is such a defining characteristic of my town game that I went out of my way to replicate it (to an extent) in my last scum game too. I’m fine with you putting me in the null pile, but I don’t think you should be concerned about me null reading you.

Wicked, why are you town reading DeathNote?

See my responses to Keyser in 889 - this post pretty much includes all of my thoughts pertaining to DeathNote.

Wicked, I asked about DN town but also why is Zulfy scum? I can't get a read on Zulfy.

Have you played with Zulfy before? See my response to RC (986).

[Wickedestjr]

davesaz, can you please explain the bolded parts of this quote;

Pisskop had a little burst of activity and

faded when it didn't yield anything.

I have never seen him fail to attack something as town. It might not be a good attack and I usually scumread him for it, but

it's consistent. The fact he's not doing anything speaks even louder than not doing anything that I would see as scummy.

?

[Wickedestjr]

Okay so I was wrong about Zulfy. He is probably town now.

Yes, his case is horrible, but that doesn't make him scum. I don't see any motivation for Zulfy-scum to make that case. Reading through it, I also think he genuinely believes in it, so I don't want to lynch him for it.

(more soon)

[Wickedestjr]

V/LA for Wednesday through Sunday

[Wickedestjr]

If DeathNote is town, then I seriously doubt that JarJar-scum says the bolded. He wouldn’t make ask if DeathNote is confirmed scum if

he

was scum that knew DeathNote was town. So I think JarJar can only be scum if DeathNote is scum too.

My basic understanding of your point is that: '

scum would not defend town

', but only '

scum would defend scum

'. Is this correct?

Um, I don't think so. JarJar was wondering if DeathNote was conf-scum or not. I was pointing out that JarJar wouldn't be wondering that if he was scum and knew DeathNote was not scum. Thus: JarJar is very likely town if DeathNote is town.

[Wickedestjr]

Pisskop had a little burst of activity and faded when it didn't yield anything. I have never seen him fail to attack something as town. It might not be a good attack and I usually scumread him for it, but it's consistent. The fact he's not doing anything speaks even louder than not doing anything that I would see as scummy.

eww. Can you do me a solid and read my scum meta?

its all in the wiki.

This is why I dont play every game in the same way.

So, question here. What's your actual reason for voting me? Could it be that I'm right and you need to get rid of the only person who sees you're scum?

I have trouble envisioning dave-scum say this to pisskop-town. This could be scum distance theatre - dave is unusually confident.

[Wickedestjr]

Ok, now answer me who is scum.

I find it odd you have zero concrete scum reads of your own (just some sheeped ones) given I could lynch like 6-7 people right now.

Why would Dwlee-scum choose not to have any concrete scum reads, though? And why isn't it plausible for Dwlee-town to be struggling? I've had a few games where I couldn't get solid day 1 scum reads for the life of me, so I can relate. It's a perfectly reasonable issue for Dwlee-town and a weird strategy for Dwlee-scum, so I don't think this is a good reason to suspect him. I also don't think that Dwlee-scum would play this way...

I find it bizarre that you're talking like Daves has already scum flipped.

Except I'm not.

But way to set me up as a mislynch tomorrow.

If you weren't talking like Dave had already scum flipped, then why did you assume that RC was setting you up for a mis-lynch today? (because his point against you is only valid if dave is scum)

[Wickedestjr]

DeathNote can you (pretty please) tell me the date and time that you told your neighbors that you are bulletproof?

[Wickedestjr]

Actually, DeathNote, you don't have to answer that.

But I would like an answer to this;

You said that you were deliberately ambiguous about your role because you wanted to "lure the nightkill". If that's true, then why did you tell your neighbors that you were bulletproof (especially considering you suspected dave)?

[Wickedestjr]

My setup thoughts;
1. Almost certainly just one team - probably three members. Maybe an SK.
2. The neighborhood could certainly have more than one scum. No reason to discount that possibility. I've been in a game where a two-person neighborhood was occupied by two scum partners.

[Wickedestjr]

Fro99er what do you think of my 1529?

There's zero chance this is a three person scum team. How do you get that?

I haven't been in a fifteen/sixteen player game in a long time, but I remember three scum being the norm. Two scum is certainly too little. But four scum seems like too many, given that we only have seven (or less) lynches. You think it's four scum? Because seven lynches to hit four scum doesn't seem right, even if we have a few power roles.

Even less of a chance the three person scum team has two in the neighborhood. But it reads like you want us to suspect groupscum is in the neighborhood.

I never said that Wake or DeathNote must be scum. All I said is that we shouldn't discount that possibility. One scum in a three person neighborhood is probably the standard expectation, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if AP wanted to get tricky and add two scum to a neighborhood - that doesn't disrupt setup balance at all, so no reason for him not to.

When I see people incorrectly ruling them out, of course I'm going to challenge them. Should I not?

DN is not scum with Davesaz, that's for sure. So you're saying Wake could be scum with Dave in a 3 person scum team?

Yeah.

And I don't believe you really thought of treestump. I believe you are claiming you thought of treestump since that's what DN said earlier.

Like treestump never crossed my mind for a moment until DN said it because treestump is not normal and not even really used all that often as one of the non-normal roles in a normal game.

Fro99er, we have no completed games together. You know

nothing

about me. So what makes you think you can judge what I'm capable of thinking? "I didn't think of it, so you couldn't" is pretty insulting in a game where I've already gotten zero respect. Tree stump is literally the one role that cannot get lynched next to innocent child (and it doesn't lose value by getting revealed), and I recently saw a game (which I can't talk about) that has included it, so yeah it was on my mind.

Also, you might be the kind of player to WK someone...

That was such a long drawn out defense of DN on D1. Like you knew he wasn't groupscum aligned and you used the evidence to fit an already known read that he's not groupscum.

I have WK'd once before... as an IC. Bussing a newbie partner just seems unethical.

It was long and drawn out because JarJar kept asking me questions about it, not because I knew he was town. Keep in mind that all I said was "Okay DeathNote is town" without giving reasoning and

then

JarJar provoked most of my other defensive posts.

I have a tendency to defend lynch-bait townies against bandwagons and I think this game is the same (pretty sure Dwlee and Zulfy are also town despite all the negative attention they've gotten). I think identifying lynch-bait townies is one of my only strengths as a scum hunter but I get attacked for it all the time and it's pretty frustrating. If you think I'm scum for defending a suspicious-looking townie, then you are basically saying "Wicked can't be right about this if I'm wrong" which is an unfair assumption to make.

I think he was trying to diffuse things with you, which is what I'd probably do if I was scum and you were in the game.

Or... you know... I'm a human being trying to play a game (with the intent of having fun) and I felt like I had inadvertently been unfair/unethical to another human being... I can't enjoy a game as much if I feel that someone dislikes or is angered by me.

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: pisskop

RC, I agree with you that Zulfy's vote and case and backtrack don't make any sense - however why does that make him scum? Why does he do that as scum? Personally I can envision Zulfy being inexperienced town that just wasn't thinking it through correctly. You have a tendency to go after people that vote for you and you have made it clear that FA is your friend - Zulfy is probably aware of those things - so if you're town, I also don't think Zulfy-scum would try to make you his enemy by pushing you and your friend in the first place.

[Wickedestjr]

Why is it idiotic of me to think that this setup consists of one scum team with three members? I've been told that this has zero chance of being true, but with no explanation and I haven't seen an alternative suggestion.

[Wickedestjr]

Just because they have a neighbor doesn't mean the rest of their team is weak though. I don't think I've ever played a 16 player game, but all the fifteen player games I've seen have had three scum. 16 and 15 are functionally very similar imo...

If you disagree with me, then what do you think the setup is? Four mafia?

[Wickedestjr]

You know what, I actually have been in a sixteen player game before. And it had three scum and a traitor. So that could very well be it.

Could be three with an SK too.

I am still pretty confident that it's not four mafia, though.

[Wickedestjr]

k cuz read on FA is based entirely on fucking alignment related info.

I'm not fucking defending someone because their my friend and I would never fucking defend someone for being my friend.

I can play the damn game, thanks.

But at the time of Zulfy's case, IIRC, you appeared to be town reading FA and had defended her to an extent already. My point was that I think you are more likely to fight back at Zulfy for attacking you/FA than you would if he had attacked you and some other town read that you care about less.

And, as I said before, the other half of my point: Zulfy should know that you're going to fight back if he's pushing a case against you.

I don't see Zulfy-scum wanting to get involved in an argument with you (a popular town read and aggressive player) if you're town - especially considering he'd have lost a member already.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't feel like reading twelve pages right now. Taking a step back for now and will start at 1610 when I get back.

[Wickedestjr]

V/LA for Wednesday through Sunday

You get back here! I still got another case to unload.

I'm V/LA but I'm still following along and if you post a case against me, I won't miss it.

(pretty sure Dwlee and Zulfy are also town despite all the negative attention they've gotten).

I thought you were V/LA
You must have some ultrasensible heart strings if you can flip your scumreads so easily. +1.

V/LA started today.
I've been town reading Dwlee for almost the whole game. I don't think I ever scum read him.

My scum read on you was never a strong one and changing my mind is pretty normal - trust me I've experienced more abrupt read-changes than this. Not to mention: there's very little scum motivation for me to start town reading you only after others started pushing for your lynch.

[Wickedestjr]

Weve played a few games, and I know they are an alt, but I cant for the life of me pin down how to reliably read them without reading.

You 'know' that I am an alt? That's really interesting considering I am

not

an alt.

Please tell me: who am I an alt of? I'm genuinely curious who you think I am.

Whoever it is, you should probably forget about them because they are not me.

[Wickedestjr]

So nosti, zulfy, wicked, and now dwlee. Add in Mollie and thats all of us

Nosferatu is like conftown dude.

Why are you scumreading Wicked?

dont townread /=/ scumread.

Im having meta problems with them.

You have meta problems with Wicked?

Explain.

Why have you brought this forth sooner.

I mean that I haent picked up and any tells I can use against them.

Weve played a few games, and I know they are an alt, but I cant for the life of me pin down how to reliably read them without reading.

I assumed you were talking about me because of this... But I guess you were talking about Nos?

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, can you do things related to game content? dont be a mollie

I'm V/LA and trying to catch up...

Making sure that you don't think I'm someone else seems pretty game relevant. Sorry if I just misinterpreted...

[Wickedestjr]

No opinions on any of the other stuff going on in the game at this point?

No, on page eight of a large game, I generally will not have many opinions to give.

I guess I just figured you had an opinion on the FA wagon/DeathNote's entrance/Fro99er's vote/AeroFro99er's mutual townread
But hey, when it's page 8 (!!!) of a large game? (!!!) Then yea I can see why you'd just uhhhh go ahead and ignore that.
+2

I didn't ignore "DeathNote's entrance" nor did I ignore "AeroFro99er's mutual townread". As for the "FA wagon" and "Fro99er's vote", I have zero recollection so it must not have been interesting or telling in my mind. If I haven't commented on something, it's either because I don't have an opinion or I have nothing original to bring to the table.

Why is it scummy that I didn't give opinions on page 8?

I think I've shown that I'll speak my mind when it's regarding something I actually care about.

Yea. I feel like he's just kind of commenting on things or asking random questions, not really giving conclusions.

Commenting on things and asking random questions is pretty much my play style. You can't assume my questions are random/pointless just because they aren't questions that you would have asked. I like my questions. What's the benefit for me, as scum, to ask questions that are pointless? To look like I'm being productive? Well, if I was scum that wanted to look productive, then I wouldn't ask questions that I think are pointless. Thus, you should trust that I actually value the questions that I'm asking

Complete garbage mate.
Using your own logic, whether you are scum or town, you would ask questions that aren't pointless.

When you're scum, you're incapable of doing that.
+2 for this argument, one point for it's illogicality and the other for its irrelevance.

No, you're misreading. My logic is: whether I am scum or town, I would ask questions that

I think

are good.

Scum aren't incapable of asking good questions. That's actually pretty easy.

I'm not being illogical

or

irrelevant.

[Wickedestjr]

Geesh. This thread.

Still (perpetually) about five pages behind.

Can we

please

treat this like a game?

[Wickedestjr]

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

[Wickedestjr]

Ugh... Finally caught up with this...

happy new year wicked plz don't be lurkey scum this I am out of mind with paranoia right now

you're not compromising onto one of my TRs

then again Wicked completely disappeared when I said I TRed him which is sketch as fuck.

Seriously? My busyness has nothing to do with you town reading me - I don't lurk. Not my fault that this thread exploded right around the time I went V/LA. Give me a break, please. At least I'm actually reading - that's more than can be said about several others who have become entirely non-existant.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, can you talk to me about your reads and shit?

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

HEY.

Talk to me here.

What's going on, reads?

I'll answer this soon.

[Wickedestjr]

mollie, can you (pretty please) just ignore pisskop? It takes two to make an argument (or a 70 page spam-fight for that matter).

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: For what it's worth, I agree that he's been unfair to you. I just don't see the point in continuing to ask him to answer your questions when he just continues to say that he already has (and continues to call you scum for asking him).

[Wickedestjr]

Here's where I'm at.

Dwlee- strongest town read

Probably town
{Fro99er, RC}

Leaning town
{JarJar, Zulfy, Keyser}
and
pisskop- not a bad lynch, even though I think he’s town

DeathNote- probably not mafia, not interested in lynching him

Neutral
{Nero Cain, TheCow, Nosferatu, Mollie}
and
Wake- I don’t care if he’s a neighbor, that doesn’t mean squadoosh

Unvote.

No, I don’t have any confident scum reads at this point. I’m going to try fixing that- will look at the neutral people and cast a vote there soon.

[Wickedestjr]

Mollie: PLEASE ignore pisskop. Your conversation with him is proven to be going nowhere. He’s not going to answer your questions.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

You keep asking him for answers and he keeps not answering.

So please do everyone a favor and stop!

pisskop has shown that he’s inconsiderate towards you and the town as a whole. Show me that you aren't, Mollie.

If you continue this endless argument with him (that never was and still isn't moving forward), then I’ll have no choice but to vote for you. Because I think you’re more likely to be scum and this argument is incredibly harmful to this game.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, if Im a stronger townread than mollie and outside of mollie my content has thusly, been enough to earn me a townread, why were you vote-parking and trying to justify a lynch on me over this nullread that is mollie?

Several reasons.
1. You weren't a townread until 15-25 pages ago.
2. I'm not town reading you for your 'content'.
3. Parked my vote and didn't do anything with it because I've been V/LA and haven't been able to keep up with this thread until today. (I've said this several times).

[Wickedestjr]

@wicked: explanation for why dwlee is the strongest town read or link to previous post?

how the fuck is dweelee your #1 townread?

I thought his reaction to votes on early day 1 looked really genuine. In general, nothing about his play looks like someone trying to survive. I think he would be contributing more if he were scum and I don't see any scum motivation for him to have struggled with reads on day 1. The only thing that confuses me slightly is that he said he liked my questions (after previously criticizing them). However, I don't think he'd forget criticizing my questions if he were scum and I don't see scum motivation behind him town reading me.

[Wickedestjr]

Here's where I'm at.

Dwlee- strongest town read

Probably town
{Fro99er, RC}

Leaning town
{JarJar, Zulfy, Keyser}
and
pisskop- not a bad lynch, even though I think he’s town

DeathNote- probably not mafia, not interested in lynching him

Neutral
{Nero Cain, TheCow, Nosferatu, Mollie}
and
Wake- I don’t care if he’s a neighbor, that doesn’t mean squadoosh

Unvote.

No, I don’t have any confident scum reads at this point. I’m going to try fixing that- will look at the neutral people and cast a vote there soon.

this is awful

explain your reads.

I have to go now, but I will explain more when I get back. What other reads do you want to know about?

[Wickedestjr]

What are the odds that wicked and nero are scum together and they coordinated their claims?

Not as high as I think you think, but well within the realm of possibility.

I dont know how well they know each other. But if they are chummy I dont see why not. Rolecop isnt a super common role.

I recognized his username, but pretty sure Nero and I have never played with each other before.

[Wickedestjr]

There's no way Nos is 14. I'm seeing some really strong 15 year old tells from him.

But that's a topic of discussion for day 3.

[Wickedestjr]

Glad to see that we probably hit scum today.

I feel like my last list is on the right track and I'll be looking at the other players in that "neutral" group soon.

[Wickedestjr]

also fairly sure that Wicked is town even though he's an absentee fuck.

Sorry for being an "absentee f***" when I go (site wide) V/LA and then thread explodes. At least I actually managed to read it all.

Seriously, give me a break dude. My V/LA pretty much just ended, now I'm here. I don't need multiple people critiquing my effort level when I still managed to contribute more than several other players in this day phase, even while

I

was V/LA.

---

I still feel pretty comfortable with my 3687 (also spoiled below) even though it was 32 pages ago. A Nero scum flip would give me even more confidence in it.

Spoiler: Read list

Here's where I'm at.

Dwlee- strongest town read

Probably town
{Fro99er, RC}

Leaning town
{JarJar, Zulfy, Keyser}
and
pisskop- not a bad lynch, even though I think he’s town

DeathNote- probably not mafia, not interested in lynching him

Neutral
{Nero Cain, TheCow, Nosferatu, Mollie}
and
Wake- I don’t care if he’s a neighbor, that doesn’t mean squadoosh

Unvote.

No, I don’t have any confident scum reads at this point. I’m going to try fixing that- will look at the neutral people and cast a vote there soon.

I explained my Dwlee read already in 3702.

My to-do list;
-Take another look at my other neutral reads.
-Re-look at Zulfy.
-If and when Nero flips scum, take a look at his interactions.


I'll be online for a little while tonight if anyone has questions for me.

[Wickedestjr]

I had a gut town read on FA early in the game, but it faded to neutral after seeing her late day 1 and early day 2 posts. Nothing from your quarrel with pisskop made me think you were town or scum. When I originally posted that read list, the argument was still going on (or just grinding to a halt).

In retrospect: a.) I'll admit that I like your posts after the altercation ended. You seem comfortably focused right now and your town bloc thing reminds me of your play in our last game together (where I knew that you were town). b.) If and when Nero flips scum, that makes me feel much better about you too - iirc you were one of the first ones to call him scummy.

TL;DR - yeah... You're actually in the "Probably town" category, now that I've actually given this more thought.

Thanks for asking me.

[Wickedestjr]

I'll post here tomorrow morning/afternoon.

[Wickedestjr]

Thanks Titus and Firebringer for replacing in!

I'm about to post.

[Wickedestjr]

idk about nero it seems like he genuinely believes his nonsense.

Mollie is anti-town and not necessarily helpful but nothing from her is straight scummy, you're calling her out more for the absence of town play.

Nero is scummy and manipulative flat out, and there's little town in his play either. He's getting lynched.

tru
UNVOTE: Mollie
VOTE: Nero
if a mollie wagon so much as has a glint of happening I'm switching right back.

Can you explain what in RC's post made you change your mind?

VOTE: Firebringer

This is priority lynch No. 1 I'm pretty sure.

I would take a bullet for FB.

Can you explain why you had such a strong gut read at this point? Which posts?

it doesn't help that both slots have been lazy and apathetic but wicked did post before the end of the previous day round so there is that. we just need to find a way to get him engaged and focused.

I was V/LA for most of yesterday.

I'll be engaged.

RadiantCowbells

, why did you think that town's only investigative power was a 2-shot cop? Doesn't that seem kinda weak?

pisskop

, I'm not understanding the "slip", even though you've talked about it a lot. Are you saying that Zulfy slipped that he knows I'm town? I've read the string of posts several times and don't see where Zulfy indicates having that knowledge.

Firebringer

, you said that you had a gut scum read on RC. But when asked what gave you that gut feeling, you reference a post that RC made

after

you voted for him. Anything that bothered you before voting him?

[Wickedestjr]

pisskop, I'm not understanding the "slip", even though you've talked about it a lot. Are you saying that Zulfy slipped that he knows I'm town? I've read the string of posts several times and don't see where Zulfy indicates having that knowledge.

He knows who nero investigated, but not the result? How would he think Nero is a cop but read the post where he claims to hve visited you and got a 'miller' result?

Where did he say he didn't know the result?

When Zulfy called Nero a cop in 4468, I don't think he actually thought Nero was just a cop. I think he knew Nero was a role cop, but categorized his claim as "cop" because role cop is a type of cop - he indicates that in 4477 where he says, "He did claim cop. Role cop". Doesn't look like a slip to me.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked, If I could, I wouldn't say Gut.

Can you explain, please?

I'm not seeing it

at all

.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't.

That's why I think it's not a slip. "Cop" and "role cop" are not mutually exclusive descriptors.

P-edit: he said that after the 'slip', but I believe that's what he meant all along. That's how I read his 'slip' post...

[Wickedestjr]

:[

Thats a pretty bad mistake to make, given the similar names. When I refer to a rolecop Ill say RC or rolecop. Because its not a cop. And when we're discussing a cop its all the worse.

But we treated Nero's claim as a cop claim by lynching him. We lynched him because his 'cop' claim was cc'd by RC.

[Wickedestjr]

We shouldnt have, and I didnt. I put my faith into RC.

Fair enough. I can see why you read it that way, but I'm reading it as a misunderstanding.

[Wickedestjr]

Here's where I'm at right now...

Comfortably town reading: Dwlee99, Keyser, pisskop, Titus

Slight town lean: DN, mollie

Neutral;
Firebringer (didn't like Cow's most recent catchup post, not sure why he earned town credit for it)
JarJar (felt good about his day 1 stuff, the town read has kinda faded though)
Nosferatu
RC (I was strong town reading him yesterday, but am reconsidering after Nero's flip and today's events)
Wake (I like his replace out, but that's the only positive thing I can say)

[Wickedestjr]

Not opposed to lynching RC today. But I'm also not ready for the day to end just yet.

[Wickedestjr]

Normally I'd support letting the cop claim survive to investigate again, but it seems very unlikely that he'll have a result for us tomorrow even if he's town.

I'll be honest, even though I am skeptical of RC, I wasn't aware that two investigative roles in one large game was the big no no that people are describing it as.

the passed normal review and I am pretty sure ether is still the 1 who is reviewing normals I am telling you it wldn't have passed.

Do you have any evidence of Ether being opposed to two cop setups?


If we're setup speccing, one issue I have with RC is that a 2-shot cop just seems kinda out of place / random. I can't understand RC thinking he's the only investigative role in a large normal when he only has two shots...

On the other hand, I'm struggling to see RC-scum make this play too.

[Wickedestjr]

pisskop shld not in anyway shape or form be a townread for you, do you think deathy is an sk and I waffle on dwlee. wake is likely town since there has already been a scum neighbour flip.

if pisskop and rc are town and we lose cos of their shit play I am gonna be pissed.

pisskop - I wasn't a fan of his day 2 play, either. But have trouble seeing him behave that way as scum.

DeathNote - He's confused me. He claimed BP and neighbor but (iirc) indicated that there was something more to his role that he wasn't revealing. He might be an SK - that wouldn't surprise me - he wouldn't have wanted to shoot last night after all the paranoia surrounding his claim. SK might also explain his apathy. If he claimed vigilante, I wouldn't believe it for a second because he doesn't appear to be shooting. I'm pretty sure he's not mafia and that's good enough for me until we start seeing two kills per night.

Dwlee - He's my strongest town read. (explained in 3702) He's admittedly, not doing much right now, but I would be really shocked if he flipped scum. If I die tonight, please don't lynch him.

Wake - I've been in a normal game with a two-person neighborhood that contained two scum partners. Doesn't mean that's what's happening here, but I'm proceeding with caution. No interest in lynching him today or tomorrow.

[Wickedestjr]

no wicked, it is just things that ether has discussed in site chat and I have a feel for how she thinks.

Okay, I'll take your word for it.

if there is a doubt in your mind that I am not town then freaking lynch me cos I am so fucking done with this game.

Not interested in lynching you...

Why do you think RC-scum makes this play?

[Wickedestjr]

We are letting rc use their shot. It is the optimal play

If he's town, he's just gonna get role blocked anyway.