Mafia 23: Siege of San Quida - Game over!

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fos: JDTAY

, because I don't care for animated avs (except for Talitha's which I think is cute)

vote: Yanqush

, somewhat random, he killed me in the last mini we were in together ^_^ ;_;

Oh and out of town til Monday, going to a cousin's wedding ^_^

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Just got back from the wedding, it was fun but very tiring ^_^.

unvote: yanqush

, for obvious reasons, plus he's right, he didn't kill me, I was killed the night after he got lynched (Family mini 63, yes I do remember it ^_^). So my apologies for forgetting the details ^_^

I think I'll wait for carmine in the meantime, oh and the major issue with a cop coming out on the first day is that it essentially leaves everyone else open to killing as only the revealed cop is protected. Which means other roles can be killed with impunity, such as role blockers, other investigators, doctors, masons, vigilantes, etc. And this is without confirmation of sanity.

I suppose that one could take the lynch as confirmation, but if the lynchee is indeed guilty then that is still not prove of sanity as paranoid is as likely, in my book. Additionally, if this is a sacrificing gambit (i.e. one mafia sacrificing another), essentially the mafia will have won at least a few nights with no chance of being blocked, which is an exchange that I might be willing to make if I was mafia in a medium sized game. Suffice to say, this turn of events is not the most pleasing to me even if carmine is scum.

fos: carmine and pops

for now, 9 votes is too quick to quick lynch for my liking, there were a few other things that made me irritable, but I can't remember right now, at least it woke me up some ^_^

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vote: carmine

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I've never been entirely good at playing sheep following a cop, so

vote: popsicle

, from his actions yesterday.

The auction seems to be an interesting game mechanic, hopefully we see more of it later on, if for no other reason then to see how it works.

Looking at the posts of the two who died, there doesn't seem to be anything at all. The only vote was for the other (fg for morph), so nothing to go off from that. I can only suppose that the mafia were trying to kill anyone that was lying low, no one even commented on them very much *sigh* I hate having very little to work with.

Hmm, looking over the deaths, none of them match each other. Specifically, I can't understand how something large enough to eat a mafia member would also craft cement shoes or pose as a piano tuner. For now at least, I'm going to assume the worst and think there are three killing groups, either that or an over-active vigi, which I doubt.

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DP and gashly: True, the thing that makes me doubt the eater took part last night is that it killed mafia on the first night. Usually the kill change occurs when one of the mafia dies and the task falls to another of the mafia, to my reading at least. Combine this with the generic term mafia and I would be inclined to think sk, but I feel it is difficult to equate eating someone with posing as a piano tuner. So either two groups (each with varying kills and one of them 'not mafia', pirates perchance, every game should have a pirate ^_^) or one group and two sks imo. I suppose that it is possible that it is only one sk, but to my eye the methods are too dissimilar.

I've seen luckier things then a blocked kill on the first two nights and worse play then a vig kill on night two for no reason (I've been killed on the first night by a vig before, so I never discount vig possibilities, no matter how . . . unhelpful it would have been for them to do so).

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FOS: Tigris

Her posting style is suddenly different than any game I've played with her or seen her play. Casting the last vote without some sort of "hesitation post" and opening today with an FOS.

It's because I was irritated ^_^, I don't enjoy it when games devolve into follow the cop, so seeing everyone posting for the sole purpose of saying they are waiting for Yoko was irksome to me. Additionally, I did kindof have a "hesitation post", when I only fosed carmine and pops, but not really. The lynch was a foregone conclusion, so since no one seemed to want to discuss things further, I felt a new day might allow for more discussion.

As to the debate about number of killing groups, I still think there are three and will likely continue to for a while, if for no other reason then the philosophy of 'If you plan for the worst, all surprises are pleasant.'

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I have a lurking suspicion about a few people, but I can't pinpoint why very well right now, so pursuing them is likely not the best of ideas as it will only make them more careful.

One point that should be made (and if it makes me suspicious, fine), Yoko's past two investigations are not 100% certain, imo, as the henchman role seems to protect his counterpart from coming up as guilty to an investigation (if I am reading it correctly), so it's possible that one of the two investigatees are the sk, but that's a worry for a different day. I just wanted to point it out in the chance that I die tonight.

*shrug*

vote: dragonmaster

, I would like more content from him, but since he is fairly new (via post count), I'm not terribly concerned, so this is largely to keep the game moving forward, so that I can keep an eye on a few people.

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unvote: dragon

I'm trying to figure out why I suspect certain people, but can't put anything even remotely resembling a reason. It's somewhat frustrating, but my instincts are telling me one thing and the evidence another thing entirely.

GC left us with little to go with, only voted for by cubs and gashly and only voted for scum. It's small enough of a string to cling to, but looking over each of their posts

vote: gashly

her posts strike me as stranger, especially the jumping around on silent people, right up to GC and then unvoting 5 minutes later after he (GC) posts. It's small, but more then I can find on others right now, unfortunately.

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Personally, I wouldn't mind the slightly faster pace that a deadline might initiate, but part of that might be because I'm on more often then usual due to my mini, so it's up to you ^_^

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*pokes the thread* Okay, so we have four scum dead and 12 people left, we're in really good shape, but we need more conversation ^_^

Green Crayons was the Henchman - though possessed of no special abilities of her own, she provided her boss with protection and anonymity while alive.

Anonymity means that the sk could fade into the background so long as GC was still alive. I'm happy with where my vote currently resides, but Cubs was a close second of those I could find stuff in their posts that felt off, so adding this latest post doesn't help his standing in my eyes much

fos: cubs

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Even a random lynch is better then a no lynch at this point, no lynch gives us no information whereas with a lynch we at least have the votes and reasoning to look at.

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He's been really busy to my understanding, so it may be a while if we wish to wait for him. Without the threat of a deadline, I still feel comfortable where my vote is, so ^_^

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Thief probably turned the thiefee into a thief, not necessarily a killing role. We might very well only have the sk remaining, but I wouldn't bank on it.

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We are in a really good position now as the town. We have 5 scum dead and only 5 pro-town dead. We likely only have 1-2 scum remaining, so let's not mess it up by not discussing things. Night one through 3 are likely not great for investigative, but last night we probably didn't have any role that could avoid detection (and we likely only had one during 1-3 (excepting Uraj of course)). So we can narrow things down with a few investigation results and then go from there.

Alternatively, using the last three lynch mobs is probably a good tactic (yes I realize that I didn't vote for Uraj, so if suspicion comes upon me for that, fine, at least it might help discussion). Problem with that though is the SK can easily fall through the cracks in that as they have no reason not to vote for mafia (as they wouldn't know who it was). If nothing else, a lurker hunt might be in order as there seem to be quite a few quiet people unfortunately

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Right, two days without a post and this will make three of the last four posts in the span of three days mine. *sigh*

Mod-deadline please.

vote: whoever is lurking the most

I'll take a bit of time tomorrow morning to figure that out.

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Okay, life got too hectic, so as opposed to morning, it's night of a few days later, *sigh* my apologies.

The vibe I'm getting from dm is more townieish then anything else, but he isn't really contributing too much, so if I might ask for a prop, I would appreciate it. ^_^

fos: corsato

com'on post ^_^, tis a fos poke and nothing more really. I have a few lurking suspicions, but then again DP was high on my suspicious list, so . . . nothing I could tag him with though and he did turn out to be town it appears. I'll try to post some more tomorrow, but Thursday and Friday I'm REALLY busy, so . . . Have fun ^_^

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Meh, anything is better then no lynch. At least night will give us a slightly better chance of knowing how many scum (i.e. via the kill number) there are left as it would be too risky for the mafia to feign elimination.

vote: dm

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I am almost positive that we only have one evil left, namely the sk. After hearing any night investigation results, it might not be a bad idea to be a partial claim from those people find suspicious. If nothing else it will help participation, which has been lagging.

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Might we know what your choices were?

Sidepoint, this is getting somewhat ridiculous. I am working 10+ hours every single day, yet am still posting more then most. The sad thing is that it feels like this on most of the games I'm in. We already have two role claims and I'm a hair away from claiming just to get something started. Yes, I'm kinda *cough* right now, but it's irritating to play a game with no one contributing.

The sk might have missed his/her choice last night, or alternatively a doc could have gotten lucky. There are numerous possibilities, yet nothing is being talked about. Looking over the player list, I would wager on the sk not getting the choice in as I don't see that many active people on the list and it would take 2+ active people for any other scenario. We likely have four lynches left to catch 1 evil with no dead docs and an outed cop. This should be simple. [rant over, for now]

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If nothing is going to get this town to move, fine, I'll ensure that I'm not a part of it tomorrow. Whomever the sk might be, target me tonight. You'll find out that I'm the doc, or at least one of them. Unfortunately I didn't get my choice in last night, hence why I'm fairly sure that a protection didn't save someone.

If this doesn't get at least a few people posting, maybe stating that I will vote for the worst lurker about this time tomorrow and given how many people are posting, that person is quite likely to be lynched.

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Let's count here shall we? 13 (14 including this one) posts since day started (6 days ago) and 3/4 are mine, with 9 people alive and my posts mainly with the intent of pushing others to actually post. And 5/6 posts after mine in less then a day. So eight posts in 5 days, five of which were not mine. This game started about 20 days after my mini and has almost 200 less posts with 7 more players at the start. 220 posts (subtracted the mods) in almost four months is ridiculous.

So instead of allowing the town to poke and meander their way to another deadline lynch, I felt lighting a fire under us would be better and coincidently enough would get me out of a game that is irritating me (no offense intended to the mod, as it is not your fault in the slightest). Disagree with my methods, fine, I don't care, mass lurking is an abomination and that's ALL that has happened in this game recently.

*grumble* I wrote out a fairly long rant about things, but it's not productive, so whatevs. Suffice to say, I will be posting at least once a day and if no one else decides to actually pay attention to this game, then this town deserves to lose because it sure as heck doesn't seem to want to play to win. Besides, looking at the list, only Corsato looks as kill-likely as I would be tonight. He's the only one that has more experience then I do.

vote: King E

for last posting in early JULY.

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At the moment, I'm conflicted between going after a lurker or being irritated that there are three one line posts above me . Meh, guess I'm difficult to please, at least people are posting (tears of joy or something ). If the mod could pokify the king that'd would wonderful.

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I've never considered winning to be the ultimate objective in any game. It feels holllow to me if it's accomplished through poor play (which is what is occuring in this game, the town will likely win only due to luck and lack of subtlety on the mafia's part). This game is in the bag so long as we are careful (3 investigations after tonight, a cop, and a doc with 9 players and what looks to be only one evil left, it's over), of course it doesn't seem like anyone really thinking about the set-up, but if that's the case then so be it.

That said,

unvote king

, for now. If he doesn't post/get replaced fairly soon, my vote will be right back as I care more about making a metagame point about needing to post then this individual game, I would vote for the cop for having posts with little to no content during the span of two months and forgetting about the game, yet still remembering to pay enough attention to give a night choice during a short night, but it would be pointless.

Dasquin, personally, I would prefer modkilling inactive players that haven't asked for replacement and placing their names on the quitters list (proves more of a point imo), but replacement is just as good =^-^=, either way thanks iffen ye can.

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vote: Yanqush

, let's get to night so that people can start dying and maybe that will help the game speed up a bit.

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That is strange, I fully expected to die, interesting.
Well, I protected Yoko last night, so perhaps the remaining killer thought I would not. Otherwise the only possibility is lack of submitted choice/someone else intervened. There is one faint possibility for a different reason, but I'm discounting it as my over=paranoia for now. =^-^=

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I still stand behind my decision to reveal as the game had effectively died at that point and I don't personally care about 'winning' so much as enjoying the game.

As for two docs, there were 20 players to start with. I've seen three docs in a mini before, so the idea of more then one doc in a normal sized game is less then surprising.

Just reviewing things in my head, Yoko claims cop on the first day, spork claims doc/cop on the fifth, I claim doc, and mlaker claims townie.

Point one: An investigation of myself last night would have been asanine, to put it nicely. It should be obvious why that would be.

Point two: I still want the night choices from spork.

Point three: At this point I see mlaker as innocent, less so for cubbie, but still pretty high, spork and sycko I'm willing to wait on for the moment (as in I haven't examined them much yet =^-^=), gashly I saw as suspicious, so that transfers to FD (nothing personal, just the way it works =^-^=, but I don't lynch replacements soon after they arrive, so I'm holding off on any prolonged look for a bit) and discer I've always found to be innocent, even when he's not, but again he/corsato look innocent to me, of course those two seem to play 'innocent' to my eyes, so not saying all that much, evil jerks ^_~

There is one other bit of information that I might have, but since it could potentially catch an evil in a lie, I'll hold off for now. Of course, I could be reading too much into it, but perhaps not.

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vote: spork

your choices could potentially help the town, so holding back after a claim is harmful. I will likely take my vote off after I get a list of choices, but not prior to that.

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Your role description before and the idea of a self-protect contradict each other; therefore, my vote stays.

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It's up to you from my point of view. On the one hand I was/am willing to let the sk take me out in order to try and get the town moving, but at the same time there really hasn't been much of anything said this entire game. I'm completely comfortable with my vote where it is at the moment, but again it's up to you.

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*sigh* It's strange, ultimatums seem to increase the post count considerably. Anyhows, FD and Corsato seem to not be posting a terribly large amount anywhere right now, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

The optimal strategy is actually fairly easily figured out. There are 8 people remaining, thus 3 lynches remain (if there are no doc saves), this is regardless of whether we have a no lynch mixed in there as well. In all likelihood, the sk's target (if no one is lying) must be spork, then myself, then yoko, leaving 1-5 for investigations/lynches. If there is an abnormality in that, it goes a long way to proving that someone is lying.
Today: no lynch
night: spork protects me, I protect Yoko, yoko investigates 1, spork dies
day 2: lynch 2
night 2: I protect Yoko, Yoko investigates 3, I die
day 3: lynch 4, the game shoudl be done at that point as everyone will have been investigated (Yoko already has one investigation).

This also protects against Yoko lying as it would be readily apparent if day 4 occurs (as both the godfather and the accomplice are dead).

unvote: spork, vote: no lynch

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Ordinarilly, I don't bother with quoting myself from the same page, but what the hay.

In all likelihood, the sk's target (if no one is lying) must be spork, then myself, then yoko, leaving 1-5 for investigations/lynches. If there is an abnormality in that, it goes a long way to proving that someone is lying.
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This also protects against Yoko lying as it would be readily apparent if day 4 occurs (as both the godfather and the accomplice are dead).

I don't assume that everyone believes spork or myself. If the mafia somehow manages to kill either myself or you without the person prior to them in the order dying, then it's pretty obvious that someone was lying. As to why I wouldn't advocate spork and myself protecting each other, well I don't trust him to be telling the truth. If either spork or myself is lying and we use that plan (spork and myself protecting each other) then the town loses, simple as that. Now tell me where were my other holes?

Flaws in Yoko's logic-So what happens if he's scum? Town would probably lose. If I'm scum, town will still likely lose. I kill sycko tonight, then whomever Yoko investigates the following night. That leaves Yoko, spork, one other (investigated), and myself. I'll take my chances in that scenario quite happily.

Actually, I did change my mind on one thing. I'll protect sycko tonight, protecting a doc at this point is useless, and leave protecting Yoko to spork. At this point, sycko is the only confirmed innocent. There is one possible way for the mafia to get to the final three under my plan, but they would have to be one of either Yoko, spork, or myself and it would take much more then some luck.

As for waiting, why? Oh so that other people can claim, what's the point in that again? All that it does is reveals Corsato and FD's role to the mafia, that's it. And it gives them time to return, so if they are the remaining scum they have a higher chance of getting a kill in, why allow that? I take my advantages where I can get them. If they're mafia/sk they can just claim townie and we are left with nothing to go off of. If however they have a helpful role such as vigilante or the like, keeping that a secret gives the town an edge.

What it essentially comes down to is this. Why lynch someone today when it will have no adverse effects to wait for tomorrow? There should be one less potential mafia member and one more investigation with the same number of lynches we currently have. This is bad for the town how?