Election! | GAME OVER

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Declare Treasurer

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'll vote for LLD if she selects mayor or Council member

Oh.

Am I able to change?

I just figured I could do the most as Treasurer

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Pooky is a dirty capitalist.

Nuke: Pooky

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Got pookys vote

Next

You bastard!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD for treasurer!

With this many people inside me, I have to be good with money!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also sleeby phoenix is best avvy

[Lady Lambdadelta]

wait this JUST started
my time zone on ms is just way off I guess?
can’t believe the mafia hacked my board preferences

don't worry my Ms time zone is still newfie time

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it might be better for us to just vote for who is the towniest among us and just put up 6 candidates only so we dont have to go thru the whole hidden vote bullshit

that's hyper bad we just nominate somenoe to be cop each night and watch them die?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it might be better for us to just vote for who is the towniest among us and just put up 6 candidates only so we dont have to go thru the whole hidden vote bullshit

that's hyper bad we just nominate somenoe to be cop each night and watch them die?

what

if we only nominate one person for sherrif, that person auto wins sherrif, so cops know who sherrif is, right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i still have nightmares about differential equations

diff eq is fun!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also i'm feeling a little under the weather

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ok whats the goal of scum in this phase of the game to you

cutting in to say this is a dangerous question that shouldn't be answered unntilt the phase is over

[Lady Lambdadelta]

holy fucking bingle, we found the no fly list! what?! :3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

back in the good old days before "obvtowning" "townblocing" "POEing" and "solving" became popular, it was a better time[to be scum]. We didn't bother to look for consensus or read each other off cheat meta tricks, we pulled wrote out long verbose letters DEMANDING the death of our enemies[real or imagined] and spent MONTHS litigating each word back and forth. Entire years would go by without a game ending - moderators would flake, come back, and then flake again never to be seen again. Night phases were only suggestions and day starts a ridiculous concept. I died before I got to post in every game for an entire year and a half.

i wish that he was lying but only like, half of this is false

[Lady Lambdadelta]

pooky what if i don't want to be 2010 LLD tho

[Lady Lambdadelta]

its ok theres no way any1 will take me seriously and it will be laughed at as the ramblings of a mad bear who's grown too long in the tooth

WOW OBVIOUS SCUM KILL POOKY THIS SCUMFUCK SO CHEEKY IT'S TURBO WAGON TIME GO GO GO

[Lady Lambdadelta]

IT'S PAGE 11 WHY IS POOKY STILL ALIVE I WANNA END THIS STUPID PHASE AND MURDER HIM

ANYONE WHO DISAGREES CAN DIE NEXT

HOP ON THE DEATH TRAIN CHOO CHOOOOOOOOO

[Lady Lambdadelta]

FUCK IT'S PAGE 12 NOW

OH WELL TRAIN HAS 0 BRAKES

CAPS LOCK IS FOR LOSERS RIGHT SHIFT IS JUSTICE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS

THE SCREAMING DEATH CLAN RIDES AGAIN !!!

SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE.

POOKY YOU SCUMFUCK YOU GET TO LIVE IF YOU BUS YOUR SCUMFUCK BUDDY ENCHANT.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I PROMISE I'LL KILL YOU LAST.

PROMISE.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

WE'RE ALL SCREAMING LLD AND POOKY ARE SCREAMING ITS LIKE OLD TIMES

BTW VOTE CAKEZ FOR TRASH

FUCK YOUR ROLE ASPIRATIONS, IT'S TIME TO MURDERFUCK SOME SCUM.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ahahahahaEHEHEHEUEHEUHEUHEHWHAHEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

VOTE: ENCHANT

CHOO CHOO MOTHERFUCKER DONE PLAYIN GAMES

IT'S TIME FOR THAT OG

[Lady Lambdadelta]

OKAY I AM READING AND THEN WE CAN MURDER SOME SCUM BUT ALSO I AM TRYING TO BE LESS SPAMMY/ONE LINERY AND MORE THOUGHTFUL AND EXPLAINED SO I MAY NOT HAVE ANY MURDERFUCKERY TO SUPPLY YET

THINKING IS FOR CHEEKY SCUMFUCKS WHO TRY TO ESCAPE JUSTICE AND THEIR SWEET SWEET DEATHS.

WE DON'T THINK, WE JUST KILL.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

CAKEZ YOU DO KNOW YOU HAVE LITERALLY NOT POSTED A SINGLE THOUGHT ABOUT ANOTHER PERSONS ALIGNMENT TO THIS THREAD YET RIGHT

HE'S RIGHT WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU VOTING CAUGHT SCUM ENCHANT YET CAKEZ?

TOO SCARED TO BUS IT'S OKAY YOU CAN KILL ME TONIGHT AND PRETEND YOU'RE TOWN TOMORROW THEY DEFINITELY WON'T KILL YOU

eheheheHEUHEUHEUHEUHEHUEHUEHEAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Lady Lambdadelta]

CAKEZ IS FROZEN SCUM GG NORE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fun times

GET ON BOARD LOSER IT'S TIME TO KILL SCUMFUCKS.

:3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I just want to eliminate Mafia, in a calmer way

BEING CALM IS BULLSHIT THERE IS ONLY RAGE BLOOD AND JUSTICE.

WE ARE KILLING ENCHANT TODAY, GET ON BOARD HUEHUEHEUHEUHUEEHUEHUEHUEHEUHUE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The fate impersonation is spot on. Incredible

Yeah. Impersonation. Right.

*coughcough*

I MEAN, COME KILL THIS SCUMFUCK WITH ME

[Lady Lambdadelta]

CAKEZ YOU DO KNOW YOU HAVE LITERALLY NOT POSTED A SINGLE THOUGHT ABOUT ANOTHER PERSONS ALIGNMENT TO THIS THREAD YET RIGHT

YES AND I DO NOT FEEL THE NEED TO YET I WILL WHEN I HAVE A FEELING ON SOMETHING THAT I CAN EXPLAIN

EXPLAINING IS FOR COWARDS

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GIVE ME YOUR GUT READS COWARD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THEM

SAY IT COWARD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

STILL FROZEN

[Lady Lambdadelta]

[Lady Lambdadelta]

PICTURED: CAKEZ

[Lady Lambdadelta]

OKAY YOU ASKED FOR IT
MY BIG GUT READ ATM IS

LLD SCUM!!!

YOU LITERALLY SAT THERE WAFFLING ON SAYING THIS FOR 20 MINUTES JUST TO HIDE IT IN SPOILERS?

WERE YOU AFRAID TO CALL ME SCUM BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT'LL BRING YOU HEAT?

ARE YOU AFRAID TO BURDEN YOUR SCUMTEAM BY DYING DAY 1?

HUEHEUHEUHUEHUEHUE

[Lady Lambdadelta]

in all seriousness, being called on multiple times to provide any kind of gun to head read and ending up on "lld scummy lul" after being frozen on whether you wanted to say it or not for nearly half an hour and then hiding it in spoilers is not town.

that's scum afraid that it'll blow them up long run

[Lady Lambdadelta]

CAKEZ YOU DO KNOW YOU HAVE LITERALLY NOT POSTED A SINGLE THOUGHT ABOUT ANOTHER PERSONS ALIGNMENT TO THIS THREAD YET RIGHT

CAKEZ YOU DO KNOW YOU HAVE LITERALLY NOT POSTED A SINGLE THOUGHT ABOUT ANOTHER PERSONS ALIGNMENT TO THIS THREAD YET RIGHT

HE'S RIGHT WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU VOTING CAUGHT SCUM ENCHANT YET CAKEZ?

TOO SCARED TO BUS IT'S OKAY YOU CAN KILL ME TONIGHT AND PRETEND YOU'RE TOWN TOMORROW THEY DEFINITELY WON'T KILL YOU

eheheheHEUHEUHEUHEUHEHUEHUEHEAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

CAKEZ IS FROZEN SCUM GG NORE

CAKEZ YOU DO KNOW YOU HAVE LITERALLY NOT POSTED A SINGLE THOUGHT ABOUT ANOTHER PERSONS ALIGNMENT TO THIS THREAD YET RIGHT

YES AND I DO NOT FEEL THE NEED TO YET I WILL WHEN I HAVE A FEELING ON SOMETHING THAT I CAN EXPLAIN

CAKEZ YOU DO KNOW YOU HAVE LITERALLY NOT POSTED A SINGLE THOUGHT ABOUT ANOTHER PERSONS ALIGNMENT TO THIS THREAD YET RIGHT

YES AND I DO NOT FEEL THE NEED TO YET I WILL WHEN I HAVE A FEELING ON SOMETHING THAT I CAN EXPLAIN

EXPLAINING IS FOR COWARDS

GIVE ME YOUR GUT READS COWARD

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THEM

OKAY YOU ASKED FOR IT
MY BIG GUT READ ATM IS

LLD SCUM!!!

okay so, the distance between these posts in time in very small in terms of content, and you go from not giving anything despite being pushed to

to saying directly to pooky you have 0 to go on and 0 reads.

to saying i won't like your read

to saying you scum read me

frozen across over an hour of posting and multiple prods.

why did it take that long to develop one gun to head read and further more, what changed between "when I have a feeling on something" to "LLD scum"?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) for my sanity I cannot be on MS 24/7 to respond as soon as people post

Sorry but given that you responded multiple times in the time frame and clearly had LLD scum in mind from "you're not going to like it".

So why didn't you say it then. Why the buffer post?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like it's very clear to me that you went from having 0 reads to having LLD scum to saying LLD scum and still hiding it behind a spoiler.

In the span of 3 posts.

So what changed from post 1 to 2?
Why didn't post 2 just out and say what the thing you clearly had on your mind was?
Why did you hide your read behind a spoiler in post 3?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cuz it was more fun the way I did it lol that's literally it

I'm not going to sit around this game defending everything I do I'm totally sick of it you can scumread me if you want but it's not fun playing Mafia this way

You're not obligated to defend anything, but I am getting the sense that more than anything you wanted not to be having this interaction or to be put under such scrutiny this early.

This is lining up with that concern.

I'm not here trying to make this game unfun for you, but these are casual observations of your play that I think need answers.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I can't even remember the last game I played where I wasn't bombarded with shit pushes within like the first 24 hours of the game
I just don't care anymore

How is this a shit push?

I get you don't want to have to defend further things, but getting pushed in mafia and having the ability to answer questions is part of the game.

I resent this implication that I'm somehow attacking you personally or doing anything outside of the norm.

I also resent the implication that I'm somehow the cause of a negative mental health decline on you and the emotional manipulation that comes with that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sigh

i was having fun

and now i get to feel like the asshole for pushing a suspicious behaviour i saw, and get guilted for...

i'm v/la for a while, my WIM is completely dead

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i fucking spent that time drawing a fun picture and

wasdkfjashkildflsak,jDSFLASDLKX

[Lady Lambdadelta]

can some people start working on forming townblocs so i dont have to effort cuz im sick and i dont really feel like tryharding

i'd try but i am real low on WIM rn lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Pooky, you need to go down one level.

Mafia is best played in layers, Furtive. We know we're not going to be 100% right when we make an initial town block (or we will be and acting on it will be fruitful).

Who goes first and who pushes for what within the block informs how the block reforms later.

The idea is that we can dicate the support and status quo of the game before the scum can, and have much of the quiet part of people's reads said fully outloud to lock them in on shit for later.

In essence it grabs a grouping of people that contains MOSTLY townies with the idea to kill anyone who doesn't look town and then re-evaluate based on how that process went to see what infiltrators exist.

Small town blocks don't actually affect game state change.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Basically big number good big number create pressure and kill threat

small number still infiltratable and manipulatable, but has less townies to counterbalance that and enforces much less thread control.

Big number good.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

maybe i should retire from playing mafia and just write like 10 articles on mafia theory and increase the general skill level of the website lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Thanks for bringing it down to my level D_D

i don't mean to be condescending, it's more like

i mean look at join dates

Pooky and I are like... we've spent more hours thinking about mafia than possibly the whole rest of this player list combined. i understood precisely what Pooky was trying to say, but will others? eh, probably not

it's worth simplifying and saying the quiet parts louder for people to climb that ladder

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'm gonna trust pooky's read on meowth if pooky even thinks they know who that is

at least for a few days

[Lady Lambdadelta]

my vibes are often immaculate

SlappyKrew at it again with the big vibes

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think people should support me for treasurer because I'm town but I'm doing a massive shrug with my WIM right now so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

pooky who is scum

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i think datisi + ausuka + guiltylion + ????

aight bet

put me on council and we'll kill that list lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i think datisi + ausuka + guiltylion + ????

aight bet

put me on council and we'll kill that list lol

is pooky townie to you? if so, why? if not... why this

pooky town here 95% of the time

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ok my line of thought was that Datisi told you in the scum PT about that time he was scum and got the cop position in House of the Dragon and that he was going to be a CHEEKY SCUMFUCK and run it back because STYLE POINTS and thats why the joke made sense for you to make it.

cheeky scumfuck is my manchurian candidate trigger phrase lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

why do i play mafia

because it's.... ribbiting?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I AM PERFORMING REAL POLITIK.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Voting Herta over me is >=(

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well, I hope people support me, lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean, I voted for Pooky and Dan.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I AM GOING TO MAKE A RULE AS YOUR MAGNANAMOUS TREASURER.

IF SOMEONE IS GOING TO HAMMER A VOTE, INSTEAD SIGNAL "I WOULD BE VOTING NOW" TO LET ME KNOW.

THE REASON FOR THIS IS I SHOULD BE THE ONLY ONE WHO HAMMERS, SUFFICIENT I NEVER MISS MY WINDOW TO SUBMIT MY FUNDING TO THE POWER ROLES.

THERE SHOULD NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER BE A REASON ANYONE BUT ME HAMMERS.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I found myself busy. I'll try to catch up this evening.

I'm disappointed to lose the treasurer slot but I think LLD will do a fine job. I liked her opening post.

Yeah I'm trying to run this as best as I can.

I also had a real bad night last night so I'm gonna take some time for me today but I'll check in.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hello friends I return from my dead brain.

I'm going to spend a lot of today writing on things that aren't mafia because I want to accomplish something today, but tonight I will be around and I'd love to do some live interaction style with players to generate better reads on them? Reading back is something I'll do in due time.

As for plans in the elected thread, they're coming along smoothly. I have some choice paralysis to overcome and make but I feel confident we can do powerful things.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oh also vote wise

I was

Pooky, Dan, Furtive, Datisi, Blood

[Lady Lambdadelta]

UNVOTE:

i like unowen for 222

bingle seems okay?

why (the unowen part)

i had the same thought

lol wait til you get to the part where I also had the same thought

(:

I...

something about this exchange feels incredibly unnatural.

I can't put my finger on it but I'd bet real life money that one of the 3 people in this exchange is scum, at minimum, if not 2. PROBABLY not 3, 3 would be too cheeky, even for scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

having played some with both gl and std, their posts there seem pretty null to me...?

why did you end up voting for me for sheriff, lld?

cause if you're cop and town, then you'll investigate good choices

and if you're cop and scum i'll get to DO IT TO YOU AGAIN

hueheuhehahaJHAHAHAHAH

(no but for real like, if you are being cheeky and doing the "going for cop as scum once more" gambit, it gives me an angle to read you on that I didn't think I'd have for the other 2 people)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

meh, fair enough.

did you ever have a read on me? i ask because you agreed to help pooky kill me if you made the elections or wtv

Datisi, why do I say anything ever in mafia?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

to... get others to do what you want?

What? God, no.

that's just a side effect

nah, I say things because it's like ripples in a pond.

they flow out and bounce off other things and then I get a picture of the social graph theory that is contained in this game.

In essence I say shit, whether I mean it or not, to solve the game.

If I want to kill someone, I'll just kill someone. Convincing people isn't that hard.

or did you not see me convince Enchant and Drapion in HotD to follow me despite basically not interacting with them in any capacity prior by promising them what they wanted?

Getting people on board is the easy part.

Being right while you do it is the trick.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like if you want an example of this go read the newbie I played with STD recently where STD was scum.

I replaced into a basically guaranteed dead slot and did whatever it took to live. Infact, I did live that game. All the way to ELO being suspected and cast the losing vote in the 50/50.

I convinced a town full of people who constantly wanted my blood not to want my blood as town because I knew I was town.

It's easy to get people to do what you want to do.

It's harder to be right while doing it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Should i out what abilities JOAT have or no?

Nah. Way worse to do that.

Even if there is scum in the council which there very well may be, it's better if there's a limited pool of those who know so if something does go fucky it's more liekly the council did it than it just being someone in town who did.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

In essence I say shit, whether I mean it or not, to solve the game.

okay

did you get any reads from saying that (not trying to be snarky here)

and if you actually wanted me to be sheriff, why didn't you say anything prior to the election

I did!

Also, I didn't push for you to be Sherrif because that info is useful too, who voted how.

also also my WIM was and is low right now so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Nah. Way worse to do that.

:eyebrows:

We most certainly should out which abilities exist. (Not which JOAT has which abilities, but which abilities actually exist.) The naive calculation is a 12% chance of no scum in the council. For anyone not in the council that isn't scum, that number is higher. In a practical sense, that number is higher because scum has the motivation and ability to disproportionately influence declaration and election results.

Same with role costs and how much money the treasurer has.

You should also try to end the budget on a weird number, preferably a decimal, to see if there's carry over from one day to the next.

The whole point of that is that if something indeed DOES "go fucky" we have as much information to work out what happened as possible.

Also, I'm not convinced that we shouldn't no lim here, and in absence of a vig or a functionally confirmed protection we probably should.

The two things that should remain secret are thus:

Which JOAT has which abilities.
How much you allot to each individual player.

The latter should be revealed as close as you possibly can to the end of the night phase so that we can have the knowledge in case you get shot, but so that we don't let scum know who they should be shooting.

okay but this information can come out later

and the only difference is that people not in the council don't get to currently weigh in.

So it's not "oh there's only a 12% chance the council is scum free!" which, bullshit we also elected on reads so that bumps it a bit higher mate.

But more importantly it's "there's a 12% EV increase in witholding this info to a smaller circle because if we release it at large then it is 100% scum knows about it".

The ONLY difference is you, personally, Bingle don't get to weigh in on action choices. I know that's what's bothering you, and I'm sort of.... well I just don't care.

You can't list one good reason that this should be given publicly over held within the circle. It's a 6 person circle, there's only 4 scum in the game per the rules so there WILL ALWAYS BE AT LEAST 2 TOWNIES TO CORROBORATE STORIES AND SHARE INFO.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, this is transparently Bingle wanting to get their hands on the rules of the game to dictate it, even if it's strictly worse from a probability standpoint.

I'm perfectly capable of running mech and maths.

I don't know if this is scum indicative for Bingle since this feels like the thing Bingle prides themselves on but...

Yeah, no. there's 0 good reasons this needs to be public at this moment.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

in honor of my predecessor all my votes will now be placed in [scum][/scum] tags

Scum the Dragons

[Lady Lambdadelta]

okay but this information can come out later

This information absolutely needs to come out before the election on D2, and should come out before we decide whether to take the game off of evens today. What you're proposing is to attempt to hide the roles that exist in the game from scum so that scum can't manipulate them to their advantage when the overwhelming probability is that scum already has that info. As for your "We elected on reads, so actual numbers higher" argument, we elected self nominated people in pools of three. BloodBot literally ran unopposed, and Enchant had a landslide victory despite virtually no consensus on their alignment. If you think scum wasn't happy with the way the election panned out you're kidding yourself, because there was very little in the way of actually trying to argue election results.

There is utility in preventing scum from knowing exactly which JOAT has, say, protective abilities, if we're in the incredibly unlikely case that we actually have a pure council. There is more utility in town knowing that there is a JOAT with protective abilities. There's a reason massclaim can break setups, and we're in a setup where scum can't handle the problem via shooting the individual PRs.

And no duh I think I should have access to the mechanical information. I made that clear like a week ago when I said I didn't see a reason to run for the council when the information the council has should basically all be made public anyway.

What tangible gain do you expect to see from not sharing roles?

for someone who seems to be acclaimed at mechanics, you sure struggle to read the OP.

Scum apparently have secret roles. Why should I increase the chance they get to use them effectively and backbreakingly by outing information?

You'll have full claims of actions from the whole council before day 2 elections. Not a moment sooner.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh, and?

"I didn't run for council because I thought it would all be made public anyway" sure sounds like scum complaining that they thought they did not need to expose themselves to scrutiny and could hide behind a facade of appearing town and still obtain all the information they needed to know, and run for elections later.

And it sounds to me like I've stepped in the way of your ambitions.

Such a shame.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

im ready to turn my brain off and just sheep lld for elim 1

OH HELL YEAH BROTHER

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, this is transparently Bingle wanting to get their hands on the rules of the game to dictate it, even if it's strictly worse from a probability standpoint.

I'm perfectly capable of running mech and maths.

I don't know if this is scum indicative for Bingle since this feels like the thing Bingle prides themselves on but...

Yeah, no. there's 0 good reasons this needs to be public at this moment.

Okay I feel like this is scum indicative for Bingle though? If he's a mech mastermind he should recognize that we don't need to dump all this information now. Ferreting it out seems pretty antitown.

I agree, but then my brain says "is Bingle the kind of player who would feel isolated and left out by not having access to the game mechanics?"

Because in HotD I felt the same, you know. It's hard not to view a desire to be in the loop through that lens a bit.

But it's definitely not a townie movie. It's just a question for me of if this is scum motivation or townie jealousy.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

meowth do you have scumreads outside unowen?

furtiveglance - mixed signals at the moment, not null, just some things i like but a couple holding me back from a full town read

pookythemagicalbear - so far there is nothing that absolutely couldnt be scum pooky, but he will sort himself eventually. just going to assume town until i have evidence to the contrary

datisi - feeling town for reasons already described

bingle - leaning town as i think most of the reads he gave are reasonable

sleepykrew - i dont remember anything sleepy has done

actiondan - town read from our limited interaction

enchant - i am very interested in applying pressure here tomorrow. im not scum reading anything enchant has done in particular but the votes make me very suspicious. i am very curious to see what happens at night

ausuka - ill be interested in going back and looking at all the interactions with ausuka after we have some flips, but there are a couple things that make me think she is more likely to be town than not

save the dragons - scummy entrance into the thread, thinking scum with unowen is very possible

guiltylion - likely town imo, i do feel like gl is actually trying to sort me as opposed to how unowen is going about interacting with me

lld - has done nothing of note, which i think is nai as either alignment. same approach as with pooky, town for now

herta - waiting for catchup, no real thoughts at the moment. easiest way to sort herta at the moment is for someone to tell me if scum herta declares treasurer or not.

unowen - scummy for reasons discussed, plus providing basically no content since then except attacking me to try to slow their own wagon.

sircakez - theres nothing i have seen from cakez i particularly dislike, going to give him space to get going.

bloodb0t - i didnt like 981, like really really didnt like, but dont feel like pushing a pr is likely to go anywhere and id rather focus on unowen at the moment

Besides, I have a so much worse player to murder

Vote: Meowth

This is an attrocious reads list. On all notes. But MOST OF ALL.

this is literally a scum claim. "done nothing of note" Lie. "NAI as either alignment, like Pooky. ... TOWN FOR NOW?"

Kill this with fire, please.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, this is transparently Bingle wanting to get their hands on the rules of the game to dictate it, even if it's strictly worse from a probability standpoint.

I'm perfectly capable of running mech and maths.

I don't know if this is scum indicative for Bingle since this feels like the thing Bingle prides themselves on but...

Yeah, no. there's 0 good reasons this needs to be public at this moment.

Okay I feel like this is scum indicative for Bingle though? If he's a mech mastermind he should recognize that we don't need to dump all this information now. Ferreting it out seems pretty antitown.

I agree, but then my brain says "is Bingle the kind of player who would feel isolated and left out by not having access to the game mechanics?"

Because in HotD I felt the same, you know. It's hard not to view a desire to be in the loop through that lens a bit.

But it's definitely not a townie movie. It's just a question for me of if this is scum motivation or townie jealousy.

Who did you feel that way about? I don't see Bingle in HotD playerlist

No I mean in HotD I felt that way.

I was excluded from the mechanics by our King and spent 4 days literally checked out of the game despite apparently post game having disgusting reads and being 5/5 on my stated town block day 1.

I checked out of the game for a few reasons but the major one was essentially people saying "nah we'll keep the game in this circle and away from you"

So I KNOW what it feels like to like... be excluded and want to look in.

But it's also strictly wrong.

the question for me is : "Is bingle arrogant enough to think his input is better than cold mathematics?"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

meowth do you have scumreads outside unowen?

furtiveglance - mixed signals at the moment, not null, just some things i like but a couple holding me back from a full town read

pookythemagicalbear - so far there is nothing that absolutely couldnt be scum pooky, but he will sort himself eventually. just going to assume town until i have evidence to the contrary

datisi - feeling town for reasons already described

bingle - leaning town as i think most of the reads he gave are reasonable

sleepykrew - i dont remember anything sleepy has done

actiondan - town read from our limited interaction

enchant - i am very interested in applying pressure here tomorrow. im not scum reading anything enchant has done in particular but the votes make me very suspicious. i am very curious to see what happens at night

ausuka - ill be interested in going back and looking at all the interactions with ausuka after we have some flips, but there are a couple things that make me think she is more likely to be town than not

save the dragons - scummy entrance into the thread, thinking scum with unowen is very possible

guiltylion - likely town imo, i do feel like gl is actually trying to sort me as opposed to how unowen is going about interacting with me

lld - has done nothing of note, which i think is nai as either alignment. same approach as with pooky, town for now

herta - waiting for catchup, no real thoughts at the moment. easiest way to sort herta at the moment is for someone to tell me if scum herta declares treasurer or not.

unowen - scummy for reasons discussed, plus providing basically no content since then except attacking me to try to slow their own wagon.

sircakez - theres nothing i have seen from cakez i particularly dislike, going to give him space to get going.

bloodb0t - i didnt like 981, like really really didnt like, but dont feel like pushing a pr is likely to go anywhere and id rather focus on unowen at the moment

Besides, I have a so much worse player to murder

Vote: Meowth

This is an attrocious reads list. On all notes. But MOST OF ALL.

this is literally a scum claim. "done nothing of note" Lie. "NAI as either alignment, like Pooky. ... TOWN FOR NOW?"

Kill this with fire, please.

Cakez skipping over this steaming pile of horse manure we call a reads list and onto Bingle piggybacking from my interaction but refusing to engage me or listen to me on the finer points of that interaction feels weird.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm fine with dueling wagons.

I'm also fine with Ausaka being pushed because that slot reeks to high heaven.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want to see Bingle pressure response that isn't "I wish we had talked this out days ago" because that felt like disengaging me instead of letting me drive him into the dirt.

I want to see Meowth response because that reads list is self contradictory and feels very faked.

I want to see Ausaka response to pressure because their posting feels passive and weak, like they're engaging only with comfortable things and barely giving anything.

Additionally the Ausaka asking Meowth a question they had barely answered themselves thing was ???

I want to see Cakez under pressure because short circuiting all the pressure I had on them in an attempt to read them early with an OOG AtE made me want to give them space but also straight up killed my WIM and feels like a move scum could use.

I want to see STD under pressure because Nono's posting was garbage and STD's entry was essentially a bunch of one liners giving random opinions and never having to actually engage.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That's the 5 slots I'm most concerned with/wanting to kill today. Meowth is the newest one because holy fuck that reads list is bad.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

not doing anything but defending yourself and not hunting for scum is not alignment indicative?

asking others to explain their dubious reads on me is not hunting for scum?

Got scum pings from this post. This feels like the kind of defensive BS I post when I get pushed as scum.

do you think that std *wasn't* misrepping me there?

like, do you think that nono and furtive's scumreads on me were reasonable / understandable? and that i shouldn't have asked about them?

Like this is a good example of my Cakez is suspicious to me.

Cakez of all people, given their claims, should know it's VERY POSSIBLE for a townie to feel like they have to defend themselves instead of actually hunting scum.
I got yelled at for that exact reason THIS GAME.

STD should know this is a thing even good town players do sometimes, see:

THE NEWBIE WE JUST FINISHED WHERE STD WAS SCUM AND I WAS STUCK IN THIS MODE ALL GAME.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

HotD

speaking of - you got to unowen's alignment in that game p quickly. are you townreading him here?

Uh, not yet actually. I hadn't considered there to be a correlation between that until you brought it up. He was fully in the "not giving me town pings, not being overtly scummy" mess in the middle that large games always have for me, but maybe it does mean something I haven't seen it yet this game?

But I don't play on meta so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm also fine with Ausaka being pushed because that slot reeks to high heaven.

why? StD said the same thing but no one is explaining it and I would like it if it was bc Ausuka is one of my few TRs this game.

The slot is hyper passive. It says nothing of note, it does nothing to shape the game. It feels like to me, the slot is trying to coast along and say ENOUGH THINGS TO LIVE.

Which isn't townie. Townies don't think that way. Townies actually hunt.

the Meowth question was weird, the UNOwen discussion was listless.

Ausaka reads like a scum who is trying to coast through the game unseen and now that they are seen they're trying to get enough people to town read them on tone to not die.

But they just aren't actually SAYING anything.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i like recent cakez posts tbh i don't think scum goes and tries to start a binglewagon

meowth what was scummy about my entrance?

Even piggybacked off my calling him scum there, thinking I might join and push it too?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i dunno. cakez is tricky. i was pretty sure he was scum in legends of business but i was wrong there. im trying to see if theres anything different about his play and if anything he feels slightly more present but still not like exerting thread control or being the main poster

I feel like I'm going to have a hard time reading cakez this game because I had a cakez read in my grasp and then the whole OOG AtE thing happened and it ate my WIM and all the pressure on that slot and now people are just townbinning it and I'm not sure that's a good idea but I literally can't commit to pushing the slot because of what happened because I don't want to destroy my WIM again, and on top of that it might be kind of like, biased on my part to see scum there given everything so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Thank you for proving my point better than I could even begin to state it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

so it's bitterness about being caught when those comments are about a playstyle you're adapting that you're turning into a personal attack because...?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can we just kill Ausuka then? Because I don't want to have to be in a game with this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah, my dude. YOUR POSTING SAYS NOTHING. YOU STAND FOR NOTHING.

ALL YOU DO IS WAIT FOR SOMEONE TO POKE YOU AND TAKE OFFENSE.

like FUCK. me calling your posting weak isn't calling YOU weak so WHY ARE YOU MAKING IT THAT WAY

[Lady Lambdadelta]

so tired of this

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can we just kill Ausuka then? Because I don't want to have to be in a game with this.

she's more likely town than not and it's not a pro-town thing to be limming her slot right now

I don't know. I think it's pretty pro-town.

also, Ausuka can absolutely be scum here using this as a defense method. You KNOW that's true.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can we just kill Ausuka then? Because I don't want to have to be in a game with this.

she's more likely town than not and it's not a pro-town thing to be limming her slot right now

still thinking nothing actually productive comes from pushing/poking ausuka this way

how would you sort ausuka then?

yeah wait wtf Datisi?

One breathe you say "nothing comes of sorting Ausuka this way" and next breath you're very confident she's town?

Where did this magical town read come from, Datisi?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

still thinking nothing actually productive comes from pushing/poking ausuka this way

how would you sort ausuka then?

Bullets?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

earlier this game, i took another look at the large normal where she was scum and i didn't really find that she was quick to concede or yield as she has been this game

i'm not saying she *can't* be scum here. of course she can, anyone can at this point. but knowing ausuka's meta and knowing her from outside of game, i think (1) she is more likely to react in this passive of a manner when she's town than when she's scum - as scum, she's aware she has to be the antagonist so there isn't any "guilt" attached to being attacked or defending herself, while as town there would be, (2) if she is town, she's going to just shut down if you keep shitting on her and you're never going to find her, and that's a potential misyeet that could've been avoided by giving some air

okay hold the fuck up

"keep shitting on her"?

I literally for the first time expressed my desire to see this slot pressured TODAY.

the FIRST TIME I SAID. ANYTHING about this beyond agreeing with pooky to kill a bunch of players.

And this is her response.

this is not "i'm so frustrated you keep tunneling me"

this is "you called my posts weak, so you're calling me weak so I'm going to behave as a petulant child might".

I won't accept this narrative that we've pushed this slot too hard and now this player is upset and can't play. It's false.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah, my dude. YOUR POSTING SAYS NOTHING. YOU STAND FOR NOTHING.

ALL YOU DO IS WAIT FOR SOMEONE TO POKE YOU AND TAKE OFFENSE.

like FUCK. me calling your posting weak isn't calling YOU weak so WHY ARE YOU MAKING IT THAT WAY

It's calling me weak in the context of this game!? Of course it's not a personal insult and I didn't take it as one.
And the rest is just like whatever dude I really don't think this comes from a genuine perspective at all because I have posted like plenty of stuff which you haven't tried to engage with. I am confident in saying I have posted more meaningful content than you have this game.

...

Yeah, okay.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I literally for the first time expressed my desire to see this slot pressured TODAY.

yeah, first time YOU did. are you reading the game? how many times others have done it?

Why the fuck does it matter what others do in this circumstance when her response to my suggestion I want votes and pressure there is to fucking flip out on me and insult me and make the game completely unfun for me, Datisi?

It feels tactical.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ok should I remove all emotion and say

"this looks like Datisi scum is chainsawing a townie that he has TMI on"

and just kill you instead?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, if she's really town, Datisi, you look AWFUL here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I won't accept this narrative that we've pushed this slot too hard and now this player is upset and can't play. It's false.

i'm assuming you don't know her like i do.

but i am telling you - approaching her in "bad faith" and antagonizing her is not going to get her engaged you want her to.

bad faith my ass

I approached in good faith got fucking insulted

I'm so fucking done with this shit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Antagonizing her in WHAT WAY?

In the way that they think she's scum? And are PLAYING MAFIA?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I get this is your personal friend and all but I am the LAST person you want to do this shit with because it's not like the fucking rage inside ever died, I just feed it and keep it away from everything because it's not healthy.

But I can feel my fucking blood pressure rising right now

[Lady Lambdadelta]

bad faith my ass

i put bad faith in quotation marks because it's not the exact word i'm looking for, but i can't think of a better one.

"lack of benefit of the doubt" is probably more accurate

Antagonizing her in WHAT WAY?

In the way that they think she's scum? And are PLAYING MAFIA?

i think it's pretty clear that if you include her in a post where you kinda talk about her being scum but don't mainly push her and don't go anywhere with it and don't properly engage her, it's gonna seem antagonizing. i would've read it the same way.

I get this is your personal friend and all but I am the LAST person you want to do this shit with because it's not like the fucking rage inside ever died, I just feed it and keep it away from everything because it's not healthy.

But I can feel my fucking blood pressure rising right now

i didn't want to "do" anything "with" you here. i wanted to help you read someone that i think i have more knowledge on how to read than you do and for whom i think your approach will be hugely ineffective and maybe even counterproductive.

i didn't mean to make you angry. i'm sorry if i said anything you found insulting.

i'm getting upset by this, so i will take a break from this game now.

you're not helping anything

I gave a list of 5 players I suspected. I only have one vote and it's on Meowth right now. How the hell am I meant to also vote Ausuka?

It's not randomly prodding to be antagonizing and if you would have taken it the same way too then you're both wrong. I'm allowed to call someone scum while I vote someone else that's literally how the game works.

I did it in HotD when I called Mastina scum while I voted you.

And I need a break too, but in truth this concept that you're here to "help me read" this slot and not to "defend this slot against all transgressors" is untrue.

You didn't come here to help me read this slot if you did it would have been a discussion about why I felt a certain way. Instead it was an argument about your meta AFTER YOU LITERALLY READ THAT I SAID I DON'T DO META.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

stop capsing

No?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

stop capsing

furtive no offense but what the fuck is the point of this post

they said i was being rude in the council thread and now i realize they're just being cruel about my typing style and use of caps for emphasis.

i was like "how am i being rude" and they didn't answer and so now i get it.

i'm... so tired

[Lady Lambdadelta]

okay i didn't say you're not allowed to do it, i'm pointing out how it looks like from someone's pov who's already getting scumreads.

i thought it meant "i don't make reads based on meta" not "i ignore literally everything that someone else says that's related to meta" but whatever

no i mean my stance on meta is "all meta can be faked" so i don't use it personally or for others

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also yeah i'm done with the game for a bit

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also I don't mean to stir anything up if we had hit a natural endpoint to the conversation I mostly felt compelled to express that I TR Datisi's last few pages quite strongly and felt I had to address the overall conversation to explain that read without it coming across as dismissive to LLD's point of view

nah i appreciate it, i jsut um

i need a little bit

i'll get back to you to engage with you on it when i'm not... anyway

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD: starts capsing and swearing again

Dude. Not helping. Not ever going to help.

If you think LLD is being too aggressive, respectfully ask her to cool down. Passive aggressive sniping will only ever make the situation worse.

You misunderstand.

Helping isn't the goal here. Furtive went out of his way to insult me in the council thread, and when I didn't back down and bend to his will, he decided to do this passive aggressive schtick where he insults me for how I speak and write the whole game.

It's just one of the really cool things you get to experience as a (trans) woman in Mafia. I'll wait for him to buck up to a dude like this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cause I don't remember Furtive saying a single thing when Cakez popped off and got upset, but when I use caps for emphasis and explain that and play even a little aggressively in a mafia game, how dare I

it's suddenly rude and if I don't agree with that and I don't agree to abide by his definition of what acceptable play should be, he spends the next series of posts he writes attempting to bait me into angry conversations because he knows it bothers me.

It's not game related, it's not alignment related.

It's just a personal beef because I told him no.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

she had low wim because she pushed cakes and he smashed the ate button and told her that she was making the game miserable for him.

not sure if this is directed at me, but im not saying anything good or bad about it, i said it was nai
but i cant read lld until she is engaged with the game, i read her based on how she influences the game
even if she were heavily involved d1 i probably still wouldn't try to read her until later in the game, same as you
so by simple probability, im calling you both town until we get to a point where i can actually make some conclusions about your alignment
as i made clear earlier, on d1 im interested in the easy to sort players

His point was that I was the player who made the first move in breaking out of RVS and there was a whole mountain of evidence that people felt comfortable enough to read me on to elect me treasurer, so saying that I have nothing in this game readable is questionable.

follow up, even if it were true I had nothing in the game readable, it's suspicious to call me town with nothing, even when you say that's your plan.

that's the point

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cause I don't remember Furtive saying a single thing when Cakez popped off and got upset, but when I use caps for emphasis and explain that and play even a little aggressively in a mafia game, how dare I

it's suddenly rude and if I don't agree with that and I don't agree to abide by his definition of what acceptable play should be, he spends the next series of posts he writes attempting to bait me into angry conversations because he knows it bothers me.

It's not game related, it's not alignment related.

It's just a personal beef because I told him no.

and I'm not going to take that bait.

I'm ALLOWED TO USE CAPS when I want, and I'm not being rude when I punctuate what I say with fuckin' swears.

and I wish people would stop tone policing what is generally normal fuckin' conversation.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Helping isn't the goal here.

Yeah, I kinda got a sense of that, and I'm weighing in to say knock it off. Can't honestly say that I know what the experience is for a (trans) woman in mafia or what's happened in the pt, but I'm definitely getting a sense of furtive wanting to be/be seen as the reasonable guy trying to disarm toxicity when the way he's going about it is just going to make things more toxic.

Anyway, I think it's best for everyone involved if we just drop this line of discussion for now and agree to treat each other like adults who can understand how to ask each other politely to chill out if it becomes necessary.

I'd personally prefer that too, it's why I walked away but I have a hard time walking away and not re-checking the thread and when I saw this...

yeah.

What happened in the PT is I said I wanted to vig Ausuka and Furtive responded calling me rude and more or less implying I was doing something morally wrong.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

hmmm

I am losing confidence in meowth scumread but I am not sure if that's a good or correct thing

I will think and do more later

I still think the reads list was baloney. I don't get the take on me and I find it suspicious even with clarification.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

follow up, even if it were true I had nothing in the game readable, it's suspicious to call me town with nothing, even when you say that's your plan.

/shrug

maybe its suspicious to you but it is how i prefer to go about things
imo, theres too much to track on d1, you have to focus efforts to make progress
dont really see the difference with saying town to be resorted later vs just calling you null
the point of thinking of you and pooky is town is to just let you both lead and get shot and then i dont have to try to sort the players that can snow me

Mmm. Then why bother saying I've done nothing when that's provably false?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can't honestly say that I know what the experience is for a (trans) woman in mafia

Actually, I can say that I kind of do have somewhat of an understanding from second hand observation of ETL's gender experiment thing in 2014, but that's a whole other can of worms that isn't directly related to this game. If you're interested, she made a publicly male alt to see how it changed the reactions of people to her play and found that as a whole people were more willing to be aggressive with her and way more willing to listen to her reads, which is fucking sad, tbh. She also confused the fuck out of me cause I kept getting this weird sense that the brand new player knew me way too well.

Yeah I'm not remotely surprised by this. The reason (trans) was in brackets, as I'm sure you picked up was that I suspect this often has a lot more to do with gender norms than it does with trans shit, but the fact I am trans does matter here. I have some aspect of male socialization growing up, and the way I am is the way I am so it's hard for me to be like "oh yes let me conform to your view of what civility should be".

I feel I'm being very civil, in a game about arguments. I'm having arguments. I don't agree with people. I'm allowed to express that without having to do a fuckin' curtsey every time I engage.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Mmm. Then why bother saying I've done nothing when that's provably false?

nothing, relatively speaking, compared to my previous experience with you

So you're essentially saying "there is a lack of LLD thread control on day 1 in comparisson to prior outings of LLD".

That's.... not what you wrote, you understand that right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That's.... not what you wrote, you understand that right?

i thought it was close enough to get the point across, but sure

Definitely not given I was not the only one who misinterpreted it this way.

I also have NO FUCKIN' CLUE who the hell you are? Which is fine you don't have to tell me, but do understand it colours the way I view you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I also have NO FUCKIN' CLUE who the hell you are? Which is fine you don't have to tell me, but do understand it colours the way I view you.

i dont think that particularly matters.
it would if i were

trying to use meta to sort you,

which i was explicitly saying i was not doing
what i said (or meant to express at least),

was i dont have enough info on lld yet to sort so im going to wait until d3 to see if she gets shot before i worry about it
but it doesnt really work if i say exactly that so i said something kind of similar instead

is.....isn't this meta?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i need a butterfly meme for this

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I also have NO FUCKIN' CLUE who the hell you are? Which is fine you don't have to tell me, but do understand it colours the way I view you.

i dont think that particularly matters.
it would if i were

trying to use meta to sort you,

which i was explicitly saying i was not doing
what i said (or meant to express at least),

was i dont have enough info on lld yet to sort so im going to wait until d3 to see if she gets shot before i worry about it
but it doesnt really work if i say exactly that so i said something kind of similar instead

is.....isn't this meta?

it is meta that changes how i approach you, not how i am currently reading you

BUTTERFLY MEME

I NEED A BUTTERFLY MEME STAT

(i get it, i guess. not sure if it changes how i feel about your slot, but i get the argument you're making now, at least)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Flagging this now: It's good to change around all the council roles, but especially the Treasurer. Treasurer is especially important because we need to make sure scum can't lie and repeatedly underfund. I'm not saying I scumread LLD though.

yeah after days of you harassing me, i don't buy that this isn't just you trying to get someone else in power.

I'm fine to get audited at a later date, but we should limit how much scum knows about how the money works, and more treasurers is more chance scum knows the whole of the mechanic and gets to fuck with it.

My money records can be very cleanly kept and auditted by having players who receieve money claim how much they get and looking at my final total and per day earnings.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So why believe Enchant, he sucks at the game.

I happen to have more faith in Pooky's mechanical skills than yours (partly from actually reviewing Pooky's setups), and have now received independent confirmation from two separate members of the council. I still think LLD's "We can't share this information" is unwarranted and either paranoia or a measured attempt to hide useful information from town (jury's out) but frankly we don't have the time for me to figure that out this phase.

From what I remember of setups you've put forward, they tend to be swingy and often have significant balance/play issues. I'm sorry if my impression of your talents offends you, but I don't particularly consider you a mechanical expert, no.

I also don't townread you.

I made my argument before. No argument you have presented since then amounts to anything but "but I'm really good at this stuff guys!" which... okay, get elected next round for all I care. Fuck it, take Treasurer from me and then see if you agree with me on this point or not.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ali can't read me worth shit it appears

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ali do you understand the only reason Meowth is still alive and not dead is because the entire game is waiting for LLD to finalize the budget so we can lim Meowth and move on to day 2?

if LLD is mafia why is she just twiddling her thumbs and making us bored af instead of i dunno just submitting some shit and letting us go to day two already.

yeah i don't get it either

i'm literally agonizing over choice paralysis on funding actions and it's the only thing keeping us held up lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Whopper whopper whopper whopper

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We can walk!

(They can walk!)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh look. Another player who takes issue with the plan, then gets told that the plan is maximizing the odds that scum don't know anything for the moment even if it's less likely, and then has no answer for that but "oh, yeah, it's fine".

Like...

It's almost as if I made a good plan and the only thing keeping it is that I have choice paralysis.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD can you DECIDE already

ahh fine fine fine

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oh yeah it's fine

dfl;zskfdszjh

ahhahahahahha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lld no pressure. the fate of the entire game hangs in the balance of your choices. like if you mess this up today, you will screw us over for the rest of the game. but no pressure.

pain.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

anyway i submitted my choices.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cakez was a vig shot that I took via Pooky.

I funded Enchant for 110 and Pooky for 103 last night.

there is [redacted] still left in the coffers.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I knew LLD would order a vig shot, and I knew Enchant would die. That was incredibly stupid. Waste of a check if you don't protect the Cop

mafia shooting enchant is fine by us? and they have to outguess us now.

One night, a treasurer should infact fund cop+doc and hope scum shoot into it.

But enchant wasn't particularly townie and the meta of "we will not always protect the cop" is a way to maximimze protecting the cop

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Pooky didn't offer any pushback to shooting Cakez?

he let me pick, specifically

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right, here comes the mass of people who didn't want to flip Meowth yesterday

HEY WHAT DID MEOWTH FLIP AGAIN?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

OH NO MEOWTH IS A BAD ELIMINATION.

OH NO LLD IS A CLOWN

I'm the only one who has actually killed a scum so far so IDFK what your problem is, lmfao.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Enchant was an easy townread for me and I said as much.

Yeah but you and Gimli are sus AF for the anti-meowth shit you did yesterday and the way you setup on it.

It's just a shame neither of you were in the list we made with pooky because I'd have shot one of you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The amount of unwarranted ego and attitude in these players (LLD, Pooky) is baffling.

you are literally insulting people, trolling people and taunting people all game.

while you've proven literal nothing

[Lady Lambdadelta]

intent to declare for sheriff
are there any other things from overnight we're waiting for?

nah i gave all the info right away

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And like why would town Pooky ever be happy or willing to defer the shot

because i'm the one takigng the accountability.

it was MY vig shot. Pooky was just loaning it to me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But if you're both town then you don't know Pooky's alignment and he doesn't know yours

So that agreement should not have been mutual and now we're in a situation where scum in either one of you means scum got a free kill

Did you indicate at all in any fashion who you thought you might want to vig prior to Pooky agreeing to that

The way it worked was I set out 5 names.

5 names I could vig.

And depending on what number I funded to pooky, pooky shot that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

SleepyKrew
Ausuka(Xof)
Bingle
Cakez
STD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Those were the 5 names.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And like why would town Pooky ever be happy or willing to defer the shot

It was the dodgiest thing ever. Pooky offloaded responsibility by offering to let LLD 'QB' the NAs by WASTING money to code exactly who to target and what to do, and obviously LLD was like yeah I know exactly what to do - everyone else in the council was like "oh yeah cool plan" even tho I said it wasted money, and I said it was obvious to doc the cop. It was so obvious that LLD was not in a good state of mind, and was literally saying I want to shoot Ausuka all day so I knew she would use the vig rashly. I'm so annoyed. Pooky really slyly took advantage.

you don't get to comment on my state of mind being poor as the one responsible for that tbh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's just a shame neither of you were in the list we made with pooky because I'd have shot one of you.

wait you made the list yourself? like not you and pooky together?

yes i literally made the list myself.

all the accountability was on me. All of it. It was my vig shot. Pooky just enabled it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Page 5: LLD insists on vigging Ausuka, using unsavoury language. I say that it's rude, argument about that ensues. Pooky fans the flames of this vig stuff and says he's more than happy, telling LLD to give him 5 names and 5 corresponding funding amounts. Pooky insists he will never doc Enchant - if scum kill Enchant they're 'throwing' apparently, calls doccing them a big waste.

Hmmmmm.

Unsavoury language. UNSAVOURY LANGUAGE?

One fucking second

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I said

"Boy do I want to fund a vig that shoots the frog"

And

"I want to shoot Ausuka

I just don't want to play with this anymore."

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That is. IT.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

... Its the same fucking thing.

Its the SAME FUCKING THING

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can you clutch your pearls somewhere else

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if we're going to put me back on the council why wouldn't you put me back in treasurer to prevent info on how that works from going to others

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm going to reiterate and make explicit why I just don't want some null slot as cop.

We likely have the ability to fund 3 roles tonight. Both JOATs have a doc. The Treasurer can dictate which Joat uses what doc via the incremental numbers strategy. We should expect the cop to survive. That's benefit #1. The other is I'd like to have a cop check with some confidence comes from town so we trust it and don't have to Elim the cop to do so completely.

You don't understand the mechanic at all.

You will see, I guess.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Should I just out the treasurer mechanic at this point?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Should I just out the treasurer mechanic at this point?

I’m not opposed, but you can at least give a y/n/m on “can we use 3 abilities tonight”.

It's theoretically possible but it's almost certainly a hard No.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

SleepyKrew
Ausuka(Xof)
Bingle
Cakez
STD

excuse ze moi? you were considering me?

Nono was bad my dude lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the part im missing is whether the funding is public or private info to the council

Private, but informed to all members who receive their funding.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but i'm too cute to die

yeah mabye

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the part im missing is whether the funding is public or private info to the council

Private, but informed to all members who receive their funding.

okay maybe i'm dumb but you're saying "if you received funding, you knew how much you got" here not "everyone who had their roles funded knew how much everyone got"

it's the first one

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's theoretically possible but it's almost certainly a hard No.

In that case, we should definitely stay the course on scummy cop pool for at least one more night.

it doesn't get better from here

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Nah

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I'm not gonna slot myself into cop and get shot in the fucking face for no good reason when I can affect the gamestate better from outside that position.

We put scummy people in the cop slot.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sure

Declare: Council Member

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am thinking I will vote

Treasurer - Bingle
Sherriff - Sleepykrew
Mayor - STD
Council Member - UNOwen
Trash Collector - pooky

discuss

Not electing me Council member over UNOwen is genuinely suspicious

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean I think both of you are likely town but I think UNOwen is clearly not scum with meowth whereas you did vig a townie

I don't think that really makes you scum at all but if I'm choosing between <5% chance at scum and <10% chance at scum I go with the less than 5%

Thinking that Meowth dies that day by anyone but my hands is ridiculous. Any name I pick yesterday dies. I have enough vote support to kill anyone.

Saying I vigged a townie as the reason is ridiculous. I singlehandedly put a nail in the coffin of scum, when I had my full target selection.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I didn't even mishandle the budget lmfao

you recognize our doctors are one shot right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I didn't even mishandle the budget lmfao

you recognize our doctors are one shot right?

No? But you shot an aspiring trashman, who could've provided the town with a quality service it was clearly lacking with furtive. Now our only hope is to put the former mayor in the position!

I shot a player I suspected was scummy that I couldn't push onto anymore because it destroyed my WIM the last time I tried.

I funded a cop who was suspicious already and might live regardless and even if they were town, which they were, scum had to outguess the doctor usage AND choose to kill a mis-eliminatable slot for us.

It was a win-win-win for the PoE tbh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The only better move I would have had would have been NOT to fund Enchant and predict scum would shoot there somehow, and fund someone else.

But predicting that is literally impossible since the first level of it requires me to believe Enchant is town... and then not want to fund a town cop. Neither of these are good strategies lol.

So while mechanically optimal to say fund like, IDK. Tracker+Vig instead, it only happens if I have perfect info so I'm comfortable with my monetary choices.

What I'm not comfortable is you playing them off as poor for the sake of your election campaign bit here, hiding behind making jokes about it while devaluing town's confidence in the choices I made.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The entire playerlist has lost its sanity now. I wait for better days

Common Denominator is... oh look at that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if you didnt fund enchant he would spend all day whining about it in the pt and then furtive probly doesnt shoot him at night

oh you're right ahahahah

[Lady Lambdadelta]

frankly I don't truly care who is council member between UNOwen or LLD I think both are town in vast majority of worlds here

if it's better to keep someone with mech knowledge on the council I can switch to LLD, I suppose that is a check on scum!Bingle possibly lying about treasurer info (which I also think is extremely unlikely)

it is likely better, though i also sympathize with wanting to spread the ability to interact with the cool mechanic around? Like.

my town instincts say monopolize power i trust me most

my personal moral instincts say "i don't want to make this game unfun for people"

so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The only better move I would have had would have been NOT to fund Enchant and predict scum would shoot there somehow, and fund someone else.

I mean... also would have been better to give pooky a number option to protect Enchant and then vig anyway, but yeah.

...okay yes that is probably true in an optimal but not statistical world.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As an incredible nerd, I have to point out it's true in a statistical world as well. It's the whole point of a Nash equilibrium. You actively want a nonzero chance (or the appearance of one) you will play suboptimally so that the opposition can't simply assume you'll play optimally and be right.

My brother in christ I literally made this argument in the day 1 council thread do not talk down to me about game theory I will throttle pirate bunny i stg lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

*binky

[Lady Lambdadelta]

do not talk down to me about game theory

I talk down to everyone about game theory. Especially people who literally design games for a living.

I'm going to scream.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

is LLD even a scumread

I thought she was, but looking back he's never once drifted from the narrative that she's just somehow being incredibly shit. That's... odd.

even more odd when you consider just recently in the Xyzzy game of "I made this game in 2019" Furtive Hydra recruited me into that game to work with them, and I salvaged a scum win from a pretty lost looking game and more or less laid out my whole strategy for the game to them and showed them a win path.

So they know I'm competent, even beyond just reputation. so slotting me into "bad" is... well it's hard to believe they actually believe that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bingle SleepyKrew STD LLD Pooky GL

These are my votes, and you can copy me Xof.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bingle SleepyKrew STD LLD Pooky GL

These are my votes, and you can copy me Xof.

Okies.

I think you should vote the opposite of what she's suggesting

Why is that?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Furtiveglance

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: LLD

lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bingle
STD
UNOwen
GL
Pooky

Why did you vote Owen over me again?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

SK gonna survive 2 days.

Pedit: I think you're both town, but wanted to contribute to shock value in case UNowen did actually win

lol

that's hilarious actually

i want to see the vote count for me and owen

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: LLD

lol

What's your take on xofelf?

Town, probably.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: LLD

lol

What's your take on xofelf?

Town, probably.

Why - as in compared to Ausuka and opinion on the "slip" theory?

The slip theory is sort of ridiculous and feels like it's being concocted or utilized by scum to push on Xof.

Xof's literally not fighting back and that looks town.

Compared ot Ausuka, Xof's showing actual read progression.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I never really cared about a slip my push on xof is slipless

can you sell me on why xof isn't even bothering to defend themselves?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Have you never seen scum not defend themselves to look townie

yes but not like this

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What do you think Xofelf scum would do. Perhaps preempting a general answer, what would Xof's defense look like.

Can I answer this lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I feel like Elli would be scared of the AI Risk tbh.

Also, ask ChatGPT about me in terms of Mafia. :3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i just wanna know what chatGPT has to say about my playstyle and history as a mafia player lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

me too I really want that deep dive

i so wanna see it

yo deep dive me with chatGPT lorne

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I still can't help but laugh but think the top players that ChatGPD says when you feed it who are the best players on MU it spits out an actual MU user, me, GE, Kdowns, and Cephrir.
Who I can tell there's more too I wanna read the rest of that

Tenshii
Malcolm
Thingyman
Bious
Solstice
Silver
Rhand
Zachstronaut
Ghosty
Aronis

ARONIS LMFAO

oh my GOD ahahaha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

no cap tho I think it would be cool to try to figure out who the all time top 100 MS players are. I imagine it's pretty hard to objectively rate this aside from looking at like winrate and stuff but that would be super fun to read

i could pretty easily do this from my PoV but like, people might get upsetti.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was literally thinking of taking the top 100 players in no particular order, giving them stat lines based upon like, a series of skills and maybe a couple of special moves and then running a simulated outcome where we roll like, a bunch of different games hundreds of times and see what happens.

But that requires me finding someone who is willing to work with me on a mafia simulation bot lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This player thinks I'm a rank 90 when I should be ranked 89?
WRONG
DISAGREE
INVALID

don't worry ali you're rank 69

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So, for role related reasons, I think LLD is townier than she was yesterday. I could maybe explain this, but I think there's a specific value in leaving it vague. tl;dr it has to do with statistical likelihoods about the treasurer role and me getting a bit of information that I don't think LLD would have realized I'd get explicitly. To firm up this evidence, open call to anyone in the PT yesterday: how explicit was LLD with how much funding she could give?

2 roles only, more and we are in a bad position later. Paraphrasing

this is accurate

[Lady Lambdadelta]

wot's all dis den

i'm so high b'y ahahhaha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

what's after happenin now b'ys fr fr on god