Event Card Mafia (Game Over)

[AGar]

VOTE: Papa Zito

For old time's sake or something.

[AGar]

VOTE: ActionDan

I voted for action dan.

You're scummy as shit ainchu. IGMEOU OMGUS WIFOM.

[AGar]

The dice chose, not me.
OMGUS
VOTE: ARONIS

Really? I would've chosen something beneficial to the town, IF I had been given the opportunity. And OMGUSmvoting is scummy.

Die, scum, die.

Wait wait wait.

You do realize the DICE ROLL chose the event card for tomorrow?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis

Scum or an idiot. Win/win.

[AGar]

You can only lynch me Day 1 if I am not doing shit.

I am doing shit.

Ergo, you can't lynch me Day 1.

[AGar]

wow uh did I just have a stroke

"Let's test that theory

VOTE: AGar"

nobutrly

[AGar]

I keep typing things

but then you guys type things

and being lazy I don't erase I just type more things

Isn't typing more things just less lazy?

[AGar]

Erm, Zoraster alternates between two colors when doing votecounts. Purple name only means that they are an even number on the wagon.

Agar, why would Aronis's alignment have any affect on how able to read the OP he is?

Because I don't think it was a misreading of the OP. I believe it was a weak attempt to get others riled up about something if they didn't read the OP. The whole sequence is shitty and scummy. Vote is srs bznz.

[AGar]

Can someone tell me if qwints is literally saying that scum

purposefully stop wagons from forming D1

and that's why he voted Juls

Yep. Yep he did.

Then again, Juls seems to think the crux of the Aronis wagon is self-voting? Which is equally as dumb.

[AGar]

either you're pretending like you read and you didn't -or- you're misrepping Juls on purpose

pick one

Looked over the last two pages. Aronis looks pretty scummy.

UNVOTE: Prof Fridays

VOTE: Aronis

Looked over the last two pages. Aronis looks pretty scummy.

UNVOTE: Prof Fridays

VOTE: Aronis

Aronis (which my ipad will inevitably auto correct to Adonis and I pre apologize) is dumb for the self vote but you are bandwagoning my friend.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tony PF

Juls is voting Tony because he's voting for someone who self-voted. Tony never said "Hey, Aronis self voted, scum." There was plenty given prior to Aronis's self-vote, and my general belief would be when someone says "Looked over the last few pages, X looks scummy." is that it includes the information offered. Instead Juls jumps to "You're voting for someone because they self-voted, you're scum who's looking for easy bandwagonning!"

Tell me how I wouldn't interpret that sequence of events as Juls thinking the crux of the wagon is Aronis's self-vote.

@Agar - No, you voted Aronis because he thought mnemonic picked the card and thus "riled" everyone up. I voted you because I believe that is what YOU are doing. qwints mentioned the self-vote. Tony was the one who voted because of the self vote. Get your facts straight scum-monkey.

X

Let's try this again.
My reasoning:

Erm, Zoraster alternates between two colors when doing votecounts. Purple name only means that they are an even number on the wagon.

Agar, why would Aronis's alignment have any affect on how able to read the OP he is?

Because I don't think it was a misreading of the OP. I believe it was a weak attempt to get others riled up about something if they didn't read the OP. The whole sequence is shitty and scummy. Vote is srs bznz.

Tony's Vote:

Looked over the last two pages. Aronis looks pretty scummy.

UNVOTE: Prof Fridays

VOTE: Aronis

NOWHERE in that post does Tony mention the self-vote.

Looked over the last two pages. Aronis looks pretty scummy.

UNVOTE: Prof Fridays

VOTE: Aronis

Aronis (which my ipad will inevitably auto correct to Adonis and I pre apologize) is dumb for the self vote but you are bandwagoning my friend.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tony PF

Why even mention the self-vote if it has nothing to do with your reasoning for voting Tony? Unless you think self-voting is a town tell, in which case let me help you out.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AGar

qwints votes you in #103, for voting someone for voting a self voter. Which is the same inference I made off of your post voting Tony.

Then you shift your vote to me, for reasons that amount to "You have no grasp on how the English language works and are incapable of reading comprehension."

Now, you can kindly

fuck off

put your vote on a scumbag like Aronis, we can move past this and be happy when he flips scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis

[AGar]

SHE LITERALLY EXPLAINED WHY SHE THOUGHT SELF VOTING WAS VOTEWORTHY ON THE LAST FUCKING PAGE PLEASE OPEN YOUR EYELIDS

No, she didn't.

I voted Tony for bandwagonnnnning. qwints brought up the self-vote by Aronis which he said was the reason Tony voted for Aronis. I don't really give a shit about the reason for the Aronis wagon, what I cared about was Tony bandwagonnning. You're still a scum-monkey and need to die.

You don't give a shit for the reasoning for the Aronis wagon.
You're voting me for starting the Aronis wagon.

That's all I need to see here.

[AGar]

If Aronis flips town, what do we learn?
If Aronis flips scum, what do we learn?

If he flips town we now have people who voted him on a wagon and a flip with which to associate reasons.
If he flips scum, we have a dead scumbag, we learn there are 4 scum left alive and we have people who voted him and people who avoided voting him.

Seems like we get good information to me.

[AGar]

Zito, Short version: 1: You're not funny.

DIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIE

[AGar]

The DIEDIE post sure felt like a bus too.

Oh. Dear. God.

Please tell me you aren't serious.

ARONIS

Y U NO UNVOTE

Why should I?

You are the worst kind of person.

Do you plan on participating at all? Because I don't plan on moving my vote until I see something from you that compels me to do so.

Is hopping on the Aronis train really the best course of action here? I suppose we don't have much to go off of, but the scum suspicions tossed around don't seem to include Aronis?

Are you... reading the game? Like, there's a wagon on Aronis. People are voting him. For reasons that vary. That's literally the definition of suspicions.

farside is either not reading Oversoul's posts or I don't know what the other option would be because I see the exact opposite of everything she points out in #231. DeathNote sheeping that vote makes me concerned. Oversoul's defense in 247 isn't inspiring though. Guh.

Talah is attempting to meta people off of one game played. Lord help us all.

Also, just throwing this out there: Regarding the Geography event, (barring other factors), ideally, would it be more beneficial to lynch someone in Rooms 2-6? I feel like having a smaller room population would be ideal for validating those in that room (assuming such validation is possible). Does that make sense? Perhaps I'm not considering some things.

Rooms affect nothing other than night actions as far as I've read. What would we get from limiting our lynch pool to those 5 rooms?

Badbadbadbadbad.

[AGar]

No really. You can't meta people off of one game. That's what I'm getting at. And now twice I've seen you make references to one game for people and make snap-judgments of some form about that. So if you have more, please tell me (this is meant with 100% sincerity, not sarcastic like I usually aim to be) because I saw you are a good player in Gundam, but I don't like meta to begin with and then when someone does it in the worst way possible it makes me really cringe and worried.

[AGar]

We're not going to see eye to eye here so I'm just going to move forward with the game. We have an inherent disagreement on what constitutes meta.

[AGar]

We're not going to see eye to eye here so I'm just going to move forward with the game. We have an inherent disagreement on what constitutes meta.

Yeah well sorry, I've been accused of meta arguments elsewhere and I think I have a very clear-cut differentiation between META which is looking for overall patterns in a person's town and scum play over a large number of games, and my own tendency to think I have better odds of reading a person if I've played with them before. So I'd tend to take a more wait-and-see approach with folks I have played with.

..ANYway, since meta apparently irritates you, I wonder if you care to comment on TiP's use of SELF-META applying it to me to produce a scumread which he's apparently 100% confident of. Surely that's something you should have been all over given your opinion on meta?

I'm generally trying to discern whether TiP is an idiot or scum at this point. He's done some things that ping me as scummy as shit, but some that also ping me as just really dumb. I'd lean towards scum for both trying to apply his meta to someone else and a comment he recently made suggesting someone should read his posts because he just beat them as scum. That's the kind of cockiness that comes about when you're scum again and you think you can just cruise.

I could vote him if a wagon gained traction, but I'm much more pleased with voting Aronis right now.

ARONIS

Y U NO UNVOTE

Why should I?

Aronis, why are you still self-voting?

Didn't realize that. Fixed.

Scumclaim much?

@Agar post 259 What about Oversoul do you see any scum hunting or thought process. Why if he thought Aronis was scum did he wait to vote?

What post do you find scum hunting from Oversoul that gives views of who he things is scum?

117 - Initial reads. Comments on a wagon.
120 - Comments on someone's analysis re: Talah.
189 - Queries re: PZ's no lynch idea as to what "Maximum Effect" would be?

You're trying to propagate a case that Oversoul has been "doing nothing" so far when:

A) It's patently false. He's not stellar superhelpful obvtown but you tell me when you find a large where every town player acts that way and I'll tell you you're lying.
B) The game has been open for a bit over 72 hours now. Trying to peg someone as scum because they haven't given you an entire list of their reads when other players have done less or worse. Again. 72 hours. There have been games I've played where myself or other players haven't had concrete reads for an entire first day phase. It happens.

Your case sucks.

Also, Oversoul's reaction in 300 was town as shit.

Aronis makes an actual move, and I don't like oversoul's reaction to this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oversoul

You scum, brah?

[AGar]

My thoughts on talah are already well known

Well if you could take the time to explain why you think that applying something you've done as cult leader to me is in any way indicative of my alignment, that might be nice.

Because at the moment I just think you're manufacturing reads and trying to avoid attention.

Why are you getting so defensive over this?
And taking it so personally that you had to omgus me with the worst of reasons?

So far, TIP, all I see you doing is the exact thing you quoted in your self-meta case that you tried to pin on Talah.

You cheeky scumfuck you.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TheIrishPope

[AGar]

Searching for replacements farside and Tony

Make Pidgeon play

^ This was intended to be a PM.

Anyway

Unvote; Vote: AGar

[AGar]

My thoughts on talah are already well known

Explain them for me?

I might post more on TIP later, idk.

That she's obviously scum with P5?
It's obvious newb scum play, and when Tony PF was here he made his slot obviously scum too.
All of you are arguing with the guy who self hammered in WNA5 to peg the two scum in his first post.
I know what I'm talking about.

Talah is not town.

Thanks for ignoring what I pointed out you cheeky scumfuck, you.

[AGar]

metaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Let's pretend that game didn't happen, and you looked solely at his play this game on its own merits. In particular, his last two votes. What do you think of his alignment now?

why would i pretend i know nothing about a player when i do? if you're asking me to discard everything i know about a player and make decisions about whether or not to lynch them on the basis of their play in an individual game, i'd probably be lynching players like PV and Aronis D1 of every game i play.

Cuz meta is bad, mmkay.

Also, you act like that would be a bad thing.

We're not going to see eye to eye here so I'm just going to move forward with the game. We have an inherent disagreement on what constitutes meta.

Yeah well sorry, I've been accused of meta arguments elsewhere and I think I have a very clear-cut differentiation between META which is looking for overall patterns in a person's town and scum play over a large number of games, and my own tendency to think I have better odds of reading a person if I've played with them before. So I'd tend to take a more wait-and-see approach with folks I have played with.

..ANYway, since meta apparently irritates you, I wonder if you care to comment on TiP's use of SELF-META applying it to me to produce a scumread which he's apparently 100% confident of. Surely that's something you should have been all over given your opinion on meta?

I'm generally trying to discern whether TiP is an idiot or scum at this point. He's done some things that ping me as scummy as shit, but some that also ping me as just really dumb.

I'd lean towards scum for both trying to apply his meta to someone else

and a comment he recently made suggesting someone should read his posts because he just beat them as scum. That's the kind of cockiness that comes about when you're scum again and you think you can just cruise.

why is the bold scummy? I have seen more players since I returned to mafia use the bold then not.

Because you are not me and I am not you, for a loose example. The way I play my scumgame is not going to be the way you play your scumgame is not going to be the way that Zito plays his scumgame. Same goes for town games. Meta is generally terrible because self-awareness shits all over it as a concept. Trying to apply your own meta to someone else is worse because of a multitude of reasons, but most notably selective bias. Note how TIP gave one game where he was a cult leader (which is not scum and has a different MO when they play unless you strip down their goals to strictly "survive", but that is foolish) and said "Well Talah is doing this and I was an anti-town player when I did this so Talah must be mafia!" That is patently false because Talah may not play the same way TIP plays, and unless TIP has played multiple games with Talah to have an strong basis for pointing to that particular comparison (whether it's that this is a departure from Talah's general method of approaching the game or if this particular game matches a pattern of behavior for Talah's scumgame), it holds no water.

If I went by TIP's line of thinking, I would only ever lynch people who were strongly pushing for dead scum because that's how I play scum - I bus the ever living fuck out of my partners into oblivion and rely on my ability to create a strong day presence after the fact to ride into LYLO situations where I either control the outcome of the lynch because I've got two players suspicious of each other, OR I feel confident enough in whoever I brought to LYLO with me that I believe I can win that situation roughly 90% of the time.

You see how that falls apart pretty quickly? I'd fail miserably if I even tried to apply that meta once to another player. Not to mention, I'm aware of that exact fact and have intentionally deviated from it as scum.

People agree with me.
And I know I'm right anyway.

You are fucking insufferable. I can't wait to lynch your scummy ass, scumfuck.

[AGar]

I pretty much hate everything about this game right now. I feel like I need to be viciously intoxicated to actually comprehend all but a handful of the players' motivations.

You're all fucking terrible. "Asking questions to appear like he's scumhunting" is NOT A FUCKING SCUMTELL. IT'S ASKING QUESTIONS. TO SCUMHUNT. NOT APPEAR.

GOD.
FUCKING.
DAMMIT.
STOP.
BEING.
STUPID.

[AGar]

Also not sure why agar thinks tip's stubbornness is alignment tell.

I don't. I just find it personally annoying.

I handed you on a silver platter what I thought was a clear alignment tell with regards to TIP. If you can't be bothered to read it, then oh well.

[AGar]

also i would really like to lynch kublai khan if that ever becomes viable

Oh stop that. I stumbled on something here. Aronis is accusing me of trying to mislynch the same guy that he's voting for.

Vote: Aronis

I'm inclined to unvote after you just confirmed him as town. Now. Give legitimate reasons for voting me. And:

UNVOTE: Oversoul

...

....

Just wow.

[AGar]

PV's reads are in sync with mine, things I like for $100.

[AGar]

Venmar, sell me on qwints.

[AGar]

I'm not lynching Zito today. Just throwing that out there.

[AGar]

I'm not lynching Zito today. Just throwing that out there.

Besides TIP who would you like to see lynched and why?

Waiting on Venmar to sell me on qwints - based on how that goes, one of those two. DeltaWave. There's been a lot of uninspirational posting there.

[AGar]

Ok Venmar wins the "Who would AGar's theoretical vote be on among Venmar/qwints" contest.

[AGar]

In this post he is saying TIP is scummy because he is cocky and he just won a game as scum.

XX

This is like a fun little game with you where I get to read your posts then actually quote what I really said, not what you want people to think I said! I love it!

I'm generally trying to discern whether TiP is an idiot or scum at this point.

[1]

He's done some things that ping me as scummy as shit, but some that also ping me as just really dumb.

[2]

I'd lean towards scum for both trying to apply his meta to someone else and

[3]

a comment he recently made suggesting someone should read his posts because he just beat them as scum. That's the kind of cockiness that comes about when you're scum again and you think you can just cruise.

His cockiness was a small part of that equation. I made three points in that post. You took the one that would look worst alone and tried to parade it as the entire body of my post! Bravo! Nevermind the fact that I later touched on the true substance for that read in explicit detail later in the game!

P-Edit: Do you worry that maybe you just suck at reading people instead of that you're tunneling?

[AGar]

1) Is not a point at all
2) So scum apply their meta to someone else? How? I ignored that cause it's dumb
3) I commented on it.

You elaborated on the scum-meta part which I have already dismissed as dumb. And even in your elaboration you don't really explain why it is scummy to self-meta only why self-meta doesn't work.

My angle wasn't "Oh you didn't read my post poo poo." My angle was you completely ripped one piece of a post out of context and portrayed it as the whole post. You don't need to agree with my points - I don't give a shit if you in particular do because I doubt you have the clout to swing a lynch here without relying on drastic misrepresentations of facts - but I'm gonna call you on the carpet if you resort to bullshit to try and justify a pisspoor read on me.

And since you say I am picking and choosing, does that mean you think I am scum? tunneling? something else?

I just don't see how scum could be so horribly wrong about everything ever.

P-Edit: Do you worry that maybe you just suck at reading people instead of that you're tunneling?

Keeping it classy. I would expect no less from you. I probably do suck at reading people and am likely wrong on some, if not all, of my reads. But from my experience at Mafiascum, being good at reading people is not a prerequisite for playing and/or being town. At least I try and am willing to admit my flaws. I'm not really sure why you have to be a complete dick in the way you address me and everyone else but it certainly doesn't make me like you for town anymore so I will keep my read right where it is.

Keep letting emotions control your reads, champ.

[AGar]

BIG BALLS MOLLA APPEARS.

[AGar]

Yeah, no. I'm not voting for Reck today.

Seriously, if people don't want to see that TIP is scummy as it gets, lynch me so I don't have to continue on in this game because it's maddening as fuck to see him so blatantly scummy and this feels like a repeat of uPick of Ice and Fire where the town fucking derped an easy win away with really stupid plays.

[AGar]

Question to anyone reading this: do you have a town read on tip or talah? If so which one and why?

Talah. Partially gut, partially getting a solid ping of "Oh fuck this" out of frustration from him, and partially due to the multiple contrived attacks on him.

[AGar]

Based on noted suspicion and/or actual vote. Post number reference in parenthesis (tried to note the most recent suspicion-noted post)

Willing to vote (including bullet eaters):

[7] PapaZito - BrianSkies(678), Bulbazak(624), farside22(585), Juls(655), KingdomAces(720), Oversoul(711), talah(652)
[7] Aronis - BrianSkies(678), Bulbazak(624), farside22(585), KublaiKhan(469), PapaZito(582), qwints(656), zMuffinMan(696)
[7] Venmar - Agar(559), Aronis(515), BrianSkies(678), Iecerint(716), KingdomAces(720), qwints(656), zmuffinman(481?)
[6] talah - BrianSkies(678), Deltawave(426), Juls(655), PapaZito(582), TheIrishPope(647), Venmar(686)
[5] TheIrishPope - Agar(684), Bulbazak(628?), Iecerint(688), PeregrineV(583), talah(652)
[4] KingdomAces-BROseidon(420), Juls(655), Oversoul(710), PapaZito(582)
[4] ProfFriday - farside22(585), Juls(655), PapaZito(582), qwints(586)
[4] Deltawave - Agar(554), BrianSkies(678), PapaZito(582), qwints(586)
[4] ActionDan-Oversoul(710), PeregrineV(583), qwints(586), talah(652)
[3] mnemonicdevice - ActionDan(31), BrianSkies(678), KingdomAces(720)
[3] Deathnote-farside22(585), Papazito(582), PeregrineV(583)
[3] BBMolla-farside22(585), PeregrineV(583), qwints(586)
[2] XReckonerX-Oversoul(717), PeregrineV(670)
[2] KublaiKhan-Iecerint(716), PeregrineV(583)
[1] Brian Skies - Aronis(386)
[1] zmuffinman-Bulbazak(628)
[1] qwints-farside(585)
[1] Agar - Juls(655)
[1] PeregrineV -Juls(655)
[1] BROSeidon -talah(652)

Can't tell who they would be willing to lynch (has not voiced suspicion at all or since post 300+):

BBMolla
DeathNote
mnemonicdevice
ProfFridays
XReckonerX

I did the best I could. If I missed something just point it out. We should probably narrow our pool down to those who have 5-7 people leaning their way and ignore the rest for the rest of the day. Considering we need 13 to lynch we are WAY short here.

Hello smokescreening.

[AGar]

I've taken my stand. Now we need a lynch. I am trying to get us pointed in a consensus.

"We need to lynch someone" isn't a stand.

[AGar]

I'd like AGar/Bulba/far side to express interest in a viable lynch for today.

I'll vote Venmar if we need a vote to push the wagon Sunday. I've said as much in 559, although looking back it admittedly wasn't the clearest of clear things. But yeah. I'm going to be around all weekend, so I can keep an eye on the time and vote when it needs to happen.

My preference is still on TIP. I'm not going to waste my time with a case, however, since no one even fucking comments on what I put out there at the moment. I'll let that track run its course, and I'll be the one laughing at the end.

Otherwise I'm keen to see a flip and hopefully get some of the less engaged players involved in Day 2.

[AGar]

I've taken my stand. Now we need a lynch. I am trying to get us pointed in a consensus.

"We need to lynch someone" isn't a stand.

Stop taking her posts out of context.

Hop off bruh.

[AGar]

I would have an introduction here, but I really don't know what to say. I don't know if I've ever had an accurate scumread, so to make up for that my entire gameplay style revolves around finding townreads and PoE'ing from there. Which makes me completely useless until the game is pretty much over anyway.

I last updated it April 8th. This game started signups on April 9th. I have been pushed for this exact same reason pretty much in every single game I play, so I'm not going to bother saying any more than this this time around.

Vig the ever living daylights out of this.

Kthxbai.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: qwints

Really suspect we're going to get a D1 NL at this point.

[AGar]

Someone please tell me the motivation for townQwints to do what he does in #1040.

Then, when you can't possibly come up with any manor in which to fathom town doing that, proceed to move your vote to qwints.

Boom.

[AGar]

VOTE: TheIrishPope

Still want this dead.
Still don't want most of the others being pushed dead.
Need to read KA at some point to see what all the fuss is about, being that I've generally just ignored his posts.

@Talah

Does your visit to Venmar change your feelings about his claim at all? (I'm going to pick a bit here, just trying to figure things out and you were seemingly skeptical yesterday.)

[AGar]

But why would scum roleblock Talah?

That Talah claimed a confirmable role is a pretty good reason to start.

[AGar]

These votes on me are fucking stupid, and anyone with half a brain who is reading my posts should know that I am not a roleblocker because I fucking alluded to what I am earlier this game, along with my initial action. No, I'm not pointing it out for you. Go back, re-read my posts, find the little nugget, then shut up and unvote me because this you're all being fucking stupid right now.

[AGar]

Also, Venmar and Oversoul were in the same room. Talah would receive no result from tracking Venmar anyways. Then Iece was as far away as you can possibly get from Talah, and Talah only went 1 room over to track Venmar, so Iece wouldn't receive a result either if he is any type of follower-style role.

There. Problem solved. Enough talk about fucking roleblockers for no absolute reason.

[AGar]

Follower type roles will get a result if they follow someone who is taking the same or longer period of time, but will return no result if they follow someone before that. For example, I am a tracker 1 room from Vi. Vi is a vigilante and kills a target in his own room. I will NOT get a result. However, if Vi were targeting someone in my room (1 room away as well), I WILL get a result.

[AGar]

AKA, you're fucking lying.

[AGar]

Venmar to Oversoul = 0
Talah to Venmar = 1
Iecerint to Talah = 3

According to the information we were ALL given, you would not receive a result. Now, you're telling me that Zoraster puts one thing out to the public and then tells you another?

NOT BUYING IT.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Iecerint

[AGar]

UNVOTE:

Sorry Iec, I was on a bit of an emotional rampage there, you happened to get caught in the crossfire.

@Talah

The paragraph I quoted was only in reference to follower type roles. No clue about how it works with Kills/Protects/etc, nor am I inclined to try and figure it out seeing as it's not an impact on our game going forward.

[AGar]

@Talah

The paragraph I quoted was only in reference to follower type roles. No clue about how it works with Kills/Protects/etc, nor am I inclined to try and figure it out seeing as it's not an impact on our game going forward.

AGar, if you look at the Day 1 Refresher post that I quoted, you'll see that it works the same way for at least kills and protects.

Only relevance being WIFOM related to whether scum would risk targeting someone farther away.

Which is pretty weak in that the doctor is more nerfed.

[AGar]

WELP. Fail. Lemme try that again.

@Talah

The paragraph I quoted was only in reference to follower type roles. No clue about how it works with Kills/Protects/etc, nor am I inclined to try and figure it out seeing as it's not an impact on our game going forward.

AGar, if you look at the Day 1 Refresher post that I quoted, you'll see that it works the same way for at least kills and protects.

Only relevance being WIFOM related to whether scum would risk targeting someone farther away.

Which is pretty weak in that the doctor is more nerfed.

Fair enough. The geography mechanic gave me a massive headache and I really didn't let it factor into anything personally. Then I was being accused of being a RB and went into a rage and flew off the handle. Now I'm back from the gym and much much calmer.

---

TIP's "low-hanging fruit" comment is fucking scummy, btw. It's basically saying "Yeah, I'm playing shitty and scummy as fuck, but I'm gonna self-deprecate in order to deflect any possible attention from that and allow myself to continue acting in an anti-town manner."

More people should be voting to lynch the ever living daylights outta that.

[AGar]

Because I completely forgot to revote after unvoting Iec.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

[AGar]

Both BBMolla and KindgomAces were two rooms away from me. The probability of my killing either of them is pretty damn slim, so I don't see why you would place your vote on me.

5 man scumteam. You personally don't have to carry out the kill.

This is scummy.

[AGar]

I'm vt and I'm gonna get to this game this weekend (today or tomorrow)
I'm claiming to not waste time

Still scummy.

5 man scumteam. You personally don't have to carry out the kill.

This is scummy

stupid, not scummy

This is fair, in that I could theoretically be on the scum team without personally carrying out the kill. On the other hand, when we're at a point when a good amount of people haven't really gotten any solid scum-reads, it seems like you might as well take what information you can get, that being the victims and the Geography rooms.

No, because as we've seen already, it's fucking pointless because

no one understands how it fucking worked.

I'd much rather stick to traditional scumhunting, and that you want to deflect attention off of yourself while providing no insight on to

who

would be a viable choice given the limitations of the mechanic is setting off all sorts of alarms and bells.

So I'm a tracker. I successfully tracked iecerint to talah but I don't believe iecerint and talah both had the option to full out track n1.

VOTE: iecerint

And if one is scum it's this one.

No, nope, nah and negative.

You're scum brah.

This is interesting I need agar in here to ask.
@agar: didn't you point out a track would have null results if further away?

Yes it should.

Gonna try and map this out here.

Night 1 by claims

- Venmar targets Oversoul. Oversoul is in the same room as Venmar so this has a distance of 0.
- Talah tracks Venmar. Talah is one room away from Venmar, so this has a distance of 1. 1 > 0, so Talah gets a "null" result/no result.
- Iecerint tracks Talah. Iecerint is 3 rooms away from Talah. 3 > 1, so Iecerint gets a "null" result/no result.
- ActionDan tracks Iecerint. ActionDan is in the same room as Iecerint, so the distance is 0. 0 < 3, so ActionDan gets a result.

It's entirely possible (and would be very poor design otherwise) that Iecerint still visited Talah, and just because of the decay got no result. No one has specifically asked Zor if your action still carries out, just if you get a result. Those are two different things. If you track a Ninja, you're not going to get a result, for example, but you still "tracked" him. That's the point - it's a false positive to weaken the role.

[AGar]

Agar: why do you think ad is scum?
He claimed a track on a player in the room and talked about the result.

Because I think scum are seeing an a way to take advantage of the confusion surrounding this mechanic, honestly. What has 95% of Day 2 focused on? The geography mechanic. What have we truly gleaned from all of it? Nothing, really. We know we had a bunch of useless tracks happen last night. Great.

But now AD wants to come in after the dust has settled and we maaaaybe could get back to real scumhunting and go "No, I'm a tracker, too! Iec went to Talah last night." He relies on sheer speculation that there's no possible way that Iece and Talah could both have full tracks last night, because he's a tracker (by the timing of claims, he would be my first lynch because his claim came unprovoked and was the one that crowded the group), and there couldn't possibly be 3 tracks last night! Scum tracker is a fairly common power that I've seen/used in games before. Talah and Iec both hinted at limitations to their tracks, either a single shot or some time based entity. AD is claiming no such restrictions.

Combine that with his pretty much useless Day 1 posting and I'm confident in calling him scum.

[AGar]

When this game is over I am going to write a big long wordy mastin-esque MD thread about how mechanical changes are inherently scumsided because all the town does is try and figure something out with limited information (we're not the mod, we don't know every intracacy) and waste time and not scumhunt. And I

LIKE

mechanical changes because they're fun and a new twist and a challenge but god damn every game anymore that has a change to it.

[AGar]

@agar: 2 claim limited track and you think both are more plausible as town then a full tracker ?
I'm a bit confused on why.

It's not "limited trackers are more plausible then a full tracker."

It's the way he came in and put his claim out there. It was just really really awkward, like a scum tracker going "Maybe I can get a ML out of this."

[AGar]

So AD tracks Iec who admits to targeting the person who AD says he tracked to. I think all are telling the truth but who's to say scum don't have a tracker?

Do you think scum would have a full-tracker or a limited-tracker (both limited players implied JoaT-esque roles)?

[AGar]

Don't know. Is AD claiming full tracker?

That was the general impression I got from his post. He said "I'm a tracker."

[AGar]

Oh. My. God.

Are we really going to only vote people who were in the same room as the NK targets today? Are we really going to be this stupid?

Somebody dayvig me if that's the case please. Please for the love of god do it.

[AGar]

If we lynch anyone from the 3 tracker claims, it HAS to be ActionDan.

Has to.

[AGar]

I

Basically I am having a hard time understanding anyone thinking that I am anything but obvtown, but at least 2 people seem to think that.

My interpretation: "Basically, I am having a hard time understanding why i am not obvtown. I did everything it says to do in this manual for scumz. I am starting to get worried that town is starting to catch on though."

This is the most scummy post I've seen in a while.

Not certain enough to jump on the bandwagon though, don't want a rapid lynch to happen.

Bullets for this guy, please. I'd rather use the noose on TIP, then AD.

[AGar]

ActionDan
DeathNote
DeltaWave
mnemonicdevice
Prof Fridays
talah
TheIrishPope

Not in ease of picking order because that's reaaaaally subjective

This is so fake. You put Talah, the person you've been tunneling for most of the game, as low hanging fruit. Seriously?!

Can you please vote him then? Please?

[AGar]

If geography wasnt there ice would be nearly confirmed scum but

it is there so im not sure

Do explain how this logic works? I want to laugh at you when you're hilariously wrong.

Sounds like icerink is scum to me.

VOTE: Icerink

No, no you're an idiot.

Okay.

TIP isn't going to be lynched today

We are not going to be lynching people just because of where they were in a room alone, that's stupid and it's like shooting in the dark, it could be anyone regardless of your townreads.

Not why we're lynching TIP. Try again. Read the game, maybe? At this point, you're only alive because you claimed 2x BP Bodyguard. That's literally the only reason you didn't get hammered yesterday, which is really unfortunate, honestly. So try and keep up.

[AGar]

That there are still four votes on Iec is really dumb. We should stop having four votes on Iec.

[AGar]

We're not going to see eye to eye here so I'm just going to move forward with the game. We have an inherent disagreement on what constitutes meta.

Yeah well sorry, I've been accused of meta arguments elsewhere and I think I have a very clear-cut differentiation between META which is looking for overall patterns in a person's town and scum play over a large number of games, and my own tendency to think I have better odds of reading a person if I've played with them before. So I'd tend to take a more wait-and-see approach with folks I have played with.

..ANYway, since meta apparently irritates you, I wonder if you care to comment on TiP's use of SELF-META applying it to me to produce a scumread which he's apparently 100% confident of. Surely that's something you should have been all over given your opinion on meta?

I'm generally trying to discern whether TiP is an idiot or scum at this point. He's done some things that ping me as scummy as shit, but some that also ping me as just really dumb. I'd lean towards scum for both trying to apply his meta to someone else and a comment he recently made suggesting someone should read his posts because he just beat them as scum. That's the kind of cockiness that comes about when you're scum again and you think you can just cruise.

I could vote him if a wagon gained traction, but I'm much more pleased with voting Aronis right now.

My thoughts on talah are already well known

Well if you could take the time to explain why you think that applying something you've done as cult leader to me is in any way indicative of my alignment, that might be nice.

Because at the moment I just think you're manufacturing reads and trying to avoid attention.

Why are you getting so defensive over this?
And taking it so personally that you had to omgus me with the worst of reasons?

So far, TIP, all I see you doing is the exact thing you quoted in your self-meta case that you tried to pin on Talah.

You cheeky scumfuck you.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TheIrishPope

We're not going to see eye to eye here so I'm just going to move forward with the game. We have an inherent disagreement on what constitutes meta.

Yeah well sorry, I've been accused of meta arguments elsewhere and I think I have a very clear-cut differentiation between META which is looking for overall patterns in a person's town and scum play over a large number of games, and my own tendency to think I have better odds of reading a person if I've played with them before. So I'd tend to take a more wait-and-see approach with folks I have played with.

..ANYway, since meta apparently irritates you, I wonder if you care to comment on TiP's use of SELF-META applying it to me to produce a scumread which he's apparently 100% confident of. Surely that's something you should have been all over given your opinion on meta?

I'm generally trying to discern whether TiP is an idiot or scum at this point. He's done some things that ping me as scummy as shit, but some that also ping me as just really dumb.

I'd lean towards scum for both trying to apply his meta to someone else

and a comment he recently made suggesting someone should read his posts because he just beat them as scum. That's the kind of cockiness that comes about when you're scum again and you think you can just cruise.

why is the bold scummy? I have seen more players since I returned to mafia use the bold then not.

Because you are not me and I am not you, for a loose example. The way I play my scumgame is not going to be the way you play your scumgame is not going to be the way that Zito plays his scumgame. Same goes for town games. Meta is generally terrible because self-awareness shits all over it as a concept. Trying to apply your own meta to someone else is worse because of a multitude of reasons, but most notably selective bias. Note how TIP gave one game where he was a cult leader (which is not scum and has a different MO when they play unless you strip down their goals to strictly "survive", but that is foolish) and said "Well Talah is doing this and I was an anti-town player when I did this so Talah must be mafia!" That is patently false because Talah may not play the same way TIP plays, and unless TIP has played multiple games with Talah to have an strong basis for pointing to that particular comparison (whether it's that this is a departure from Talah's general method of approaching the game or if this particular game matches a pattern of behavior for Talah's scumgame), it holds no water.

If I went by TIP's line of thinking, I would only ever lynch people who were strongly pushing for dead scum because that's how I play scum - I bus the ever living fuck out of my partners into oblivion and rely on my ability to create a strong day presence after the fact to ride into LYLO situations where I either control the outcome of the lynch because I've got two players suspicious of each other, OR I feel confident enough in whoever I brought to LYLO with me that I believe I can win that situation roughly 90% of the time.

You see how that falls apart pretty quickly? I'd fail miserably if I even tried to apply that meta once to another player. Not to mention, I'm aware of that exact fact and have intentionally deviated from it as scum.

I'm vt and I'm gonna get to this game this weekend (today or tomorrow)
I'm claiming to not waste time

Still scummy.

---

TIP's "low-hanging fruit" comment is fucking scummy, btw. It's basically saying "Yeah, I'm playing shitty and scummy as fuck, but I'm gonna self-deprecate in order to deflect any possible attention from that and allow myself to continue acting in an anti-town manner."

More people should be voting to lynch the ever living daylights outta that.

[AGar]

No case my ass.

[AGar]

farside I think your problem is "I'm seeing this guy, he's not doing what I would do as town, ergo scum" which is really faulty reasoning and muffin is trying to explain but you just don't listen

All-star defense. Really. Fantastic.

Oh, and so my words don't get misconstrued once again, I said lolwat because i am nothing close to a skilled scum player and talah has no idea what she's talking about

Scum wouldn't ever concern themselves with what they said and try and pre-empt the town attacking that, right? Also, this is entirely contradictory with his entire behavior and attitude day 1.

So, that leads me back to my scum-reads and proximity to the night kill (I know Agar hates this). But, of the people in rooms 1 and 3 (where the kills were). I think the scummiest person is Papa Zito. If I were scum, I would let the person who was getting the most heat from town do the kill because if they are caught it is no big loss.

VOTE: Papa Zito

Keep voting a useless wagon! Such town, many scumhunting, wow.

[AGar]

Agar, do you think Papa Zito is town?

Yeah. Not nearly present as much as I'd like, but computer issues and such as he mentioned. But yeah, I'd bet Zititown.

[AGar]

@Agar: Not typically around on weekends plz

Didn't know that, my b.

[AGar]

Huh.. this is interesting. Caught up, nothing good to say right now, except that I am leaning towards the all three trackers are town

That is literally all you have to say? No other comment?

[AGar]

Happy scumday.

Buuut you should probably make a convincing case on someone when you get a chance because right now you're just pissing your vote away.

[AGar]

God dammit there was an entire page and p-edit didn't tell me. Fuck you, p-edit, you treacherous mistress.

That post was in reference to Venmar's post on 64 giving like 4 potential lynches he'd be behind.

[AGar]

Happy scumday.

Buuut you should probably make a convincing case on someone when you get a chance because right now you're just pissing your vote away.

You should vote MD for active lurking and not scumhunting.

For justice.

My vote's on actual scum. Like TIP. I even said why.

It's like you don't even care about my feelings anymore.

[AGar]

Looking through your iso I don't exactly see a case on TIP, Agar.

It seems like people are voting him just because it is TIP?

Ask, and ye shall receive.

[AGar]

Somebody let me know when we pull our heads out of our collective asses and decide "Hey let's actually lynch the fucking scumbag."

[AGar]

Somebody let me know when we pull our heads out of our collective asses and decide "Hey let's actually lynch the fucking scumbag."

Who besides tip are you scum reading?

AD.
Had minor scumreads on both Aronis and Venmar but both of those kinda went up in smoke a few hours ago.

[AGar]

I really really really really want TIP dead, what can I say.

[AGar]

With you...yeah, you would take that as a complement.

I don't really see TIP as all that scummy. Zito has been completely useless and like I said before, scum would want their scummiest player to do the kill in case they were caught in this role-heavy game. Of the two rooms, Zito is the scummiest.

Your. Logic. As. Scum. Is. Fucking. Horrible.

Scum do NOT want their scummiest player to do the kill BECAUSE they're most likely to catch heat from PRs. Like holy shit. You are so fucking ignorant of that small facet that I know you can't possibly be scum because your team would have bussed you from the fucking getgo. There is exactly ONE ROLE that could fuck that plan up, and that requires the watcher to be able to figure out WHO the kill is going to be in a game where it wasn't blatantly obvious. Literally, you could possibly be the worst player on the site in the history of the site when it comes to even trying to THINK like scum.

---

Everyone just shut up and fucking vote TIP.

[AGar]

Well then

Wagon disappears and this is all you have to offer?

How does no one see this?

[AGar]

Not usually a VCA/vote pattern guy but I just want to point out that TIP parks on Talah for the better part of Day 1, but when the wagon clearly isn't going to materialize (it peaks at about 5 votes), and a wagon starts to gain a bit of traction on Venmar, TIP makes a quick switch to try and push a qwints wagon. He then hops back to Talah as it grows to compete with Venmar (7 for Talah, 8 for Venmar).

Now his wagon is failing to gain traction.

This seems pretty obvious to me.

Lynch it dead folks.

[AGar]

UNVOTE: tip
VOTE: aronis

Do you actually want to try and support your vote with less than 3 and a half days until deadline or are you intentionally making the most anti-town votes possible because fuck the town?

[AGar]

Aronis, if you have a shot left, I'm begging here at this point.

[AGar]

@ AGar Aronis already said that he asked whether double action would apply to his daykill, and he produced a relevant quote. Check his iso. It actually might be relevant to check the timing of when the Mod made that post, in case Aronis's question motivated it.

I really just want to die in this game right now is what I'm asking him to help with. Not trying to actually figure out if he has any shots left really.

The fact that the TIP wagon is dissipating and we're just ghost-shifting to Aronis because trolololol why not is really just frustrating. TIP is blatantly obvious scum, and yet everyone is like "Nah meta/VI." They're the two most aggravating arguments to even read because the people who make those arguments will literally not see a single fucking thing short of a cop guilty that will change their minds, even though half the time they're goddamned wrong about meta and VI doesn't actually say a fucking thing about alignment, it's just a copout for not bothering trying to read through poor, anti-town or scummy play and figuring out motivation. It's the laziest thing in the book.

[AGar]

Agar what you're selling is 50/50. You even admit it.

This is just flat out wrong.

If I had more shots I could shoot Agar and myself. I'm certainly not claiming lovers if thats what you think.

That wouldn't make sense either. You just cant play against your wincon. Shooting yourself is against your wincon in any case

For the rest of you not reading along at home, I asked to be shot because this game is extremely frustrating. Apparently, Aronis feels the same way, and quipped about it when answering me.

[AGar]

I could get behind the following lynches:
Papa Zito - I'm not going to lie, this is mostly proximity to kill and the fact I think scum would want their most suspect player to make the kill. When I did my "interest in lynching" post on day 1, Zito was at the top.
Deltawave - 10 posts in 73 pages. 2 serious posts ( and I am being generous since one was during RVS), 1 joke post, 7 prod dodges/no content posts.
Deathnote - no original thoughts. Making an art form out of sheeping.
Aronis - hated the day vig shenanigans.
PeregrineV- haven't read anything out of this slot that makes me think he is town.

Deadline is in 38 hours...

And all you've done is provide us with a list and not actually made a significant attempt to get any single one of them lynched! Bravo, such town.

How about you pick the one you feel strongest about and give the rest of the town a full blowout as to why they should vote them? I'll tell you now out of principal I won't sheep you onto a confirmed guilty today but for the rest of the town, go for it!

[AGar]

There is a thread in mafia discussion that you would do well to read about verbally abusing fellow players. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52281. So do not ask anything else from me. You are the last person I would ever do anything for.

You have called another player dumb as a box of rocks. Then an idiot. Then asked why he bothers coming to the site.

Called a different player "God's gift to Mafia" and then admitted you meant it in a derogatory tone.

Both of these were pretty well agreed upon in that thread as "inappropriate." I inherently disagree but you're citing that thread as the example for etiquette so here we go.

Get off your high horse, and just play the game. You're literally admitting to fucking over 20 other people (me and you excluded) to what - spite me? I really don't care at the end of the day. It's a game. I have strong opinions. I have been an asshole to several other players in this game. Right or wrong, I can at least admit it - I'm not perfect, I'm not gonna be. This is me, take it or leave it. But don't get all high and mighty because you think you've been the nicest player in the playerlist. You haven't.

---

TIP still not dead. God damn people, how much more resistance does this need to scream scumwagon?

[AGar]

AGar, presume I am scum. How many scum partners are on my wagon?

Not enough seeing that you're still posting.

I see 1 potential. And even that's one I have a handful of people ahead of so I'm not really putting my stock in that one. You a PR? Something strong? Key component to your team's success?

[AGar]

When I flip town, what happens? This game goes into shit and scum wins, that's what happens
Always wanting to be right, tsk tsk you egotistic people

You've been so essential to everything we've done thus far, it'll be hard to replace your effort and value if you flip town.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nacho

Zeets, I'll yell at people when I get back from work, k? Awesome.

[AGar]

Why are we wanting to Veto something that scum has gone for the veto with? (even if they haven't voted in the proper format), since everyone managed to get replaced, I'm not seeing the issue with this event.
The ones we're want to use it on would be Latency or 3 Person Shootout.

That wasn't the scum claim.

VOTE: Nacho

And this seems directly contradictory to what I just quoted. Good job!

19 pages behind. I'll go through them, but anyone want to offer up a summary?

TIP is scum but we're going to let him live another day.
Scum vetoed Dia de los Muertos.
We rolled "Nomination" for tomorrow which has quicktopic and Gladiator-esque shenanigans for the mechanic.
Some people thought because of activity concerns that vetoing Nomination would be wise.
Nacho is scum because he used the scum formatting for his veto.

TL;DR - Vote Nacho. Read up while his corpse swings from the gallows and we can kill TIP tomorrow.

---

To those arguing something to save Nacho - the town veto is the first one listed. The only reason he would know the scum veto formatting is

because he had recently used the scum veto-ing format.

Full stop. End debate. Occam's Razor is not your friend here, and anything you say to go otherwise just reads as a scumclaim.

[AGar]

Or... I skimmed the first page when looking up how to veto and grabbed it from mafia veto.
Why is this unreasonable?

Because the Town Veto is above the Mafia Veto.

I checked.
There's bold.

Urscum.

OH LOOK FARSIDE USED SCUM SYNTAX I'M ABSOLUTELY SURE SHE'S COMPLETELY FUCKING SCUM

After you did in-thread.

I can do this all day.

GGscum.

[AGar]

After you did in-thread.

I can do this all day.

GGscum.

I know you can: you have no filter in your brain telling you that what you're saying lacks logic.
Notice how you're not addressing any of the content I'm producing in the meantime, and notice how the content I'm producing at L-1 with 20 hours left already blows your content out of the water.

I'm not addressing it because you're scum. I'll admit, you're handling this better than I would. My solution when I slipped was just not to post in the thread for 24 hours until I either died or something else happened.
The content you're "producing" at L-1 with 20 hours left consists of "TIP is town because meta." and threatening that town is going to regret lynching you.
I somehow don't think we will.

P-Edit: Oh god, posting before work! So am I confirmed town, too?

[AGar]

Aaaand you also ignored my first point which is the more damning one.

Many content. Such town. Wow.

[AGar]

TOWN VETO IS FIRST AND IN BOLD.

[AGar]

You probably should, considering you're just being obtuse at this point.

Or someone should do it. I don't care who.

There is no way you scroll down and don't see "Town Veto" before "Scum Veto."

[AGar]

Like PHYSICS or something dammit.

[AGar]

I swear if I knew I could do it without getting modkilled, I would screen cap a video of me SCROLLING DOWN with the scroll bar to illustrate that you're full of shit.

[AGar]

Oh you're so clever.

[AGar]

P-Edit: Aimed at the guy who came a vengeshot away from winning Gundam as your scumbuddy. Short memory?

[AGar]

But now?
Not so impressed.

I know, I'm just upset I didn't catch you. I'm ok with Zito having the credit though.

[AGar]

You do realize that if I believed everyone who ever said that, I'd never lynch anyone, right?

[AGar]

Dear god please fake a guilty on me. That would be rewarding on so many levels.

[AGar]

I dun care, scum.

[AGar]

It's percentages, so have at it killer.

[AGar]

Spoiler alert: I'm not unvoting.

[AGar]

God dammit I always forget that role exists and is a thing.

UNVOTE:

Fiiiiiine.

After this game we are going to have a long goddamn talk about how you scroll past the bold letters that say Town Veto because god dammit.

VOTE: TIP

I have a feeling I'm not getting this one today either but DAMMIT.

[AGar]

Because it's confirmable. Serious, not trying to be a dick, do you know what a friendly neighbor does?

[AGar]

Why wouldn't KK have used this Day 1 to get maximum benefit. That doesn't make sense.

KK lurked the shit out of Day 1, fwiw.

[AGar]

I know what a neighbor does....what's a friendly neighbor? And when do you neighborize, during day or night?

He doesn't neighborize. He gets to choose a player and the mod confirms him as town to that player.

@Zito

Also, Geography screwed with a bunch of people's heads. Definitely might have been worth saving it for fear of Geography interfering.

[AGar]

Zito, dw, I gots a plan for dat.

P-Edit: >_>

[AGar]

Zito, dw, I gots a plan for dat

What, lynch him tomorrow?

I mean that's the contingency but no.

Cahoots is a great word. I should use it more often.

We all should.

[AGar]

Zito, he is the one that caught it so he has no reason to lie for you.

We have multiple claimed trackers, pretty sure one of them could spare a track on Nacho to make sure he visits me when double action is a thing tonight, fwiw.

[AGar]

Trackers are likely not to live, two are JOAT types. If he is telling the truth there is also the potential of role blocks. It's all a big can of wifom. And your argument is the same if he visits Zito.

Also, if we don't lynch nacho, he MUST be nominated no matter what from his room. No one will be able to confirm him before nominations.

That is a very good point. I believe we'll be able to confirm him one way or another, but didn't think about that.

[AGar]

i think just for caution's sake it's probably best to let the nacho lynch wait a day just in case it happens to be one huge fucking massive coincidence (even though the fact he is 1-shot is also a massive coincidence given double actions)

(side note: does zoraster include many/any 1-shot roles in games?)

He likes modifiers. In Always On I was a Fibonacci Mafia Cop - I could only investigate on nights that were Fibonacci numbers.

But also Friendly Neighbor is the definition of a role born for 1-shot.

[AGar]

Guys, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then nacho is a duck.

Might be an animated cgi duck... Oh it is still a duck





Guy in a duck suit?

You wanna catch up instead of making bad jokes?

[AGar]

Juls, serious question: Do you think Nacho is some kind of strong Mafia power gambitting that? Or do you just think he's mafia? Because the former would explain your 'He should die today" stance, but the latter means we just let him live another night and lynch him tomorrow if he's lying, but with the reward that he might not be and then we have confirmed town. I'm even ok with him going to Zito to confirm it if that'll make it better with you.

P-Edit: Can we NOT JK me on Double Action night? That'd be great.

[AGar]

This is stupid...he is scum on a platter. I don't even know why I am here. I am completely out of sync with this entire town. I literally hate this game and can't see what putting off nacho until tomorrow buys us. No offense to zoraster, it's a fun setup but i am beyond frustrated with this game.

The offhand chance he's not lying and will then be confirmed town.

[AGar]

L-5 for Nacho.

I'll be able to check once tomorrow morning before work to see where to put my vote but then I'm at work until deadline sooo we should probably come to a consensus.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nacho

Dammit this is shitty. Sorry Nacho.

[AGar]

AGar why the hell would you self nom?

Farside is all but confirmed town with her claim and Nacho's flip and what she's claimed and what I know in addition to the threadstuff. Like Farside should be
PV is not someone I want lynched at worst, and a townread at best. He's fallen somewhere in between because of the nom thread shenanigans but I'd rather other people lynched today.

Also stuff.

Also Venmar is town and shit.

Why isn't ActionDan dead.

It's really a sad thing, ain't it?

3. This game has become the I want to get drunk off my ass before reading from now on.

Yeeeeup. Been there.

Total prod dodge otherwise, because I'm shot (11 hour shifts wheee! 10 hours tomorrow! New jobs wheeeeeeee). I'll post something substantial either tomorrow night or Thursday morning.

[AGar]

@Juls

Pretty much just stalling/buying as much time as possible. Maybe trying to get another mislynch. Especially with double actions and him being a RB.

---

Going to be V/LA for probably a week? Router here is down so I have to relocate my laptop temporarily if I want to use internet for the time being until it's fixed. I'll try and do that once a day, work permitting and all that fun stuff.

[AGar]

vote: agar

I really want to get this wagon rolling I think. I still really don't like AD but something agar said kinda has stuck with me (and this is not my primary reason for voting him, I have already explained that) When talking to nacho he said something like --when I made a mistake I just disappeared for a while and basically gave town time to forget--- I am phone posting so I can't really look it up at the moment but just scan his ISO around the nacho slip. And now he is vla. It's probably legit but this is a game of suspicions and I am suspicious. I still don't feel that interaction was sincere. It felt like two guys who said...come at me and then I will claim and you can unvote. Maybe we will save me but if not you look good for the bus. I had suspicions of agar day 1, so I like this vote.

I almost never fucking V/LA and the one time I V/LA because the router goes down I get fucking called on it?

This is horseshit.

I have shit to do because I just got my paycheck today and worked all day, but I will be tearing this game apart around 11 EST tonight.

[AGar]

Starting from pre-crash to date. Time to turn some shit... ON IT'S SIDE.

Metal Sonic should die at some point for multiple reasons. PGO claim which is bullshit, Nom group shenanigans, etc. Plenty of reasons. Ok so now he's a reflexive infector or some shit. That's cute.

Magua is very much probtown.

Note to self: This may be relevant later.

Did AGar give any actual reasons for townreading you?

BS's wall post looks like a steaming pile of BS. Trying to subtly overplay Cheery's self-nom looks really shitty when Cheery comes in and sets shit straight immediately after.

Oversoul asked for who we thought noms would be. The only two I even tried to guess were mnemonic and TIP. I didn't feel I had a good enough grasp on where everyone stood re: everyone else to try and guess at the other groups.

BS and juls' votes are also the other reason why I wanted to self-nom (the "also stuff" I alluded to in #2645). I said in the PT that I figured scum would go for some cheap points to try and get something rolling on me because of the Nacho unvote. That we had double actions last night should be relatively insignificant. Mafia and town both had double actions. So that point is moot. As for "saving Nacho" - anyone who has played with Nacho knows he is worth having around as a confirmed town player. Like fuck, that's so god damn beneficial. People who have played with me know I don't fucking lift the pedal when I bus a partner. It's just not how I'm wired. If I want you dead and you're my scumbuddy, I will zip the goddamn bodybag myself.

BS is worth consideration. His vote was shit.

Um..yes..I was jailkept and the second target. That is why my two vig kills didn't go through too.

Where did we gather you were the second target? I didn't see that, and I feel it was much more likely to be farside. Like, Nacho's flip confirmed her. And she's a strong PR.

Hopefully this quote isn't messed up. I think that AO is pretty null. Town can confide their roles in others that they trust, but if one of our town reads is scum, then they have a huge advantage with this.

AO is preeeeetty townsided. This is scummy.

Meanwhile, Day Action is pretty scumsided.

VOTE: Veto

If your next post isn't vetoing Day Action, you better have a good explanation why because holyshit we will have some really vulnerable town power roles.

Not voting mnemonic solely because L-3 and going to bed and dumber shit has happened before (see AUoIAF Day 2). But mnemonic you should really claim.
In your next post.

It's also really frustrating that TIP keeps slipping through the cracks here.

Successful note to self!

@Talah

- PV never really hashed out actually why I found him townish for you. Like none of my reasons were actually posted here. I posted in the PT about why. Not sure if the actual why was important to you or him just answering was but there is definitely that.

[AGar]

AO is preeeeetty townsided. This is scummy.

In what way is AO townsided? I personally think it's a useless and distracting card (unless you're masons, in which case, idk). I personally don't care either way for it.

I was scum in the original Always On. We got fucking steamrolled in that game in part because of the Always On mechanic. Scum are forced to either be absolutely hyperactive or lurk to shit. If they try to find some middle ground, they are fucked. Even then, F2F mafia is generally a town-sided affair. A lot of interaction with AO was via Google Hangouts, which I would advise we organize if we DO get AO, which allows for real time responses, which is going to weed out a lot of scummy players.

AO is really god damned powerful.

That we had double actions last night should be relatively insignificant.

Also, are you fucking serious dude? The fact Nacho flipped RB after trying to make that gambit makes you skeevy as fuck.

You really don't get it, do you? We have a Jailkeeper and a Bodyguard. This is literally not debatable at this point. We apparently have a Vig. We have two claimed trackers. We also have talah's progressive-wonky-as-fuck role that I still don't understand fully but seems pretty stronk.

A roleblocker, even with two shots at night, is insignificant as fuck in the bigger picture. He can what, block two of those? Great, 4 more claimed PRs still get to do their shit.

And again. The shot of confirmed town Nacho is REALLY fucking beneficial. Like you must not realize how on point he can be when he is town, and that jesus christ that would have been a huge boon. It was god damn worth the risk.

---

Just checked - Day Action is a Rare card which meant it was 10 Z. Scum literally could have submitted 8 Day Action cards. With non-chosen cards not being revealed, scum will just lie about their choices. No point in trying to figure out who submitted it.

[AGar]

I don't mind you sitting there thinking that this card is God's Gift to town for the game of Mafia. But stating it's scummy for people not to think that way is ridiculous. MD didn't even state it was scummy. He called it null. You using this as a reason to scumread him is weak as shit.

No, it's pretty scummy to just try and dismiss it when it is literally. that. strong.

Maybe you don't understand what I mean by the scumteam got steamrolled in Always On. Go read that game. Read the post-game. Realize that the mechanic is STRONK.

You're also positioning that a card that's 'supposedly' pro-town because of something that happened in a game that was designed around it is going to fix the state of this game. When in reality, all you're doing is segregrating players who have the time and commitment to group up and do your f2f whatever where people are going to rely on 'word of mouth' and possibly hide behind other interactions that can't be confirmed because it's not in thread. Also, I highly doubt everyone here is going to have webcams or whatever to do your google hangout (I don't have a webcam) and from what I've seen in marathon games, players on this site have differing levels of ability to play either forum mafia or real-time mafia.

Again. Read Always On. Or at least the postgame. Not everyone had cameras. Videos were posted from pretty much every hangout. Skype was utilized. AIM was utilized. Maybe you don't realize the impact of real time responses. If you're having a conversation with anyone in any real time medium, you're going to pick up on hesitation, unnecessary thought, the like.

The fact that you're also trying to pile onto "AO isn't that good." just reinforces the fact that you are scummy as shit.

You really don't get it, do you? We have a Jailkeeper and a Bodyguard. This is literally not debatable at this point. We apparently have a Vig. We have two claimed trackers. We also have talah's progressive-wonky-as-fuck role that I still don't understand fully but seems pretty stronk.

A roleblocker, even with two shots at night, is insignificant as fuck in the bigger picture. He can what, block two of those? Great, 4 more claimed PRs still get to do their shit.

And again. The shot of confirmed town Nacho is REALLY fucking beneficial. Like you must not realize how on point he can be when he is town, and that jesus christ that would have been a huge boon. It was god damn worth the risk.

d
Why are you downplaying the fact that scum are going to want to capitalize on a double-action phase? Yeah, town has a ton of claimed power roles. So what? That just gives them more incentive to keep roles like a 'roleblocker' alive to deal with it in the coming night phase.

I have deduced that you don't know what you're talking about anymore. Don't bother replying, it's just wasted text, scum.

Don't have a lot of time to post. I'll read up on mnemonic's stuff later.

VOTE: Veto

Whoever voted for Day Action is either scum or foolish, and those who have threatened to lynch the person that voted for Day Action is almost equally foolish. Why would someone confess it, now that multiple people have publicly condemned the event and voiced their desire to kill the person responsible? And if they're scum, they wouldn't, anyway, and I'm not sure how you would find such a person. I voted for 5x Spilt Universe, as I understood at the time that that was what everyone seemed to want (though Hydra Kids, Hydra Wife is totally cool). I guess we could start by tallying the votes, but I'm not so sure that would get us anywhere.

Thank you for stating completely obvious and non-committal facts!

[AGar]

People who have played with me know I don't fucking lift the pedal when I bus a partner. It's just not how I'm wired. If I want you dead and you're my scumbuddy, I will zip the goddamn bodybag myself.

If I went by TIP's line of thinking,

I would only ever lynch people who were strongly pushing for dead scum because that's how I play scum

- I bus the ever living fuck out of my partners into oblivion and rely on my ability to create a strong day presence after the fact to ride into LYLO situations where I either control the outcome of the lynch because I've got two players suspicious of each other, OR I feel confident enough in whoever I brought to LYLO with me that I believe I can win that situation roughly 90% of the time.

You see how that falls apart pretty quickly? I'd fail miserably if I even tried to apply that meta once to another player. Not to mention,

I'm aware of that exact fact and have intentionally deviated from it as scum.

At least you've been reading. I mean, there's minor points to nitpick but they basically boil down to lolmeta.

P-edit: Agar is scum, not solely because of the unvote but also because of the fact that he was going to be the one confirming Nacho. It's a high risk gambit but I get the impression that is the type of players they are.

Not only did I not choose to be the one he confirmed to, but I also plainly stated that I'd be fine with someone else receiving the friendly neighbor shot if people didn't trust me. So that reasoning is shit.

Literally your case hinges on the fact that I unvoted because Nacho, a very competent town player, claimed a confirmable role.

That's it.

Meanwhile mnemonic clearly has insight into something and is purposefully saying "Lol fuck you guys." and your sole reason for voting him is to hopefully get him to crack. You don't find it scummy, you just wanna know the info.

[AGar]

He's shown an awareness that what he did is scummy enough that scum might try and latch onto it to mislynch him if he were town, but doesn't even consider that town might want to push him for it too.

Have you seen me say Juls is scummy? Or did I single your vote out as shitty?

Oh wait, I singled your vote out as shitty.

You're scumfucked, brah.

[AGar]

Yeah I am not buying MD's claim, and that is only compounded by the fact that he did not claim any results with that.

Giving 10 hours for result claims before I lay a vote.

[AGar]

Yeah I am not buying MD's claim, and that is only compounded by the fact that he did not claim any results with that.

Giving 10 hours for result claims before I lay a vote.

Meh he doesn't look to be a frequent poster I would give him at least 24 hours to 48.

24 is reasonable. I chose 10 because I want to try and maybe go to sleep at a reasonable hour tonight and want something tangible before I go to bed, but you make a point with his regular non-posting. 48 is reeeeaaaallly stretching my desire to see him flip thin, though. I flat out don't buy the claim, but I can understand the desire for results. But 48 hours gives him/scumbuddies time to try and duck a way out of this, fabricate whatever they need and try and ride this out and hope it loses steam.

[AGar]

So last login for mnemonic was yesterday. From what I can tell this the only game he is alive in. He is absolutely stalling.

Because no one is allowed to have a life outside of MS?

Didn't he bring up finals or was that someone else?

I still want to lynch him, but I don't think he's stalling.

[AGar]

If he "has a life" or "has finals" then why is he logging in? We all have lives outside of mafia but being that he is the lynch target and is logging in for some reason, he could at least take 2seconds to claim his targets. But he is stalling.

Last visited: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:19 AM
Last post: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:19 AM

I don't see how he's stalling - he's literally just not around. It'd be one thing if he was posting elsewhere, but he's not. Hell, going by "Last Visited" is probably a pretty poor idea to begin with, but in this case it literally lines up with his last post.

[AGar]

Fair enough. I thought you meant "He hasn't logged on. Obv stalling." so we both kinda whiffed there.

[AGar]

Agar, stalling by coming in and not claiming his results/targets when he said he would claim with sufficient force on him.

Don't get me wrong. I think the claim is bull.

Juls and I misinterpreted each other over what constituted his stalling. You want to go with not claiming them in the first place and I can agree to that. It was the logging in fact that we misunderstood - I don't think simply not logging in is anything worth taking alignment from.

I'm not 100% sure why you felt the need to rehash this after Juls and I worked out the communication issues? Hell, I even made a very strong effort to play nice.

Sorry. Last day of finals. Will fix everyone's problems tonight.

Haven't read ahead yet, but this is scummy and deserves death. Will cast the L-2, L-1, L-0 and L-^-1 votes if he hasn't claimed by the time I'm fully read up, 12 hours after this post.

/annoyed

/amused

Juls if you vig this I will be the nicest person ever and find a nice thing to say about even the scummiest of scumbags for the rest of forever. I will abandon rhetoric and instead scumhunt with love until my scumreads hang from little pink ribbon nooses.

This post is a scum replace-in post. It doesn't ask for cliff notes on the game or the day or even the main lynch target. He specifically wants to know about what surrounds the slot that he replaced into, and only that slot.

VOTE: mnemonicdevice

Needs death.

[AGar]

First, I disagree. That post you linked is not exactly a scum replace-in post, but rather an anti-town post. Were it was a scum replace-in post, you would have voted for me by now. I am under the assumption that the most suspicion falls on my slot. But you couldn't vote for me yet; you have to consider my playstyle. Otherwise, every game I have replaced in this forum would have me lynched immediately. But that didn't happen, did it?

MD is scummier. And we have a looming deadline. And I don't actually have to consider your playstyle. In fact, I don't want to. Don't get me started on a meta rant. It won't be pretty. Plus, you're wrong.

Let's talk it over AGar, because you have never played with me before.

Nope, haven't played with you before. But not gonna sway my opinion.

The best person you can trust is yourself. Think about being a participant of a mafia game. You know no one's alignment, role, etc. (well, unless you're a mafia, mason and whatnot. And even then there are possibilities of scum-masons, usurpers, etc. you get the gist.) This is my mindset entering any game. I don't care what cliff notes you spew to me, whether you do it freely cause you're a nice guy, or because I asked, because I won't be asking for them in the first place and I won't be reading it until I caught up from the beginning. Criticize me for not being an efficient town member/bad player, etc., but you cannot force someone to change how they work best.

Again you're wrong. But that's becoming a trend here.
It's not "Hurr durr you didn't ask for cliff notes from us, scum."
It's "You didn't care about anything that has gone on in the game, only what has happened focusing in on your slot."

[AGar]

UNVOTE:

Holy scum, batman!

MD dies, Clyton dies tomorrow. Or eats vig sandwiches. Not sure I care which but yeah.

P-Edit: This is why I like Magua.

[AGar]

N1 target.

I mean this shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.

[AGar]

Hey - I just noticed something. Please validate.

mnemonic said he copped me Night 1 and got a result. He was two rooms away. I travelled one room away.

Geography?

Eh. I think it would've only mattered had he been blocked/JKed.

Zzzyx did the same thing when he replaced in, why did you not give him shit?

Who did ZZZX replace? I don't even remember him replacing in. I figured he was just one of the chronic lurkers.

[AGar]

VOTE: mnemonicdevice

Swing loowwww,

sweet chaaariot

you scuuuummmy guy.

[AGar]

Well I totally forgot the day was starting today >_>

I am really warming up to the idea that the last one is Venmar.

This would be highly unlikely unless Venmar was a role that didn't really do anything upon targeting players and decided to target farside and Iec.

[AGar]

Well I totally forgot the day was starting today >_>

I am really warming up to the idea that the last one is Venmar.

This would be highly unlikely unless Venmar was a role that didn't really do anything upon targeting players and decided to target farside and Iec.

Or venmar lied about his targets since you know he isn't listed with goo.

It's almost like I know more than just what he said?

[AGar]

I'm going to try and process how goo should have spread and all that. In the meantime, we shouldn't do anything rash like lynching Venmar.

[AGar]

I'm going to wait for farside to receive her answer, but I think it's unlikely she received goo N2. N3 seems more likely.

[AGar]

Well I totally forgot the day was starting today >_>

I am really warming up to the idea that the last one is Venmar.

This would be highly unlikely unless Venmar was a role that didn't really do anything upon targeting players and decided to target farside and Iec.

Or venmar lied about his targets since you know he isn't listed with goo.

It's almost like I know more than just what he said?

So you think he lied as town? Or what?

He didn't lie. And you didn't get your goo until N3. Which means your N3 target gave you goo. Re-read my posts in our nomination topic - I softed that Venmar wasn't lying there. Specifically later (end of P1, and my post on P2).
Juls got goo N3 from targeting Clyton.

So far my map for Yellow Goo looks like this:

Originated: Metal Sonic
N1: Unknown
N2: ActionDan, Magua, Iecerint, Cheerydog
N3: Juls, unkown (if Clyton targetted anyone).

Blue Goo is a bit more confusing as we have no way of knowing anything.

Talah, farside and Juls should have acquired goo N3.

That leaves Bulbazak or Papa Zito as the potential sources of blue goo.

[AGar]

If anyone isn't following here, let me know.

I can explain each one that I know how/when they got it in detail.

[AGar]

Actually let me just go ahead and do that.

Metal Sonic

- Originated with Yellow Goo.

ActionDan/Clyton

- Targeted Metal Sonic N2.

Magua

- Was targeted by ActionDan who targeted Metal Sonic N2.

Iecerint

- Targeted ActionDan who targeted Metal Sonic N2.

CheeryDog

- Targeted by Iecerint N2, who targeted ActionDan who targeted Metal Sonic N2. This target resolved at the end, explaining why Venmar, who targeted farside and Iecerint N2 doesn't have goo.

Juls

- Targeted early (special resolved first, blocking second) by mnemonic N2 who flipped goo-less. Also, other stuff.

farside22

- CheeryDog acquired goo N2 after farside targeted Juls

and

CD. See "other stuff" again.

Talah

- Targeted mnemonic N2 who flipped goo-less. Investigations occur at the end of the day. Mnemonic would have flipped with goo.

P-Edit: Tracks resolve after kills. PZ did not get goo from Clyton.

[AGar]

Add: Targeted Clyton N3 to the Juls section. Forgot that's the explanation for how she

got

it.

[AGar]

So we have a 50/50 on Bulba/PZ.

I want to know who talah targeted last night and the result.
I'm also curious about who farside targeted.

I think we might be able to break this one open here.

[AGar]

I was going to say that.

Also, what if I said if we lynch scum correctly today, we can potentially clear 2 townies a night?

[AGar]

VOTE: Bulbazak

[AGar]

I'm giddy as shit because it should be 1v14 after today and (fmpov) we have 4 town players who can wreck some faces between me/Juls/Venmar/Farside. Zito is almost assuredly town as well.

The question I have is how did the other player get goo.

[AGar]

I don't get how venmar does not get goo target iec night 2

Protects resolve 2nd or 3rd. Tracks resolve last. Iec didn't get goo until he tracked AD.

[AGar]

I am really impatient right now, dammit. Talah and Bulbazak and Zito need to post so I can figure this out more.

Damn you Zito and your weekend V/LAs.
Damn you Talah and your not-east-coast-USA time zone.
Damn you Bulbazak for... I don't know.

[AGar]

I don't get how venmar does not get goo target iec night 2

Protects resolve 2nd or 3rd. Tracks resolve last. Iec didn't get goo until he tracked AD.

That means the goo should not have effected me night 2. Right?

Yes and based on what I know, you did not have goo n2, because I do not have goo.

[AGar]

Yeah I guess I should full-claim.

I'm a Town Tracker. Held the claim after Iec because we had one. Then another. Plus Talah's track. So one more would have been probably a suicide play.

N1 I targeted TIP. I crumbed that I was a tracker and that I would track him in this post. ("I'll let that track run its course.")
N2 I targeted Juls and Venmar. Venmar did in fact visit Iec and farside. This is why I insisted that he wasn't lying and that he probably ate a bullet that night - I think scum needed to try and kill farside because she would be confirmed as town with the Nacho flip. Scum JK + RB is a way powerful team. Juls visited no one. I alluded to my tracks in the nomination QT, farside can hopefully reread the posts and see that - Post #22 where I mentioned that I felt Venmar had stopped a kill attempt on you (knowing he visited you), and then #33 where I posted about him protecting you unless you suffered interference with your action.
N3 I was an idiot and forgot to submit an action (hence why I was like "Fuck" when the day opened).

If we lynch correctly today, that leaves 1 scum. Between farside and myself, negative results become confirmed townies at that point if we have a kill. Juls can shoot up whoever she wants to. Venmar can protect between the three of us and hopefully soak up two hits. Scum have to actually think about a kill now because there are three methods by which they lose, and the numbers against them grow as time goes on. Even if Venmar doesn't pick right and they kill one of us, it still becomes problematic from them.

[AGar]

So you tracked TIP N1, from two rooms away....and you give no report.
So you tracked me N2, who you said you had a town read on....Why?
And you forgot to submit an action on N3.

This is an extremely fishy claim.

N1 I got no result. I didn't see a reason to claim. I wouldn't have gotten a result unless he went halfway around the world to do anything.
N2 I tracked you because I felt your reaction to Nacho's claim was sketchy from my perspective.
Yes, I got caught up in a department switch at work and my schedule changed from a handful of 5 hour shifts to a bunch of full shifts the past couple of days.

Consider this: with that claim, if I'm scum, today I have given you a 50/50 on my last partner and simultaneously forced myself to hand out innocents the rest of the game. In a 1v15 game, do the math - I never win. The moment I try a false guilty, I die. So I am forced to say "Nope, X didn't visit the dead target." for the rest of the game. I have confirmed Venmar as town with my claim. Unless you think a mafia doc protects two town PRs they are afraid of (JK and Tracker).

P-Edit: Yes, I have. But I also have posts that farside (or PV if he ever comes back) can confirm exist showing my knowledge of that BEFORE the claim came about. So unless you think mafia had two trackers and a roleblocker...

[AGar]

Vote: Oversoul

We're lynching between Bulba and PZ today. They are the only two viable lynches. Please try again.

[AGar]

Also relevant to my claim is "Considering what you said about Juls with what I have, you probably weren't interfered with last night." in post #33 in our Nom thread, farside.

If you could go ahead and confirm that these things were actually said, that'd be fantastic.

[AGar]

Agar, have you ever forgot to submit an action at night or lied and said you forgot to submit an action as scum?

For the former, I'm not sure. I will double check, give me about half an hour.
For the latter, no.

[AGar]

Agar, have you ever forgot to submit an action at night or lied and said you forgot to submit an action as scum?

For the former, I'm not sure. I will double check, give me about half an hour.
For the latter, no.

Ok I have never failed to submit an action before. This was a very rare circumstance - I'm switching departments at work in order to ensure I get made permanent so I was very focused on that.

Juls / Farside, does it state you have Goo in your role PM's?

How much aren't you reading? Zor's opening post for the day says who has goo.

Anyway, I have one criteria. Agar does not live to endgame.

Not that you're really in a position to make demands, but I give no shits if the town decides this.

[AGar]

Yeah Bulba needs to be the lynch.

The two we lynch are Bulba or Zito. CD got his goo from Iec. No other way.

If CD has goo before Farside targets him, then farside gets goo. Juls gets goo then because Farside acquires goo. I get goo because Juls gets goo.

I don't have goo.

Ergo, CD did not have goo before Farside, is not the scum goo killer. CD could be scum, but we're going to lynch the scum goo killer today.

[AGar]

Why Bulba? We need to know why farside has goo. Farside jailkept two of them Cheery Dog and Zito. Bulba is the left over that we kill if these two don't pan out. Zito is most obvious choice since the kill on N2 was with blue goo and CD was jailkept so he couldn't have made the kill. I could possibly be convinced of Bulba before Cheery but I don't see how it can't be Zito, especially since he was in the room where the first kill was made.

Bulba was one room over from BB. That wouldn't be a huge deterrent if it didn't seem like he would be blocked. And honestly, there has been minimal suspicion of Bulba the entire game, it's entirely possible the scum team was confident in his ability.

Farside has goo from targeting Zito. This is a fact. That is the only way farside got goo.
CD did not originate with goo. Otherwise I would have goo. This is also fact.

@Errbody

You believe farside is town. She will be able to come in and confirm everything I said in our nomination topic as true - things I said which would confirm my actions from N2. At that point you should either believe my claim or you think scum had two trackers, which is something I'd love to hear. I didn't just say things like "Ahwp, I tracked X." I said things that could not have been known to me

without

having actually carried out tracks on Venmar and Juls. Venmar and I cannot both be scum because neither of us have goo and there is a mafia member who has blue goo left. So there isn't any gambit there.

I mean, there was a reason I crumbed my results in a private thread with a player who is all but confirmed as town.

[AGar]

Agar: why did you not push hard for AD lynch more? That is my biggest issue.

Because there were two other tracker claims (AD and Iec) and, while I didn't believe AD's claim, I didn't know what to make of it entirely with my role added in.

[AGar]

Guys, srsly, this is getting kind of dumb.

1. If the Mafia are allowed to action + kill (and they are in most zoraster games), or if Clyton didn't perform the kill, then Clyton got to track someone and spread goo that way.

Tracks resolve after kills, so Clyton wouldn't have spread goo to anyone.

2. There's a kill missing N2, which makes it hiiiiiiighly likely that someone who was protected was targeting by the Mafia-ite with the blue goo but lived. But they'd still have goo. (This is my current theory.)

Ok I did not think this possibility through. I assumed a non-goo killer on the mafia team tried to kill.

3. Iecerint fucking tracked someone and gave them the goo.

Said this. Said it a couple of times. No one is reading that.

In regards to Bulbazak vs Papa Zito, I want Bulbazak first simply because if someone's going to decide to powerbus their own roleblocker like that, I want to encourage that behavior.

Lulz.

Agar's claim and what it means for the setup are super weird. Two trackers + the adjusting investigator role? But, I agree that as scum he's cutting his own throat with that claim, so, hooray, I'm happy to accept it? It'd be different if he had goo, but he doesn't, so there's really no scum motivation for him to be drawing attention to himself in the non-goo group like that. Sure, his position wasn't the best beforehand, but if he's scum and his partner gets lynched then he's in a completely unwinnable situation.

At least someone has seen this.

I followed Bulba last night. And I just woke up, so, coffee.

Talah's goo, explained.

We now have explained every gooed person save for Zito and Bulba.

Ergo, again, Zito and Bulba are the only two lynches being considered today.

[AGar]

No, it explains Talah goo. Talah did not have goo before, as evidenced by mnemonic flipping without goo, who Talah visited N2.

[AGar]

AGar I'm really surprised you weren't massively incredulous about effectively 4 tracker roles.

You claimed a 1-shot effectively. Trackers are pretty weak early game. It's later on where they can get downright stupid broke.
Then Iec claimed and I got a little[/ur] heated about his claim.
Then Dan claimed and I called BS as soon as I saw it. I then pointed out I called BS because he was claiming full tracker. Continued pushes about it ensued. Mentioned lynching AD as the primo choice among the claims.

AD was always on the radar from the claim. But a combined apathetic outlook from the town and my personal desire to remain unclaimed for as long as possible (which I fucked over last night anyways, go team me) led me to let it go and hope that it would work itself out at a later point in time. I also kinda hoped someone would pick up on me softclaiming things and maaaaaaybe follow me to the bank on that one.

P-Edit: Yes it does.

[AGar]

?

I'm not sure I follow.

We have a 50/50 here. Two players aren't explained for why they have the goo on them - Bulbazak and Papa Zito. One of them is scum.

[AGar]

I'm assuming either Iece or Clyton tracked me.

Doesn't work.

Scum confirmed.

[AGar]

With talah's no action on Bulbazak, I'm going to undo everything I said.

UNVOTE: Bulbazak
VOTE: Papa Zito

Guess bussing Nacho just isn't worth as much as it used to be.

Zito was jailed by farside, so I'm curious to see what your reasoning here is? We lynch 1, other gets shot. Just curious that you're shifting, not that it matters much?

It's clear with Zor's explanation now that the remaining mafioso does NOT have goo on him currently, outside of PZ/Bulba, and that the other mafioso carried out the kill.

[AGar]

Apparently there were like 20 more posts after that one I quoted. Please hold.

[AGar]

No, it explains Talah goo. Talah did not have goo before, as evidenced by mnemonic flipping without goo, who Talah visited N2.

Like I am still sketch on this...

Because, Talah doesn't have the goo going into Night 3 that means he got it Night 3, either FROM Bulba or from someone with Yellow Goo/Blue Goo.

I think Clyton tracked Talah last night, Talah then gives this goo to Bulba.

I still don't see how Farside got hers unless it was from Papa Zito.

Kills resolve before investigative actions.
Kills resolve before investigative actions.
Kills resolve before investigative actions.
Kills resolve before investigative actions.
Kills resolve before investigative actions.
Kills resolve before investigative actions.
Kills resolve before investigative actions.
Kills resolve before investigative actions.
Kills resolve before investigative actions.
Kills resolve before investigative actions.

Modding 101: If the player dies before their action resolves, it fails. ERGO, no goo was spread by Clyton.

FFS you are being so god damned obtuse right now.

---

Magua is claiming to be the cause of Bulba's goo. Cool. So we lynch Zito. Breaks my heart a bit, but scum gotta die.

---

Juls, if Zito does offchance flip town, then shoot Bulba obv. If not, fire away at whoever - yellow goo players are not in the clear because of how wide it seems to have spread and Iec already having goo so we don't know shit. I misread and was an idiot and didn't think about that earlier with the other mafioso no goo thing.

[AGar]

Sorry, OS. Got outta line there. Been trying to be a bit calmer about shit lately. >_>

[AGar]

Ok I'm going to post a thing on how farside ended up with goo.

The short version is she jailed PZ last night, who is also goo'd.

The long version is this:

Night 2 I tracked Juls (and Venmar but that's unimportant for the explanation). Night 2 farside jailed Juls & Iec. Had farside had goo at that point or gotten goo N2 (from either someone with goo visiting her, or jailing someone who entered N2 with goo), she would have passed it to Juls, and I would have gotten it as well, as my action resolved at the end (investigative).

As I have no goo, farside could not have possibly gotten goo before N3.

P-Edit: Talah, get outta my brain.

[AGar]

Oversoul, where did Zor say that the mafia submitting the kill had to carry out both actions, as you mention here? I couldn't find it, and it hinges on something I'm trying to figure out.

[AGar]

Iec had goo from tracking AD who tracked you on N2. Does not necessarily guarantee that Iec was killed by Clyton. Possible, but not 100%.

When people don't read I have a very hard time holding back.

All kills in any decently designed game will happen simultaneously. All triggers are pulled at the same time, and everyone dies.

[AGar]

Ah ok. I was looking for that.

[AGar]

Yes, and I think it's probably Zito.

What I'm trying to figure out is where the other kill went, and how the goo would come into play.

Not sure how a BG would interact with goo and kills and god my head hurts and I've been excited about this for like 8 hours now ugh.

[AGar]

So there were 5 scum. Nacho, MD, Clyton, and probably Zito we know. There's 1 remaining scum we aren't sure of the identity of.

Clyton could have possibly carried out the kill on Iec, which would in essence mean the last scum could be in the goo or not in the goo. This would have been the smart play as there was speculation that Blacklight day would lead to goo and with Metal's claim yesterday, it was figured visiting someone else would spread it.

Alternatively, our second scum player could be in {Magua/Bulbazak/Cheery/Metal} if he didn't. But we know Bulba didn't do anything thanks to Talah. And Magua visited Bulba. Which narrows it down to Cheery/Metal out of those two.

P-Edit: Like Magua said, it was probably Clyton, it really doesn't matter.
P-Edit2: Mnemonic was also lying out of his ass I believe.

[AGar]

Yeah fine, but I don't know how he even bothers to claims role which can remove goo unless it's provable in some sense. We say "fine, mnemonic, you're a cop with goo-gone. we're having black light day tomorrow, so you need to tell us someone you're going to remove goo from and we'll make sure they don't have goo tomorrow." See?

I have a feeling scum had an idea of how goo worked before we did, to be honest. With one of them starting with it, it seems preeeetty likely.

[AGar]

I have a feeling scum had an idea of how goo worked before we did, to be honest. With one of them starting with it, it seems preeeetty likely.

Yeah no shit. So why does mnem then claim something which might save him if he can only prove it? Points to scum having a role/mechanic which removes goo, no?

Like my tinfoil wants to say that scum get their goo reset to null each day start or something.

I mean, I don't know? Also this - V

I can't really give good reasons why mnemonic claimed Cop-with-Goo-Gone, because it was just such a bad move. Trying to come up with justifications makes my head hurt. But in regards to a "provable" plan to verify his claim, I'll remind you that his claim was that it worked only 50% of the time. So there was no provable plan possible.

In any news, I think we're straying too far into paranoia land right now - or that we've all been staring at this way too long. I know my brain is absolutely fried right now.

[AGar]

What I'm trying to figure out is where the other kill went, and how the goo would come into play.

Is anyone even reading my posts?

I am. I just think you're fucking wronger than wrong. Why do scum shoot Cheery over the claimed tracker or jailkeeper? I'm guessing that Venmar stopped the other kill and because of how priorities and targetting work, he didn't get goo.

[AGar]

@farside

I specifically disseminated certain things in our NomDay thread in order to later confirm my claim - things that would only be plausible if I was in fact a tracker who did what I said. I have asked you to confirm the fact that I said these things. First mentioned here then here and here. If you could actually do that then we can get past whether or not I'm actually a tracker and if anyone really wants to bring up the idea of two scum trackers, that's something I can laugh at.

[AGar]

OK, either
-farside jailkept me
-Agar is unnightkillable
-Venmar protected Agar
or
-(insert your reason here)

Vote: Agar

. This vote isn't moving.

You shot at a claimed power role WHO CAN CLEAR TOWNIES ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS.

Farside verified what I said in the QT.
Magua pointed out how fucking suicidal it would be for me as scum to make that claim.
I spearheaded the 50/50 on what lead to a scum lynch.

My god how can you be so thick?

Brian Skies is clear.

P-Edit: VENMAR PROBABLY WENT IN AND PROTECTED BETWEEN YOU ME AND FARSIDE. Y'KNOW, TO NOT TELEGRAPH TO MAFIA WHO THEY SHOULD KILL. OR APPARENTLY SAVE US FROM TOWNIES TAKING A DIVE OFF OF THE DEEP END.

MY GOD.

[AGar]

And Venmar is protecting me...if I am jailkept I am not a second lynch. Damnit this is so stupid.

Juls think about this:

Talah and I can hand out confirmed innocents.
You can't.

There is a priority here as to who should be protected and it should be between me and Talah at this point.

[AGar]

Like, I want to keep you around and have you shoot outside the me/Talah investigative pool and with Always On we can co-ordinate the FUCK out of that.

But please really REALLY consider what

everyone else is pointing out right now

.

P-Edit: Magua, you are a sick fuck. And I mean that in the best way possible.

[AGar]

Yes, god forbid I was wrong on my read of Zito.

[AGar]

Yes, god forbid I was wrong on my read of Zito.

You said some pretty shitty things to me when I suggested Zito made the night one kill. Stuff that straight up made me feel like shit. Now I know you did this because you are scum but it still sucks to play like that.

Except you're wrong but ok.

[AGar]

Well I was lynching Dan today, but that is unecessary, so Agar is next.

VOTE: Agar

...

[AGar]

That is possible, which would invalidate my result on Brian.

[AGar]

@Mod - Replace me - sorry.

Scum should just end the game rather than make zoraster have to find a replacement for a confirmed town slot.

What do say Agar?

You know what?

I'm not sorry I was a raging asshole towards you earlier in this game anymore.
You are literally being pointlessly obtuse over something that literally. isn't. possible.

At this point you are only acting as a detriment to the town and it's fucking obscene.

Farside confirmed I said things in the Nom-day PT that would only be possible for me to know if I was either a tracker OR I was scum with Venmar. There is 1 scum left. Venmar and I are both alive. ERGO, I am a tracker. This is literally no longer up for debate. Unless you believe farside-town lied. Which leaves two options: 1) I am a Town Tracker like I have said all along. All of my results are legitimate and I am a very strong power role at this point for town. 2) I am a Mafia Tracker. Mafia had two trackers. This is a laughable concept at best. Mafia does not gain anything from doubled power roles like that.

And I see Zito the Blue Goo Goon dead, yet Farside died from Blue Goo.
Icerint died with yellow goo, as did Clyton. So my brainthinks Yellow Goo = SK/thrid-party.

So, yeah, need the full goo workup also.

We literally covered this in length yesterday. Every person was discussed and night actions were linked to prove who had what and why.

Wasn't agar meant to be taking dayside so she didn't have to claim the target yesterday.

I'm not sure I followed?

I was tracking someone separate than farside in order to further improve our pool of innocents. Between Me, Talah and farside we had potential to clear 3 a day.

The idea was for Venmar to not announce who he was protecting and for our vig to

not go off the deep end because of a personal vendetta

shoot the folks who weren't cleared in order to maximize our throughput.

We could have pulled 4 off the potential lynch pool today had things worked out. Unfortunately it wasn't perfect, and there were certain wild cards I couldn't have possibly predicted, but we got at least one last night, and we can hopefully get two tonight as long as people think about things objectively.

---

Ok I'm gonna bullet point this:

• I submitted my track on Brian last night. I received no result. It is highly likely that he went nowhere, but not confirmed because of the off chance farside jailkept me. I do not think she did.
• Always On allows us to further co-ordinate how we can decimate the remaining scumbag. It allows me and Talah's replacement to co-ordinate our targets so we optimize who we clear tomorrow. It allows everyone to claim to a cleared player and then for that player to sift through and figure out what our last lynch or two should be.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PeregrineV

[AGar]

Thought: Magua, who did you visit last night, if anyone?

If your role resolves before kill, they're clear.

[AGar]

Tonight :
Agar track Venmar,
Venmar randomly protect someone....like really random, I suggest a dice roll

Tomorrow, if Agar can't tell you who you targeted kill him.

I am not wasting a track on a confirmed town player.

Sorry, not happening.

Venmar should still protect between the 3 PRs that can confirm players.

Maybe you do not realize - if I'm scum, I lost this game

yesterday when I claimed

.

Again. Do the math. Let's go with the hypothetical here. In the exercise, I'm scum but everyone perfectly believes my claim (you included because we're looking at what would have happened),

I claim yesterday. I break down exactly which two players we should lynch between. OK, I vote Bulba over PZ, who was scum. Let's even say we lynch Bulba and go into last night 14:2, and the plan is followed to a T.
You shoot Papa Zito. 14:1
I killed farside. 13:1

Farside flips with blue goo (explained by her visiting Papa Zito) only. The lynch pool becomes this:

{Me/Aronis/Brian Skies/Oversoul/Prof Fridays/TheIrishPope/PeregrineV/ZZZX}

I clear Brian Skies to start the day (Day 5).
Talah clears Cheery because that was a dumb night choice (sorry Talah, but it was).

Let's say we lynch... Aronis today. For the lulz.

12:1. STILL DAUNTING ODDS FOR THOSE KEEPING SCORE!

I shoot between {you/Talah}. Venmar protects between {me/you/Talah}.
You kill off the unconfirmed list. For the sake of argument, TIP.
I clear Oversoul.
Talah clears Prof Fridays.

Let's say Venmar correctly protects, because we're going for the best case scenario for town, to illustrate just how much I would have fucked myself.

We come into an 11:1 Day 6 with exactly 3 players viable lynches:

{Me/PeregrineV/ZZZX}

We lynch PV.

Go to night.
You shoot ZZZX. I shoot amongst the PRs again. Venmar succeeds again, eliminating the last of any potential suspects.
Mine and Talah's choices no longer matter.

9:1 to start Day 7. 9 players are confirmed as town.

Guess who get's lynched at that point, with the fastest fury that is imaginable.

ME!

Scum loses in this hypothetical scenario.

Again - I literally

volunteered to figure out the goo map, gave my claim out and sold a 50/50 on scum yesterday

unprovoked

. I didn't

have

to figure anything out. I didn't

have

to claim. I chose to, because I saw a way to put town in a position where it is

impossible to lose

barring town going full retard.

How about this Juls - it's currently 14:1.
{Magua/You/Talah/Metal Sonic/Bulbazak/Venmar/Cheery} are confirmed town.
{Brian Skies} is likely confirmed.
{AGar} - I have outlined how I would literally have zero chance of winning this game if I'm scum. Magua has also done the legwork. Magua is confirmed town.
{Aronis/Oversoul/PeregrineV/Professor Fridays/TheIrishPope/ZZZX} would be the remaining lynches.

We lynch PV today.
Tonight you shoot ZZZX. I track Aronis and Talah's replacement follows Oversoul. Venmar protects among you/me/Talah's replacement.
At worst we walk into tomorrow (if PV isn't scum which I'm with Magua, scum is probably deflated at this point) with a lynch list of {Professor Fridays/TheIrishPope/Oversoul} or {Professor Fridays/TheIrishPope/Aronis} for Day 6. We lynch among those three. Say Professor Fridays. Go into night 6 and you shoot TIP. Even if you take the bullet in Night 6, your kill still goes. If the game goes to day 7, it's {Aronis} and we win. If it goes to Night 7 somehow, then Brian Skies gets rope because at this point you/me/Talah are deader than dead because scum needs to kinda kill the roles that take away viable lynches, and farside did jail me last night.

[AGar]

You just described the best case scenario for town, not scum. In the best case scenario for scum, talah dies, likely tonight.

Ok, we'll go best case scenario for scum, starting from our current state. Again, assuming I'm scum to entertain you.

Lynch pool is currently {Aronis/Oversoul/PeregrineV/Professor Fridays/TheIrishPope/ZZZX}
Let's just remember that out of 14 alive town players (assuming I'm scum), this leaves 8 confirmed townies and I have to

add to that total

. So it's 8 confirmed townies. 6 potential lynches. And me.
We lynch Aronis today again.

Tonight you don't shoot to not "whittle down my pool." Whatever that means but fine.
I kill Talah. Venmar doesn't succeed in protecting her.
I come in and confirm Oversoul.
Start Day 6: 8 confirmed townies. 4 potential lynches. And me.
We lynch Peregrine.
You don't shoot.
I kill Venmar.
I come in and confirm Prof Fridays.
Start Day 7: 8 confirmed townies. 2 potential lynches. And me.
We lynch TIP.
You don't shoot.
I kill... it doesn't matter who I kill.
If I kill ZZZX, I get lynched because he was the only player left for me to clear.
If I kill an already confirmed player, I get lynched because I have to clear ZZZX.

In this scenario I make it all the way to

Day 8

.
And I still lose.

Please illustrate how I win if I'm scum. The moment I stop handing out confirmed innos, I get lynched. The moment I hand out a false guilty, I get lynched.

There is not a scenario where I win this game.

Also, who was going to figure out the goo shenanigans? The only person I feel confident would have figured that out is Magua. Not for any personal insult type reasons, but because even with myself and him saying "This is how X got goo, this is how Y got goo," multiple people kept asking "Well how did this person get goo?"

[AGar]

Option B is to have talah track Agar and Venmar protect talah. I will only accept the track result cause I don't trust the cop result because he could be godfather.

Talah doesn't track. Talah follows. Talah gets a result that basically says "X performed Y action last night" or whatever negative result Zor gives.

[AGar]

EBWOP: I am the worst at merging posts. >_>

Like I have won "unwinnable" games as scum before. I came within a fucking vengeshot most recently of winning a game where it really didn't seem at all possible. I fucked up my fakeclaim and still managed to

avoid being lynched in LYLO

.

This is not a game where scum wins period.

[AGar]

Pretty much anyone with yellow goo is clear.

[AGar]

Actually she can clear two people : the person she jailkept and Brian Skies if it wasn't Agar and Venmar/Agar if it was.

I'm not sure I follow how her JKing me clears me/Venmar exactly, but everything else seems kosher. I'm fine with that plan.

[AGar]

There was a kill last night. If you were jailkept that couldn't happen (clears you)
If she didn't jailkeep you, then that clears Venmar because he blocked my kill.

I guess I misspoke in saying the jailkeep of you clears the two of you, I meant knowing her jail keep lets us know info about you/Venmar/Brian Skies.

Oh. Ok, now I see. Makes sense.

[AGar]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHADOWEH.

Magua, I read, understand and will comply with the plan. I'll even make sure to submit the action the moment I see the thread is locked, pinky swear.

You don't even need to read much right now. Here's the deal.

- We broke the game open yesterday with goo.
- There is one scum left, and he or she is among {PeregrineV/ZZZX/TIP/Professor Fridays/Aronis/Oversoul/Brian Skies} and in theory {myself/Venmar}
- You, Magua, Juls, Metal Sonic, Bulba, and Cheery are cleared as not the scum.
- We have your role, my track, and Juls as a vig, with Venmar being a bodyguard.
- We are systematically decimating the scumbag.

[AGar]

Yeah p. confident PV is scum.
Town would have read everything, seen that we have shit in hand and been like 'Man, it sucks to get lynched but this is literally signed sealed and delivered. GG scum.'

[AGar]

Regular

Original Roll String: 1d29

1 29-Sided Dice: (4) = 4

Lylo

Original Roll String: 1d14

1 14-Sided Dice: (8) = 8