Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Gimli

Hey ppl

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Firewoofer

For claiming scum in the first post

UNVOTE:

The "I may give away one of my allies" comment is slightly.. brazen and weird..... i guess. It doesnt strike me as scummy as firebringers scum claim could be.

It's a level of detail I think he adds in for extra fun when he's actually mafia.

Or did I make it all up.
What if there is no scum PT and I am a serial killer who claims to be the king.
What if I am town who hates being town so i have to pretend to be mafia for the fun of it.

Or what if i am just shit posting.

We may never know.

VOTE: Fire

Okay this is suspicious talk

VOTE: Firebringer

Firebringer/redFF/Lycanfire
One more for the grand slam

I must correct a false misconception by this lowly ant.
There isn't a team of 4 scum in this game.

What we have here is a three man team with one traitor that I don't know about.
See I know this because I am mafia.

I can give you more insight into this setup with my infinite wisdom if you follow my lead.

I suspect the traitor to be Furtive, he seems very traitory as he denounces my leadership.

This is again kind of brazen......... is the word

Now I ask to be named king of this thread. I have already taken over the scum PT by spamming it to death while DATISI forever in how long he takes to start games, sat idly by.

I have a feeling this is something that actually happened

I still kind of find that post suspicious though

mm sorry woofer maybe we can make it page 6

[Morning Tweet]

Morning Tweet voting unvoting and voting again in the same post feels performative.

cant u just be happy ui joined ur wagon

[Morning Tweet]

I ISOed fire whilew riting the post, to answer your question.. i guess? I kind of just write the entire post and don't go back

[Morning Tweet]

Fire's wagon*

I will give u most of the credit for catching yourself

[Morning Tweet]

Ur suspicion is nonsense but Fire latching onto it is scummy

[Morning Tweet]

strike that last thought.
Tweet has commentary in between the posts.

No that is just straight up nonsensical what she just did.

This post

[Morning Tweet]

if yall sick of me claiming scum. I will drop it after page 10.
I am still having fun with it for now though.

I don't mind it. Could be a potential "I claimed scum on page 1 and still won the game" moment for you, but I'm not convinced

Every game is a potential one of those for Fire he holds the site record (its roughly equal to the # of his scumgames). the "I spammed the scum chat to death" line took it over the edge for me, although yes it does sound a bit silly when i phrase it like that. WhY sO sErious

I'm still gonna vote fire because his reaction to Ari pointing out the previous still seems kind of suspicoous/defensive to me. I'm sorry. I make too much out of content, i make nothing out of it... cant win!!!

Spoiler: nonsense

Morning Tweet did nothing wrong. AMA

My mannnn

vindicattiooonnnnn

Thanks i put a lot of effort into the gimli case

exhaled rlly hard

UNVOTE: redFF

I'm no longer convinced he's racist against Dwarves.

Interesting case against Gimli though. There were lots of people posting early and no one was really advancing the game, yet for some reason he only picked on furtive

two things

I know furtive and I know he goes hard early as town. this is uncharacteristic I promise you.

out of all top posters he is the only one who didn't drop a single read in those pages when other people were doing that. he was ignoring the mafia playing parts of the conversation.

check his ISO to see for yourself

Is that true? Even like at the very beginning of D1?

Spoiler: This is a fairly unhelpful tangent about furtive

I will give you that furtive has posted a lot without that much relating to the game, especially proportionally to the rest of the game. Don't know if high post count with low game engagement is necessarily scummy for furtive (from my limited meta I thought he played more background early game as town ACTUALLY I HAVE A GREAT REFERENCE hold on. He was scum in that game and i mistook him for town but, regardless...

viewtopic.php?t=90193&user_select%5B%5D=36433

Furtive is a scum traitor gladiator here. I thought there was juicy self meta that i remembered but it's mostly unrelated to what I wanted exactly. Maybe I'll give my own summary. Furtive seems like the kind of player who is confident in his own reads regardless of thread (in the event he disagrees with the majority). He doesnt strike me as someone who is the loudest in the thread although from my limited experience he's pretty active and has a thread presence

.................i kinda think it's too early to determine who is "going hard". Maybe im wrong but idont think we're there yet. But I do think it's noteworthy he doesn't really have any game-related thoughts come out *at all* in the 21 posts he's made, so mabye on the radar

[Morning Tweet]

It didn't feel uncharacteristic of Morning Tweet's personality to me
Like I think MT does it to amuse herself more than anything

Yes I could have gone back and just voted Fire once after the unvoute but voting him twice was more... yeah, I think amusing';s a good word for it. I don't think that's a bad characterization, I also like to lay out my work and generally not get rido f things

I don't really get whimsical fun townie vibes from her posting unfortunately.

What's your take on it?

You haven't called me fun or whimsical in a game for a very long time

[Morning Tweet]

its our first game together don't be mean

Apologies.

But either way it's starting to grow kind of tiresome as a method of reading me. You say it every game, it's yet to be true as far as I can remember. It's just kind of a bummer

[Morning Tweet]

Well it's a very good read of my intentions by Klick. Maybe informed makes you get there easier. Am I so cryptic? I don't actually suspect Ari I kind of just wanted to get that bit about the fun/whimsy out of my system it's been bugging me.

You're also no longer a good vote IMO x3

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Klick

[Morning Tweet]

MTs posts about Fire makes me think they've never ever met Fire and I'm certain that isn't true

How so?

[Morning Tweet]

I'm still trying to figure out this Morning Tweet change of heart

Well it's a very good read of my intentions by Klick. Maybe informed makes you get there easier.

Here she becomes suspicious of Klick, right after FB put some pressure on him with a vote. Aristeia quickly cast a 2nd vote (with no reason?) and MT does a complete 180 from thinking FB is sus to agreeing with FB about Klick, casting the 3rd vote for him.

You're also no longer a good vote IMO x3

And I still don't know what this means, but if she's suggesting FB isn't a good vote because he already has 3, it would seem odd to jump to a 3rd vote on the Klick wagon. I could be misinterpreting this comment though

The quick change of heart from FB to Klick feels off and its the only minor scum read I've gotten so far

First off, the x3 is a face. Nothing do to with 3's

Other than that I have no comment actually idk. I think FB's read of Klick is towny and I don't really care to hang onto the read much longer since it was about him scumposting, this is stronger than that fer me

[Morning Tweet]

what game does fire not scumclaim in

Yeah but he claimed that he was being a chatterbox in the scumchat which was extra detail and therefore *shifty*

[Morning Tweet]

what game does fire not scumclaim in

You had me worried i was treating fire like an alien or soemthing

[Morning Tweet]

just when i thought i got a decent association read MT throws me a curveball.
i was like yeah Klick scum MT town
Now MT votes with me on Klick.

I go surprirsed pikachu
having whiplash already

MT throwing me through loops

This is the kind of inner turmoil you love to see ppl put through

Wait r u townreading me now or just think im bussing

Your read on Klick being from town is my first actually feeling it read of the game.

That being said I don't share the confidence you have/had. considering I'm voting Klick for reading me immediately correctly mayble too well. Which isn't a crime, but I can see the faint threads of Klick reading my post the way that I had intended it the first time because Klick would have known my intentions already

Mostly though, I think it looks good for you so i really just had to switch my vote anywhere elzse

You're also no longer a good vote IMO x3

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Yup, there you go above

Spoiler: Klick and Fire

It didn't feel uncharacteristic of Morning Tweet's personality to me
Like I think MT does it to amuse herself more than anything

i would also like to point out to the crowd that MT vote and suspicion on me is serious as stated by herself.
Klick characterization of it doesn't hold up to actual scrutiny. So he either isn't paying attention or just looking for ways to call it town because he knows MT is town.

I don't think klick isn't paying attention. I think klick sees town MT voting me and is like "yeah gonna call MT town here while pretending to be solving" and doesn't actually perform the town analysis he would do.

Also I think town klick would have called me out on page 2-3 to be serious and he didn't. Low level analysis equals scum klick.

Wow i am actually super confident in this.

I best not try hard to omuch this early or i will wear myself out.
Back to shit posting.

1. I didn't call MT town for the double vote thing in the first place; I don't currently have a read on MT
2. I didn't say MT's vote wasn't serious; I think her actual vote on you was serious but the vote-unvote-vote again thing was done for fun
3. MT CONFIRMS my read of her doing the double vote largely to amuse herself (as well as the Firebringer vote ultimately being serious suspicion). I literally have the correct read of MT's behaviour. 'Low level analysis' get rekt scrub.

Yes, I don't really think Klick's analysis was surface level. I actually kind of see it the opposite way, it's really good in that they seemed to understand my intent rlly well. that it was jokey and serious at the same time

I spent a lot of time trying to derive a conclusion from this. I think Klick is perfectly capable of making that read as town although I think its one that scum!Klick makes almost every time, is the best way I'd describe it. i wouldnt call it suspicious so much as.. an interesting data point that needs to be examined alongside a broader set of data

[Morning Tweet]

I think ur treating MT like town. You saying she is null makes ur behavior more ???
I think ur treating me like town which is also weird since i think ur vote is still on me.

Like I think first thing u would do and maybe im not a Klick mind reader so you tell me how the fuck i am not right on this. Is you would question if my push isn't just scum pushing u. Instead u chose to argue with me on how my analysis is wrong. Like you didn't question my alignment once in that post.

That's basically the kicker yeah yeah. Klick is kinda hitting a natural 20 in insight in order to conclude that I'm null. So they're defending me but (hypothetically) they shouldn't have too much of a reason to care.

Although counterpoint, I make a lot of defenses that are "I don't think that is scummy but I don't have a reason to townread them either", especially really early, so it's not super ununusual..

I think ur treating MT like town. You saying she is null makes ur behavior more ???
I think ur treating me like town which is also weird since i think ur vote is still on me.

Like I think first thing u would do and maybe im not a Klick mind reader so you tell me how the fuck i am not right on this. Is you would question if my push isn't just scum pushing u. Instead u chose to argue with me on how my analysis is wrong. Like you didn't question my alignment once in that post.

Its weird for u to go:
"No FB I am 100% right about how MT is posting and thinking and how you should analyze these posts" and at same breath go "But MT is null"....like i guess ur just saying u have her personality square pegged....great. What u r trying to go from none of this is alignment telling to this is alignment posting from MT. Or are you just not yet in serious mode.

Why am I the serious one here.

My baseline is to interact with people as though they are town because that's what everyone either is or is pretending to be. I often get the push against me of 'you're interacting with X as though you know they're town' as either alignment. Most of the time it's not helpful to interact with someone directly as though they might be scum because no one has that open to themselves as a possibility as either alignment.

I'm arguing with your analysis to a) defend my own viewpoint and b) flesh yours out. Arguing with analysis is something I often do in the moment. More often than not I solve for alignment in rereading things from a distance, unless I get some sort of really strong vibe read. I don't have confidence in my ability to say the right things to sort for alignment properly mid-conversation.

I don't really hate this explanation and it didn't come off as overly defensive to me like VP mentioned.

I kind of see Klick as being more likely than rand scum but not by much plus I'm more than half of the game back now apparently so

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: morning tweet she is scummiest person so far

you don't usually do that!

I'm fine spending my entire d1 responding things about furtive, he is one of my favorites

speaking of which, he kinda disappeared after page 4, didn't he. I think he is more active than that in general.

Disappeared after page 4? Do you have reason to believe that disappearing after page 4 is suspicious? Or that he even really disappeared at all. The game has been moving fast it feels like you drew furtives name out of the hat. But yes I remember your furtive read the other day and it doesn't bother me so much as perplex me

I skimmed furtive's ISO and I really like it

[Morning Tweet]

i like red, fire, ari........................

....

...

I don't really suspect Klick that much

UNVOTE:

VP seems ever so slightly on the edge of town, hesistant to really do that though, hes good

Yeah, I feel like redFF is a shit wagon because they lack any sense of regard for the playerlist. I can count 8 instances where they are actively pissing someone off.

I'm happy to change course on this because I don't love it, but Taly has been vote parking all day after inserting themselves into Firebringer/MT. I'd say there were three instances where we broke out of RVS, and Taly was at the tail end of it and has stayed there. VOTE: Taly

I've been mulling over the couple of pages where Ali and Lycanfire talk and do the thing. It goes on for a really longh time. Someone said they found it suspicious ... it struck me as kind of weird how many posts it goes on for but I mean I know ALi hyperposts

@Lycanfire

., what were the instances where we broke out of RVS that you noticed? I'm actually incredibly curious to hear about this.

I think the way Cakez responded to Ari's reaction to cakesz vote (873 and on) was believable. As in, cakez seems towny. But I dont think he's right

I love the red post analyzing Cakez. Reds posts scream town to me

Spoiler: Ali and Fire posts

im starting ot think ali is scum

I would think I was a wolf too tbh

r u trying to jokingly play it off?
i am kind of serious here but i haven't yet put the words to make a case im gut scumreading u right now

no if I'm a wolf I'm playing badly right now. I literally think I make these exact movements if I am a wolf except maybe I aim to keep red in the elimination pool. Only difference between what is happening and what I would do as a wolf.
I'm not a wolf.

this feels made up like whered does keeping red in hte elimination pool even come from how do you know you'd be playing the same as scum why are u thinking so m,uch abt this

Spoiler: Lycanfire posts

Yeah, I feel like redFF is a shit wagon because they lack any sense of regard for the playerlist. I can count 8 instances where they are actively pissing someone off.

I'm happy to change course on this because I don't love it, but Taly has been vote parking all day after inserting themselves into Firebringer/MT. I'd say there were three instances where we broke out of RVS, and Taly was at the tail end of it and has stayed there. VOTE: Taly

Taly said he was blocking the site until Monday. does that change your read?

No it doesn't change my read. The only thing that would have me revise it is more content or having someone read them better.

I agree withr the redFF comment but like, how can you consider Taly in RVS? I took this comment as face value at first becaus i only remember the Fire/Taly/MT stuff but ISOing Taly and looking at their 4th to last post reveals:

Spoiler: taly quote

{taly}

{fire/cakez/ali/black}

{csf/red/peta}

{gimli/furtive/ari}

{klick/vp/mist}

{asri/lycan/mt}

{fucking datisi}

probably 1, (hopefully fucking not 2), wolves in top 3 categories

17p has 4, maybe even 5 mafia right?

Tally had seemingly formed amn opinion on pretty much every player

The vote parking comment is fair until you consider that (me i think) is being voted by taly and im at the bottom of their reads even in the last of his 50ish posts.

And the V/LA since whenever thing.

I'm confused what you're suspecting Taly for *exactly* or expecting your vote on Taly to *do*.

Spoiler: reads

town

red
Fire

heavy town

Taly - reminded me of other games, lines up with how i expect taly to play so far
Ari
SirCakez

lean town

Klick
VP Baltar
furtiveglance (i skimmed and I dont have anything like the opinion I expressed before (which was mostly a response to Gimli IIRC). He comes across towny, probably very. I don't have reasoning though


-------

Dont know

petapan/Gimli/Asri (I haven't gotten around to reading enough of any of you 3's posts)
Cat Scratch (i think they might be onto something with Lycanfire)

Sort of suspect

Mistyx (bad read of me and probably on ari, ISO is sparse, nothing i townread, But could be just a slow start. I almost didn't bother reading the game when i saw how many pages there were to read)

Suspect

Ali
Lycanfire

VOTE: Lycanfire

[Morning Tweet]

Black is also I don't know but not for a lack of content, or even a lack of noticing, its just that their posts were just on the heavier side for me Lol. I didn't even realize i forgot

I may as well

Oh my fucking god I remember

Spoiler: Mild furtive case

I'm getting bad vibes from furtive after finally giving myself time to ISO him. There is some correlation here with my minor suspicions of Ari, and now I'm not so sure about Fire.

actually yeah I think [Aristeia's] early progression on Fire was towny

This is furtive's most recent comment, and what led me to do the ISO in the first place. He made this revelation after I questioned him about his reaction to SirCakes voting for Aristeia (#638). Furtive came running to Ari's defense in #638 once SirCakes voted for her for "having 0 town posts in her entire ISO" (#611). This was the first time Furtive has communicated any reads on Ari, even though he was given the chance to earlier in the game. I'll get to that in a second. But first I want to emphasize here that Furtive's reasoning for calling SirCake's vote "unfair" is that Ari in fact

did

have a town post in her ISO, and it was her first post in the game, during the joke phase: #66

Not having your ducks in a row reads-wise (like, not really being organized about what you feel and instead just going with what you think at the time) always comes across as towny to me. Also, #638 was NOT furtive's first post about Ari, he expresses a townlean in #497 -- but yes, he didn't elaborate on that till later.

This is the only town post Furtive can reference in all of Ari's ISO? This leads me to the beginning of the game. Furtive got some pretty unjustified heat for not providing any reads, but when he defended himself, he said he didn't have any: #282. Here Furtive says he "didn't have anything to comment on" and "if I see something I'll say something." We now know he thought the Ari vote on Fire was towny, so why wouldn't he say something about it here? His only read in #282 is that his initial vote against Fire was serious and that "Fire would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town." Keep in mind here that Furtive admits he thinks Fire is kind of scummy.

This feels nitpicky, you could say the same about any read ever, couldn't you? Like, "if you thought X was towny why didn't you say it at the timE?" could apply to a huge amount of players and reads probably. And if your point is that he said he felt it was towny back then, it feels a bit nitpicky to pin someone over exactly when they got a townread, at least in this instance

Furtive's next notable move is to switch his vote from Fire to the Klick wagon in #303. Furtive's vote is the 4th vote on the wagon Klick wagon, which was started by Fire, followed by Aristeia and Morning Tweet. The scumread against Klick was essentially non-existent and boiled down to Klick guessing MT's intentions correctly. It's strange to me that Furtive would vote Klick here, especially considering he should have gotten a townread from Klick from #81. Furtive thinks Ari's vote on Fire was towny, but not Klick's?

You know who else voted for Fire early? RedFF, in #86. What's notable here is that both Klick and redFF appear at the very bottom of Furtive's Scum List. Aristeia is in the middle of the list, despite Furtive admitting recently that he had a townread on her from her Fire vote. I'm confused why Furtive didn't townread Klick and RedFF for their Fire votes. And Fire, interestingly enough, is at the top of the list, despite Furtive being suspicious of him earlier. The only thing that changed was Fire's weak case against Klick. That was apparently enough to move Fire from the bottom of the list to the top?

I think your argument goes something along the lines of "Why don't furtive's reads match the votes exactly?" And I feel like that is an easy question to answer, just because someone is voting for a scumread you have or agrees on a townread that you have, doesn't make them town. Why *should* furtive townread them for joining him, rather than suspecting them for bussing? I get that this changes on a case by case basis but my point is that reads and votes dont always line up, a mismatch doesnt necessarily indicate scum. I actually probably lean it indicates town more because again I think scum reads the game in a more simple and static way. Like for instance "I should townread these players because they are voting for my scumread" and "I should scumread this person because they are disagreeing with my expressed reads"

Furtive's Scum List:

Sorry for ruining the game by ending it so early because my reads are that good

{Datisi}

{FireKinger, SirCakez, Taly, VP Baltar}

{Alisae, Aristeia, Gimli, Morning Tweet, Mistyx}

{Asri Teroka, Lycanfire, petapan}

{Black, CSF}

{Klick, redFF}

{My new avatar}

Black could have endgamed in a historic win but I had to stop that

I don't like this flip on Fire, especially when both Fire and Furtive have openly discussed how Fire would play as scum. And it just so happens Fire is actually playing that way. Bold is my emphasis:

I don't know - I had thoughts, my vote on Firebringer wasn't a joke, but it's not the strongest read either -

just that I think he would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town

. Whether or not I 'go hard' also can depend on my current mood and schedule as well

We would all do better to take an internet forum game less seriously. I approve of this mentality.
I can also vibe with the not letting team down thing,

its the only thing that kind of sucks about playing scum. But then I eventually figure my team wants to have more fun than to win or at least they should. So then i don't feel so bad about when im playing bad as scum

if everyone took my philisophy of playing mafia and just ran with it.
Everyone would enjoy the game.

But then the number of scum claiming in games would probably break the game

and we would all be hunting players who try to even pretend to be townie. Would either be horrifying or interesting to see.

I found these three comments interesting. Furtive admits that Fire would enjoy posting the way he did at the beginning of the game moreso if he were scum. And Fire admits that he doesn't like to let his team down when playing scum, but that his team would rather have fun than win, so he still feels good about doing things like scumclaiming as scum. In the second quote from Fire, he's saying more people would enjoy the game if they scumclaimed as scum. If Fire eventually flips wolf (which, again, I'm not sure of and it probably depends on furtive's/Ari's alignment), this will be read as Fire trying to excuse his early game actions.

Furtive's next big move is to leave the Klick wagon in #590 and vote for redFF, conveniently right after Fire abandons it in #502 to also vote for redFF.

tis i, Radiance

Scumclaim Radiance. Nice.

Klick you're looking radiant

You like to mention Radiant a lot. Is it on your mind from your role PM?

Which Hollow Knight characters do people think are mafia

Are we even allowed to talk about it

I don't like this comment

MT is Town Taly that vote sucks!

I don't like this either. How are you so sure?

Klick is maf, all town wagon, game solved D1

Talking to the town here eh? Trying to get them to wagon Klick off of a swiss-cheese argument?

All of these things, combined with the gut feelings I get from some of his other comments, have made furtive is my top wolf candidate. If I end up being right about this, my attention will turn to Ari and Fire.

VOTE: furtiveglance

Mild case my ass

This seems genuine from Black though. I like furtive still, but just a lean

[Morning Tweet]

I gave up on responding to that after a while lol but it feels to me like Black is confirm biasing themself, it seems towny

I think the way Cakez responded to Ari's reaction to cakesz vote (873 and on) was believable. As in, cakez seems towny. But I dont think he's right

what do you mean?

Certainly

VOTE: aristeia this is the wagon we should be doing she literally has made 0 town posts in her entire ISO

your comments are not even remotely accurate and i realize ive been too lax recently in terms of being overly nice to people who push me for completely nonsensical reasons unrooted in reality.

wow this is certainly a reasonable and townie way to react

ok yeah done reading and the scummiest person in the game is still clearly Aristeia. that was one of the worst reactions to a vote i've ever seen.

Like, this is a terrible read from Cakez IMO but he's so sure of it it comes across like he believes it

And then the double-down to your fairly mundane reaction somehow confirming you as scum in Cakez eyes. It's like Cakez is seeing something that isn't there. Which is why I believe that he does see something, he had some kind of interpretation, it seemed genuine

It also seems ridiculously towny because I think Cakez would have gathered that people are townreading Ari and probably would have looked into your posts further before going all in like he did. This is a great way to get attyention and gain nothing. At least how I'm reading it.

Like, the only two game-related posts from Ari are these?

Taly feels really town

i feel the best about TRing Ali, Gimli & Taly

i think klick vpb & redff are all fine places to vote.

id tr firebringer but i dont want him to get mad at me.

the entirety of Ari's scumhunting everyone

Like what???? What happened to the whole section with fire and me?? That felt, at least somewhat noticable. Or the klick wagon.

IDK it feels like Cakez is targetting you because of a reason that makes sense to him and him only. That's my reasoning. I could also just not understand what he finds scummy about you lol

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Klick reads post

TOWN

Morning Tweet

Black
Asri Teroka
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
Cat Scratch Fever
Aristeia
furtiveglance
Alisae
VP Baltar

NULL
redFF
Gimli
Mistyx
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
{Lycanfire, SirCakez}

SCUM

Considered thoughts are closer to here

The whole list is ordered

At this point petapan being leaning scum is kind of a meme but I like it anyway

How do you know I'm town with such confidence? I also will come back to the strong Asri townread probably later when reading them

SIRCAKEZ [5]: Aristeia, Alisae, Klick, Cat Scratch Fever, Asri Teroka
LYCANFIRE [2]: Firebringer, Morning Tweet

I liked the Lycanfire wagon better

Klick is there some asri thing I'm missing? I feel like I trust you most here, but that's a wild read

Asri seems fairly under suspicion, it's a very., notable read

I'd really like him to explain why he's townreading Cakez though.

I've had thoughts on this since last night but I went to sleep instead of responding.

Basically, I think my Cakez townread was poor. Early in Cakez's posting I thought his forwardness and willingness to bring a lot of opinions to the table was towny. I think this was biased somewhat by comparing him to Lycanfire in my head and thinking, 'well Cakez is being pretty free with his reads and Lycan isn't doing anything so if there's a scum between them it's more likely to be Lycan.' Which isn't a well-thought-out point.
In my last reads list I brought Cakez down a bit because I kinda realised this but still wanted to give credit to my initial gut ping.

I think ultimately I townread what you are scumreading. I ISO'd Cakez late last night and felt pretty similarly to you, that what he was doing could pretty easily be scum projecting false confidence. I don't feel strongly about it but with you saying it's his scum meta I kinda want to sheep you on it.

I'm just not really *feeling* it

The group consensus has all but lost me now.

VOTE: Asri Teroka

Hahahaha

Spoiler: alisae, cakez wagon

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

pedit: hmmmmmmmmm

VOTE: cakez

fuck the busy work I'll just sheep and see where it goes

This cakez wagon

*smells*

Spoiler: aristia on cakez

for example look at his push on me from WF just a few weeks ago[we were both town]

Spoiler: Cakes pushing me in WF

even though it's wrong in terms of my alignment it at least

makes sense

and has nuanced thoughts about how scum!ari approaches a game and a comparison to a prior game that he saw me play as scum and similarities included.

Here he's just making shit up that's not even factual - it's like a turd sandwich that he thought would look good or something.

Like also if he got my alignment wrong in that game why does he suddenly think he can read me very accurately now?

Well Cakez backed down now

Idk I'm on team "I think he botched the read, probably"

bad read of me and probably on ari

why do you think my read on ari is probably bad?

Think I used "probably" because nonzero chance Ari is scum, I still reserve some of that. But I feel like Ari is playing to her town playstyle -- ala the way they read me/fb and then cakez. That's not really an explanation so much as it feels similar to the way Ari engages me typically. I alsothink they've been one of th emore proactive players so this:

hi im playing pokemon but i caught up

VOTE: Ari

wanna go here rn i think decent odds this is scum struggling to make serious content

Just feels not true to me, it's a foreign read of the thread to me.

I like my Lycanfire vote just fine but I'd vote Asri if only to compete with Cakez wagon. And i dont like any of asri's stated scumreads really, and also

also lycan is a player we want to not eliminate on d1 because he is strong

I got the impression he was a strong town player at least from anothjer game i saw. But I feel like that is an argument that works against him not towards him. If I remember right, he made a point to read most every player quickly and generally had a stronger thread prescence tthan here + I feel like he's been somewhat suspiciously (can't put it any other way) jokey.

Spoiler: reads

town


Fire


heavy town

Ari
SirCakez
furtiveglance
red - I am losing the scent on their recent posts i totally disagree. Which in of itself isn't that problematic (I think Ari's meta case is the only somewhat sympathetic reason to vote Cakes in my own opinion of course). But I wavered a little


lean town

Taly
Klick
VP Baltar


-------

Dont know

petapan/Gimli/Cat Scratch

Sort of suspect

Mistyx
Asri
Ali - I dont have any good reason to suspect Ali, although I do

Suspect

Lycanfire

pedit: Hmmm

VOTE: Lycanfire

what are you doing?

I don't dislike the Lycan wagon as much as I do the Cakez one or Mistyxx one

vote for an actual scumread of yours

I think lycan didn't do anything scummy and it's a LHF slot, so I don't like that you're voting there cause it feels like you're testing waters. I know you're probably just being town and trying to go to a place that feels good but since you just voted CSF this gave me pause

What do you mean he's LHF??? Where's thjat coming from? He's *suspicious*. That's the word I would use. You're using LHF like a total buzzword he is NOT LHF i will NOT concede this point he is playing ODD

[Morning Tweet]

I was gonna cry about the red wagon but on second thought, I think it potentially illuminating

[Morning Tweet]

MT what yer laffin for

(Why laugh at my Asri vote)

I think I forgot to finish that thought..

i found your reaction kind of funny. But I don't disagree. I was completely lost when CSF joined the Cakez wagon after Klick. I don't see what anyone else is seeing with Cakez (BARRING maybe the "Exert false bravado" meta shit as something that Cakez might do as scum)

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: gimli at cakez

was someone pushing me?

no but there is going to be very soon with your current play

I've been defending you

why don't you search for scum inside your wagon instead of on one of the only people who are actually townreading you?

why don't you search for scum inside your wagon instead of on one of the only people who are actually townreading you?

wtf? this post is scummy af. you dont get towncred just for defending me

okay you do you

but let me go back to this question: do you think your wagon has scum in it? if yes, who?

Gimli feels a bit extra betrayed here, it sort of feels like scum who knows the cakez wagon is off but then cakez goes at him anyway and it's like WHAT. I guess that was an obvious possible conclusion that's already been brought up though. The "I've been defending you." post doesn't exactly sit right

SIRCAKEZ [6]: Aristeia, Alisae, Klick, Cat Scratch Fever, Asri Teroka, redFF

I promise you there is scum in this wagon

how are you so certain on this? who are the scum here?

big wagon with thin reasoning behind, early trenders are towny but the late people in it are sketchy slots, seems you're getting piled on

do you seriously need other people to tell you there's scum in your wagon? do you think you're being wagoned by six townies instead? I'm perplexed you're picking this post of mine, out of all the posts I made, to be sus on. if you're town you must certainly share my line of reasoning here??? like

Something about this "It's pointless to be examining me when there's 4 people voting for you" feels not true, like you're implying Cakez having a suspicion on you can't exist with cakez also suspecting ppl wagoning him. But can't he do both? It's not like suspecting you closes off the possibility of there being scum on the wagon.

Also, of course, ditto on the "It could be 6 townies yes" point as well

why don't you search for scum inside your wagon instead of on one of the only people who are actually townreading you?

i now want to vote this because this looks like scum mad over a failed pocket

okay but don't you think it's strange that the guy is being piled on but picks my posts to be suspicious about? I'm a little flabbergasted, IDK what to make of it

I guess this is the heart of the issue. Are you really implying because 6 ppl are voting Cakez, then him expressing a suspicion on you is strange? It doesn't feeel that weird. But I'm willing to hear more about this

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: not super important comment onBlack/Ari

which post were you shocked by ?

Her moving me from towncore to likely wolf in the span of a couple minutes

I don't understand why this is shocking to you.

if it's wolf!ali repositioning herself to counter your push by shading/discrediting you as scum as you allege, wouldn't it be expected almost?

Whaaat? Are you saying you presume every single you suspect to be scum at all times? I think Black is equivocating "strange/shocking/unusual" behaviour with "scummy" or "suspicious", but here you're treating it like "unexpected". Correct me if I'm wrong but this feels like an entirely semantic objection

I read through the rest of the exchange and trying to read through Ari's posts feels like massively overthinking this

VOTE: mistyxx

I could do this.

Someone at some point today said the previous redFF wagon was instructive. Maybe Morning Tweet? I'd be curious what was learned there.

Potentially illuminating! Yes, I was wavering on redFF being town but i was hoping that they might go under pressure for... hm..... allow me to get it

Spoiler: redff on cakez

My own take on the cakez wagon is that I kind of like what ari is saying, and that meta read doesn't seem crazy to me. Cakez is not great at scum from what I've seen (I love you cakez!), though others on this site seem to be able to vibe him much better than me.

If ari is town, the wagon comp isn't terrible either outside asri, which could be bussing if cakez flipped scum.

lmfao

that is such a fucking scummy post

that is such a fucking scummy post

how so

VOTE: sircakez
I buy ari's meta read and i was gonna vote last night but wanted to see what he came back to the thread with. He's reading like frustrated scum. And the jump on ari for "no content" was arbitrary, feels like he coulda picked a number of people to go at for no content.

I just don't read Cakez this way at all, kind of lost the thought syncing i was having going on

cakez wagon seems to have lost momentum without him really doing anything?

I dont like this either, feels like making a problem/suspicion out of nothing to me.

I scrolled through the whole way back and it seems like the only other person to vote red since the original gimli/furtive is Mistyx.. so not exactly a lot of pressure

I'm not sure what to make of Gimli vs Red still

I like Misty's recent posting scores more than her earlier posting, I think. That being said i dont see red/gimli as s/s, I think just 1 scum possibly

Spoiler: gimli response

was someone pushing me?

no but there is going to be very soon with your current play

I've been defending you

why don't you search for scum inside your wagon instead of on one of the only people who are actually townreading you?

why don't you search for scum inside your wagon instead of on one of the only people who are actually townreading you?

wtf? this post is scummy af. you dont get towncred just for defending me

okay you do you

but let me go back to this question: do you think your wagon has scum in it? if yes, who?

Gimli feels a bit extra betrayed here, it sort of feels like scum who knows the cakez wagon is off but then cakez goes at him anyway and it's like WHAT. I guess that was an obvious possible conclusion that's already been brought up though. The "I've been defending you." post doesn't exactly sit right

SIRCAKEZ [6]: Aristeia, Alisae, Klick, Cat Scratch Fever, Asri Teroka, redFF

I promise you there is scum in this wagon

how are you so certain on this? who are the scum here?

big wagon with thin reasoning behind, early trenders are towny but the late people in it are sketchy slots, seems you're getting piled on

do you seriously need other people to tell you there's scum in your wagon? do you think you're being wagoned by six townies instead? I'm perplexed you're picking this post of mine, out of all the posts I made, to be sus on. if you're town you must certainly share my line of reasoning here??? like

Something about this "It's pointless to be examining me when there's 4 people voting for you" feels not true, like you're implying Cakez having a suspicion on you can't exist with cakez also suspecting ppl wagoning him. But can't he do both? It's not like suspecting you closes off the possibility of there being scum on the wagon.

Also, of course, ditto on the "It could be 6 townies yes" point as well

why don't you search for scum inside your wagon instead of on one of the only people who are actually townreading you?

i now want to vote this because this looks like scum mad over a failed pocket

okay but don't you think it's strange that the guy is being piled on but picks my posts to be suspicious about? I'm a little flabbergasted, IDK what to make of it

I guess this is the heart of the issue. Are you really implying because 6 ppl are voting Cakez, then him expressing a suspicion on you is strange? It doesn't feeel that weird. But I'm willing to hear more about this

I think defending myself is pointless cause this is all dumb but I'll note one thing: the "I've been defending you" bit is to cakez saying what I'm posting is gonna get me scumread. Note that he was throwing shade at me already with the "this is scum who is afraid he'll be scumread for lack of posting" bit, I ask him who's scumreading me and he says that. So I point to cakez, like, what I've been doing since that post, and yes I do think it's absolutely nuts that he doesn't have the intuition to check on his wagon first before throwing random shit at me.

But I don't feel that interaction is "weird", I've come to terms that cakez might be scum, there's scum bussing him which is why I was alarmed by the wagon, which is also why my instinct was to defend him and townread him. It's dumb but it's how I was reading the game before.

I think it was CSF who showed cakez' poor progression on Ari, from scumreading to admitting poor understanding of her posts, to scumreading again. I felt his position wrt me was similarly unidimensional now, cause it went from throwing shade due to my self aware inactivity to throwing more shade and flat out call me open wolfing!! For thinking there's scum in his wagon and it being a weird wagon.

pedit: Mulling over Gimli's response still

I'm just not sure *why* Cakez should "have the intuition" to check his wagon rather than go for you. But ultimately not a super huge deal

I will look at CSF on Cakez about Ari.

Spoiler: this, right?

i still think Ari is scummy and there's prolly a scum or two inside (CSF, Asri, Red)

Why do you still think Ari is scum? you seem to have conceded that your points for scumreading her were not good

I would posit that scum her would be more focused on arguing over reasons for scumreading.

ok but I feel like that's exactly what is happening. like the posts I just replied to her on were her debating on her meta and asking me to elaborate on my reasons for SRing her. it feels like she's mad I came for her so early off of not that much.

why would scum her be mad at u for coming at her with not much.

idk about u but when i am scum and i see a weak ass push by town on me with not much i laugh. I don't get mad.

i guess okay

ugh Fire and Ari are actually making good points

im moving my vote this post pinged me a bit ago

Sorry I zoned out of this game and there's a lot of pages to read now, I'll pretty much do it later

this feels like scum worried about being pushed for not posting

VOTE: gimli

tweet's opening felt super forced and ungenuine

110 and especially 187

if you think 110 was forced and ungeniune - how do you miss that I immediately push her on 110 in

the very next post

111.

Why do you say that I'm not scumhunting when my thoughts are literally the same as yours are purported to be at that point in time and I am interacting in real time to push the same point that you make?

yeah yeah okay i fucked up

that is not a bad point, why would Cakez even suspect Ari still as of 1507?

At least though, he's not really doing anything proactively about it. Mistyx and Gimli were both votes and Cakez hasn't ever explained why he suspects Ari leading me to believe he doesnt have reasoning so maybe it's one of those gut reads that sits shelved for a while

Mmm I think ultimately Cakez isn't really suspecting Ari the same way he was, but that does involve speculation on my part to get there since he doesn't say himself. I can see why you would come to the conclusion that his progression is incoonsistent although it doesnt read that way to me.

[Morning Tweet]

Overall, I'm still a bit suspicious of Gimli. Mostly for the reasons peta has already stated. It's a little suspicious

IDK if cakez' push on me now is towny

it's a bit too over the top

This also comment also struck me as disingenuine, just now. Something about it

Ughhh I see the beats where Sircakez is over the top though, and rereading the interaction, it sort of makes sense from town!Gimli getting betrayed by town!Cakez too. Cakez indeed went *super hard*. It does sort of seem like bewilderment would make sense

Imma reflect on this. I still do not like Gimli presuming scum on Cakez wagon it feels a little manipulative (like in 1486 it feels like you're making this up to justify why it's ridiculous for Cakez to come at you while you're defending him)

[Morning Tweet]

Regarding MT's response on my furtive case. I just noticed she commented inside my spoiler tags. I legit missed that the first time and thought the only thing she had to say about it was "mild case my ass" haha

LMFAO that didn't occur to me to probablymention the response, I've been on a crazxxy spoiler tag spree this game. My bad

[Morning Tweet]

ActionDan is still reading pages that don't matter to me, aka the mne and fire spat. As much as I want to give him extra time, i disagree with red/cakez limz and i think that lycanfire is a realistic shot at scum soooooooo feels in my best interest

But I guess there's 8 days. I guess then, Dan has plentyo f time to potentially stun us with his town panache

On one hand I feel pretty checked out of the general goings on in this thread

On the other hand 'let's compromise somewhere' sounds like how town dies D1 and I don't -dislike- redFF

On the third hand town probably dies D1 anyway

Not a good reason to compromise! Fight!

I skimmed Lycan's ISO and it still reads scum to me! But I don't have many new points, mostly due to how there isnt any new content

Spoiler: The initial Taly read

hey i caught up

Vote count, unofficial 1.06
17 votes, 9 to lim (expired on 2023-02-17 17:05:00) time until night

redFF

(3): Gimli, furtiveglance, Cat Scratch Fever

Aristeia

(3): Lycanfire, SirCakez, Black

Lycanfire

(3): Klick, Firebringer, Alisae

VP Baltar

(2): Mistyx, petapan

Morning Tweet

(1): Taly

Klick

(1): Morning Tweet

Asri Teroka

(1): VP Baltar

Alisae

(1): redFF

SirCakez

(1): Aristeia

Not voting

(1): Asri Teroka

player notes

movement
VPB->redFF->Aristeia
common voters
Black from redFF -> Aristeia
CSF VPB->redFF
because of unvotes, we're sitting at 5 vanity wagons. the bottom three are true vanity.

Taly said he was blocking the site until Monday. does that change your read?

No it doesn't change my read. The only thing that would have me revise it is more content or having someone read them better.

This is the first unusual bit. I responded to that in 948

Spoiler: Lycanfire on Taly, later

At work right now. Let's push this along a bit.

I feel the three points we broke out of RVS were (1) redff on gimli ("serious vote"), misty on VPB (gave a reason), and Taly on MT. I liked Taly the least, because they had high confidence and it happened right after VPB received two votes on the same page.

this is a mild reply compared to what i anticipated

Doesn't really track with posts like

MT was too mild against my conviction, it doesnt alleviate my scumread

If we talk conviction, conviction is hammering scum to the wall when you've caught them... not make a catty remark and let them exit the thread.

unless someone refutes my vote I see no reason to consider other options at this moment

Conviction level: no other option. No new content and no work being done to get some, either.

I was trying to get some reactions with the move on Taly. I have a misgiving about how furtive likes them and I really dont have any meaningful experience with Taly (I was on an alt with them in a large game that I think I flaked out on, few years back.)

This took me a while to understand. I see -- Lycanfire is saying that Taly's use of the word "conviction" is objectionable, at best their shade merely grazed the edges of my fur and, more than likely, bounced out of my head immediately. Still, it feels like a bit of a semantic objection -- I think Taly's point is that he expected me to be "less mild" in response to his suspicion, probabnly because he thinks that he's onto something and im trying to play it off.

Interestingly i do get the impression that Taly feels super sure about the read and feels that his conviction should be more reaction-worthy. Which then, in that interpretation, the word "conviction" does make sense if you just think of it as "Taly really believes it" rather than "Taly is trying hard to really pressure me"

Would have liked to talk this out more

Spoiler: pages 32-33

It's an avi takeover

I made it red so we're even right?

redFF I know this is sudden but I really want to get to know you

Specifically something very personal

Do you have a special read? You know, a feeling for another player in this thread. It's okay to say it this is a non judgmental area.

Truly the blursed timeline

Let's compare notes. What's your read on peta ali?

okay ya i don't think my read really changes.

I can't identify Peta's agenda if he's a wolf so I'm happy to call it town for now. Still something that's being played out in the moment though. His VP push doesn't seem like a push that comes from a wolf so far?

I was mainly asking because you mentioned you said he was easy to read.

What do you think of 710? I thought this was pretty townie, but I was going off of tone. I'm not XxTonereader420xX so my opinion probably means shit.

Glorious page

This just feels super off to me! It's, stilted. The jokey tone feels suspect, the interuptions to ask Ali and red about random particular reads feels without aim

This is much much different from the (1) other game i've seen lycanfire in. Much different. But I'll look at the game to make sure I'm not misremembering

viewtopic.php?t=90204&user_select%5B%5D=28041

Just scroll through the D1 beginning, that's all i was there for anyway. See what I mean? Very different, like a different player. Could be the density of this game though, that was also a large game but I dont remember if the D1 went this fast.

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Gimli

[Morning Tweet]

No, 2023 changed my mind. I do that as scum virtually every game

VOTE: ActionDan

pedit: Feels like TSQ is trying to gotcha Black over nothing in that post, tsq's point is that Black is doing something purposeless but it feels nitpicky

I waffledd because GImli's string of posts and voting Cakez + peta voting him for it,, but I kind of think Dan is still a good shot at scum. But I'm sorto f wondering about Gimli

Anyone who is taking Fire's strikeout thing overly seriously, it feels like a distraction to me, the cold hard votes are always more interesting

[Morning Tweet]

if I had to guess which one of Gimli/RedFF is a wolf I would say Gimli because he was the guy that was like "let lycan cook" all throughout d1

LFMAFO

[Morning Tweet]

I thought TSQ and *neurons firing* .... the other person that replaced in.......... fireisred were both towny when i read the end of day. Not like as strong as could be but both players i remember thinking both were very solid

ALi also i think is showing emself to be obviosuly town now, Whoops i was wrong about em, I did a little dance after the dan flip though

I sort of thought something about Misty was towny ?? But I bounced between Asri/Misty/Gimli (settling on Gimli as scummiest) as my scum picks

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Gimli

[Morning Tweet]

Anything needed of me

[Morning Tweet]

Peta conftown
Ari conftown
Furtive conftown
Firebringer essentially conftown due to claiming a role that never ever endgames

Both Ari and Firebringer are essentially cops
The game is all but over

Nice

[Morning Tweet]

Cakez flips makes me obvtown lmfao

This is the impression I had

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: TSQ

[Morning Tweet]

Whoops, slept right through that last one

If I were a lone estran ged mafia i would probably shoot myself

I'm a babysitter

[Morning Tweet]

Let me think..

Night one, offensively targetted Gimli

Night two, defensively targetted Alisae because Sircakez lim obvtowned em

Night three, defensively targetted Ari

Night four, I targeted Fire

[Morning Tweet]

I targetted Gimli with the intent to kill him if i died

Every other time i used my ability i knew iw asnt going to die so just healed

[Morning Tweet]

My role is gated, I am out. I was bouncing on claiming that bit but I guess that doesn't.. really matter considering the no kills. A protective isn't necessary

I don't really have a grasp on the situation other than Fire's role is investigative in nature and is holding mafia from killing

[Morning Tweet]

3-shot

The fourth target on FB was when I learned that i was oblivious to the restriction. I did try to target him.

[Morning Tweet]

The last person who used this claim of 'defensive' use of killing NAs was ranger with a bullshit claim as scum in the 2019 game. This same dual doctor/killing role thingie. My first instinct is that I don't really buy it.

What?

[Morning Tweet]

I have an innocent result on me? You should be trusting me a lot more. Gimli's probably scum

[Morning Tweet]

I guess that's not an inno.

[Morning Tweet]

Hm, fair, that's pretty metal

[Morning Tweet]

Black why are you so suspicious of FB in the hood?

[Morning Tweet]

Oh jeez

[Morning Tweet]

so our choices are:

MT is a Traitor who inherited a NK and is now killing
Firebringer is not a hider and is just stalling for laughs? Maybe can doublekill? Dayvig? very powerful special ability that can win in 4p endgame?
Klick - all scum hood and outted hood voluntarily and buried cakez
Gimli - vended two vig shots to town and started to kill on N5

Um who do you feel the best about

I would guess me out of the three lmfao

[Morning Tweet]

Out of all the remaining options it's probably Klick because everyone else is throwing for scum with their role as far as I can tell

I'm the babysitter klick.

Gimli->Alisae->Ari

[Morning Tweet]

Gimli seems towny when he's explaining why it's me on previous page.x

fireisred mayyyybe? But also don't see why

I'll come back and look at how Klick aand..... I don't really have any o5her suspects but I guess Klick/fire/Gimli's interactions with scum would help.

[Morning Tweet]

MT i actually want u to try hard today. Can u do that for me?

Is this my last one? Sure

After classes though

[Morning Tweet]

I wouldnt hold your breath for something particularly insightful but I am flattered

[Morning Tweet]

Klick would be sabotaging Dan and Cakez. He did believe Cakez' claim and asked for the pressure off of cakez. But then Cakez got killed anyway

Also Klick caved in on Alisae despite townreading em. Idk why

But Klick generally pretty consistently has been working against scum.

I wonder if the last player is a traitor or something, to explain how they've worked so well in concert with the town.

[Morning Tweet]

Fire, of course you're correct. I made you different in that post intentionally. At that point I wasn't sure if I wanted to mention I was out of shots so I structured the post like that

[Morning Tweet]

MT can u go over everything that happened in hood with u and rest of dead townies?
I feel like there could be something there.

Absolutely.

Grimme Troupe (Black + Peta)

Black knew he was going to die. He said well-played to me if scum, but also said I should have been replaced so im a little confused what exactly he was saying about me.

Peta said that smart cash money $$$ is on Klick, he thinks.

Black questioned whether Klick was trying to find scum -- pointing out for instance that Klick votes for wagons even if he thinks they're town (Alisae for instance). He concluded off with saying that he thinks it's either FB or Klick, but expressed dissatisfaction with himself

I agreed with Black regarding the Alisae point (I thought E was obvtown immediately after the cakez flip, so much so i healed em) but I dont think he could tell what i was saying lol.

Petapan says that he's been turned off to the game for a while (mood) but thinks from gameplay and role perspective, klick made the most sense

Black said that he didn't understand why scum isn't killing Firebringer.

-----

My lingering questions:

The Firefluffer problem

Why isn't scum killing Firebringer? I understand that he hides behind people and clears them somehow -- so... why no kill that. The obvious answer to that would be "He's hiding".

i can hide behind someone to prevent my death. if they die that night i die.
alternatively if i hide behind someone who is performing a kill, i will die instead of their target.

Ah. That's a supremely good role, isn't it? Now that you've claimed that last bit and turned it into an investigative

But in order to do that, you have to announce your targets. So why hasn't scum shot one of those targets and killed Fire? Black's last thoughts and my own at this point.

Even if the target is nullish/scummy, it's more than worth it to shoot Firewoofer too. From what i can tell after he claimed, he said he'd hide behind either FireR or redFF.

Fire's role isn't gated like everyone else's. And it's so good. Get rid of him. Why aren't they?

It was a 50/50 shot, so scum couldn't kill him for sure, they had to guess between FireR/redFF (he didnt indicate which he was picking). So that could be why. Would be disastrous to miss that. That's probably why Fire's alive as town.

,,,,,,,,

Petapan's final remaining suspicion

Petapan said that role-wise and gameplay-wise Klick made the most sense to him. He didn't elaborate much on that but it is interesting to me he would say tgameplay and role -- what is Klicks role

Scum already know my role and I'm gonna get hero shot by furtive tonight so I'll jump the queue

Each night I can choose to write an anonymous message for the mod to post at day start
N1 I deliberately chose not to do this because I had nothing to say - I was hoping Cakez would be an investigative and I could out his results anonymously
N2 I just fell asleep before writing a message (evidence: it's 3:45am right now)

Bruh

So it's a reporter and functionally not very helpful. What were the other scum?

Cakez - nonconsecutive commuter
TSQ - 4-shot flavour/role cop
ActionDan - 3-shot combined roleblocker/rolestopper

Yeah i could see it. Klick could also have other power not claimed. Sure.

But what about gameplay-wise?

Spoiler: Klick on Cakez

TOWN
furtiveglance
Morning Tweet
Black
SirCakez
Alisae

LEANING TOWN
Firebringer
VP Baltar
Gimli

NULL
Mistyx
Asri Teroka
Aristeia
redFF
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
Lycanfire
Cat Scratch Fever

SCUM

TOWN
Morning Tweet
Black
Asri Teroka
Alisae
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
furtiveglance
SirCakez
redFF
VP Baltar
Cat Scratch Fever

NULL
Gimli
Mistyx
Aristeia
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
Lycanfire

SCUM

I'd really like him to explain why he's townreading Cakez though.

I've had thoughts on this since last night but I went to sleep instead of responding.

Basically, I think my Cakez townread was poor. Early in Cakez's posting I thought his forwardness and willingness to bring a lot of opinions to the table was towny. I think this was biased somewhat by comparing him to Lycanfire in my head and thinking, 'well Cakez is being pretty free with his reads and Lycan isn't doing anything so if there's a scum between them it's more likely to be Lycan.' Which isn't a well-thought-out point.
In my last reads list I brought Cakez down a bit because I kinda realised this but still wanted to give credit to my initial gut ping.

I think ultimately I townread what you are scumreading. I ISO'd Cakez late last night and felt pretty similarly to you, that what he was doing could pretty easily be scum projecting false confidence. I don't feel strongly about it but with you saying it's his scum meta I kinda want to sheep you on it.

VOTE: SirCakez

TOWN
Morning Tweet
Black
Asri Teroka
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
Cat Scratch Fever
Aristeia
furtiveglance
Alisae
VP Baltar

NULL
redFF
Gimli
Mistyx
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
{Lycanfire, SirCakez}

SCUM

Considered thoughts are closer to here
The whole list is ordered
At this point petapan being leaning scum is kind of a meme but I like it anyway

I'm going to make a reads list completely from scratch based on my very removed impressions of everyone right now

TOWN
Aristeia
Black
furtiveglance
Asri Teroka
Thestatusquo
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
fireisredsir
Cat Scratch Fever
SirCakez
Morning Tweet

NULL
Alisae
petapan
redFF

LEANING SCUM
Gimli
Mistyx
ActionDan

Klick has Cakez town early, reconsiders at the behest of Ari questioning the TR, has him in scum for a while, then he shifts back to being a townread but i dont see a discernible reason why anywhere

Cakez stays as town for Klick a long while (i wont bother quoting the many posts where Cakez is around the 4th or 5th most highest TR for Klick) all the way up until the guilty. Klick tried to get Cakez to claim his role privately to him, which he did, and Klick believed it and defended cakez (until he got guiltied a little later)

Klick also has TSQ as high town during D1 before any deaths (2150, 2207) -- but as soon as TSQ gets guiltied, Klick says:

oh also i have another guilty - tsq visited csf

Makes me feel good about where my reads list was up to last night

Spoiler: reads

100% TOWN
petapan
Aristeia
furtiveglance

OBVIOUS TOWN
Alisae
Cat Scratch Fever
Black

VERY LIKELY TOWN
Asri Teroka
Gimli
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
redFF
Mistyx
fireisredsir

POE SCUMMY
Morning Tweet
Thestatusquo

Klick apparently TSQ as town but then started suspecting him the night before the morning of the guilty happened. Which is a little convenient, Klick's might be trying to get away with keeping Cakez and TSQ as high as possible until they can't anymore. Maybe because ActionDan got limmed so early in part thanks to Klick

I mean, I'm grasping a little bit here because my own interactiojns with TSQ and Cakez are YIKES because i recall townreading them both (Cakez primarily). But still seems very noteworthy.

Especially considering there is NOTHING role-wise that clears klick, and it *seeeems* to me based on about an hour skim that Klick didn't cause the thread to go in TSQ or Cakez directions, only ActionDans

I see what peta was trying to get at when he said role-wise and gameplay-wise he couldnt rule out Klick. So far I'm with him.

Firebringer - See: firefluffer problem
Aristeia - guiltied multiple scum
fireisredsir - INNOed by Firebringer
Gimli - Obviously suggested killing himself and me but also he just kinda seems towny. Also the giving guns ability, didn't need to give it to Ari and suggest shooting him with it,
furtiveglance - I actually forgot about furtive. Sorry. He's a Lazy Jailkeeper. I see he shot Misty. I skimmed and couldn't find the precise reason why it's not him. I assume it's night action based
Klick -
Morning Tweet - not in a PT with living players

My role for anyone that cares

I'm Hornet. I think it's like a tsundere type deal where i attack but also, i

protect

. I dig it.

I think it's Klick, but barring that, it's technically possible for it to be Gimli. And everyone is taking furtive as town for granted, I assume he did a jailkeep that was pivotal and i just cant bother to find it RN. I believe Firewoof/Aristeia/fireisred can safely be ignored.

[Morning Tweet]

Furtive kailkept peta on the first night. Then I *gears turning*... presume there was a no-kill, to which furtive says it is mechanically imperative that we eliminate peta (this did not happen)

theres a bunch of discussion on whether or not to lock TSQ in jail permanently

From what I'm getting, it looks like furtive may have prevented a nightkill by protecting peta from the shot. He also looks really towny the way he claimed 1-shot then switched it up to lazy plus the whole discussion on sending TSQ to maximum security seemed real. Also, when he suspects Klick for potentially slipping 4 scum (BECAUSE Apparently, furtive isn't Lazy, he's actually "Your role switches off when 3 scum die" which doubles him practically as informed of 4 mafia it looks good.

I dont think it's him. No one thought it was him. Good we have an underztanding then

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Klick

[Morning Tweet]

FireR/redFF (he didnt indicate which he was picking).

ive been very blatant on who i am hiding behind.
anyone who says otherwise hasn't been reading my posts lol

That makes it sounds like other people have been saying the same thing as i have, to me. Which makes me think the opposite, like you weren't very clear about it. But I'll check

Spoiler:

If we want to find last scum probably should just look for who has low WIM at this point
Scum have to feel defeated

I wouldn’t mind flipping fireR
We could confirm MT with his flip at least

I really don’t feel it’s alisae
And scum have incentive not to kill to clear more people

But if alisae was scum he would be auto found if Ali killed

Don’t know
Want to elim in MT/FireR
I feel they have the lowest wim right now

ill just hide behind redff
VOTE: Alisae

You were in between red/FireR/myself. I wouldn't describe it as blatant, so that's not true. I probably wouldn't have risked shooting at redFF just because of 4817. You could lie and target me or FireR and then you'd have an innocent + a vig shot on Red which is even better. But granted, i missed 4817 on the first go.

Also what is your point? I should be considering you because it is suspicious that you're not being shot? I cared more about Klick not really having anything ruling him out as a suspect than i did abt you being a hard person to shoot. I can buy scum not trying to shoot at you. Especially considering your role probably isn't as strong as you say it is -- it doesn't make any sense that you can be an investigative who protects himself and be ungated.

[Morning Tweet]

It's easy to give one suspect a lot of weight. I don't have any others. I don't think my confidence is overblown.

You signed Cakez' death warrant? I'm going to challenge you on that.

Spoiler:

I asked Cakez to claim to me in the neighbourhood overnight and got ignored
I'll try asking again

the only world where cakez ate yesterday makes sense as coming from town is if cakez believes his role is worthless.

if thats the case there is literally no reason for him to not just claim so we can move on.

Cakez has claimed to me, I think his interest in not claiming is valid, I think he's town, leave him alone.

I'm behind ten pages why do you all want me to claim Cakez's role

VOTE: Cakez

Cakez claimed a complicated version of 2-Shot Commuter

He claimed that two times in the game he could commute, but it's non-consecutive, and the night after he uses it he's Macho.

It seemed pretty believable as a role to me.

What if Cakez was the nightkill, commuted to petapan, and my JK did nothing

Nothing Cakez said indicated he could target anyone
He described it as an ascetic/bulletproof activated ability

I was slightly pinged by Cakez's defeatism
I think I have a tendency to falsely clear people when they are likely to die despite my townread on them
Which is probably a pretty decent bias to have actually

I dont understand. You townread Cakez up until Ari gets a guilty on Cakez. Everyone waits to hear Cakez claim through you. You didn't give permission for Cakez to die. They just wanted to hear Cakez role before eliming him from what I can tell. Ari had already claimed the guilty and TSQ/Black/Gimli had already voted. I skimmed through and this had long happened ago.

What am I missing here? You didn't sign the warrant, you're more or less a witness assisting the officers by giving them the information they requested.

[Morning Tweet]

Also what is your point?

i don't have a point other than i definitely said who i was hiding behind in my last post, just because i gave earlier names means nothing.

Pretending like its some weird game of "ohh he gave out so many names who is he really hiding behind" is dumb and u and anyone should know better.

But i don't know why u went defensive on this tbh. I was merely pointing out there shouldn't be a question of who i was actioning on. I can be a suspect for u and still be clear on my targets.

Just saying this seems silly.

Cause i made a whole post and then your reply was that

[Morning Tweet]

"U and anyone should know better" ?????????? What does me interpreting you being unclear about who you were hiding behind have to do with my intelligence?? So irritating

pedit: I don't even know what you're talking about

I said that I found it unclear who said you were hiding behind. I used that as a point for why scum might not bother trying to shoot you. You then said that I "should know better"?? Like what are you talking about??? I'm really really irritated about this

[Morning Tweet]

Definitely a misinput of some kind

You think im talking about peta/black's thoughts or something, when I'm talking about my own. I'm not sure.

I reaaally dont know what you're trying to say in 5097. I interpreted it as "You're a moron for not being able to tell who i was hiding behind, you're not even reading, and if you're not reading why should i trust your analysis".

Which is frustrating after spending a couple hours reading the game now. It's like you ignored everything in that post that mattered to focus in on some problem I don't even perceive.

[Morning Tweet]

If ur posting who u hide behind at the end of each day and everyone treats this as true, then sure, why hasn't scum shot you. of all the possible juicy NK targets, arenbt you clearly the juiciest? And aren't you making scum autolose the more nights you stay alive? and ur role is disproptionally good

This is all lines of thought that Black would approve of. So to be more direct, Black suspected you FB because he found it suspcious you weren't dying. The bit where I thought you were obfuscating ur target was all urs truly. The exact recount of the PT's thoughts are under "The Grimme Troupe" in my other post (Guess I should have named that less artistically and more functionally in hindsight)

But Peta would approve of it being Klick. Which is were I was putting my stock in. Suspecting Firebringer wasn't on the table for me because I figured he wasn't claiming his exact targets at the end of each day (he was claiming his exact targets at the end of each day) so I personally am left very confused why scum doesnt kill him but yeah

I still lim Klick

[Morning Tweet]

why hasn't scum shot you. of all the possible juicy NK targets, arenbt you clearly the juiciest?

clearly im not

you only clear someone each night for the entire game!! Although.. only with one mafia left.

Which there is and has been for a while, how many people have you innoed at this point

[Morning Tweet]

FB's role has been doing more harm than good for town, it's easy to circumvent, we flipped alisae for it etc

I don't think it's as strong as it looks like

You're probably right that it's just happened to be this strong. ish. I guess that explains why only FireR was innoed by it so far (iirc)

What if the bastard role is a mafia player who thinks they're town. Super deep wolf. So deep wolf that you're just stuck in a limbo endlessly looking for *yourself*

[Morning Tweet]

I didn't think it was very clear who firebringer was hiding behind last night?

WOW

:<FAPOOFLMfao

[Morning Tweet]

Klick it not me so if it not u and it not FB this is looking very very bad

[Morning Tweet]

@MT please link your last significantly developed town game you replaced into and your last scum game you replaced into.

HMMHMHMMMMM

As I recall, I saw dat and considered responing but couldn't be fucked plus I was starting to get confirm biased especially when Klick made the one "I kinda want to let Dan catch up but I kinda think he's scum" post -- like I was really goin hard on LycanDan. Not so much the other scum.

I was suspecting Firebringer for a while but like his attempts to solve on the previous page are convincing -- And now Klick's mentioning a TSQ-Fire interaction as well

I skimmed the first page of TSQ's ISO (WTF that's a lot of posts) -- he definitely had murderous intent for Fire consisntently yeah

Btw @Black, nothing goes on in the QT. Klick and Cakez are more MIA than I am.

Breh (Fire pointed this out)

You'd think an all-scum PT would like (IE Klick!scum), embellish their state hood activtity a little? Weirdly honest tactic to just not use it and then say you're not using it

[Morning Tweet]

Then again, hoods kinda suck. I didn't consider that.

[Morning Tweet]

I am dying to hear Klick's perspective on who he thinks it has to be at this point. But don't spoil who before you're ready

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:

[Morning Tweet]

I'm Hornet. Pretty sure i saw my brother fighting her as a boss while playing irl. Maybe a mini-boss turned friend? She didnt seem very big

Fire's role sticks out like a major sore thumb. You can't kill it directly, it can find scum, it's unlimited. Doesn't jive with every other role in the game at all

You're right, Klick being a reporter in ah ood with 2 scum just *makes sense* with Klick as a potential pocket and mouthpiece for the scum. It's so goofy if it's three scum

Furtive said he is a

full

lazy jailkeeper (the 1-shot claim was to feign uselessness or some other ofc). I'm pretty sure he had a night action that removed him from the suspect list. Whatever it was has exited me

A 2-shot gun inventor can be a scum role (I modded a game with a 4-shot Night 3 Quadruple N4 Gun inventor placed on a scumteam once -- had to target town but kept a gun).... seeing as Gimli's guns are real and all. But I kind of doubt it. Sort of wish I kept my shots so we could shoot ourselves during the night rather than die out here like this

I could be wrongfully townreading furtive's behaviour (the way he claimed 1-shot then Lazy seemed real to me as well as just his posts in general). Lazy jailkeeper that's right. Not full. Lazy jailkeeper and 3-shot babysitter. If furtive is a scum roleblocker that means scum has 2 roleblockers and town has JUST ME as a protective. Seems wrong.

TBH me being a traitor is easier to accept than most of the other bullshit I can think of when trying to figure this out.

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: thinking out loud

I think we know for a fact furtive is a jailkeeper as he says (pretty sure) -- so it just doesnt make sense for him to be scum

mmmmmm me being a divorced scum who's just confused and tasked with healing/killing targets seems reasonable

I think Firebringer has to be completely or partially lying about his role claim, but i guess that's neither here nor there considering his claim corners him into having to lose if he's scum. Right? It doesn't win for Fire

I don't really think it could be Gimli or Klick or furtive. FireR is innoed/fake innoed by Fire which means it can't be FireR ever.

On night 3 Asri and Mistyx got killed. On night 4 no one got killed. On night 5 petapan and black got killed.

I understand that Black and one of asri/misty got hit with the nail-gun that GImli makes. I assume scum kills peta not caring about Fire's claim and confirming FireR as town in the process. I don't remember when furtive blocks a kill or the exact details about that and im a bit too embarrassed to ask.

Maybe Firebringer just doesnt consider the reprecussions of his claim, or maybe he sees something I'm not seeing and can actually make it to Xylo with that claim and live.

I don't seeeeeeee any other clear answer. That's.. all I've got

Fireisred is definitely town
I'm convinced of furtive's innocence at this point

I have not confirmed that i know for a 100% fact that Ari is a tracker. I guess. Plus she's Lazy so i guess we can't check.

The way that Ari reveals the claim against Cakez seems super real though and was very deflating i imagine to scum's hopes at that point lol
It feels like i can see for the first time now (after seeing Gimlis post) and Klick just genuinely can't be scum ever both rolewise and gamewise

Fuuuuuuuuuck I'm like

Firebringer >>> Gimli > furtive >> Aristeia > Klick >>>>> fireisred

I suspect Fire the most but, I'm pretty sure the answer is something completely different from my thrown together best guess of "Fire messes up role claim / has some sort of secret plan to get to Xylo". He could still be scum (His role claim completely stands out and there's just no getting around that) but he seems locked into losing.

I don't know. It's not very satisfying. Maybe I'll take another crack at it. I feel like the scum whose alive right now feels they can make it to the Xylo (but maybe not win it). They're probably plying to reach that final showdown. They have to be giving it a lot. Fire, Gimli, Furtive, Ari, and Klick. Klick is sooooo much not like Klick that one time as scum (and other ppl have echoed this im pretty sure). Klick is playing out of their mind here. Ari mentioned that Gimli is far out of his scum meta (which I would totally believe, I'm fooled).

Spoiler: one last extra tangent that didnt go anywhere

Maybe Aristeia didn't cause Cakez lim and claimed tracker when it already seemed like he was going to die and Cakez got demotivated or something????? WHAT THE FUCK the gymnastics you've gotta do don't make sense.

No, Ari was pressuring Cakez actually prior to the track guilty. It completely makes sense that Ari would target Cakez with a tracker shot that night

I'm just now happening to read the bit where fireisred says not to shoot me and furtive says overn over he's gonna shoot me like he doesnt hear him good stuff, lmao

Spoiler: I argue against myself

Damn I think i'm probably most suspicious out of the pool of people who aren't Fire. Thats bound to happen when you sleep thru half of the day phases i suppose. We know Gimli's an inventor, furtive a JK, Ari a tracker, Klick a reporter. Me? Just a clumsy bat who fumbled the role from when i failed to read it in the beginning-- but of course, also not in a PT with TSQ. But a traitor isn't that unlikely in a role madness. What if it's something really cool and not a babysitter at all? think bigger than 3-shot babysitter. Something that justifies not being able to coordinate as closely.

Me being scum here is a lot

cooler

than what actually happened. but i guess, of course it would be.

I think I've had my fill for tonight, my compliments to the scum player, (what must be decades ago) i thought the game was over. But.. nope. you're really not sticking out. Even if it's FB it's going to make me go :O .. very hard to believe. i love the performance is my point

[Morning Tweet]

I echo fireR's sentiment that i would individually expect a town flip from every player

[Morning Tweet]

this game officially the most expensive mafia game i have ever played.

please ask me why

Because your Radiance PT is on Mafiascum+, the new premium site

s tier exchange

I can use my ability every night until 3 Radiance's Infected die, at which point I can't use it.

also this is the exact same gating that I have - it's not a lazy gate it's a "3 dead scum" gate - I don't see why a mafia player would have such a gate.

Which one of you claimed the exact wording (until 3 are dead) first? Either way, it lends a lot of credibility knowing 1 town player already has such a modifier. It's used on a role that generates innos and guilties just the same..

gotta tab back into game

[Morning Tweet]

this game officially the most expensive mafia game i have ever played.

please ask me why

and the anwer to this was i got a ticket for playing mafia while driving.
don't do it kiddos

LMFAO

It's impossible to stop the thought train once it starts going

I thought u were just making a joke about it being emotionally taxing. ur explanation makes more sense

[Morning Tweet]

To be clear i dont think we should eliminate FB today because he's still going to be able to claim clears each night

I honestly believe in Klick's innocence to the point where I'd go me get eliminated and it'd ultimately b3e more helpful if they got cleared next than me

I don't really know who I want eliminated besides FB down the line but thats agiven, so kind of awkward

imagine thinking im defending myself by trying to hunt for final scum.
yall can lim me for all i care.

As opposed to doing what? Not hunting for final scum?

[Morning Tweet]

i dont rlly think ur being hyper defensive, I think you're a reasonable amount of defensive

I feel like some players r holdi9ng ur feet to the fire and considering outright limming you despite it not being quite as an auto plan

Thats prolly as much pressure as u can get. Ari and RedF seem like they dont quite know what to make of it yet

Also i didnt realize there was a hypersolve coming. I'd hold ur paws to the fire but ur a fire dog that wouldnt do anything. I could ask please?

pedit: ur face is disingenuous

[Morning Tweet]

I think u should focus on furtive more. Are you familiar with his night actions n shit. Maybe explain hiow they could come from scum -- they totally could and i just dont see it -- again, wasnt there for probably 2-3 days

[Morning Tweet]

My face is always disingenous
seriously i don't see why u would want or be cool with being eliminated MT.
I have never seen u be like that in any game ever.

Really? Huh, weird.

I would say it fluctuates depending on the game. Have we ever been in a 1 scum several town show-off before? My strategy of townreading most everyone and killing the rest breaks at this part of the game

[Morning Tweet]

Ok ill remember that when/if i try to seriously figure it out again

How would you be expecting furtive to be playing as town? it seemed like you feel he isn't doing anything but pushing you blankly ("not helping"). I pretty sure remember that he thought it was me for a decent chunk.

For you not to treat me as mechanically clear, you have to go assert that each of the following things is true:

• Either 1) I decided to use my traitorous scum jailkeep ability on a player I thought was scum and then tried to bus him the next day OR 2) I decided to use my traitorous scum jailkeep ability on a player I thought was town and then tried to mislim him the next day.
  
• I either 1) claimed the exact 'until 3 Mafia died' specification as Aristeia
  before she did
  or 2) indeed have that exact specification as scum.
  
• I started as a Traitor, gained kill power and chose to shoot petapan last night instead of both Firebringer and Fireisredsir (it only makes sense for Firebringer to do this).

Try to argue this.

I'm pretty sure we know for a fact he's a jailkeeper which just lends credence to his claim, he's the only protective besides me IIRC (and he's a more reliable one). Plus the 3 scum dead modifier

UGh Firebringer not getting shot last night means that A.) scum doesnt respect FireB innoing the entire game from now on B.) he can't shoot himself. It's realllly hard to see why scum wouldn't shoot fire and FireR. I see why Firebringer either finds this insulting or is scum

I'm not sure it's insulting though. I think it's more calling the bluff, I guess? But it didnt turn out to be a bluff. The more I think about this there's just more and more contradictions and things that dont make sense

There's a lot of reasons it can't be furtive that do make sense

[Morning Tweet]

Lim me then lim Firebringer

let's say that Ari dies and Klick gets inno'ed by Firebringer

Furtive - town
Klick - innoed
fireisred - innoed
Gimli - ?
Firebringer - ?

That's auto assuming just furtive town. So scum has to no kill I assume.


no one gets killed so firebringer can't investigate

Ari - town
furtive - town
fireisred- innoed
Klick - ?
Gimli - ?
Fire - ?

say you lim Klick. scum still doesn't kill.

Ari - town
furtive - town
fireisred- innoed
Gimli - ?
Fire - ?

You can just keep executing the rest of the game, pretty sure

So it doesnt become optimal to kill Fire until at the end

But Fire individually seems the most likely to me

Maybe Fire can do something to make him win when if he buys himself enough time with this? Very hard to explain the WIM of everyone here besides ari/fireisred, it seems unwinnable for one of us. He coul dhave a really cool trick or something.

I really don't think it's Klick or Gimli, I think it kinda has to be Fire, I might favour outright elimming firebringer. If he's town we'd open the door to losing but not a lot of other clear contradictions in the setup

If you vote out me in favour of keeping Firebringer's claim alive, the same reasoning can be extended to klick and Gimli also being executed because scum will not be able to kill anyone the following nights without being boxed in as far as i can tell. So then it'd just be Firebringer, furtive, Ari, and fireisred. You could then lastly vote out Fire assuming he hasn't won the game from a mystery condition or something else i havent considered

[Morning Tweet]

what do tweet & fireisred want?

Lim me->Gimli->Klick-Firebringer (scum can't kill probably)

OR

lim firebringer right now (he might be playing to survive to Xylo for mystery reason, which would explain why his claim mechanically makes him only get eliminated at Xylo. But it's an inherent risk)

Idrk which is better