Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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In post 68, Nikanor wrote:Hey can we not do the thing where we post ten pages before the game starts.
Thanks.
Who is up for doing 20?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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Gah I'm going to end up catching up a lot with this game - too many pages happen while I sleep - and I don't even see any problems with stuff in there that people haven't already questioned.
and who actually is sunman? Can we actually go by usernames where possible because I'm damn confused.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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oh wait Alduskkel, I haven't been looking at the avatars that much, I'd still rather actual usernames though. (in case someone decides to change a avatar to be even more confusing)Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 372, DeasVail wrote:However, sometimes I may think of something townish I can do, and do that.
Is it really "hmm I can do this townish thing" before you post or "hey look this post is townie" after you post?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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This is bugging me as I don't get it and it's going to remain on my concesus for at least the rest of this RL day if not the the game day.
In post 387, Titan wrote:Noir...did you not realize that Titan and Arthur were part the same people. Probably makes you townies for that actually.
How does not realising who is posting from the wrong account make him more town?
Especially in a 30 (35 if you include that the people hidden behind hydras) person game.
I get that it should be obvious since Arthur had quoted all of his posts with the hydra head, but I'm still not sure how that makes him town.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 402, DeasVail wrote:In post 401, Cheery Dog wrote:This is bugging me as I don't get it and it's going to remain on my concesus for at least the rest of this RL day if not the the game day.
Why did you need to post this part? It suggests to me that you thought there was something wrong with asking the question. If so, what was wrong with it?
Because I don't like pying into reasons behind other people's townreads, but the reason given with this one struck me weirdly.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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Unless I don't personally have someone pegged as probable scum, it's likely I can see what reasons that sombody has for being town.
My townread's (in this case Titan) other townreads (noir) are usually people that sit at 'town until further notice' or I see as town themselves, since they're not under attack, there is no need to be asking about another player's townreads.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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In post 455, Noir wrote:actually cheery dog does look fucking terrible in light of mini 1368. it's like he hit his head or something
I'm fairly sure I started that game being award as well. My whole day 1 was full of shit.
Practically nothing has happened.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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In post 559, Titan wrote:Oh cheery dog - I spelled that wrong it was supposed to be that it made him townier as I had a leaning town read from the post. Still it stems from me thinking that scum to pay attention to things a little more and given our hydra a town read but call Arthur bad reads town to me. Why did you pick up on that for being a strange reason to give someone a town read and not me giving porfevor a town read for making me laugh?
because I skimmed over the post saying that you found them town. I asked about Noirs because the game had slowed down and I kept wondering about it.
had I looked over that post about 5 times I probably would have ended up asking about it as well.
As of now, it doesnt matter, because I have actually got the same feeling regading porfevorHolder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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I don't think I need to iso him for that to happen.
UNVOTE: ]
VOTE: paschendaleHolder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 670, Pandorica wrote:can you stop posting before you get vigged for being retarded?
Why does it matter if he is vigged?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Why does me not being vigged become problematic?
We'd be better of lynching me than vigging me (or the best option is to not kill me at all)Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In games this size and this early, who is found the most scummy is probably mostly random, even though were well past rvsHolder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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I was going to not respond, but then doing that annoys me.
The not needing to iso was about the laughing.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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Bah myultiquote failed, and now since I don't have the scum claim quoted won't use either of the quotes I tried to multiquote, and the second one will not even matter a out was going to be a pointless question anyway.
UNVOTE: VOTE: buldermarHolder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 865, Epic wrote:In post 858, Cheery Dog wrote:Bah myultiquote failed, and now since I don't have the scum claim quoted won't use either of the quotes I tried to multiquote, and the second one will not even matter a out was going to be a pointless question anyway.
UNVOTE: VOTE: buldermar
you just earned yourself a permanent spot on the scumread list
Such a pity I'm not scum then isn't it?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 891, Robocopter87 wrote:Nacho called him town.
Why do Nacho's reads mean they are the truth?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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nah you want to get scum with that, not me.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 939, Porfervor wrote:specifics idiot, im trying to actually gauge a read out of you
If I actually had names to give you, I wouldn't be voting the person that claimed scum.
I guess I can give you people I'm reading null. - some of these may have slight town points, but not enough to be removed from this list. and I'm not actually sure about all the hyrdas, but I guess they are safe for now.
Spoiler: It's a long listHolder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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I believe I just stated I didn't actually have any as such; therefore I have not deflected your question, I have just unable to answer it exactly how you want.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 953, Porfervor wrote:okay follow up question
why dont you and if you stand by your latest post then not only are you contradicting yourself but you're also terrible at making sufficient arguments
fine I'll put some effort in. maybe.
be back with the answer you are after in approx 3 hours depending on how bored I get.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Yeah it's not going to take 3 hours, I seriously don't feel up to analysing that much as it will just give me headaches full of paranoia (therefore divide the time I said it will take approx by 6)
2. combinatorialEnigma - from games they've died in, I believe I can establish that they like to post fluff as town, I have no knowledge of their scumgame.
3. Nachomamma8 - on pasch "scummy as fuck" to "town as fuck" from two posts in a row - this gives me bad vibes.
4. AurorusVox - ISO tells me nothing
5. Alduskkel - Hasn't posted since confimation stage, confirmation stage posts aren't telling me much.
7. malpascp - I fail to develop anything here, I can am seeing both sides of this story.
9. Paschendale - Votes have been bad, unsure what to make of his replace out, will wait for replacement for more information regarding this slot.
unvote buldermar- Looking back over what he has written, I think he might be town now, but then again I did skim his posts as went I try to reread them I just go "bleh", the red font isn't helping.
15. ActionDan - Mostly gut says this is plausible, nothing is really telling me logically either way.
16. SoraAdvent - another completely nothing file, hooray.
17. Maenara - the most nothingest possible..
21. BroodKingEXE - and another pretty much nothing I can't do anything with
24. Guy_Named_Riggs - compeltely nothing here, vote on DeasVail doesn't seem useful
27. numberQ - and finally we arrive to another slot without content, one I will expect will need replaced at some stage (along with probably the other completely nulls)
people missing from this list are my townreads, and I'm not going to give reasons for them, probably won't either. (I did decide to move some off the null list I gave before)
Ok, my main scumreads are Paschendale & Nachomamma, given that Paschendale has now gone to be a replacement, I will go the secondary option unless I see something better.
VOTE: Nachomamma8
@porfevor, yes I haven't been scumhunting that hard so far this game, and this probably still doesn't mean much, but there you go.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 969, Robocopter87 wrote:You just voted Nacho for bad vibes right after Nacho accused you of being scum
UNVOTE: DeasVail
VOTE: Cheery Dog
Seriously. This is the wagon.
I did have the same bad vibes when I read the post, and looking over his ISO, I couldn't find where I actually had good vibes coming from him.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 978, xtopherusD wrote:Ohhhh. Fox and the Hound?
Now, Cheery Dog is always going on about not prying into people's town reads or the reasons for them... However, he himself has effectively listed 17 people he finds to be more Town than Scum - in a way, his town reads. He has refrained from posting the reasons behind it, so there's a positive there...
Besides, it's completely non-committal. Cheery Dog's "reads" are essentially "Null: People who haven't posted;Not null: Everyone else". Cheery Dog?
I've just seen I'm still voting Vifam
UNVOTE: Vifam
But until Cheery Dog doesn't answer to this, my vote doesn't yet belong anywhere.
What does that last line mean?
It's impossible for me to not have anything but null when people aren't posting. There are pewople I listed that have been posting which are still in the null category.
and I am seriously having second thoughts about my townread on Titan, the way in which he just changed his read of me looks wrong.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 981, xtopherusD wrote:Also, you didn't respond to the first part of that post. Why are you posting against asking about townreads here before willingly (to the extent of "in your next post after being asked") posting your own??
I have nothing against people stating their townreads, and find that is in fact helpful, however giving the reasons for the townreads I believe is more useful for scum.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 983, Titan wrote:In post 979, Cheery Dog wrote:and I am seriously having second thoughts about my townread on Titan, the way in which he just changed his read of me looks wrong.
I saw/realized something that changed my mind about you.
Which was?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 989, xtopherusD wrote:I don't think I've heard that view before. I always have thought that posting who you think is "towniest" just gives scum an idea of how to cause the most damage with their night kill. Why does town want to know town's townreads??
Also... If knowing people's townreads is helpful to the town, why did you post a nulllist and not a townlist?
To catch scum that change their views of people wildly, the most damage factor is why I don't really like asking for reasons of a townread, but people having the town reads out in the restrict how well scum are capable of mislynching people.
I was asked for my opinion on acceptable vig shots, I started with the null list as I figured that was easier to work with (I didn't realise I had as many town reads as I actually did after I posted the list)Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Cheery Dog Kayak
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If I feel it is required for me to give reasons, then yes, otherwise no.
I was dayvigged recently in another game by someone I didn't believe, and since that happened I am currently believable of those who apparently claim vig.
I will lower my null list when it gets possible, currently there are too many inactives to get clear reads.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 994, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 974, Cheery Dog wrote:I did have the same bad vibes when I read the post, and looking over his ISO, I couldn't find where I actually had good vibes coming from him.
"hi nacho is scum for calling him town and then calling him scum"
"oh wait nacho is scum, i was wrong when I called him town"
GET OUT
YOU ARE SCUM
oh yeah and the fact that you find me scummy for doing what you did (except I actually gave reasons for one of my switches, I think)
I never called you town, I had thought there were some good vibes from somewhere else beforehand (but I think it might have been someone else's post) which is why you were in the null list and not out by yourself in a scum section.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 997, xtopherusD wrote: What kind of situation calls for you to feel "required" to give reasons? What drastic thing would have to happen for you to decide that you want to attest to your read??
Either them becoming a large lynch target, or me nearing lynch (or twilight after I'm lynched)
In post 998, xtopherusD wrote:
What do you think of Nacho?? Is he good or is he evil? Give me two words. The first will be "He's" and the second has to be four letters. There, you don't have to make a decision on how to say it, at least.
he's cake?
Spoiler: because I don't like listing to suggestions of how many words I should type (however actually answers your question)Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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I don't think it is a doubly aligned hydra, just I'm picking up scummy vibes from one head while towny vibes from the other.
I had given them the benefit of the doubt earlier, but them the random switch from defending me to saying I may be scum just put me over into seeing the whole hydra as possible scum.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Titan hasn't actually changed their vote, it's just a strange change to reads.
The half-scum was originally a joke, however it has become serious now.
The confirmation stage is still apart of this game, even it was all mostly joking.
That is not the only parts where Titan has posted that I have been slightly suspicious, these were not posted because the game had moved on by the time I read them and the "good" head had changed my opinion of that slot by the time I got to the lastest page at that stage they had become a town read. (around the area that I asked about the townread someone had of Noir)Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1016, buldermar wrote:I just realized that Nacho who was recently voted by Cheery Dog is also on the infamous null list. Hilarious.
Did you also notice that I said I didn't have any true scumreads at the time of posting the null list? Yeah that helps.
And I voted you at whatever that time was because
1. You had claimed (and unclaimed) scum, I have no idea why you were doing this.
2. The whole conversation at the stage was putting you in bad light.
3. You using red font is annoying.
3a. This is because I am used to all players using black.
3b. When used in large quantities it makes reading more annoying.
3c. It looks awful when quoted and annoys my eyes even more when I switch from reading black>red>black>redHolder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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It became serious because I actually started considering Titan possible scum. If I am considering someone possible scum, all my interactions with them become more serious even if they weren't at the time.
In post 1014, xtopherusD wrote:
And how do you know that Titan's Rational HeadTM won't come along and change your mind again??
I don't, that's the fun trying to figure out the alignment of a hydra. (and if the rational head does change my mind again, the question will have become a joke again (you can still consider it a joke now if you like, but in my mind it's currently a serious question)
In post 1014, xtopherusD wrote:
So do you think that Titan is scum? This is a yes/no question.
If yes, why is the two-headed dilemma so vital two being up? If not, why did you say that you would be "happy for them to be lynched as well"?
Yes.
and I don't understand what else you are asking here, so also yes to that.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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I brought the dilemma up to show how I was deriving my reads.
That one spot which made me start heading in the opposite direction isn't something that can move a town read into a scum read, it by itself is not actually that much out a scum tellHolder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1086, BT wrote:Cheery Dog #968 looks lazy (especially the reason for suspecting Nacho) and is bad to begin with because he's doing some weird PoE thing that is usually done by scum. Handwaving no less than half the damn playerlist as town doesn't help his case since it's another scum thing.
Why is being lazy a scum tell?
What makes someone be able to go from completely different levels of fuckdom because of one post?
What is actually wrong with discoounting half the playerlist as possible day one lynches when it's obvious they're not going to be the day 1 lynch? I am not going to whittle my way through 29 other players when most of them have done nothing at all suspicious. If they do happen to do something suspicious (like Titan did) then they can be brought out into the open and investigated further, otherwise they are best left to do their own thing with the people who happen to be the possible day 1 lynches. When we get down to less players (and if I'm somehow still alive) then I will have a complete opinion on everyone, at this stage I find putting aside the better half of the playerlist is a good idea.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1089, BT wrote:
In post 1088, Cheery Dog wrote:What makes someone be able to go from completely different levels of fuckdom because of one post?
Uh?
That's another way of wording what I have as my nacho case, I'm trying to see how weak you actually have that case pegged as.
In post 1088, Cheery Dog wrote:What is actually wrong with discoounting half the playerlist as possible day one lynches when it's obvious they're not going to be the day 1 lynch? I am not going to whittle my way through 29 other players when most of them have done nothing at all suspicious. If they do happen to do something suspicious (like Titan did) then they can be brought out into the open and investigated further, otherwise they are best left to do their own thing with the people who happen to be the possible day 1 lynches. When we get down to less players (and if I'm somehow still alive) then I will have a complete opinion on everyone, at this stage I find putting aside the better half of the playerlist is a good idea.
I thought they were your townreads? Are they 'not possible d1 lynches' now?[/quote]
I'm just using different words for the same thing - if I develop a townread of you during day 1, you're generally not going to be someone I push for a lynch during said day 1. I figured wording it that way may have made it easier to understand, I guess not. It's very probable that I've placed some scum into this category by mistake as my analysing skills aren't up to naming a complete scumteam based on a few posts.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1110, BT wrote:
PEdit: Fair enough, he could do better obviously, but it wouldn't be the first time some dumb gimmick poster was town (in fact in my history the vast majority of gimmick posters were town but whatever) and his content isn't actually scummy as far as I can tell
Being a gimmick is not a towntell, the vast majority of everyone is town in the history of games.
In post 1168, Maenara wrote:
I'd say something about it being hilariously easy for scum to lurk, as per usual in large themes, but that might not go well with me having two posts on fortyseven pages. Oh, woops, dearie me, I guess I said it anyway. So, yeah, let's have all us inactives vote for the prominent stupid people, as opposed to the silent stupid people.
You replaced someone who never picked up their role pm, this self-consious of you being a lurker because you've only posted twice is just weird, and saying it in these way is just plain weird, although it doesn't actually really help me get a grasp of your alignment.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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I pressed the Q+ button before reading your post, I did read your post before I posted, but I felt the reason why I pressed the Q+ button was enough to have it questioned twice.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1290, Nachomamma8 wrote:
Cheery Dog - "I don't see problems in this thread except what people have already questioned" This implies that he has scumreads, or people that are asking the questions he wants them to and thus should have people to sheep. But instead it's just an excuse for not posting anything. Burn it with fire.
Responses were generally good to those questions, therefore those people questioned became mostly town.
Didn't you just say I should be have been sheeping people after that last quote? Yes you have a problem with me actually doing sheeping here..
In post 1290, Nachomamma8 wrote:
this is so town that I had to let out a hearty chuckle
oh deasvail
they should make a sitcom for you
and your towniness
So because you've played with Deas before with him doing this sort of thing as town, me doing the same post on a wagon you haven't declared full out war on (see above & below quotes you have of my posts) quote) makes me scum?
In post 1290, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 644, Cheery Dog wrote:
I don't think I need to iso him for that to happen.
UNVOTE: ]
VOTE: paschendale
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
...a lot.
In post 1289, Tazaro wrote:Going to recede for a while ...
you do that, it won't help ease any suspicions I have of you though.
Which are actually about level with those I have on Nacho, since you have the bigger wagon and one that may actually go somewhere today.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Tazaro
In post 1308, Maenara wrote:UNVOTE: DeasVail
Was mostly bullshit reasoning anyhow. I just needed a convenient scapegoat on whom to focus my attention while I tried to get in after skipping most of what was before I replaced in.
Why did you feel the need to vote someone after replacing in, and why do you need someone to have focused on?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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I think I see both reasoning with both the Maenara and the malpascp wagons. I don't actually have anything new for Nacho-scum (still only the scummy as fuck then town as fuck, now with added bonus of pasch flipping scum)
Not really seeing the reason behind the xtopherusD wagon, unsure about the AurorusVox wagon and am totally unfazed by any of the ones that currently have 1 vote (besides the one I'm sitting on)Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1578, Nachomamma8 wrote:In post 1577, Cheery Dog wrote:I don't actually have anything new for Nacho-scum (still only the scummy as fuck then town as fuck, now with added bonus of pasch flipping scum)
cheery all you are doing is keeping me alive
and that is bad for your team
So you are scum and my reads are right?
Otherwise you being alive would be a good thing.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1598, Nachomamma8 wrote:also changing my avatar for a little while to force people to read my posts.
impersonating the mod, kill it!Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1686, BroodKingEXE wrote:Looking at the two top lynch candidates I think malscalp is more scummy. The scummiest thing I see about Avox is his very weak Tazaro push(that is non-existent Tazaro push). malpsacp is far more scummy as he has soft defended confirmed scum multiple times and never voted for buldemar who he was flipping out about for confirming scum(still have no idea wtf that is about).
VOTE: Maenara
Aren't I currently the second biggest lynch candidate in terms of votes on me?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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Is that how it works, I just some here and do this
Spoiler:
and it's therefore correct?
(spoilered because I think it is a stupid thing to do)Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1726, Nachomamma8 wrote:Three.
if we base this off the people whose posts you just quoted, why aren't you voting any of them?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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And you voting town benefits town how?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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In post 1751, DeasVail wrote:I'm going to do some stuff now!
sounds like a good idea. I may have to join you in doing stuff.
Dammit nacho, you were meant to answer my question as it was there to be town hunting you, now I'm left we the continuing belief that you're scum.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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I would say it because it's obviously a joke.
UNVOTE: nacho
VOTE: malpascpHolder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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And none of the other sudden votes do?
In post 1989, malpascp wrote:
btw, V/LA means Vacance OR Low Activity. I would daykill everyone to voted m based on V/LA shit.
I think you'll find you mean Vacation or Limited Access.
I don't think anyone has voted you because of V/LA shit, we may have voted you and accused you of lurking during it, but I don't recall any votes especially because of the lurk.
(btw I recommend putting up the V/LA tags, much easier to notice than having to find the last vote count with mod information about V/LAs)Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
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