Death's Diner -Game Over-

[Titus]

Slandaar, my gut tells me that was not random.

VOTE: oriole

[Titus]

Yeah another vote without a reason....

[Titus]

Nah, Xx MLG_Stubbs_360NOVOTEZ xX already had a vote on me.

I'm suspicious of the Slandaar vote, though. Who puts three votes on someone in RVS?

- 小龍

Don't forget stubbs's fourth.

[Titus]

5 votes already

Yeah I realized Stubbs wasn't a fourth. Paranoia suggests Stubbs is lyncher and Slandaar is scum.

[Titus]

I never once said voting for jabarkas was scummy. I choose you because you were the latest person on that wagon when I wanted info.

I object to the idea that I was "pretending to be clueless." There was no pretending involved as there were no clues in existence, thus i, wait for it... FUCKING ASKED FOR SOME.

I like this here. There is no rationale for this train this early.

[Titus]

Vote: Amrun

For not being around lately...

Slandaar, my gut tells me that was not random.

VOTE: oriole

Random votes with no reason.

Yeah another vote without a reason....

If you are town and vote without reason and then others do, there is literally no reason to question it (you are town who did it so why wouldn't other town) also realise he is saying 'another vote' which means mine was included which he posted after with no reasoning. Why would he do that if he believes they should be explained?

Nah, Xx MLG_Stubbs_360NOVOTEZ xX already had a vote on me.

I'm suspicious of the Slandaar vote, though. Who puts three votes on someone in RVS?

- 小龍

Don't forget stubbs's fourth.

Weird kind of encouragement 'get those guys!' while not doing anything himself; where is his vote?

5 votes already

Yeah I realized Stubbs wasn't a fourth. Paranoia suggests Stubbs is lyncher and Slandaar is scum.

Why isn't Jabs scum again? why is he even thinking a lyncher is in the game? Why are we not just both scum? Doesn't make any sense to be assuming what he is.

I don't know if Jabs is scum or not yet. Given the urge to lynch him and the game hasn't really started, I'd go with town for now.

Also, my posts were saying paranoia suggests Stubbs was lyncher and you were scum. Stubbs was posting that he was voting Varsoon artificially inflating the count to those who weren't watching closely. Paranoia on you because you seem to really want Jabs lynched.

Random votes are not votes with no reason. They are random in order to start the game. Reasonless votes are suspect, no matter how many are on the train.

You over reacted for a mental note where even I said I was paranoid.

VOTE: Slandaar

[Titus]

@Zoidberg: Yeah, I do. You can be dense and ignore the facts but in all ~5 games I've claimed my alignment, I haven't lied about it.

No, dense would be if I just took your word for it and acted as though you were conftown, even though this game is predicated on deception.

You said it yourself: every game, people will be wondering if you're breaking the pattern this time. I absolutely don't understand people willing to give you a pass just because you said you were town.

This is accurate as well. The hydra still must be analyzed but people jumping on the train so early appear equally unwilling to analyze. Jabs isn't confirmed town OR scum, he just is.

[Titus]

Oh Pegrine, your vote is just stupid.

[Titus]

Titus: Your post is wrong on so many fucking levels.

You ignored my question like 20 times just to answer Slandaar. You're defending someone out the ass without the balls to call them town.

Ps, reasonless rvs votes are not even remotely scummy, but that's probably not alignment irrelevant, just so wrong it hurts.

VOTE: Titus

There is no such thing as a reasonless RVS vote. RVS votes have a reason by definition.

I also did answer your question. I'm not DEFENDING Jabs. I'm saying he should be analyzed before we act.

[Titus]

allow town to ignore you too because the people that matter have already townread me

That's bullshit.

My vote on oriole was RVS, thus not reasonless like I defined. Third and forth votes are not random and thus need a reason to be done.


Also Slandaar, who voted who first has no bearing on whether your reaction to my comment about paranoid people might find you as scum was an overreaction or not. I didn't say you OMGUSed.

@Jabs, that was a good case against Rofl

VOTE: Roflcopter

[Titus]

when titus flips scum i'm right back on zoidbeg

When Titus flips town and the town gets revenge, we all laugh.

[Titus]

My vote on oriole was RVS, thus not reasonless like I defined. Third and forth votes are not random and thus need a reason to be done.

Ugh

So, you just have literally no clue what RVS is, I will reread this tomorrow I need to relook at stuff; RVS does not mean pure random. 3rd and 4th are (probably) not random by definition of the word random but they don't mean the people making them want a lynch either, however, by making wagons you get more information from pressure and reactions than everyone voting purely at random because that accomplishes exactly nothing.

For example, what did your vote do? exactly; nothing. /lesson.

A purely random vote may usually do that. Mafia are the ones who jump for no logical reason. You claim reaction fishing but a seasoned player will not have a reaction to that many votes. It too is pointless. However, my votes seem to get the game going and scum are likely thinking easy mislynch. Well, not this game. Scum will pay if y'all lynch me. I'm not afraid. Bring it on.

[Titus]

Sorry if jerkbus upsets you... I'll stop that, then. I was just being silly, with that.

I haven't turned a blind eye to anything. Bro's defending you is null-to-townish. He's putting his own neck on the line to defend you, with reasoning.

Who do you think rofl is sheeping/buddying? Me? Rofl is town, so I really don't care. When town agree with each other, that's what they do.

Titus, on the other hand, has done the following things:

-Discouraged early productivity more than anyone else
-Acted like three votes on you was significant, actively discouraged a wagon on you
-Did this while not having a read on you
-Says you should be analyzed while ignoring that analysis can't happen in a vacuum, and the wagon was the best way to analyze you
-When called out for the above, responded by saying a seasoned player wouldn't respond to three votes anyway

Which is it -- is three votes a wagon building too fast, or a pittance a seasoned player wouldn't react to anyway?

His thought process does not make sense. Discouraging quick rvs wagons without actually calling the target town is something scum do for towncred, just like they go, "Oh no, gais!! Don't put him at L-1 because scum might quick hammer!!"

P-edit: Zoidberg seems to have conviction, which counts for something. Other than that, he's meh.

I'll always discourage pointless wagons and encourage analysis. You are confonding stoping moronic wagons with stopping all discussion. You seem to think wagons are always good. I do not. I wasn't about to think that anyone was going to quick hammer but if someone piles on a wagon, even one I agree with, I will want to know why.

You had to ask me 20 times for something... no. I was out in the morning and I happened to reply to all the questions I saw.

[Titus]

No, it can't be both. The thought processes don't gel.

And Titus has stated he was not defending you because you were town, though he stated a minor town read on you. I had to ask him about 20 times to get a response at all.

Three votes will never be significant. Ever.

Jabarkas will quote this when it only takes three votes to lynch.

Obviously, I meant "in this context," but if taking my valid points and making them ridiculous floss your boat, then knock yourself out.

Jabarkas' point was that votes are always significant to Jabarkas. Is three votes as significant as ten? No, but it's still three votes on Jabarkas without much reason - Jabarkas thinks Jabarkas is allowed to call something like that into question.

It isn't as weird for you to call it into question, though it's still pretty jittery. We're not talking about you, though.

The group will talk about what it wants to talk about. Why are you wanting to steer the conversation this early?

[Titus]

I wasn't controlling the conversation by asking what the justification on Jabs was. I didn't stop anyone from voting him. Nice misrep and AtE.

No. I haven't been to Rome although I wouldn't be surprised if the name dates back that far.

[Titus]

You absolutely did. You did your very best to discredit that wagon, and claiming anything else is completely disingenuous.

Another appeal to emotion. Titus is a hypocrite and disingenuous. Come on. Use logic. You were at least trying before. I asked for the rationale behind it. That's all.

[Titus]

Claiming someone is disingenuous because you don't see the world as they do IS an appeal to emotion. There is no proof at all because I am telling the truth in how I acted and why I acted. Ad hominem is a near perfect example of an AtE.

[Titus]

How is "We're not talking about you!" not an attempt to steer conversation? Again, it's pretty textbook that Amrun wanted to talk about me and got pissed when Jabs cut in.

I'm not discouraging a wagon by highlighting that there's no basis for the wagon. I am encouraging analysis. If someone analyzes JM's posts and votes him, I don't give a rat's ass. I don't deal well with stupid sheep though.

[Titus]

No, I was saying he was responding to a point that was made about you, and the point isn't universally the same for everyone. I didn't tell him to stop talking about anything at all.

Yes, you are discouraging a wagon by chainsawing anyone on it and discrediting it. That's literally the definition of discouraging a wagon.

I didn't chainsaw everyone on it. I said I wanted analysis evidence, but there is no evidence Jabs is scum so y'all get pissy. Wagon without evidence is stupid. Almost any other wagon is good for the town as there's something to analyze.

[Titus]

You literally accused someone of being a lyncher for the sole son of voting for him when he had like 3 votes early day 1.

Bzzt. Try again.

No I didn't. I said if someone was paranoid, they could say Stubbs was lyncher. I didn't accuse him. If I accuse someone of something, it will be pretty clear. Also I never voted Stubbs who was the guy I postulated may be lyncher.

Try again on your misrep.

[Titus]

Yeah, just because you said it in a way that diffused responsibility doesn't actually mean you didn't say it.

It seems like you're not understanding. You've made your points. I've responded. Let's not get this thread bogged down any further. I will respond to further questions if you want to keep tunneling.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: VOTE: titus

horrible play is horrible.

It's not horrible play to call a spade a spade. I've even already soft claimed borderline hard claimed because I could see the tunnel happening.

[Titus]

Omg

I can't read it anymore

I want it dead so bad I can taste it

Yeah and if you're such a great player, you should be able to figure out what I am... bonus if you can figure out the benefit I can give to someone ELSE.

[Titus]

Ps pr soft claims at like 4 votes are p much always scum. I thought that wasn't enough votes to make a good player sweat?

No. I said seasoned players don't sweat. I on the other hand, am not. I also want to draw people, get reactions so I know how to act. Unfortunately, your tunnel isn't helping because I can't get reactions.

[Titus]

Wy would my tunnel stop you from getting reactions?

Because no one else is talking about anyone else but me. No matter, I've just made my final decisions with my role. I had to in order to get this moving. Let's just say, it's enough to make someone's head go BOOM!

[Titus]

Yeah and if you're such a great player, you should be able to figure out what I am... bonus if you can figure out the benefit I can give to someone ELSE

Yeah, see apparently y'all just aren't seeing the obvious. I'm doing what Varsoon would call straight up level 1 play. That's ok, I'd rather have more scum to choose from on a Day 1 wagon anyway if I am getting lynched.

[Titus]

Quick scan indicates you have 6 votes. Seems a little early for heavy hinting.

What's the meta on claiming where you've played in the past?

Three quarters of the way to a lynch seems fine enough to me to reveal the fact I've soft claimed but not claim all the way.

On the other site I'm on, it's very context dependent on when to claim. I'm just using my claims as a method of telling scum to back off and seeing if it works. Around the time I first hinted, the S guy backed off my train. Everyone wondered why. He even quoted my first soft claim sorta in post 210 when he unvoted me.


@Amrun, I don't think the world revolves around me. I like observing reactions much better from a "fly on the wall" "no horse in the outcome" perspective.

[Titus]

Tiphane? Radioactive, really? Are you still in RVS?

[Titus]

I think the host would have told us if someone shot you Tiphane. You might want to look again and see if you're failing to understand something.

[Titus]

I love you too but my head is about to explode with frustration right now.

[Titus]

That's the response I expected Tiphane! Thank you.

[Titus]

Sorry it took me a bit, I'm thick sometimes.

VOTE: Jabbasoon3rdpersonspeakingorcman

I might as well be speaking in German in this thread. Why are you voting Jabs though?

[Titus]

aright, which one of you stupid fucks just tried to vig me, fess up.

Nope, didn't draw that role again.

But I would like to give a high five to whoever tried. (

don't you dare claim

)

P.Edit: Awww....

Why do you think Tiphane is scum?

[Titus]

Mod: Has anyone been shot?

I didn't shoot anyone.

[Titus]

Titus straight up said he fucking softclaimed already. Looking at his ISO, he hasn't softclaimed shit that you should be able to confirm. Hell, even Titus' crumbs contradict each other.

I didn't crumb using the initials or anything like that. A level one play means I straight up told you what I will do. You're not understanding what I'm doing because you don't understand me. I don't do subtle.

I was hoping Tiphane could do subtle but instead he starts yelling stuff that isn't true because he didn't understand. Then he figures it out and also doesn't do a subtle walkback.

[Titus]

Not hating. Like I said, I'm not good at subtle either.

[Titus]

I'm not sure if that's scum or excited overreaching.

Jarbarkas is acting like a hydra that I expected the Varsoon I just ended Xenogears with. He was town there, and while I don't like using meta, I'm fairly sure he's Town here too.

J 58--I'm pretty sure she's being stubborn.

PV 65/AA 66--WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN.. Also, AA, if you claim Supersaint I will probably flip a table.

No, no, I'm sure rofl has a point in voting you, TD.

Amrun 75--not that what I'm saying it's excusable, but Xenogears is a good example, this is how Varsoon plays. I'm expecting him to pull some kind of reaction tell gambit that won't really work next.

AA 89--You rolled scum this game, didn't you? You and Stubbs entire play style indicates not trying. And at this juncture of the game, NOT TRYING isthe biggest scum tell I get.

Requote for ISO.

Why would you expect AA to claim Super Saint?

[Titus]

You should read it. It's quite dramatic.

[Titus]

Woah I missed that one.

Yeah that one is bad too. EDDIE YOU WERE SCUM PARTNERS WITH VARSOON YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

VOTE: EddieFenix

??? What's this about?

[Titus]

I generally don't like very early walls. They almost always look like fake scumhunting.

[Titus]

??? What's this about?

Eddie was scumbuddies with Varsoon in a game that ended recently.

So he should know better.

So he should know that this isn't Varsoon's usual scum play?

[Titus]

Titus - Town
Rift Adrift - Town
Zoidberg - Town

Slandaar - Town/Null
Brosiden - Town/Null
Amrun - Town/Null

Ghost - Null
elvis - Null
Oriole - Null
PeregrineV - Null
AA9 - Null
StubbsKVM - Null
Baezu - Null

R. Wolf - Null/Scum

Rofl - Scum
Jabarkas Mayonnaise (hydra) - Scum


TD - town/null/scum? (My brain right now... Fuckin hurts worse from reading... Damn Pg.14...)

If this game moves at 16 pages again in a matter of 12 hrs before I can read it, I will flip/cut bitches.

Please answer why for each of these.

[Titus]

You really should read. I would give you a much different interpretation than amren would. There was fosing over bad voting. The train turned to me. A day event occured. I have already hinted at my role, both halves.

[Titus]

hmm. Ok.

Also, who the fuck FOSes??

I just meant that as suspicions were stated and people were voted.

I have also FoSed from time to time.

[Titus]

Titus, you didn't give me your reason to vote for oriole.

Post 184.

[Titus]

However, my votes seem to get the game going and scum are likely thinking easy mislynch. Well, not this game. Scum will pay if y'all lynch me. I'm not afraid. Bring it on.

Show me where one of your random votes achieved something.

RVS is a method of getting the game going. My vote in this game tells me Stubbs isn't reading with any sort of eye for detail.

[Titus]

Can one of you fine gentlemen be a dear and lay out the case on Titus for Jabarkas?
I'm not quite seeing it as compelling that this moment, and I'd hate for you all to have a ball and for me to miss out it.

-V

Translation: I want to get on this wagon, but I don't have a case, so can somebody make this easy for me to sheep this wagon.

Other Translation: There's no real case on Titus and I am being polite as fuck. Fine gentleman was likely sarcastic.


@Stubbs, The oriole vote was an RVS vote, a random vote to get the game going. I have said this many times in the thread.

[Titus]

@elvis, Sorry but that's deliberate. I would rather have two confirmed town than one. If one dies, the other will be near conf-town. Note: This is not masons.

@amrun, there still is no case. I don't trust players to be smart day 1. I am not a very seasoned player. However, I am logical and know when something's illogical. I have zero sway with illogical players.

[Titus]

@Stubbs, RVS votes can be reasonless.

[Titus]

RVS votes have a reason to get the game going, not a you're scummy reason.

[Titus]

Not dodging you are having a major comprehension and game theory fail.

[Titus]

You're saying your RVS vote is not without reason and you don't want to give me the reason.

RVS IS THE REASON!

[Titus]

Sometimes RVS succeeds. Sometimes it fails. The original Jabs vote was likely RVS. RVS is a method. A single RVS vote doesn't likely move the game from RVS by itself.

[Titus]

@elvis, Sorry but that's deliberate. I would rather have two confirmed town than one. If one dies, the other will be near conf-town. Note: This is not masons.

You want us all to believe that three of the players who are highest in suspicion are town for reasons you can't explain?

I don't really care about Jabs. If you don't believe me lynch me today. I have done a day event to Tiphane. It wasn't a shot. I don't know why he thought that. Too many games?

If I answer directly, it will neuter half of my role. I will claim directly at L-1.

[Titus]

You're saying your RVS vote is not without reason and you don't want to give me the reason.

RVS IS THE REASON!

But you argued up and down that rvs votes aren't reasonless, and making reasonless votes was scummy according to you.

You can't define something with its definition. You can't say, "the reason for an rvs vote is rvs, and that's fine, but your rvs vote had no reason neener neener neener!"

Trying to discredit me and my case by calling it illogical is pretty farcical. Most of the game agreed it was logical, but you are obviously the only arbiter of logikz round these parts, right? Still not trying to control the conversation, right?

Naked sheeping is bad and should be called out. That is moving the game forward, not backward. The third and fourth votes aren't random.

[Titus]

vote: titus

Another vote of convience robocop?

[Titus]

Third and forth votes on a wagon are NOT RVS! They are opportunistic.

[Titus]

vote: titus

Another vote of convience robocop?

Titus, discrediting machine!

The dude's voted 5 times.


My random vote has lead to this discussion Slandaar.

[Titus]

Slandaar, I guess the group and I are having a fundamental disagreement on what the rules are for RVS. Not worth dwelling on right now.

Elvis wanted a summary to catch up.

Radioactive Wolf needs some pressure. He left a vote on Tiphane with no reason and then left. If someone says that is playstyle too, I will scream. I do not have meta on most of you.

Rift seems like he wanted a reason for you unvote. Not seeing anything scummy there yet.

VOTE: Radioactive Wolf

[Titus]

@Slandaar – I did reread but I still don't get why their FoS or why my actions would have deterred anything legitimate. Usually when I encounter facts or suggestions that alter my view of things it takes me awhile to work out the cognitive dissonance. This is one of the pros to this site as to my other site with 24 hour days. On that site decisions must be made fast and with certainty.

I don't like how sheepy Varsoon head is being. He says every other post is good.

[Titus]

@Jabs Something about an exchange? Good enough? I'm rusty on this topic but I know what you're getting at.

Ok so this is the exact sequence of events.

TD Thought he someone had tried to vig him. He thought this because he assumed that the person who activated their role wouldn't know exactly what it did. It turns out that person, Titus, knew exactly what it did, and did not try to vig me.

This is what TD realized, causing TD to believe that Titus is conf town.

Then TD looked through Jabs post and saw scum, wrote up a case and voted Jabs.

Then TD looked through Jabs posts again for more ammunition saw a crumb, and realized that TD had role related information that told him the role jabs crumbed was town.

Then TD threw his hands up in the air at the cluster fuck he had created because his two top scum suspects were confirmed town via role related info even though they look horribly scummy on the surface.

Then TD thought about voting roflcopter again, and decided that because of meta, rofl is unlikely to be scum.

Then TD put a vote on salandar because he looks scummy.

Whatever is going on here, I doubt it can be 100% alignment indicative in all cases. That would be a bitch to balance.

I cannot do what I did again. It's a one time deal.

[Titus]

I can go for Bazeru. His behavior seems similar enough to Wolf's.

VOTE: Bazeru

[Titus]

@Zoidberg, I understand your frustration but that would actually greatly hinder what I did for a direct explanation. The fact I did anything wasn't meant to be obvious at all, but TD misread something or got his games backwards exposing that I indeed did something and it was not shooting.

[Titus]

Tiphane, I'm not really seeing a scum claim there.

Zoidberg, I know. If I had a way of messaging only to tell town, I would.

[Titus]

It seems just as easy to interpret that Stubbs thought Jabs's answer was a copout on who Jabs thought was suspicious and was saying "look at anyone but me". I don't think that's what Jabs was saying, but it wouldn't be crazy to interpret it like that.

Why are 542 and 543 scumslips?

[Titus]

@Amren, You should be able to answer this simple question if you believe I am scum. If not, you should seriously reconsider.

What role listed in the wiki for scum can act during the day and wholly convince someone they are indeed town?

I am pretty sure that Jabs, myself and TD are town.

[Titus]

@Titus: Glad to see that my only partners in this game aren't just Rift and Amrum. Let me know what you think of my case against Amrum, please.

I have been reading and I will show my thoughts later. I want Amren to answer my question first or wait until morning.

[Titus]

I looked at another game Amrun was in and he generally does not access a computer on the weekend. I doubt Amren systemically lies but I also don't see how phone posting helps or hurts the case. It's irrelevant, unless someone was asking for a long wall. Those are hard to do on phones.

[Titus]

@Jabs/Amren, Both of you should slow down and lose the anger/emotion in your posts. You can post however you want to but you might start losing your audience and your points.

I'm seriously considering moving to level 2, because of you Jabs.

[Titus]

@Amren, You did. Generally, I will be the first to comment and comment aggressively if I feel a question of mine has been skipped.

[Titus]

I don't like the Stubbs train. Amrun I am iffy on. I think the Stubbs train is because we viewed the purpose of RVS differently. All his train seems to be is his poorcase then. He's defending it hard and not deflecting which is a sign of a misunderstood town to me.

[Titus]

I have Zoidberg as pretty town too. He has voted stubbs previously at a point far too early to bus. I am fairly confident Z and Stubbs are not the same scum faction.

[Titus]

What posts are those?

[Titus]

That's not the first time I've seen that as justification for thinking he's scum. Yet, I don't see why those are "a scum claim" or anything really. Can you explain it to me?

[Titus]

Those posts aren't scummy at all, honestly. Like, Zoidberg has done some scummy things, but those aren't it. Idgi.

What do you think he's done that's scummy?

[Titus]

@Metal Sonic, that vote without explanation seems pretty damn convinent.

@Tiphaine, your explanation just seemed to be your conclusion. Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of those posts (who would be) but I don't think they are lynchable posts. I frequently ask people for an explanation on cases that I don't feel are strong in case I've missed something and 542 seems to be legitimate confusion. I missed the buddying Z missed too.

[Titus]

@Amrun, that seemed like a really disjointed reply.

[Titus]

Amrun, please, dear god don't ask me why stubbs is scum. I made a thing. It was a thingy thing. Go read it!

That was to metal sonic, not you.

@Amrun, that seemed like a really disjointed reply.

What did?

667. I couldn't tell who it was to or what it was regarding.

[Titus]

Yup, that's what's weird and bad about it.i

Level 1 - Straight up, playing what you are
Level 2 - Pretending to be something else.
Level 3 - Pretending to be something pretending to be something else.

Not sure what level 0 is though.

[Titus]

What role listed in the wiki for scum can act during the day and wholly convince someone they are indeed town?

Just tell us.

Being vague doesn't win you any prizes

No, but being what you perceive to be helpful doesn't either. It would be a bigger boon to scum if I told the truth.

[Titus]

What role listed in the wiki for scum can act during the day and wholly convince someone they are indeed town?

Just tell us.

Being vague doesn't win you any prizes

No, but being what you perceive to be helpful doesn't either. It would be a bigger boon to scum if I told the truth.

Ugh, I don't want to go through every damn role on the wiki

I know and I'm a bastard too so that might not even help. Look through the minor hints I've given. If not give up. Let me worry about how to get a message to you if you don't understand. I will tell when the time is right.

[Titus]

Oooh I knew I missed replying to something. If Tiphane and I live to Lylo, I have not played this game appropriately.

[Titus]

@ mod, are we in confirmed non multiball?

I do NOT like this post one bit. Nope nope nope nope...

Vote TiphaineDeath

Why not? It seems to be a method of narrowing down scum motivation,

[Titus]

@ mod, are we in confirmed non multiball?

I do NOT like this post one bit. Nope nope nope nope...

Vote TiphaineDeath

Why not? It seems to be a method of narrowing down scum motivation,

We're in day 1... There's NO, ZERO, NIL, NADA point of reason that we would even need to THINK about the game being multi-ball. We haven't even had the night lynch for that line of questioning to even arise. I don't like it one bit

It seems to be pretty clear to me that Tiphane is thinking Zoidberg is bussing Stubbs and wants to know why. Given he's not bogging down the group with pointless questions, I'd say let him do his own investigation.

P.S. Please vote me if you want to vote Tiphane. Trust me on that.

@Jabs, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5166360 That's the closest thing I could find to a Stubbs case in his ISO.

[Titus]

All I asked you to do was link it, bitch. Fuck yourself.

U mad bro? Go nominate yourself for another scummy.

Zoidberg, anger will not help us. Get mad at Titus-San who leaves hard questions.

[Titus]

*sigh* Just cause Jabs didn't see your case doesn't mean he's not reading the thread Zoid.

[Titus]

@Jabs, are there 512 reasons to stick a "Vote Me" sign on your back? I won't do it but it sounds like a really cool prank.

[Titus]

Also, lol at the scrub comment. Stay mad.

Yeah you're right I think it's actually "human centipede" and not "human caterpillar"

My apologies.

No problem, bro, now back to lolling forever at your w/l record.

@Jabs, are there 512 reasons to stick a "Vote Me" sign on your back? I won't do it but it sounds like a really cool prank.

That was a pressure vote (I think. Dunno, Varsoon made that.)

Try again to answer the question after talking in your QT with your other head. [/notangry]

[Titus]

Stubbs do you have a completed scum game I can look at please?

Not on this site no.
I could link you to another site if you want.
You should be looking at my town game though. I'm always crap at scumhunting.
I'll try and read up, maybe my reads are better when drunk.

If you are town, it's probably best if you don't give us a reason to discount you in your posts.

[Titus]

@Jabs, I am concerned the mafia are targeting the players with less experience as mislynches. If you look at our join dates, we are both pretty new relatively speaking.

[Titus]

Did a quick host ISO. Rift Adrift seems to be the only player on both trains.

[Titus]

Can we get a prod on Baezu?

[Titus]

Let's see what happens.

VOTE: Rift Adrift

[Titus]

@Jabs, hammering Stubbs is likely a mistake. There is no good case on Stubbs. Don't lynch the fellow. He just doesn't know howto talk himself off a lynch.

@Rift Adrift, If Stubbs flips town, you know you're my public enemy number 1 right? Presence on trains and a generally hostile attitude is an excellent place to start.

[Titus]

@Jabs, hammering Stubbs is likely a mistake. There is no good case on Stubbs. Don't lynch the fellow. He just doesn't know howto talk himself off a lynch.

@Rift Adrift, If Stubbs flips town, you know you're my public enemy number 1 right? Presence on trains and a generally hostile attitude is an excellent place to start.

I just went through your iso looking for your rationale for your vote. I can't find one.

Which makes Jabarkus' comment that he agrees with your case as the justification for his vote look even odder than it did last night.

You are indeed quoting the post where I give my rationale. This seems like a discredit move. I also mentioned you were (at the time of my post), the only player to vote me and Stubbs. I know a vote on me is a vote to mislynch. A vote on Stubbs I suspect is a mislynch. A player on both trains therefore is a good place to start if Stubbs flips town, especially when he was very angry at the start.

Funny how your tone changes when I comment on it though.

[Titus]

What do you mean that is your rationale?

Scum influence is usually required to make a train go, especially Day 1 with so many votes required. I know my train was a bad train. I believe the Stubbs train is bad. A common name in both trains suggests that's the scum influence.



Also, I had no dissonance regarding my RVS vote. The actions did not go according to how I thought RVS should be done, for reasons similar to Tiphane's initial objection.

Rift, please sign your posts. Tone should not be able to hide behind hydras.

[Titus]

If I think there is a reason to question whether a particular post is made by Syr or by me, I'll indicate it's me, but probably not via signing.

Not good enough. I cannot look for tone shifts if I am guessing who is talking. Plus, your identification standard is convenient.

[Titus]

If I think there is a reason to question whether a particular post is made by Syr or by me, I'll indicate it's me, but probably not via signing.

Not good enough. I cannot look for tone shifts if I am guessing who is talking. Plus, your identification standard is convenient.

I have zero interest in catering to one of my scum reads.

It's like two characters man. -s or -f.

Plus, the lack of a tone shift is a town indicator.

[Titus]

@Rift Adrift, why the need for 789?

[Titus]

@Jabs, I think TD's case is as misguided as Stubbs' s case on me was. Stubbs thought I had a nonRVS reason for voting Oriole and he pushed it. Thatremoves quite a few of the points in TD's case. Also Stubbs' s anger seems to be in the right place.

Also why would Rift need to defend Zoidberg? Perhaps (speculation) it is a preemptive defense bc they know Stubbs is town.

[Titus]

@Slandaar: I mean, yeah, that's pretty genuine, but scum could write those letters in that arrangement just as easily. It's not too hard to play town when you're playing scum.

-V

@Jabs, given this is day 1, we should give the benefit of the doubt to players IMO. The more people the scum must use their influence on, the more likely it is they will be outed when trying to do so. Scum can do anything, as you've shown Varsoon.

By the way, I still think there are 512 reasons sticking a "Vote Me" sign on your back is cool Varsoon. Whaddya think?

[Titus]

@Jabs, That doesn't mean that voting someone with more than 9 days to go is an appropriate course of action when you have serious reservations as to their scum level. I am one of those people who wouldn't vote for you, but that doesn't mean I agree with the move you are making. There are better targets.

*smacks V lovingly* Answer my prank question, or say WTF I don't understand.

[Titus]

@V, because I'm not hinting at a course of action. I just wanted you to look in the right place. Am I right?

Let's pressure Rift Adrift, then. He seems to be refusing even basic hydra etiquette to sign his posts. I think he's worried about getting caught shifting tone and being unable to blame the other head.

[Titus]

You two amuse me. Never change.

Good. I'm not usually this amusing. It's just easier with Varsoon.

[Titus]

@V, I'll try again later. Maybe you and your other head can put together what I'm asking in the meantime. If you realize what I'm saying, just then tell me whether to go ahead with my "prank" (which isn't a course of action at all). I'm trying to make it clear to you without being clear to scum. Hence, obfuscation.

@Slandaar/Jabs - This is accurate. You must look at Stubbs's defense from his perspective. He thought your case on Amrun was weak, and he put a genuine post indicating that. That's not at all saying your case was weak.

[Titus]

@V, Got it.

*crickets*

[Titus]

@Bro, what do you think of Rift Adrift? I would consider getting back on Baezu, but I really think Rift Adrift needs more pressure.

[Titus]

@V, I thought I did. Oh well.

@Bro/Jabs, I like his reasoning so far (but it's just wrong). He could be legit or he could be trying to attack a line in a pretty solid town wall. Jabs --- TD --- Myself --- weak line to Slandaar.

@Stubbs, you were drunk. The wall was pretty towny but I generally discount what players say when drunk.

[Titus]

It does. I'll expect more from him when he comes back from V/LA.

What do you think of Rift Adrift?

[Titus]

Why are you asking questions you won’t be getting answers to?

How exactly do you know I won't be getting answers?

It's not a big jump to realize that Metal Sonic had been ignoring that question before and is just generally being a herpalurk. It's not irrational for Stubbs to believe answering that question would lead no results.

How about you quit tunneling and provide a read on someone else?

[Titus]

Why are you asking questions you won’t be getting answers to?

How exactly do you know I won't be getting answers?

It's not a big jump to realize that Metal Sonic had been ignoring that question before and is just generally being a herpalurk. It's not irrational for Stubbs to believe answering that question would lead no results.

How about you quit tunneling and provide a read on someone else?

Today I learned that asking someone I'm not voting for clarification = tunneling

That question was regarding Stubbs not Bro. You never gave a read on Bro. Why don't you give a read on him.

[Titus]

@Tiphane, Stubbs is a mistake lynch. Rift is a better candidate. Baezu is now intelligently giving new theories and scum hunting. His point is midly persuasive.

[Titus]

That question was regarding Stubbs not Bro. You never gave a read on Bro. Why don't you give a read on him.

I don't understand.

-Zoidberg asks Metal Sonic a question about Stubbs
-Bro says it's silly to ask MS anything because he's a lurker and won't answer
-Titus accuses Zoidberg of tunneling

????

As for bro, I have him as null

My apologies. I got something in your ISO messed up. Maybe I attributed what Bro said to Stubbs, which would make everything make sense.

[Titus]

@Aunt Jem, am I Tussy? Can you put a translation in one post so I can be sure we're talking about the same people?

[Titus]

Quite a bit of Aunt Jemina's posts seem to be Info over Analysis. I am gravely concerned here about her vote AND unvote.

[Titus]

Let's just move on and handle that post game Tiphane. We've got scum to catch.

Rift, what do you think the value of meta is?

[Titus]

@Tiphane/Rift, Rift just did some awesome buddying there. He says "TD is rocking this game. One of my strongest town reads." Yet, he's questioning my town status, and by extension your decision to label me as town. Those two statements seem to conflict with each other.

[Titus]

@Titus Noted and Logged, never fret.

I agree with Amrun though, the statements don't contradict each other.

He's calling me town and calling me wrong.

@Ghostly God I am going to hate being in an AJ game and having to parse her language again.

Right but it was the "rocking this game", that implied your actions were spot on for the game. That is in conflict with the implication you got something wrong.

[Titus]

@Titus Noted and Logged, never fret.

I agree with Amrun though, the statements don't contradict each other.

He's calling me town and calling me wrong.

@Ghostly God I am going to hate being in an AJ game and having to parse her language again.

Right but it was the "rocking this game", that implied your actions were spot on for the game. That is in conflict with the implication you got something wrong.

I can't recall ever seeing someone have everything perfectly figured out on day 1 of a game this size.

Right now I don't know whether Tiphaine is right about you or I am.

I'm tabling it for today and hoping things make more sense tomorrow.

If you are town, then try a reset because you're completely and totally wrong about me, except for the part about me buddying players I think are town and think I can work with to improve town's chances.

Right now, my read on you is in flux. If you are town, I seriously doubt we'd be able to work together even we got incontrovertible confirmation that we're both town. There seems to be a huge disconnect and at this point you are grossly misinterpreting my posts.

I have to say you are right here. That is exactly what I would ask for if I was town in this situation. It does give me pause. I will have to think about a reset, because letting go of my top scum read is indeed foolish. Your voting patterns would stay as evidence though in a reset, which is a key piece of evidence against you because I think Stubbs is town. However, if we both live to tomorrow, you can consider a reset agreed to.

If you want to convince me that you're town, give me a colorable argument that Stubbs is indeed scum. I give significant weight to voting patterns and word choice more than alleged scum claims others have put forth. I'm gravely concerned that scum shifted their influence from me towards Stubbs being scum.

[Titus]

Well why don't we shift this up? I generally view meta as weak because players can change their meta. My first game on this site, I deliberately did something different than my meta on another site before coming here.

I do agree with your premise that scumhunting is hard to fake as genuine. I suggest we do two things.

1) I pressure Stubbs, assuming he is scum. You read his posts assuming he is town.

2) You pressure Zoidberg assuming he is scum. I read his posts assuming he is town.

This will do three things. 1) It will see if we're capable of stepping outside our own preconceived notions. 2) It will reveal the depth of our analysis to each other. 3) It will reveal whether or not we are right about Stubbs and Zoidberg, without clogging up the thread with meaningless conflict going back and forth.

[Titus]

I am out for the night. I hope your heads can have an answer for me in the morning.

[Titus]

Do you have a strong scum read on Zoidberg?

This doesn't sound productive. I'd rather sort players I currently have null-ish reads on.

Leaning scum, so that's why I wanted to use him. Null reads doesn't do much for that experiment though. If you are scum, you can fake being convinced of whatever side you're supposed to take and not do any real scumhunting.

What about this game only convinces you Stubbs is scum?

I do agree with the general idea of sorting nulls though. Who are your nulls?

[Titus]

I think the opposite, Slandaar. Only one of Elvis/Baezu is scum.

I'm super happy with this wagon right now, that never happens

Why do you think only one of them is scum?

[Titus]

I think the opposite, Slandaar. Only one of Elvis/Baezu is scum.

I'm super happy with this wagon right now, that never happens

Why do you think only one of them is scum?

I said it before...

Baezu comes in and finds a wagon on him, makes a snipe to Elvis about a scummy post she made on a recent page. (Normal)

But THEN, in lieu of actually catching up, he says he reads the whole thing but obviously only read Elvis' ISO in order to attack her. Like maybe he did read the whole thing but he didn't comment on it, ONLY constructed something on Elvis. Pretty clearly trying to deflect the wagon into someone else but choosing a "new" target so as not to appear opportunistic. This is what inspired me to re-vote for Baezu.

But if he DOE flip scum, that makes Elvis so town in my eyes that I'll probably never vote for her even though I do find her independently scummy. If Baezu flips town, I'll revisit.

That sounds like a lot of twisting of what Baezu has done to me. I saw a reader who read the thread, thought someone was scummy, and gave new and unique reasons as to why that person was scummy.

[Titus]

Look at Beazu's posts, look at the things Baezu commented on, or did not comment on. Just avoids so much shit. That looked like a panic deflection to me, very much.

Ok. I looked through the ISO, there might be something worth testing but I am not certain. However, if Baezu is scum, I'd pair him with Metal Sonic for much of the same reasons I like Rift Adrift.

Baezu, what do you think of Rift Adrift, Metal Sonic, Amrun, Tiphane and myself?

[Titus]

I can't understand how I am the only person who sees how scummy metalsonic is.

That's not true. Many have seen his scumminess (including myself).

What do you think of the conflict between Rift Adrift and me?

[Titus]

yeah so obviously i am town^

I can't understand how I am the only person who sees how scummy metalsonic is.

Elvis read has been revised as Genuine VI = poor town and doesnt know it


Therefore baezu is scum

VOTE: Baezu

This seems pretty convenient. Why the revision?

[Titus]

See the quote I quoted? Town tell.

Yeah it was convenient

That is not a town tell because a)it's wrong, several have FoSed you, b) it seems more like flailing, look at ms, c) FoSing someone cannot b a town tell, it's waaay to easy to fake.

I am really in favor of MS and Elvis scumteam. That was really bad.

VOTE: Metalsonic

[Titus]

This is fucking silly. While I did go through the list and go 'yes, yes, probably, huh?', the fact that RA's more concerned in putting Town players in presorted blocs than continuing to push any wagon speaks volumes.

And why are we letting RA unilaterally making this decision, if it needs to be made? The best Town blocs make themselves out of bonds of trust, not on one player's Town reads.

RA's even spent a post or two essentially getting AJ to sign onto this. Why is this considered a productive use of time?

ALSO, GHOSTLIN STILL CAN'T FUCKING HYDRA, I THOUGHT YOU'D ALL WANNA KNOW THAT.

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to say when I got back. TD has previously said that ANY town block including him would require Jabs/Xiao and myself. However, putting me and RA in the same town bloc is ludicrous given the fact we both FoS each other.

[Titus]

VOTE: Rift Adrift

Sorry, grasping at a town block that isn't even logical earns you a vote in my eyes.

[Titus]

I'd like to know how he's thinking, to see if I'm reading him correctly.

I get that a lot. I usually find myself agreeing with others instead of finding scum myself. I'm trying though.

I would think that most of it is about Titus actually.

Everyone who was active yesterday has a shitton of posts about titus. In looking at what else you've posted a lot of it is to jabarkus, including posts asking their thoughts about titus.

You're townreading him apparently.

What are your other reads?

Town:(from high to low)
Amrun
Jabarkas
Rift Adrift
Broseidon
Rofl
Zoidberg
Slandaar

The whole Titus-TD thing is sort of weird to me. But not taking that into account Titus is scum. Tiphaine is too chaotic to have a proper read on.

Ghostly Penguin bothers me. Very little content, but took the time to comment on the buddying thing. No reads whatsoever.

Everyone else has barely posted or hasn't made much of an impression.

P-Edit: Slandaar moving up

Vote: Amrun

This, combined with the poor way you pressured me to make a Titus case for you, combined with your weak, WIFOM-y Titus case...
I think there's enough votes on Baezu to get something from the slot.
And I know Stubbs isn't active in this game.
Having a vote on you is the best vote right now.

-V

Every line in this post is crappy.
It's funny how you keep trying to come off as having all the answers.
Anyone who doesn't agree with your reads is scum or a "lvl 1 town", and others who aren't keeping up with your amount of shitposting are "not active" "lurkers".

The least you can do is show some respect for players who are trying to contribute to this game. Some people have a real life and aren't online 24/7.

These posts all seem to indicate town for me. They indicate a player engaging in analysis of players and analysis of himself. Yeah, he hasn't quite put everything together yet but there seems to be a decent effort on his part to try. Frankly, being on a major wagon can derail the scum hunting of a player if the major conversations are only are you scum or are you not scum?

[Titus]

Add post 971 to the reasons Stubbs is town. That post shows that he'll question what is being told rather than sheep for his own livelihood.

[Titus]

@TD, why don't you do that Re ISO now?

I really don't like roflcopter. I never liked him before when he was voting so much and now the discredit on known town... it's unsettling at least. The fact that RA has roflcopter in his "town block" worries me more about him.

Rofl - What do you think of RA?

[Titus]

Go further. What about RA makes him town? Link me to a post if you've done analysis I've missed.

I have three independent reasons to believe TD is town. The first was the strength of his reads and his willingness to attack. Second, his willingness to confirm me as town would go totally against his scum win condition. He could have insisted on the BS shot, which could have made me look really bad. I was the major wagon after all. Third, I've got a good beat on what TD is from my trolling with Varsoon.

[Titus]

Do you have a specific reason you're FoSing TD? or are you just trying to break up a town block?

Your read on RA is weak and you are criticizing my reads on TD which are based off evidence. Rather than look to understand them, you're dismissive saying it doesn't help.

TD has been one of the most analytical players in this game, questioning, hunting and answering logically. I really do not get the FoS here.

[Titus]

In my POV, yes it does. Many people, myself, Xiao, RA all argue that TD is town. I will never vote for TD or Xiao unless my account is hijacked I believe they are town that strongly. So yeah, FoSing TD comes across to my PoV as attempting to break up a town block. I said as much when Eddie FoSed TD.

[Titus]

TD isn't scum. This isn't his scumgame.

statements like this are useless and should almost never be listened to.

ftr.

Do you suspect TD? If so, why?

[Titus]

What if you were certain the other way? Assume for a moment that you know TD is town. What would that tell you about Baezu? Those on his train?

[Titus]

Uh, nothing at all, really. TD isn't on Baezu's train and he's not on it for the most stupid, fencesitty, non-comprehending gamestate reasons ever.

Zero people are voting Baezu because of lurking. They're voting him because he's scummy.

If TD were town, that would tell me that he isn't reading very well and is really confirmation-biased, and that's it.

So basically, TD's scum because he's not doing what you want. I don't think we should lynch Baezu. We have plenty of other targets that are better than Baezu. However, the trains seem to be pretty consistent. Titus ---> Stubbs ---> Baezu. Forgive me for the paranoia but that doesn't exactly make me want to trust you.

In fact, I am so confident that TD's town, I'll volunteer to be lynched in his place if anyone ever wants to lynch him. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

[Titus]

Right? And if TD eased himself into the Baezu wagon, you'd ease yourself into thinking he's town? You can pretend that someone is scum solely because they don't want someone else lynched. That's garbage. It's a great reason to pressure and see if they make slips but generally it is horrible for day 1.

I know for certain that this is a bastard game. So the fact that TD thought he got shot and didn't and lived doesn't worry me. I have exclusive information that explains that situation to me because I know what message the host likely sent. Either that message confused him or he got his games mixed up. It sounds like to me you're fishing for a role claim from TD and I'll have none of that.

TD has a courage to his convictions but at the same time is willing to revisit his opinions when the proper evidence comes along. That reason is not dumb.
Second, getting me lynched by calling me a mafia day-vig would be a pretty smart move to capitalize on the confusion unless he thought I had something else up my sleeve. He could have done that. Yet, he did not. Yeah, let's suppose he didn't go this route for town cred. I wouldn't be giving him an automatic pass. I'd still be looking to see if my first point was true. It is.
I already got confirmation from Varsoon as to what the former hydra and TD are.
Third, what mafia would actually confirm their aligned with their partner so early on? Both the hydra and TD have essentially confirmed their joined at the hip status. That play makes NO SENSE for any style of scum team.

[Titus]

All of that case sounds to me like a legitimate town who is angry.

The exchange with me was fueled by a misunderstanding that Slandaar walked me through. He didn't understand that I thought RVS was a reason. He kept pushing for the "reason" for my RVS vote not understanding how I intended it. Given his lack of experience, I can see him looking outward to see if he is on the right track.

The Stubbs thing could have been interpreted as rolefishing but there is a more innocent explanation. That he's honestly trying to explain a messed up scenario that the participants themselves are not explaining. His theory is a little ridiculous, but again it looks like if Stubbs is honestly trying to determine if we are scum or not.

The post Zoidberg is upset with the "filler post", sounds more like a player thinking his stance outloud rather than hurriedly rushing to a conclusion. It's hard to reach conclusions when you have no direction regarding the conversation at all.

[Titus]

**The case is referring to Stubbs... bah silly posts inbetween.

[Titus]

@Armun, if I was a vanilla scum and I could take out a powerful PR by lying to the group, I'd at least give it consideration. I give every plausible option consideration. Not doing that is the stupidest move scum could make.

Yeah, your whole associative tells thing sounds like "I'm right" but I won't talk about it. Resisting a lynch with legitimate reasons for resisting is not an associative tell. Resiting for poor reasons is.

[Titus]

@Amrun, Wow, Varsoon's inexperienced? It seems to be you are looking for straws to discredit the Xiao/TD/Titus townblock. It's something all of us know based on our statements. Again, since you're so big on mafia theory, on what planet is it SMART to essential say you're not just sure the person's town but so sure that you'll NEVER vote for them or that you're confaligned. This isn't wifom. There's no levels of crap thing justifying it. They are town. I'd bet my game life on it.

[Titus]

@Amrun, way to hedge your bets. I'm more experienced than you, so y'all suck and it's unimportant. Oh but by the way, experience doesn't mean jack.

I wouldn't say I was confaligned with them but TD knows my role I know his role and I know Xiao's role. So yeah, I can say we're confaligned. Until I knew their roles, I'd just say I was pretty sure they were town.

[Titus]

@Amrun, way to hedge your bets. I'm more experienced than you, so y'all suck and it's unimportant. Oh but by the way, experience doesn't mean jack.

I wouldn't say I was confaligned with them

but TD knows my role I know his role and I know Xiao's role. So yeah, I can say we're confaligned. Until I knew their roles, I'd just say I was pretty sure they were town.

This is pretty confusing.

Rephrasing.

If I didn't know TD's and Xiao's role, I wouldn't say we were confaligned but I would be pretty sure they were town. TD knows my role partially and knows it makes no sense as scum. Xiao, through association can claim the same confalign.

[Titus]

If something doesn't matter, why mention it at all Amrun? It does matter. You are trying to use your "knowledge" as a method of discrediting us, but hide behind it by saying that you're not always right.

[Titus]

@Xiao, I agree. This is not being productive.

AJ has some "sweet" analysis but I'm surprised at what's not there in her reads. Stubbs is absolutely absent in all of her posts. Did she skip this?

[Titus]

Both heads of this hydra think she's scum. 978/979 has our reasons for it.

I don't think that lynch will fucking fly today, and that's a crippling shame.

Why not? This seems like a lynch supported by evidence.

[Titus]

VOTE: Aunt Jemina

[Titus]

That was one factor that put it over the edge. Still I like the fact you are willing to fact check me.

[Titus]

In my POV, yes it does. Many people, myself, Xiao, RA all argue that TD is town. I will never vote for TD or Xiao unless my account is hijacked I believe they are town that strongly. So yeah, FoSing TD comes across to my PoV as attempting to break up a town block. I said as much when Eddie FoSed TD.

You pretty much scumread me, disagree with me, discredit me, and I lose track of how many times you've put a vote down on me.

But...on this particular thing that we agree on, you're citing me as support for your position.

If I'm that scummy why am I in your credits list here?

I'm stating your observation as support. I am not 100% certain if you are town or scum, very rarely are people that certain. The point is the same regardless of whether you are included or not. You were included not because I believed your statement to be the truth regarding your scum read but my audience is more likely to see it that way as well. It wasn't just me TD and Xiao who believed TD was indeed town.

[Titus]

@AJ, Everytime I think I have someone placed, they do something to change my mind. However, AJ it should be obvious I am not a mason as I triggered a day event. Also, claiming for people who have you under suspicion is a great way to piss them off. I will not confirm or deny TD as a mason. That is his choice.

I will say you might be able to figure out my role if you try or at least figure out what I did. If you do, keep it to yourself AJ.

VOTE: unvote

[Titus]

Ok, why is it scummy to think scum would push a wagon on a town read?

[Titus]

I'm not sure how it confirms multi-ball or stubbs scum. Walk me through it please.

[Titus]

Multiball would explain my role. There is a decent Stubbs case as scum. Let me stew on this because I had him as a town read.

Amrun, what do you think the misrep is?

[Titus]

No but I am saying the wording of that is extremely suspicious. From a town players perspective no one cares which scum they catch, just that they catch scum, get me?

There is a third interpretation neither of you are seeing. However, I will hold back and see if Stubbs makes this explanation himself. I like the Baezu case better honestly. I know he's a lurker but I'd rather go after likely scum than Stubbs.

[Titus]

@TD/Slandaar, since we like each other as town (I think), why don't we put together a list of people we are willing to lynch, look at the pros and cons and decide as a unit who we want to lynch?

[Titus]

Dumb question is French your native language? I'm guessing because of Belgium being the place in your profile. If that that, then Dutch. I just happen to know a little French.

[Titus]

@TD/Stubbs, the reason I asked this question (although I am a little rusty on my french grammar) is "this", "that", "which", and "the" are not as clearly drawn as they are in French as they are in English. Those words have their own grammatically usage. I have no clue on Dutch grammar though.

[Titus]

I'd go with Rift Adrift, Baezu and Roflcopter. I know Rofl has people saying his play is his meta but I don't like meta and I don't like his play.

I'd be willing to lynch Metal Sonic, AJ, and Elvis but I'd rather lynch from the top three.

Stubbs's reaction to tunnelling doesn't concern me because I tend to get angry the same way when people tunnel me. The discredit though is a little disconcerting.

[Titus]

I don't see rofl as purely pro-town. I see him changing targets numerous times and providing very little in the way of analysis on other players. If rofl is obv town, you should be able to give me clear incidents where I am mistaken. His voting shifts too erratically with no substance change for me to believe he is indeed town.

No. The Stubbs "slip" I don't think is a slip at all due to differences in French and English grammar like I've said. The discrediting (calling the arguments against him ridiculous) gives me pause because the arguments aren't ridiculous just wrong.

[Titus]

Bro, can you give your reads on

RA
Rofl
Baezu
AJ
Slandaar
Stubbs

and anyone else of note.

[Titus]

Can you walk me through Rofl being town here? I don't see that.

[Titus]

I don't see rofl as purely pro-town. I see him changing targets numerous times and providing very little in the way of analysis on other players. If rofl is obv town, you should be able to give me clear incidents where I am mistaken. His voting shifts too erratically with no substance change for me to believe he is indeed town.

No. The Stubbs "slip" I don't think is a slip at all due to differences in French and English grammar like I've said. The discrediting (calling the arguments against him ridiculous) gives me pause because the arguments aren't ridiculous just wrong.

It's a play style thing. You can see content in the posts immediately preceding a sudden and unsupported vote led to the vote changes. In fact if you didn't have a 'hmm" moment prior to a vote change then you're either not paying attention or you just read games in a very different mindset, I guess. Regarding the switch to Jem, a quick ISO of his last day or so of posts will show the trajectory on that vote. A wall about it just adds verbiage to the thread and makes players who like to read walls happy.

Generally speaking, fluidity is a town attribute that most scum have difficulty emulating, with or without walls.

I'm not seeing those hmm moments legitimately. Rather, it's this train's not launching so I'll go over to another train. Also, rofl NEVER voted JEM.

[Titus]

Sorry...meant Elvis. I have Jem on the brain atm because I'm trying to sort her.

And, yes, I can tell you're not having those hmm moments. That much is obvious.

That's just a discredit/misrep. It was clear from my posts I wasn't seeing that in roflcopter. I've been thinking about what everyone says about Stubbs. Why are you so hellbent on discrediting me?

[Titus]

@Slandaar - Amrun, I'm open to extending it in the future to him but not right now. He's town enough where I'd give his opinion weight but I don't trust him given how hard he tunnelled me at the beginning. Xiao is already included in the boundaries, by including TD you automatically include Xiao. This is one of the things AJ got right.

@RA - Then why is roflcopter town? Why are you obv town?

[Titus]

I did do that. That's why I said I don't see the hmm coming from roflcopter but rather him changing because the lynches he wants aren't going off.

You basically called yourself or rofl "so freaking town", that's close enough to obv town for me.

[Titus]

rofl has also been on every major wagon but for stubbs. However, he did say Stubbs was suspicious for being under the radar.

[Titus]

I'll ask again. What makes you think that Rofl is doing significant analysis before changing trains?

[Titus]

Sorry TD. Any gambit that requires an assumption of something untrue I will likely derail unless I know the gambit is coming or the player is likely to gambit.

[Titus]

Why Zoidberg, TD?

[Titus]

"It's a play style thing. You can see content in the posts immediately preceding a sudden and unsupported vote led to the vote changes. In fact if you didn't have a 'hmm" moment prior to a vote change then you're either not paying attention or you just read games in a very different mindset, I guess."

And then

"He's got a smart gut."

---------

Even if Rofl is "playing by his gut" evidence of his thought pattern beyond, this lynch isn't getting off should be present. Instead, it's all about getting on trains for town cred. Hurry and lynch this guy.

[Titus]

He had two posts in a row that made me scream SCUM at him. He has done nothing to alter that read.

Which posts?

@RA, Eddie's being replaced.

[Titus]

Ok, is Zoidberg consistently blind to buddying? or is this a novel problem?

[Titus]

Bro, can you give your reads on

RA
Rofl
Baezu
AJ
Slandaar
Stubbs

and anyone else of note.

Just realized you didn't ask me about EK, who is probably more notable than Slandaar.

Hmm....

I selected people to see how much in agreement we were and if you were capable of analysis. I included some popular scum reads, my own, and a few people who were town.

Ok, I really don't see rofl as town. I must be missing something. I'll leave open the possibility that his playstyle is scummy but I don't get town vibes from him at all.

[Titus]

I can see this. I did my own meta search and see that Zoidberg has accused people of buddying him when he's town. This weakness seems newly discovered. I could go for his lynch. E_K seems acceptable but lower on the priority list.

[Titus]

That's silly. He did accuse people of buddying, and that's a really poor reason to accuse someone. Wtf kind of scum motivation does that have?

You are missing the context entirely here. Posts 542 and 543 by Zoidberg suggests he has difficulty detecting buddying. However, the fact he's detected buddying suggests that this recent weakness may be a fabrication.

[Titus]

I notice that BRO's buddying of you didn't particularly bother you.

I don't think I even noticed it, but that

is

a blind spot of mine. Can you link?

That's silly. He did accuse people of buddying, and that's a really poor reason to accuse someone. Wtf kind of scum motivation does that have?

You are missing the context entirely here. Posts 542 and 543 by Zoidberg suggests he has difficulty detecting buddying. However, the fact he's detected buddying suggests that this recent weakness may be a fabrication.

Not even remotely how I read those posts. He suggested that he may have missed broseidon's buddying ONLY, and asked what other people were seeing, not some general weakness about buddying.

"is a blind spot" should logically be interpreted to mean a general weakness, when it comes to buddying. I can't see another interpretation.

[Titus]

I do, but I understand your interpretation. But him having accused other people of buddying in the past doesn't say ANYTHING about that, especially considering he had already accused people of buddying here.

It does say a lot actually.

A deaf man saying "I heard that", leads one to question whether he's really deaf or pretending. Here begs the same question.

[Titus]

@AJ, who is Sonny again? I'm sorry. I don't have a code list for all the nicknames.

[Titus]

AJ, I'm seeing Rift Adrift as possible scum given his reactions to the various trains that have gone on. His only two votes have been on myself and Stubbs, despite him reading many people as scummy. I know I would have been a mislynch because I know my own role. I like Stubbs as town. He was on both trains. He also seems quick to establish a town block. Town don't need town blocks to early but they can happen. Why does he? His reactions seem to be more about getting the conversation on popular wagons. He seems to have a "go it alone style" which is not very conducive to forming a solid opinion that someone is or is not scum. His tunnel on Stubbs makes no sense to me. His reluctance to trust someone in his town block about my status makes no sense, especially when TD says one of us has to be town then the other is. It seems like he's camping on a lynch until he's certain it won't go off.

Metal Sonic's reads make no sense whatsoever. He seems like he's content to go along with the majority. However, there are moments of hope on him. I may disagree with his position on Elvis (not sure what I think of him), it's clear he might not be saying whatever the group wants to hear. I'm a little conflicted but earlier he seemed pretty scummy.

I'm curious, what about elvis do you find very sweet? I don't see that. I see your actions clearly indicate such.

[Titus]

@MetalSonic – Why? Because of the papernotes? That's not a pure indicator of anything.

@Oriole – I agree with the consensus. I think I see some factual things that are fueling some of your reads that are wrong. However, I won't say you're wrong until I am sure what you are saying.

[Titus]

@MetalSonic – Why? Because of the papernotes? That's not a pure indicator of anything.

@Oriole – I agree with the consensus. I think I see some factual things that are fueling some of your reads that are wrong. However, I won't say you're wrong until I am sure what you are saying.

i am a handwriting analysis expert



and the fact that he actually bothered to do this shit on paper = real scumhunting = town

oriole is as good as innocent child for me

Forgive me for questioning but I have never heard of handwriting indicating deception. I am not an expert and that's not my job. I am interested in this OOC too. Convince me this point isn't total bullshit and I'll have a lot of questions post game.

What Oriole has presented are reads, not scumhunting. The depth of his reads indicates deep thought.

Oriole mentioned he was on a plane. Paper is easier if that is true.

Another player did this in day 1of 512. So I know Oriole has seen that before as well.

This isn't innocent child kevel. This is more leaning town level.

[Titus]

@Peregrine, Removing the second reason wouldn't change my steadfast opinion that TD is town. The first and third are independent reasons to be certain TD is indeed town.

[Titus]

@PeregrineV, I do not usually put much stock in meta but I will review the game you've given to me later. I have an important work deadline today.

[Titus]

Yes, Xiao and TD are confaligned together. Both have said this numerous times.

@Xiao, I am beginning to doubt this many people missing this many times y'all have said y'all are confaligned. I'm thinking scum division is at play.

[Titus]

PV: how is it possible for you to have TD as town but me as scum? At least, I assume "downtown" is scum.

No, it's pretty obvious that "downtown" is town.

That would lead him with a read list with only one possible scum.

[Titus]

*possible = probable

[Titus]

Why don't we wait on PV to clarify?

[Titus]

TD, I am beginning to suspect scum influence in the suspicions on you and forgetting the confalignment.

I also have my concerns with 1225 but town can be confused.

PV, can you write out thoughts for everything in 1225.

[Titus]

How about WT*, can you focus on anyone but Stubbs? He's not allowed to give an opinion that differs from your wall now?

[Titus]

I think inducting most anyone into team obv-town is a little early at this stage. Oriole is leaning town and I wouldn't vote for him today, but it's day 1. If we are, or the scum believe we are, in a multi-ball scenario, it is much easier for them scum hunt.

[Titus]

Titus, plz lighten up.

What's that for?

[Titus]

In fact, Titus, do tell me: why aren't you voting? Is it lack of scum suspects; or something else?

I've got a problem with a good portion of the major trains. The people who I suspect of as being scum are infecting most of the major trains. So I decided I'd chill a bit and withdraw my vote. It's been off for a few vote counts now, and whoever caught it would be more likely town in my eyes.

As for Oriole, I try to be more reserved in placing people as confirmed town unless I absolutely know they are town. I've seen the notepad move before, so I don't give it as much weight as y'all are. I really don't like how a few posts can move someone from null into obv town. It's unsettling to me.

[Titus]

No. My suspects are RA, Zoidberg, Rofl (although I know people disagree, I'll give him a reread at night), and AJ plus the lurkers (which includes Baezu). I'm still a little paranoid over Amrun as well, but not enough to call him a suspect. I know some of those are likely town and someone I've eliminated is probably scum.

I like Stubbs, Slandaar, Ghostly and oriole to eliminate them as suspects for today. You and TD are eliminated as suspects for the game (unless one of you totally flips wrong).

The problem is my suspects are sitting on Baezu and Elvis. Stubbs I think is town. So yeah, not quite sure where I want to go.

[Titus]

@Slandaar – Pick me! Obvtown applications day 1, selected results day 2. Hardly any new applicants.

On a more serious note, we should start eliminating lynch targets. We have about 7 days left, which means we should start merging. I'd say the group has eliminated rofl (despite my disagreement), TD, Xiao, oriole, Slandaar, Ghostly, Stubbs, and myself. So the three on the Stubbs train, I am going to ask you to get off.

[Titus]

Found me some scum.

VOTE: BROseidon

Dude has had his vote parked on EddieFenix for ~40 pages now. His stated reasons for voting Eddie are that "he was scum with varsoon and should know better that this is not varsoon's scumgame"

After parking his vote, Bro simply stops mentioning eddie save for one or two token mentions, e.g. 1009. No pushing, no probing, he certainly never tries to engage with Eddie. This is indicative of scum who's trying to stay out of the spotlight, since votes attract attention. He's trying to slip by, commenting on things without ever really committing, i.e. "Yeah I'd be fine with XYZ lynch" or "No, this is ABC's town game" but never offering deep analysis or insight.

This seems a "look at this guy" post so we don't analyze you as deeply. It would look particularly weird if every fifth post or so by Bro was "Remember, Eddie's lurking".

[Titus]

I'm not following you. It wasn't about taking a step back being part of your scum game. It was that taking a step back wasn't what he knows of your town game.

Well he has no town meta that can be mentioned.

So if it was an event he hadn't seen, why is it associated to scum when he has scummeta to the contrary?

Tunneling as town was the meta. The back-off concern was a trajectory thing. Your back-off looked sudden and unsupported. It pinged like hell for me, and I think I made the first Rift post after you unvoted. Then Syr and I talked and he mentioned your town tendency to tunnel. And I don't remember the specifics, but there were other aspects of your play that reminded him of tenements.

A large part of the reasons I reversed my scum read of you was because it became apparent as the TD/titus exchange unfolded that you picked up on a crumb that I missed. And that totally explained the sudden back-off.

Why is this being rehashed?

[Titus]

peregrine vote zoidberg for towncred!

But I don't want to lynch him.

But,

peer pressure.

Vote: Zoidberg

I could buy Zoidberg with PV.

VOTE: Zoidberg