UK Eastermeet 2022 Invitational (Game over!)

[Porochaz]

I want to marry Tracey Emin

[Porochaz]

Why do I feel like I was tricked into a game of ultimate werewolf?

[Porochaz]

I've decided I like the nom but I don't like the consul mechanic. I'm not sure how I'm going to find anything to latch onto. That said I'm not really enthused by the Bella vote. But it's more interesting than anything to do with potatoes for which I will be promptly ignoring from henceforth.

[Porochaz]

That said if we can get Bella voted by everyone that would be amusing to me. More helpful posts by Prozac later.

[Porochaz]

oh, oh right, well thats no fun.

[Porochaz]

So that quick execution was pretty damn scummy and now the consul mechanic has gone I have more of an impetus to actually get involved. I also could not give a rats ass about potato discussion. That said I guess it cant really be avoided.

if I want her dead I will just execute her (and probably give some warning)

I feel like there was no warning.

And as stated previously, I think we should all vote and have that voting determine our potato redistribution efforts (i.e. if a majority votes for you, you gotta give up your tubers). Voting is pro-town, people.

I give up Mr. Beast and Logan Paul... oh you said your tubers, not youtubers... sorry. Reading it back Im not sure I like this statement, maybe its because I feel that the potato mechanic was best left ignored? But that to me felt like an easy way to get another easily influenced nightkill.

Early townread based on the fact that all my experience with scum!Cerys at the meet was her being a confused lurker that only actively pushes ideas for who's scum when cornered.

That is not my experience of Fen scum.

I'm leaning towards exonerating Bella, but not yet.

I feel like this is not true.

Ok 103 makes me like Takuma.

Were the consuls able to rescind nominations?

So to me, despite the promises of the warning and the suggesting of giving bella a stay of execution, when discussing moved elsewhere Menno executed, there was no chance of a claim (I think) and the reasons which I think boil down to role-fishing was weak. The day ended very quickly, I mean this does feel way too obvious but I really dont like that execution at all.

Ok so Takuma died, there goes my townread.

The Fenchurch and Postie day 2 discussion feels painful to me (and getting more painful with the potatovendor discussion) and doesn't make me feel good about either of them, especially since a lot of my reads do not match Fen's.

Potatoes! Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stupid mafia game so noone talks about anything other than potatoes.

QFT

So things I don't like:
Primates early nomination, I get it was a good way to get discussion flowing. But without a way of getting it back, it's a bit impulsive.
I don't anything about the end of the day and Menno
I dont like potato discussion, but it's needed I guess. Potato vendor discussion however is really not needed.

So things I like:
Er... Wenna's entry into the game, that then dissolved into potato vendor chat.
Nexus in general
Shanba seems town.

So thing I don't know either way.
Cpol
Fenchurch

vote Menno

FoS Postie

[Porochaz]

I guess I've made a proper post now. Welp.

[Porochaz]

Also ffs this isn't about potatos it's about the fact someone *stopped an execution from happening* and I hate that people are handwaving that away as "potato discourse"

Because it's pure speculation and muddies the waters.

[Porochaz]

Also don't have that much of a read on cpol, but I don't see why any of his action would be indicative of scum, getting rid of his own potato would be a risky play. Also in this specific game, we don't know if the scum would have survived without a potato. This isn't the wereleg game, the same rules need not apply.

[Porochaz]

I could see cpol being a good guy, bad guy, or good guy thrown under the bus.

So you're a tough guy
Like it really rough guy
Just can't get enough guy
Chest always so puffed guy

[Porochaz]

Are you saying you don't remember why you were convinced that Bella was scum or claiming you simply didn't care about such things at the time?

I mean it can't be the former, since they said themselves they were less convinced of the Bella vote. So I'm guessing the latter. But then it would have only taken a minute to look through their post history, so yeah, either way...

[Porochaz]

The self vote sucks, caught scum or Town who knows they fucked up. I'm going to catch up with the cpol postie conversation when I'm not on the phone

[Porochaz]

It's pretty important to sort out
If town didn't give cpol a potato then scum did and I want cpol to die

OK so I don't like this post it's very binary and lacks nuance

[Porochaz]

He didn't drown, he must be a witch!

[Porochaz]

unvote

Mcmenno doesn't feel right anymore.

I really don't like Klick's posting but again, it feels like a distraction.

So where does that leave me? Im not entirely sure. I could potentially still see a Menno execution, but Im becoming more invested in a Postie (who has conveniently disappeareared plus Fenchurch feels like a town read at this point) or one of the people taking more of a back seat.

As for the cpol argument, nothing could interest me less. That's not alignment indicative, but I have no interest in voting him for the reasons stated.

Edited to remove outdated language. Badger by PM incoming! - CDB

[Porochaz]

I'm at a wedding this weekend, will be back on monday

[Porochaz]

No I'm not.

[Porochaz]

Irgh okay 21 hours, I'm at work still and super tired so put it this way, I'm going to be voting menno in a few hours unless my subsequent read through of the past day gives me an exciting new insight. I don't see me voting ces, postie could be a viable option but I think we are at a choice between the two.

[Porochaz]

Menno is a really poor vote, there's little substantiating it other than 'the quickhammer wasn't good'

I mean if I had been around more substantially this weekend I'd have delved into looking into you so...

The reason, by the way, of "the quick hammer wasn't good" is better than most other cases on mafia scum. I don't see that as a bad case, I see it as more tangible than "his tone wasn't right on page 5" or "blah blah potato blag" (alongside some wild theories about roles that has no real evidence of being in play, looking at postie here)

Menno is not a bad vote.

[Porochaz]

I think this is a dangerous way of thinking, Postie. You’re forcing the game to have the narrative you want it game to have, rather than the one it does.

I think this line describes where Im at with Postie at this point. I also have a strong will to look at Nexus and Wenna, but yeah Im still reading and will have to delve deeper on those named and CES. Klick is an odd nk as I would have been looking strongly at him today

[Porochaz]

For Poro, I had no faith in that they would be catching up on the game

That hurts. For the record I would have.

[Porochaz]

So I guess coming from a place of honesty, I struggle to get into games unless I have something to latch onto. The consuls meant that I had no skin in the game as it were and it completely shut me off from day 1. I get that its a way to get round the random phase and is thematically relevant, I think. But for me, it felt like I had become a player in someone else's game and Im not convinced Im the only one who felt that. I could have told you that we were going to get an accidental quick hammer, or a result which didn't really reflect towns point of view. Then the potato talk, which I have viewed as vaguely anti-town anyway, I don't think "giving the town extra executions" is actually all that useful because it's not "giving the town" it's "giving the game" and we've almost all been in enough games of forum mafia to know that unless something unusual happens day 1 is a bit of a crapshoot. But I get cpol's reactions to it and why he did what he did, and I get the people who think differently to I. (although I'll still complain about it) However I think overly speculating on what gave cpol a potato night 1 is scummy and given the nature of how we have talked about it, I don't think it's alignment indicative, even if we did get a claim.

In terms of my reads, since the Fen/Postie discussion Fen did something that made me go "oh, she is definitely town" and whilst I haven't based my reads completely on that it has influenced things somewhat. For instance, my Postie read, which has been based on the potato speculation and as cpol said in post 321 creating a narrative where there isn't one. That'll be something I dig into when Im not trying to organise a D&D game with people.

As for Nexus, I actually feel sorry for him playing in a game where a large amount of the references will go over his head, and actually some of the mechanics to. That doesn't excuse the minimal content from him, though. As for Wenna, she had similar thoughts to me early on, so I wrote it off as slightly town and just left it, so that's a thing I need to clarify. CES, I don't see the case, I read through Chris's case and was very meh on it. Chris I think is probably fine. That leaves Primate who I'd forgotten about and looking through his iso I guess I have the same feelings as I do with Nexus. Except there has been some attempt at posting, it's just very surface level and not very probing.

I don't know, writing it all down makes me feel that Postie isn't actually the correct way to look today. (I'll still look, I just don't know if it's the priority) There is something really off about their play, but with 2 people who's interactions have been surface level or minimal, and then Wenna, who for the first half of the game did not want to talk about potatoes, but didn't talk about anything else and then Im not really sure what to think about what her reads are for today.

Anyway that's a mess of a post that talks a lot but says little.

[Porochaz]

Ok then given that was my defence of you, why shouldn't I vote you?

[Porochaz]

wrt Klick it was the veracity of him looking for a potential potato town vendor initially. Beyond that I feel like that the post:content ratio has been off, it's very surface level, which is somewhat I ironic I guess since he said that about me, I haven't really been able to see what the motive is behind his posts. Then there was the bypassing of Menno's quickexecution, saying the rest of his posts were good. They weren't, Menno even says themselves they weren't good. I didn't think Menno looked down and Klick's defence of them by extension looked extremely scummy.

To be honest wrt Fenchurch I can't remember what ticked me over. I believe looking back it was 182, plus the fact she has been one of the few actively scumhunting outwith potato spec. Looking back there are a few statements that make me want to clarify Fen's stances now since Menno flipped town and as she puts in that post there was a less than 1% chance that Menno would be town. So Fen, how have your reads changed since Menno flipped town?

And to answer Fen's question, I did wonder if it was a potential myeo (Im guessing acronyms have to be changed as well), I have no issue in claiming.

[Porochaz]

I am Bernhard Piemann, vanilla townie,

Postie next

[Porochaz]

My current guess for scum team is Wenna, Porochaz, and one of Cpol or CES.

So this seems like you've kinda flipped your reads on their head, and I'd appreciate some explanation?

[Porochaz]

So Fen, how have your reads changed since Menno flipped town?

I guess this ties into the previous question. Considering you were certain Menno was scum. Im looking at how your perspective has changed now that he's flipped town.

I guess considering your lines of questioning and your lack of posting about me and wenna, Im surprised that you picked out the two of us as your scum team, especially with no other reasoning. So basically case pls?

Bernhard Piemann, came from me (I think) misreading Bernhard Riemann in the Name Game, hence he became Bernhard Piemann throughout the game. I think it was a George name that went into the bowl. At least George didn't make me Loose Woman Carol McGiffin.

[Porochaz]

I've been viewing, I've just not been posting.

[Porochaz]

Also not voting.

Yet.

But Im not looking at voting CES.

[Porochaz]

Based on play I have Cpol, Postie and CES as town. Nexus and Poro and Primate as null. Wenna as scummy. But it'd be rare if all the players I think are scummy are actually scum, and mechanics makes me feel that it might be one of Cpol or CES from the 'top'.

I'm going to read through again because there are things I want to talk about but I havent really had the time. First thing on the read through since my last proper post, is - These people are town, these people are null, Wenna is scummy, but the people I think are town are also probably scum.

I mean, that is some read list.

[Porochaz]

@Poro, can you explain what the thought behind that last bit was?

I might be getting my timeline in my head wrong, but I remember thinking it felt town v scum, and Fen did that town thing. At the time I had felt postie was wildly speculating about roles, (and as an aside I still think there may be possibilities other than potato vendor, but given the nature of the game, I guess there probably is a scum vendor, but as soon as I see the word potato I tune out) and at that early stage in the game, it felt fishy and distracted from finding scum. That was why I fos'ed Postie over Fen.

That said, I have not like Fen's posting at all today, and Postie hasn't bothered me all that much, so I don't know.

I don't want to be disrespectful to the mod either, so I have been poorly dancing around it. Because I am grateful CDB ran a game for us, but the consul mechanic for me is something I will never enjoy. It's day 1, we have no reads, and effectively I have no vote either. So my job is effectively to sit there like a bowl of jelly and not do anything or shout ineffectually until we get a quickhammer. Which is what happened. The argument could be made that the potato mechanic puts us back into the game, but given that the focus then became the mechanic itself and not the usage of it, it stopped being interesting. So, Im not sure, I didn't know what to post and from a meta standpoint, if I can't latch onto something then I find it difficult to post, and that was unfortunately where I am with this game, and with work being well... work the effort required for me to get into the game would have been too much. (Hence posting at 12.30am tonight)

At this point, we are probably in MYEO, Im wondering if scum go against each other, in the way that CES is suggesting in 460. At this point, if CES is a miselim then wouldn't they just go for it?

Cpol's 466, seems a lot of effort to vote for CES. That could have been summarised to a couple of lines. I don't mean to be rude, but it feels more justifying it than explanatory.

Im not sure who I want to vote here. CES isn't really at the top of the list, tbh.

CDB, are there six candles burning or should there just be 5?

Im not sure what the massclaim was going to achieve to be honest. I mean I was happy to, because I didn't see a point in not doing it, but to try and gain useful alignment information when scum are more likely than not to have gotten fakeclaims, yeah, that feels bad man.

Cpol, I think feels the safest to me currently, there is the whole business of him getting a potato. But I get the feeling that is more of a distraction. The people voting him were Fen, Nexus and Postie (and Klick), except most of those are on day 1 so... bleh. I don't understand why scum would give cpol a potato, if I now just go into the vending chat. I guess giving a potato to him and presuming he's going to be the next days misexecution is a play and probably a better one than a second execution on night 1. Although is it? Because although it hasn't gone well for town, that plan didn't go as planned, if that was the plan. Plan plan plan. If cpol is town, I really don't see why they wouldn't just kill him. If cpol is scum, then there is a very clear reason to give him a potato, but would he really give away his potato if so? Even with the power role? So much WIFOM. So assuming he is town, which I currently am, then who out of the remaining players would consider that a better play? Considering how people play I guess I would go FenCES and Primate if I thought he was semi invested.

Wenna, I think I've read Wenna wrong every single time, I find her town. I can completely understand, if myself, nexus and primate are struggling to maintain involvement then I don't blame Wenna in her first game of forum mafia to struggle as well. The potato puns were appreciated though.

Primate - I think there is a little hypocrisy there in terms of our respective activity rates. But I think in the case you made against me there was some decent points. I think 271 is not my towniest moment. Im not really reading you as scum, beyond feeling you'd maybe be a bit more in this game if you were town, but Im not sure that's fair. Post 458, if it was non vanilla roles, then there would be a lot of us lying right now, Im wondering if it's alive town roles? Which is why I am asking the question above. I do question your initial nom, but all things considered it feels like a minor thing.

Nexus -

fuck sake why can't we play mountainous.

I am the Whodunnit yarn wall, VT. Hence my apathy. It's boring being VT in a theme game.

I get why you said what you said in your first post. But I think it's worth noting. Post 297 hits me in all the wrong ways. There is the fact I know you hate playing scum. And there is nothing worthy there. Out of everyone, you have the least amount of content, at a certain point, I have to ask, as town, when we are clearly losing, is there not some nugget of info you'd share?

Postie (and by extension Fen, so I don't repeat myself) - I guess I didn't really talk to you much throughout the meet, sorry about that. I bring it up now, because I actually have very little idea about how you play and well, the game that we did have together I can see similarities... Reading back on your theory about Fen and cpol, given the facts that we know now, Im seeing more weight behind your theory. I am wondering despite my assertions earlier in this post that cpol is town, that scum cpol would pass the potato to scumfenchurch knowing that it would likely be passed back but that she would be able to provide one if something went wrong. Which when town menno hammered, it did go wrong.

Is this still a possibility in your mind? Or have I missed something?

Fen - There is the above, but beyond that rereading now, there are things I don't like. The cpol potato being irrational and combined vote, then the celebration that he is alive day 2, the lack of a read on CES - I get he's difficult to read, I have not developed that skill, but to not have a read on CES so late into the game, that doesn't feel like you. Reading through the iso, it looks like you are doing a hell of a lot of work to divert any votes from CES or cpol (post day 1, when your vote didn't count) to other wagons. You are SUPER focused on menno, cpol becomes conftown for some reason that Im not quite getting and your reads are really not consistent and now you seem to be looking for a lurker to execute. That paragraph of your I quoted at the top of the page, feels really bad now looking at it. You've even given yourself an out in that line.

Back to cpol - there is very little on Fenchurch in the posts. There is a CES case, but ultimately there is a relatively quickhammer on Menno. The interaction between 466 and 470 feels disingenuous. But to be honest here, Im picking holes.

CES - So as it's become apparent now, I am seeing Fen - cpol - CES scum team, there are things that don't quite fit that, the claim for one. Im not sure how a consulmaker fits day 1 if CES were scum, but then I could equally see CES target two townies and it delves into a crate load of WIFOM, that probably isn't worth diving into. Im not convinced CES wouldnt have a read on Fen late game either. I probably need to look up the CES case, unless its cpol's one.

So where am I at, I think Fen is now my top scum read, I think there is a good chance now that cpol is her partner, yet I find very little of what he has done individually to be very scummy, and I think CES could be an easy third, but the cpol case kind of also puts a stop to that. I think it could very well not be CES and be Nexus or Primate? However trying to think about teams, I have Fenchurch in almost all iterations.

vote Fenchurch

For case, see both the Fenchurch section and the Postie section.

Term replacement - CDB

[Porochaz]

So that's a very rambley post, I know and I change my mind multiple times throughout it, so it may have come out more like a stream of consiousness than I meant it to. The important part is below. At this juncture I wouldn't quite feel comfortable voting cpol or ces.

Postie (and by extension Fen, so I don't repeat myself) - I guess I didn't really talk to you much throughout the meet, sorry about that. I bring it up now, because I actually have very little idea about how you play and well, the game that we did have together I can see similarities... Reading back on your theory about Fen and cpol, given the facts that we know now, Im seeing more weight behind your theory. I am wondering despite my assertions earlier in this post that cpol is town, that scum cpol would pass the potato to scumfenchurch knowing that it would likely be passed back but that she would be able to provide one if something went wrong. Which when town menno hammered, it did go wrong. Is this still a possibility in your mind? Or have I missed something?

Fen - There is the above, but beyond that rereading now, there are things I don't like. The cpol potato being irrational and combined vote, then the celebration that he is alive day 2, the lack of a read on CES - I get he's difficult to read, I have not developed that skill, but to not have a read on CES so late into the game, that doesn't feel like you. Reading through the iso, it looks like you are doing a hell of a lot of work to divert any votes from CES or cpol (post day 1, when your vote didn't count) to other wagons. You are SUPER focused on menno, cpol becomes conftown for some reason that Im not quite getting and your reads are really not consistent and now you seem to be looking for a lurker to execute. That paragraph of yours I quoted at the top of the page, feels really bad now looking at it. You've even given yourself an out in that line.

Term replacement - CDB

[Porochaz]

Aw fuck, Im sorry, I searched the post multiple times, to ensure I didn't use the word and I corrected any mistakes I made and still one got through and then I requoted it. I suck, Im sorry again.

[Porochaz]

@Poro

- so based off that I see that you you are saying that you think your potential town buddies at this point are indeed Nexus, Wenna and Postie (along with Primate) in your most likely version of the game. So, given that they are all currently voting for CES, and as I stated the town almost universally needs to vote for the same person today, why do you not follow them? What are you actually trying to achieve by voting Fenchurch? You think you are going to convince Nexus, Wenna and Postie to move their vote? If you are town, all you have done is create division at this point.

Given that it was 2 am when I finished I hadn't really looked at that, that said I'm not convinced on ces, we have 4? days, I think it's worth exploring

[Porochaz]

Also for the record, given that it's 4 days, it's interesting that you are telling me that I should give up on the fen case and follow the crowd

[Porochaz]

Tbh I don't know why you think nexus is town?

[Porochaz]

So 1. Glad there was utterly no acknowledgement of a vote or a case against Fenchurch.

2. Is no execution an option today?

Edited for term replacement - CDB

[Porochaz]

Oh sorry I just meant from fenchurch. I expected even just a one line dismissal but didn't even get that.

[Porochaz]

I'm still thinking no execution is a viable option. I generally dislike a ces execution , I won't be voting wenna today, and whilst I'm not at fenchurch or nothing, I am pretty close to it.

Edited for term replacement - CDB

[Porochaz]

So I disagree with ces in regards to the no execution.I think if that were the case then were probably done already.

Edited for term replacement - CDB

[Porochaz]

My current guess for scum team is Wenna, Porochaz, and one of Cpol or CES.

Based on play I have Cpol, Postie and CES as town. Nexus and Poro and Primate as null. Wenna as scummy. But it'd be rare if all the players I think are scummy are actually scum, and mechanics makes me feel that it might be one of Cpol or CES from the 'top'.

So multiquoting on phone is a nightmare. I guess where I'm at is that in this read list you pretty much just chose the less active players as scum. But also stating that you yourself dont have enough trust in your reads that it must be one of your town players as well. I mean who does that? It makes your read list pointless for one. But it also gives you that "out" almost immediately. It's keeping your options open and agreeing with the concensus without ever planning to put a vote down! Throwing a sprinkling of doubt without ever planning to do anything about it.

The fact you have so many is neither here nor there.

[Porochaz]

I went back through Day 2. I see more why people thought Klick seemed town. My current reads are:

Strong town: Cpol and Postie. Both have several moments where they seem super genuine and to be approaching the game from a town perspective.

Maybe town: CES and Primate. These players read like town to me, but because they both have a more measured playstyle, I'm less confident, and I could imagine either of them pulling this off as scum.

Scummy: Nexus, Wenna and Porochaz. None of these have done anything that seems clearly town to me, apart from having believable reasons for not engaging with the game. But when there are probably 3 scum out there, I'd be happy to vote any of these.

Let's keep going, klick suddenly becomes town, good to know, no explanation as to why. Cpol and Postie have genuine town moments, I agree. In fact I think it's a general consensus at this point.

Ces and Primate have a more measured style so they are harder to read so maybe town. Yep but once again it's very much a leave options open style paragraph. And beyond that my issue is that you find ces hard to read, I know that. But by this point in the game, you would have made a choice either way on him. Rightly or wrongly you would have made an opinion and you haven't.

Then there are the scummy ones. Who are scum because of an absence of having done something clearly town. Which actually could almost be a descriptor for the "maybe town" category as well. Except we have posted as much. For me I think the case is she didn't like my role name much? I don't like using myself as an example, but I think it's useful in showing that these reads are coming from nowhere and for someone actively posting, voting and making lots of read lists I expect a bit more than meh I'll vote for someone who hasn't done something "clearly town"

[Porochaz]

An extra day when we aren't the most active. Don't get me wrong, I would much rather have a Fenchurch execution, Im not sold on a CES one... bleh. But I do think you are right, the way the next day goes is you die during the night and next day we are in the same position without a JK. Where if we hit correctly today then we'd still probably be without you but we could still no execute.

Edited for term replacement - CDB

[Porochaz]

Ok so thank you for that, Postie, I guess we don't no execution. Im still on the Fenwagon as I feel more comfortable there. I am still not convinced of Chris or CES and how they fit with Fenchurch. My worry is that it's not both of them but I definitely think it's Fen.

I think Postie is town, I think Wenna is likely town, there is me, nexus is very firmly in the who the fuck knows territory and I don't see him leaving there, Primate - maybe it's worth reading him again, Chris in isolation feels town... CES... I dont know. I forgot how much I hated this feeling of "we are probably going to lose but there is this sliver of hope". Urgh Im sorry I didn't engage sooner.

And can I profusely apologise I do try and catch myself, but I appear to be very bad at it. Sorry CDB for giving you all the work, I am trying and when I remember I do change it.

[Porochaz]

22 hours from now. I guess I'll be around in the evening, but I won't be around close to deadline Monday morning.

[Porochaz]

So I was way off throughout the whole game, cool.

[Porochaz]

It's odd because I can see fen and CES seperate as scum but not together? Although I think in were leg 1 we had this situation and they won as scum!!

Yep. Thats where I was in my head the whole last part of the day. Sorry Fen, your posts seemed so weird the last day which made me see a case from your previous posts and yeah... I wasn't likely to move once the wagon gained steam. I could have been convinced on Nexus, but yeah I don't think I'd have executed Postie after I looked back. You did really well.

Im sorry by the way for my early lurkiness, as I explained the mechanic of consuls is not one I enjoy, but more than that, I came back to clients having not seen me for a week and whilst all the other people in my team seemed to have clients who wanted to enjoy the sun rather than find a job, mine all wanted meetings, which made for tired Poro after work and a struggle to stay awake enough to get into the game. I hope I made it up for it latterly, although it turned out my reads were more accurate when lurking. I think though we were pretty done for. Menno had to be executed after day 1, it would have always been a distraction and it was super scummy. By with point all our town PR's had died, so it was going to be an uphill battle.

[Porochaz]

I dont know what you are all talking about, I was super townie.