Touhou UPick 3 - [Game Over]

[GuyInFreezer]

RVS vote.

[SXTLHGaiden]

RVS votes are acceptable until the Dawn of the Third day. Then, it's do or die.

[Malakittens]

Yep I'm seriously going to make sure double/multi voters go away because they are so meh it's unreal.

@kill: the game has just started less than 24 hours. There's only 10 pages so how exactly am I supposed to have rrads on half te playerlist already? I'm the type of player to spurt out reads at random and not because someone wants me too. I sort players out differently~

I actually have content, but you don't know how I play so none of it makes sense to you yet.

[pieguyn]

Pie read Sakura for me Tia

Sakura stop voting town or you're uninvited from our hood

I'm somewhat suspicious of Sakura at this point, but I'd like to wait a bit before solidifying/elaborating on it. there's a few of her posts that pinged for me and I think if she's scum she'll keep doing what I'm picking up on, but I don't have enough for it to be conclusive yet.

Why are you voting for Shadowy? GIF gets the same question for also posting after Shadowy started posting, but you demonstrably had plenty of time to actually engage Shadowy in meaningful discussion and didn't really do so.

I didn't have a problem with Shadoweh's responses to me and I don't really have any idea of what else I can do with my vote at this point. /shrug

at this point I'm focusing more on solidifying town reads since I don't have any good scum reads yet

[Shadoweh]

<.< This is going to be one of those everyone votes everyone games.
Also lolShadoweh wagons are justt their way of saying hello. If anyone seems tryhard scum to me it's Relentless, that's why I like Serenes and dislike them.

[GuyInFreezer]

I think BDSM folks should call truce for today and focus on others for now.
I don't see either of them as scum anyway.

[GuyInFreezer]

SDM*

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.2

• Serenes Forest [4] - Kilgamayan, thdgkdms, The_Relentless, Sky_Paladin
  
• notscience [2] - Malakittens, Sakura Hana
  
• Malakittens [1] - Kilgamayan
  
• Shadoweh [4] - GuyInFreezer, Serenes Forest, ActionDan, pieguyn
  
• GuyInFreezer [0] -
  
• pieguyn [2] - zMuffinMan, Kilgamayan
  
• Sakura Hana [0] -
  
• Ankamius [2] - Drezi, Sakura Hana
  
• The_Relentless [3] - Shadoweh, Ankamius, Kilgamayan
  
• SXTLHGaiden [0] -
  
• ActionDan [0] -
  
• thdgkdms [0] -
  
• SB [0] -
  
• Sky_Paladin [3] - SB, Rylai Crestfall, Kilgamayan
  
• Drezi [0] -
  
• Kilgamayan [0] -
  
• Rylai Crestfall [0] -
  
• zMuffinMan [0] -
  
• Kagami [0] -

Not Voting [3]

- SXTLHGaiden, Kagami, notscience

With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch

.

Deadline is March 5, 2015, at Noon PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2015-03-05 14:00:00)

[notscience]

I am disappointed in everyone voting me.

[GuyInFreezer]

Why is there a wagon on sky?
He looks p town

[pieguyn]

Fancy meeting you here! I'm not seeing "SB is being reckless" anywhere in SF's (faulty) logic for their original SB vote, so I can't agree with your proposed contradiction, and outside of that...well, there's just not a whole lot of meaningful content here. Post #82 in particular is amusing because it expresses distaste with thgkdms for getting a point across "in a fairly convoluted fashion" when #82 itself doesn't really get any meaningful point across at all. It, like the rest of your posts, remind me of Mala's posts, looking useful without actually being useful.

actually, I agree with this

I don't like Sky_Paladin's push on Serenes very much. it felt more like scum who felt the need to overly justify a push on an easy target; from a town POV it would make more sense to vote as soon as you get a scum read instead of sitting around and waiting, and the point about being "reckless" is more of a straw man than an actual point. he doesn't have much focus or scumhunting outside of Serenes either; there's a few pokes here and there but the only hard push is on Serenes. it feels premanufactured.

vote: Sky_Paladin

p-edit: ^here's 2 reasons. why do you have him as town?

[Kilgamayan]

>_> Uh okay. I'm not sure I understand not being able to find anything more worth doing with one's vote than maintaining an unsubstantiated one, but if the culture here is that such is okay then I'll have to acclimate. I do think using a vote to pressure someone you're not 100% convinced is town is a better use of said vote, though.

Fake edit: Oh, well, okay then.

[pieguyn]

also

I think BDSM folks should call truce for today and focus on others for now.
I don't see either of them as scum anyway.

you have a town read on Sakura?

p-edit:

>_> Uh okay. I'm not sure I understand not being able to find anything more worth doing with one's vote than maintaining an unsubstantiated one, but if the culture here is that such is okay then I'll have to acclimate. I do think using a vote to pressure someone you're not 100% convinced is town is a better use of said vote, though.

that's kind of what it was to some extent. I didn't see much of a point in not leaving it on the Shadoweh wagon, either, so I didn't move it.

[Sky_Paladin]

PIE

from a town POV it would make more sense to vote as soon as you get a scum read instead of sitting around and waiting

That is what I did. I asked a number of questions to Serene Forest, SB, and Rylia. I voted SF because their response to pressure was apparently to change their story and claim they had some reason for voting Shadoweh. It looks like baloney to me.

If I removed my vote because it wasn't popular right now, then there's no point applying pressure.

the point about being "reckless" is more of a straw man than an actual point.

How would

you

describe Serene Forests backflip on SB?

[Kilgamayan]

(No offense was intended with that statement btw, reading it now that I've posted it makes it looks like I'm insulting the playerbase here when that wasn't my intention)

Malakittens: If you do indeed have thoughts about players, would you be amenable to sharing them? A nontrivial portion of the content in this game so far seems to be based on player meta and game history and I am at a decided disadvantage here when it comes to both of those things. It doesn't matter to me that you have a different sorting method than most, I'd like to see what you have anyway.

[Sky_Paladin]

I do think using a vote to pressure someone you're not 100% convinced is town is a better use of said vote

100% agree and this is my play.

[GuyInFreezer]

also

I think BDSM folks should call truce for today and focus on others for now.
I don't see either of them as scum anyway.

you have a town read on Sakura?

p-edit:

>_> Uh okay. I'm not sure I understand not being able to find anything more worth doing with one's vote than maintaining an unsubstantiated one, but if the culture here is that such is okay then I'll have to acclimate. I do think using a vote to pressure someone you're not 100% convinced is town is a better use of said vote, though.

that's kind of what it was to some extent. I didn't see much of a point in not leaving it on the Shadoweh wagon, either, so I didn't move it.

I do.
Not that strong though.
I just don't think scum sakura would pop her double vote too early.

[pieguyn]

That is what I did. I asked a number of questions to Serene Forest, SB, and Rylia. I voted SF because their response to pressure was apparently to change their story and claim they had some reason for voting Shadoweh. It looks like baloney to me.

If I removed my vote because it wasn't popular right now, then there's no point applying pressure.

then you usually withhold votes until you're relatively sure someone is scum?

what I'm saying is it would have made more sense to jump on Serenes as soon as you first started pushing him instead of waiting until he "changed his story" - which I think is more likely to come from scum testing the waters to see how well-received the push would be.

How would

you

describe Serene Forests backflip on SB?

it was exactly what he said it was.

his point was never that SB was being "reckless", it's that SB wouldn't make a joke about his meta of bussing on another site as town. then he dropped it when he decided SB-scum wouldn't be that reckless. how is that the same thing as SB-scum being reckless?

[Malakittens]

(No offense was intended with that statement btw, reading it now that I've posted it makes it looks like I'm insulting the playerbase here when that wasn't my intention)

Malakittens: If you do indeed have thoughts about players, would you be amenable to sharing them? A nontrivial portion of the content in this game so far seems to be based on player meta and game history and I am at a decided disadvantage here when it comes to both of those things. It doesn't matter to me that you have a different sorting method than most, I'd like to see what you have anyway.

Well, you're not really at a disadvantage with meta. You just need to figure out how to use it correct to those who have it. As for experience in playing with some players my reads are better with time.

Notty and I are bffs outside of mafia and in mafia games. He easy to read with time because he hates playing scum. So rn because hes excited and on a power hungry doesn't exactly make him town at the moment, but leaning town. If he's excited at scum it's because he's probably playing it with someone he likes. He doesn't like playing scum against friends.

I'm actually leaning town on GiF and I have a slight town-lean on Pie. Gif/Pie I have played with, but pretty bad at reading them. I normally let Notty sort them once I have a firm read on him.

SAkura I can read easily. It's more how her posts flow that gives scum or town vibes. Right now it's too early to tell on her.

Muffin and I butt heads in games. So I'm not bothering to read him at the moment.

AD plays similar as scum and town. I'm better at reading him in F2F and pretend im a mason with him to figure out what he's feeling.

I don't have many reads on other players. I won't until probably half way til D1 ends. I need more information, more interactions.

[Sky_Paladin]

@Pie

then you usually withhold votes until you're relatively sure someone is scum?

Yes. Doubly so in a game where voting can have unintended side effects. My most recent town game on Shrine Maiden I didn't vote in RVS at all despite questioning several players.

what I'm saying is it would have made more sense to jump on Serenes as soon as you first started pushing him instead of waiting until he "changed his story"

I couldn't vote Serene as soon as I started pushing, because he only changed his story in response to questioning. That is why I questioned first. If I voted first, that would mean I had predetermined to vote him, and that was not the case.

I was also trying to determine if there is some scum motivation for SB and Serene's apparent mutual defends of each other. I think this is the case, so I want to pressure this relationship.
SB had 0 votes and with 10 to lynch, 1 vote isn't much pressure. Serene already had some votes, so putting another one there is more likely to yield useful information in response to pressure.

[thdgkdms]

Lily would first like to say that Lily has no qualms with keeping Lily's vote on that Forest that is Serene.
Lily does not like how the Serene Forest went about making a case on SB.
Lily does not like the fact that the Serene Forest voted for Shadoweh instead of anyone else given that Lily notes that Shadoweh had yet to post at this point in time.
Lily does not like how Serene Forest attempts to discredit Lily by saying that Lily hasn't read the Forest's posts properly. The forest refers to posts made after Lily's posts and says that Lily is not reading because Lily did not read the posts that did not exist at the time when Lily made Lily's post. Lily is trying to learn how but Lily can't see the future! Yet!

thdg hasn't read my posts properly and my last 3 posts should clarify why I initially thought SB was scum and don't really think so anymore.

Lily does not like Serene Forest's cases and how a lot of them seem to be based on people not being clear about who they think are scummy. Lily does not think that this by itself is particularly scummy but Lily notices that these arguments contradict with one of the Forest's earlier statements!

Explaining my current vote would kill the whole point of the vote, I'll do so when Shadoweh has had the chance to post.

I'm guessing this is a site thing where people withhold their reads and vote for strategy purposes? My problem reading muffin extends to most of the other mafiascum players who haven't made clear read statements.

Lily wonders why it is okay for the Forest that is supposedly Serene to withhold the reasoning for their read while arguing against other people for not explaining themselves?
Lily doesn't think that the Serene Forest is very Serene at all.

[thdgkdms]

Lily is trying to make more posts but everybody is posting so much and Lily is having a hard time keeping up! Lily will keep trying her best though!

[notscience]

Notty and I are bffs outside of mafia and in mafia games. He easy to read with time because he hates playing scum. So rn because hes excited and on a power hungry doesn't exactly make him town at the moment, but leaning town. If he's excited at scum it's because he's probably playing it with someone he likes. He doesn't like playing scum against friends.

Or as scum, that I have a PR or that I haven't been scum in a while

:p

Also lolwat letting me sort pie

I can sort giffy though!

[The_Relentless]

do people actually not want massclaim or are they just ignoring the mention of it. that suggestion was serious btw, I have a Zany Town Role and I imagine most people have Zany Town Roles and having everything on the table tends to squeeze out scum fast in these set-ups, because their roles aren't Zany Town Roles but roles made to combat Zany Town Roles

also if we're gonna do multi-lynch then the people w/ responsible abilities should be picking the targets so they're held accountable. + less scum interference with the choice if responsible players are town

pg.4
SB #86: I don't agree with this. for one the environment is different, second tryharding itself doesn't look scummy to people, just the relevant logic, and if Serenes Forest is tryharding then they believe their tryhard logic is good and not going to get them flack
Serenes Forest #94: asking questions gets other players involved, idle commentary does nothing to move the game. still don't understand your logic for dropping SB

pg.6
ActionDan #131: is this really all you have to open the game with? like, no opinions on Serenes shenanigans whatsoever?

pg.7
Shadoweh #151: 1) what "million questions at once" did Serenes have to answer 2) why can't they scumhunt while answering them 3) why wouldn't they bother with the meta-analysis as scum? this is a non-defense, like you decided Serenes was town and then tried to justify it afterwards
Shadoweh #148: I will

DESTROY

you

pg.9
pieguyn #202: I feel like I'm either misunderstanding your logic here or Serenes' because from what I can tell Serenes' vote wasn't "wrong" in context of a new forum, it was just over-the-top. + there are reasons to find Serenes scum other than the SB vote - they do nothing w/ SB's responses and as they backpedal from the vote they don't really focus elsewhere. since the pressure on them seriousgamestarted I would expect town them would have more to talk about instead of just defaulting to Shadoweh jokewagon

Kilgamayan #224: fooling around is less forgivable when the game is transitioning out of the fooling around stage, which it was when GuyInFreezer was posting (which was also before half the the game was established as useless noise). I think Kagami's vote was real (read: Early Day 1 Real) but we can wait for her explanation...... if she wants to live.....

---

actually I hate Kilga's vote on me bc it's pretty shallow to call a post "horrible" when your problems with it are all nitpicks about how much weight I'm placing on empty ED1 posts, nothing about my actual case. basically I imagine somebody would conclude I am voting Serenes over GuyInFreezer and Kagami for a reason. being vitriolic toward Kagami is also not actually a scumtell. I don't find the vote scummy since the rest of his post is pretty fair but I also don't get it, at all

frustratingly I don't have much to say @ individual posts because most of it is spam or based on past games I know nothing about. also people keep cutting me I haven't more than skimmed like anything on pg.10. @

zMuffinMan

: you seem to know most people in this game and have opinions, tell me the alignments of notscience, Sakura Hana & GuyInFreezer and !!explain why!! ( <- important) bc when people's posts are about obscure meta between each other I just glaze over them

I didn't like GuyInFreezer earlier but now I realize I somehow interpreted this post as a weird vague response to the question about Serenes when that obviously isn't the case, go figure..... still I can't shake off this feeling he's spamming to establish a "presence" without really being there. sure, withholding reads happens, but if you look at his ISO very few of his posts are actually advantageous to make, it's just armchair commenting. contrast this w/ zMuffinMan who is playing similarly but actually doing things. I feel similarly about Kagami, and ActionDan but I got a "just checking in" vibe from his posts. actually this kind of posting style seems to be a http://www.mafiascum.net general thing but it's still Frustrating & Bad so please come actually play mafia

aside from Shadoweh's vote being horrible & terrible & against the Will of God I don't like her posts. gut reads are whatever but she's had no real sway on the game so far. like, if she was town who hated the wagon on Serenes you'd think she'd try harder to disassemble it, instead we get some unexplained logic for town-Serenes and no push to actually stop the votes

would sheep pieguyn on Sky_Paladin but don't have anything interesting to add. I still think Serenes is the big mafia lord here though, moreso than people interacting with him weirdly.

this post's formatting is shit, so,
Scum: Serenes Forest, Shadoweh, Sky_Paladin
Bad: GuyInFreezer, Kagami, ActionDan
Town: Who Even Knows

[Malakittens]

I don't like masclaim esp D1