Touhou UPick 3 - [Game Over]

[Kilgamayan]

Best get this out of the way now, since I know I'll want to do it at some point. People don't change!

Vote: Shadoweh

(God it feels weird not doing the double octothorpe)

No negative passives here (as far as I know). At work right now; I'll review those linked games when I can. Might not be able to get around to it until tomorrow, though.

[Kilgamayan]

I'm also hoping character claiming like Gaiden did doesn't become a trend, since we were told those with no flavor knowledge would be at a disadvantage.

[Kilgamayan]

Uh, I don't understand why someone would be more likely to joke about one's own scum meta as scum than as town when in an unfamiliar social environment.

Unvote: Shadoweh

Vote: Serenes Forest

[Kilgamayan]

Not sure if I'm using a card tonight or not, waaaaaaaay too early to make that determination. I'm also not convinced admitting card intention is a good idea because roleblockers and redirectors could be things.

Will form meaningful opinions in a sec, gotta read through everything again first now that I'm not distracted/phone-browsing anymore.

[Kilgamayan]

btw claiming multivoter as well since it's going to become obvious over the course of this post anyway

Vote: Malakittens

I have no idea what you think about anyone, other than keeping your vote on !science through that spellcard-waving contest. Awful lot of posts for someone with zero content.

Vote: Sky Paladin

Fancy meeting you here! I'm not seeing "SB is being reckless" anywhere in SF's (faulty) logic for their original SB vote, so I can't agree with your proposed contradiction, and outside of that...well, there's just not a whole lot of meaningful content here. Post #82 in particular is amusing because it expresses distaste with thgkdms for getting a point across "in a fairly convoluted fashion" when #82 itself doesn't really get any meaningful point across at all. It, like the rest of your posts, remind me of Mala's posts, looking useful without actually being useful.

Vote: The Relentless

Post #76 is horrible, which a few other people have pointed out already. Going after GIF for "whitenoise" is hilar because (a) they were early-game posts, when fooling around is more forgivable, (b) like half the game feels like useless noise to me, and (c) I wouldn't classify either of the indicated GIF posts as useless anyway. The comment on Kagami's #50 is surprisingly vitriolic given how isolated it is. I also think it's fairly obvious Kagami was fooling around.

Vote: pieguyn

Why are you voting for Shadowy? GIF gets the same question for also posting after Shadowy started posting, but you demonstrably had plenty of time to actually engage Shadowy in meaningful discussion and didn't really do so.

Kinda starting to waver on SF a bit in thinking about the situation some more but I'm not completely convinced to change my mind and there's no harm in leaving my vote on them. It's not like I'm lacking in resources!

[Kilgamayan]

>_> Uh okay. I'm not sure I understand not being able to find anything more worth doing with one's vote than maintaining an unsubstantiated one, but if the culture here is that such is okay then I'll have to acclimate. I do think using a vote to pressure someone you're not 100% convinced is town is a better use of said vote, though.

Fake edit: Oh, well, okay then.

[Kilgamayan]

(No offense was intended with that statement btw, reading it now that I've posted it makes it looks like I'm insulting the playerbase here when that wasn't my intention)

Malakittens: If you do indeed have thoughts about players, would you be amenable to sharing them? A nontrivial portion of the content in this game so far seems to be based on player meta and game history and I am at a decided disadvantage here when it comes to both of those things. It doesn't matter to me that you have a different sorting method than most, I'd like to see what you have anyway.

[Kilgamayan]

Man I wish I had thought to be cool like half the Mawtkuh players here and register with a name no one would recognize at a glance.

Also I'm not Conqueror, Dan's just dicking around. (I think Relentless believed him but maybe Relentless is secretly someone from Mawtkuh but MAYBE NOT??? It would be super keen if people could be clear about who is who)

Catching up properly now.

@SF, RE: where my vote would be if I had only one - At the time of my mass-vote post it would've been on Malakittens. (Votes were listed in approximate order of lynch preference.) We'll see if that changes in the next hour, though.

[Kilgamayan]

Ahhhhh can we all agree to refer to Sky Paladin with something other than SP to avoid confusion with SB tia

Also I'm not going to be V/LA this weekend, but I will be away, so don't expect an uptick in activity just because it's the weekend (at least not until Sunday afternoon).

Unvote: Malakittens

Not liking this vote anymore. I've seen too many townies over the years adamantly march to the beat of their own drum in the fashion she's doing today for me to honestly go "must be scum!". I will never like playstyles that are inherently unhelpful to the public on Day 1 but that's for my teeth to grind over and nothing more.

Unvote: The Relentless

Post #248 makes me feel substantially better here. I could point out that vitriol is not an inherently scum thing and I was not trying to frame it as such, but that's a minor detail at this point.

Unvote: pieguyn

Uninterested in this now that she has a real vote for real reasons. People are getting on her case about "not doing anything" but there have been some substantiated thoughts scattered throughout, like here (a post that also suggests genuine interest in the question posed here, rather than having that question look like throwaway "activity") and here, as well as efforts to push her SkyPal stance.

---

Vote: Drezi

I am less than impressed by the back-and-forth with Muffin. Drezi's end of things seems more focused on semantics than necessary. What little else he's posted is very wishy-washy:

I kinda agree about Rylai's post, he did say it was 4 AM and was going to sleep though, not sure about that as an excuse for it, we'll see how he follows it up I guess.

For example, do you have no thoughts on relentless, SP and the wagons that have built up on them?

Do you have any reads at all?

Thoughts obviously, as for reads leaning either way I've yet to decide on that, and I won't tryhard it either until I do.

Like I don't see a reason to not vote for Rylai in this scenario unless you're afraid it'll get negatively tied back to you later for some reason (hint: only one faction's members have this concern). Surely a Rylai vote here is more useful than the Ankamius RVS vote?

Vote: GuyInFreezer

Here is a comprehensive list of people GIF thinks could be scum:

...

Vote: Sakura Hana

I didn't come out of the argument with pieguyn thinking it made either of them clearly either alignment, but the point that's been brought up a couple of times about how she's been using her votes as seals instead of votes is one I can get behind. It's a good way to look helpful without actually scumhunting. I'm also not sure why one of the votes is on GIF (as much as I appreciate voting for GIF in any capacity). If it's for sealing purposes, why hasn't she addressed GIF's claim that his day-use card can't be sealed?

---

Lily does not like how Serene Forest attempts to discredit Lily by saying that Lily hasn't read the Forest's posts properly. The forest refers to posts made after Lily's posts and says that Lily is not reading because Lily did not read the posts that did not exist at the time when Lily made Lily's post. Lily is trying to learn how but Lily can't see the future! Yet!

Can you back this up with quotes and links? This would be a pretty strong point against Forest if true, but I checked Forest's posts and couldn't really see such an accusation from them.

I don't really agree with the suspicion of SP or relentless.

I don't have any particularly strong feelings about SP being town, but nothing he's done looks scummy to me. I don't understand what people thought was wrong with his vote on Serene. The logic is sound. Serene's initial vote on SB should never have happened if Serene's reasoning for backing off is to be believed (SB is town because he wouldn't be this "reckless" as scum; so why did Serene suspect SB in the first place?) and while SP's content hasn't been the a shining paragon of towniness, I don't really have any issues with what he's said or done thus far.

As I pointed out in my vote for SkyPal, Forest's initial vote for SB had nothing to do with recklessness, and it basically has no other justification.

Currently thinking SkyPal > Drezi > Sakura > GIF with Forest off in suspicion purgatory somewhere until Lily Keyboardsmash gets back here and addresses the thing I mentioned above.

[Kilgamayan]

Really actually though maybe I'd flop Drezi and Sakura. The more I think about her GIF vote the more it rubs me the wrong way given his claim (and her non-addressing of it).

[Kilgamayan]

Uh, Muffin's voting for pieguy, not Forest.

I also think he's contributed a lot more to the game on the whole. I see his posts and think "man this is what I would be doing if I had more than two late-night hours per day to devote to this game".

GIF: Since you're around, what do you think of Sakura's vote for you?

[Kilgamayan]

Shadowy: I'd rather not Ganon Cannon anyone on D1. I'd be a good deal more open to the idea on D2 and beyond, though.

Lily Keyboardsmash: Noted! I am quite interested to hear a response from Forest on this issue in particular, but I am more than content to leave a vote on them.

---

Sakura: The problem is that the way you were voting made it look like you didn't really care that much about your own reasons for voting. GIF claimed an ability that directly overrode your own and you just sort of ignored it. If you actually cared about using your vote the way you said you were using it, there were two ways to react to his claim:

* Believing it and finding a new target
* Not believing it and trying to convince everyone GIF is lying and therefore scum

Since you say you didn't trust his claim, one must ask the question of why scum would feel so pressured by an ED1 vote (that wasn't even a scumhunting vote) that they would lie about their abilities on ED1 in a way that could possibly be checked and debunked by a town investigative role.

I don't even know what I'm supposed to say to "who cares if my vote is (on someone who is unaffected by the side effect of my vote which is the reason I'm voting for them)" other than people not caring how other people vote is how nothing gets done.

---

Not particularly impressed with Drezi's vote against Rylai. Asking about why Rylai prioritized !science over everyone else non-memorable is a reasonable enough thing, but there isn't much beyond that. Rylai's not exactly high-hanging lynch fruit right now; surely a better and more efforted case could have been made than what was presented. It feels less like the product of legitimate scumhunting and more like the product of "oh crap I'm getting flak for my behavior I better try to do the things I've been accused of not doing".

[Kilgamayan]

Posting from laptop, please pardon all typos.

---

It could be GIF joking

Then why would you not simply ask for clarification?

---

Pieguyn: I think Rylai is in way over his head and that voting for him is lazy. The play is objectively bad, but it's objectively bad in a no-idea-what-I'm-doing way rather than a scum way. There's only so much "AD: No" and "Fair point, still don't buy it" I can take before I just sigh and sit back and wait for the inevitable town-finally-gets-fed-up-with-him-still-being-in-the-game lynch.

I think your #413 is perfectly reasonable (and a better case than Drezi put together), for whatever that's worth given my above thoughts.

---

So I don't like Serene, I don't like their defenders (SB/Kilga/Rylai/Pie)

I think Serene is bad, but SB is worse.

I also think Kilga has five votes and all of them are awful

VoteCount 1.3

• Serenes Forest [4] -
  Kilgamayan
  , thdgkdms, The_Relentless, Sky_Paladin

lolwut

I'm having a hard time parsing the rest of that post (the length doesn't help) but that might because it's 2 AM and I'm distracted by other people in the room playing Neptunia.

---

Relentless: Day 1 lynches tend to be either on lurkers (because people don't understand why Day 1 "lurking" is less unforgivable than on other days) or because someone didn't play the wordswordswords game very well. Neither of those are very strong and I'm not really enthused about the prospect of having more such lynches. I could always change my mind if something really jumps out at me, but I don't really expect that to happen.

[Kilgamayan]

Here. Catching up properly now.

But first, on the subject of vote volume:

Vote: notscience
Vote: Malakittens
Vote: Shadoweh
Vote: pieguyn
Vote: Ankamius
Vote: The Relentless
Vote: SXTLHGaiden
Vote: ActionDan
Vote: thdgkdms
Vote: SB
Vote: Rylai Crestfall
Vote: zMuffinMan
Vote: Kagami

Get wrecked #SaveTheAnimals

[Kilgamayan]

Okay so scratch the whole catching up thing, I have a house guest today that I need to keep entertained. Sorry.

I will say that, in my very intermittent browsing over the past 24 hours of so, I haven't seen much to convince me off of my votes for my three largest scum reads (Sky Paladin, Sakura, Drezi). I haven't had the chance to read the Muffin/Forest argument yet.

To address Ankamius' concerns about my pieguy unvote, my original pieguy vote was for different reasons than everyone else was bringing up as reason to vote for her, and I thought it would be uncouth to examine and address those reasons before deciding whether or not to maintain my vote.

[Kilgamayan]

For those that are regulars here, is Sprinkled Delight a Katsuki alt?

Unvote: notscience
Unvote: Malakittens
Unvote: Shadoweh
Unvote: GuyInFreezer
Unvote: pieguyn
Unvote: Ankamius
Unvote: Katsuki
Unvote: SXTLHGaiden
Unvote: ActionDan
Unvote: thdskdms
Unvote: SB
Unvote: Rylai Crestfall
Unvote: zMuffinMan
Unvote: Kagami

---

Ankamius why you gotta ruin the perfection of everyone having a vote except for me (sorry for making you do extra work FG)

My assessment of the alternate "case" against pieguy comes from post #280 sticking in my mind the most at the time, because it was a repeated point presented in a concise post. Since it was the point being emphasized, it was the one I went back to check, and reading through pieguy's ISO made me not agree with it. It is true that I should have also directly addressed the spellcard fishing thing Lily Keyboardsmash brought up, though. I have no meaningful reason for not doing this, just an excuse that's a combination of generic dearth of time, a poor attention span, laziness, and already feeling burned out by this game. I can't begrudge someone holding this against me.

I am curious what the other reasons to pursue pieguy you see in post #253, though (apparently there are "lots"), because all I see are the spellcard-fishing accusation and the contentlessness accusation.

---

I like the analysis brought up by SP, But one thing that i don't get is if SP thinks both SF and SB are scum, and decided to play that cross busing tactic at the start of the game. @SkyP <- would be nice if you could clarify that.

I didn't read SkyP's post! though skimming it it seems like moonlogic was employed!

Not really, he has some very good and valid points about SB and SF.

Unvote

Vote: Serenes Forest

Vote: SB

Let's see where this goes.

What was the purpose of asking the question in the first quote given where your doublevote ended up at the end of the post?

---

Sky Paladin's recent behavior is not what I would expect of a townie thinking they've just been dayvigged, particularly the completely unsubstantiated list of reads where more people are filed under scum than town.

---

Of the people with more than one not-me vote on them right now that I haven't addressed recently:

- I want to wait on content from ooba for possibly revisiting my vote there, but the Forest response to Lily Keyboardsmash's accusation that I had been waiting for did not make me disagree with Lily's original assertion. Nothing else in Forest's serious of posts before replacing out made me feel better or worse about them.

- I'm feeling town Dan right now and I find his Kagami case to be pretty reasonable, but I have a sticking point in that Kagami was (I think) the first person to point out Sakura's scummy voting behavior (which was the point that first made me look into her). As I am already pretty solid on Sakura scum, I have a hard time seeing Scumbuddy Kagami making that observation at that time.

- !science's two not-me votes are an RVS vote from Mala and Rylai's vote, so I'm not considering him to be a valid possible wagon right now.

[Kilgamayan]

- I want to wait on content from ooba

before

possibly revisiting my vote there

fixed

[Kilgamayan]

Okay, thanks.

[Kilgamayan]

FTR aside from the people I'm presently voting, I'd find consolidation/gladiation involving Mala or Gaiden acceptable. Not really interested in anyone else.

[Kilgamayan]

W/e I don't get why you're so fussed about one vote when there's mult players with multi votes.. (Sak/killa)

This looks really disingenuous. Surely you don't think !science is pushing you to produce a meaningful vote because we need a larger volume of votes?

[Kilgamayan]

Kilga: is there any particular reason you are the first vote on all wagons you are a part of?

I'm a scumhunting God and everyone knows it so they all just sheep to my ideas instead of :effort:ing other cases 8)

It's just a coincidence, sprinkled with other people voting their votes elsewhere in the case of the Sky Paladin and Sakura votes. There's no role-mechanical reason for it, if that's what you're getting at.

---

Sky Paladin: I didn't think I had to explicitly say that your previous attempts to get me off your case, which consisted of trying to make a comparison without actually being aware of who was voting for who and calling me a Forest-defender and telling me my votes are awful when one of my votes was for the same Forest who you had been voting for yourself up until that point and still thought was bad, were pathetic to the point of scummy, but I guess if you really need me to, there you go, that's what they were. Since you said I've lied about you, feel free to argue how Muffin's vote was actually on Forest (as you claimed) and not pieguy (like I claimed), or how I wasn't actually voting for Forest when you accused me of being a Forest-defender.

My initial vote for you was as strong/weak as any vote that early into Day 1 ever is, sure. Your poor-at-best attempts to defend yourself from it are what's kept it on you this entire time, because they've made me feel worse about you instead of better. Your vote on me feels strongly of an OMGUS because of how unimpressive/unsubstantiated it is. Doubly so when I actually conceded a point against myself to Ankamius and you didn't even seem to notice; I'd think you'd at least mention that in passing if you really wanted to see Scum Kilga dead.

RE: vig death throes - Depending on one's personal imagined death-based time constraints, I would expect a townie thinking they're about to die would at least add various levels of emphasis to their reads lists, if not outright provide reasons for the stronger reads (in either direction). A list of reads with no context is completely useless - if a townie does that and then dies, the rest of the game can only look at it can "yep, that sure is what they believed!" The rest of town is given little reason to actually look into those reads. Sure, one could argue that the rest of town could go back through the dead townie's posts and look through them for reasoning, but if your play is scummy to the point of getting vigged on D1, then odds are you weren't making good points before you died.

---

Since I didn't mention it before, I am ambivalent on Drezi's claim, particularly given there's not a lot to it.

I'm not saying anything about which pick of mine I got because (a) there is a handy-dandy waifu list of mine in a not-hard-to-internet-detective location that may or may not be useful for at least narrowing my character down, and (b) I sent in a list that was like fifteen waifus long and I don't want to dwell on all the waifus I didn't get.

[Kilgamayan]

Sorry for the extended absence/silence (specifically to Sky Paladin and Ankamius since I know they're both waiting on me), energy and motivation were completely zapped by the time I got home yesterday evening and I can't reasonably post during the day due to needing to focus on work. I will make time to properly look into things this evening after rehearsal.

[Kilgamayan]

I just downed most of a roll of Girl Scout Thin Mints cookies and now feel physically ill! QUALITY LIFE DECISIONS

Sky Paladin: I'm still not seeing the SB/Forest contradiction you're proposing happened. What did Forest do before saying "I don't think SB would reply as absentmindedly as he did if he were scum" that is directly contradictory to that sentiment? Did you think Forest thought SB's RVS joke was "absentminded"? I rather doubt it; there's a large difference between not analyzing one's own RVS meta tendencies and simply not reading posts properly.

RE Post 82: tbh I don't know why you even bothered asking about the details of the negative utility thing, presumably Forest made a judgment at the time of claiming the negative utility that the rest of the game didn't need to know the details. Did you really think you asking for the details was going to make them go "oh well if you really want to know"? With that and the first thing in your post being ostensibly useless (although they look good on the surface!), and both of your questions to SB also being more or less useless (I think 'on the sidelines' has obvious Mafia-contextual meaning and SB had already laid out pretty clearly why he thought Forest was town), this leaves the third quote response, which I thought was 'eh' at the time and still do (I think it's unfair to hold SB to the Shrinemaiden RVS 'standard' just because a bunch of other troglodytes enjoy scumclaiming in RVS) but I guess it's better than nothing.

RE Forest votes: My vote was most certainly not for the same reasons as yours and I'm surprised you'd even say such a thing after you spent so much time clarifying your proposed contradiction as the main reason for your vote. I took issue with using "town is unlikely to do X thing" to conclude scum when there wasn't an obvious reason why "scum is unlikely to do X thing" wasn't equally true, you took issue with the vote switch.

RE Pieguy vote: My vote was because pieguy had her vote on Shadowy but didn't question her about anything when she showed up despite being present in the thread at the time. I'm not sure ho this is comparable to your

RE Malakittens unvote: Truth be told, I didn't like doing that either. But the fact of the matter is that I've seen the same attitude she showed in response to my vote for her from town so many times throughout the years that it's no longer something I can hold against someone. Theoretically it's scummy, but empirically it's null. It legitimately aggravates me that people do it, but it is what it is.

RE pieguy unvote: I see clear stances on given issues from pieguy in the posts I linked. I dunno what else you want me to say here. I also haven't seen anything from pieguy since that has made me want to vote for her again, so I haven't bothered talking about her. There's enough noise in the thread already, I'm not going to waste more megahurtz than I have to.

RE Lily Keyboardsmash: I didn't directly acknowledge #399, but I acknowledged Forest's response to such at the bottom of #716. In case the wording isn't clear, I take Lily's side on that issue.

---

Ankamius: Please tell me if I'm parsing your point incorrectly, because I'm not 100% sure I understand, but (a) I personally lump "pretending to contribute" and "not doing anything" together (since you're not actually doing anything if you're only pretending to contribute), and (b) I'm willing to forgive some pretending-to-contribute-ness from a player if that player has also actually contributed. I felt like pieguy had actually contributed a bit of content in those linked posts, so between that and having (and supporting) a vote, I felt good enough to rescind the vote.

---

I really really really dislike ooba's SB vote, it should be screamingly clear that he's not going to get nine other votes to join him on that case in the time remaining. Voting for people with low support near the end of D1 is actually something I see scum so fairly often (and have done as scum myself in the past) due to it looking like contributory material while not actually helping the current situation. This is further compounded by the fact that I don't know which of Sky Paladin or Drezi he'd vote for if the wagons shake down that way; this makes the SB vote look all the more like a park so that he can changed his vote to whichever of Sky Paladin and Drezi is more strategically advantageous.

To hell with it, Ooba > Drezi > Sky Paladin preference list. Would have had Drezi on top for continuing to play a stock scum game, but that SB vote from Ooba is just too much.

[Kilgamayan]

something I see scum

do

fairly often

fixed

[Kilgamayan]

Not really, given I'm already voting all three of the viable lynch options right now. :V I guess it's mostly meaningless for me to have a voting order preference when I don't have a vote so much as a board of 19 on/off switches, but I figured I should put the opinion out there anyway.

[Kilgamayan]

Though I guess it does have some meaning in that I would unvote you to save you from being lynched if it would guarantee a Drezi lynch, and I would unvote Drezi to save him from being lynched if it would guarantee an ooba lynch.

[Kilgamayan]

<_< I can appreciate wanting Sakura dead (this is the part where I point out that my questions in #456 and #716 were never answered) but it's not going to happen today unless you can convince Shadowy it's a really good idea.

[Kilgamayan]

Can you link me to the response to the first one? I coudln't find a response in any of the posts that followed shortly after the question.

[Kilgamayan]

Also I'm off to bed but I will be able to at least intermittently browse in case of emergency up to the deadline.

[Kilgamayan]

Poking my head in really quick to say that I've changed my mind on Drezi vs ooba given recent posts and would now prefer a Drezi lynch.

[Kilgamayan]

woop woop

[Kilgamayan]

Well, that makes me feel all the better about Sky Paladin. Defintiely no longer interested in voting that way. It also makes me feel good about Kagami (and Dan by extension, since reading over their spat made me feel like they were the same alignment with how casual both of them were about it).

Vote: ooba

for the time being because I still really dislike that SB vote near the end of the day.

I have guests over so I don't have the chance to read over Sakura interactions just yet, but I'm particularly interested in looking through people that called her town for little/no reason.

Fake edit: Sentiments are similar on the name coloring.

[Kilgamayan]

Whoops I completely missed that Dan targeted Kagami >_> It still doesn't change my opinion of the two of them, unless Dan decides it's worthwhile to share anything for whatever reason.

[Kilgamayan]

Dan, do you still think Kagami is scum?

[Kilgamayan]

Sakura kind of ignored the talk about Mala in the QT

Yeah, that's more than good enough for me, on top of knowing Mala thought Sakura was town and did nothing of use yesterday (plus this is still a thing).

Vote: Malakittens

Lily Keyboardsmash: I suspect you're not going to get an answer until Sky Paladin shows up.

[Kilgamayan]

No votes from me yet for possible-double-lynch reasons. Would prefer two of Dan/Mala/ooba, though I could be convinced onto Katsuki, I guess. Not particularly interested in anyone else's lynch.

[Kilgamayan]

(Though really it would be Dan and one of Mala/ooba)

(Also yes this is me admitting I was a monstrous oaf about Dan and Kagami being the same alignment, that's clearly not true now)

[Kilgamayan]

We're in evens anyway.

Shadowy may still have her Ganon Cannon.

[Kilgamayan]

Shadowy: Well fine be that way.

Vote: Malakittens
Vote: Ooba

Will vote for Dan if/when necessary.

[Kilgamayan]

Can someone tell me why everyone hates Mala today? I was busy and honestly a little miffed I didn't get to post for like five days.

This and this are good places to start. Also worth noting is that Mala actually called !science scummy yesterday for trying to push her turbowagon.

[Kilgamayan]

The one flipped scum we have so far clearly didn't care about what her stated opinions meant while she was writing them. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were true of more of them.

[Kilgamayan]

I guess I should say I'm being a mite unfair in that the Mala/ooba(/Katsuki) pool has also come about through PoE. There's literally one other person in the game that's not in that pool that I don't have at least a fairly strong town read on.

Shadowy, if you were to pick two scum buddies for Sakura and Dan, and neither of them were Mala or ooba, who would you pick?

[Kilgamayan]

The thing about pieguy is that !science apparently trusted her a lot. I admit she'd be a giant question mark otherwise, but that sentiment is hard to ignore.

[Kilgamayan]

Well, now we can save Shadowy's 3-for-2 card for a later day.

[Kilgamayan]

I am morbidly curious to hear how anyone could read Sky Paladin as scum based off a Sakura ISO.

[Kilgamayan]

For reference, here are my Night 2 notes, with the night's deaths crossed out. Leave it to Shadowy to counter my super excellent PoE question by naming two of my three question marks.

SXTLHGaiden - ???

GuyInFreezer - Town

zMuffinMan - 99% Town

pieguyn - ??? but trusted by notscience

notscience - Town

Ankamius - ???

ActionDan - Scum

Shadoweh - 75% Town

thdgkdms - Town
SB - Town
Sky_Paladin - 99% Town

ooba - Poss Scum

Kilgamayan - Town

Rylai Crestfall - 90% Town

Katsuki - ??? but ascetic

Malakittens - Prob Scum

Kagami - Town

Fake Edit: ooba, do you really think Sky Paladin would have gone through the trouble he did on Day 1 just to slam a buddy?

Fake Edit 2: SB is town per Muffin's investigation.

[Kilgamayan]

(Please pretend I remembered to italicross !science's name on that list <_<)

[Kilgamayan]

Leftover:

Kagami

In the Night Phase...

ActionDan visited Kagami.

Can you explain this under the assumption that they're a scumpair?

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems extremely unlikely that they'd put on a show for the Night 1 tracker camera like this.

[Kilgamayan]

FWIW I can confirm that the Lilies are confirmed town to each other.

Fake Edit: You think AD would scumdoc Kagami, who no one was really paying attention to, over Sakura, who I had spent a large chunk of the day grilling before Sky Paladin slammed her at the end?

[Kilgamayan]

Fake Edit: You think AD would scumdoc Kagami, who no one was really paying attention to, over Sakura, who I had spent a large chunk of the day grilling before Sky Paladin slammed her at the end?

With global tracker, would you "openly" doc the obv vig target sakura?

Maybe, if you thought you could claim it as a jailer shot.

Fake Edit: Sorry, Mala, but I wasn't about to tell two people I didn't trust that I had investigative abilities.

Fake Edit 2: I did say I was highly suspicious of GIF on Night 1 and then completely dropped him on Day 2. Frankly, I thought that was a bad move on my part for being too revealing. :V

[Kilgamayan]

Unvote: Malakittens
Unvote: ooba

For possible later doublehammer purposes.

Is there any particular reason people want Katsuki to be the second lynch ahead of ooba? The only thing I can get out of Katsuki is that he doesn't give a damn about anything. (Though for someone that wanted a quick lynch he sure is taking his sweet time talking about his ooba target from Night 1.)

I guess I could be convinced to let Mala be for the time being. It's quite possible that at least part of my suspicion is based in massive playstyle and attitude differences.

(For the record, I had no idea what Mala's spellcard did until such was revealed today, and given I wasn't told what it did, I was not aware my input was being requested last night. I figured it was a rhetorical, wondering-aloud comment. If she explicitly claimed its effects somewhere, then that's another one I just plain missed.)

[Kilgamayan]

Oh, almost forgot. Can anyone with knowledge of how FG GMs tell me what his typical night action resolution priority list is? (Or FG can answer this himself, if he doesn't think it's asking too much mid-game.) Things happened last night that I wasn't expecting but could be easily explained by FG just using a different priority list than what I'm used to.

Unrelated to everything else: Can we actually start using Lily Keyboardsmash's MotK name? Or are we keeping his identity a secret or some shit.

[Kilgamayan]

I'm not in a neighborhood with Rylai. Do you mean Ankamius?

If she did claim the card in the thread, then like I said, I missed it. Or just forgot it.

[Kilgamayan]

Thinking on this entire thing now, that actually does kinda lean me toward Mala town. I think all abilities that mess with or eliminate people's abilities to vote or cast cards are inherently antitown but breaking Keyboardsmash's cards with an untrackable action doesn't make a lot of sense as scum when compared to targeting, say, SB. (One could argue that he had already used a card in thread but there's no way in hell Patchouli has only one spell card.)

[Kilgamayan]

Haven't yet formulated a proper opinion of much of anything else that's gone on right now but uhh

If nothing else, allowing a neighborizer shot to activate as soon as it was used would confirm that there's nothing in the game that could possibly stop it.

Which seems exceedingly unlikely at best.

[Kilgamayan]

<_< Man this game is doing a good job up making me feel useless.

Regardless, yeah, I buy into this.

[Kilgamayan]

Then there's Pie/Mala/Kilga/Sakura/Ank in some other place, I'm assuming SDM because of the flips.

>_> How closely are you really reading Ankamius?

[Kilgamayan]

I was asking more because Ankamius' character is public knowledge. (Also the implication that I would pick a character from the SDM is insulting, but that's another discussion for another time.)

To answer on the Lilies' behalf, nothing would happen.

[Kilgamayan]

Dan if you have the time to shitpost this much you should run another open chess thread in RPG :V

I'm gonna see if I can get in some rereading in on the extremely limited time I have left on my lunch break. I keep forgetting that double/triple-ISO functionality thing at the bottom of the page exists.

[Kilgamayan]

I know right

Have to get back to work now. Went with Dan/Sakura/ooba and then stupidly started reading from the beginning of the game, forgetting that ooba was Forest 2.0. Didn't get much directly out of what I read, but there were a number of Forest references in Sakura's posts that make me want to do Dan/Sakura/Forest first when I get home.

[Kilgamayan]

rofl

welp

[Kilgamayan]

Not to defend Katsuki, but he (claims to have) motivated !science on N2.

[Kilgamayan]

I can make your decision slightly easier and say that if you plan on using the five-vote card, I'm not going to vote to double-lynch myself. >_> I doubt I would support a Rylai lynch either.

ALSO I will be V/LA for most of the weekend, returning to some semblance of activity Sunday afternoon. (I need to figure out how to set the handy-dandy notification thingy.) I feel bad for not doing more to help out, as much as I'm not terribly worried about saving my own skin because I know I'll keep producing results even as the scum team dwindles (unless the default on this site is that scum can kill and use abilities on the same night). Without properly reading the Sky Paladin/Ankamius slapfight because I don't have nearly enough energy, my preferred lynch order is Ooba > Mala > Ankamius >= Katsuki. I know what I said about rethinking Mala in 1638 but I've thought about it some more and it's not nearly as strong as I thought it was.

[Kilgamayan]

Kilgamayan tell me what you did to me n1

I stopped by and said hi and learned that you and Keyboardsmash knew each other existed and were confirmed town to each other (and also that you could yell really loud in the thread). That's about it.

[Kilgamayan]

That action wasn't a spellcard, it was a regular ability. I did have a spellcard that does the exact same thing without the 'visit' part, but I used that last night on someone else.

[Kilgamayan]

Quick bit of proper typing time while on lunch break. I figured I'd share this now while I have the opportunity, since almost all browsing for the next 48 hours is going to be lurkreading via phone.

My regular Night 2 action targeted Gaiden and failed. I later had it clarified that, in a vacuum, Gaiden's death would not have had an effect on my role (see questions in 1634), so I'm kinda wondering where the failure came from.

My non-visiting spellcard shot of identical function to my ability (see 1899) was used on Ankamius, and that succeeded, so if roleblockage is somehow responsible for the Gaiden failure then it doesn't affect spellcards. Regardless, without actually revealing anything (obviously), I can say that I totally understand where he's coming from at the bottom of 1617, which kinda leans me a bit away from scum Ankamius. At the very least, it certainly doesn't make me any more inclined toward him being scum. (I admit it's not unreasonable to fake as scum, but he's approaching his situation as a townie would.)

I guess the point of this, beyond being an info dump, is that Ankamius is still really only in my lynch pool by PoE and I would actually probably vote Katsuki ahead of him now that I think about it, which I know is contrary to what I said in 1877 but whatever.

[Kilgamayan]

Popping head in real quick. Would also still prefer Ooba/Dan lynch.

@Mod:

The deadline date and countdown in the most recent post are not consistent (date says March 15th, countdown says there's still 3.75 days to go). Can you clarify which is accurate?

[Kilgamayan]

Friendly reminder that I can confirm that the Lilies are confirmed to each other. "oh but they might be faking it" "oh but your role might not have worked properly" "oh but-" No. Wrong. Stop. If you are even slightly considering that one of the Lilies is scum, you are 100% positing a Sakura/Dan/GIF/Keyboardsmash/Kilga scum team. If you're not prepared to make that claim, don't try to finagle some sort of Scum Lily.

[Kilgamayan]

Also I'm not voting because I may be needed for double-lynch, depending on how people feel about me doing it vs. Shadowy doing it. I would like to think I've at least made my lynch preference list clear, though.

[Kilgamayan]

I haven't looked into Rylai because I haven't been around to do more than the occasional phone browsing. I made it pretty clear that this would be the case Thursday evening.

[Kilgamayan]

Okay, but that's definitely not answering the question I asked. You did not say you would look into Rylai, you said 100% no never and I want to know why.

When was this '100% no never' stuff? I had him down as 90% overnight and said I doubted I would support a lynch on him today. I'm very much open to reconsideration at some point in the future, but I have a limited amount of time where I can actually focus on the game, and if I have to budget my time I'm going to focus my time on trying to differentiate between the people I think are actively scummier.

[Kilgamayan]

Just got home, about to sod off to bed.

Vote: ActionDan
Vote: Ooba

Still prefer the Ooba lynch by a fair amount to Katsuki or Ankamius.

[Kilgamayan]

"Claim" acknowledged, opinion unchanged.

[Kilgamayan]

Before anyone asks, I (sadly) cannot consolidate my multivotes onto a single target.

On the subject of Shadowy not laying the smack down down when the wagons were at 4/4, there is this:

(i suggested we go 5/5 on purpose so the votes are L+1)

But there doesn't appear to be a clear reason for this request.

[Kilgamayan]

(In thinking about it, I might have the faintest idea why Town Shadowy would make such a request without it being a joke, but obviously I'm not going to say anything until she addressed it.)

[Kilgamayan]

As I said in the dead thread, this was fun! Would gladly play in future 2hu games here.

[Kilgamayan]

As I said in the dead thread, this was fun! Would gladly play in future 2hu games here.

Did you actually target me N3?

No, I went after Rylai. I've found over the years that when I think Shadowy is town and she's telling me to look at a thing, she's right more often than not.

I have to admit it was slightly insulting to see multiple people speculate that I targeted you after I had you down as ascetic in the notes I made public on D3, but I guess that's karmic retribution for forgetting to tell Ankamius who I was targeting so he could confirm it later. <_<

[Kilgamayan]

Please pardon my site meta ignorance, but how common and/or "acceptable" is self-meta as a defense here, anyway? No one I was unfamiliar with seemed to bat an eye at players citing it, but two of the three people that pushed self-meta in their own defense the hardest were scum.

[Kilgamayan]

Okay, both of those responses were what I was thinking/hoping for, thank you. (Particularly the self-awareness => manipulation thing; I was thinking that same thingthe entire time but didn't bring that up because it didn't seem like anyone other than Sky Paladin cared very much and I didn't want to make unnecessary waves that were only founded in site playstyle differences.)

[Kilgamayan]

Ank I'm so sorry for distracting you all the Rylai stuff on N3 I felt legit bad when I learned that Katsuki was the last scum.

[Kilgamayan]

I think the major problem with gut reads is that they do little to nothing in the way of convincing other people. By and large, no townie is an island; what good are correct reads if no one listens to you?

[Kilgamayan]

Kilga we should play again. I think we could really do some work in other games.

I would be glad to! I have to admit that Mafia is only a once-in-a-while thing for me at this point in life, though. (Full-time job + part-time job + three musical group commitments will do that to a person.) I'll definitely always at least make time for Touhou games - it looks like these are run about once every eight months or so? - but beyond that, I'd need to see some flavor I really like before I'd considering joining.

[Kilgamayan]

Ah, forgot to response to this.

I hope you guys had fun, dear friends of Shadoweh.

Most definitely! Thanks again for your hard work. o/

[Kilgamayan]

mukyu~

[Kilgamayan]

I went through the PT's to see what people thought of me but you all left me off your reads lists ;_;

Hey, I light blued you and everything D3