Mafia with the Quickness 2 GAME OVER!

[Sugoku Sugoi]

And I don't think continuing this is productive if we're going to go about it this way. We really should be lynching SleepyKrew.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

if jason is town i can absolutely see you two being scum, yes. now please stop putting words in my mouth (i'm not buying mollie's

pie isn't obvtown, sorry. and your play fitting your town meta to a T doesn't mean jackshit to me either, especially with you being the first one to say it.

hi. back on D2 you had been calling every single push I was making "pretty legit".

was it really just our behavior re: Slan wagon that changed your opinion of our slot?

bc that is at its heart a bullshit BOP angle and you 180'ing your read on me based off just that doesn't make any sense at all. I can imagine if you didn't have a read on us before, or if there were more reasons than that, but there's none of that here. on the other hand, there's a metric fuckton of scum motivation I can think of for doing such a thing (buddying helium, posturing for a mislynch on us down the road, etc.), not to mention this is the exact same bullshit angle you pushed on me last time as scum.

and if you really believed all this, why vote Oversoul? from your POV you think jason is scum AND lynching him would solidify your read on us one way or the other. what makes Oversoul a better lynch than jason?

there is so much cogdis here it's not funny

[Sugoku Sugoi]

yes

so you should be able to see why if jason is scum you are conftown to me, but if jason is town and you were dragging your feet on a slandaar wagon while pushing your jason mislynch that maybe i might think your push on now confirmed town jason wasn't so legit

that is unrelated to my point

when you called my push "pretty legit", you didn't know what jason's alignment was. thus you must have had some reason for thinking it was "pretty legit" that was

unrelated to jason's alignment.

however, you seem to have completely forgot about this, in favor of this jason dichotomy that at its heart is nothing but a BOP fallacy. this read progression makes literally no sense and on the other hand has a shitton of possible scum motivation.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

and again, you two being so concerned with me 180ing a read

that i haven't even 180ed yet and had no intention of doing so before this conversation started

is extremely weird

if you "had no intention of doing so before this conversation started", then what the hell was that entire discussion with helium all about? and if you hadn't 180'd the read yet, you wouldn't have said I wasn't obvtown, when you had thought so before.

this is bullshit and I get the feeling you're trying to intimidate me in order to make me stop my push on you.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

yeah, i have a question

in which universe does any of that make sense?

his read progression on me doesn't add up. he originally said every push I made was "pretty legit" - however, now all of a sudden that devolved into "your push isn't pretty legit after all if jason is town" with no other explanation right when you were making a push on us.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

i was telling juls that the conviction behind your jason push was legitimate and that it was something you are known for. i also think you are capable of faking that as scum, especially in a hydra with f16 and especially in a game with this mechanic where your #s 1a and 1b weaknesses as scum (keeping your activity up and faking ~town wrath~) are nullified.

how would this mechanic allow me to fake either of those things?

if anything I'd think short DL's would make it harder for me to fake activity, not easier. the standard of activity would be higher than in a normal game and I would end up standing out more.

and I don't see how day length has anything to do with 1b. this doesn't make much sense and I'm not convinced this response checks out.

let me ask you something: if you jason is town, why didn't you get him lynched d2?

I agree w/ you that if jason is town AND the scumteam was aiming for a mislynch they could have pushed through the jason mislynch. however, I'm not convinced that the scumteam wasn't just bussing Slan from the start, especially when we have other ppl in our POE pool (you) pushing this angle on jason down the road. this is even more so the case when I know you in particular to be one of those players who are inclined to bus and wouldn't put it past anyone in here to hard bus from the get go.

mb I'm worrying about it too much

[Sugoku Sugoi]

SKrew: I don't see how your logic makes any sense whatsoever. saying helium is scum based on one post where they didn't mention NS is a huge stretch and makes way too many assumptions. (e.g. they could just as well be town who just didn't bring up NS in that post)

and another thing: why can't a townie miss the crumbs too? you say the scumteam didn't pick up on the mason crumbs, but you have the logic backwards. if we assume scumteam didn't figure it out then:

"jason is scum" -> "jason didn't pick up on the mason crumbs" is correct
"jason didn't pick up on the mason crumbs" -> "jason is scum" is incorrect.

and besides that, don't you imagine at least one scum would have figured it out? it was p fucking obvious. it's almost impossible that the entire scumteam missed it, especially if they did rolecop SS and got back mason. don't you imagine they'd try to figure out who the partner is in that case?

overall you're stretching way too much, unless I missed smth

[Sugoku Sugoi]

why WOULD they mention speedy there? this is exactly why I think you're stretching way too hard here

the 2nd line was p obviously referring to jason. and my point was the first scenario is outright incorrect from a logic POV. you're saying that, since jason missed the crumb, he's scum. the problem is, the scumteam may have missde the crumbs, but that doesn't mean that, if someone misses the crumb, they're scum, since a townie could have missed it too - you're selectively applying this logic to jason but NOT any of the other ppl.

none of this makes any sense and I'm having trouble believing it's a genuine argument

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Why DID they mention Speedy? I don't know. Ask them.

*NS

none of your other answers look legitimate either. it's still a huge fucking stretch to make p much all the assumptions you made and you saying "scum might do dumb things" isn't enough to justify it.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

We just have a day left and we need to consolidate our votes especially the one and two person wagons. SleepyKrew's latest posts felt scummy to me so I am not sure what you are seeing there as town, Arthur.

My initial worry about SleepyKrew came about when most of his push on Jason relied on rhetoric rather than any real substance. When the actual case finally came in Post 2399, it was incredibly weak. While a part of me hesitating in scumreading him for it since he prefers being scum and would supposedly put more effort there, this came much after it was pointed out by several people that he prefers playing scum so I am not writing it off as too bad to be scum.

I don't buy his commuter claim, and I don't like the timing of it. For all that Helium said about Arthur's claim being in response to the possibility of vengekill, SleepyKrew's claim seems to have accomplished just that.

His latest posts where he argues with Helium about the Mason claims are just bad and I don't follow his logic for scumreading them at all nor do I follow why he is scumreading Jason and Post 2451 makes literally no sense. I half get the feeling he is just trolling at this point.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I found Oversoul's jump on Skrew scummy and I asked Pie if he wanted to go that way. I'm again unsure which is the best lynch yet and I don't know what made OS suddenly place his vote on Skrew. It is possible he is bussing but I don't know.

I went through SleepyKrew's ISO and one of the things that don't make sense to me is why he switched from Jason to Slandaar here. With the wagons at close to the same strength, if he believed so strongly and so certainly in his Jason read, I assumed he'd want to push it through to completion. The switch to Slandaar feels more like resignation that the wagon will go through and not wanting to look bad by not bussing.

9th vote count of day 2:

Slandaar

(6): Hoopla, helium-3, Ser Arthur Dayne, Desperado, Oversoul, Nobody Special

jasonT1981

(4): Feu et Vol, Sugoku Sugoi, Speedy Saki, SleepyKrew

Speedy Saki

(2): jasonT1981, Slice of Life

Nobody Special

(1): Juls

Not Voting

(2): Perpetual Nonsense, Slandaar

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Day Two will end in (expired on 2014-06-23 09:00:00)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Slandaar

L-1

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I still think his recent play is reminiscent of my play in reck's game that I linked where I was town.

In what way?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

You should stop confbiasing us and realize that Skrew's rubbish attack on you not knowing the masons = scum is probably because he is scum.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Okay, Pie is on board with Skrew lynch so this is where we are going to keep our vote.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

What was wrong with the timing of his claim?

he claimed right before shos got lynched and when there wasn't much of a chance he would get lynched although he did have a few votes on him. it was also up in the air and not obvious at all who would get vengekilled, so from a town POV there wasn't much of a need for him to claim - however, it makes a shitton more sense from a scum POV. commuter is also conveniently a rly easy fake claim for scum.


oversoul is a fine lynch but I still prefer a SKrew lynch. I agree with F-16 his jump on the Slan wagon came out of absolute nowhere and makes a shitton of sense as him-scum cutting Slan loose.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

>leaning town on speedy for "gut feeling"
>speedy is a mason

[Sugoku Sugoi]

wrt bold: didn't sad do this too?

yeah but his was a gambit and had a lot more town motivation

like SAD fake mason slipping to draw a NK seems like a plausible gambit someone would do. and it doesn't make any sense for him to fake gambit as scum considering he was completely off the radar for a vengekill in the first place.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I don't think I get your point re: 1st point?

I disagree w/ the 2nd point. shos's attention wasn't focused on SAD in any way - he was considering jason, SS, and skrew as venge targets without much mention of anyone else, nor was SAD under very much pressure at day end.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

We're done (or rather I am a person that thinks impatience is a virtue which is part of the reason I was so excited about 4 day deadlines).

[Sugoku Sugoi]

lmfao

best twilight ever

E

[Sugoku Sugoi]

D

[Sugoku Sugoi]

R

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I

[Sugoku Sugoi]

A

[Sugoku Sugoi]

O

[Sugoku Sugoi]

B

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Oversoul, full claim please.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

FUCKING YES! EAT THAT, SLEEPY!!

^scum gloating

Why would scum be gloating.....at the lynch of another scum.

Stop stretching, you are sounding as bad as Sleepy.

To be fair, you had a whole day to let this sink in. When Sleepy flipped scum, Pie and I were high fiving each other in the hydra QT. Then we posted in the neighborhoods about it. Now the excitement has winded down and we are ready to move onto the next day. I don't get why you are excited at this point since you had a lot of time to let the flip sink in.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

@ Singer, I am not sure why exactly you are scumreading us but wanting to recruit someone not in the other neighborhood was more out of a desire to interact with as many players as possible in both neighborhoods while also exposing more players to the content in both of the neighborhoods. I am surprised you are still scumreading us after Skrew's scumflip when we were a major reason for pushing the wagon back on track.

I don't get why people are still scumreading Fue Et Vol after Marquis's latest posts. His frustration felt genuine and his read on SleepyKrew is one that I can understand. It was a similar reason to why I was townreading Skrew early D1 as well.

I am conflicted on Jason but I think Oversoul is a better lynch. His votes on SleepyKrew and Slandaar were both naked votes that came late on the wagon. The lack of explanation for votes makes sense for scum bussing since scum don't feel the need to justify their votes on buddies as much as townies. That's part of the reason that made me think Skrew could still be scum even if OS was scum.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Mollie, Post 2718 was me (F-16).

The reason Singer neighborized Desp instead of you was because I suggested it. She read the game and said she'd probably neighborize either Helium or Desp. I suggested Desp. I don't think she was scumreading me at that time. I also think she thought Fue would neighborize her but I wasn't able to persuade Fue to do it, so Desp ended up in both neighborhoods.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

And as to why Desp wasn't killed, I suppose scum don't want to lose daytalk.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

@ Singer, I am not sure why exactly you are scumreading us but wanting to recruit someone not in the other neighborhood was more out of a desire to interact with as many players as possible in both neighborhoods while also exposing more players to the content in both of the neighborhoods.

so how did this happen?

I mean where both neighborhoods recruited desp?

you suggested it to singer, and she followed through but what happened with feio?

Marquis said that he didn't want to because he preferred an "all-town" neighborhood and chose Desp. This was late last night and I didn't have a chance to respond or persuade him.

Neighborize list:

Singer/Juls
N1: Juls neighborized Sugoku
N2: Juls tried to neighborize Hoopla but Hoopla got nk'd
N3: Juls neighborized JasonT1981
N4: Singer neighborized Desperado

Fue Et Vol
N1: Speedy Saki
N2: Perpetual Nonsense
N3: Sugoku Sugoi
N4: Desperado

[Sugoku Sugoi]

My point about AtE was that it was completely unnecessary as a hydra to give us any explanation. He said he didn't want to replace out but if beast kept going who cares? Apologize to your hydra partner not us. It felt like a really contrived way to make us more sympathetic to his pressure/stress.

I'll look back at SKrew but pushing a wagon back onto a scummy player isn't really that town-telling?

But their last few posts in their ISO felt incredibly genuine and Marquis doesn't strike me as the type of player who is manipulative to that extent. I don't see why apologizing to us is contrived if he invested his time and the game and now needs to leave.

Mollie, all of your interactions with this slot from now on are going to be with Pie. I don't even know why I try being civil with you. Don't bother responding to this. I am done here.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Depends on the mod I guess. Zach and I sometimes go with 1 scum and 1 town neighborizers in my games when we use them (though that is not aways)

Encryptors I have never used for neighborhood. I have never even come across them for them.....neighborhoods are usually talk any time hence neighborhoods I have never ... encryptor is usually a scum role, and serves to allow scum to talk and only scum.

The BS SK threw at me, well he spent 4 days screaming I am scum, riling up everyone trying to get my lynch without doing any work himself, when he finally was forced to put his case, it was weak as hell and bullshit.

Why would he claim encryptor in his first post though? If he is scum, then he would have to have information about town neighborhoods existing and I'm not sure why he would be given that information.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I haven't discussed with Pie who we want to get lynched today but we're probably going to vote Oversoul or maybe Jason as a second choice. His suspicion of us was opportunistically timed.

I feel like we are distracting ourselves away from Oversoul who I can't see as town at all.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Well, Helium and Singer for a start. Feu as well.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

This is probably going to be the last wall I make since I'm going to be somewhat busy irl tomorrow onwards for a month or so. I'll still probably be able to check in every night but I suspect most of the time I have will go just for catching up with the thread so I'll address some of my reads and thoughts.

1) Desperado

: The way he claimed encryptor in his first post felt really town and considering that we are now aware that a scum encryptor exists, I find it unlikely that he is SleepyKrew's buddy and decided to just claim his role. I suppose it is possible but it just makes sense for him to be a town encryptor considering there are multiple neighborhoods and a masonry and I doubt he would know the layout of the game in a way that makes him claim make so much sense.

2) Helium3

: Obvtown, don't have much else to say about my read there. Mollie, there is a reason I don't want to interact with you and it is not because I'm scum. You started this game by complaining about Wicked, said you liked Pie and that you wanted to talk to him. I told you I was fine with that and stayed away from you. That didn't stop you from continuing to insult my posts claiming they caused you to "vomit" and posting more stuff about Wicked and complaining about my play. Also, I need to tell you this, everyone that doesn't interact with you aren't scum. I read a few games that you were in and you went down this same rabbit hole with Bulbazak in Chain of Command, Waffles in The Recknoning, Chamber in Wicked, and Ffery in the game I modded, in Song Contest, and in some other large game I don't recall. None of them were scum. Hoopla made a really good point in that your playstyle basically involved pissing people off to try and get a read on them and that's not somewhere I want to go in this game. Your playstyle involves saying stuff like "

F16's posts make me wanna vomit they are just like the crappy vacuous wishy washy meta reads as he did in wicked that every1 bought hook line and sinker

" and then complaining that people are "marginalizing you" based on your playstyle. But playstyle is kind of the reason I don't feel into getting into a back and forth with you that will lead nowhere and caused Juls to go "high school fucking drama" and replace out. It should be rather obvious to anyone that can read me that I'm town here. If you think I fooled Tammy who's played a dozen games with me into townreading me, you are way off and you should probably listen to the read of someone who has a near perfect track record. Also, there is no reason I would push the SleepyKrew lynch back on track after Arthur went after Oversoul if I was scum here. Don't you see the difference between my bus on Ossy and my pushes here? Nacho and I were forced to bus Ossy, we had no other choice. Here, we could have swayed the direction of the wagons, we could have gone after OS and Jason, even you were saying Skrew could likely be town. I wouldn't have tried to consolidate votes there and try to get everyone back on track as it would just be a suboptimal scum move. Why do you think Pie abandoned our Jason push and turned around and voted Skrew at a point when Jason lynch was possible? We just had a realization that everything Skrew was doing felt scummy and we couldn't see him as town and wanted to lynch him first. Anyways, my best guess at scum right now is probably Jason and Oversoul especially Oversoul who is really doing nothing at this point. Quit letting the fact that you don't like me distract you from actual scum.

3) Arthur

: I'm reading Arthur as town for several reasons not least are his pushes on SleepyKrew and Slandaar. Until about D3, Arthur's reads with mine overlapped quite well but I don't get the whole "one of Helium or Sugoku" thing in Post 2577. I agree that from your POV, it is unlikely that Helium and us are scum together but I'm not calling Helium scum at all. We're town and Helium's one of our strongest townreads. We're not asking you to re-evaluate Helium even. I think you ought to re-evaluate your other reads because we're both town. I am decently sure you are right on Oversoul although I really have no idea who the other scum is and Pie and I just wondered if it was that simple and it was Jason/Oversoul after all. We could be wrong somewhere in our townreads but we are reading everyone as town to some extent so I'd rather actually get those lynches first and see where we went wrong if town hasn't won the game by then.

I'm worn out at this point, will probably post later.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Singersigner

, I am somewhat disappointed in your posts towards us since the point you replaced in. In that short space of time, you claimed that we were manipulative, whiteknighting, and didn't try to understand our POV at all.

I don't understand why the first thing you did is look at who else is the other neighborizer and tried to find a way to scumread them rather than looking at the game as a whole. And when we said Fue was town, your automatic reaction is that we are whiteknighting. I develop reads mostly through POE, and try to form townreads and most of the time, I focus on who is not town as opposed to develop scumreads with first establishing who I think is town. I sometimes have really strong townreads as well that I'd defend to the death and it is demotivating to be told I'm whiteknighting everytime it happens. I "white-knight" when I'm scum because I try to mimic my town playstyle but you are not even asking why we have a townread on Feu.

We weren't trying to manipulate you in the neighborhood by saying that we'd prefer different people be recruited into both neighborhoods. I said this already but we wanted to talk to as many people as possible and expose them all to the content there. For instance, it doesn't really help us all that much that we can talk to Desperado in two different private threads. It felt redundant from my POV. I guess it doesn't from yours and that's fine but it is not because I'm trying to manipulate you.

As for Fue, I explained what happened. I told them to add you to the neighborhood and they refused. I didn't think they would since Beast had brought it up as a good idea before but Marquis decided not to. I wish they didn't since I was townreading both them and your predecessor and I wished you could see what they posted there so that you both don't go after each other.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

If you think I fooled Tammy who's played a dozen games with me into townreading me, you are way off and you should probably listen to the read of someone who has a near perfect track record.

hey remember when you thought mastin saying this about rancid made him the scummiest scum to ever scum?

cuz i remember that

I know and I am not saying Mollie is scum for thinking I am scum for that reason. I just want her to see she's wrong and not get distracted by pushing us and let Jason/OS get away.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I'm not sure what you are getting at since Mastin was town. Rephrase that again.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I obviously don't think it is always scummy now that Mastin flipped town but it depends on the circumstances.

I don't think about whether something is "scummy" or not when I post it as town. Mollie is making a show out of how she correctly scumread me in a single game (which wasn't even based on alignment-indicative stuff, the things she said were scummy was stuff I would have probably done as town anyways and is more based on our playstyles being so different and clashing) so I pointed out that someone with a much better track record (Tammy) was reading me as town.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

a doubled up neighborizer claim

This is a decent point but it doesn't mean that one of them have to be scum. It would actually be horrible game balance to have a scum and a town neighborizer since the first inclination for most players would be to lynch one of them especially if there are also Masons. I'm not buying doubled up neighborizer claim as a reason to lynch them.

>a distant and weird beastcharizard

I don't know what you mean by this.

>NS mysteriously keels over once it leaks in their neighborhood that he's a mason

It is possible Slandaar rolecopped him considering he made hints about knowing that Speedy Saki was town. Hoopla is likely the other person that was rolecopped. Imperium kill was obvious. I doubt scum would kill anyone else N1.

>a less-than-awesome looking hammer of Slice of Life

Why would scum-Fue burn towncred by hammering someone that a whole ton of people wanted lynched just to end the day quickly?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

VOTE: Oversoul

Someone hammer so we can get this flip and move on with quickness.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

UNVOTE:

I have no clue at this point. Maybe it is Singer after all. I need a break from this game. Will check back in when I feel like thinking about it.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

vote: oversoul (L-1)

we have townreads of some degree on everyone besides oversoul and at this point idk who could be scum if it's not him. I have no idea who the other scum is.

I hate oversoul's recent posting. his reaction to the votes on him was "they're not voting me for things I did", as opposed to refuting the arguments against him. 2844 is complete bullshit and I feel like he's twisting evidence around to suit his argument - he didn't join the wagon till it was the L-1 vote.

jason looks really town recently.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

@desp:

how sure are you D2 couldn't play out the way it was if jason is town?

bc I read everything you're posting and while I agree with what you're saying, I still get the feeling it's possible scum was just bussing slan. for an example of what I mean, take a look at (sigh) this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=32587

for reference, BRO, zmuffin, and Psychlone were scum. ISO the mod and look at the D1 vote counts. BRO was the leading wagon with both scum votes on it near the end of D1 - if they wanted a mislynch on TNE, they could have easily got one, but they didn't bc they were hard bussing BRO the whole time.

the whole point of bussing is to fly under the radar and get towncred and I don't see why it necessarily couldn't have happened here.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I doubt it is Arthur because he was the driving force between two scum lynches.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I don't know, I am less sure about Jason, at least part of it is based on Tammy's meta townread on him.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

But you should totally hammer Oversoul.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

or the scum bussed slandaar late (oversoul and ???; the last scum in this scenario could be pretty much anyone)

what I'm wondering is why it's not this one. SKrew was pushing jason really hard which basically shows there was at least some initial scum push for jason. but looking at the VCs, I could potentially see scum choosing to bus jason late as opposed to going for a jason mislynch. this would make me look at oversoul and one of {juls/singer, PN}.

like in that game I linked, neither of the other 2 scum got any towncred from the BRO lynch when he finally was lynched, and I still don't understand why your entire team in playing card bussed each other.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Lynching scum more important than future VCA.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Ugh but I'm digging this Slanderous lynch and don't want to divert and I'm really really lazy
Can jason wait till D3?

SKrew said this and he wasn't even on the Slan wagon

this basically proves that scum decided to cut Slan loose at whatever point, but I can't figure out if it's bc they were stalling and trying to figure out whether it was worthwhile to bus or if it's bc both wagons were on scum.

also, do you mind giving me a quick rundown on your Juls/singer scumread again? bc looking at the D4 VCs both Juls and feu were off the SKrew wagon. we agree singer has been p underwhelming so far and now I'm thinking we might have been wrong about Juls.

but on the other hand she had some really genuine sounding notes and I agree w/ your point about feu. idk how to make any sense out of this

[Sugoku Sugoi]

who, if anyone, do you think bussed SKrew?

if PN is scum they went from late bussing Slan D2 to bussing SKrew from the start D4 and then unvoting for some reason. but idk how this is affected if jason is scum with Slan.

oversoul's late vote makes a shitton of sense as a bus vote especially when you factor in the Slan vote D2.

plus, if oversoul was the only one bussing:

7th vote count of day 4:

SleepyKrew

(4): Perpetual Nonsense, jasonT1981, Sugoku Sugoi, Oversoul
Oversoul (2): Ser Arthur Dayne,

Desperado

jasonT1981 (2):

Speedy Saki

,, Feu et Vol
Sugoku Sugoi (1): helium-3
Feu et Vol (1): Juls

Not Voting (1):

SleepyKrew

Final vote count of day 4:

SleepyKrew

(6): jasonT1981, Sugoku Sugoi, Oversoul, Perpetual Nonsense, Ser Arthur Dayne,

Desperado

jasonT1981 (3):

Speedy Saki

, Feu et Vol,

SleepyKrew

Sugoku Sugoi (1): helium-3
Feu et Vol (1): singersigner

Not Voting (0):

that would mean there's a scum vote off the SKrew wagon and it makes me think one of the neighborizers is scum.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

well yeah but who else do you think bussed him?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

apparently the only thing marquis knows how to do is push pushpushspuskhpush jason even though it's beoming increasingly apparent he's not scum. static scumreads that just PLOP sit there.

this is a good point and the main thing making me think they might be scum. that, and the fact they make sense from a voting POV.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Well yes I am trying to survive. Would it be better town play to just lay here and let you all lynch me?

>I am trying to survive
>I was about to self-hammer out of spite

[Sugoku Sugoi]

if you were trying to survive you wouldn't resort to making comments about self-hammering

it's a typical scum play - "oh look at me, I have all the emotion town has", without actually showing any of it. and now that you've said you're trying to survive bc it's "good townplay", that makes it look even worse.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

You are wrong on us but probably right about Oversoul so hammer.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

hi. can you tell marquis to get in here and walk me through his scumread on jason?

also I think jason's been p obvtown recently and I wanna know his thoughts on 1. why he thinks SKrew/jason interactions are bussing and 2. his thoughts on jason's reactions to oversoul and him. plz and thx

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Hopefully oversoul flips scum but I seriously don't like Singer's posts. Singer, I've heard about your reputation and that you can obvtown yourself as town. So far, I've been underwhelmed.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I'm pretty sure it is for the forum's actually.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I could have sworn I read a game in Nacho's wiki a long time ago (I was meta'ing Nacho at the time) and you seemed fairly obvtown. Nacho even commented on his wiki that he thought he as scum should have pushed on you because you were obvtown. Can't find it now since Nacho revamped his wiki and I don't remember the game name either. I'll try and find it if you want though.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

1) Sugoku Sugoi - Town
2) helium-3 - Town

At least one of these three are scum

3) Perpetual Nonsense
4) jasonT1981
5) Ser Arthur Dayne

At most one of these two are scum

6) Feu et Vol
7) singersigner (replaces Juls)

There could be two town neighborizers but I'm not buying that there are two scum neighborizers. That means there is at least one scum, if not more among PN, Jason, and Arthur. I have no idea who it could be.

Bert has somewhat faded out of the game and I want him to get back in here and start posting more content. Jason, I don't know. Skrew did go down saying Jason was scum and I am wondering if it is a bus. As for Arthur, I am townreading him basically for being right about Slandaar and Skrew.

If Fue is scum, it could be with PN or Arthur. I discount a Feu/Jason pairing. If Singer is scum, it could be with anyone. If neither are scum, then PN/Jason, PN/Arthur, and Jason/Arthur are all possible.

That's a lot of rambling to say anything is possible.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

At least one of these three are scum

3) Perpetual Nonsense
4) jasonT1981
5) Ser Arthur Dayne

I am less sure whether to trust Tammy's Jason townread at this point since it is obvious she was wrong about

some

townread.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

i think it's SAD/feu

What do you think of Feu's thoughts in the neighborhood?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I don't get why you are still going "one of Helium or Sugoku is town but not both." It feels like shirking away from calling anyone scum. Helium is our strongest townread left in the game and the only one we are not re-evaluating at this point. I'm about ~95% sure that they are town and we know we are town. I flatly disagree with you saying both of us are not town. I can get it if we and helium were scumreading each other but they are literally the only players that I am very, very confident are town at this point so saying it is either us or them makes no sense.

You can claim first then.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

We're VT.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

VOTE: Perpetual Nonsense

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Bert has faded out of the game, is doing barely any scumhunting and not even trying to solve the game. More people should vote him.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

CAN MORE PEOPLE VOTE FOR BERT PLEASE. HE IS OBVIOUSLY SCUM HERE. HE IS POSTING EVERYWHERE IN OTHER GAMES, IN SITE CHAT, WHEREVER. BUT NOT HERE.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I think I mentioned this. I was browsing through Nacho's wiki to meta him and I came across a game I read but I don't remember now. I do remember that he said in his wiki that he regretted not going after obvtown-you.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

But he deleted everything in his wiki and revamped it and none of those old games are there.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

SXTLHGaiden is Bert's hydra partner. It is in the OP. I don't think he posted a lot though and I don't know him or played with him before. I know Bert decently well though and he is far less comfortable playing as scum.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I wasn't trying to "discredit" you. I found your posts underwhelming and not awesome. You came in, barely read anything but ISO'd your predecessor to see what her suspicions were, went after the other neighbor. You then started pushing on us as we pushed on you. Your play comes across as superficial and there is nearly nothing that I'd say is unfakeable. I did think some of your paranoia was townish though.

Bert is a heck of a lot more comfortable in his skin as town and a lot more uneasy when he is scum. Some of his D1 came across as townish but he has since then barely scumhunted or genuinely tried to figure out anyone's affiliation.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

It is for you. Why aren't you trying to figure out the game?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Sugoku is actually probably town. I think I let confirmation bias get in the way when I initially read Juls' thoughts, but I can't see a lot of their recent arguments coming from scum anymore. I also think pushing a meta case on Bert is pretty town.

Why is it town?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Who do you think is town then? Who are you trusting? Have they been right so far?

Sugoku and Helium. They have been accurate for the most part.

This feels like an odd read. If I accused town-you of being scum, you'd be paranoid as fuck. Why aren't you now?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Cool. My vote is staying where it is.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Or someone could vote Jason and I'll quickhammer him.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

No, I am asking someone to place you in particular at L-1 so I can hammer.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Bert is scum. I played a game with him (Attack on Titan) that I was randomly re-reading at this time where he was a town miller and got townread (by Tammy) because she didn't think he would fake-claim miller as town. I think Bert as scum is afraid of Tammy and it feels like the sort of thing Bert would do to get a townread from someone he thinks is a threat.

Actually, let me go pull up that quote.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Subject: Mini 1537: ATTACK ON TITAN (Game Over!)

I'm a miller for real. Weak miller



/phone

Later y'all!!!!!

Bert is probs town, but I feel like I will be able to read him correctly soon enough. And I do agree with whoever said that Bert probably wouldn't fake claim miller as scum, because he just isn't comfortable enough with his scum game to do that.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Why are you being disengaged?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

3rd vote count of day 6:

jasonT1981

(2): Ser Arthur Dayne, Feu et Vol

Feu et Vol

(1): singersigner

Perpetual Nonsense

(1): Sugoku Sugoi

Not Voting

(3): Perpetual Nonsense, helium-3, jasonT1981

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 6 will end in (expired on 2014-07-08 10:00:00)

Okay, Bert feels somewhat genuine and I can deal with him later. C'mon guys, someone put Jason at L-1.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I posted at least two huge meta wall cases on you by now so I have no clue what you are talking about. Why are you still saying that there is no case on you?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Why aren't you trying to figure out who is scum?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

VOTE: SAD

how about this f16?

I'm really lost as to who is scum between Jason, Bert and Arthur. How sure are you that Bert is town? What do you make of him drifting out of the game?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

But there is definitely one scum there if not two.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

F-16 I'm town.

Like you know I'm town too so I don't understand why you're trying to play it off.

How do I "know" you are town? I am not the best at reading you and I misread you in NY169 so I'm not sure why you think I should know you are town.

All I am certain about is one thing: there is 1-2 scum among Arthur, Bert, Jason. I'm coming up empty handed as to who it could be. I pushed on Bert and he responded somewhat genuinely. I pushed at Jason and I am still ambivalent.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Arthur, who is your best guess for the scumteam?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I disagree with Feu. I think Singer is scummier. The only reason I am hesitant on her is because of Juls. I am sure what it says about Feu's affiliation.

I'm not sure what you mean by your last paragraph. If you are referring to Marquis's paranoia that you guys are going to make reasons for why he is scum in post 239 in the neighborhood, I think it could come from either affiliation. I remember Cabd in Wicked not wanting to neighborize CES because he assumed that all he would do was tunnel him and Penguin. I also think that if Marquis is a weak player (i.e. survivalistic), he as town would be paranoid about neighborhood stuff being used against him.

So, you saw all of their hydra discussion in the first few pages. What do you think of it?

Also, how sure are you about Bert being town? I was quite sure on D1 but him fading out while posting elsewhere concerned me. Also, his interactions with me aren't the same as in any previous game and he didn't seem as interesting in sorting me.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

*NOT sure what it says about Feu's affiliation.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I am not 100% sure on Feu. Pie is worried that the game makes more sense with Feu as scum. I'm still hung up on their hydra discussion in the neighborhood thread and Marquis's emotional breakdown a while ago.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Singer, would you rather I pretend I have reads I don't have? It wouldn't exactly be hard for me to as scum to fabricate "townreads" and "scumreads" that I'd be reasonably certain about.

I just hit a block. I don't know who is scum. It could be anyone really. Helium is the only one I feel did stuff beyond what scum are capable of. I also can't see Feu's emotional wall coming from scum. Bert is worrying me. Jason and Arthur are too. But I think we have a pretty good shot at hitting scum if we lynch among the three.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Except Arthur's "one of {Helium/Sugoku} are scum" makes literally no sense.

Whereas my saying that there is at least one scum in Arthur, Jason, and PN makes perfect sense.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I'm starting to feel like the last two are in SAD/Jason/PN/Fue

Why? Just a moment ago you were saying we were scum for leaving our options open. Before that, you said we were town for pushing Bert and before that you had as scum for being "manipulative." Can you walk me through your read progression here?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

So, why should I "know" you are town here, Arthur?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

So, why should I "know" you are town here, Arthur?

Because anyone who was able to write this about me:

6) Ser Arthur Dayne - Arthur's initial posts felt easygoing and natural tonally, and his frustration with Helium3 in Post 248 felt particularly genuine especially when he was getting grilled about why his quote should be ignored and wondering if they were trying to reaction test him. I also really like his reaction in Post 503 and the dayvig Helium and asking if Juls would be okay with the lynch felt like he was genuinely trying to sort Juls. While we disagree with his Post 511, it felt like he actually thought he caught scum and I can see it coming from a town POV especially when he provides his reasoning in Post 520 which actually makes a lot of sense. His wanting to leave Tammy alone in Post 585 also matches up with how I know he sorted her in NY169 and I really love his confident response to Slice in Post 660 about Tammy being able to read him best.

Should know I am town because this is literally hitting everything on the head and rarely does anyone get this good at reading me.

For that to evaporate away is worrying.

At the time I wrote it, I was townreading everyone now alive (except for Jason). There are likely two scum remaining so I was obviously wrong on someone and I am trying to figure out who it is. Yes, all the stuff you did there was townish. But it is not absolutely impossible to fake. It is obvious I am wrong

somewhere

and that means I need to re-evaluate all of my townreads (except Helium who I think did stuff that was unfakeable).

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I dunno, more valid than you thinking I could be scum at this point. So what about other than those two? How do you actually feel about the game state? Who might jason's buddy be?

I actually don't think you're scum anymore since I reread Juls.

Honestly leaning towards Sugo being Jason's partner.

Maybe Bert, though the Sugo push on them reads weird.

LOL. So, when Jason was being townread by quite a few players, we and Skrew decided we'd bus the fuck out of him for no reason at all and post massive meta cases on him and try to get him lynched or vengekilled?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Sugo, to explain further:

If you had wrote that as town I would expect you to be able to remember it and be able to still think I'm town because of it - because you know in 169 where I said rarely do people actually read me good as how I feel you/Tammy read me.

If you had wrote that as scum you could've easily been putting things that I wanted to see to make you think I'm town, because I don't doubt you can fake that type of genuine reading as scum.

You expected me to correctly read you in NY169 and when I didn't, you scumread me because town-me apparently should be able to read you better.

Now, if I am apparently reading you wrong, you are pushing me based on BOP because the only way I could apparently be wrong is if I am scum which makes no sense as I've been wrong as town in the only game we played together.

You comparing my ability to read you to Tammy's (who's played tons of games with you here and are apparently offsite as well) feels manipulative as fuck. It reminds me of FoxHound in Tales where DV pointed out my early townread of him as a reason for why I shouldn't scumread him then.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Hun I don't remember half this game.

But if it's the part you're talking about, where SKrew got lynched - then yes, it was a valid strategy since Jason became a strong townread after SKrew's lynch.

Jason never became a strong townread for me. I think Pie found him town at times but I was null on him.

But I am talking about D1. A Skrew lynch was never on the table when I made my meta case on Jason.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Are you even still evaluating players.

Whereas my saying that there is at least one scum in Arthur, Jason, and PN makes perfect sense.

AT LEAST 1?

Gee that's awfully concrete reads.

You're telling me you put 3 people - want one of them lynched, and think there might just be one of them that is scum.

1) Of course, I'm evaluating players, interacting with all of you/Bert/Jason and evaluating your responses to develop my reads.

2) I just said I don't have concrete reads. I don't know what you hoped to gain by pointing it out.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

You comparing my ability to read you to Tammy's (who's played tons of games with you here and are apparently offsite as well) feels manipulative as fuck. It reminds me of FoxHound in Tales where DV pointed out my early townread of him as a reason for why I shouldn't scumread him then.

I sure was very manipulative in 169 too

I just think that they're one of the few people who should clearly see I'm town because they have experience with me and because I feel like they're one of those few people like Tammy who can read me good.

You may have legitimately thought that in NY169.

But now you know.

I was town in NY169 and read you wrong.

So you should no longer be giving me a can-read-Arthur card.

And you should no longer expect me to read you correctly.

But yet, you are doing it here.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

1) Of course, I'm evaluating players, interacting with all of you/Bert/Jason and evaluating your responses to develop my reads.

So how do you brush aside one of you ~MAJOR~ points on me RE: you/helium without even stating if you like the response or not, or if you think it's fake/genuine/etc.

I read your response. I don't see a reason for you to create a Helium/Sugoku dichotomy at all. I mean, we don't make sense as scum with plenty of players, like Jason for a start. Helium doesn't make sense with Feu. Helium doesn't make sense with Juls/Singer. I don't understand why Sugoku/Helium is any sort of dichotomy in particular or why you are mentioning it at all.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

But yet

You are still showing insight into my play that people rarely reach.

I don't want to pull an OS/mastin card, but when you're showing familiarity into my play, I will assume you are able to read me, and I don't care how many game we've played together - you might be experienced with the playstyle/etc, it doesn't matter to me at all.

So when you then go back on that read when it seemed so genuine and nailed in the first read, I'm only left to think it was falsely tailored to my liking.

Are you actually kidding me?

Reads change. Not go back on my reads means to assume that all of my D1 reads are correct. Which I'm not arrogant enough to think. I had eleven townreads D1. At least one of them is definitely wrong.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Wow, you are seriously scum, aren't you? You are drowning out our argument with a bunch of overblown rhetoric in Post 3101 and Post 3103 and making BS claims about how I should be able to read you. I also don't know what about my initial read was so groundbreaking. I found a bunch of things that looked townish and thought that you were very likely town. You weren't my strongest townread and none of those things are impossible to fake. Now that I know I'm wrong somewhere, I am re-evaluating my reads.

Your claim that I know your playstyle and that my initial townread was so awesome is holy crap manipulative.

VOTE: Ser Arthur Dayne

[Sugoku Sugoi]

It won't be a hammer. You are good to vote.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

"I think blank and blank are scum but let's push away from the bigger wagon because in reality that's my scum partner and I'm trying to look like I supported his lynch if he flips first"

Lol?

No I legit still think Jason is scum and fully don't expect anyone to join me on Sugo and will switch back.

What a prime example of someone who has no hope in reading me.

I thought you said I was scum. If I am scum, my ability to read you is irrelevant to this game. Why are you commenting on it?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I thought you said I was scum. If I am scum, my ability to read you is irrelevant to this game. Why are you commenting on it?

What.

1) You are able to read me.

2) You are able to fake read me in a way (when you're scum) that would be to my liking/tailored to fit me correctly.

1) Incorrect. I read you wrong in the one game to play together so I have a zero percent accuracy rate.
2) Why would you think that?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

UNVOTE:

Going to discuss stuff with Pie. He feels that Arthur's posts reminded him of NY169 and I want to explore that first.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

was at anime expo

singer is fucking scum. shit went down in the neighborhood last night and she made a post that basically said: "I think you're scum bc 1. not wanting to level the playing field with neighborhoods gaining more info from each other, 2. defending a strong scumread of mine, 3. the way you're responding to me and completely

flipping my argument and misrepping 50% of what I'm saying

".

then when I left she backed off and said IN THREAD she couldn't see most of my arguments coming from scum - despite the fact all this took place IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. if she was legitimately town and thought we were town for the arguments we were pushing, she would have been in here sharing with the class exactly what she thought was town, since no one else knows wtf she's talking about. but instead she doesn't mention anything that happened in the neighborhood at all? "misrepping 50% of what I'm saying" is also scum debate strategy 101 and it makes absolutely 0 sense to suddenly go from that to thinking our arguments can't come from scum. she's trying to walk away and act like nothing happened knowing I wasn't there to push her.

marquis looks really town recently.

SAD's push on us in endgame is prob town. his rxn to ppl pushing him also reminds me of his indignation from NY169 where he quite obviously felt everything he saying was right and couldn't see how anyone could disagree w/ him, but given it seems like his style, I'm not 100% that he couldn't fake as scum.

jason and PN's endgame play is extremely underwhelming and makes me think one of them is 2nd scum. I also agree with F-16 that Bert claiming miller is smth he would do in order to fool Tammy.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

oh not to mention

I asked singer about her scumread on feu on the neighborhood and she immediately called it "manipulative". but then when she asked me about Desp's scumread on feu, I called it manipulative and her response was "how in the actual fuck can you think that's manipulative"

hardly ggs

[Sugoku Sugoi]

@helium:

talk to me about feu. we've been rereading them and I wanna cross check my notes with you.

I liked marquis' D1 play. everything about it. first off, his posting came off as very open - in particular I liked his early interactions with SAD, Tammy, me, and helium on a gut level.

there was also a definite feeling of him trying to move the game forward - as a specific point, the way he was using setup spec to develop reads came off as genuine - a lot of his early posts were focused on it, and his reaction to Juls' claim made a shitton of sense from someone who didn't know whether there could be 2 town neighborizers in the setup. in particular, 163 and then the line starting at 223 where he goes from questioning whether there could be 2 of the same roles, to figuring out what to do, to thinking juls is prob scum, and then the backoff felt genuine and it was also matched with a good amt of doubt as shown when he was fearing the possibility of a chain lynch. I also liked his frustration about ppl complaining about it thinking he's not capable of setup spec.

I liked his first Juls push a lot and in particular I liked 393

I liked how he felt lost starting from 876 - this game has had a good way of making ppl feel rly rly lost and this fits from that POV.

he hit all the right notes re: SS mason claim - you can tell he quite obv picked up on it and he handled it in the right way when he tried to stay silent about it and write it off to "gut". the progression in 1287 where he first reentered the thread to 1326 is p much indicative of this and doesn't make quite as much sense coming from scum. (speaking of 1287 I also agreed with his point re: active lurking)

the way he used his neighborizer felt rly town - he started with the person he KNEW was town and that he knows rly well, and tried to work from there. it makes a lot of sense from a town POV and is just about in line with what I'd try to do if I had a neighborizer role.

now his conviction re: jason reads town as fuck and makes a shitton of sense from someone who's been scumreading jason and hasn't been able to get them lynched the entire game. the only problem I'm having is after D1 they didn't do anything rly town until like D4 when he blew up, but at the same time the jason push is the only think making me think they might be scum. overall I feel a lot of their play comes from a town mindset even though there's no rly unfakeable notes.

F-16 agrees with all of this.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

this is all assuming helium is town which at this point I'm willing to bank

Spoiler: preliminary VCA

possible scumteams:

feu x SAD

feu x jason
feu x PN

feu x singer

SAD x jason
SAD x PN

SAD x singer

jason x PN
jason x singer

PN x singer

9th vote count of day 4:

SleepyKrew

(4): jasonT1981, Sugoku Sugoi, Oversoul, Perpetual Nonsense
jasonT1981 (3):

Speedy Saki

,, Feu et Vol,

SleepyKrew

Oversoul (2): Ser Arthur Dayne,

Desperado

Sugoku Sugoi (1): helium-3
Feu et Vol (1): Juls

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

10th vote count of day 4:

SleepyKrew

(4): jasonT1981, Sugoku Sugoi, Oversoul, Perpetual Nonsense
jasonT1981 (3):

Speedy Saki

,, Feu et Vol,

SleepyKrew

Oversoul (2): Ser Arthur Dayne,

Desperado

Sugoku Sugoi (1): helium-3
Feu et Vol (1): singersigner

Final vote count of day 4:

SleepyKrew

(6): jasonT1981, Sugoku Sugoi, Oversoul, Perpetual Nonsense, Ser Arthur Dayne,

Desperado

jasonT1981 (3):

Speedy Saki

, Feu et Vol,

SleepyKrew

Sugoku Sugoi (1): helium-3
Feu et Vol (1): singersigner

Not Voting (0):

afaict this one rules out both PN x singer and SAD x singer - in this scenario, singer can go to push a counterwagon on jason-town, but instead keeps her vote on feu-town (which is p much guaranteed to not go through) for whatever reason.

SAD x feu doesn't make sense either. SAD would be trying to start a counterwagon on oversoul town and then no one would follow him (not to mention SAD could join feu on jason-town wagon)

additionally, if feu is scum here and jason is town I don't understand why the last scum would go for SK over jason given 2 scum votes on the jason wagon already, although 1 scum on the bus would still make sense

22nd Vote Count of Day 1

shos

(6): Perpetual Nonsense,

Slandaar

, helium-3,

Not_Mafia

,

Hoopla

, jasonT1981

Not_Mafia

(5): Sugoku Sugoi, Ser Arthur Dayne,

Imperium

,

Speedy Saki

,

SleepyKrew

SaintKerrigan

(2): Oversoul,

Desperado

Oversoul (1):

Slice of Life

Juls (1): Feu et Vol
jasonT1981 (1):

shos

Not Voting (3): Juls,

Nobody Special

,

SaintKerrigan

23rd Vote Count of Day 1

shos

(8): Perpetual Nonsense,

Slandaar

, helium-3,

Not_Mafia

,

Hoopla

, jasonT1981,

SleepyKrew

, Juls

Not_Mafia

(4): Sugoku Sugoi, Ser Arthur Dayne,

Imperium

,

Speedy Saki

SaintKerrigan

(2): Oversoul,

Desperado

Oversoul (1):

Slice of Life

Juls (1): Feu et Vol
jasonT1981 (1):

shos

Not Voting (2):

Nobody Special

,

SaintKerrigan

24th Vote Count of Day 1

shos

(8): Perpetual Nonsense,

Slandaar

,

Not_Mafia

,

Hoopla

, jasonT1981,

SleepyKrew

, Juls,

Slice of Life

Not_Mafia

(4): Ser Arthur Dayne,

Imperium

,

Speedy Saki

, Sugoku Sugoi

SaintKerrigan

(2): Oversoul,

Desperado

Slice of Life

(1): helium-3
Juls (1): Feu et Vol
jasonT1981 (1):

shos

Not Voting (2):

Nobody Special,

SaintKerrigan

Final Vote Count of Day 1

shos

(10):

Slandaar

,

Not_Mafia

,

Hoopla

, jasonT1981,

SleepyKrew

, Juls,

Slice of Life

, Ser Arthur Dayne, Perpetual Nonsense,

Speedy Saki

SaintKerrigan

(2): Oversoul,

Desperado

Not_Mafia

(2):

Imperium

, Sugoku Sugoi

Slice of Life

(1): helium-3
Juls (1): Feu et Vol
jasonT1981 (1):

shos

Not Voting (2):

Nobody Special

,

SaintKerrigan

based on the way the momentum shifted, feu x SAD and singer x SAD don't make sense - they prob would have pushed the shos wagon in that case since there'd be more scum influence on it already

11th Vote Count of Day 1

Juls (5):

Desperado

, Sugoku Sugoi, Feu et Vol,

SleepyKrew

,

Not_Mafia

helium-3 (2): Juls, jasonT1981

Imperium

(1): Perpetual Nonsense

Slice of Life

(1):

Hoopla

SaintKerrigan

(1):

Slandaar

Ser Arthur Dayne (1):

Imperium

Speedy Saki

(1): Oversoul

Not_Mafia

(1): helium-3
Oversoul (1):

Slice of Life

Not Voting (5):

Nero Cain

, Ser Arthur Dayne,

Speedy Saki, Nobody Special,

SaintKerrigan

12th Vote Count of Day 1

Juls (5):

Desperado

, Sugoku Sugoi, Feu et Vol,

SleepyKrew

,

Not_Mafia

helium-3 (3): Juls, jasonT1981, Ser Arthur Dayne
Ser Arthur Dayne (2):

Imperium

, Perpetual Nonsense

Slice of Life

(1):

Hoopla

Oversoul (1):

Slice of Life

Speedy Saki (

1): Oversoul

SaintKerrigan

(1):

Slandaar

Not_Mafia

(1): helium-3

Not Voting (4):

Nero Cain

,

Speedy Saki, Nobody Special,

SaintKerrigan

this prob rules out feu x singer, especially given how hard feu was pushing juls the entire D1 after the wagon disbanded. if they were distancing/bussing here, it doesn't make much sense for a feu x SKrew team to have SKrew go and disband the wagon elsewhere while leaving feu on Juls the entire time.

tl;dr: feu x jason is p much insane given their constant pushes against each other - meaning at this point if feu is scum it has to be with PN. additionally, if singer is scum it has to be with jason. also, as stated before, the way D2/D4 played out makes a shitton of sense with all the wagons being on scum and there not being any major counterwagons.

at this point jason x singer is coming out of this looking the most likely. also, if jason is town, PN has to be scum bc nothing else works. lynching jason is prob the best move right now and also gives us a shitton of info.

thoughts?

fucking damn it

[Sugoku Sugoi]

did we read the same neighbourhood board?

this was all in thread. I don't wanna write them off as scum bc "they didn't do that much in the neighbor qt", especially when they already said they wanted to do most of what they did in thread.

funny, this sounds like more f16.

what do you think of sad's narrative about pn being scum cos they were given a fake miller claim like I am still laughing about this.

if it doesn't use caps it's pie. if it does it's F-16.

do you disagree w/ it?

SAD's comment about that was in relation to PN being ~town~ not scum - he originally said that right after he thought the claim looked genuine. in that context it makes a lot of sense (and then no one answered it). I'm p sure it's not that he thinks they're scum explicitly bc they were given a miller fakeclaim

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Why would I need to bother explaining why I felt like your arguments came from town when the first time you've been in the cross-fire has been with SAD?

bc

no one knows exactly what arguments you're talking about.

it doesn't do anything to say "their arguments look town" and then not tell everyone exactly what the arguments that looked town were.

I also already explained that my read changed because I took off my confirmation bias glasses and realized the only reason I was trying to rectify you-scum was because of Feu. *shrug* Sorry?

how does us "misrepping 50% of what you're saying" have anything to do with feu being scum?

like you thought we were misrepping you. what exactly made you change your mind on that specific point?

I don't get how this thought process makes any sense and this is why I think you're just trying to walk away

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Why do I have to convince other people or go out of my way to give people town reads on you if they either already had a town read or at the very least not a scum read? No one questioned it but you but you're the only one who cares that I do it....

original post:

Or imploding. Who do you think is town then? Who are you trusting? Have they been right so far?

Sugoku is actually probably town. I think I let confirmation bias get in the way when I initially read Juls' thoughts, but I can't see a lot of their recent arguments coming from scum anymore. I also think pushing a meta case on Bert is pretty town.

my point is you were explaining your townread on us, but your "explanation" doesn't do anything. if you were town and wanted to explain said read, I'd expect you to explain more than that so that ppl would have a better idea of what the hell you're talking about (like you couldn't put in a line that says "shit went down in the neighborhood last night, but I think the arguments they were pushing in there were town"?)

on the other hand it makes more sense in the context of trying to avoid everything that happened in the neighborhood, bc you didn't bring it up at all and didn't reference anything specific

Why do you think I'm trying to just walk away? If I still thought you were scum I would push you more, and if I was scum trying to push you as scum, I probably could very easily. What's my motivation for dropping it?

being worried about me nailing your ass to the wall if it continued in thread? there have been times when I argue with scum for so long that they give up and try to go somewhere else and act like nothing happened (e.g. BROseidon in attack on titan)

it's also cute how you drop a tell that you think you could argue me down as scum, right when I say you can't

[Sugoku Sugoi]

the 2nd one was him looking for an answer after he asked that question a while back and no one answered it. I thought the 1st one was him just thinking the claim looked fake, not necessarily that it was a given fake claim.

who are you looking at for scum besides SAD? I don't think I can be moved to an SAD lynch today.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

okay.

so where is the part where he thinks pn is town. cos that is what you said.

So I didn't want to lynch any of the neighbors till I actually looked at the neighborhoods, but since I haven't yet ( ) and there is so little people left, I kinda wanna look at the scummier of the two.

Right now where I'm at

PN's claim looks really genuine. Now that doesn't necessarily means they're town (I mean a scum could've gotten a fake-claim of miller), but I think the fact they claimed it early points more to the fact they're town.

Plus from what little I know about Bert he's read town early on.
Still think one of Sugo and Helium is town, and not both.
Jason I'm going paranoid over because I can actually see a SKrew vs Jason being planned scum on scum. If one of them does get lynched, the other would be in a good position.

So few people left :s

cos I just quoted where he said that he thought that pn was scum for the reasons that he gave.

like this literally just happened.

I'm almost positive you're misinterpreting this and we're just talking past each other at this point

I'm p sure of SAD town. his indignation re: us feels like what he did in NY169 where he believed he was obviously town and everything he was saying was obviously right and there was no way anyone could disagree with him although it's not quite at that level. also F-16 agrees with me from a VCA POV that if SAD had committed to a bus on SKrew he wouldn't go and vote oversoul.

where's mollie? what's her read on bert?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

vote: jason
L-1

we agree on helium, feu, and possibly SAD as town. we think this is our best shot

[Sugoku Sugoi]

DL is in 8 hours and neither PN or singer are doing fuck all

singer said she had a gut townread on jason but isn't doing shit to stop the wagon

is anyone around to swing a singer lynch?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

If Jason is town, Singer is almost certainly scum. Her play tonight worries me a ton. She knows that the deadline is tomorrow morning. She was here and posting in the thread but yet has done nothing to advance the game beyond getting into yet another pissing contest with us. Like I have no idea who she wants to lynch or what she wants to do with this day phase. She kept her vote on Feu Et Vol and hasn't even addressed the wagons on Jason and Arthur. Pie agrees with me that even though she has a gut townread on Jason, she isn't doing shit to stop the wagon.

We're totally down for pushing a Singer lynch instead if three other people log on during this time to swing the lynch. It is midnight where I am but I am not sure how long I'll stay awake. I may stay awake for a few more hours though.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

5th vote count of day 6:

Feu et Vol

(1): singersigner

Ser Arthur Dayne

(1): helium-3

jasonT1981

(3): Feu et Vol, Ser Arthur Dayne, Sugoku Sugoi

Not Voting

(2): jasonT1981, Perpetual Nonsense

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 6 will end in (expired on 2014-07-08 10:00:00)

Edited the votes to reflect the current votecount.

Jason doesn't actually make sense as scum with anyone else in the game. Pie is pretty convinced Arthur is town though and I really have no idea what to think of the game.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

you, helium, and possibly SAD are town. F-16 isn't as sure on SAD although he agreed with me that SAD-scum bussing SKrew-scum doesn't hop off to oversoul.

scum should be in {singer, jason, PN}. I'm most confident on singer but it's too late to wagon her.

F-16 is extremely troubled by the lack of a counterwagon to jason. he also disagrees with me ruling out singer x PN as a team bc singer may have just not had enough time to effectively push jason as a counterwagon to SKrew (and I kind of agree w/ him).

[Sugoku Sugoi]

if SAD was bussing SKrew what would his motivation be for getting off the SKrew wagon and trying to start a wagon on oversoul near DL?

it doesn't make sense from a scum POV. it'd make more sense to stay on the wagon to get the most towncred from the lynch

[Sugoku Sugoi]

SAD was pushing SKrew from the start. if he was scum, his plan would clearly have been to bus SKrew without letting up on it.

it wouldn't be a case of him needing, or even wanting, a counterwagon to SKrew. his motivation would be to bus from the get go

meanwhile he starts an oversoul wagon at the DL that doesn't have much of a chance of going through. which makes no sense from the POV of someone who is committed to the bus on SKrew.

do you disagree?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

he may or may not have been committed to a bus on skrew but what scumbag can turn down an opportunity to try and start a flash wagon on someone who sticks his foot in his mouth?

your psych. profile is way oversimplified.

IME ppl who plan busses out will stick with them and not bother trying to derail it. for an example of this go look at this game and ISO bork (zmuffin, BRO, and psychlone were scum) - zmuffin was basically the 1st vote on BRO the entire game and didn't appear to have any interest in derailing the lynch onto anyone else.

another example (which mollie should know) is what Desp did to Bulba in playing card. the only time he unvoted bulba on D1, the bulba wagon was only at 3 votes and all the pressure was shifting away.

so no, I'm about as confident about it as I can be at this point ~

[Sugoku Sugoi]

its called softbussing. throwing suspicion on a partner

but not carrying it through

cos I dunno, skrew was a scum special. there is huge motivation to vote a scummate all game only to get cold feet at the last minute. like omg

this is the part I disagree with

there is nothing that makes me think that, if SAD was bussing, he had any thought about not carrying it through. he could have got a metric fuckton of towncred for being the person who unequivocally led the lynch on SKrew. and then what happens if the oversoul wagon did go through? SKrew gets lynched down the line and everyone looks at SAD for pushing SKrew the entire day and derailing it for no reason.

it doesn't make much sense to do as scum, whereas it makes more sense to stay on the bus.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

why do you think SAD scum would try to derail the wagon as opposed to just cashing in SKrew and then pushing a case on oversoul for what everyone perceived as a bus vote?

^that right there is a far more effective method SAD could have done if he was scum. he would def have been able to get the oversoul mislynch in even if he had bussed SKrew first.

on the other hand trying to derail the wagon like that is almost too fucking obvious

now that I'm thinking about this more, he would have been playing this kind of suboptimally if he was scum

[Sugoku Sugoi]

just so I can relax are you all planning to hammer jason at DL?

it's the day before LYLO and I can't fucking sleep bc it feels like you all will refuse to hammer jason even though it's 100% antitown not to. we absolutely can't waste any lynch at all at this point.

plz and thx

[Sugoku Sugoi]

it's not a compromise lynch. I think jason is scum; F-16 is flipping out bc there's no counterwagon and he has no idea what to think about the game anymore, but at the end thinks jason has a good chance of flipping scum.

when I say day before LYLO I'm always talking about worst case scenario

I assume you disagree SAD wouldn't try to start a counterwagon if he was bussing SKrew?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

sad doesn't strike me as the type to stick his own neck out by backing out of a bus even if it could be done subtly.

there are much better tone and gut related reasons to scumread sad

idgi. this is exactly what he did and it's one of the main reasons I think he's town

[Sugoku Sugoi]

DL is in 50 minutes. please hammer before then

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Did Sugo have any say in that?

Nope.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Okay, five possibilities:

Arthur/Singer
Arthur/Feu
Arthur/PN

Feu/Singer

Feu/PN
Singer/PN

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I want to vote Arthur but I'm holding back so Pie can approve of it and to see which way the other votes fall.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Why are you pointing out null tells as scum tells?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I am 100% sure you are scum, Arthur. Good job so far. I'll be voting you as soon as Pie agrees that a vote is the right way to go. Start making your case.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

The temptation is strong right now. Like the only reason I haven't already voted is because I don't want Pie to feel like we are responsible for this loss when we've both had recent experience losing games and it would feel like crap if we got endgamed because we voted a townie a townie in LYLO yet again.

We're town. We're pretty damn sure Feu is town. Marquis's emotional meltdown - there is no way that came from scum. Now it is just a matter of figuring out which of

Singer/Arthur
Arthur/Bert
Singer/Bert

makes the most sense. Singer has Juls's replace out in her favor but has been underwhelming so far but then, Bert has been underwhelming too.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Arthur, in this possibility that we're town from our POV, who's the scum?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

If we're both town, who is scum?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I can't shake the feeling that Sugo is scum.

They have that post where they were lining up lynches. It hasn't left my mind.

@Singer:

Read our Neighborhood and comment on what is inside.

Oh my god, you gotta be kidding me. You are continuing to insist that a completely neutral post (saying that Singer is scummy if Jason is town) and interpret it as scum lining up lynches. It's frustrating.

Singer called Jason a town read.

Jason got lynched.

Singer didn't do shit to stop it.

How do you not see it as scummy as fuck? Even more than that, you are so, so hung up on ME pointing it out that it is scummy as fuck because I'm supposedly lining up lynches. Is that even a fucking scumtell? Do you honestly think that scum "line up lynches" as opposed to just push those lynches and start again the next day?

Chain lynching is such a horrible argument for a scumtell because that's just not the way lynches work.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I can't shake the feeling that Sugo is scum.

They have that post where they were lining up lynches. It hasn't left my mind.

@Singer:

Read our Neighborhood and comment on what is inside.

Oh my god, you gotta be kidding me. You are continuing to insist that a completely neutral post (saying that Singer is scummy if Jason is town) and interpret it as scum lining up lynches. It's frustrating.

Singer called Jason a town read.

Jason got lynched.

Singer didn't do shit to stop it.

How do you not see it as scummy as fuck? Even more than that, you are so, so hung up on ME pointing it out that it is scummy as fuck because I'm supposedly lining up lynches. Is that even a fucking scumtell? Do you honestly think that scum "line up lynches" as opposed to just push those lynches and start again the next day?

Chain lynching is such a horrible argument for a scumtell because that's just not the way lynches work.

I thought you wanted to vote SAD. So are you saying you think the scum team is SAD/Singer? I don't remember you outright saying that anywhere.

And yes they line up lynches.

-Beast

I'm not even sure now based on Arthur's latest posts. I just hope someone else will vote first and make the job easier. Also, I don't want to be the cause of Pie losing again. He's a bit emotional about it.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Sorry, I kind of impulsively replaced in, saw I was town, tried playing, then realized I probably shouldn't have with the sheer amount of hydras and personalities in this game alone. That was my mistake but I had already offered to replace in because of the "quickness" concept, and feeling like I wouldn't have to be too invested, so if I lose this game, then more people are going to be mad at me than most, but at least I didn't have a heart attack over it? I wouldn't be the only one responsible for the loss, and I guess that's what I'm starting to take away from mafia. Go me.

This game frustrated you? It is probably one of the milder games I've played in lately and a break from the condescending hostily that takes place in so many other games.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

You forgot within 5 minutes?

Also, just realized your name isn't singersinger but rather singersigner.

-Beast

p-edit:

Town don't always win. It is part of the game.

What? You want someone else to vote SAD first so then you can vote them?

I want someone else to initiate the voting process. It doesn't matter who they vote for.

If they are scum voting us, nice. Pie and I will 1v1 them.

If they are town voting us, screw them. At least the game gets over.

If they vote someone besides us, it narrows down our options and we can think about which of those two players that cross-voted ought to be lynched.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

This at least confirms that Feu and us aren't partners.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

What do you mean "something to be said about SAD and PN?"

[Sugoku Sugoi]

From my POV, it is already obvious that at least one of Arthur or PN are scum because we are town and I don't see both neighborizers as scum.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

And I feel like you are fluffing.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

And that you are the scum that is posting fluff to see if your partner shows up.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Actually that can't be right since hypothetically you can only be partners with me. Never mind.

But so far, we can eliminate:

Sugoku/Feu
Sugoku/Singer

Sugoku/Arthur
Sugoku/PN

Arthur/PN
Arthur/Singer
Arthur/Feu

PN/Singer
PN/Feu

Feu/Singer

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I kinda want to vote you right now. Your scumlynch would make both us and Feu conftown. And whichever of us are alive tomorrow can choose between Arthur and Bert.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Why are you posting like this as opposed to make a choice between Arthur and PN?

Pedit: Singer.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Then put your money where your mouth is.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

And you don't think they would be angry if you vote yourself at LYLO and lose us the game?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

The last Pie and I talked we had Singer and Arthur as the scumteam.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Gah, I want to vote someone but Pie is going to yell at me if I choose wrong.

One of you, please make it easy. Whichever of you are town.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

By voting for scum rather than being coy which sets my gut on edge.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I am posturing and I am TOWN.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I want to vote Singer too so we'll be conftown.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Singer is setting off my gut scumdar off like crazy. The underwhelming opening. Going after us based on her predecessors ISO. Not engaging with the game. Doesn't match with what I heard about her reputation although I never bothered to actually meta her.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

i kind of want to vote singer.

but sad already voted and that's there.

I'll vote Singer as long as you go first.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I'd say it is very unlikely.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I am leaning Feu town for taking concrete positions and Singer scum for not doing so.

And yet, the caps seems townish. IDK, it could be manipulation.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I am going to visit family tomorrow and I won't have time for mafia after that.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

That's partly why I want to get at least this day finished by lynching one of the scum today.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I'm actually not ruling out Arthur/PN.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

.........ok here it comes

Still waiting.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I just hope Feu chooses right and the lack of either of us hammering right now confirms that player as scum, and then we lynch him and see re-analyze at 3P.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Not hammering. Singer might though.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Okay, well.

Arthur is confirmed scum.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Ok, Sugoku, if you

honestly

think I'm scummy for not living up to my "reputation," how sure are you of Bert's meta?

Honestly, I am going through a period of trying to rethink Bert.

Bert when I first met him was very good at both affiliations. Then his scumgame suffered and he mostly trolled (see Tales of Vesperia). Then he started improving again.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I feel like begging for you guys to just hammer sad asap so I don't have to deal with constantly refreshing my phone for the next 5 hours straight.

Actually there are a couple of other things I want to do to nail the final scum.

I am about 90% sure it is not you. We know Arthur is scum.

That leaves Singer and Bert as the remaining scum and I am not sure which of them makes sense with Arthur.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I just hope Feu chooses right and the lack of either of us hammering right now confirms that player as scum, and then we lynch him and see re-analyze at 3P.

I'm not following...to many pronouns...

I was hoping Feu chooses right (he did). That confirmed Arthur as scum. Now I want to lynch Arthur. See who dies. Then re-analyze everything in 3P LYLO.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

VOTE: sad

there is absolutely no way he's town in any scumteam scenario.

I'm town hun.

Please do tell me who is Bert's buddy for my entertainment. (And quote the part where I said you were 100% scum).

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I haven't meta'd anyone this game besides Jason and that didn't really end well, did it?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I have an idea. I'd rather lynch Arthur's buddy today leaving Arthur as an autolynch in 3P. That way we wrap up the game right now.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Why the fuck are you still thinking I'm scum if you are town when you are at L-1 in LYLO and I haven't hammered.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I'm going to go ahead and vote PN to see if Singer hammers. If she doesn't, then game over and town wins.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I have an idea. I'd rather lynch Arthur's buddy today leaving Arthur as an autolynch in 3P. That way we wrap up the game right now.

You probably have no idea how much I just wanted to shift my vote to you instead.

I don't even get wtf you are going on with suspecting us this game.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Yeah he's only at one vote, dude...

Oh, crap. I didn't even realize. I thought PN had voted him. LOL.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

FUCK. This game is killing me.

Arthur: I am scummy, lynch me.
Bert: My inactivity is my fault.
Singer: I am disengaged from the game.

It is like everyone feels so townish but so scummy all the same.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

VOTE: Singer

I'd feel least bad if she is town and mislynched since she cares the least about this game. Sorry Pie! It is not like we wouldn't have lynched her so.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

UNVOTE:

[Sugoku Sugoi]

OMG STOP

Why this reaction when you seemed pretty sure I'm scum here and bullshitting about your reputation. Also, where did the sudden concern come from when you said before that you would vote yourself.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

2nd vote count of day 7:

Ser Arthur Dayne

(1): Feu et Vol

Perpetual Nonsense

(1): Ser Arthur Dayne

Not Voting

(3): Sugoku Sugoi, singersigner, Perpetual Nonsense

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 7 will end in (expired on 2014-07-14 10:00:00)

VOTE: Arthur

This is where I want to go. Pie agreed with this scumread and I wouldn't feel bad going against his wishes.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Singer not hammering confirms Arthur as scum. I think.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

UNVOTE:

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Fuck this. This game is killing me.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

PN showing up just when Arthur is at L-1 is lolwtf.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

god dammit. posting right now is a test of patience.
also, lol he was at L-2.

At one point, both I and Feu had voted him.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Everyone just feels town and very genuine. (And no I don't feel bad for spamming in LYLO). I'd try to limit posting earlier in the game but this the end so I don't care to keep it spam free for future analysis.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Hey, Bert. Arthur should be confirmed scum to you. Why haven't you voted him?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

From Bert's POV: it can't be Singer/Sugoku, Feu/Sugoku, or Feu/Singer because none of those pairs hammered Arthur. I don't know why he hasn't voted.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

i have this thing against rash voting in any situation. in a FG game, someone asked me the same thing while i was pondering the existence of a 2 man scum team in a mini theme.

I still don't get it. Any other pairing would have hammered you by now so I'm not sure why you are not voting even now.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

You go first singer.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

As far as voting I mean.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I'm really trying to spend time with my family right now, but I'm too anxious about things. Maybe you just take me out of the eqUation? Either lynch me or lynch someone else knowing I'm not going to vote and go from there?

It's k you can just put down a vote and leave.

Fucking this.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Feu, you are being no fun and it makes me want to flip a table.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

If I was playing solo, I would have cast a vote by now which I wouldn't feel the need to instantly retract so I don't disappoint Pie.

As it is, I can't because he did invest a lot in this game.