Corpse Party Mafia [WRONG END]

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:40 pm

I doubt we're making the ideal darkness deadline. Even if all the active players in the game were to vote the same player within the next 3 hours.

In post 1245, Shadowcat wrote:A summary of my reads:

<snip>

Your reads weren't exactly unclear, though, so I don't really think a summary was necessary (I could have guessed all that from your posts with the possible exception of the Mikazuki read).

It was the explanation for your reads that's unclear (and I guess how and why they have or haven't changed over the course of the game, but that's something that could be discussed after the explanations are given).

It's kind of getting ridiculous that both your heads have not been able to talk about your reads in the 9 RL days this game has been going for (not including the night phase). I understand busy schedules and other things that could be affecting your time, but really.

Heck, I don't even care so much about you going into detail as you giving reasons at all. I have a vague understanding that you think my play is "scummy" and that you think Loki hasn't been "playing to his town meta" and that you have a gut read scum read on Skold and now I guess I know you're uncertain on Mikazuki. I'm not looking for a ten-thousand-word essay with a complete bibliography full of references. Just elaboration.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:54 pm

Anyway, since we're not making the 96-hour deadline (probably), I'm just going to add 48 hours to the ideal deadline.

I'm rather disappointed with how this day phase has played out. Though I suppose if either or both of Skold and Shadowcat are scum, then technically stalling is in their best interests. Whatever.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:00 pm

I can always count on you, girl with empty eyes staring into my soul.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:12 pm

I'll be moving my pseudo-vote to one of Skold or Shadowcat in the next 12-24 hours (pending any content from them and what I think of said content if it ever appears).

Corpse Party: The family game for people of all ages. It teaches you fantastic moral values like... "Little children are evil monsters." And "Being at school sucks. I bet you wish you were at home right now!"

Pseudo-Votecount 2.5

Shadowcat (5)

: White Narcissus, SXTLHGaiden, Zymf, Mikazuki, Ankamius

Skold (2)

: Thor and Loki, notscience

ZeL1nK2 (1)

: Shadowcat

Thor and Loki (1)

: ZeL1nK2

Not Pseudo-Voting (3)

: Skold, ZZZX, Witness Protection

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to Pseudo-lynch. We're aiming for a lynch within (expired on 2015-04-10 00:00:30).

Spoiler: DAY ONE PSEUDO-VOTECOUNTS

Spoiler: DAY TWO PSEUDO-VOTECOUNTS

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:46 am

In post 1257, Mikazuki wrote:Speaking of which, how much more conversing with Loki do you need to do before you give us your reads?

How much of my posts have you actually read? I wasn't aware it was unclear what my thoughts on the game are.

In post 1272, Shadowcat wrote:Because if multiple people on multiple nights could access the benefit it could make it almost impossible for scum to get rid of PRs, even with the downside that the PRs use would be limited by it.

Perhaps a silly question, but why do you think this?

Even assuming it was possible to know how the night darkness mechanic worked and how it would interact with that ability, I don't see the imbalance here. Unless you were assuming scum couldn't raise darkness above 100% in a single night?

In post 1273, Shadowcat wrote:Yes gut reads are unclear, by their very nature, and hopefully we can refine them as the game goes on.

Your reads are... gut reads? All of them?

In post 1275, Mikazuki wrote:Shadow's recent posts strike me as frustrated town.

I could perhaps understand reading frustration in those posts (though I don't really see any frustration in them myself). Why is it town?

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:02 am

Which reads are unclear?

Also even if I were to agree that everything Shadowcat said was reasonable (I don't), I'm not sure where you got "effort" from and why that doesn't look like "dodging".

I mean, breaking down #1272... She responded to a couple questions, but the answers aren't exactly awe-inspiring. The third part of it serves no purpose except to... what? Make White Narcissist feel bad? And the fourth part is questioning that isn't exactly hard to do. #1273 is just... nothing. It reads like a long-winded excuse (probably because that's what it is).

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:07 am

Out of interest, Shadowcat, could you point me to other games you've played where your reads have been entirely gut that you've been unable to explain?

And also, perhaps, one or two of your most recent scum games.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:35 am

@Mikazuki,

I think I went over my reads on most (if not all) players when I talked to Loki earlier in the day. If there were reads I didn't go over with him, it's probably because I agreed with that read and didn't feel a need to talk about it. I don't know who you're specifically asking me to talk about. Unless it's just a general "I want you to talk about everybody" in which case, eh, I don't see a point.

Shadowcat doesn't have to include both of their heads' reads. I would settle for one head's reads explained if the other can't contribute.

I'm still unsure what you mean by effort and what you think is reasonable. I broke down what she was saying in her recent posts and described what I didn't like about them - though I forgot to mention the omission of what I'd consider actual content, now that I think about it. I don't think any effort was required to make those except the basic effort it takes to type out a response on a keyboard (so I don't know... however many finger muscles that takes plus about five minutes of time).

I'd like to see something along the lines of, "these are posts I don't like from ZeL1nK and here is why." I mean if you were to ask me to look at a 200-post ISO and talk about which posts I do or don't like, it would maybe take me... half an hour at most? With 10 RL days of day time and 2 RL days of night time, they've been unable to do this once the entire game. Like, I'm aware real life takes precedence, but unless you read very slowly and cannot take more than 10-15 minutes out of your day on average to play, I don't see the issue here. And if you really can't do that, why are you playing mafia?

This game isn't even very heavy on wall posts. There are some somewhat lengthy posts here and there but for the most part the content is rather light. I'm pretty sure if I wanted to, I could read through and analyse this game in less than 2 hours (maybe 3 if breaks are taken or if I sit down and think about stuff). 2-3 hours of reading over the course of almost 2 weeks now. I'm sorry if they genuinely cannot find that much time for the game. But at a certain point, it looks like excuses with no intent to actually do anything. It's not even that they're not here or not posting. It's just that what they are posting is continued promises to give explanations later...

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:44 am

Note: notscience has flavour-claimed. Sort of. At least we know he's a ghost (and, in hindsight, the fact that he's been hinting that he doesn't accrue darkness is probably why he didn't claim his darkness level, though that slipped my mind at the time).

I'm having a hard time parsing that post.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:59 am

In post 1286, Mikazuki wrote:I do agree with you that looking through posts and stuff shouldn't be that big of an issue but I just don't think it's my place to assume how much time other people have available to them, especially people with family commitments. There is still a limit to my patience though of course, like I mentioned before, there comes a point where if you still haven't read and contributed to a game, you'd be better off spending your time elsewhere.

I probably wouldn't care in another game with, say, two-week deadlines. But in this game in particular, the constant promises of content later just reads like excuses to stall for time. Maybe they genuinely don't have time. OK. It would help if, rather than writing a reads summary that anybody who is reading their posts can pretty much put together anyway, they use what little time they have to, oh, I don't know...

Talk about their scum reads or something useful like that.

In post 1290, Mikazuki wrote:Zelink, what do you think of ZZZX?

The interactions with lufan that I talked about with Loki made me think more likely town.

As far his actual content goes, I don't remember liking anything he's written so far.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:06 am

For the record, we have already ticked over into the third 48-hour phase. We have about 40 hours before we hit the next 48-hour mark.

So yes, while we've already used up a decent amount of time, there's no difference between lynching now and, say, 35 hours from now in terms of darkness gained.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:21 am

My understanding of post #2 is that the additional 24 hours granted did not count towards the 48-hour ticks. Though it's probably a good idea to verify that (since it's the difference between 40 hours and 16 hours left).

@pieguy

Could you please clarify whether the 24-hour extension affected the 48-hour ticks?

This is what I'm assuming the deadline until the next tick is...

Imagine being the poor janitor at Heavenly Host Elementary School. Life would suck. I mean... If he or she is even alive in the first place...

Pseudo-Votecount 2.6

Shadowcat (5)

: White Narcissus, SXTLHGaiden, Zymf, Mikazuki, Ankamius

Skold (2)

: Thor and Loki, notscience

ZeL1nK2 (1)

: Shadowcat

Thor and Loki (1)

: ZeL1nK2

notscience (1)

: Skold

Not Pseudo-Voting (2)

: ZZZX, Witness Protection

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to Pseudo-lynch. We're aiming for a lynch within (expired on 2015-04-10 00:00:30).

Spoiler: DAY ONE PSEUDO-VOTECOUNTS

Spoiler: DAY TWO PSEUDO-VOTECOUNTS

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:27 am

In post 1316, White Narcissus wrote:
In post 1315, Sakura Hana wrote:I'd say we have (expired on 2015-04-09 00:00:30) until the 3rd tick.
~Sakura

Also we're better off assuming it's earlier rather than later, it does say any deadline extensions are added beforehand giving us extra time until the first tick, which means the first tick was counted 3 days into the game. Or isn't this why you asked for a deadline extension? I thought it was.
~Sakura

That is why I asked, but I'm not certain what post #2 is saying.

I assumed we have 40 hours to the next tick but post #2 could be saying 48-hour ticks still count as normal but after the initial day deadline has passed, no additional darkness will be accrued. It's not clear.

Either way, pieguy should clarify.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:34 am

In post 1325, White Narcissus wrote:Day 2+ deadlines are 10 days, The ticks happen at: 8 days left, 6 days left, 4 days left, 2 days left, deadline. What bothers me if that was the reason why you asked for the extension why are you asking pieguy as if you do not know whether it affects it or not, if you really were asking for that extension for that said reason you'd have asked him when you asked for the extension (or right after he granted it) not right now.
~Sakura

To make sure I'm not interpreting it incorrectly.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:35 am

I assumed my interpretation was the correct one. It cannot hurt to make sure.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:42 am

In post 1335, White Narcissus wrote:But i'd still would have felt better if you had asked earlier

It didn't occur to me that I might be interpreting it incorrectly.

When you brought it up, I figured I should clarify just in case.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:26 am

In post 1367, Shadowcat wrote:Because both Huntress and I agreed that he was town and the better route to go considering he could be an easy target to due everything that happened D1.

What does this mean? Better route than what? Why would he be an "easy target"?

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:35 pm

In post 1377, Thor and Loki wrote:Hey zelink bb what do you think about that claim?

Part of me wants to call it town because I'm not sure pieguy gives scum two rather similar fake-claims (I can imagine it being a possibility in "don't try to outguess the mod" fashion, but it goes against my theory that scum have fake-claims tied into their roles). Part of me wonders why pieguy even gave Mayu that fake-claim in the first place when it was possibly going to be outright counter-claimed if Shadowcat is town. That seems like poor modding.

It's also technically confirmable, assuming whoever they target doesn't die and their role isn't interfered with in some way. It's a rather... inconvenient coincidence... that they happened to target possibly the only player in the game who cannot confirm or deny it worked on them.

It's at least somewhat consistent with what they've been hinting at.

I'm also somewhat interested in the answer to this: Do they know whether the -40% darkness applies before whatever the scum darkness raising mechanic is?

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:54 pm

Also still waiting for the promised content. I'm kind of just ignoring posts like #1394 now because reading excuses and suggestions that I'm arrogant for thinking they could find time to write content in the last two weeks is getting kind of boring.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:01 pm

By the way, Loki.

Can I ever expect you to actually answer the questions I've asked? Particularly where you stand on scum reads right now, how your read on Gaiden has progressed over the course of the game, what your current read on Mikazuki is and, I guess, what your thoughts on recent posts by Shadowcat and Skold are.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:38 pm

@White Narcissist,

What do you currently think of Skold?

And what do you think of the idea of lynching Skold today?

(I know you want a Shadowcat lynch, I just can't recall seeing you comment on the idea of a Skold lynch lately.)

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:40 pm

In post 1386, Malakittens wrote:its not gaurennteed it will work because I dont know how much scum # of darkness they can raise

I find this statement a little awkward.

I think if I had their role, I'd be assuming I'm some sort of weakened form of doctor (with the ability to protect from darkness kills but not decrease their darkness completely).

Unless they're making the assumption scum can raise darkness over 140% or this was a brain fart, I don't really understand this post.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:42 pm

In post 1404, White Narcissus wrote:I don't care for random lurker lynches. Skold needs to get replaced, not lynched.

I didn't really like his recent posts. None of the thoughts in them made any sense to me. I can't even really parse what he's trying to say a lot of the time.

For example, I

think

he called me town then FoSed me then called me town again? And I think he called you scummy for not flavour-claiming then decided you were a town lean?

It's a mess of a post.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:44 pm

And that's ignoring the part about it not making any sense whatsoever because technically notscience has flavour-claimed (at least partially). And when I pointed this out he didn't even acknowledge it. I don't really know what he's doing and I can't make sense of what his posts are saying.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:02 pm

I could see scum being able to raise darkness to 100% in a single night (obviously). I just don't really see why pieguy would put a role like that in the game AND allow scum to raise darkness to over 140% (not 100%, 140%).

The statement is awkward because it assumes their role is a red herring, essentially.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:36 pm

Oh right, I misread that part.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:43 pm

In post 1415, White Narcissus wrote:Don't see how not making sense is scummy or lynchworthy

Perhaps I described it badly. It's not

just

that his posts don't make sense (although they don't, and even if I misread the part about you, I don't think I'm misreading the part about me). It's that I'm having a hard time seeing genuine scum hunting in those thoughts.

What do you make of those posts?

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:05 pm

Ah, I didn't mean that particular part. Just the post in general as a catchup post and I guess the overall flow/direction of it. Unless you meant the post felt genuine as a whole?

Also, it bugs me a bit when someone says stuff like "this is my worst town game in a while" or something along those lines.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:17 pm

The fact that Loki and Broki are lurking through this entire day phase is not cool. Not cool, Loki. Not cool.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:40 am

In post 1426, Thor and Loki wrote:Scum targets player with 100% darkness, Shadowcat lowers it to 60% and thus they survive. Scum targets player again, player is raised to 160% darkness, Shadow lowers it to 120% and they die anyways.

That depends on how it works.

This is part of why I'm interested in whether they know how it works in relation to the scum darkness raising mechanic.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:42 am

What was your darkness level at the end of D1, Loki?

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:52 am

In post 1431, Thor and Loki wrote:And, for a grand finale:

A brief summary of my Gaiden read and its evolution throughout the years:

-Gaiden's opening is scummy!
-Gaiden's cheekiness is townie!
-I don't really have many scum suspects and Gaiden hasn't done anything at all!

What's your read on Mikazuki and Zymf again (and why)?

Are they both town reads? Last I remember, you were iffy on Mikazuki.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:54 am

Oh, and Anamikus. Who I seem to recall you had issues with before? Or included him in a group of scummy players?

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:04 am

I really wish you didn't drop #1428 and leave.

Now I'm trying to figure out (a) why you'd do that, and (b) what it means about the game.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:05 am

In post 1155, Skold wrote:I am Kirosake Kensuke. Also goddamn you people post like like a mailman on crack.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:11 am

I'm trying to wrap my head around why you think Shadowcat's role synergises with (or "triggers") yours.

But it's hard to do that without outright asking you to claim.

I really don't understand why you dropped #1428. Eh.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:17 am

Oh. Never mind. I thought you were saying "things happen at a 70% rate" as in "I get 70% of the darkness I'm supposed to."

That makes more sense.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:35 am

In post 1461, Thor and Loki wrote:
In post 1432, White Narcissus wrote:I can buy nacho scum. Especially since bro is missing in action and he does lurk as scum

~Wis

Remember how BRO's lurking was strategic? Do you think it's strategic here?

I think it's lazy regardless of your alignment. I was more concerned with your lurking, to be honest.

Anyway, with 11 active players at the moment (until Zymf gets replaced), we're unlikely to achieve a lynch Shadowcat at this point, so it's technically off the table by default. 7 players required to lynch. Loki isn't going to vote them, notscience isn't going to vote them, Mikazuki seems unlikely to vote them and they're not going to self-vote. It would require all players outside of them to vote Shadowcat in the next 20 hours for a lynch on Shadowcat to happen before the next 48-hour tick.

To be frank, I'd still vote them today. Mostly because, while I don't think they're stalling for darkness reasons, I do think their reads are fake and the reason they keep saying later is because their reads are manufactured and they need time to make up whatever they're going to say. I don't care enough about their role claim that it's a factor here.

That said, I'm not opposed to lynching Skold. But eh. My issue with him at the moment is basically lack of content and what little content there is doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I have no strong feelings Skold is going to flip scum.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:38 am

Oh, that and Skold's reasoning behind his reads here is almost completely unlike his reasoning in the newbie games I linked at some point. I'm aware they don't have intensive flavour/mechanics, but still, any time he mentions a scum read here, it's based on not-actually-play-related stuff.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:38 am

That was, ironically, written before I saw #1478.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:08 am

I don't think meta is a be-all-end-all tool, but I do think it can be useful in assessing particular things. It is certainly not something I would use by itself, but in tandem with other issues I have with your play so far (namely, continued lack of real content - or, rather, continued lack of assessing play in any way), it doesn't help that I can find games where you've been town and, even if you lost or did something as silly as self-hammering, the way you went about forming reads was certainly a lot different than what you've done here.

It also just occurred to me while reading back over Newbie 1582 that Taly was in that player-list and it clicked that one of the reasons Taly might have died last night is because you're familiar with him and he's somewhat familiar with how you play as town. Though this also may just be a coincidence.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:21 am

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Though I acknowledge it's by no means a certainty, it is a thought that occurred to me when thinking about it just then.

I can think of alternate explanations, like perhaps someone was PR hunting (assuming Seiko had a PR of sorts), but this doesn't seem likely. Or perhaps it had to do with Taly's reads, but I don't even remember what they were or if he had any solid stances.

Taly was a strange kill. I could see someone with previous experience with Taly killing him.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:27 am

Meta can be a double-edged sword. I would not use it to describe someone playing different from their scum game or similar to their town game. I would use it to describe someone playing different from their town game or similar to their scum game. At worst, it can lead to useful discussion. It's only dangerous when people use it to suggest someone isn't playing like how they do as scum so they're town, or something like that. Many a fool hath been taken down with this reasoning. Yes, you, person-who-is-reading-this-game-but-not-actually-playing. Yes, you.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:35 am

I can't say "votecount, please" because people are actually voting now and it won't be as funny. (It was funny before, though. I don't care what anyone thinks.)

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:42 am

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum: Skold

Just so it's clear where my current thoughts on the lynch are.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:51 am

It's not the reactions that bother me, it's the content he's producing.

(Also I imagine if there's anything close to a goon in this game, they have a VT fake-claim. At the very least, scum have the option of claiming VT if they so choose.)

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:05 am

I see it.

I don't like Shadowcat for not providing content.

But I also don't like Skold for the content he's provided.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:22 am

So I guess 1d15hours until the next tick.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:31 am

I think this is an accurate representation of the current pseudo-votes.

Mikazuki hasn't officially unvoted (that I remember seeing) but has indicated she is unwilling to lynch Shadowcat so I removed her vote from the Shadowcat wagon.

I see ghosts so mean, red corpses too, nothing but gloom, for me and you, and I think to myself... What a terrible school.

Pseudo-Votecount 2.7

Shadowcat (5)

: White Narcissus, SXTLHGaiden, Zymf, Ankamius, Witness Protection

Skold (3)

: Thor and Loki, notscience, ZeL1nK2

ZeL1nK2 (1)

: Shadowcat

Not Pseudo-Voting (3)

: Mikazuki, Skold, ZZZX

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to Pseudo-lynch. We're aiming for a lynch within (expired on 2015-04-11 00:00:30).

Spoiler: DAY ONE PSEUDO-VOTECOUNTS

Spoiler: DAY TWO PSEUDO-VOTECOUNTS

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:33 am

In post 1516, 4nxi3ty wrote:so from what I've skimmed so far there should be no dilly-dallying during the day cause of darkness increase, so why did this day make it so close to deadline?

Easter, lurking, active-lurking, take your pick.

As for a summary... Stuff happened. Scum flip D1. People lurking today. The end.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:37 am

It seems fairly obvious, though.

Pseudo-voting until a pseudo-lynch is achieved. Then actually vote said player. Avoid unnecessary darkness increase on other players.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:45 am

In post 1515, Mikazuki wrote:
In post 1393, pieguyn wrote:
if I need to extend the deadline, the darkness timer is paused until the "extra" time runs out.

Maybe my English is just that bad, I took this to mean that it's still darkness increasing every 48 hours regardless of extensions, until we pass the original 10 day deadline, and then the darkness is delayed.

I cut out the unnecessary stuff. It says when a deadline extension happens, the darkness timer is paused until the extended time is run through.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:55 am

It's on page one.

Though someone suggested FoS instead of RVS before me.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:19 am

I am aware that he's either somewhat trying or at least trying to look like he's trying.

It doesn't change my opinion on the content he's produced.

Literally all of the things he's mentioned as scummy so far have been things that have nothing to do with actual play and everything to do with either flavour or mechanics or I don't even know what he was thinking with the ZZZX thing but it seems to have been because ZZZX missed the flavour claim...

I am not screaming for his lynch or anything (at least not at the moment). I just don't like what I've seen so far.

I agree the intent matters. I just don't see whatever you're apparently seeing. I mean, unless you're expecting him to lay down and die as scum, of course he was going to write something so I don't think writing stuff is necessarily a town trait, or I don't see whatever you're seeing that's town in the actual content.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:43 pm

Although I am interested in the case on me, it is not the only thing I'm referring to when I refer to a lack of content.

Here are the things I would like to see from you (apart from the case on me):

- An explanation of what you think the differences between Loki's scum and town games are, specifically as it applies to this game and why he isn't playing to his "town meta"
- Where your "gut scum read" on Skold came from (given at the time he didn't have really any worthwhile content - was it just a lack of content?)
- An explanation of any other scum reads you currently have. Because... Well... There aren't any explanations.

You are providing content insofar as writing posts that respond to some things could be called writing content. And you did produce a reads list. This is true. It's not that you're not producing

any

content, it's just that the content you are producing is not what I want to see. I've been waiting on you to explain your reads since this post, over 10 RL days ago now. You still haven't. Yes, busy schedules and real life priorities and whatnot. OK. It doesn't change what I'm saying. Even with your recent posts, I'm unsure why your reads are what they supposedly are.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:30 pm

In post 1570, Shadowcat wrote:Zel my scumread on you D1 was for two things. I reread the interactions with Lufan. Why WERE YOU reading PT's. You called Lufan out for that, but you are *almost* brand new yourself. So why were you LOOKING at the Pt's.

I wasn't reading PTs, I went through lufan's posts to see where else he'd posted (I was trying to figure out how much experience he had in mafia and if he perhaps posted somewhere else indicating his home site). I found it while looking through his posts (go to his profile->search user's posts->see it as the 4th or 5th post of his on site).

Also, you're getting into reallllllllly shady territory by asking me this question.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:45 pm

In post 1590, White Narcissus wrote:
In post 1588, Ankamius wrote:I asked because it changes how I look at that argument. Huntress was pretty quick to respond to my questions after the V/LA ending post and Mala's absence isn't alignment indicative, so I wanted to know if you were referring to something else with Huntress or if you had a different opinion with Mala.

Thing bothering me is that notty had claimed on D1 that he was immune to the Darkening, they claimed that they could reduce people's Darkening by 40% and targeted notty N1, so *shrug* either way, im rethinking my read right now, but i don't think Skold's scum i'd rather go to WP
~Sakura

To be fair, notscience's "claim" was that votes wouldn't do anything to him. And it is reasonable to assume someone may have missed that. Though I would also like to know where their town read on notscience came from if they were skimming his posts.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:49 pm

WP's drop in activity mildly bothers me.

I don't remember specifically why but I had him as town for play and interactions with lufan D1.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:08 pm

I'm actually more interested in the other head's reads, to be honest. I'm kind of hoping it's a lot more than that PT thing.

I don't mind mala's posts but, no offense, the reads lack depth. I am fine with the elaboration on the Loki read, though.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:18 pm

A cross-over of Corpse Party and The Sixth Sense: The plot is simply Haley Joel Osment walking around the entire school saying "I see dead people" over and over until he loses his voice and then the final boss is Bruce Willis. I'd play it.

Pseudo-Votecount 2.8

Shadowcat (3)

: SXTLHGaiden,

The Artist Formerly Known As Zymf

4nxi3ty, Witness Protection

Skold (3)

: Thor and Loki, notscience, ZeL1nK2

Witness Protection (2)

: White Narcissus, Ankamius

ZZZX (1)

: Mikazuki

Thor and Loki (1)

: Shadowcat

Not Pseudo-Voting (2)

: Skold, ZZZX

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to Pseudo-lynch. We're aiming for a lynch within (expired on 2015-04-11 00:00:30).

Spoiler: DAY ONE PSEUDO-VOTECOUNTS

Spoiler: DAY TWO PSEUDO-VOTECOUNTS

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:58 am

I may not be around much before the ideal deadline, but I'll try to follow on my phone as much as I can.

I don't think anything Skold has written in this day phase looks particularly town. I don't really have time to talk about it right now, but his most recent posts coupled with the fact I think he's lurking for no good reason (he's posting elsewhere, reading gaiden ISO takes all of like 10 seconds, same for ZZZX ISO, but no content here, and his last post came about 3 minutes before a post of mine he could have easily responded to or given an update on where he's at but he didn't, and I just don't feel good about him right now).

I probably wouldn't be very sad at all if a Loki wagon happens today, actually. Though I doubt Skold+Loki are scum together so whatever.

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:59 am

I'll be around briefly in 7-8 hours then sporadically until the deadline maybe or maybe not.

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:05 am

In post 1659, Skold wrote:
In post 1655, ZeL1nK2 wrote:(he's posting elsewhere...[tab][/tab]

Screw you man. Playing other games isn't a scumtell. Like seriously, screw you. I tried ISOing Gaiden, got bored. He's a townie who doesn't give any fucks. He probably gives less fucks than he should. Doing ZZZX soon.

You're right. It's not a scum tell by itself to play other games.

However, that alone isn't my issue with you.

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:21 am

I would like to lynch Skold. I think he's just scum at this point.

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:15 pm

Vote: Skold

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:18 pm

I just got home.

This is the deadline before the next 48-hour tick for anyone not paying attention.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to Pseudo-lynch. We're aiming for a lynch within (expired on 2015-04-11 00:00:30).

This is the current votecount (not including pseudo-votes):

Skold (3) - Thor and Loki, White Narcissus, ZeL1nK2
Thor and Loki (2) - notscience, Shadowcat

Not voting (7) - Ankamius, 4nxi3ty, Skold, ZZZX, SXTLHGaiden, Mikazuki, Witness Protection

ZeL1nK2 · Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:22 am

Well, whatever, we missed the 48-hour tick.

I would still like to lynch Skold.

ZeL1nK2 · Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:32 am

I'm not actually keeping track of claims except in my head. Gaiden has claimed VT with "modifiers" or something and Loki claimed something *happens* when they reach 70% darkness. ZZZX has flavour claimed. That's it, iirc.

And who I'd theoretically shoot depends on Skold's flip and any reading I did based on the flip.

ZeL1nK2 · Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:47 am

That seems kind of pointless since thinking about who's potentially scum with him would (a) involve me going back and reading the thread on the assumption he's scum (which may not be the case) and (b) ignore the fact that if he is scum, then interactions up to the point of lynch are still possibly relevant (at least prior to me pointing this out and making them potentially conscious of it).

If he flipped town, I'd probably just shoot Loki because you cannot truly say you love someone if you are unwilling to shoot them in the head.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:48 pm

In post 1756, pieguyn wrote:
Sorry for the huge delay; I'm sick atm

What is your darkness percentage? Be careful!

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:52 pm

I'm not particularly opposed to the idea of making Loki dead, though I'd rather it happen after everyone has checked in and preferably after people who were not up to date yesterday have provided some sort of content (like our dear replacement, for example).

In post 1766, ZZZX wrote:Holy *** tho my darkness skyrocketed to 70..,

A couple questions.

Can you claim your previous darkness percentages (end of D1, start of D2, end of D2)?
Did you target anyone last night?

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:04 pm

I'm thinking it could be related to scum manipulating Shadowcat's ability (with a 1.5x multiplier). Though this would require Shadowcat having targeted ZZZX, I guess.

I doubt scum directly increased ZZZX's darkness - he doesn't exactly scream high priority target.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:18 pm

I imagine most, if not all, abilities in this game revolve around darkness (and as such, any scum abilities probably manipulate darkness in some way). It's possible there's an ability like, "target someone, if they decrease someone's darkness, you make it increase instead," or something like that. I imagine the multiplier might just be because of Sachiko.

Anyway, not particularly important at the moment, just something I'm thinking about. Also the darkness increase yesterday was smaller than day one for some reason (4->2 per 48-hour phase).

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:26 pm

Well, if we do manage a lynch within 48 hours and that lynch isn't Sachiko, I guess that question will answer itself. And if it is Sachiko, then yay and I guess darkness will go as normal from that point onward so it doesn't matter.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:30 pm

Actually, my theory is something else that isn't public information caused the extra darkness D1.

But again, not something important to think about at this point in time. Probably need at least one more phase to figure out what sort of pattern/s we're looking at (if it's even worth thinking about at all, which it may not be - it could just be a distraction).

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:32 pm

Oh, right, I remembered something overnight which I wanted to ask about since it wasn't a part of Loki's claim.

In post 735, Thor and Loki wrote:Also, if we are lynching, we formally request the hammer.

What was this about?

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:43 pm

It's not all that specific. It's just a darkness redirecting ability, really. That was just a quick example of what it could have been. And if all abilities in the game involve darkness in some way, then it's really just a general redirecting ability. But, once again, this is not important to think about at the moment, probably.

Also, I didn't think that was a joke but they aren't very funny so I could see that, I guess. If it was a joke, then I would probably lynch them just for the awful sense of humour.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:57 pm

That he was implying role-related reasons for wanting it.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:59 pm

Generally when someone says, "I want the hammer," and they're not a chronic hammerer, it's because of their role.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:19 am

I was asking only ZZZX's since he'd already claimed.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:53 am

It's more that there's no discernible benefit to claiming darkness.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:21 pm

I would like to see your Mjolnir. If it pleases you.

Could you give a summary of your own thoughts on the game, seeing as Loki apparently doesn't have a computer? Or just who you would really like to smash with your big, sturdy, rock-hard Mjolnir and why?

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:53 pm

I doubt there was some grand scum plan in claiming to be at 70% unless he's doing it for some sort of town credit (as in, I doubt he's doing it with the intent to draw out claims since, you know, it's entirely possible no town player targeted him). I can perhaps think of one alternate explanation for it if he's scum but eh.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:18 pm

Also, even if we've thrown pseudo-votes out the window because yay, anarchy, I figure I may as well keep track of the 48-hour ticks.

The next one is in:

(expired on 2015-04-15 19:00:00)

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:21 pm

I will probably vote Loki before the next tick unless I see something that changes my opinion of the game.

In the mean time, I'll probably be reading back over various points of the game.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:28 pm

I'm not following any of that.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:32 pm

Like I get why it might be useful to draw out day phase but I mean... darkness ticks aren't

that

powerful that even if he drags it out over an extra 48-hour tick (assuming enough people agree that it's a point of contention), it doesn't particularly help scum a whole bunch. If anything, it just draws attention to himself.

I also doubt he was role-fishing, because, well... It's unlikely a town player targeted him and if they did, why would they reveal it unless they thought they caused whatever happened to him?

But even if there was some deep scum plan I'm not seeing, I don't really see the link to Loki or why it would make him more likely town.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:33 pm

To be clear, ZZZX could be scum, but the reasons you're positing are rather weak and if he is scum, it's more likely a, "hey guys, look at me, my darkness increased so I can't be scum!!" thing than any convoluted plan you've suggested.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:19 pm

That all kind of assumes that

(a) People think he's town (because it fails if people think it's a scum ploy)
(b) People think it's worth exploring

If no one claims to have targeted him and he targeted no one, how much further can the discussion go? "Oh, that's weird!" "Yeah!" "OK, well, whatever!"

I mean, if it was a scum strategy with some end-goal in mind, there are a few things I probably would have done differently (claimed a lesser amount, claimed I targeted someone, etc etc) so I doubt it was some well-thought-out scum ploy with a goal in mind like you're suggesting. He could be scum for simpler reasons, but the reasons you're suggesting are not good reasons to think so.

If it wasn't done with the simple intent of "I can't be scum, my darkness was increased!!" it's most likely something Loki came up with - either he's scum with ZZZX and asked them to claim that increase to make their role seem more viable or he's scum who did it to ZZZX-town as a means of proving it's possible to 70% darkness without dying or something like that.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:36 pm

In post 1840, Witness Protection wrote:Now here you're going in the opposite direction of Zelink. What makes you think Town attacked ZZZX? Even if it was Town (and ZZZX is scum), what makes you think someone just didn't claim their increase Day 1, or that it's not a one shot, or an even Night ability? How does Skold (scum) never claiming a Darkness increase (he got run up pretty quickly) have anything to do with ZZZX?

You're misunderstanding his point.

He's saying it's unlikely a town player did that to him so it would have had to be a scum ability. So ZZZX asking for people to claim whether they targeted him makes not a lot of sense. I agree with this, sort of, but I don't think ZZZX is the sharpest bulb so I mean... Derp seems more likely than evil scum ploy.

The Skold thing is simply because he (and Shadowcat, I guess, but I don't know why he left Shadowcat out) are the only ones who aren't still alive today and could have had their darkness unexpectedly interfered with (because anyone still alive could have claimed it by now).

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:36 pm

Although I would like to know why he thought it made Loki more likely town if ZZZX is scum. Because I'm still not following that at all.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:25 pm

Hm. By the same logic, it seems an unnecessary move if ZZZX is scum and LokiBroki is town.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:42 pm

In post 1850, Ankamius wrote:It makes a lot more sense in my head than ZZZX town making posts like that today. There's too much WIFOM and he's been focusing on it exclusively.

I probably wouldn't have reacted like he did, but different stokes, etc. I do not consider it outside the realm of possibility that a player like ZZZX might react in that way, and I have the opposite problem you seem to have - I'm struggling to see a scenario that fits here where he's scum unless it was a pre-planned thing that didn't adjust for the votes and push on LokiBroki or it was done with LokiBroki in mind.

ZeL1nK2 · Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:05 am

I would like to do some reading over the course of this day phase

Actually there was something in particular I wanted to revisit when I have time but that probably won't be until about 24 hours from now.

ZeL1nK2 · Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:01 am

Actually I'm probably going to start rereading chunks of this game, if not the whole game.

I'm finding myself just staring at the player list and thinking of reasons everyone could be town (but as nice as that would be, I have a feeling it's not correct - call it gut, if you will).

So I'm going to try to figure out where I'm going wrong today.

Also I'm not sure it's that big a deal if we use like 6 days this day phase since it seems to be a +3% thing rather than the multiplier I was assuming it was. And I'd rather take a bit of extra time to sort things out today since yesterday was rushed.

ZeL1nK2 · Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:04 am

In post 1883, Ankamius wrote:Gaiden's probtown.

Actually if I were thinking about it for the point of view of "least reasons to call someone town" I'd probay be thinking Gaiden. Why did you have him as probtown?

ZeL1nK2 · Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:16 am

Also the Taly kill is bugging me a lot.

I don't believe it was PR hunting because he'd already flavour-claimed and Seiko isn't exactly an important character compared to others.

I don't think he was a threat via day play - at the very least I don't recall him having much of an impact on the game whilst he was with us. Though when I have time I'll proabably look over his posts/ISO as well to see if anything sticks out there.

Like... Someone must have considered him a threat for some reason unless it was a pure WIFOM kill, but eh. Maybe it's a fruitless line of thinking and I should just stop considering it.

ZeL1nK2 · Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:30 am

I mean, I'd still like to lynch within a timely manner because dragging out days is rarely good anyway but I don't want to rush things for no good reason.

ZeL1nK2 · Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:30 am

Eh, I'm not really sure ZZZX is scum.

I'm currently contemplating the possibility WP-Mikazuki actually.

Sorry I haven't been around much lately but I'll be doing stuff today.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:36 am

In post 1913, Titus wrote:Where are my vote counts? Who did the pseudo counts?

They're all in my ISO (except they were completely disregarded D3 and today because... reasons, I guess.

D1/D2 votecounts, basically. Also when people started voting on D1/D2 I stopped updating the pseudo-votecounts.

You can just check the last one since it has them all spoilered anyway.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:38 am

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6754566

This is the last pseudo-votecount from D2 that has all of the previous ones in spoiler tags.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:47 am

In post 1909, Mikazuki wrote:I think that the remaining scum is in WP, Gaiden and Anxiety.

Why 4nxi3ty?

I don't recall Zymf doing *that* much but what he did I did not think was particularly scummy. Also, I thought the minor lufan interaction after lufan was lynched was actually more likely to come from town than scum. 4nxi3ty's posts haven't exactly been amazing but I don't have an issue with them.

Also, I suppose, why Gaiden? Other than Gaiden seemingly receiving vast amounts of pleasure from being as useless as possible. What do you think of Anamikus's point about the White Narcissist read on Gaiden?

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:57 am

In post 1905, notscience wrote:I doubt its miza

I think its wp and someone

Eh.

The thing is, Mikazuki has been saying all the right things I guess, but... I'm having second thoughts about how genuine these thoughts are. There are just small niggles here and there that are bothering me at the moment.

For example, I'm not sure whether this should actually bother me but I'm thinking back on yesterday and wondering how Mikazuki came to the +3% conclusion after just two day phases. I suppose you could argue it was a logical possibility but it sure wasn't the only possibility and there were definitely other factors that could have affected the darkness on each day (originally I thought a scum lynch may have caused double darkness that day and other days it was just a 2x multiplier). I mean, she could have just seen an obvious conclusion and came to it, I guess, and there's no guarantee it actually means anything one way or another, but it still bothers me.

I'm still going back over D1 stuff but the interactions with lufan could go either way. She voted him but... she also soft-defended him in a weird way. It looks somewhat awkward in retrospect - like a scum read while insisting someone might not actually be scum.

Also, I just have people I think are more likely to be town.

I'm not really scum reading you. I don't really think Anamikus is scum (with minor paranoia). I think 4nxi3ty is more likely town than scum. I think ZZZX is more likely town than scum too, though his posts aren't super strong so I'm not as certain as I'd like to be with this. And Gaiden... eh. Gaiden.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:12 am

In post 1926, Titus wrote:We shot ZZZX night 2 with a 60% darkness increase and he's still alive...

Why is this a surprise? Last I checked, 60% was a fair way off 100%! But I've never been good at mathematics, so maybe I'm wrong.

A preliminary look through WP's ISO says this isn't necessarily contradictory in any way, but I don't really think it's a town role.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:43 am

Just to be clear, you're a full vig and WP chose to shoot only on N2?

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:44 am

In post 1930, ZeL1nK2 wrote:
In post 1926, Titus wrote:We shot ZZZX night 2 with a 60% darkness increase and he's still alive...

Why is this a surprise?

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:21 pm

I don't really think Titus is town. I'm pretty OK with lynching her today.

ZeL1nK2 · Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:20 pm

In post 1951, Titus wrote:Giving scum two darkness enhancers is pretty whacked out.

That might be the case if you could use it every night. I do not think you can. It is perhaps only even night or it is perhaps limited shots. I'm not really sure which but I doubt you're a full vig. 11:3 with a scum member who can increase darkness every now and then isn't actually all that scum sided, I think. I was thinking scum would have to have some extra power somewhere because numbers.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:25 am

If scum were trying to pass it off as a vig (in the same vein as a serial killer might try to seem like they're a town vig), you're not exactly an awful shot. You're far from a consensus town read and a good target for the purposes of potential town credit.

The issue I have with WP being a town vig is why N2 only? I mean arguably he flaked N3 and didn't submit that night but I don't understand why he didn't do it N1 if it's not limited in some way. Also, while nothing he said yesterday suggested he didn't do it, I'm not sure why he didn't claim it. Again, arguably he could just have different theories about how to play the role than I do but I still don't like this.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:28 am

Also, his role seemingly synergised really well with Thor & Loki's.

There are two possibilities here.

WP/Titus is scum and Loki's role was potentially a town counter to it.

Or WP/Titus is town and it was meant to synergise.

I'm undecided on what I think is more likely but I'm leaning the former.

Actually, this just reminded me that I should go back and look at whether Loki claimed anything D2 and why WP didn't do it to him instead of ZZZX. I think they did claim D2? Or partial-claimed?

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:34 am

Oh right, this happened at the end of D2.

In post 1739, Witness Protection wrote:@ T&L Is 70% a good thing, or bad thing? Are you wanting to reach 70%?

In post 1751, Witness Protection wrote:@ WN What do you think of their claim of *something* happening at 70%?

Also, my character kinda likes Darkness, so I expect a degree of distrust. Darkness can bring honesty.

In post 1752, White Narcissus wrote:
In post 1751, Witness Protection wrote:@ WN What do you think of their claim of *something* happening at 70%?

I can't think of anything good happening when Naomi reaches 70% darkening.
~Sakura

Eh.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:38 am

Now I'm just trying to imagine the sorts of roles scum are likely to have in this game and I keep coming back to something like Titus's claimed role.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:45 am

Eh. Now I'm waffling on things while going back over lufan interactions D1.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:57 am

He wasn't, really. But the questioning of LokiBroki was a little weird.

I'm actually having second thoughts again. I'm going to revisit D1 and ponder. But I'm not around for the next 6 hours or so.

ZeL1nK2 · Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:36 pm

Titus, can you do whatever catch-up you're going to do within the next 24 hours?

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:25 am

In post 1989, SXTLHGaiden wrote:I just found the fact that zzzx was still alive to be completely unfathomable

Why?

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:07 pm

In post 2008, 4nxi3ty wrote:honestly tho I'm ready to lynch and wondering why people are getting cold feet here?

Because I'm looking at this game and realising that if Titus-slot is town, then a MyLo situation tomorrow is going to look extremely ugly.

Plus I'm not entirely sure the slot is scum and while I don't expect to be sure of anything, I'm at least having second thoughts. Though it would help greatly if this catch-up process would speed the heck up.

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:17 pm

The flavour for each of the abilities would be good, actually.

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:23 pm

Some of that analysis looks either wrong or faulty.

I don't understand the first line. Are you suggesting notscience is scum who didn't know Shadowcat's alignment D1? Also... Reads can change. There are probably a number of people who think someone is scum D1 and change their mind later.

Sometimes wagons on town stall - it doesn't mean there has to be scum on it, especially on a wagon so small.

I think Anamikus could be town, but why would distancing/bussing not be an option?

The observations in the last two lines aren't particularly deep.

ZeL1nK2 · Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:41 pm

I'm contemplating what to do today, I'll probably make a decision in the next couple hours. It'll either be ZZZX or Titus I think, since I doubt they're both town. But I also don't really think they're both scum so I'm thinking.

ZeL1nK2 · Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:50 am

The thing I'm thinking about right now is that the "vig" on ZZZX makes sense in context - he asked Skold who he'd vig, ZZZX hammered, Skold said ZZZX (and definitely ZZZX after the hammer) and that's what happened.

I'm thinking about whether or not scum-WP does this as a "vig for town cred" thing.

ZeL1nK2 · Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:08 pm

Eh. Going back over WP's posts, I think he was town. Or at least his play looked town.

ZeL1nK2 · Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:25 pm

Currently just considering the possibility of lynching someone outside of Titus/ZZZX and going from there.

Titus can "vig" ZZZX tonight (and really has no excuse not to). In the mean time, we try to hit other scum today (unless there's someone who believes they're scum together?). This should let us return to odd numbers. The only downside here is if there's a hidden scum mechanic to achieve an extra kill and we don't hit scum today.

ZeL1nK2 · Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:26 pm

Well, not "return" to odd numbers but go to odd numbers

ZeL1nK2 · Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:22 am

In post 1966, 4nxi3ty wrote:been combing through WP and what stood out to me was the d1 pvotes on gaiden and lufan. Was tempted to say nah not a double bus again but WP didn't really interact with either. I think the outoftheblue backtoback scumreads there are just the sort of thing scum do to distance but are afraid to acually talk to their buddies or push too hard.

I've been thinking about this and, well, nobody really had any interaction with lufan prior to the last few hours of D1.

As for gaiden, he is how he is.

In post 1966, 4nxi3ty wrote:Pushing for a Thorki lynch here doesn't add up with the role. I'd expect town with that role to push for thorki to live one more night to test what happens at 70%.

I've also been thinking about this and, well, it entirely depends on what he thought would happen at 70% - whether it would be a good thing or a bad thing. LokiBroki claimed D2 so he *could* have "shot" them N2. But he

did

technically ask about it at the end of D2 and the last thing White Narcissist said that day was that they couldn't think of anything good happening at 70%.

I'm not ruling out the possibility of Titus being scum, but I'm not seeing the actions as contradictory in any way and I think the play looks town~ish overall.

ZeL1nK2 · Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:52 am

I don't really see how. The way I see it, if we narrowed the lynch pool by, say, lynching gaiden and gaiden was town, then we went into night phase and scum kill whoever while titus "vig kills" ZZZX, there's a very limited pool of players who could possibly be scum and Titus would be pretty high on that list.

This is potentially not a great idea depending on whether scum have a means of auto-winning tonight somehow or if something else unexpected happens.

ZeL1nK2 · Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:17 am

I could see him as scum but the optimal play would seem to be lynching someone else and having ZZZX killed via "vig".

Though another fault I just thought of here is what to do in the event of ZZZX not dying tonight.

ZeL1nK2 · Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:28 am

What are your reads ZZZX?

ZeL1nK2 · Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:42 pm

Actually, I'm not sure I want to go for a last-minute wagon and it might just be safer to lynch within {Titus, ZZZX} today.

Reading stuff in the next hour or two and figuring it out.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:11 am

I thought Zymf was town. 4nxi3ty hasn't done much to change this. I would lynch many others before I think about lynching that slot.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:14 am

At the moment I'm basically at the point where I don't want to lynch 4nxi3ty or notscience and that's making me wonder what scum is doing right now since the Titus wagon is right there and nobody is hopping on it. But I think WP looked kinda town - I have slight misgivings about the way he used his role and the things he said about it, but overall, it looked town.

I'm actually considering just lynching ZZZX because it's safer than relying on a "vig" shot tonight and, well... to describe ZZZX's play as "lacking" would be up there among contenders for understatement of the year.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:19 am

Also I keep thinking about the Taly kill and what it might mean to the game. It's such a strange kill that it's always in the back of my mind as something I want to figure out. I cannot think of a good reason for it other than someone who had played with Taly before did it for some reason.

Most of this player list seemed kinda cliquey - Loki, WN, gaiden, Anamikus, notscience and Shadowcat all seem to have played together a fair bit from the conversations they were having this game and I'm trying to figure out why scum teams involving these players would shoot Taly over someone who knows them well enough to possibly spot them as scum.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:21 am

It would be disappointing if you're scum, Mikazuki, since you seem to be the only one who cares enough to actually write content.

Which is more a testament to how sad this player list is than anything, but whatever.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:40 am

I'm missing some crucial piece/s of information but I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for and where.

And it sure doesn't help that over half the game either isn't here or doesn't care enough to post anything worth reading.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:44 am

In retrospect, what happened D3 was really, really bad for this game.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:53 am

Part of me just wants to power-lynch ZZZX and Titus because whatever. If it ends the game, bleh.

The other part of me thinks that it's possible both are town and I don't really know how to proceed.

I'm considering the possibility of doing some weird lynch like Anamikus or something. But I don't think there's enough time for that anymore.

So I dunno.

Actually, I'm pondering why Loki thought 4nxi3ty and Gaiden were scum (or rather, that one of them was scum). It was never really explained except for PoE or something. And something with 4nxi3ty's vote.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:00 am

I kind of just want to die and be released from this game.

This town really sucks.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:08 am

In post 1873, pieguyn wrote:Thor and Loki (6) - White Narcissus, notscience, Mikazuki, Ankamius, 4nxi3ty, ZZZX

I'm still wondering why this wagon happened the way it did - like specifically what WN was thinking

The whole thing that happened at the beginning of the day looked like someone softing a guilty to me, which is why I put up no resistance to the idea

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:17 am

Eh.

I'll be back in a few hours, but it would not surprise me in the least if no one has written anything worth reading by the time I get back.

I'm gonna give a final thought to who I want to lynch today I guess. Worst case scenario, no lynch happens, but that's not

necessarily

a bad thing at this point actually.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:22 am

Also we should have mass-claimed early in this day phase but I was pre-occupied with things and didn't really think about it. Eh.

This is going to be a game I quickly try to forget regardless of the outcome.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:16 am

In post 2121, Ankamius wrote:
Ankamius

notscience

4nxi3ty

ZZZX

SXTLHGaiden
Mikazuki
Titus
ZeL1nK2

Why is ZZZX green?

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:18 am

In post 2124, Titus wrote:I will try to be on later today. Busy work schedule.

Ank, stop fitting things to theories. Fit theories to things. I would love to scumread you Atm. That's not where the facts are. Your entire analysis presupposes I am scum.

Why are you voting 4nxi3ty?

Who do you think is scum?

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:24 am

Whatever. The general opinion seems to be headed towards a Titus lynch today and I doubt any other lynch is going to happen so it's pretty much either that or no lynch. Or possibly ZZZX but there are enough people not wanting that that it seems kind of pointless to try at the moment.

I don't really think WP looked scummy via play. I don't have high hopes of a Titus lynch resulting in a scum flip. But I would probably vote it just to achieve a lynch, maybe.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:27 am

Though, functionally, no lynch (where Titus uses the "vig" shot on ZZZX) and lynching Titus achieve the same thing - the only difference is whether or not one of them is scum.

I can somewhat sympathise with 4nxi3ty's desire to just see the Titus flip to know what it is, though.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:43 am

Vote: ZZZX

Just going to drop this now.

I don't think ZZZX is town, really. I don't remember the last time he gave reads and I don't even remember liking them when he gave them.

I'll be around to switch as necessary, I guess.

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:03 pm

Well this day has been disappointing overall so that would be a fitting end for it

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:35 pm

Well it's prob gonna be no lynch.

Also if ZZZX is lynched and Titus "vig" shoots anyone, I will autolynch her tomorrow

Don't use your ability tonight, Titus

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:36 pm

So good of you to show up, notscience

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:37 pm

I can switch to Titus but I'd need to know right now

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:52 pm

I can vote either just say now

ZeL1nK2 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:58 pm

vote:titus

meh

ZeL1nK2 · Sat May 09, 2015 12:14 am

It had nothing to do with that. It was something else entirely.

ZeL1nK2 · Sat May 09, 2015 12:21 am

It's not important since it was wrong.