Weather Mafia II (GAME OVER)

[singersigner]

DrippingGoofball is town.

[singersigner]

I don't know what you want me to counterclaim/vote for. There's no guilty on me, so...

Unless you mean MattP's claim I'm mafia, which he was pushing for most of D1. He's either following up on that or preparing himself for a soft claim, meaning he's mafia. Though I tend not to take anything he says seriously, so I'm inclined to believe hea just following up with the only read he thinks he can get people to push today. None of his other ones took.

I honestly haven't read up on anything. But I'd like to know what out replacements have to say-especially those who replaced over night.

[singersigner]

Hmm. It's a shame that Nuwen replaced out, after the day ended yesterday I really wanted to question her for her massive defense of BBmolla.

I don't know that Nuwen defended him anymore than I did (to Tierce at least that I recall). Why only bring up Nuwen?

[singersigner]

because I'm on the fence about Kats and there are better fish to fry than a serial lurker who lurkaderps his way into replacement regardless of alignment

Kats has to die eventually because I don't want him in LYLO, but I don't know that I see him as buddies with either of the flipped scum

Can you explain this? I'm not exactly sure I see the point in first saying that you don't think someone should be lynched, and then saying you want someone lynched eventually...but then you don't think they're scum...

It also concerns me because you don't want him in LYLO but we don't exactly know what LYLO is with this setup, so how to you propose to deal with that situation?

It just feels very wishy-washy-on-the-fence-don't-want-to-commit to me.

Preview Edit:
Fair enough.

[singersigner]

The problem is not knowing when LYLO is, so you don't think he's scum, but you also want him dead before you know when it's "safe" to lynch or vig him...

It honestly sounds like he's a policy lynch for you...but I think it's a little bit too late to start backhanding a PL, don't you think? Unless you're simply trying to discredit him so no one will listen to him...

Preview Edit:
Who's that directed at?

[singersigner]

@MattP...people who dismiss your opinions are people who don't think they're valid. "So and so doesn't agree with me so they must be scum" is a huge fallacy that you've fallen privy to; however, I'm not dismissing your opinions, I'm saying they're wrong, therefore I can't take you seriously. I really don't see the problem with that...

Do you even remember why you thought I was scum? Other than the three reasons that I invalidated already?

@Tierce...rereading, what...

@kuribo...here's the thing about policy lynches: they're on people you have a moral disposition with, i.e. liars, VIs, etc. This is the impression I got when you said you wanted him dead, because you say "I don't want him in LYLO" but you think he's town. What are you afraid of, and why don't you want him in LYLO?

@Benmage...honestly, I forgot katsuki was in the game. And I haven't been able to download the cashe of the first day (hasn't really been on my list of priorities). I know the things I need to know about the people I want to know about, and that's about it.

I'd really like people who aren't caught up to catch up, though. Not everyone's posted, and there are a couple people I'd like to hear from in particular.

[singersigner]

First of all, don't tell me to reread if you can't even read in the first place. I said I don't remember Nuwen defending BBMolla

anymore than I did

--admitting that I was defending him to you quite a bit myself, to which I was referring when I questioned why Yos only pointed out Nuwen's defense as opposed to mine.

Second of all, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO JUST REPLACED IN AND PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T EVEN POSTED YET MEANING THEY HAVEN'T EVEN READ THE PAST FIVE PAGES.

Third of all, I said it wasn't on my list of priorities to download it yet. Not that I wasn't going to do it. Rereading=/=reading for the first time.

Geez, get off your high horse and figure out what you really want to argue about. THEN come talk to me.

[singersigner]

So you're denying that there was any snark in your post, nor intent to discredit my behavior?

[singersigner]

Oh shit I forgot to bookmark the new thread. Read these (thankfully few) pages tomorrow!!

Looked at the flips and I think it's interesting that snifit is a cyborg; would that qualify as organic or inorganic? He didn't have either qualifier (and neither does my role).

It's interesting because yesterday, kuribo claimed to be human and therefore organic. I think that's probably the case, whatever his alignment. Kuribo, do you have an organic qualifier?

Is anyone else's character something that is organic and town?

Its not the fishing of this post that led me to quote it and re-confirmed my scumread.

Its the forced tone of it. "Oh shit I forgt to bookmark! Reading this tomorrow!!" double exlamation marks are scummy and ingeniune.


Then she goes on to set-up speculate? Of all the things to post she cares about flips and whether shit is organic or not? The FUCK does that matter?

Do you see any sign of scumhunting in this post? Any SEMBLANCE of reads from yesterday or today?

Yeah.

No.

It dies.

I'm not used to what just conspired in this post.

[singersigner]

Pretty sure I meant transpired...

Preview Edit:
Yes, several times, that's why I'm not used to reasons...that was one of the most passive and well thought out posts I've ever seen from him...

[singersigner]

daykilling scum?

hascow was once a daykilling scum who shot his own partner while faking a post restriction. I've been scarred. Daykill =/= town.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING.

Like I pointed out before, that last game I was in, that Reck so kindly pointed out as the mod, I was ON A SCUMTEAM WITH A DAYKILLING SCUM.

Anyone fighting to confirm his towniness or thinks I'm scummy for merely pointing out how wrongwrongwrong it is to continue working under the assumption that he is conftown (this was mostly at the end of D1, btw), is a silly turd nugget.

[singersigner]

ITS FUCKING BENMAGE

he's always transparent as fuck

I've never once played with Benmage. How am I supposed to know that? What exactly about his play is so OBVTOWNLULZ.

Benmage shot Reck from scumteam red in the face early on day 1, right at at time when Reck was doing backflips to try to get BBmolla lynched; and then helped lynch scumteam-blue BBMolla at a key point at the end of the day, putting him at 7 votes to UT's 5 votes when Benmange could have put them at a 6 and 6 tie instead. Benmage is very unlikely to be scum with either scum group at this point.

I respond much better to logic like this.

Is he prone to bussing? Admittedly I'm not familiar with his play.

I don't actually think he's scum, but that's also just gut. My fight to not let people assume he's town is to prove that you can't just use his dayvig as "proof" that he is. Fate also makes a compelling argument. >_>

I'm somewhere around post 780, and I'm getting singer as fairly obvscum, so, uhh

She lurks as scum.

I do know that
I also know that I've read her wrong in every single game I've seen her in (whether playing or spectating)

By this logic (since I doubt you're trying to discredit yourself) you have no choice but to assume I'm town or admit you're scum pushing a mislynch.

[singersigner]

Actually, I completely agree with Tierce calling out Amrun for trying to take credit for BBmolla lynch, like she's trying to point out how townie she was for the original vote on BBmolla (which she admits was not good in the first place), but the ENTIRE wagon formed because of Tierce's die hard push on him (in hindsight, actually having "proof" of his meta).

@Amrun...please point out the specific posts that push for BBmolla's lynch--that really show you play a vital part in its success.

Right now, I'm willing to lynch Amrun, Staeg (sorry Nuwen ), or Katsuki.

[singersigner]

Ok, so Tierce already asked you to point out the posts, and you already declined, which means I can only assume you'll also decline my request.

Um.

You continue to make vague accusations and then don't substantiate them. When you don't substantiate upon request, especially by just completely ignoring, there are two options: a) you can't and you're buying time until you come up with good reasons, b) you're withholding strategically, or c) you're lazy.

Vote: Amrun

[singersigner]

Uhm I don't see scum wanting credit for a lynch. Town want the instant credit. Scum would wait and use that card later if need be.

I think the exact opposite. Scum would want to take credit instantly to make sure it's in the forefront of everyone's mind and therefore be given instant town credit to ride as long as possible, whereas town would not find that a priority.

[singersigner]

Uhm I don't see scum wanting credit for a lynch. Town want the instant credit. Scum would wait and use that card later if need be.

I think the exact opposite. Scum would want to take credit instantly to make sure it's in the forefront of everyone's mind and therefore be given instant town credit to ride as long as possible, whereas town would not find that a priority.

For example: "if need be"...she's already been called scummy by several people (implied or otherwise) and put in the spotlight. What else would she be holding out for to use this "trump card"?

[singersigner]

People are human. People like to take credit and gloat for being right.

See my comment towards a dead Reck.

There's zero strategic reasoning not to gloat as town. There is as scum.

I did, and it was scummy as fuck because you outed yourself for no reason. The only reason you'd be perfectly fine outing yourself (essentially "confirming" yourself as town, as it seemed to do), is if you knew you couldn't be NKed (by being on the night killing team), which town had no way of knowing. Then it looked scummy as fuck to ask not to be protected because you "got it covered"--which only looks like you're trying to gain town cred by "allowing" any protective roles to protect someone else, knowing that scum were less likely to be NKed.

Like I said, I was JUST in a game with daykilling scum, who just so happened to feign his disappointment at "accidentally" vigging town, which he did immediately.

But seriously, can you remind everyone what the purpose of claiming your shot on Reck was? Oh right, you admit that it's a "townie" thing to do...on behalf of yourself.

But what's the benefit to the rest of the town

?

[singersigner]

Like I said, I was JUST in a game with daykilling scum, who just so happened to feign his disappointment at "accidentally" vigging town, which he did immediately.

I know, I was totally disapointed too when Reck flipped town and Benmage killed him so this story is 100% relatable.

Was that the point? No. The point was to show that he immediately hinted that he dropped the kill and faked his disappointment to look more townie. I think Benmage could've just as easily been like RECK'S TRYING TO LYNCH MY BUDDY KILL NAO, and then conveniently enough, it was scum. I think scum have every reason to boastfully claim if they kill someone who just so happened to be on another scum team, and town wouldn't because they wouldn't want to then risk getting NKed.

People are human. People like to take credit and gloat for being right.

See my comment towards a dead Reck.

There's zero strategic reasoning not to gloat as town. There is as scum.

I did, and it was scummy as fuck because you outed yourself for no reason. The only reason you'd be perfectly fine outing yourself (essentially "confirming" yourself as town, as it seemed to do), is if you knew you couldn't be NKed (by being on the night killing team), which town had no way of knowing.

There's 2 scum teams. This only works if there's only one.

How would he have known that at the time? (hint: he didn't)

Preview Edit:
@Staeg...I don't know you to be the very reserved kind and care about what people think about your votes. Voting makes a point if you have a reason, versus posting empty threats does nothing. "I would vote you right now but since I'm not going to I'm just going to say that I would and hope people believe me and care that I said I would"?

[singersigner]

Singer; no, again. Would my vote do anything if I changed it 2 hours afterwards? Do actually answer this one, since it might seem rhetorical.

It's the significance of the act. You essentially FoSed him with no follow through at the time. Just seemed empty.

[singersigner]

if that katsuki wagon were any more obvious, it'd have people saying "im only voting katsuki to save amrun"

[singersigner]

I'm traveling again so posting's sparse. I will have more time when I'm not AT THE FRIGGIN WHITE HOUSE.

[singersigner]

Ok so I haven't had a chance to start reading. Doubt I'll have to though considering how Fate's town and stomping scum.

GAME BE EASYMODE GG NO RE

VOTE: AMRUN

Serious question: can you just replace out? I don't mean that in a bad way, but speaking from experience, I've been in too many games where I always promised to catch up an then didn't ever get the chance. It's not unheard of to get too far behind and just need to replace out (a concept I'm still gasping, lol). It's just better for everyone if you stop prod-dodging, choose which option you're taking, and commit to it.

[singersigner]

unvote

vote: Staeg

For some reason I already had it in my head that I was voting him. Amrun can wait.

[singersigner]

That's because it is in my favor.

Scum wouldn't be modifying their claims, they'd make sure to get it right the first time. Conversely, a townie would have no reason to fear doing it.

I clarified that

they made a mistake

in the interest of transparency and honesty.

Emphasis mine.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a scumclaim. "They" shows the role was discussed in a scumteam QT.

"They" should say "I". Obviously.

I wouldn't really have thought about it any differently because I refer to a single person in the generic form by "they" all the time to not have to reference gender...but then you meant you were talking about yourself, in which case you weren't talk about "they" being the mod. I probably still wouldn't have noticed until Tierce pointed it out.

i.e.
Us: HEY UBER WHAT'S YOUR PM SAY FOR YOUR ROLE
You: OH THEY MADE A MISTAKE [IN THE PM] SO THAT'S WHY I MESSED UP (brackets are implied with this meaning of "they")
Us: OH OK

But instead of talking about the mod when you say "they," you were

supposed to be

talking about yourself=scumslip.



I'm willing to lynch either Staeg or UberNinja at this point.

[singersigner]

Also, I meant to post that a while ago, but apparently I forgot to press submit before I closed my computer to travel TO RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA.

k, done.

But yeah, I realize I was kind of repetitive in what I was explaining, since kuribo pointed it out, but I figured it made it more obvious to those who missed the point.

[singersigner]

@Amrun...why is "I know he's capable of being better than this" the standard you're holding him to? People have shitty games. Hell, I more often than not play like shit, but every now and then I have an awesome game...does than mean when I play like shit you can say "she must be scum because I know she's capable of being better than this"? That has nothing to do with what he's doing in the here and now until he is ACTIVELY BEING SCUMMY. Shit reads don't hold water.

Bringing me to my next point for you and Tierce...can you explain to me how Uber's shit read on BBmolla is scum protecting their buddy and not just a shit read? As I brought up with Yos in his Nuwen-defense-comment (later clarified), I felt I was pushing against a BBmolla lynch, too...what makes UberNinja different than me?
(or can someone tell me if I just didn't defend him as much as I thought? like seriously...he's the only person I remember actively defending D1...)

[singersigner]

I was an insane cop.

What really upset me about that (as Glork is WELL AWARE), was that I specifically raped the wiki article he linked me to in my role PM (because of the cop in WMI), and found nothing that suggested I was anything but sane. Glork explained that Inspector Gadget was "always wrong" but in the article it only said he relied on help from his trusty sidekick--nothing about accuracy. =/

Anyway, aside from all that, I was really surprised DGB even made it that far on a cop "innocent." Five days. FIVE DAYS, and only the OTHER SCUM questioned it. I am glad it worked out, though, because I would've been severely disappointed if she had been able to ride that to victory, considering I felt she had done virtually nothing to back up the innocent in her play (while understanding that she has a lot going on in her life right now).

Good job in the end, though. Sorry I was obvious with my "breadcrumb" and died. I wish I had been able to get another result so I would've been able to confirm my sanity for sure. Funny thing was, Fate was my other investigation option that night. >_>