Mafia with the Quickness 2 GAME OVER!

[Feu et Vol]

Antihero, I will be back to talk to you around 10 PM EST I hope. You can bombard me with anything and everything you want to know at that point.

[Zachrulez]

5th vote count of day 5:

Sugoku Sugoi

(1): helium-3

Feu et Vol

(1): Desperado

Oversoul

(1): Ser Arthur Dayne

singersigner

(1): Oversoul

jasonT1981

(1): Feu et Vol

Not Voting

(4): Sugoku Sugoi, jasonT1981, singersigner, Perpetual Nonsense

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 5 will end in (expired on 2014-07-03 11:00:00)

[singersigner]

Who's Perpetual Nonsense?

[Oversoul]

I think they should stop with their miller shenanigans and true claim.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

This is probably going to be the last wall I make since I'm going to be somewhat busy irl tomorrow onwards for a month or so. I'll still probably be able to check in every night but I suspect most of the time I have will go just for catching up with the thread so I'll address some of my reads and thoughts.

1) Desperado

: The way he claimed encryptor in his first post felt really town and considering that we are now aware that a scum encryptor exists, I find it unlikely that he is SleepyKrew's buddy and decided to just claim his role. I suppose it is possible but it just makes sense for him to be a town encryptor considering there are multiple neighborhoods and a masonry and I doubt he would know the layout of the game in a way that makes him claim make so much sense.

2) Helium3

: Obvtown, don't have much else to say about my read there. Mollie, there is a reason I don't want to interact with you and it is not because I'm scum. You started this game by complaining about Wicked, said you liked Pie and that you wanted to talk to him. I told you I was fine with that and stayed away from you. That didn't stop you from continuing to insult my posts claiming they caused you to "vomit" and posting more stuff about Wicked and complaining about my play. Also, I need to tell you this, everyone that doesn't interact with you aren't scum. I read a few games that you were in and you went down this same rabbit hole with Bulbazak in Chain of Command, Waffles in The Recknoning, Chamber in Wicked, and Ffery in the game I modded, in Song Contest, and in some other large game I don't recall. None of them were scum. Hoopla made a really good point in that your playstyle basically involved pissing people off to try and get a read on them and that's not somewhere I want to go in this game. Your playstyle involves saying stuff like "

F16's posts make me wanna vomit they are just like the crappy vacuous wishy washy meta reads as he did in wicked that every1 bought hook line and sinker

" and then complaining that people are "marginalizing you" based on your playstyle. But playstyle is kind of the reason I don't feel into getting into a back and forth with you that will lead nowhere and caused Juls to go "high school fucking drama" and replace out. It should be rather obvious to anyone that can read me that I'm town here. If you think I fooled Tammy who's played a dozen games with me into townreading me, you are way off and you should probably listen to the read of someone who has a near perfect track record. Also, there is no reason I would push the SleepyKrew lynch back on track after Arthur went after Oversoul if I was scum here. Don't you see the difference between my bus on Ossy and my pushes here? Nacho and I were forced to bus Ossy, we had no other choice. Here, we could have swayed the direction of the wagons, we could have gone after OS and Jason, even you were saying Skrew could likely be town. I wouldn't have tried to consolidate votes there and try to get everyone back on track as it would just be a suboptimal scum move. Why do you think Pie abandoned our Jason push and turned around and voted Skrew at a point when Jason lynch was possible? We just had a realization that everything Skrew was doing felt scummy and we couldn't see him as town and wanted to lynch him first. Anyways, my best guess at scum right now is probably Jason and Oversoul especially Oversoul who is really doing nothing at this point. Quit letting the fact that you don't like me distract you from actual scum.

3) Arthur

: I'm reading Arthur as town for several reasons not least are his pushes on SleepyKrew and Slandaar. Until about D3, Arthur's reads with mine overlapped quite well but I don't get the whole "one of Helium or Sugoku" thing in Post 2577. I agree that from your POV, it is unlikely that Helium and us are scum together but I'm not calling Helium scum at all. We're town and Helium's one of our strongest townreads. We're not asking you to re-evaluate Helium even. I think you ought to re-evaluate your other reads because we're both town. I am decently sure you are right on Oversoul although I really have no idea who the other scum is and Pie and I just wondered if it was that simple and it was Jason/Oversoul after all. We could be wrong somewhere in our townreads but we are reading everyone as town to some extent so I'd rather actually get those lynches first and see where we went wrong if town hasn't won the game by then.

I'm worn out at this point, will probably post later.

[Desperado]

If you think I fooled Tammy who's played a dozen games with me into townreading me, you are way off and you should probably listen to the read of someone who has a near perfect track record.

hey remember when you thought mastin saying this about rancid made him the scummiest scum to ever scum?

cuz i remember that

[Sugoku Sugoi]

Singersigner

, I am somewhat disappointed in your posts towards us since the point you replaced in. In that short space of time, you claimed that we were manipulative, whiteknighting, and didn't try to understand our POV at all.

I don't understand why the first thing you did is look at who else is the other neighborizer and tried to find a way to scumread them rather than looking at the game as a whole. And when we said Fue was town, your automatic reaction is that we are whiteknighting. I develop reads mostly through POE, and try to form townreads and most of the time, I focus on who is not town as opposed to develop scumreads with first establishing who I think is town. I sometimes have really strong townreads as well that I'd defend to the death and it is demotivating to be told I'm whiteknighting everytime it happens. I "white-knight" when I'm scum because I try to mimic my town playstyle but you are not even asking why we have a townread on Feu.

We weren't trying to manipulate you in the neighborhood by saying that we'd prefer different people be recruited into both neighborhoods. I said this already but we wanted to talk to as many people as possible and expose them all to the content there. For instance, it doesn't really help us all that much that we can talk to Desperado in two different private threads. It felt redundant from my POV. I guess it doesn't from yours and that's fine but it is not because I'm trying to manipulate you.

As for Fue, I explained what happened. I told them to add you to the neighborhood and they refused. I didn't think they would since Beast had brought it up as a good idea before but Marquis decided not to. I wish they didn't since I was townreading both them and your predecessor and I wished you could see what they posted there so that you both don't go after each other.

[Sugoku Sugoi]

If you think I fooled Tammy who's played a dozen games with me into townreading me, you are way off and you should probably listen to the read of someone who has a near perfect track record.

hey remember when you thought mastin saying this about rancid made him the scummiest scum to ever scum?

cuz i remember that

I know and I am not saying Mollie is scum for thinking I am scum for that reason. I just want her to see she's wrong and not get distracted by pushing us and let Jason/OS get away.

[Desperado]

uhhh what?

i was saying it was scummy of you to tell her that she's wrong and she should listen to tammy because she's dead and town and you couldn't fool her when that exact sequence of events played heavily into your scumread of mastin

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I'm not sure what you are getting at since Mastin was town. Rephrase that again.

[Desperado]

you thought mastin saying it made him scummy

but now you're using the same tactic. as town.

unless mastin flipping town means you no longer thing leveraging dead townies' reads on you is scummy?

[Sugoku Sugoi]

I obviously don't think it is always scummy now that Mastin flipped town but it depends on the circumstances.

I don't think about whether something is "scummy" or not when I post it as town. Mollie is making a show out of how she correctly scumread me in a single game (which wasn't even based on alignment-indicative stuff, the things she said were scummy was stuff I would have probably done as town anyways and is more based on our playstyles being so different and clashing) so I pointed out that someone with a much better track record (Tammy) was reading me as town.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Until about D3, Arthur's reads with mine overlapped quite well but I don't get the whole "one of Helium or Sugoku" thing in Post 2577. I agree that from your POV, it is unlikely that Helium and us are scum together but I'm not calling Helium scum at all.

Well I kinda put that there saying you guys can't be scum together, to show that even IF one of you were scum POE still hits Oversoul.

I also think scum might be just playing bad in general.

[helium-3]

Spoiler:

2) Helium3

: Obvtown, don't have much else to say about my read there. Mollie, there is a reason I don't want to interact with you and it is not because I'm scum. You started this game by complaining about Wicked, said you liked Pie and that you wanted to talk to him. I told you I was fine with that and stayed away from you. That didn't stop you from continuing to insult my posts claiming they caused you to "vomit" and posting more stuff about Wicked and complaining about my play. Also, I need to tell you this, everyone that doesn't interact with you aren't scum. I read a few games that you were in and you went down this same rabbit hole with Bulbazak in Chain of Command, Waffles in The Recknoning, Chamber in Wicked, and Ffery in the game I modded, in Song Contest, and in some other large game I don't recall. None of them were scum. Hoopla made a really good point in that your playstyle basically involved pissing people off to try and get a read on them and that's not somewhere I want to go in this game. Your playstyle involves saying stuff like "

F16's posts make me wanna vomit they are just like the crappy vacuous wishy washy meta reads as he did in wicked that every1 bought hook line and sinker

" and then complaining that people are "marginalizing you" based on your playstyle. But playstyle is kind of the reason I don't feel into getting into a back and forth with you that will lead nowhere and caused Juls to go "high school fucking drama" and replace out. It should be rather obvious to anyone that can read me that I'm town here. If you think I fooled Tammy who's played a dozen games with me into townreading me, you are way off and you should probably listen to the read of someone who has a near perfect track record. Also, there is no reason I would push the SleepyKrew lynch back on track after Arthur went after Oversoul if I was scum here. Don't you see the difference between my bus on Ossy and my pushes here? Nacho and I were forced to bus Ossy, we had no other choice. Here, we could have swayed the direction of the wagons, we could have gone after OS and Jason, even you were saying Skrew could likely be town. I wouldn't have tried to consolidate votes there and try to get everyone back on track as it would just be a suboptimal scum move. Why do you think Pie abandoned our Jason push and turned around and voted Skrew at a point when Jason lynch was possible? We just had a realization that everything Skrew was doing felt scummy and we couldn't see him as town and wanted to lynch him first. Anyways, my best guess at scum right now is probably Jason and Oversoul especially Oversoul who is really doing nothing at this point. Quit letting the fact that you don't like me distract you from actual scum.

/waves

hey f16, it's antihero.

i have absolutely no beef with you. i have no reason to not like you.

however, i would like to know a lot more about your read on feu.

please

walk me through that read.

[Feu et Vol]

Anti, didn't you want something from me?

-Beast

[singersigner]

Eh, I think it was pretty obvious that I didn't just think you were white knighting them at first? I actually believed you and then felt bad I hindsight because I wish I went with my own strategy (which I maintain was the optimal one), instead of listening to you. I very understandably interpreted your influence as manipulating because I saw scum motivation behind a lot of your suggestions.

You assume all I wanted to do was scumread the other neighborizor when all I did was ISO Juls and agree with her. So when I suggested a the optimal strategy to change that read, someone decided that was a bad idea. I can't speak for any of you so I don't know why you think I'm the confusing one for then thinking the whole situation is preeetty sketchy?

[singersigner]

Lol maybe gamma plays all his games drunk because I feel like I'm channeling him right now

[singersigner]

Look at my towniness

LOOK AT IT

[Sugoku Sugoi]

a doubled up neighborizer claim

This is a decent point but it doesn't mean that one of them have to be scum. It would actually be horrible game balance to have a scum and a town neighborizer since the first inclination for most players would be to lynch one of them especially if there are also Masons. I'm not buying doubled up neighborizer claim as a reason to lynch them.

>a distant and weird beastcharizard

I don't know what you mean by this.

>NS mysteriously keels over once it leaks in their neighborhood that he's a mason

It is possible Slandaar rolecopped him considering he made hints about knowing that Speedy Saki was town. Hoopla is likely the other person that was rolecopped. Imperium kill was obvious. I doubt scum would kill anyone else N1.

>a less-than-awesome looking hammer of Slice of Life

Why would scum-Fue burn towncred by hammering someone that a whole ton of people wanted lynched just to end the day quickly?

[helium-3]

2) Helium3

: Obvtown, don't have much else to say about my read there. Mollie, there is a reason I don't want to interact with you and it is not because I'm scum. You started this game by complaining about Wicked, said you liked Pie and that you wanted to talk to him. I told you I was fine with that and stayed away from you. That didn't stop you from continuing to insult my posts claiming they caused you to "vomit" and posting more stuff about Wicked and complaining about my play. Also, I need to tell you this, everyone that doesn't interact with you aren't scum. I read a few games that you were in and you went down this same rabbit hole with Bulbazak in Chain of Command, Waffles in The Recknoning, Chamber in Wicked, and Ffery in the game I modded, in Song Contest, and in some other large game I don't recall. None of them were scum. Hoopla made a really good point in that your playstyle basically involved pissing people off to try and get a read on them and that's not somewhere I want to go in this game. Your playstyle involves saying stuff like "

F16's posts make me wanna vomit they are just like the crappy vacuous wishy washy meta reads as he did in wicked that every1 bought hook line and sinker

" and then complaining that people are "marginalizing you" based on your playstyle. But playstyle is kind of the reason I don't feel into getting into a back and forth with you that will lead nowhere and caused Juls to go "high school fucking drama" and replace out. It should be rather obvious to anyone that can read me that I'm town here. If you think I fooled Tammy who's played a dozen games with me into townreading me, you are way off and you should probably listen to the read of someone who has a near perfect track record. Also, there is no reason I would push the SleepyKrew lynch back on track after Arthur went after Oversoul if I was scum here. Don't you see the difference between my bus on Ossy and my pushes here? Nacho and I were forced to bus Ossy, we had no other choice. Here, we could have swayed the direction of the wagons, we could have gone after OS and Jason, even you were saying Skrew could likely be town. I wouldn't have tried to consolidate votes there and try to get everyone back on track as it would just be a suboptimal scum move. Why do you think Pie abandoned our Jason push and turned around and voted Skrew at a point when Jason lynch was possible? We just had a realization that everything Skrew was doing felt scummy and we couldn't see him as town and wanted to lynch him first. Anyways, my best guess at scum right now is probably Jason and Oversoul especially Oversoul who is really doing nothing at this point. Quit letting the fact that you don't like me distract you from actual scum.

wait a minute I DO LIKE YOU <--- read this 96 times

I didn't like what you did in wicked, which was to take advantage of chamber's meltdown when his meltdown actually had roots that had nothing to do with the game.

I am still butthurt that you didn't get lynched in that game but ces la vie.

your posts were vomit-inducing cos they give me flashbacks to wicked. you know that game that you won and we lost. they don't LITERALLY make me want to vomit.

you did have a choice to not lynch ossy in wicked. you pushed him from d1 albeit nacho originally sheeped my vote onto ossy things but still. you HARDBUSSED him so plz don't act like you didn't.

I also only had skrew as town for like 30 seconds I kept telling anti "but look at the exchanges between him, tammy and I" cos he felt like scum during those exchanges.

re: chain of command. nacho wouldn't let me anywhere near mastina so I had nothing else to do. bulba and I have since made up.
re: space mafia. fery and I have a long offsite history and I was frustrated with her for not listening to a thing I had to say. you know, like how desp/mine hydra nailed the scumteam in 1 post on d1 or d2. but she and I didn't even really go at it in that game, it was mostly emp and desp so I am not sure what your point is there? I tried to be peacekeeper with emp cos I consider him an online friend.
re: the reckoning. I misjudged tammy's intentions. tammy didn't really work with me in this game so it shld be obvs that I don't always think that people who don't interact with me are scum, I had an unshakeable town read on tammy.

so that was a giant pile of misrep of my play that you just posted. I have seen you meta-dive before and you are not normally this shallow.

hoopla is correct in that I push people for reactions. "we apply pressure on people to get them to reveal what they do not want to" <---- the first mafia mentor I ever had said this. he and I once got into it so bad that even nacho winced I mean there was virtual blood splattered all over the place. but we townread each other and we both wound up protecting each other that night ( he was a doc, I had a protect from the inventor) even tho we were both mad as hell at each other. cos that is what he taught me to do; set aside personal feelings and play to your wc. the ONLY time I ever broke that was in coc with bulba and I vowed to never do so again.

so I really don't like you trying to say that the only reason that I am scumreading you is cos you think i don't like you cos in reality I actually do. I have MUCH respect for you as a player and I DO apologise that it does not come across that way.

back to the game: you decided to ignore me at a time when I had not said anything mean to you at all, so it feels like you are trying to ignore me cos I am scumreading you. which is EXACTLY what you did in wicked I mean you even referenced it in this very game. you deciding to ignore me feels super out of place and unless you really got THAT OFFENDED that I said your posts are vomit-inducing and are hanging on to that for 2 weeks now and suddenly just decided that cos I am scumreading you, you have had enough well then I don't know what to say.

I am not every1's cup of tea and I accept that. not every1 is my cup of tea either altho it takes a lot to get me there. if you knew me IRL you would probs have a different opinion. I am pretty laid back and downright docile - except in mafia. I like to get loud and passionate cos outside of mafia I really don't get worked up about anything at all. I mean I have a job where all day people tell me how much they love me and think I am the best thing in the world next to xmas cookies and everything else is pretty copacetic. mafia is really the only place I get to take out my natural competitiveness and aggression.

so after typing this all out I am back to thinking you are scum even tho that is not where I started from with this post. I was going to try to reach out but the way in which you are trying to meta me feels very wrong and it just feels like you are trying to take advantage of my playstyle in order to avoid interaction.

[helium-3]

Singersigner

, I am somewhat disappointed in your posts towards us since the point you replaced in. In that short space of time, you claimed that we were manipulative, whiteknighting, and didn't try to understand our POV at all.

I don't understand why the first thing you did is look at who else is the other neighborizer and tried to find a way to scumread them rather than looking at the game as a whole. And when we said Fue was town, your automatic reaction is that we are whiteknighting. I develop reads mostly through POE, and try to form townreads and most of the time, I focus on who is not town as opposed to develop scumreads with first establishing who I think is town. I sometimes have really strong townreads as well that I'd defend to the death and it is demotivating to be told I'm whiteknighting everytime it happens. I "white-knight" when I'm scum because I try to mimic my town playstyle but you are not even asking why we have a townread on Feu.

We weren't trying to manipulate you in the neighborhood by saying that we'd prefer different people be recruited into both neighborhoods. I said this already but we wanted to talk to as many people as possible and expose them all to the content there. For instance, it doesn't really help us all that much that we can talk to Desperado in two different private threads. It felt redundant from my POV. I guess it doesn't from yours and that's fine but it is not because I'm trying to manipulate you.

As for Fue, I explained what happened. I told them to add you to the neighborhood and they refused. I didn't think they would since Beast had brought it up as a good idea before but Marquis decided not to. I wish they didn't since I was townreading both them and your predecessor and I wished you could see what they posted there so that you both don't go after each other.

so if you didn't think that they would add singer why didn't you suggest some1 else?

[helium-3]

Lol maybe gamma plays all his games drunk because I feel like I'm channeling him right now

are you channeling scumgamma or towngamma

[helium-3]

desp did you ever answer me about what zach game you played

[Antihero]

Anti, didn't you want something from me?

-Beast

YES

literally fucking anything

there's no limits

[Antihero]

This is a decent point but it doesn't mean that one of them have to be scum. It would actually be horrible game balance to have a scum and a town neighborizer since the first inclination for most players would be to lynch one of them especially if there are also Masons. I'm not buying doubled up neighborizer claim as a reason to lynch them.

no, it doesn't; but it doesn't help

>a distant and weird beastcharizard

I don't know what you mean by this.

well then you're not looking. the reads list he gave yesterday was really "blah" and his interactions with me are nothing when we should be lighting up this game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5973905

>NS mysteriously keels over once it leaks in their neighborhood that he's a mason

It is possible Slandaar rolecopped him considering he made hints about knowing that Speedy Saki was town. Hoopla is likely the other person that was rolecopped. Imperium kill was obvious. I doubt scum would kill anyone else N1.

yes of course it's possible, but that's... like... a really obvious route for information to travel.

>a less-than-awesome looking hammer of Slice of Life

Why would scum-Fue burn towncred by hammering someone that a whole ton of people wanted lynched just to end the day quickly?

WIFOMWIFOMWIFOM

if you apply occam's razor then all of these together should AT LEAST make you raise an eyebrow, but all you want to do is go all johnny cochran on me?

i just... i don't know, man