SIR Disease Mafia - Game Over!

[Tchill13]

VOTE: especiallythelies

drama and mod having to remind ppl to be civil this early is fun i guess.

flavor what do you think of Miss lynch and ETL right now?

[Tchill13]

I am willing to consider that ML

actually believes

what she's been posting. However I do believe if ML is town the conclusions she's made about my posts are very poor, and I probably won't be putting much stock in other reads of hers. I honestly don't know if the bad case makes her scum,l considering she thinks so highly of her own abilities, so shouldn't the case actually have merit? Because to me it doesn't. To me it's garbage, fabricated, blown-up bullshit. To me, it's very simple. I asked a question to the mod via PM because I wasn't sure I was allowed to post it in the thread, but I wanted to be transparent so I mentioned that I did, and posted the response when I got it. And suddenly, that's a case about how I'm "not playing with an optimal town mindset". That's fucking bullshit to me. Who the fuck is this random ass person to tell me how to play "optimally"? GTFOH.

this is what it stems from im assuming.

ETL do you think ML as scum would be willing to grab the spot light and tunnel you on a semi absurd reason? do you consider that good scum play this early?

[Tchill13]

Farside seems alright, pretty even in the approach of the game atm.

Auro is meh lean scum. Little too much posts with little to no game comments for my liking this early.

[Tchill13]

I have no clue how you get hesitant to take a side when I said I see you both as town.

y r they both town?

ML read like she really thought she caught scum. She was pushing on EtL to get to see what he did. She actively pushed her point and I don't see that coming from scum.
EtL is more of a gut read from the interaction. I get the buzzwords looking scummy because I have thought that in the past when someone uses ms lingo to create a case.

They just both read as though they both are right about what they are saying and neither one looks like they were hiding or taking time to say what there thoughts were.

I don't see too many times scum being reactionary this early.

i dont believe this is a town tell. The way they went about handling their specific side is what has me interested in pushing ETL.

[Tchill13]

Tchill out, dude.

what do you think of farside?

[Tchill13]

Farside seems alright, pretty even in the approach of the game atm.

Auro is meh lean scum. Little too much posts with little to no game comments for my liking this early.

ETL do you think ML as scum would be willing to grab the spot light and tunnel you on a semi absurd reason? do you consider that good scum play this early?

No. She's probably town.

auro - seems scummy b/c contentless posts. FIVE contentless posts.

Make it 8 now!

@Miss Lynch: I watched Community years ago, it's one of my FAVORITE shows! Sadly it's not on Netflix in India right now for another rewatch.

VOTE: Auro

Because I'm actually binging on a bunch of TV shows, don't want to expend much mental energy right now?

Sure: I've played with Miss Lynch before, skimmed her scum meta, and I believe this level of early conviction and emotion in a push is town indicative.
EspeciallyALiar for involvement, progressing the game, and pushing me when I was "buddying up" to the slot.
Vecna because he's my mason buddy.
farside for involvement, progressing the game, and familiar meta from a recent game.

hmmmk. thanks.

VOTE: hoctac

that didnt last long.

I find it odd you immediately vote the guy I was shading then back off after a pretty quick resolution when you've already showed you can play with some real conviction.

pretty easy to come out from your suspicion it seems ETL.

[Tchill13]

@farside: that was sort of a contentless joke; when Nero accused Vecna of being scum sitting back and encourage it, I joked that he and Vecna are TvT and I'm explicitly sitting back encouraging it.

good answer imo.

[Tchill13]

that didnt last long.

I find it odd you immediately vote the guy I was shading then back off after a pretty quick resolution when you've already showed you can play with some real conviction.

pretty easy to come out from your suspicion it seems ETL.

I was interested in Auro because he had said absolutely nothing of an import. I wanted to get more from him. I did.

I don't want to play with conviction anymore. It doesn't do any good.

I just found it odd that i vote you, i shade someone, you vote said shade then you move on relatively quick.

Its a little weird that nobody really pushed you after the fiasco but it seems like your handling of auro will suffice for now.

UNVOTE:

[Tchill13]

VOTE: vecna

[Tchill13]

yeah i dont want to get caught up in what could be just a coincidence. dont worry about it lol. No reason for you to play specifically according to me when nobody else other than ML wants to push you.

[Tchill13]

Spoiler: Avatar for Hoctac

@tchill, you've played w/ Vecna before? He feels really townie.

If I have its been a while and my play regarding him has nothing to do with experience of him. Is he townie due to meta or is there something in particular about this game?

unless i play with particualr ppl repeatedly over a short amount of time I tend to forget them. I'm sure what vecna says is true though

i havent played an entire game in quite a while.

[Tchill13]

This type of trying hard is the good type of trying hard though

because all the points they make are quite good, and such public displays of "townyness" are often faked

Nero cain especially with his reservation afterwards due to setup weirdness

I can only approve of such

does it have anything to do with him defending you from the start of the debacle?

@ML

[Tchill13]

Townreads on farside, EspeciallyTheLies, Miss Lynch, Vecna.

Alchemist you wanna try and explain what feels off in Vecna's tone? I find certain elements almost exactly matching his play in the last game I've seen him town in, like somewhat exaggerated reasoning to townread someone early.

This wasn't the approach I thought I would see people would take in the game though, considering it's basically a bastard cult game.

Yeah.....this shit is gonna fuck with me bigtime

alignment changes? oof

Scratch the shit I told you Nero, hypersuspicion is back on the menu

this just pings me. Seems like the "realization" would make him seem more town. He defended ML but never pushed ETL. Waited till the end to call that TvT.

Seems to have sprinkled in playful banter with auro and nero.

very easy sailing on vecna's ship atm. Some would say he's just riding the wave. Not rocking the boat.... (out of boat euphemisms)

[Tchill13]

It just seems strange that the player who read all the general rules missed the setup information.

And this is why ML looked even townier in the initial interaction

UNVOTE:

It was mainly to see what would happen. I liked what I seen.

[Tchill13]

Bottom of 7. It's a work day and posting speed is exceeding reading speed.
I didn't notice the player list that much before. Hype.

VOTE: Hoctac
for making an alt/hydra that I'm going to confuse with too many people.

<in before someone says "ooh, delayed rvs after he had already posted!!!!">

was hoping there'd be a semi serious reason here?

VOTE: hoctac

[Tchill13]

awesome that mastina is here. I'll be able to be on longer tomorrow, work has been rough.

the hard ETL scum read is odd. Feel like they're more than likely town since I last posted.

[Tchill13]

okay had coffee, woke up and thought about this game. It isn't normal. I came at this as scum hunting, looking for scum and trying to find things that pinged me like normal.
The issue is that many players are playing really weird. There is a number of them that just do whatever and don't care.
I realized with scum infecting players that just acting out leaves no room for a good read and I thought why wouldn't scum do that? Hide amoung those that do nothing.
So I got my list together; did some iso and would lynch among the following:

Hotac, 5G, Jake the Wolf (actively lurking) Flavor Leaf, Tchill (This one has more of my attention because I see he has serious comment but then votes are not matching reads and he follows wagons).

No read: Ari, momo (probably needs to be replaced as I didn't see he was posting anywhere), 50 Judge

im developing reads and looking at reactions, especially as early as it was when i was last active.

[Tchill13]

anyways mastina scum slipped when she asked whether this game is a joke/serious to mask her indecisiveness to post in this game only to then serious post for the next page

It's a psychological slip and nothing will make me unvote this slot I think

I dont like this, if you're being serious.

[Tchill13]

1) how you can have that many reads so early if it's serious?

How could I not?

People have posted. Almost the entire playerlist in fact.

You can develop reads off of as little as one post--when almost every slot in the game has

more

than one post, and I have experience with a fair number of these players, again. How could I

not

have serious reads on them?

The scumreads are, rather notably, much much much weaker compared to the opposite-end-of-the-scale townreads, because it is much easier to get good early townreads than good early scumreads, but overall all of the reads (especially the town ones) pretty much all feel good, all feel

right

.

...Plus. I'm pretty much a player whose strength lies in pretty much the beginning, or very end, of the game with almost no in-between. If I am good in the earlygame I won't be good in the midgame and frequently won't be good in the lategame with me having done all the good I will do; if I am good in the lategame, it's because I sucked ass in the midgame and probably am alive only through having been trash in the earlygame too.

But, being good in the earlygame is happening to me much much much more often than anything else because, I dunno. Just ease of getting reads easily? Heck if I know where the success comes from, it just

does

.

I dont mind mastina having such detailed reads so early, but its only because of her reputation. I understand Dave's issue with it as normally I would agree but I think mastina's rep has earned her the ability to justify such in depth reads so early. I don't give this benefit of the doubt to many players fyi.

[Tchill13]

@mastina, flesh out your FL read because that cannot be read at this point IMO.

I'm honestly not sure how to. It's basically just, what I think based off of FL being FL. He's not being hyper-invested in this game, not being hyper-active, not being hyper-strong, whatever you'd like to say.

So given that, there's two possible worlds:
FL is not invested as town,
Or FL is not invested as scum.

Those two are the only two scenarios possible here, because FL is self-evidently not strongly invested (at least not yet).

FL has gotten sick of drawing scum, so there's a precedent for him possibly not being invested as scum--

however

, even when FL is sick of drawing scum, my memory is that he's usually still more active than he is in this game even with him having drawn an alignment he's tired of playing. More than that, I'm not even sure he's tired of drawing scum anymore, because it's been a while since he constantly rolled scum, and that break might've been enough to reset the metric and make him no longer sick of it.

Between those things, I more or less think it far more likely that FL is just not invested as town, because FL as town

can

have games where he's not very invested. It's not an absolute though because I obviously could be mistaken about things regarding FL. Life circumstances, his mindset, his attitude, the exact specifics of his meta, etc. There's lots of things which make the theory not absolute, thus, not a stronger townread but enough of a townread where I don't think he needs focus any time soon.

after a while the only way you can play if you're rep has such an effect on how you're played with is to just sit back early as either alignment. The past few times I've played with him he's not been invested much at all early game.

[Tchill13]

Quick, your salt dries and hardens my sturdy pole.
I will never die.
While you babble on about reads and who's this or who's that, there is a war brewing in your cells.
I am...zzz.z..z...z.z..z.zz..z..z.z..Spanos!
Get it? Because my glorious 5G Network spans across the globe?
Damn, I'm good.
Except, who the fuck still cares about The Avengers?
Fuck it, I'm not Spanos. I'm 5G Tower, that shits threatening enough.
I mean, why mess with a classic, right?

we can lynch this. Just another schtick for someone who doenst know how to play with real content when they roll scum so they fluff as either alignment to get by 24/7.

unless someone has history with this player and can dispute my statement?

[Tchill13]

And my excitement was and is genuine considering this is my first non newbie game in like 3 years. I was invited, saw the player list, and the proposed theme, and was very much looking forward to the game. My excitement was shot down as “not optimal town play” and I’ve lost my desire to be heavily involved this day phase. If you think you can argue that’s alignment indicative you need to re-evaluate your methods of pushing mislynches.

its an easy out d1 if you did roll scum. Its justifiable AtE.

if you rolled town I'd hope you can look past the early stuff and play with the same vigor.

[Tchill13]

Why has Vecna disappeared? Who, besides me, would lynch farside?

whats the issue with farside? I like what I've seen from them so far.

[Tchill13]

I feel like conventional wisdom says that hotac and 5g would

NOT

play this poorly as town but then there is that sliver of doubt that they are just scum that are posting yet adding nothing to the game. Lynching them would be mostly a policy lynch, imo.

im not gonna get into the stupid argument i always get into about ppl getting a pass for playing purposefully dumb 24/7, but I understand.

even if they were to roll scum id argue theyre more inclined to play that way due to the amount of good players in here.

perfect candidates to infect as they'll probably not get lynched.

but at the end of the day its a policy I suppose.

[Tchill13]

what are the chances momo 5G and mastina are the scums? Confirmed but not posted...?

I heard mastina was having internet issues.
Whats your thought on hotoc?
He's got the vi read for me.

I don’t think that fits the posts. What I’m seeing is fluff and non-game-moving posts. Meaningless content. Looking active rather than being active. That speaks to scum motivation to me.

Been there, seen it. Usually I see scum pushing for lynches of fluffy posters.

Yeah... no. Either you’re scumhunting or you’re not town. Period.

Well... ETL is null for me. mainly because iv'e seen this mindset mixed with an easily rageable personality b4 and its pretty easy to fake rage as scum when it is constantly spewed as town for this person.

[Tchill13]

@nero would you consider my early game actual scum hunting opposed to farside's?

I liked farside mainly due to the questions early game. If farside thinks they were hollow im not sure if I should have liked farside that much for them.

[Tchill13]

no we cant but I have a dream where we site wide PL players like this for 3 months and irradicate the mindset lol

VOTE: saudade

[Tchill13]

mastina, auro, farside are all the players i like for town atm.

ETL is hard null.

saudade is a legit SR. Kind of an arrogance with the posting that pings me.

[Tchill13]

@nero would you consider my early game actual scum hunting opposed to farside's?

I liked farside mainly due to the questions early game. If farside thinks they were hollow im not sure if I should have liked farside that much for them.

This was a fat juicy pitch over the plate and it wasn't swung on. I'm disappointed.

Has there been followup on those questions, or even any evidence in being interested in the answers?

not atm. Wonder what the difference was between my questions and far side's though.

I like dave for pointing this out.

[Tchill13]

Im null on faside now btw.

I liked farsides questioning early but farside thinks its hollow.

Nero thinks im legit scumhunting more than farside.

farside doesnt agree and is pushing me as scum.

[Tchill13]

Im null on faside now btw.

I liked farsides questioning early but farside thinks its hollow.

Nero thinks im legit scumhunting more than farside.

farside doesnt agree and is pushing me as scum.

Interesting take as you admit farside isn't scum hunting.

farside them self said it was hollow what am I supposed to think of that lol.

[Tchill13]

no we cant but I have a dream where we site wide PL players like this for 3 months and irradicate the mindset lol

VOTE: saudade

theres a reason i dont play as much as i used to

but im not here to argue. noted that you dont agree with pushing nobodies.

[Tchill13]

TOWN
Auro
Quick
Vecna
Dave
Miss Lynch
Nero
Alchemist
Farside

NULL
Creature
Jake
50
Elements
Flavor leaf

PL
5G
Voted
Saudade

SCUM
Mastina
Hoctac?
Ari?
Tchill

whats my reason for being scum? Farside's case or do you have something?

[Tchill13]

Why is Tchill being wagoned? I’m relying on him being an anchor for me when I find the time to be here

"Thank you, Not so random citizen"

farside pushed me with the same reasoning nero was shading farside.

ppl wagoned just because. #JustEarlyGameThings

[Tchill13]

Im null on faside now btw.

I liked farsides questioning early but farside thinks its hollow.

Nero thinks im legit scumhunting more than farside.

farside doesnt agree and is pushing me as scum.

That was an easy shift.

So pliable Tchill. What is up?

Was Nero right on you and Farside going on secret dates?

I dont see the point in having stiff reads early game. Especially early d1. I try to poke a lot of things at this stage. No exclusive dating for me yet.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Tchill13

Lot of controversy on this slot so going to vote it.

You destroyed my town read with a single post. That’s talent.

VOTE: quick
I’m not moving from this until it’s gone. Make it happen.

VOTE: Tchill13

Lot of controversy on this slot so going to vote it.

You destroyed my town read with a single post. That’s talent.

VOTE: quick
I’m not moving from this until it’s gone. Make it happen.

Learn to play. Thanks.

LOL.

I think quick is town. ETL i lean town on atm.

[Tchill13]

Ok so some more random thoughts.

Overall I think Farside probably redeemed the situation and is not looking so bad.

Im going out on a limb and form a strong townread on Tchill based purely on the fact he called me out on making the statement that the infections were going to fuck with me. Town mindset,

looking for scum trying to fake townslips, smoothly making calls like that with lvl 2 logic

. Hardly ever done by scum on the fly like that.

I love Auro. but. He actually has not done a single thing outside of his scumrange. I thought the reaction test was a bit gimicky.

well ik how to upgrade my scum game now. thanks. It's actually a good point.

[Tchill13]

ETL is pretty scummy with some of her takes, like the over the top one on Quick just now. Happy to lynch her whenever.

Tchill has momentum though and I've always wanted to sit on the front row of a bus before, so I'm staying on board just in case we get more passengers.

historically when i see confidence from a player thats similar to how ETL is operating its almost always town. the "over the top" part is kind of a key indicator for that.

[Tchill13]

I only SR Tchill for his horrible post about 5G.

back tracking and making excuses really quick

if you disagree then you disagree. its NAI.

[Tchill13]

I am 100% convinced Quick is scum. A very good scum, but scum nonetheless.

it lines up. Not only does ETL think quick is scum for falling for a specific thing but Quick is "good" scum and ETL caught them on

ETL's

"trap"

It's a bit egotistical. Thats almost always town (and Im not being derogatory or negative about ETL.)

[Tchill13]

I only SR Tchill for his horrible post about 5G.

back tracking and making excuses really quick

if you disagree then you disagree. its NAI.

It just felt weird, honestly. IDK why you said it the way you did, basically.

because that type of thing has ruined my experience as a whole and its just ppl destroying the game the games they play town in to make their scum games easier.

Thats my final thought on it. hope its enough.

[Tchill13]

funnily enough, id normally scumread and death tunnel someone into the ground for this level of dissonance from my own thoughts, but I cant shake the feeling the slot actually believes the stuff its producing and is willing to start 7 new crusades over it.

Feel better about vecna being town.

[Tchill13]

I don’t think it’s fair. Everyone else gets to be part of the conversation. They get to make votes and posts and have a discussion. No one talks to me. That talk around me about me and say how I must be some terrible player. Do you know how frustrating that gets? Knowing you have good things to contribute and no one gives a shit? This has been a common theme for the last few games I’ve played and I’m sick of it.

It may sound arrogant but I have a probable track record of being a great scum hunter. This isn’t a brag it’s a researchable thing. Knowing that about my own work and being treated like a fucking noob is awful. I don’t expect anything other than what everyone else gets. And I don’t even get that.

hope you figure out how to have more fun. Ik thats frustrating.

I'd like to pressure suadade if youd be interested in that. I feel really good about vecna as town and pretty decent about quick. MAinly due to the narcissism and blatant back tracking on me. Wasnt graceful at all.

[Tchill13]

Until a few people actually did vote tchill and then suddenly that was ok. You also waited to jump on the mastina wagon as I recall.

this is a great way to read ppl its just too damn early to live and die by this imo.

Quick has been blatant in vote hopping and now back tracking on me. nothing smooth or calculated about any of their plays atm.

[Tchill13]

Setup is confusing. Why would mafia kill a recruitee?

the disease theoretically wouldnt let you have control over who lived and died. and it wouldnt be much of a disease to be scared of if it didnt kill anyone it infected. just saying.

[Tchill13]

I have been constantly telling people not to fuck everything up in 4 days when Town begins to totally lose it and starts acting mentally challenged.

I chuckled. so true lmao.

"you get a wagon, you get a wagon, we've wagoned scum but we havent wagoned enough on d1, so lets wagon town and mislynch, cool? cool."

[Tchill13]

OH. THATS HOW YOU GAIN IMMUNITY MAYBE? Like IRL, getting infected with a virus, you fight it, get antibodies and become IMMUNE.

antibodies for the win.

[Tchill13]

Omg this is COVID we can’t just go around spreading it in order to get immunity. We have to

FLATTEN THE CURVE

fyi this is the first thing i seen when i sat down and was curious how this came up. im not disappointed.

[Tchill13]

"traps" and "reaction tests" are kinda low tier plays

VOTE: ari

please dont start a shade throwing contest. i remembered our spat but im still cool lol.

id just like to keep the atmosphere on the lighter side. its obvious enough we can get on the more toxic side without having to try.

[Tchill13]

What do you think about hoctac?

i have made the same argument countless times.

hoctac will more than likely never make a contribution that impacts the game. He will never be lynched or nk'd and if im scum he's going to the endgame with me (as any decent scum player would do, drag players that put you in a position to win to lylo)

seeing as d1 is the day we're going to be the least likely to lynch scum i almost always propose we lynch a KNOWN non contributal player this day phase to at least 100 percent accomplish something while still having the opportunity to lynch scum, because anyone worth their weight in scum play does not have to play like this as town to win as scum.

that said, id be fine with them getting run up, even lynched if the behavior didnt change at L-3 or L-2.

(this usually gets shot down as me looking for an easy lynch d1 or a handful of players egos believeing theyre too good to fathom they cant 100 percent catch scum d1)

ive been known to change how i play to try and manipulate specific ppl such as flavor but its been a while since i last played and basically self meta is shit so ill just stop now lmao.

[Tchill13]

enough ppl have openly TR'd auro for me to be fine with that slot. I lean town there to begin with and it just seems like a general consensus atm.

[Tchill13]

Gosh, can someone just summarize what happened in the last few hours?

an ETL and Quick argument.

game setup discussion.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: mastina
i've never seen more transparent scum posting ever in my life

btw i didnt read the game/setup details, is this a scum vs town or scum vs town vs zombies(infected) or something?

Knew it! I actually thought about PMing the mod when I saw you sign in, but the jerk in me thought I shouldn't be a jerk about it (talk about oxymorons)

VOTE: Saudade

You can walk back to Vienna for all I care.

idk you
but that seems like an excuse to vote me(?)

anyways mastina scum slipped when she asked whether this game is a joke/serious to mask her indecisiveness to post in this game only to then serious post for the next page

like 7 of 35ish posts is about a mastina scum slip, everything else is fluff.

they play with a bravado that seems like they're pretty experienced. I'd expect better play if they are the type im getting the vibes they are.

too much fluff. Started a wagon on what i would presume is one of the best players here (seen little to no sus of mastina b4 this)

doesnt sit right with me this early. If saudade is good you eliminate top threats as scum early. Fluff + (I FOUND SCUM SLIP)+ pushing a top scum threat early (if mastina is town) = scum

[Tchill13]

Day 1, I have no information or flips to work with, so I'll be in cruise control, observing in the background.

Day 2, it's still pretty early and 99% of players will claim to have "reads" and "feelings" when in reality they might as well consult a random number generator for their reads which would probably be just as if not more accurate.

Day 3, there's been a few flips by now. I could maybe make one weak read, MAX two. We're getting somewhere.

Day 4, I might be able to make my first scumread. This depends on whether I'm a cop with a guilty though. If not, I'll probably have a townread at this point.

.
.
.

Day 7, now THIS is where the fun begins. At this point the game will be cracked wide open for me with all the info. While most players will be scrambling to find some dumb solves that they think hold any ground, I'll hard ANALYSE and BREAK OPEN the thread, and come up with a scumsolve in a matter of days. I'm not kidding, this WILL happen if I'm alive on Day 7. I have a proven track record, and scum would be idiots to leave me alive until then.

I agree with the overall sentiment but ive figured out a way im comfortable playing with the same mindset that you just stated while also trying to contribute to actual game play. To each their own I guess. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Tchill13]

Hoctac is still memeing, Tchill

oh well.

[Tchill13]

Do you believe a player having those qualities posts like saudade does?

I believe that its a decent scum strat early.

I look for what has equity in scum motivation. Saudade has the most atm based on their actions. Enough for me to pause on running up hoctac.

Its not too calculated or just stupid. very right down the middle and i get the vibe theyre better than that as town which leads me to believe theyd look for a similar approach to what theyre doing as scum.

[Tchill13]

Vecna’s tone feels off in most of his posts.

VOTE: Vecna

You know I'm going to want more from you then this as an explanation.

I’m not really sure how to explain it better. It just comes off as awkward and he was a little pockety towards Nero. I’m not confident on the read but I think it’s a better vote than anyone else so far.

I'll give you some breathing room, because I want to play with you, but I will be keeping an eye on you.

The Fire Alchemist was a lot cooler than this new guy you have, Alchemist. My townread is slipping.

vote: Hoctac

I have no clue how you get hesitant to take a side when I said I see you both as town.

y r they both town?

ML read like she really thought she caught scum. She was pushing on EtL to get to see what he did. She actively pushed her point and I don't see that coming from scum.
EtL is more of a gut read from the interaction. I get the buzzwords looking scummy because I have thought that in the past when someone uses ms lingo to create a case.
They just both read as though they both are right about what they are saying and neither one looks like they were hiding or taking time to say what there thoughts were.
I don't see too many times scum being reactionary this early.

Or, you know, we can just be coronabuddies

Wouldn't infecting each other mean we are then coronabuddies

What if ETL/Miss Lynch is just TvT and scum Vecna is sitting back and just trying to encourage it? 34 was p odd.

Vecna/Nero Cain TvT and I encourage it!

Auro: im still wanting an explanation about you town read here.

what are the chances momo 5G and mastina are the scums? Confirmed but not posted...?

I heard mastina was having internet issues.
Whats your thought on hotoc?
He's got the vi read for me.

okay had coffee, woke up and thought about this game. It isn't normal. I came at this as scum hunting, looking for scum and trying to find things that pinged me like normal.
The issue is that many players are playing really weird. There is a number of them that just do whatever and don't care.
I realized with scum infecting players that just acting out leaves no room for a good read and I thought why wouldn't scum do that? Hide amoung those that do nothing.
So I got my list together; did some iso and would lynch among the following:

Hotac, 5G, Jake the Wolf (actively lurking) Flavor Leaf, Tchill (This one has more of my attention because I see he has serious comment but then votes are not matching reads and he follows wagons).

No read: Ari, momo (probably needs to be replaced as I didn't see he was posting anywhere), 50 Judge

She’s coming back to the site after being away for years and people back then usually gave reasons for their votes instead of wagoning for wagoning’s sake so it makes sense to me that she’s be thrown off and all the loose votes being thrown around. I’m not even sure she was active back when spamposting was a huge issue

Does this apply to her since this is NOT her first game back. And ppl have been blindly sheeping since as long as mafia has been around so I don't really feel like thats a valid excuse for her to "thrown off"

I mostly agree with Quick that your wagon seems random and reasonless but this was kinda I thought

This game has way more blind sheeping then normal.
Lots more moving votes and shit posting. People saying something mastina said looked scummy, which I disagree with, while players pile on votes.
So then i think, am I in crazy town? Is it me?

I think these are all town indicative post.

I usually give ppl a pass for scum reading me early (sometimes I even TR them for it as I've become pretty aware of my play as either alignment) and I think it's understandable. We're in early game. She voted hoctac for memeing but seeing a reason for a new push (fair reasoning imo, but you can also view my early play as actual scum hunting, theres different perspectives) she voted me but then she even EXPLAINS that shes getting village idiot vibes from hoctac.

So I can easily see her voting me if she wanted to make a new push on someone new but also wanted to move off hoctac.

[Tchill13]

Pretty likely scum is in the lurkers. We should be wagoning there.

"screams Suaded louder"

[Tchill13]

i get the vibe theyre better than that as town

Hmm. I guess this just isn’t enough for me. Hoctac is at least posting some things that are game related and people are reacting to them which will be useful post-flip.

kinda weak reasoning if thats why youre sticking with hoctac and opposing new pushes.

i dont even care if you join me, but youre statement can be applied to more than just hoctac. were 45ish pages in.

PEdit: I do agree with ETLS point that if were lynching LHF its hoctac.

[Tchill13]

thats hard to pull of in the right manner when the intent is already known.

[Tchill13]

suaded is a lurker...

lurking around the wuhan facility and getting us infected. he needs to GO.

[Tchill13]

Actually, no. This is spicier...

VOTE: Miss Lynch

suaded is a lurker...

lurking around the wuhan facility and getting us infected. he needs to GO.

I'd rather go here, honestly.

VOTE: Jake the Wolfie

quick is just making it known hes not voting suadade lol.

[Tchill13]

I like annoying Nero.

I'm not very annoyed. try harder.

If i remember correctly i can teach you how auro lmao.

[Tchill13]

Saud actually adds value to the game and all these other players don't

wat

thank goodness someone else disagrees.

[Tchill13]

mans got 5 posts and yall are drawing a linew between him and hoctac/suadade.

cool.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Creature

BTW Nero, you're sheeping me on Creature. Remember that.

vote number 3.

[Tchill13]

Actually, no. This is spicier...

VOTE: Miss Lynch

suaded is a lurker...

lurking around the wuhan facility and getting us infected. he needs to GO.

I'd rather go here, honestly.

VOTE: Jake the Wolfie

quick is just making it known hes not voting suadade lol.

why are you voting suadade

"Scum Slip!!!!"

youve done it twice now. its all youve really done.

[Tchill13]

do you scumread me or what more content from me tchill13

sr you

[Tchill13]

On page 40 we have Quick talking to ETL about two completely different things like they are connected.

I agree that Quick's "ooh my meta has changed did anyone notice" post was rather self centered. I don't even know who Quick is, might as well be a completely new player as far as I'm concerned. So no, I didn't notice a change.

Pedit: I don't know if creature's one line posting is AI. Gimme another 20 pages and I might have an idea.

yeah this whole quick thing is weird. hes obviously confident but i just see a lot of kicking and screaming. way too much vote hopping. no concrete consistent effort in any direction.

[Tchill13]

Page 50. Making a note that Quick started vote hopping after being accused of being an opportunistic vote follower. Not claiming this as a causal relationship but it is an important observation.

town leaning dave for catching this and being dead on about the observation.

I think its probable theres a relationship there though.

[Tchill13]

Ofc! Because I never voted for Saudade!

no, its because you wanted to make a point to NOT vote saudade. you changed your vote 3 times in a 15-20 minute window where i was heavbiily pushing him.

you obviously werent voting to pressure or wagon. you made your point clear.

if you were to go in one direction rn and try to form an actual wagon who is it and whats your case?

[Tchill13]

I think if ETL ends up being scum Quick is prob a green pm. That whole "stop being mean to quick" feels buddyish and scummy.

Like I don't really see how one reads him and isn't annoyed

by his weird stances and rapid vote hoping. OTH, you could

kinda

interpret it as scum trying to find traction and get out of d1.

we just seen ETL get pretty damn mad then become ultra aware of their tone and try to be nicer.

I think what youre talking about has more to do with personality than a "move" in the game.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: creature

I dont like what im seeing from them either.

[Tchill13]

Okay, who ELSE have I not voted?

I will give you a hint: Not Auro.

this is pointless to entertain.

Who would be you main push and whats your case? we're 60ish pages in. theres 20 other players.

give me something to work with.

[Tchill13]

Okay, who ELSE have I not voted?

I will give you a hint: Not Auro.

this is pointless to entertain.

Who would be you main push and whats your case? we're 60ish pages in. theres 20 other players.

give me something to work with.

Pretty sure I was the first person to say Creature is Scum. But you agree there, so why push me?

creature is an easy push here regardless. I;d just like to see you do something a little different than what youve been doing.

[Tchill13]

jesus, he's not pushing you (i think)

expand on why im caught scum. Dont fake a guilty on me d1 please.

[Tchill13]

Okay, any suggestions?

the point is for you to do something different under you own ambitions.

Why dont you want me to make any strong stances atm?

[Tchill13]

i'll get to it. if it something I was totally convinced of I'd be voting you.

oh so nothing is there, cool.

[Tchill13]

Okay, any suggestions?

the point is for you to do something different under you own ambitions.

Why dont you want me to make any strong stances atm?

Your case on me is weak.

not as weak as your pushes.

[Tchill13]

i'll get to it. if it something I was totally convinced of I'd be voting you.

oh so nothing is there, cool.

like I've already kinda explained it so I'm not sure why you are jumping down my throat here. I would say this is false bravado but I've played with you and I know you are vengefully snappish like this. In fact it's the reason why I lightly suspected you. You didn't snap @ Farside and I thought that was very odd.

if i can see a justifiable perspective for someone to sr me I tend to TR them for it. Especially early game.

I do tend to get a little more aggressive mid to late game. And if I find someones play inexcusable id become very harsh. That has more so to do with ppl going out of their way to play the game against their wincon from my perspective though. Ik im not the end all be all but i feel I have a decent grasp. I'll admit im wrong sometimes.

[Tchill13]

Is farside still null to you, Tchill? What do you think of her scum reading you?

That has more so to do with ppl going out of their way to play the game against their wincon from my perspective though.

I mean sure, I think alot of green pms are stupidly OMGUSy. I think these last 2 or so times when I've flipped scum there were all like "oh I get the case on me." and its just really weird. I mean, there's a decent amount of scum motivation to town read the person that is scum reading you.

Can you show me some examples of town you town reading players for scum reading you?

from this game in particular? only farside.

I've never linked my own games or have meta dove any other players. if youd like to do that be my guest but id rather not have to link you something. I totally understand the motivation its just something ive never done.

[Tchill13]

if youd like to do that be my guest but id rather not have to link you something. I totally understand the motivation its just something ive never done.

I don't see why that you've never done it should mean you don't do it now. This should be significantly easier for you to recall and retrieve than someone else.

Otherwise he'll say that since he's seen town frequently OMGUS and scum frequently avoid that, you're more likely scum for it: thoughts?

idc if someone wants to play me on meta or not. fair game if so but said player can do the leg work. Only time I use meta is when i personally recall play after building familiarity with someone. I dont use meta in the since of looking up things so I respectfully decline to post links of self referral instances. That said I understand what that may bring about. I have no qualms about it.

[Tchill13]

ok.

so listen up. when i flip town, please look at the people who pushed me with poor cases and made up bullshit. LEARN FROM THIS.

VOTE: ETL

sheesh thats early for a self defeatist attitude.

[Tchill13]

what about Dragon's day

thats the fatherload.

[Tchill13]

I love the fact im practically dead middle on mastina's read list. The middle is where you want to be.

Vecna
Miss lynch
ETL

Auro
dave
farside
mastina

creature
Suadade

if youre not listed i dont feel youve made enough impact / i need to sort you.

[Tchill13]

mastina is lean town for reference.

bottom 2 are lean scum.

[Tchill13]

ok.

so listen up. when i flip town, please look at the people who pushed me with poor cases and made up bullshit. LEARN FROM THIS.

VOTE: ETL

sheesh thats early for a self defeatist attitude.

It’s not defeatist. It’s helpful for town to see me flip. There are enough people talking about me that lynching me will yield high info. I’m not getting anything done being active so I can be useful dead.

ETL is checking off all the boxes for annoyed, highly confident TOWN player btw.

[Tchill13]

ETL wagon is GROSS.

PEdit: Hocatc is GROSS. jk lol.

but seriously i disagee with the ETL pushes.

[Tchill13]

It may sound arrogant but I have a probable track record of being a great scum hunter.

Yeah, exactly.
And you're not showing it.
You're complaining instead of scumhunting.

Complaining about various stuff in a "woe is me" manner, instead of doing that great scumhunting.

The majority of your posts are not pushing players; the majority of your posts are AtE.
You're not giving reasons for the majority of your reads and the few reasons you have given are largely shallow, surface-level thoughts that have no real depth to them. You're not following through on those thoughts; you're not pushing your reads; you're instead complaining and blaming everyone around you for this.

Which is why I say--if you're town, that's a total failure on your part, where you have every power in the world to have pushed more and done more, but are choosing to blame everyone else, choosing to say it's the fault of the rest of the town rather than your own doing.

But if you're scum, there's no failure at all, because that play is precisely the optimal scum play to make, especially in a game of this nature.

You're doing things that are optimal for scum but are, for a town player, an objective failure of an approach.

The respect I have in your capabilities as a player, the respect I have in your competency,

demands

that in an assessment of your play, balance of probability, that the play that is self-explanatory as scum but which makes no sense as town, is just you as scum.

im starting to think mastina vs ETL is getting spicy.

[Tchill13]

ETL wagon is GROSS.

PEdit: Hocatc is GROSS. jk lol.

but seriously i disagee with the ETL pushes.

Tchill and me are now masons for this game. Well, at least for D1

if we just stay 6 ft from one another we're masons the entire game.

Especially since im 2 shot infect proof via my mask (im joking)

[Tchill13]

I dunno, that self vote is kinda

ate

y and just makes me wanna kill it.

I’m fine with that. I’d like to know what your plan is when I flip town. Who will you be looking at?

these ppl that claim ETL is playing a terrible scum game...

I dont see scum motivation in what she's doing. Its too poor a scum game for someone to be scum. Especially when I see high praise from mastina given to ETL.

If anything im more weary of mastina now.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: mastina

dave is killing it as far as mind melding with me goes.

Vecna
dave
Mislynch

are my strongest TR's by a mile.

ETL would be put in there with the exception that i've seen easy aggro players fake this type of thing as scum b4. I believe shes town but not on the lvl of the other 3.

[Tchill13]

Do you think it is really that simple? Asking for a friend.

yes. Im consistently most correct about my "too bad to be scum" and "So narcissistic they have to be town" reads.

ETL has fallen into both categories (in the most respectful way possible)

[Tchill13]

While I work on other things this is acceptable.
VOTE: Creature
Reason previously given.

Acceptable wagon. Creature would be among the lurkerslots likely to be scum.
The others being Aristophanes, 50 Judge Powers, and Jake the Wolfie, as of 1556.

That group of four players doesn't contain three scum, but at this point, probably

does

contain two scum. 50/50 shot, not the worst of odds to take. (Admittedly we'll be a bit fucked if we choose a town in there, but only due to the fact that doing so will cause us to not continue lynching in the group in spite of the odds moving from 50/50 to 66/33 with a town mislynch.)

it is slightly irritating to think you actually believe the game is this easy.

I almost dont believe you actually think that.

[Tchill13]

When I get to L1 I’ll move my vote over to mastina to preserve VCA.

7 votes other than yourself from being lynched.

this whole thing is NAI imo seeing how I think theres motivation to do this as either alignment.

that said it is a tad annoying. I've got 3 strong TR's and youd be my next add but youre not playing like you need to for me to add you.

[Tchill13]

Do you think it is really that simple? Asking for a friend.

yes. Im consistently most correct about my "too bad to be scum" and "So narcissistic they have to be town" reads.

ETL has fallen into both categories (in the most respectful way possible)

Okay, how about not with meta because meta is horrible?

ok. I think its pretty damn simple.

ETL has been too loud today. She got frustrated super quick (ego tell) got close to toxic in the blink of an eye (aggressive) laid a "trap" that immediately worked and "caught" scum (confbias/ego tell) literally gave up on the game when she had 4/11 votes (just trash to go for the AtE that early d1, when scum will have the easiest day phase more than likely) you cant convince me she's throwing as scum to set 2, 3 ppl up thats hard defending her? Gonna give up 1/3rd of the scum team this early for that? ABSURD. She's frustrated and she's a confident player. Her game atm if we KNEW she was scum is a hot pile of garbage.

She's town. Its pretty damn simple.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: mastina

and this player is too good to push that as scum imo.

[Tchill13]

None of that is AI.

thats fine if you dont think so. Most would probably agree with you.

[Tchill13]

Tchill townread. But, I disagree with his arguments.

Literally

every game I've played this year I've seen "too wolfy to be a wolf" scum, self-voting AtE scum, scum bussing unnecessarily.

a lot of ppl disagree with me. Its all good lol.

[Tchill13]

its all about assessing what a specific player is capable of and going from there. Its more of a game theory discussion, but it just means I need to get better at explaining things in a way that allows me to be heard. There's some very narrow mindsets in the community but if I fail to get someone to at least try and see the perspective im not doing my job.

anyways, I stand by my ETL read. lean town there. A lot of ppl pushing ETL is surface lvl stuff imo. I just give ETL more credit than that personally.

[Tchill13]

Well, you are applying some sort of burden of proficiency for Mastina scumreading her, so I'd like to iron this out anyway!

im willing to have the convo. Mastina apparently has experience with ETL and im getting vibes that mastina is wrong about ETL and thats now what I expect from someone that believes ETL is competent and has experience with them.

[Tchill13]

TBF, I think mastina pretty regularly overrates herself.

TBF everyone here does. Mastina has more reason to than most.

[Tchill13]

TBF, I think mastina pretty regularly overrates herself.

TBF everyone here does. Mastina has more reason to than most.

Not me. I'm as good as I say I am. Never been wrong about a Serious Read before.

[Tchill13]

players like hoctac are in my mind the same person. its just 1 guy playing on unlimited alts that doesnt know how to play with actual content as scum so he plays dumb as town that way he has a chance as scum.

if you get really lucky said guy has multiple accounts in your game.

[Tchill13]

My point of disagreement, Tchill, is that you're saying ETL would have to be incompetent as scum to have played this way; and

I'm arguing that she doesn't need to be

. I don't think this put herself under any actual threat and I believe she would've changed her tune had consensus tried to lynch her.

yes she may find this strategy viable. Its something i personally see as a bad strat and I feel that it is overall a bad strat. Thats where the disagreement is and while I acknowledge its a possibility I'm not willing to change my mind about it.

she was under no real threat before she started acting a little odd in terms of self voting. Gave me the correct read on Miss lynch after detaching herself. I still think she's town.

[Tchill13]

yes she may find this strategy viable. Its something i personally see as a bad strat and I feel that it is overall a bad strat. Thats where the disagreement is and while I acknowledge its a possibility I'm not willing to change my mind about it.

Convince me on why it's a bad strat. She was under no threat of lynch when she played the AtE card, sitting at 4 votes.

grabbing the spotlight d1 early for no reason on a play to AtE when its not needed makes sense how?

[Tchill13]

ppl are voting elsewhere is exactly why scum use ATE even if its some well-intended gambit to force ppl to take a stance and do things or some misguided attempt @ outting scum

I just find it absurd someone would do that 4/11 votes in... on the 1st major wagon of d1... which almost never goes through anyway.

[Tchill13]

mastina/creature/suadade id happily lynch.

[Tchill13]

this is TMI from Tchill

maybe im just that good even though the only role ik is my own

[Tchill13]

if she's town and nowhere near the lynch why does she do this?

She's frustrated

?

I think you found your answer. The key is she also thinks highly of herself. not to an egotistical point but its very easy to get frustrated as a decent player when you feel nobody is listening and things are obvious.

[Tchill13]

Dave, I had been pushing on farside early today and one of the reasons was I felt she was just asking a bunch of questions intended to make herself look busy and there was a lack of scumhunting.

Tchill disagreed with me and felt she was scumhunting.

then farside came in and said she understood where I was coming from.

So when tchill said farside "thinks it's hollow" that's what he's referring to-her agreeing with me and disagreeing with tchill.

@dave this is correct. thx nero.

[Tchill13]

all ik for sure is 5g and hoctac are the ppl at retail stores that stand 1 ft behind someone in line in the middle of a pandemic.

[Tchill13]

AtE

That play only works once and mastina already did it.

well thats just false. AtE doesnt have a limit.

[Tchill13]

Tchills reasons for calling ETL Town are just IIOA and he doesn't say why they are AI (because they are not).

they are extremely AI to me, yall just disagree.

Deifferent things are NAI and AI for specific ppl depending on how well you've gauged their play style and ability to play. There is a LOT of room for error in this method but im comfortable playing this way.

Different ppl play the game in different ways. Which is one part of why "AI and NAI actions" does not exist on an equal lvl for every player

[Tchill13]

A lot of ppl pushing ETL is surface lvl stuff imo.

Yeah, pretty sure your reasons for TRing ETL is thin... really thin. But at least you say that ETL is a LEAN TOWN read, but that doesn't actually help you here since you are defending them pretty hard.

its because with their personality of EZ rage i've seen ppl that play that way as town tap into it as scum and walk to a win. So while im weary of the possibility too many other things make me believe ETL is town. Things you find thin, which is fine.

Its thicker than any stance youve taken regarding any player even from your perspective. You have no depth to your reads. You lack even "thin" reasoning. Its why you're a scum lean.

[Tchill13]

I understand what quick is going for if hes town here, with his playstyle, I feel like at least.

But we're 80 pages in.

[Tchill13]

In post 1909, Tchill13 wrote:
she was under no real threat before she started acting a little odd in terms of self voting.
Precisely why the action makes no sense as town but makes perfect sense as scum. She was under no real threat. As town, she therefore has no reason to have reacted that way. As scum, she does have a reason to react that way; to garner some cheap towncred and dissuade the efforts at wagoning her before they take off. It's a move that there was low-risk to pull, but incredibly high reward.

In post 1916, Tchill13 wrote:
grabbing the spotlight d1 early for no reason on a play to AtE when its not needed makes sense how?
Precisely because it's not needed--what does ETL in the spotlight risk as scum? She wasn't even close to lynch range.

There's a weight between the possible town motive for an action, and a possible scum motive for the action. The town motive for the action is...well, honestly, it's hard to tell because there isn't much of one. The scum motive for the action is to shut down the suspicion on her slot, play wounded gazelle to get sympathizers to help defend her and divide the town and break unity, get people who're suckers for AtE to townread her.

these are all good points from the flip side of the same coin. If someone is to argue my points this is how you do it.

[Tchill13]

btw idc what you think quick lol. I agree to disagree regarding the specifics of my read on ETL.

Im saying that i am open to certain perspectives but im not entertaining anything that is pointless from my perspective. Mastina's points are valid imo. I've not seen why yours should be.

While im open to the idea I stand by my argument of ETL town. I believe mastina has fair points but im going with MY gut on this one.

[Tchill13]

And beware, I might hammer without claiming intent.

@Everyone

this man has 400 plus posts. Can anyone think of any hard stances he's taken with in depth reads/content to back it up?


VOTE: quick

Mastina at least made sense in her argument (scum can make valid arguments)

but quick hasnt accomplished anything imo. I dont think they've generated any meaningful interactions or content but somehow they have 400 plus posts.

[Tchill13]

@mastina

I believe the personality of ETL has had a bearing on her play in this game. Which is what explains the reason for things that dont make sense as town but reward as scum IF she is town here.

Basically, Early blowup with ML (which happened super quickly) plus the hist of ego make me believe the personality is capable of effecting her play to the extent it has. I do concede you make fair points, hence the vote change.

[Tchill13]

this man has 400 plus posts. Can anyone think of any hard stances he's taken with in depth reads/content to back it up?

It's his wild inconsistency and complete free-flowing thought (or lack of it ) that's towny

He's not a slot you should evaluate as a "normal" mafia player.

@Vecna I am disappoint

noted. I'd like to see multiple opinions though.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Saudade

[Tchill13]

pst few pages of content have been meh.

takeover whenever fl. The only reason i play mafia is to view your glorious gamesolves haha.

[Tchill13]

whats the thoughts that mastina and fl sitting back means one is probably scum?

[Tchill13]

considering the setup this is the most important day for scum to live theoretically. so get through d1. become hyper active later on. let town run in circles and lynch themselves.

isnt that the optimal strat here?

especially given town takes stances against town that setup reads for later game all the while you just sit back and chill?

and the way this game is set up you have to reevaluate reads every day. let town fight town d1 and you can arguably line up lynches while infecting widely TR'd players.

occasionally infect one of the baggage slots and youre good to go. EZ scum win.

[Tchill13]

town reads can turn into effected.

but widely SR'd players will never turn to TR's.

[Tchill13]

LUL hilarious replace out.

why is that slot scum again? ETL's...

[Tchill13]

Night 1 begins!

After a long day of intense discussion and wildly flung accusations, the mayor and the rest of the town decide that EspeciallyTheLies is one of the conspirers. The local police goes to her home and executes her, and the rest of the town winds down for the night. Later that evening, a message arrives on the mayor's desk.

Dear Mayor of Plague Town:

I'm afraid your efforts are in vain. You executed one of your own citizens off of a conspiracy theory. Don't worry. Soon, there won't be a town to worry about.

Sincerely,
An Anonymous Plague Bringer

The mayor shakes his head and goes to sleep dejected.

EspeciallyTheLies,

Town Email Spammer

, was executed Day 1.

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome, EspeciallyTheLies, to SIR Disease Mafia!
You are a

Town Email Spammer

!

Even during these trying times, you still have a job to do. Each night, you may target a player. You will attempt to spam their email with junk mail, and if successful, your target will receive the following message:

Success

You received spam mail.

You win when all mafia conspirers and infected players are dead.
Alternatively, you win when a majority of living players gain permanent immunity to the disease.

Confirm by replying with your alignment and role name.

Night ends on May 16, 2020 10:30 AM EDT (GMT-4:00) or in (expired on 2020-05-16 10:30:00) (assuming I have a replacement at least a day before then). Night actions are due at least fifteen (15) minutes before this deadline.

Creature has (expired on 2020-05-14 19:05:00) to respond to the night start pm before I seek a replacement.

--- Received!

maybe i was lucky...

or maybe im playing at such a high level mastina and nero cant even comprehend.

[Tchill13]

It took the mod nearly an hour to calculate NA.

Here's my list:

FL
mastina
Vecna
Ari

Auro
Alchemist
farside
Voted
Miss Lynch

Hoctac
Elements
Tchill
A50
Creature

Jake the Wolfie
5G

Saudade

dave

VOTE: davesaz

garbage. Im down for quick or mastina to get gone.

[Tchill13]

Tchill's read on ETL might've been TMI, he seemed a little too confident throughout yesterday. Also, he seems a little too

chill

, and happy to watch from the background. I've played with scum!him before btw, so has Elements, we should be experts.

add hoctac to that list. I keep being told my reasons are NAI yet my reads keep being correct on those specific instances

[Tchill13]

Ugh

VOTE: davesaz

why.

Dave is pretty town imo. Ive already explained why. Whats your reasoning here?

[Tchill13]

But if you want to actually analyze this like I have maybe you would come to the exact same conclusion given you are in my shoes.

I have analyzed.

you, hoctac and mastina are the scummiest players atm.

dave and vecna's slot are my top 2 TR's.

[Tchill13]

Fine fine. So friendly neighbor. Which is basically a child on steroids.

No, not friendly neighbor. Friendly neighbor still confirms their role. She would have been

likely

at best, and given she didn't claim anything or do anything prior to being lynched, there was no way anyone could have known. Additionally, friendly neighbor is a weaker role than innocent child. Get the fuck off your high horse. Yes, town was lynched yesterday, but the town that was lynched yesterday was not comfortable in any way, offered no mechanical advantage in any way other than making it MORE LIKELY that it was town, and other than that was no better than a VT.

ML is gonna die on this hill that ML was justified. Just let them be. They're wrong but they're not interested in having an unbiased convo about it.

That said ML didnt lynch ETL by themselves.

[Tchill13]

Bro, if you think I can mass post like this as Scum, you are out of your head.

nah, I think its weak when players start saying im too bad as scum to be scum. Im looking at the content you provide. Idc what your opinion of yourself is.

[Tchill13]

Why is no one at L-1 yet?

Everyone on the ETL wagon is conftown.

is this true?

[Tchill13]

its just been so long since i played lol. IF its a meme i'll disregard.

Im still not liking hoctac, Quick, mastina.

Auro seems ok

[Tchill13]

Do you even look for psychological tells?

i dont even know what this means.

apparently what i use is nai but please tell me how to read you which will also give me a TR of you, conveniently.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: mastina

dave is killing it as far as mind melding with me goes.

Vecna
dave
Mislynch

are my strongest TR's by a mile.

ETL would be put in there with the exception that i've seen easy aggro players fake this type of thing as scum b4. I believe shes town but not on the lvl of the other 3.

dave has pretty much step by step been on the same lvl as me.

Hoctac opening with a tmi case on me after already wasting time/trolling d1.

[Tchill13]

Honestly, I’m null, but I saw the replace out.

VOTE: ETL

Move on from this day phase. I can’t catch up Day 1. 106 pages. I’ve read like 1.

not a fan of this either

Quick, Mastina, Hoctac, FL is my scum list atm.

[Tchill13]

Do you scumread Ari, TChill? Did your stance on Ari change through late D1? Describe the progression.

I'll have to iso ari tbh i havent spent much time on them.

[Tchill13]

other than tmi whats your case on me hoctac?

TMI is LAZY and you pushed it EARLY after nero had mentioned it late d1.

if its gonna pick up traction itll be when you pushed it.

either im gonna be a relatively quick lynch or mostly TR'd.

[Tchill13]

but i mean when i flip town Nero and mastina will have to bow down to the "personality tells" and their almight AI powers lolol

[Tchill13]

dave has pretty much step by step been on the same lvl as me.

If you mean we have similar reads, I think you should be careful about agreement bias.
It should be pretty obvious I'm town anyway but the reason here isn't the best.

its good enogh for me early game. I appreciate the sentiment in the warning though.

[Tchill13]

The way you talked about her with such certainty she was town alarms me, that's the case. Although, it might be your overconfidence in your own ability that gives you that kind of tone.

plus the mathematical odds were overwhelmingly in my favor.

im most confident in that type of read though so you maybe correct.

is it overconfidence if ive been correct 100 percent of the time so far? im joking lol. I just hear the same nai argument every time.

[Tchill13]

like I pointed out it was the lack of scum motivation with ETL that made her town. VOTE: mastina

[Tchill13]

dave has pretty much step by step been on the same lvl as me.

If you mean we have similar reads, I think you should be careful about agreement bias.
It should be pretty obvious I'm town anyway but the reason here isn't the best.

I will say that I find this to be scummy more times than not.

Going out of your way to tell someone that TR's you theyre wrong in how theyre going about it gives the appearance you dont care so much if youre TR'd.

Which is good for scum.

I havent 100 percent decided how I feel about this post yet.

[Tchill13]

Read his posts with a Tyrion voice, it's a lot more fun

lul you're right

If I thought I could do it well I'd RP as tyrion lol. Dude is awesome.

[Tchill13]

Tchill's a bit of a weaker read as well, but I admit that is partially due to a post that he made that does sound like it was meant for the scum PT because I can't see the context for what it could've been in response to in this thread.

which post? this is laughably weak.

[Tchill13]

I'm pretty sure Tchill was gloating at ETL flipping town rather than scum, give he'd been calling it for the entire day phase. How is that a scumslip?

Oh that would be a plausible explanation.

But, the logic I was going off of, was that Tchill in that post was quoting the mod, and seemingly speaking to someone--like you would in a mafia PT. Speaking to someone, but with no tie to his other posted content. Nothing he said before, or after, that post, was tied to what he said in 2795. He didn't bring it up after the fact, either; it looked like a post he was hoping people would ignore, not notice, etc., because it looked like he was avoiding drawing attention to it; it looked like he made an isolated post that was meant for somewhere else, because of the out-of-place nature of it; with nothing previous leading into it, and nothing after it relating to it, it stuck out.

Which is where I was coming from on that.

oh i didnt gloat correctly



come on mastina.

[Tchill13]

tchil's hard town read of ETL doesn't make a ton of sense to me. I've played with tchill a ton and it feels like ETL ateing is something that he normally questions.

dude. just tr me. I've already explained that you cant fathom the lvl of play im on atm. Its a new existence. A new being.

[Tchill13]

And Tchill is Scum based on meta as well. Will link the game I am thinking of where I literally screamed that Tchill was Scum and then FL screamed at me back for, get this, not believing his claim.

GLHF.

i mean there was one game where I literally only wanted to fake out FL knowing he'd control the game if I could just get him on my side.

That said, if you want to read me with meta prepared to be annoyed. Im constantly trying to get better which involves changing things.

[Tchill13]

if its the miller fake claim thats one of my fav moments.

but please dont use meta. meta is shit. almost always. Im not spewing my tangent here.

[Tchill13]

y is tchill town?

Tchill isn’t avoiding the game like I think he would as scum.

What are your reads right now?

WHAT?

explain this. because thats a hell of a dig.

[Tchill13]

this seems like way more effort then Dave has ever put into a game.

It's a sad situation when more than half the game is actively refusing to be useful.

oh right

VOTE: davesaz

yeah nero's town. he'd be playing a better town game if he were scum.

[Tchill13]

Also I'm an easy as fuck lynch for scum to push here so please consider that. It is unlikely it started via scum because pushing an inactive slot can be dangerous at times, but def likely we have scum on it.

Everyone who votes ETL will get their very own personal fruit from me during the night.

VOTE: ETL

Gimme my fruit!!!

UNVOTE:

Srsly tho this is town via ISO and I don't get why they are being voted...

VOTE: Miss Lynch

This slot has really rubbed me the wrong way in everything I've read. Imma Iso dive later but I'm not a fan atm

I think ari is town. Would have been easy af to stay on the ETL wagon there.

hopped off. pushed a viable target imo.

Ari is probably town.

[Tchill13]

I mean. As it so happens--Ari not playing is his scum meta and his lackluster content this game strongly indicates that he is probably scum here, so.

if u felt this why do you ever change your vote to ETL?

Because she's scum

Also I should address the actual content here.

My scumgame used to be permeated by a lack of actual play and whatnot. That has become my standard as either alignment, and mastina knows this.

I dislike greatly that she would pretend this is not the case!

Aristophanes, why not vote Flavor Leaf?

I haven't read much from that slot. However, he didn't D1 solve and seemed kind of avoidy in that part of the game so why not XD
VOTE: Flavour Leaf

VOTE: Aristophanes
I want to pressure this and see how it behaves.

I mean, claiming it is a pressure vote always makes me chuckle inside, if that helps you at all

I like both of these posts.

@auro. Why do you believe ari is scum? im about to try and find out but im seeing town here.

[Tchill13]

{Auro, Alchemist, Aristophanes, 5G, Creature, Hoctac, Jake, gobbledygook}

Ive only seen enough from auro, ari, creature, hoctac to feel good about a stance from this group.

creature and hoctac can be lynched imo.

[Tchill13]

creature, hoctac, quick, mastina, FL can all be lynched atm.

I had such a strong TR on vecna im not even gonna look at ETL's content. Apparently hes known for trolling/throwing/being stupid? theres enough of that in here.

[Tchill13]

TSE not ETL

[Tchill13]

in fact, Tchill I just called your #1 scum read scum. How exactly am I playing poorly if you think I'm correct on Mastina? Isn't that like talking out of both sides of your mouth?

you can read ebery player correctly and still play poorly as town

[Tchill13]

in fact, Tchill I just called your #1 scum read scum. How exactly am I playing poorly if you think I'm correct on Mastina? Isn't that like talking out of both sides of your mouth?

you can read ebery player correctly and still play poorly as town

im just aggravating you nero. I do think your town and it is because im not a fan of how you're playing but id rather not argue.

[Tchill13]

@auro. Why do you believe ari is scum? im about to try and find out but im seeing town here.

He beetlejuiced in D1, and his stances seem a bit... weak, a lot of buddying. The relative lack of content is not AI given my experience with him. This is not a confident read.

I was interested in your progression on Ari late D1 when you said you have to re-read: so does that mean you had no opinions of him D1?

its a slot I largely ignored.

[Tchill13]

you can read ebery player correctly and still play poorly as town

then how am I playing poorly?

i dont think youre pushing anything with depth and everything youre doing is very surface lvl imo. You havent done anything noteworthy imo.

I dont understand your stance on dave at all.

[Tchill13]

Iirc you don’t post much when you’re scum.

I dont feel like this is accurate but I have done it one game just to see how it is

I only remember the one game though.

[Tchill13]

i dont think youre pushing anything with depth and everything youre doing is very surface lvl imo.

and yet u r town reading me?

Still feel like both of us scum reading Mastina and you saying I'm playing poorly is talking out of both sides of your mouth. If Mastina is scum and I'm pushing 33% of the original scum team when the majority of town is NOT pushing Mastina then I think I'm doing pretty well. Like, I don't give you shits about you being kinda insulty towards me but your logic is just kinda messed up and I

kinda

get the feeling that you know I am playing poorly b/c Mastina isn't scum.

but then again I got in a huge fight with Robbana (or w/e) when we were both scum reading the same person but he was calling my reasoning bad so eh...I guess you aren't that much better than him anyways.

its cool man. no fight will happen here.

just wasnt impressed with your d1. not been impressed with your d2.

yes im capable of TR'ing ppl in spite of certain things.

ppl are not robots. X plus Y doesn't equal scum or town every time for every player.

if i knew mastina wasnt scum because i was scum I would push the only other person to start the wagon with THEIR intentions under THEIR name instead of being slightly negative about their play.

We've never agreed on some principles which is fine.

in a theoretical world where you have perfect reads theres still other things you have to do to play a good town game. Thats a separate discussion though. It's very telling that you believe read accuracy is all that matters to play good town. I never realized that was a perspective to begin with.

[Tchill13]

we should lynch quick please

whats your argument against the defense he's been too loudly wishy washy to be scum?

[Tchill13]

we should lynch quick please

whats your argument against the defense he's been too loudly wishy washy to be scum?

that he's going to exhaust us all so its beneficial to lynch him before that happens regardless of his alignment

pretty weak. you just admitted you dont care what he flips.

[Tchill13]

And Tchill is Scum based on meta as well. Will link the game I am thinking of where I literally screamed that Tchill was Scum and then FL screamed at me back for, get this, not believing his claim.

GLHF.

Was this the game that I wanted to PL you as conf town

Yup.

[Tchill13]

20 it is

VOTE: Tchill13

why?

[Tchill13]

FL whats your read on mastina?

im not impressed with your list. I could vote hoctac though.

[Tchill13]

like I pointed out it was the lack of scum motivation with ETL that made her town. VOTE: mastina

Still up for this, Tchill?

ofc

VOTE: mastina

[Tchill13]

This is going to need some explaining and not the NAI kind...

correct kind...

fixed it for you

[Tchill13]

killer depression makes every day a struggle since every day I am having a hard time

GL with this btw. Seriously.

[Tchill13]

meta is simply a license to justify actions whether good or bad.

I hate meta. And thats exactly what mastina is trying to do here. Justify her play so far.

[Tchill13]

It really is just a simple balance of probability; what am I most likely to do as town versus what I am most likely to do as scum.

you know I TRIED to explain this same concept regarding ETL. You trying to use that same logic here to get others to tr you based on meta is what i was trying to do with etl based on percieved personality with ETL.

You were having none of that.

[Tchill13]

This is going to need some explaining and not the NAI kind...

its because of how she handled the ETL situation.

Mastina had more experience with ETL and I pretty much guessed off ETLs personality she was town while mastina hammered home she was scum.

Im also aware mastina is a really good player and I'd expect her to read ETL correctly there.

[Tchill13]

Nero, are you related to Eddie Came in any way?

Eh, they have

vaguely

similar styles of play, but are very much distinctly different players.

Also, might be a meme game but first instinct:
VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies.

Not gonna even pretend I'd have any gauge of ETL's meta years-later.

Even if I did have perfect memory of how she played (and I most decidedly do not), the years of absence probably did change said meta anyway. But like.

Instant vibe from her opening?

Even in a meme game (or, you could say,

especially

in a meme game), probably just scum.

Mastina: what is you scum read on EtL based on?

Everything.

no.

This instantly pegged me as being far, far too serious especially for a meme game.

However, I would like to know how we gain immunity, because nothing in my role PM explained that bit. I didn't know if I should direct the question publicly to the mod in the thread or not, so I asked via PM. <<<

@mod: I hope this is ok to post?

The rules on this site have changed so much since I last played regularly, I have no idea whats kosher anymore.

Not only did this continue the trend of being too serious, it was also, to use a buzzword, LAMIST; ETL was putting in effort to look like she was being town, without doing anything that was actually town. Furthermore, the asking of the question looks entirely fake, or if there were truth to it, scum asking about the town's role PMs due to not having all the information they think they need.

32 has her accuse Miss Lynch of trying awfully hard when her own iso is by far the most guilty of that sin. The fight with Miss Lynch in general felt like a forced fight to get early cheap towncred, too, as people are likely to write off a fight of that nature as TvT. It's a common scum tactic for people of her generation; you deliberately enter into a fight with a town player early who is suspicious of you. That way, their suspicions look less likely to be correct, and people are more inclined to think that both participants are wrongly-tunneling town. It gives a way to stay out of the spotlight later on, because people have written you off as wrong-town, rather than scum.

I know ETL AtEs as both alignments and her AtE this game didn't feel town at all

; it felt particularly 'fake', for lack of a better word--maybe overblown would be better? In that I have little doubts ETL felt emotions, but her posting here felt like it was overplaying them, for lack of better terminology. Forcing the feelings, I guess you could say.

Everything about her content this game has felt incredibly calculated and precise, with an odd level of calmness. She radiates an aura of cool, collected, precise posting, one of artificial tone.

Better question isn't why am I scumreading ETL; it's why are you townreading her? That's literally why I initially placed you so low initially; your early defense of her felt off. (I later reconsidered and thought it more likely you're town wrongly defending scum.)

we will start with this contradiction to begin with.

[Tchill13]

Does mastina have BoP?

BoP?

[Tchill13]

I think ETL is playing a good scumgame as shown by the players townreading her. If ETL is town, then this is not her finest moment tho. The only good a town-ETL would've done this game is having those aforementioned townreads on her. Because like I've said--ETL's content this game has looked town without actually doing anything town.

If she is scum, this is good play; if she is town, then there's no real good play to be seen in that approach.

So, really, depends on your alignment here.

If you're scum, your play here is excellent as you're doing exactly what you should be doing as scum especially in a game of this nature

. If you're town, your play is objectively not good with the one good spot being the ability to have garnered some townreads on your slot, the same thing which is better for scum here than town.

what an egotistical statement, mastina is so good she'll catch you as scum d1 even if you're playing the perfect scum game. This seems like confbias or you were setting up the rest of the game to believe ETL was actually playing a good scum game (she wasnt, she got lynched d1)

idk how you SR someone for being town read and having content that looks towny.

now keep in mind i already believe mastina is too good for this behavior AND I also know she's had history with ETL.

this is why I think mastina is scum.

[Tchill13]

Does mastina have BoP?

BoP?

Burden of proficiency. And no, she doesn't. No one does D1.

cool story bro. play how you like.

[Tchill13]

Which is why I say--if you're town, that's a total failure on your part, where you have every power in the world to have pushed more and done more, but are choosing to blame everyone else, choosing to say it's the fault of the rest of the town rather than your own doing.

But if you're scum, there's no failure at all, because that play is precisely the optimal scum play to make, especially in a game of this nature.

You're doing things that are optimal for scum but are, for a town player, an objective failure of an approach.

The respect I have in your capabilities as a player, the respect I have in your competency, demands that in an assessment of your play, balance of probability, that the play that is self-explanatory as scum but which makes no sense as town, is just you as scum.

constantly setting up the fact mastina is not to be blamed if ETL flips town here, because it is ETL's fault she's played so poorly as town. But ETL is caught if she's playing "the perfect scum game"

A LITERAL lose/lose situation for ETL here. I see scum setup this situation of "im not to be blamed because theyre obv terrible town" more times than I see town do it.

Ego town usually does not go to this extent to lay out WHY the play is so bad as town.

usually ego town just tunnels with poor reasoning. The depth of reason preflip why someone is bad town almost always comes from scum in my experience.

[Tchill13]

I think infected people can infect other people by doing night actions but mafia don’t inherently infect people with their actions.

I'm somewhat skeptical of this.

Omg what if almost everyone has a night action but we have to STAY HOME to prevent it spreading too fast???

but town gotta have compulsive roles to mimic essential workers.

Or be healthcare workers whose jobs are to try and prevent the disease but which require them to be in conditions hazardous given the disease. [/quote]

why are you entertaining setup spec from someone you KNOW is scum?

[Tchill13]

This is a Bull Shit reason to SR someone, seriously.

bull shit reason for calling ETL town but wooptie do i was right. So either hop on my luck wagon or get out the way. Because i already know you believe i have no idea what im talking about. Ofc youre an alt that has played with me before (or youve just played with me b4 and i cant remember). Either way youre starting to get annoying. You dont care to even try and see why this perspective makes sense to me. You only care to belittle.

[Tchill13]

You are asserting ETL hasn't actually done anything town. This can easily be disproven by examples of things she is doing that are obviously town.

And what would those things be? Things which didn't just look town but were

actually

town?

If your case is something different than that, then please enlighten us.

My case is more or less that what ETL has done is incredibly fake across the board; the only things not faked are things that are obviously nai, e.g. her AtE, her mechanics posting. Her posts are "easy" to make, for lack of a better word.

ETL has been too loud today.

Loudness is not a towntell least of all from ETL. Especially not frustration, especially not toxicity, especially not for AtE.

you cant convince me she's throwing as scum to set 2, 3 ppl up thats hard defending her?

What's 'throwing' about her play? Nothing in her play this game is throwing if she's scum. The self-vote when nowhere close to a lynch is a classic scum move from the era ETL was a player in; she is very well-versed in the theory of self-voting for the towncred.

it is slightly irritating to think you actually believe the game is this easy. I almost dont believe you actually think that.

Oh, the game being easy wouldn't be 2/3 of the lurkers scum; the game being easy would be all three of the lurkers scum! I happen to think the game's harder due to ETL being scum.

Still, tho. At this point, I'll vote whichever of {ETL, Creature, Aristophanes} has the most votes. Right now that is ETL. That said:

This game is really hard to track tbh.

It is posts like this which

would

make me think that, yes, the game is that easy.

none of this looks like mastina believes ETL is playing a perfect scum game. Everything she's accusing ETL of is something anyone can do or achieve as scum.

[Tchill13]

No, I just think you have pretty good Scum equity.

why is that? Other than me "making no sense" why do I have that?

[Tchill13]

There's a weight between the possible town motive for an action, and a possible scum motive for the action. The town motive for the action is...well, honestly, it's hard to tell because there isn't much of one. The scum motive for the action is to shut down the suspicion on her slot, play wounded gazelle to get sympathizers to help defend her and divide the town and break unity, get people who're suckers for AtE to townread her.

mastinas case on etl essentially boils down to:

"ETL isnt good enough to trick me like she has yall. She's played a perfect scum game (or a terrible town game, if so not my fault LULz) But I, Mastina, can't be fooled. I have caught her."

[Tchill13]

So, given that:
VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies.
I promised I'd vote whichever of Ari/ETL/Creature had most votes and right now that's ETL. (If you don't want her to be in hammer range, then the impetus to unvote is on you because I refuse to not vote her.)

And as promised, will be replying to the content I read but didn't respond to earlier.

constantly giving excuses/reasons she isnt going to be held responsible for whatever ETL flips.

this is what decent scum do. They look to AVOID any responsibility they have in a flip.

[Tchill13]

quick why do I have scum equity.

[Tchill13]

Basically, 5G's content this game is never scum if ETL is scum due to the way 5G treated ETL's slot.

If ETL were to flip town, then 5G wouldn't instantly become confscum, but would drop to null-at-best territory where they are a very real candidate for being lurkerscum.

gonna see if she followed this up after mastina ISO.

[Tchill13]

quick why do I have scum equity.

Because your interactions with other people suck balls.

thank you for your answer.

[Tchill13]

So, uh.
Tchill.

I hate to be the type to suggest, "scum scumslipping a post in-thread that was meant for the scum PT", but uh.
Care to offer me an explanation for why this post wouldn't be that?

I just seen this

Basically because she was town and my reasoning for calling her town (that specific NAI reasoning) has almost always been correct when I used it. So I wanted to rub it in a bit because it IS frustrating being shut down all the time when ik im working with something that does provide consistency for me. That said I also understand I'll probably never be able to get ppl to open up to the idea. So its ok. just annoying, because my stance is thrown out the window the minute I begin explaining it.

[Tchill13]

5G has done nothing town this game given ETL wasn't scum. 5G's only push, and a very very very weak one at that, was on the slot; 5G hammered ETL unexpectedly and fairly randomly. The overall just utter lack of content, cruising by, earns them that spot.

she did follow up, which is a good sign. That said im still thinking she's scum.

[Tchill13]

Case pl0x, unless I missed it - it's time for a SERIOUS discussion!

there you go buddy.

[Tchill13]

If you have time, I would invite you to take her up on her word and actually skim a few of her recent scumgames, and give me an evaluation on how they compare. If you find this close to her towngames and farther from her scumgames, that implies she's suddenly changing her scum meta this game - and that would be a little unlikely, yeah? The farther back you go, the stronger this argument gets. This isn't a matter of capabilities, or whether she *could*, instead whether she *would*.

I pretty much refuse to use meta unless is natural from my games played with someone where I can go off memory.

[Tchill13]

Why does the source matter? On a side note, I engage fully with people I scumread also

in setup spec specifically theres no point to engage scum imo.

[Tchill13]

UNVOTE:

shes not getting lynched today. Wall posts= town right?

VOTE: suadade

[Tchill13]

The actual content of her posts is Town. She’s laying out every single read in a way that anyone can see the progression and how they’ve developed. I also doubt scum goes this hard on a self meta argument.

scum cant do that? Just because she has more time and effort she's town right? cool.

[Tchill13]

The actual content of her posts is Town. She’s laying out every single read in a way that anyone can see the progression and how they’ve developed. I also doubt scum goes this hard on a self meta argument.

scum cant do that? Just because she has more time and effort she's town right? cool.

I mean... yeah lol. You sound unhappy about this development, though. Are you unhappy because of the principle of the reads on Mastina or is it something else?

its a bit annoying that you can just effort your way to town with multiple long posts.

I understand the progressions make sense but if everyone was town for that scum wins would be pretty damn easy.

[Tchill13]

quick is actually prob town I just dont care for the slot or what theyre doing.

5g can go.

nahdia/elements id have to iso.

[Tchill13]

What scum agenda do you or anyone scumreading her see in her posts?

We are supposed to be reading her posts?

But really, mastina is a masterful scum player! As such, one may almost never view her agenda while it is in progress.

do you think mastina is scum?