The Walking Dead Mafia! ( Game Over )

[Desperado]

Vote: Mastin

For quoting and responding to his own post. I haven't decided if this is serious or RVS.

[Desperado]

So, uh, Matt.

Why haven't you claimed flavor yet?

[Desperado]

That was lame as shit.

You've already claimed. Flavor is relevant. Why are you hesitant to claim your flavor name?

[Desperado]

That was lame as shit.

You've already claimed. Flavor is relevant. Why are you hesitant to claim your flavor name?

I'm not hesitant? I just don't care at all what you think, and now that you're asking for flavor I feel the sole desire to prevent you from ever being happy

MMkay.

Majiffy: Or he's a lying scumbag. I'm not really sure which one it is yet--is WIFOM the only reason you've got for suspecting he's telling the truth?

[Desperado]

Ok fine I was lying ;D

Oh hey look he was a lying scumbag.

[Desperado]

Vote: MattP

[Desperado]

And Matt what did you learn from your little reaction test? Nothing? Thought so.

Well if people just STFU and let it happen scum would have tried to mislynch me in final 5 and we would have won the game

Also we're out of RVS aren't we?

pedit:

VOTE: Desperado

You expected people not to talk about the fact that you claimed to be lynched with two votes?

[Desperado]

Only scum would try to turn this interaction into me being scummy

And yet, here I am with my town role pm.

[Desperado]

And Matt what did you learn from your little reaction test? Nothing? Thought so.

Well if people just STFU and let it happen scum would have tried to mislynch me in final 5 and we would have won the game

Also we're out of RVS aren't we?

pedit:

VOTE: Desperado

You expected people not to talk about the fact that you claimed to be lynched with two votes?

Please stop trying so hard to make this work for you, you vindictive little hedgehog

That's not really an answer to my question now is it?

And vindictive? What exactly am I avenging? You told a dumb lie and then whined when people...reacted to it, which I presume was your intention.

[Desperado]

And ffery, amrun, and I saw him do a real role claim on page one as town, so there's that. (A memory of Light mini theme)

~Sasha

What about a fake role claim? I can't be arsed to look for myself.

[Desperado]

And ffery, amrun, and I saw him do a real role claim on page one as town, so there's that. (A memory of Light mini theme)

~Sasha

What about a fake role claim? I can't be arsed to look for myself.

[Desperado]

Erm, why are people voting Desperado?

I think it's because I don't like that Matt lied and then lied about why he lied.

[Desperado]

Vote: Pitoli

bork is town

[Desperado]

Vote: Pitoli

bork is town

[Desperado]

I like these Desperado votes.

He doesn't look so good right now

. I don't even know what to think about Matt.

VOTE: Desperado

I didn't even get a chance to make an RVS vote. You guys suck. Btw, this is StupendousMan. I'll just sign these I guess.

-SM

@ Bolded: Go into more detail please.

[Desperado]

Erm, why are people voting Desperado?

They think he's scum.
Who do you think is scum?

No idea for now, I'll come back and read the thread later when it's not moving a mile a minute.

p-edit: goddammit let me post, people.

Dude is scum

[Desperado]

So your #3 is self contradictory? You state scum knowing what they are doing don't pull moves like that, yet you say newbie scum who see experienced scum do it will try it.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately misconstruing what I'm saying or if you're just fucking retarded.

What's it going to take for you to figure out which one it is? And how is this statement helping you reach that conclusion?

[Desperado]

So your #3 is self contradictory? You state scum knowing what they are doing don't pull moves like that, yet you say newbie scum who see experienced scum do it will try it.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately misconstruing what I'm saying or if you're just fucking retarded.

What's it going to take for you to figure out which one it is? And how is this statement helping you reach that conclusion?

Emotionally charge reactions and arguments are very telling.

That's a pretty vague answer to two pretty specific questions.

[Desperado]

Toogeloo gets to be town as well! For now, at least. I will probably get paranoid and mislynch him in endgame, though. Ha.

Why do you expect to make it to endgame?

[Desperado]

They're not that vague. You've played with me before. Don't act dumb, you know exactly what I'm trying to achieve here.

I'm not acting dumb, I'm just wondering what specifically toog would have to do to move the needle one way or the other.

I like these Desperado votes.

He doesn't look so good right now

. I don't even know what to think about Matt.

VOTE: Desperado

I didn't even get a chance to make an RVS vote. You guys suck. Btw, this is StupendousMan. I'll just sign these I guess.

-SM

@ Bolded: Go into more detail please.

Your reaction to Matt. I didn't like it.

This is your idea of specific?

get paranoid and mislynch him in endgame

Yeah 'cuz you're gonna be in endgame why exactly?

~Sasha

I like you.

And Matt what did you learn from your little reaction test? Nothing? Thought so.

Well, there *were* reactions to it. I'll admit everyone who bought it so quick doesn't fill me with joy. Where's the suspicious Majiffy i know and love/loathe?
What is this wimpy Majiffy that wants to look like the coddling good-gus?

There are a number of players I'm waiting on. Mollie being one of them.

I am here I am at this point. here are my thoughts

thinking you and thor and borky are town.

we can probably expect at least 8 more fake claims from matt before he flips vt.

unsure leaning town on mastin

but I want to get my priorities straight so

fery fery fery fery nacho nacho nacho fery nacho where are you guys huhuhuhuhuhuhuh I want to be with you 2

Mollie I'm town this game. What do you think of Pitoli's entrance? I thought it was pretty scummy--specifically the "jeez guys let me post!" reads like scum bartering.

[Desperado]

Holy fuck, the day just started slow down :/

VOTE: Desperado

Toggers goes tomorrow

smells faintly of a bus

if desp is scum this looks like his partner

eta: and whining about the speed of the game lol

when have you ever done that I mean poetic justice

I'm not scum though so it's null

[Desperado]

I'm not acting dumb, I'm just wondering what specifically toog would have to do to move the needle one way or the other.

And you think outting this specific information would be pro-town when I'm trying to

discern

Toog's alignment?

You're right, you're not

acting

dumb.

Well you see I'm not convinced that your line of questioning is pro-town so I'm trying to derail it. Because Toog towntold as soon as he "hammered" Matt, and given how thoroughly you bought Matt's claim I'm having a hard time understanding why you're trying to

discern

Toog's alignment at all.

[Desperado]

Hi

Who said my gambit was useless?

Yeah, fuck you. I just got like 5 reads out of it ty

That might have been me but I got over it a while ago.

@ Majiffy: If there's no scum motivation for Matt's gambit there damn sure isn't any scum motivation for "hammering" him.

[Desperado]

If it were a scum move, it'd be a scum move by newbie scum that saw a more experienced scum pull off something similar before.

Because it couldn't possibly, you know, be the experienced scum who just pulled this shit off that this hypothetical newbscum comes along later to immolate.

VOTE: MAJIFFY

Decent vote, shit reason.

[Desperado]

@ Majiffy: If there's no scum motivation for Matt's gambit there damn sure isn't any scum motivation for "hammering" him.

... Uh,

yeah

there is.

So you think the scum are a bunch of independent third parties and that one of them would risk a D2 policy lynch to hammer Matt on page two?

You aren't making a whole lot of sense right now.

[Desperado]

@ Majiffy: If there's no scum motivation for Matt's gambit there damn sure isn't any scum motivation for "hammering" him.

... Uh,

yeah

there is.

wait what did you even mean, desperado?

That both Matt and Toog both exposed themselves in a way that, in Majiffy's speculative world where the scum are all indy third parties, would not come from scum. Yet he read Matt as town immediately while needing more time to discern Toog's alignment. It's inconsistent.

[Desperado]

@ Majiffy: If there's no scum motivation for Matt's gambit there damn sure isn't any scum motivation for "hammering" him.

... Uh,

yeah

there is.

So you think the scum are a bunch of independent third parties and that one of them would risk a D2 policy lynch to hammer Matt on page two?

You aren't making a whole lot of sense right now.

Yes because

you can get away with it.

Try reading the first fucking four pages again.

This is the part where you explain why you disregarded this possibility regarding Matt.

[Desperado]

This is the part where you explain why you disregarded this possibility regarding Matt.

Which possibility would this be?

That he's scum who knows he can get away with a ludicrous fake claim

[Desperado]

And saying he's experienced isn't a legitimate reason to discount that possibility.

[Desperado]

This is the part where you explain why you disregarded this possibility regarding Matt.

Which possibility would this be?

That he's scum who knows he can get away with a ludicrous fake claim

I HAVE ALREADY FUCKING EXPLAINED THIS AD NAUSEUM PLEASE LEARN TO READ.

No you haven't. You said he isn't newbscum so he wasn't faking it. That's a bullshit reason to think that.

But anyway, you think Toog is town so why isn't aren't you voting Pitoli?

[Desperado]

I'm claiming Glenn that is not a seeking mason, is what's going on.

VOTE: Toogeloo

Bad vote. Reading way too far into it IMO. I suggest either Pitoli or StupendousKey instead.

[Desperado]

@ Majiffy:

It's more like "I've accomplished my original goal of making sure you understood that Toog is town, so now join me on the Pitoli wagon."

[Desperado]

I'm claiming Glenn that is not a seeking mason, is what's going on.

VOTE: Toogeloo

Bad vote. Reading way too far into it IMO. I suggest either Pitoli or StupendousKey instead.

could i ask you a question?

You don't need to ask if you can ask a question

[Desperado]

@ Majiffy:

It's more like "I've accomplished my original goal of making sure you understood that Toog is town, so now join me on the Pitoli wagon."

When I read Pitoli scum, I'll join you on Pitoli wagon.

Until then, stop making me want to policy lynch you for being a fucking moron.

lol you'd never get it through. Pitoli scumtold in his first two posts, didn't you see them?

[Desperado]

Mollie I'm town this game. What do you think of Pitoli's entrance? I thought it was pretty scummy--specifically the "jeez guys let me post!" reads like scum bartering.

her entrance was pretty forgettable. I don't know her so meh

and yeah you feel town to me

thoughts on sangres and majiffy

think I am liking toog

sangres asking me if he can ask a question and then dropping it after Toog claimed Maggie doesn't make any sense to me at all. Don't like Majiffy's inconsistency, don't like Majiffy saying he would PL me for being dumb.

Toog is definitely town.

[Desperado]

Mollie I'm town this game. What do you think of Pitoli's entrance? I thought it was pretty scummy--specifically the "jeez guys let me post!" reads like scum bartering.

her entrance was pretty forgettable. I don't know her so meh

and yeah you feel town to me

thoughts on sangres and majiffy

think I am liking toog

sangres asking me if he can ask a question and then dropping it after Toog claimed Maggie doesn't make any sense to me at all. Don't like Majiffy's inconsistency, don't like Majiffy saying he would PL me for being dumb.

Toog is definitely town.

[Desperado]

hi majiffy

so if you know that matt has a tendency to fake claim then why were you so quick to believe it cos I don't even

Because it didn't play like a scum fake claim.

lol you'd never get it through. Pitoli scumtold in his first two posts, didn't you see them?

No. Refresh my memory.

He asked why everyone was voting me and then when Thor asked him who he thought was scum he said no one, and then whined about not being allowed to post enough after I voted him. It was all terribly scummy.

[Desperado]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Trust Fund

Why are people claiming right now? The Pitoli votes are bad, he's barely even said anything.

Hey you ignored me earlier when I asked you to be specific about why you didn't like my reaction to Matt's claim.

Also this vote sucks.

[Desperado]

Unvote: Pitoli
Vote: StupendousKey

@ Majiffy: No not really. Are you saying he towntold or it was null?

[Desperado]

sangres asking me if he can ask a question and then dropping it after Toog claimed Maggie doesn't make any sense to me at all.

i was gonna ask you why the fuck you were talking to majiffy like you were scumreading him, and then you answered my question with your next post.
"can i ask you a question" is nothing more than unnecessary posturing. sometimes i get a little overexcited when i find things and play with my prey.

Oh ok. Do you have any thoughts on me and Majiffy beyond clarifying my disposition?

[Desperado]

@ Majiffy: No not really. Are you saying he towntold or it was null?

It's completely null. That's how every player that hasn't read and sees a serious, large wagon on a player reacts when they come into a game that just started and has a shitload of pages already.

Oh is it? So you wouldn't have any trouble quoting the other people who reacted similarly.

[Desperado]

@ Majiffy: No not really. Are you saying he towntold or it was null?

It's completely null. That's how every player that hasn't read and sees a serious, large wagon on a player reacts when they come into a game that just started and has a shitload of pages already.

Oh is it? So you wouldn't have any trouble quoting the other people who reacted similarly.

How about the difference in the way Mastin handled my wagon? He wanted to know why I was getting wagoned too,

but then he actually did something about his suspicions and scumhunted someone.

Pitoli's thoughts had to be sussed out and even when asked he couldn't give a single scum read. So why did he ask why I was being wagoned if he wasn't interested in using the answer to find scum?

^Because he's scum and was trying to look busy.

[Desperado]

Desperado wrote:
In post 253, StupendousKey wrote:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Trust Fund

Why are people claiming right now? The Pitoli votes are bad, he's barely even said anything.


Hey you ignored me earlier when I asked you to be specific about why you didn't like my reaction to Matt's claim.

Also this vote sucks.

I didn't like it because it looked opportunistic, especially since his gambit benefited town.

Matt, Toogeloo, Amrun, and Thor are town by the way. Maybe sangres, but I can't tell yet.

-SM

It's a little presumptive to declare that it helped town, and all those town reads look right to me. Why is trust fund scum?

[Desperado]

Look at Posh Mafia, or Xenoblade mafia, or any game I've ever modded, you'll probably find examples.

ICBA.

I meant in this game.

Pretty sure he also explicitly stated that he'd read when the thread activity slowed down.

You're moving your way back to policy lynch territory.

What does he do if it never slows down?

And you seriously couldn't get me policy lynched if you tried.

[Desperado]

I didn't like it

because it looked opportunistic, especially

since his gambit benefited town

.

Scumclaim #2

~Sasha

Here is why Trust Fund is scum, Desperado. Obvious misrep of what I said.

Yeah I can see what you mean, I was just about to point it out.

[Desperado]

With that said you proclaimed Trust Fundscum before he said that, so can you tell me what it was when you said it then?

[Desperado]

Why are you answering for Stupendous when a) he's already pointed that out himself and b) it still doesn't address my question to him?

I'll lynch Jon Doe today too

[Desperado]

Did not. Context or not, there's obvious scumfuck motive there.

hahahaha what. You blatantly misrepped him.

[Desperado]

With that said you proclaimed Trust Fundscum before he said that, so can you tell me what it was when you said it then?

Initial vote was a reaction test, but his fluff posts and recent misrep have solidified my read.

Matt's aggressiveness is super town.

-SM

Really? You gave up and called Trust as scum as your presumptive last words and all you can say now is it was a reaction test?

[Desperado]

huh. NO idea why that first quote is there. But anyways, i didn't see it as a misrep, so whatever.

~sasha

Walk me through how it wasn't a misrep. When he said "I didn't like it" he was referring to my reaction to matt's gambit. You bolded the last sentence, in which he said the gambit helped town, as if he was simultaneously saying he didn't like it but it benefitted town. What you did was the very definition of a misrep.

[Desperado]

Perhaps I should have seperated them and explained, but I thought it was obvious they were two different thoughts. "I didn't like it" is a bad response to your reaction because it's vague and shitty. The second thing is a scumclaim because there's no way for him to know that it benefited town for sure... unless he knew who town was.

That's what I get for doing that post quickly I suppose.

Make sense now?

~sasha

That's a really plausible explanation for what you could have meant. Now if only you had led with that instead of claiming multiple times that you didn't misrep him even though several other people independently called you out on it, I could say you were town. I guess it'll have to be null for now.

Unvote: Stupendous Key
Vote: Jon Doe

Do you have anything to add to the game that doesn't have to do with defending Stupendous?

[Desperado]

Perhaps I should have seperated them and explained, but I thought it was obvious they were two different thoughts. "I didn't like it" is a bad response to your reaction because it's vague and shitty. The second thing is a scumclaim because there's no way for him to know that it benefited town for sure... unless he knew who town was.

That's what I get for doing that post quickly I suppose.

Make sense now?

~sasha

That's a really plausible explanation for what you could have meant. Now if only you had led with that instead of claiming multiple times that you didn't misrep him even though several other people independently called you out on it, I could say you were town. I guess it'll have to be null for now.

Unvote: Stupendous Key
Vote: Jon Doe

Do you have anything to add to the game that doesn't have to do with defending Stupendous?

[Desperado]

Look at Posh Mafia, or Xenoblade mafia, or any game I've ever modded, you'll probably find examples.

ICBA.

I meant in this game.

What does he do if it never slows down?

And you seriously couldn't get me policy lynched if you tried.

Replaces out, like aforementioned players do

all the time regardless of alignment.

And yes, I probably could.

majiffy you better trust my read sangres I mean how many times do I need to fucking prove it

Wut? Are you not reading Sangres as town? Because I'm reading Sangres as pretty clearly obviously town.

Did you post a GIF because you know your claim that "That's the reaction that every player would have" is totally bullshit? Because I already pointed out how Mastin's reaction was different.

And no, you really, really couldn't.

[Desperado]

Throwing shit would imply that you didn't misrep twice with the same misquote. You haven't answered that satisfactorily. In fact you're deflecting with omgzobvtownfrustratedwait bullshit.

I asked you if you had any thoughts that didn't revolve around defending Stupendous and you've done nothing but defend Stupendous since then. Is that your way of saying "No?"

[Desperado]

Throwing shit would imply that you didn't misrep twice with the same misquote. You haven't answered that satisfactorily. In fact you're deflecting with omgzobvtownfrustratedwait bullshit.

I asked you if you had any thoughts that didn't revolve around defending Stupendous and you've done nothing but defend Stupendous since then. Is that your way of saying "No?"

Yeah. I think trust fund is scum, but misrep noted on implying defending Desperado. I could give two shits which scum Trust Fund was having scum theater with. The cabd half doesn't misrep like that, nor is he quite this agro, as any but scum. If you're gonna call me out for tunneling, at least get my target right.

...I know who your target is. But in attacking Trust you are clearly defending Stupendous, and have been in virtually all of your posts. Do I need to quote them to remind you what you've said or something?

[Desperado]

You need to step the fuck away from me before this discussion becomes personal. I can't deal with your level of stupid right now.

Or you're gonna what?

Try to policy lynch me?

I don't give a shit Majiffy.

[Desperado]

Mollie what do you think about Majiffy avoiding all of my questions and calling me stupid?

[Desperado]

You need to step the fuck away from me before this discussion becomes personal. I can't deal with your level of stupid right now.

Or you're gonna what?

Try to policy lynch me?

I don't give a shit Majiffy.

Lord, grant me the ability to forcibly remove you from the game at some point.

If I'm doing my job right it shouldn't be too difficult to convince your scumbuddies to NK me

[Desperado]

Mollie what do you think about Majiffy avoiding all of my questions and calling me stupid?

I think that is majiffy being majiffy.

he isn't in my crosshairs I think you are both town

OK. I know you don't like the Stup wagon so why don't you join me on Jon Doe?

Sugar: Agreed on Sangres and No Brains as town. I think Ellibreth might be scum. Jon Doe is really scummy. Do you see a town block forming soon? Something like amrun-sangres-no brains-mastin-toog-thor-matt?

[Desperado]

Hi guys! Colin here, reporting for duty!

Man, 19 pages already? I can't say I'm surprised, given the playerlist, though!

Sangres, if we could talk about things, that would be great!

~Colin

We're growing a pretty decent town list over here.

Nacho is reading Cabd as kinda sorta town so you're sort of grandfathered in despite being such a scumfuck.

What do you think about the town list I gave in 494?

[Desperado]

We're growing a pretty decent town list over here.

Nacho is reading Cabd as kinda sorta town so you're sort of grandfathered in despite being such a scumfuck.

A scumfuck? Me? What'd I do?

~Colin

Misrepped the shit out of someone and then tried to say you didn't several times before finally offering a plausible explanation.

[Desperado]

Mollie what do you think about Majiffy avoiding all of my questions and calling me stupid?

I think that is majiffy being majiffy.

he isn't in my crosshairs I think you are both town

OK. I know you don't like the Stup wagon so why don't you join me on Jon Doe?

Sugar: Agreed on Sangres and No Brains as town. I think Ellibreth might be scum. Jon Doe is really scummy. Do you see a town block forming soon? Something like amrun-sangres-no brains-mastin-toog-thor-matt?

I think they are all town Sans Toogers but IDK if it can be called a block because mollie is being a bitch and I don't know if I can deal, and matty is thinking I'm scum

~Sugar

She'll come around eventually. Thoughts on Pitoli, Jon Doe, and Ellibreth?

[Desperado]

I have been ready to discuss reads from the get mebbe you missed the whole fery fery fery fery nacho nacho nacho nacho post where are you huhhuhuhuh

I mean how much louder can I get. instead you decided to troll me/us and trust fund instead

3. Amrun
5. Desperado
6. borkjerfkin
7. Majiffy
12. No Brains Here ( DrippingGoofball / Pirate Mollie )
13. Toogeloo
17. Mattp
19. Thor665
21. Trust Fund ( Cabd / Syryana )
23. Sugar Cain ( Nero Cain / Ms Marangal )

^^town

ellibereth and AD i wanna call town but i can't yet

the guy i'm voting is scum
john doe also seems pretty scum

Yeah bork definitely needs to be there. One of Elli/AD is scum IMO. More likely Elli piggybacking on Dan after seeing him get some towncred for being incredulous.

[Desperado]

I'll do my best, Sis! Don't hurt me! Please?
~Colin

Oh my christ can someone vig this bullshit tonight

[Desperado]

I'm town.

Everyone in this game that is competent is reading me as town.

You probably should, too.

I want to be competent. Can I read you as town?

^More votes on this wagon please. You guys can PL stupendous later, let's get scum D1

[Desperado]

Vote: Pitoli

[Desperado]

The reason is they were scum yesterday and they're still scum today.

[Desperado]

Erm, why are people voting Desperado?

Erm, why are people voting Desperado?

They think he's scum.
Who do you think is scum?

No idea for now, I'll come back and read the thread later when it's not moving a mile a minute.

p-edit: goddammit let me post, people.

Never follows up his original question, can't give any scum reads, whines about people voting him before he has a chance to post. This is why they were scum yesterday.

Whether scum started driving or not there were townies on the wagon.

Self-evident fluff

I watch the show but

WHO THE HECK IS SHUMPERT

Irrelevant fluff easily answered by google

I watch the show but

WHO THE HECK IS SHUMPERT

one of the gov's cronies. Anything, any opinions on this game at all??

I really, really didn’t understand the StupendousKey lynch, no matter how many times their posts and the justification for it by other players. I’m thinking scum got to capitalize on the speed of the thread since nobody was going back to check how baseless the SK wagon was??

Worst post in the game by far. Pitoli was active throughout Wednesday night, which means they were reading the thread (and really, really not understanding the Stup lynch) but didn't do anything to stop it. That's active lurking AND gunning for cheap town cred, and it's scummy.

Still not done reading but at page 15 I'm thinking in {Jon Doe, Sugar Cain, RedCoyote} mostly because plenty of other people leaving me with stronger town impressions.

p-edit: wow okay

Already discussed in detail but this set of reads is pretty clearly manufactured. And they whine about someone voting them again.

Enough people, so that you can actually narrow down the list to just us 5?

~Sugar

Sure, for now that's where I want to look.

I feel like you're setting me up for a fall later when I scumread someone not in this list.

^Town wouldn't say that. He's extremely concerned with how he appears to Sugar.

The thing is, a lot of people in this game are dropping what I want to interpret as towntells, but I haven't played with like 80% of the player list so I'm not sure if I'm getting ahead of myself by sorting them town. Actually you know what I probably am but whatever for now~ they can enjoy it before I get paranoid.

Who

do

you have a strong impression on, Sugar?

This is just all over the place. Earlier people were leaving strong town impressions, but now, after Sugar pushed him on it, he's starting to question his own interpretations. It's contrived. And scummy.

[Desperado]

we got the wagon to near fruition with 7 players who hadn't even shown up yet

How original. One of my scum reads disagrees with me wholeheartedly. And votes me because of it...

What? Toog was totally right...you put a lot of effort into your VCA, identified a half dozen votes that were clearly suspect, and then voted GIF based on something that has now been shown to be bullshit.

[Desperado]

Amrun

[Desperado]

Or Toog, and Amrun is Glenn. It doesn't really matter because Toog isn't town for his claim anyway.

[Desperado]

This is odd behavior for GiF. He says he aggressively WhiteKnights what he sees as bad lynches when town ~ every time.

So do you have a quote of GIF actually saying this?

[Desperado]

@ Nero: Toog had it right.

[Desperado]

This is odd behavior for GiF. He says he aggressively WhiteKnights what he sees as bad lynches when town ~ every time.

So do you have a quote of GIF actually saying this?

Yeah. In 868 in the big fucking letters.

Nope. Someone asked him if he defends anyone who is in trouble, and he said pretty much.

He most definitely did not say "I aggressive whiteknight bad lynches as town, every time."

[Desperado]

Based on the quotes you've given us there isn't even any indication that he was limiting himself to his town meta. Looks to me like he's saying he whiteknights bad lynches regardless of alignment.

[Desperado]

@Desperado, Wayne's interpretation makes a whole lot more sense than yours.

No it doesn't.

[Desperado]

So how do you know the scum don't snipe their targets?

[Desperado]

Mollie you said Pitoli's entrance was forgettable yesterday. What do you think about my case?

[Desperado]

I don't hate you Mollie, I like you OUT OF games. In games it legitimately seems like you try to be destructive and anal retentive because you think it somehow helps you. It doesn't though, I promise any redeeming effects you think there are to senseless tunneling don't exist.

pedit: Cool OGML now I'm totally gonna stop this convo man you really got me

pedit2: Call it a general vibe PM, let's just say your BEHAVIOR, the way you go about doing things, which is to be incredibly anal retentive and tunnely, are annoying.

What is the purpose of this line of discussion? You already said that you hate mollie's disposition regardless of alignment, so why are you still talking about this?

[Desperado]

I don't hate you Mollie, I like you OUT OF games. In games it legitimately seems like you try to be destructive and anal retentive because you think it somehow helps you. It doesn't though, I promise any redeeming effects you think there are to senseless tunneling don't exist.

pedit: Cool OGML now I'm totally gonna stop this convo man you really got me

pedit2: Call it a general vibe PM, let's just say your BEHAVIOR, the way you go about doing things, which is to be incredibly anal retentive and tunnely, are annoying.

What is the purpose of this line of discussion? You already said that you hate mollie's disposition regardless of alignment, so why are you still talking about this?

[Desperado]

Why did you even bring it up though?

[Desperado]

Why did you even bring it up though?

[Desperado]

I have no fucking idea what you're talking about , my experience with Mollie isn't even remotely similar to yours

[Desperado]

I was trying to make her understand that she was being unproductive and I was trying to make her see that if she stops maybe town can be more productive

Then I realized she's intentionally being impossible and is fully aware of it because she's a troll

So then I ignored her

That's the exact thought process

Can you quote mollie bring unproductive and intentionally impossible in this game for me?

[Desperado]

Can you quote mollie bring unproductive and intentionally impossible in this game for me?

Oh no

Is this a serious line of thought?

You can't just fucking double iso us and see all of our interactions D1?

Yeah but I'm asking you to do it, because you brought it up. I was here for D1 and did not get an "unproductive and intentionally impossible" impression from Mollie.

[Desperado]

Hey Matt I just did what you asked and almost every single interaction between you and No Brains is with DGB, not mollie

so...what's up?

[Desperado]

But you brought it up again on D2 without any further provocation...

[Desperado]

But you brought it up again on D2 without any further provocation...

[Desperado]

Why is OMGL posting so much after his single post yesterday?

Matt if you're going to ignore her can you just ignore her and shaddup about it

P-edit: thank you.

^Scum projecting

[Desperado]

Why is OMGL posting so much after his single post yesterday?

Matt if you're going to ignore her can you just ignore her and shaddup about it

P-edit: thank you.

^Scum projecting

[Desperado]

It means that you wondered aloud why OGML is posting so much after only having one post D1, when you have also increased your post output by almost 8x (2 D1 vs 15 D2).

[Desperado]

It means that you wondered aloud why OGML is posting so much after only having one post D1, when you have also increased your post output by almost 8x (2 D1 vs 15 D2).

[Desperado]

fucking double posts

[Desperado]

It means that you wondered aloud why OGML is posting so much after only having one post D1, when you have also increased your post output by almost 8x (2 D1 vs 15 D2).

Didn't I say I would post more when I felt the thread would slow down?
OMGL didn't leave us anything yesterday, he was just another senseless vote on a dumbwagon.

The dumb wagon that you claim to have known was dumb as it was happening but didn't do anything to stop?

[Desperado]

Nice post Desperado, thanks.

AJ ~ GiF said he does that always as

TOWN

, sometimes as scum. ALWAYS as town. It's worth the segue to take a look at that.

You know absolutely nothing about GIF Wayne. He is where he is for a reason

~Sugar

You don't have to know somebody to be capable of reading the words they themselves write...

Except GIF never wrote what you said he wrote

[Desperado]

No, he specifically said it wasn't alignment indicative

[Desperado]

Why is everyone saying the like/agree with my pitoli case but not voting it

[Desperado]

MORE OGML votes please

focus focus focus

My pitoli case is much better than your OGML case and I'm annoyed that I asked you to comment on it and all you could muster was "I've never played with them so i dunno."

[Desperado]

The only reason John Doe would have auto Jester hunted like that is if he knew SK wasn't scum. There's NO logical reason a town player would have ever had that cross their mind, AND the setup confusion was faked. Finally, John Doe made a fucking post in the thread yelling at one of the two heads to discuss things in their QT which looked fake as fuck.

Chooo chooo!

MattP that is TERRIBLE.

Get back on OGML.

How the hell are you calling that terrible when its almost a carbon copy of your OGML case?

[Desperado]

Nope. Not looking for a fight. Just saying my peace the same way he decided to say his. I'm done.

Is it really that hard to play without calling people dipshits? Regardless of how that person acted towards you first.

[Desperado]

Do I need to requote my Pitoli case or something? It's really good and deserves more votes.

[Desperado]

I have been ready to discuss reads from the get mebbe you missed the whole fery fery fery fery nacho nacho nacho nacho post where are you huhhuhuhuh

I mean how much louder can I get. instead you decided to troll me/us and trust fund instead

3. Amrun
5. Desperado
6. borkjerfkin
7. Majiffy
12. No Brains Here ( DrippingGoofball / Pirate Mollie )
13. Toogeloo
17. Mattp
19. Thor665
21. Trust Fund ( Cabd / Syryana )
23. Sugar Cain ( Nero Cain / Ms Marangal )

^^town

ellibereth and AD i wanna call town but i can't yet

the guy i'm voting is scum
john doe also seems pretty scum

Majiffy/Trust already flipped town. I still feel really comfortable with everyone else on this list. Forget Doe for today, Pitoli is way scummier and we need to stop bickering and start consolidating.

[Desperado]

I have been ready to discuss reads from the get mebbe you missed the whole fery fery fery fery nacho nacho nacho nacho post where are you huhhuhuhuh

I mean how much louder can I get. instead you decided to troll me/us and trust fund instead

3. Amrun
5. Desperado
6. borkjerfkin
7. Majiffy
12. No Brains Here ( DrippingGoofball / Pirate Mollie )
13. Toogeloo
17. Mattp
19. Thor665
21. Trust Fund ( Cabd / Syryana )
23. Sugar Cain ( Nero Cain / Ms Marangal )

^^town

ellibereth and AD i wanna call town but i can't yet

the guy i'm voting is scum
john doe also seems pretty scum

Majiffy/Trust already flipped town. I still feel really comfortable with everyone else on this list. Forget Doe for today, Pitoli is way scummier and we need to stop bickering and start consolidating.

[Desperado]

MORE OGML votes please

focus focus focus

My pitoli case is much better than your OGML case and I'm annoyed that I asked you to comment on it and all you could muster was "I've never played with them so i dunno."

desp

desp

desp

I want you to look into my eyes and know that I am here for you. okay? you are in my don't lynch don't touch pile if anyone looks at you funny I will eat their liver.

the ogml case is mostly dgb cos I don't them either. and that was dgb posting right there.

let me elaborate on the pitouli case; I think it is decent but the thing is, is some of that could be a playstyle thing. if I had at least 1 game with them I could give you a better response. dgb is pretty adamant about ogml so I don't see our vote moving.

Alright, you take half of the town block I quoted on OGML and I'll take the other half on Pitoli.

Because they're too busy voting town.
What do you think of my Sugar Cain case?

Not too enamored with it. I think they're town and you don't seem too invested in it either so let's rev the Pitoli wagon up together.

[Desperado]

Yeah let me quote it

[Desperado]

Spoiler: Pitoli is scum

Erm, why are people voting Desperado?

Erm, why are people voting Desperado?

They think he's scum.
Who do you think is scum?

No idea for now, I'll come back and read the thread later when it's not moving a mile a minute.

p-edit: goddammit let me post, people.

Never follows up his original question, can't give any scum reads, whines about people voting him before he has a chance to post. This is why they were scum yesterday.

Whether scum started driving or not there were townies on the wagon.

Self-evident fluff

I watch the show but

WHO THE HECK IS SHUMPERT

Irrelevant fluff easily answered by google

I watch the show but

WHO THE HECK IS SHUMPERT

one of the gov's cronies. Anything, any opinions on this game at all??

I really, really didn’t understand the StupendousKey lynch, no matter how many times their posts and the justification for it by other players. I’m thinking scum got to capitalize on the speed of the thread since nobody was going back to check how baseless the SK wagon was??

Worst post in the game by far. Pitoli was active throughout Wednesday night, which means they were reading the thread (and really, really not understanding the Stup lynch) but didn't do anything to stop it. That's active lurking AND gunning for cheap town cred, and it's scummy.

Still not done reading but at page 15 I'm thinking in {Jon Doe, Sugar Cain, RedCoyote} mostly because plenty of other people leaving me with stronger town impressions.

p-edit: wow okay

Already discussed in detail but this set of reads is pretty clearly manufactured. And they whine about someone voting them again.

Enough people, so that you can actually narrow down the list to just us 5?

~Sugar

Sure, for now that's where I want to look.

I feel like you're setting me up for a fall later when I scumread someone not in this list.

^Town wouldn't say that. He's extremely concerned with how he appears to Sugar.

The thing is, a lot of people in this game are dropping what I want to interpret as towntells, but I haven't played with like 80% of the player list so I'm not sure if I'm getting ahead of myself by sorting them town. Actually you know what I probably am but whatever for now~ they can enjoy it before I get paranoid.

Who

do

you have a strong impression on, Sugar?

This is just all over the place. Earlier people were leaving strong town impressions, but now, after Sugar pushed him on it, he's starting to question his own interpretations. It's contrived. And scummy.

[Desperado]

@Desp - actually your quoting of 773 reminded me of it. I'm calling that one paranoia as a town tell. The rest of it is mostly 'pitoli plays weakly' and I feel we've already done one policy lynch, so why rush to a second? Naw, I don't want that wagon - you should come join my wagon.

@Jon Doe - The "case" on OGML is that he was scumhunting. It is an inherently bad case, and I loathe it. Let's speed lynch Sugar and laugh about it post game.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, then. Once you realize this is townNero you're more than welcome to change your mind.

[Desperado]

Half of the pushes this game are annoying and empty headed

I wont say which because I don't want to functionally name call and cause more victim blaming

I know my Pitoli push is in the other half so why aren't you voting it with me yet? Especially since you aren't voting anyone and haven't been for a while

[Desperado]

No that's about the towniest way to replace out I can think of. Scum don't privately ask to be replaced.

[Desperado]

Unvote
Vote: Ellibreth

[Desperado]

What are you guys waiting for then?

[Desperado]

What Mastin's post does:

Lists unlynchable town reads:
Elaborates on lesser town reads and perhaps nulls and weak scum reads:
Votes a scum read with no elaboration:

Tells everyone that game will be won not by lynching scum but by not lynching town.

Individually these actions are fine: Together it plays into the claimed narrative of working from the 'protect town' perspective more than feels necessary. I would have thought at least more words would be spent on an explanation of why mastin has a scumread on me and then perhaps reasoning as to why mastin is voting me over other reads. As it is now, smells of votepark on low content/activity target.

Have you considered asking him to elaborate on his read before jumping to conclusions? I thought the point of the post was to create a town block.

[Desperado]

for a wall poster such as mastin I don't think the inclusion of perhaps a few sentences would have been too tasking.

Also my judgement comes swiftly.

Yeah I get that. But I think the purpose of the post was to build a viable town block, not explain his scum reads.

[Desperado]

I don't think OGML slipped; in fact I think (as several of us have said) that TF isn't even the mafia NK.

OGML did slip because he didn't consider the alternative explanation that JDoe might have vig'ed TF, and therefore actually had info about the NKs from a legitimate town perspective. He FRAMED JDoe and started to tunnel. I called OGML on it and he vanished.

He is scum and will eat delicious brain-soaked rope.

Thor, this quote from Mollie is what you claim is OGML scumhunting. Do you have a response?

[Desperado]

Actually that was DGB but either way.

[Desperado]

Why isn't anyone talking about how hollow No Brains' OGML push is now?

DGB's case revolves around the fact that OGML never considered the possibility that Titus was the vig.

In turn, DGB never considered the possibility that

OGML

was the vig.

On a scale of 1 to cognitive dissonance, how 10 is that?

[Desperado]

What are you talking about

[Desperado]

Stop spamming and explain yourself

[Desperado]

yo what the fuck is going

[Desperado]

And since MattP wasn't on my list of players that suspected TrustFund,

he prob shot chesskid

.

I WILL NOT VOTE FOR OMGL UNLESS YOU SAY YES AND IMMEDIATELY FULLCLAIM.

I was hoping to avoid this but YES

We shot chesskid

YAY the applause and the glory

This shot was crumbed at dawn.

Also I was going after the Trust Fund kill because (1) I knew OGML was scum and you dummies weren't sheeping me fast enough and I got royally bored watching you dick around while I knew he was scum and (2) I was pretty sure that the SK killed Trust Fund and that's who we were going to shoot tonight and we're pretty sure we KNOW who it is.

We wanted to

LYNCH OGML
SHOOT THE SK

We are Michonne.

We send walkers.

Vote: No Brains Here

[Desperado]

VENMAR EXPLICITLY STATED

You're scum or Venmar is on crack because we're Michonne and we sent our walkers to kill chesskid your buddy and OGML's buddy.

Why did you repeatedly referring to shooting chesskid then

[Desperado]

i don't even know what to say

[Desperado]

Why did you repeatedly referring to shooting chesskid then

Tradition.

:getout:

[Desperado]

Yes mollie I'm being serious.

[Desperado]

None of this had to happen. You guys could have kept your mouth shut and killed him tonight. Why didn't you?

[Desperado]

Yes mollie I'm being serious.

what is bothering you?

I just don't understand why you claimed after Matt unvoted. OGML took an authoritative tone and you should have let him--he still wouldn't have led the lynch today, in the end, and you get to shoot him unfettered. I don't understand your reaction here from a town vig point of view.

The real problem with this situation is I don't think Venmar will ever be able to appropriately address this situation and I don't like it. Something's rotten in Georgia.

[Desperado]

I don't understand your reaction here from a town vig point of view.

Again.

(1) Titus is town, we wanted to avoid a mislynch.
(2) Scum fakeclaiming vig is rare, we thought OGML may be BP so that we couldn't kill him tonight and our shot isn't guaranteed.
(3) We had plans to target the player we deduced is the SK.

But the Titus wagon didn't even make sense and shouldn't have come to fruition regardless.

Unvote
Vote: OGML

[Desperado]

They thought you were lying because Venmar didn't respond to them. Likely because he was consulting his backup mods/other on site people on how to approach the issue.

[Desperado]

Unvote
Vote: Ellibreth

[Desperado]

Unvote
Vote: ActionDan

Unvote
Vote: Ellibreth

[Desperado]

You need to stop considering your power as something you can control. You have no power over who gets killed with the walkers, you only influence it. I think the chesskid getting whacked went to your head and you aren't willing to admit you have less power than you think you do.

I have:

1. admitted that there was a hidden mechanic where our kill might not go through.
2. said that there might be more than 1 herder
3. agreed with you

why are you misrepping and trying to discredit me?

He isn't misrepping you. You just gave Nacho shit for "forgetting" about the "confirmed vig" when that isn't your role.

[Desperado]

You need to stop considering your power as something you can control. You have no power over who gets killed with the walkers, you only influence it. I think the chesskid getting whacked went to your head and you aren't willing to admit you have less power than you think you do.

I have:

1. admitted that there was a hidden mechanic where our kill might not go through.
2. said that there might be more than 1 herder
3. agreed with you

why are you misrepping and trying to discredit me?

He isn't misrepping you. You just gave Nacho shit for "forgetting" about the "confirmed vig" when that isn't your role.

[Desperado]

You need to stop considering your power as something you can control. You have no power over who gets killed with the walkers, you only influence it. I think the chesskid getting whacked went to your head and you aren't willing to admit you have less power than you think you do.

I have:

1. admitted that there was a hidden mechanic where our kill might not go through.
2. said that there might be more than 1 herder
3. agreed with you

why are you misrepping and trying to discredit me?

He isn't misrepping you. You just gave Nacho shit for "forgetting" about the "confirmed vig" when that
your role.

we vig killed. <------ makes us a confirmed vig even if another nk does not go through.

that is the info we have at this time.

plz don't do this to me

Don't do what? You aren't a vig, you have a more influence over a non-factional mechanic than a VT does. You're lashing out at people who are accurately assessing your role based on the information you've provided, and you should stop it.

[Desperado]

Dan and Elli are both scum. 1a and 1b least genuine reactions to all of the claims + their interaction on the Stup wagon. We've already got 3 townies on Elli so what are the rest of you waiting for?

[Desperado]

I'm reading as promised, my friends. I'm shocked and amazed that pitoli's slot wasn't lynched on sight for everything she said on page 31. For our metalovers, I just got out of a game with her as scum and she played exactly the same way. This is just a teaser, but something pretty gnarly is going to have to happen over the next 55 pages for me not to jump all over this slot.

Do you think Pitoli-scum would privately ask the mod to be replaced?

[Desperado]

Dan and Elli are both scum. 1a and 1b least genuine reactions to all of the claims + their interaction on the Stup wagon. We've already got 3 townies on Elli so what are the rest of you waiting for?

Does that jive with this post?:

dan and elli i dare you to lolhammer with no claim

i dare u

think of all the rage

I agreed with whoever posted early D2 that this makes at least one if not both Dan and Elli town.

I think the best you could argue is that it clears one as town. It certainly doesn't make them both town. If I had to pick one as town I'd say Dan.

[Desperado]

Amrun, click the link (Mini 1464).

Desperado, I haven't got that far yet, but she replaced out of the game I just referenced as scum who was getting battered too badly.

Also, someone please tell me immediately who waynegg is. He is not listed on the OP.

Mod

, please tell the hydras to post from their accounts or, at the bare minimum, list all the players in the hydra in the OP, please. It's completely unacceptable that a player is allowed to consistently post in here and I have no idea what slot they are.

Wayne and Titus used to be Jon Doe. Then wayne got ejected so Titus is by himself now.

Sugar, they already did. Michonne, Town Herder

[Desperado]

If you are looking for people to sheep, I would suggest MattP, OGML, Desperado, or Amrun. No Brains is pretty much conf-town, but they have a really bad tunnel problem.

We don't have a tunnel problem.

You

have a IIoA problem getting bogged down in flavor.

Sheeping MattP will lead to a really fun game ending in a loss.

DGB what are you talking about? Mollie has been begging toog to talk about flavor all day. Now it's an IIoA problem?

[Desperado]

Not to mention that she's enamored with the suffocation kill flavor when Venmar has confirmed in thread that the only kill flavor that matters is via walkers. Suffocation doesn't have to make sense.

[Desperado]

[L-3] Ellibereth: Thor665, Desperado, Sangres, Amrun, Toogeloo, borkjerfkin, No Brains Here

Holy shit this wagon is sexy.

[Desperado]

Need more than an empty quote please

[Desperado]

Getting lucky doesn't mean it was right. Associations are better done with dead scum. Yet you don't seem keen on that analysis.

Well guess what? We don't have any dead scum yet.

So chesskid3 wasn't scum?

VOTE: Sugar Cain

@Aj, Common sense says i is highly unlikely Sugar and I are scum together.

Yo this vote sucks. That was a blatant town slip

[Desperado]

Yo this vote sucks. That was a blatant town slip

Is it though, as I sit debating it - who is town and forgets there's a dead scum that can be mined for info?
Why do you think it isn't just a derp tell?

They are either town who didn't care about fact checking of scum faking not knowing their buddy is dead. I think it the former

[Desperado]

No it isn't.

[Desperado]

Yo this vote sucks. That was a blatant town slip

Is it though, as I sit debating it - who is town and forgets there's a dead scum that can be mined for info?
Why do you think it isn't just a derp tell?

They are either town who didn't care about fact checking of scum faking not knowing their buddy is dead. I think it the former

So they can be town and honestly forget something but it's impossible to be scum and honestly forget something?

When "something" is "one of their scum buddies" then yeah, I don't think it's reasonable to expect scum to honestly forget that one of their teammates died overnight.

[Desperado]

I've been a PR (scum and town) and forgot to use my power as both alignments - doesn't that just make me a forgetful derp and say nothing about my alignment?

Yeah it does. What does that have to do with genuinely forgetting that scum died n1?

[Desperado]

I'm just showing that I am capable of forgetting my *role*.
At that point I have a pretty high suspension of disbelief for someone to forget a kill or a teammate.

I mean, a dead scum is basically just as important to town as it is to scum- why do you think the one would forget and the other not?

I don't think a dead scum N1 is important to the town at all, and I think scum would be less likely to forget that chesskid was dead than town because chesskid being dead is more important to the scum's wincon than the town at this juncture.

[Desperado]

I mean, Sugar is even saying he ISOed said role to look for scum info at this point.
That is pretty impressive to then forget if town, and I don't think it's ...less believable(? struggling for right word choice here) that he would forget a dead scumbuddy.
No?

It's really not that impressive. If he ISOed him 10 days ago and found nothing it's reasonable for Nero to have momentarily forgotten that he was scum.

[Desperado]

I don't think a dead scum N1 is important to the town at all, and I think scum would be less likely to forget that chesskid was dead than town because chesskid being dead is more important to the scum's wincon than the town at this juncture.

I'll disagree with you on this, but I can see where you're coming from.

Ditto.

Elli do you plan on reacting to the wagon on you at any point?

[Desperado]

Titus:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=28017

^Click that link, ISO Nero, take notes.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28987

^Then click that link and ISO Neroball. It's mostly Nero with some DGB thrown in.

Come back and tell us which version of Nero we're seeing here.

[Desperado]

Titus:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=28017

^Click that link, ISO Nero, take notes.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28987

^Then click that link and ISO Neroball. It's mostly Nero with some DGB thrown in.

Come back and tell us which version of Nero we're seeing here.

[Desperado]

I exist :/

and I don't flail, I melt-down. It isn't pretty

~Sugar

Yes you do exist, but Nero's an open book and, at least for me, you aren't.

[Desperado]

Titus:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=28017

^Click that link, ISO Nero, take notes.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28987

^Then click that link and ISO Neroball. It's mostly Nero with some DGB thrown in.

Come back and tell us which version of Nero we're seeing here.

Is it the post length and explanations I'm supposed to be noticing?

Mostly yeah. Did those links have any influence on your read?

[Desperado]

Do you have a game that has more than D1 scum? D1 I find is one of the least telling days and Nero got day killed on D2.

Not that I played in, no.

[Desperado]

Mostly yeah. Did those links have any influence on your read?

I'd need to go look at a larger sample size to see if I felt it held true - I also am not fond of a hydra being part of the example set.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Scum Nero

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Town Nero

I'm not sure I'm buying this as a reliable tell.

It's not an end all be all meta read. There is a fundamental disconnect between what Titus is seeing and what Sangres/Mastin/myself are seeing re: Nero, and I thought an example of his play might help bridge the gap.

[Desperado]

Mostly yeah. Did those links have any influence on your read?

I'd need to go look at a larger sample size to see if I felt it held true - I also am not fond of a hydra being part of the example set.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Scum Nero

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Town Nero

I'm not sure I'm buying this as a reliable tell.

It's not an end all be all meta read. There is a fundamental disconnect between what Titus is seeing and what Sangres/Mastin/myself are seeing re: Nero, and I thought an example of his play might help bridge the gap.

[Desperado]

What the fuck guys.

You don't lynch uncc'ed PRs.

Looking at you Nacho. this happens to be a maxim of yours.

That's a pretty silly policy

[Desperado]

Then why are you hesitant to make it

[Desperado]

Let's just go back to lynching Elli. He's still scum.

[Desperado]

Spoiler: 20,000 Words That Everyone Needs to Read

I kind of skimmed over the last twenty pages because I was half-here during that time, but I consider myself fully caught up at this point. I've included my notes in here as I read over the game. These notes aren't necessarily intended for your consumption. They're my thoughts as I went through the game. Some of them are outdated, some are redundant, and there's no spell checking in here. You should only read it if you want a deeper insight as to where I am coming from in my reads. With those precautions out of the way:

Notes

Trust Fund = Andrea/townie killed (suffocated ... mafia?)
chesskid = Shumpert/goon killed (walkers ... NBH?)
Majiffy = Rick/Redirector killed (sniper ... ogml?)
Sugar = "we are a role-blocker silly"
Amrun = Glenn
Toog = Maggie
StupendusKey = Oscar/VT
JohnDoe = softclaim (#753)
Matt = Another PR claim (#1444)/(#1827)
OMGL = Merle Dixon/Vigilante
Titus = Morales/VT (#1697)
DGB = Michonne/Vig (#1850)
Metal Sonic = VT (#2491 real?)
sangres = Tyreese/VT (#2715)

[L-6] Desperado: Sangres, Mattp, borkjerfkin, Amrun, Sugar Cain, StupendousKey.

The first five votes are all professional zombie-killers, who work well as a unit. The sixth voter, on the other hand, who brought Desperado half way to being lynched, not so much. Regardless of Desperado's alignment, there be scum.

I like this comment, and I can see why StupendousKey caught the most support yesterday.

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Is this a perspective slip

You're kind of late to the party in pointing this out.

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Turkeloo is p town for seeking mason comments.

mastin's probably town.

I like your additions so far.

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Not seeking a Mason partner btw, just wanted a way to break some ice. Hell, you could have Gleen on your scum safe list. Doesn't matter. First day of the game, was willing to give any person who claimed Glenn a pass just because my role was Maggie.

I kind of like this. This is out of the blue, and it makes me feel good about both of the player slots (Amrun & Toog). Given the flips we've had so far and the flavor, these are both main characters that I think would have town roles associated with them.

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I'll lynch Jon Doe today too

Huh, this seems kind of random in a bad way.

Walk me through how it wasn't a misrep. When he said "I didn't like it" he was referring to my reaction to matt's gambit. You bolded the last sentence, in which he said the gambit helped town, as if he was simultaneously saying he didn't like it but it benefitted town. What you did was the very definition of a misrep.

I like this point though.

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and, as much as I don't like SK right now, I really don't like how fast the wagon is going, and I really, really do not like how they aren't really doing anything to keep it from actually happening

This is scummy.

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Having read up to post #124, I understand this wagon

Yet you didn't vote...?

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I think they are all town Sans Toogers but IDK if it can be called a block because mollie is being a bitch and I don't know if I can deal, and matty is thinking I'm scum

This is over the top.

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Toog (something similar I picked up from Toog's "searching masons" shenanigans that smelled of lyncher or some other garbage role)

Good point.

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Oh my christ can someone vig this bullshit tonight

You took the words right out of my mouth.

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Ok. I read.

I still don't get why you aren't voting.

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This is getting ridiculous. Either we have a hyperactive town or this thread is being bogged down deliberately by scum.

Lol, no, this is not scum "bogging down" the thread. What gave you that idea? This is a bunch of people messing around, alignment-neutral.

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pitoli could be scum but it's like 2 posts so don't bother reading that?

Huh?

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Looking at motivation here. I see no town motivation. I see exactly what he alluded to ~ gambit. It works to give him town cred while at the same time looking for (and finding?) a PR for NK. Claim yourself is fine, stupid IMO, but fine. Coaxing someone who could easily not be vanilla to do the same...nah. Why isn't this a hot topic?

In a sense, you are right. I kind of agree with you and NBH when y'all say there is something funny going on with Toog. I'm not convinced Toog is doing something sinister yet though, it seems too wholesome. I don't really want to dig too deep into it, but suffice it to say that I will give Toog the benefit of the doubt. I usually read him as scum when he's not (same with Amrun, ironically). I like the way you are thinking though.

Hey bork

A four bragger and you hit for the cycle!

I seriously lol'd at this.

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RC considering my claim was bs please tell me how that affects your previous quotes of me

I'm not going to go NBH's route with this. I don't think it's a scum thing necessarily. What I do think is scummy is you acting as though you shouldn't have to claim flavor. Even that wouldn't be too bad, but you had the audacity to go off on Desperado for asking you about it. You knew your claim was fake yet you still criticized someone that was asking you valid questions about it.

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Whether scum started driving or not there were townies on the wagon.

What an utterly useless filler comment to make consistent with your scum meta. Replacing out isn't a good sign either for this slot.

I really, really didn’t understand the StupendousKey lynch, no matter how many times their posts and the justification for it by other players. I’m thinking scum got to capitalize on the speed of the thread since nobody was going back to check how baseless the SK wagon was??

Okay, if this is your opinion, why are you not breaking the wagon down for everyone? Explaining who the most guilty parties are?

other people leaving me with stronger town impressions.

How is this at all consistent with your claim that the SK wagon was subject to "scum capitalizing on the speed of the game"?

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How do you have a town-read on someone who hasn't posted at all?

How is it possible that you:

1) Create a test for pitoli.
2) Have Matt call you out for it.
3) Respond to Matt that it is, in fact, a test.
4) Have pitoli respond to it.
5) And after all this, you still screw up on the player that "hasn't posted at all"?

I think I'll give you town point for this because I cannot imagine you being so incompetent as scum.

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At least one of Dan/Ellie town

Great point. I don't know how overall helpful this is, but I love that you approached this from the angle of one of them being town rather than being scum. I agree with your 100%. At least one of them is town. Do you think we should spare a lynch on either of them because of this?

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Well that's 1/2 for No Brains Here. We had a scum read on chesskid (mostly because his customary policy DGB-vote lacked aggression and conviction, like he was afraid of pushing it too hard). Trust Fund was town read by mollie and scum read by DGB.

I thought y'all had Majiffy as town. Why not mention this?

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The reason is they were scum yesterday and they're still scum today.

Although I like your vote, you should've explained it better here. This is kind of shady. There's nothing stopping you from fully explaining why you have a scumread on pitoli here.

That said, you made it up with your post 846, so I retract the above.

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So you think its a fakeclaim?

Des, why did you ignore this?

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I don't think I would have softclaimed a PR to DGB in the context I did as scum

But what do I know?

>Actually saying this to try and score townpoints

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I'm not really interested in rushing the day like you derpwads did yesterday. I know that our vote doesn't mean he'll be lynched ASAP but I also don't see a reason to move it right this second.

So scummy. God forbid you put your vote to use. Lest you forget, you were on that wagon too.

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"You derpwads?" Nice job passing the buck. Your vote counted just as much as everyone else's in getting Key lynched, but you're trying to abdicate responsibility. And now you won't join a wagon on someone you've been sniping at for a whole page because they're at L-6 and you don't want to rush things?

Agree 100%

You just admitted to knowing Trust Fund was the mafia kill.

Very interesting. I missed this. This is a solid catch, I think.

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She did flavor analysis. That's not a slip genius. You slipped though.

Lol, why are you panicking so much?

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Sure, sure... because good mods let you hunt scum by their own flavor, right? "Actual analysis" off of flavor is probably in my list for stupidest things I've ever heard playing mafia. Flavor is an entity which you can read if you enjoy reading it, nothing more.

Good comment.

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You are trying to frame him because he's the scum's designated easy lynch for today.

Bad rationale and an overall bad post. You don't explain why JD is an "easy" lynch, as if that's even a scumtell anyways (which it isn't). Your "vowing to lurk" point is laughably bad in the face of all the players that haven't really given a lot of content (myself included). This is a bad, bad post.

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Why is OMGL posting so much after his single post yesterday?

Lol, this is like a bad rhetorical question in a poor attempt to get OGML more votes.

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The dumb wagon that you claim to have known was dumb as it was happening but didn't do anything to stop?

#REKT

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Jesus Christ Nero, what are you doing?

Matty is town, stop that

Disgustingly bad post.

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I was saying that OMGL is scum for not considering that Jon Doe might have information NOT ABOUT THE SCUM KILL, BUT ABOUT THE VIG'S KILL. He just wanted to frame Jon Doe. That is not a townie mindset.

Nah, too much of a stretch. Nice try in trying to justify this after the fact, lol.

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I could see someone initially making the argument OGML made, and then going back and thinking about it more and realizing the argument is not sound.

There's something very slimy about your posts, but I can't put my finger on it. Just, like, you always come in to pick up the scraps or something.

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Sugar Cain - why do you think I'm voting him?

Lol.

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Well when you ask "why shouldn't I vote you" it sounds a lot like you are still considering us an option to vote

Hah, what is this crazy paranoia? Why are you constantly freaking out everytime you post?

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Srs question about why I'm not in the bloc :'(

That you said this twice has me skeptical as to your motivations.

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Like seriously, people are going to come into this game and call brains, myself, and sugar scum. Because it's easy. Period.

That may be, but that's not on the players, that's on you three. Especially when you're sitting here acting butthurt over mollie for God only knows what.

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I'm so obvtown

STOP CALLING YOURSELF OBVTOWN IN A NON-SARCASTIC WAY. I hate it. Your claim only carries you so far, babe.

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Correct, or I would have advised her not to because flavor doesn't apply here.

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Why is everyone saying the like/agree with my pitoli case but not voting it

No idea.

My pitoli case is much better than your OGML case and I'm annoyed that I asked you to comment on it and all you could muster was "I've never played with them so i dunno."

You are probably the most townie player here, btw.

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AND you're saying it's derp that I'm on OGML and yet I don't have a good read of OGML so why would I NOT be on him right now if I don't have a clear scumread? It's day 2 and day 1 was 24 hours long. I'm trying to sift through 20+ players and figure out their alignment. It's not easy especially when the majority of players have 10 or less posts and have been completely ignored.

This post of Matt's reads as genuinely perturbed.

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'We didn't read your posts, because you're scum.'

'Your reasoning doesn't matter, because OGML is scum.'

'You're saying scum wouldn't scumhunt? What do you know about the setup, scum?'

'Thorscum defending OGMLscum, scumtastic!'

I missed too much fun in this game.

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Shane as SK and Gov Mafia makes the most sense to me at the moment.

This is good, valuable analysis of the flavor so far (in the sense of which kill would be more likely to belong to what roles).

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Wake up people, we're posting a mile a minute and doing and accomplishing nothing.

This seems obvious to me trying to enter the game itself but being stymied by the weight of all this trivial back and forth. I think it's because it's summer and some of the players in this game have all day to play on their computers, but I cannot jump right into this game. I certainly would feel the same pressure upon checking the site, seeing that there is 8 - 12 new pages in a game, and being immediately turned off (regardless of alignment).

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Thor, why the heavy defense of OMGL? Offering sheep suspects, telling people who their votes should be on. Assuming we'll fail at our lynch and then turn around and sheep him. Something ain't right with this one.

I've been kind of holding on to a townread of you for a while, but this post really shoves me in the other direction. I want to like you, but I am really uncomfortable with this post. You do realize NBH is doing many of the same things you are harping on Thor for here, right? This reads to me like a Muslim telling a Jew to that his side is guilty of bombing his people. Well, yeah, but so are you. I would've thought you'd be able to see through this.

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I feel like, with 20 players in the game, conversations have been saturated on like 4 of them. I nearly had an aneurysm reading 20 pages of John Doe or OGML are scum more votes pl0x posts.

You ought to come in a push it more.

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Okay so first of all I'm guessing that Elli AND AD are scum. They would have more fun as scum together and I'm pretty sure they would've talked about the quickhammer gambit in thread instead of letting chesskid goad them into it after Elli already promised the quickhammer and AD declared intent to hammer.

No, I disagree. I don't think this makes too much sense, especially given the low amount of posts for all three of them today.

Could you be a little less subtle and tell me why you're reading him town?

I think he's being sarcastic.

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The game really isn't that big, people are just being ludicrous.

I am in multiple games and I am not taken by the style of rapid, high-levels of posting. I really only stayed in the game due to the fact that the mechanic seemed interesting and I liked some of the players, but I would take myself out if I could go back in time.

Given that I have made a commitment and already invested into 60 pages of it, I will stick around though.

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omebody calling this a scumtell in three...two...one...

It is, actually. I just got out of a game where scumpitoli replaced out due to the fact that she was facing too much pressure.

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No that's about the towniest way to replace out I can think of. Scum don't privately ask to be replaced.

Nah, it doesn't make a lick of difference whether it is private or public.

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Claiming ActionDan town, and considering Elli scum now but not wanting to vote him.

Unvote;
Vote: sangres

This is a pretty solid post, strangely. You're really speaking to me as town, Toog. I'm a little weirded out by this. I almost get the feeling I should vote you for this.

Also, this post is comedy gold. It's such a great screenshot. I also love how Steve is looking up at your Avatar. It's like it's actually you!

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Yes, Amrun plans to make it so.

Whoa. Where the heck did this come from? I don't like the randomness of this.

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Basically, via a townbloc and by POE'ing the names not on there. Now, granted, obviously we'll still be aiming to lynch scum, but the important bit is the townbloc.

All in all, I like this post. I wish you would've been more vocal about what separates AD from all of your other reads.

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Why does a list make someone town?

Decent question, but I don't like that you didn't follow up with your own analysis.

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Things only town would say

A brief How To by Nero

Nope.

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Also If mastin scum I suspect buddies are all in bottom half of that tier list maybe barring one.

Also I think that post more likely to come from scum than town mastin

This is so empty. How come it took someone voting you to get you to post anything? Why are you so critical of mastin's post without really giving us anything to chew on?

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Honestly, why don't we just have Titus state yes or no if he was responsible for the Majiffy kill at this point. I know one of the No Brains slot told him not to claim it, but doesn't most of the argument on both sides hinge on whether or not Titus' slot killed someone that night, and he's already claimed to have not killed Trust Fund.

I don't get this. What difference does this make? Does he have some sort of posting requirement to tell the truth or something?

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But OGML saw blood in the water and tried to nail JD to the wall for it without considering other reasons JD may have had to say it.

Come on, bork. What other reason, seriously? That they were going on flavor? Titus can't even articulate the rationale behind it. And don't give me this "the other head did it". Hydras that aren't talking to one another is not something I believe at all, especially when it comes to voting.

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I am

Merle Dixon, Vigilante

and I killed Majiffy last night.

Overall, I'm much more comfortable with this claim that I am with Milton. I can see Merle as a Vig (although I could also very much see him as third party). That said, he is confirmable and the town can use this.

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Wait, let's just make sure we're being rational here. Titus came immediately into the day with the comment about a TF mafia kill. TF ended up being the mafia kill. That's incredibly scummy, right?

Yes, and I like this post and your general reaction to OGML's claim.

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Nacho could probably handle it, but I'd slit my wrists if I were on a scumteam with waynegg/titus.

Cute, but that doesn't speak to your alignment at all.

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Mod: Can we get a prod on GuyinFreezer?

Lol, I like how Amrun asks you about you not voting anyone and this is your response. What the heck?

I'm Morales.

This fits as a VT, it would also probably make a decent fakeclaim.

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Why isn't anyone talking about how hollow No Brains' OGML push is now?

DGB's case revolves around the fact that OGML never considered the possibility that Titus was the vig.

In turn, DGB never considered the possibility that

OGML

was the vig.

On a scale of 1 to cognitive dissonance, how 10 is that?

Although this is a good point, it doesn't really make me suspect NBH much more. It's a good point because it should spur NBH to comment, but I NBH could've very easily been tunnelling as town.

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Why did you not immediately vote him then? instead of asking mattp if he was ccing?

First good point AD has made this game, I think.

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Actually I CCd it pretty damn blatantly

Name?

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Why were you pressuring multiple players to role claim?

Explain how that was a good thing.

Uh, so he knows who to shoot...?

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We shot chesskid

I do not get this... you shot chesskid with zombies?

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Venmar confirmed flavor don't matter for kills

LOL, NO. Is this serious? Mod obviously just meant there is no clues in the flavor text itself.

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We are Michonne. We send walkers.

Two things about this that don't sit well with me. If you killed chesskid with your walkers, then what did the NPC walkers do last night? Are you arguing that it didn't kill anyone?

The second thing is that Michonne's walkers have their jaws taken out. They cannot rip anyones throats out. Michonne uses them to get around, not for attacking. This is a fakeclaim or Michonne is a third party, I think.

But if they were third party, why would they claim? Hmmm... it still doesn't seem town at all.

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vote:Matt P?

Horrible post.

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None of this had to happen. You guys could have kept your mouth shut and killed him tonight. Why didn't you?

This. This is what town NBH would've done.

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(1) He might have some power like BP - why else would scum claim vig???
(2) We're pretty sure we found the SK and that's who we wanted to shoot tonight.

1) How would a BP protect against a zombie bite to the throat, lol? Also, why not just shoot him twice?
2) What? So you are saying someone besides OGML is the SK? Why didn't you just focus your attacks on that person and kill OGML during the night...

(1) Titus is town, we wanted to avoid a mislynch.
(2) Scum fakeclaiming vig is rare, we thought OGML may be BP so that we couldn't kill him tonight and our shot isn't guaranteed.
(3) We had plans to target the player we deduced is the SK.

1) You don't know Titus is anything. If OGML is an SK as you say, then what does he know about Titus' alignment?
2) You could've shot him twice if you were so sure.
3) Again, you are not being clear who the SK is you are referring to. If it's OGML, then this doesn't make sense. If it isn't OGML, why not just say who it is?

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- Yes. Like I said, flavour is irrelevant, but in the case of deaths to the horde, the flavour will make it obvious for which people died to it. ( deaths that are described as death to a "walker" for example )

This lends creditability to NBH, and I want to believe Michonne is town, but a lot of things aren't adding up for me. Who is this SK read they have? Why are they afraid to share it? Why would a BP stop a zombie kill? Can they influence the hoarde every night? Is it a percentage thing? Michonne's zombies don't have teeth/jaws.

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How likely is it that there could be a role that influences the people zombies kill + a town vig independent of that?

This is a question that should've been asked a long time ago.

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We can try to herd the zombie horde to our target, no guarantee this will work. And dear god forgive me, I just noticed - there is a note saying that we may or may not be the sole proprietors of this power.

This is too vague... you don't have like a percentage chance or something like that?

OMGL's kill wasn't walker-related so his role doesn't work like ours at all.

Why is that?

Because your two kills don't necessarily have anything to do with one another? Merle never would be able to influence zombies. With Michonne, I can see that point of view, but I still have questions.

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For two, she kept walkers with her, but she destroyed their capability of attacking other players.

Finally! Toog gets more townpoints.

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tell me what you think of this: merle is the traitor

Nah, doesn't make much sense. I could buy Andrea as a traitor, or maybe that father/son duo. Merle doesn't really fit the bill, I think. He was kind of forced into his situation.

why do you think that ogml has to be the SK? cos he is claiming he has a nk?

Y'all keep implying this... who is the SK read you have then? And where did the third kill come from?

It seems strange to me that we are townies with a killing role (even if not 100% predictable, that's still a town killing role) that appears to function INDEPENDENTLY of a "straight up 100% success rate vigilante" since both OGML and us successfully dispatched our targets last night.

In a large game? It doesn't seem strange to me. Especially given that we have no proof that there's an SK here, just a bunch of speculation on your part.

where did I say that there was another SK?

Because you are flipflopping on whether OGML is an SK or scum!

it wasn't until the very end of last season that he finally did something positive for the group.

What are you talking about "very end"? For at least 4 or 5 episodes he was at the prison! Then he took Michonne to go kill her because he assumed that's what Rick wanted and ended up letting her go too.

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Brain's flavor analysis is persuasive and the so called vig is deliberately shooting active players. Shooting n1should be reserved for lurkers or people who are known scum. Notice OMGL never said why Majiffy was scummy just merely he was the scummiest active player.

Even if I agree with everything you said here, how exactly does this mean that OGML isn't a vig?

Flavor wouldn't be totally irrelevant when the host recommended players be familiar with the TV show Walking Dead.

Eh, fair point. It may just mean that they'd enjoy it/appreciate it more though.

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Furthermore, beyond the meta, there's the (lack of) content in them; his posting is largely shallow and empty. Heck, his entire reason for voting me is very largely OMGUS in nature, because I voted him. Of all my scumreads, none are stronger than my scumread on him.

I don't really accept this. Not a lot of people are clamoring for your AD read, so maybe you're not really putting the effort in? I read AD as scum too, but I wouldn't do it on the back of something like this. This is just kind of weak.

Meaning, he already knew. Meaning, he had access to that information. Meaning, he's scum.

This is much more salient, but I still kind of disagree. Maybe it's because I have the luxury of hindsight, maybe it's because I don't have as emotional of a connection to this game as a lot of the other players do, maybe it's because I know the flavor, maybe it's because I bothered to go back and read over the setup rules after NBH claimed... but this was all kind of common sense. AD read NBH as town and OGML as scum prior to NBH's claim. Of course he's going to come in with that bias intact and look for reasons to keep this belief strong.

I mean, I say all this having just reacted negatively to NBH, but as cautious as I am of her claim, my understanding of it is fluid. Honestly, I probably don't see the scum rationale for her to claim it. It would be a bit too risky for too little potential upside.

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yes. you are. there is no way in hell ogml is town. unless you think town has 2 vigs.

But you're not really a vig though... Your supposed night action relies on luck as best as I can figure out.

why are you misrepping and trying to discredit me?

How is he misrepping you? You're the one that keeps calling yourself a vig.

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Raise your right hand and swear that as vig you've never targeted someone you intentionally didn't mention during the game day.

Good point.

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I think the best you could argue is that it clears one as town. It certainly doesn't make them both town. If I had to pick one as town I'd say Dan.

Amrun mentioned this earlier and I am inclined to go with it as well. Unfortunately Elli he wound up getting wagonned, so if he flips town then this is kind of pointless. Still, it's solid information that you can bank on.

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Mollie/DGB, claim your ROLE name NOW!

Lol, fake.

it's pretty damn fucking obvious that we are playing around and using it as a means to look like you are contributing when, really you aren't is just as anti-town as us talking to each other in thread.

Obvious hell. You are arguing with your head in the confines of the game over a read. That is unacceptable play. As I explained, how is a player supposed to read that? If I say that you have a townread on Matt, then one head will say "Nope, look at this vote". If I say you have a scumread on Matt, then the other head will say "Nope, that was the other head...".

So the normal player is trapped because you can flipflop on a moment's notice and just always blame it on a this head or that head.

What's more, I can't even say it's scummy because you think arguing with your hydra in the thread is a good thing, lol. As if this game needs more posts.

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Sugar and RC and OGML and Thor have PRs

This is scummy.

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I think suffocating someone is just as generic a killing flavor as shooting someone through the head. If anyone was going to suffocate another player though, it'd probably be more likely to be done by the Governor or Shane, or possibly Milton, if we are talking strictly from a flavor perspective since Shumpert and Martinez are mostly always seen using automatic weapons.

I agree with this. Further, I like your tl;dr a lot, haha.

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VOTE: Toogoloo

Crappy naked vote in a (at the time) 90+ page game?

ok, how about

Little to no scum-hunting, set-up speculation and other similar IIoA type posts, and a tell that has yet to do me wrong? (that quote is for the tell BTW)

toogers is scum

Why do you discount his push on Elli completely? Why do you think Maggie is a scum role? Do you think that was faked to draw out Glenn?

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I almost want to call that a town tell though, seriously, who forgets they had a scumbuddy who is dead?

Yeah, this is probably a good point.

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Titus, calm your tits for a minute, k? You and RC are obviously the same alignment and the passive-aggressive boyfriend-girlfriend relationship you two have leaves me at an impasse:
1. Titus defends the shit out of RC (while still suspecting him?) while RC coasts through until LyLo
2. Titus is clueless about how to react towards RC (which is a slight town tell for me) while RC conveniently "catches up" constantly and never posts in depth in fear of being seen as scummy
Titus, help me and shed some light on us.

I don't know what you're referring to. I haven't really said anything about Titus yet. I'm not coasting, if I were coasting I'd be posting stuff like "prod dodge, still reading".

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Vote parking Mastin is still super scum too

I would like him to use his vote a bit more, not sold on him as scum though.

---

We think both elli and metal are scum.

Then why didn't you hammer?


(one of AD/Elli is town 100%)
+2/-8 sugar cain
-4/+2 AD
+2/-2 Matt
-4 pitoli
-1 bork
-1 Elli
+3 Thor
+2/-2 sangres
+2 mastin
+2 Toog
+3/-2 Amrun
+3 Toog
+6/-2 Des
+1/-4 NBH
+1/-1 Aj
-1 TIP
+2 OGML
+2/-3 JD/Titus (might have scumslipped)

In considering the best way to really frame this post, I think the most solid way to go is to treat it as though I am replacing in. I'll give the town three solid scumreads, all of which I'd be happy to lynch. As I've already made clear in this game, I am not the type that has to have my way or the highway, certainly not in a game this large. That's why I'm voting Elli and that's why I don't particularly care if he's the lynch today. He isn't my biggest scumread, but there's no reason for me to get in front of this lynch. I don't play that way.

---

My biggest townreads are

Desperado

and

Toog

by a country mile. Desperado has been consistently asking the right questions at the right times. He's one of the few players to really come on strongly against pitoli, a player that I find to be extremely scummy (more on that later). He is always engaging in multiple conversations, but isn't afraid to sell his ideas when he sees the opportunity. Toog, unlike the sour reputation of IIoA and rolefishing that some players have pegged him for, has been genuinely working to help this town move forward. Toog has been playing like the anti-Sugar, which is definitely a good thing. Him, Amrun, and mollie have been the only three to really try and make sense of the flavor, and their contributions have seemed fairly positive. Toog is the lead in this though, and I've found his opinions insightful and not influenced by twisting the story to fit a certain paradigm. No one else comes close to these reads, and barring a report or something, I will absolutely defend these two players for the foreseeable future.

mastin

and

Thor

are both pretty steady townreads as well. I'm a bit more shaky with them, however. mastin has been clear, concise, and as aggressive as his few posts have allowed him to be. He's focusing on AD, a player that I am not particularly fond of myself, and trying to balance out the silliness from some of the players like Matt, Sugar, and, to a lesser extent, Titus. A possible negative is him being rather one note. It's tough for me to criticize him on this given that I am guilty of the same thing, but I would suspect a townmastin to shop his vote around a bit more than he has, especially when others have pointedly asked him to. Thor I have trouble reading. Aside from the arrogance, I enjoy his playstyle and ferocity. He always strikes me as very intellectual but with an aggressive bend. I see that here, and it feels good. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty, and he's willing to stand up to both Matt and NBH when they were trying to shout down everyone else. Possible negatives just exist in me not feeling confident as to whether this really does make him town, but I am going with that interpretation for now.

Amrun

and

OGML

round out the remainder of my stable townreads, both of them rely heavily on their claims for support. OGML has simply been drowned out by the level of silliness in this thread, but a lot of his reactions have read as sincere. His JD/Titus attack was a game changer. I think OGML stands to gain a great deal from a Titus scumflip, but none of this really shakes at the possibility that he's an SK. Do I think he is? No, I don't. I think it's a possibility, but it's very hard for me to believe he saw claiming this early as his only out if he were an SK. Amrun has been up and down. I think she was the first one to come up with creditable ties to chesskid. While this isn't huge, it's noteworthy and earns her town points, especially given how she took what chess said to make townreads rather than scum ones. That was innovative and impressionable, I think. Her questions are solid and show that she has real goals in mind. What worries me a bit about her is her instance that she's obviously town. She's seemingly always trying to slip this in at oddest of times. There was one exchange where she got emotional on four or five consecutive occasions over players not viewing her as town. May have been just goofing around, but it didn't sit right with me nonetheless.

Although I don't really townread

Matt

or

NBH

, but I have zero desire to vote or lynch them. This sentiment relies completely on their claims (multiple in Matt's case). I don't townread these players, but it probably doesn't mean they're scum. It's probably just that I am not really coming to terms with the way they have played this game so far. They are ostracizing the rest of the playerbase in different ways, notably by overposting, passive-aggression, and acting out. It's important for me to say this because I don't want to have to field questions about why I may not vote Matt even though I think he's scummy. I am considerate of the fact, but I think this slot may hold a greater potential to help this town alive than dead. The lack of a counterclaim to NBH is really foolproof. It's very likely that her character (Michonne) is in this game. The claim does make some sense, especially after the Mod's intervention, but I really despise the way NBH has been trying to use it to get her way.

---

Metal Sonic

is probably my single biggest scumread not influenced in anyway whatsoever by other players/claims. pitoli's immediate reactions to the start of Day 2 were completely out there. Allowing me to begin with the fact that this slot had very little input during the first day at all. Both posts on the first day were abysmal. "why are people voting Desperado?" and "No idea who the scum is. I'll come back later." Let me deconstruct both of these before I get to the real meat that is her Day 2 play. The first post holds up a player and asks why he is getting votes. My immediate reaction to this post? You tell me. What's wrong with Desperado getting votes? Who should get votes? Is there someone sinister pushing these votes? She never comes back to this. This sticks out like a sore thumb because she doesn't really care why people are voting Desperado; it's just something for her to say and pretend to make an impact. If she really had cared about Desperado, then there was no reason she couldn't have followed it up. You cannot give her an out for this post anyway you slice it. Now, if you couple this post with the second one, you're left with an even more perplex picture as to what town thoughts would possibly going through her mind. She has no idea who the scum is, but what was the Desperado question all about then? If she didn't see it as scummy, then why is she questioning it, especially so early in the game? But let's move up to Day 2, because I could probably abide this if I had felt as though she put it behind her and really took a fresh look at the game. Post 755 is a useless piece of filler. This is a complete throwaway post that tells us nothing about pitoli's unique perspective at all. Further, I'd argue it's written in such a way to sound intelligent and analytical, but it comes off as sounding nothing like pitoli trying to get to the bottom of the wagon at all. It sounds utterly fake. Then you go to post 761, and you can only ask yourself why does she persistently not give reads? Why is she talking in such vague generalities? If that was such a bad wagon as she claims, why is she not pointing the finger at someone? In post 764, she claims she has made it to page 15, but by this time, StupendousKey was at, like, L-6. The wagon was halfway built. Remember, the wagon she said was capitalized by scum? Yet of her three scumreads (John Doe, Me, and Sugar Cain), none of us were on the StupendeousKey lynch at this time. What does that tell you? That this is fake. At best she's making it up as she goes along. In post 965, her intent reads about a subtle as a bull in a china shop. Her question about OGML's posting frequency is completely seethrough. She's rhetorically asking about why he's posting so much in a negative sense, but she doesn't vote him or ask him anything specific. In fact, she hasn't used her vote at all so far! Lastly, I'm not big on meta, but if you are, you really ought to check out pitoli's play in Mini 1464 to compare with her here. I promise it is very short (just like her play here). Similarities: 1) Very little posting. 2) Lack of votes (0 in this game versus 1 in that game). 3) Questions she asks without ever following up on or effectively pursuing. 4) Rhetorical questions that are plain as day (and the lack of followthrough to vote someone on the back of them).

So that's all for pitoli. Metal Sonic is less of a sure thing in my book, but he's had is share of arguably scummy posts. An overdefensive post 2300: This post shows little concern for actual scumhunting and is a just blind anger over Amrun's potential justified vote. His claim in post 2491 reads as though he's kind of testing the waters. He had no pressure to claim. I doubt the veracity of it, honestly. Either he was just trolling or trying to throw people off. I've never played with this scummer, so I am not sure what exactly he'd be prone to do. Given pitoli's play, I'm inclined to distrust him.

Another substantial scumread of mine is

ActionDan

. AD has done some solid town stuff, but I think he's also done some really questionable stuff too. I'll try to approach him as fair and balanced as I can, because he ought to get credit for what I think he has done that looks town. Additionally, and Amrun/Desperado have both touched on this, AD is part of a pair with Elli that I really think contains at least one non-Mafia player due to one of chesskid's post 731. Starting with post 460, we see an already meek AD that has slipped in a comment about understanding the StupendousKey wagon, but it doesn't exhibit any willingness to commit to a read on it one way or the other. AD isn't voting here. He could've voted StupendousKey here, but he chose not to. That's important, I think, because it setups a pattern of being disengaged that is only broken at certain, unsavory times. Consistent with the pattern, notice how he makes a short post in post 578 where he calls out three scumreads (including StupendousKey). I applaud him for being open, but not for his continued lack of vote. He even goes so far as to state that he's "up for voting SK whenever" as though he is looking for Matt's (or someone's) permission. He does the same thing in post 726. Really we get very little from AD after that. He votes pitoli, which is good, but he's just staying in the background (other players, myself included, are just as guilty of this, but it needs to be said). In post 1564, we have kind of an empty, blah type post. It took mastin criticizing his play to really get anything out of AD that wasn't "I'll vote if someone asks me to" or sheeping. Additionally, he's critical of mastin's post, but he doesn't really elaborate beyond "that's a scummastin post". In contrast with this, I actually like AD's post 1742 where he pushed on NBH. But then he started to get worse again with crap like post 1825 which is clearly narrow-minded and could be read as though it was said with an agenda. Obviously the method with which people die has very important relevance. This was an over-the-top defense of NBH. So I am not liking AD's relationships with NBH or Elli. AD seems bent on slowing this game down, and I read him as a very likely candidate for scum.

Sugar Cain

has been festering in my mind as an unhealthy mix of a scum and anti-town read. The first thing to note is that this slot has claimed as a roleblocker, which gives me real pause in pushing this slot prematurely, but short of a godfather, a roleblocker is probably one of the most common scum roles around. It's kind of a wash. Post 386 is the first post that stuck out to me as scummy. This reads as Sugar wanting to have her cake and eat it too. She says she doesn't like the speed of the wagon, but she helped mobilize it. She says she doesn't like how SK isn't defending himself, but she says she still doesn't like him. I don't even know how "not defending yourself" translates into something a town player would do, but that's why this post is scummy. Post 507 is too emotional and too tag-alongish. Maybe it was the emoticon that put it over the top, but I just dislike this whole comment. Another thing is that this is the second time she has said Toog is scum without really addressing him directly or elaborating. Post 667 is just flatout confusing. It was about this point when players should realize that Sugar often just posts to be posting. A great many of the posts that come from Sugar are fluffy and ultimately serve to do nothing more than clutter the thread with random emotions and thoughts that often go nowhere. A good example is her deplorable "test" on pitoli. In what should've been a relatively simple questioning of pitoli, Sugar somehow managed to completely fumble it in a way I cannot fathom as being anything but anti-town. I talk about this more in my notes, but if you look at post 785 where the incompetence really comes to a head, Sugar somehow manages to 1) Create a test for pitoli. 2) Have Matt call her out for it. 3) Respond to Matt that it is, in fact, a test. 4) Have pitoli respond to it. 5) And after all this, still screw up on the player that "hasn't posted at all"? It's a comedy of errors. Post 864 is a good question that Desperado ignored for some reason, but then you've got scummy stuff like post 889 which excuses the slot for not using their vote. I've already talked about earlier in this thread how bad post 993 is, but it bears repeating. This is the kind of post that really wants me to push for a lynch on this slot though. Posts like that are incredibly harmful to the town and get us nowhere. No one should be subjected to hearing a hydra bicker over internal problems, but Sugar is a repeat offender. Post 1115 and post 2141 have these traits of paranoia that is another thing this slot is known for. It has me leaning back toward a scumread, as does their persistent, wrongheaded push of Toog throughout this game.

Lastly, I'd be content with a

Titus

lynch without getting into a long paragraph over him. The main reason revolves around OGML's catch however. Without that, I don't particularly see the slot as noteworthy. He's done good and bad things, but a lot of his posts remind me of Desperado's input. I think OGML found a worthy slip, but I appreciate Titus' willingness to argue for himself. I don't buy into the idea that he had so little to do with his other hydra head that he wasn't even aware as to why Wayne voted the way he did, but other than that I find myself liking his spunk.

---

tl;dr = Metal Sonic is scum for pitoli's aimless questions, replacing out, and a strange claim. AD is scum for working to slow the game down, not being independent, and appearing at opportune times. Sugar is anti-town/scum for posting too much fluff, acting over emotional, and being flatout confusing. If I didn't mention a player, they didn't leave a lasting impression on me and could probably go either way (bork, Pere, Aj, Elli, sangres, TIP).

[

Town

]-------Desperado--Toog------mastin--Thor----Amrun---OGML-NBH--TIP--bork-[

∙

]-sangres--Aj-Matt--Pere---Elli---Titus-SC--AD---------MS------[

Scum

]

I read the entire thing and fuck that tl;dr, this is required reading for every player. An excellent mix of incredibly in depth IIoA mixed with top notch scumhunting that, if fake, would go down as the single greatest post in the history of mafia. RC is town forever and ever, amen.

[Desperado]

And I didn't ignore it, Red.

Amrun

Or Toog, and Amrun is Glenn. It doesn't really matter because Toog isn't town for his claim anyway.

So you think its a fakeclaim?

No, I'm pretty sure he means my other play makes me town, my claim has nothing to do with it.

Unvote: waynegg
Vote: John Doe

Hadn't realized he was part of the hydra until I reread what was going on.

@ Nero: Toog had it right.

[Desperado]

IIOA is generally a scum trait, so you think he's too experienced of a player to do this?

I was using IIOA positively. That post will prove invaluable because it's a perfect summation of 2800 post game.

[Desperado]

Like you could show that post to someone who didn't even know this game existed and they would be perfectly capable of picking up a slot as if they'd been here the whole time.

[Desperado]

I don't agree with his conclusions on you guys either but the notion that being upset with your blatant, in-thread hydra-dis or Mara's interaction with pitoli are "lol" is kind of weird.

[Desperado]

How about we lynch Elli and you guys sheep RC tonight?

[Desperado]

How about we lynch Elli and you guys sheep RC tonight?

[Desperado]

How about we lynch Elli and you guys sheep RC tonight?

We're not 100% effective.

So?

[Desperado]

@Titus - why do you think his scum reads are obligated to make sense as a scum team?

Not only that but that that isn't he first time he's floated the "You really think scum would double bus like that?" WIFOM and it's really disconcerting.

[Desperado]

There is an element of most mentioned lynch targets as the scums.

I also find this kinda funny given that Thor just gave me a tongue lashing for thinking this as well.

You're wrong Nero. Mastin has gotten zero support for his AD wagon and you are inflating your own suspicion level. Pitoli/MS has just been scummy.

[Desperado]

There is an element of most mentioned lynch targets as the scums.

I also find this kinda funny given that Thor just gave me a tongue lashing for thinking this as well.

You're wrong Nero. Mastin has gotten zero support for his AD wagon and you are inflating your own suspicion level. Pitoli/MS has just been scummy.

huh? What does that have to do with Mastin and AD?

You said RC's scum reads are the most suspected people. I was showing you why you're wrong.

How did you not put that together yourself?

[Desperado]

There is an element of most mentioned lynch targets as the scums.

I also find this kinda funny given that Thor just gave me a tongue lashing for thinking this as well.

You're wrong Nero. Mastin has gotten zero support for his AD wagon and you are inflating your own suspicion level. Pitoli/MS has just been scummy.

huh? What does that have to do with Mastin and AD?

You said RC's scum reads are the most suspected people. I was showing you why you're wrong.

How did you not put that together yourself?

So no one is calling AD scum? He's pretty heavily suspected and just 'cause there's no current bandwagon on him doesn't mean he's not being called scum. So sorry, I don't think this this is valid.

Quote the heavy suspicion

[Desperado]

Yeah I get that, but I'm saying elli is a better lynch today.

[Desperado]

Yeah I get that, but I'm saying elli is a better lynch today.

we haven't moved our vote?

Yes you did.

[Desperado]

You know what really gives associative tells? Results, faked or otherwise.

How would real results give associative tells?

[Desperado]

mollie why didn't you know where your vote was?

[Desperado]

mollie why didn't you know where your vote was?

Suppose mollie answers this completely pointless question. Tell me how you will process the information and how the possible answers will reflect on your read of our slot.

YOUR

useless question has blown up my town read of you.

You were both present when that conversation started. You've previously stated that you guys talk about everything. Yet that doesn't include changing your vote and sheeping RC? I think it's incredibly relevant that mollie didn't know you had unvoted Elli.

What are you gonna do, send your non-lethal walkers to maybe/maybe not kill me tonight?

[Desperado]

what are you talking about I knew where our vote was and but I didn't know where everyone else's was hence why I was waiting for a vc. I figured venny would be around to post 1 eventually. how do I know this cos venny actually reads the games he mods which is something I love cos I get valuable feedback after the game.

We were talking about lynching between Elli and MS, and I said Elli would be a better lynch today, and you said "we haven't moved our vote?" which I read as "We haven't moved off Elli so what's your point?" when you had indeed moved of Elli. Was I mistaken?

[Desperado]

Hey guys, I'm pretty much 20 pages page (102, to be more precise), and I've got less than half an hour before I leave, so not enough time to catch up.

Still, though, fairly certain we should be doing this:

VOTE: ActionDan.

This vote sucks. You think chesskid openly called for two of his buddies to join him in the Stup quickhammer?

AD is town.

vote:NBH

Nero this vote sucks too. You think scum didn't get safeclaims or what? It's completely reasonable for there to be multiple town herders.

Vote: Metal Sonic

Because Pitoli was scum and, even though he had elli listed as scum in 2929, he side stepped the wagon completely.

[Desperado]

Bork why are you voting NBH

[Desperado]

Why don't you think it's reasonable to expect more than one person has control over walkers?

[Desperado]

I think your vote is lazy and lacks conviction. Why don't you join the Metal wagon with me?

[Desperado]

I think your vote is lazy and lacks conviction. Why don't you join the Metal wagon with me?

[Desperado]

I think your vote is lazy and lacks conviction. Why don't you join the Metal wagon with me?

That is a fucking weird thing to say.

What's weird about it?

[Desperado]

I think your vote is lazy and lacks conviction. Why don't you join the Metal wagon with me?

That is a fucking weird thing to say.

What's weird about it?

I cant tell what point you are making

My point is that your thought process seems to be doesn't seem to have progressed beyond "Aj flipped Herder and NBH claimed Herder" even though a) it's reasonable to assume multiple Herders exist and b) Aj, the other person with the Herder role PM, confirmed that assumption.

Meanwhile, Pitoli was really scummy and MS had Elli as scum but never even came close to interacting with his wagon, let alone vote him. Your vote would be much better served on an MS wagon.

[Desperado]

Does it matter?

[Desperado]

It doesn't have to be, but you've had NBH as town for quite some time and basing an abrupt change in read on something you admit doesn't necessarily implicate someone is lazy.

I don't agree that MS doesn't interact with fuckall. He interacted plenty as town in RW. But this is the kind of scenario where meta is lame--MS listed Elli as a scumread with no additional justification and then never even acknowledged the wagon on him that persisted the entire day until he got lynched. That's a rock solid scumtell and hand-waving it away because its "incredibly like him" is dumb.

[Desperado]

When "don't be lazy" appears in my wincon, I'll put stock into how fucking lazy I appear to people. I care about being correct, not how much work I put into getting there. I know it doesn't necessarily implicate them, but I am trying to play the numbers here and I am asserting it is unlikely for us to have three roles, two of which are identical, that control the herd.

Why? Aj didn't.

Have you considered the possibility that all/most all of the PRs interact with the zombie mechanic?

[Desperado]

Right. =5198054]Matt claims that his role interacts with zombies also. Is he scum too?

[Desperado]

Working link

[Desperado]

Matt has claimed a lot of things this game, but if he were something would you assert that he and nbh were both town?

At how many roles that control the horde do you start to go "hmm maybe one of these is not legitimate?"

I'll bbl

???

I don't know and I have no way of acquiring enough information to know. You had NBH as strong town--was it really just their claim?

[Desperado]

MS is scummy for weakly supporting an Elli lynch while failing to interact with it in a meaningful way. That lynch took a long time, and MS ignored it until the very end where he fosed him but still didn't vote. Didn't discuss his claim, the composition of his wagon, nothing. If you agree that there was scum off the wagon, it's just a likely to have been someone not voting at all.

[Desperado]

That lynch took a long time, and MS ignored it until the very end where he fosed him but still didn't vote.

And my question remains: would he have been less scummy if he would have voted there?

Yes.

[Desperado]

That lynch took a long time, and MS ignored it until the very end where he fosed him but still didn't vote.

And my question remains: would he have been less scummy if he would have voted there?

tl;dr Desperado = confbias/tunneller/scumtunneler

[Desperado]

That's good analysis even though I don't agree with your conclusion.

Beyond NBH who are you looking at?

[Desperado]

I'm thinking that we are in a really good place right now.

This was the D1 town block:

3. Amrun

5. Desperado
6. borkjerfkin

7. Majiffy

12. No Brains Here ( DrippingGoofball / Pirate Mollie )

13. Toogeloo

17. Mattp
18. Sangres
19. Thor665

21. Trust Fund ( Cabd / Syryana )

23. Sugar Cain ( Nero Cain / Ms Marangal )

Amrun, Jiffy, Trust Fund, and Toog have all already flipped town, both scumflips were outside of it, and I still feel good about everyone else.

ActionDan is town for the chess/elli interaction.
Red is town for his badass catch up post.
MS is scum.

23 players means 5-6 scum so realistically we are looking for 3-4 more. If I'm right about MS, that means 2-3 in {Titus, Peregrine, Mastin, OGML, TIP}

[Desperado]

Matt: earlier you said unequivocally that you could self-confirm. Now you're hedging. Why?

[Desperado]

And yet, I have a confirmable power role

So Im done with the irritating exchange you've sucked me into

It's ok I respect you enough as a person to think you would not have a pathetic lynch list

@Matt - Do you think you're being illogical?
You have fear that I'm suggesting you are - why not just point out how you're not?
You still haven't explained my logical fallacy, maybe that's a place to start? I even explained to you explicitly how to answer the question when you got confused about how to go about it.

Here's my issue.

I don't like your line of questioning because I don't believe you really think it's a useful line of questioning. I think you're trying to lead me by the leash and make me subservient to you by making me feel like I have something to prove to you. It's like you're trying to shut me up and trying to prevent me from having any sort of leadership role by calling me scum and keeping me absorbed in trying to please you with roundabout questioning. Whatever, you're being incredibly technical towards me, that's one thing, but then you JUST SO HAPPEN to have every single powerful player in the game as a scum read and have tried getting every single player that has power to look bad. I am not appealing to your line of questioning because I see no benefit in continuing with it. I am not fearful of anything, I'm frustrated.

Don't worry, I don't expect you to be any less vindictive because of it, just direct your energy towards being redundant with other people about me rather than being redundant towards me. I'd rather that because at the end of the day you're powerless towards me because I know I have a confirmable role and therefore I can stop a conversation I feel is unproductive without worrying about how it changes my position in the game.

See? You're trying to make me explain myself but I'm telling you I don't have to because I have nothing to prove. So now you're in a pickle where you don't know how to continue distracting me from everything else in the game. Oh the joy of confirmable roles!

Matt: earlier you said unequivocally that you could self-confirm. Now you're hedging. Why?

What a stupid post

Like is this rhetorical? Or do you want me to defend myself against this?

No it isn't rhetorical, and why do you feel like you need to defend yourself against anything?

Your original position was your role could self-confirm, end of story--and you used that interpretation as a pretense for ending a conversation with someone (Thor?)

Now you can maybe sorta-confirm your role in the right circumstances.

So which is it? If it's the latter, why were you exaggerating your ability to self-confirm?

[Desperado]

I'm not even pushing you what the fuck is wrong with you?

You've made two contradictory statements. The first statement was used to prematurely end a line of conversation, and the 2nd one calls the validity of the first into question--do you honestly think this isn't interesting or worth pursuing?

And you just said that you can't confirm your alignment, just your role, so how exactly are you locking yourself into a damning claim if scum?

[Desperado]

Pedit: You're annoying. I literally don't understand why you're going on with this conversation right now in the game state. Do you have ADHD?

What the fuck is this even supposed to mean? No one can ask you questions right now, or what?

[Desperado]

Pedit: You're annoying. I literally don't understand why you're going on with this conversation right now in the game state. Do you have ADHD?

What the fuck is this even supposed to mean? No one can ask you questions right now, or what?