Red Wine Mafia: Game Over

[Tammy]

VOTE: empire

Do I get to lynch you yet?

[Tammy]

Do I get to lynch you yet?

I'm town yet again so I'm gonna have to politely ask you to Get Rekt.

I thought your sending me your scum role pm over aim last night was you asking me to lynch you.

Was that a mistake?

[Tammy]

I know I should probably replace out since I got that info. I'll take it under advisement.

[Tammy]

Hey tammy if you're town let's be masons.

Sure! When I get home I'll put together the appropriate paperwork for you to fill out.

Don't tell empire, he might get jealous

[Tammy]

Hey tammy if you're town let's be masons.

Sure! When I get home I'll put together the appropriate paperwork for you to fill out.

Don't tell empire, he might get jealous

You'd better not just re-use that shitty one from chef mafia!

Please, that was the town-bloc form. The masons forms are much more rigorous. Besides Syry wrote the Chef mafia one, and he's really unimaginative.

[Tammy]

To be fair it's because I've yet to play with them. Whereas I barely dodged empire in Xenologue and got played by tammy in Red Wedding and mislynched by her in Chef Mafia.

Why would you think I'm a decent player if you think I mislynched you? Also, I'm just going to keep on harumphing at you over that. We didn't mislynch you that day; we weren't even on your wagon and were arguing you were town by that point.

Tammy also annihilated me, Nacho, Rufflig, Klick and Mac in Open 526.

Well, a Syr/Tierce/Tammy scumteam is gonna be dominant, but still she played really really well, so I'm sorta paranoid of her.

As someone who thinks her scum game absolutely sucks, <3.

Not in the best mood right now due to how awful my job search has been going and this thread needs a bit of focus so let's try something a little different here.

T S O, Mindgamer, and CTD all look townish to me so far.
The Silver Bard has offsite experience so I'm not sure if the towntell in #9 applies.
Espeonage's #4 pinged for me, the last line specifically.

You're missing someone on that town list.

Why did the last line of Espeonag ping you?

Looked ahead, you explained. I think you're reaching there and think it's a pretty typical attack to get the game moving and get a reaction.

[Tammy]

Chamber is probstown.

[Tammy]

I could care less if Pjovek is disruptive, he's probably not mafia. Bad wagon.

Pjovek is perfectly capable of trolling as scum.

[Tammy]

I could care less if Pjovek is disruptive, he's probably not mafia. Bad wagon.

Pjovek is perfectly capable of trolling as scum.

That's quite true. Do you think he's scum in this game?

I don't know yet. Before the game started Empire said he was looking forward to playing with him and linked me to an iso to review. I haven't reviewed it yet. I'm pretty sure I was fooled by him in mafia.raptured; I don't really remember his play. I remember his trolling though because it's part of why amrun was hard to lynch.

[Tammy]

The “I am so bad” routine creates an alibi and excuses.

It's very amusing to me to see so many people mistake a joke about players not suiciding for a serious "woe is me i'm such a noob" maneuver.

I'll just leave THIS here to explain the joke to those that care (and weren't there): http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30234

Don't worry, I won't lynch you over one scumpoint. And yes it may be intended as a joke, but to me it just seemed strange. But if you say it is a joke, it probably is. But if you keep using it as an excuse later I will be more concerned.

Any comments about the other players I mentioned?

Have I finally found my prince waffles?

[Tammy]

Wah I totally forgot about joining this game, let alone starting.
/bookmarking

I'll read later.

*twitch*

[Tammy]

It's a good thing I like cupcakes then!

(Also, Sir Bard, just tugged at my heartstrings with his dissertation on his town play. He's probs town too.)

[Tammy]

For anybody that actually uses meta, Silver Bard is "Tunkeg" on TeamLiquid mafia.

God bless extensive databases.

This wasn't cool.

[Tammy]

VOTE: ABR

[Tammy]

Maybe he was just personally offended over it? He said he was a different alt for a reason. I mean it's true he did give up a lot of information, but Mutley blacklisted kuribo over outing his alt in a game, so people do get pissed.

I have alts I wouldn't want people to out for various reasons. Also, he seemed like a kinda emotional player so.

[Tammy]

I could care less if Pjovek is disruptive, he's probably not mafia. Bad wagon.

Pjovek is perfectly capable of trolling as scum.

Why do you think that?

I could care less if Pjovek is disruptive, he's probably not mafia. Bad wagon.

Pjovek is perfectly capable of trolling as scum.

That's quite true. Do you think he's scum in this game?

I don't know yet. Before the game started Empire said he was looking forward to playing with him and linked me to an iso to review. I haven't reviewed it yet. I'm pretty sure I was fooled by him in mafia.raptured; I don't really remember his play. I remember his trolling though because it's part of why amrun was hard to lynch.

[Tammy]

I have no read on pjovek, but I will lose no tears if he's lynched.

[Tammy]

Empire, what's your read on Tammy so far?

[Tammy]

I have no read on pjovek, but I will lose no tears if he's lynched.

A: where's my application
B: no comment on my vote?

A: the forms are going through the final review process for rigorousness

B: nope! You guys look like you're sorting each other, and I'll watch how that plays out.

[Tammy]

I already sorted her. Sheep me.

That's what you call sorting these days? I loosely followed a newbies game where I remember you guys dancing. You haven't even really put on your shoes here, and you're that certain?

[Tammy]

Is sarcasm and sass part of her scum game or town game and not the other?

I'd love to answer this question for you but right now I'm more interested in cabd not actually answering your question but just linking a scum game.

P.S. Also, we've played together. You might not remember because it was a while ago, but it was kingdom hearts and guess what a topic of day one was?

[Tammy]

Reading through ISOs, I got a strong impression that she's just kinda floating through the early game, not really making any effort to develop reads or sort anyone.

That's why your voting me? It's probably sillier than why I thought your original reason was for.

As far as feeling like I'm floating, that's probably a town tell for me so thanks for pointing it out. No, seriously at my other site me *not* feeling like I'm floating early day one has often been a cause for concern. I much much prefer to observe early game than push something, and this player list allows me to do just that.

And the other part is a flat out lie. I have a couple pretty decent town reads, ham watching how you/cabd play out, am looking to interact with empire, which is quite frankly the most important thing to me early game. If I can figure out if we're on the same team and the same wavelength, this game will go much more smoothly.

I'm trying to figure out if this push is real or if you saw espeonage asking about me/saw cabd responding and with his vote on you thought this would be a good distraction especially considering you haven't even tried to interact with me, and if you *do* remember our last game where I was scum I made sure to make it look like I was "scumhunting" immediately.

[Tammy]

I think you're Town, I think Katsuki is scum, I think Chamber's Town and I think people like Dr. Cirno need to post for me to get a read on them.

Give me a break, I'm still formulating my opinions on the game.

Why do you think katsuki is scum, he's one of the only people I feel good about being town right now.

[Tammy]

Reading through ISOs, I got a strong impression that she's just kinda floating through the early game, not really making any effort to develop reads or sort anyone.

Yes that is the case, though I'd expect scum to hide it better.

Not really too conclusive it honestly depends on how bad she is at this game/scum.

She's impressive as town. The one scum game of hers where I played with her, she did a good job of incorporating some of her signature town-play, though on reread I spotted a few things I'll keep in mind. Cabd linked to that game in an earlier post.

As far as I'm concerned, I suck at scum, and that game is probably the worst of the 8? Damn times I've drawn scum this year.

[Tammy]

Giving a cautios early town read to tso due to his paranoia of me. I'd probably just read him as solid town for it but several recent games have had scum refusing to read me due to "paranoia" so.

Also,

VOTE: mindgamer

Helping and cuz pjosleazejek is opposed.

[Tammy]

I don't need to dance with her when she goes and does the one thing that claims scum in my eyes, tammy.

Voting early? Seen her do that before.

[Tammy]

Giving a cautios early town read to tso due to his paranoia of me. I'd probably just read him as solid town for it but several recent games have had scum refusing to read me due to "paranoia" so.

Taking the above out of consideration, would you still read him as town based on the rest of his play?

I'd probably read him as solidly null. His question to me why I thought that Pjovek was capable of trolling was odd considering that I had already talked to ffery about it and how he trolled in mafia.raptured. But, his paranoia regarding not only me but fferylit and amending his position on pjo read somewhat townish.

Also, I have a soft spot in my heart for people who claim to be paranoid of me early so it's hard to get past that. It's one of my mafia weaknesses.

[Tammy]

Reading through ISOs, I got a strong impression that she's just kinda floating through the early game, not really making any effort to develop reads or sort anyone.

That's why your voting me? It's probably sillier than why I thought your original reason was for.

As far as feeling like I'm floating, that's probably a town tell for me so thanks for pointing it out. No, seriously at my other site me *not* feeling like I'm floating early day one has often been a cause for concern. I much much prefer to observe early game than push something, and this player list allows me to do just that.

Then maybe it's the games we've played, because I haven't really noticed that you are so heavily into observation mode in the early game.

Don't ever meta me off so few games. My play is completely inconsistent and based on several factors, not merely including my mood. And actually this accusation doesn't make any sense. In mafia.raptured, scum accused me of not scumhunting early in the game, and I only got really engaged when syryana started trolling me and we danced, and I totally dipped out of that game pretty strongly and only really scum read someone for interrupting syryana and I's dance. In Chef mafia, the only real substantial early argument I had was with Amrun when she started calling me scum for trying too hard because I joked about a town block; it wasn't until mid day one before I actually started getting and pushing a read. In hard boiled, the only thing day one I argued about was when scum claimed that Mala was scum because she was being too protown. And in the one scum game you have experience with me on, I immediately came out and attacked someone so I'd look like I was scumhunting.

So, what is your argument again?

And the other part is a flat out lie. I have a couple pretty decent town reads, ham watching how you/cabd play out, am looking to interact with empire, which is quite frankly the most important thing to me early game. If I can figure out if we're on the same team and the same wavelength, this game will go much more smoothly.

You may have reads (I know I do) but you don't appear to be putting any work into refining them. It's just whatever gets laid down in the thread. And your play is somewhat enigmatic.

So, I mean, so? It's early day one, a day I hate and traditionally struggle with. When we get to day two or three and I'm not "putting in the work" then talk to me. Until then, your arguments are silly as hell. Barely anyone has made an impression. I'm not going to give reads I don't have. I'm not going to clutter the thread just so you or anyone else can feel better that I *look* like I'm scumhunting. What I give in the thread is what I feel. And if you don't see that the absolute one tiny little, actually really big thing for me, is that I want to sort empire, then I really don't know what to tell you. My play is not enigmatic, it's town, thanks.

I'm trying to figure out if this push is real or if you saw espeonage asking about me/saw cabd responding and with his vote on you thought this would be a good distraction especially considering you haven't even tried to interact with me, and if you *do* remember our last game where I was scum I made sure to make it look like I was "scumhunting" immediately.

What you did in that game was kind of off, though not in immediately obvious ways. This feels off, too, at least based on the experiential meta I have to go on.

You need more experience with me to actually meta me. Kindly read a few of my scum games, and then come in here and tell me how I'm awesomely town, thanks.

Also, this *is* interaction with you.

Super sweet. Are you trying to retroactively tell me I was wrong. Because before *this* post you weren't interacting with me, so I'm sorry but you don't get to act all superior bullshit this is interaction *after* I said there was none.

[Tammy]

To be honest, I was happy with what I got from Cabd. He felt honest and genuine and actually trying to help. As for you Tammy, I'm feeling more and more that I want to lynch you.

You've been either coasting on sass or, as you're doing now, deflecting. And I don't like it. I'm happy with Tammy being pushed for a bit.

You're happy that he didn't actually answer your question because you said it was indicative of a mindset and you wanted to know if it was indicative of a town or scum mindset and if I did one and not the other. Cabd didn't actually answer that question; all he did was link to you my most recent scum game. Why did you not care that he didn't actually answer your original question? Why did it seem genuine that his response was only to link a scum game of mine?

You clearly don't care about the answer but the answer is: It's a Tammy mindset, because it's just a me playstyle. Why didn't you respond to me about the game I told you about that we played together in? Me being too snarky was a topic of day one. And regardless, you can't coast in the first ten pages of the game, and on sass?

Also, if you are increasingly wanting to lynch me, why aren't you voting me?

Here, I'll show you how it's done:

VOTE: espeonage

[Tammy]

The only reason we're talking right now is because I voted you. You don't get to tell me what is interaction and what isn't.

Yes, I do.

And if you call voting me interacting with me, your entire argument about me not trying to sort anyone is not only hypocritical but it's stupid too.

[Tammy]

The only reason we're talking right now is because I voted you. You don't get to tell me what is interaction and what isn't.

Yes, I do.

And if you call voting me interacting with me, your entire argument about me not trying to sort anyone is not only hypocritical but it's stupid too.

I'm getting all sorts of data. Hopefully plenty more on the way.

Can't wait for more flawed data!

Also, why is Cabd voting for you if not for the early vote?

[Tammy]

Cabd's right? Your scum aren't you ffery?

[Tammy]

@Tammy: I said I was happy to wagon on you. And I'm sure you're quite aware that there are usually more than one scum in a game, hence I am perfectly capable and welcome to think more than just you are scum, and just as welcome to be voting other suspects. I might not be pleased with the results, but he told me that it might be an indicator and I am happy to take away that info. He didn't sound certain and thus the non-committal but honest answer is entirely fine in my book. Would you rather he said she's only like this when scum so you can feel better about trying to drive a wagon on him?

It didn't bother you in the slightest that he didn't actually also comment on my town game? Because quite frankly I could link you to more town games with me being sarcastic or sassy or whatever word you want to use than scum. But you took someone at face value who claimed to know my meta...or what did you think "and yeah, what kinda tammy meta do you want" meant? I don't know I guess it's just me, but when someone sounds sure of my meta, I'd expect them to give you something more than just a scum game of mine, especially considering that's what you asked for. It just sounds like you were satisfied with someone giving you feedback for what fit your agenda and you weren't interested for more.

And your last sentence is bullshit. I don't have a solid read on cabd; I'm not really so stupid as to go oh he's town so soon when I don't have anyone really familiar with him vouching for him, but I'm not even trying to wagon him. My vote is on you. My problem is that with you, and part of it is that you asked a question and became satisfied that he only gave part of the answer, which validated whatever propaganda you're trying to spin.

[Tammy]

Cabd's right? Your scum aren't you ffery?

If you think Cabd is right about me, why is your vote on espeonage?

Unfortunately Im not a double voter.

[Tammy]

I asked if it was indicitive or part of only one alignment. I got a negative answer to the former. That constitutes answering imo. I didn't stick a vote on you because of it. I took it in to consideration. It's the fallout that has put you in the scumreads and it was the tone that put you under consideration in the first place. I didn't vocalise that I thought you were scummy until the fallout. I don't know what agenda you think I was using it for, but it's a falsity to blame it on the meta read that was advertised as not being all inclusive.

That's not answering the question. And see above.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/ ... inking.gif


are you kidding me? And no offense to Cabd, but he still claims I mislynched him in a game I actually didn't, which I referenced in this game, and you take a half answer as an answer?

Okay, so Cabd, mister Tammy meta extraordinaire, is snark, sass, whatever word espeonage using part of my scum or town game? I'm going to guess, if you actually push him to give a full answer, he's going to go she's like this in her town game. OR he'd probably be voting me if it was a scum tell. Or you know what? You could read the game we actually were in together, or ask Empire, someone who actually has a grasp of my game.

[Tammy]

Pre prod dodge. I'll get back to this game tomorrow or the next day, busy.

[Tammy]

Nice way to ensure every option is covered so that no matter what answer could be given. And you're telling me you aren't trying to incriminate out of nothing. I don't care if he knows your meta or not. I care that is was an honest answer. Cabd might actually be mafia, he might have been trying to push me into hastily voting for you. But, as I keep saying: That. Is. Not. Why. I. Am. Voting. You!

PEdit: Hmm?

[Tammy]

I think Katsuki is scum

How interesting. Why?

I'll show you in a while, but read the rest of this page. As soon as I called her scum, she embarked on a voyage of discrediting me.

I don't have meta of Katsuki, but I've seen her as scum and she's pretty blatant as that alignment. If you want to see the game, you can.

Do you think she's scum?

This just literally made my night. Thank you. Thank you. It's been awhile since I've had a proper giggle fit.

Giving a cautios early town read to tso due to his paranoia of me. I'd probably just read him as solid town for it but several recent games have had scum refusing to read me due to "paranoia" so.

Also,

VOTE: mindgamer

Helping and cuz pjosleazejek is opposed.

Why are you scumreading Pjovek again?

I don't know how to read him. I think he's annoying and obfuscating, which makes him hard to read. My vote and reasoning was more a this annoying person objects to this vote, so I'll vote there because I'm a rebel. Yeahhh.

[Tammy]

Tammy. Hey tammy. The question was posed such that "is this something unique to her town game" was sufficiently disproved with a link to a scumgame where you did the behavior. Get over it. All this bitching about how this is so obviously town you is so alignment non-indicative anyways.

I'd rather be playing video games than catching up with mafia after the week I've had. Is that alignment indicative?

[Tammy]

I think you're reaching there and think it's a pretty typical attack to get the game moving and get a reaction.

Ok let me try this again since I apparently didn't do so hot at explaining it last time.

No vote, don't want to make enemies?

A lot of times, I see this kind of entrance from scum -- a leading, accusatory question based on stretchy reasoning as a ways to make it look like they're contributing pushing the game past RVS (examples from other games: #1, #2, #3 - the third one isn't phrased in the form of the question but it is in essence the same as the other two). The thing you'll notice in the two examples is that there's no real follow up or drive in them, just a limp throwaway post that appears to be moving the game towards serious time but isn't really.
Probably did a poor job of explaining this, but there it is.

Also, I haven't fully caught up yet, but the rest of his posting up until now just seems like wallflower scum to me. He's posting stuff coachy / kid's gloves type stuff like #61's comment to Pjovek + posturing about informative wagons in #85 and it just seems like he's trying to appear helpful without really involving himself in the game.

Actually, thinking about it again, why am I the only one voting this dude? >_>

Okay, I still don't agree on the first post though, but that could be because I see it all the time at Westeros.

Also, I'm sitting right next to you and you don't see me. I hate when I'm invisible

[Tammy]

Well some guy I met at the game store tonight recommended dragon age so it's either that or assassin's creed or skyrim cuz I need to kill some dragon dude.

[Tammy]

And... yeah. Not much worth commenting on so far. Feel free to ask me any questions, I'll frequent this thread today.

*twitch*

Is a smaller twitch than it used to be after Empire as town asked a similar question.

[Tammy]

Tammy:
Empire is scum. Yes or YES?

Empire if you claim scum now the pain can be over quickly and we won't have too much to read your buddies off of so maybe you'll even win if they kill me N1?

Chamber is pretty certifiably town at this point and gets to be on the council of lynch-deciders.

Empire has made one post that is less likely for him to make as scum, but that reads list he's working on should tell me everything I need to know.

[Tammy]

Barely anyone has made an impression. I'm not going to give reads I don't have.

@Bold: I thought you just said you had some town reads?

I do. I'm not going to force reads *beyond the ones I've given* if I don't have them.

[Tammy]

I can't stay awake any longer. Note for myself post 389 to catch up from tomorrow.

[Tammy]

I was having trouble deciding on a top suspect between Espeon and ffery. Other scumleans include ABR and Pjo.

I guess what it boils down to is, I've seen you be town quite a few times, and I've doubted you a couple of those times, but in none of those cases did you look like this! I don't agree with your objection that people aren't playing mafia- we do have some lurkers, and we do have Pjo not really playing, but that's not that big a deal. You recovered a little with the Tammy interaction but it's not enough for me.

Even though I like the Espeonage wagon, it's a little scary, because ffery's on it and because Mindgamer's vote was so bad. So for now I'm gonna go with this. I'm worried about possibly costing the town a valuable asset, but I can't let that hold me back all the damn time.

VOTE: ffery

More on this story as it develops! I may also try looking at fferyscum again even though I failed pretty savagely at it in Hard Boiled.

:/

You've never played with scum-me so it's at least a little understandable that my play here rings alarms. Cabd on the other hand knows that I'm not a ball of fire in every town game, so if he's town he's not going to have a whole lot of excuse for misreading me after my eventual flip.

Would you expect that Syry would be able to read you just as well or differently than you expect Cabd to read you? Because, in mafia.raptured when Syry was reading you completely wrong, you didn't set up this preemptive blame to get him to change his read; you tried to work with him.

[Tammy]

Okay I thought the ffery/cabd dance would be interesting, but it's not.

[Tammy]

Llamarble is being adorably arrogant. This is a good sign.

[Tammy]

Tammy

HUUUUUU

I would not have expected those two to come in at the bottom tier pregame <_<
Maybe their scumgames are actually as weak as they always claim
I'd kinda expect them to have fun as scum if scum together though, so it seems more likely the lack of a TAMMYPIRE is a 1town-1scum.

I'm just going to go with you're not allowed to give reads on me anymore.

dude you have no idea how weak my scum game is.

I'd imagine if we ever got to be scum together we'd just bus each other because fuck win conditions, bragging rights last forever!

[Tammy]

[
Llama- you ever gonna tell us why Katsuki is town? Is it just from Silver Bard?

Did you read Silver Bard's posts?

[Tammy]

Cabd - How often does ffery italicize words?

[Tammy]

I fell asleep in the middle of reading this game last night >_>

[Tammy]

Putting up the strong townreads now (Tammy / Katsuki / chamber / Llamarble) first, the weaker townreads (T S O / projectmatt / CTD) when I come back tonight.

Tammy:

• The best way to read Tammy is to see how she reacts to suspicion. There's a colossal gap between how she takes being suspected as town vs. scum -- as town, she tends to takes suspicion almost as a personal attack and reacts very violently / explosively whereas she tries to tone that down quite a bit more as scum. The way she responded to Cabd / ffery in posts like #282 is representative of her town game (in particular, the sarcastic / dismissive way she calls Cabd "Mr. Tammy Meta Extraordinaire" and tells him to go talk to me about her meta).
  
• I like that her statement in #254 that she put herself in observation mode early in this game because she felt like she could just do that here, it shows she's not interested in catering to the audience and has confidence in her ability to naturally be obvtown over time (these are particularly strong Tammy-town traits as she has about as much confidence in her scum game as I do).
  
• Her comment in #437 where she's suggesting that I've been ignoring her is also a great sign of the Tammy-town as I think she'd be, well, scared shitless around me frankly if she were scum in this game with me.

I like this read because it's right, but you're not worried about me at all? I feel like point one is something that I've been imitating in my scum game recently just to make me look more likely to be town. (I mean I feel like I've sounded fake as fuck when I've tried to imitate it as scum, and I guess I'd feel a little better if you mentioned that?)

I'm bummed that you didn't note what I think would have tipped you off that I was town.

[Tammy]

Okay yeah, marble is doing that town thing.

[Tammy]

OH I like projectmatt for town.

[Tammy]

Tammy is still my biggest read.

The force of that biggest read is missing something pretty inportant.

[Tammy]

Among other reasons why I'd hope Cabd would get this right is the fact that he read the Rapture game while it was in progress, as well as probably ever other game I've played since he joined MS. And he was part of nearly all the scum games I've played in that time. If I were scum with town-him scumreading me, I'd probably assume that meta points to my being scum unequivocally and play an extremely quiet, low-interaction game, like I wound up doing in the Chef game.
.

Okay so self meta is probably one of my biggest mafia weaknesses, but you don't think you'd change up your interaction with him at all from the last time you were scum opposite him? I get the impetus, in stacking the deck I wanted to avoid nacho as much as I could, but it was impossible, and there and chosen I lauded to what I thought he would expect from me. So, wouldn't you? In chef mafia you definitely interacted with us and appealed to sysy's incorrect read on you in raptured and I've completely forgotten where I'm going with this. I've had a bit to drink and should probably just go to sleep.

[Tammy]

ffery is still talking about cabd

Vote: ffery

This is strange reasoning for a vote.

[Tammy]

Tammy

HUUUUUU

I would not have expected those two to come in at the bottom tier pregame <_<
Maybe their scumgames are actually as weak as they always claim
I'd kinda expect them to have fun as scum if scum together though, so it seems more likely the lack of a TAMMYPIRE is a 1town-1scum.

I'm just going to go with you're not allowed to give reads on me anymore.

dude you have no idea how weak my scum game is.

I'd imagine if we ever got to be scum together we'd just bus each other because fuck win conditions, bragging rights last forever!

LIAR LIAR LIAR

Your scum game actually has me paranoid so I want to call you Town but I'm so scared of doing it because it's like when I sorta thought Tierce was scum but "town" Tammy led me away subtly and I knew Tierce was scum but my townread manipulated me and I felt so used and I don't know where this is going but I basically want to explain to the game how dangerous you are.

<3

Well I think it's nothing short of terrible, but I've been told it's not as bad as I think it is. But I'm still liking this paranoia, it feels real and not fake like the last few times scum have been too "paranoid" to give a read on me.

(And yes, skyrim is awesome)

[Tammy]

Rereading this, I'm seeing we made a disconnect re the bolded. "not really making any effort" meant that I didn't see you pursuing lines of questioning. Your reads refinement looks like it's based mostly on what's being left in the thread from other players' interactions. And your own prior paragraph actually reinforces that - observing rather than pushing.

I don't get a lot of data from watching people in observation mode, hence my deciding to interact.

Ah, I do. It's actually my preferred day one play. I much prefer to see how the arguments go and balance that out with what makes sense to me, and pushing what feels natural to me.

I had to learn how to be pushy and aggressive day one because it tended to get me a bit of flack until people got used to me and because sometimes noone pushes the game forward, so in that instance I do.

[Tammy]

Empire, your posts have a sort of consultant feel to them. It worries me.

Empire told me that he's working on changing his playstyle; I don't know if this is what he meant. But there's something bothering me, and I'm interested to see his response to my last question.

[Tammy]

Can we leave meta reads out of the game until we actually have a decent amount of posts to take something from. Each game is different and town meta is emulatable. They are not reliable as a case or a defense. You can use it to back something you find scummy up, but don't use it as a base.

Who has meta on Tammy they can give me? Is she always like this or is it indicative of an alignment, because it comes across as sassy, which usually would point to a mindset, but I have no idea how to work out what that mindset might be.

@CabD, If your vote was elsewhere, which wagon would you most support and why?

Is sarcasm and sass part of her scum game or town game and not the other?

[Tammy]

Yeah but normally I'm paranoid for a while and then I stop being paranoid, correctly so. This game I just think you're scum. Relatedly, I have not seen you be scum.

I can't ignore this correlation.

That's too bad for both of us if you're town.

Though, I'm in the middle of kinda fun state of mind with regard to this game. I see myself as approaching confirmed town status and my reads are going to be golden if that happens. So I should keep working on those reads.

Okay the ffery wagon is officially stupid.

Cabd? You're still scum reading ffery?

[Tammy]

Espeonage's posts are all terrible so my vote is in a good place

BB! Do we finally get to be town together again?!?

[Tammy]

Tammy, Empire,

What are your thoughts about ABP?

I think he and pjovek are both competing for who's making my headache worse. I have no idea how to read people who play like that if I've never seen them play. (Well, I have seen pjovek play and I'm near ready to just string him up right now, but that could be my headache talking.)

[Tammy]

Tammy, Empire,

What are your thoughts about ABP?

I think he and pjovek are both competing for who's making my headache worse. I have no idea how to read people who play like that if I've never seen them play. (Well, I have seen pjovek play and I'm near ready to just string him up right now, but that could be my headache talking.)

I was hoping you'd played with him before.

His assertion that I"m town is somewhat boggling given our game experience together. Especially when some people who actually have experience with my game are misreading me this time. I've ISO'd a few of his games of both alignments, and I'm finding it difficult to pull out stuff that looks both alignment-relevant and comparable to this game.

What is your experience together?

[Tammy]

Espeonage's posts are all terrible so my vote is in a good place

BB! Do we finally get to be town together again?!?

Yes. 80% sure.

You're only 80% sure you're town >_>

[Tammy]

I actually don't think the post Tammy brought up is especially telling, but it did cause me to reconsider your improvement over the last few pages.

I've found it takes a special type of player confident in their scum game to claim to be confirmed town or say they think they're nearing confirmed town status (and that their reads will be golden if that happens). Now I think ffery's scum game is better than she thinks it is, but it's not something I imagine her saying as scum.

[Tammy]

@Tammy, I took it under advisement and didn't use it as an intensive scumhunting tool.

We've been over this.

?

But you asked for it. And then later asked other people not to use what meta they have with other people. But my point is you asked for it. (And then were just satisfied with a half answer but whatever)

[Tammy]

Okay we have a week before deadline. I need to reread the game to feel more situated, that won't happen before Thursday/Friday though.

[Tammy]

Who has meta on Tammy they can give me? Is she always like this or is it indicative of an alignment, because it comes across as sassy, which usually would point to a mindset, but I have no idea how to work out what that mindset might be.

@CabD, If your vote was elsewhere, which wagon would you most support and why?

Is sarcasm and sass part of her scum game or town game and not the other?

No, you weren't. You said it was indicative of a mindset and you didn't know what mindset. You wanted meta to determine whether or not I was sarcastic as which alignment, and then became satisfied with a half answer from someone who really doesn't know my meta.

So, yeah your "I don't like meta" thing is hogwash.

[Tammy]

My urge to lynch pjovek meter is rising.

[Tammy]

Who has meta on Tammy they can give me? Is she always like this or is it indicative of an alignment, because it comes across as sassy, which usually would point to a mindset, but I have no idea how to work out what that mindset might be.

@CabD, If your vote was elsewhere, which wagon would you most support and why?

Is sarcasm and sass part of her scum game or town game and not the other?

No, you weren't. You said it was indicative of a mindset and you didn't know what mindset. You wanted meta to determine whether or not I was sarcastic as which alignment, and then became satisfied with a half answer from someone who really doesn't know my meta.

So, yeah your "I don't like meta" thing is hogwash.

I'm sorry Tammy but WHO CARES
Why do people make these arguments like "you said you don't like meta but you found this particular meta useful?"
Humans can say inconsistent things while meaning every sentence.

I CARE.

If it speaks to me about his mindset and whether or not his bullshit suspicion on me is crackpot genuine or scum making up a reason to suspect someone I'm going to question it. From here it looks like he's just randomly throwing out crap to see if it sticks. I can't really follow his thought process and he's doing more sideline sniping than anything else, which looks to me like commenting on stuff to look busy but not dig into alignments.

[Tammy]

You're allowed to call him scum.
You're not allowed to use the fact that he said he doesn't like meta against him when he contemplates meta.
You can say "I thought you didn't like meta?" and see what he says, because it's a point of interest, but hypocrisy and self contradiction aren't scumtells.

Thanks dad.

Pretty sure what I did achieved the same thing as asking him that question, because it's the same thing. And I never said hypocrisy and self-contradiction are scum tells.

[Tammy]

The thing is, your play is exactly like Dot:A. So you're scum. Simple, really.

I don't see it. I feel pretty good about Katsuki being town here.

[Tammy]

Well sometimes it's a product of selective scumhunting, which is a scumtell I believe in inasmuch as I believe in scumtells, but sometimes it's just a deficiency in scumhunting or just a product of random thought spewing. I'm more interested in figuring out if the suspicion is actually genuine because that might help me figure out his alignment.

[Tammy]

Oh, ETL is here, things ought to get interesting. ETL you keeping the claim of your slot? Poisoner is a pretty cool role, what with the wine theme and all, but I'm not sure how town it is.

Wut?
Like wut?
I thought I must have missed something so I checked CTD's iso, and not one mention of Poisoner. So wtf?

People like to do reaction tests to newcomers sometimes. It's popular among those who like the fake hammer gambit.

[Tammy]

As I was reading through the tso v katsuki thing it occurred to me that save espeonage, I have town reads to varying degrees on everyone who's active. I really need to read this in one sitting to see if I'm missing anything because otherwise it's in the in actives/trolls/lurkers and it's never that easy.

[Tammy]

His paranoia of me doesn't feel fake. It's still something I'm a little wary of after several scum used a "I can't read you because I'm paranoid" but his "I want to tell the game how dangerous you are" while makes me laugh because I can't imagine me being scary as scum, reads genuine.

[Tammy]

It's a shame, because as drunk as ETL was, she probably would have fallen for it.

It's a shame because drunk posting is usually hilarious, and I like company >_>

[Tammy]

About to head into a job interview, will catch up in here at some point today, sorry for dropping the ball so far.

Good luck!

And today's over

[Tammy]

Hey so it absolutely pains me to have to do this but my life has gotten to the point where I don't have time for mafia at all and I need to focus on dealing with all of that stuff.

@mod: Please replace me.

Good luck with everything guys.

I only joined this game because you told me to.

[Tammy]

So now that Empire is gone we can lynch his slot without feeling bad about WHAT IF WE JUST LYNCHED TOWN EMPIRE AND WE SUCK?

*snerk*

ALSO, I have wine and some time, I'm gonna get that re-read done. Hopefully. I wanna play video games instead though.

[Tammy]

I'm not good with annoying players who annoy me, and every time pjovek posts I want to lynch him.

[Tammy]

*ignoring players who annoy me

[Tammy]

TSO - I really really think you're wrong about katsuki.

[Tammy]

Disagreed.

His explanations apply too different of standards to players.
In the way of looking very much to be chosen at random.
Giving a townread to one and a scumread to the other for the same thing, suggests a serious lack of genuine thought, meaning it could very well all be fake.

Why can't more of your posts be like this?

[Tammy]

Unvote, vote Pjovek

I had a habit of posting weird lyrics in my first post as scum, nobody ever caught me on it. It was like a serial killer's ritual.

Easily the most scummy post in this game

vote Alberto Bono Rompage

Selfmeta(1) on something completely meaningless(2), plus some fearmongering(3) on top because why not and to top it off, a shittily justified(4) jump on an easy wagon(5)

Wow 5 scum. So amaze.

Hmmm....earlier in the game I voted ABR for overexplaining a vote. I think I was sleepwalking or something because I think I voted the wrong person. This is overexplaining a vote.

[Tammy]

No.

[Tammy]

VOTE: ffery

Also pjo I get the feeling you don't like your feminine side. A shame. Gotta embrace that kind of thing.

Giving a cautios early town read to tso due to his paranoia of me. I'd probably just read him as solid town for it but several recent games have had scum refusing to read me due to "paranoia" so.

Taking the above out of consideration, would you still read him as town based on the rest of his play?

Now, I'd probably just have him as null, actually. He seems to be just preaching the same thing over and over again without taking anything else into consideration, which is worrisome.

pedit: thank you very much for your mafia advice i just started playing mafia yesterday and definitely didn't say that i was rereading. i'll play my way, and you play your way. i'm pretty happy with the results i get, so you can keep complaining but it will do you no good.

[Tammy]

well that's weird, i have no idea why it quoted that first post :/

[Tammy]

VOTE: ffery

Also pjo I get the feeling you don't like your feminine side. A shame. Gotta embrace that kind of thing.

There's no need to be combative. I was asking if you wouldn't mind giving us your conclusions after your re-read, since your post by post follow-ups are hard to follow.

pretend they're a quote stripe wall! I think my thoughts are easy to follow, and of course i'll give my conclusions after my re-read but I'm also going to respond to things that stand out to me as I'm going along. You're not going to change my playstyle anymore than anyone who told you that doing a vca on day one before a flip is stupid (which it is) is going to make you change yours, so you should probably drop it and let me do my thing.

[Tammy]

Why does that keep happening?

I feel like a stalker right now.

[Tammy]

It's sitting in my outbox unopened

I've been feeling rejected and crying all week.

[Tammy]

Cephrir's posts keep making me chuckle. Town.

[Tammy]

Marble continues to be adorable, so town.

[Tammy]

More wine, more time, will finish tonight.

[Tammy]

. However I'm not seeing this supposed empire/tammy thing that Llama seems to.
.

It's completely moot now, but what marble was referring to is what would have happened if empire would have stayed/been more active. Empire and I are friends who hydra together and can read each other pretty well. He was looking to see what would come of the sorting process.

[Tammy]

Point being, why did it take me saying something about it to call you to action on him?

Why would you assume that you were the trigger? that seems pretty self centered. Its more likely that I was the trigger.

lol... when your ISO is full of any number of triggers he could have used to land a vote on you and he didn't, I'm going to assume it is the new influence, and not the old.

How often have you played with Molla?

whoops

[Tammy]

cabd - scumfuck, role pm matters not
empire - null/scum
chamber - probtown
tammy - probtown
fferyllt - half of morph what do you expect?
bbmolla - null
TSO - town
Llamarble - I dunno maybe? want to say null because based on reputation I would have expected him to have the game solved by now.
projectmatt - where did he go? null at best.
pjovek - probtown
EspeciallyTheLies - null/town?
Katsuki - town
Albert B. Rampage - null/scum
espeonage - probtown

I already have you as town, but if I didn't, I'd think you were town now from something in your post. Bonus points if someone can tell me why.

BB is looks town here. Like, I haven't felt this good about BB since our pop princess game, we wont' talk about my paranoia on him like day five but that's just par for the course for me :/

I still think that espeonage is scum, and I feel better about matt and marble than you do.

I know this was here for cabd, but

[Tammy]

Hey myko, that Empire fella ain't around no more.

you don't have to feel insecure nat.

[Tammy]

Because you're being intransigently useless. You don't do that as scum.

Cabd do you just accept this reasoning for why you're *probably* town?

[Tammy]

That works. Nati gets a few pages to obvtown. Just pretend the red wine theme thing is a mechanic and approach it.

Well I was in chat i believe when he asked for a theme, so I guess "asking chat for your theme" is a mechanic? Maybe he'll ask the chat who's scum later, too? We might be secretly playing Con Mafia r2, man.

The name of this game is because it's my favorite drink!

And the rest, well made me laugh, and i'm lame so everyone knows what that means.

[Tammy]

I only joined this game because you told me to.

Tammy, I'm twice the man Empire will

ever

be.

You have a lot to live up to Nat

[Tammy]

Because you're being intransigently useless. You don't do that as scum.

Cabd do you just accept this reasoning for why you're *probably* town?

I don't recall saying I did.

Didn't say you did. It's why that was a question.

[Tammy]

empire (now nati) - null/scum

I didn't see any parallells to Boatgame, personally. You'll have to walk me through those some more. That said, nati should be able to give us a good show either way.

I can't call him town based on what's in the game. And I feel like I should be able to, even with my smidge of experiential meta. Will probably pretend he never posted and see what Nati puts down in the thread.

I'm about here with that slot. I hate that I didn't get to interact with empire as that's how we sort each other out. I will note that I would feel much better about that slot if when he replaced out he said "good luck town" instead of "guys". It reminds me of when you were lynched in Chef mafia but I can't really get a feel on that without seeing how he responds to me.

bbmolla - null

You know, his play this game calls me back to my very first game here, where he was town that got mislynched. (The one with sex jokes and then nacho replacing into obvscum slot)

The only completed game I have with him is Rach's Half Baked Curse mini. He lurked the hell out of that game before he was lynched at...MYLO? There was no personality at all in his posts. Reminded me of Empking's style of minimalism.

Go back and read that game and read his iso here. BB started off all right there, but it's pretty different to here. I have a few markers that I think work pretty well with reading BB, and him saying that he's only 80% sure of his town read of me and thinking that people were silly for town reading Chamber as well as his push on espeonage then flip to chamber then flip to ABR reads like town him not scum him.

Llamarble - I dunno maybe? want to say null because based on reputation I would have expected him to have the game solved by now.

BoP ruins reads. Here you go using that "want" filler again.

It's a very weak read. This is my first game with llamarble.

I have a way I read marble, and the way I read him goes. Is he being adorable and a little arrogant? If he is, he's probably town. Also, he's probably just as obnoxious as I am about being obvtown when he feels like he's towned really hard. I'd have to re-read through his scum games, but that's missing. So, his statements like "my iq will only be this high once in november," "I'm pulling out the obvtown card and vetoing this lynch," etc reads town. Oh as does his early scum read on empire when he was like you can claim scum and kill me tonight or whatever.

projectmatt - where did he go? null at best.

I'm leaning scum here, compare chosen vs wingate.

Yeah he reminds me of Chosen.

Tammy? thoughts?

I'm still predisposed to town read Matt after my hammer in wingate. But, other than rate of participation, which is actually similar to Wingate then no. But, here's where I feel good about Matt:

Empire, I am interested in hearing your other townreads but more specifically I am interested in knowing who you have scumreads on apart from Espeonage. Get to that.

The only way I see Matt scum in this situation is if he's scum with empire. I just don't see him scum with a town empire interacting that way. I just don't. I'd have to go back and look at our qt in Chosen, but I'm pretty sure I remember one of the first things we said to each other was how bad our scum games were, so this denotes a level of confidence I don't see a scum him displaying to a town empire. They've been playing together for a while. If I'm not mistaken, they played together quite regularly together at EpicMafia, so I think he would be a little bit more nervous.

[Tammy]

Also, there's something Re:Nati I'm waiting to see or not see.

Does he have a TIP tell?

[Tammy]

#269 seems important for later once we get a flip from those two.
#271 sounds like Towmmy though.

I love the names people come up with for me.

[Tammy]

How are you townreading Espeonage EtL?

Genuine posts that seem to have the intention of getting to the bottom of people's reads and statements. Lots of good questions, good pushes. He also didn't hop on the easy, obvlynchbait wagons. Like ABR.

These aren't reasons to town read anyone with any modicum of experience.

(Although I don't see his good questions or good pushes either, but I admit to being biased in on them there. But even the ones that aren't me, I don't get where you see good.)

[Tammy]

It does, but I feel like everyone is just "lol it's the moron, he's shit, he's town but we'll ignore him."

Because I did show a portion of the Katsuki case and I cannot comprehend how, reading it, you could find him Town. Cephrir at least looked at it.

i looked at your case TSO, I just think it's wrong.

[Tammy]

And I think people are bandwagoning a read on Pjovek as Town - he spammed and now he's lurking and I hate that because it's unnatural.

We can string him up! I'd be fine with his lynch no matter his alignment at this point.

[Tammy]

I don't, no. I'm on my phone ATM; but ill say that the reads list is what I'd expect as either alignment, it's how she hammers them out with me that makes it a read on her one way or the other.

I'm wondering why you're leaving gigantic clues for next game lying around in this thread.

I don't get this comment.

[Tammy]

empire (now nati) - null/scum

I didn't see any parallells to Boatgame, personally. You'll have to walk me through those some more. That said, nati should be able to give us a good show either way.

I can't call him town based on what's in the game. And I feel like I should be able to, even with my smidge of experiential meta. Will probably pretend he never posted and see what Nati puts down in the thread.

I'm about here with that slot. I hate that I didn't get to interact with empire as that's how we sort each other out. I will note that I would feel much better about that slot if when he replaced out he said "good luck town" instead of "guys". It reminds me of when you were lynched in Chef mafia but I can't really get a feel on that without seeing how he responds to me.

This is a very idiosyncratic tell. I didn't point it out in chef mafia because I was closing up shop at that point, but I've been FoSed for saying "good luck town" because it implies a separation, like I'm not part of "town". In that instance, I was town, but I took the FoS to heart anyway.

This is very much in the eye of the beholder, and also is probably something you need meta for to be sure. i.e., how does Empire usually phrase a replace-out post? Does it vary based on alignment?

To be sure it is, but and I realize I could be projecting a bit, but empire is more town-minded like I am in that we both hate being scum. So, his natural inclination, I would think, would be to cheer for town. I'm pretty sure that empire has never replaced out of any games before, so there's nothing to compare it to, and I fully admit I could be squinty-eyed here, but without interaction I'm left with half analysis.

[Tammy]

ETL - What do you think of ABR's vote on BBMolla?

[Tammy]

Still think that espeonage is scum.

I'm not going to cry over an ABR or Pjovek lynch though.

Everyone else is town. We should hold hands, sing kumbaya and roast marshmallows.

[Tammy]

DON'T CAPSLOCK AT ME.

[Tammy]

ffery iu liked your gwen avatar better you should change it back.

[Tammy]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about I thought we were here to talk about petroleum

[Tammy]

Are you sober, Lady Ffery? Or am I alone?

You're totally alone if you're sober Nat.

[Tammy]

it's his birthday he's fdinkging alot right now.

[Tammy]

hje's pretending.

[Tammy]

it's his birthday he's fdinkging alot right now.

For what it's worth, it's actually not my birthday yet. I'm celebrating lynx's early. Mine is December tenth.

22 hosts over the course of a moth is not as impressive

stupid

as over a weekend.

[Tammy]

hosts?

*shots

[Tammy]

Tammy - about BB's vote on ABR? I am convinced ABR is scum. Even if he's sitting back and not doing much, the fact of the matter is that his votes give him away. What he says makes little difference when the actions don't back them up. So with that, I have a scumlean on BB, as well as you, so it could be bussing, and I'd be fine with that.

I'm sure there's a reason I asked this. Putting this here to find it when I'm done catching up.

[Tammy]

Disagreed.

His explanations apply too different of standards to players.
In the way of looking very much to be chosen at random.
Giving a townread to one and a scumread to the other for the same thing, suggests a serious lack of genuine thought, meaning it could very well all be fake.

Why can't more of your posts be like this?

Unvote, vote Pjovek

I had a habit of posting weird lyrics in my first post as scum, nobody ever caught me on it. It was like a serial killer's ritual.

Easily the most scummy post in this game

vote Alberto Bono Rompage

Selfmeta(1) on something completely meaningless(2), plus some fearmongering(3) on top because why not and to top it off, a shittily justified(4) jump on an easy wagon(5)

Wow 5 scum. So amaze.

Hmmm....earlier in the game I voted ABR for overexplaining a vote. I think I was sleepwalking or something because I think I voted the wrong person. This is overexplaining a vote.

More of my posts should overexplain things for the slow people, but I shouldn't overexplain.

I imagine that since you don't know what you want, you're never going to be happy with my posts. Which is fine. Just stop pretending the problem is on my end.

Catching up to the rest of the thread today-ish.

No. Scum often have a need to explain in depth their votes. Your overexplanation on your vote on ABR looks weird because for a simple vote it looks over explained...over what is natural.

I don't have to pretend the problem is with you. Sometimes, when the majority of people are having a problem with one person, it's the cause of that one person, but you can deflect all you want.

[Tammy]

Unvote, vote Espeonage

Will you fucking explain your vote changes?

Unvote, vote Espeonage

Such a great deep and profound post that totally shakes up the gamestate.

You showing up at pretty much the exact same time to comment on avote change is amusing.

[Tammy]

Lol, I have a 100% win rate as Jester on day 1.

I'm back, I've been following through my VLA when peeps have been doing stuff but I'm going to go back through and post my thoughts. I did see the meta argument, and I can't really compete against that conclusion, this is different to how I played that game, then again that's only one game. I don't believe I'm that clear cut but ok.

Cabd, as someone that is reading Tammy as really scummy, I find your faith in her seriously disturbing. You and ffery will bring some really cool stuff I feel, I don't think there's enough day to do that today though.

But yeah, Imma go read back.

blah blah blah

and are you an Avox or zdenek alt?

[Tammy]

And I think people are bandwagoning a read on Pjovek as Town - he spammed and now he's lurking and I hate that because it's unnatural.

I was reading an old game of mine a couple of weeks ago where a VI I really liked playing with was mafia and he played the game like a harp and only really got killed because PoE for Cult Recruiter. And frankly, I'm terrible at reading VIs I've realised. I think it's a psychological thing because I used to think I was a terrible player (I was).

But yeah this post rings of truth, and it'd be pretty cool if we come back to this tomorrow or I guess today is chamber wants to get off his bum.

nope this isn't a scum post at all i'm crazy for thinking this dude is scum.

[Tammy]

I used FoSes? Sheeeet. I'm pretty sure I can pull up times where I've lynched people for using that term. I might have to properly read that game again.

As for the bolded, simple typo in the first part. And it's hard to tell, I really don't see you both as scum. I wouldn't say you've gone down, more that others have come up in scumminess.

... you might have to properly read your past game again???

[Tammy]

Sure, I have a lot of time, give me a bit though.

In general I think we're on the right track, and I really think ABR is the lynch for today.

Beebs I want to know how sure you feel on this right now.

[Tammy]

I agree that is a town-driven wagon. Jury is still out on BBmolla. I wish I was coherently around when he returned to the thread.

TSO, jsyk.... the only reason I'm not gunning for your useless butt is because I am very certain on ABR. You have not escaped my radar.

Look I'm not sure if you have it out for me this game or some shit like that, but I'm actually working with what I have this game.

And I have fuck all this game. My townreads are basically the same as everyone else's, I'm proclaiming Katsuki-scum to the heavens. You don't like that, I don't see why, but no-one seems to. And that's terrible for me and probably for you.

So you're calling me useless when I'm looking at the wagons, I get called useless when I fucking tell you guys who are scum. So what do you want me to do when I can't even tunnel on one of my only scumreads this game?

I'm not confident on ABR, by the way. I worry you've mixed up ABR "scumminess" with ABR "not giving two continental fucks". Do you really think a guy who has wrote multiple articles could actually be this bad as scum?

Plenty of people are being useless. Chamber has done fuck-all this game. Pjovek has also done nothing for the last idk even pages.

Exactly what is your agenda of constantly calling me out?

I wouldn't take ETl calling you useless seriously...just ftr. She has an overinflated scumhunting ego.

[Tammy]

I'm going to have to yell to get my way aren't I? I feel like I'm going to have to yell.

[Tammy]

Oh. My. Gods. VCA on day one before a flip is fucking moronic, but ETL's insistence that her weird ass scum hunting techniques are super cool is probably an indication that she's town, though I'd have to look at a scum game of hers to see if it's also this ridiculous. I've found that here and my homesite, those who troll vote on wagons are more likely town than not, so ABR is probably a bad wagon.

[Tammy]

Oh yeah. I forgot. I'm lazy. I don't like meta diving the way you do. The one I witnessed is still on. I saw others in his topics. I'm at work so not ISOing or opening multiple thread tabs at the moment. You can always look, but honestly it's not even part of my case on him here. If I remember when I get home, I'll post it for you.

If you have actually done this then nevermind. But part of your argument against ABR is that he argues against his lynch. You don't get to go LOLI dontlikemeta when someone asks you for proof of what you've already stated in this game.

And it is absolutely part of your case against him, when you've stated that his reaction here is atypical of the reaction you've seen.

[Tammy]

espeonage (5): natirasha, tammy, projectmatt, fferyllt, Albert B. Rampage

Here's another reason...

- My top scum read, ABR, is on the competing wagon.
- Espeonage gave be good town vibes on my read-through.
- Nat and Tammy are difficult to put in the town pile and either could easily be scum, switching out with BB in my list.
- pmatt is clueless, as far as I can tell, at least for the moment.


That leaves only you, ffery, as a reasonable player I could trust to really look into their reads. One person out of five on a wagon I don't agree with leads me to believe I am correct that it is a wagon on town.

Hi! How you doin? This is dumb. I'd tell you why, but I'm gonna guess you'd ignore me and tell me I'm wrong; if you're actually interested why scum reading anyone this way is wrong I'll be happy otherwise I'm just gonna go



(faradat i hope you're happy)

[Tammy]

TBH I don't see much conviction in those espe posts that Cabd is scum.

But like I've said, both wagons are good wagons, I'm not terribly worried.

But do you see conviction that I'm scum?

[Tammy]

Ffery, no offense, but you really like to zero in on stuff that paints an obscure picture that is hard to follow. Y

ou bang hard on that little shit, that to me, really doesn't mean anything.

That's what I feel about the first quote. I feel it is a nothing issue.

What's wrong with suggesting pjo is a VI? He was acting like it early game. If he wasn't the wagon wouldn't have formed. It was not entirely scum driven, there were certainly town on it. But yeah pjo was acting like a douche. He's better now. Now that we've gotten a chance to adjust to his temperature. It's the people who didn't eventually realize that and look elsewhere that concern me.

Griping about cabd's gambits? I do not like gambits either. Do you? Especially town gambits. (See: Wake88)

The only part of this whole thing that makes any sense for Esp-scum is the very last sentence. But without the rest actually equaling scum, I don't see it. And the rest does not equal scum, imo.

How Ironic.

Part two - he's saying Pjovek is a Vi, but we should worry about him tomorrow. How in the world don't you see anything wrong with that? Like, how? I just. I just.

[Tammy]

Griping about cabd's gambits? I do not like gambits either. Do you? Especially town gambits. (See: Wake88)

Back the fuck up. What I do has nothing to do with the kind of fucked up shit wake pulls. I actually do things that further my wincon. That was an insult to my character, and you will retract it.

lol

[Tammy]

ABR - why is BB one of your biggest suspects?

[Tammy]

Albert B. Rampage (5): katsuki, pjovek, cephrir, especiallythelies, bbmolla

But look at this.

- I have evidence that convinces me ABR is scum.
- I believe pjovek to be town, and ceph is also very town for me.
- I put katsuki in a null-mostly-leaning-town area.

- BB is the only one I am not feeling good about on the wagon of my choice.

Well I mean I would probably be bussing him if we were buddies here if that makes you feel any better

Actually this is true, and if ABR flips town BB is most definitely town.

[Tammy]

Eh I may wanna vote someone else not sure of things yet but why no scum sheep me vs empire if empire not scum?

Then sheep me and we'll figure out Nat tomorrow?

[Tammy]

Btw, ftr, Myko chooses random shit as game names, the last being Lord Patator Charlixion the 6th, a game with a secret cult. So for anyone wondering, Red Wine is probably literally irrelevent.

Let's see...this is how this went.

On skype Myko went "Tammy what's your favorite drink". I said "Red Wine". He said "That will do."

If there's a theme to this game, it could have something to do with drinks, but is absolutely independent of Red Wine.

[Tammy]

Actually this is true, and if ABR flips town BB is most definitely town.

How exactly does that follow?

BB isn't lying about his bussing tendency of people who are weaker partners, so when he says if ABR was my buddy I'd be bussing him, that feels right. If ABR is scum, then BB would most likely bus.

[Tammy]

Wait. I'm dumb.

[Tammy]

I still think that BB is more likely town regardless but ABR doesn't mean he's town cuz he could just as easily be pushing a mislynch.

[Tammy]

Now, I've had a feeling growing on me that Kat felt she could ride bard's towncard hard and figured she could just go about her business and stay under the radar as a result. However, were I handed an obv town slot I would instantly start pressing everywhere to try and get a following and pressure to try and nab a bit of momentum to get some reads off. I.

Why aren't you doing that anyway?

[Tammy]

Two things:

One - Why is chamber calling out this post:

My reads are bad, I have a townread on everyone to a lesser extent minus chamber

SIGH

This post is a post scum me would make.

but not this one:

Still think that espeonage is scum.

I'm not going to cry over an ABR or Pjovek lynch though.

Everyone else is town. We should hold hands, sing kumbaya and roast marshmallows.

which essentially says the same thing.

Two: I forget. Give me a minute.

[Tammy]

Not just a minute. I have no clue what my second thought was. Maybe tomorrow.

[Tammy]

TBH I don't see much conviction in those espe posts that Cabd is scum.

But like I've said, both wagons are good wagons, I'm not terribly worried.

But do you see conviction that I'm scum?

Kinda? I didn't say the guy was town.

You're supposed to read my mind. I'm asking you if you see that Espy has conviction that I'm scum because I see lip service but no real conviction.

Actually this is true, and if ABR flips town BB is most definitely town.

How exactly does that follow?

BB isn't lying about his bussing tendency of people who are weaker partners, so when he says if ABR was my buddy I'd be bussing him, that feels right. If ABR is scum, then BB would most likely bus.

This logic appears to me to add up to "BB is town no matter what", admittedly on the basis of WIFOM but the point remains (sorta).

And Cephrir translates the late night ramblings of Tammy! Well sorta but not exactly. If ABR flips scum then BB is more likely town because I believe him about bussing a weaker partner. If he's town, it's not as definitive, though I still lean town on BB regardless.

[Tammy]

Yay, good game guys, thanks for carrying the torch guyett!

I'm really sorry for replacing out. I was in a bad mood and feeling really homesick at thanksgiving and just decided I didn't want anything to do with mafia. I realized I was being stupid the next day and was able to delete my other replace out requests before the mods got them, but myko had already found a replacement. So, sorry for being silly

I thought that I was doing pretty decent as scum too; I wish I would have tried to see it to through the end. But gods does being scum make me feel terrible. I was messaging empire the other night about how bad I felt after seeing ffery's analysis of my play and deciding it was town.

Ffery I actually wasn't lying about my self meta on day one and how I prefer to approach it.

Espeonage - I had fun arguing with you day one too!

Thanks for running it myko!

[Tammy]

Dead qt?

[Tammy]

Awe! Falcon thinks I have a mean understated scum game?

Also, tso I was not lying about my scum game. I think it's all a matter of perspective. I feel like I have a terrible scum game; it's gotten a little better over the past year as I've been trying to accept that the lying aspect is all part of the game. But I don't enjoy it. Lately people have been telling me it's not as horrible as I think it is, but it doesn't really change how I view my scum game.

Also I think being scum with empire here helped reinforce the town read I had on him in faradays upick. He was playing just so differently.

What's an elite bodyguard?

[Tammy]

This was embarrassingly bad of me. Good job carrying it off, though I don't know why you insisted on bussing each other so much.

What's funny was I had every intention when the game started to defend espeonage. But then things played out the way they did and I tried to do what town me would have. Empire was always going to be tricky because of how we interact with each other and read each other when town though.

Sometimes it's just fun to bus/have arguments with your scum buds though :p