Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Tammy]

VOTE: mattp

You have 5 pages to town tell...go!

In very strong agreement with zdenek. Spamming should be avoided, especially content less spamming as that drains the battery.

[Tammy]

Battery-Powered Deadlines. Deadlines in this game (outside Apocalypse) are measured via a meter that starts at 100% and counts down each real-time day by a varying amount. The amount is based on true activity.

^Zdenek your plan is a double-edged sword

People can post and say game relevant things without spamming the thread. There's also the comment about "true activity;" I don't know exactly how to take it, but presumably it means that we couldn't spam the thread in order to prolong deadlines.

I think it means the battery drains faster when there's a lot of spam that lacks content. But it drains more slowly with true activity.

[Tammy]

No, Mr. SK this does sound wrong.

There is no meaningful way to differentiate between "true" activity and spam activity, thus, I find it more likely the battery feels warm and cozy in the embrace of posts.

Therefor, needless spam is encouraged.

The embrace of posts yes, as I think the battery also drains when there is lack of activity, but not needless spamming.

[Tammy]

No, Mr. SK this does sound wrong.

There is no meaningful way to differentiate between "true" activity and spam activity, thus, I find it more likely the battery feels warm and cozy in the embrace of posts.

Therefor, needless spam is encouraged.

The embrace of posts yes, as I think the battery also drains when there is lack of activity, but not needless spamming.

What is your opinion on my case on Oversoul?

This is the type of pointless spamming that needs to be avoided. I couldn't possibly had an opinion on your silly reads list including people who have not posted.

But, if you or Oversoul ever flip scum, thank you for this potential link.

Also think claiming universes is a bad idea.

[Tammy]

Hello,

Hello, nice to meet you.

Whimsical Eggplant, are you Mastin

No.

I'm not particularly familiar with this site as of now (played a few games on the site a long time ago), but from the games I've been reading lately, it doesn't seem like people try to break the game too often or without good reason. Why not just enjoy the mod's really cool setup and play the game properly? (I'm not against what's being advocated, but I feel that it is much more useful near the

end

of a game, when we all have more information. At this point, we know next to nothing, but scum have a pool of information between each other, and are much more likely to benefit from our information.

Agreed with mattp(town read) that releasing flavor is a bad idea.

I'd also like to comment that silly joke votes at this point will be met with a quicklynch as we're definitely no longer in a random voting/checkin phase (I forget what the acronym for this is ) There is no reason for anyone to not have a vote down at this point, so please put your vote on someone and provide a reason for it.

I feel that Tammy is trying to feign content by discussing game mechanics/merely commenting instead of scumhunting. Therefore I will

VOTE: Tammy

Where did MattP say that in this thread? Just looked, can't find it.

How is MattP a town read for you when all he's done is comment and not scumhunted? In fact, I'd like for you to point out the big scum hunters.

Also, I can't tell if this is town arrogance or scum arrogance. I'm trying to figure out where you get off ordering people around. You really aren't familiar with this site are you.

And my vote on MattP is anything but silly. I know what I'm looking for and Matt hasn't provided it yet.

[Tammy]

Matt looks town

Why does Matt look town?

[Tammy]

I've been thinking about that newbie game. I assume pjo gambits no matter what alignment he is.

He's your scumbuddy, isn't he.

I feel that Tammy is trying to feign content by discussing game mechanics/merely commenting instead of scumhunting.

Matt looks town

Why does Matt look town?

The timing of this scumhunting is most suspicious.

Scum: fery, Pjo, Tammy

I think finding three scum before the end of Page 2 is some kind of record for me

Cool. Why is it suspicious. And I'll totally admit to it being suspicious, if you can point to where I was posting at this site in the meantime and then hopped to it to do some scumhunting because I was called out. And if you really think someone saying I'm not scumhunting on page two of a mafia game makes me get all skittish and run to scumhunt, you clearly don't know how I think as scum.

Why don't you ask me why I'm finding the Matt town reads suspicious? Show me you're actually interested in determining my alignment.

[Tammy]

Syryana, what do you think of Whimsy? Why are you voting ffrey?

1)I want to see his response on why he has a Matt townread. His point about Tammy is good.
2)Reaction trolling, naturally.

VOTE: Tammy

Pedit: Oho! A fight! Let's dance, Tammy-o!

Yes, let's. You lead. I know all the dances, am prepared and ready, buddy.

Oh and just for the record, the timing argument is weak. I got that shit called on me in YOLOville. I respond to things as I get to a thread. And IF I were scum here, getting called out for not scumhunting, I wouldn't even reply until tomorrow just to avoid the timing argument. So, you should probably catch up on a scum game of mine and read how I actually play. It's not this.

[Tammy]

Cool. Why is it suspicious. And I'll totally admit to it being suspicious, if you can point to where I was posting at this site in the meantime and then hopped to it to do some scumhunting because I was called out. And if you really think someone saying I'm not scumhunting on page two of a mafia game makes me get all skittish and run to scumhunt, you clearly don't know how I think as scum.

Why don't you ask me why I'm finding the Matt town reads suspicious? Show me you're actually interested in determining my alignment.

It's completely irrelevant whether you were posting elsewhere on the site. The point is, Whimsy-boy over there calls you out for not scumhunting, then you make a post yelling at him, and two minutes later you start scumhunting.

I already know why you find the Matt townreads suspicious. And I've already figured out your alignment

Pedit: And more self-meta! This is glorious!

It's the truth. You should check it out. I'm very careful as scum about those things.

Darling, if you figured out my alignment, you wouldn't be voting me.

And it is relevant. The suggestion that only makes sense is if I were here and posting and ignoring this thread until I got called out, and then 20 minutes later decided to scum hunt. Which I maintain I actually was doing with Matt and with the pjo kid. So, yeah, that all you got.

You're slipping on your lead and stepping on my toes. Not a good dance partner. I give you a C.

[Tammy]

Okay Zach's right, Zdenek is town.

[Tammy]

Okay Zach's right, Zdenek is town.

You aren't.

You're so cute.

[Tammy]

Matt looks town

Why does Matt look town?

The gambit thing looks like Matt from First Time the whole gambit thing. Plus I'd rather Matt be town than scum since it will make my life so much easier.
Flavor for this game is uh... Gonna be interesting to say the least.

Tierce does it ring any bells to you? Based on the comments made by certain players?

What gambit did he make?

[Tammy]

SYRYANA YOU'RE DANCE SKILLS ARE SUCKING.

Just so you know. I expected a little more.

[Tammy]

Umm... I'll let you figure that one out.
Since you seem to know when Matt is acting townie or not, I assume you are aware of his play?

It's...why I voted him and told him to town tell within five pages. He should be one of the players here, who if town, I can get a town read on pretty quickly. I was hoping for a different kind of response to my town-tell post; it doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I don't see how any of his three posts make you read him as town.

It makes me a little suspicious of you though because I get a bit twitchy when people give strong players early town reads for nearly no reason.

[Tammy]

Okay Zach's right, Zdenek is town.

You aren't.

You're so cute.

Pedit: I HAVE LACED LE FLOOR WITH MINES, IN THEM YOU SHALL STEP

My shoes have a mine detector. I'm like, untouchable.

[Tammy]

Hey Syryana - I have some grading to do. What you should do is call me out for something. I'll come back in like 20 minutes and hop to it to get it done.

[Tammy]

Hey Syryana - I have some grading to do. What you should do is call me out for something. I'll come back in like 20 minutes and hop to it to get it done.

Nah, you're town.

I know. You probably are too.

[Tammy]

OS is probstown.

[Tammy]

VOTE: mattp

You have 5 pages to town tell...go!

In very strong agreement with zdenek. Spamming should be avoided, especially content less spamming as that drains the battery.

did he?

My magic eight ball says no. Don't know what that means yet, except I'm disappointed my easy peasy town read hasn't made it easy.

[Tammy]

Ohmygods...Pjovek...you post too much.

[Tammy]

I know who I'd policy lynch...sorry for spamming.

[Tammy]

Tammy

– Is also null..although I have her on my watch list, as her scum game is pretty good and I’d hate to get caught with my pants down…

I've never been accused of have a pretty good scum game before so <3.

(I'm obviously town already if you know how to read me though )

[Tammy]

Oh yeah, forgot Enomis is probstown too.

I want to read back over a few thing and maybe I'll contribute something more than scattershot. I need to eat some dinner and catch up on other games first though.

[Tammy]

Tammy I remember you loving to post MOI-style of walls... whatever happened to that? (though I guess I'm not complaining but I'd rather not have another me in the game )

I've decreased the amount of walls I make. Pretty much depends on my mood, how much time I have, and how I'm thinking about the game. I played one game where I wrote only five walls the entire game! I'm sure there will be walls, just not right now.

Sorry if my spam caused the battery to go down.

[Tammy]

Tammy: if we can get you to see the obvious (hi--I'm Town! ^__^), you, Syryana and I could probably do something awesome with this game.

I was leaning that way, but your posts were ones I wanted to read through again to be sure. But I like this, it has that "hey idiot, can't you tell I'm town yet cuz you should!" quality that I like. (not that I think you'd call me an idiot in an insulting way, but you probably get my point.)

[Tammy]

@Tammy: What do you think of Whimsical plant?

------------------------------------------------------

I am getting the feeling that whimsical would be replaced and we can't question him further on his post. Hurray!

Pretty much the same thing I thought in my reply. I don't know anything about him other than what I read in a gd thread about ongoing games, so i dont know what to expect. I dont like his first post, but without follow up, im not sure. I was thinking something different than what has been brought up about the potential slip. I'll keep that until he either responds or is replaced though.

What is weird about him potentially getting replaced though is that in the sign ups he was giving katsuki a bit of a hard time about playing but possibly replacing out. He said he wouldn't barring external circumstances and talked about how he really wanted to play, so him being gone is eh.

[Tammy]

What is weird about him potentially getting replaced though is that in the sign ups he was giving katsuki a bit of a hard time about playing but possibly replacing out. He said he wouldn't barring external circumstances and talked about how he really wanted to play, so him being gone is eh.

I never looked at the signup page much after actually signing up. Now I think I should.

Sorry I misread. It was katsuki who said he wouldn't be replacing out barring external circumstances and wanted to play. It was in response to him asking why he was playing if he would replace out. Drrrr.

[Tammy]

All right...leaning town on zach, but that should become easier to nail down in the coming days. I also don't think the ffery wagon is a great wagon, but I'd like to hear syryana's read on her since I know they're hydraing. I'll probably look up a game or two of hers when I have some time after work tomorrow. (damn you empire, do you see what you've done to me?)

I know I've still got my rvs vote on Matt, but I really don't feel comfortable moving it. I also don't know who else I would want to move it to at the moment. I feel like I have a couple decent town reads, some leaning town reads, but not a whole lot of leads for scum. That's probably because I've read this so quickly though. There are some things I want to look into, which won't happen until tomorrow after work. Maybe then I can nail down my thoughts on Matt and explain it.

[Tammy]

@Katsuki, did you read the Syry part of that gawdawful wall I posted at the top of this page?

Katsuki doesn't read walls unless they're about cupcakes

[Tammy]

Meanwhile…

I've never been accused of have a pretty good scum game before so <3.

Considering you came pretty damn close to winning Abarat for your team, even after they all fell apart so early in the game i'd beg to differ...

I think I did play decently in that game, and is probably one of my best scum games at MS...and I sadly didn't win. I still think I have a pretty poor scum game and don't really have people thinking I have a pretty good one. So that's really kind of a thank you that you think I do.

[Tammy]

Big freaking surprise, fferyllt. I'm one of the most easily distinguishable players on the site if people can be bothered to read up on my games.

The irony.

Okay I haven't had a chance to read up on ffery like I said I would (and it might wait until tomorrow) but my first thought is that this comes from town.

SYRYANA?!?

[Tammy]

Tammy, what are you doing?

Having a glass of wine and catching up on games while I wait for my dinner to cook. What are you doing?

[Tammy]

Just finished dinner and debating whether I should try to get some work done.

What do you think of W. Egg/Antagon?

Waiting for more from him. I don't like the first Egg post, and am bummed that he replaced out before responding. Don't know what to think about Antagon yet, and I'd like to actually read through the thread in one sitting to get a handle on some of my reads that are floating.

But, what I did think was possible with Egg's first post wasn't necessarily that Matt had mentioned not claiming flavor in the QT, but that he meant to mention you when he mentioned Matt, and saying Matt was by accident. Now, I'm suspicious of Matt anyway, so it's possible that he just put Matt's name there because it was one he recognized from the QT, but that might be tinfoil area.

[Tammy]

There's no bad logic there. You're trying to dodge me, Matt. Please explain your reasoning.

Matt is being fake. You should vote him.

[Tammy]

There's no bad logic there. You're trying to dodge me, Matt. Please explain your reasoning.

You're saying it's an "easy" vote as if "easy" and "scummy" are mutually exclusive

I don't like this logic, you know it sucks and you know I wouldn't go for an easy vote like that

Ffery didn't build steam and it was a scare tactic based on a fairly reasonable scummy post from ffery

Since I'm at L-1 I'm going to claim now. I'm a VT, my name is Rosalina, from Mario

Uh-huh...Matt what do you always claim as scum? Oh VT?

Matt is being fake. You should vote him.

Listen to this girl she's an alcoholic

have you been talking to empire?

Dismissing me won't help you.

Oh FUCK

FUCK FUCK FUCK

I thought that one vote one me (L1) was the same thing as (L-1)

Oh FAKE

FAKE FAKE FAKE

[Tammy]

You guys have big poles in your butts, Christ

...you can do better than this Matt. You're not even trying.

[Tammy]

Fortunately, I have a high threshold for people accusing me of being stupid on the internet.

So, Matt, what are your reads? Hmmm?

Also, first off, you can answer me this...

Syryana protip you should stop wasting your time with Tammy

Why did you intervene in the Syry/me dance early game?

[Tammy]

Fortunately, I have a high threshold for people accusing me of being stupid on the internet.

So, Matt, what are your reads? Hmmm?

Also, first off, you can answer me this...

Syryana protip you should stop wasting your time with Tammy

Why did you intervene in the Syry/me dance early game?

Because I knew you were town from Marketplace?

You do know that my claim was a troll, right? Because I'm pretty sure that was completely transparent

I don't feel like giving reads ty

Of course it was obvious that I was town, but you didn't take the opportunity to use that to gain reads on anyone else? Did that help you with a read on Syryana at least?

You have to do better than that, Matt.

I think you're claim was you pretty transparently trying to fake a derp town tell, but that might just be me. Ask your scum buddies how transparent that was.

[Tammy]

Are you going to just completely blow off ffery's posts pls let me know ASAP if I should go study instead of waiting here to deal with denseness

You did not answer my question if you got a read off of Syry from our interaction.

Also, if you'd read the thread you'd know that I don't agree with the ffery wagon.

[Tammy]

I have a VERY SMALL sense of patience for stupidity

I am TRYING MY BEST to be patient with you only because you're unfortunately town

Please be civil by using your brain

Oh I'm crying right now Matt.

I am town, and quite fortunately so. Has it been so long for you that you got a scum role pm that you forgot how to pretend to be town?

Can you stop being dismissive and actually play the game? I repeat I have a really high threshold for people insulting me on the internet especially when it's based on a game where someone tries to use the tactic to make me doubt myself. IF you are town, and IF you want me to think you're town, act like it.

Capslocking minor league insults, doesn't do it. Sorry

[Tammy]

The troll was me acting confused about how lynches work

If you think that I did that for towncred then fine but stop being moronic

Ok, so this was a genuine reaction, I think. All that capslock was bullshit.

[Tammy]

Ok, so this was a genuine reaction, I think. All that capslock was bullshit.

Lolwut? So I'm genuine town but lying at the same time?

No, I don't think you are lying, not with that reaction.

Why do you think that reaction can't be faked?

[Tammy]

):

This whole page

OH NO! Someone's paying attention to me, I suppose I should post in this game.

My interpretation of your posts today.

Matt tell me. How valuable do you think it is for someone to interrupt another person's attempt to get a read on someone early in the game? Do you think you have the capability of realizing when someone is trying to get a read on someone early in the game?

How many reads do you have so far in this game? It's what 18 pages? You don't have any reads? A scum read on ffery? A town read on me?

That it?

[Tammy]

Yeah you're scum and should hang.

[Tammy]

Yeah you're scum and should hang.

Would you like meta proof? Because you're very blatantly tunneling

Oh am I?

Cool. What are your scum reads besides ffery if I'm such a horrible tunneler? And make it for something that sounds real. Because all you've done lately is lame.

You never did answer my question. Do you think you are capable of telling when someone else is trying to get a read on someone early in the game, and do you think it's valuable to step in? If so, what is your read on Syryana from our interaction?

I think you're scum, so yes, I'm going to push that until you actually do something to make me think I'm wrong. Oh and hint: Insulting me won't make me think I'm wrong. Sorry.

[Tammy]

I wanted pressure on ffery so I tried to stop distractions

I'm not giving reads, sorry

Since when did your pressure on your suspects amount to the flaccid attempts you've done so far with ffery? You really didn't try to do anything but occasionally make a post like "oh um gee guys ffery's escaping pressure and you all are letting her." You didn't even actually try to read her.

Since when do you interrupt someone else's attempt to read someone at the beginning of the game with "your wasting your time"?

Since you bring up marketplace, you used an early scum read on me that you pushed like crazy the first few pages of the game and continued to push even after you started town reading me, to get reads on not only me but other people posting. Your push on ffery lit is nowhere even close to that. You feel like you're attempting to fake your town obnoxiousness with "I'm bubbles inside" in Post 76. You didn't actually push your big scum read to the point that she even notes that you haven't put much pressure on her.

Your entire play so far has been to be dismissive and insulting to people who suspect you, and to lamely push someone else as scum. And if your town play has actually devolved into not actually doing anything and calling other people in the game stupid or moronic, I'm very sad for you because you used to be a good player. But, I don't see anything coming from you right now that makes me think you're town. And you can call you're claiming an obvious troll all you want. It looks completely fake to me, as does your entire play this game.

[Tammy]

I read Matt's recent posts. Matt is almost certainly town.

I read Zach's 182 in depth. I don't like it. Some of the points are legitimate rebuttals, but trying to defend the push on pjovek is a bit odd, and calling the difference between pushing for a full or a partial massclaim a "semantic difference" when it is in fact a rather large difference seems to be sidestepping the main point that's being made, which is that his push lacked context.

As i continue reading his iso, nothing sticks out as particularly townish. He made a specific point earlier that his reads are subject to change, implying that this is important. I feel like he's dismissing a lot of Mattp's posting as scummy when it's just bad play. I use the word dismissing here because I think a lot of his posting on matt feels like he's assuming that matt is scum and then deriving that Matt's play is bad scumplay. i.e., 493. Even not buying that argument does not make Matt scum. Even if his argument is completely wrong, that doesn't mean that Matt doesn't genuinely believe it. A bad argument can still be genuine.

HOORAY I DID THINGS

Matt is perfectly capable of faking that amount of AtE as scum. The fact that that is the bulk of what he's done coupled with dismissively insulting anyone who suspects him is troubling, but I'll expand on this in my post to Matt at some point tonight.

I don't know about Zach, I'm leaning town on him, but I feel like I could get a solid feel on his alignment in a few days. Zach doesn't like being scum and tends to lurk. In the Wire when Empire and I were trying to read the Zach/Sotty hydra, Empire was like don't try to read Sotty that won't help. Look at what Zach posts and how often. He also kinda comes across as fake as scum. I remember in Castle Zar when he replaced in for MoI, and DGB replaced out because I asked her to explain some reads, he took my side on that in a kinda oily way...now that I look back on it. Anyway, his discussion with Tierce over meta and his expecting Tierce to read through his meta because he feels like he has a pretty obvious scum v. town meta felt townish.

[Tammy]

Meta is dumb if a player has been on site for at least a year, people aren't machines and once they're confident enough to play scum without shitting themselves they will be temperamental and they will change from one game to another

[Tammy]

Darlin - Do you forget I replaced into your scum slot in Abarat or that we've been scum partners before? You are capable of it. You are lying if you want to say you aren't.

Did I say, he's scum for using AtE? No, you're perfectly capable of it and you are. I'm perfectly capable of faking that amount of AtE as scum, and if I am you certainly are.

You were obvious town in War is Hell. I followed along for a good part of it, and you were super obvious town during your argument with Tierce in that game, but you did a couple things there that you haven't done here.

[Tammy]

It'll be very funny if you end up being scum

IF you think there's a possibility I'm scum, why aren't you pushing me? You've said you know I'm town, which I obviously am. You've caught me as scum before...why aren't you pulling out the steps to Tammy as scum?

OH.

[Tammy]

I completely recognize my play has gone down the shitter. I attribute it to not having drawn scum at all (this bars ongoing game discussion) for like EIGHT months

Matt. I couldn't give a shit that your play has gone down the shitter. As far as I'm concerned it's rather cyclic and doesn't really have a barring on whether or not you've drawn scum. But I remember you posting that in the after game discussion of Fortnight, so I get that you think that. I went six months without drawing scum before I ended up drawing scum three times in a fricking row at my home site (hi Tierce feel your pain!). What's funny is, I actually had one of my strongest town games ever right before I went on the scum streak there.

But, what drawing town a lot did not do to me, was make me forget how to actually look town when town. I maintain it made my ability to look town even stronger than it already was. But, I understand games where your reads suck. I've been there. I've been in games where I literally haven't been able to get decent reads at all. Where at lynch time what I did was decide just who looked more town than the other and go from there because I was lost.

This is not my problem with you though. I couldn't care less if your reads are sucking. This is not a newbie game. Look at this player list. There is no need of hand holding here. My problem with you is that you just don't look town to me. And I know you are capable of looking town. Hell, you're probably one of the more obnoxious "Im obvtown" players here. (Maybe not more than Empire or Tierce, but midway between me and them).

Here is where I started having a problem with you Matt.

VOTE: mattp

You have 5 pages to town tell...go!

That's contingent on there being a dumbass in the game

Why is it contingent on there being a dumbass in the game? Why so passive? It's the beginning of the game, you were around, why not take initiative? From what I know of you, you get your best reads from the early stages of the game.

But you know I thought, hey that's kind of weird, but we'll see what happens.

Then you bring this...

But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment.

You're lying

You didn't actually come to that conclusion

Would you like to stop lying now or should this be a power lynch? [:

When I saw this, I thought, okay Matt's starting to do his thing.

And then you did this...

Syryana protip you should stop wasting your time with Tammy

Why wouldn't you answer my question last night about whether or not you think you're able to recognize when someone is trying to get a read on someone? You're a smart guy, you couldn't tell that he was trying to get a read on me? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that he realized I was town a few posts before he stopped the dance, based on a couple things he said.

What throws me off, is that I know that since you like to push people to get reads and see how people react and get reads from that, that you should have recognized what he was doing. And I can't figure out why you stepped in with this post. I can't figure out why you wouldn't stand back for a minute and see how it went and let it help you get a read on syryana or anyone else. And I know that you say you wanted to stop distractions for your fferylit suspicion and lynch, but really? No, really? I've seen you tell people not to respond in the midst of one of your pushes to gauge reads, and you interrupt what should be recognizable to you?

It felt off to me. But, still, well let's see.

But then your play just devolved into a rather flaccid push on fferylit, and I don't care that you don't have any reasons. Though I would like to see some now. I've made at least two posts about my dissatisfaction with the fferylit wagon and though you're town reading me, you haven't tried to get me to see your point of view? This doesn't make sense to me either. It's not like we've never played together before or in marketplace we didn't work well together. It's not like I'm unreasonable.

But you're not doing anything.

You can't even give reads. All you've done is whine about your bad town play lately and how you can't catch scum because you haven't drawn scum. But what's worse Matt, is that all you've done beyond that is dismiss and insult people who are suspecting you. And I could understand if you were dismissive after you'd been obviously town, but you haven't so the way you're dismissing the suspicion on you doesn't feel natural. Hell, in marketplace when you got suspicion, you didn't just insult people you explained why their suspicions were unwarranted. But here it's people are stupid, dense or moronic for suspecting you when you haven't done anything to make anyone think you're town.

And if you're town and if you're honest with yourself you'll know you haven't. Your play is suspect, and I know you can do better. And again I couldn't care less if your reads are super awesome, what I care about it being able to discern your alignment.

[Tammy]

Babe I think you're town

I'll just very much hate you endgame and probably laugh simultaneously

If my scum game is ever able to progress to looking this town, I'll call you and we can have a party.

[Tammy]

Okay, but I did say I needed to meta ffery, so I didn't completely ignore it. And you're not the only one with limited time. I do still need to meta ffery; i'll do it tomorrow afternoon.

I also want to hear from Syryana on ffery. They've played together and have been hydraing, so he should be able to get a better read on her.

[Tammy]

Oversoul any time you feel like not being useless it'd be great. Either shape up or get out. Sideline posts that have nothing to do with the game and zero content are ridiculous.

Katsuki is probably Town if Antagon is scum. MattP is scum regardless. Actually rather nice pile of Townreads if -things-, so etc.

Sorry? I take it you think I am town, which I guess my battle is half won.
I am actually contributing to a crucial wagon while you're... making noise I guess? about MattP. If you have any questions about my MattP read, follow Katsuki's logic about Whimsy flip > Matt's alignment.

But I will make more (serious?) posts tonight.

OS, where's your paranoia? Has that evaporated from your play? You just finished a game where you and Tierce were partners, right? You're not paranoid of her at all?

[Tammy]

Syryana - Did you actually catch up with the thread? Can you please tell me what you think of fferylit? thnx

[Tammy]

Matt - why did you say you haven't been scum for eight months? Are you forgetting replacing into streetcars as scum and then promptly replacing out 6 days later?

[Tammy]

So, that was 5 months ago.

[Tammy]

You were also scum in gay mafia...started in December and you were alive until day 5.

[Tammy]

Okay I'll respond to the rest, but I just got done reading three games of ffery's, have asked syryana for his read on ffery. So even though you don't know that I've been reading games, it's very clear in the thread I'm asking about ffery.

And just so you know every time I ask someone a question, it's not that I'm implying it's scummy. I wanted to read through your last scum game, and in trying to find it those stood out and I found it odd that you were characterizing it as sooooooo long ago, when it actually wasn't.

And chill, I'm getting ready to read through this game from the beginning like I said I needed to.

[Tammy]

You keep saying I can do this as scum with no problem, but I never have, and I actually don't think I can get myself as upset as I got at one point in this game (or war is hell) even if faking. I'm not saying that me being emotional is the only way I'd ever respond as town to pressure, I'm saying that if I do respond this way to pressure as town, it probably means I'm stressed already irl (see posh mafia, war is hell, and this) and I am not at a level of normalcy where I can just respond rationally to pressure as town. I generally immediately lash out because I'm already upset and then get even more upset when it shoots me in the foot.

Yeah, I'm using meta, sue me, it's self meta though and I know how I am as a player

I think you are capable of it. I think I'm capable of it even though I never have and can't imagine me doing it as scum. And one reason is I just care about my scum games less so getting legitimately upset is hard for me. I get the emotional outbursts under stress; I've probably had some of the more embarrassing meltdowns on this site.

And I happen to find self meta townish anyway, but yes in vanger you did self meta what you didn't think you could fake.

[Tammy]

Whimsical Eggplant, are you Mastin

Why did you ask this when in the sign up thread after you asked whose alt he was, he told you noones just an old account he forgot the information of?

[Tammy]

Oh before I forget I'm rethinking both of my zach and OS leaning town reads.

[Tammy]

My lack of attention to the game over the weekend was due to having lots of shiny distractions. My lack of attention in that timeframe isn't meant to say that I was never going to give the content in the game attention, just that I wasn't in much of a position to over the last couple of days.

Why did you feel the need to preempitvely defend yourself for this?

[Tammy]

I'm hesitant because some of you obviously know MattP's game quite well, but he has come off as genuine IMO and I'm leaning town. I feel like pushing him on this is becoming a waste of game-time.

So, who are your scum reads?

[Tammy]

I think I'd like to discuss a few things in-thread with you, Tammy, but tonight I am far too scatterbrained and occasionally busy. How's tomorrow evening looking for you?

Tomorrows good for me and better than tonight anyway. I'll finish reading tonight/tomorrow and think over whatever I need to during a swim. I have grading to do tomorrow evening so would love an interruption. :p

[Tammy]

Oh yayaayayaya now I dont have to try

VOTE: Antagon

Weren't you super scum reading ffery at this point? Why do you sound gleeful at the antagon scum read?

[Tammy]

^^^that might sound like a dumb question, but I'm trying to figure out why if you thought you caugh scum with ffery, you sound happy to not do anything here.

[Tammy]

Zach: when did you decide I am Town?

Where do you get that conclusion?

The way you've been treating me.

Been starting to lean that way, I guess my posting perhaps is betraying that.

Still something eating at me about you though. See 473.

This post is bothering me. If he was starting to lean that way, why would he be surprised she picked up on it? It just doesnt really fit with his wondering why he thought she was town.

[Tammy]

...so HP leaves said he was going to contribute soon. 36 hours ago. Did he actually do anything?

[Tammy]

My lack of attention to the game over the weekend was due to having lots of shiny distractions. My lack of attention in that timeframe isn't meant to say that I was never going to give the content in the game attention, just that I wasn't in much of a position to over the last couple of days.

Why did you feel the need to preempitvely defend yourself for this?[/quote]

If you have to ask that, I have to wonder if you actually read the part of the game that came from.[/quote]


...I did. It struck me as weird the first time I read it through, but I figured I missed something. I think it's pretty obvious I reread most of the game tonight and no it didn't strike me as natural this time either. Feel free to point me to what I missed.

[Tammy]

...I did. It struck me as weird the first time I read it through, but I figured I missed something. I think it's pretty obvious I reread most of the game tonight and no it didn't strike me as natural this time either. Feel free to point me to what I missed.

You're making a mountain of a molehill here.

I'm not making anything. I asked you a question as I'm trying to clear up my read on you. If I missed something, why didn't you just point it out?

[Tammy]

SYRYANA

I just woke up and haven't stretched yet. Something slow? Like a waltz?

[Tammy]

No I mean you're making too big a deal of that particular action. The game started on the weekend and I had other things on my mind so I felt I should explain that my early play came from very limited attention to the game. I don't even get how you think that has scum motivation, because it would make more sense to wait till I actually get called out for it before I defend myself from it. It's like you're reading through my play and

trying to find something.

Something that isn't there. Seriously if you have any doubts about your read of me go read 160B again.

I was trying to find something. I was trying to find something that made me think my first impulse was correct...that you're probably town. Every time I ask a question it's not an attack or me going aha scum! If something strikes me as odd, I usually point it out or ask something about it. And I did find it odd that you felt the need to explain, mostly because it reflects a heightened sense of how people are perceiving you. Even that doesn't necessarily make you scum. I was starting to doubt my initial read a little and was trying to work through that. I like this response to me though.

[Tammy]

OS - I'm not quoting your post but it's Post 631 I'm responding too. (I don't feel like going to a computer right now)

It's not necessarily that. The way I read you is by a feeling I get when you post. There's just something in your tone, I guess, that when you're town I've been able to pick up on. It was missing when I followed along in Khans game. It was something that was missing in black flag too, though you did the fake ate quite well. I thought I saw a spark of your townish posts earlier but then that disappeared. You seem more, mechanical, maybe? I don't really kow how to explain it.

If you had doubts about my alignment though, why werent you interacting with me?

Paranoia and suspicion are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but paranoia tends to have the element of the irrational. Me getting paranoid of empire in yoloville for instance was irrational. The things I suspected was legitimate but he was extremely obvious town, so it was silly. You being paranoid about tierce and fake day killing her because her claim reminded you of when she was scum and you thought she was fooling you was irrational. Your hyper paranoia of ces in team mafia was similar.

So yes you've shown suspicion of tierce, but it feels muted. Like its not real suspicion or it's not something that you feel. I don't get the sense that you feel like she's fooling anyone, or potentially fooling you.

Even your "oh dear Tammy this is where we start to have problems" feels off. I'm starting to doubt my town read of you because you don't feel town. It doesn't mean I'm scum reading you, I'm just not town reading you and am looking at you a bit more closely.

Pedit: that's perfect syry

[Tammy]

Antagon - what is the name of your role?

[Tammy]

Matt - I don't care if you reaction test people.

I'll talk about ferry when I get back from a swim.

[Tammy]

It's a little bit mean that you don't think I could feel his post was fake and rationalize from there yo

Don't lie Matt, you know you have a friend helping you read the thread. It's OKAY. You can admit it. We're all friends here.

SAFE SPACE.

Matt do you know what one of my biggest fears is right now? That you're appealing to me, and trying to get me to doubt myself, and then you're in your scum qt laughing about what a softie I am and how it was just too easy to make me doubt myself because I'm like self-doubter extraordinaire.

[Tammy]

Hmm...
That's interesting. I've never really had someone go deep into my meta.

I didn't search into your meta, that's based on the games we've played.

I'm not sure where you get the fact that I was very overtly suspicious of you? From my comment about you being more than likely town? I had a feeling that you were town but once you started having suspicions about me after calling me town is what sealed the deal, especially as no one has been chiming up about my alignment and you brought it up on your own volition.

Yeah, when you made that comment I thought it sounded like you were saying that you were unsure of my alignment.

I really don't know how to tell that I am town because you read me through tone but yes I did change my playstyle.
I think you might be able to see the difference in Fortnight as that was the beginning of the change when DGB, Kuribo, and Tbone were just hammering it into the rail that I was scum because I was playing "weird". I mean.. you can look across everything (please don't make me explain this) to see if my play has changed overall or if it is different here. I would argue it has. It has changed because I'm not trying to get as emotionally invested into games as I used to since playing mafia seems much easier that way. I took things pretty personally before and saw shadows in the dark (if this game is still going on and certain events occur) I'll explain. I got bitter about being lynched, about getting accused of being scum, about being wrong with my scum reads. These things would carry over into real life where I would be agitated or angry if people started accusing me of things and the mood wouldn't go away until I forgot about things. I'm trying to make mafia less in-tune with my life and be less serious about it.
I don't know if it has really helped me in mafia but it has certainly helped me that I'm not distracted during the day by the emotions brought on by mafia.

As a somewhat emotional player, I get this. I followed along in Fortnight and all the reasons they brought up to suspect you was why I knew you were really obviously town in that game.

[Tammy]

SYRY - Is your dinner over? Can we talk about ffery?

[Tammy]

...I kinda wanna lynch antagon or implosion.

[Tammy]

Oh. I think I've had a meta discussion about implosion recently. Need to check my chat logs.

[Tammy]

Oh. I think I've had a meta discussion about implosion recently. Need to check my chat logs.

. We didnt really. Just in general discussion about implosion being obvious scum in mafia behind the maiden.

Matt - I don't buy that as any sort of town tell from implosion.

[Tammy]

Tammy--I still want to go over things with you and Syryana, but apparently didn't sleep well tonight. Coffee + shaking myself awake means it will still be a few hours before I can read through attentively and get something useful out, so it probably won't work out in real time.

I'll be around for just a little bit. I have thoughts I wanna give on ffery, but hopefully will be passing out soon. If I do fall asleep soon though, I'll be around in the morning for a bit. So maybe not real time, but I might be able to respond before Monday evening.

[Tammy]

Wait. Tammy is a hydra?

No. But sometimes a friend of mine I do hydra with will discuss players meta if following or discussing games.

[Tammy]

I'm going to sleep, and I want to hear what syryana has to say about ffery first as I think he's wrong. And I want antagon to give his role name. His claim and the way he made it doesn't make sense.

[Tammy]

I was hoping to get to this game tonight, but ran out of time. I'd stay up but I have an interview tomorrow (wish me luck!) so can't.

Anyway, one thing I remembered I wanted to ask was why zdenek thinks the amrun slot is most likely town? I thought her intro was completely underwhelming.

The thing with Antagon's claim is: the name sounds legit. I remember in mafia behind the maiden I was a commuter and had a role name/flavor name with something like duck out. I couldn't take people with me, but I was a nonconsecutive commuter. There was role in Abarat where there was a nonconsecutive commuter who could take people with him. The problem I have with the claim is the description of it being an ascetic/jailkeeper role. Ascetics can't be targeted by roles but can be killed. So, I'm lost on that part of the description.

I'm leaning town on ffery. I think that it's gone beyond anyone really scum reading her, but in reading through her games she's really slow and deliberate like this. I also don't think she reacts to a vote or two the way that some people do...don't think she's the type to easily rile up. In a couple of her scum games, she either didn't really focus on the game that in depth or aggressively pushed in a way that was superficial. So, I think the slow, cautious way of her giving reads is more her town play. I've been putting that off long enough and now it's been nearly a week since I read those games so I can't remember particulars.

I'd still be up for lynching implosion. Going to bed now though can't really think.

[Tammy]

Tammy, my intro is underwhelming? What intro? I haven't read the game yet. Lol. I warned upon replacing in that it would take a while because of how my life works out. Mod said it was okay.

Yeah, intro to me is the first couple posts, which were meh. You'll forgive me I'm sure if you remember our last game you made excuses for not reading and doing stuff and turned out to be scum. (I realize it was a difficult time in your life, but still.)

[Tammy]

My shoes have a mine detector. I'm like, untouchable.

Serial killer. KILL IT WITH FIRE

how about we stop the circle jerk....

and lynch fferyllt

Lynch Tammy first

As much as I think jumping to SK is a bit of a baffler, I didn't notice that this might be a soft claim until Syryana quoted it. I thought about it, and how much sense does it make for someone who is actually a bullet proof to do this? (None.) But it shows Syryana is LOOKING for soft claims in a way that I wasn't. This is a major scum point for Syryana, though the rest of his posts haven't continued to strike me in the same way.

That was really how you took that?

[Tammy]

[

Tammy

– Is also null..although I have her on my watch list, as her scum game is pretty good and I’d hate to get caught with my pants down…

I've never been accused of have a pretty good scum game before so <3.

(I'm obviously town already if you know how to read me though )

I really dislike this appeal to authority. (If you knew what you were doing, you'd read me as town.) Tierce does it, too, but I've seen Tierce do it before as both alignments (though I have to say, more as scum, I think), so it didn't really surprise me there.

Appeal to buzzwhat? Preettttyyy sure the little heart there is a thanks for someone actually being paranoid of me, someone who doesn't believe they have a very good scum game. And I'm kinda sure the emoticon denotes a semi-joke. No, SOO probs doesn't know how to read me as he's only seen me once as scum in the game he's referencing.

You're not wrecking face Amrun

___________________

Interested in Syry's reasoning on ffery scum.

Aaaaaand I tried to comprehend the past couple pages but I had a ridiculously long day an an interview so my mind is fried. I will get back to this tomorrow after work.

[Tammy]

Pedit: Amrun, did you read the conversation between me and Tammy before that "softclaim"? Because it's pretty apparent the "softclaim" is nothing of the sort(see my comment about lacing dance floors with mines) and the "SERIAL KILLER" was intended as a joke.

Of course I'm aware it's a joke. That doesn't change what it says about you that you decided to joke in THAT particular way.

Tammy, my intro is underwhelming? What intro? I haven't read the game yet. Lol. I warned upon replacing in that it would take a while because of how my life works out. Mod said it was okay.

Yeah, intro to me is the first couple posts, which were meh. You'll forgive me I'm sure if you remember our last game you made excuses for not reading and doing stuff and turned out to be scum. (I realize it was a difficult time in your life, but still.)

It took me a while to remember what you were talking about. Yeah, that happened, but it was alignment irrelevant, and this is quite a different ballgame altogether. I told everyone from the outset that nothing doing until Monday, and then internet didn't cooperate. I'm reading, though, obviously.

Uh-huh. And I'm pretty sure I made that comment on Monday. Now unless you have esp and told the mod you'd have internet problems on Monday after your internet problems then I don't see why you're upset I made a comment that day of feeling underwhelmed. If I made that comment after you'd started obviously reading, I could see this complaint, but before that? No, sorry.

[

Tammy

– Is also null..although I have her on my watch list, as her scum game is pretty good and I’d hate to get caught with my pants down…

I've never been accused of have a pretty good scum game before so <3.

(I'm obviously town already if you know how to read me though )

I really dislike this appeal to authority. (If you knew what you were doing, you'd read me as town.) Tierce does it, too, but I've seen Tierce do it before as both alignments (though I have to say, more as scum, I think), so it didn't really surprise me there.

Appeal to buzzwhat? Preettttyyy sure the little heart there is a thanks for someone actually being paranoid of me, someone who doesn't believe they have a very good scum game. And I'm kinda sure the emoticon denotes a semi-joke. No, SOO probs doesn't know how to read me as he's only seen me once as scum in the game he's referencing.

You're not wrecking face Amrun

___________________

Interested in Syry's reasoning on ffery scum.

Aaaaaand I tried to comprehend the past couple pages but I had a ridiculously long day an an interview so my mind is fried. I will get back to this tomorrow after work.

More of the same. You're dismissing a comment on you without comprehending it. I would say this is scummy of you, but it's probably null, since I know you freak out when someone votes you no matter what. But I'm not voting you, so it's a little extreme here...

Er I what? If you mean dismissing your comment, why yes I am. It's quite possibly one of the lamest comments you could make.

If you mean I'm dismissing SoO's comments, you are quite frankly misunderstanding my point. And in misunderstanding my point you made the lame appeal to buzzthority. I'm not freaking out on you, I think your comment is silly.

The first part of my response to SoO could only be read a as a thanks that someone is actually paranoid of me. The second part can only be read as a partial joke. (I say partial because yes it's obvious I'm town to anyone who knows how to read me, but not because SoO has no way of knowing that considering our only experience together is the scum game he's referring to in which he claimed it was pretty good.)

That you are applying a buzzword to that, which in the context of the game really makes no sense, was odd.

And that you actually replied to this without trying to see where I'm coming from is weird. Pretty sure I don't freak out when I'm voted as scum, and you know that, because you've seen me get voted as scum and not care at all, so don't give me that bs.

And I wouldn't care less if you voted me...let's see how much traction you get with that. What I'm pointing out is that you made a silly buzzword appeal to something you didn't understand. The fact that you can't understand that you misunderstood something is troubling.

[Tammy]

In the context of the game it DOES make sense. I DID understand it. It's not the first time you've done it this game. Dropping little hints here and there that if we were smart enough, if we KNEW YOUR META, we WOULD READ YOU AS TOWN. That's an appeal to authority -- it's not a "buzzword" and trying to dismiss it as such is silly. Even if you want to qualify it as a buzzword, that doesn't make it untrue.

And it wasn't a complaint I was making: I was saying that at first, when you made the comment, I didn't understand where you were coming from, but now, upon being remind of the game-that-shall-not-be-mentioned, I do, and that's okay, I get it, but I am reading now.

.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and I think limbs notwithstanding my posts should make that clear enough, that I never even came close to suggesting intelligence was synonymous with experience. I mean I'm pretty sure I thanked someone for being paranoid of me! And then said if they knew how to read me, smiley and all, that they'd see me as town here. I think, I'm not sure, but I think that denotes that if he'd seen me as town and as scum, as opposed to just the scum for which I'm thanking him for being paranoid of, would mean the difference. And I also think, though I'm not so sure, that me putting an emoticon at the end of it denotes me being in a bit of a humorous mood. But, feel free to come up with a buzzword for that too.

Oh and I think, the only people I've talked about me being town to were Matt and Syryana. I'm sure there's an appeal to something for each of those separately though if you think hard enough!

Oh, and sorry if this is news, Tammy, but you are WELL known flailing after votes as any alignment. It was actually a conversation at Balto Meet. I assumed this is something you would know about your play, but if not... Merry Christmas? I was saying that because it's something I would normally designate as scummy but I think it's more of a null tell for you.

I'm so super glad for you that you had a high school moment where you got to be in the in-crowd and discussing the ins and outs of others that aren't included. I really am. And I'm also super glad that you THINK this makes you santa. Do I, yes, get flustered when voted and suspected as town. Oh my gods that's news. If I pretend I don't know that, do I get presents? (I'd like a puppy.)

I couldn't care less what your null tell is on me. I care about my read on you, and what I find troubling is the lame comments you've made while catching up. The appeal to the buzzword was exceedingly silly, and there's really no reason for you, once I pointed out what I meant, for you not to understand that post I made. But instead you pulled the "you're not comprehending" when actually dear you're not comprehending. There was no appeal to buzzword there. There was no reason for you to see that you misunderstood not only my posts but syryana's posts to me as well.

But feel free to revel in your gossipy moments...I have better things to do...and if anyone catches me on here posting again, kick my ass. I have to be up in less than four hours

[Tammy]

VOTE: MattP

Will also vote implosion or hpleaves

Also heads up, I'm in the midst of preparing for an interview across the country next week. I will be around, but not that much.

[Tammy]

Protip: That's not helpful.

Who am I wrong about? Who do you suspect?

[Tammy]

So I'm just going to be useless this day phase. I have a long drive tomorrow, and if I have some time tomorrow night, I'll do something. I'm going to be in airports/on planes for a good bit on Wednesday and thought I could do something then, but deadline is early.

I'm finding some of the irony on this page amusing. Don't know if that's the right word though, haven't slept much...can barely think.

What I do know is that of all the tinfoil hats going on I think mine is the prettiest. I do think it's possible whimsy messed up the name of whom he was referring in his first post cuz Matt never said that. But I also think its possible that he attacked me for attacking his partner and he realized he messed up and that's why he flaked. He did make two posts on Sunday and did log in on Monday, but never came back here.

There are a couple things bothering me with amruns play but I can't quite put my finger on it, ill see if I can figure it out. It might not be alignment related though.

Will move to hpleaves though.

Townreads are: tierce, zdenek, probs Oversoul, probs syryana, probs fferyllt, probs katsuki.

[Tammy]

MY TINFOIL HAT WAS DECORATED WITH LOLCATZ!!!

So, this morning on my way to the airport I gave myself some solace that this game was going to be in night for two days, so I guess this is what instant night meant. Drrrrrrr.

I have way too much stuff to look through, but I still feel good about the town reads I have yesterday or the day before.

Anyway, I will probably vote implosion, cuz still like that scum read. Or is someone would like to point out a town read I should vote for again, cuz I'm doing pretty well on that. >_>

Stop looking at me. I barely slept for a week.

[Tammy]

Real quick on plane.

Realized what's bothering me about amrun. She seems to be selectively applying scumminess.

Mostly a reminder. Have to turn off phone now.

[Tammy]

Very very quickly skimmed.

There are two things I'm sure of in this game. Zdenek is town and tierce is town, and I want my bonnet back. I'm more sure of tierce. In fact I'll just cry if I'm wrong, that's how sure I am. And then empire can laugh at me and taunt me for not reading her right, but at least I was right about the dr who game and he was wrong so nanananana. But I very seriously doubt I'm wrong.

Anyway, I digress, and I'm now so sleep deprived my own thoughts don't make sense to me.

Syryana - I *might* be around for a little bit tonight. I just got done with a 5 hour interview, and am going to play tourist and relax a bit. If I don't immediately pass out, I might actually catch up tonight...otherwise I'll catch up tomorrow when I'm on planes/sitting in airports.

[Tammy]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

I've been waiting for this to get addressed organically, but now that Zdenek has asked, it's out of the bag.

Syryana, a town flip from hp should have increased your suspicion of ffery according to yesterday. It didn't. I want to know why.

(For the record, I was going to vote ffery out of the gate today but decided I wanted to watch this develop instead without influencing it.)

I have some recent posts to review but I'm too tired.

*TWITCH*

I'm not really here. Apparently one of my flights is delayed tomorrow and their automated system doesn't know better than to NOT call at 4am. Night where I finally get sleep? Just kidding.

OS's reasoning for suspecting tierce is kinda silly, but I think it makes him more likely town. I think anyway, maybe. I'll try to sort it out tomorrow, which apparently I'll have more time to do sitting in airports.

I'll answer katsukis question then too. Until then...cupcakes.

[Tammy]

Real quick on plane.

Realized what's bothering me about amrun. She seems to be selectively applying scumminess.

Mostly a reminder. Have to turn off phone now.

It does seem to be what she is doing.

I can't tell if you're legit intimately agreeing with me or subtly fanning suspicion.

I don't have a whole lot of time or brain power, but where I was going with this was just an odd feeling of where amrun seemed to be buddying up to people/making really weird and awkward attacks.

Also, as an aside, or maybe not really, can I say how much I absolutley detest the inclusion of so many words capitalized int he middle of sentences? Don't look at me that way. I know it's meant for emphasis, but it doesn't feel like its done organically. Like its meant to show force for an argument she doesn't believe but wants people to think she does because capital letter deniote FEELING.

I also hate the "you do this as both alignments". For one when it was used on me, it was so laughable in that she has no idea what she's talking about but acted like she knew me better than I know me. I mean I know she this she's Santa, but any perusal of my scum games shows she doesn't have a clue.

And that brings me to her attacking me for appeal to buzzthority for something she clearly didn't understand but refused to acknowledge. But note, that zach was using a similar argument with Me and tierce. He asked tierce how well she knew his meta. When I started to doubt my town read he told me to go back and reread our game when he was scum to see the difference. What did amrun think about zach? Could not be more obviously town.

She criticizes tierce for selective reading, but doesn't realize that she's done the same thing. This just could denote lack of self-awareness and a need to not be seen as misunderstanding, but I digress.

Her argument with tierce bugged me in a gut level. Tierce was self metaing on why some things she was doing made her more likely town. What's her response? To say that the more It makes her look town the less sure she believes it. Let's see who else was self metaing and saying their behavior made them more likely town? Oh Matt. Did amrun have a problem with that? Nope, Matt was super town.

I hated the post in which she suggested voting ffery at the start of day would be an influence. I might have to check, but I really don't see anyone in this game just following amrun, so I don't get where this heightened sense of ego is come from, and it reads fake. Also, syryana made it quite clear that he still suspected ffery, but Matt flipping town put a wrench in part of his read on her. I mean it's right there. I'm barely following the game and am on such a severe lack of sleep it's not even funny, and I caught that.

I also don't like her recent vote for ffery. I think that ffery is more likely town, and it looks to me like she's trying to distract from an implosion or a katsuki lynch. (I'm not sure about a katsuki scum read though.)

Okay so some of this might not be alignment relevant. It just may be that aspects of her playstyle bug me and I'm reading her as fake and attempting to force her way into a,leadership position as scummy. I don't think I've ever played a full game with her, so I wouldn't know, and unlike amrun I don't pretend to know someone's meta when I clearly don't, so it could just be things I need to grow accustomed to, but I do think there are lots of scummy elements to her play.

I don't even know if that made sense. I think my plane is finally about to start boarding, so I'll have to wait to get to some more of this later.

[Tammy]

Very very quickly skimmed.

There are two things I'm sure of in this game. Zdenek is town and tierce is town, and I want my bonnet back. I'm more sure of tierce. In fact I'll just cry if I'm wrong, that's how sure I am. And then empire can laugh at me and taunt me for not reading her right, but at least I was right about the dr who game and he was wrong so nanananana. But I very seriously doubt I'm wrong.

Anyway, I digress, and I'm now so sleep deprived my own thoughts don't make sense to me.

Syryana - I *might* be around for a little bit tonight. I just got done with a 5 hour interview, and am going to play tourist and relax a bit. If I don't immediately pass out, I might actually catch up tonight...otherwise I'll catch up tomorrow when I'm on planes/sitting in airports.

Why are they town... I dunno about Zdenek but I disagree with tierce.

OkAy apparently I'm hearing things and have a little more time.

Zdenek just reads town.

Tierce just is town.. The only thing that made me wonder about tierce was an early town read from her. I remember in yoloville her being a little more cautious giving both empire and me town reads and here it was quite quick. But like tierce I think my scum and town play are worlds apart, and she's seen me as scum before and as town a lot. There was also the early appeal to me to see her as town. That "hi, Tammy, can you hurry up and recognize the obvious so we can work together" read really really town. It's just something that I don't think she'd say as scum the way she did, or how she did with zach when she insisted she was bleeding towniness. She knows that I have a tendency to get paranoid of people, even friends and people I can read well late game and I think as scum shed go about appealing to me Ina different way or maybe not at all. And her statement that she'd kill me I think is true. It's true that I'm not really active and quite distracted, but when I am like this I tend to focus on people I can read well and go from there, so me not being active right now wouldn't be a reason to leave me alive especially when I'm alive to late game I tend to start scrutinizing everything. I also thought the "I dreamt Tammy took back her town read on me, no dream bonnet for her" read really genuine. I doubt very seriously she's partnered with antagon anyway, her self meta makes sense. She's not a sloppy player and knows when to cut ties with a partner, and why wouldn't she an unroled? It makes no sense to be sloppy so you can self meta, when she could have grabbed town cred by bussing at a good time, and tierce is smart enough to know when to do that.

Okay that was a lot of rambling to explain a town read that's not in danger.

I'll keep reading until my plane lands. I still plan to vote implosion, but I need to do something other than quickly skim before I lay down that vote.

I wish I had more time and had been paying more attention earlier, and I know I said I'd vote hpleaves but some of the reasoning for him being scum was complete trash. I can't believe someone actually argued that he was distancing himself from his own opinions by using another players tell. That's complete bs.

[Tammy]

Heck, I'm going to PaizoCon in a week

J.E.A.L.O.U.S.

[Tammy]

Actually

VOTE: implosion

[Tammy]

I can't stay awake another second, but I'd like to know what katsuki, amrun and ffery think they're doing with their non votes or votes that aren't doing anything. Like the amrun post and then case on ffery when it had no traction is bs.

If I wake up before deadline I guess I'll change it. Don't like that implosion also voted soo instead of a main wagon. Too.

Sllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppppp

[Tammy]

Okay I see. I was thinking ffery was the most likely to go through if not Katsuki. Didn't forsee it veering onto implosion butttttt y'know things happen. I had a fairly strong townread on implosion anyway.

I didn't realize quite how close deadline was last night when I posted -- thought I'd have time to check in this morning.

I feel like I've maybe missed some posts where this wagon started.

Do you realize that the first time you mentioned implosion was the one before this when you said you didn't know why he was lynched. So people all of yesterday were mentioning voting implosion. I've said I suspect him since day one, and you held onto your fairly strong town read?

I either just really don't understand your play style or your mafia.

[Tammy]

I normally hate mass claims, but something is bugging me, and I'm considering that it might be a good idea right now.

[Tammy]

Implosion was a last minute deadline lynch and nothing but. I looked over his wagon, and only a few people had real conviction on it, soo being one. I didn't expect the deadline lynch to converge onto him; I expected katsuki but hoped for ffery.

I didn't say he was a universal townread. I said I had a townread on him. It wasn't something to write home about, but I wasn't remotely interested in lynching him. I'm not sure why you have a scum read on him is relevant to my read of anyone at all, including implosion.

I never said you said he was a universal town read, I said you said he was a fairly strong town read.

Ummm...mafia is kind of a team game. And town have the best chance of winning when they figure out a way to work together. It makes it harder for people to work together when you sit back with a fairly strong town read, that you never mention, while several people mention their willingness to vote for your town read.

So again I either don't understand your playstyle at all or your mafia.

[Tammy]

How many scum do people think are in the game?

If three remain, we should no lynch.

Probably four. We started with 15 right? When we played in yoloville, vi assumed there would be four scum in that game, so I would assume that's what he would go with. Although I suppose the instant night mechanic could have made him go one less.

Yeah that's a bit of rambling to say I don't know.

[Tammy]

I still think that ffery is town. Syryana your scum read on ffery is reminding me of in th dinner party when you went after someone day one for not doing something you expected them to do.

Amruns reason for voting ffery is silly and I think she's the one who voted hpleaves for that crapass reason that he was distancing himself from his read by using someone else's tell, so this makes me wonder about her.

Pedit: amrun that isn't true, several people mentioned their willingness to vote implosion. And I'm not accusing you of causing the lynch or anything. It just strikes me as odd that you had this town read, that several people mentioned being willing to vote, he was on Matt's list that was being talked about, and still never voiced your opinion, until after he was lynched. That's bothering me.

[Tammy]

I'm considering going for katsuki and Sheeping tierce from yesterday.

Okay the car service people would probably like me to get out of their service area now. I might have some time today to do something, otherwise it will be later tomorrow night when I finally get home.

Pedit: when zach died I pondered that same thing. Okay bye.

Oh feeling better about amrun.

[Tammy]

Remember how I said I'd get back to this tonight when I got home? Yeah, no. After a week full of delayed flights and interview stress, my car broke down 200 miles away from home. Me and mafia? Not happening.

I normally don't have time for mafia on Mondays, but I will make sure I make some time for this game tomorrow since deadline is so early Tuesday morning though.

Something is still bothering me about the claims, but I'll wait to sort it out until tomorrow when popcorn is done.

Also, I'm growing quite suspicious of SoO. Last night I read through Antagon while trying to sleep and he mentioned him as null twice and only interacted with him concerning the Amrun slot being town. I know he didn't interact with many people, but I think this is suspicious. Also, implosion made some good points about SoO before he died. I was horribly wrong about him, but maybe he was right about SoO. I kind of feel like I put SoO in my blind spot because of him showing a little paranoia of me. Anyway this is mostly here for some feedback and a reminder to myself to look at this some more tomorrow.

Syryana - I'm not *convinced* ffery is town, I just think she is. I said before that there were only two things I felt sure of in this game and that was Zdenek and Tierce being town, with Tierce being who I was most certain of. I'm not really sure about your reasonings for sheeping me over Tierce. You said that Tierce had bad reads this game, but she didn't have any worse reads than me. My vote has been on town this entire game, so I'm not sure why my reads seemed better to you than Tierce's. Not only that but I have been admittedly very distracted since mid day one and haven't been giving my full attention to the game. And since we're disagreeing on ffery, why do you trust my judgment?

I have some work to do before I crash, so I'll keep an eye if I'm popcorned to so I don't hold things up. If you want me to claim in the meantime, please let me know. I can't promise being able to check this thread and do anything tomorrow until I get home from work.

[Tammy]

I only have a minute before I head to work.

Real quick: This bothers me. Amrun had the big theory that hpleaves was part of a second scum team that had used the ghost vote on Antagon to save hpleaves, but now she throws out that she had a little theory that there could be a vig. The second post also feels like an afterthought. As if she realized that this doesn't make sense with the theory she was pushing the day before.

Also it doesn't matter so i can say it now: I had a let theory that if there was a vig, he could be it. But I didn't want to call attention to that so i stayed quiet. I wasn't really convinced he was town especially since there was no way to know if there WAS a vig, but on the off chance I was right, I wasn't wanting to lynch him.

So as you can see my town read on him increased between the time hp was alive and the time hp became dead.

Syry - I talked about why I thought ffery was more likely town before. I think the part of your case that makes the most sense is the read on mrbungle/hpleaves. But, I think using scum meta from popcorn mafia is dangerous as the popcorn scum game is not the same as other games. I've played as scum in that format and I played quite differently than I usually do, other than telling my partners to bus me day one that is.

Anyway, I'll get back to this tonight when I get home from work.

[Tammy]

Yes, Amrun, and if you will look day two my suspicion of implosion dropped. When I realized I was wrong about that, he was again my suspect.

I am Serene from Riviera: The Promised Land. It mentions that I followed my friend Fia, but that's probably flavor and not indicative of Fia actually being here. I'm VT.

[Tammy]

I never knew there was a second scumteam. I THOUGHT there was..

I never said you knew there was... I said your big theory was... What happens when you read posts?

[Tammy]

Indeed, Fia is here.

Skimming for the win!

[Tammy]

I did not like Katsuki being active from the start of the game where in the recent past, all I have known him to be is a lurker who continuely avoids prods to stay in the game without ever really investing himself.

I just checked back because I remembered this differently, but he was pretty active in mafia behind the maiden. Not overly so, but he definitely didn't just prod dodge his way through the game.

[Tammy]

Tammy – I wanted to re-read Tammy again but I’ve run out of time…her interactions with everyone did look pretty genuine..
I did notice here that she keeps saying “if you knew me, you’d know I’m town” ..in the Abarat game when she was scum, she shied away from statements like that…so there is that…although not sure of what I think about her claim with the “following Fia” flavor, and saying that its not indicative of whether or not Fia is in the game, especially after Zdenek had just claimed Fia…

Yeah, that looks bad, but I'd like to think I have a little more pride than to make a fake dumb tell like that. It's actually called I was eating lunch, getting ready for work, and skimming the thread for anything that had to do with me at the same time and it didn't register when Zdenek suggested I claim. If it did register, I would have mentioned that I was suppose to keep him safe but was given no way to actually do that.

[Tammy]

I'm going to sleep, and I want to hear what syryana has to say about ffery first as I think he's wrong. And I want antagon to give his role name. His claim and the way he made it doesn't make sense.

Why did you ask that?
From your own PM it should be apparent that role names aren't given.

I'm going to sleep, and I want to hear what syryana has to say about ffery first as I think he's wrong. And I want antagon to give his role name. His claim and the way he made it doesn't make sense.

Why did you ask that?
From your own PM it should be apparent that role names aren't given.

From my role PM it's apparent that role names *are* given. A mix of named and unnamed roles?

Now that you both claimed vanilla, I'm pretty confused by both of these responses.

I took this to mean that you were both roled or else how would you know that role names weren't given/were given.

[Tammy]

how many themed games have you played ffery?

[Tammy]

No, I meant here. Rainbowdash would be your character/universe name whereas vanilla town would be your role/ability (or lack of as it were).

So for instance SoO has claimed Kirby, but that's not his role. His inhale ability is his role or ability.

[Tammy]

So this is as far as Antagon got and is his latest reads:

AS OF PAGE 8:
Town:
Zdenek
Syryana
Pjovek Amrun

Tierce

Tammy

MattP
enomis
implosion

Null/leaning town:

Zachrulez

fferyllt

Null:
Everyone else

My edit: Not listed here is Sword of Omens or Oversoul

Null/leaning scum:
Katsuki

Scum:

mrbungle

--------------

I looked through some of Antagon's games and the only completed scum game I found of his was a newbie game a few months ago where he started out with his partner as null and then bussed pretty hard over something silly. But, it's a newbie game, and a sample size of one, so it wasn't of much help. (Empire, do you see this, are you happy? I used to be a no-meta happy little chic, and then you started making me read people's games.)

Now that Tierce is gone Zdenek is my strongest town read, and we're paired anyway. It would just be cruel of Vi to tell me I followed my evil friend Fia here.

I still like Syryana for town based on our early dance, and some of his reactions to people. I did wonder a little bit about syryana based on his case on ffery as it felt in nature like his case on dgb in nightless. This one isn't a super strong read though.

I'm iffy on Amrun still. I know that OS called her role probs the town pr, but I can also see it as a scum role. I don't know. I go back and forth on her a couple times a day. Some of her posts just don't sit well with me, but then I think that sometimes she'd be more careful as scum. Also the last time we played together and she was scum she lurked like crazy, but then she was also going through a hard time in life so that might not be a good meta tell for her. (pedit: I had that same thought about Tarh being a traditional scum role, it was in M. behind the Maiden, but I didn't have the time or energy to do a meta search to see if it always is.)

I'm still leaning town on ffery. That convoluted reason for why she was townreading pjovek/Amrun is something that I don't really expect from scum. And she just reads town to me.

I'm most concerned with the two that aren't mentioned by Antagon at all. I would normally expect scum to mention his partners, but he did list Sword as a read earlier and left him off of this list. That makes me worry, though his last reads list and post read kinda townish to me. His role does read kinda eh, but if it is something that may or may not work then it might be more town than not? I don't know here.

I go back and forth on Oversoul too. I really didn't like his early play which was more mechanical than not. I know he explained it, but meh, Fortnight wasn't too long ago and how much are you really able to change your playstyle. Just some things rub me the wrong way. He felt like he was trying to feign paranoia of Tierce earlier. I don't like the early town read for Matt still. I still don't see how Matt was "gambitting" earlier and he didn't do anything of his usual town Matt play until mid day two for OS to call him town from his first 3 posts. Early town reads for nearly no reason always bug me, especially when they are strong players who aren't acting as town as they can.

And Katsuki - Katsuki reads town to me, but my two strongest town reads suspect him, and that makes me go hrm.

Basically, I suck. I dont' have a handle on this game, and I can find a reason for why every single person here is town, and reasons for why a handful might be scum.

Here is the type of fence I'm building by the way:

[Tammy]

Tammy, in your role pm does it say that we travelled here together or anything else about our relationship?

No, it just says that I followed you here to make sure you're all right and now I'm in the midst of a fight. I have icy scythes but they don't do anything.

[Tammy]

Good job scum team! Congratulations.

I'm sorry I was such a fence sitting sack at the end. If I hadn't been just out of time and sleep, maybe I'd have had a bit more confidence in my leaning scum reads. I had a really good time playing with you all and hope to play with you again.

I'm sorry implosion and Matt for wrongly scum reading you. Well mostly implosion. I really hesitated on my Matt read but was paranoid from eggplant's first post.

Thanks for modding it Vi!

[Tammy]

Dead QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/BY7wrEdab9K9