Song Contest U-Pick - GAME OVER

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Hi guys.

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Hi guys.

Lame. You left out my replace-in modifier.

Catching up!

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Yesssssss you guys replaced a townslot.

Yes, we're aware.

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Who is that last quote from? Also, Nacho or Mollie?

It amazes me anyone can even get those two confused.

Oh boy MtC.

Anyways, awaiting their post.

You'll be waiting another day. She's about to pass out probs.

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Hi mollie. You had better be town because I've officially sidelined ffery's ability to read nacho. SO we can dance instead if for some reason you haven't obvtowned my predecessor.

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Hi guys.

Lame. You left out my replace-in modifier.

Catching up!

If you don't include ns is obvtown and generic is town in said catchup post I'm voting you js

I'm up to about page 8! This thread is an interesting anthropological study of meta evolution.

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Number of votes: 3
ALL THESE PEOPLE
SO GENUINE, SO TRUE

----

@Mastin:

Run me through the thought process because this:

Why the deflection Generic? You're perfectly aware that you made a number of posts of a "woe is me I'm playing terrible this game" nature, which then got followed up by the "but as scum I'm a totally awesome player, gyped out of awards you guize. ie. not-scum this game" style of post 244.

This is all nice and WIFOMy, but why bring it up in the first place? To me it felt like you were dangling some mislynch bait for scum, hence someone like Spyrex - who I haven't had a firm read on yet - to come along and makes an opportunistic push for you using said contradictions as some sort of clear confirmation of your scumminess I don't expect to see a blasé deflection. I predicted a "caught you scum! trapped in my web, my devious mislynch bait for the opportunistic scum that you are *votes*" or something along those lines.

Your response is not only underwhelming, it just gives an attention-seeking slant on your previous posts. What was the point of them?

Generic could be scum after all.

Ooozes town. Regardless of what happens from the wagon because this is very much a cause-effect post.

Also, Generic is town, this wagon is bad. Especially MoS' bit about "being town-aligned but not pro-town VOTE'. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT? Did/is Generic playing terribly? A bit, especially early on. I think scumGeneric however would continue to push his terrible early play to appear 'consistent'.

His attempt to try to play better is the reason I backed off

all those pages ago and is why I'm reading him as town now. Playing terrible does not mean scum.

He wont do it because its tooo hard maybe you can:

Where does the bolded live. Where.

Because playing terrible doesn't mean scum. Holding up terrible as a reason you're not scum is playing like scum.

If I'm wrong, awesome show me plz

You broke my heart in On A Boat. I thought we were going to be in thread masons and solve that game in jig time, with style and elan.

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I may catch up completely tonight, but it will be in a gorgeous, amber haze of bourbon if I do.

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Hi mollie. You had better be town because I've officially sidelined ffery's ability to read nacho. SO we can dance instead if for some reason you haven't obvtowned my predecessor.

No, I have to pull my self up, dust myself off, and try again.

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I am seriously going to cry if nachomollie and cabd ffery are scum

I will have none of your blandishments. None.

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Nacho are you here? Is that Mollie?

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So generic is town as fuck and I'm sitting here with ffery wondering what the hell the wagon on him is so strong for.

Shades why were you guys voting for lynchbait; and why is your vote idle now?

UNVOTE: for now

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caled is lynchbait.

Your vote is idle, and you know it.

That's a curious emote choice, Mollie.

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I lean town on prana

So you'll have to forgive me skepticism about the validity of your vote thar.

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I lean town on prana

So you'll have to forgive me skepticism about the validity of your vote thar.

nacho leaned town on prana

then you subbed in

you look scummy cabd

You really think scum-me would pull the same shit twice on the same person after discussing it with them? Forgive me for yawning.

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And why are you addressing me and not ffery as well?

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I lean town on prana

So you'll have to forgive me skepticism about the validity of your vote thar.

nacho leaned town on prana

then you subbed in

you look scummy cabd

Cabd, I know you have that post of Sixty-Vi's in notepad somewhere.

Mollie, this is going slow because I'm still recuperating from a bad week. I'm up to page 16 in my catch up. I was planning to do a complete catch up and post my notes after Cabd reviews them. But, I feel like this is leaving me idle in the new stuff going on.

So, I'm putting it to you. Would you rather hear what I'm thinking about the game as of 15 pages ago now? Or would you rather me do incremental brain dumps, recognizing that my thoughts are going to change as I get further into the thread?

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Cabd, I know you have that post of Sixty-Vi's in notepad somewhere.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5193733

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We can.

I've posted to you twice now. Are you ignoring me?

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Where I'm at right now is that as of page 15, I mostly agree with mastin-clone's post 317 reads. I don't know if you can mentally roll back to that point or not, and I don't know yet what has changed in the game state.

Probably the biggest ohshit for me so far though was seeing that you voted caled. Her first post looked like a towntell to me. I'm not surprised to see that she got scumreads from some players for it, but I figured (and still hope) that I'd find somebody saying wait a fucking minute. So, maybe I'm going to find a post or two of hers further into the thread that explains why that apparently hasn't happened.

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Hi guys.

Lame. You left out my replace-in modifier.

Catching up!

If you don't include ns is obvtown and generic is town in said catchup post I'm voting you js

I am finally caught up and I agree with both of these!

How are you feeling about Spyrex?

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Where I'm at right now is that as of page 15, I mostly agree with mastin-clone's post 317 reads. I don't know if you can mentally roll back to that point or not, and I don't know yet what has changed in the game state.

Probably the biggest ohshit for me so far though was seeing that you voted caled. Her first post looked like a towntell to me. I'm not surprised to see that she got scumreads from some players for it, but I figured (and still hope) that I'd find somebody saying wait a fucking minute. So, maybe I'm going to find a post or two of hers further into the thread that explains why that apparently hasn't happened.

I thought you were on p16. where are you at now

O hai.

I'm now current with the thread.

I want to give cabd a shot at my catch up post so he can add stuff or tell me I'm full of shit.

What are your thoughts about the quoted post?

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notsci was in a neighborhood with SK-SpyreX in a recent game. He felt like something was off partway through day 1.

I want his thoughts in particular.

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145 - desptown
167 - I like POPP for town. This post is an example why. He nicely dissects a bit of fluff from generic.
171 - was liking t-bone earlier (before I lost my first catch-up post). But this post also feels pretty damn town.
179 - I would be really surprised if Nacho and I disagreed about Desp's 145 no matter what his alignment. But, going so far as to call it town as fuck is a warm fuzzy.
188 - Generic town?
191 - Agent Minnesota doesn't look all that town somehow, but I agree with this post. This is one of the big hot points in the early game and he's not ignoring it. Nor is he stirring the pot. And doing one or another about a town-on-town pile-on is I think what scum would want to do. So...if AM is scum, then maybe someone in that apparent pile-on isnt town?
199 - @Nati, I kinda feel like the stress was more about trying to mafia in Nacho's unique quotestripey way on an iPad.
205 - I was looking for this from Nacho at this point - a target. He goes after Pasch.
237 - I agree with Desp's *twitch*.
244 - this is town gen talking to town desp.
274 - ah ha! Now I understand the pasch case.
282 - I don't like that formerfish's first catch up seems to skate much of the heat in the game. Also don't like that this catch-up has nothing to say to/about 50.
300 - this post by caledfwitch feels like a townpost. I don't think she'd dis the flavor she inherited if it were attached to a scum role pm.
317 - hate the mastin schtick but I mostly agree with this list, at least the scum part. I might sort town/maybe town a little differently.
319 - I like this post a lot.
355 - very town looking defiance on Generic's part. Does he do this as scum?
363 - I loved this post. reason to lean town on pecanpie.
394 - read this and now I wonder what happened to the maenera wagon.
399 - I don't see it. Please explain.
457 - thank you desp. can we be in thread masons?
477 - fish read in particular is bad. pasch vote a bus?
500 - Spyrex nailed how I've felt about some of fish's posts here. read them once and want to lynch him, read them again and think he's town. This post really, really settles my worries a little because this time there's nothing in the thread to hint at what I would be thinking, so I know this wasn't tailored for me. /on a boat butthurt. On the other hand, I don't like the generic vote.
541 - mollie's reads list wasn't bad. agreed with much of it. glad someone else is weirded out by hiriki.


Tomorrow we're going to hash out a reads list and then we want to sit down with our town reads and PoE some shit.

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You will find there will be players in this game desperate for me to be lynched because they firmly believe killing someone they suspect is town but don't like the attitude of is a preference to lynching a potential scum player who appears to be contributing.

I would say that's playing against their win condition so they have to justify it by tacking on a mild suspicion of me. Some have been honest and said they are voting me for not being pro town and not because they think I'm scum.

I have lost faith in a portion of the player pool so am happy to watch from the sidelines.

And much like with spy party it's win win for me. I either get the win regardless with town or several of you dance around like headless chickens without a fucking clue and I don't have to suffer being in the middle of it.

So where were we ? Killing 'it' with fire was it? Can we get a move on...

mebbe you should try playing less selfishly and realise you are on a team and that you don't know who your teammates are but you try to help them out anyways cos THAT IS SUPPORTIVE OF YOUR WC NOT THE NONSENSICAL WHINING THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING

When you see Nacho around please tell him that ffery wants to talk to him about his caled read. Given it was Nacho who thought her lynch is not a bad idea, it's really Nacho that I have the beef with.

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Tomorrow we're going to hash out a reads list and then we want to sit down with our town reads and PoE some shit.

Indeed, those thoughts were messy and contradict themselves in several spots.

So this absent-minded taunting by Generic has left essentially all his posts today mostly bereft of reads or scumhunting. I'm flicking through some of his town meta and seeing more reads than here. That's not solid evidence, but on the basis of his play in this game alone can we kill this with fire yet?

That usually happens when I go through a thread and think about the game post by post. My opinions about players or slots changes with more data. That's how I would have experienced the thread if I had been in the game from the start, Except I would have had the opportunity to ask about some posts while they were still fresh and relevant.

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That bit about spyrex is kinda an exaggeration because what really irked me was a neighborhood and other people epressing suspicions (I'm pretty sure ffery was the one who brought that up ingame actually). But, I feel like he did a really good job of shucking suspicion in that game (inb4 BoP scumread) but no, I'm feeling a similarity to that game. Can't put my finger on it, but meh

I actually voted him on day 1 for a little while because I felt like he targeted me for a ton of buddying and agreement with nearly every stance I took, kept talking about all the stuff we needed to sort on day 1, but wasn't sorting. Then I backed off when CDB brought up his scumhunting rep and kuribo's flowchart. Worst mistake of the game probably. That and dismissing your concerns as neighborhood paranoia.

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What do you think about him this game?

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Yeah. Though in On a Boat he didn't actually PL the miller. He made noises about it being the default lynch of the day early on, but he had his vote on Empire at the end of day 1.

That was genuine scumhunting IMO, which doesn't surprise me in an SK, though it can sure focus scum attention.

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When you see Nacho around please tell him that ffery wants to talk to him about his caled read. Given it was Nacho who thought her lynch is not a bad idea, it's really Nacho that I have the beef with.

pretty sure your beef is with me

This was your post?

Actually you know what

VOTE: caled

This wagon is happening.

this really isn't a bad wagon

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That does put a different light on things.

beef retracted, though I think that vote was still pretty dumb.

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O Hai Nacho.

I'm about ready to post a reads list, so right you are.

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Town

1. Parama*
7. Desperado - strongest town read
12. Garruk Relentless (Natirasha + MafiaSSK hybrid) - Totally pissy-town Nati.
17. Generic - utterly town. Not sure he's going to be good to build consensus with today, though I liked that he jumped in with an objective-looking opinion on Spyrex. Also not sure a townbloc with him and pecanpie in it would be very functional.
13. pieceofpecanpie - town as fuck. Why didn't you post this way in Paradox Prime? See generic for townbloc concerns
16. M45t1n* - shallower thinker than real-mastin, but mostly agree with his reads.
18. SpyreX - some of his posts give me On a Boat flashbacks, but overall he seems more forthcoming than on day 1 of that game and definitely more than later in that game. I want notsci's opinion, though
20. notscience - his concerns about lack of consensus and attempts to get players to give him input on players he'd townbloc with is so fucking town.

Above or Below? Not sure

10. Formerfish* - Post phrasing sometimes puts me off, but on reread I usually think town.
5. 50 Shades of Purple (Nachomamma8 + pirate mollie hydra) - Moved up from maybe town based on the caled lynch appetite belonging to Mollie, not Nacho.

Maybe Town

3. T-Bone* - liked his early posts, but read would be stale as fuck if I had been in the game from the start.
4. Mastermind of Sin - some posts made me want to lynch him. some weren't so bad.
6. caledfwitch**

InflatablePie

- InflatablePie seemed town when he posted, especially early on. caled's first post looked like a towntell to me. Some of her later posts are pretty cheeky and I feel like this is a movement that her meta could predict. She's becoming looser and more confident with new games, but is always a low content player.
9. Agent Minnesota (PhDScar + Shaboostein hydra) ** - maybe belongs in the Not so Town group.

Not so Town

8. Paschendale - Nacho's 274 is a good summary of why.
11. Hiraki

Sajin

- need to re-ISO, but not liking him at all atm
14. evilpacman18* - mostly due to long periods with no posting. The out-of-synchness of some of his opinions could be due to periods of inactivity but I don't like some of his stances.
15. Porkens - lots of scumposts
19. Micc

Maenara

- maenera looked terrible for the most part. Micc hasn't done much since replacing in. I want to understand why this wagon dissipated.

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She seems to be basing that read mostly on Cabd from what she's said in-thread.

If she's scumreading me personally this is going to get ugly. I'm pretty raw-nerved this weekend.

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Maybe town? Mollie looks pretty fucking town ATM.

I'm feeling cautious about hydrae involving you these days. Cabd's revoked my license to read you after the touhou game.

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Why did you freak out when you thought I voted caled?

Because I got a pretty strong townfeel off her first post and I would have expected town-you to do the same based on what I've seen in similar situations.

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Cabd sucks at reading me more.
But this isn't a read on me, this is a read on mollie. You're still good at reading her, right?

She turned a town read on our predecessor on its head based on one post from us from what I saw.

That set off an alarm or two.

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Why is caled so low on your list, that is.

her cutesy reads list. And lack of content so far. It's not nearly enough to push her into my townbloc.

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Cabd sucks at reading me more.
But this isn't a read on me, this is a read on mollie. You're still good at reading her, right?

She turned a town read on our predecessor on its head based on one post from us from what I saw.

That set off an alarm or two.

I can't remember a time when mollie didn't read me as scum based on one post. I think that this scumread was cabd saying you passing out at an alarmingly early time.

I think Mollie knows why I've been running on empty the last few days. She can fill you in.

I don't think it's ever taken me more than 2-3 hours to do a first read through a 25 page game thread before. I usually can't sleep until I get an initial read done.

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I don't like you downplaying your ability to read me, either. You know exactly where you went wrong in touhou.

Exactly where I went wrong is exactly where you went right. I have no doubt that I have other equally lethal blind spots. And you know that I read you by interacting with you. So, thanks for showing up!

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You better know where you went wrong in touhou because then mollie and Tammy will be the only people with meta authority reading me and their egos will swell like crazy

Hindsight is 20-20. Meta isn't enough. Neither is tone. I'm working to incorporate some of what I think Tammy does in reading you.

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The only read I liked was generic's.

Also this. I would expect you to have more confidence in some of the lynchbait options being town.

I tend to be influenced by thread consensus in the first pass unless something really jumps out. Before we decide where to vote, we'll be going through some ISOs.

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You're doing your true facts thing again.

Nacho, I debated doing more research before putting out a reads list, but I want feedback and to figure out what people who lived the thread got from that experience. It'll help in refining.

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The only read I liked was generic's.

Also this. I would expect you to have more confidence in some of the lynchbait options being town.

I tend to be influenced by thread consensus in the first pass unless something really jumps out. Before we decide where to vote, we'll be going through some ISOs.

Fair, but you're usually not that influenced.

Go back and look at that newbie game with Fear. My first list was totally biased by thread consensus with the exception of the consensus read on you.

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Cabd sucks at reading me more.
But this isn't a read on me, this is a read on mollie. You're still good at reading her, right?

She turned a town read on our predecessor on its head based on one post from us from what I saw.

That set off an alarm or two.

I can't remember a time when mollie didn't read me as scum based on one post. I think that this scumread was cabd saying you passing out at an alarmingly early time.

I think Mollie knows why I've been running on empty the last few days. She can fill you in.

I don't think it's ever taken me more than 2-3 hours to do a first read through a 25 page game thread before. I usually can't sleep until I get an initial read done.

Did you pass out at like 5pm?

I don't even remember. I was up to my eyeballs when Cabd replaced us in. I made 1 or 2 posts to say hi before I went down for the count.

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The only read I liked was generic's.

Also this. I would expect you to have more confidence in some of the lynchbait options being town.

I tend to be influenced by thread consensus in the first pass unless something really jumps out. Before we decide where to vote, we'll be going through some ISOs.

Fair, but you're usually not that influenced.

Go back and look at that newbie game with Fear. My first list was totally biased by thread consensus with the exception of the consensus read on you.

Different game state. The current game state isn't in a game solving point like that one was.

You're posting too fast for me and I'm going to wind up skipping posts again.

This game

should

be at a solving point. It would be nightfall already without all the replacements. It's 20 players, not 9. A hell of a lot more to sort. And in games this size you know I focus more on townhunting to start with.

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You're doing your true facts thing again.

Nacho, I debated doing more research before putting out a reads list, but I want feedback and to figure out what people who lived the thread got from that experience. It'll help in refining.

You also never denied that you were doing your true facts thing.

I do true facts all the time. This might be the game where you figure that out.

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Cabd wants to know if we can skip this and just quote GiF's micro at each other.

Dosn't work that way. And can't work that way this time.

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Should be but it isn't. I'm not mad at you for not having enough scumreads or something like that, I'm saying that your reads are convenient for scum and are lacking golden nuggets that I would expect you to pick up in the game.

I have plenty of scumreads. Too many. Some are surely wrong. And I may be missing some that should be in that pile.

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You're doing your true facts thing again.

Nacho, I debated doing more research before putting out a reads list, but I want feedback and to figure out what people who lived the thread got from that experience. It'll help in refining.

You also never denied that you were doing your true facts thing.

I do true facts all the time. This might be the game where you figure that out.

Yes, you do. But it's generally not all you do.
It feels like that's what you're doing here.

Then this is not the way to sort me this time, because you're getting a bad answer.

There's enough data in the thread that omigod scum isn't that much of a concern. And your questions are valid. The conclusion you're forming is wrong, though.

I"m really not sure how to fix that. There's a third party this time, and the fact that Mollie started this one makes a huge change in my level of defensiveness. It's a lot more like walking dead than like that micro, despite you being the interrogator.

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Mollie started it, but it's currently just you and I.

Except for the sense of popcorn and theater.

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I probably would have started attacking you if I made it into the thread first, to be honest.

I wish you had.

So, I'm trying to think how to proceed from here. It's not a micro. I'm not going to freak out if you don't figure us out, though I'll be angry and wary about you doing this as scum sometime down the road. And I'm not in a mental place where I can or want to disarm to the degree I did the last time you misread me.

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I'm at my birthday dinner man. (two days early but hey, weekends)

Ffery can quote this from morph for me. You two can do your dance or whatever.

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I probably would have started attacking you if I made it into the thread first, to be honest.

I wish you had.

So, I'm trying to think how to proceed from here. It's not a micro. I'm not going to freak out if you don't figure us out, though I'll be angry and wary about you doing this as scum sometime down the road. And I'm not in a mental place where I can or want to disarm to the degree I did the last time you misread me.

Do you want to stop dancing?

No. I want this resolved now so we can move on to the important shit.

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I'll try.

Which of my top town reads are bad?

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Is it Mastin inside that alt? The mannerisms are really close, just slightly overdone.

SpyreX feels less guarded than he did in the first game I played with him. But, I don't think I'm even close to being able to read him yet.

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So you agree that Garrack is town? I was surprised to see the reaction to Nati's usual rvs schtick.

Re SpyreX because I am going with what I am seeing and what my gut says. But I recognize that he's uncharted territory in a lot of ways. I have to start somewhere, and I at least know that I picked up off notes day 1 of the first game we played and should have listened to my gut more than to other players.

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And why is not Mastin so high up? Reads?

Yeah, very much reads. Every time I hit one of his reads lists it echoed where my head was at in that point of the thread.

I dunno. Maybe that points up similar problems with his reads lists.

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The lists aren't seriatim. I went down the sign up list and put players in the lists more or less in the order they're listed in the op. Except for the ones I wound up moving into the up or down list. That was a second pass.

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Scum-Nati has fooled the hell out of me in a couple of day 1s. But, I have more games with him since then. And some hydra discussion as well.

That's going to be an interesting hydra.

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Spyrex is town because gut is a weird read and doesn't help me all that much.i guess nitpicking on a read for being too strong is dumb, but it is an off note.

Well, he hasn't done any of the stuff that made me twitch in the other game. I didn't catch him focusing on someone else in this game quite the way he focused on me in the on the boat game. If had to pick a player whose early day 1 in this game resembled mine in that game, it would be Desp.

Gut is not entirely uninformed.

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His 601 read?

Didn't agree

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I thought the posts about t-bone being opportunistic in the early game were wrong. My only complaint is that he never picked back up activity after the holiday. But school is a thing.

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Piece: Yeah.

T-Bone: My socioeconomic background and education don’t preclude othering by peers.

I’m townreading Parama.

Notscience: I’m betting the songs figure in to the mechanics of the game. I have a feeling, and it’s just a feeling, that the songs being outed would more likely benefit town, so I’m leaning towards it being ok if we claimed flavor now. I have…suspicions about certain song-related mechanics based on what we have seen already….It should be interesting!

I don’t get scumread from Pasch challenge to NS.

I’m not liking piece’s chainsaw on Garruk and then backpeddling.

I think aggression early in day 1 is good play for both town and scum. So that’s null as far as I’m concerned. In my opinion/experience, it’s much less about who is being aggressive and much more about how the aggresse responds. One of Garruk’s heads (the first one…Nat?) isn’t responding townily. The other one is slightly better, but still relies on meta and a has bit of self-contradiction (in and between posts). I want more pressure to see if the egg really cracks.

I’m noting inflatablePie’s BWing.

SpyreX is as SpyreX does, oh lord.

Beast Within: Garruk Relentless

Vote: Garruk Relentless

P.S. We never had Hydras that I can remember back when I played before…I think I need to treat you guys as single entities.

I didn't like this post for a couple of reasons. He comments on not liking Pie's chainsaw on Garruk, which suggests Pie's the scum of the pair, and then votes Garruk

A verdict of scum has yet to be rendered, but the suspect is charged with the following crimes:

1. Wriggling like a fish in the first degree.
2. Meta defense AKA "You would trust me if you

knrew

Internet."
3. Why me = Fry me
4. Multiple counts of misdemeanor AtE
5. At least three counts of OMGUS

Now, I'm willing to settle out of court if the defense can show signs of rehabilitation. Otherwise, The state will proceed with indictment and seek the death penalty.

This post was one of the ones I had in mind when I mentioned the study of site meta over time. The list of reasons to vote Garruk are by "modern" standards kinda lazy and perfunctory. I made a mental note though, because for all I know they'd be perfunctory 5 years ago too.

Parama
Formerfish

Generic

Desperado
50 Shades of Purple
Hiraki
evilpacman18
SpyreX
M45t1n

Garruk Relentless
T-Bone
Agent Minnesota

notscience

Mastermind of Sin

caledfwitch

Paschendale

PranaDevil
pieceofpecanpie
Maenara

(

VIGPLZ

)

Old Business

Generic is my pet town this game, I think. I just shake my head at scum behaving this way. Don't overlook the underline, though.

PranaDevil hasn’t done much, and that’s a problem. There is much more scummy scum out there, but it's hard for me to let someone lurk out of pressure.

New Business

Maenara 357 (“Why did you read on me change nooooo”), 375 (“You can’t vote me, I’m voting YOU!!”) and 400 (“OMFGFOMFOGOFMGO”), and 477 (“IMA JUMPIN ON THE WAGON”) are scum posts.

MoS’s jump onto the Generic wagon wasn’t as bad as his other jump (although I’m not sure what the votecount at that point was).

I’m wavering on Garruk. Their apathy bothers me.

Like Desperado. 371 is right up my ally.

Pecan is so god damn scummy, jesus.

BERK?!…I don’t like Pasch in 409, that’s for sure. Oh, and that hop in 525 is also terrible.

Caledblah.

Correspondance

@50 Shades about 334:

I think it’s problematic because it’s a stream of consciousness, rather than a summary read. I don’t think it’s particularly scummy. And even if it is, there are scummier wagon hops out there.

@Mastin:

I’ll just say that what I liked about 316 was the tone of the last paragraph.

@Everyone:

Can we please return to the idea of claiming our songs? I'm actually really interested in doing that. I know some people have claimed outright, and I should make a list, but others have just hinted. Are people cool with a massongcliam or not?

This post, the main thing that jumped out at me was the pecanpie read. I had a really strong town read this time so the scumread here clanged.

I don't have a ton of time right now.

Unvote: Morphcat

Much more believably town than PranaDevil, so I'm fine right now.

Deciding between Micc and Pieceofpecanpie is hard, because while PoPP has been more scummy by volume, what little I've seen from the Maneara/Micc slot has simply reeked.

Vote: Pieceofpecanpie

But more evidence is more evidence.

For those of you critisizing and scumerizing my vig requests: I don't ask for Christmas presents that I could buy for myself.

When I read this post, the first thing I thought was "FoS scumbuddy, Vote town". Wasn't at all surprised to see your vote when I moved to the next page during our convo.

[morph the cat]

I generally like his posting, in fact. What are your problems with him, morph?

Who are you talking about here?

[morph the cat]

Why Desperado so town?

I liked his early posts a lot. He was right in the middle of some of the flashpoints, and I felt like he was defusing some of them, pulling people I thought were townies off each other and generally doing stuff to cut down on activities that scum usually like to see more of in games.

In every case where I disagreed with a post of his, when I went back looked at whatever it referenced more closely, I came away thinking he was more right than I was.

Petit: EPM

That's one player I really want data from now that he's said he can participate more. In a better mood, I would have probably put him in the next group up.

[morph the cat]

Why didn't fake Mastin read on pecanpie bother you?

Because for the bulk of what he's posted I can see where he's coming from or agree with him.

[morph the cat]

why isn't caled higher in the high town sphere since I was so dumb in voting them morph

The first group is what I consider my townbloc. Players I'd want to agree with or have consensus with. Caled hasn't put nearly enough into the game for me to care if she's voting with me.

[morph the cat]

Chain sawing means both are scum.

I thought chainsawing meant attacking a town player who's attacking your scumbuddy

They are weak reasons. They are very old meta weak reasons.

Ok. So, I'm right?

His reads are pretty close to where yours are, but no town read?

Nope.

FoS scumbuddy, vote town isn't something that excites me all that much.

What drew your vote?

[morph the cat]

why isn't caled higher in the high town sphere since I was so dumb in voting them morph

The first group is what I consider my townbloc. Players I'd want to agree with or have consensus with. Caled hasn't put nearly enough into the game for me to care if she's voting with me.

I didn't get that since you put caled in the mebbe category

I mean if you think I am being dumb with a vote on some1 who you think is town shouldn't the town person be in you town category regardless of a bloc and not mebbe

I'll work on my labeling.

I really didn't like the vote. And I really don't like her level of activity. But, her first post felt like a town tell that was being misinterpreted as a scum tell and I did NOT expect you to interpret it as a scum tell. It's the kind of town tell that you have helped me see more clearly, so thinking that was a vote you put down was a big flag to me.

The strength of my overall read several pages down the road is a different animal.

[morph the cat]

All hiraki has done is pseudo policy lynch, which I naturally don't really like.

You didn't like caled vote on us? Why?

It was OMGUSy feeling.

You know, chances are I would have just told you guys that you were being stupid with the caled vote if I had been around at the time mollie posted it. But, reading through after the fact and seeing the wagon look like it might become a thing focused my attention and made me think about situations where I've seen you go after easy mislynches. If I had realized the vote was put down by Mollie, those particular concerns wouldn't have applied in the first place and it would have mostly just been a note to see if the wagon still needed dismantling.

[morph the cat]

Oh sweet goat of the black woods with a thousand young, will you give me a break?

What I referred to was this:

I want to hear from desp before a proceed. Never been a fan of someone fighting someone else's arguement for them.

I read it as "I want to hear from Desp before I proceed [because I agree with him, thereby disagreeing with you, but I want to see what he has to say to you before I weigh in on this issue, because I have] Never been a fan of someone fighting someone else's argument for them."

See what I'm getting at, now?

And

excuse

me for jumping on the first the best case I see when I think something is legitimately scummy, and

I need a way to get into this game

. I mean, yes, I didn't mention Fish before - because, as you all just said, I haven't been bloody

saying

much of anything! Ooh, yeah, I jump onto a case without prior mention of a person - Yes, I have ten posts, including this one! Ooh, I jump onto a case right after it appears - Yes, because right now is when I need to get into the freaking game, and I've made it explicit that I'm still trying to find my feet, and there are a bunch of posters here that I legit can't read yet, so I'm working with what has been going on in the last couple of pages! Of course I am!

And seriously, reading into my fucking figure of speech, because I used a freaking "we"? Okay, let's break this down, grade school level English, and look at the sentence:

we're not all as comfortable with this many experienced folks yet.

If we want to make it entirely explicit what we're talking about, the full sentence would be "we're not all as comfortable with this many experienced folks yet as you, my detractors, are." The 'we', then, clearly refers to the people who aren't comfortable with it. Namely, me, though I surmise that the same is the case for the recently much-maligned Caledfwitch. I am discussing the group of players in this game as a single unit, then splitting them into two groups, namely the people who

are

comfortable with it, and those who aren't. I then proceed to place myself in the latter group. Is that sufficiently clear?

And ex-fucking-cuse me, but seriously? Five votes in two pages for this? Are you kidding me?

</rant>

Now, I'd like to grow to not suck at this game, which I evidently do 'cause I get five votes in two pages, but by the gods below, give me a chance.

What don't you like from Maenara? Why do you think #400 comes from scum?

It could be a style/personality thing. It looked like a whole lot of words that basically boiled down to "what the hell is wrong with you, give me a chance to get my head into the game."

Which in light of the last couple pages, I sympathize with now more than I did at the time I read it.

[morph the cat]

Which two?

[morph the cat]

Hi guys I'm just going to talk to myself in between your posts if that's alright

We kinda have to work through a few things before we talk about who to vote.

Cabd and I in particular. I hoped we'd be able to work through some ISOs tonight. We'll see.

[morph the cat]

Fuck it.

I'm taking a break.

[morph the cat]

I would never have thought that we could go on for however many hours and wind up with you still misreading me. I have an idea how burnt out I am. It's not that burnt out. So I don't think the disconnect is all on my side. But I am burnt out enough that I can't figure out how to bridge the gap.

[morph the cat]

The 50 v cat engagement is town AND productive I'm not sure if it can actually be for this game.

This is the quickest way to discuss this cat:

Town
1. Parama*
7. Desperado - strongest town read

12. Garruk Relentless (Natirasha + MafiaSSK hybrid) - Totally pissy-town Nati.

17. Generic - utterly town. Not sure he's going to be good to build consensus with today, though I liked that he jumped in with an objective-looking opinion on Spyrex. Also not sure a townbloc with him and pecanpie in it would be very functional.

13. pieceofpecanpie - town as fuck. Why didn't you post this way in Paradox Prime? See generic for townbloc concerns
16. M45t1n* - shallower thinker than real-mastin, but mostly agree with his reads.
18. SpyreX - some of his posts give me On a Boat flashbacks, but overall he seems more forthcoming than on day 1 of that game and definitely more than later in that game. I want notsci's opinion, though

20. notscience - his concerns about lack of consensus and attempts to get players to give him input on players he'd townbloc with is so fucking town.

Above or Below? Not sure

10. Formerfish* - Post phrasing sometimes puts me off, but on reread I usually think town.

5. 50 Shades of Purple (Nachomamma8 + pirate mollie hydra) - Moved up from maybe town based on the caled lynch appetite belonging to Mollie, not Nacho.

Maybe Town
3. T-Bone* - liked his early posts, but read would be stale as fuck if I had been in the game from the start.
4. Mastermind of Sin - some posts made me want to lynch him. some weren't so bad.
6. caledfwitch** InflatablePie - InflatablePie seemed town when he posted, especially early on. caled's first post looked like a towntell to me. Some of her later posts are pretty cheeky and I feel like this is a movement that her meta could predict. She's becoming looser and more confident with new games, but is always a low content player.
9. Agent Minnesota (PhDScar + Shaboostein hydra) ** - maybe belongs in the Not so Town group.

Not so Town
8. Paschendale - Nacho's 274 is a good summary of why.
11. Hiraki Sajin - need to re-ISO, but not liking him at all atm
14. evilpacman18* - mostly due to long periods with no posting. The out-of-synchness of some of his opinions could be due to periods of inactivity but I don't like some of his stances.
15. Porkens - lots of scumposts
19. Micc Maenara - maenera looked terrible for the most part. Micc hasn't done much since replacing in. I want to understand why this wagon dissipated.

I wanted to talk about Bolded mostly (there are others I could quibble about but):

1.) Both the above/belows are above. Fish is a style thing, not a content thing - yes, I read it AGAIN and I'd say town. Unless you two are evil geniuses that back and forth was magnifico and I'm not worried about 50.
2.) Garruk's "pissy" nonsense is just that and I dont see in a billion years how thats town. Its certainly not any content there.
3.) Notscience can float for now. I'm not excited about that slot even a little. Really while the people who aren't playing the game are bad, the people who are here and not actually saying anything are almost as bad.
4.) Never, ever, ever in a million years are you going to sell me on Generic. The "Objective Stance" was literally him saying no OMGUS round one. I've apparently lost my edge enough to really explain how deep in my core I believe that slot is going to die and EVEN if its tabled for building a consensus if we're ever, ever ahead or there's a question you can bet your ass I'll be picking that spot.

That said if a push needs to be made in the order of not wacky arm flailing I'd be way down with Micc. If evilpacman had been active on site he'd be dead as a doornail as well.

1. Yeah, was pretty much my conclusion, but I didn't feel as strongly about him as town as I did the rest of the Above, except for you. I want you in that group and giving input because I think if you are not town it will become apparent much more quickly that way and if you are town then all the influence you can exert is to to good. We could have lynched scum on day 1 of that last game.

2. Garruk's pissyness definitely isn't scum, though. SSK is hard for me to read, so I'm reading the Nati head.

3. Notsci doesn't have the gravitas to lead town, so he's trying really hard to promote someone he trusts into that role. And his reads are better than he gets credit for in some games, especially when he doesn't tunnel. And he's not tunneling.

4. Understood.

Re Micc, having just struggled to get a toehold in the game this weekend, I can to some extent sympathize. Nacho's reasoning for thinking his predecessor was town is something I want to stew on.

In fact, I want to stew on all my reads, especially the bottom 10 or so. Time is short and I wanted to start talking to players I think are town because that beats the hell out of spending hours in catch up and then more hours in ISOs without using the opportunity to bounce ideas around.

Of players in my scumpile are there any you think I have wrong?

[morph the cat]

Ffery please know that i am so incredibly dedicated to not misreading you that i am up at 4:30 in the morning in a hospital with my girlfriend who is asleep so that i dont go to sleep with a bad read on you.

I hope she's ok. And I hope you're asleep now.

I decided last night that I was ok with being misread as long as you'll spend a couple days like you think I'm town and work with me on reads. Treating the process of developing and comparing reads like it's adversarial isn't going to work for me. But, if you want to not misread me, that's a thousand times better.

[morph the cat]

TOWN
Desperado
Garruk
Generic
Popp
NS
Formerfish
Caled
Morph

Mostly Town:
Agent Minnesota
Paschendale
EPM
Micc
Parama

Meh:
SpyreX
Mastin
T-Bone

Bad:
MoS
Hiraki
Porkens

VOTE: Hiraki

I have a ton of questions but I'll wait until Cabd and I have worked through some ISOs.

[morph the cat]

@Desp,

What did you think of Sajin's one post (141)?

[morph the cat]

In rereading that part of the thread I saw that 2 players jumped in and called him scum for that post. Then in 145, you posted, didn't mention it, and put a vote down on MoS. The player Sajin had just voted.

I wondered if that post had initially pushed you in the direction of your MoS vote.

[morph the cat]

gah.

lack of sleep I guess. I went through that post looking for another quote or clip.

Ok. It just caught my eye that you put a vote down on the same player a couple posts later.

[morph the cat]

So you thought Sajin was bussing MoS?

[morph the cat]

ffs

I'll be back after a pot of coffee.

[morph the cat]

Parama, who else is in the town bloc?

Mastin, who is not scum but should be?

Reading this page alone, I hope the earlier pages are better. I'm reading tomorrow though.

Vote: Paschendale

Are you ready to actually be good this game?

This post, which said he made on the basis of reading a page or two, served to make the pasch wagon tie with the maenara wagon.

if this is the only page you have read, why are you asking the questions that you are asking as if you have knowledge of the current game state?

None of those questions imply that I have knowledge of the game, rather the opposite really.

Not the worst post in the world but slicing and dicing the logical implications of his earlier post pings. It's sort of the opposite of town-motivated.

It's like an admission to posturing

I haven't read any of the game yet (I'm going to at the end of this post)

The only way you can consider that to be scummy is if I was unable to contact my scumbuds (in a traitor manner) and therefore made myself clear in my first post. It was a friendly gesture. Stop over-analyzing it.

Same here. "This is how you're supposed to interpret that." Not, "No, this is what I meant".

Post 459. I'm not going to quote this monster. Not a terrible post, but the posts that he chooses to comment on, especially so many really early rvs-type posts looked like fluffy busywork for someone replacing into a fairly long day 1 with pretty content-dense pages. It almost felt like trying to develop the camaraderie that sometimes comes out of rvs phase.

Let's make a deal.

I can quote Paschedale saying the same thing in at least 2 other games. Do we have a deal here, Paschendale-wagoniers?

Day 1 wagons on me like this are always mislynches.

Fuck it.

Unvote, Vote: Paschendale

Kinda didn't see that coming as I read through. It kinda has a maybe-town-waffle feel to it, rather than the hedgy, word-dicy stuff earlier.

Are you voting for Pasch as a policy lynch?

No. My policy is to keep him from being lynched since he's usually a VI target (due take care to note the fact that I usually am for his lynch near late game--and not at late game--due to the fact that he becomes more and more of a useless and annoying distraction). I'm not 100% sure of that this game.

#456 makes me think that you are a traitor and that was your reach out. I would never have gone there without you putting the idea out there. And why would you do that as scum? Because you could easily WIFOM the shit out of us and make it plausible that scum wouldn’t be stupid enough to put themselves on blast like that.

I will validate your argument if you find any scum game where I'm ballsy as fuck. I'm not going to change now and I certainly wasn't ballsy before.

If you want to think I'm traitor for having a bit of my own "pre-game", then go ahead. I'm not going to stop you. But it's a pretty crappy argument that you think I'm scum due to stuff I said that was made in jest rather than something in the post that I took a good deal of time making.

So, here's some actual hedge. He's going against his usual policy of sticking up for the mislynch bait because he's not 100% sure this game. IOW he's unsure. But this is where his vote is. His response to the second quote has a "caught for the wrong reasons" air to it.

EWBOP: Wow, it posted twice and I wasn't even up to date.

People seem to think I'm not analysing because I'm using it to buy my life...

I am just actually uninterested in wasting time and energy.

Selfish? yep. Do I care? Nope.

I don't come on here to appease the faceless masses. I come on here for me. Tough shit if you thought differently.

okay so I am uninterested in wasting time and energy on reading your posts (cos you are still making them) and think you will be the best compromise lynch.

unless you decide to take a different attitude.

Starting to feel this way too.

My last post in this game for a bit cos reading it kind of bores me now, it's like a reluctant gang bang where someone new tries to find a way to paint me as scum that doesn't seem like they are just wanting to join the wagon.

Toodles.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THE PEOPLE IN DIS GAME DINK I'M SCUM AND I DON'T LIKE IT
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Unvote, Vote: Generic

You're no good to me now.

I really dislike that he springboarded off someone who's townreading generic to jump onto this wagon.

But, this is obviously going to be ignored while you all push his mislynch so \o/

The only argument you have toward not lynching him is that you know. I get that, I totally understand. Somewhere inside of me, I think that Generic is probably not scum too.

Here's the problem: He's unwilling to cooperate, being an absolute shit in general, and is being pretty anti-town for a townie.

Is it really that bad to lynch him?

So he moves from the lynchbait who might reeeaaally be scum this time to the player he thinks is an "anti-town" townie.

Generic hasn't made any ripples in this game.

No ripples? Really? He's made enough ripples to have been a wagon...twice? And he's taken more stances on other players than you have.

do you have any thoughts on it?

Literally haven't read much of it.

I think it's you two just confirming the information needed for reads, no?

If you're not reading it, why even comment on it?

I'm going to just dangle myself around while no one decides to explain their reads (to be fair, I'm not 100% sure on Desperado but I'm damn sure on 50 and Generic)

Not 100% sure as in a read? And what are you damn sure on 50 and Generic about?

Any actual reads you'd like to share?

[morph the cat]

Morph the cat, you can be a part of the five vote town block we have brewing here. Yes I am not the most stable individual, but at least you know my intentions are town motivated.
And. 50 shades, notscience and desperado are the shining light.

You know it makes sense.

O hai

[morph the cat]

If you're not reading it, why even comment on it?

I was answering a question and it was a plainly stated uninformed opinion. I'm not liking your play thus far, to be quite honest.

How about answering the questions I posed for you at the bottom of that post?

[morph the cat]

I had no idea those questions would be so taxing.

[morph the cat]

synch achieved.

VOTE: Hiraki

[morph the cat]

These are the questions I'm particularly interested in.

I'm going to just dangle myself around while no one decides to explain their reads (to be fair, I'm not 100% sure on Desperado but I'm damn sure on 50 and Generic)

Not 100% sure as in a read? And what are you damn sure on 50 and Generic about?

Any actual reads you'd like to share?

[morph the cat]

Can you at least explain what you meant with respect to Desp, 50 and Generic before you go?

[morph the cat]

MoS ISO

Spoiler: quotewall

This is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?

Vote: evilpacman18

Ninja-edit: Parama, your #2 doesn't make much sense to me. Why are you attributing not paying attention to the thread as a scummy action? It's obviously WIFOM either way, but scum do have inherently more motive to pay close attention to what they say in the thread, because they're trying not to look scummy. Town have the same motive in a way, but it's not as prominent.

The first half of this seems like overly aggressive posturing. I liked the second part. Though talk about what scum may do in various phases of a game is easy theory to shoot the breeze about and look like you're contributing.

I really disagree that scum will want to pay attention more to the thread than town. Town needs to be constantly looking out for scummy posts to play to their win condition. I personally think the motivation is equal but if one is more likely than the other it would be town.

~Agent Minnesota

I'm not saying there isn't motivation for town, but I do think the motivation is stronger for scum. Both town and scum have to read the thread to find scummy posts, because scum have to fake scumhunting just as much as town have to do real scumhunting. However, scum have the additional onus of needing to make sure that their posts don't look scummy, whereas that is less of a concern for town. Some will argue that town should make an active effort to look town because it helps us (and they're not necessarily wrong), but scum have a very strong and obvious reason to watch what they say and how it might look, which on a basic level means that they will probably pay more attention to the thread than the average town player. This will all eventually devolve into WIFOM, though, but at the most basic level it prompted me to question why Parama thought that particular facet of Garruk's play was scummy.

P-Edit: Parama is doing good things, and I agree that site meta for the beginning of a game is stupid. However, that meta has not really changed at all for the 8+ years I've been on this site. People have always fucked around for no reason at the start of a game, it's just how they do it that changes over time.

Also, pecanpie is making absolutely no sense and I'm pretty sure they sucked his brains out.

I so want to weigh in on this early convo :/

The P-Edits are not bad. I like that it was encouragement to do good things and discouragement to do bad things.

Dat bandwagon vote... We must meet this threat with our valor, our blood, indeed with our very lives to ensure that human civilization, not insect, dominates this galaxy now and always!

Unvote, Vote: Porkens

Also, Garruk is pretty town. We can move on to more important things like lynching scum now, rather than continuing to flood the thread with pointless back-and-forth wall posts between town. K?

Liked this post 85. Agreed about Garruk.
94 - I liked this post too. Both the defence against bandwagon hopping accusation and the reason for voting Porkins.

This style of bashing the person voting you tends to come from your scum game MoS. Also lots of noise from your posts. Why even post troopers flavor?

Vote: MoS

When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.

My mother always told me that violence doesn't solve anything.

V/LA 11/22-12/1, very unlikely to be able to post except maybe Monday/Tuesday.

Also, Porkenscum is loving the counterattack that's being mounted for him while he hides out without posting for over 24 hours.

This post is interesting in that it's quite the fuck you to Sajin's observation about his scum style of play. Sans meta, I'd interpret this as a townpost.

299 - somewhere in this vicinity someone commented that MoS' scum game involves walls and discredit-style defences against pushes. We'll do some meta diving.

nono

we are trying to help you bus porkens so you can get town cred don't wimp out now

I expect the best and I give the best. Here's the beer. Here's the entertainment. Now have fun. That's an order.

Also, I don't need town cred. I'm me.

Another really confident looking post.

Spyrex's case on Generic is pretty juicy. I want to see where this goes. (Don't worry Pasch, I won't forget about your scum-ass. Or PorkenScum, for that matter)

Unvote, Vote: Generic

Young people from all over the globe are joining up to fight for the future. If you're doing your part, say the following in your next post:

"I'm doing my part."

Then vote Generic.

Moving from 2 scumreads to generic based on SpyreX's case. Opportunistic?
From here there's wagon hopping to Porkens and back to Generic. Maybe there's something to this early days accusation?
So his vote's on Generic for a fair long while and then this:

Not so Town

8. Paschendale - Nacho's 274 is a good summary of why.
11. Hiraki

Sajin

- need to re-ISO, but not liking him at all atm
14. evilpacman18* - mostly due to long periods with no posting. The out-of-synchness of some of his opinions could be due to periods of inactivity but I don't like some of his stances.
15. Porkens - lots of scumposts
19. Micc

Maenara

- maenera looked terrible for the most part. Micc hasn't done much since replacing in. I want to understand why this wagon dissipated.

Hey morph wanna reboot the Porkens or Pasch wagons with me? I need a corporal. You're it until you're dead or I find someone better.

While his vote is on Generic.
I have no idea who his top scum read is, whether he's changed his mind about Generic, or if he gives a fuck specifically who gets lynched today.

So much to like in some of these posts. I thought I was going to get to the end of this ISO and ask wtf, Nacho?
Didn't happen.

[morph the cat]

Or we could also see how scummy post 929 is and kill it with fire.

Would it help if I faked a cop innocent on him as a nuetral survivor? (aka long time no see)

[morph the cat]

As of right now ffery and I have him down as town.

[morph the cat]

But I must admit the tunnel on generic could use some stopping.

[morph the cat]

Explain to me, why is Generic town?

Meta. He's got a very retrained scumgame; and his towngame has it all hanigng out there.

Ffery dropped a larger explaination post earlier.

[morph the cat]

These are the things I'm talking about. EXPLAIN...because you never care to explain any of these votes. Once in awhile I can understand...but this is a habit. Why is your gameplay filled with unsubstantiated votes?

It really is a playstyle thing. I call it reverse trajectory and it has its own advantages as a scumhunting tool, though it also can be used to obscure the motivations for the vote.

[morph the cat]

This post, which said he made on the basis of reading a page or two, served to make the pasch wagon tie with the maenara wagon.

I did not know that Paschendale had a wagon at that point in time. You can check other games. I usually park my vote on Paschendale when entering a game.

Ok.

Not the worst post in the world but slicing and dicing the logical implications of his earlier post pings. It's sort of the opposite of town-motivated.

No, the questions that I am asking are questions. What I say it is, is what it is. There is no reason to believe that those questions demonstrated any knowledge of the game.

What pings in your interactions is that rather than clarifying when you're misunderstood you point out where the person's logic about what you posted was wrong. It looks like an attempt to maintain a superior stance rather than to make yourself more understood. That could be a personality thing, but it pings because I see it in scum play more often than in town.

Same here. "This is how you're supposed to interpret that." Not, "No, this is what I meant".

Well, I think it's quite obvious that when I say "this is how you're supposed to interpret it" that I mean "this is what I mean." What's your point and how are these two points not correlating? If it's my interpretation of how something is to go, then isn't it what I meant?

As I said above, it's about the stance you take when you go about clarifying in a way that puts down the person who questions you.

IOW he's unsure. But this is where his vote is.

I'm unsure that this follows the logic that Paschendale is town in this situation. Not that I'm unsure if Paschendale is scum. I'm always thinking that Paschendale is anti-town and therefore he should be lynched. There is absolutely no question that I could cook up an easy 1-2-3 case on Paschendale's play. I haven't paid any or much attention to him in the game and I am pretty darn certain that I can do it. That's how bad I think his play is.

I don't use normal tells with him. It's too risky and it's almost always wrong. Meta-tells just work better here. It's an anomaly and if the opposite of what I want happens (for reasons previously stated) but I'm not going to say he's scum for doing something scummy. It just doesn't work with him. Call it a horribly devised defense that looks like a cheeky scum-fuck. I just will not try to lynch him off of normal tells.

That being said, Paschendale in this game is exhibiting an abnormal amount of "ignorant omniscience" for the fact that he knows that he looks bad but just won't try to or deal with it.

If you'd like, I could go on about this but I have no real want or reason to do so right now.

I really dislike that he springboarded off someone who's townreading generic to jump onto this wagon.

Generic's play changed pretty fast from ok to bad. I hope you have no intention of disputing this.

And, not to mention, Generic was never a townread. Post 689 is factually false. Generic has been a scumread for me (I will go into this now since the wagon is dying down)

Ok. I'm going to go back and reread these posts in context to see if that's what your words actually said about both players.

So he moves from the lynchbait who might reeeaaally be scum this time to the player he thinks is an "anti-town" townie.

Again, already had reasoning that I was scum. I'm surprised you saw that I called him newbtown but didn't catch that I called him scum earlier with no real correlation between the two ideas.

Stance changes during catch-up don't surprise me and I don't consider them scummy by default.

No ripples? Really? He's made enough ripples to have been a wagon...twice?

Fair enough, ripples was meant to be used in a good connotation not a negative one.

Ok. I thought "ripples" meant stuff that impacted the game state in any way, not just a positive way.

And he's taken more stances on other players than you have.

I don't need to guess that you threw away my first post now, I know you did.

[/quote]

From your later posts, where you indicated that post was made prior to reading, you threw it away yourself. It could be an indication of your stance, but is uninformed, much like RVS posts are.

Not 100% sure as in a read? And what are you damn sure on 50 and Generic about?

If they had explained their reads on me.

Thanks.

Any actual reads you'd like to share?

I stand by these reads from earlier.

Garruk is scum.
Parama is town.
Nachomollie is town.
SpyreX is unknown at the moment.
MoS is town.
popp is town.
Generic is scum.

With that in mind, I'm certainly fine with also saying the following:

Morph is leaning scum.
T-Bone is weak leaning town (I need more)
caledfwitch is null (due to the fact that I'm expecting a third replacement in this slot)
Paschendale is scum (but he's a last resort target and/or vigshot)
I still need to read Agent Minnesota but the reason that I don't have a clear read after being in around 10 pages of the game is concerning.

Everyone else just needs to post more. I'll look at them again but I don't feel that I did a bad job the second time, per se.

Overall this set of replies confuses me. You've put forth some effort to convince me that you're town, yet you are scumreading me. It's not like you could change my mind about you if I'm scum.

Also, could you provide some reasoning for these reads?

[morph the cat]

We have about 15.5 hours. Unless Matias adds a few hours due to the downtime yesterday.

[morph the cat]

I'm not sure which one I saw. :/

I just flipped back a few pages until I noticed one, and saw a time, not a countdown.

You're right, though.

[morph the cat]

where is hiraki? I assume he's in the naughty pile.

[morph the cat]

Why is pecan in your need to sort pile?

[morph the cat]

Do you know if pecan is more assertive as town or scum?

[morph the cat]

@50 Shades you left us out, but that's because we haven't done anything recently.

You're at the bottom of her naughty pile.

[morph the cat]

mollie the reason I ask is this: I've played 2 games with pecan and thought he was scum in both because he used a lot of passive voice and was p much the opposite of assertive. Those games were both several months ago, though, and I think he had just gotten active on sight again about the time of the first game.

This game is different and his play feels much more town to me. Buuuut given how he played in the paradox prime and Rage minis, I'm wondering if I am missing something. I don't have a lot of time today for meta diving, so I want to throw this into the thread before nightfall for consideration later.

[morph the cat]

I thought maybe your putting him in needs to sort meant you had some similar experience.

The stuff you've said about pasch makes sense. This is my first game with him, and coming into the game so late, I haven't tried to meta any of the people I'm unfamiliar with yet. There are a lot of players I haven't played with before in this game.

I don't have any concerns about your townpile, but would advise caution about SpyreX. I love his playstyle and persona, but they work well for non-town alignments. :/

I'd be really surprised that scum-tbone would go after big dogs at the end of day 1 given all the easier targets. And I think his play is informed by vintage site meta to some extent.

I'll meta porkens and pecan during the night phase, I guess. You guys really confused me this weekend when you (I think it was you...) voted porkens while Nacho called me out for my scum-read of him. I assumed you two aren't synched about him.

[morph the cat]

What makes sense to me about pasch is the reactions of other players and that his wagon never really went anywhere despite how scummy his posts looked to me. That, and nacho being tweaked that my initial reads looked too easy.

[morph the cat]

I don't suppose we could do a flashlynch on epm

:/

It's like my reads list wasn't that terrible after all.

You ok with the risk that we dismantle the hiraki wagon and wind up with a nolynch?

[morph the cat]

I don't suppose we could do a flashlynch on epm

:/

It's like my reads list wasn't that terrible after all.

You ok with the risk that we dismantle the hiraki wagon and wind up with a nolynch?

I am but the vets in this game will get pissy. we need the lynch. I don't think he is town enough not to lynch him.

I am looking at your list now, you have spyrella as town so why did you try to warn me about him?

He replied to my reads list. I replied to his reply. And there are other posts that touch on it. Short answer is that while he got past me in the first game I played with him, I'm not picking up any of the markers that I found while that game was in progress, or after the fact when I knew he was the SK. Though I doubt I've seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of the variations in his play, his posts look town to me and his interactions with me personally feel different. But, his reputation precedes him. If he's town, then his reads will probably be very accurate (kuribo's scum flowchart evidences that). If he's not town, and he's influencing the lynches, then something will start looking amiss pretty quickly.

also did post which porkens posts looked scummy and why were you confused after we voted him? you should have seen that as an olive branch

I'll go back and look at porkens when I have time. I don't remember off the top of my head. I was confused because it came in the middle of a very intense exchange with Nacho and it didn't mark the end of that interrogation. It sort of marked a shift in focus, but it confused the hell out of me. It looked more dissonant than anything.

Do I ever recognize your olive branches? I would never have guessed that vote was meant to be one.

[morph the cat]

Willing to flashwagon EPM (and willing to commit to be around to move back to avoid nolynch)

50 Shades
Morph
Garruk

[morph the cat]

Looking at Porken's ISO the stuff that really bothered me in my readthrough was the differences in our reads at various stages of the game. Stuff like scumreading pecanpie and "townreading" pasch really bugged me. Then the actual readslist showed pasch just one color-tier above the scumreads. Also townreading hiraki.

I'm thinking that some of the reads disconnect comes down to which players we each are familiar with.

[morph the cat]

I'm not ffery, sorry, but she's probably been waiting for me. I've been fighting virus infections at my branches, we haven't had time to talk.

We'll synch up in a few hours.

[morph the cat]

Also, it's really hard to pass on lynching Amagi

That TV-using murderous smug bastard

[morph the cat]

sorry you have been sick cabd

Not me, silly. The computers I work on for my job.

And I can actually link you the main one she's talking about. That was the game I did my epic nuetral survivor gambit in; paradox prime.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=29264

[morph the cat]

sorry you have been sick cabd

Not me, silly. The computers I work on for my job.

And I can actually link you the main one she's talking about. That was the game I did my epic nuetral survivor gambit in; paradox prime.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=29264

You can link to both of them! The other one was the Rage Mini Normal where we were the SK..

[morph the cat]

A day will be added to the deadline because more downtime. VC when I'm home.

scratch the request, I missed this post

fery why the fade when it looks like we will be given more time to organise an epm lynch?

Two reasons.

I want Cabd's thoughts. I can't turn this into a personal campaign unless I know we agree that EPM is a better lynch than Hiraki.

And, you also faded, so I wasn't sure how convinced you really are that switching the lynch is a good idea.

[morph the cat]

MY READS SORTA UPDATED ("townbloc" is the top group"

TownTownTown

1. Parama*
7. Desperado - strongest town read
12. Garruk Relentless (Natirasha + MafiaSSK hybrid) - Totally pissy-town Nati.
17. Generic - utterly town. Not sure he's going to be good to build consensus with today, though I liked that he jumped in with an objective-looking opinion on Spyrex. Also not sure a townbloc with him and pecanpie in it would be very functional.
13. pieceofpecanpie - town as fuck. Why didn't you post this way in Paradox Prime? See generic for townbloc concerns
16. M45t1n* - shallower thinker than real-mastin, but mostly agree with his reads.
18. SpyreX - some of his posts give me On a Boat flashbacks, but overall he seems more forthcoming than on day 1 of that game and definitely more than later in that game. I want notsci's opinion, though
20. notscience - his concerns about lack of consensus and attempts to get players to give him input on players he'd townbloc with is so fucking town.
10. Formerfish* - Post phrasing sometimes puts me off, but on reread I usually think town.
5. 50 Shades of Purple (Nachomamma8 + pirate mollie hydra) - Moved up from maybe town based on the caled lynch appetite belonging to Mollie, not Nacho.

Town/Null

3. T-Bone* - liked his early posts, but read would be stale as fuck if I had been in the game from the start. Attack on 50 and Desp would be risky as scum.
6. caledfwitch**

InflatablePie

- InflatablePie seemed town when he posted, especially early on. caled's first post looked like a towntell to me. Some of her later posts are pretty cheeky and I feel like this is a movement that her meta could predict. She's becoming looser and more confident with new games, but is always a low content player.
9. Agent Minnesota (PhDScar + Shaboostein hydra) ** - maybe belongs in the Not so Town group.
15. Porkens - movin on up
8. Paschendale - Nacho's 274 is a good summary of why.

Not so Town

11. Hiraki

Sajin

- need to re-ISO, but not liking him at all atm
14. evilpacman18* - mostly due to long periods with no posting. The out-of-synchness of some of his opinions could be due to periods of inactivity but I don't like some of his stances.
4. Mastermind of Sin - ISO moved him down
19. Micc

Maenara

-

maenera looked terrible for the most part.

Micc hasn't done much since replacing in. I want to understand why this wagon dissipated.

[morph the cat]

Hey Mollie,

Cabd wants to stick with the Hiraki lynch.

[morph the cat]

A little bit of time to mull things over is always nice.

@Morph

Could you clarify what those "*" next to various names are for? Furthermore, why are you townreading Parama? I've struggled with that slot a bit myself.

While we're musing over games of mine, I'm not proud of my efforts in Paradox Prime, I really wanted to get on board that one so /in'd as a replacement. Unfortunately that meant I couldn't decided when I'd be a part of it and had a bit too much on my plate initially, so playing catch up, being awed into silence by the crazy mechanics/flavour and lacking confidence (especially around louder, more assertive players) all played its part.

Rage was practically over before it started for me, the mass number of replacements (myself being one of them) meant I really wanted to slow roll my reads a bit, but ended up digging myself a hole instead. As town I probably do tend to play passive with reads and pushing lynches quite a bit, but I try to improve on each game.

All my other games are in my wiki.

The "*" are from the OP and I think they signify prods. I didn't delete them. Was in a hurry. Didn't clean up the list as much as I should have when I revised/reposted either.

Paradox Prime was a confusing game. I can relate to that now that it's been over for a while. I was pretty quiet (for me) on day 1 and 2. I got pulled under the lights due to derping at the start of day 3, and stepped up my game because I thought that would be my last opportunity to contribute.

Rage was one of those games that was blighted by player apathy. I go back and forth about even playing mini normals because apathy seems to strike so many of them. I'll read through some of your isos from other games.

The main thing about Parama was that I could follow his stances - they made sense to me, even if I didn't always agree with him.

[morph the cat]

Also, it's really hard to pass on lynching ADACHI

That TV-using murderous smug bastard

Fixed for correctness.

[morph the cat]

Prod Received. Finals week sucks. I don't know how I went from so bored to so busy so fast.

If I am understanding things right the deadline is tomorrow. I'm not even going to pretend that I have been keeping up with this game. Avoiding a no lynch is my biggest concern. I will check in tomorrow afternoon and vote if needed.

This terrible. I know. I'm sorry.

You seem very not-passionate, very much unlike our newbie game together.

[morph the cat]

Do you hate townblocking on principle? Because I assure you, that shit ffery did with mollie for a few pages? Is very valid sorting process that makes us feel town about each other; link up; and POE the fuck out of the game.

[morph the cat]

fuck the lurkers in this game

With something sharp and spikey, at that.

[morph the cat]

@Pasch

[...] do you understand that bantering is part of how people

obtain

their reads?

This. Definitely this.

It's also how you obscure any legitimate ideas with fluff and nonsense. This game long since crossed the line from useful discussion to babbling.

Interesting aside, literally none of my questions this game have been answered. When I press people for reasons, they just brush me off. And then they wonder why I'm less engaged as this game goes on.

If I fail to answer questions you address to me, please point it out.

[morph the cat]

Because she's being lazy town a la 167/practically every other towngame of hers ever + her posts sound town

[morph the cat]

So, solve the game before xylo?

That's my plan yes. Worst case, PL the day before. I don't think it'll be an issue though.

[morph the cat]

Why are we diverting here; again?

[morph the cat]

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT
accuracy not guaranteed, void where prohibited, ymmv, etc

Generic (4) - SpyreX, Paschendale, Mastermind of Sin, pieceofpecanpie
SpyreX (0) -

Hiraki (10) - 50 Shades of Purple, Desperado, generic, notscience, morph the cat, M45t1n, Garruk Relentless, Formerfish, evilpacman

50 Shades of Purple (2) - T-Bone, caledfwitch
morph the cat (0) -
Paschendale (1) - Parama
caledfwitch (1) - Agent Minnesota
Micc (1) - SpyreX
Agent Minnesota (0) -
pieceofpecanpie (0) -
evilpacman (2) - Porkens, Hikari


I went through the thread from the last vote count onward.

[morph the cat]

mollie, jiffy is voting Pasch because parama was voting pasch

and Jiffy's town game recently has been shi, so if he's skating by he's probably OK

nono

nononono

see that is the koolaid you guys drink when I am not around and I am telling you do not let him skate. majiffy would have looked at the playerlist before joining in fact it is probably why he subbed in and if he got a scum role pm he is going to avoid us like the plague. town majiffy would immediately have posted and talked a bunch of shit.

We won't let him skate, because letting him skate was such a good idea in the Dixon Hill hardboiled game.

Hi Majiffy!

[morph the cat]

I still think there is a good chance that hiraki might flip scum

I dunno.

(emphasis mine)

This wagon stinks.

My interest in it has probably piqued at the right time though, as there are folks on it who need looking into. So I suppose there's little choice but to get this flip out for today. I most likely won't be on until after the deadline, so if ever there was time to get a bit claim-y, Hiraki, now would be it.

VOTE: Hiraki

L-1

Why does it stink and who do you think need looking into?

[morph the cat]

But I just realized, 50 just sealed the deal. I'm VT. Scum has this in the bag from Day 1 if this is how the game will progress from now on.

Can you post some reads? Who on your wagon is scum in your opinion?

[morph the cat]

Hey Micc. What are your reads.

[morph the cat]

Has your read changed?

[morph the cat]

Hey morphy-poo, SSK and I've been chatting and we think SpyreX is scum.

How so?

[morph the cat]

Hey morphy-poo, SSK and I've been chatting and we think SpyreX is scum.

How so?

are you planning on doing anything today

what are your thoughts on majiffy

Well I for one am planning on taking a nice cold shower now that I'm off work, the suit is very hot and heavy. That said, this game does get attention tonight, yes. I'll take it to the morphcave and we'll come back with stuffsies.

If you're legit scumreading jiffy I'm inclined to follow you after the events of Hidden Temple; one of you scumreading the other is probs correct.

We both wanna see notsci articulate though.

[morph the cat]

Hey morphy-poo, SSK and I've been chatting and we think SpyreX is scum.

How so?

Wwll, our conversation went like this.

Nat: what do you think about Song Contest?
SSK: we're still in that game.
Nat: yeah.
SSK: oh.
Nat: who do you think is scum.
SSK: I dunno, SpyreX?
Nat: yeah me too.

I was hoping you guys could build the case.

Nah. Notsci's problem.

[morph the cat]

I'll take it to the morphcave and we'll come back with stuffsies.

[morph the cat]

It's a very posh cave; full of catnip, toy mice, and a huge catbed.

[morph the cat]

BnB hydra existing + you wouldn't be voting him unless you had a scumread on him or were scum looking to mislynch him; and I heavily doubt the second one. Do you WANT me to discount your ability to read your sig other?

[morph the cat]

Hey morphy-poo, SSK and I've been chatting and we think SpyreX is scum.

How so?

Wwll, our conversation went like this.

Nat: what do you think about Song Contest?
SSK: we're still in that game.
Nat: yeah.
SSK: oh.
Nat: who do you think is scum.
SSK: I dunno, SpyreX?
Nat: yeah me too.

I was hoping you guys could build the case.

Nah. Notsci's problem.

Hey. :/

BnB hydra existing + you wouldn't be voting him unless you had a scumread on him or were scum looking to mislynch him; and I heavily doubt the second one. Do you WANT me to discount your ability to read your sig other?

I am just surprised you would be that easy. I usually have to use the shouty font with you.

I am scumreading him cos I don't like his angles. he fakes a negative result right out the gate and then says "lololol I just wanna see if you would clam up". <------ bullshit. when I ask him about you guys he is all like "ns is townreading them and I will go with that!" and ignoring the history we have with your hydra. <---- this is like wth. he sheeps my vote onto pecan person with weak reasoning and he isn't trying to sort things out he is trying to control things. <-----last part is null for him but I am not liking it when taking in everything else.

where is fery and her whole trajectory analysis

@ notty

I am clinging to you like you are a floating log in a rapid running river.

I've been somewhat around but mostly busy with a ton of unexpected shit this week.

VCA will probably be more useful to look at, though I think hiraki was a compromise for many players. I love how "trajectory analysis" is a thing, though. Someday I'll have to develop a rigorous, repeatable process or something.

[morph the cat]

I like Spyrex' vote.

[morph the cat]

Well then.

[morph the cat]

Oh and also morph is female most of the time.

[morph the cat]

I am just surprised you would be that easy. I usually have to use the shouty font with you.

I do miss the shouty font. You can use it anyways if it makes you feel good!

[morph the cat]

What are you thinking about MoS, Mollie?

[morph the cat]

Alright, so I finally got to talk to SSK.

We're claiming.

We're Poe--Haunted. Roleblocker. We blocked SpyreX last night. I assume you guys can do the math.

You ~really~ shouldn't have done that; given there's other reasons last night's kill may have failed. Ffery and I don't think a scumteam would risk having spyrex do the kill with watchers and trackers running around probably in a large like this.

[morph the cat]

Notscience sucks at hydrae.

Because he's a powerful player. If i had a scumteam of noob-powerfulplayers-me, TMT would be making the kills until dead. (NY165)

[morph the cat]

Why would making Spyrex do the kill be a risk?

Because most scum teams like their strong players to make it as far into the game as possible, and having them tracked to a kill, roleblocked, etc, kinda screws that over.

There are considerations that would weigh against that, like mutually exclusive scum night actions, and how strongly suspected the rest of the scum team is.

[morph the cat]

Holy shit why is Morph defending Spyrex so hard.

So hard?

Roleblocker's chances of hitting scum night 1 in a 20 player game is pretty small.

And as Cabd mentioned, there are a few other reasons for nightkills to go missing, some of which have a higher probability of happening than successful RB night 1.

I've been a town roleblocker a few times off site. I never stopped a kill on night 1, though I have targeted scum on night 1.

[morph the cat]

My only hesitation is that I don’t think I’ve ever seen a town role blocker. Anyone?

You are Hannah Hart, Town Post Restricted 2-shot Roleblocker!
Image
As the host of My Drunk Kitchen, you... mostly drink a lot. Also, you make tons of puns! (Punderful ones!) Oh yeah, and you cook. You’re actually getting better at that, too, I guess.
Cheese Pleasin’ Me: You must include a pun in every post. If you forget 3 or more times during a day phase, you lose your vote for that phase.
Hello!: Twice in the game, you may visit someone and give them alcohol, which will roleblock them.
BOOP-BOOP!: You have a vote.

Win Condition: You win when no threats to the town remain in the game.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by PMing me your rolename, alignment, and brief description of your abilities.

[morph the cat]

My only hesitation is that I don’t think I’ve ever seen a town role blocker. Anyone?

You are Hannah Hart, Town Post Restricted 2-shot Roleblocker!
Image
As the host of My Drunk Kitchen, you... mostly drink a lot. Also, you make tons of puns! (Punderful ones!) Oh yeah, and you cook. You’re actually getting better at that, too, I guess.
Cheese Pleasin’ Me: You must include a pun in every post. If you forget 3 or more times during a day phase, you lose your vote for that phase.
Hello!: Twice in the game, you may visit someone and give them alcohol, which will roleblock them.
BOOP-BOOP!: You have a vote.

Win Condition: You win when no threats to the town remain in the game.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by PMing me your rolename, alignment, and brief description of your abilities.

That was a quadz game, even.

[morph the cat]

I'm willing to go with you on spyrex Mollie, but ffery and I have specific theories about where night kill(s) might have gone other than the roleblock.

VOTE: spyrex <--cabd totally voting without a sync and ffery will hopefully flip out
P-edit: oh okay

[morph the cat]

That should have said molliecho. Phonepost that ffery or I can quote into our ISO later.

[morph the cat]

Ffery, it's not in your nature to give strong threats as scum so much unwarranted room. Why is spyrex getting treated like a shiny golden asset when so many things scream scum scum scum and not so many things scream town town town?

We've played one game together. His play this game is different.

You appear to be much more sure about him being scum today than you were yesterday, so I'll add that to my considerations.

[morph the cat]

UNVOTE

Synch needs to happen before we revote. I'm leaning toward MoS.

[morph the cat]

I'm here as well.

@Spyrex

What is the difference between your heart read and your gut read?

[morph the cat]

I think you mean "head", not "heart".

Otherwise,

Spoiler:

No, I'm asking what SpryreX means by the following:

I really, REALLY, want Micc or Pacman dead. My heart says Micc, my hate-filled gut says Pacman.

[morph the cat]

There is no good reason to bring up claiming if you're not going to claim and no one asked you for one. It just muddles the discussion, like is happening now. Spy only did it to discourage votes for him. Why are you so deadset on defending him without offering any reason nor even suggesting why such a claim would be true or useful? I am not doing your work for you.

Would you describe yourself as literal-minded?

[morph the cat]

Hey, hey nacho. Guess what. We're not gonna follow you at this time and or place, sorry love.

[morph the cat]

Mollie if you think we're scum then vote us.

I've been busy. So has Cabd.

At first blush I don't like the pecan wagon.

[morph the cat]

Mollie if you think we're scum then vote us.

I've been busy. So has Cabd.

At first blush I don't like the pecan wagon.

since you had pecan as strong town the "at first blush" is kinda weird!

The wagon and its reasons, which is related, but separate from my day 1 read.

[morph the cat]

Arf arf this hydra thinks that MoS is town.

And SpyreX is still blocked scum.

Hoowl!

What's the basis of your town read of MoS. I came away from day 1's read-up feeling like his early posts weren't too bad but that I disagreed more and more with his stances as the day progressed.

[morph the cat]

Mollie can read ffery like the back of her hand. Resort to her read.

Not true. Her paranoia sometimes gets in the way of a decent read these days.

- Walking Dead (she tried to vig me-sangres at least once, and she had her vote on me for a good long chunk of day 2. She voted me off and on through the rest of the game until scum finally put me out of my misery)
- Space Mini Normal (she basically deferred reading me/Empire, but gave another player carte blanche to get me lynched on day 2. According to her mason QT she was scumreading me on N1 as well. Then she died)

She did ok in Xenogears, but I kinda wonder if that read would have held true beyond day 1.

[morph the cat]

Definitely not liking the preemptive jump in to discredit any mollie scumread on you, ffery.

Pretty sure she's already scumreading me.

[morph the cat]

Morph, are you reading Jiffy as town...if so, why?

Ironically, because Mollie's townreading him..

[morph the cat]

...but she's scumreading you, and if you're town and her read is wrong on you how can you trust her reads on other players?

The fact that her recent track record reading me has been pretty shitty doesn't mean her reads are shitty in general. She plays with Majiffy a lot more than I do. With more data, I'll be able to formulate a decent read. I have managed to read him accurately in most of the games we've played.

I should give her credit for getting to an accurate town-read on me in GiF's recent micro game, though I'm not really sure how much that read was hers vs Nacho's. He did most of the 50 Shades posting in that game.

[morph the cat]

ur last game together (in which you are scum). (assuming I'm talking to the ffery head)

My read is currently tentative town. I like that he got testy about my "preemptive discredit" of Mollie. I like that his reaction to Garruk's block Spyrex claim was similar to mine. I don't like the pecan read, but that's usually one of the places where our thinking parts ways when we're both town - his preferred lynch.

[morph the cat]

not sure what happened to the quote in that post.

[morph the cat]

Mollie will be around to tell you that I'm town, and she's town, and NS is town, and the pecan wagon is the right wagon to be on because she's going to drop the stupid Spyrex wagon in a minute.

we are town and I am pretty sure ns is town but I am hard pressed with you since you are

missing basic fucking cues

and it is dumb to push some1 who will not be around.

hey morph! what happened to that mosy case? decided not to bus?

Oh for fuck's sake. Diplomatic relations have broken down I see. Bring nacho out to the DMZ, the guys are gonna have to talk this one out instead.

[morph the cat]

Look molliecho; fact of the matter is, we've got a really great reason for wanting to avoid this clusterfuck called the spyrex wagon.

I've been stuck out of town/lazy the past few days and ffery hasn't wanted to vote without me here. So deal with it. I'm still catching up but all these little potshots at us have achieved nothing but making ffery more apathetic than me about this game. And that's pretty hard to do because I'm a lazy fucker.

[morph the cat]

Mollie will be around to tell you that I'm town, and she's town, and NS is town, and the pecan wagon is the right wagon to be on because she's going to drop the stupid Spyrex wagon in a minute.

we are town and I am pretty sure ns is town but I am hard pressed with you since you are

missing basic fucking cues

and it is dumb to push some1 who will not be around.

hey morph! what happened to that mosy case? decided not to bus?

Oh for fuck's sake. Diplomatic relations have broken down I see. Bring nacho out to the DMZ, the guys are gonna have to talk this one out instead.

where is your mosy case

Somewhere around 127.0.0.1; give or take a subnet or two, plus about 10 hours in the future.

[morph the cat]

where is your mosy case

Other stuff is more interesting to me at the moment, and believe it or not I don't live and breath to meet your every wish and expectation.

We'll post it when we post it unless working through it actually changes our minds about him.

[morph the cat]

You guys should seriously discuss 50 Shades while you're at it, and get back to me. Part of me feels like I could be tunneling, but I dunno.

We have. If our read wasn't town, I sure as hell wouldn't be talking to her like this. I'd flip her the bird and move on instead of causing all this drama to go off.

[morph the cat]

ffery, mollie:

It's happening again. Do what we did in Space Mafia. Immediately, before it gets any worse than it already is.

Desp gets it. Desp let's just sideline the ladies and you-me-nacho chillax and solve this shit, hmm?

[morph the cat]

Ffery is dead, talk to me instead.

She's still emo after the shitstorm that was space; not to mention some IRL shit that I don't know if she's talked to you about.

[morph the cat]

Once again, our "mossy" case will come when and if we decide to place our vote there, and not before it.

[morph the cat]

hey morph! what happened to that mosy case? decided not to bus?

And this is hardly "trying to discern our alignment" so move on.

[morph the cat]

ffery, mollie:

It's happening again. Do what we did in Space Mafia. Immediately, before it gets any worse than it already is.

Hi.

What's your TBone read?

[morph the cat]

You guys should seriously discuss 50 Shades while you're at it, and get back to me. Part of me feels like I could be tunneling, but I dunno.

We have. If our read wasn't town, I sure as hell wouldn't be talking to her like this. I'd flip her the bird and move on instead of causing all this drama to go off.

you would flip me the bird and move on if you thought we were scum?

I call bullshit.

Yes. Yes I would. I'd vote you, troll you some, then flip you the bird and ignore anything you posted to drum up support for your lynch. The fact that i'm not doing anything like that should be a sign to you.


Nothing good is going to come of you and ffery having yet another slapfight. You get to deal with me instead.

[morph the cat]

@ Cabd: I'm mostly voting Pecan to quell Majiffy's bloodlust long enough to get something done today. Can you help me with that while the three of us chat?

I can't really sheep jiffy in good faith given my read on pecan, but you can pretend it's there. You weren't in Paradox but mara and I thought he was obvscum and he ended up being the game-winning town PR.

Jiffy can have me vote when and if he convinces me that pecan is scum this game such that it over-rides my meta read, which ATM is stronger.

[morph the cat]

@ Cabd: I'm mostly voting Pecan to quell Majiffy's bloodlust long enough to get something done today. Can you help me with that while the three of us chat?

I can't really sheep jiffy in good faith given my read on pecan, but you can pretend it's there. You weren't in Paradox but mara and I thought he was obvscum and he ended up being the game-winning town PR.

Jiffy can have me vote when and if he convinces me that pecan is scum this game such that it over-rides my meta read, which ATM is stronger.

Desp was in Paradox.

@ Cabd: I'm mostly voting Pecan to quell Majiffy's bloodlust long enough to get something done today. Can you help me with that while the three of us chat?

Pedit: Scummy.

You guys should seriously discuss 50 Shades while you're at it, and get back to me. Part of me feels like I could be tunneling, but I dunno.

Shows he isn't interested in building consensus, because if he was he would know that you guys think 50 are town. The last bit also felt off--he's pretty obviously tunnelling, so if it was a joke it fell flat and was awkwardly placed, and if it's serious then it's not genuine.

I think I've played one game with him, and it was hydraing with Nacho. Town behavior always looks obvtown when you're scum, but I thought TBone, though way out of step with other players in some of his reads, looked town as fuck.

I keep thinking the disconnects are vintage-related and not alignment related.

[morph the cat]

Jiffy can have me vote when and if he convinces me that pecan is scum this game such that it over-rides my meta read, which ATM is stronger.

ISO me and Pecan together.

I've offered more than enough, and his rebuttal this entire time has been saying "yeah but I've already refuted that!" and then disappearing again.

Welcome to exactly how pecan plays as town. But you know what, I'll give you a fair shot and re-ISO you two.

[morph the cat]

The difference is,

I don't suck

.

Syr's hard boiled called. Something about "your example" and "burning inferno"

[morph the cat]

Hmm? My point is you're no mafia god. Nobody is.

Like I said, when I'm home tonight I'll re ISO you alongside pecan.

[morph the cat]

Ffery head has reads that are out of date and i'm sitting down and re-reading this game tonight and probably walling, site uptime provided.

And oh yeah I forgot about that. Iirc you kinda checked out until "HOLY FUCK EVERYONE IS ALIVE AND POSTING NOW WHAT" mode happened.

[morph the cat]

Once it became clear that Tierce's hydra was town and they weren't going to back down from their assbackward retarded interpretation of what happened in fake LYLO, yeah

I still hate myself for voting your side instead of peregrine's.

[morph the cat]

Majiffy, it looks like our scumreads align pretty well. You sure we can't wagon one of those instead?

Pedit: Once it became clear that Tierce's hydra was town and they weren't going to back down from their assbackward retarded interpretation of what happened in fake LYLO, yeah. I really hated that game. But your read is more correct.

Unvote
Vote: evilpacman18

Totes willing to sheep you there until I read up, and maybe even after I do.

VOTE: EPM18

[morph the cat]

like present a mosy case like you said you would

You keep pressing me for this after I've already told you i'm gonna make it tonight.... why, exactly?

[morph the cat]

I am fine dealing with you, I read you as scum. fery is the only thing that can possibly town your slot up.

unless you do something amazing

I take great glee in the fact that you can't read me properly this time then. I'm make sure to use that to my advantage next time I draw scum on you. The ffery boat has sailed, so I guess you can either vote me or wait for some batshit crazy gambit to top all gambits a la "nuetral survivor"

[morph the cat]

cabd what is your meta read based on?

Rage (morph was a serial killer, pecan was town) and Paradox (As Mc Maraca and Rift Adrift, both town, pecan town)

and weren't you ready to settle like 5 minutes ago?

Not sure what you mean by this?

[morph the cat]

Rage (morph was a serial killer, pecan was town) and Paradox (As Mc Maraca and Rift Adrift, both town, pecan town)

Rage: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29652
Paradox: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=29264

[morph the cat]

I'd quote some of the skype logs from mara and I during paradox where we were both convinced pecan (who replaced ghostlin) was scumfuckery scum; but that's not really allowed.

[morph the cat]

like present a mosy case like you said you would

You keep pressing me for this after I've already told you i'm gonna make it tonight.... why, exactly?

mebbe cos it looks like a scumread tossed out there that you are not interested in pursuing and I want you to pursue it

Then invent a time machone, or wait for me to get home. Either-or.

like right now you are voting epm...why exactly? after mosy whom you were supposed to be looking at fosed him?

Desperado's honey tastes a fuckton better than your vinegar right now, and he asked nicely.

[morph the cat]

Spoiler: Thoughts about Pecan by Cabd:

16 was a fairy average RVS entry to the game, that ignored the garruk wagon. When asked about it, his response in post 1 indicates he nullreads garruk instead.

In 22, manera votes him and questions pecan about his light defense of garruk. His response in 25 is fairly open ended as far as questions go.

41 is the kind of cheeky thing i'd expect to see from pecan (his reply to t-bone)

As a note, I kind of like this approach coming out of RVS because it really made people take sides and justify reasoning. His method of directly standing up to the player with the most momentum in the RVS stage strikes me as townish.

53 was great because he points out parama's logical failings, but doesn't take the easy way out by voting there. (I don't like that his vote sits on his RV though)

67 follows up with more direct parama engagement. And also Morph would like to note that the rumors of us being half zebra are false.

90 is town as fuck. All this entanglement that could easily lead to a porkens lynch or parama lynch once everyone cools off and gets out of the moment, and pecan is content to let it go.

139 is a great post pushing on fakemastin in a legitimate way.

I don't like the generic vote in 154, it seems rather convenient; and the listed reasons are usually reasons that cause mislynches, especially with players like generic.

161 townblocking is legit but I don't recall pecan townblocking (or attempting to) in rage or paradox, admittedly.

Pecan, is this something new of yours?

I do like the reasons for the townreads in this post though.

167 and 172 sound like town actively working on their current scum suspect. Pushing on generic for essentially asking non alignment relevant questions is often a question process that is hard to do naturally as scum.

226 is a genuine transparent effort to sort his nullblock into a larger group of townreads.

Like I'm just scrolling down his iso here and everything is sounding super duper town-sorty, so i'll skip these and move on to the part that jiffy has his murdercock (borrowed from kuribo) raging about.

staaaaaaarting with 1233.

1233 is the post that got jiffy all fired up really. It's pretty obvious that pecan didn't know the history between mollie and jiffy as players. [side note if anyone can disprove this, a link would be very appreciated] Actually that's the kind of post I'd make about jiffy if encountering him for the first time. (I recall disliking his ego driven play when meeting him during Xenoblade)

1315 is a pretty solid response to majiffy's posts. Being upset at a player for ignoring a flip is something I'd be pretty likely to do too. I like that pecan wasn't content to just fight with jiffy the entire time; he also branched out and discussed fish and tbone in ways that are consistent with the approach he's taken the game so far.

1372 is a pretty cabdtownish response to jiffy. I know i've said several times "being wrong does not a scum make"

The one post I don't like is 1408.

You haven't proven me of lying, you can't, you've only shown an ability to make foregone conclusions and try to push them with charisma alone.

rubs me entirely the wrong way. (I did get a good chuckle of him using "does not a scum case make"~

At this point he pretty much goes VLA and then we're current.

So yeah, I'm leaning town even independent of meta and pretty much my general statement here is "Jiffy hurting your ego doesn't make him scum"

[morph the cat]

@TBone,

I've been looking over our previous game trying to see if I'm remembering your play there well enough to draw comparisons. And in a broadbrush way I feel like there are points of correspondence, but there are also some things that are different.

Your attitude toward meta and meta cases seems to have changed somewhat since that game.

You seemed to have more conviction about your reads in that game too.

I can see some reasons why the latter would happen organically, but I'd like to hear your thoughts about what makes your play in this game different.

[morph the cat]

I don't think I've discussed meta much, if at all. My stance on meta though is the same as always. It has very little, if any merit. I may reference a past game once in awhile, but as far as it being a useful scumhunting tool, you know I don't think it is.

B) I talked a bit about how I felt I played in that last game, so I am adjusting it. Whether you like those adjustments or not is up to you. I played pretty terribly. The best move I made that game was getting myself mislynched. So as far as my play being different, I'm trying albeit not so successfully, to not tunnel as much as I did on ETL. Which is why I keep going "hey so and so, tell me about my scumreads" but then no one is giving me what I need so...yea I'm tunneling a bit on 50 Shades and Majiffy here. I've been doing what I can to determine other player's alignments. So I don't think my conviction about my reads have changed, just how much I've been screaming about it has. I am trying hard to take all forms of arguing out of my play, which if you recall is why I refused to argue with ETL and only talked to him when he was working through things with me.

But again as far as meta I don't know what that'll tell you about my alignment. I'm doing my thing. I don't know what you're looking for exactly. I try to approach every game with the same mindset.

The amount of intensive meta analysis being tossed around in that game was pretty heavy given that it was a 9 player game. The proportion of meta-cases being built in this game is considerably lower, as well as it being lower (IMO anyway) in absolute terms.

I feel like you've reached out to me specifically and repeatedly since we replaced in to this game. I don't understand why. It seems like I disagree with you on several reads that you feel are key.

[morph the cat]

Not liking morph's responses to T-Bone

at all

.

What don't you like about them?

Then again, T-Bone's responses to Nachomollie don't fill me ith confidence either.

So what is this suggesting to you about our respective alignments?

like right now you are voting epm...why exactly? after mosy whom you were supposed to be looking at fosed him?

morph obviously thinks that everyone I call scum is a buddy I'm bussing. For that matter, mollie seems to think that way, too.

Hmm...[/quote]

I'm not thinking much about associative stuff until I see a scum flip. Right now, I'm trying to figure out which is my strongest scum read. You're not doing a lot to make me feel better about you while I go through that process. It's like you totally missed that I've been scumreading you since not long after we replaced in. You've exhorted me to vote with you multiple times. Finally when there are a few pages worth of posts with Mollie badgering us for an analysis on you, NOW you seem to suddenly notice what we think of your alignment

Some scum pay a lot of attention to thread details. Some don't.

I'm wondering where you fall on that continuum and if this is alignment indicative either way.

Porkens/EPM/Paschendale/morph/T-Bone/Generic for scumteam? Probably not 6 scum, but I think if we lynch from this group we'll hit a lot of them.

I'll be really surprised if there are more than 2 scum max in that list.

[morph the cat]

I don't think I've discussed meta much, if at all. My stance on meta though is the same as always. It has very little, if any merit. I may reference a past game once in awhile, but as far as it being a useful scumhunting tool, you know I don't think it is.

B) I talked a bit about how I felt I played in that last game, so I am adjusting it. Whether you like those adjustments or not is up to you. I played pretty terribly. The best move I made that game was getting myself mislynched. So as far as my play being different, I'm trying albeit not so successfully, to not tunnel as much as I did on ETL. Which is why I keep going "hey so and so, tell me about my scumreads"

but then no one is giving me what I need so...yea I'm tunneling a bit on 50 Shades and Majiffy here.

I've been doing what I can to determine other player's alignments. So I don't think my conviction about my reads have changed, just how much I've been screaming about it has. I am trying hard to take all forms of arguing out of my play, which if you recall is why I refused to argue with ETL and only talked to him when he was working through things with me.

But again as far as meta I don't know what that'll tell you about my alignment. I'm doing my thing. I don't know what you're looking for exactly. I try to approach every game with the same mindset.

Re the bolded, what is it that you need from other players about them that you're not getting?

[morph the cat]

Spoiler: Mess of thoughts that you won't find helpful (1-30)

Garruk looks a bit try-hard on page 1.

Oh wow pecan might actually be scum. (Still page 1) Parama knows what's up.

Ok, is pecan always like this? Because I could see this being a playstyle thing, but right now my mind's flashing SCUMSCUMSCUM and as much as I think I should ignore it, I can't help but feel SCUMSCUMSCUM so that's probably what it'll be.

I probably should stop posting like this since it's just page 1, but I'm tired and this helps, so we'll see!

Oh T-Bone's great. I don't want to lynch him for a while regardless of his alignment.

Page 2! I don't really agree with Parama's reasoning for Garruk being scum.

Ok Pasch is just arguing for the sake of arguing now.

Garruk was looking ok for a while (a post) but they're back to being scummy!

Page 3! (I think I'll need to stop doing this)

I could see Garruk being a townread, but everything just feels really forced right now (and no, I'm not on Page 3 anymore).

Ooo, I like Porkens too.

Prana townreading Spyrex at 91 is a bit

I'll decide on MoS later, but he is way too nitpicky.

I like Pie's scumread on Parama in 126. It's so

alternative

, but I really don't think Parama should be the slam-dunk townread that people seem to be claiming at this point.

But is Pie going to try and change people's minds about Parama? That is the question!

147 from Generic feels as if he cares too much about Desp's opinion of him, but I kind of liked him before this...

Ok Generic is good again.

Oh good notscience is probably town.

Oh, maybe Pecan is town. :O

Pasch has become concerning. 175

So I've always felt quite meh about Minnesota, but now I'm joining others in thinking they could be scum. (Page 9, but more of a general feeling than a particular post).

I am wondering why this Pasch wagon didn't result in a lynch though. I would probably be voting him here.

Porkens not providing any reasoning for a townread on Pasch in 227 is quite alarming.

Formerfish is scummy. Hmm, it seems my opinion is vastly different from others here. I'll reconsider it later.

Generic's response to the fake daykill is strange, as it was kind of obviously fake? (I thought so anyway...)

Porkens' stance on Pasch still seems like the typical scum reaction to a Day 1 town wagon, but he's not too bad otherwise.

Note: Q for Pasch from 409.

Oh no, I can't not have Generic as a scumread now.

Oh Generic you're making me feel all conflicted!! Whyyy?

And Generic goes back to a scumread (I have a feeling that this will go back and forth a few times, so if you're actually bothering to read this, I sincerely apologise).

*Porkens 528

Ok I am just going to spam all my messy messy musings on Generic later.

Now the site's just being annoying.

Caled doesn't seem to care that 50 shades is generally a townread (578). What is with that kind of thing and players this game?

Q for Spyrex from 613

~~

Surface reads at the moment (based on first 30 pages) are looking something like...

Varying strengths of townread:

Majiffy
50 shades of purple
Desperado
Formerfish
PecanPie
M45T1n
notscience

Uhhhh...?:

Morph/Prana
T-Bone
caledfwitch
Paschendale
Garruk
Evilpacman
Porkens
Spyrex

Favoured scumreads:

Agent Minnesota (the one I'm most happy with right now)
Generic (this is ignoring arguments from players that have played with him previously so I'm not so confident in it)

I'm hoping to sort out all the Uhhhh as I finish my read or in ISOs afterwards. Proper reasoning for the reads (or at least the scumreads) in easy-to-read format will eventually be here as well. I'm really sorry for taking so long to get this done and Christmas is likely to result in further delays, but I'll try and read more now and during any other free time I have.

Based on your read of the first 30 pages, what is the basis for your read of Majiffy's slot?

Hi, btw.

[morph the cat]

@ morph

fery mebbe you will understand this, but in every single game that maenara and I have played together she always enters with some super bitchy comment to me every single 1 except for 1 time and that was when she was scum. she very obviously was trying not to make waves. if you are town plz help lynch that thing unless you think we can get a wagon going on mosy.

I do understand this. Please stop rushing us. Maenera/Micc/now-DV is next on our list to review and then MoS. The research is a two-head process. This game I'm not doing all the research work because Cabd has a different and awesome skill set and we want to apply both. And that means his availability matters.

I don't understand why Nacho pushed back on our Maenera read shortly after we joined the game given your meta experience with her. What was that about?