Choose Carefully Mafia: (Game Over)

[armlx]

Vote: Rope. Why, now? Well, CarnCarn brought up a pretty solid point making me think that its plain jane mafia now...

Rope lynches scum, gun kills townies. Why would it be the other way around?

What the fuck?

[Santos]

I don't get how you know that: 'Gun kills Corsicans, Rope kills Sicilians. '

[armlx]

19. The town, in addition to choosing who to lynch, has to choose which Mafia group can be lynched that day. Either the lynch is by a rope (which the Corsican group is immune to) or by a gun (which the Sicilians are immune to).

Uhhhh......

Honestly.....

[CarnCarn]

I don't get how you know that: 'Gun kills Corsicans, Rope kills Sicilians. '

It helps to read the thread

You all have heard the news. Both the Sicilian Mafia and the Corsican Mafia have decided to take over your small town. However, you all decide to set up a lynch rope and a gun to kill them off before they kill you off. However, the Coriscan Mafia can't be killed by a rope, while the Sicilians have bulletproof vests, perventing guns from killing them. No matter, you are ready to use either, so you all decide to make the first blow.

[Santos]

that sucks.

[armlx]

This ploy isn't going to work. Sry, good try though.

[SocioPath]

that sucks.

It sucks because you were trying to feign ignorance to try and look more townie?

Vote: Gun

[Santos]

Sure. If that's what you think when you touch yourself at night :p

[armlx]

No, actually, p sure he's just right and you are trying to ad hom your way into tilting someone into getting lynched.

[hp [leaves]]

Just a reminder:

I can't help myself. The claim for having a mason and NOT knowing the other mason's alignment bugs me. Is there more we can break from this? Obviously the plain fact that they're masons we would naturally assume they would both be town aligned, but adding in the fact that they do not know each other's alignment makes me a lot more skeptical. I mean, what good is having this ability? EX: If I were in CarnCarn/armlx's shoes why not just talk in the game thread to each other?

Can someone remind me what was the role name of CC and armlx? I looked through the thread and couldn't find it.

[Save The Dragons]

Rope lynches scum, gun kills townies. Why would it be the other way around?

Vote: Gun

I am pretty sure I voted for gun.

Fixed.

TOWNIE KILLER DIE DIE DIE

[Save The Dragons]

[q]This, I don't like. The Gun/Rope vote is very linked to people possibly being scum. Avoiding it = bad. [/q]
How do you get this? I'm just being honest. Why should I vote for something when people are just going to point the finger at me? At least have a reason to FoS me if you're just going to say, "Hey, look at that apple among the apples in that barrel! I'm going to choose this one for the hell of it!"
Basically, why is my vote/unvote more suspicious than others who have voted or unvoted the same material? Since the day is not ending soon, why do I need to be immediately hasty and appease everyone with a vote that doesn't matter at the moment? We have time to make up for that.

Also, I want to make a collaborative effort and make sure there is a good reason to have a vote for whatever particular lynch method; that would be working together to find scum this day and then deciding on a method, or am I shooting blanks with this logic?

Can we make a list of priorities?

1) Lets hold off methods until we decide to lynch someone.
2) Lets pick a method and have a good reason to choose just that method.
3) Lets pick a method and someone to vote for immediately.

Option 3 just seems too hasty, IMO. The other two are satisfactory, and perhaps more preferable.

As for my 'bandwagon' vote I didn't want to be redundant in saying 'to add some pressure'.

STD, I don't think the order really matters that much because if we lynch a scum immune to the method, then it will be obvious. Unless it becomes clear that someone is scum of a definate group, I don't see how it matters which order we settle on method and player.

This is about the most legitimate and concrete thing I have seen this entire thread.

Seriously, either you're scum, or the guy from Memento.

[Empking]

Rope lynches scum, gun kills townies. Why would it be the other way around?

Gun kills Corsicans, Rope kills Sicilians.
Actually, after thinking about this some more, I'm beginning to think the NK methods for scum are different from the Gun/Rope lynch methods (they would have to be, based on the opening post, IMO).
For example, the Corsican can choose to NK with Rope or some other weapon that kills only townies (and to which the Sicilians are immune). Otherwise, the Corsicans can just NK with Rope all the time. So, each scum group is actually immune to 2 weapons, for this work out.
However, I don't understand why the Corsicans wouldn't choose Rope anyway because Rope should be able to kill townies as well (AFAIK, I have no protection against any weapon). This setup is driving me insane right now.

Their has been nothing to suggest that the Corsicans use rope as their night kill.

[Save The Dragons]

Unique:

Granted, it's not like this:

Unique Rules to this game!!!!!!!!1111111!!1one!!!

But this is the theme park, and there are clearly different rules in this set up.

Just a short post for now; I'm Santos' unconfirmed Mason (Neighbour)
He's scum, based on symmetry stuff.

Lol, wat? Then who of Armlx + CarnCarn is scum?

I'm not trying to argue that there wouldn't be multiple one town, one scum pairings (read, on the off chance that Santos turns up town, I'm going to take a good look at you tomorrow), but how do you know there isn't also one or two town-town pairings so that we don't inherently break the setup D1?

Actually, Riceballtail had voted for me when Santos jumped on. Actually, that's what brought my eye to Santos -- it felt like he was trying to get a wagon on me because pressure had just begun to shift his way because of the lynch method discussion BM brought up. Coupled with his lack of explanation for the vote. I read it as him going "Errr, enough about me -- let's talk about somebody else!"

Vote Count:

Moses le fou (1): Santos

This is what I get for trusting the vote count. So it does appear he's randomly bandwagoning. Alright.

Yes, and one in particular is how hasty people are to get vote happy when certain things have not been discussed to the fullest.
ex: Someone mentioned how a scum would avoid a particular lynch method, or WIFOM vote for their lynch method that is sure to kill them. Right? Wasn't this brought up? Well, did anyone ask if scum REALLY know what it is that they would be more susceptible to? If there are different lynch methods, then why would scum be privy to such information beforehand in a voting scheme? Answer that one and you get a million ducks!

I think we all just won a million ducks.

As I recall, I was the SECOND vote on Moses and it was purely random, again, but I mentioned I didn't want to sound redundant later because it would appear scummy. But if someone throws in their little tid-bit about 'WIFOM'

someone

my get nitpicky and have a hay-day with it.

Sorry, I missed the fact it was the second vote.

Still...uh...random? Seriously dude?

No particular reason.

Do you see a danger with voting and unvoting someone for no particular reason? Do you see a pro-town reason for voting for someone in the middle of the game for no particular reason?

I just wanted to mention Riceballtail's ability to stay behind the scenes and at the same time be omnipresent throughout the thread...its either a good scum tactic, or a strong pro town power role being conservative...you take your pick.

Now that I'm not being stupid and am aware that the vote count was wrong, I have more insight as to why you chose RBT.

However, his posting style has brought a lot of probably unwated attention to himself in the form of FOSs and votes...which is bad for both scum and a pro town power role. So yeah, I have no idea where you're going with this, or why you'd blindly follow him if he could be scum.

For the record, I did NOT partake in #4 on your list (unless I have and forget, then feel free to call me on douchebaggery).

If by random vote, you mean on page 1 or 2, I don't care. If by random vote, you mean a lynch method, yeah, that looks a little iffy to me, and I think the rope's the best way of doing you in. If you are refering to your page 7 "random" vote, then hellz yeah that seems like some decent evidence to me.

It doesn't have to appeal to you. It is strict in the fact that I am a 'neighbor' and my mason's alignment is unknown. If you're going to make up other things about my role email, then you might as well throw an 'OMGUS' at me as well! :p

To say your play has been inconsistant this entire game would be an understatement.

Yes, I mentioned this because I was not going to jump right in and say 'OMG I HAVE THE SAME ROLE' I wanted to test the water with the people who claimed to have the same ability I did. Why can I not do this? If armlx and CarnCarn ARE really masons, why not speculate about the ability to see if its true what they are saying? That's what you guys seem to have done to me, no; speculating as to whether I am lying or not?

However, you make a good point. The way you phrase it does not really suggest to me that you're testing the waters to see if there's consistancy between their role and yours ("Hey, does your role PM say you guys are confirmed?" vs. "I'm wary of this claim because it doesn't say they're confirmed.")

18. Each Mafia group has to choose whether their kill can affect pro-town people or members of the opposite group

I think this is the message we're supposed to walk away with.

Rope lynches scum, gun kills townies. Why would it be the other way around?

Gun kills Corsicans, Rope kills Sicilians.
Actually, after thinking about this some more, I'm beginning to think the NK methods for scum are different from the Gun/Rope lynch methods (they would have to be, based on the opening post, IMO).
For example, the Corsican can choose to NK with Rope or some other weapon that kills only townies (and to which the Sicilians are immune). Otherwise, the Corsicans can just NK with Rope all the time. So, each scum group is actually immune to 2 weapons, for this work out.
However, I don't understand why the Corsicans wouldn't choose Rope anyway because Rope should be able to kill townies as well (AFAIK, I have no protection against any weapon). This setup is driving me insane right now.

Their has been nothing to suggest that the Corsicans use rope as their night kill.

Hmm...

[SocioPath]

Seriously, either you're scum, or the guy from Memento.

Isn't that the samething though?

Their has been nothing to suggest that the Corsicans use rope as their night kill.

18. Each Mafia group has to choose whether their kill can affect pro-town people or members of the opposite group

The kill method for scum determined by whether it kills pro-town or scum, not whether its a gun or rope.

[Save The Dragons]

The guy from Memento was just kind of screwed...I don't know if he would be considered scum. Although no one in that movie is really a good guy...

[SocioPath]

The guy from Memento was just kind of screwed...I don't know if he would be considered scum. Although no one in that movie is really a good guy...

I'd consider him an SK who was told that he was a vig.

[Save The Dragons]

I don't see that role actually working...(a good description of his character, but I don't see it's functionality in a game of mafia).

[armlx]

I'm not trying to argue that there wouldn't be multiple one town, one scum pairings (read, on the off chance that Santos turns up town, I'm going to take a good look at you tomorrow), but how do you know there isn't also one or two town-town pairings so that we don't inherently break the setup

Too much design space taken up. That would involve at least 6 roles like that.

[CarnCarn]

OK, so I guess the scum weapons are neither gun nor rope, but with the same underlying idea (one kills scum, one kills town). That still means each scum group is vulnerable to two different weapons. Anyway, I don't see this info really helping the town, as I was originally hoping.

[Save The Dragons]

Too much design space taken up. That would involve at least 6 roles like that.

So...you think that it's not possible to have a town-town mason group due to both symmetry and design space (especially if Santos comes up scum).

Does this mean you think your partner is scum?

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Santos (6): ZazieR, Moses le fou, Save the Dragon, ZTR, christiano drago, oEJo
Battle Mage (1): SocioPath
Riceballtail (1): Battle Mage
armlx (1): Riceballtail
hp [leaves] (1): CarnCarn

Not voting (6): Thunder, Santos, hp [leaves], Sineish, Empking, armlx

With 16 alive it is 9 to lynch.

Lynch Method Vote Count:
Gun (7): CarnCarn, ZazieR, hp [leaves], oEJo, christiano drago, ZTR, SocioPath
Rope (6): Save the Dragons, Riceballtail, armlx, Empking, Sineish, Moses le fou

Not voting for a lynch method (3): Battle Mage, Thunder, Santos

If a lynch were to happen without any change in lynch method votes, the Gun would be used.

All pro-town players are effected by both the gun and the rope when lynched unless specified otherwise in their role PM's.

[Sineish]

Sineish, if you can explain your last point, without help from Armlx, that'd be good. Why should we all vote by the end of the day?

I was thinking that we should all vote

for a lynch method

by the end of the day.

That was before I realised that when the hammer falls on the lynchee, the method is picked then, not in a further round of voting until the lynch method reaches majority. I was thinking that scum would only bother influencing the method vote if one of their number was lynched, but I now realise that they would need to be thinking of it earlier.

Can someone remind me what was the role name of CC and armlx? I looked through the thread and couldn't find it.

I don't recall them saying either.

[CarnCarn]

Too much design space taken up. That would involve at least 6 roles like that.

So...you think that it's not possible to have a town-town mason group due to both symmetry and design space (especially if Santos comes up scum).

Does this mean you think your partner is scum?

Yeah, I'm not getting this because armlx seemed pretty confident that I was town (and I am). I think he's town, too, after he intitial mix-up.
I also don't see why 6 Neighbor roles isn't possible. I think that is better symmetry (T-T, T-S1, T-S2).
This is hard to explain perhaps, but I mostly don't think armlx is scum because he is sticking to the symmetry rule. If he were scum and he believed this, then if/when I am lynched and flip town, then he would be an obvious target. However, since I know I'm town and that armlx would only say what he said if he were town, I'm thinking we are a town-town mason pair.

[CarnCarn]

Can someone remind me what was the role name of CC and armlx? I looked through the thread and couldn't find it.

I don't recall them saying either.

I think it's OK to say this now. I am a Neighbor. Santos and EJ were correct in their role-name claims.
This doesn't say whether or not we have any other night abilities, as armlx mentioned earlier.