New York 194: Guns N' Roses Mafia! (Day 8)

[Performer]

hebichan replaces ilikebugs. Please welcome him. Deadline is two weeks from this post. It will be accurate in the next VC.

Her.
Also gonna read up and see whats up with this game.

Hebi, I see you also enjoy cooking. Summer recipes are a ton of fun.

I look forward to your catchup .

Also, your predecessor and Reverie's predecessor both voted Killthestory, then unvoted him , then went afk from this game. Please elaborate on this.
Something else that was peculiar was how you and Reverie's predecessors were put into L-1 on d1, then the attention shifted into lynching Reubus/Ness. What are your thoughts on this?

[Performer]

hebi's posting upon replace-in in d4, is a little odd to me. She claims to be new(er) to FM, yet she clearly ignored my accusation against her - the ignoring part makes me think she's got more experience than she lets on. Maybe I'm overthinking this.
---
My lynch list for today:
KAAG
Drip
KTS
and recently added Kuroi. First he had me as the only null, later he voted me on d4, listed me as his only scumread, later voted somebody else, posted another reads list that still has me as a scumread. His only reasoning was a scummy "you look like you're trying too hard as town." Lol. This from someone who was in a game with me already, as well as RC, Ranger, Heat, BROseidon

I'd like us to put anyone on this list to L-1, please quit dragging the day out .
VOTE: Kuroi
---
@SS thanks for notifying me, I'll get on that signature issue right now! I didn't think it would possibly violate anything but I see what you mean

[Performer]

I frankly still don't get why we couldn't get momentum on KAAG - Snark, Drixx, and even ira listed him as a scumread.

[Performer]

Prodging as it's the weekend.

[Performer]

Hmm. One death again.
We have so many VTs. I'm starting to dread this setup.

[Performer]

Sigh.

I feel like I'm coming to my wit's end in this game. Very frustrated .

Sigh.

pk I miss you, we clearly needed your powers very much for this game.

[Performer]

I shot Fragger and Aris, basically conf town. Now let's figure out who scum is since I'm out of shots

...you are our 2-shot Vig ?

What do you make of our recent night that only 1 death?
I'm curious, KTS, who do

you

think is scum?

[Performer]

ebwop: that only had 1 death

[Performer]

@Slandaar because at the time, I couldn't think of anyone other than you who hit 2 scum in your scumreads. It seemed way too exact so I was noting it as "coincidence? Or more than that?"
In terms of the foresight accusation - I brought that up because it's incorrect FM theory from Dripping, to make a rash assumption like that.

On a related note, thanks for bringing that up - I went to the page for the 1917 post, page 77. I saw interactions regarding Aris, Frag, KAAG, Drip, Ozgin.
I'm thinking KAAG or Drip today.
VOTE: Dripping
Tunneled a rookie slot (Yume/Reverie) that said she's town (typically turns out to be the case when rookies claim that in FM), does a completely mysterious reverse of her scumread on Reverie at end of d3 . Plus she stated Ozgin was conftown.
---
Still waiting to see the rest of the players post something of substance for this phase. I've been wrestling with an idea for awhile but I feel like the timing isn't quite right yet.

[Performer]

^ebwop: as in the rest of the players who haven't posted yet after n4.

[Performer]

Good. I still don't like to think you are really town.

But Fire, he just claimed....

[Performer]

VOTE: Fire
Doubtcasting the conftown is a huge scumtell.

Wait, let me get this straight. KTS claimed, Fire stated he doubted KTS was town because KTS's behavior was baffling to him in this game, SS voted Fire because Fire merely expressed his thought, SS also KTS is conftown - something that Drip stated about Ozgin on pg 77 but Ozgin turned out to be scum.

What in the.

[Performer]

^ebwop: "SS also stated KTS "
Damn typos - _ -

I'm not saying KTS isn't town, but the sequence regarding SS, is just too off to me.

[Performer]

Wait a sec. Something's not right.

We had 2 town deaths on n1
1 town death n2
3 deaths n3: 2 scum deaths , 1 town
1 death n4

[Performer]

2 town, then 1 town, then 2 scum and 1 town, then 1 town

KTS claimed he shot Frag on n3 and Aris on n4, and that he's out of shots. Therefore he's supposed to be 2-shot Vig. Let's say this is true.
That still doesn't explain the 2nd scum death on n3.

This is a very bad scenario.

[Performer]

I don't think it's bad? The 3 deaths absolutely proves a vigi. So either there's two vigis or there's one vigi and some sort of limited SK. Either way, there's no reason to doubt KTS's claim.

SS, I'm not saying I doubt his claim. I was thinking if there's still only 1 scum faction left, that's a better case compared to 2 kill factions, which appears to be the case. This is very bad for us. I'm keeping a keen eye on Rach, Yume, Rev, Drip, and KAAG - all of whom have yet to post.

[Performer]

I kept rereading pg 104 after Fire doubted KTS so quickly and it's just not looking right either. Despite all the shitposting KTS has done, it's as if he doesn't take into account KTS's claim in the slightest.
VOTE: Fire

[Performer]

Out of the remaining folks still alive, you have the most experience with me and you've made it personal with your juvenile statements, Fire. There's only one reason I've been alive this long and it ain't because I'm scum, which you're believing.

Keep this game related instead of getting so personally hurt, as I don't want to hear it. I never did anything to make you get unreasonably mad. If you want to throw dumb statements at like a fool like "if youre town you deserve this," then replace out as no one wants your level here. Get out and don't disgrace us.

Get mad at me post game if you want, and it better be for good reasons too . Otherwise, help me try to win this game which is already getting on my nerves as it is.

UNVOTE: Fire

[Performer]

And if you truly thought i was making it just personal, wouldn't you just throw that as AtE scum trying to get you to unvote?
Like what is this?

Because since I thought you were making it personal, it could've been town frustration. I'm actually curious to see how the SS wagon goes.

Anyone who makes an outlandish statement like "if you're town you deserve this" and votes me when we're in d5 of a large game, where we are losing - of course I'm going to get bent out of shape and take it personal. It's like saying I'm trying to take care of my lover, friends, family , and coworkers - yet you want to kill me . It's just so angering, Firebringer!

[Performer]

Hmm. 2611 is a good point, but I don't like 2610 either.
Maybe I'm just terrible at reading Firebringer... I really don't like the way he tried to suggest that KTS could be scum nor the way he's pushing on me for that.

@Performer: I don't think your play this game has been bad. Do you agree with DGB re: Firebringer?

Drip reads Fire as town. She could be right about him . I find the sudden 2 votes on you to be interesting, not sure what to make of that . "See which way SS flinches" isn't enough for me to think SS is scum . There might be something else I'm missing though. I 'm thinking of giving this some hours to think over.

Rach, habi, Rev, and KAAG may end up being replaced.

[Performer]

dg I don't like ur reads they make me doubt my reads which are always right

KTS, there is one idea I've been wrestling with , which could make a lot of the murky water clear, but I'm not super sure it'll be more beneficial than risky.

Also, I see what you're saying but Fire is like many if not most players in FM - there aren't any consistent signs that point to him being town...which is what I can say of his scum meta too. The only thing I could rely on was what he does in this particular game.

[Performer]

how the hell is fire playing the same as his town game? Like, can anyone safely say Fire is town here?

yes

I seriously wish Drip would provide more than just brief posts like these. It's day 5 jeez! Making things so hard to read. Argh!

[Performer]

Sigh. I'm going to take a break from FM for rest of today and come back tomorrow. If we have another mislynch, I 'm going to slit my wrists.

[Performer]

@SS well, the game has been growing in disappointment to me because we've had consistently vague posters like Slandaar and Drip, heavy lurkers, the passive aggressive jab at me from Drip, some outrageous post by Firebringer that is anti town and he brushed it off as if it was nothing.

@Slandaar uh. Oz & Frag flipped, I posted that regarding you somehow nailing them because it's incredibly rare that anyone nails more than 1 scum in a reads list before they flipped, and you kept scumreading the Kop slot for over 2 days without elaborating .

I'm very interested in your and KAAG's flips. VOTE: Slandaar

[Performer]

Regarding the sig , I changed it because it was funny that you were right on the mark up until d5, when you voted me .

[Performer]

If anyone has been keeping track of any proof in the pudding - Aris voted KAAG with me yesterday, Drixx voted KAAG after KAAG made a bad case against him, Snark had him on his scumreads.

And this continued vote on me, the strange questioning from Slandaar , and increasingly strange accusations - these don't sit well with me . If anyone thinks Slandaar or KAAG are still town, I'd like to hear it.

[Performer]

Hmm it looks like I've been mistaken. It's still weird to me that you tunneled that slot so long without having your read evolve, but that could be just a playstyle thing. Going back to KAAG then.
VOTE: KAAG

Other than me, who are you scumreading , Slandaar.

[Performer]

@Fire & Drip I don't understand this hebichan wagon. Can you guys at least elaborate?? All this split focus and days are going by.

[Performer]

If anyone thinks Slandaar or KAAG are still town, I'd like to hear it.

I did think they were town before today... They'll be my top two priorities to reevaluate because I'm not sure where I stand on Performer's recent posts (I want to call him town but I'm not sure if that feeling is justified).

What's holding you back from voting KAAG?

[Performer]

Drip tunneled Yume for the longest time, abruptly called Yume town in end of d4, next day Drip is firm on me & Fire being town, hebi posted, Drip voted hebi,
Rach questioned Drip, Drip inferred Rach is possibly hebi's buddy.

@Fire my mistake, I misread. And apparently Drip goes on to ignore my question to her.

@KTS I'd like to go back to your request - are you absolutely sure of your request being the best thing to do? Because so far, I see 2 people voting me and you're 100% voting the wrong way . Your request is related to my idea I have been thinking about over and over, and as this phase keeps going, based on what we're seeing - I'm becoming more convinced that I should propose my idea. I don't want to say it outright, so I'm hoping you see what I'm trying to get at. I need your perspective on this because I'm extremely tired of the mislynches as nobody has been on the right track. Today could be the last day we hold any chance of winning and I don't want to keep wasting my time being in a game where the chance falls to an abysmal chance. I played a game where I was 2-shot Cop with Firebringer, a game where I was Jailkeeper with Ranger and RadiantCowbells, and those didn't end well. So I've been ruminating this idea for the longest time to boost our chance of lynching right. I need your two cents on it.

@Rach what's your read on Drip, as well as the rest of us? And why.

[Performer]

It's not so much a wagon as it is one person voting on me, as it happens.

Your buddy is worried though

I'm more worried by us mislynching yet another day tbh.

What are your reads on us and why?
Do you ANY FM experience or are you brand new? Seriously.

[Performer]

Hebi , other than your predec's random claim, I'm not seeing much substance I can go off of from your slot.

[Performer]

It's still weird to me that you tunneled that slot so long without having your read evolve, but that could be just a playstyle thing.

I mean it did 'evolve' I took Aristo's actions into consideration and I deemed them not very good so it didn't change.

Other than me, who are you scumreading , Slandaar.

No-one really. Rev but that is just an association read.

I need to think.

Wow. I've seen Slandaar's town game and it looks like he purposely plays mysterious - I remember the first game I played with him when he was town and I I was scum.
I've never seen his scum game.

Hmm. Those 2 are in process of being replaced, which is unexpected. Looks like I'll shelf my idea for now because it relies on everyone being here.

[Performer]

Still feel Slan is town

Kill is probably town

DGB is probably town

Been ISOing Frag and Ozgin and trying to figure out who their other scum budz are.

Hmm. Why are you townreading Slandaar? I'm not as sure about him recently.

Mostly meta from previous games.

Never played with him before. What's his scumgame like?

Mostly played with him as town but I can probably find a couple scum games if I had some time.

Does anyone have meta on Rach?

[Performer]

@SS thanks for the link. Also, wasn't it Frag who mentioned Jester ? Fire voted Frag due to that, which made sense.

[Performer]

@SS I can agree with you that I want to vote Fire in every game I play with him. Could just be because he uses a very different playstyle or largely relying on gut.

Based on the game you linked for Rach, she looked much more involved in trying to solve the game in that game she was VT in, compared to this game where she is apathetic and brief.

[Performer]

K. My read on Rach has changed because of 2693. Her 2695 further supports my growing suspicion.

Still don't see where the scumread by Drip on hebi, came from. But I feel like Drip could be onto something though, so I'll do this and see what happens. VOTE: hebichan

Still waiting on the 2 replacements.

[Performer]

KAAG read progression is a little suspect. KAAG/Rev makes sense. Might elaborate later but you can check it yourselves.

Are you saying you will finally join me against KAAG? I've pushed for his death since d4 but no one was having it. I've went over my scumread on him too.
His consistent avoidance of me in this game overall, has been suspect as well - it's like he knows something's going on. I can't pinpoint what exactly.

[Performer]

I haven't seen associations between Rev & KAAG though, but I am curious about that.

[Performer]

DGB is almost definitely town, based on just the scum list she posted today. Calling her a lyncher is plain silly.

I have no idea if Yume will flip scum. Because I have three scum reads who aren't Yume (that's Kuroi, Firebringer and Aristo BTW), I'd guess not but it's not like I haven't had shit reads before so...

I guess Slandaar is reasonable: I'm not voting Yume but I'll stop whining about it come Thursday.

Wow.

This slot needs to die.
VOTE: KAAG

Starting to rethink my read on Drip & hebi.

[Performer]

KAAG is town. Fire and Drixx are both annoying. Aristo is null leaning scum.
I want to look back at the interactions between the Fire slot and the Drixx slot.

Fire is the epitome of fun.
You have twice denied me, so you have been thrown out of the kingdom!

And while Firebringer is endearing, he hasn't done anything to give me town vibes. I accept his joking about with pisskop and yourself as NAI but he's very much a "responder" when it comes to the game, hasn't done much off his own back.

I refuse to respond to this.

Can someone who thinks Aristo is town explain why please without using meta?

He is............aristo?
You make this impossible without meta. Aristo, get drunk and then post in here to show how god damn townie you are!
Just remmeber to drink responsibly.

Since the Drixx wagon isn't happening and I'm thinking Snarky is town now,
VOTE: Aristo
Also I reread KTS and I like him a lot less now that the Reubus wagon that he pushed hard flipped town. I still don't like at all how he misread Fragger.

Bad vote. Bad vote
Can I just spam the thread with bad vote?

The above posts make me uncomfortable regarding KAAG & SS.

[Performer]

I'll elaborate: Drip, KAAG's post saying you were town based on your scum list you posted, is weird logic. It makes me uneasy, thinking he's protecting a possible scum buddy.

That or he's setting you up for some future mislynch.

[Performer]

He consistently painted the Yume slot as unreadable and he scumread 2 of those 3 , while 2 of those 3 flipped town. He wagoned Fire several times so Fire most likely isn't teamed with him.

[Performer]

@Fire Starting from Slandaar's 2697 into the next page with my case. Along with my posts from pgs 104-105 and , 1688 dead-man post and other posts about how ira scumread Frag & KAAG.

KAAG made a poor case against Drixx, Drixx voted KAAG because of it, and KAAG called it a "lame OMGUS" on d4.

[Performer]

I feel like I'm the last town left alive

Have faith in us - you are not. You have my word that you're not the last town alive.

Not apathetic, trying to sort out this game. As for my stating I needed a break because my head was not into being logical and rational and sorting things out in a non emotional manner because of my son's birthday? Really? I was not able to think or even get client work done all day, much less be able to deeply analyze any mafia games.

It's nothing personal. I remember my very first game here , I played against a scum team where 1 of the 2 scum, used an irl excuse to lurk. I called her out on this (in quite a polite way I may add) and she blew up on me. Eventually we lost and she turned out to be scum.

If I came off as highly offensive, I do apologize.
---
TheDominator37, question for you that I'm following up on. One of your predecessors claimed 2-shot Cop but didn't reveal results. What are the results?

[Performer]

Haven't fully caught up with posts I missed since I was last here, but I skimmed the last few pages. I'll have to take some time to more fully address some things.

One of the weird things going on, is that 1 of 2 replacements has been lurking since the replace in, which is atypical since people normally start posting as they replace in. But it should be a null tell. Fire's abrupt vote on that slot is shocking.
After reviewing my case on KAAG slot and Fire's recent posts, I think it's better to do this. VOTE: Fire

@Nero were you speaking of the themed game with Fire, BBT as Town 2-shot Bp , Titus; and GL, Thor, and massive scum? (I may not be fully recalling the details correctly but I'm curious of the meta you spoke of for Fire)

[Performer]

6-24-16 is d5 deadline & the most recent vc is below:
Killthestory -
Performer - Killthestory
hebichan - SS
Firebringer - hebi, rach, nero, performer
Rachmarie -
Slandaar -
yume/reverie/Dominator37 - fire, Drip, Slandaar
DrippingGoofball (0)-
nero/KickAssAndGiggle -
Something_Smart

Not Voting - dominator

With 10 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

@mod isn't it supposed to be 6 to lynch? Why is the recent vc stating 7?

[Performer]

KTS is conftown, and at the time that Fire said that he WAS voting me.

Yes, KTS is p much town. He's a claimed 2 shot vig and has killed a mafia, thus he's not mafia. Thought there were 3 kills night 3, so mafia shot, sk dhot and the vig kill?

However my point was that instead of voting KTS (who he believed was scum) he switched his vote to Dom instead.

Fire rolling over makes me not care if that dies but I'd still like to finish reading before we hang someone.

Wait a sec. KTS how come you mentioned you shot Aris but you never mentioned anything about the other night where 2 scum died?

[Performer]

K. Slandaar's 2734 has made me rethink Fire. UNVOTE: Fire
I still don't like the situation right now, something just doesn't sit right.

I'm prepared to offer my plan now, the one I was trying to breadcrumb in earlier days and even today, but clearly no one looked like they knew what I was trying to hint at.

I am proposing a mass claim in the form of popcorn, starting with KAAG slot. I will claim last.

[Performer]

@mod isn't it supposed to be 6 to lynch? Why is the recent vc stating 7?

I don't know what you mean

Because you just fixed it after noticing your mistake!

[Performer]

K. Slandaar's 2734 has made me rethink Fire. UNVOTE: Fire
I still don't like the situation right now, something just doesn't sit right.

I'm prepared to offer my plan now, the one I was trying to breadcrumb in earlier days and even today, but clearly no one looked like they knew what I was trying to hint at.

I am proposing a mass claim in the form of popcorn, starting with KAAG slot. I will claim last.

During this phase, I also have spent time thinking of an alternative and similarly risky idea but it might work - a no lynch for this phase, in place of the mass claim popcorn.

Because of my particular role, I understand there exists a particular X factor , so my thought process is this - if we end up with no lynch, then overnight the factor goes to work, and tomorrow we get closer to catching scum by POE.

[Performer]

KTS is conftown, and at the time that Fire said that he WAS voting me.

Yes, KTS is p much town. He's a claimed 2 shot vig and has killed a mafia, thus he's not mafia. Thought there were 3 kills night 3, so mafia shot, sk dhot and the vig kill?

However my point was that instead of voting KTS (who he believed was scum) he switched his vote to Dom instead.

Fire rolling over makes me not care if that dies but I'd still like to finish reading before we hang someone.

Wait a sec. KTS how come you mentioned you shot Aris but you never mentioned anything about the other night where 2 scum died?

i did

ok.

Btw, thanks for ignoring not just 1, but both ideas. I see why Fire has said at least twice that he's appalled that you're town in this game.

[Performer]

The least you could do is offer your two cents on them and why. Or ask questions. Or tell us of your opinion on Dominator and Nero, the two replacements.

[Performer]

There's so many slots I want to see dead, why wasn't I given a gun?

Fire and everyone else who remains, and is town: tell me you haven't at least considered either of these ideas, as the days dragged on. I wouldn't suggest such a risky idea if I didn't think we were against the wall.

[Performer]

im not allowed to call people carrots?

yeah what fire said

i like carrots
especially baby carrots so I can more easily eat them

[Performer]

@Performer: I think a massclaim would do more harm than good at this point, as there's still significant unclaimed town power.
I don't like the no lynch idea, though I don't have any idea what you might be talking about so I can't say definitively.

Despite the risks, I've considered all the variables that I could think of and I think either of these ideas is better than the normal route. D5 and there's possibly still 2 scum and 1 SK. I really am dreading another mislynch today as the worst case is that we lose 3 more town and then I don't see how we recover from that.

Please know that I do not normally suggest these risky ideas, but if you guys look into the game like when I was the Jailkeeper with Heat, beeboy, Broseidon, and Ranger, I only do this if it looks like it's better than the normal way.

I am feeling very much like claiming so you guys can see why I have been playing the way I have, this game. KTS and others: this will answer your suspicions on me. Because there hasn't been anyone who said they are onboard with either idea, I can also just claim myself and nobody else needs to claim. I've considered as many feasible approaches as possible. I'll give this a bit more time, maybe until tomorrow before deciding on what I should do next.

[Performer]

Here is the game I was talking about, in terms of mass claim. It didn't turn out very well, but that game had different variables.
forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=7748865#p7748865

[Performer]

Could someone explain to me with 2 scum flips and all why we are popcorn claiming?

Do you think it is MYLO now Perf? Because I think claiming gives scum an advantage otherwise.

I think in worst case with 2 scum and 1 SK remaining, that this is MYLO. In the event of my death tonight, then I thought we stood a better chance if we did the mass claim popcorn. Based on most people's suggestions, it doesn't look like the optimal idea so I will shelf it.

either vote Fire with me, start a Hebi wagon or explain why the Dom slot is scum WITHOUT referring to Dom's "lurking". I think its null.

Recently explained by 2787 , which is convincing. Also did another ISO of the 3 predecessors, including jam, Yume, and Reverie. If there is actually 1 scum and 1 SK remaining instead, that slot might be the SK - based on the "NOW DIE SCUM" post by jam. The rest of the posts in the short ISOs, don't contribute much substance.

VOTE: TheDominator

[Performer]

I have a top 2 scumreads right now:

TheDom & Nero slot

I had

Fire

as town but his suicidal demeanor in the recent pages, looked anti town. "Didn't replace out b/c there have been so many replacements but I give up on this game" - doesn't look involved. I put him as null for now, along with

Rach & Drip.

For top 3 townreads, right now they're

KTS, Slandaar, SS. I also townread hebi.

[Performer]

People's reads so far

Drip - t on fire ; s on hebi
kts - t on perf/sland; s on hebi
heb - t on kts/perf/slan; s on ss, fire, kaag
ss - t on perf/drip/nero; s on heb, dom, sland
rach - t slan, kts, drip; s on fire,
fire - s on domi
nero - t on kts, rach, ss; s on fire, slan, heb
sland - s on kaag/domi
---

6-24-16 is d5 deadline & the most recent vc is below:

Killthestory -
Performer - Killthestory
hebichan - SS
Firebringer - hebi, rach, nero
Rachmarie -
Slandaar -
yume/reverie/Dominator37 - fire, Drip, Slandaar, perf
DrippingGoofball -
nero/KickAssAndGiggle -
Something_Smart

Not Voting - dominator

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
---

forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=65280&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=12589&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go

link to nero cain's town meta, for anyone interested
after digging through several pages of his meta, I haven't found a scum game of his so far but that is what I found so far

[Performer]

TheDominator37 was lynched, he was

Spoiler:

Town Tracker

SIGH.

[Performer]

I have never witnessed a game where all the replacements AND the original player, were so lackluster....in a slot that turned out to be the PR. No wonder why we've been having massive trouble this game - if that slot wasn't performing so poorly, we would've gotten results or breadcrumbing or hinting at the least.

SS why do you call Sland and Rach scum ? What're your thoughts on Nero?

[Performer]

I also demand everyone claim. I'm VERY suspicious that KTS didn't die tonight. I mean, seriously - why are you still alive after that claim??

[Performer]

I'm going with my previous statement of my strongest scum reads being on SS and fire.

Also why did the tracker not claim.

Well. I think we were all so generally frustrated , and that slot replaced in and immediately went to Lurkville.
This was a huge learning moment for me , so I would have to be more careful going forward in other games.
Hebi I don't like how you hammered so quickly though...serious question - how much experience do you have in FM?

I also thought Drip would turn out Vengeful Town based on the way her predecessor and her voted, as well as her disturbing brief posts.

[Performer]

Man. Over 25 games hosted and /or played, and this flip was one of the most surprising that I've seen. Mixed with pk dying as our JOAT on night 1, we've had some very bad luck.
---
I am demanding mass claim this phase - no need for popcorn version this time. Everyone claim, and I want that to happen within the next 24 hours please. Hebi and KTS , no need to as you guys already did.

Considering our situation , I have an idea of what to do if everyone answers to the mass claim as well as a suggestion if everyone doesn't answer to mass claim.

Regardless, this is a very tricky situation and I need remaining town to have faith in me. I can't disclose all cards for fear that scum will take advantage of the extra knowledge, but I need town to have faith in me.

[Performer]

Hebi, I think I can get Fire sorted out eventually. I don't think he's the right lynch today though after all that's happened in the earlier days.
Right now I'm planning to sit back and see how people answer to my request, which I believe is our next best step.

[Performer]

Man. Over 25 games hosted and /or played, and this flip was one of the most surprising that I've seen. Mixed with pk dying as our JOAT on night 1, we've had some very bad luck.
---
I am demanding mass claim this phase - no need for popcorn version this time. Everyone claim, and I want that to happen within the next 24 hours please. Hebi and KTS , no need to as you guys already did.

Considering our situation , I have an idea of what to do if everyone answers to the mass claim as well as a suggestion if everyone doesn't answer to mass claim.

Regardless, this is a very tricky situation and I need remaining town to have faith in me. I can't disclose all cards for fear that scum will take advantage of the extra knowledge, but I need town to have faith in me.

At thie point, I'll try anything.

Thank you. I have been thinking you are town despite the very unfortunate hammer. I think this game will be a great learning opportunity for you, hebi.

[Performer]

Also @ SS - how did you suddenly arrive at a conclusion of Rach being a scumread? She wasn't even a scumread of yours yesterday.

[Performer]

Decided to check in and see what's going on, and ended up seeing a ton of new posts.
Did a skim and saw people voting left and right, and venting - trust me , I share the frustration as well.

I need remaining town to cool it with anymore votes on anyone . There is still likely an SK and I'm thinking 1 scum, remaining.

I've seen enough and I will place my vote accordingly, when I return tomorrow morning.

DO NOT add anymore votes ON ANYONE. Though my role has its limits , I will provide my result tomorrow, and everyone who's remaining town, needs to follow my lead.

Rach your post is very weird. Unless i did the math wrong, this is indeed very likely MYLO in worst case scenario. Please explain how you arrived at this not being MYLO.

I'll address things in a fuller scope tomorrow, but again, please do NOT add anymore votes until I come back tomorrow. I need to sleep to get up for work early tomorrow. We have time left, please do not rush this.

[Performer]

@people who were asking about my reads: I have a pretty strong townread on Nero. KTS is conftown and I have a very strong townread on Performer and a mild one on Fire. Hebichan is the only scumread I have for play; the Slandaar and Rach reads are due to PoE and unimpressive (not really scummy, just kinda meh) posting recently.

I disagree with Fire & Heb being scum , and found that Slandaar sounded increasingly town yesterday. Today, Rach sounds more town as I was null on her yesterday. Btw Slandaar, I expected you to post already! Where are you???

[Performer]

Perf why are you wanting mass claim? We probably have one more on the maf team plus an SK

Clearly either the maf dude or dudette, or the SK is not having a ton of luck with their bullets, since we have mostly had 1 death per night.

I don't think we are in MYLO yet and we definitely are not in LYLO

so why the rush to mass claim?

Thought Aris was some sort of SK, so I shot them. That's where 1 death came from.

I'm thinking SK is trying to play himself off as town, maybe??? I don't see another town role with killing potential, or it's possible it was mafia with a 1 shot.

Clearly there was a BP or doctor, potentially jailkeeper, who shouldn't out themselves now, but if it comes down to it, should confirm themselves as town later on.

Still seems like pretty good advice to me.

As for why he did not die

he stated he was an x shot and his bullets were gone.

That makes him a VT now, and now that everyone lynched DGB's favorite slot, she had become a wild card and might have pushed a lynch through on the scum (cough cough fire cough cough). Though of course her if dude is town lynch Nero does worry me a tad, I doubt he would actually nk her if he were the remaining mafia player.

This second mass claim attempt by me , was laid as a low-level trap.
Clearly it didn't fully work out , just like my 2 traps to replacements earlier in this game.

Because of my role, I was fully aware there was a Tracker remaining - which was why I spoke about the X factor. I did not want to early reveal that there was A TRACKER specifically, which was why I kept talking about timing and considering when to release strategies - revealing at wrong times would not help the other PR. I didn't expect Dom to be the Tracker , as I expected someone else to be - and at least hint, breadcrumb, provide results, SOME kind of info to us. Then when he of all people flipped to be Tracker, I decided to take measured steps the next day because despite the capabilities of my role, it has its limits.

[Performer]

Host can replace me for all I care.
I am not voting today.

Fire. We need your cooperation.

Remember all the games we played in?
-the themed one with multiple Trackers , and the outrageously inappropriate kuribo
-the one with bp bg and a 1-shot bp doctor, where Aj, Titus, talah were town - and there were 2 scum vigs
-the game where you were Survivor, Call of Wild and I were town, and I was a ridiculous Town Mailman I even used my ability to mail Albert a psychological trick that almost backfired on me LOL
-or what about the one where Kat and Kaintepes were scum, with FA, Mario, and me being town, and you were a PR too? that was a shameful one

Come on man. We have to work this through. Please stay in the game.

[Performer]

Ok I have to disagree with the quote here:

Town, frankly, does not deserve a win,

I appreciate KTS's efforts in digging up ISOs and meta. Continuing the rest of my catchup .

[Performer]

no kuroi is scum but

would you vote firebringer w/ me?

I would honestly, I feel like he's whiteknighting Kuroi and it bothers me in his ISO. His snap vote on you seems a bit off too.

Fire and Hebi aren't the same alignment. This is a fact from this single post. SvS and TvT is simply not possible.

Fire & Hebi aren't our lynches today. More on this soon.

I can't deal with people who start wagons and then complain when I join them because I read the people on the wagon as town.

Because my reads are too good beforehand.

It's bullshit.

I'm town and you're just bad. But hey, start a wagon on another townie and get a third mislynch when fire is still a great target for a third day in a row, I will hammer myself, cause I'm tired of this game with literally no one listening to me.

Hebi, do NOT hammer yourself. I've seen town do that before but it really hurt town chance to victory. In large normals, we have to persevere because the nature of the game is drawn out and tests our patience.

[Performer]

Perf

I am going based on the fact we have 8 players prob 1 more maf plus 1 sk. Which would lead to 6 more townies. At least that is my reasoning? How are you coming up with MYLO?

BTW if it is MYLO shouldn't we NL based on our only getting one NK at night lately? I am concerned that if we mass claim it will out the last of our PRs and we are already sucking because we had useless people in a tracker slot uggh. If you show me good reasoning that this really is MYLO, then I will happily support your mass claim and I will claim.


NERO chill dude, Kill is town he claimed 2 shot vig, and now is basically a VT. and is unCCed.

No need to do it anymore , as we need the right lynch today.

But to elaborate - if we get a mislynch + 2 more nks, then it's 5 remaining and we'll need 3 to lynch tomorrow - LYLO. So today I believe, is MYLO.

[Performer]

@Rach we have an unaccounted kill on n3. So we either have an SK or a 2nd scum team.

POE and play says scum is in Slandaar and 2 of or all 3 if we have a second team.

Performer
hebichan
Firebringer

vote:Slandaar

After Slan flips I'll be conf town.

good thing Slan is not a mislynch.

VOTE: Nero
I targeted Slandaar last night, and the mod returned the result that he went nowhere. Your push, a look at VCA, and your interactions in this thread convince me that you are the lynch today. One of my abilities in my dual role, is that I can track once the main Town Tracker dies. I am the Backup Tracker.
---
SS is also suspect as he placed scumread on Sland. He pushed for Fire & Hebi to be lynched (I think these 2 have been left alive very long, to be mislynches), which further places SS on my heavy suspicion list. It makes sense to me that he sees Nero slot as "high townread" and didn't agreed with my suspicion on that slot before this day.

[Performer]

^ebwop: makes sense that he thinks Nero is town because he wants to leave him alive .

Unless there's some shocking new development, then remaining town- please consolidate your votes with me the Nero wagon.

[Performer]

^ebwop : on the Nero wagon. Freaking typos.

[Performer]

I want to point out a few more things.

Though one of my goals when I saw my pm, was to survive as long as possible because of the role's dormant potential, I made it a top priority to survive into endgame after seeing everything that's happened. I want to give a lot of credit to KTS for surviving into the end and helping us as best he can, too.

Despite pk having the misfortune of dying n1 , a passive role of iraonavp that cannot actively help town in terms of the role, and 4 people in a row didn't utilize their power role effectively, KTS and I have done our best to help out.

KTS rid us of Frag, which meant the trackers wouldn't be sabotaged by his Ascetic ability.
And I am still here.

Now, I know I'm not perfect and my role has its limits, but to the best of our current gathered knowledge , we have to at least try and not give up. We owe it to ourselves and the ones who died in the name of the town fight.

[Performer]

This is also why I thought it was hilarious that Slandaar said I was a top townread of him for the longest time LOL. Sadly, somebody said it might violate FM rules, so I had to remove it from my sig.

[Performer]

This is also why I thought it was hilarious that Slandaar said I was a top townread of him for the longest time LOL. Sadly, somebody said it might violate FM rules, so I had to remove it from my sig.

I'm highly considering putting it back in there once this game is over though.

[Performer]

uggh that blue is impossible to read Perf

you can try highlighting the text
let me know if that helps

[Performer]

Hey, you guys want to know a secret? Is there a mafia rolebocker, or do you think there isn't?

Anyway, I'm willing to stick with the Nero wagon. Still kind of iffy on SS, need more time to delve into it.

I've considered this, but if they had a Roleblocker , I think I'd be dead by now.
Can RBs block all a role's abilities and kill , simultaneously?

I expect the scum team to have a total of 2 Goons and 1 Mafia Ascetic. The SK is anybody's guess on whatever additional abilities he has.
If the scum team had 4 instead of 3, that makes little sense.
3 scum+1 third party in 21-man large normal makes more sense. I played 2 large normals in my FM career - both had a total of 4 enemies vs the rest as town.
I really can't imagine any other plausible scenario.

[Performer]

I don't know

I actually think mafia had a 1shot and there's 4 people all in a mafia team. Would it be even more powerful with a roleblocker, or would that be too powerful? Also consider this with an SK pleas.e

Hmm. If the 3rd is an RB , that makes things somewhat trickier . Fortunately for us, our greatest weapon is our collective brainpower!

I just double checked the Wiki on info - RB cannot kill and block at same time. Come to think of it, if they could, that would be grossly imbalanced. I got the result that Sland went nowhere, instead of a "no result." So I'm very certain that my power went through last night.

[Performer]

KTS you're saying he has something like a Ninja ability??

I must've missed your post on having a another shot during reread.

[Performer]

KTS you're saying he has something like a Ninja ability??

I must've missed your post on having a another shot during reread.

...unless you mean on this same page

[Performer]

Performer I claimed I had a shot literally only a couple posts ago lol.

Anyway, if Slandaar is the SK, the SK hasn't been killing, meaning he isn't visiting anyone. So, your track result would just yield him as not visiting anyone. I think that makes sense. Otherwise, I'm stupid.

I've considered this as well but I have a dual role (2nd part is too risky to out at this time). Based on the information in my role descriptions, and the NKA, I don't think the SK did a no kill. I wish I could say more and will elaborate post game, but I don't think it's wise for me to out the 2nd part.
---
I also think we should plan ahead in case Nero flips scum or somehow does not, since as you guys brought up good points and I know as well - tracking has its limits.
1. If he does turn scum, which I 'm thinking is the case - tomorrow we have 6 left so 5v1, which isn't mylo or lylo. This is if you don't shoot.
2. If he's somehow town, then we have 5 left tomorrow with 3v2. We'll need 3 of 5 to lynch which means it's lylo. This is also if you don't shoot.

I think you should only shoot if he turns out scum. Then instead of 5v1, if SS somehow is town - it'll still be 4v1.

[Performer]

Yeah . Nero flips scum - shoot SS.

But in the event he somehow still is not scum - then please do not shoot.

KTS, it is an honor working with you .

[Performer]

i think I've been playing one of my better games and I think this game is close to solved

....
I don't see how we are close to being solved in the game, unless we get flips. We never got one lynch right in the game.

[Performer]

Based on the flips , amount of kills per night, and the special qualities of my dual role, I see that it is impossible to justify Nero being a 6th Town PR.
We've had pk the multi-role, a Town Ascetic Enabler, Town Tracker, the 3-shot Vigilante, and me the Backup Tracker & (not the best time to reveal).
5 PRs, 3 scum, 1 SK , the rest VTs. Nero's soft claim is not justified in this setup; in other words, he is lying.
Initially I wanted to vote SS after his reads list including Rach & Sland, Fire & Heb - then Nero came out with a hard vote and highly questionable posts regarding Sland's flip confirming Nero as town. So, Nero, then SS next tonight.

Other notes: I still believe the remaining folks like Slandaar with the rest, to be town. And I am reaffirming the plan with KTS shooting SS . I plan on tracking someone tonight, and I want the target to be kept a secret for our best interest. Although I appreciate suggestions, please do not suggest any track targets.

Why am I planning ahead ? I 've been in too many games and seen too many twists, and this game has been very upsetting several times. I will continue to try my best. I want us to feel like our contributions meant something, and that we learned things in this game. Please everyone, consolidate your votes on Nero.

Will possibly follow-up on other matters tomorrow if they're important enough, but my vote stays.

[Performer]

Would you then unvote Nero long enough for him to claim then? Not sure why Perf thinks he has claimed I have not seen it yet. I saw Slan claim then ask for Nero to claim.

Rach. I just skimmed a town newbie game you came out of. I am at my patience limit for tolerating experienced players making continuous weirdo posts like "how are you seeing this is mylo or lylo" and "I have not seen his claim yet." Come on, Rach.

Nero posted on pg 120, that he targeted someone. That is a soft claim. After the Tracker flipped, it was already impossible to me, that there would be a 6th PR. The fact that pk flipped JOAT and had JK as one of his abilities, and Nero just claimed JK - he must be a scum JK then.
I'm making none of this up, while pages 120 and 121 in Nero's posts, are some of the biggest lies I 've ever seen .

[Performer]

^this is a scum vote

I'm not consolidating anything. This wagon has all the signs of being a town wagon, the biggest being that everyone wants to lynch someone else a little more but is willing to compromise. I've never seen one of those wagons hit scum.

Tbh whoever's scum (hebi and Slandaar, probably) deserves to win a heck of a lot more than town does. *sigh* I'm definitely not signing up for another large, this was way too much effort and is way too disappointing.

Why do you play to win? That just causes disappointment. I don't play to win. I don't play to lose either. I just play to play, to better myself. To be the best I can be, and to have fun.

Why do you choose to play?

This is a very insightful philosophical post
KTS , might I suggest you consider becoming an IC? I think you have the potential for it.

[Performer]

So far there's confirmed to be me, a 3 shot vig, a tracker, a JOAT, an ascetic enabler, and then there's the difference between you two.

Personally, I'm not sure why Nero wouldn't come forward the first day as the jailkeeper, and I'm not sure why they chose THIS LATE IN THE DAY to claim when statistically 1v1 tradeoffs always benefit town. That does not make any sense to me, and it definitely feels like scum fakeclaiming PR to save themselves.

I'm also not sure it makes sense with the general setup over a universal tracker. I can see that role in this because it's not heavily powerful, but it's also powerful enough for balance. I could see it with the way the game state stands, but the jailkeeper claim makes no sense. Plus, jailkeeper is such an easy fakeclaim for scum since it roleblocks and it protects. You can literally make up night actions with RNG, and you'll be fine seeing as your night actions can go all ways.

Overall, I don't believe the claim. It feels too much like the Fragger claim, and if I'm wrong, then Slandaar can get ultra vigged by me tonight. I don't really care.

There is a more likely possibility that explains why there have been only 2 deaths, but there's no way in hell I'm elaborating on that vital card, as that would be advantageous info for scum.

[Performer]

Its pretty obvious what I am. I'm the town jail keeper. The Slandaar slot has been blocked two nights in a row with no second kill. So obviously I thought I had been blocking a kill. Weather he's the SK or the mafia..idk.

Like I said earlier, it should be obvious that this is a town wagon given that there is NO resistance like at all. Well SS and Rach are town reading me I guess so 2 out of 4? And that's ignoring the fact scum Hedi quickly hopped on me after avoiding the question of what she thought of my wagon.

Like Perfs claim of backup tracker, besides the fact that I don't believe it, and his claim of targeting Slandaar and seeing him go nowhere is not the CC type thing he thinks it it. Like roleblockers are not told what their action did. So for me to see that there is no kill like why would I not think he's been blocked?

@Perf why should I have not believed that I blocked a kill?

And the KTS stuff makes little sense to me as well.Like he's essentially voting me for not voting Hebi but why would I vote Hebi overr someone I had a quasi guilty on? His thing about it being mylo/lylo today and not willing to trust my claim is either a pretty big math fail or just unwilling to admit a mistake. I think he's kinda talking out of both sides of his mouth about Slandaar. Like he's town reading him BUT thinks he could be the SK. Like when I flip it'll mean that I'm not lying about my role or actions so there's gonna be alot of pressure on Slan tomorrow so this gives him the flexibility to switch to Slandaar the next day.

False positives are a thing so its not impossible that I have one on Slandaar. There's also a TON of scum motivation to want to get rid of a a blocking role. I think that if Slandaar is not scum then atlest one of KTS/Performer

HAVE

to be scum. Like Hebi is almost assurdly scum and Fire is a p good bet but even if they flip scum that's only 2 so a third has to be in KTS/Slandaar/Performer.

1. As far as I can tell most people think there are only 2 scum left
2. I am not scum
3. If I were scum I would just wait for the slandaar slot to hammer you cause by your own logic that slot should be a killing role, instead of jumping off.
4. you keep going back and forth on if you should vote me or slandaar.

Hebi , since KTS's claim on d5, you've had the knowledge of two PRs.
Consider all the posts from d6. I believe you're town (and I hope you learn and improve your townplay going forward!).
It's okay.

It's okay to hammer.

[Performer]

My stance stays the same against Nero. So please - continue to entertain us with your falsifications. Or you can just gracefully accept your defeat.

[Performer]

WOW.

It was not plausible to me that there exists a 4-man scum team with 1 SK against 5 PRs. As we all saw, KTS and my plan was to end Nero & SS in the 6th phase, which should've ended the game . I believed they were the final scum & SK. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

Huge thanks to KTS for following through with the plan - read the setup from the mod and you will be shocked at what my role is . I promise you that .

Anyway, SS's flip further explains his irrational defense of Nero after I started pushing for KAAG to die, a few days ago.
Fire's ISO contains plenty of AtE , which is making me rethink his slot . Based on SS's flip, if Fire were SK, it makes sense that Rach, hebi, and SS pushed him . His votes on me and awkward criticizing, despite my meta with him - if he is SK, this makes sense.
Hebi's asking of me to investigate her on d6 before the flips, makes me more confident in hebi.
Rach's continued suspicion of me , even adding that I'm a "weaker townread ," makes me suspect that Rach could be SK as well. Having the Bp ability as an SK, isn't atypical in normal & balanced games.

It's got to be between Fire & Rach.

My analysis of night 6 is that KTS and SS targeted one another, and that the SK did a no kill. This is going to be tough.

This is the most challenging PR game I have ever played, and I have to say...scum team made it a challenge, which meant it was fun - I commend you guys for that. Otherwise it'd be boring.

[Performer]

VOTE: RachMarie

Fire went nowhere.

[Performer]

There's something else - your claim clashes with my 2nd role. I wouldn't put you at L-1 unless I thought this claim didn't fully fit. You may be Bp but I don't think you're town, with the information I've gathered. This includes the setup and what my roles are.

[Performer]

What's all this talk about SK II? Never heard of that term. Anyone else would find it believable from you , Rach, but I find it tough to believe considering my role

and

what has already flipped.

Because of this new & unexpected development of 4 scum and 1 SK rather than 3 scum and 1 SK , I don't think it's smart for me to claim the 2nd part of this role anymore, in case we get the lynch wrong. Then we go to night again and it's just too risky.

Regardless, I thought Fire already claimed. Since he didn't, I want to hear Fire's claim first and then see what else we can do.

I hope this isn't the wrong thing to do.
UNVOTE: Rach

Rach: on a related note, is this why you kept asking me about clarifying mylo and lylo? From my perspective it was impossible to have other PRs remaining, considering KTS & I should've been the final 2 of the 5. With you, it's 6 Town PRs. Hmm.

[Performer]

My apologies everyone, I mis-typed Fire - meant to say Rach didn't go anywhere. I tracked Rach on Night 6.

Regardless of my track result , just based on her claim alone, the flips, and my dual role - it made it unbelievable to me that she would be a Town Bp.

I will explain: because my 2nd role is also Bulletproof. I am the Town Backup Tracker/Bulletproof. I figured in pregame that these dual roles had a ton of dormant potential. If you go through my ISO, you will see some weird posts like ones where I react to the night kills after the night flips. That's why when Rach claimed and said people were hitting her, which was her theory for the missing extra nks - I was suspicious. It's just strange to have 2 Town Bp when SKs having Bp ability, is a common thing.

I took some time to do extra thought about 4 scum, 1 SK, and 6 PRs (2 of them being Trackers, 2 being Bp). I'm just trying to wrap my mind about if it's a real case or an unrealistic case . I don't think hebi is SK , based on her behavior.

In the event we are still wrong today and I die tonight, well...I leave the rest up to remaining town. You guys have plenty of information to work with and I have faith in you guys.

VOTE: Fire
L-1.

[Performer]

Slandaar, your read on the Ari slot was most bizarre. Also, the fact that you survived for so long as a non-PR also made me suspect of you , in earlier days. Your read on me was on point when you said I was your highest townread for the longest time - which I saw was funny, very flattering, and indeed correct. Unfortunately I can't have that in my sig until the game is over lol .

[Performer]

This combination of events caused me to track you on n5: the pattern of you surviving so long and the fact that KTS and I claimed after the Tracker died , made me think "Wait a second, let's track Slandaar. He can't be a PR, yet he's lived so long in this game. Based on flips and the talk so far, there doesn't look like there's some Doctor in the game. He's been living too long and if my result came through that he's town , I can get a near-confirmed town on our side in case I died or KTS died. "

Your earlier vote on me a few days back before the claim , also made me think you were more likely town. If you were scum, that would've been fairly dangerous for you to do. This was also why I didn't scumread you but I pushed back on Fire when he voted me shortly after your vote, on Day 4 iirc.

I had to have more certainty on you, Slandaar, and I'm really glad I tracked you Night 5, hehe.

[Performer]

Slan I missed that math is NOT my best subject

It's ok. As long as FM is one of your best subjects, then our town needs your continued support!