Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)

[buldermar]

UNVOTE:

[buldermar]

^^ Where can I read about all of this?

[buldermar]

Well, there's the wiki. If you want information on individual characters that might help.

The articles on the Wayward Vagabond, the Queen's Ring (what Brood claims to have), and Carapacians might be the most relevant right now. There's a lot of information though, and with regards to this game a lot of it is completely irrelevant. It might be better to just ask a player here who has read Homestuck, such as myself.

Thank you for taking your time linking me to these pages. I'm all ears if you are up for explaining the relevant parts to me.

[buldermar]

Otherwise, I'm inclined to (and would advice others to) disregard every read you make, unless it has been explicitly agreed upon by both heads.

Orly?

me and tammy are supposed to force each other to think alike or something?

or better yet

here's an idea

we're two different people, on the same account

if we don't agree on a read, then it's really stupid to not say them anyways

the purpose of a hydra is to discuss reads sure cuz we both know we're town so we'll help each other on reads and maybe someone sees something the other doesn't etc

but LOL if we're supposed to agree on everything.

Just explicitly state who is talking like you did in this post, you dumb fuck. Is that too difficult for the two of you?

[buldermar]

You should clarify with the mod.

I think Vifam is town.

UNVOTE:

Vifam on AV? AV on Mehdi?

Vifam on AV, AV on Vifam

One of Vifam and AV should be locked on Mehdi.

[buldermar]

Nacho had it right day one. There's no way no how I'd let Arthur have the reigns and be the dominate player in a scum hydra and let myself get so far behind that I barely posted and basically sheeped him, not when I'm the one who comes off more town usually anyway.

You can't sheep your own slot when you only got one vote, so fuck off with this bullshit explanation.

That's unnecessarily hostile especially when you're not seeming to understand what I was saying and what s&r are accusing me of and what nacho brought up in the first place. He said In an earlier post tht he didn't think I would let Arthur be regarded a the dominant head in a sum hydra, which was quite an astute observation. Sure, we only have one vote, and I never said otherwise; however I have been explicitly Sheeping his reads nd actions as I got behind and just followed him without giving input. This is very unlikely to happen in a scum hydra of ours. I wouldn't be doing damage control after the fact as s&r are saying, it would be something I'd have done pregame and would be continuing on throughout the game nonstop.

As far as your later request. Arthur's not a dumbfuck and theres really no reason to call people names. We probably won't sign our posts because of forgetfulness. Well I've never been able to remember to sign a post, but we're quite easy to tell apart.

So there is Arthur and there is Tammy, good to know. Use these names from now on for any posts that you've not agreed upon making upfront, please.

What I say in the post you quoted is colored by the fact that I was at the time quite annoyed with your slots unwillingness to cooperate and, for instance, not use this thread as a mean of communication between the two of you. You do realize that all of my frustration stems from the fact that you don't simply put 6 or 5 letters (depending on the name) in the beginning of each of your posts? I think it's justified considering how easy a task this would be and how anti-town it is not to do it (and this is not a matter of opinion; it is anti-town because only scum benefits from being able to backpedal, which is possible by virtue of not having explicitly stated to whom an opinion belong). And on this very token: unless it is made explicitly aware to whom each opinion belong, you can by definition not sheep his reads (i.e. opinions) explicitly, as it remains unknown if the opinion you're sheeping belongs to him or you in the first place. Also, the "this is very unlikely to happen in a scum hydra of ours" comment is downright preposterous, as you could have easily agreed upon doing specifically this in private communication beforehand. I'll retract my comment that Arthur is a dumbfuck and replace it with one that his action is fucking dumb. The excuse that you probably won't sign your posts because of forgetfulness is silly; I can list the posts that I wish to be signed and you can merely respond with an abbrevation (e.g. A and T). You're just being intentionally ignorant and onerous for the fun of it, and that pisses me off.

[buldermar]

And I don't find you quite easy to tell apart. In fact, I only recently realized that you are a hydra of two people.

[buldermar]

"youre just being intentionally ignorant and onerous for the fun of it..."

Well now I am, have fun continuing being pissed off. Any impetus I has to try to be work with you just went out the window.

You're welcome!

Also, your whole post is silly and contrived.

Thank you for proving my point, Artmmy.

[buldermar]

And I don't find you quite easy to tell apart. In fact, I only recently realized that you are a hydra of two people.

So, you didn't read the first page? You haven't read most posts in the game in which you see people addressing us by different names? Also, I really only started posting in this game recently. See me talking about getting behind and barely posting...that would be because one head has been doing most of the work this game and I'm only now catching up.

I don't pay attention to names when there is nicknames unless I know there is a reason to. If I had known that you are a hydra, I obviously would have noticed all the things indicative hereof. When there isn't a reason to see something, you rarely see it, Artmmy.

[buldermar]

vifam i don't even see how you can double or triple post the board doesn't let you hold up i'm trying it now

It's quite easy...

[buldermar]

vifam i don't even see how you can double or triple post the board doesn't let you hold up i'm trying it now

It's quite easy...

[buldermar]

vifam i don't even see how you can double or triple post the board doesn't let you hold up i'm trying it now

It's quite easy...

[buldermar]

VOTE: Brood

[buldermar]

We need 12 to lynch, right?

Correct.

[buldermar]

Lets not forget Fate didn't have anything extensive on me other than "Hey trust me guys" and most of his attacks against me were attempting to grab rabbits out of the fukin' sky

If this is his playstyle it does not invalidate his read on you.

[buldermar]

Are you a killer? Yes or No

So forced. "hey look at me im doing scum hunting" no, you're not.

[buldermar]

And can you answer what you planned to get out of asking me am I a SK?

This question probably will not be answered by Vifam.

[buldermar]

Yup, it was ignored.

[buldermar]

The two people who flipped town were both vig shot.

P-edit: What is PM in this context (instead of reading the wiki what's the relevant game portion?)

Supposedly green cop who if he targets someone from pro something they get a vig shot and if killed or role blocked the killer/RB gets a vig shot by taking the ring.

UNVOTE:

While it's obviously convenient to fabricate a roll that cannot be counter-claimed, I just don't see this made up. Does anyone have an example of a game in which a scum made up as unique a role as a fake claim?

[buldermar]

VOTE: Vifam

[buldermar]

VOTE: Vifam

Look I want Vifam's sweet scumflip as much as the next guy but THINK

Vifam fakeclaimed doc this is USEFUL TO US

his faction cannot NK AV without outing him 110%

GREEN faction cannot NK AV because they might think Vifams a real doc (lol), but if they do then STILL guaranteedscum Vifam lynch, OR they shoot Vifam for us.

WIN WIN

MEANWHILE

WE LYNCH OUT OF THE LAST FUCKING GREENSCUM

WHOS ALL BUT PRAYING YOU CLOWNS FORGET HE EXISTS

Alright, these are valid points that I didn't think about. Thanks. VOTE: Broodscum

[buldermar]

Seriously Shinori? I don't mean to be rude but maybe you should replace out if all you do is make empty promises.

This

is

being rude. The non-rude version would be: "if you have some important things in your life to settle".

[buldermar]

I'll have to p-dodge. Sorry.

[buldermar]

Looks like we'll be able to get that longest game title after all.

I don't know, Fate is gone.

[buldermar]

null: av, vifam, nacho, ald, dgb, buld, deas (i actually forget he's in the game till he posts)

Did both heads or just one head downgrade me from a town read to null? I'd like to know who is stating this if it's not too much trouble.

[buldermar]

My shot doesn't really matter unless someone wants to know who it was. VOTE: Sanjay assuming titan has a guilty. Otherwise I want philla lynched since I find him worse then sanjay.

And sanjay it's pretty obvious kills got blocked somehow and until said otherwise I'll assume brood's claim was true to have gotten the kills stopped and he's town.

You should keep who your target was to yourself because scum would benefit more from knowing it than town.

VOTE: Sanjay

I'm sheeping along.

[buldermar]

vote: sanjay

lololol

I'm asserting that this means you have a guilty. If you don't, now is the time to tell.

[buldermar]

My shot doesn't really matter unless someone wants to know who it was. VOTE: Sanjay assuming titan has a guilty. Otherwise I want philla lynched since I find him worse then sanjay.

And sanjay it's pretty obvious kills got blocked somehow and until said otherwise I'll assume brood's claim was true to have gotten the kills stopped and he's town.

You should keep who your target was to yourself because scum would benefit more from knowing it than town.

VOTE: Sanjay

I'm sheeping along.

I don't know when, but you will die, and I am looking forward to it.

um yes clarification from Titan is in order. And I'd like for the answer to be contructed in a way such as to avoid claiming a fake-guilty. I.e, don't be a hero... Unless you really got a guilty in which case, sure, be a hero.

You have something against me sheeping a confirmed town?

[buldermar]

oh I see, voting with the guilty in mind nvm, I reserve my spite.

Good for you.

[buldermar]

10 bucks says Nacho and Fate were on the same team

I would take that bet any day if it was possible.

[buldermar]

And I'd like for the answer to be contructed in a way such as to avoid claiming a fake-guilty.

we have 2 and 2 down i think me attempting to be a hero won't hurt anyone.

I'm assuming this means you don't have a guilty.

UNVOTE: for now.

[buldermar]

What the hell man

hush.

SANJAY WAGON AHOY

Spoiler:

let's be honest, does it REALLY matter if i have a guilty or not? ._.

You insinuated that you did. Why?

[buldermar]

10 bucks says Nacho and Fate were on the same team

I would take that bet any day if it was possible.

Were you scum with Fate too, by any chance?

No, I just have a brain.

[buldermar]

Wait, so there isn't a guilty?

You got it, sir.

[buldermar]

S&R and BT should be able to tell you that based off of meta + Paschle/Fate's flip

besides being town pretty obv-town regardless all game

No you have not.

[buldermar]

10 bucks says Nacho and Fate were on the same team

I would take that bet any day if it was possible.

Were you scum with Fate too, by any chance?

No, I just have a brain.

I don't know man, you act like you know what you're doing but I'm not seeing any amazing scumcatching results from you.

I don't know what I'm doing, but I do know that chances are a lot greater of Nacho and Fate not being on the same team than that they are, statistically speaking. I think I'd even do a 10 bucks bet with you and give you odds 2 to 1.

[buldermar]

I think I've made my point

No, please spam away, I'm not sure I got it.

[buldermar]

I'm fine w the claim list.

[buldermar]

It's alright man, I'm not the greatest guy ever, but dumb it down on the sarcasm.

I liked it.

[buldermar]

I don't think Buldar likes me

I have nothing bad to say about you except that you don't understand simple probability distributions.

[buldermar]

Town is stacked hard in this game

I guess we'll know soon enough.

[buldermar]

null: av, vifam, nacho, ald, dgb, buld, deas (i actually forget he's in the game till he posts)

Did both heads or just one head downgrade me from a town read to null? I'd like to know who is stating this if it's not too much trouble.

Why does it matter? This was Arthur's post by the way. But I didn't have you in my town list of reads I gave yesterday either. Not sure if Arthur ever had you as town. When we discussed things after the lynch, both us us wanted to get a better read on you, but why are you concerned that we have you as null right now? Neither of us are going to push your lynch, so why does it concern you to be null?

It doesn't concern me to be null, I was under the impression that your (plural) read on me changed and was wondering why. Thanks for clarifying.

[buldermar]

Right. My turn. I'm Vriska Serket, and I'm a Bulletproof Townie.

From the kind of roles we've seen this far, it seems unlikely that there would be a bulletproof townie. Just saying.

[buldermar]

That might explain why I couldn't kill him. And since the zdenek role blocking/protecting everyone theory is not true I can at least confirm the claim.

This is backwards and only confirms that he has the ability of not being killed. In fact, he may have been forced into specifically claiming what he did because it's intuitively the logical thing to do as scum. I'm not saying that he's scum, but the role seems a bit like one I wouldn't put into this game if I were a mod. I think this game will consist of complicated roles and a bunch of VT's. This is purely speculation on my part.

[buldermar]

That might explain why I couldn't kill him. And since the zdenek role blocking/protecting everyone theory is not true I can at least confirm the claim.

I don't think it really matters though, because bulletproof mafia makes ok sense with all the kills, and he'd probably only claim this if he was BP town/mafia.

Shit you beat me to it.

[buldermar]

I don't find it as unbelievable when a. we have an untargetable townie and b. 4 kills can happen per night at the beginning of the game if they aren't stopped.

Let's see what the other claims look like I guess.

[buldermar]

*3D glasses*

[buldermar]

Yes yes, but take on your glasses so you can see it in 3D.

[buldermar]

AD got the popcorns, we're still waiting for soda.

[buldermar]

Will the real Slim Shady please stand up, please stand up, please stand up?

[buldermar]

And here I got my 3D glasses for nothing. Aren't there at least trailers to watch?

[buldermar]

Why does the massclaim have to be put on hold though?

DRAMAQUEEN

[buldermar]

K goodnight y'all.

[buldermar]

K goodnight y'all.

can you please move here whenever you feel like saying dumb unnecessary shit?

Good one, but I do not have a twitter account.

[buldermar]

So all you do is give out hats? That's pretty lame

Yea, I'd rather hand out reprimands.

[buldermar]

pretty sure Quilford is Town

although I already had a town read on his slot so no big surprise there

Thank you for stating the obvious.

[buldermar]

Oh yeah. I just give out hats. That's it.

Can I have one? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

[buldermar]

quil: can you give me a hat tonight? i sorta doubt your role does anything but if it had an effect on non-mc characters i could see me being one of them (my character is associated with hats)

Noooo I want one

Let's make an agreement. The one of us with the least powers gets the hat, aight?

[buldermar]

My shot doesn't really matter unless someone wants to know who it was. VOTE: Sanjay assuming titan has a guilty. Otherwise I want philla lynched since I find him worse then sanjay.

And sanjay it's pretty obvious kills got blocked somehow and until said otherwise I'll assume brood's claim was true to have gotten the kills stopped and he's town.

You should keep who your target was to yourself because scum would benefit more from knowing it than town.

VOTE: Sanjay

I'm sheeping along.

I don't know when, but you will die, and I am looking forward to it.

um yes clarification from Titan is in order. And I'd like for the answer to be contructed in a way such as to avoid claiming a fake-guilty. I.e, don't be a hero... Unless you really got a guilty in which case, sure, be a hero.

You have something against me sheeping a confirmed town?

when did i become confirmed town? o.O

(or if this was about mehdi, when did he become confirmed town?)

((or if this was about someone else when did they become confirmed town?))

You're not confirmed. I don't recall exactly at what post mehdi became a confirmed town, but I don't think he'd claim vig as SK (or scum for that matter), and he's been extremely pro-town throughout the game. In short, I see no way he's scum or SK, therefore confirmed town.

[buldermar]

His claim is REALLY ballsy if he's scum, though, I think it's safe to say that he's confirmed but whatever

Basically, this. Vifam, can we be friends and hang out?

[buldermar]

mehdi is actually really capable of it but w/e i was interested on why he chose that wording to seem like there is no way what he was doing was bad because he was "sheeping confirmed town".

Did you find your answer?

[buldermar]

I'm starting to think the scum are probably going to hide inside the VT claims and all the PR's are likely town, but I guess we should just wait it out at this point.

I still don't see why the bulletproof townie wouldn't be fake.

[buldermar]

You want a list of people who aren't scumhunting right now? Alright:
Titan, Sanjay (yes he's voting Nacho but what he is not pushing anything new or even pushing his current case very strongly), DeasVail, buldermar, Phillamon, DeltaWave, ActionDan*, BroodKing, Quil, Zdenek (I will grant that he's V/LA), Bumi, Mehdi, Vifam

I don't think it's fair to claim that I'm not scumhunting right now, I was the one to instigate the fact that the bulletproof townie claim wasn't really in accordance with other claims thus far.

[buldermar]

Fair enough. The flavour name of the other BP should be Aradia Megido.

And buld, that isn't scumhunting. That's setup spec.

Setup spec. is a valid tool in scumhunting.

Anyway, I find your recent explanations plausible.

[buldermar]

People that need to claim now:

DeltaWave
Alduskkel
buldermar

Or I guess buld can go after them if he deems it necessary, IDK.

I'd like to go after at least Ald if that's okay...

[buldermar]

Deasvail:

I like the transparency in #372. It might be something that DeasVail as scum thought would be taken as a townie thing by the majority, but the timing is off for that sort of thing. I liked how he treated the buldermar situation; measuring up the scumclaim to others he's seen and backing off in the slow, paranoid way seemed distinctly townish to me. I liked the unexplained Cheery Dog town read since this is multiball and it would make him look like shit if he flipped scum, I liked how he treated buldermar and I arguing over calling him town (ignoring the message and scumhunting the people behind the message). #1370 was pretty baller, I liked that too. It wasn't really how people go about bussing their buddies. #2138 was actually considering malp's jailer claim and determining whether it was town or not and reached a conclusion in a way that wouldn't really get him any friends (i.e. calling his claiming process too incompetant to be a fakeclaim). Strong townread.

We all know that Deas is town (at least I hope so), and you've already pointed this out before, so why are you focusing on him?

[buldermar]

I don't get the first one

Beg Pardon, BP, Bullet Proof. Leh Brainnnn

[buldermar]

1st quote is obvious too. >_>/

beg pardon = bp. standard stuff.

Voiiiila

[buldermar]

If Mehdi is scum then why did he claim that Maenara was Damara, which is easily falsifiable?

Why the fuck have people overlooked this?

[buldermar]

Deasvail:

I like the transparency in #372. It might be something that DeasVail as scum thought would be taken as a townie thing by the majority, but the timing is off for that sort of thing. I liked how he treated the buldermar situation; measuring up the scumclaim to others he's seen and backing off in the slow, paranoid way seemed distinctly townish to me. I liked the unexplained Cheery Dog town read since this is multiball and it would make him look like shit if he flipped scum, I liked how he treated buldermar and I arguing over calling him town (ignoring the message and scumhunting the people behind the message). #1370 was pretty baller, I liked that too. It wasn't really how people go about bussing their buddies. #2138 was actually considering malp's jailer claim and determining whether it was town or not and reached a conclusion in a way that wouldn't really get him any friends (i.e. calling his claiming process too incompetant to be a fakeclaim). Strong townread.

We all know that Deas is town (at least I hope so), and you've already pointed this out before, so why are you focusing on him?

please claim TY

I'm God, creater of the Universe.

[buldermar]

bul, claim

Relax, I was catching up (and still am).

[buldermar]

I'm VT, checking my role PM for flavor now hold on.

[buldermar]

If Mehdi is scum then why did he claim that Maenara was Damara, which is easily falsifiable?

Why the fuck have people overlooked this?

because there's no reason for him to do that as town either

And this just means he didn't do it, i.e., Maenara is making something up for some reason. I don't know, it doesn't add up, anyway flavor time.

[buldermar]

Tavros, VT

[buldermar]

Mehdi, from your perspective, why is Maenara making up stuff to get you lynched when you've confirmed her as a town?

[buldermar]

The one problem with lynching Mehdi is that if he's actually speaking the truth, it's like the worst lynch OF ALL POSSIBLE LYNCHES.

[buldermar]

Even if Mehdi is THE MOST LIKELY SCUM he may still not be the optimal lynch because of how detrimental it is when he is speaking the truth. Is there no way he can be speaking the truth?

[buldermar]

Mehdi, from your perspective, why is Maenara making up stuff to get you lynched when you've confirmed her as a town?

I don't know. It's the same as how her speculation on me buddying her since she thought I was scum makes no sense when the buddying came before.

No, it's not the same, because you claimed that she had a specific flavor that she is now claiming she doesn't. There is no scum motivation in doing so since she'll get lynched should you flip town. Unless she feels like trading herself for you is a decent trade. Maybe it would be. I guess that's worth considering. Am I missing something?

[buldermar]

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF SHINORI CLAIMED A ROLE NAME OR NOT SIMPLY A VT?

I only recall him claiming VT, but not sure. I'll have a quick look now.

[buldermar]

Well for what it matters. I'm a vanilla townie. Dunno if he claimed that or not. WOULD PREFER NOT TO BE LYNCHED FOR JUST JOINING THE GAME QQ.

No flavor.

[buldermar]

Maenara could see Mehdi as a threat to her team's survival. Removing an unkillable player and an unlynchable player at the time as well as a vigilante is worth her life me thinks.

This makes for a scum motivation, in which case we should probably consider not killing either of them today.

[buldermar]

Even if Mehdi is THE MOST LIKELY SCUM he may still not be the optimal lynch because of how detrimental it is when he is speaking the truth. Is there no way he can be speaking the truth?

Talk to mae about that. I'm not going to believe the mod would lie to me in my role pm with the game not being advertised as bastard. She's not scum without the mod lying to me completely.

And Dan I've already basically let you guys choose my kill when it comes to helping decide kill pools.

Bastard = mod can lie in role PM's?

Well let's go with the hypothesis that she's not scum and that this game is not bastard. She would then have to be a town trying to get you lynched for no reason OR you would have to be a scum who is currently lying. These are the only two options. Right?

[buldermar]

The only logical explanation I can come up with is that they are both town and Maenara for some reason consider Mehdi a scum and therefore is lying about her role PM to get Mehdi lynched. And even that is pretty fucking thin.

[buldermar]

I am beginning to wonder if Maenara is a massive troll with this.

Plus it is possible with so many people that the scumteams are large. 5 or 6 players each maybe? And Maenara can afford to take a hit in order to make her other teammates' lives better.

I doubt scum teams would be more than 4 people each with this many VT's.

[buldermar]

dfghdfghdfghdf

[buldermar]

THIS GAME IS KILLING ME

[buldermar]

I'm thinking right now it's best to lynch from the pool of people we were talking about earlier and let these powerroles shuffle a few more nights.

P-Edit I'm calling credit if this is really vt lyncher

This is true if there is a possibility of both of Mehdi and Maenara being town. And this is a possibility only if Maenara is being a complete idiot as town.

[buldermar]

What does a miller do?

[buldermar]

hey can we stop speculating and just lynch mehdi? i 100% guarantee that will explain everything, and the odds of town!mehdi are impossibly low given the situation

You do realize that if Mehdi IS town it would be the worst possible lynch, right?

[buldermar]

@MOD

Can you confirm if a lyncher would be a town or 3rd party role?

[buldermar]

uuugh

VOTE: DGB

Mehdi shoots Mae tonight as a utility kill. If Mehdi is legit, then Mae should have no reason to turn on Mehdi unless there's more to her role / alignment than just "being town", meaning it's not as bad of a shot as it sounds since Mehdi would be proving himself right via Mae's flip and Mae would probably not be as town as Mehdi's PM says. If he agrees to this plan but Mae survives he's obvscum stalling.

If he's not legit, why would his scum group not simply night kill Maenara knowing that we all agreed not to protect her?

[buldermar]

if mehdi is legit, then maenara most likely has more to her alignment than just "town" given that she's trying to push the lynch onto mehdi

No, for that to be true the game would have to be bastard, or whatever you folks call it.

[buldermar]

Mehdi shoots Mae tonight as a utility kill. If Mehdi is legit, then Mae should have no reason to turn on Mehdi unless there's more to her role / alignment than just "being town", meaning it's not as bad of a shot as it sounds since Mehdi would be proving himself right via Mae's flip and Mae would probably not be as town as Mehdi's PM says. If he agrees to this plan but Mae survives he's obvscum stalling.

this makes no sense from mehdi's POV at all? say mae flips town, what then?

QFT. THIS.

[buldermar]

STOP POSTING I CAN BARELY LOAD THE PAGE MUCH LESS GET A WORD IN

START POSTING THEN YOU SHOULD EXPLAIN HOW THIS MAKES ANY SENSE

[buldermar]

uuugh

VOTE: DGB

Mehdi shoots Mae tonight as a utility kill. If Mehdi is legit, then Mae should have no reason to turn on Mehdi unless there's more to her role / alignment than just "being town", meaning it's not as bad of a shot as it sounds since Mehdi would be proving himself right via Mae's flip and Mae would probably not be as town as Mehdi's PM says. If he agrees to this plan but Mae survives he's obvscum stalling.

If he's not legit, why would his scum group not simply night kill Maenara knowing that we all agreed not to protect her?

Vifam on Mehdi?

Does Vifam on Mehdi give us info about whether Mehdi is killing Maenara as scum or as vig?

[buldermar]

sigh this is just really fukn dumb

VOTE: Mehdi

BP Vigilante LAL policy lynch. "wah wah but mehdi is the worst lynch if he's town" he's obviously not?? trying to leash his kill is also stupid. i was curious what he'd say about my proposal but w/e

Tell me why he would claim to know the flavor of Maenara as scum or SK when this is so easily falsifiable? TELL ME THIS ONE THING AND I'M COMPLETELY FINE WITH LYNCHING HIM.

[buldermar]

There is no chance of Mehdi being town. I may be an idiot, but I'm not enough of an idiot to fake-claim a role name during mass claim as a town when another player had a confirmed inno on me and knew my role name.

okay,

deep breath.

why in fucking fucktard of hell of fucking hell would Mehdi claim that you are someone you are not?

out of no where?

esp when YOU WERE JUST ABOUT TO CLAIM VERY VERY SOONISH ANYWAY.

?????

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

[buldermar]

STOP POSTING I CAN BARELY LOAD THE PAGE MUCH LESS GET A WORD IN

START POSTING THEN YOU SHOULD EXPLAIN HOW THIS MAKES ANY SENSE

Yes, because being physically unable to get it to accept my post makes it easy for me to start posting.

What I do is copy the entire post reply so that when it fails, I can quickly paste it and click submit until it accepts.

[buldermar]

Since there is a chance of both of them being town I think it may simply be better not to lynch either of them as of yet. At least we have to seriously entertain this idea.

[buldermar]

I 100% guarantee that I would never as town fakeclaim my flavour name in order to get someone guaranteeing my innocence lynched because of me suspecting them without a mod-confirmed reason for doing so. If ever caught doing so, I will be willing to vote myself out of shame.

Are you satisfied, Buldermar? There is no longer a reasonable chance of both of us being town.

It doesn't work like this, unfortunately.

[buldermar]

I repeat, there is no reasonable chance of both me and Mehdi being town, and there is no chance of his PM lying, on account of this not being a bastard game, and hence, there is no chance of him being town at all.

I still don't understand why he would out himself by claiming to know your role name.

[buldermar]

reminder that this is where your vote should be if you have any idea how to actually play mafia

Fuck off with your condescending remarks until you actually succeed at explaining why Mehdi would out himself by claiming to know the role name of Maenara.

[buldermar]

Mehdi, if you flip anything other than town I'll be interested in knowing why you outed yourself, because I seriously do not comprehend it.

[buldermar]

I have to be scum because it's improbable I'm town with the way claims have gone, but that doesn't apply the other way?

In a sense it doesn't because your abilities are somewhat unlikely in comparison.

[buldermar]

this is a huge fucking waste of time and i should probably just go chill instead of arguing with scums since i'm gettin' mad at mafia games, but

mehdi is

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PR

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F

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GI

LA

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A

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WI

TH

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TH

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B

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CL

AI

M

AN

D

FL

IP

PE

D

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G

AN

D

HE

H

AS

B

EE

N

CA

UG

HT

I

N

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NG

S

HI

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ON

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U

ND

ER

ST

AN

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HO

W

TH

IS

I

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LI

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R

reminder that this is where your vote should be if you have any idea how to actually play mafia

the specifics of mehdi's role and maenara's role Don't Matter. what matters is that mehdi has an improbable fakeclaim and is caught in a lie and his only responses to votes on him are wifom because his only hope of surviving is smokescreening and hoping the town is retarded

SHUT UP AND LISTEN. I KNEW FROM MY PM THAT THERE IS ANOTHER BULLETPROOF WHO WOULD BE CALLED ARADIA. THAT'S MEHDI. THERE IS NO CAUGHT IN A LIE HERE.

In that case they're both town, exactly as I suggested could be possible.

[buldermar]

If we are lynching both, we need to lynch Maenara first.

[buldermar]

There is the possibility that the mod did a mistake, no?

[buldermar]

Well we're essentially weighting Mehdi outing himself for no reason against Maenara trying to get Mehdi lynched as town. Which of these is more likely? How likely are these compared to the mod sending the wrong role name to Mehdi? And this being a bastard game?

[buldermar]

but what if? WHAT IF?

I may be the only one here appreciating your sarcasm.

[buldermar]

That can be proven false by a night with 3 kills so wait one night and that is now false.

This is only true assuming that you don't have an additional kill as scum.

[buldermar]

Hey look me too bed time buddies!

(Is there such a thing?)

Don't complain about me making "I'm going to bed" posts when you're doing it yourself. Kthx.

[buldermar]

Cult theory is I'm town and mae was town that became cult if I understood it right.

This is correct, but I don't think there can be any cult in this game.

[buldermar]

I got my role pm response just now. The pm was mostly right just it wasn't supposed to give any role name for mae (makes even less sense flavor wise then before but meh).

P-edit: How do you confirm a BP beyond watching scum to me when the other vig is dead? Av showing up would help with this role mess.

Wait, what? So they made a mistake in naming the role name of Maenara as in it was named incorrectly in your role PM?

[buldermar]

Arthur how many times do I have to say this. Wait one night. Count the number of night kills. If you count 3 then you know that me being a vig is true.

There may be only two night kills even if you are a vig and succesfully kill. All it takes is an overlap.

[buldermar]

I got my role pm response just now. The pm was mostly right just it wasn't supposed to give any role name for mae (makes even less sense flavor wise then before but meh)..

Okay so eithwr gorrad / quadz make a public announcment saying they fucked up or you're eating rope.

Good idea. This works methink.

[buldermar]

P-edit: I was told that shouldn't have been there and nothing else. Mae being confirmed town to me wasn't said to be wrong so that's still true.

You're dead if they don't publicly verify that there has been at least one error in role PM.

[buldermar]

Is there an easy way to make rhat rainbow coloring or do you actually have to color each letter?

Please no. Having one person doing that retarded shit is more than enough.

[buldermar]

Is there an easy way to make rhat rainbow coloring or do you actually have to color each letter?

http://www.umop.net/sfx.htm

pick bbcode as output format

Ohgodwhy

[buldermar]

That's been dealt with before. Even assuming all prs besides me are town good luck balancing a scum vig (and only limited scum vig is anywhere worth arguing so 3 nights with kills assuming no one scum team is wiped out and if you can still say that well explain balance to me).

I don't know balance of games with more than one scum team.

[buldermar]

Assuming all town pr claims are true (and out of the likely 4 mafia left I expect them to be mainly vanilla claiming)

Why?

[buldermar]

P-edit: No mae's role name wasn't supposed to be a part of the pm at all and my correct role pm was just that part taken out.

Didn't the mod say that there had been no errors?

[buldermar]

P-edit: I was told that shouldn't have been there and nothing else. Mae being confirmed town to me wasn't said to be wrong so that's still true.

You're dead if they don't publicly verify that there has been at least one error in role PM.

Mod: Has there been any set up/role pm errors?

If there were any errors as such, they are either undiscovered or dealt with as is appropriate to the situation.

I verify the above answer. It is all you will receive on the matter.

Missed this. I guess this confirms you as town, Mehdi, as the last part is obviously designed to avoid any situation in which you're being wrongfull lynched over lying (which obviously wouldn't be included had you been a scum lying about the matter of there being an error). At least this is my interpretation.

[buldermar]

NO DEATHS N3

Mehdi, did you attempt to kill last night?

Have you not been following this game at all? This question has been asked several times already - and answered.

[buldermar]

And we've mass claimed just about everything by now (missing who did zdenek target with his protects but beyond that I think everything). I also want to hear your watch results now that mass claim is over (no one claimed a killing power although bumi did claim joat who protected targeted vifam).

We're also still missing the role name of Shinori.

[buldermar]

Has the Mehdi/Maenara issue been resolved yet?

The mod essentially confirmed that Mehdi is town without doing so directly.

[buldermar]

Sanjay that doesn't account for Maenara's false rolename. Are we just going to assume it was a mod error? How does that even happen?

It makes sense. Mods confirm that it was an error, but

even though it's an error, it does not mean Mehdi is town.

[buldermar]

THAT'S EXACTLY WHY MEHDI "CLAIMED" MAE'S "ROLE NAME" BEFORE MAE CLAIMED.

HE KNEW MAE WAS GOING TO CLAIM VERY SOONISH.

AND HE WANTED MAE TO GO WITH HIS LIE.

We hit jackpot if they're SK and scum ;O

[buldermar]

Well, why can't it just be a general statement? The kind of statements mods make that are designed to NOT GIVING ANYTHING AWAY (HOPEFULLY)?

It didn't seem very general to me but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

[buldermar]

Mehdi you really can't keep up this charade any longer.

It's best to out the fact you're SK, team up with the town for a while, and we'll let you live.

Otherwise, you're getting lynched today *shrug*

If we're lynching Maenara we might as well have him kill Maenara and see the flip before lynching him, no?

[buldermar]

Buldermar, I don't know if you know what "essentially" or "confirmed" or "town" mean.

I had not read the thread in its entirety when I answered that question. The Maenara=scum, Mehdi=SK theory seems plausible.

[buldermar]

Missed this. I guess this confirms you as town, Mehdi, as the last part is obviously designed to avoid any situation in which you're being wrongfull lynched over lying (which obviously wouldn't be included had you been a scum lying about the matter of there being an error). At least this is my interpretation.

What?

Just... no.

IF the mod had put there were no errors, then Mehdi would be lynched on the spot.

And notice how the mod CAN'T do that to not leek out any info.

SO IF there were any errors, they were dealt with.

That makes sense.

[buldermar]

The mods DID NOT CONFIRM AN ERROR.

Buldermar, I probably could have predicted the mod response to that question before we read it. It says absolutely nothing.

What were you expecting? "Oh yeah, medhi is for sure a liar. Better lynch him, guys."?

I don't know the rules on this matter. If there was an error and a player was about to be lynched because of it, what would you do as a mod?

[buldermar]

I'm confused buld, do you think mehdi's bad or not?

I'm confused too. But for Mehdi to be good at this point there would have to have been an error. If there was an error that was about to get Mehdi unfairly lynched, I think the mods would ensure that a lynch wouldn't happen based on that error, as that would have been unfair for Mehdi (but doing so without confirming any role of Mehdi). They didn't do this - they have allowed for

the possibility

that no such error happened (they obviously don't say "there is no error", they say "if there was an error it would have been dealt with appropriately", but dealing with it appropriately entails that someone isn't getting unfairly lynched based on it), and they wouldn't have done so if there really was an error that would lead to Mehdi being lynched. Therefore, Mehdi must lying on this matter, meaning that Mehdi is non-town. Makes sense?

VOTE: Mehdi

[buldermar]

I meant to write (but doing so without confirming any alignment of Mehdi).

[buldermar]

But absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.

There are known knowns and there are known unknowns.

The mod talk basically says nothing. I think you are barking up a lamp post here.

In this case, absence of evidence

is

the same as evidence of absence in the sense that in scenario X mod will do Y, mod didn't do Y therefore not scenario X, where scenario X is Mehdi about to get unfairly lynched based on an error in role PM and Y is taking appropriate action, i.e., preventing that a lynch based on this happens.

[buldermar]

listen

mehdi has to be lying about being town.

even IF he is telling the truth about the mod making an error.

making one townie a BP VIG who knows another person in the game is "town" and has no connection to them is

highly

highly

PREPOSTEROUS

We agree on the conclusion then, which is what matters anyway.

[buldermar]

Buldermar, I don't really see why you think medhi is scum if you think he got the wrong name on his PM.

But whatever, welcome to the medhi train.

Read post 5434. I conclude that he must be lying about having gotten the wrong name on his PM.

[buldermar]

... and thanks

[buldermar]

Also there is the simple fact that it's a rather unlikely error to make in the first place.

[buldermar]

Retracting in what way? I lied about protecting Vifam because I wanted to see if AV was really an Odd Night watcher. I watched Mehdi. AV if he was telling the truth would have seen me. He did my say "I've been blocked" he specifically said no one visited Mehdi. He is a liar.

My abilities + role is pretty straight forward Sanjay.

VOTE: AVox

You're a genius.

VOTE: AVox

[buldermar]

Medhi, I have a song for you to listen to.

A+

[buldermar]

I'm actually interested in why fake claim watcher. Lynch av shoot dgb works.

I'm pretty sure that if you're not getting lynched, you'll have to shoot Maenara.

[buldermar]

I'm actually interested in why fake claim watcher. Lynch av shoot dgb works.

As for the mae is scum and I am too then why help her when a SK job is to generally to kill everyone else which would include other scum. Anyways I've mostly defended it already and explained all I could. Buld clearing a town bp vig would be pretty bad for game balance considering if they're cleared they won't ever die.

You maintain that the mods made a mistake with respect to the content of your role PM, though, right?

[buldermar]

Yeah still don't want to. She's scum that I saved is a great theory when a SK needs to get rid of scum just as much as they would town.

P-edit: Yes.

I think it's a more plausible theory than the mods making a mistake and allow you to get lynched over their mistake.

[buldermar]

I'm actually interested in why fake claim watcher. Lynch av shoot dgb works.

I'm pretty sure that if you're not getting lynched, you'll have to shoot Maenara.

TBH I still don't get this logic.

If we're lynching both of Maenara and Mehdi, we might as well have the one kill the other and save a lynch, no?

[buldermar]

Except it's fairly known that global role blocking didn't occur and was just a theory brood had and later shown false. Any other ways for you to be telling the truth?

"no result" and "him being roleblocked" are indistinguishable in some cases. It 'could' theoretically be the case here, but his phrasing that "nobody visited" is weird if the wording was "no result" in his PM.

[buldermar]

Buld how can scum win if I'm clear. Think about that for a minute or two if needed.

I'm not suggesting that they clear you, I'm suggesting that, if there was an error, they'd let the rest of the players know, which wouldn't clear you

per se

as you could still be a lying scum

even though

your PM contained an error. But it seems like many players here disagree on this so maybe my premise is wrong. Still, I find it too unlikely that TWO mods BOTH would overlook the SAME PM mistake in this manner.

[buldermar]

TBH Mehdi your role just sounds too ridiculously OP.

LOL...

That timing... Coincidentally you chose to bring this up now? Despite it having been debated for so long? CO IN CI DEN TAL LY

[buldermar]

Heck, you supposedly got a result, so your action went through.

This 'could' be wrong if "no result" and "him being blocked" are indistinguishable.

[buldermar]

Buld I doubt he'd be the one role blocked if scum had a role blocker. Just don't target one of the people av plans to watch and his power won't touch you.

I do too, and you can see that I'm voting him, right? I'm just sticking to the facts instead of witch hunting and the facts are that there IS A THEORETICAL WAY IN WHICH BOTH OF THEM COULD BE TOWN.

[buldermar]

What other error could it be? What error in a scum role pm could they have done at the same time?

I don't think there are is chance of you being scum, but I may be overlooking something.

[buldermar]

That's bad modding if they are indistinguishable.

No, it is not.

"Some moderators will tell Watchers whose targets were not visited by anyone "No Result", which is indistinguishable from the result they would have gotten if the Watcher were Roleblocked."

[buldermar]

P-edit: There's a difference between looking for all reasonable possibilities and just looking for all possibilities.

Well I still consider it a reasonable possibility I suppose.

[buldermar]

Is 5495 supposed to be different?

No, I think you're either SK or town and never scum.

[buldermar]

Inclusion of any false information that could out you as lying. You have a motive in budding up with a scum as SK because town is doing quite good, so you're increasing your own odds of winning that way. You could be SK wanting Maenara to think that you're a scum who also knows she's scum. You being SK as far as I can tell relies on the premise that Maenara is scum. Therefore, you can clear yourself by killing Maenara. I feel like I'm missing something important though (aside from the possibility of an error having occured and both of you being town).

[buldermar]

2. Sanjay

combinatorialEnigma

3. Nachomamma8

4. AurorusVox

5. Alduskkel

8. DeasVail

10. Sunshine and Rainbows (shadoweh and working manju)

12. buldermar

13. Phillammon

14. DeltaWave

torgonitoh

15. ActionDan

17. Maenara

GaryOak

19. Titan (Ser Arthur Dayne/Tammy)

21. BroodKingEXE

22. ζ (lowercaseZeta)

23. Zdenek

Alsark

24. Shinori

Shrimp85

Guy_Named_Riggs

25. Bumi

Robocopter87

26. DrippingGoofball

Murderface

Nikanor

27. Mehdi2277

numberQ

28. Vifam

30. BT

Pretty colors.

That's a lot of green claimed VT's.

[buldermar]

Curious why zeta is just yellow? Or why shi is light orange?

P-edit: I've been trying to shoot scum unless you think I had a town read on philla and cheery and why buddy mae out of all possible scum when I could try to help someone like Av who'd likely be smarter about that. Do you think all of my shots are aimed at town (I don't mind having them directed on someone that I don't have as clear).

You explicitly trying to shoot scum is just all the more reason for you to buddy up with scum behind the scenes. And you would buddy mae supposedly because she was the one you got info about in your role PM. I don't think you particularly cared whether the shots were aimed at town or scum if you're SK, so you'd just play along, comply and be reasonable.

[buldermar]

Shi is yellow which is null because that's what they are. Quil is light green because claim + looking back at :effort D2: and his approach to this day he's fine.

For the sake of ~*~absolute green~*~ you could downgrade Titan one but they're really probably town.

Nacho? S&R? AD?

[buldermar]

Would there be a way to gain info about Maenara or Mehdi over night if we lynch AVox? I feel like that may be our best decision at the moment.

[buldermar]

Shi's mainly has the way she claimed helping her. That and I think quil is solid green and not light green.

P-edit: I can say that's a dumb idea for me as scum, but there's no real way to argue I know I wouldn't try to keep one other scum alive. Especially with the fact I'm BP if I was scum BP who cares if scum want to kill me.

I'm talking about you as SK and I think you need to distinguish between scum and SK for us to have any meaningful conversation about this matter.

[buldermar]

P-edit: Especially as BP SK would it be meaningful to keep scum alive as they can't kill you anyway.

[buldermar]

Something just struct me.

How often are SK's BP in smaller games? Is it only common for large games or for both?

[buldermar]

I can say that's a dumb idea for me as SK, but there's no real way to argue I know I wouldn't try to keep one other mafia alive. Especially with the fact I'm BP if I was SK BP who cares if mafia want to kill me.

If you're BP and can't be killed, then there is no disadvantage to keeping a scum alive - but a clear advantage if town is currently in the lead.

[buldermar]

So Avox was scum ALL ALONG

No he suddently decided to switch alignment.

[buldermar]

It depends on the type of roles. The more investigative power the more likely they'll be investigative immune. The more killing powers the more likely they'll be BP.

Thanks, but I'd also like others opinion on this matter as yours is biased for obvious reasons.

[buldermar]

Then why claim vig to be directed at mafia?

You claim vig to not get lynched.

[buldermar]

Medhi is SK (?)

I don't know but from what I can tell she can't be scum so it's SK or town.

[buldermar]

I wasn't getting lynched nor have I really been suspected for anything until all this role mess up occurred.

No but the earlier you claim vig the more plausible it is because you lose the option of backtracking when feedback is given after each night.

[buldermar]

I don't trust that you can't see why it would be advantageous for an SK to be "confirmed" as a vig by town when you're at the same time BP.

[buldermar]

I wasn't getting lynched nor have I really been suspected for anything until all this role mess up occurred.

BTW this isn't relevant because if you are SK, you would expect of Maenara to comply to your suggestion regarding her supposed role name.

[buldermar]

Then what does that make Maenara, if he was greenscum he'd just go with it instead of feeding Medhi to the dogs, unless he KNEW Medhi was a SK, but greenscum probably don't have a rolecop sooooooooooo

Would he? May he have thought that he could claim that Mehdi was lying, knowing that Mehdi would have to be either scum or SK, and, in turn, possibly gain some town cred and be spared?

[buldermar]

Unless Maenara really IS town and just got caught up in Medhi's shenanigans

That's only possible if there was an error with the actual role name in the PM to Mehdi. In every other case, Maenara will be scum.

[buldermar]

Yeah if she was town I'd know she wouldn't and if she was scum why risk my life for hers when the moment she dies and flips scum everyone would know I lied.

At that point you could always just claim that there had been an error in your role PM *shrug*

[buldermar]

My head is hurting from this

[buldermar]

Yeah if she was town I'd know she wouldn't and if she was scum why risk my life for hers when the moment she dies and flips scum everyone would know I lied.

At that point you could always just claim that there had been an error in your role PM *shrug*

Would anyone believe that? (yeah I realize we're arguing a different error right now too)

I don't know... I'm tempted to just put this discussion aside as you're not getting lynched today either way. We should discuss what night action is appropriate for power roles tonight.

[buldermar]

Shooting Dgb works well for me and I think most people.

Buld I'm in the worse position here having to argue all kinds of theory on how I must be scum when one role error screwed me over. I still find having to argue not being a mafia vig to be funny.

You do realize that I no longer propose that idea, right? I'm strictly saying that there is no way you can be anything but town or SK, and I don't think the idea of you being SK is 'that' unreasonable, given that BP is also commonly associated with SK - perhaps especially in a game with this many killing roles.

Anyway, I do want to say one thing: if you 'are' town and if an error 'did' happen, I feel really sorry for your position. That's unfortunately at it affects this game a lot. I'm not in a position to decide what the correct action from the mods perspective would be, but I trust that they did their best to solve the issue in a fair manner.

[buldermar]

Mehdi should shoot DGB or Maenara. Probably DGB, since getting Mehdi to comply with the latter option is going to be difficult.

It's not going to be difficult. If we want him to shoot Maenara, we tell him to do so or get lynched - but I'm not entirely convinced that shooting Maenara is superior to shooting, for instance, DGB.

[buldermar]

What roles have powers left to use besides me and vifam? Vifam can protect bumi/dan (or really any pair of likely town so they live) and me shoot dgb (I will not shoot mae).

I think at this point it's adviceable to make it at least a triplet of possible protections to balance things.

[buldermar]

And me and mae can only really be dealt with by lynching one of us two or trusting us since I have no reason to shoot her.

This really isn't how things work. If you have two options:
1) getting lynched
2) shooting Maenara

then option 2 is by far better as you're a much more useful role than Maenara.

[buldermar]

- Quil just randomly gives someone a hat. Maybe someone we trust, e.g. Nacho.

NO, I WANT A HAT I ASKED FOR IT ALREADY

I promise I'll put in TONS OF EFFORT if I get a hat!!

[buldermar]

- Vifam protects Bumi.

This one is bad. Has to be at least one of three possible people.

[buldermar]

I'd rather vifam protect one of two people just to prevent scum from killing two people instead of one (I doubt they'd go for a 50/50 chance). Outside of that night plans work and I think hat should go to s/r since they wanted it (or any character in flavor that wants hats).

This is my point. They're never ever going for 50/50. In effect, we're wasting "protective ability" by only "protecting" 2 people when it could have been 3 (as they're also unlikely to willingly accept a 1 in 3 chance).

[buldermar]

buldermar who do you want Mehdi to target?

I'm still undecided because one the one hand it really sucks having to continue this discussion tomorrow but on the other it also sucks having Mehdi shooting Maenara if both are town. Bleh.

[buldermar]

p-edit: triplet? We can only split up the protection so much. Who would you want to be in the triplet?

The three most likely town roles, whoever people think that is (obviously from my own perspective I'd argue that I should be one of them).

[buldermar]

P-edit: I'd be willing to take a 66 percent chance of killing someone if I was mafia so I don't think a triplet is a great idea (although I guess with the amount of mafia dead they might not be willing to take any risks now).

I really think triplet is the most balanced but I can try and do some calculations in a few.

[buldermar]

My point is I think they'd accept the 2/3 chance of killing.

If it's balanced then it's good for us either way.

[buldermar]

My point is I think they'd accept the 2/3 chance of killing.

If it's balanced then it's good for us either way.

Also, if both scum team are cool with 2/3 then it's superb as they might target the same person.

[buldermar]

Although without vifam having any protection source he'll likely be killed now.

That's not certain at all - it depends if both team fears targetting the same person.

[buldermar]

In fact, it's WIFOM and odds of Vifam being targeted should be no greater than anyone else.

[buldermar]

Eh.

I say Medhi shoots DGB, DGB is most likely scum and since Medhi said she is gonna throw us the finger if we tell her to shoot Maenara no matter WHAT, we might as well kill off one of the sucmteams. If DGB flips town I'll be really surprised

Fine I'm alright with Mehdi shooting DGB.

[buldermar]

TRIPLET: Brood, Bumi and who?

[buldermar]

Is there any possibility that Mehdi is faking being BP vig and is just a vig who is trying to avoid getting nightkilled by scum? Or did it somehow get confirmed that he's BP?

[buldermar]

Nacho. He's innocent by Bumi's investigation, remember?

No I didn't, but that's cool, then we have 3 confirmed or close to confirmed towns in there.

[buldermar]

No, Nacho and Brood are not worth the protection

What is wrong with you people

They are confirmed, so they are the best townies to protect.

[buldermar]

It's hard to confirm being BP especially when every night I've been alive someone has protected me. And I have no reason to fake this long when it's getting me in a position of being lynched which is worse then being night killed.

Well, I think there still is merit to it, but there is no way to confirm/disconfirm at this point without you dying anyway so it doesn't matter (and it wouldn't be too bad having scum waste a nightkill on you thinking that this may be possible, right? *wink*)

[buldermar]

Zde needs to come in here and claim he can protect two people.

But if he cannot be nightkilled, it would be smarter to not use his nightability as of yet.

[buldermar]

Nacho is clear and Brood is near clear. Whether they've helped a lot is arguable but I'd say they're fine to protect since clears at the end can screw any mafia team.

This.

[buldermar]

Really the whole point of the BP claim was philla saying there's likely another bp and so that he didn't get stuck when no else claimed bp.

Oh true, I forgot about him. So your alignment is actually tied to his as well... that means scum can't really kill him either as long as you're being suspected.

[buldermar]

I want nacho at least in it for sake of being clear and I guess you can swap brood for someone else.

If I don't get a hat can I at least be protected? xDxD

[buldermar]

Does anyone have the link to the page Titan made with the claims? I forgot if the other vig was a one shot vig or what he was...