Happy Face Mafia (Game Over)

[VFP]

I didn't see that the game started.
VOTE: No Fade

[VFP]

i don't the hydra lurking is.

It probably is NAI 2 pages in.

[VFP]

hop aboard if y'all want rvs to end so bad

You're not really filling me with confidence to follow you.
It's one thing to lack care with participating in RVS, but when you force it into a direction that you are going for, it's still just RVS. Just wrapped with a ribbon.

[VFP]

thanks professor, take your time and play when you feel like it

I guess I need to try and act edgy to be considered as 'playing in this game.

[VFP]

it's being condescending while actively getting in the way of me trying to do things that is getting you flak from me

Thats productive.
You consider pushing a PL mid way page 2 for activity as 'trying to do things'.
So go over again why I should vote with you? I'm open to voting.

[VFP]

do you think i'm scum shoving a lurker? food for thought

I'm unsure on your motive yet.
But I don't think you believe in your push. Even more so where you expect people to Blindley follow you.

Either town trying to actually get out of RVS or scum trying to look active without doing anything.

If I thought you were scum I'd have voted you by now.

[VFP]

Yes, I did see them.
My post is still the same though.

Should I town read you for those posts?

[VFP]

Why are you voting for no elim VFP?

Seemed like a fun thing to do.

[VFP]

Wouldn't it be more fun to vote someone?

Probably. Who do you suggest?

[VFP]

VOTE: samantha97
I'm convinced.

[VFP]

So "Pooky", why do you think I'm the scum between Sam and me?

u sound fake.

Raya seems pretty genuine to me.

[VFP]

It's generally bad manners to out someone's alt, so.

This entire back and fourth about an alt is just weird.
Doesn't look good for the bears imo who seem to be alt fishing.

[VFP]

mostly its because I think they have an "advantage" over me
Like it feels like I'm in the dark cuz they know me but I don't know them
which if u don't make it terribly obvious ur an alt, I'm not gonna go background check you so I won't pay too much attention
but when u rub it in that ur an alt, its annoying to me
but with you, it's different. cuz I know who you are
and that still annoys me lol
I feel like the only alts that are acceptable are stealth alts and open alts.
the ones that are in between piss me off for no literal reason.

Okay I guess the entire thing is just NAI for now but just a waste of pages.

[VFP]

Genuine question: is it scummy that that's the route I'm taking to get VFP as not-town?

I don't really get why it's a "bad" take.

Personally, I think its a good take.

[VFP]

I don't agree with raya that you have to be genuine with who you think is mafia though, since it's productive to not be a lot of times

You don't have to be genuine about scum reads when you're scum.

[VFP]

Slow game.
Was there a message to say the game started since there are players who still haven't posted?

[VFP]

Page 22 is my prediction.

[VFP]

Don’t look good in what way exactly? I don’t agree with alt fishing but you shading us for that is kind’ve gross dude.

Originally I thought it was just alt fishing to look busy while doing noting of worth.
Or maybe worse, a kind of intimidation tactic but the explanation summed it up for me and I changed my mind.
I'm not sure this would fall under 'gross dude', but go for it.

[VFP]

vfr is a good vote

Then place a vote.
You shouldn't be waiting for an invitation here.

[VFP]

So who do you think is scum? I thnk Dunn/unwnd interactions were strange. What do you think @Bamboozled?

I like Bamboozled so far. More town than majority of what I've seen.
I don't have hard scum pushes yet but I'm sure I will. Now who do I think has more chance flip scum right now?

Samantha
jjh

And Dunn / unwnd means nothing to me as I don't know inside jokes and I'm not too great at understanding sarcasm. That said, it didn't look serious.

[VFP]

I guess we just need a few more votes on Titus now.

[VFP]

My boozle requires assistance, VFP.

Because you're focus is going where I'm thinking.
Your questions aren't questions to look busy but actually want the answers.
164 is a decent take, even if some errors.

[VFP]

This game is too slow for me.
I'm gonig to coast until I see something ilike.

In the mean time feel free to convince me why I should vote with you (anyone).

[VFP]

Yeah, I'm not voting Dunn.

[VFP]

@VFP, why do so many of your posts read kind’ve hedgey? Like you seem to not really want to take a stand on anything?

Maybe I should vote you then? Change my mind.

Also, are we even reading the same game? In what world is this game “too slow”?

I'm not sure what you want to hear here. Playstyle?
If you wanted to vote me, then vote me, don't try to be creative. I also shall not plead why I'm town to change your mind.

This game is slow. I don't care if people think otherwise, I've been in micros with more going on.

[VFP]

Bear, mafia doesh't have daytalk, because daytalk is not normal, unless stated otherwise. I didn't found any "Mafia can daytalk".

I though day talk was standard in normals.
Either way there's ways around it that meet normals.

[VFP]

Ew

[VFP]

Took teeth pulling by asking a question.
Ew, bad post.

[VFP]

I'm not one to worry and give in because you're voting me and its not going to intimidate me into thinking you're town or vote where you think I should.
I'm also not going to join a wagon regardless with names on that I don't have town just because I was told to or get voted.

Ew

[VFP]

and yeah, if you only give any anything of substance when directly asked, you're being completely worthless as a player and should be policied even without that content being awkward as hell

Oh no, I'm a policy lim not a scum lim for you.
How town minded of you.

Let's get this straight though, I'm being totally worthless as a player because I won't vote Dunn?
Or because I answered a question and you didnt like the answer on another player?

[VFP]

literally completely unable to put his money where his mouth is, on me, on the dunn wagon, on enchant, on anything

What money where my mouth is?
I said I'm not.joining a wagon because people I do not town read say I should. Not to mention the person I am voting for.

This confuses me to why you are not asking why Samantha is scum instead if why I'm not voting Dunn when no one is producing a case for this.

It's because what you are posting us just fake and forced.

[VFP]

And the fact you are saying that I'm useless and do nothing while there are many more players way ahead of me with that shows even more that this is fake and forced.
You can cry and narrate as you like, but it's you're job to convince me why I should vote Dunn.

[VFP]

projection/deflection city lmfao, feel free to explain why sam is mafia at any point if that's a real read you have

i'm done here, everyone else can chip in

Oh feel free to, did you forget I was voting there or just not care because it doesn't suit up to your narrative here?
Let's not be done. You call me to discuss and the second I am you want to dip out?

Why should I vote Dunn? Tell me clearly.

[VFP]

I know but you are interested in me voting Dunn, so I want to know why.

[VFP]

my vote is not moving until you explain what is wrong with the dunnstral wagon or provide a substantial scumread on a player

Come on, there are other wagons or voting that you could ask about, but Dunn is the particular one you want to know.
Why should I be considering Dunn as scum here?

Maybe Dunn is scum with you and you're trying to shift the focus from Dunn to me?

[VFP]

you think it's a bad wagon

Wtf? When did I say its a bad wagon?

[VFP]

And don't go with 'assumed' or 'implied' bullshit.

[VFP]

Willow just actively dodging anything I ask.

[VFP]

Considering you were so invested in me to do something, why are you basically refusing to discuss and answer anything I ask?

[VFP]

I'm here to discuss Willow. What exact read do you want from me right now?
Also answer what I've already asked.

Why is the Dunn wagon the focus for you from my ISO. This was an obvious big part of why I'm scum to you because you are not removing your vote until I explain it.
Why did you say I think its a bad wagon?

And why are you not questioning players like jjh or wheme for something you are claiming to not be okay with?

You even go as far to say that jjh isn't scummy for posting that there's content then ignoring the game.
Beforehand Wheme says that Dunn wagon isn't good or whatever he said and votes without reason. You show no intention at all to follow up with this or find out the intent. Why? Are you satisfied with Wheme having a reason regardless is scummy or not?

I'm sure your answers will help me understand but this just seems you're not really paying attention to the game and going for what seems to be an easy push to the naked eye.

[VFP]

Did you ask something to me directly?

That was @Willow. Phone posting right now.

[VFP]

the second quote makes it clear that you went back and found exactly why i believed you thought it was a bad wagon. rather than explaining, correcting, clarifying, etc. you immediately moved to shut down the explanation preemptively while still acting like you didn't know the answer

throughout this entire conversation you have been hellbent on flopping and playing the wounded townie, standing strong in the face of persecution, when in reality you've stood for nothing all game. you acted like i should have asked you about sam instead, and when i said to feel free to explain, because all i've wanted is for you to give the thoughts you supposedly have and gave you multiple vehicles to help get you to do so...you promptly still did not explain your sam read.

you supposedly think i am fake, forced, painting this false narrative around you maliciously. this is much more than you have given on sam, but there's no vote to accompany it. you knew exactly why i asked about dunn specifically but topic switched to act like you didn't.

rather than claiming my stepback was inherently scum motivated, you're acting like you didn't see it or that me not breaking it was scum indicative.

this entire conversation reeks of bad faith, deflection and i would love to piledrive you.

Actually I went back to others because I remember seeing it just not by who. I was right and it shows you didn't properly read the game.
And now you still won't give me an answer, you are trying to cop out to give the reason. You said I think it was a bad wagon.
EXPLAIN. TO. ME. WHY. YOU. THOUGHT. I. SAID. THAT?
It's not a hard request, stop trying to just point at me but explain why you though this.

You keep coming back to "you're playing this way you're doing this" just answer my questions.

WHY. ARE. YOU. FOCUSED. ON. ME. NOT. VOTING. DUNN?
You were voting me until I explained not voting Dunn (or another read). This is what you said. For you to say that you have reason to want me to vote Dunn or for me to suspect Dunn.

You keep claiming I'm playing a narrative around this. Even if I am, you are not answering any of my questions you just keep going around in loops. I answered why I didn't vote Dunn twice and you even then tried to turn it into something else.

And to confirm I am pushing as scum here not on the fence.
And yet your only argument is no vote? I could have voted you even if I didn't think scum plenty before and played it as OMGUS or even potentially scum.

Sam originally was just me voting with Raya.
Since then Sam has posted a lot of empty posts and going for what seems easy pushes. Thers no town motive to Sam's play and I'm keeping my vote on Sam over you.

[VFP]

more whataboutism, nice

done with this slot, becoming more and more inaccessible

please forward all questions to @retti in the near future. thank you.

Okay, this just shows that when I'm questioning back to where you are either lying or not paying attention you run off.
You're just noise at this point where you can even answer a simple question.

[VFP]

not responding to that.

vote me if i'm scum.

"Doing something" btw.

[VFP]

More noise and 0 answers still from you.

[VFP]

i actually answered you directly in that lol

No you really didn't.
You said you can quote where you explained. You can't.
You don't even say you made the wrong assumption with my thoughts on the Dunn wagon, you say my point about you doing so.

You haven't answered anything,.you are just noise because your argument to get us to this point was fake and you didn't expect me to catch you out lying / not paying attention.

Saying you've done something doesnt mean that you have.

You followed up and asked about why I'm voting Samantha (after I had to tell you to do this). Do you not have any thoughts to that? You kept quiet about that part, considering you wanted me to give reads on players...
Am I wrong on Samanatha here?

[VFP]

No, you didn't answer there.
You were still trying to push the narrative that I said it was a bad wagon. The mindset you have of only removing your vote when I explain why I'm not voting Dunn does not add up to you not caring about about Dunn wagon.
You also are trying to play it off like i believe you mis understood when I have clearly said you you are not paying attention to the game or lying.
This is why I'm pushing for this point of you to give an answer, because I do not believe you have town intent here.

If you didn't want to continue the discussion then why did you add in the part about Samantha for me to reply to? You either wanted to know or you posted it as noise.
The way you have been the last bunch of posts make me think noise more than anything.

Now you want to end this between us so you can go back to trying to look busy.

You posted earlier and said that it was like pulling teeth for me to answer a question earlier for someone else. Yet look at how many times I have had to post and you respond with just noise.

You can try and bullshit here with something you meant or you don't want to play kick ball with me any more, but that's not going to work for me since you initiated all of this argument.

[VFP]

Almost in prime time for posting at least.

[VFP]

Noise.

[VFP]

On a side note as I go to bed, I want to take back my comment of this game being slow 3 pages ago, I was wrong.

[VFP]

Take it as you will but I'm skipping tonight all together on MS.
I'll give my thoughts on players then though when I can think with a clear head.

Any particular players anyone wants thoughts on then just say and I'll include them if not already.

[VFP]

I'm going to take tonight off from MS too but I'm off work for 2 weeks after tomorrow so

@Maria

V/LA until tomorrow evening / night

I want to post about suspicious or scum reads tonight then I'll continue other reads when I'm back.

Town: Retti / Flea
Town lean: Bamboozle / Titus / Wheme

Spoiler: Samantha: Scum

295 is where Samantha votes for Dunn. Before this Samantha hasn't done anything but post filler. It just reads as haveing to do something in the game and Dunn looked like an easier target. No reason or backing but stays vocal on voting Dunn with 299 / 301. Still no reason or backing. The first attempt at showing reason is 359 where they respond to me asking for a case. The case is because Dunn has only responded to a vote them them which happens after all previous posts requesting a Dunn vote. This shows that Samantha was voting where easy and used a reason that occured later to justify the vote. If the vote is due to inactivity, then why is this not being push, or targeted to others? 299 / 301 are just echoing noise to sound like they are doing something.
372 Samantha is reacting to being called out for pushing based on activity, where they are backing off and showing doubt. It's odd to have doubt here from the person you are pushing for votes on to only question your reason.
373 is Samantha basically joining what looks like a safe wagon. Calls me scum earlier but doesn't act on it. Unless Dunn added so much doubt with 371 to Samantha's 'confident' read, this is just playing to aim for easy lims.
460 is just staying on the fence while the debate is getting split on TvT and SvT. Considering I'm supposed to be scum for Samantha and they are voting me here, this doesn't seem like a geniune scum read with a comment like this.
570 Another safe vote, this time on Bell. Responds to Esooa and basically drops a naked vote just after 566 / 567 / 568 to go un noticed again.
661 The opinions on Bell replacing are split, Samantha looks to be doing another safe vote. PP has 7 posts at this point and if it was an issue with activity / lurking or anything of this agenda then there are other players as well which Samantha is just ignoring. Also, what use is there to just place a naked vote down on someone that you are trying to be active or gain something from? It's just looking busy.
56 was just wierd. I don't know what to make of this but it doesn't make sense that the "name a player" had anything to do with thir, or any affect.

Spoiler: Esooa suspicious / Scum lean

So Essoa coming in and posting comes accross as town. However, 487 is really strange considering I have 1 game with Esooa. If you didn't read the game, I was town and Esooa was scum. There's a bit of knowledge I want to add concering this game though from a live mindset.
I was the easy mis lim bait by later game, and in the game it felt early on that I wasn't overly being pushed as scum until the game went on and scum were being pushed. I ended up town reading Esooa due to a particular flip of scum which Esooa obviously didn't object to. I didn't want to go into a meta read from a previous game because I feel this game in particular has no backing, but since Esooa is using this to want to shield me makes me think they are just trying to use me as a later mis lim if a scum buddy is in trouble. The reason I think this and show doubt is because the game was odd with having 6 or 7 players not post day 1. I could understand if Esooa said that I'm probably town (as I did have a back and fourth with 2 players in that game) but there's no grounds to say that I do this as only town and that my scum game is differnet. But Esooa is wanting to protect me as town? There is no chance of being

THAT

sure that someone is town because 1 game they were argueing or being snarky. It suggests as I said, wanting to try and have me as a lim later or knowing that I'm town and trying to gain town cred for doing so. The back and fourth from Esooa and Retti where Esooa is trying to dodge the question, to just link the 1 game and say it's meta just looked like Esooa trying to avoid giving the reason, otherwise why wasn't this done before but instead implied it to look at games ehre rather than MU (Because why would anyone here randomly look at my games on MU?)
553 is more or less letting 561 just assume the games on MS and hope for Retti to back down there.
Also, in that 1 game me and Esooa did, they tried to write someone off as town due to meta early that looked to be an easy mis lim late game (This is who I focused on the last day).
The rest of Esooa I town read, but the above is just enough for me to favour scum over town (considering I ended up town reading Esooa last game too anyway).

Spoiler: jjh susupicious

219 shows no concern of the game, which could be because there's no pressure on them. 490 / 490 / 495 / 498 / 502 are posts just saying what people want to hear.
504 is jjh's first solid take for me, and is in favour of a town to scum post here. I like the Raya / Smantha scum leans as I don't favour either of these, the Retti being added just gives opportnity for a back lash.
The rest of the ISO seems like filler. I'm not so much as scum on this slot, but I don't favour them as scum over town if I had to pick.

Spoiler: Raya suspicious / Scum lean

113 This is the first post from Raya that strikes as odd and is response to 102. Raya posts about Samantha being geniuene 86 and then proceeds to play off a scum read in Samantha. This was a vote on the spot in response to my 84 which I didn't originally take seriously. Raya doesn't give anything off to suggest that this is a legit scum read, and even 333 shows that the reason for the vote is also something that town can do makes it seem less believable. So to question why they are the scum from the 2 in 113 is odd and seems to have other motive / worry around it.
332 follow up concerning the above just suggests that these can be scum together or that Raya is actually scum with Samantha town. It just seems to be a high point for Raya to focus on here.
Raya is just playing by the 1 post of Samantha to slide on by, not pushing this or trying to push anything else Samantha has done. Plausible SvS but I'd favour TvS here with Samantha being the scum.

I want to go over Willow again once back. Part of me just thinks it's egos clashing after a re read although I don't think I represented my concern well which without filling the game with more back and fourth like that I just want to explain my mindset with it and where I'm at with Willow.

[VFP]

I'm going.to read the Bell games and see from there.
With Titus, I've just finished a game with Titus scum and I don't think this is the same posting to what I've seen.

[VFP]

VOTE: Robert
Going to be E1 I think then.

[VFP]

So Willow and Bear are lock town.
T3 and Wheme are hard town.

Titus could just be scum here.
Raya and Samantha I still don't favour, but maybe Raya more at this stage.

[VFP]

And Retti locked town. Forget that one off.

[VFP]

Can you explain T3?

I feel like our reads are on the same wave length
T3 has a pretty unique play style. I liked how he handled his Robert vote and 764 is how I'd expect town T3 to act in a game. I'm not going into that last part more though.

[VFP]

I don’t know maybe?

My current trs are Rhetti, Willow, you, Adante. TLs on Flea, Wheme, Sam. Scum leans on Titus, Raya. I think everyone else is a null but the more Titus pushes Dunn, the more I lean town on him.

I meant with T3.
But I think ours are more or less on track.
Flea I don't know yet, and I havent placed them anywhere.
Samantha and Raya aren't going to be scum together for me so a red flip on one will just make me see the other as a green.

[VFP]

So by the logic of these 2 posts would it be reasonable to say that the team could be VFP/PP/Bell? PP was never voting VFP and instead enchant. When VFP wagon dismantled PP went to Bell who had too much traction to bother trying to save.

Wouldn't this suggest PP tried to save my wagon?
Of course it's plausible but it's a bit tin foil to say that me and PP are scum together because PP didn't vote me.
The more scummy part of your argument is when I vote for Bell I'd say.

[VFP]

VOTE: Titus

I think I'd favour a Raya lim over Titus because it looks like Raya is trying to get a feel before commiting to anything.
But for now I'll go Titus since there's a wagon.

I don't think this is scum theatre with Titus and Raya though.

[VFP]

VOTE: Raya

There seems to be interest in this wagon so let's see who actually puts their money down.
Titus posting last few pages don't feel defeatist or scummy pushes. Last 2 games I've played in with Titus (both as Titus scum) this is how Titus was. Even though this is only day 2, but I think a Titus lim isn't suited today.

Raya just accepting my post about me and PP as scum buddies seemed like a back off moment where they just don't want to push.
I also don't like that their focus has been on me or PP but still haven't voted yet. Plausible adding PP as a distancing but I honestly have nothing to go by on PP's alignment here.

[VFP]

it's dunnstral/flea/titus/penguin isn't it

Home sweet home.



OK in seriousness though, I'm curious what the cost of these mask abilities are. I know what mine does, but I don't know the cost that I pay...

Use it and find out.

[VFP]

I'm not sure I'm getting the Titus feel now for a lim.
Let's put some votes on Raya. Unless opinions have changed Raya votes had interest but no backing.

[VFP]

Why jjh, Dunn?

[VFP]

Outside of Andante and jjh do you have any reads?
I can't see your stance on anyone else.

[VFP]

We can hold off on eliminating Robert today and see how many people die + if anybody else has a role that suggest multiball

Can you go over the mind set on this?
This would need to show that you suspect Robert as town here as plausible.
What changes if 2 players die during the night like it did, or even 3?

Outside of this
I don't see why Scum Dunn just calls out Robert as using a fake role and then tries to prevent a lim on what seems pretty promising.
This would just keep Dunn on the high possibility as scum The next day, and I'm surprised that no one is using this as a reason over, well nothing.
I'm not going to fully rule out scum theatre between Dunn and Robert here but I just don't see Dunn flipping scum here.

The wagon itself isn't the strongest wagon either. It looks more like the survival wagon for some players (Raya and Titus) who both have suspicion on them.

Anyone is welcome to convince me why Dunn is scum though.

[VFP]

Well if it was multiball they essentially claimed cop. There was no evidence to suggest it wasn't multiball outside of maybe flavor.

It gives room for either a vig to claim or other multiball type rolls to claim, or for an anti-town player to die at night

That makes more sense that what I was thinking you were going for.

[VFP]

My vote is just being wasted at this point and I think Titus is more likely as scum than Andante.
I'll end up changing back to Titus unless anyone convinces me otherwise.

[VFP]

My vote is just being wasted at this point and I think Titus is more likely as scum than Andante.
I'll end up changing back to Titus unless anyone convinces me otherwise.

Why not dunn?

Because I don't think Dunn flips scum.
1376

What makes Dunn scum though?

[VFP]

VOTE: Titus

[VFP]

Can you no lim a gladiator power?

[VFP]

Okay thats an option then.

My last game with Titus scum, Titus did seem to be more distant with the game and just didn't give much in responses. Mainly the player that Titus was calling scum, she just never gave a real reason to. Here Titus is arguing scum and giving reasons even when gladiator is in effect.
I would expect Titus to take the lim here and just try not to give any information out at all as scum.

[VFP]

UNVOTE: Titus

I thought it didn't count the votes until Maria confirmed but no harm in being safe.

[VFP]

I'm a maskless VT.

Considering I doubt I'm ever the NK I don't mind saying this to just end doubt on the claim.

[VFP]

I'm a maskless VT.

Considering I doubt I'm ever the NK I don't mind saying this to just end doubt on the claim.

that didn't that make titus seem more town to you when she claimed it?

No. I didn't consider that being masked or maskless would be a tell and just assumed masked was just PR with a twist.

[VFP]

I fully support a no lim here.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85940

Read scum Titus here. There are only 37 posts to read so it's not a lot to go through.
Titus was calling Clidd as scum. Look at the change when Titus is set as a lim. Self hammer and defeatist. Even before this, Titus is giving no information up. The gladiator move was basically the hammer in this game originally, but Titus has shown a complete opposit response here.

[VFP]

VOTE: No fade

[VFP]

Really thought it would be us or Retti.

Retti is basically a VT right now. I can see why Retti wasn't killed.
Esooa either had good reads or scum thought PR. Otherwise I'm not sure why they kill there.

[VFP]

No, it didn't count as using it since no one was eliminated. I'm not really keen to hijack the day again since I think that led to a lot of apathy so I'd rather play things out as normal and only gladiate if there's something approaching a consensus pick. Being withdrawn from discussion was clearly the wrong approach so I'd like to take a more active role today. Things need to get rolling again as I'm feeling a general air of apathy (that is admittedly partly my fault) and I don't wish for the momentum we had going off day 1 to be lost.

I thought you were 2 shot?
Or are you saying the entire shot didn't count?

[VFP]

I think the 2 insta votes on me are bad

I preferred your other picture I think.

[VFP]

I don't see why T3 fakes a guilty here

cause he's likely a rolecop who knows I'm doc, sees votes already on me. claims he had me guilty long ago, yet never said anything? riiight

I was thinking this, but why not just kill you tonight?
Why lose a scum member to kill just a doc?

If anyone is claiming town to make the kill last night, I'll bite.
Other than that
VOTE: Andante

[VFP]

Read Andante's doctor claim in the last newbie game and then read it here.

Plus, Andante likes to claim sooner that later. So I believe T3 here.

[VFP]

Uh excuse me? I'm working on not insta claiming my role... thank you very much

As I said, if town killed Esooa I'll bite.
You already know my thoughts on a town lim for scum anyway!

[VFP]

mmk cause limming doc makes the most sense

In our last game, no. Because I knew it was true.
This game, T3 makes no sense to lie here.

I will also say, I do not think that T3 ever fakes a claim here as either alignment.
You flipping scum, we have 2 confirmed town.

To pros win here.

[VFP]

We should hold off voting until the duel.

UNVOTE: Andante
Okie

[VFP]

what are peoples reads on flea?

Lean town.

@T3 - Why only town lean here?
And why did you target Flea N1 over Andante or Titus, or even Samantha?

And what made you check Andante last night?

[VFP]

Let’s see.
Insane/Paranoid Cop, etc.
Framer
Redirector
Bus Driver

Probably some others stuff as well.
I mean we can vote the red checked Doctor claim, just don’t let Retti live to MYLO/LYLO that’s all I’m saying.

For this to count, scum have to suspect that Andante is the check or that T3 is a PR checking. Both which I don't seem scum wasting an abooth power on.
Also I don't think this was a bastard game so insane cop results without T3 knowing would be odd.

Scum is either Andante or T3 here.

Andante isn't acting like themselves after a claim, and I've recently finished 2 games where Andante claims with only 2 or 3 votes on her.
The latest game (since I saw someone ask) was the below.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86434

Andante claims Doc here and I push as not wanting to lim Andante (T3 also has a no lim stance). I feel like Andante may expect the same out come here from a doc claim even though here there's a guilty.
Andante also isn't an intentionally anti town player, so straight up refusing Titus any reads heavily suggests scum here.
After Andante claims Doc here, 3 players are still looking Andante but Andante is still giving out reads, and although a different situation, this game after claiming Doc playing it off as it

should

be the reason to not lim here rather than progress in any other way.

I still want T3 to answer why they never had Flea as town, but instead town lean. However I'm pretty confident in scum Andante here.

[VFP]

Is it possible that neither is lying and some other explanation?

It's possible.
Just not probable.

[VFP]

I think we should no elim again, just to be on the safe side

You mean if Retti's power goes through?
Not as standard, correct?

[VFP]

Exactly!

Well you obviously don't town read Andante from the claim alone.
So without the claim what makes Andanre a bad lim?

[VFP]

VOTE: Andante

I don't believe Andante here still. The reaction is completely off for town them.
We have no reason to believe that T3 is insane.

If there smallest chance that Andante and T3 both are town then it just suggests that scum are going to be Dunn, jjh, and drapion (or heavily in this). That's where fuckery roles would be at if anything.
In fairness, a scum flip Andante suggests scum here anyway.

[VFP]

Well, I did say jjh in my post.
Whemestar I just hard town read.

[VFP]

I'll wait until flip.

[VFP]

So, Drapion?

[VFP]

I'm sure you don't.

[VFP]

Well I was speaking to everyone else meaning "let's get Drapion!"

[VFP]

It’s the equivalent of saying: we should vote Drapion today yeah?

Yeah, that's the one!

[VFP]

Guess I'm dead then.

[VFP]

so we have 4 hardconfirmed town with 12 alive: me/flea/t3/dunnstral unless there's shenanigans

I'd replace you with Retti.
I don't doubt your claim yet but by no means should it hard confirm you as town.
(And maybe Dunn?) I'm guessing it's a mod confirm and not a message? Dunn to advise?

In addition the probably town list is
Samantha
Tutus
Bears
Willow

Even with me in the pool it should just be jjh, me, Raya, and Drapjon for last scum.
Interesting if T3 has anything. Maybe another confirmed for the list at least.

[VFP]

If jjh does flip scum I'd be happy to put Samantha in the lock town section.

Just a question Samantha, as I'm a little confused. Will it always give you a scum in the names? Or do you not know?
If it does I don't see the downside to keeping you in the game? If any of the PoE pool appear on the list just shoot them.
Or am I reading it wrong?

[VFP]

btw I found out I can't even use my mask until night 4, I feel scammed

I don’t understand this either?
Has the negative effect not happened yet?

[VFP]

I think if Dunn was lying he would have made the message yesterday rather than today.
So I'm happy with Dunn being town here.

[VFP]

btw I found out I can't even use my mask until night 4, I feel scammed

I still don't get this if you used it last night?

[VFP]

I think I'm okay with Samantha being the lim.
If there is a governor then we have to lim today.

I'm also not sure I trust it all.

[VFP]

Yeah im okay waiting.

[VFP]

Still no mask, still VT.

[VFP]

VOTE: jjh

[VFP]

jjh's reaction to T3 was obvious scum though.

[VFP]

So confirmed then

Samantha (at least not Mafia)
Retti
Dunn

Flea was here due to T3 but I think not confirmed now? Unless I'm wrong.

Town
Willow
Bear, I guess?
Still Flea from play alone I think

So a mis lim today makes it 6 players and 1 scum..
Another mis lim makes it 3 players and 1 scum.
(At worst)

Even if you lim Samantha, we only have 2 mis lims now so that works out to not need to.
If there's a deep wolf in the town list I just think it's Bears

Other than that I favour Drapion as scum and if wrong just hope the second kill is in me, Raya, or Bears.

@Samantha

Can your ability thing hit you or is it only other town?

[VFP]

I still think your mafia though and also why would scum ever kill you here?

I never said they would?

[VFP]

So VFP, if you successfully ML me who would you want to be yeeted next?

You.
Then hopefully Bears or Raya are killed if its still going and the other is the lim

[VFP]

VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

[VFP]

Imagine pushing Dunn as the lim after me here.

[VFP]

I'm 2 shot Gov mafia.
GG

[VFP]

I'm pretty sure it's just over.
Drapion started by soft defending Andante and ended up doing the hammer.
Didn't vote jjh.
And then added Dunn into the kill list because they gave up.

[VFP]

I'll wait until flip.

[VFP]

It's just Drapion.

[VFP]

I think we just stick to the PoE of me and Raya and we win.
The only play I saw possible as scum was Bear.

Basically everyone is confirmed as town here but me and Raya.
Willow can be added because scum don't need to know who has a mask or not, rather than who has a role or not.
Flea due to Retti's information
Retti due to role, picking 2/3 scum and general play.
Samantha is just proven. Even if SK, no way does Samantha kill in the PoE, as flipping a scum would mean we lim there.

VOTE: Raya

I'm not going to stop votes on me as I think either order wins.
If we ever go into a situation where both me and Raya are dead town in a final 3, then I suggest the order to lim as follows.

Retti
Willow
Flea
Samantha

[VFP]

@Flea

- did you get a confirmation someone targeted you?

@Samantha

- was this mod confirmed and advised caused by a mask?
Or could this have been a message sent to you? Depending on the wording mod done.

[VFP]

If there's 5 mafia we lose.
I say no lim and just trust Flea tomorrow.

We also find out if someone sent Samantha a message or really poisoned.

[VFP]

I still think a no lim then lim me tomorrow is a better chance here.
I'm not going to overly argue me as town here because there's many negative factors, even with positive ones.
I didn't push Bell, I gave reason to show that the Andante claim was false, I thought jjh as scum from early, I gave reason to Titus town.

But from all perspectives, I can be / am town. Lim on town me today is a loss 4/6 times. Leave it over night and there's a 1/4 chance that I'm the Samantha kill.
This also changes nothing from today and will look negatively on me tomorrow if I start pushing else where.

Flea should always be in a final 3 I believe? And its possible we have 5 tomorrow although doubtful. 1/2 chance of 4 players tomorrow with a no lim due to cross over or Samantha's ability being on Flea.
Flea and Willow should never be considered. If we manage to get both into tomorrow then scum fucked up, meaning Willow dies tonight regardless.

VOTE: No lim

Take your time but the only play is a no lim here.

[VFP]

I haven't.

[VFP]

Is this including dead players?

[VFP]

I thought you meant that you had information to someone targeting you.
Well no one alive could have visited you without lying. So I doubt they admit it now.

[VFP]

I have nothing to add other than what I said.

If 1 of me or Raya is alive lim there.
Both then whatever
If neither are alive in some strange world, its Retti and they want to lose...

I'm hoping RNG just kills me.

[VFP]

Well played Retti.

[VFP]

I'll hammer Retti if they are put to L1 otherwise mechanically and play tactically you should just stick to the plan. Me or Raya alive should always be the lim

Would you rather lose to scum me or scum Retti is the main question here?

If the answer isn't scum me, then this game is set.

[VFP]

I also suspect that scum just didn't kill.
There was no reason for Samantha to lie there as it loses us a lim so scum do not kill there, either know the cause or don't dis believe it.
And in the risk of me / Retti being the Samantha kill, Raya is never the scum kill otherwise its just set in stone.

4 players alive increases the scum chances to survive so both scum me or Retti benefit from no killing.

Willow doesn't benefit here.
Or Flea was the target and the above is just wrong.

[VFP]

I do not understand why, as town, you are not giving serious consideration to me being mafia. You are not even entertaining the idea and it feels performatively goofbally.

The game is over if you are town and get voted out. Why are you telling Flea to stick to the plan and vote you out?

Because its a lost game. I know when games that have a chance of winning at this stage, and this isn't one of them.
I'm not sure how I can tell someone to do something other than exactly what I would in their position.

The only way that today was going to be a win is if Raya was scum and I was shot from Samantha last night.

Mechanically you're never scum here. Scum do not have the need to find masks, but instead they want to find roles.
Masks have a down side so it's beneficial to scum for town to use masks early. This is why there's no need to locate them as scum.
You won't convince me otherwise here either.

No fade would be worthless here as well.

[VFP]

Well I'm town, if that helps?

[VFP]

similarly to how i will wait a few days until i care enough to grill retti on any/all concerns i find in a few days, i hope you feel a bit more inspired to play later as well

i don't think giving up on the game and saying "id lose here just vote me and end it" is fair to me/flea, or most of the dead town

I'm not sure what argument I ever go for to say Retti is scum though.
By paper scum is always me. If you want to know anything sure, ask away.

[VFP]

Like, yes, ok, scum rolecop flipped, but willow did not actually tell us anything we didn't already know when he claimed, so it's not like his role is confirmed in that regard. Not even considering it could be a fakeclaim seems fairly suspect? Like your mind is locked into just accepting that it's real b/c you know it is

The claim was still made early enough.to believe.
I don't care about the results, but the role itself.

The fact how Willow read my claim as town suggests the checks were real if in argument anyway.

[VFP]

I've already said my mind is set on it.

And as I said, what am I to do here?
Go with Retti is scum because of the duels?

And concerning Samantha, we don't even know of scum caused the poison. It could have just been from using a mask. So I'm not taking into account that it was caused by scum, at least directly.
Maybe it was Rettis mask that did it... there's no way of knowing so it's irrelevant information.

[VFP]

Well, I'm not scum of course.

Why am I town?
I didn't throw Bell under the bus. Can be seen as a negative that I joined late to the lim but for me not so much.
I didn't want Titus to be the lim day 2, but Bears was stopping that regardless so its hard to argue it.
I did give a meta reason to lim Andante and to why it was a lie claim. A doc claim could have been accepted.
jjh I had as slight focus early, and never town read them. Always had them in the pool of scum, which suggests I would have with Bell if town mates.
The argument of Retti not making the kills can also work with me as I'd only be a goon with the VT claim.
Yesterday, although I can't remember if someone said no lim first, I pushed it. This would have been stupid by town me to risk more PoE going.
If the argument is I can poison, that too makes no sense. Otherwise I poison Samantha alive longer to keep the PoE larger, even more so after the first PoE death.

Why am I scum in your PoV?
Because I'm the last in the PoE pool. If I'm scum, the top is worthless and I'm scrambling to push Retti.

If I was cleared and Raya was alive, I'd lim in Raya ovet Retti as my odds favour a win there.

[VFP]

Because I'm the last in the PoE pool.

[VFP]

It's a waste of time.

[VFP]

I mean, if you really want to cheese it, game setup probably shows a lot here.

There has only been 1 confirmed role that gains the same information.
Role cop. There was scum and town with role cop here.
There's 2 players claiming mask information here. That suggests that there's scum / town with this knowledge at the very least. Although I think 1 is just a lie.

The second part is we had a 1 shot ninja checker.
Now me and Retti are never ninja here or we make the kill with an obvious tracker. However, a scum mask may give this ability for a night+.
I don't have a mask and Retti does. So unless Maria just added a role that is pointless, it suggests Retti is scum.

Setup is this
Town
VT List cop
JOAT mod poster/ninja checker/role cop (1 shot)
VT IC
Tracker +Watcher
1 shot vig + 1 shot vig
Doc
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

Scum
Goon
Role cop
Even night roleblocker, killed odd night no roles flip

There is 1 mask in scum out of 3 players.
There are confirmed 5 in town including Flea

If I'm scum
Most likely Goon? Maybe JOAT ninja / strong man 1 shot? Although tracker watcher is a huge counter here.
Town add reflex inventor with Flea
Gov with information
Mask cop

I believe Retti gets information on lims, just lying what it is.

VOTE: Retti

[VFP]

Regardless if T3 was strongman, there's no record of a ninja.
But there's mod mention of a ninja.

The only mechanically way I'm scum here is if I have ninja as a role of some sort since I'm confirmed no mask.

[VFP]

Again, the poison could be from a town mask.
Ninja would be a scum role or scum mask.

The JOAT role is not in a typical place of a red herring.
The fact we had a tracker / watcher with mask use means that scum have very little power here unless I'm a strong scum JOAT
If you compare what can be found. Plus the fact 2 town receive mask information? Why?

Retti is obviously a gladiator. And the mask does something. Why not makes the actions ninja? The reason for it not to have been used is then fear of a negative to a slot highly town read.

[VFP]

I disagree, our 2 most powerful roles were masks.
The fact scum only hit a PR 1/4 times with the risk of a negative power is not strong.

[VFP]

2 Powers, not roles.

[VFP]

In fact, only the Vig or tracker would be good to take.
With Doc as runner up.

The strong part of scum is the rolecop and the alignment only flips.
Say if I was a poisoner, then I'm a JOAT with ninja. Me saving my poison shows reason to not be wasteful. This means I have the ninja role after Andante is the lim but I get jjh to kill?

[VFP]

Thanks Maria for modding.

Well played Retti, well deserved.
So what was the poison?

[VFP]

Thanks Maria for modding.

Well played Retti, well deserved.
So what was the poison?

Masks:
Dunnstral Mask: Turn IC Drawback: mafia gain 1 shot poison
Flea Mask: Roleblock anyone who visited you Drawback: Mafia gain a 1 shot vanillaize
T3 Mask: Turn into Tracker+Watcher: Drawback: Results would be sent to a random player with names blocked out
Romance Mask: Turn into a list cop Drawback: Post restricted
samantha97 Mask: Gain 1 more vig shot and a poe of 3 that has at least 1 mafia Drawback: Randomly shoot a townie every night after
Retti Mask: Gain an anon mod vote to use as you please Drawback: Turn hated
Robert Mask: Turn into an ability thief for the night Drawback: Must tell the truth when claiming+results

Ah okay, I quite like the masks with negative effects for both sides.
Could Samantha have shot themselves or any other town?

[VFP]

Yeah and I like that some VTs had a mask.
I didn't even realise it was a thing until the Titus situation.