FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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I’m at one and one so far.In post 26, Servant Alter Ego wrote:I've one townread already. Let's see if I can find another on page 2.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Subject: FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt (Game Over!)
Does this sound like anyone in this game so far?Cabd wrote: As mafia, I see two valid approaches. One is to try and elect one of your own and bank on the powerups, and playing 10-3 with uber-charged roles. That one is good if you think your mafia team is all of equal skill, or you have three powerful players and one weaker player that you feel can be successfully "obvtowned" enough for a masterization.
The other approach, and the one that I would have taken with a mafia PM this game, is to drive the master onto somebody from the town who is unlikely to properly use the newfound status. Take a player who is good at appearing town but is lurky, or lazy, or divisive. Argue HARD that you're worried about mafia getting the role so you'd rather the obvtown lurksack, over the charismatic person who could be really good mafia. In this game, I would have been trying to drive the master powers HARD onto Foreigner, Berserker, or Caster.
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I would like to be the master.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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You have some very awkward stances, and I would think if you were scum you would at least have some kind of idea of the past game from one of your buddies by now. At this point in the game, I’m leaning you are the type of person I’d butt heads with, causing my initial skepticisms.In post 96, Servant Caster wrote:
?In post 93, Servant Berserker wrote:but it doesn’t seem likely scum is this.. off.
How am I off?
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I disagree. Assassins overselling feels very inorganic, like a presidential election almost. And again, do not vote a master for solely role based reasons.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Typically people don’t like when someone opposes their game plan. I brought up information I deemed important to make these decisions, and stand by my choices to prefer someone to lead than someone for the role itself.In post 146, Servant Assassin wrote:I have yet to see anything that comes off as scummy, though beserker's appeal to cabd and the resultant thought to elect a charismatic town leader was off-putting.
Lancer is town. I respect them not wanting to lead, but they are town. 85 is self reflective on their own qualifications to lead, as well as actual need and optimization of them receiving the master. I also think that everyone, regardless of alignment wants to be the master, so the “Why is that?” is more about trying to get a read and feels like an unfair nitpick.
Rider should have engaged more, as should foreigner.
With regard to my read on egos, it might be a tad premature. I did find them saying a lot of what I was thinking, but I suppose arguing from a mechanical standpoint and not a scumhunting standpoint is much easier to fake.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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As I’ve mentioned, most of this is coming off the back of listening to what the creator of the game would have done. I also, frankly, agree. Having been in games where confirmed townisa potato, I’d much prefer someone who is willing and capable of getting us on the same page (such as assassin in the first game). Someone central to prevent us going off on the wrong track via tunneling and the like. It’s honestly strange you don’t see the merit in a town leader, I feel like most decisive wins from town typically have a central figure.
I find not wanting the role for the reasons Lancer listed town, there’s more interest in preserving a good gamestate than selfish desire for the master (I’m not calling anyone out here, because I too have the desire). Ive also liked their tone throughout the game.
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Agreed, as I’ve already said.-
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Caster. I’ve come around to the idea that we just have polar opposite approaches to the game, but I did not like their constant reinforcement to focus on abilities anyway. I think it’s a pitfall, but there’s clearly more than just them that believes it.In post 158, Servant Archer wrote:@Berserker - I was looking back over the game, and I am curious who were you referring to in post 50-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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I provide both day and night benefit. I play mostly PoE, so I’d upgrade correctly and provide a central voice who is good at working with a variety of peopleIn post 211, Servant Saber wrote:
Why do you want to be master? I haven't seen it, and it would help me read you.In post 197, Servant Berserker wrote:Foreigner, would you be interested in voting me to be master?
I think Caster, while misguided, genuinely believes that they found scum in me and archer. I liked their self doubt with regards to their stances, and I believe scum would not be as misinformed about how this whole setup works through virtue of having their team talk about it. I don’t think someone who is not willing to put in the work to optimize use is a smart choice to lead, and I also think they will take the obvious choice of promoting Assassin.In post 212, Servant Saber wrote:
I am uncertain on Caster and I disagree with their conclusions. Can you explain why they're town?In post 202, Servant Berserker wrote:I agree that caster seems town. Don’t want them as master though.
Just that caster seemed very uninformed in general, if I’m remembering correctly it was after some confusion about how the master role worked.In post 220, Servant Lancer wrote:
Berserker, were you going somewhere with this question?In post 81, Servant Berserker wrote:Did you read the flipped roles from the first game, caster?
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I have agreed with most of Egos posting.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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And deeper information comes with more data. We still are missing some slots.
When I am at a computer I intend to try and put some more work in. Won’t be for at least two hours. As is, my primary concern is building an initial block and holding them to standard as the game progresses(For instance, getting actual reads and thoughts out of Egos). Until we get our first flip, we play it by ear.
It should go without saying I will reevaluate later, as I assume most of this game will. But for now, they are town enough.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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I wouldn’t hesitate to call it a town post from Caster, considering the follow through from early on about us, Archer. Not sure if I should be concerned about the rigidity and refusal to reevaluate with more information, but it is still in the first phase. Plenty of time to eat words down the line.
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Will you two let me post-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Your entire case you’ve laid out is that we ignored your scumread and Archer is trying to push for me to be master. You haven’t laid out the rest of your thoughts, so how is anyone supposed to try and see them through your lens?
And as another note entirely, why are you expecting a likely seasoned player list to play inside a neat little box in the first place?-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Archer, do you have any thoughts on the convenience of the Miller claim in conjunction with Assassin? I was debating how scum would approach this, as I already laid out the postgame notes from the last game.
I’m not saying Assassin is scum either. I just wouldn’t be surprised if one of the main contenders did end up flipping red. Maybe some scum in the people arguing purely for a mechanical choice, and maybe one in the town leader side as well.
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Not disagreeing, I just would not expect seasoned players without the shackles of meta to stay in their normal box. Who’s town and who’s scum, Rider?-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Without us there are multiple others heavily considering making me the master that you would need to dissuade, those are who you need to outline it for. I’m not asking you to convince someone of their alignment, I’m asking you to do more than sit back and fearmonger.
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Wasn’t a fan either, but who ever is a fan of Miller claims?
What do you need to get invested in the game?-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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I can quote a few random posts from different ISOs for you and you can share your thoughts, or you can talk about how you believe we should be choosing our master.
You are also welcome to address my questions to Archer- how do you think scum positioned around the master debate? Did they all take the same side, or divide and conquer?
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And again, there’s one way to test that theory. My point isn’t that everyone saying I should be master is scum, my point is that you keep trying to draw associatives for how Archer and I could be a team without explaining what exactly it is each of us has done to seem scummy. But you are asking for Archer to explain his townread. There’s a double standard I am trying to rectify.-
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Name names.In post 317, Servant Beast wrote:I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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You are saying scum is trying to derail from Saber while best I can tell, you are townreading myself, Lancer, Archer. That leaves Ruler, Egos, foreigner potentially. Foreigner is not really doing anything. Ruler only voted me when prompted by me. Have you come around to a scumread on Egos? Because otherwise, all you are doing is trying to discredit me as an option.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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I don’t townread Saber, and think playing solely around the mechanics is misguided, as I’ve already said.In post 348, Servant Beast wrote:
I'm fairly critical of myself and I don't really get why you think you should get this grail over another town player who comes off as pretty genuine. You're colder and harder to read.In post 346, Servant Berserker wrote:You seem very critical of everyone else. Why is that?
How can I help you read me better?
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My accuracy depends on the style of game I’m playing. This style is my most accurate. I do well in my other styles too, but this type of game does a lot to help cover my weaknesses.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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What was this in response to then? I don’t think Saber experienced much resistance besides myself saying we need to think of all sides of the role (Archer also shared similar sentiments). I’ve already outlined resistance to me and most everyone has resisted Assassin, so this comment feels out of place.In post 390, Servant Foreigner wrote:Did anyone oppose Saber election? I don't like recent lack of resistance-
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Maybe I was unclear on your phrasing (and in mine). I thought you were saying “I prefer Saber because there has been no resistance to Berserker” and that felt strange given the resistance I had from Beast and caster. But instead, it seems you are saying “Why was Saber not voted, where is this resistance coming from” and I don’t have any other arguments other than those I’ve already made, and the fact that people seem to be townreading me more than Saber/believe I would do better in the leadership position.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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I don’t think I implied a scumread on either of you. I’m still trying to figure you out but have been fairly vocal in my townread of caster. And again, we run into the issue of “where is scum positioning.” If I had to pick one vote I didn’t like for me, it would be Avenger. I’d also argue that Foreigners recent line of defense puts him in that same arena, and would be my choice for scum of the three of you.
I hope we see how Ego’s reads progressed through the early game at some point, because that would do a lot to help firm up the read there. I liked Archer’s interaction with Caster. I’ve liked the quick wit coming from Lancer, and the posts I’ve already mentioned.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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In post 226, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:Archer
Saber
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Ruler,Avenger,Foreigner
Caster,Beast
Berserker
Assassin
Alter Ego
VOTE: Saber
It seems like your entire readslist has flipped, can you explain what changed for each of-In post 462, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:Archer
Ruler
Beast,Caster,Berserker
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Avenger,Assassin
Saber
Foreigner
Alter Ego
VOTE: Servant Berserker
Saber, Ruler, Beast, Caster, me, Assassin, and Foreigner?-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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And beast?
My big concern is there have been several people expressing concern over your reads, and such a rapid flip without detailed explanation into it seems rather opportunistic. For instance, which reads that ruler gave did you find the strongest? You said that your reasons to scumread me were incorrect but have not explained what it is that made you townread me. Why is Ruler conditional on the flips of Saber and Foreigner?
Side note, I’m at M-2. Speak now or hold your piece.-
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Servant Berserker Goon
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Servant Berserker Goon
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That was continuing my line of questioning into Moon, who didn’t elaborate on their change of heart on you in particular. Not much elaboration in general, but you were left out of the post entirely.
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I didn’t do a super big one, but it did help refresh my memory on some things (I admittedly attributed to lancer) that I found somewhat towb, as well as agreeing with your stance on the questioning the wagon being a good look. It helps we agree about Moon.-
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I also find my wagon composition disturbing. Which are the worst votes and why?In post 489, Servant Rider wrote:It's like, I don't find Saber's ability description all that enticing, but I find the wagon composition for Berserker to be slightly disturbing.-
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I've spent the past few hours working on this and am not fully satisfied, and have some more things I want to look into. But for sake of advancing the game and providing insight into my PoV, this is about where I am at. Anyone below the town is subject to move. Some of these can easily go up or down depending on answers to questions.
Town Reads
Servant Lancer- As I have said before, I find Lancer to be fairly town for their self introspection about why they did not want to be the master in 85. I also liked the follow up on my earlier question in 220 as well as their stance on caster in 248 as it is a weird approach for scum to take when preparing a read. Combine this with the following 249 of snappy comments felt genuine. I still expect to see some solving out of them to keep their spot amongst the stars.
Servant Archer- I might have a soft spot for my biggest fan. Besides that, we have moved in near lockstep for the duration of the game. Given my late appeal to be the master, I don't think I would be the choice for scum to buddy, so that lends itself to similar motivation by virtue of similar alignments. 41 is an earlier one I thought but never said. For recent instances, take a look at their interaction with Caster. It is genuinely trying to explain and be transparent to allow Caster the information needed to reevaluate their read and overcome the tunnel. I'm speaking of 369, 372. I also appreciated the transparency regarding his changing perspective about who should be town master in 376, particularly with regards to the unvote of Saber and how they were developing a new decision.
Servant Caster- Caster seems like misguided town. As I have said already, I believe scum would not be as clueless about the history of the game (it frankly surprised me any player would not look up how the roles looked last game). This is followed up by the development of the read on 194. I think scum would be a tad more flexible than to hold on to a page 2 scumread in a dead tunnel as well, including the situational awareness in 351 about my professed reads, and following up again on getting more information out of me in 469. My biggest complaints here is that despite opposing my master they have not shared any reasons I could be scum beyond pre-flip associatives, but I assume they just think hiding their case will give it more gravitas.
Servant Alter Ego- They, like Archer, have been mirroring a lot of my thoughts throughout the game. I did drop them down some when Beast pointed out that it was mostly mechanical and easily faked. 299 was the same thing I was thinking. I also liked their comments in 427 about how Beast was campaigning for Saber by virtue of making resistance a scumtell, and while somewhat abrasive, I do agree with their analysis on Beast spending a lot more time critiquing everyone else, and 441 feels somewhat against the grain as well. I also liked their shutdown of the back and forth with beast in 457 and feel like scum don't shut things down quite like that. I don't think scum has any incentive to shut down the line of questioning in the first place, and if they were going to, would choose something more along the lines of discrediting.
Lean Town
Servant Saber- I was not initially townreading them, until I did the review after talking with Beast. The points I found easiest to swallow were about their suspicions of the building master wagon on them, in specific the Moon suspicion listed in 235. I also had issues with the Moon reads list, and their justifications were weak. I found it town to be comparing his location to the other candidates and draw that conclusion.
Servant Foreigner- This was the hardest one on the list for me to place. It changed up slots upon my reread, for one post in particular. 162 is a town post, that's a town confession. Yes, scum has to remember who people are to fake reads and yada yada, but I don't think scum just comes out and says it. They have other good posts such as 171 which showed good gamestate awareness, and I think 388 is a little too blunt to come from scum. It isn't as strong as my other townreads, but enough to put him at the bottom of my town list.
Null
Servant Rider- This is just under the line. I liked the pause about the wagon composition in 489. I liked their confusion about Moon and Egos coexisting on the wagon in 492 because it brought up something I missed myself. I liked his call back in 490, as it shows he is trying to get into Saber's head and seeing if his statements are holding up as time goes on.
Servant Ruler- I find myself wanting more from their posts. It's pbpa, but majority of the comments are just "this post is pure of heart" without walking through the thoughts that make them believe that. I disagree with their moon stance, but that read is somewhat against the grain. I'm almost tempted to call them town for that read, if they actually explained what it was about not one, but both of Moon's readslists they found town. The other thing I find myself leaning town on from them is the read on Saber. It's an awkward angle for scum to take when trying to start a push on someone. I could see it, however, providing plenty of backtracking via "Oh I guess I was wrong on who it was"
Servant Assassin- They were my first scumread of the game, I was not a fan of the "I have a strong role master me" as others have already shared, its an easy way for scum to get the master without actually committing anything. I did end up liking their thoughts once they started analysis, and while I disagreed with it liked the read on Lancer in particular. Now, you might be asking why they are in null. I will hit on this further later.
Lean Scum
Servant Beast- I have mixed feelings here. On the one hand, I think their pushing Saber and belief of that feels genuine, and I liked their response to me in 348. I wish there was more follow up and actual trying to read me, I tried to extend a hand to allow them into my head but nothing ever truly came of it. I do agree with Alter's analysis that there does seem to be a lot of questions and very little analysis or follow up, it mostly seems to revert back to "We need to master Saber." As of this point in the thread, I think they have declared 4/5 reads? But there was a good chunk of time they only had two actual reads, and I found it hard to believe they had no other impressions.
Servant AvengerI didn't like the miller claim. I will hit on this more later.
Scum
Servant Moon Cancer- Originally one could have made the argument that such controversial reads in 226 were more likely to come from scum. Then, they change their entire list up in 462 after receiving a lot of flak over a few of these reads, one central one is their read on me. They justify the read on me in 238 (and I use the term justify lightly). The person who calls it out (other than me I believe) is Alter, their lowest scumread. There is no backtrack, there is no attempt to read me, just a strange flip. Even if they said "Well my strongest townread is pro-Berserker Master" that would at least make some sense. The backtracks feel too inorganic.-
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I’m sure you’ve seen the recent uptick in do nothing and lose scumteams, right Caster?In post 508, Servant Caster wrote:@Berserker.
Let's assume you're town. Your townreads are correct.
What do you suppose the scum team is trying to do?
Why have they chosen to not contest and allow you to just waltz into Town-Leadership and take Mastery without really putting up any kind of fight whatsoever?
I wouldn’t be surprised if they pushed for me to get the master because I haven’t spent any time talking about my role. There’s a thought that crossed my mind that if Saber is scum, it’s incredibly likely to find more scum in the “just follow the mechanical strength” group. But besides that point, how often is it scum is actually on the same page in day play?
Pedit-
There is always a need for reevaluation down the line when more information is made available. See the recent MD thread about mind melding, in situations like this where information is limited, it’s things like that which help jump someone up the reads list. If people decide to wagon them, then so be it. I’m not going to shut down people who think differently, and I’m not going to let those at the top coast either.
At the end of the day I want to win this game. If I make a mistake in an early readslist (that was somewhat unpolished), I would obviously be open to hearing about it down the line. But I’d require actual casing, for pretty much everything. We can’t use meta or anything, this is going to come down to who can find scum and case them the best.
I’ll toss this question back at you. If scum were to contest, how exactly would they do that besides the consistent nay saying and critiquing the wagon. Hell, some could even argue having scummier members vote the wagon to try and stunt it’s momentum is a tactic.
But my bottom line is that if scum did have a tactic coming in, it was either “don’t go for the master” or “make a play for master by promising strong mech”-
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Servant Berserker Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 395
- Joined: August 28, 2020
- Location: The Throne of Heroes
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Servant Berserker Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 395
- Joined: August 28, 2020
- Location: The Throne of Heroes
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Servant Berserker Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 395
- Joined: August 28, 2020
- Location: The Throne of Heroes