Choose Carefully Mafia: (Game Over)
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CarnCarn
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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Oh no, that is not something I like to hear. My initial guess is that probably means there's some roles with lynch protection, but maybe there are other reasons. I can't think of any other reason why that lynched person wouldn't be a sicilian.Moses le fou wrote:Townies can be lynched by both gun and rope, right? So if we lynch somebody by gun and that person does not die, it's safe to assume that person is Sicilian?
The first is correct. For the second, you cannot know for certain why a lynch fails.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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you need armlx to "talk tactics" and you jumping on my wagon? Hmm...Battle Mage wrote:we really need Armlx here, to talk tactics. Do we vote for the weapon first, as that might allow 1 scumgroup to get complacent, and run riot, or do we do it last, to try and gauge reactions and make votes mean something?
Also, i'llVote: CarnCarn
3rd on a wagon is obvtown.
BMFoS: Battle Mage-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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I should probably elaborate on this. My vote on armlx was not purely random. I have some setup information that makes me sightly suspicious of him. Nothing incriminating either way, but suspicion none the less.CarnCarn wrote:
you need armlx to "talk tactics" and you jumping on my wagon? Hmm...Battle Mage wrote:we really need Armlx here, to talk tactics. Do we vote for the weapon first, as that might allow 1 scumgroup to get complacent, and run riot, or do we do it last, to try and gauge reactions and make votes mean something?
Also, i'llVote: CarnCarn
3rd on a wagon is obvtown.
BMFoS: Battle Mage
BM calling out to armlx to "talk tactics" and jumping on my wagon deepens my suspicions.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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That said,Vote Ropeto counter-wagon Gun, andVote CarnCarn. I can't see what set up info you can have in a day start that makes you "mildly" suspicious of someone, so I'm inclined to think he is lying here.[/quote]
You are either avoiding the issue or I just picked up another bit of information about the set up.
Going on what you said, I'm currently inclined to think the latter, and that you are scum.
Also, can oEJo explain his non-random vote, please?[/quote]-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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EBWOP to make my last post easier to read.
You are either avoiding the issue or I just picked up another bit of information about the set up.armlx wrote:That said,Vote Ropeto counter-wagon Gun, andVote CarnCarn. I can't see what set up info you can have in a day start that makes you "mildly" suspicious of someone, so I'm inclined to think he is lying here.
Going on what you said, I'm currently inclined to think the latter, and that you are scum.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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The more I think about it, the more I think you're right. I don't think its uncommon to setup the way it is anymore. In any case, at this early stage, armlx is still my most suspicious target, but I'll be looking for something more convincing.Moses le fou wrote:As for the whole CarnCarn/armlx thing, I have a rough idea what CarnCarn is getting at, but if I'm right (I don't want to say it just in case CarnCarn's BSing us and I'm giving him an out), we should probably just ignore it.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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No, it's not a bluff, and from only pregame info, it is only enough info for slight suspicion.armlx wrote:
Or I'm calling your bluff.You are either avoiding the issue or I just picked up another bit of information about the set up.
Like I said, I can't see any source of pre-game information that would only make youslightlysuspicious of a particular other player.
What alarmed me was BM's calling out to you to "talk tactics", which I found strange. Still, it's only slight; not more, not less at this point.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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You're right about D - I haven't played enough to really use meta, anyway.STD, E and D aren't options. D as I hadn't posted besides confirmation, something that is essentially random for me based on if I forget to watch the topic or not (see: Dynamite Mafia); E as that happened AFTER he said the thing about having the info.
You're wrong about E - The BM post I'm referring to is 47. I make the setup claim in 54.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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It was placed before BM's comment, yes. It was based off that info, and the in-game stuff only fueled my doubts about you. I.e., it's based off both, now. I asked the mod for clarification about the info I'm talking about, and, from his response, it's pretty clear that you are avoiding the issue.armlx wrote: But your vote was placed before said comment. So either
A) I'm right
or
B) Your vote is based off of things from in thread, not pre-game
aka I'm right or I'm right.
I don't know that I should. I'm inclined to think that Moses is correct that we can just ignore it for now, because, by itself, it doesn't condemn anyone. And revealing it has some considerable downside for the town.Save The Dragons wrote: Carncarn, are you going to talk about it, or are you just going to dangle this piece of candy in front of us and withdraw your hand at the last minute? I don't really respond to arguments like, "I have info, but I'm not sayin' nothin'."
Yes, I think I will wait for a better time.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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I don't see why E is wrong. I placed my vote before the game, basically randomly, although with a few extra percentage points towards armlx. Then, the BM post came and I grew more suspicious.Empking wrote:CarnCarn wrote:
You're right about D - I haven't played enough to really use meta, anyway.STD, E and D aren't options. D as I hadn't posted besides confirmation, something that is essentially random for me based on if I forget to watch the topic or not (see: Dynamite Mafia); E as that happened AFTER he said the thing about having the info.
You're wrong about E - The BM post I'm referring to is 47. I make the setup claim in 54.Unvote
Vote; CarnCarn
He was arguing that E could be correct when it couldn't have been. Since he's the person making the case.
After reading BM's explanation about armlx and tactics, I'm beginning to think I misinterpreted. And no, I'm a new player and I've not played many games with armlx.
Moses: It was probably what you were thinking earlier. It's not that complicated but I don't want to simply state it.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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Because I wanted to see armlx's response. I haven't revealed it yet, but I will if it would be useful. It is not useful now.SocioPath wrote:CarnCarn wrote:I don't know that I should. I'm inclined to think that Moses is correct that we can just ignore it for now, because, by itself, it doesn't condemn anyone. And revealing it has some considerable downside for the town.
Yes, I think I will wait for a better time.
Why would you state something exists if revealing such would be detrimental to the town?
Your whole style concerning going about this doesn't seem too helpful at this point, as well.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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OK, that's right. The info I have, much like BM's post, is open to interpretation. That's why I said it made me only slightly suspicious and was not condeming anyone. It's possible, at this early stage, that I've misinterpreted that info.armlx wrote:
Because in the context of your vote I don't care about the BM-myself "connection". That's semi-valid analysis in the absence of knowing my tendency to talk about game theory. The issue is the "info" you have that I'm questioning, and that came before BM's post.I don't see why E is wrong. I placed my vote before the game, basically randomly, although with a few extra percentage points towards armlx. Then, the BM post came and I grew more suspicious.
This is really the maximum extent to which I will go into it right now. Of course, if it appears I'm going to be lynched or NK'd, then it would be valuable info for the town, and I'll reveal it then. All of what I'm saying should hopefully make sense then.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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Your continued doubts suggest that you're not simply avoiding the matter - you're honestly ignorant of it. For a moment there, you managed to have me thinking you weren't scum.armlx wrote:Still think CC is just lying out his ass.
First of all, if you were pro-town, you should know why that info is enough to make me "slightly suspicious" of you. You claimed to have no idea what info that could be. The emphasis here is on "you," as in armlx (this doesn't apply to anyone else).
Do you know why you don't know? Because you're scum. Ironic because scum are supposed to be "informed" faction.
Moving back toVote: armlx
I'll give you another chance to explain yourself, and then I will explain this info if you don't get it.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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OK, you got what I was talking about. I'll move back again toarmlx wrote:Meh, I've screwed it up enough its at least worth this.
CC and myself can night talk. Not masons, as neither of us has received confirmation of the other's alignment. The later is what CC is talking about, as he is assuming this lack of confirmation is more or less a confirmation of guilty. However, I have NEVER seen that or similar things happen without symmetry in a 2 scum group game, and even in a 1 scum group game I have only seen it happen 1 time out of many, the single exception being a game the mod was fucking with the players as much as possible (Sin City Mafia on MTGS). I've seen it and can expect it with 3 player groups (President Mafia comes to mind), but in a 2 player group I doubt it.
So, basically I'm pretty sure CC is town now that I've stopped being an idiot.
As for other, non-night talk abilities, I have no comment. CC or myself may or may not have those.Vote: EmpKing. I didn't assume it meant you were guilty, but perhaps you can see why I interpreted BM's post the way I did. My initial vote was pretty much random, with a few percent thrown your way, as I said.
Yeah, this game seems large enough to have 2 scum teams.
No comment on non-night talk abilities from me, as well.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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lol i'm an idiot, brain freezearmlx wrote: The set up itself implies 2 scum groups. considering we have to choose which one is lynch vulnerable each day.....
You're right. I'm back to where I started the game, as far as armlx goes. Still kinda suspicious, but nothing to go on.Save The Dragons wrote: Well, I'm glad you guys do, but it doesn't really clear them in the slightest (not that I don't believe the claims).
Right now I'm leaning towards an EmpKing lynch for being shifty/opportunistic. Probably only minor points against him, but that's really all I've got to go on for now.-
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I think STD is right. The mod edit doesn't tell us anything because it was always obvious that there were 2 scum groups (sicilians and corsicans), and the town (from the intro and pregame posts).Battle Mage wrote:
Reading through, Armlx is starting to smell...right up until this comment by the Mod. Why would the Mod post this? It seems fairly obvious to anyone who is paying attention. And it's not like it will really have a major impact on the game if it isnt remembered. That is, i cannot see how the Mod could possibly make this comment if Armlx was scum, because if he did, it could be considering meddling with what could be a ploy by Armlx.armlx wrote:
The set up itself implies 2 scum groups. considering we have to choose which one is lynch vulnerable each day.....Yeah, this game seems large enough to have 2 scum teams.
Going ahead and clearing up any remaining confusion. You know for a fact that there is a Sicilian Mafia and a Corsican Mafia in the setup.
As such, he's pretty much confirmed town.
BM-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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Yeah, it was a brain freeze at the time I was writing it. Playing too many games/doing too many things at the same time. It was an honest slip. I was thinking only about the number of players and forgot about the whole game flavor when I was posting that.Moses wrote: However, re-reading that exchange makes me wonder why CarnCarn wouldn't be sure. Like I said, the entire premise of this game's theme is based on our knowledge that there are two mafias, each of them unkillable via a particular method. If CarnCarn wasn't aware of that very important factor, why hadn't he mentioned it earlier? The fact that we have to vote on an execution method should have been enough of a red flag.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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That's because IQuote:
If CarnCarn wasn't aware of that very important factor, why hadn't he mentioned it earlier?
I don't get this.wasaware. Soon after my first random vote for armlx, I voted gun for lynch method. I never even slightly assumed there could only be one scum group in any post other than that one.-
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I'm feeling Moses is town based off his early strategy speculation about choosing the lynch method. I think he's extrapolating too much from an honest slip, though.
Also, I tend to agree that the Santos "tell" is a stretch, as well as trying to read mod-tells. AFAIK, who knows for sure why mods really do anything?-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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I don't know what the whole point of this ability is either. My guess is that the mod just wants to throw in extra confusion. I don't really see anything I could talk about at night with armlx that I couldn't during the day.I can't help myself. The claim for having a mason and NOT knowing the other mason's alignment bugs me. Is there more we can break from this? Obviously the plain fact that they're masons we would naturally assume they would both be town aligned, but adding in the fact that they do not know each other's alignment makes me a lot more skeptical. I mean, what good is having this ability? EX: If I were in CarnCarn/armlx's shoes why not just talk in the game thread to each other?-
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Welcome, Thunder.
I don't know about EmpKing meta and I haven't heard anyone else vouch for it except CD, so I'm thinking he is still scummy.
I'm not really buying the Santos wagon. It's based off of his buddying with RBT and his desire to avoid committing to a lynch method. Neither are scum tells to me. It would really take pretty dense scum to openly ally/brownose the way Santos did. Also, I think he should commit to a lynch method mostly because it doesn't really matter which one is picked day 1 (but does help to guage people's reactions and preferences for method).
So, for now, I'm still keeping my vote on EmpKing.-
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Interesting. I also assume you are talking about unconfirmed alignment. In which case, I don't see what the harm would be of that person stepping up, although I don't see any benefit from that person stepping up, either.Santos wrote: Maybe because I have a very similar role to what you two have claimed. Though, in this case, I do not advise my 'mason' to announce it now
What I find strange is how you didn't believe what I was talking about, at first. You probably could have figured out I had a similar role.-
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armlx is right.armlx wrote:
Right and I have no indication we are. I think Moses le fou is assuming that if we were both scum we would possibly lie about anything.Don't lovers usually know they're lovers?
Interesting. If it is the latter setup, and you were scum, why would you point this out? I don't know whether to think this is WIFOM or you are simply town.armlx wrote:The general conclusion would be if 4 of us had that role that in order for the mafia groups to be balanced relative to each other either all 4 people with the role would have to be town or exactly 2 scum, one from each group. Its possible that they would be arranged S1-S2 and T-T, but T-S1 and T-S2 is more likely on design principle.
It's also possible that the former setup is the case, and we are both town, or even that both mason groups are town (I don't see any reason why not).[/quote]-
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Actually, I'll take this one step further. We could also have T-T and T-S1/S2, or even three such mason groups, T-T, T-S1, T-S2 (the latter is how I personally would have chosen to design it), or even a fourth S1-S2. Look at the AA mafia game for an example of this.armlx wrote: The general conclusion would be if 4 of us had that role that in order for the mafia groups to be balanced relative to each other either all 4 people with the role would have to be town or exactly 2 scum, one from each group. Its possible that they would be arranged S1-S2 and T-T, but T-S1 and T-S2 is more likely on design principle.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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So, hp[leaves] has 2 votes?bird1111 wrote:Vote Count:
Lynch Method Vote Count:
Gun (6): CarnCarn, ZazieR, hp [leaves], oEJo, christiano drago, ZTR
Rope (6): Save the Dragons, Riceballtail, armlx, Empking, Sineish, Moses le fou
Not voting for a lynch method (5): Battle Mage, Thunder, SocioPath, Santos, hp [leaves]
Fixed.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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I don't see why committing to a lynch method would be a bad idea now. In fact I think it would help if we just choose one first and stuck to it. If the person we elect for the lynch doesn't end up getting killed, they are most likely going to be scum of the opposite faction. Apparently there are other ways for a lynch to fail, according to the mod, but this is probably the most likely scenario.
Can we get back to this plz?-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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I'm not sure, actually. armlx's theory of the symmetrical town/scum pairings is interesting, and this info could help town down the line. But it seems like it would help scum right away, if it's true.Santos wrote: I am a mason as described by you two people earlier, but why should I ask for him to come out? Yes, at this juncture it means I am unconfirmed, but why the hell should I appease just you that is hammering me most about it?-
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why are we wagoning santos anyway? can we get back to wagoning hp[leaves] or RBT? They've basically contributed nothing, while the only thing Santos has against him is correcting the mod for his gun vote, which is a null-tell, as far as I know.
I don't know why armlx wants to know the identity of santos' mason buddy, but apparently there is a good reason.
Santos, can you definately say that you don't know the alignment of your mason buddy and that they don't know yours? If this is the case, I don't see any reason to reveal any more information right now.-
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OK, there a couple points here. The biggest one is the first one. If you agree with what I said above santos, then why do you not want to vote for a lynch method, Santos (actually I thought he was voting Gun, initially)?Save the Dragons wrote: RE: Santos,
I didn't like the "I don't want to participate in gun/rope" shtick.
I really didn't like the "I'm jumping on Moses because I want to put pressure on a bandwagon no wait I'm going to unvote him now."
I didn't like how he called out Riceballtail as doing a good job.
Santos wagon FTW
Vote: Santos
I think I know why he voted/unvoted Moses.
Yeah, also RBT isnotdoing a good job. What are you talking about Santos? I still don't see this as a scum-tell, though.-
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Well, if you're just asking for the role name, I think you could direct the question at Santos. You probably have some reason I don't see, though, to ask him mason buddy to step up.I didn't want the identity. I wanted confirmation before I proceeded with this.
I want your partner to come out with your exact role name. Now.-
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lol *snickers*Save The Dragons wrote:
I as well must commend you on your excellent play! You vote for armlx, then you accuse him of scumhunting. Which is clearly a scummy thing to do.Riceballtail wrote:UNVOTE; VOTE:Armlx
FoS:Moses
Thought: Armlx is trying to get a name out of him to see if it's a scumbuddy, so he can figure out if CC is also therefore scum or not.-
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STD, he has already said that he doesn't know his mason buddy's alignment.
Santos, what exactly were you talking about here:Santos (282) wrote:
I can definitely say that we do not know each others' alignment. Furthermore, I have not even contacted said mason yet because it is not night, obviously; and I have no idea what we would talk about anyway.Santos, can you definately say that you don't know the alignment of your mason buddy and that they don't know yours? If this is the case, I don't see any reason to reveal any more information right now.
This really bothers me in context of things you've you said.Santos wrote: The claim for having a mason and NOT knowing the other mason's alignment bugs me.-
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I don't see why it would be the case, since alignments of all "masons" are unknown (except to themselves, of course).ZazieR wrote:I agree with armlx here. Now that Santos has already 'revealed' that he's a mason, he already has a higher chance of being NK'ed. If there isn't a third mason it doesn't matter if Santos reveals or doesn't reveal his partner as Santos can get NK'ed and his partner changes in a normal townie.
I would like to know who his partner is. If his partner can confirm that they are masons, then we at least know there's another mason group. Now there's still a chance of him lying.
You are assuming that the masons are all definately town-aligned, which is probably not a good assumption at this point.
And, if Santos is telling the truth, there should be at least 4 masons now.-
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Vote:SantosEven though this puts him at L-1.
There were so many things out of place in that post...
Also, I'm not sure about the symmetry argument oEJo is using. That is not why I'm voting Santos.
What I found particularly strange was where he said his role might have mentioned armlx and that he didn't remember who my mason partner was. And then he later says oEJo is his mason partner.-
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Actually, I would like everyone to choose a lynch method. Those not voting for one have tried to argue their way out of doing so, but haven't provided anything logical.
Now that we're actually close to lynching someone, I agree that BM and others should choose a lynch method, as they've said they would.-
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Wait a second...
Does this mean there is only one way to kill a townie, and thus a failed lynch tells us nothing about alignment?Mod wrote:The Sicilian Mafia and Corsican Mafia have chosen to take over a small town. Just one problem, the only method that the Sicilian Mafia has to kill off the Corsicans doesn't work on the Town, while their best method for killing of members of the Town doesn't work on the Corsicans and same for the Corsicans! The town has a similar problem, as they have to use different methods for the Sicilians and the Corsicans.-
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Gun kills Corsicans, Rope kills Sicilians.Rope lynches scum, gun kills townies. Why would it be the other way around?
Actually, after thinking about this some more, I'm beginning to think the NK methods for scum are different from the Gun/Rope lynch methods (they would have to be, based on the opening post, IMO).
For example, the Corsican can choose to NK with Rope or some other weapon that kills only townies (and to which the Sicilians are immune). Otherwise, the Corsicans can just NK with Rope all the time. So, each scum group is actually immune to 2 weapons, for this work out.
However, I don't understand why the Corsicans wouldn't choose Rope anyway because Rope should be able to kill townies as well (AFAIK, I have no protection against any weapon). This setup is driving me insane right now.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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It helps to read the threadSantos wrote: I don't get how you know that: 'Gun kills Corsicans, Rope kills Sicilians. 'bird1111 (19) wrote:
You all have heard the news. Both the Sicilian Mafia and the Corsican Mafia have decided to take over your small town. However, you all decide to set up a lynch rope and a gun to kill them off before they kill you off. However, the Coriscan Mafia can't be killed by a rope, while the Sicilians have bulletproof vests, perventing guns from killing them. No matter, you are ready to use either, so you all decide to make the first blow.
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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Yeah, I'm not getting this because armlx seemed pretty confident that I was town (and I am). I think he's town, too, after he intitial mix-up.Save The Dragons wrote:
So...you think that it's not possible to have a town-town mason group due to both symmetry and design space (especially if Santos comes up scum).armlx wrote: Too much design space taken up. That would involve at least 6 roles like that.
Does this mean you think your partner is scum?
I also don't see why 6 Neighbor roles isn't possible. I think that is better symmetry (T-T, T-S1, T-S2).
This is hard to explain perhaps, but I mostly don't think armlx is scum because he is sticking to the symmetry rule. If he were scum and he believed this, then if/when I am lynched and flip town, then he would be an obvious target. However, since I know I'm town and that armlx would only say what he said if he were town, I'm thinking we are a town-town mason pair.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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I think it's OK to say this now. I am a Neighbor. Santos and EJ were correct in their role-name claims.Sineish wrote:
I don't recall them saying either.hp [leaves] wrote:Can someone remind me what was the role name of CC and armlx? I looked through the thread and couldn't find it.
This doesn't say whether or not we have any other night abilities, as armlx mentioned earlier.-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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Oh my. **facepalm**Santos wrote: I have spoken only the truth.
Fixed.Santos wrote:that sucks (for me).
Claiming Neighbor doesn't prove you are protown. I never said oEJo is not scum in that post, nor did I say that you were.
Please vote a lynch method or my vote will go back on, although I still get mad scum vibes from hp[leaves].-
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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CarnCarn Mafia Scum
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