Red Wine Mafia: Game Over

[Espeonage]

Hey peeps, been a while, but I'm back and playing.

Vote: CrashTextDummie

No vote, don't want to make enemies?

[Espeonage]

@CabD: I haven't played for over a year and a half. I wouldn't be so sure about being the worst in this game.

@Pjovek: I was cool with you until #49. Sarcasm isn't going to make me happy with you and drawing attention to yourself like that is going to get in the way.

@Chamber: I don't want to think you're trying to derail a day 1, but we're not going for Pjo. Not yet anyway. Then again, nonchalant has always kind of gut read town for me.

Interested to know, what is the current site meta for day ones, there are many fewer votes than I'm used to seeing.

[Espeonage]

Ok, let me try this way.

Chamber do you think Pjo is scum? If not, why are you demanding his lynch when it is entirely possible to ignore someone and actually scumhunt?

[Espeonage]

Lol, routine. Check out my game history. Anyway, not important. My advice to you Bard, head out of the scumhunting text book, tell me what you're feeling in your gut.

unvote, vote: TSO

wagons are at their strongest (informatively) when they're competing.

[Espeonage]

I was reading back over what I missed while sleeping and was about to make a post about TSB taking his head out of his ass and actually being helpful, but I guess I can skip that now.

Pretty sure that Pjo and Katsuki are town. Chamber is also sitting on the town side of the fence for me. There are quite a few people that I have no sort of read on at the moment. I do want to see some wagons going though. If we keep arguing about obv town being obv town we're going to get nowhere.

[Espeonage]

My alts have all already been identified as me. Probs because most were made as part of rulesets specifically for alts. <3 Zoraster. But alot of people like to remain unknown for meta, personal, or experience reasons.

That aside, the ABR wagons seems fairly insubstantial. What do?

[Espeonage]

Can we get "L-" on the wagons, or at least the largest wagon. Saves any misunderstandings.

[Espeonage]

I've already said I don't agree with your wagon.

It is possible for both wagons to be bad wagons. From my small experience with ABR, I doubt he would respond. As far as I can see the reasoning as using a small reason to place a vote on me.

What more than a shallow observation on a shallow reasoned wagon?

[Espeonage]

Who has meta on Tammy they can give me? Is she always like this or is it indicative of an alignment, because it comes across as sassy, which usually would point to a mindset, but I have no idea how to work out what that mindset might be.

@CabD, If your vote was elsewhere, which wagon would you most support and why?

[Espeonage]

Is sarcasm and sass part of her scum game or town game and not the other?

[Espeonage]

Oh, I think projectmatt's Town too.

The ABR wagon is uninspired. Actually, all the top wagons are bad.

This is a good post. But we kinda need a wagon. The fact that none have been drummed up to l-3 or l-2 means that either scum are being voted for or scum sitting around trying to do nothing important.

unvote, vote: mindgamer

Pressure wagon please.

[Espeonage]

I will, but if I'm going to you need to be open to change, as opposed to tunnelling on your former scumread anyway.

Quote me the case you made already.

I'm the most open-minded guy in the world.

My mind is as open as a lady's legs when she sees my sex appeal.

Vote mindgamer. At least until we get something out of him, then we might actually have something to play with instead of sitting around twiddling our thumbs at L-5.

[Espeonage]

What do you propose then?

[Espeonage]

To be honest, I was happy with what I got from Cabd. He felt honest and genuine and actually trying to help. As for you Tammy, I'm feeling more and more that I want to lynch you.

You've been either coasting on sass or, as you're doing now, deflecting. And I don't like it. I'm happy with Tammy being pushed for a bit.

[Espeonage]

@Everyone: Get your vote on something good that the rest of the town cares about. It's useless having five people on one vote. That goes for everyone else too.

That means either bring up a reason for a vote that will make someone follow that is new, or slap onto a cause someone else has that you agree with.

[Espeonage]

@Chamber: Are you going to actually be helpful, or are you keep on sticking to a stagnant wagon that has lost all of its steam because of policy reasons that are quite outdated? I might not think you're scum, but your still being mighty anti town.
@Tammy: I said I was happy to wagon on you. And I'm sure you're quite aware that there are usually more than one scum in a game, hence I am perfectly capable and welcome to think more than just you are scum, and just as welcome to be voting other suspects. I might not be pleased with the results, but he told me that it might be an indicator and I am happy to take away that info. He didn't sound certain and thus the non-committal but honest answer is entirely fine in my book. Would you rather he said she's only like this when scum so you can feel better about trying to drive a wagon on him?

[Espeonage]

I asked if it was indicitive or part of only one alignment. I got a negative answer to the former. That constitutes answering imo. I didn't stick a vote on you because of it. I took it in to consideration. It's the fallout that has put you in the scumreads and it was the tone that put you under consideration in the first place. I didn't vocalise that I thought you were scummy until the fallout. I don't know what agenda you think I was using it for, but it's a falsity to blame it on the meta read that was advertised as not being all inclusive.

That's not answering the question. And see above.

[Espeonage]

Cabd's right? Your scum aren't you ffery?

If you think Cabd is right about me, why is your vote on espeonage?

Unfortunately Im not a double voter.

Nice hypocrisy.

[Espeonage]

Nice way to ensure every option is covered so that no matter what answer could be given. And you're telling me you aren't trying to incriminate out of nothing. I don't care if he knows your meta or not. I care that is was an honest answer. Cabd might actually be mafia, he might have been trying to push me into hastily voting for you. But, as I keep saying: That. Is. Not. Why. I. Am. Voting. You!

PEdit: Hmm?

[Espeonage]

-.-

That be true.

She's in my scumreads though. Know what I meant. etc, etc.

[Espeonage]

I don't like rvs truth be told, so I either start accusing people or I hard wagon whatever presents itself. I do it in all alignments. There's a reason I get lynched day one more often than most people in relation to on late days.

[Espeonage]

@Pjo: Because it's a random vote. I'd rather start discussion on a discrepancy from the norm over voting over nothing.
@Project: I'm interested in an articulation of your Tammy read.

[Espeonage]

Why empire? As far as I can tell he hasn't really done anything particularly indicative either way. He's been slipping under my radar.

[Espeonage]

Also, why is Cabd voting for you if not for the early vote?

I am amused and want to hear the answer to this, though!

I know the vote caught your eye. But I think what drew your vote is what was missing from my posts between my vote and yours.

^"I know it looked scummy to you"

meh. that would make him inno child.

Still, I'm going to sheep Empire.

VOTE: espeonage

"I'm not scummy looking at all"

I think that's more for effect, rather than indicative of anything.

[Espeonage]

On that note, Dr.Cirno said he'd post 14 hours ago, 20 hours ago.

[Espeonage]

@Chamber: When you're next in here. How are you feeling about Pjo at the moment now that you are along in voting him.

@Mindgamer: I've been pretty dismissive of my wagon thus far, however I'm going to have to kindly state that "Not making much of a stance" really isn't going to cut it for a wagon flop. Not taking in to account that I feel that I have been pretty clear who I think the likely scum are. This hasn't gone very far to dismiss my faith in your wagon.

[Espeonage]

LaLurkers has always been a decent day one strat for wagons, moreso the earlier it is. And action is severely down this game.

[Espeonage]

Does someone want to explain Empire to me. He's been completely off my radar, much like ProjectMatt, so I'm not sure where the reads are coming from.

Cephrir strikes me as off so far. Not quite scummy but IGMEOY.

Llama, thoughts on mindgamer?

[Espeonage]

Because tbh, I can't quite articulate or understand what, I'm just leaving myself a little note so I know to come back to you later on.

[Espeonage]

Unvote

I'll come up with a better spot for this vote later, it really didn't serve its purpose where it was.

Tammy is still my biggest read, empire pings me as pretty terrible for not mentioning at all where his scum reads lie. However I'm not seeing this supposed empire/tammy thing that Llama seems to.

I get the impression that one of Cabd and ffery is scum, but I really can't point out which one. One is stringing along another to stay away from having to engage with the rest of the game, just not sure which way that goes. And I want this isolated banter to end. So if you are the townie in that couple, please make an active attempt to get into the gritty of todays play. If only so we can get a good read on the other.

Outside of them, I'm not getting anything bigger than little pings from various people for isolated reasons. Still not happy with Mindgamer, I'm hoping ABR gets more interested closer to deadline otherwise he's pinging me, I have no read whatsoever on Project thus far. Everyone else is sitting in my town to townish pool.

[Espeonage]

ffery is still talking about cabd

Vote: ffery

[Espeonage]

@ffery: I have no qualms with you responding to the players you are. I do have a problem with you not engaging with the rest of the players in the game. I make quite clear that I was ready to try and sus out yourself and cabd, and considering he at least shows signs of helping, you've been very narrow in your approach, which is a very bad town strategy for day one as you both make it more difficult for yourself to find real scum, but you also make yourself harder to read.

After that post of mine, you made yet another post about nothing but cabd, and for that progression of events, I voted you.

[Espeonage]

I didn't ask you anything, I just posted that I was unhappy with the exchange and felt it was one of you as scum leading around the other for their own benefit. Upon reflection and your post, I came to the conclusion that the best bet for scum in the pair was you as cabd has been tending to stray to make responses and you have been much more focused.

Pedit: Yeah that one.

No. But you are still narrowly staying in a pool of people up until people have now put you under fire for it.

[Espeonage]

Can we leave meta reads out of the game until we actually have a decent amount of posts to take something from. Each game is different and town meta is emulatable. They are not reliable as a case or a defense. You can use it to back something you find scummy up, but don't use it as a base.

[Espeonage]

Tammy is still my biggest read.

The force of that biggest read is missing something pretty inportant.

I know, there's more day left to get to lynching you after this clusterfuck meta-crisis is dealt with.

[Espeonage]

ffery is still talking about cabd

Vote: ffery

This is strange reasoning for a vote.

It was a follow up to a position I had already made.

[Espeonage]

Cause I definitely recall something different.

Go back and read the first few posts in my iso. And the town meta you are thinking of. I can link you to scum games where I've done that too. Actually, tbh, I usually lurk more in scum games, I get scared to post because I don't want to incriminate myself.

[Espeonage]

@BB, what makes you think Tammy is town? I haven't been at all happy with her play here.
@Tammy, I took it under advisement and didn't use it as an intensive scumhunting tool.

We've been over this.

@Cabd, turnaround comes from?

[Espeonage]

I was taking it under advisement. I was never going to base a read on it. As I said in my post, it's fine to use it to back up a case, but as a core reason, that's not so acceptable.

[Espeonage]

If you actually look at what my stance was at that time I was already calling you scum and was wondering if it was part of one alignment or the other to either back up the read or negate it. It did neither so whoop-de-doo.

And you're right, you do need to have another look at the thread.

[Espeonage]

I wanted to know if I might be incorrect about it possibly being a good scumtell for you, and if so how strong. I got an inconclusive answer and so stayed with seeing it as scummy as I had. Which is exactly what I just said I did. Thanks for quoting me to prove my point.

I explicitly said that I am fine with it being use in conjunction with other stuff. But that using it as a sole reason is terrible.

So yes, I don't like meta reads.

I'm honestly questioning if you are doing this for your own enjoyment.

[Espeonage]

Tammy is trying so hard to squeeze something out of nothing.

About time I did this.

Unvote, Vote: Tammy

[Espeonage]

Who has meta on Tammy they can give me? Is she always like this or is it indicative of an alignment, because it comes across as sassy, which usually would point to a mindset, but I have no idea how to work out what that mindset might be.

@CabD, If your vote was elsewhere, which wagon would you most support and why?

Is sarcasm and sass part of her scum game or town game and not the other?

No, you weren't. You said it was indicative of a mindset and you didn't know what mindset. You wanted meta to determine whether or not I was sarcastic as which alignment, and then became satisfied with a half answer from someone who really doesn't know my meta.

So, yeah your "I don't like meta" thing is hogwash.

I'm sorry Tammy but WHO CARES
Why do people make these arguments like "you said you don't like meta but you found this particular meta useful?"
Humans can say inconsistent things while meaning every sentence.

I CARE.

If it speaks to me about his mindset and whether or not his bullshit suspicion on me is crackpot genuine or scum making up a reason to suspect someone I'm going to question it. From here it looks like he's just randomly throwing out crap to see if it sticks. I can't really follow his thought process and he's doing more sideline sniping than anything else, which looks to me like commenting on stuff to look busy but not dig into alignments.

I wasn't even voting you until last page because I am aware that your lynch might be difficult. So I don't know where you're getting this idea that I've been slinging stuff at you until something stuck. I've been happy to sit and watch you continue the same line of enquiry for over a week. And every time you bring up the exact same thing, I just want to lynch you more and more. I especially hated that you felt it appropriate to post gifs all over the place either, did I sling that at you? No. Because unlike my actual suspicion of you, that's probably irrelevant to your alignment. I'm perfectly capable of determining good voting reasons from terrible ones, and I'm pretty damn sure, when I say I've got you pegged as scum.

If I can't get you lynched today, so be it, but I will keep coming back until something changes my mind.

[Espeonage]

Oh, ETL is here, things ought to get interesting. ETL you keeping the claim of your slot? Poisoner is a pretty cool role, what with the wine theme and all, but I'm not sure how town it is.

Wut?
Like wut?
I thought I must have missed something so I checked CTD's iso, and not one mention of Poisoner. So wtf?

[Espeonage]

No, no we haven't. I've never seen that before. Sorry for ruining it. :/

I assumed everyone started replacing in with reading their previous player's iso.

[Espeonage]

VLA on weekend for Who Party.

[Espeonage]

Lol, I have a 100% win rate as Jester on day 1.

I'm back, I've been following through my VLA when peeps have been doing stuff but I'm going to go back through and post my thoughts. I did see the meta argument, and I can't really compete against that conclusion, this is different to how I played that game, then again that's only one game. I don't believe I'm that clear cut but ok.

Cabd, as someone that is reading Tammy as really scummy, I find your faith in her seriously disturbing. You and ffery will bring some really cool stuff I feel, I don't think there's enough day to do that today though.

But yeah, Imma go read back.

[Espeonage]

And I think people are bandwagoning a read on Pjovek as Town - he spammed and now he's lurking and I hate that because it's unnatural.

I was reading an old game of mine a couple of weeks ago where a VI I really liked playing with was mafia and he played the game like a harp and only really got killed because PoE for Cult Recruiter. And frankly, I'm terrible at reading VIs I've realised. I think it's a psychological thing because I used to think I was a terrible player (I was).

But yeah this post rings of truth, and it'd be pretty cool if we come back to this tomorrow or I guess today is chamber wants to get off his bum.

[Espeonage]

Also, in addition to the first post I made.

Cabd's gambits. I'm not sure how they usually go down, but everything here seems really half arsed. A curve ball is a curve ball but the drunkposting seems really really terrible as a gambit. I'm all for getting drunk and posting because it changes your perception of posts. That's fine, it's why I always used to pull an all nighter for Marathon days because I play better when tired. But that was just poor form last night.

[Espeonage]

Also TSO and Katsuki is like the new ffery and Cabd, but I'm not as sure if it's scum/town as I am with ffery, it seems more tunneling, which I'll live with at this point as they seem less cryptic and decietful than Cabd and ffery.

PEDIT: K, I'll go squizz it later.

[Espeonage]

@Cabd: Two things.
1. Can't find the gambits list.
2. I've got a gambit for you. Saying your game revolves around meta, then saying you pride your scum game to make people think that you have distinctive factors that make up your good scum play only to not do any of it as scum because don't want to be meta read correctly.

[Espeonage]

Conversely, I don't feel Tammy and Cabd would be scum together, it doesn't add up with Tammy's response to the whole meta thing from ages ago.

[Espeonage]

Unvote, vote TSO

Why would I be scum? I'm not really too focused on this game right now, I need more kills to determine who is scum.

Ok, preliminary reads, outside of self preservation motivations?

[Espeonage]

Cabd, as someone that is reading Tammy as really scummy, I find your faith in her seriously disturbing. You and ffery will bring some really cool stuff I feel, I don't think there's enough day to do that today though.

There's almost a week still on the clock.

???

[Espeonage]

I appear to have missed that ffery.

Eh I guess we can deal with it today. I'd rather lynch Tammy that go after cabd. And your wagon dissolved.

[Espeonage]

Did you read my recent posts this page, I'm feeling worse about cabd as of the last ten or so pages?

[Espeonage]

I used FoSes? Sheeeet. I'm pretty sure I can pull up times where I've lynched people for using that term. I might have to properly read that game again.

As for the bolded, simple typo in the first part. And it's hard to tell, I really don't see you both as scum. I wouldn't say you've gone down, more that others have come up in scumminess.

[Espeonage]

Fair nuff, that sounds more like something I'd do. I used to live by say it no matter what if you think it as town. But then I used to either get lynched really early or got kept around forever because my reads were terrible.

[Espeonage]

I'm not quite sure how you missed Tammy and I having a pretty intense discussion on our mutual scumreads of each other.

As for not knowing what I'm on about with you and Cabd, I've already been quite clear that I feel there is a scum in the two of you because the interactions show signs of a scumperson keeping a townperson engaged with them alone at the expense of being able to concentrate on the game at large.

I don't particularly like gambits too much, outside of fakeclaims, everything else I feel is just asking for a town to fall in and get mislynched as a result. But as I also said, I don't have experience with the type gambits the players in this game use.

[Espeonage]

@ffery I haven't given up, I just don't really see what else I can say, I presented my case, and at the very least llama found something in it that he agreed with and the way she defended by arguing an inaccuracy was well explained by llama as well, it appears he wants to focus on empire/nati rather than Tammy which makes me sad seeing as he seems to be seeing what I'm seeing.
I'm sure you'll allow me to take those arguments with a grain of salt about you and Cabd, it's not too outrageous to think that he could have a go at engaging you especially.

@Cabd: What are your thoughts on ffery's play thus far, from a standpoint of this game in isolation to her others?

@Llama: I'm interested as to why Tammy has moved from one of your top scumreads to one of your not lynching today reads. I'm willing to drop Tammy in lieu of a more likely lynch, but I was expecting yuo to jump on here with me at some point today.

@BB: Your point about not giving a fuck is part of why I'm townreading ABR, I feel that if he were scum he'd be putting more effort into setting up scumpartners as he seems to have a pretty good chance of being lynched day 1 from his recent history. Then again, the way his votes are distributed does look like survival play, then again, given the context I'm not seeing it as alignment indicative.

I did actually somewhat dislike Nati, as he seemed shortly after replacing in to be more interested in putting in 2c wherever he saw fit, however as he just replaced in that's understandable.

BB's seems to be giving a concerted effort, which was my main reservation with Mindgamer. So I'm taking him off my radar for the moment.
I actually like project's case on me even though I disagree with the solely meta argument, because it presents a turnaround for someone that was lurking which is uncommon for scum to stick their head out at this point in the day, I feel were he scum, he would have stayed more conservative, unless of course ABR is a scumbuddy, but that's simply conjecture until one of them flips. So not lynching here either.

Now, I've had a feeling growing on me that Kat felt she could ride bard's towncard hard and figured she could just go about her business and stay under the radar as a result. However, were I handed an obv town slot I would instantly start pressing everywhere to try and get a following and pressure to try and nab a bit of momentum to get some reads off. It's also interesting that given the high meta style of players in this game that Bard left after he got found out, I'm not sure if this is applicable because we didn't really get much of an indication of why he left, but it's still there. So something about Kat's play since her replacement doesn't seem right for me, so I'm going to put her in my scum pool replacing BB's spot.

[Espeonage]

@Cabd: What are your thoughts on ffery's play thus far, from a standpoint of this game in isolation to her others?

It's off in a defensive sort of way that would worry me if it were not her; but being that i'm like nothing but metaman; I compare it to fatalism she's displayed in the past and worry less about it. If you're asking me specifically, it's still not a townread moreso than up to null from a scumread.

What are your thoughts on people deliberately manipulating their meta because of your reputation? I'd like to be able to take your reads into consideration but I just can't put enough faith into that style of reading people.

ffery obviously knows you well, wouldn't that mean then, were she scum, she'd deliberately display the town meta you have on her, or try to play completely differently. There's just too much doubleguessing in meta reading.

[Espeonage]

I'm not that reputable such that people go out of their way to metadodge me, especially in a game this large. EVen if they do, old habbits die hard.

As for ffery, I can tell when she's going out of her way to metadodge or fool me now.

Noted, but again, grain of salt.

[Espeonage]

Why does everyone always think I'm someone's alt? No I'm not an alt. But there were people at one point that all pretended to be alts of me if that counts.

[Espeonage]

Correct.

[Espeonage]

I used FoSes? Sheeeet. I'm pretty sure I can pull up times where I've lynched people for using that term. I might have to properly read that game again.

As for the bolded, simple typo in the first part. And it's hard to tell, I really don't see you both as scum. I wouldn't say you've gone down, more that others have come up in scumminess.

... you might have to properly read your past game again???

Ya, what's wrong with that? I read back on my favorites on a semi regular basis. It's a shame though, my favorite game is on the old forum.

[Espeonage]

They aren't troll votes as far as I can tell. They're survival votes.

[Espeonage]

Now, I've had a feeling growing on me that Kat felt she could ride bard's towncard hard and figured she could just go about her business and stay under the radar as a result. However, were I handed an obv town slot I would instantly start pressing everywhere to try and get a following and pressure to try and nab a bit of momentum to get some reads off. I.

Why aren't you doing that anyway?

I likely will.

[Espeonage]

I've often been told to stop refusing to join wagons because I want to lynch people no one else does. Which in turn gets me lynched because I haven't been helping town.

[Espeonage]

I'm going to assume that this is an intent to lynch me llama?

I'm a Voyeur, which I've never seen before, so I wanted to play alot 'better' this game, so I wouldn't be put under as much pressure as usual this game so I wouldn't have to claim it.

In what way? He hadn't posted much so I didn't see him as having done anything noteworthy. Which means I generally don't read them as I don't have much of a base to work from. Hence slipping under my radar.

[Espeonage]

I know it's only L-2, but Llama seems to have some sway.

And

Unvote, Vote: Katsuki

[Espeonage]

:/ Myko.

[Espeonage]

Myko I'm voting Kat.

[Espeonage]

No it's not.

If your townplay was ever 7/10 at all, you would know how to deal with it. But empirical evidence from this game suggests it never was anyways.

This is only day 1.

[Espeonage]

Nati, you think llama-espi-??? team?

Yeah that was a classic "setup your scum partner for slightly off the border claim".

This is a pretty bad line to take without the hindsight of flips.

@ABR, interested in your read on me seeing as you offered. I don't think you're scum and avoiding my lynch would be nice, so I feel working together on this would be helpful, no?

[Espeonage]

Nati, you think llama-espi-??? team?

Yeah that was a classic "setup your scum partner for slightly off the border claim".

This is a pretty bad line to take without the hindsight of flips.

@ABR, interested in your read on me seeing as you offered. I don't think you're scum and avoiding my lynch would be nice, so I feel working together on this would be helpful, no?

What leads you to think he isn't scum?

Because he isn't. His hopping reads to me like "I want to survive" and I feel his willingness to help later is genuine not stall-y. Of course this hinges on later contribution, but there are a few players shooting nothing but one liners and I feel ABR is the one that's come under fire because he's the easiest target because usually scum are the ones wanting so badly to survive. I guess it's gut that I'm starting to flesh out. His recent posts are quite good.

[Espeonage]

I expanded, don't give me that.

[Espeonage]

Alright, your prerogative.

Do you agree that Kat's play doesn't add up with how her previous player was read, or do you have more you'd like to bring to the table?

[Espeonage]

Hmm? What am I engaging with?

Also, ABR, join meee, we eat cupcakes.

Is Ceph scum because he did what BB would do as scum, while BB isn't scum because he did what Chamber would do as scum? That seems hella weird.

[Espeonage]

Open question. That is my understanding of the case on him atm.

[Espeonage]

Right, going to go though Ceph's stuff. See if I can pick anything up.

Being day 2, not much will likely come form it, but I'd be interested to look at Ceph's voting habits, given we had an 'easy' wagon go down on day 1. I doubt he was alone on the wagon.

[Espeonage]

The biggest thing I'm getting at a skim is constant light attacking on Pjo without ever looking at it seriously as a lynch and then turns around and flat out says not going to support a policy lynch. He did flop around on myself and ABR, jumping at tipping point onto ABR after pressure dropped off me. There isn't really anything that instantly jumps out at me, seems like a pretty simple appear to be halfway up the town endorsed lynch.

And that's about all I got, I never scumhunt like this tbh.

[Espeonage]

Do I claim?

[Espeonage]

And I'm happy to go with Guyett, Tammy was terrible yesterday.

[Espeonage]

As in my full results. Because I thought it was better so I could confirm claims later.

[Espeonage]

That's what the wiki page tells me anyway.

[Espeonage]

I'm thinking we have either got a SK or a vig..

Yes clearly.

I doubt we have an SK. More than likely we have a vig and a protective role. Ceph's role is the non-normal in this game, we should not have any extreme surprises.

Guyett, do you have anything better to add? Any thoughts about your read through?

Well lots of people all know who the confirmed town is, so long as we have a vig and not an SK.

[Espeonage]

Ok reading through, no reason to beat around the bush Llama isn't scum.

[Espeonage]

Ok reading through, no reason to beat around the bush Llama isn't scum.

Is this a claim?

Yes, but I'm not going to claim how I know that, because there's more than one set of results which would tell me this.

[Espeonage]

@ETL, you evidently missed the two softclaims yesterday.

[Espeonage]

Also

Vote: Guyett

I wanted this since yesterday. Happy to vote for Pjo as well after my read of Ceph's iso. It was textbook distancing.

PEDIT: It was Silver Bard and then I'm pretty sire Kat mentioned it at some point too. Then again they were soft claims.

[Espeonage]

You had Protection and Kill and Investigate.

[Espeonage]

Hes lying about what happened to llamarble.

My results are my results. I've given them.

[Espeonage]

I did something to llamarble not on that list. I'm reasonably confident that I wasn't blocked. I'd rather not say more.

I don't even know what kind of role barring recruiter could have hit him that wouldn't be in that group. Do we have another secret cult?

[Espeonage]

Jailkeeper traditionally comes under Protected. NEXT

[Espeonage]

K I'll send a PM off now.

[Espeonage]

I don't know. I don't imagine it would show up for mine. But I might be wrong.

[Espeonage]

Mod confirmation it would appear as Protected.
Mod confirmation that I will appear as Investigation. Which sucks majorly, but I can understand the balance.

[Espeonage]

So Chamber, don't do something stupid right now and get us both killed.

[Espeonage]

Well then what word should I have seen, blocked?

You're saying we have a town roleblocker? What possible reasoning would you have to use that on Llama?

[Espeonage]

Smh, ok fine. I just don't want to get lynched by doing the right thing and claiming my results to clear someone.

[Espeonage]

I should clarify now that its still TECHNICALLY possible that I got blocked. I just find it to be highly unlikely, and believe that everyone else will too should he turn up town and I explain myself.

It's pretty clear that if I am scum I'm going to be screwing up fairly regularly. I don't see why it's a good idea to lynch me over a not entirely sure if it counts. I have what I saw.

[Espeonage]

This is really stupid to be losing two power roles over.

[Espeonage]

This is really stupid to be losing two power roles over.

The last bastion of caught scum.

tee hee hee

The last ditch effort of frustrated town.

[Espeonage]

Man I misread that yes in the pm. Well then yeah I guess another investigation must have hit him.

[Espeonage]

Yeah, which is just the icing on the cake ain't it. Going to say, don't lynch chamber over this. We've obviously got some sort of hyper roles setup, so it's quite likely he's telling the truth.

[Espeonage]

Man I misread that yes in the pm. Well then yeah I guess another investigation must have hit him.

Really now?

Using this stuff feels dirty. Just use me counter claiming his result with a <1% chance of error.

Ok so I'm guessing you have a block of some kind. It's not even remotely weird for scum to have that too. It actually helps reign in power a lot to reign in a potentially power heavy game on both sides. So I don't really think you're giving a big enough chance there.

[Espeonage]

I know. And?

[Espeonage]

And I'm saying that it's entirely unsubstantiated that the chance would be that low.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Espe

[Espeonage]

Nah I'm lynched.

[Espeonage]

Tammy was scum.

This was won on day 1 as far as my vote was concerned. :/

Wasn't even in the plan for every single one of my scummates to vote me. I kinda just rolled with it and went hard after Tammy because I knew she would be the hardest to get support behind which meant I could get away with not actually pressuring for her lynch properly.

[Espeonage]

And yeah, I had so much fun on day 1. Probably the most enjoyable single day of mafia I've ever had.

[Espeonage]

This was embarrassingly bad of me. Good job carrying it off, though I don't know why you insisted on bussing each other so much.

What's funny was I had every intention when the game started to defend espeonage. But then things played out the way they did and I tried to do what town me would have. Empire was always going to be tricky because of how we interact with each other and read each other when town though.

Sometimes it's just fun to bus/have arguments with your scum buds though :p

Last line, so much truth. I thoroughly enjoyed everything we did day 1.