Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Zdenek]

Vote: enomis

Because of the alphabet.

Since there's a role that we need to protect, I think that we should probably be somewhat restrictive in claiming: VT's should not claim, PR's can claim depending on their role and the game state, but should consider not claiming. Of course, no hammering until someone has the opportunity to claim/refuse to claim.

Also, spamming the thread should be strongly avoided, since when the days get down to 72 hours, we're going to need to be able to read the thread in that time.

[Zdenek]

Battery-Powered Deadlines. Deadlines in this game (outside Apocalypse) are measured via a meter that starts at 100% and counts down each real-time day by a varying amount. The amount is based on true activity.

^Zdenek your plan is a double-edged sword

People can post and say game relevant things without spamming the thread. There's also the comment about "true activity;" I don't know exactly how to take it, but presumably it means that we couldn't spam the thread in order to prolong deadlines.

[Zdenek]

People can post and say game relevant things without spamming the thread. There's also the comment about "true activity;" I don't know exactly how to take it, but presumably it means that we couldn't spam the thread in order to prolong deadlines.

So discourage spam but don't discourage post content in general?

Of course.

[Zdenek]

I'm a bit wary about claiming universes, since it could make scum's job easier.

[Zdenek]

mrbungle, where, what games do you and pjo know each other from?

fiery, pjo, tell me about pjo's scum game, or at least point me to the ones that you are talking about.


Whimsy's attempt to end RVS at this moment looks out of place to me.

It also looks like he's copying Oversoul's town read on Matt, and making up a false reason for it.

So hey, I won't be random voting after this.

Unvote
Vote Whimsical Eggplant

Syryana, what do you think of Whimsy? Why are you voting ffrey? Your post makes it seem like you should be more suspicious of Tammy.

[Zdenek]

I haven't seen his scum game.

So why do you think that he gambits as either alignment?

[Zdenek]

I haven't seen his scum game.

So why do you think that he gambits as either alignment?

I was asking mrbungles because they've played together elsewhere.

But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment.

I see.

I just skimmed his ISO in the game that you linked. Could you point out how he tripped up scum?

[Zdenek]

ffery, needs to explain how pjo tripped up scum in the game she lynched because it looks like she buddying with him for an illegitimate reason at the moment.

I'd like it if mrbungle told me what game he knows pjo from.

Whimsy is actually scum, so people should vote her.

[Zdenek]

Why do you think that scum would think that releasing flavor is a bad idea?

[Zdenek]

Hmm?

Enomis is saying that he thinks that scum-whimsical eggplant got the idea that MattP thinks that releasing information is a bad idea fom their scum qt. He also thinks that it's more like that happened than Whimsy just making it up. So I'm asking him why he thinks this is a view scum would hold.

[Zdenek]

Pedit: Zdenek. Why would scum want to push something obviously scum? That would be the height of dumbfuckery; "HAY GAIZ THERE'S A ROLE OUT THERE THAT DOES GOOD THINGS FOR SCUM LET'S ALL OUT OUR FLAVOR INFO SO IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR THE SCUM TO FIND IT" So I ask you; why would scum not think releasing flavor information is a bad idea?

I see any comment in the scum-qt about this going something like: "town will be on the look-out for people trying to fish for people's flavour, so we should be careful not to do things that could appear to be flavour fishing," and not like "I think its a bad idea for us to flavour claim." The difference in the conversations makes me think that it's a mistake that scum is unlikely to make, and that it's more likely that Whimsy just invented the reason for his MattP town-rea with the scum-motivation being to buddy MattP directly, and indirect buddy Oversoul by agreeing with him on a read.

It's not impossible for MattP and Whimsy to be buddies, but my feeling is that at that moment, at the start of the game and under no pressure, that scum is not likely to give a false reason for read a buddy - it's something they are usually more careful about.

It featured the scum pushing a mass claim on day 1 and getting away with it. Seeing that kind of action again in another theme game, and nothing from Pjovek's iso to indicate to me that he's town, I'm more than fine to say DIESCUMDIE as of this 5 minutes.

Well, he's pushing for us to claim a small part of our flavour, which is potentially anti-town, but it's definitely not him pushing for mass-claim, so you're blowing this out of proportion.

[Zdenek]

I think Zach's points against pjo are legit. I also believe that scum will push anti-town plans, and that's not a meta-thing, just a scummy thing. On the other hand, I'd expect scum-pjo to have pushed it with more of a singular focus, rather than also making a made up reads list at the same time. It's more gambitty things than I'd expect from scum at one time. I should point out that I don't like pjo's overtly "logical" post discrediting the reasons behind the Whimsical Eggplant votes - it's just too incorrect.

mrbungle made a couple posts when there were things to talk about - he vote ffrey for no apparent reason, called the (I think) conversation between Tammy and Syry a circle jerk, and then unvoted ffrey when she said that lynching her would be dumb. - his failure to comment on things is scummy.

[Zdenek]

Tierce

, how do this games mechanics affect your read on Whimsy and the wagon on her?

pjo, why'd you think to vote Sword of Omens when you did?

About Ffery: she said "I assume pjo gambits no matter what alignment he is." When I asked her about it, she replied with "I was asking mrbungles because they've played together elsewhere." There was no question mark in her original post - this has been bothering me for a while, but I'm worried that it's just me being pedantic. I agree with Matt that this comment: "But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment" looks baseless, since she was (apparently) asking mrbungles about pjo's scum play. It could simply just be that he's easy to spot as scum.

It obvious that ffrey was buddying with pjo, and I don't understand her prob-town read on mrbungles.

So there are somethings that I don't like here. I still don't think that she's as bad as Whimsical Eggplant or mrbungles.

[Zdenek]

Because sword was a great day1 lynch (and still is)

In the meantime he has dodged replacement forcing with promises of more lurking, so yeah. A good lynch indeed.


Also should I share my super-secret way of reading ffery as town?
It'll cost you though.

Where did sword promise to do more lurking?
Do you think that he's a great lynch because he hadn't posted or is there something else?

Of course you should share.

[Zdenek]

Because sword was a great day1 lynch (and still is)

In the meantime he has dodged replacement forcing with promises of more lurking, so yeah. A good lynch indeed.


Also should I share my super-secret way of reading ffery as town?
It'll cost you though.

Where did sword promise to do more lurking?

When he posted to let us know he'd actually play the game later.

It looks like the opposite of promising to do more lurking.

Do you think that policy lynching in this game is appropriate? Would you be willing to risk outing the apocalypse role base on a policy?

[Zdenek]

No, it is "I am lurking, but I'll read the thread eventually and maybe one day I'll even post"

hmmm?

hey all!!!
back from V/LA and glad to see this one up and running...
gonna read up this morning and get to posting today...9 pages shouldn't be too bad....

If you don't lynch people because they could be apocalypse dude, you'll never get anywhere. Literally the same thing can be said of any wagon ever and it has no value at all.
Why are you trying to instill fear and paranoia about this particular wagon, with a meaningless non-argument like that?

Policy lynches are already questionable because they don't take into account a persons alignment, couple that with the fact that there's a role that we should avoid lynching, and I'm pretty sure that policy lynching is a bad idea.

I'm not trying to instill fear or paranoida in the Sword wagon. I think that your reasons for pushing it are false, since he promised to post today and we are just back from a weekend.

I would expect that someone who was going to be unable to post either for more than a weekend or regularly over the weekend would replace out.

[Zdenek]

There is a difference between running someone up/lynching them because you think they are scum, and running someone up/lynching them based on a policy. Everyone aside from Sword who you mentioned has been voted, I think, because people thought they were scum. I have no problems with that at all. I have a problem with policy lynching in this game in general, and more with the one that you are pushing, since I think you are misinterpreting Sword of Omens post.

[Zdenek]

Vote: pjovek

[Zdenek]

Where did appeal to emotion?

[Zdenek]

That's not an answer. Quote it.

[Zdenek]

Why pjovek is scum:

1. Anti-town proposal of the mass universe claim.

2. Vote on Sword of Omens looks more like trying to look like he's doing something than actually doing something.

3. He made up a false reason to be suspicious of Sword - that Sword promised to continue lurking. When I called him out on it he kept pushing it.

4. When I questioned him about what he thought of policy lynching in this game rather than just answering he attempts to cast suspicion on to me for trying to instill fear and paranoia about the wagon. Now he's asking me why I chose to appeal to emotion, which never happened, and he's refusing to point out what he's talking about, and deciding to accuse me of not reading.

[Zdenek]

Why pjovek is scum:

1. Anti-town proposal of the mass universe claim.

2. Vote on Sword of Omens looks more like trying to look like he's doing something than actually doing something.

3. He made up a false reason to be suspicious of Sword - that Sword promised to continue lurking. When I called him out on it he kept pushing it.

4. When I questioned him about what he thought of policy lynching in this game rather than just answering he attempts to cast suspicion on to me for trying to instill fear and paranoia about the wagon. Now he's asking me why I chose to appeal to emotion, which never happened, and he's refusing to point out what he's talking about, and deciding to accuse me of not reading.

I thought your theory is that I am scum and buddying pjovik up.

It's possible that you are scum doing that, but it's also possible that you liked his play in that past game, so I don't know, and it's not such a big deal.

Pjo misrepresenting SoO's post and inventing reasons to attack me is much worse.

[Zdenek]

But please point me to where you made a rational and logical argument instead of appealing to the inherent fear of lynching the apocalypse dude.

You may quote it.

I asked you some questions to try figuring out what you were thinking, you could have just answered, but you decided to accuse me of fear mongering and AtE.

Oh please, keep misrepresenting like all my posts while pushing me for misrepresenting posts.

What have I misreped?

[Zdenek]

Nice to see that you can't point to a single example and everything you say is bullshit.

Eat rope.

[Zdenek]

Sword_of_Omens, how would you say you tend to read Tierce? (as town, as scum or are your reads just wrong) Can you point me to some games that you were in together.

Pjovek votes are bad.

I get it if you have a gut-town read on him, but he's mostly been pushing BS so far.

Tierce are you only voting ffery for ignoring your initial vote on her?

[Zdenek]

Tierce are you only voting ffery for ignoring your initial vote on her?

No, that would be boring.

Indeed. So why then?

[Zdenek]

Tierce, before this game started, I decided that if I was scum, I'd basically just try to aggravate you for shits and giggles, and hopefully make the thread unreadable, but I drew town, and I actually want to avoid it as best ast I can. The fact that I am seeing this behaviour in is disturbing, of course it might just be that you can't help it. Now, I ISO'd you before asking the question, and I actually want you to answer.

Enomis, no, I don't think that he is scum for pushing policy lynches. I think he's scum for the reasons in my 238.

[Zdenek]

Oh, and if Whimsical is replaced, we should speed lynch that slot. He signed up for another game, so it's not as though he's avoiding posting because of a general lack of time.

[Zdenek]

Oh, and if Whimsical is replaced, we should speed lynch that slot. He signed up for another game, so it's not as though he's avoiding posting because of a general lack of time.

He did not. He asked for (dead) QT access. That's far different. Don't you dare to speedlynch that slot.

And I know you're Town. But I want you (and others) to look for the answer yourself. I want to see your thought process.

I see I misread /qt for /in. I'd still lynch that slot.

As for why I think you're voting ffrey, there are two reasons that I can think of. One of them is secret, and the other is his vote on W. Egg. and the fact that he got the L-? count wrong when he made it.

[Zdenek]

Ha ha. I like to think that I'm obviously town, but there is no way that if you'd just read those pages you would be buddying me so shamelessly.

I think you're reading way too much into Pjovek's posts related to his list.

Zach was not sheeping me in 26 (or 27?). How do you think that he was?

So yeah, I think Antigon is scum, I think he read more than his post suggests. I think he's trying to get me off is back by buddying me. His comment about Zach sheeping me gives it away.

Unvote

My vote would be on Antigon, but I want to hear some other opinions.

[Zdenek]

Tammy, what are you doing?

[Zdenek]

Just finished dinner and debating whether I should try to get some work done.

What do you think of W. Egg/Antagon?

[Zdenek]

Sweet fucking christ.

I think Matt's claim was a ridiculous play, and the fact that he did it frustrates me, but I see very little scum motivation in his decision to do it, unless he's scum with Antagon (but then we should still be lynching Antagon first). I generally dislike Matt's push on Ffreyllt. I don't really see what's scummy about Ffreyllt - irrational sure - so his vote there is confusing. Regardless, having claimed VT on Day 1 in a theme game, Matt has potentially opened himself up to all sorts of ways of being caught, and so I don't think he's a good lynch today.

Ugh, as I read Matt gets worse - he's mental note not to play with Tierce again post rubs me wrong way, so did his Tammy is an alcoholic post - but I don't care all that much, and still want to lynch Antagon.

It's pretty WIFOMy but I think scum ffreyllt would be voting Matt right about now independently of Matt being her buddy.

Syryana

when have you seen Tierce as town?

[Zdenek]

So never then?

[Zdenek]

Never ever stop being so obvtown Tierce <3

Because it makes this comment concerning.

[Zdenek]

So why do you think that Syryana is town?

[Zdenek]

Antigon is only at 4. This will not stand:

Vote Antigon

Can the next 2 posters vote him to get him to L-1, and force a claim? That would be best.

[Zdenek]

Hey remember War Is Hell. Sheep me. It will be easier, and we'll lynch scum.

[Zdenek]

Hey.
Antagon's role is over powered like 2 dox.
Lynch now plox.

The only thing that gives me pause
is Tierce is setting up lynches based on an Antigon town filp.

But eh, that's best investigated after an antigon flip. Cause she's like fucking addicted to defending scum.

So there's that.

Seriously, if you want to pussy out of an Antigon lynch based on his claim, we could just force him to claim his target everyday, and then if he's ever bottoms up we can just lynch his target, which is lulzy, or he and his target are making it to end game, and unless we are fucking re re that's that's a town win too, so yeah, he's scum.

[Zdenek]

ffrey, which three players would you kill if you had a choice?

[Zdenek]

That doesn't make it more likely to be a fakeclaim. The fact that the role blatently looks WAY out there is what's actually giving me pause. I'd have been more suspicious if the role looked more fitting/convenient.

and Zdenek--if it is a Vi-provided fakeclaim, it's going to make sense in the setup, so stop with the "omg overpowered kill it kill it" cries

I assume that he is claiming his real role. I don't know what you mean by "would make sense in the setup" obviously you can't mean: "would not cause players to think that the game is unbalanced if you claim it."

I have some issues with lynching such a strong role on day one, but I'd be a lot more diplomatic if he did anything that made me think he was town, and the fact that he suggested having other actions could be a scumslip.

I'll try to get into this a bit more today. I'm also interested to hear what Amrun has to say.

[Zdenek]

I will say that I do recall Abarat had a similar role that self -commuted themselves and a target for the night, so it could be possible…

Did scum have a way to counter it?

[Zdenek]

Does your ability have a name and what will you flip?

[Zdenek]

I think Syryana would be a pretty solid lynch.

His early game was really chaotic. He starts off attacking Tammy, pjo and ffreyllt. I think his let's fight Tammy-o post is over-the-top, and his read on Tammy flips between 66 and 77 for essentially no reason. He votes ffreyllt as he agrees with MattP that ffreyllt was lying, but it's not clear that ffreyllt was lying or that Syryana actually thought that ffreyllt was lying.

He pushes Eggplant, Matt, fery, Pjo as scum, then he turns around and votes Zach because of how Zach was pushing pjo. Since he had pjo as a scum read, he should have understood what Zach was getting at.

ffreyllt says that she thinks that pjo is town, and Syryana questions her read - but Syryana thought that ffrey was scum and his scum read Zach was voting pjo, so the fact that he asked this at that moment feels wrong. I'd feel better if he passed some sort of judgement about what was happening.

He then writes a long paragraph explaining his votes: He was on the Whimsy wagon because of the scumslip (personally I don't think that it's reasonable to call it a scum-slip, so the fact that he does reads badly to be, but that's probably neither here nor there). In the rest of the post, I think he over justifies his Zach vote - accuses him of not scum-hunting, uses burden of proficiency, and tops it off by saying that he is sheeping Tierce.

[Zdenek]

So Antigon has posted 7 times since I asked him how he would flip and if his ability has a name. He's not responded. So he's moved into the if-we-don't-lynch-him-we're-idiots zone.

There's a decent chance of Tierce being scum with him. She didn't think that the slot was scum, defended it aggressively, and seemed to prefer the lynches of both MattP and ffreyllt when she requested a claim from the slot. So it reads like "hey, buddy with a good claim that could save you, I want to make sure that you get a chance to make it and I want to make sure that I get a chance to voice suspicion of you."

[Zdenek]

[hp] would be my secod or third favourite lynch today, so that's a vote I'm okay with.
Still pretty sure Antagon is scum.

[Zdenek]

I'm trying to figure out if i want to vote antagon or not. I lean that he's town from reading him. I don't see anything that makes me think scum.

I'm certainly not voting matt. I don't have a strong opinion on ffery either but i lean town. Really, i'm just not particularly happy with the direction of this day.

Is Zach your only scum read?

[Zdenek]

Hw did you come by your town reads on Amrun/pjo, Tierce and Syryana?

[Zdenek]

Actually, I just remembered that Amrun is almost town for sure, so don't bother explaining that one.

[Zdenek]

when I asked for a claim, Antagon was my favorite lynch.

What happened since to make you think he's town?

Tammy, I think if pjovek was scum and was playing like that he would have been too invested in the game to vanish like that.

[Zdenek]

We could lynch hp [leaves], since Antagon is probably bussing him.

[Zdenek]

when I asked for a claim, Antagon was my favorite lynch.

What happened since to make you think he's town?

Tammy, I think if pjovek was scum and was playing like that he would have been too invested in the game to vanish like that.

The claim seems legitimate and my lightbulb moment has fizzled out without much ado.

I'm not sure what either of things things has to do with his alignment.

[Zdenek]

The claim obviously has something to do with his alignment. He's essentially an Alien, and Aliens aren't much use to scum.

That is crazy talk.
Roleblocking is of no use to scum?
Being investigation immune and bulletproof (which Antagon is when he acts) is of no use to scum?

[Zdenek]

I feel like Tierce got busted changing her read on Antagon for a bad reason and is floundering to try to justify it.

[Zdenek]

Anyone mind explaining to me whats the alien thingy?

Usually, I think, it role blocks your target and makes it untargetable to any other actions.

post_id=5043873 time=1371572216 user_id=10128 post_num=774]

We could lynch hp [leaves], since Antagon is probably bussing him.

Hey I think someone is scum, let"s lynch someone else instead

My vote is on antagon. I want him lynched, but I can understand people's qualms about lnching a PR.

post_id=5043903 time=1371572934 user_id=10128 post_num=778]I hate you all for forcing me to use this shitty internet wihch I can use on a shitty public computer which has an Italian keyboard with symbols all over the wrong places

Considering the effort you've put it, I have a hard time seeing this level of resentment as legitimate.

That's because I'm not done yet.

Antagon:

Explain this comment?

Does what you wrote here match your experience with SyrScum?

My points there have nothing to do with meta. Ive seen you in one game where you replaced in, so I'm not even sure that the comparison is justified. Why are you bringing meta up?

Burden of proficiency is not what I was accusing Zach of.

What do you call it when you expect more of a player because of their scummies?

Sheeping Tierce wins games, at least when Tierce is town.

Where are you getting this from?

Zdenek, that post reeked. Lots of IIoA, complete disregard for my scum meta.

I believe that I gave the information and then gave my analysis. If you want to ignore the analysis then there's not much I can say. I have never seen you as town, so I have no idea why you expect me to consider your meta. Why is this the first time you've criticized someone for not considering another person's meta?

Does this mean an Antigon townflip would disintegrate your Tierce scumread?

At that moment, perhaps, now no. I think if she was bussing she would have stayed on the lynch. Now, I'm concerned that her read there changed for a terrible reason and she is scum trying to stay off a town-lynch for town-cred.

Two wagons on scum doesn't feel right to me for some reason.

Why, because that was the situation in Voided's nightless game?

[Zdenek]

hmmmm

Vote: hp [leaves]

Basically, Antagon's scum read on mr. bungle makes no sense in the context of his (no) read on Oversoul - he should have been reading bungles as null to, but he wasn't, he also certainly wasn't trying to get [hp]/bungles lynched. It was a shitty distancing attempt.

[Zdenek]

Where was I:

fferyllt - I have gut town read on this slot, and I don't think she's aligned with Whimsy/Antagon because of the speed of her unvote of Antagon at Tierce's request, and because she was calling hp [leaves] town and not voting Antagon at the end of the day yesterday (when she easily could have justified making the vote to try to get town-cred on his flip. Yes, it's possible that she's scum who was hoping that hp was going to be lynched yesterday, but I don't think that is something worth investigating today. Additionally, I think that this interaction makes it really unlikely that she is scum with both hp and Antagon.

implosion - gut town read, but nothing concrete.

Katsuki - I liked his early pressure on Whimsy yesterday.

MattP - I don't see the scum motivation in his claim yesterday, so I don't think he's a good lynch today.

hp [leaves] - scum
-Mr. Bungle didn't comment on Whimsy.
- [leave]'s comment "I wonder if matt will change her claim when she gets near to lynch" really doesn't sit well with me. It's an expression that he is suspicious of Matt, but there is no vote, and he's not made it clear that he's read anything at that moment. Later he says that Matt is a policy lynch for him, which is a strange change of mindset.
- his anger at the end of the day yesterday seems contrived based on his activity level in the game.

Oversoul - I think Whimsy was mimicking his MattP town read, which suggests that he is town.

Amrun - probably town.

sword_of_omens - probably town because of Antagon trying to hop on the Pjo wagon after him.

Syryana - possibly scum.
- I don't think that his town read on Tammy based on their "dance" makes any sense.
- Same for his town read on Tierce.
- Syryana really over-justified his unvote of Whimsy.
- His defense against what I had to say about him yesterday, and saying that I didn't consider his meta was madness, since I have only played with him once when he replaced into a scum slot.

Tammy - gut town read.

Tierce - I don't think Antagon aligned, but I also don't think she's town.

[Zdenek]

I'm not really sure what universe you people are living in. Antagon flipped town, not scum.

Is this fake?

[Zdenek]

The best points against ffrey are that she failed to comment on Whimsy and had an unjustified town read on mrbungle. I still think hp [leaves] is a better lynch.

SoO could be scum, but I think he's not as likely scum as hp, and if hp is scum, then SoO looks alright.

[Zdenek]

The idea that Whimsy screwed up and accidentally put Matt's name in place of someone else's because they are buddies holds a little water, but I think that it is more likely that he copied Oversoul's read on Matt and justified it with a fake reason.

[Zdenek]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.
Town wouldn't want to lynch that role. Town or scum could want to lynch someone who soft-claimed that role.

I see it as hp pushing the lynch of a buddy for whatever reason he can come up with regardless of whether it makes logical sense.

This is to MattP's question.

[Zdenek]

Oh and my theory is that there is an SK/secret voter, but that's neither here nor there.

[Zdenek]

Oh, and that it's Tierce, but again for today, that's neither here nor there.

[Zdenek]

You mean an sk that is also a secret voter???

I could dig that, though it would be quite strange.

p-edit: Wait, really?

But Tierce thought Antagon was town, right?

Why would tierce-sk-ghostvoter do that?

Yes, SK that is also a secret voter.
Yes, really.
Yes, she did.
To get cred off his town-flip, in case he flipped town.

[Zdenek]

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens
12) Tierce

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

hmmmm, this is not really how I approach mafia, I mean everyone *could* be scum. What I really want is an [hp] flip because I expect that he'll flip scum, and regardless of what he flips his flip should make it possible to do wagon analysis based on yesterday's wagons - for that it makes a big difference what he flips.

[Zdenek]

Why would you think calling someone town who is, in fact, town would give her cred?

Having accurate reads/not being on town lynches is a positive thing if you want to get people to listen to you/not lynch you.

[Zdenek]

So you think that I, as SK, one of the most vulnerable roles in the game (don't I know it, look how I handled kills in New Age Mafia II--i.e. didn't perform them once I hit the same targets as the scum TWICE, thus letting me pass unknown for the rest of the game), would have absolutely blundered on my read on Antagon and flipped back and forth on it like there's no tomorrow.

*blundered* - it's not as though I am suggesting that you knew his alignment. Getting it wrong is of course possible.

post_id=5055925 time=1372151548 user_id=10128 post_num=995]townies should stop pussying out and put their votes somewhere. anyone who hasn't casted a vote today is a pretty good policy lynch

There should have been a claim in this post.

[Zdenek]

=====[]
[]=====

[Zdenek]

Unless MattP's list had 0 scum on it, which I seriously doubt, MattP was killed because there's scum on it:

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens
WOOOOSSSHHHHHH

Minus [leaves] of course, I'd be hard pressed to lynch outside of this today. I'll reread tonight to narrow it down.

[Zdenek]

I'm on a picnic and would appreciate if nothing stupid was done before I have access to a computer again.

Town.

So ffrey is likely town. This is Tierce saying that she doesn't want anyone to hammer Antagon while she's away, and I don't see a scum buddy reacting to this by calling Tierce town.

[Zdenek]

So who should we lynch today?

[Zdenek]

SoO or implosion is where I am leaning. I haven't finished my ISOs.

What are your thoughts about the Tierce/Amrun stuff?

I haven't read it yet.

So who should we lynch today?

I dunno, you tell us.

I'm working on it.

[Zdenek]

Rereading around that Antagon flip, I am strongly reading Tierce as scum:
- she defends the slot heavily.
- she asks Antagon to claim.
- I call her out on this, and suggest that she's probably a buddy.
- She says that at that moment Antagon was her favourite lynch.
- Then she hops back to Antagon town. For the garbage reason that his claim seemed legitimate.

I no longer think that this is an unlikely interaction for her to have with scum, since the flip-flop back to town at the end could have been something that I want to give a cute name name to - let's say reverse distancing.

[Zdenek]

Come now you can't be serious.

I remember you knowing full well what antagon flipped before the board crashes.

How does this comment not come with a Syryana vote?

[Zdenek]

Mind as well hammer and get to discussing other stuff tonight.

This looks like an attempt to fake a town-tell - to like he didn't have knowledge about the no night time before it happened.

[Zdenek]

What are your thoughts about the Tierce/Amrun stuff?

I think it is alignment neutral.

I'm starting here:

Vote: Katsuki

[Zdenek]

Tierce if there is such a big gap in your meta, why are you not instantly lynched when you are scum?
Because the fact that you aren't makes your argument here hollow.

[Zdenek]

What triangle is this?

It seems like you're suggesting that I want to push all 3 of you as scum, which isn't the case at all.

You missed your cue to say what you were thinking.

[Zdenek]

Haven't decided what to think on the Katsuki wagon yet.

What's your read on Katsuki?

[Zdenek]

I really wish that I had something close to a reasonable read on either SoO or Implosion.

[Zdenek]

Probably it doesn't.

Since MattP's flip, there was basically no way scum was getting lynched yesterday, so it's not like if she's scum she had a reason make up bs to get a lynch through that she needed or wanted.

[Zdenek]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

[Zdenek]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

That's a fact not in evidence.

We have three days to get a lynch through, and he's not working on one that he should want, so yes, it is.

[Zdenek]

zdenek is there more reasoning/case behind your vote?

Process of elimination.

I think his failure to vote Syryana is quite damning - if I'd caught someone who I thought was blatantly changing their opinion of an event to fake a town tell, I'd vote them forever because there is basically nothing scummier.

When it comes to Tierce, while it's possible that she is scum, my reasons for thinking that she is scum actually do point in both directions because her changes of stance on Egg/Antagon were so awkward that it's hard to see them as being made by a buddy, so I'm putting that on the back burner.

I also think that people (like SoO and Implosion) who's posts make it impossible to get a read on them have a higher chance of flipping scum than people who's interactions with scum point to them being buddies (the latter thing scum can try to avoid, but the former is beneficial for them), so I'd vote there before voting for Tierce - with a strong lean towards voting for Implosion over SoO.

[Zdenek]

How many scum do people think are in the game?

If three remain, we should no lynch.

[Zdenek]

Syry, why did you sheep Tammy over Tierce yesterday?

[Zdenek]

So at the time you weren't thinking anything?

To Syryana.

[Zdenek]

That's pretty much my thinking.

Syr, earlier you said that sleeping Tierce wins games, yesterday you sheeped Tammy over Tierce. I'm trying to figure out what you were thinking at the time.

[Zdenek]

Pretty much my thinking is on the number of scum. I'd have guessed 4 except for the day shortening mechanic.

[Zdenek]

Syry, why did you sheep Tammy over Tierce yesterday?

I've been wrestling with that question myself.

Tierce was being weird this game and her reads haven't been so hot. I trusted Tammy over Tierce when sheeping last night for that reason.

This looks like bs to me.

[Zdenek]

What does the middle quote have anything to do with it?

Literally everything.

[Zdenek]

Oh wait I see. You weren't responding to that.

[Zdenek]

Oversoul is as town as can be because of Egg copying his town read on MattP.
If Pjo was trolling like that as scum, I think he'd have stayed in to see it through.
I'm still reading fferyllt as town, but not for anything solid, she's just playing like town.
Tammy, about the same.

I would not vote these 4 today.

I used to think that SoO was probably town because of Antagon jumping on Pjo with him when he replaced in, but now I'm not so sure because I don't know how much Antagon actually read, but it was certainly more than he tried to suggest.

So that leaves:
Katsuki
Syryana

Vote: Katsuki

[Zdenek]

Scum are more likely to copy a townie's town read on someone than than a scum buddy's. I think Egg saw Oversoul's town read on Matt and copied it - it let's him buddy with two people fairly innocuously.

If Antagon had read the whole thread, then he would have known that SoO voted for Pjovek. Since it is somewhat unlikely for scum to pile on to the same person, this makes them less likely to be aligned. Of course, if he hadn't read the thread, this doesn't apply.

[Zdenek]

Kats, how many scum do you think are left?

[Zdenek]

Amrun

People on the Hp wagon, could you please clarify your stand?
Why do you want to lynch Hp:
1) Because you think he is scum
2) Because you don't want antagon to be lynched today

Which is a bigger factor to you.

Because of the bungle flip-flopping.
Because I don't want to be lynched.
Because lynching the un-CC'd PR is always a bad idea.

That's because I'm not done yet.

Antagon:

Explain this comment?

Because I'm actually only on about Page 8 because I physically couldn't get to a computer before then.

Here he says he's at pg. 8.
I thought it was a lie at the time, but I have no clue what he actually was aware of.

[Zdenek]

If we are going to do it, we should get the show on the road. I'm fine with going first, but if I had my way Katsuki or Syryana would. If there are no objections to mass claiming or to me going first I'll claim in half an hour or so. I also don't have a problem with someone else going first. I'll assume that we'll do it popcorn style.

[Zdenek]

Fine with me.

[Zdenek]

- I am Fia (from Riviera: The Promised Land), VT.

SoO next.

[Zdenek]

Tammy, you should consider claiming if you are still here.

[Zdenek]

Indeed, Fia is here.

[Zdenek]

Amrun needs to get in here.

[Zdenek]

Amrun has posted on site this evening and her failure to post in her really bothers me considering the lack of time.

[Zdenek]

Katsuki – I had a town read on Kats mainly based on the MattP kill..but that theory went all to hell when hp flipped town…so I’ll have to reread..

This is in the wrong order.

[Zdenek]

Tammy, in your role pm does it say that we travelled here together or anything else about our relationship?

[Zdenek]

Ok. Mine says (roughly) that I came here alone, but that it would have been better if I'd come with someone.

[Zdenek]

I was super retarded and used it on Pokemon thinking "there are tons of flying Pokemon" only later to realize the sample vt pm was Pokemon... Not surprising, then, that there are no Pokemon in the game.

Your randomly picked Pokemon without realizing that it was the sample role pm?

[Zdenek]

Katsuki – I had a town read on Kats mainly based on the MattP kill..but that theory went all to hell when hp flipped town…so I’ll have to reread..

This is in the wrong order.

It doesn't bother anyone else that SoO got the order wrong here?

He's saying that he had town read on Katsuki because of the MattP kill, but that happened after hp flipped town.

[Zdenek]

The thing is, IF scum have additional information on the nature of this role (and we don't know that), then I would expect them to also have some kind of flavor-checking power to look for it directly.
Like a rolecop, just for flavor, I guess.
And that is if the assumption is correct.

Which means if just the universes are claimed, scum still need to investigate people seperatly for exact rolenames (no harm done).

In retrospect, Pjo basically claimed in this post.

[Zdenek]

Katsuki looked pretty good at the end on the day.

[Zdenek]

OVersoul, why did you think that checking the double universe claim was a good idea?

[Zdenek]

Day one end of day vote count:

Antagon - Katsuki, Amrun, hp [leaves], Zdenek, enomis, Oversoul, MattP
hp [leaves] - Zachrulez, Tierce, Antagon, sword_of_omens, implosion
fferyllt - Syryana
MattP - Tammy

Not voting: fferyllt

hp wagon: town, town, scum, SoO, town.
I am not inclined to think that two scum would jump on hp [leaves] to try to save Antagon, which makes me think that SoO is town.

Antagon wagon - Katsuki, Amrun, town, town, town, Oversoul, town.
It's possible that there are two scum here, but I don't think that Oversoul and Katsuki are scum together, and I don't think that Amrun is scum, so I am inclined to think that there is one scum one the wagon and it's Oversoul or Katsuki.

RainbowDash-fferyllt is almost for sure town.

So Syryana is very likely scum.

[Zdenek]

There were an even number of us, so a no lynch is not bad.

OS, Katsuki what do you think of Syryana?

[Zdenek]

Syruana, why didn't you vote Katsuki yesterday?

[Zdenek]

But you didn't think that Syryana was town yesterday.

[Zdenek]

Sorry that should be, but you didn't think that Katsuki was town yesterday.

[Zdenek]

I didn't think she was scum, either. Which meant fery got priority.

But there was basically no chance she was getting lynched yesterday,

Why do you think that SoO is scum?

[Zdenek]

BFF?

Best friends - a mason variant that can't talk to each other.

Tammy's role pm indicated Zdenek's character was in the game and suggested he was town iirc. Same in reverse for Zdenek's role pm. Once mass claim happened, they knew who was who.

I may be simplifying this or putting too much credence in the role alignment likelihood, though.

My role pm did not mention Tammy.

The main reason I'm not voting Katsuki is that Tammy's flip confirms me, but not the other way around, and I have a hard time seeing scum-Katsuki wanting me as confirmed town in the game. But I really hate his case on OS, so I don't know.

[Zdenek]

I saw this

@oversoul: And yet you are not voting for poo.

And yet I was until he claimed.
And yet I realized the implications of the wording of his role before you or Katsuki.
And yet I unvoted at that time.
And yet you can't read.

Or at least don't like to.

All you did was" I need to think about this".

Explain your unvote since you already 'realized' the implications of the wording and you think the correct action was to lynch him.

and realized that Oversoul is probably scum.

Enomis is exactly right. Oversoul's unvote makes absolutely no sense in this context.

Other points about OS on day 1.
Oversoul's 253 ignores everything that is going on at the time. Pjo had started trolling me and SoO, and Whimsy was at L-1/L-2.
In fairness, his vote was on Whimsy, but his vote there in a post where he didn't comment on Whimsy at all.

There's also the post where Oversoul asked Matt and Tierce to kiss and make-up. Up until then, he thought Matt was town, but criticized Tierce for pushing a bad argument against Zach, and was suspicious of her for how her interaction with Zach ended. I think asking them to kiss and make-up is something that one would say to town reads that are fighting, not to a town-read and to a someone who's other interactions you have found questionable.

[Zdenek]

Yeah, reading through the only thing about Katsuki that is bad is his accusation that Syryana was started pretending that he didn't know Antagon flipped scum after the crash but knew it before the crash and he hasn't followed through on that at all.

Personally, I don't remember what Syryana thought before the crash and I'm not even sure that he'd stated anything.

[Zdenek]

Unless i’m reading this wrong somehow, his unvote makes sense to me...he originally looked at it as too powerful to be scum, then thought it might be considered a fake claim....

The thing is, it's not too strong to be scum. It is too strong to be town.

[Zdenek]

I fucking hate that I have no idea who SoO wants to lynch right now,

[Zdenek]

But if he was scum he should be trying to push a mislynch, so I have no idea.

[Zdenek]

Flavor cop in this scenario has zero utility for scum. Scum really only need to find the one role: Enomis. As he was from Ar Tonelico (not Ar Telonico, bad Vi, no puppy), and there are no other characters from that univers

Unless they have a member from that Universe.

[Zdenek]

Of course it's still useless, since it just tells them that character is in the game.

[Zdenek]

DO you still think OS is more likely scum than Katsuki?

[Zdenek]

Sorry the other way around.

[Zdenek]

Vote: Oversoul

[Zdenek]

've stated why i think OS is town

Where?

[Zdenek]

Because thinking that he claimed a PR is not a town-tell and well looking like your trying to figure someone out it is not a great reason either.

[Zdenek]

If you think OS is town. Reread day 1. Look at the issues that arise. Look at the timing and content of Oversoul's posts. It should make you want to lynch him.

[Zdenek]

Se're not no lynching today, so fuck off SoO and your Amrun vote. Basically you just bought yourself tomorrow's rope. So that's cute.

I've played with SoO before and he's never whined like this about lack of access, so he probably is actually scum too, so right now, I'd love to string him up, but getting a wagon going there is isn't going happen now.

So somebody should probably
======[]
[]======

[Zdenek]

-For forcing me to fakeclaim a ridiculous role.

How?

[Zdenek]

Random

[Zdenek]

Good game. Thanks Vi.