Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Amrun]

Okay so I exist!!!

But I warned mod pre-replacing that I won't be able to catch up until Monday, due to work and phone posting until then.

I'll be like, here and checking the thread(ish) but expecting me to know wtf is going on will just leave me going LOL until I can sit down with the thread.

[Amrun]

You have yet to accept my friend request, Amrun.

On what? If it's Steam, I don't have computer access on the weekends due to work!!

I promise I will on Monday!

[Amrun]

Okay, I just now got to a computer. But now my internet is taking like 10 minutes to load a page, which is going to be fucking annoying.

I'll try to troubleshoot this, and have a couple of other tasks to take care of first, but I'll start my read-through at some point tonight for sure.

[Amrun]

I haven't made my internet cooperate yet, but unless Matt has straight out scum claimed, I won't be voting him today. If he's alive tomorrow, then we'll see, based on his play!

I can't do jack with the internet like this; it's awful. Still working on it.

I'm making this post from my phone cuz easier.

Can someone tell me Antagon's claim so I can at least not be totally ignorant if I don't sort this out before deadline?

[Amrun]

Tammy, my intro is underwhelming? What intro? I haven't read the game yet. Lol. I warned upon replacing in that it would take a while because of how my life works out. Mod said it was okay.

I managed to ISO Antagon on my phone last night before passing out. If not for the claim, I would have no issue at all with him swinging. With the claim, it's kind of meh but I doubt fakeclaims don't exist. We could leave one night to test -- that's what I would prefer -- but everyone else seems to be chomping at the bit so be it.

[Amrun]

hp's lashing out without taking into account context is not attractive.

[Amrun]

Antagon, you legit only have one scum read?

[Amrun]

Yeah, I find him incredibly scummy but I also think it's pretty safe to leave him alive for a night and see what happens -- likely, the night time will sort it out.

[Amrun]

Well, I haven't read the thread beyond when I replaced in yet, but so far... I'm leaning scummy. I find that as scum, she manufactures things she thinks are town, and generally has less conviction. I found her "lightbulb" and "you don't need to know" indicative of the former.

I'll let you know in a more cognizant way after I read.

I do plan to read tonight -- I just got home a little while ago, but DID manage to fix my internet. Apparently, windows was downloading an update in the background last night... derp.

[Amrun]

I will! I'm just trying to get some other real life things done before I commit to sitting down to do it, because I'd like to just blitz through at one time.

[Amrun]

Vote: enomis

Because of the alphabet.

Since there's a role that we need to protect, I think that we should probably be somewhat restrictive in claiming: VT's should not claim, PR's can claim depending on their role and the game state, but should consider not claiming. Of course, no hammering until someone has the opportunity to claim/refuse to claim.

Also, spamming the thread should be strongly avoided, since when the days get down to 72 hours, we're going to need to be able to read the thread in that time.

Zdenek is right-town. We should be doing this the whole game, re: claims.

VOTE: mattp

You have 5 pages to town tell...go!

That's contingent on there being a dumbass in the game

Hello,

Hello, nice to meet you.

Whimsical Eggplant, are you Mastin

No.

I'm not particularly familiar with this site as of now (played a few games on the site a long time ago), but from the games I've been reading lately, it doesn't seem like people try to break the game too often or without good reason. Why not just enjoy the mod's really cool setup and play the game properly? (I'm not against what's being advocated, but I feel that it is much more useful near the

end

of a game, when we all have more information. At this point, we know next to nothing, but scum have a pool of information between each other, and are much more likely to benefit from our information. Agreed with mattp(town read) that releasing flavor is a bad idea.

I'd also like to comment that silly joke votes at this point will be met with a quicklynch as we're definitely no longer in a random voting/checkin phase (I forget what the acronym for this is ) There is no reason for anyone to not have a vote down at this point, so please put your vote on someone and provide a reason for it.

I feel that Tammy is trying to feign content by discussing game mechanics/merely commenting instead of scumhunting. Therefore I will

VOTE: Tammy

Whimsical Eggplant is wrong-town. Too ballsy for scum.


MattP is concerning me so far. Why are you not solving the puzzle, Matt?

[Amrun]

My shoes have a mine detector. I'm like, untouchable.

Serial killer. KILL IT WITH FIRE

how about we stop the circle jerk....

and lynch fferyllt

Lynch Tammy first

As much as I think jumping to SK is a bit of a baffler, I didn't notice that this might be a soft claim until Syryana quoted it. I thought about it, and how much sense does it make for someone who is actually a bullet proof to do this? (None.) But it shows Syryana is LOOKING for soft claims in a way that I wasn't. This is a major scum point for Syryana, though the rest of his posts haven't continued to strike me in the same way.

Pedit2: Yep, Matt is scum too. This game gonna be EZ

You're very bad at this

I suggest you replace out and let Amrun take your spot

<3

Hey Matt, just a question. How fun do you think it'd be to be scum with amrun?

MATT

WHY DIDN'T YOU ANSWER THIS

I like your town list. I'd add mrbungle to the probtown.

withholding judgement on Pjo.

And you're town.

On the converse, this is one of those posts that I liked from syryana.

I figured that my thought process would be obvious even if one didn't agree with my POV. Since you listed the potential consequences that shockingly DID enter my thought process, I found it prudent to reveal that yes, that is actually a part of my reasoning for the vote.

I brought up the other game to demonstrate that the action does have potential scum motivation and generally no town motivation if a damn good reason for proposing it isn't brought up with it... none of this vague "I have a good reason" bullshit. (My reference to the other game is to put context on the action being scummy, not a personal meta reference.)

I do notice the context you are trying to put my reference of meta into seems to be attempting to make my reference to it look really bad? Are you town? I'm curious.

Ehhh. You get a pass for now.

UNVOTE: Zachrulez
VOTE: fferyllt

This zach post, followed by this very lackluster unvote from Tierce, give me bad feelings about Tierce. Zach is right; his thought processes were exceedingly obvious and the way Tierce tried to twist them was kind of "lolwut" to me as I was reading them. But I was unsure from that -- but then backing down so quickly? That does not seem like the town Tierce I know.

I'm a bit wary about claiming universes, since it could make scum's job easier.

I quoted this to explain the weird evolution of thought that has happened to me while reading re: eggplant slip. The WHOLE TIME, I have been horribly confused why people thought eggplant slipped re: matt townread. I was like, "But Matt DID say that! What are they oh god what is happening" I was going to make a big section of this post dedicated to why you are all on crack.

But then I went back to find the post that Matt said it, and it wasn't there! Instead, I think I mis-attributed this Zdenek post as Matt's. Heh.


okay onward ho

[Amrun]

All it took was for Tierce to ask nicerly ffery?

What don't you like about the wagon Tierce?

Echoing my reaction here. Reading zach strongtown.

Tammy

– Is also null..although I have her on my watch list, as her scum game is pretty good and I’d hate to get caught with my pants down…

I've never been accused of have a pretty good scum game before so <3.

(I'm obviously town already if you know how to read me though )

I really dislike this appeal to authority. (If you knew what you were doing, you'd read me as town.) Tierce does it, too, but I've seen Tierce do it before as both alignments (though I have to say, more as scum, I think), so it didn't really surprise me there.

Let's start with the easy part: explain your Townreads.

Why did you ask this, Tierce?

Antagon replaces Whimsical Eggplant. Welcome him!

just now remembered this is a thing

makes everything make more sense


OKAY I'm like half way through but I'm gonna play aoe with katsuki now srrryyyyy. If I don't finish tonight I'll finish tomorrow for sure.

[Amrun]

Pedit: Amrun, did you read the conversation between me and Tammy before that "softclaim"? Because it's pretty apparent the "softclaim" is nothing of the sort(see my comment about lacing dance floors with mines) and the "SERIAL KILLER" was intended as a joke.

Of course I'm aware it's a joke. That doesn't change what it says about you that you decided to joke in THAT particular way.

Nooo amrun townread me or I look like an idiot for wanting you to replace in

but matt

I still love you.

And I've not officially NOT townread you. You just haven't convinced me yet.

Why did you want me to replace in?

Will you explain how ffery was lying now?

Tammy, my intro is underwhelming? What intro? I haven't read the game yet. Lol. I warned upon replacing in that it would take a while because of how my life works out. Mod said it was okay.

Yeah, intro to me is the first couple posts, which were meh. You'll forgive me I'm sure if you remember our last game you made excuses for not reading and doing stuff and turned out to be scum. (I realize it was a difficult time in your life, but still.)

It took me a while to remember what you were talking about. Yeah, that happened, but it was alignment irrelevant, and this is quite a different ballgame altogether. I told everyone from the outset that nothing doing until Monday, and then internet didn't cooperate. I'm reading, though, obviously.


Btw, katsuki stomped me in AoE with entirely monks. how. why.

[Amrun]

WHY IS P-EDIT NOT WORKING

[Amrun]

[

Tammy

– Is also null..although I have her on my watch list, as her scum game is pretty good and I’d hate to get caught with my pants down…

I've never been accused of have a pretty good scum game before so <3.

(I'm obviously town already if you know how to read me though )

I really dislike this appeal to authority. (If you knew what you were doing, you'd read me as town.) Tierce does it, too, but I've seen Tierce do it before as both alignments (though I have to say, more as scum, I think), so it didn't really surprise me there.

Appeal to buzzwhat? Preettttyyy sure the little heart there is a thanks for someone actually being paranoid of me, someone who doesn't believe they have a very good scum game. And I'm kinda sure the emoticon denotes a semi-joke. No, SOO probs doesn't know how to read me as he's only seen me once as scum in the game he's referencing.

You're not wrecking face Amrun

___________________

Interested in Syry's reasoning on ffery scum.

Aaaaaand I tried to comprehend the past couple pages but I had a ridiculously long day an an interview so my mind is fried. I will get back to this tomorrow after work.

More of the same. You're dismissing a comment on you without comprehending it. I would say this is scummy of you, but it's probably null, since I know you freak out when someone votes you no matter what. But I'm not voting you, so it's a little extreme here...

[Amrun]

In the context of the game it DOES make sense. I DID understand it. It's not the first time you've done it this game. Dropping little hints here and there that if we were smart enough, if we KNEW YOUR META, we WOULD READ YOU AS TOWN. That's an appeal to authority -- it's not a "buzzword" and trying to dismiss it as such is silly. Even if you want to qualify it as a buzzword, that doesn't make it untrue.

And it wasn't a complaint I was making: I was saying that at first, when you made the comment, I didn't understand where you were coming from, but now, upon being remind of the game-that-shall-not-be-mentioned, I do, and that's okay, I get it, but I am reading now.

[Amrun]

Oh, and sorry if this is news, Tammy, but you are WELL known flailing after votes as any alignment. It was actually a conversation at Balto Meet. I assumed this is something you would know about your play, but if not... Merry Christmas? I was saying that because it's something I would normally designate as scummy but I think it's more of a null tell for you.

[Amrun]

You seem to have taken some offense -- I didn't mean anything I said as an insult. We all have quirks in our play, and it's not good or bad, just meta that we all get to know by playing with one another. It doesn't matter if there are emoticons, or if it's a joke. You don't get what I'm saying. I'm saying that the way you keep cheekily suggesting you are town, and that if we just knew you better, we would know you were town, is something that I find scummy. There's absolutely no need to be so condescending. I'm commenting on your play, in the context of a game, I think ... or am I not so sure? I have no idea where that came from. Calm down.

[Amrun]

WHY ARE MY BEAUTIFUL POSTS GONE

VOTE: hp_leaves

For anyone who was SLEEPING when this was discussed... I think there are two scum teams and that Antagon was ghost hammered by the other scum team to protect hp leaves.

[Amrun]

I haven't read the new posts yet... I'm v v tired but I will do this when I wake up. I started reading them but I'm falling asleep. Just got home from work.

[Amrun]

I don't agree, Tierce. There are ALL SORTS of ways to balance two scumteams, and the ghost hammering of Antagon makes no sense any other way. I myself have tried interesting ways of balancing two scumteams in a game Vi played. Of course it's POSSIBLE that there isn't two scum teams; this is simply my THEORY. As you yourself said, if it's in the game, it will make sense in the end.

It was discussed much more extensively in the posts that got erased. Basically, I don't think the kills look like either of them was a vig, making the other options limited, and given how the end of the day went down yesterday, I think it's two scumteams. Also just a thing that probably shouldn't hold water in my head but does anyway... I first had the thought when looking at the purple color, because I was expecting red for scum. I was like "nahhhhhh" but then when there were two kills I was like "BUT WAIT"

I do agree about the confusion re: Antagon flip. I'm not entirely sure how that happened, though Matt's reads genuinely. Syryana's is another story. I know myself I excitedly scrolled to the bottom, saw purple and assumed SK, then read more carefully and concluded scum.

[Amrun]

The color part is really not the part that is important. The important part is that it makes extremely little sense for scum to ghost hammer since Antagon was scum, and it makes EVEN LESS SENSE for TOWN to ghost hammer ESPECIALLY since no one has fessed up today.

The only other thing that even remotely makes sense is hp leaves being a big scum power (since Antagon was vanilla scum as far as I can tell), which STILL make hp leaves scum, sooooooooooooooooo.

[Amrun]

Why are there Matt votes right now? That's bad and you should feel bad.

I like Syryana more now because if I had two votes, the other would be on ffery, mostly for stuff that the tigers ate. She made no sense during the whole course of that conversation and it didn't read genuinely to me at all.

[Amrun]

@ferry: Nothing jumps out at me as scummy from soo. Seems fairly standard soo town play to me, at least so far. I'm usually better at reading him in context a little later in the game due to his very minimal play style.

[Amrun]

When did you take this idea from Adel, hp?

[Amrun]

post_id=5054371 time=1372108328 user_id=10128 post_num=913]

Who is Adel?

A good player who likes to analyze tells too much

Why did you ignore my question?

I really don't like this because it's divorcing responsibility from your own vote. "A good player said this is a tell, and that's why I'm voting Matt!" Not "I, personally, think Matt is scum." If you're wrong, it wasn't your tell to begin with, right?

[Amrun]

I never once insisted that it is #3. I literally said the EXACT same thing as sword, except I said I favor option 3 as my pet option. I said several other things are possible, including option 2, but that MOST options STILL point towards hp being scum, HENCE THE VOTE ON HP.

Your sidesniping is unappreciated and unwarranted, though I'm unsure if you're trying to sling mud and plant seeds or just plain rude. Because I've known you to do THAT as either alignment.

[Amrun]

LUCKILY FOR US

hp is scummy by day play too!

[Amrun]

He won't take responsibility even for his own stances. I no likey.

Also MattP is townz.

[Amrun]

@Tierce:

a) Nothing you said even remotely came close to accurately reflecting the things I said in-game.

b) You weren't even attempting to draw conclusions. If you had been, that would have been quite different. What you actually said was "this is a null tell."

c) You could have said the same thing in a way that would not have been rude, but you chose to be rude.

Especially given A and C, that's why I commented at all. If I had been brow beating people for considering any other possibility than the one I am considering (which I most certainly am not) OR if you hadn't deliberately gone on your way to say something that would step on just about anyone's toes, I would have just rolled my eyes and moved on.

But since there is literally no way one can interpret my posts that way, it bears commenting on to see how you would react.

Are you just being rude for rudeness' sake? Are you going to pretend you weren't being rude on purpose, which you CLEARLY were? Were you doing it to try and get a rise out of me and read me better?

The answer to these questions say something about your alignment.

Your response is to mollify me but continue to be rude, which, all in all, is a fairly good one alignment-wise. But it does not indicate that you are really trying to read me better, so it's not the answer I was hoping for. I thought you were somewhat scummy yesterday, but in light of the flip, I hesitantly changed my read to town. I would really like you to just towntell or scumtell so I can move on, but the paranoia is niggling at me. I have to sort out the things I find scummy in your play all the time from the things that actually are scummy (as with anyone).

[Amrun]

No, I said what you did was good for alignment, which in hindsight I can see is poor wording. What I mean is that I find your response fairly townie, but not AS townie as some iterations of all possible responses.

But that your conclusion is null is not what bothered me; it's that your wording was DELIBERATELY rude. There are tons of other ways to word the same observations that hold just as much information but are not rude. I was trying to determine your motivation in wording it that way -- which, in the end, seems to be rudeness for rudeness' sake. I don't really care what you think of me or my play, especially given that most (but not all) of your criticisms seem to stem, like this one, from highly selective reading. I can doggedly repeat that my conclusion is not the only right one, but you can conclude that I think my conclusion is the only right one and just ignore all the things I said because ?? (The ?? is what I was trying to figure out.)

Knowing that you're just being rude is important to me, because in this situation, scum is less likely to be rude for rudeness' sake. Making enemies gets you lynched faster.

[Amrun]

Tammy that really IS tinfoil hat... But I think I kinda like it!! I don't think it's accurate because I independently think Matt is town. But it's so nice and wonderful and neat I wish it was true.

[Amrun]

wait a minute what the fuck is cultitante

this is something i'm supposed to know ISN'T IT

[Amrun]

Oh, it was the apocalypse thingie, wasn't it?

Were we supposed to know that before it flipped? Have I forgotten something crucial I once knew?!

[Amrun]

WELL it's not unlikely if my koolaid is the tastiest. The scum likely know if there is/isn't two scum teams simply based on their team(s). If there is, he could easily assume it was on the other scum team.

And even then, I'm not sure how unlikely it is to feign it -- I almost want to agree, and almost had a moment of striking doubt, but then I thought... Why would town want us to autolynch the thingie even if it was scum? It changes the game in a way to favor scum. I don't really follow that train of thought.

Another possibility is assuming it is self-aligned (which is often denoted scum), which doesn't seem too strange to me. Myself, I never assumed it was town. I just assumed "who the fuck knows" and decided not to draw conclusions without more information.

Hp, feel free to chime in.

p-edit: My first thought was "necrophiliacs can fuck vig shots" and this is disturbing. I think I need a time out.

[Amrun]

post_id=5036869 time=1371358721 user_id=10128 post_num=695]It might be all the stress but did Antagon just softclaim "the role"?

Why is he still alive and not hanging?

Let's talk about this post

Why would town actually ever want to lynch a player that puts us into countdown mode

Yeah, that's what I just said in the post above.

Like it didn't even cross my mind when I originally read it, just when you were talking about it above as a town tell. I was like "omg what if he's right, no my reaaads" (Exactly like this: )

But then I was like "no, what in the actual fuck"

[Amrun]

You mean an sk that is also a secret voter???

I could dig that, though it would be quite strange.

p-edit: Wait, really?

But Tierce thought Antagon was town, right?

Why would tierce-sk-ghostvoter do that?

[Amrun]

Why would you think calling someone town who is, in fact, town would give her cred? Scum know who town are (in a straightforward 1-scum-flavor game, I suppose... which in this argument isn't the case.)

Hmm.

Well, it's an interesting theory. Not sure how grounded it is, but kool aid is fun, isn't it?

[Amrun]

I meant to ask you, Tierce: what is your theory on the extra kill?

[Amrun]

I think you and maybe one other person were the only ones to suspect zach. I DON'T think any good vig would target him on night 1, even if they suspected him peripherally. It's not OUT OF THE QUESTION, I just find it unlikely.

Zach is a more experienced player with a current scummy, and that often intimidates scum, ESPECIALLY new-scum.

p-edit: Sure, could be -- but either way the only really palpable motivation for doing that is to protect hp leaves.

Even completely disregarding that whole thing, I'd want to lynch hp leaves. So I really, REALLY want to lynch him in light of that.

[Amrun]

Well, it really only means that you're not the ghost voter. But. Yeah.

[Amrun]

I think asserting that you wouldn't flip flop on reads as scum is a little strange, Tierce, since I've seen you do that But, regardless, I think the likelihood of you being scum with Antagon is low, and don't have any interest in lynching you.

[Amrun]

I'm actually interested in Matt's 180 as well.

But it may have happened pre-tigers. Not sure.

[Amrun]

Because mattp's play, as scum, would be terribad. And that is not Matt.

[Amrun]

Because mattp's play, as scum, would be terribad. And that is not Matt.

Allow me to disagree and say that MattP was p. terrible scum in Abarat 2. I might be biased because I knew his alignment, but it was definitely not stellar.

Let me rephrase. His okay doesn't make sense as coming from a scum motivated place.

[Amrun]

====[]

We're spinning wheels.

[Amrun]

You know what makes your analysis of her hp leaves analysis more relevant?

An hp leaves flip.

[Amrun]

Tierce, you being so sure that there is "the" mafia shot is quite disconcerting.

[Amrun]

Look at the kill names. If a mafia shot was stopped, fine, but look at it--what are the odds it's the not-scum kill? I'm not *sure*, but I'm pretty damn certain.

I'm not saying impaled isn't a scum flavor, because I have no clue.

Which kills fail/succeed have nothing to do with their origin.

In fact, mattP seems an odd scum kill to me -- perhaps enomis was an odd vig kill.

But up until the start of this day I was comfortable with you being town. Now, you seem to know more about the kills and kill flavors than me. That's giving me paranoia hat. Also your posts about "why would I fail so much at my reads as scum" makes NO SENSE, as scum are trying to protect their buddies which makes their reads far more likely to fail than the average townsperson.

P-edit: lol okay

[Amrun]

Yeah, sk would make far more sense than vig -- but the distinction was arbitrary in this case. I meant I don't know who killed them, but you do, and that's disconcerting.

And your flailing on Antagon is THE reason i had you as town -- but not because it itself was town, because honestly it made you look quite scummy, but because I knew you were smart enough to not do that with your scumbuddy.

But you trying to swear this makes you town is nullifying that. First of all, it doesn't mean you're town. It means that you're unlikely to be scum WITH Antagon. With hammer shenanigans and an unaccounted for kill, that doesn't mean town, and even though you admitted this when pressed, you keep subtly changing wording to others to suggest otherwise.

But the more you insist that what you did makes you town the less sure I am that you're right. The only goal of scum is to look town, and what you're doing is you wouldn't do something with obvious scum motivation because it's too obvious. I had come to this conclusion privately, but the thing is is that the more you act like it's now ridiculous to lynch you the more it becomes clear is you think this activity makes you look town. And that means that you're completely cognizant of it and would have done it as either alignment.

I'm trying to determine how tinfoil hat this is, and I had decided "too much" until you rang major "inside information" alarm bells after day start.

[Amrun]

Eh, I've decided Tierce is town. I'm letting the paranoia go. She does usually insist a lot of things make her town that don't at all.

[Amrun]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

I've been waiting for this to get addressed organically, but now that Zdenek has asked, it's out of the bag.

Syryana, a town flip from hp should have increased your suspicion of ffery according to yesterday. It didn't. I want to know why.

(For the record, I was going to vote ffery out of the gate today but decided I wanted to watch this develop instead without influencing it.)

I have some recent posts to review but I'm too tired.

[Amrun]

Oh god i forgot how soon this day might end.

Katsuki... I noticed a similar thing when I didn't understand why Katsuki wasn't voting for mattP when he "assumed" Matt was the double voter. Katsuki did eventually vote for Matt. This immediately made me suspicious but some later stuff katsuki did made me feel better -- this was all eaten in the crash.

I was waiting to hear Katsuki's answers to the lack of Syryana vote -- but he didn't fold to pressure this time. (If he answered these, I missed it.)

I wanted to see if he'd fold again, and had a pet theory he was scum if he did, but he didn't so now I'm conflicted. I don't oppose the katsuki wagon, because not voting in those situations still makes no sense to me from a town perspective, but, all in all, I'd rather...

VOTE: ffery

The ffery/Syryana interaction reads very much like scum on town -- though which side of it is scum i keep flip flopping on. Matt pushed ffery (though inconsistently) and I've had overall more problems with Her all game, so I would rather pursue ffery.

I also think at least one of the scum is a more experienced player, because that ghost hammer on Antagon really set up suspicion on one of Matt or hp or both. Matt's following death made me think this more, like they realized after hp town flip he wouldn't be lynched. Hp was obviously a frame job but you don't let that sort of wifom live without very good reason. (Actually, I think it was more likely meant to frame Matt, but who knows really.)

Matt's reputation being what is, I'm not too concerned about his list. It should be considered but not used as a bible.

[Amrun]

Ffery, why are you digging for my role?

Kill that plz. Wowza.

[Amrun]

Why would pjo know your role? On day 1, wasn't it?

:/

[Amrun]

I don't know your role so pjo didn't.

But why are you doing this

It makes no sense

As either alignment why would you do this

My brain is full of fuck halp

[Amrun]

Why would that make you read him town?!

[Amrun]

Why DIDN'T you push it yesterday, Syryana?

I have no idea why implosion was lynched, need to read the end of the day. I am assuming it was deadline rush.

[Amrun]

Okay I see. I was thinking ffery was the most likely to go through if not Katsuki. Didn't forsee it veering onto implosion butttttt y'know things happen. I had a fairly strong townread on implosion anyway.

I didn't realize quite how close deadline was last night when I posted -- thought I'd have time to check in this morning.

I feel like I've maybe missed some posts where this wagon started.

[Amrun]

@tammy:

I missed some of your posts from earlier.

My town read on Matt had nothing to do with his self meta, but on my own read of him. I also think what he was saying was TRUE (that it would make him a sitting duck to do that as scum), whereas Tierce was saying that something made her town that DIDN'T actually make her town, which I found disingenuous. (when we talked about it she even agreed but then later went back to saying it made her town). i I got a little paranoid but I decided it WAS just that: paranoia and stuck with my Tierce townread. And quite honestly had Matt survived very long my paranoia would have acted up on him, too, most likely. He's not the type of player most scumteams leave alive for long.

And I didn't expect people to follow me by voting ffery early, and I never suggested that. Don't put words into my mouth. The only person I was concerned about it influencing was a potential scum-Syryana. If his read was genuine, it wouldnt matter who talked about it or voted it. A townsperson with a convicted read will attack his opponent early on in this context. A scum player might do the same if he knows townspeople (like me, but who it was was arbitrary) are willing to vote with him, but might hang back if he's unsure.

It all had to do with his REASONS for suspecting ffery. He was "most" concerned with her superficial read on hp leaves, and when I noted that an hp leaves flip would be relevant to her alignment, he hammered. But then when hp flipped town -- which SHOULD have made him go "aha!" or at least address it -- he backed off and played it cautious. It's instant tonight so he couldn't even have gotten distracted/forgotten.

I don't understand why. I'm still waiting for an explanation.

I feel pretty confident that one of ffery/Syryana is scum and this issue is really at the heart of which of them is. So muting the information I could garner from his behavior is really just shooting myself in the foot. It's a unique situation.

P-edit: well the above is a pretty good summary of what I'm thinking.

I need to think about why tierce might be killed, but she was generally townread and that's probably a good enough reason. Even with a few dissenters, a lynch wasn't getting traction. But still.... Still thinking about this.

[Amrun]

Oh okay yeah I would have had time to check in this morning if no one had hammered. Phew, I thought I couldn't add at all for a minute.

P-edit: Well, I assumed after the whole dash thing. Why do you "think" you're going to vote me? Either do it or do not it. You haven't even expressed suspicion of me besides establishing that I did not, in fact, know your character which obviously isn't a scum tell. Enlighten me.


That does remind me I'm not voting, though. And syryana's explanation is pretty bad. Flip flop ftw.

VOTE: syryana

[Amrun]

Oh. See... Ugh see that explanation makes sense. I didn't realize you thought they were scum together due to it. I mean THAT doesn't make sense to me, but given that was your metric...

I need to think about this.

[Amrun]

Okay yeah going back to where I was yesterday. Her bizarre divorcing from responsibility of her read on me is terrible, and Syryana makes some sort of sense now.

VOTE: ffery

[Amrun]

Implosion was a last minute deadline lynch and nothing but. I looked over his wagon, and only a few people had real conviction on it, soo being one. I didn't expect the deadline lynch to converge onto him; I expected katsuki but hoped for ffery.

I didn't say he was a universal townread. I said I had a townread on him. It wasn't something to write home about, but I wasn't remotely interested in lynching him. I'm not sure why you have a scum read on him is relevant to my read of anyone at all, including implosion.

[Amrun]

I am all for a mass character claim at least. Seriously. I would be ecstatic.

[Amrun]

Oh wait I overlooked something really freakibg obvious.

unvote[\b]

P-edit: I would have me ruined it if I thought he was in serious danger of being lynched, but I didn't think so. He wasn't even on the radar until deadline yesterday.

And I said "fairly" strong which I should maybe clarify. I didn't have him in my "I will never lynch this, supatownz" pile. I just had no scum tells from him and didn't see any reason at all TO lynch him. Those are different things.

[Amrun]

unvote

. Well that didnt work.

And yes, he was in the pool of "people who might be scum," and that didn't at all concern me. That is a far cry from "he is about to die."

My reasons for thinking hp was scum were many and varied, btw. That was one of them, though not the one I was most interested in.

[Amrun]

Also it doesn't matter so i can say it now: I had a let theory that if there was a vig, he could be it. But I didn't want to call attention to that so i stayed quiet. I wasn't really convinced he was town especially since there was no way to know if there WAS a vig, but on the off chance I was right, I wasn't wanting to lynch him.

[Amrun]

So as you can see my town read on him increased between the time hp was alive and the time hp became dead.

[Amrun]

The idea didn't even occur to me because combining the apocalypse role with a vig is even more swingy. Like did not even drop into my mind once.

Huh.

[Amrun]

I take it you didn't read the flavor associated with the flip either?

No lol. Was it relevant? Guessing yes. >.>

[Amrun]

Ah, well, that's logical... I'm doing almost all of this on my phone which makes link clicking unlikely to occur.

[Amrun]

No, I'm not throwing anything out the window.

I still think ffery is scum. I just have unvoted and of course you should be wondering why but I have my reasons.

I have thought about it and decided to

VOTE: syryana

Even though he does have more of an excuse for not pushing ffery yesterday than "I had a headache," they are still pretty weird. (She was coming up with a superficial scum read on her BUDDY? What...?). But more importantly, he was pressured yesterday about it, didnt answer, and then today, said "I have a headache" and only later came up with some semblance of a response.

Piecemeal explanations are always more likely to come from scum.

I still prefer ffery for scum out of the pair but REASONS. If both of this pair is town I'll eat my boot.

[Amrun]

And for the record, if I couldn't lynch either of those two, Id want to lynch OS. His posts today haven't been terrible or anything but he's bed very underwhelming, even when finally posting something that can pass for content. Waiting until this point to provide that has been scummy. Especially because it comes after tierces death and I think he was scared of her, or at least that he would be as scum.

[Amrun]

Of course I'll re-evaluate in light of Syryana's flip, were it to occur. No way do you catch "lil dash" and miss THIS genuinely...

Over soul, I already told you why: I think you were more cautious due to Tierce having tertiary suspicion towards you. HOWEVER, this is not the only reason. In general i just thought you were playing very cautiously and even today, you're not really coming out heavy hitting. Being non-committal and laying low has obvious scum motivation.

[Amrun]

Of course I'll re-evaluate in light of Syryana's flip, were it to occur. No way do you catch "lil dash" and miss THIS genuinely...

Over soul, I already told you why: I think you were more cautious due to Tierce having tertiary suspicion towards you. HOWEVER, this is not the only reason. In general i just thought you were playing very cautiously and even today, you're not really coming out heavy hitting. Being non-committal and laying low has obvious scum motivation.

I don't think I've ever seen someone pass up their primary scum read and put a vote on their secondary except as a compromise, or due to trusting someone else's read to be more accurate. Except on a couple of occasions when the player was scum.

You did neither of those, which leads me to think this is another of those "player is scum" occasions.

It's like you're deliberately not even thinking about it.

You're making me regret trying to be thorough. Ugh.

[Amrun]

Zdenek, how does that make oversoul town?

And explain how Antagon's level of reading has anything to do with sword's alignment?

[Amrun]

I disagree with the first; I think it's perfectly reasonable to copy a town read of your buddy's. but that's a possibility, sure.

What evidence is there that Antagon didn't read the whole thread? I don't recall any off the top of my head.

That's my reason for having sword as leaning town, too, so I'm interested in this. It was never an overly compelling reason to me but it exists. Also his push on implosion seemed pretty genuine to me.

[Amrun]

Oh, I see. Well, even if he was only at page 8 (doubtful), he would probably know where his buddies were voting because vote counts exist and he'd be extra aware of them anyway, I'd imagine. At least I always know what my buddies are doing as scum!

[Amrun]

I will claim, gladly, after you claim your role, Oversoul.

[Amrun]

So, surprise surprise, I'm Tarharlandiur or what the fuck ever how you spell that. We all knew he was in the game, and I am him.

I am not, however, VT.

I use my ability as an intelligence officer or something like that (no formal ability name) to do flavor investigations. Essentially, I choose some sort of source flavor and am returned with the role names (not the roles themselves) that are in the game in that source flavor.

For obvious reasons, I need to claim my results last. This is literally the ONLY utility of my role, so I simply refuse to do it until everyone else has claimed their role names.

I popcorn to Syryana.

[Amrun]

My reasons should be exceedingly obvious overnight. I think the "lil dash thing makes no sense at all and the whole thing is fishy to me, but it's more informed to simply check MLP universe tonight and see if Rainbow Dash comes back. It WON'T confirm her alignment, but it WILL confirm that she wasn't pulling the lil dash stuff out of her ass, which frankly I think is a distinct possibility.

[Amrun]

Talk about it, then.

[Amrun]

I'll explain that in a bit.

[Amrun]

I never knew there was a second scumteam. I THOUGHT there was, but I acknowledged it could be a vig or something else -- and the second most likely option (in my mind) was them being on the SAME scumteam and protecting hpleaves that way. But anyone with a brain keeps all their options open. I noted, in my mind, that if there was a vig, it was probably implosion. But since there was no way to know if there was (and I didn't think there was), that's certainly not something I'm going to tout. After hp leaves died and there was only one kill after that, the likelihood of there being a vig raised exponentially. (That's why I said "on the off chance." To me it was the least likely option, but still in the running.)

Same to you: you said you thought implosion could be a vig but he was still like your numero uno suspect. How does THAT make sense?

[Amrun]

I'm here, are we done claiming?

My boyfriend got here today so I've been... Uh... Occupied. >.>

Let me read real quick.

[Amrun]

Okay, I had a n0 action. Pjo used it on blazblue. Returned only tar.

N1 I was super retarded and used it on Pokemon thinking "there are tons of flying Pokemon" only later to realize the sample vt pm was Pokemon... Not surprising, then, that there are no Pokemon in the game.

N2 I investigated super Mario and returned mallow and Rosario (something like that -- I can check if necessary button phone so it's a pain in the ass and it's now irrelevant).

N3 I ... Forgot. you can see from my posts that I wasn't really on the ball as to the day ending. I was at work, distracted, and thought I'd have time to decide in the morning when I woke up. This was obviously a huge derp on my part.

Tonight I would like to investigate mlp universe but if we come to a consensus on checking a different claim that would be better. Like maybe checking the one with two claims in it is best (though I'm town reading both Zdwnek and Tammy so is rather not).

[Amrun]

I submit a universe. I return the character names of all characters from that universe who happen to be in the game.

[Amrun]

Yeah I mean its not terribly useful lol

[Amrun]

Yeah I picked it because a) flying Pokemon, b) a joke from baltomeet about Pikachu I hoped to make with Matt but he's dead.

I had to see if there was a Pikachu!

I didn't even look at the sample role pm until the next day.

[Amrun]

Rainbow Dash is the only mlp on the game.

Not upset about no lynch if it was possibly mylo.

[Amrun]

Wow that is the first person willing to lynch Syrana with me, I think!!!! Very exciting.

[Amrun]

How do you know it's only two people?

VOTE: sryana

[Amrun]

Oh lol

U right

[Amrun]

Personally, though its obvious who I would rather lynch, it's an easy choice between Latsuki and over soul to me (Oversoul).

Also FYI I am v/la this whole week but I have my phone. I will read/respond to things but cases etc probably not happening.

[Amrun]

How would asking for suggestions have led me to pick you, fiery? I only got one suggestion and I ignored it because it was from a scum read and 1 suggestion does not a consensus make.

Just a reminder that I'm v/la all week long -- still reading periodically, still dropping by on my phone especially in light of this game's deadlines, but my attention is sparse and scattered.

[Amrun]

VOTE: oversoul

I'm equally happy with an Oversoul lynch and Sryana isn't getting traction.

[Amrun]

Well that sucks. I did Touhou project and returned that thing Katsuki claimed. Aya smarmybastard or whatever.

I think, given who is left, it's probably Syryana and soo, but I'm much more confident about Syryana.

Fos: Syryana

P-edit: that's creepy as hell katsuki

[Amrun]

Because I'm v/la and only have. 5 minutes at a time? I've been over this like a million times.

And also I had just started trying to post in games today, like, a half an hour ago or something. I've been in and out, doing work shit. I don't know why v/la is such a difficult concept. I'm starting to get frustrated by that.

[Amrun]

Oh I did look at the flip. I looked at it at like ass thirty in the morning and my phone was about to die and my dad was yelling at me and I couldn't muster the energy to post. And?

[Amrun]

Why not comfortable with voting syr?

[Amrun]

I wish I could put together a case. it's just too much to do from my phone while at work.

I have given reasons, though! I'll try to recap them soon when (if) I get the time. I'm sooo busy though

[Amrun]

Ffery, does it really make sense to you in the difference of how he pursued you before and after the hp leaves flip?

That's the crux of my scum read on Syryana. His reasoning there just reeks of scum trying to cover up inconsistent behavior by pretending it is consistent.

P-edit: I typed this post right before I got slammed with work and like 5 other posts happened I don't have time to read them at all

[Amrun]

I was actually going to change my investigation to you yesterday, Syryana, but kept waffling and then I ran out of time. I still think Katsuki was a good place to put it because I saw Katsuki as the most likely lynch today. I think katsuki's town. Therefore, I think lynching Katsuki will be VERY BAD. Confirming his role (as happened) doesn't mean all that much anyway.

The rest of the time, I was using my investigations things I deemed more important, as my suspicion of you didn't happen until later on. But ignoring the fact that I investigated ffery to try and sort out the situation between you/fferyz. Ignoring that key piece of information is pretty scummy.

And you're acting like it's a cop investigate. It's NOT. It confirms whether or not people are telling the truth about the flavor names. Anyone could easily be telling the truth but still scum. The only utility off my role is attempting to catch someone in a lie, but with such a game, there's nothing that says they have to lie. Painting it as a guilty/innocent doesn't make any sense. It's an extra assurance that someone gave the correct role name and nothing else.

VOTE: Syryana

[Amrun]

No, I didn't compromise on Oversoul. Even in my vote post, I said I'd be just as happy to vote there! I thought Oversoul was scum.

And I DON'T have a scum read on Katsuki, but I DID early on in the game.

You're ignoring several key things.

A) n3 I didn't not investigate on PURPOSE. It was an accident because instant night.

B) I didn't know your flavor then so I couldn't have investigated you anyway!

C) When I investigated ffery, my scum read on her was much stronger than my scum read on you.

Trying to paint that as scummy is soooo bad. Like, let's just ignore how my role works, shall we?

Fucking lol.

[Amrun]

And if I wanted to leave people alive to vote you, Syryana, why do you think Zdenek died?

He was my biggest ally to making you dead. I was hoping to swing him that way yesterday in fact and it was a close call.

Is it a coincidence that he's dead today? Fucking no, it is not.

[Amrun]

Sure but the idea that I, as scum, kept katsuki (you) alive just to lynch Syryana is utterly nonsensical.

[Amrun]

Syryana, I didn't investigate Katsuki because I had. Scum read on him. I investigated him because I had a TOWN read on him.

Still, during the tiger attack, I attacked Katsuki as scum. It didn't last terribly long.

Soo, I DON'T think flavor names clear anyone but people are treating it that way and I thought it would be best to throw my weight into protecting Katsuki. To be honest, I expected a large push on Katsuki today. Not sure if its me that waylaid it but either way I am pleased. If town can't be prevented from lynching a town read, I don't even have a chance to lynch my scum read.

[Amrun]

As much as Syryana is scum, he's right. No lynch besides me or him happens today, period.

[Amrun]

Why the fuck can't you see voting him

Why are you considering voting outside of confscum wtf

My brain hurts

[Amrun]

Sword of omens is buddying the fuck out of him. Likely him.

However, there's an outside possibility of it being Katsuki.

It's definitely not you.

[Amrun]

I suspected you far before you ever suspected me, Syryana. Saying that its omgus is the worst thing I've ever seen.

[Amrun]

Also omg I can't believe you just slipped saying the game is almost overZ. Because once you mislynch me you win. Wow.

[Amrun]

A) no. You're confirmed scum because neither of us is dead yet, not because "you voted me."

B) omgus has never actually been a scum tell.

C) not committing omgus anyway.

[Amrun]

Why are you posting here when you flaked, pjo?

But yeah that was pretty amusing, ffery.

Thanks for the game, Vi!

We lucked the fuck out with enomis day 1.

We were scared of a doctor, the game being as it was, and thought enomis was unlikely to ever be lynched but also unlikely to be protected.

I crossed my fingers that he was a pr but HOT DANG!

[Amrun]

Oh, and Vi, I understood the utility of the role, but never got the opportunity to use it that way.

[Amrun]

Do not mention that travesty

Also weren't you actually mafia in that game?

[Amrun]

Sword, I had a great time with you. Glad we pulled it out in the end. <3

[Amrun]

Looool

[Amrun]

Sorry, os.

[Amrun]

I totally agree with that, actually, Tierce. It's not a coincidence that I switched focus to Syryana after that!