We The Purple II Game Over

[singersigner]

vote: Sonic Boom

<3

[singersigner]

hydrate: singer

Titus you'd better not be scum this time. I don't think I have it in me to figure you out again. -_-

[singersigner]

I like Ricastle as town but not sure I want to hydrate him.

After all, what stops scum from just shooting whoever we hydrate?

I get why you vote a policy in RVS and this much resistance is astounding, even for those who disagree with the policy.

~Titus

So what's your criteria on hydrating people if not those you think are town? I think the possibility that they have to play WIFOM with whether or not the other scum faction could also be targeting the hydrated player means that player might not necessarily die that night. If scum get it, there's theoretically no way for the other team/scum to know that the hydrated player isn't town.

Preview Edit:
@Oversoul...I've historically been terrible at mafia. You should also tell me what you think after you read the above post.

[singersigner]

hydrate Rune

I don't like the way sonic is playing but the case against is pretty weak too. Not in favour of any policy lynches this game. Twie seems alright to me so far.

Fos homunculus

Scum

[singersigner]

@TWIE, Read my posts. I didn't agree or disagree with the policy. I can see why he feels that way. Letting him push gets reads on people.

@Singer, my response is in the post. Obvtown die if they get hydrated. So a null read who plays smart as town and has a chance to not die if obvtown is a good start. Given Signs and Void, you fit the profile.

I didn't accept that as an answer then and I don't now. What about the fact that it's multiball? Will scum risk losing an extra shot if the hydrated person is town? Null reads can easily be one or the other, so how are you weighing the risk of a PR being given to someone who could misuse it as scum versus given to town who may or may not die?

[singersigner]

@Oversoul...why did you lean town on me in 247 based off of only two posts?

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: Espsyoncheage

[singersigner]

@mod...do the scum factions have a copy of a sample town role PM and/or fakeclaims made available to them?

(<---is that even a question I can ask? lol)

not answering!

[singersigner]

Everyone who has posted since 287 better have a good fucking reason why they are not flavourclaiming

I mean, I guess I don't have a problem with this in theory, since we know we're all VTs, but

does our flavor affect the role we get when we're hydrated or is that predetermined?

What's the point in flavorclaiming or fearmongering people into doing it?

@mod...does our flavor affect the role we get when we're hydrated or is that predetermined?

In the first game, everyone started off as a player who hydra'd with me, and upon receiving fruit, role-name had changed to the hydra in question.

For example, Cabd (who was scum there) had started out as TheActingMethod and, Upon receiving fruit, Had gotten a new role PM with the role name of Amethyst Actor along with the ability to restrict people to communicate in thread only by quoting others

[singersigner]

410 is a thing but every other post by Cheet/HH is better.

@Titus/Sonic...I said I wasn't getting lynched in Signs and Void several times. What makes it likely that Rune is doing it as scum here?
@Metal/Sonic...I have literally never seen you make a post like 490 but it warms my jiblets so I guess it's not that weird?

@Axe...where the fuck do I get a top town read from you in 470?

@Rune...in 476...I'm curious as to how you determine weak town from strong town in a game like this where we have to actually come to some sort of consensus. If someone's widely regarded as town, but historically not accurate or "good" when it comes to scumhunting, is it better to hydrate someone who's not as town? Perhaps scum don't actually want to be hydrated because they don't want to risk dying at the hand of the other scum faction.

@p2...498...wat...

unvote
vote: Oversoul

[singersigner]

^ To add on that, I really like how your question is worded to me.

Not that I like questioning town reads on me, but I guess I can't really argue with gut. It just seemed really shallow considering I was out of the discussion for several pages. I questioned Oversoul's read on me for the same reason, since at that point I had made like two posts, neither of which were spectacularly alignment indicative.

One more question, though...putting me at the top of your reads list for town...what exactly were you hoping to accomplish? Like, I know you wanted to see my reaction, but I've never seen someone reaction-test like that before. Can you walk me through what you would've expected from scum? Or if you had a particular reaction you were expecting from town other than the one I gave? What confirmed it? (I'm looking for transparency here because I'm really just not following your logic)

@Titus/Sonic...where do you think my arrogance stemmed from in that game? I don't think arrogance is a scumtell...quite the opposite actually. I see a statement like that coming more from someone who feels strongly that their alignment will be their defense, not from someone who can't afford to be lynched, i.e. scum.

[singersigner]

Titus I already caught scum. Anyone isoing axe should see this.

Axe I'm sorry you rolled scum on this one.

Why don't you make it easier on those of us who don't feel like reading with bias and just point out what's scummy yourself?

[singersigner]

That it's scum relation. In an all-vanilla D1 what other answer pertaining to relation is there?

I don't think it's that easy?

Rune: Scumreads Axe + HH
Axe: Scumreads Rune + HH
HH: Scumreads Axe but not Rune

It's a very peculiar triangle. Who's scum and who's town? Why? Why would they act in such a manner?

Do you think that they are all scumbuddies? That wouldn't make any sense, would it?

These are all questions that you must ask yourself before answering my main question. It's not that simple. I don't think.

I think it's a case of two people being really stubborn about how well they know the other person, and one other person caught in the mix. I don't think it's that unusual to have a trifecta of scumreads like this, and the fact that you're making it seem like more than that without commenting on it yourself is ~smeh~.

What

are

your thoughts on this?

[singersigner]

ZZZX, TWIE, and randomidget need to post more.

[singersigner]

One thing I do agree with you on is that most people shouldn't have a read at all on my slot yet unless it's by gut I guess. There are very few people here who can read me well enough/know my tone enough to be able to determine I'm town right now. I mean this is a way I've only ever began a game as town, but most people wouldn't know that. But we'll turn on the green high beams soon enough, so!

Isn't Tammy supposed to be well-known for "obvtowning" herself? Wouldn't that be advantageous for your hydra to let her take the reigns and let the people who can read her well, read her?

Also, saying "this is a way I've only ever begun a game as town" immediately negates the fact that we should be town-reading you for it since your awareness of it itself means you can manipulate it as scum.

Preview Edit:
HH is town. (<3 Cheetory)
Rune was pretty damn scummy earlier! But I've not had the heebee jeebees about his posting lately.
I've been trying to feel Axe out since his town read of me was fairly unjustified, and I'm still not sure I accept the way he went about trying to justify it, and it all kind of looks like he was trying to butter me up and then poorly explain why later...

[singersigner]

I like Oversoul, Axe, p2, and Cait Sith for scum right now.

I've only every played one multiball with two scum teams years ago so it's kind of hard for me to get a read on certain people (like Sonic and Rune).

Preview Edit:

Sonic, not everyone follows my theory that scum try to mislynch town day 1 in multiball. Some scum just go gee thankful it's not us. I'm not concerned as much with X scumreads Y therefore they cannot be scum in multiball.

We still need to talk about HH. Not townreading that.

This shit. Ffs. This is the shit I despise about hydras. How about sorting your reads behind the scenes and coming back when you know who you want to wagon and why. Don't go bringing in your dissonance baggage into the thread where you can hide behind "well one head thought they were scum so of course we're scumhunting!"

[singersigner]

@Wisdom: The only people to be affected by a flavour massclaim are scum, whose flavour I'd assume is different from town's. That's why.

And what? Scum don't have fakeclaims? Mara isn't stupid, she's not going to make a game breakable by flavor.

~Wis

That's the thing! Why does flavor matter?? From what I can tell, it's just generic "hey I hydra'd with this person and they're pretty cool I guess."

This is why I had an issue with Ricastle trying to bully people into flavor claiming. I don't even see how it's hydration-related, either, but in case it is, I'd rather not let scum more familiar with the flavor go off speculating.

[singersigner]

Mmmk.

unhydrate
hydrate: Rune

[singersigner]

In the OP.

@...Tammy...? Ok, fair enough. All I hear is how you're obvtown when you're town and I've seen how you can get put out when people don't see it, so seeing a very blatant comment suggesting that people can't read you very well was awkward and felt like the opposite of what I've seen from your play previously (which evidently made me think it was Mala posting, to be honest).

And my meta point is pretty solid for anyone who plays mafia enough as either alignment, and especially for any sort of competent scum (which again, I thought it was mala posting, and I've heard she likes scum, so). It's the consistency that's hard to manage, which would've been brought about after posting for a while, which again, you're talking about the way you start a game, which is easily replicated. It's weird that you say most people don't know how you start games, though. I thought people were pretty familiar with your play?

[singersigner]

I just hate scum <:

Singer, I would state that whoever told you Mala likes scum is wrong or lying. She has lurked twice when I have been her buddy.

Oh. I guess I misunderstood someone on my team talking about it because they were under the impression she put in scum tokens for the TM game. Ugh, then all of that was moot and I'll just resign that slot to null for now.

[singersigner]

None of those posts said scummy or anti town

So why were you trolling at the start and why are you ignoring/denying the fact that you were when Ricastle is calling you out on it now?

Now you're wordsmithing knowing full well that when you admit you had a less-than-stellar beginning of the game, and someone called you out on it, it sounds like you're admitting to being scummy on purpose. Or do you deny that that's what it looked like?

[singersigner]

unhydrate

None of those posts said scummy or anti town

By the way, "intentionally poor play" IS anti-town. Your move.

[singersigner]

Agree to disagree

Disagree on what? I asked you questions.

[singersigner]

I was trolling and being dumb. That's not anti town at such an early phase nor is it scummy. You're being silly.

How do you feel about TWIE?

Concerning HH, I like cheetory, dislike cephrir (by that I mean cheetory seems more town ~

but he's probably just better scum

)... I don't know either player well enough to fully understand who is better though, could be just this game.

How do you come to the conclusion of the bolded? You said a whole lot of words that didn't actually take a stance on anything.

Preview Edit:
Are you talking about this?

YUSSSS.

Singer you were right I did make the comment that lately my shift for wanting to roll scum is a bit higher. It's also a proved fact that I love scum in Multiball.

~M

Because I forgot I saw that and now I don't think I'm super crazy! So...I guess it validates my point if you were actually the one posting when I thought you were, but apparently you weren't, so...yeah... >_>

[singersigner]

I...what? What was that interaction all about? Mala, did I acknowledge what you wanted me to...?

[singersigner]

For the record, it's blatantly apparent TWIE is playing similar to how he played in survivor, which not only says he's scum but also that he has a team full of people he expects won't be able to last long, and has given up before the game has even gotten started. that being said,

I'm not really jonesing to lynch lurker pondscum on day 1.

I'd rather lynch spammy scum that fill the thread with bullshit (Hint: If you two say one more time you weren't giving excuses I will go in your iso and quote every single excuse).

I don't like twie play at all.

Not a lynch candidate for today imo

but he is a second tier scum read right now.

HOW DOES THIS EVEN MAKE SENSE.

If you find scum, you find scum. You don't let them rally overnight with the rest of their team. Geezus fuck, guys. How do you reconcile that kind of scum hunting when you can't even use associative tells until a flip??

[singersigner]

I found scum and it is axe. Ive made this very clear. Where did I say twie was scum even? I explicitly said in that quote he is a second tier read for me. Your post is garbage.

What's terrible is that you've been particularly vague and word-smithy every time someone interprets something even remotely off from what you're claiming to have intended. You refuse to even acknowledge that it's happening, ignoring my questions, being purposefully antagonistic and stubborn with regards to Axe. If you want to lynch scum reads, then participate in the game and stop whining that people don't agree with you yet. TRUST ME. I had to vig my scumreads in the last game I played because I was being a whiney twat to the extent that people thought I was fixating too much on something I couldn't convince them was true (though part of that was because I didn't necessarily need to play in a way to get them lynched since I could vig them anyway...but still). If you want to convince us you're right, let us come to that conclusion organically instead of trying to force-feed us "oh you're terrible if you don't see it." In fact, I've already stated Axe is a scumread for me, I just need to parse out other reads who haven't been active.

[singersigner]

Like, I've interpreted your later posts with regards to Axe as genuinely believing you've caught scum, but if you're going to continue tunneling and whining about it, I'm

will

interpret that as scum who is parking an easy vote as an excuse not to participate in other reads, and I will not bat an eye-lash if you get yourself lynched for it.

[singersigner]

What exactly did you mean by "second-tier" what you said you hated the way he's playing?

[singersigner]

HOW DOES THIS EVEN MAKE SENSE.

If you find scum, you find scum. You don't let them rally overnight with the rest of their team. Geezus fuck, guys. How do you reconcile that kind of scum hunting when you can't even use associative tells until a flip??

Because I'm trying to view this as "Which of my scumreads poses a bigger threat the longer they are left alive" and the answer is Sonic. A lurkerscum doesn't bug me because we can always lynch them tomorrow, but if someone is a spamming scumfuck that can and will flood the thread and induce apathy, I'd much rather lynch them.

That didn't make a difference in Signs and Void.

That sounds more like something scum would be more threatened by than town.

[singersigner]

I can't find it...where did Metal Sonic do a VCA again?

[singersigner]

Oh derp. I just saw an "M" name and was thinking the MS part of their hydra, heh.

Anyway, yeah, I glossed over that post apparently because I don't remember reading it. What's SO COOL is that the VCA part of justifying his vote includes calling 4 of the 5 people on the wagon potential scum. >_>

[singersigner]

Ugh. Wake up. 8 pages. 8 hours of work. Probably more. See you guys on the flip side. -_-

[singersigner]

Are prods on 48 hour timers or something?, jesus. I was sort of busy over the weekend, but I will (pretend to) catch up shortly.

You know what's crazy about hydras?? That they can both post!

But what would be the worst thing ever is for this game to crack 100 pages on D1.

And you know what would prevent the game from getting that big?? People posting their reads and voting!

[singersigner]

@Singer: Well not to complain, but I'm basically playing this as a solo slot right now.

I am voting and I have posted reads? I mean seriously, what though? Are you trying to stipulate that I am lurking because I didn't post over the weekend?

Breaking down my snarky comment to "stipulating [you] are lurking" is shallow at best. I was postulating that you don't really have a reason to complain (in your first post, not this one), and that your complaining seems like filler, followed by an easy fluff read of "Axe is scum but because gut so don't ask me to explain it."

[singersigner]

Right about what? I didn't say it was because he was lurking? I implied that instead of complaining, he could be more active, and if he's playing the game by himself right now, he should either figure out his hydra partner, or go on a public V/LA to avoid being prodded and complaining about it in thread.

[singersigner]

I'm at the point where I will literally lynch anyone. zzzzzzzzz. Prime lynch candidates would be AngryBRO, Oversoul, randomidget, ZZZX, Cait Sith, or Axe.

But really, I'm not catching up on this game tonight.

[singersigner]

I am pushing TWIE as a scum lynch.

Oh really? Why is TWIE scum again?

~Wis

Why

isn't

he scum?

[singersigner]

Man...I never purposefully V/LA to lurkadurk out games, but seeing as I don't have a day off until Friday, I'm going to go V/LA since I clearly won't be able to catch/keep up until then. I'll have six days off to catch up so we can talk then. Oof da.

@mod...V/LA until 6/19

Preview Edit:
@Cheet...we'll talk soon. ily.

[singersigner]

Wis how likely do you think it is that scum would trade themselves for an unknown PR for a teammate on day 1?

how does this happen?

~Wis

Scum gets hydrated and gives teammate a pr.

Scum gets crosskilled.

This is a really weird hypothetical question not knowing how the numbers lay...why ask Wisdom? (I might've missed the context in my perusing) Also, what's the interest at this point with no flips or any real wagons at this point?

[singersigner]

...are you a real person?

[singersigner]

Ok but really, it's a real question.

Wis how likely do you think it is that scum would trade themselves for an unknown PR for a teammate on day 1?

how does this happen?

~Wis

Scum gets hydrated and gives teammate a pr.

Scum gets crosskilled.

This is a really weird hypothetical question not knowing how the numbers lay...why ask Wisdom? (I might've missed the context in my perusing) Also, what's the interest at this point with no flips or any real wagons at this point?

[singersigner]

I know I'm biased, but the point was to theoretically introduce information for the rest of the town, something scum wouldn't necessarily want to do. As I'm apparently a likely nightkill target, it wouldn't be advantageous for me to put an even larger target on my back by trying to "obvtown" myself when I can apparently do a pretty good job of that on my own.

I agree that it's weird for AngryBRO to think that was a towntell for them, though, since I didn't even get what they were asking for.

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: randomidget

[singersigner]

Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.

Stop posting so much and vote for literally anyone, yay lynched!

[singersigner]

Okay so then it probably is 3:3:11 unless there's an unbalanced team.

And in that case the scum would definitely have to have fake claims because anyone who played the first game or paid attention at all would know that a hydra would turn into a tridra and that would be confirmed scum. So, probably not the other team has fake claims, but the tridra team would.

I didn't play in the first game so could you explain this to me?

[singersigner]

You gripe about Singer not discussing things while VLA.

Also that was not my problem with singer. My problem was her useless questions.

~Wis

I remember the last time someone told me my questions weren't productive or the "right" kind. Should I start taking that as a scum tell?

[singersigner]

no you should start explaining what the fuck was the point of asking questions with obvious answers and then not following up on them.

~Wis

I've been skimming the fuck out of this game. I haven't even pretended to not be doing that since I went on a V/LA for this game only (which you might've seen if you were actually reading and not accusing me of "pretending to be active" when that would be what you're doing if you missed the V/LA that's been public in every votecount since I posted it publicly in the thread).

Like, I'm literally riding it out until I can actually dedicate the time to catching up more thoroughly (which will be this weekend since I'm not working). You seem to be offended by that somehow?

[singersigner]

Smh.

[singersigner]

Hey I know I said I'd be back by now but I went out with my old coworkers tonight and had SO MUCH WINE so I will be getting to this officially tomorrow (aren't you excited??).

I actually think it'll be like replacing into a game and catching up, which is where I think I've been at my best lately, so I'll be more in my comfort zone. I won't even let my parents visiting for the first time in almost two years get in the way!

[singersigner]

Bert, I'll tell you flat out that those two have been tunneling on us for most of the game. I'll admit I'm the same way, but pretty much everyone else who knows me (Wis, Malatammy, AFB) were townreading me so!

That being said, I really want mala to catch up but at the same time its probably not likely any time soon

I remember a game where everyone who had familiarity with Titus was town reading her. I don't like that you keep trying to appeal to their ability to read you, especially with multiball where they'd have no incentive to paint you as scum right now, if they were scum. Do you have town reads on everyone town reading you, then?

[singersigner]

How many games have you played with scum-singer?

~Wis

I only have two scum games in the last three years and one of them was a newbie game, one of them I had to be force replaced (THANKS METAL SONIC AND QUADZ).

[singersigner]

Unsurprisingly enough I've

actually

been able to keep up with the last couple of pages, but my bigger catchup hasn't even started because I underestimated the amount of time I'd be spending with my family this weekend. Sorry, not sorry.

Anyway, ZZZX, I had virtually no scum reads on me by the time I replaced out of that game, much like here, so what's different?

[singersigner]

Meaning, he has a single game with scum-you?

~Wis

If it makes you feel any better, I practically only have one game with scum me.

I think I have four total on this site, with two third parties. Woop, woop.

[singersigner]

1. That's why I asked him what the difference is (oh, was that a pointless question that I can't draw analysis from either??).
2. He has more experience with town-singer. Are you saying that shouldn't be taken into account?
3. You can draw logical conclusions based off of very recent play that would be difficult to manipulate. I'd like to think he's looking at the difference from a town perspective (hence the aforementioned question).

You have no reason to believe him, but you'd also be wrong, so. I can't really help you.

Though! Apparently it's pointless to argue with you, so I won't bother. I'll just let you be wrong.

[singersigner]

You don't think I look like town me? I don't even know how that's possible...

Anyway, it would've been SO AWESOME if you could've let him answer my question before telling him he was bullshitting.

[singersigner]

then you could have let him answer to my question instead of answering it yourself?

~Wis

Are you seriously suggesting that answering a black as white logistics question that anyone could've answered objectively is the same as intervening with a subjective answer/interpretation?

[singersigner]

no but if you choose to get in the way of my questioning zzzx dont whine about me not letting him answer

meanwhile, i asked you things and you're ignoring me again

~Wis

So...you ARE suggesting that the situations are the same, since you're suggesting that you will react the same, right?

Also, I'm starting from the beginning so if you want an answer soon, can you quote your questions for me again?

[singersigner]

[singersigner]

Lol@pressure

[singersigner]

THREATS!

[singersigner]

hydrate: singer

[singersigner]

Eh.

unhydrate
hydrate: Seiko

unvote
vote: TheWayItEnds

[singersigner]

Just to clarify your postion singer.

Im scum, but youd like to hydrate the person im choosing to hydrate over yourself?

You...make that sound like you genuinely think it's scummy...?

[singersigner]

Why?

[singersigner]

uh, cause you think im scum?

and therefore if I think its important to place the first hydrate vote ive made this game to keep it off of you, its probably for a reason?

and if you know that you're town then keeping the vote on yourself and not just swapping to the vote that your scum read just made would make sense?

Like.... what?

Apparently, I'm a high priority night kill. I don't need to hydrate myself. In fact, I wasn't for a large majority of the game while I held the majority of votes yet now you think it's weird?

I wouldn't be surprised if I got the shared power, to be honest. I don't need to be the one making that choice.

Do you think everyone voting you genuinely thinks you're scum, or toxic?

[singersigner]

Maybe if I thought he was scum.

Preview Edit:
Lol.

[singersigner]

i have a good feeling that singer is just joking around


i gave that guy so many chances its not even funny

Wait, actually, what makes you think I was/am joking?

[singersigner]

singer just doesn't want to be hydrated because she is scum and getting hydrated means she dies. This is why she wasn't hydrating herself despite being one of the top hydration wagons. And this is also why she so easily hydrated Seiko and got that out of the way now.

Lol, I would literally hydrate and vote almost anyone at this point.

[singersigner]

unhydrate
hydrate: singer

[singersigner]

HOW U DO PLAY TEH MULTIBALLS.

[singersigner]

oi singer, since you say you'll vote anyone, vote Ricastle

I dunno...I don't really like you...I kind of just want to not just to spite you!

(but really I haven't seen him post recently so maybe reminding me of his latest vote-worthy posting might help convince me you're worth listening to since I haven't seen anything worthy as of late)

[singersigner]

Trolling only works on people who aren't receptive to anything you have to say. I started trolling Titus in S&V because I knew she was gunna be dead regardless, so I didn't need to get a lynch on her, just get up in her face and distract her into making bad choices.

Granted, that's a PR kind of troll. I also didn't want to be night killed but I would gladly accept it in this game. There's maybe a total of one person I actually care about playing with anymore and I regret trying to get him to play. Granted, I didn't realize how terrible Wisdom was, lol. Think of me emulating UT this game, give no fucks!

I'm up to page ten, though!

[singersigner]

And, to be honest, had I realized this was multiball, I probably wouldn't have joined. I really just wanted to earn my paragon nom.

(this game just exploded and I don't have a team helping me catch up this time)

[singersigner]

Did you really interpret all of that as me giving no fucks?

[singersigner]

Oh, that was in reference to how terrible you are, not this game.

[singersigner]

PAGES 1-10.

48 from TWIE is weird because it doesn’t explain HOW he’s lying...just seems like he’s taking a potshot to discredit Sonic, the next several posts, etc, etc. Consider me officially on board with policy lynching him in any other game I ever happen to be in with him.
55: why did you like Ricastle as town based off of his one post?
86 and 87 from Sonic suck monkey balls for creating hydra dissonance publicly in thread. There’s no reason to respond to your partner in thread when you can easily talk on chat or PM or whatever (yes I already mentioned this but it seemed particularly relevant to say again).
123 from HH is a pity party post with literally no notion of who is or isn’t actually responding, especially since they haven’t actually been engaging anyone in particular, just kind of filling in random theory. I initially read it as frustrated town wanting more town reads, but then he doesn’t make any move toward calling out the people giving reads that didn’t have one on him.
131 from Seiko...I don’t think anyone followed up on why Titus’ entrance was terrible?
133 from Oversoul is just an opportunistic scum trying to get away with a policy lynch after recently avoiding TWIE’s policy lynch. Very bad.
138 is a very leading question from Seiko...”what do you think HH has done this game that is unlikely to come from scum” is a pretty big burden of proof to say that nothing they’ve done could ever be faked in the history of ever.
BY POST

159, 165,

184 OVERSOUL IS STILL JUST TALKING THEORY AND SHIT OUT OF HIS ASS.
173...damn...in hindsight, I have no idea why Axe would think it’s clear that Oversoul should be hydrated...I wouldn’t be surprised if this turned out to be scumbuddies. >_>
185 from AFB brings up a point and a general sentiment I’ve noticed now in late game...GiF wasn’t being townread, and all of a sudden Wisdom starts taking over and spamming/trying to control the game...why is that?
225...@Bacon...what do you mean pie hasn’t been his obvtown self, yet? What would you have expected from a multiball game?
240...@HH...could you elaborate on the “night and day” of AFB’s scum/town game here?

[singersigner]

Night ended an irl day early...I only had 20 more pages to go...

[singersigner]

Incoming.

[singersigner]

PAGES 1-10
48 by TWIE is weird because it doesn’t explain HOW he’s lying...just seems like he’s taking a potshot to discredit Sonic, the next several posts, etc, etc. Consider me officially on board with policy lynching him in any other game I ever happen to be in with him.
55: why did you like Ricastle as town based off of his one post?
86 and 87 suck monkey balls for creating hydra dissonance publicly in thread. There’s no reason to respond to your partner in thread when you can easily talk on chat or PM or whatever (yes I already mentioned this but it seemed particularly relevant to say again).
123 is a pity party post with literally no notion of who is or isn’t actually responding, especially since they haven’t actually been engaging anyone in particular, just kind of filling in random theory. I initially read it as frustrated town wanting more town reads, but then he doesn’t make any move toward calling out the people giving reads that didn’t have one on him.
131 from Seiko...I don’t think anyone followed up on why Titus’ entrance was terrible?
133 from Oversoul is just an opportunistic scum trying to get away with a policy lynch after recently avoiding TWIE’s policy lynch. Very bad.
138 is a very leading question from Seiko...”what do you think HH has done this game that is unlikely to come from scum” is a pretty big burden of proof to say that nothing they’ve done could ever be faked in the history of ever.
BY POST

159, 165,

184 OVERSOUL IS STILL JUST TALKING THEORY AND SHIT OUT OF HIS ASS.
173...damn...in hindsight, I have no idea why Axe would think it’s clear that Oversoul should be hydrated...I wouldn’t be surprised if this turned out to be scumbuddies. >_>
185...AFB brings up a point and a general sentiment I’ve noticed now in late game...GiF wasn’t being townread, and all of a sudden Wisdom starts taking over and spamming/trying to control the game...why is that?
225...@Bacon...what do you mean pie hasn’t been his obvtown self, yet? What would you have expected from a multiball game?
240...@HH...could you elaborate on the “night and day” of AFB’s scum/town game here?

Preview Edit:
@Sonic...are you dumb? Town hate no kills because they're left with literally the same information they had going into night, which is considerably less than scum!

[singersigner]

PAGES 11-20
283 from Oversoul means he’s still scum. >_>
287 from Ricastle pinged me then and pings me now. Seems like he’s trying to get on top of the game by preemptively giving himself cred.
291 from Espyoncheange...WHOLEY SHIT HOW DID I MISS THIS. Really good catch from him about randomidget’s vote/hydrate of Sonic. Weird dynamic here...

could be scumbuddies...?

-Titus hasn’t tried forming a townblock so I think that’s in her favor as town, lol.
295 from Axe is completely arbitrary since with multiball you have no idea if someone could be on the other scum team...
Page 13 reaffirms my initial Axe read and new Ricastle read.
344 and 351[/post from Axe is yet another baseless/unexplained townread (the first from Cait Sith) on me.
[post]410 from HH/Cheetory...I don’t think I read it that well the first time. He’s always saying the things I want to say (like in S&V).

Metal’s response in 411 is sad because is that really all he has to respond in a post 50% dedicated to the things his hydra’s saying??

Which Cheet then noticed in 413
421 from Titus/Sonic is alkdjfsbahlisjghasidgj because that’s the SAME SHIT that made me scum read her in the first place in S&V. Her superiority complex is UNREAL.
422 from Matal/Sonic is akjlsdfhbpiajsdgh because he’s so caught up in his tunnel that he hasn’t tried to engage with people to get those other reads. Though I can concede to being better at townhunting than scumhunting, as is my usual prerogative.
429 from Metal/Sonic...you say you have a hydra PT to hide reads in when Titus made a public post asking for a PT to be made, and you’ve previously referenced being able to discuss things in real time about your reads with regards to certain players...it sounds like you’re being very specific about what you’re public about and what you’re not to fit your objective.
445 from Seiko is weird because it is basically the severalth post saying the same thing about how Sonic Boom isn’t advancing the game state, in an unconvincing way, replicating the whole TWIE/Sonic Boom thing in the first place.
460 from Cheetory...MY SPIRIT ANIMAL.
469 from Seiko...did you follow Signs and Void much? If yes, how might you compare Titus play from here to there? From what I’ve seen of Titus, her town play might be closer to the chest (and I only say that having familiarity with her scum play trying to resemble her town play). She’s willing to give those town reads freely as scum in order to create favor within what she needs to be a town block. What are the differences you see? Does multiball factor into that?
481 from Cheetory...OH GAWD MORE SPIRIT ANIMAL.
492 from Sonic Boom...ok, I remember pointing out that the sheer amount of effort from this is probably town, but I feel obligated to point out now that it’s the kind of stuff that’s easily fakeable. What’s NOT as fakeable is the commentary on it, which surprisingly enough, doesn’t have as much IoA as I would’ve thought upon a second read.

[singersigner]

PAGES 21-30
Random thought here, but I’m thinking that Titus not being 100% clear on the setup with regards to multiball/hydration might not be the scumtell I would’ve thought, since she’d be damned sure to do her homework as scum.
547 from Seiko is unnecessarily tossing a discredit toward a townread on HH/Cheetory.
552 from Titus/Sonic is WHOLEY GEEZUS. This response to Cheetory about why you overlooked his obliviousness is like...how do you ignore things like that for towncred as scum? How do you overlook careless errors as scum and ever push mislynches? This looks like justifying something Cheetory caught on to... 
583 from randomidget...how can they look town if they haven’t posted enough? What would not contributing as much have anything to do with the mechanic? Alternatively, what makes a replacements inherently look town? This seems like a copout on taking a stance on who you want hydrated.
586 from Bacon is a whole bunch of reads that don’t have any definitive substance to them. They can be easily faked and mostly IoA (particularly his reads on Seiko, Sonic, random, ricastle, me, HH, TWIE, Rune, Espy, Oversoul, and p2...yeah ok almost all of them). I’m interested in seeing how his read on me evolved... [edit] 1477 [double edit] 1783
590 from Ceph is a good point about Titus sucking up to me, but so has Metal Sonic...I’m just not really sure she’d be that stupid? It’s all WIFOM, but it’s something I’m certainly paranoid about.
626 from Rune...”if I die and flip town”...oh man, this might just be wishful thinking of a scumslip, but shouldn’t you still be talking in absolutes like your first post? This sounds like you’re trying to gauge how fucked you are if you’re wrong about Axe...
634 from Espyoncheage...ok I kind of like how he dissects Bacon’s reads list, especially after I put them on my “to watch” list.

For all their talk about advancing the gamestate, Seiko has made very little effort to do so themselves. Most of their time has been spent arguing with Sonic about holding up the game which in turn was...holding up the game...subsequently, the only scumhunting they've actually done so far is a weak and forgettable push on Oversoul. They also quickly abandoned the conversation with me about the game in general. This all leads me to believe that their crowing about the gamestate is just a ploy to look useful. I also hated their responses to Sonic's initial push on them, looking back. It reads very much like "these are the wrong reasons to catch me".

I highlighted this in our hydra PT, so I'm just gonna put it here too, because I like this a lot.

Agreed.
656 by Titus/Sonic...662. >_>
664 by Wisom is lolexcuses.
743 by Seiko is the second time they called the wagon stupid without saying why or what they make of it...are the people on it stupid? Are their reasons for being on you stupid? Is it scum-motivated? Stupid-town motivated? What?

[singersigner]

PAGE 31-40
769 by Seiko...someone once told me that my scum game is much calmer under pressure, and my town game is snarky and lashes out when under pressure...I’m starting to see what that looks like.
787 and 797 from Titus/Sonic...what made you decide I was “obvtown” between these posts?
806 from Seiko...how did you go from 803 to this? That whole exchange between you and Bacon is very weird.
810 from Seiko PINGS ALL OF THE RADARS.
Ugh, ok, so pages 34-37 are terrible to read and full of people who are just baiting the other...
I can’t tell if p2 is using his methodology of scumhunting as a ruse or legitimate thing...


PAGES 41-60
1038 from Sonic is something I want to keep track of because in their followup, it looks like a cover-up for mistaking the fact that there are two scum teams and they know the one so they’re only looking for the other... (follow-up was 1108)
1069 from Mario pings me because it’s like an excuse to be bad/not contributing anything meaningful until the playerlist gets smaller...a preemptive excuse to still be alive by then, if you will.
1146 from Bacon...of course replacing is null for the most part, but you can still comment on the slot...do you think those who have replaced but not become integrated with the game yet are still town?
1148 from Seiko...HOW WAS JESSICA’S REPLACE OUT TOWN WITH NO POSTS. Like...I can see why you can’t argue that it was scum, but how the FUCK do you argue that it’s specifically town?
1279 from Bacon...how did you feel about Rune’s posting around my 726?
1296 from Bacon...you previously mentioned how there was a difference between scum scumhunting and town scumhunting, and since you and Sonic are having this debate about “advancing the gamestate” where do you specifically see that coming from a town-Seiko mindset as opposed to a scum-Seiko mindset?
1320 from Bacon...ok but what makes that more likely to come from a town-TWIE than a scum-TWIE? It sounds like he’s just trolly either way so it basically sounds like it boils down to a “gut” read that you’re trying to justify with words.
1321 from Generic is unnecessarily antagonistic...do you always play like this, or just when you’re scumread?
1369 from Sonic...so do you think my V/LA specific to this game was anti-town?
1383 from AFB...what is that even supposed to mean? What’s the difference between what your gut is telling you and what your head is telling you and what’s the purpose of being really vague about it right now?
1399 from Cheetory/HH...lol.
1407 from Generic...what in the literal fuck is this deal about...
1433 from AFB is reasonable and doesn’t really look like defending a buddy, but admitting to lynching a town read in 1439 seems pretty dumb?
1488 from Bacon IS LITERALLY THE THING HE IS ACCUSING RICASTLE OF WTF.

[singersigner]

PAGES 61-70
1520 from TWIE expresses the same sentiments I explained to Titus at the beginning of the game about it not mattering that the hydrate go to someone highly regarded as town which is A++ for town mindset.
1524 from Bacon...did you see anyone doing this? What makes you think that?
1550 from Bacon...here you say that Ricastle seems way more capable and skilled than random...yet you think he’s so easily caught as scum because of the masterful scumhunter that you are? Why are you justifying random not lasting long as a reason to let him slide for today?
1573 from Sonic...but why did you have to ask in the thread? Why not just PM the mod, or continue talking via other mediums. It seemed theatrical and calculated.
1576 from randomiget...ugh, I see this crap from scum all the time. -_-
1578 from Bacon...if you had read the thread you’d realize why I was only skimming at that point. Now reading everything in context, I did see your answer, but I didn’t know why he was appealing to you in particular, and I still don’t. I asked about TWIE because he had been trolling up until the point you gave a read on him and had been up for discussion of a policy lynch because “might hit scum!” and then you come in with a fairly unsubstantiated town read on him.
1617 from Cheetory/HH...MAOR SPIRIT ANIMAAAAALS.
1620 from AFB...why WOULD you assume mafia have day talk...?
1673 from TWIE is one of the few insightful and not trolly things I’ve seen from him this game, which is a nice breath of fresh air because I agree!
1691 LOL
1730 from randomiget actually looks like scum getting frustrated they got caught for the “wrong” reasons and trying to justify it with “well town do this, too” which if town, should’ve looked more like “obviously it’s not alignment related” or something.
1748 from Cait Sith is finally the kind of thing I’d been missing from them...the reads stuff didn’t present anything too enlightening, but the research into the hydras to try and actually figure out the logistics seemed town-motivated. If they were scum, I don’t think they’d pull off a stunt like this to try and out the real size of the teams. I still don’t get their town read on me, though, which they have yet to really explain.

[singersigner]

PAGES 71-80
1798 from Bacon...this isn’t the first time you’ve put the burden on someone else to “prove” their read, except this time the reads are reversed. Last time you made someone prove why their read was scum when you disagreed and said they were town, and this time you’re saying someone should prove their read is town when you disagreed and said they were scum (well, not as town, at least). Then you exaggerate how “all I’ve done” is ask pointless questions which prove I haven’t read the game (and then proceed to accuse Sonic of not reading), which if you were reading the game you’d see why I took a an official break while struggling to keep up, had posted plenty before then which in fact gave you a solid town read of me, and based off of ONE QUESTION you use that as an excuse to flip on me?
1812 from Bacon...how does this hypothesis change now that you know I couldn’t possibly be scum with Ricastle, and I have literally no reason as scum of either team to not go for his lynch?
1815 from HH...I feel the same way. 
1825 from p2 ZOOOOOMGZ ILY
1833 from Ricastle...I’m actually directing this at Wisdom because he made a very assuming comment about how I must because scum because I didn’t want to hydrate myself and draw the nightkill from the other team. How did it make you feel when my “scumbuddy” then voted to hydrate me?
1848 from Bacon (why do I keep pinging posts from Bacon...JUST STOP POSTING) is so confident I’m scum but like let’s hypothetical she’s town...that’s so out of character for all of your strong reads this game...why’s that?
What I’m noticing at this point is that Wisdom will consistently redirect things back onto other people. He spams so much to stay on top of the game and push his own agenda, but for all his talk about town following up on their shit, he seems to avoid that responsibility with convincing others of reads they disagree with. The following posts by Sonic call him out on this, as well, which I like.
1880 from Bacon...so hypocrisy isn’t necessarily a scumtell, but here you say that Generic keep his reads close to his chest isn’t scummy, yet you berate others for not explaining their reads when you demand that they do. Why is it not scummy when Generic does it, but scummy when you don’t get what you want when you want it?
1895 from Espsyoncheage...on the one hand I can see this as frustrated town, but on the other hand are you really trying to push a policy lynch at this point in the day?
1947 LOL
1967 from ZZZX...oh yeah...you’re still in this game. -_-

[singersigner]

PAGES 81-90

.........................................................

WOMP WOMP NIGHT ENDED EARLY AND I HAVE TO GO TO WORK NOW GG NO RE.




Other notes:
KEEPING TRACK OF WHO MENTIONS RANDOMIDGET: Bacon in 2192 wrt teams, Bacon in 2055 questioning the vote, HH in 1921 questioning the vote, Bacon in 1806 again questioning my vote, Bacon in 1726 questioning Cait’s vote, Bacon in 1643 questioning the towncase on him, and AFB refuting it in 1647, Bacon in 1550 making a play to lynch ricastle over random, Bacon in 1427 baiting a vote on him or ricastle, MarioManiac in 1420 requesting */opinions...ok this was boring and I'm probably just being biased toward Bacon since he keeps putting two people as his biggest scum reads but only actually pushing one, which pings my scumdar hard as scum buddies. Hng.

Biggest townreads are HH, AFB, Espyacheage, p2
Biggest scumreads right now: Oversoul,

Seiko

(I guess we'll see what their thoughts are on the night...), Axe (slot),

Sonic Boom

, random, and kind of Rune again...

Bacon is the big question mark because if he keeps trying to push me as scum I'm just naturally inclined to think it's scum motivated because he sees a target and wastes everyone's time bitching about it trying to maintain control of the game which is scum's way of manipulating the gamestate, otherwise I'd just sluff it off as negative utility that I wouldn't miss. I'm still processing that one and would like to hear what he has to say about me proving him wrong.

[singersigner]

just wondering how i got on your scumreads

may you please stroke my ego by telling me how i got out of that sad spot

Well...I still really have this paranoia that you guys are buddying up to me. Several times within the first half of my catchup I felt really uneasy, and then towards the 70-80 page range you got into a huge defense of me with Bacon which rubbed me the wrong way again. I wouldn't say you're one of my biggest scum reads, but I can't really call you town, yet, either. I'm thoroughly unsatisfied with how you've explained your townread of me. In fact, Oversoul, Cait Sith, and Axe never really explained their reads to my liking, and I'm paranoid enough to think all of them are scum for it, lol.

@Cheetory...I'm sorry I couldn't really engage with you much. Catching up I didn't really see much I fought you on other than Espy which isn't really something we could engage in at the time anyway. I'll be around tonight if you have any holes to poke in my observations, though. I'd definitely like to hear how you feel their play is scum motivated, though.

I also feel really uneasy about Bert's opening post today which is sad because he replaced in right as I took a break from catching up last night, and my only interactions at the end of the day were me not reading.

[singersigner]

Um...that wasn't at all what I was referring to...are you telling me these things because you think I asked about your vote on Ricastle? Why are you telling me you're a follower and that you're not a driving force behind wagons...

I didn't like your immediate jump into the thread explaining why you saw it open and then speculating but not speculating on what happened over night...just seemed really odd and out of place. Combine that with your really obscure response to me right now...it looks like you're preemptively defending yourself from something you know I'll think is out of place...

[singersigner]

Uh, ok, I guess that makes more sense from a not-responding-to-my-post point of view, but...could you point out exactly what you were responding to with Ceph...because I don't see where he ever addressed you or what you could possible be responding to.

Preview Edit:

Well, it was to everyone, but partially to Ceph's last vote on esp. And partially to lose frustrated about what happened at the end of yesterday. I'm speaking my mind.

I skipped over your walls until I have tabs open on my computer to click on the links

Ok...it still seems really out of place! Can't shake it!

[singersigner]

vote: Oversoul

[singersigner]

Solid catchup singer I like how cohesive the thoughts are concerning me.

I especially like the parts where you say you're onboard with policy lynching me and then go on to do nothing but agree with me.
It also seems fairly likely that youve forgotten that you've actually seen my scumgame before.

1. Eh. It doesn't need to be cohesive. I did all of that over the span of about 11 hours' worth of reading and comprehending (or trying to >_>), and I still have about 20 pages I kind of feel like skipping over...but since it apparently resulted in a flashwagon on town a week before deadline, I'm thinking I shouldn't.
2. I was on board with policy lynching you at the point it was worth policy lynching you. If you really paid attention to my catchup, you'd see my reads change and my opinion of you along with it. You're not screaming town, but I hardly think you're scummy past page like 60 or something.
3. I have, probably a newbie game or something? I play like 6 games a year and barely remember anyone. You did look familiar, though.

#2569 is ewwwwww over explained.

My sentiments exactly. He passed by my concerns about it, though, and failed to address my follow up question about it.

@Cheetory...I'm sorry I couldn't really engage with you much. Catching up I didn't really see much I fought you on other than Espy which isn't really something we could engage in at the time anyway. I'll be around tonight if you have any holes to poke in my observations, though. I'd definitely like to hear how you feel their play is scum motivated, though.

S'all good.
You better not hold me at arm's length today though. A fancy catchup post written over the course of the night in itself makes me a little wary of you potentially trying to obvtown >.>
I intend on trying to absorb everything you're saying when second round of caffeine hits me.

-Cheet

I...what?
11 Hours.
11 HOURS.
That was seven and a half pages in microsoft word at 11pt font.

I mean, I think my scum game is pretty decent from the three days I was able to be scum and most everyone townread me, but what makes you think I'd care enough to do that when virtually no one credible was scumreading me? And THEN...what makes you think that I thought this would obvtown myself?? Do you think it was worth it?

Maybe you should process my comments before speaking nonsense.

[singersigner]

You skipped (5)...

Also, can you provide games, and/or can anyone back up what he's saying, that this really is just how he posts?

[singersigner]

Can we lynch MM4 please?

I'd be ok with this.

My argument for hydrating TWIE was that he is town and I like his reads. The "he will die" part is just for those who insist on scumreading him.

Look at how well that worked out for Seiko and anyone scumreading them!

[singersigner]

Preview Edit:
The point is he didn't die...? Not that nothing came from it. So maybe I didn't understand what you're trying to appeal to?

Im reading posts since daystart now. Still disliking the way singer posts. This, for instance:

138 is a very leading question from Seiko...”what do you think HH has done this game that is unlikely to come from scum” is a pretty big burden of proof to say that nothing they’ve done could ever be faked in the history of ever.

feels like filler. Seriously, singer, asking someone to explain why they are townreading someone is a leading question? I don't buy that from you and this only feels like you potshoting at whatever you see the chance to.

I'm saying that "what is unlikely to come from scum" is like asking someone to prove that scum can't fake certain things. I guess leading question is the wrong word for it...trap question, maybe?

Given the fact that Brantz wasn't lynched solely because of "ZOMG clear", we're going to not clear anyone based on setup until it actually is proven they are clear. I can come up with SEVERAL ways no kill happens without Seiko being town.

I really respect this opinion although Seiko is off the table for Today.

Agreed.

Then you exaggerate how “all I’ve done” is ask pointless questions which prove I haven’t read the game (and then proceed to accuse Sonic of not reading), which if you were reading the game you’d see why I took a an official break while struggling to keep up, had posted plenty before then which in fact gave you a solid town read of me, and based off of ONE QUESTION you use that as an excuse to flip on me?

Let's make this clear. I am quite aware that you were not reading and you took a breeak and whatever. My problem with you is that while on this break, you made posts and questions that you didn't need to make because the answers were in the thread. If you were committed to not reading, why make those questions? The logical thing is to wait until you can read, and THEN, if you still have questions, ask. I fail to see a point into asking questions that are easily answered by reading, except if you wanted to show that you're still in the game, if you felt like you had to post something. Now obviously, I see that you are capable of much better things so it feels lame to accuse you of being that weak that you had to post useless questions for that purpose, but this is how it felt at the time.

Fair enough. I tried to keep up with skimming so it would make catching up less difficult, and I knew I had questions I wanted to follow up with eventually. I even admitted at one point that one of my questions might've been answered already, but for the sake of trying to create my own interactions, I didn't want to rely on that.

What do you think of Cheetory/HH postulating that I could've faked my catchup to try and "obvtown" myself?

1812 from Bacon...how does this hypothesis change now that you know I couldn’t possibly be scum with Ricastle, and I have literally no reason as scum of either team to not go for his lynch?

Obviously, you not mentioning Ricastle had nothing to do with what I thought it did. I don't see the point of this question.

You claimed I was scum with him, but would you claim I could've been scum independently of him? Because your theory that I was scum seemed to revolve 100% around that, and now I'm wondering if/how that changed?

In any case, what I needed to prove was more or less to get you to think about your conclusions before you jump all over them like they're GOD'S WORDS. The way you've responded to my catchup/posts, I don't

think

you're scum, because while somewhat snarky, you're at least reconsidering some things about me based off of new information.

What did Ricastle's flip tell you about the game?

[singersigner]

VOTE: bacon and eggs
im heer

...

[singersigner]

My argument for hydrating TWIE was that he is town and I like his reads.

The "he will die" part is just for those who insist on scumreading him.

Look at how well that worked out for Seiko and anyone scumreading them!

Yes, but you're saying you're appealing to the people who are scumreading him by insinuating he will die is hydrated, so I was pointing out that it didn't work for Seiko because Seiko didn't die.

We're also assuming that both scum teams have kills, and they work with a normal mechanic as opposed to "you may only target x hydras" or whatever. My only knowledge of multiscumball is Weather II so that's something.

What do you think of Cheetory/HH postulating that I could've faked my catchup to try and "obvtown" myself?

I answered that already. I could see you easily faking your catchup given the time you had.

I wouldn't have been able to catchup given that time. What do you see me faking?

See, this is the shit that I don't get from you. You acknowledge I went on a V/LA and wouldn't post because I was working too much and couldn't keep up, and then when I'm not working you think I could be faking my catchup because I actually had time when people stopped posting?

Like...yes, I could've faked my catchup, just like anyone could, but implying it's because it was overnight and I "had the time to fake it" is seriously reaching.

So, you've responded to some of my posts and I've responded to yours. Am I still scum? Why?

You claimed I was scum with him, but would you claim I could've been scum independently of him? Because your theory that I was scum seemed to revolve 100% around that, and now I'm wondering if/how that changed?

Um, no, my scumread on you had nothing to do with Ricastle, that was just an extra.
Yes, you could easily be scum without him being scum.

Oh, I'm sorry, I must've misinterpreted the narrative of you setting up the fact that Ricastle and I MUST be scum buddies together because I was avoiding him. See my previous question to you.

What did Ricastle's flip tell you about the game?

that town is as terrible as usual

Look at all that responsibility for spearheading a lynch and being wrong and then still treating people today like they should still listen to you because of course you're not wrong!

[singersigner]

Yes, but you're saying you're appealing to the people who are scumreading him by insinuating he will die is hydrated, so I was pointing out that it didn't work for Seiko because Seiko didn't die.

Which, again, worked with Seiko because he got conftown'd. Died or conftown'd is the same for those who were scumreading him.

He's not conftowned. Saying so is ignorant.

So, you've responded to some of my posts and I've responded to yours. Am I still scum? Why?

2736

Oh right. Do you not want to take a stance on me? Previously you said random wasn't a lynch because he wouldn't provide information. Do you think I wouldn't provide information? What are you doing to figure out my alignment and why am I off the table for today?

Also, EBWOP: I don't know if it was autocorrect or autopilot, but I meant "wouldn't have bothered to catch up." I wouldn't need to put in the effort because I think I could easily fake keeping up as scum. That's just me, though. I have no way of knowing. I want to deserve my paragon nom, though, so...~effort~ and all...

[singersigner]

What about your scum reads hydrating me prevents you from hydrating me?

[singersigner]

hey espy

get you ass on TWIE

else im getting mine on yours

Only if you promise we can take care of Wisom and or at the very least you won't listen to anything he says anymore. Considering I am counterwagon to scum, I don't know what you think threatening to vote me will change.

And yes they'll answer your questions HH as soon as they get back. I haven't heard from either of them either but I'll keep posting in my hydra PT until they do so.

If Wisdom starts voting scum, we would be glad to have him.

Given his reads seem divorced from reality, we have no intention of following him.

If he joins reality, we would consider following him.

Now vote TWIE

So I was about to QTF but then I feel like I need you to clarify if this means you think he's town.

I feel gross that the wagon I like best right now is Bacon and that's because Wisdom can't get his shit straight, not because I think he's scum. Can someone else why Bert seems to be a townread? Why Oversoul's seemingly off the table (being 100% the opposite of S&V) for today? Can we get a wagon on Generic?

Preview Edit:
@Espsyoncheange...what about TWIE's posting is different? Examples?

[singersigner]

There is literally zero town motivation in anything TWIE posts

There is zero scum motivation in anything TWIE has posted.

Bullshit.

By not scumhunting, he can't get "caught" by having bad or unpopular reads, he leaves zero associative tells, he stalls the game because someone will notice this. Someone else will say well there's nothing scummy in the void of nothingness he's posted.

I have said this like five times and you've never engaged this point at all.

It's beyond frustrating at this point.

Wisdom if you've responded to this point, could you direct me to it?

Really, you don't remember their big fight. I distinctly recall you doing nothing and encouraging that fight because one of them had to be scum.

No, I kept telling they are both town. But fucking twist some more facts.

Could you link the game so we can find out once and for all why you guys are disputing a provable point without providing the facts to back it up?

[singersigner]

singer are you really asking me if I have replied to a non-point?

All of Titus's bullshit are Titus's make-believe. TWIE has nowhere tried to stall and has nowhere rejected to produce reads.

What about it is a non-point? She makes a very good point about how it's very easy for scum to just coast by and if by happenstance get caught, their team is safe. You say he's "no where stalled or no where denied producing reads" but where is he doing it voluntarily? Where's the transparency? What lack of scum motivation specifically made you think he was town?

You two combined for 1500+ posts in that game

What. I saw one post where Titus said that she could catch Wax if he's scum, and not to worry. Interesting.

Also, from a cursory glance it seems like Wisdom did more clarifying/analysis of each player 1 by 1 in depth than in this game. This game Wis has yelled for people to join his wagon pretty much,

different game different player list I suppose

What was the point in bringing this up if you were just going to dismiss it with "different player list beep boop". What makes the difference? Why should that make a difference?

[singersigner]

What about it is a non-point? She makes a very good point about how it's very easy for scum to just coast by and if by happenstance get caught, their team is safe. You say he's "no where stalled or no where denied producing reads" but where is he doing it voluntarily? Where's the transparency? What lack of scum motivation specifically made you think he was town?

How about you show me where he purposefully stalled or refused to produce reads, with a clear intent of achieving what Titus and apparently you too claim?

Is there a reason you keep sluffing the burden of proof onto other people? It seems like you're incapable of proving your points outside of "no YOU do it" and when people are being accommodating, you dismiss it as...what? "I don't believe you because you don't agree with me"? If you're really claiming to be the great scum hunter you are, you should probably work on your ability to get people to believe you.

[singersigner]

That reminds me, though.

hydrate: singer

[singersigner]

Is there a reason you keep sluffing the burden of proof onto other people? It seems like you're incapable of proving your points outside of "no YOU do it" and when people are being accommodating, you dismiss it as...what? "I don't believe you because you don't agree with me"? If you're really claiming to be the great scum hunter you are, you should probably work on your ability to get people to believe you.

Are you listening to yourself?

You are claiming that you agree with Titus that TWIE did something scummy. YOU have to show me where he did it, I can't show you where he didn't.

No. I'm not agreeing with her about TWIE because I couldn't be fucked to go back and look; I'm saying she has a point about what scum do and you're dismissing it as a "non-point" like it's not a valid scumhunting technique. I'm asking you to show me where you think he's town, not where he's not.

The burden of proof is on the persuader actually.

QFT.

You can fight lynches on all of the townreads you want, but you'll have to prove why you think they're town and be convincing enough to prove it to others. Think you can handle the challenge?

Preview Edit:
LOL.

[singersigner]

I'm willing to lynch either one of you at this point.

[singersigner]

vote: Sonic Boom

[singersigner]

I'm willing to lynch either one of you at this point.

and like that singer dodges

And nobody is even going to care about how singer aligned with Titus's bullshit here.

Dodges what...

[singersigner]

Maybe then you'll respond to my questions!

[singersigner]

VOTE: singer

Can I get anyone at all to care about how singer enters my 1v1 with Titus to align herself with Titus's logic that makes zero goddamn sense and after that she completely gets out of it and votes Titus?

And no. You're not getting me lynched, lolwat.

[singersigner]

We talked about this. It's this sort of shit that makes me think you're scum putting on a show for everyone.

[singersigner]

i need to take a break from this fucking shit.

You all need to understand one thing. Scum are sitting back and enjoying the chaos we are giving them. Scum like singer, randomidget, Mario, Oversoul. And we sit here and fight each other.

Let's wagon singer.

Every fucking time she posts she makes it obvious she is scum yet it's like I'm the only one who is seeing it, since the beginning.

Every time you claim how you're the bestested mafia hunter in the world I want to point out shit like this. It makes me feel good inside. ^_^

[singersigner]

Can you also walk me through how you accused me of dodging things I already addressed and when I reposted it again you dodged responding instead?

Is there a reason you keep sluffing the burden of proof onto other people? It seems like you're incapable of proving your points outside of "no YOU do it" and when people are being accommodating, you dismiss it as...what? "I don't believe you because you don't agree with me"? If you're really claiming to be the great scum hunter you are, you should probably work on your ability to get people to believe you.

Are you listening to yourself?

You are claiming that you agree with Titus that TWIE did something scummy. YOU have to show me where he did it, I can't show you where he didn't.

No. I'm not agreeing with her about TWIE because I couldn't be fucked to go back and look; I'm saying she has a point about what scum do and you're dismissing it as a "non-point" like it's not a valid scumhunting technique. I'm asking you to show me where you think he's town, not where he's not.

The burden of proof is on the persuader actually.

QFT.

You can fight lynches on all of the townreads you want, but you'll have to prove why you think they're town and be convincing enough to prove it to others. Think you can handle the challenge?

Preview Edit:
LOL.

I'm willing to lynch either one of you at this point.

and like that singer dodges

And nobody is even going to care about how singer aligned with Titus's bullshit here.

I'm willing to lynch either one of you at this point.

and like that singer dodges

And nobody is even going to care about how singer aligned with Titus's bullshit here.

Dodges what...

[singersigner]

Most of his early posts are "reactive".
Around 1500 the posts became shorter and emptier, with few exceptions. Also, around 1700 (eg. 1702) he started to be "off-offensive", I mean, calling others aßhole, which is interesting because he was much peaceful earlier, when Sonic wanted to WotC him. Above 1900 we can find almost no content.
I can add that I saw him another game before. He was town and much more "less-involved".

This isn't really saying it makes him scum. It's really just providing information?

if you're going to be asking me where i see scum motivation in obvscum then yeah you should

So before you were putting the burden of proof on others to prove why someone is scum because they have to prove why something is there as opposed to you proving why something is not there. Now you're putting the burden of proof on someone

else

to prove why something is not there because if they don't see it's there without you telling them then they should feel bad?

Priceless.

I also like how you accuse me of dodging while doing it twice because when I pointed out how I didn't again and you still didn't respond, yet it's not actually dodging because you didn't see either of my posts in all of your thread-shitting. But it's automatically dodging if I don't see your posts in your own thread-shitting, right?

Again, priceless.

[singersigner]

You two combined for 1500+ posts in that game

What. I saw one post where Titus said that she could catch Wax if he's scum, and not to worry. Interesting.

Also, from a cursory glance it seems like Wisdom did more clarifying/analysis of each player 1 by 1 in depth than in this game. This game Wis has yelled for people to join his wagon pretty much,

different game different player list I suppose

What was the point in bringing this up if you were just going to dismiss it with "different player list beep boop". What makes the difference? Why should that make a difference?

So...I guess I'm gunna try asking this with more clarity?

You made a post talking about Wisdom being more in depth with his analysis (I assume as town in that game), and noting that he's not doing the same here as though you're pointing out some sort of inconsistency. You then dismiss it with the fact that it's a different playerlist. What's the point in bringing it up and running commentary about how it probably doesn't mean anything and you're not going to read any more into it?

Also, what's the point in asking what reads Cheet/Ceph disagree on?

[singersigner]

I hate you guys.
[but actually thank you kind of mostly bert]

Hi cheet. If you could vig kill hitler, Sonic boom, or b/e, which would you shoot?

Sonicboom because maybe my gut was right earlygame, hitler is dead and bacon and eggs is only slightly starting to irritate the shit out of me.

HH, what reads do you and Ceph agree/disagree on?

Off the top of my head:
I was talking with Ceph about Espewhatever earlier and we both feel pretty uneasy about him still.
I don't think he sees eye to eye with me on Oversoul but that fucker hasn't said anything in forever so I'm not really expecting to push anything there until he gets back anyways.
Ceph thinks Generic is obvscum and I'm kind of halfway there.
We both thought AP was supertown, though I'm kind of having weird doubts every now and then.
We think TWIE is slightly more likely to be town than not.
We think Psyche is pretty town.
We thought you were townish on entry from what I remember, but thought your entry to this day was awk.

Why is Generic obvscum?
Why haven't you come to a consensus or disagreement on me, yet?
I do actually need to read over your posts about Espything because I'm not gunna lie, unless I'm actively around for the discussion, I tend to gloss over those back and forths.

[singersigner]

@singer

Did you get a chance to go over pgs 81-100?
Like a missing entry to a journal p much

I also gave you a link to an old game, not sure if that got lost

No I was afraid to keep going in the past while I'm trying to keep up with the future because my "weekend" was over so I wouldn't have the same time to catch up. I still have the tab up, and I remember seeing your link.

Is there a reason you bring that up? I'm not really in the mood to rehash all of the spoilers you've posted trying to overly explain your point of view with your running monologue...do you ever censor yourself or are you kind of like Mastinlite?

Re: not knowing which head of the hydra gave reads...they've been signing pretty consistently. Is there a reason you need to know the difference?

[singersigner]

Ceph said that he thinks he's acting exactly how he was acting in the last game Generic was scum that he was also in.
I'm not really sure why we haven't come to a consensus on you yet. I tried getting a feel for you from your catchup and came away just kind of feeling :s in general. This isn't what I was feeling from you in Signs and Void, which isn't like.. as bad as it sounds? But you skimming past me on Espewhatever was kind of ehhhhh when I asked you specifically to look at him and mentioned that I felt like we hadn't engaged each other to that point. Did you miss me asking that?

No I remember now. I usually make a mental note in thread to do these things and now I just need to do it. It's fucking unreal the explosive pages this thread gets when people are arguing in real time.

Also, you can be more specific on "kind of ehhh" because I really feel like you don't have to sugar coat it. I think I've been transparent enough and that you should be able to either see my motivations and my play comparative to signs and void despite it being multiball, especially when you kept saying early game that you wanted to engage with me to read me better. You didn't really comment on anything in my catchup that I saw which might have been the opportunity to do that since I was essentially as far behind as I was in Signs and Void. Did nothing stand out?

Also, could you have Ceph elaborate on Generic when he can?

Also, also, it feels like you're trying to parse me out with Bacon which is good, but then it's almost like you're defending me, which is almost like you've made a decision on me already, which is weird because you just said you're still not really sure and I'm still not really sure why...

[singersigner]

im really bad at explaining things that I feel are obvious. That said, I understand you are not in my mind and you don't experience things as I do. So I'll try describing what I see in this thread.

Titus, being Titus, wants to believe that TWIE is scum. For whatever reason. For that purpose, she sees everything TWIE does as scummy. TWIE breathes? He wasn't supposed to breathe, he's scum. TWIE posts "you don't need me to post guys, you have Sonic Boom"? He really meant that if Sonic Boom shuts up he will post reads. TWIE decides to troll, answering to the treatment he received out of the game? It's a scummy playstyle designed to avoid giving reads. TWIE doesn't vote? It's because he needs to avoid Titus's VCA, of course!

Did I miss TWIE explaining what he really meant about Sonic Boom shutting up? Or basically any of his other motivations for the way he was acting? Why does it feel like this stands out so vividly in your memory from over 100 pages ago?

[singersigner]

TWIE never asked Sonic Boom to shut up. Titus made that up.

Then why did you say "he really meant that if Sonic Boom shuts up he will post reads" as though you had insight to what he actually meant?

And yeah, I was implying that this seems such a huge thing to you and worth hardcore defending a townread while unsuccessfully advocating for the lynch on a scumread...it's a dynamic I'm unfamiliar with.

@Cheetory...I'm making a mental note to talk about Espy when I read through it again. I actually had a short talk with Mollie about how I need to start going about reading multiball which immediately reminded me of your push on him, but then I forgot again. >_>

[singersigner]

That was to indicate what Titus claimed the purpose was. Reread what I said.

I did and I posted exactly what you said in full context.

Here, let me do it again:

im really bad at explaining things that I feel are obvious. That said, I understand you are not in my mind and you don't experience things as I do. So I'll try describing what I see in this thread.

Titus, being Titus, wants to believe that TWIE is scum. For whatever reason. For that purpose, she sees everything TWIE does as scummy. TWIE breathes? He wasn't supposed to breathe, he's scum.

TWIE posts "you don't need me to post guys, you have Sonic Boom"? He really meant that if Sonic Boom shuts up he will post reads.

TWIE decides to troll, answering to the treatment he received out of the game? It's a scummy playstyle designed to avoid giving reads. TWIE doesn't vote? It's because he needs to avoid Titus's VCA, of course!

No where does that indicate you're implying the second half of the bolded is switching subjects to Titus instead of TWIE, which made it look like you were interpreting what he was saying based off of your memory or narrative of what was going on at the time.

GiF said you weren't even around at the beginning of the game so it felt really out of place that you remembered the details of this particular scenario so long after the fact, despite currently discussing why Titus thinks he's scum (I was implying it was something you noticed as a scum buddy in case that wasn't obvious).

What about your scum reads hydrating me prevents you from hydrating me?

It's just like "why do so many of my scumreads want x to happen?"

And in this instance I would assume that means hydrating you plays into scum's strategy so i don't really know why I would want that?

Like I mean I understand where you're coming from and all but if something feels scumpushed I have no inclination to join


I also think Sonic is "townreading" you but werent they the biggest pushers d1 of hydrate nullreads?: it doesnt make sense

I would've assumed it would be to make me a better night kill target, which is why I was initially weirded out by your question, but the bolded makes sense.

Though...could you explain exactly what strategy you think that would be playing into? Either my team is hydrating me, or scum's setting me up for a kill/crosskill, or I'm townreading one of them incorrectly. Can you think of any other scenarios? Which do you think is more likely?

[singersigner]

Titus is scum because she tried buddying up to me and when I called her out of it and that didn't work, she made an oppotunistic OMGUS hop onto me, successfully bypassing addressing anything I had to say to her after she promised she's respond. Instead she took the first opportunity to alter her entire mood towards me after literally QFTing me and seemingly feeling "positive" about me not being a scum read. And now she's not even dissecting Wisdom's case on me, but just saying "you bring up good points" which is really out of character from her as either alignment. I think she was just looking for an opportunity to repress my ability to catch her.

Wisdom also never responded to my points last night and instead decided to take the opportunity to rehash how I must be scum for making the mistake of trying when I was clearly over my head, failing to explain why that makes me scummy and only reaffirming why he's been terrible this game. Would not hesitate at a policy lynch, hence my "would lynch either of them" comment that apparently made me opportunistic once the deciding vote was placed. Good times!

[singersigner]

@Bert...READING YOUR ISO SUCKS BECAUSE YOU POST PAGES AND PAGES OF SHIT I DO NOT WANT TO READ AND SPOILER EVERY OTHER POST. IF I ASK YOU SOMETHING I WANT A SIMPLE ANSWER NO HEY GO BACK AND WADE THROUGH MOUNTAINS OF SHIT. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME SCUM THAT MAKES ME LITERALLY ANY PLAYER IN THE GAME THAT WANTS TO STAY SANE.

[singersigner]

I don't understand what you're saying. What do you mean she's not engaging anyone about it? The implications she is trying to push are in the thread. People read it, and not being fully understanding of what's being said, get the impression of "singer has a point! Look at how Wisdom and TWIE are connected!" when in fact she has ignored the context in all cases she has implied those connections.

I'm not even getting how you all of a sudden thought I was pushing ether of you as scum. In fact, I've even give soft town reads of you both! It wasn't until your last recollection of what happened that I started questioning and you FLIPPED OUT which made me question everything iroconally enough, lol.

[singersigner]

Which coincidentally is what singer is saying my push is about. Meaning you are trying to diminish the value of my push just like singer is trying to do.

I mean...you pretty clearly had a problem with me trying to interject what I could while I could which started the whole singerscumspiral. You hadn't really embellished on anything other than that until yesterday so why are you surprised that people deconstructed your major argument on me on the fact that you claimed I was coasting and "trying" to produce content when I've made it pretty clear in the past that I have no reason to "try" to produce anything or keep up appearances for anything.

like,
for some reason i almost feel obligated to sort of shit on your play to compensate for the pedestal you put it on
i'm 100% sure that you'd do better if you took an approach of searching for reads you agree on with the people you respect and also trust to have decent reads, and push those instead
you'll be more accurate, less disruptive, and more successful, and you won't have to burn yourself out so much on your crusades

QFT.

No I don't, because it's pretty obvious. He thinks it makes her scum, I don't think that. Again the problem that I do recognize is that Singer doesn't appear to have any concrete reads.

Did you read my catchup posts? I clearly stated three solid townreads and at least four solid scumreads, though those have morphed so for clarity's sake I'll updated them: Oversoul, random, Sonic Boom, Generic and probably Mario though he hasn't made an impression on me, just noting that specifically

hasn't

made an impression on me.

I'm not even getting how you all of a sudden thought I was pushing ether of you as scum. In fact, I've even give soft town reads of you both! It wasn't until your last recollection of what happened that I started questioning and you FLIPPED OUT which made me question everything iroconally enough, lol.

So you were not implying connections between me and TWIE at any point in the game then?

Also how did I flip out again? Just to make sure I understand your perception of the situation.

I didn't say I wasn't implying connections. I was just looking at you hardcore defending someone who hadn't really deserved such a defense, and thought it was weird. I figured you'd be able to offer some sort of reason why you were townreading him, that's all. And...you haven't. So. It's weird. Can you point out where I inferred you two were scum together before your post last night recalling the events of the beginning of the day?

Re: flipping out...so reading comprehension is tech, and it seems really weird that you can't understand how I misinterpreted your post, and in FACT are calling me even scummier for it. It's fucking unreal how you read things, and really difficult to understand why...or how, even, you jump to some of the conclusions that you do. Your inability to allow someone to SPEAK will be your downfall. I only WISH I had a scumread on you, but I genuinely believe you believe all of this shit you're talking. But like...I almost question your arrogance. You claim to be the best scumhunter, but when proven wrong, it's not your fault. If you're scum, you HAVE to be wrong, and the only reason I'm not taking this as a scumtell for you is because it's multiball, so you can't necessarily just be wrong all the time. In hindsight it seemed like you were only scumreading me when I addressed you and you interpreted it as me implying you two were connected in some way. Am I wrong in thinking that?

--------

AP has reached limit of posts he can address from Wisdom for today!

QFT.

[singersigner]

Basically, it comes down to me neither having the time nor the energy to have these spammy 1on1s every night. I cannot just sit at my computer like I did for TWO HOURS last night trying to keep up with the conversation. I won't. For my sanity. I have the time to play this game in a rational world where people stop needing to be the first to respond to everything (like I called out Titus in S&V), but in between work, chemo, and having a life, there's just no way. I couldn't even do that in S&V and the only reason I engaged Titus so much was because I enjoyed knowing I was going to be able to kill her myself.

But I also won't replace out. Eventually people need to change the site meta for this.

[singersigner]

Like, I get that you're all butthurt because I earned my nom in that game and no one seems to recognize what a GREAT (:roll:) scumhunter you claim to be and nominate you (definitely wouldn't based off this game), but that's no reason to act like a child. Please grow up.

[singersigner]

It's unbelievable how you have a way with answering that completely dodges all the points. Bravo.

Can you point out where I dodged the points exactly? I know you have this messed up version of reading comprehension as evidenced by your inability to see how I misunderstood your post, but like...what did I miss, really?

Can you point out where I inferred you two were scum together before your post last night recalling the events of the beginning of the day?

You have been implying it since your "why he isn't scum" and "why is TWIE asking Wisdom about the hydrate thing" questions, as I already explained.

I wanted to see your motivations. I wanted to see you actually give an explanation for a townread, which you seem incapable or unwilling to do! Is that so hard?? Is that so unrealistic to ask?? Geezus fuck, Wisdom. No wonder you were manipulated in [secret alt game]. Scum knew you'd lead town the wrong way.

Like, I get that you're all butthurt because I earned my nom in that game and no one seems to recognize what a GREAT (:roll:) scumhunter you claim to be and nominate you (definitely wouldn't based off this game), but that's no reason to act like a child. Please grow up.

lol what? Wow. Now you're twisting this into being about me being butthurt about scummies? I could care less about scummies.

I mean...you were the one who said you couldn't believe how someone like me got a nom, even though the proof is there if you were even paying attention to any of the references made to it at ALL this game... I can only assume it's because you're upset that someone hasn't nominated you yet...because you'd clearly proven yourself...

[singersigner]

In post 3526, Espsyoncheage wrote:
No I don't, because it's pretty obvious. He thinks it makes her scum, I don't think that. Again the problem that I do recognize is that Singer doesn't appear to have any concrete reads.

Did you read my catchup posts? I clearly stated three solid townreads and at least four solid scumreads, though those have morphed so for clarity's sake I'll updated them: Oversoul, random, Sonic Boom, Generic and probably Mario though he hasn't made an impression on me, just noting that specifically hasn't made an impression on me.

Yes but when you actually talk about people I don't get a sense of what you think about them. I thought you thought that Wisdom and TWIE were linked together as a scumteam, but then that never gets followed up on. I have no idea why during the argument last night and your seemingly scumread on TWIE that you vote for his counterwagon instead. There is a severe disconnect from what you said your reads are and how you approach them in practice.

Fair enough. I did mean to mention that when I don't follow up on something, it either means I missed it or I have reconciled the situation in my head. I hardly ever just say "OH OK" as a filler post, which is why it's so weird that Wisdom thinks it's scummy that I haven't followed up on certain things.

[singersigner]

Once more, since it apparently still isn't clear:

Titus, being Titus, wants to believe that TWIE is scum. For whatever reason. For that purpose, she sees everything TWIE does as scummy. TWIE breathes? He wasn't supposed to breathe, he's scum. TWIE posts "you don't need me to post guys, you have Sonic Boom"?

He really meant that if Sonic Boom shuts up he will post reads.

TWIE decides to troll, answering to the treatment he received out of the game? It's a scummy playstyle designed to avoid giving reads. TWIE doesn't vote? It's because he needs to avoid Titus's VCA, of course!

singer took the bolded and claimed that *I* am claiming that TWIE really meant that if Sonic Boom shuts up he will post reads. And used that to imply I have insight onto what TWIE is doing and why.

When it's fucking obvious that I was referring to Titus. When it's fucking obvious from reading the game that that was a Titus opinion.

The problem I'm having is that if you could rationally tell me "hey you misread that, this is what it was supposed to be" then I would've just dropped it. Instead you come out, guns blazing, claiming I "should've known" because it was "oh so obvious" when it clearly wasn't, and I clearly explained WHY it wasn't. Now you're forcing it into something it wasn't, and it makes me question your motivations for everything you've done so far.

[singersigner]

Oh, you mean the post where I italicized every sentence that refers to Titus wasn't rationally explaining to you what you weren't seeing?

That happened after the misinterpretation. You called me dumb for not seeing it before you explained it (or as you explained it which is essentially the same thing since you jumped to the conclusion that I must be using it against you before allowing me to explain why I misunderstood). You blew it up out of proportion before it even made a difference what you explained to me.

[singersigner]

(I almost don't want to respond because the silence is nice...)

You are proving me right. You are not looking at my reads objectively, you are just treating me as the player who was wrong yesterday.

I thought everyone else was wrong and you were right because he was still scum!
(ok, ok, that was unnecessary...but really entertaining!)

also, im in a place where i want singer to be town just because she's the only one whose reads mostly make sense to me :/

<3 I'm rereading Espy now, but despite their incentive to not want me lynched because I was already townreading them, it's going to take a lot to make me think their interactions with Wisdom today and trying to come to a correct conclusion about me was coming from scum...

Actually it had to do with both of those things?

The point was she hydrated Seiko. Seiko, who I was shouting should be hydrated instead of her. Seiko who I, TWIE, and the rest of her "scumreads" wanted hydrated. And her justification was "I prefer it than being hydrated because I am a top priority nightkill". So she would rather hydrate scum, or someone scum want hydrated, rather than take the hydrate herself. How can you explain this with town motivation?

this is an important and better point focus on this one

So this. I really just didn't have the energy to fight it, not gunna lie. You were starting this narrative that I was scum at that point, and shouting at people to hydrate "obvtown" so like...there you have it? Doesn't get much more complicated than that. Was there a reason you weren't advocating for yourself to get hydrated at that point?

What did you think of Seiko's assertion that they didn't want to hydrate me because it would follow into scum's agenda? Did you think my agenda was to hydrate someone who ended up being one of my bigger scumreads so that way my team could have an excuse to kill them at night? I'm not really following the scum motivation you're trying to assert onto me, especially since you didn't outright say it, and you know how much of a problem reading I have...

She is not answering to that one, soo

So...is this some sort of scum tactic for you? Spam the thread so much that posts get lost so you can accuse people of not addressing every. single. point. at the time you expect them to? Because it's really starting to feel like that...

[singersigner]

So...are you just not responding to me asking you to respond to my questions of you because you think I'm scum, because you keep missing my solicitations of your response, or because you keep forgetting, because I'm having a hard time keeping track of why you wouldn't engage with me anymore.

Can you point out what about Wisdom's case you like? You did a complete 180 on me once I voted you and then decided to go V/LA, so I'm still lost here.

[singersigner]

Oh man, I missed that post by Sonic...I guess there's part of my answer for why things changed on their end, but I'm not really sure how I'd be peacemaker by deciding that Sonic is scum...isn't that the opposite of peacemaker?
And lol...I don't have to encourage ANY conflict from Wisdom because he brings it on himself. You'd been shouting at him long before I got there to play nice and stop being "dumb" or whatever word you want to replace that with.
Where was I encouraging you to keep pushing TWIE if not to express my approval of your line of questioning...what would you have preferred I do?
What "platitudes" am I pushing now voting for you? Am I wrong in the things I've brought up and called you out on?

[singersigner]

I know, Titus, I have understood that the more you engage scum, the more you help them defend and appear town. But I just can't stand singer posting bullshit, dodging everything important, and people just buying it because they dislike me. I feel like if I stop people are going to stop caring about singer.

So...are

you

not going to engage me? Are you encouraging

her

not to engage me? I'm really not sure I'm following your strategy here...because it feels like any time I miss something, you're raging that I'm scum, and every time I try to address it, you're raging that I'm dodging. I don't think you can have it both ways...unless you're bi...

I have been trying to understand your viewpoint, but you need to step back and realize it's not going to happen at a snap of a finger.

This sounds like you're trying to not look scummy by jumping onto my wagon...

[singersigner]

AT HH/CHEETORY/CEPH...

2573 is the biggish case I see by Cheetory on Espy and most of it looks like bias towards everything they post. The only relevant things I see are calling out the randomidget read, and the empty unvote without revoting. Even parking it on someone gives a faint feeling of umpf behind it, but they called that out later because they'd been voting for pretty much the rest of the time. I don't see the hydra dissonance as being a thing, because it's not like they're publicly disagreeing with each other; they're conferring, which is the whole point. I'd rather see that than what Titus and Metal Sonic have been doing which looks like making a show out of it. Have you not noticed what they've been doing? What do you think of their hydra?

2597 is WHAT because you literally just talked about hydra dissonance with Espy but then you respond with "do I look like Ceph to you" implying that you weren't on the same page like an excuse not to have provided some sort of consistency... (and then again in 2604 kind of shirking the responsibility onto your hydra partner...)

2794 is a follow-up/more concisely written case on Espy, but his response to your forth point resonated with me a lot because I tend to react in the same way. People said I basically scumread everyone scumreading me in S&V, but it often has to do with their thoughts not lining up with mine, and therefore I don't think they must be thinking from a town mindset. Often why I tend to go into question mode to find out motivation before interjecting with my own assumptions.

Basically, I think none of your points really boil down to explaining the scum motivations of Espy aside from the hydra dissonance which I personally disagree is a thing. I think they've all tried to be very transparent while not talking over each other, and it feels like a lot of your read on them in turning into confbias, which is replicating a lot of what Wisdom seems to be doing to me right now...sorry...

Because in my entire ISO I try to avoid doing things that make people think I'm scum...

Huh? I just meant that you've been townreading me for the majority of the game, and instead of just going the whole Sonic Boom route and saying "I agree with Wisdom" it looked like you could've been trying to slowly find a reason to be on me. But I think that's just my paranoia because Cheetory asked me to look at you so I was already not in the right mindset.

[singersigner]

Other than "because she says things about you that I agree" and "because you are scumreading her"

Well because the things-

I think she shows the critical thinking I expect to see from town. I know one of your (someone's?) arguments early Day 1 was that she was questioning things and then providing no follow up, but I disagreed with that. Early on she questioned blanket townreads on her from players she wasn't interacting with. On one hand you can wave that away as scum theatre, on the other hand in a game like this, what's the point? And yeah she said things early on I agreed with. She picked up on the same things I picked up on with Ricastle, about trying to bully people with a flavorclaim (something that got largely ignored by everyone else). I think she was hitting the right notes against Rune. I know scum can legitimately scumhunt in multiball, but there is a certain point where a scum player in multiball needs to push a narrative and I don't feel it. Her 'catch-up' that people bemoaned was again another thing that I think comes from a town place. It's busy work that she didn't need to do (and if she was scum trying to fake it, then it hilariously backfired for the most part).

The fighting that has been going on in this thread is so great scum players either have to participate in the fight (to keep it going), or just completely stay out of it any not put in any real sustained effort.

Scum can come in, make a post that seems like scumhunting, and show themselves out. I don't think Singer is doing that, I think she is consistently trying to push through with her content.

I think there are things about Singer worth questioning...I'm not sure where her reads are at this point, I think she is avoiding taking hard stances on any of our fighting slots...but these things aren't enough to make me reconsider my read. I think you see emptyness in her posts? I don't quite see it. So here walk me through what you are seeing.

I know I'm biased, but this whole post regarding why they were disagreeing with Bacon on me seemed genuine and understanding of where my head was at, plus boldly called out the fighting that can easily hide scum. (speaking of which, do you have any follow up on this or thoughts as to who might be doing the bolded?)

I don't understand what you're saying. What do you mean she's not engaging anyone about it? The implications she is trying to push are in the thread. People read it, and not being fully understanding of what's being said, get the impression of "singer has a point! Look at how Wisdom and TWIE are connected!" when in fact she has ignored the context in all cases she has implied those connections.

I'm not even getting how you all of a sudden thought I was pushing ether of you as scum. In fact, I've even give soft town reads of you both! It wasn't until your last recollection of what happened that I started questioning and you FLIPPED OUT which made me question everything iroconally enough, lol.

Yeah...what? What were you doing, what are you doing now?

Uh...what?

In post 3526, Espsyoncheage wrote:
No I don't, because it's pretty obvious. He thinks it makes her scum, I don't think that. Again the problem that I do recognize is that Singer doesn't appear to have any concrete reads.

Did you read my catchup posts? I clearly stated three solid townreads and at least four solid scumreads, though those have morphed so for clarity's sake I'll updated them: Oversoul, random, Sonic Boom, Generic and probably Mario though he hasn't made an impression on me, just noting that specifically hasn't made an impression on me.

Yes but when you actually talk about people I don't get a sense of what you think about them. I thought you thought that Wisdom and TWIE were linked together as a scumteam, but then that never gets followed up on. I have no idea why during the argument last night and your seemingly scumread on TWIE that you vote for his counterwagon instead.

There is a severe disconnect from what you said your reads are and how you approach them in practice.

I never responded to this. Aaaaaand, yes, I don't doubt that there is, lol. I don't know that my reads have been as organic as I've like them to have been, but I think I'm definitely adapting them as new information is being filtered. I've tried a lot of different approaches to how to figure out this game, and why it's different from S&V (which I can only attribute to having a team), to the extent that I solicited advice from a third party on how to scumhunt in a multi-ball game. >_> I think I caught on to Sonic, though, which is unfortunate because I really didn't want Titus to get caught twice in a row...

You did a complete 180 on me once I voted you and then decided to go V/LA, so I'm still lost here.

im having a really hard time digesting this

REALLY hard

Is it worded too awkwardly? I'm not sure what you're having trouble with...

[singersigner]

I don't think TWIE is scum at all. I will continue going on the record saying that. I only

just

thought that when Wisdom made a weird connection I misread. The only other time I was questioning their connection was when I didn't read the context thoroughly. I can't create a narrative of them being scum together if I don't even think one of them is scum. I don't know how much more I can say that, and Wisdom's paranoia that all of a sudden people will subconsciously think he's scum because he thinks I've been slowly connecting them all game WHEN I DON'T THINK TWIE IS SCUM only makes me feel like he's worried he'll be "caught for the wrong reasons".

And I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take "don't use S&V as a crutch" when people are saying "wow you're not the same as you were in S&V." Like, that game was a breakout game with me and didn't overwhelm me nearly as much as this one. I'm angry that people are putting this burden of proficiency on me like "prove yourself oh great one!" like Oversoul came out of the gate with this game. No pressure, right?? Combined with the fact that the only multiball game I've ever played was one that I died N2 in because someone picked up on my cop crumb of an insane innocent three years ago now. I'm way over my head and can't figure out who's genuine and who's not. ALSO combined with the fact that I town hunt, which is no secret to anyone who cares to meta-dive me (mostly because I'm only used to Newbie Games where it's easy to PoE), so it's very hard for me to be confident in my scumreads. Titus was an anomaly. I don't fucking know. Don't ask me to fucking explain it.

I'm still at the point where I don't care who we lynch anymore. It can be me if people want. Who cares! If you don't follow my reads, that's fine. I've communicated them as clearly as I can, and if you don't think I'm explaining them well enough, then you can continue pointing out where I'm not explaining them well enough because saying "I don't know what her reads are" when I very clearly stated them, is pretty bullshit.

Like, apparently I should just try lurking or another V/LA because apparently people can get away with that now.

[singersigner]

I don't fucking think you're scum espy, ok? I'm sorry I even voiced my suspicion after I just ISOd HH to read his whole case on you trying not to read it with bias.

[singersigner]

Actually, no, I do care who we lynch.

Let's talk about who only has 12 posts.

vote: randomidget

[singersigner]

I'm gettinng Fed up with this game because i'm getting scumread for things I can't defend because they aren't actually scummy, and the people willing to lurk with me continue to replace out.

I feel that bacon and egg is scum as thry kerp saying thst they are town and that anyone who says otherwise is scum, which sounds like a guilty conscience. Town lurk just as much as scum do. It is true I made the readslist because I needed to put some content out, but thst doesn't mean the rrads weren't real or scummy.
Also cait wtf. You just said you havr never yhought I was zcum and yet vote me. Was thst a typo or a scumslip?

THIS sounds like scum caught for the wrong reasons. Almost like he knew town was lurking, too, but town was willing to own up and replace out, and he didn't, so now he's stuck getting called out on it with no defense.

[singersigner]

Has anyone been scumreading you because I've been supposedly linking you to TWIE?

[singersigner]

Wisdom's paranoia that all of a sudden people will subconsciously think he's scum because he thinks I've been slowly connecting them all game

I don't even

Let's take the facts and call them paranoia

Not to mention she's presenting it as if I give a fuck about whether anyone scumreads me.

Oh...I dunno...

[singersigner]

To be honest, I was actually connecting you and randomidget because of your big push on Ricastle, while saying that both he or randomidget should die. You never had any other push on randmidget but to group him in with someone who should be lynched, which in hindsight seems really out of character. So it's kind of funny that something I never tried to do, was misinterpreted as something I DID try to do.

What are your thoughs on randomidget now?

[singersigner]

What are your thoughs on randomidget now?

[singersigner]

Oh singer found another connection to push now

IT'S THE ONLY CONNECTION I WAS PUSHING WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM

[singersigner]

I like how you dodged the question, though. A++ work there.

[singersigner]

Hi notty! Why don't you hang out with us more?

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: oversoul

[singersigner]

So your question to TWIE about why he's asking me in particular about the hydrate thing was not implying a connection.

So you quoting me asking why he is scum and demanding to know why he isn't scum wasn't implying a connection.

It wasn't implying a connection either when you accused me of having insight about why TWIE is posting reads or not. Or about remembering details about what happened in the early game.

None of that was an attempt to imply a connection between Wisdom and TWIE. Singer is being misrepped.

I was trying to establish if there WAS a connection, not that I already thought there was. I dropped it because I didn't see one, especially after I caught up (which you seem to think was scummy because oh no she didn't follow up on every detail of the game!). There's a difference between trying to figure out why people are directing questions to certain people and them saying 'must be buddies'! Which I never did and never implied UNTIL I SPECIFICALLY SAID SO ABOUT YOUR POST LAST NIGHT WHICH WAS A WEEK AFTER EVERYTHING ELSE.

The whole asking why he wasn't scum because he never did anything town to give you a read (something I've already said before) so I STILL DON'T GET HOW YOU CONTINUE TO GIVE READS AND NOT EXPLAIN THEM BECAUSE IT'S UP TO THE PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU TO PROVE YOU WRONG.

But seriously you've obviously seen me ask you about randomidget yet are harping on TWIE again, so can you just give your fucking opinion of him since you seem to have dropped it cold turkey today?

[singersigner]

wow even my other head is counterwagoning singer. No words.

There wasn't a wagon on me and you weren't anywhere near getting me lynched. Cry more.

What's your opinion of randomidget and why Oversoul over him since you seemed to think he was el scum numero dos yesterday.

[singersigner]

HEY WISDOM WHAT'S YOUR READ ON RANDOMIGET AND ALSO OVERSOUL.

[singersigner]

Are you talking D1 when you kept saying "ricastle or random"? Or are you talking about at some point D2?

[singersigner]

You've got to be kidding me...

[singersigner]

Meanwhile singer acts like it isn't obvious this is GIF. Because the Oversoul vote didn't make it obvious he's posting

~Wis

I mean, when you said "great now my partner's creating a counter wagon to singer" I kinda figured it out. Especially when he, y'know, hydra-slipped. But I've been trying to get you to give YOUR read on randomidget, which you keep avoiding for some reason, and I thought maybe that was you PRAISE BE TO JESUS finally reconciling that read...somehow...

[singersigner]

I quoted Wisdom's last updated comprehensive reads list in my post on the previous page (forgot to add spoiler tags to it).... random and oversoul and mario have made like 1 post each since that time...

Spoiler:

So now that I'm caught up:

Reads:

Town: {Seiko x Naomi, Sonic Boom, Homiletic Homunculi, TheWayItEnds, Generic}
Nulltown: {Bert, p2, Cait Sith, ZZZX}
Nullscum: {AP, singersigner, MarioManiac, randomidget, Oversoul}
Scum: {Espsyoncheage}

Any of my nullscum reads would make decent lynches but Espsy is the one I want most.

On hydration:

Hydrate: TheWayItEnds

This feels like a good idea. He is town, he seems to have good reads whenever he has expressed them, and if he gets killed it will only mean that he will stop distracting the people who don't see he is town.

Right, I did see that post. I was hoping that he didn't need someone else's help to communicate something relevant as of the last hour or so when I brought up that I was making a connection between them on D1. I particularly wanted to see how he felt about them since he seemed pretty vocal about grouping them with Ricastle, and wondered why he seemed resistant to just answering the question, especially considering his reads have obviously changed since then being as I've been his tunnel for the last couple of days meaning I'm no longer a nullread.

[singersigner]

I'm going back to watching Community because I passed up way too many opportunities to watch it while trying to keep up with this game. You all suck for keeping me from Abed.

[singersigner]

Explain your read on me singer.

I'm following up on wisdoms request to read you. And I'm struggling to connect the dots on why you have the read you do.

I don't think it's any more than you started this game in a pretty eager manner, and then I haven't liked the way you've devolved into snarky backs and forths with HH. You haven't felt genuine from the moment you asked in thread about the hydrating mechanic to the trying to conftown yourself by slipping in the town-aligned team to reacting so negatively to HH who I just can't ever see as scum.

hydrate psyche

I'm getting back here. In the last exchange it doesn't look good for singer.
VOTE: singer
They srem to be trying to put pressure on bacon and eggs without actually engaging him

If that's what you got out of this exchange then you just need to replace out already. Fucking unreal.

Spoiler: Titus

@Singer,

I am sorry I didn't detail in extreme detail my friend's illness that causes me to mentally not be here earlier. I figured stating that I was not 100%, posting less, and being more open to being wrong and being more agreeable would indeed cover that. But considering you need to know that I spent a good chunk of that time driving to various hospitals, trying to help her business, while trying to keep my own life and plans together.

There is a reason I asked to bold questions to me that needed a response. I have a tendency to miss things. I didn't see anything bolded. I also didn't see a question regarding your buddying concerns for me to answer.

Frankly, I spent a good chunk of that time driving to various hospitals or drunk. Why? Because I thought there was a legit chance my best friend was dying and I could do nothing to stop it. The last thing I wanted to deal with was coming back here and dealing with a game where Wisdom kept bullying people into fucking voting my town reads and watching them flip town.

This second VLA is more so people don't bitch we are blocking scumhunting and actually see that you are scum singer.

If you need a more detailed accounting Singer, fuck you.

~Titus

Out of game: Titus I'm really sorry that's been happening and I hope things get resolved soon in a good way. Thoughts are with you. <3

In game: so...I'm not really sure where all of this came from...but I don't really feel good about it because it was completely uncalled for. It feels a lot like her outburst in S&V when one of her professors passed away, and I feel really gross using this as a reference point, but like...I don't really know what else to think about it? It was an unnecessarily dramatic excuse for not being around which seems to be a response to me pointing out she went V/LA without responding to my questions. All she'd've had to do was read my 5-6 posts at the beginning of the day. I made it pretty easy for people to look at what was directed at them, and what I expected a response to. Instead she lashes out, seemingly out of no where without even explaining why or referencing the post that made her do that. She makes it seem like I was questioning her V/LA with her over-explanation (no where did I do that) and victimizes herself in the mean time. I know I'm a different player, but I have a really hard time seeing how someone who tries to be so logical could read into my recent posts so much, and it feels like a big AtE based off of one major pressure vote on them only confirming my read. I also feel like Metal Sonic should've known what's going on with Titus and could've taken the reigns and responded for their hydra sooner (as is some of the benefits of having a hydra!), unless Titus was afraid MS wouldn't do it right while she wasn't around.

My gut is concerned about HH.

Glad to know we're going to be a shitty compromise lynch on D3.
Looking forward to it.

@singer,
I don't really feel like responding to everything you said about my esp case is going to mean much because I'm not even really sure if I'm scumreading him anymore. I just wanted to say that I felt a little frustrated reading your response because it felt like you were acknowledging points, saying you disagreed with them and then you just kind of tossed it all back in my face by saying

ALL of it was confbias and hydra dissonance which I feel like wasn't the case.

:/

Gonna try reading things again at some point, I guess.
Oversoul shouldn't get quicklynched before he gets back from VLA.
-cheet.

I mean, I was trying to be nice by say you had a good point about the hydra dissonance to be honest. I didn't think the case was very good, and tried not to just be like NAH DON'T LIKE IT. I'm not really sure what to tell you about the confbias thing, either. You started doing what Wisdom is doing to me and saying "but see obvscum!" and responding in a snarky matter basically giving them no room to breath or any real insight to why you thought it was scummy..or why it even

was

scummy. I will go back and quote the specific quotes I felt that way about because I need you to see why it looked like that.

[singersigner]

I dunno Generic, you're like my least strong read that I kind of threw in. You're pretty much on the same level as Mario right now because I would much prefer Oversoul, random, or Sonic Boom. Actually, I'd even lynch Wisdom over you because he's shot up my scum list, though I don't see a wagon on him happening any time soon because getting there would insight another 1000+ posts of rage and no one wants that.

[singersigner]

@Singer, You just seem to go for those easy low blows. VLAs are not meant to be used for scumhunting. There's logical things here but you like the easy way out.

#3608 is questioning why I haven't engaged you and saying you couldn't keep track as if I was wilfully avoiding you. My response to that is completely appropriate to actually respond to what I fucking see.

You are attempting to twist any sort of VLA into something scummy.

Yeah, I found out my professor died in Signs and Void. I never, ever used that for a strategic advantage, ever.

I never feel vlas should have to be defended.

I shouldn't have to justify when and why I am not engaging one possible in the thread when it's already there.

So yes, I am going to be pissed when someone uses my real life against me.

That sends a real clear message that I can either be a person with feelings, or a decent mafia player, not both. Frankly, I would be just as pissed off if someone said we were obvtown for the way we handled this. Real life is out of bounds for scumhunting. I did put that mental vla in all of my fucking games. All of them.

You are the only one assholely enough to think I am not engaging them for it.

I value logic but sometimes emotions do cloud by judgment and I feel that honesty about that is important.

I shouldn't have to justify my VLA, nor should Oversoul.

You don't want a fight with Wisdom. You seem to want easy pickings, that's not happening on my watch.

I was never attacking you going V/LA, wth? 3608 was me calling you out on not responding to my questions after waiting for you to do so for several

several

pages' worth of discussion, even after you admitted you still had to get to them long before you guys actually went V/LA because apparently it wasn't a priority for you address my concerns before deciding I was scum (hence the 180 comment). I still don't even see how you thought I was attacking you going V/LA, or how you felt blowing up about it and telling me to fuck myself if I "needed more explanation" that I never asked for in the first place, was ever justified. Here it just looks like you're overreacting to thinking I was questioning your motives and projecting your own insecurities about feeling like you had to explain why you were gone onto me.

[singersigner]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME SONIC.

[singersigner]

Here, because it's soooooooo hard to just ISO me and see the posts I needed addressed.
(Metal Sonic already responded to some of these but for the sake of Titus not being able to ctl f I'm just putting it all here from my catchup)

86 and 87 from Sonic suck monkey balls for creating hydra dissonance publicly in thread. There’s no reason to respond to your partner in thread when you can easily talk on chat or PM or whatever (yes I already mentioned this but it seemed particularly relevant to say again).
421 from Titus/Sonic is alkdjfsbahlisjghasidgj because that’s the SAME SHIT that made me scum read her in the first place in S&V. Her superiority complex is UNREAL.
422 from Matal/Sonic is akjlsdfhbpiajsdgh because he’s so caught up in his tunnel that he hasn’t tried to engage with people to get those other reads. Though I can concede to being better at townhunting than scumhunting, as is my usual prerogative.
429 from Metal/Sonic...you say you have a hydra PT to hide reads in when Titus made a public post asking for a PT to be made, and you’ve previously referenced being able to discuss things in real time about your reads with regards to certain players...it sounds like you’re being very specific about what you’re public about and what you’re not to fit your objective.
552 from Titus/Sonic is WHOLEY GEEZUS. This response to Cheetory about why you overlooked his obliviousness is like...how do you ignore things like that for towncred as scum? How do you overlook careless errors as scum and ever push mislynches? This looks like justifying something Cheetory caught on to... 
590 from Ceph is a good point about Titus sucking up to me, but so has Metal Sonic...I’m just not really sure she’d be that stupid? It’s all WIFOM, but it’s something I’m certainly paranoid about.
656 by Titus/Sonic...662. >_>
787 and 797 from Titus/Sonic...what made you decide I was “obvtown” between these posts?
1038 from Sonic is something I want to keep track of because in their followup, it looks like a cover-up for mistaking the fact that there are two scum teams and they know the one so they’re only looking for the other... (follow-up was 1108)
1369 from Sonic...so do you think my V/LA specific to this game was anti-town?
1573 from Sonic...but why did you have to ask in the thread? Why not just PM the mod, or continue talking via other mediums. It seemed theatrical and calculated.

[singersigner]

unless Titus was afraid MS wouldn't do it right while she wasn't around.

did you just insinuate that I am bad as scum here? to "not do it right when Titus wasn't around" "shifty"?

you were on Westeros Circlejerk, and that point should not even have come from you.

how are you even attacking Titus with this?

I fail to understand?

I never felt the need to attack Titus for being V/LA until she made that post explaining why she was V/LA and attacking me for HOW DARE I QUESTION HER MOTIVES RAWR. You should be able to objectively see that but the fact that you're not means you're either refusing not to or just letting her walk all over you.

[singersigner]

EBWOP

Here, because it's soooooooo hard to just ISO me and see the posts I needed addressed.
(Metal Sonic already responded to some of these but for the sake of Titus not being able to ctl f I'm just putting it all here from my catchup)

86 and 87 from Sonic suck monkey balls for creating hydra dissonance publicly in thread. There’s no reason to respond to your partner in thread when you can easily talk on chat or PM or whatever (yes I already mentioned this but it seemed particularly relevant to say again).
421 from Titus/Sonic is alkdjfsbahlisjghasidgj because that’s the SAME SHIT that made me scum read her in the first place in S&V. Her superiority complex is UNREAL.
422 from Matal/Sonic is akjlsdfhbpiajsdgh because he’s so caught up in his tunnel that he hasn’t tried to engage with people to get those other reads. Though I can concede to being better at townhunting than scumhunting, as is my usual prerogative.
429 from Metal/Sonic...you say you have a hydra PT to hide reads in when Titus made a public post asking for a PT to be made, and you’ve previously referenced being able to discuss things in real time about your reads with regards to certain players...it sounds like you’re being very specific about what you’re public about and what you’re not to fit your objective.
552 from Titus/Sonic is WHOLEY GEEZUS. This response to Cheetory about why you overlooked his obliviousness is like...how do you ignore things like that for towncred as scum? How do you overlook careless errors as scum and ever push mislynches? This looks like justifying something Cheetory caught on to... 
590 from Ceph is a good point about Titus sucking up to me, but so has Metal Sonic...I’m just not really sure she’d be that stupid? It’s all WIFOM, but it’s something I’m certainly paranoid about.
656 by Titus/Sonic...662. >_>
787 and 797 from Titus/Sonic...what made you decide I was “obvtown” between these posts?
1038 from Sonic is something I want to keep track of because in their followup, it looks like a cover-up for mistaking the fact that there are two scum teams and they know the one so they’re only looking for the other... (follow-up was 1108)
1369 from Sonic...so do you think my V/LA specific to this game was anti-town?
1573 from Sonic...but why did you have to ask in the thread? Why not just PM the mod, or continue talking via other mediums. It seemed theatrical and calculated.

There was more but I left out the ones I thought were just running commentary and didn't need to be responded to unless you guys saw fit.

[singersigner]

Spoiler: Singer and Mod Quotes

For the record, it's blatantly apparent TWIE is playing similar to how he played in survivor, which not only says he's scum but also that he has a team full of people he expects won't be able to last long, and has given up before the game has even gotten started. that being said,

I'm not really jonesing to lynch lurker pondscum on day 1.

I'd rather lynch spammy scum that fill the thread with bullshit (Hint: If you two say one more time you weren't giving excuses I will go in your iso and quote every single excuse).

I don't like twie play at all.

Not a lynch candidate for today imo

but he is a second tier scum read right now.

HOW DOES THIS EVEN MAKE SENSE.

If you find scum, you find scum. You don't let them rally overnight with the rest of their team. Geezus fuck, guys. How do you reconcile that kind of scum hunting when you can't even use associative tells until a flip??

Wis how likely do you think it is that scum would trade themselves for an unknown PR for a teammate on day 1?

how does this happen?

~Wis

Scum gets hydrated and gives teammate a pr.

Scum gets crosskilled.

This is a really weird hypothetical question not knowing how the numbers lay...why ask Wisdom? (I might've missed the context in my perusing) Also, what's the interest at this point with no flips or any real wagons at this point?

You gripe about Singer not discussing things while VLA.

Also that was not my problem with singer. My problem was her useless questions.

~Wis

I remember the last time someone told me my questions weren't productive or the "right" kind. Should I start taking that as a scum tell?

oversoul has been prodded

Vote count 1.26

Voting:

Sonic boom

: oversoul, seiko x naiomi

Seiko x naomi

: Bert

ricastle:

bacon and egg, homuletic homunculi, Angry frat BROS, MarioManiac4,

Randomidget:

Cait sith, singersigner

TheWayItEnds:

zzzx, Generic, ricastle, Sonic boom,

Espsyoncheage:

p2,

bacon and egg:

Espsyoncheage, randomidget,

Not Voting:

thewayitends,

Hydration:

Ricastle

: ricastle, Bert

singersigner

: randomidget, Sonic Boom, Espysoncheage, Ricastle

Bert:

oversoul, singersigner,

Seiko x naomi

: seiko x naomi, Generic, bacon and egg, angry frat BROS, Cait Sith

p2:

homuletic homunculi,

zzzx:

zzzx[/align][/area]

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch
deadline is june 29 at 10:36 cst thats in (expired on 2015-06-29 10:36:00)

Singer is V/LA until friday
Generic is V/LA until monday

Cait Sith has been prodded

Vote count 1.27

Voting:

Sonic boom

: oversoul, seiko x naiomi

ricastle:

bacon and egg, homuletic homunculi, Angry frat BROS, MarioManiac4, Bert

Randomidget:

Cait sith, singersigner

TheWayItEnds:

zzzx, Generic, ricastle, Sonic boom,

Espsyoncheage:

p2,

bacon and egg:

Espsyoncheage, randomidget,

Not Voting:

thewayitends,

Hydration:

Ricastle

: ricastle,

mariomaniac

: Bert

singersigner

: randomidget, Sonic Boom, Espysoncheage, Ricastle

Bert:

oversoul, singersigner,

Seiko x naomi

: seiko x naomi, Generic, bacon and egg, angry frat BROS, Cait Sith

p2:

homuletic homunculi,

zzzx:

zzzx[/align][/area]

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch
deadline is june 29 at 10:36 cst thats in (expired on 2015-06-29 10:36:00)

Generic is V/LA until monday

Eh.

unhydrate
hydrate: Seiko

unvote
vote: TheWayItEnds

PAGES 11-20
283 from Oversoul means he’s still scum. >_>
287 from Ricastle pinged me then and pings me now. Seems like he’s trying to get on top of the game by preemptively giving himself cred.
291 from Espyoncheange...WHOLEY SHIT HOW DID I MISS THIS. Really good catch from him about randomidget’s vote/hydrate of Sonic. Weird dynamic here...

could be scumbuddies...?

-Titus hasn’t tried forming a townblock so I think that’s in her favor as town, lol.
295 from Axe is completely arbitrary since with multiball you have no idea if someone could be on the other scum team...
Page 13 reaffirms my initial Axe read and new Ricastle read.
344 and 351[/post from Axe is yet another baseless/unexplained townread (the first from Cait Sith) on me.
[post]410 from HH/Cheetory...I don’t think I read it that well the first time. He’s always saying the things I want to say (like in S&V).

Metal’s response in 411 is sad because is that really all he has to respond in a post 50% dedicated to the things his hydra’s saying??

Which Cheet then noticed in 413
421 from Titus/Sonic is alkdjfsbahlisjghasidgj because that’s the SAME SHIT that made me scum read her in the first place in S&V. Her superiority complex is UNREAL.
422 from Matal/Sonic is akjlsdfhbpiajsdgh because he’s so caught up in his tunnel that he hasn’t tried to engage with people to get those other reads. Though I can concede to being better at townhunting than scumhunting, as is my usual prerogative.
429 from Metal/Sonic...you say you have a hydra PT to hide reads in when Titus made a public post asking for a PT to be made, and you’ve previously referenced being able to discuss things in real time about your reads with regards to certain players...it sounds like you’re being very specific about what you’re public about and what you’re not to fit your objective.
445 from Seiko is weird because it is basically the severalth post saying the same thing about how Sonic Boom isn’t advancing the game state, in an unconvincing way, replicating the whole TWIE/Sonic Boom thing in the first place.
460 from Cheetory...MY SPIRIT ANIMAL.
469 from Seiko...did you follow Signs and Void much? If yes, how might you compare Titus play from here to there? From what I’ve seen of Titus, her town play might be closer to the chest (and I only say that having familiarity with her scum play trying to resemble her town play). She’s willing to give those town reads freely as scum in order to create favor within what she needs to be a town block. What are the differences you see? Does multiball factor into that?
481 from Cheetory...OH GAWD MORE SPIRIT ANIMAL.
492 from Sonic Boom...ok, I remember pointing out that the sheer amount of effort from this is probably town, but I feel obligated to point out now that it’s the kind of stuff that’s easily fakeable. What’s NOT as fakeable is the commentary on it, which surprisingly enough, doesn’t have as much IoA as I would’ve thought upon a second read.

vote: Oversoul

Solid catchup singer I like how cohesive the thoughts are concerning me.

I especially like the parts where you say you're onboard with policy lynching me and then go on to do nothing but agree with me.
It also seems fairly likely that youve forgotten that you've actually seen my scumgame before.

1. Eh. It doesn't need to be cohesive. I did all of that over the span of about 11 hours' worth of reading and comprehending (or trying to >_>), and I still have about 20 pages I kind of feel like skipping over...but since it apparently resulted in a flashwagon on town a week before deadline, I'm thinking I shouldn't.
2. I was on board with policy lynching you at the point it was worth policy lynching you. If you really paid attention to my catchup, you'd see my reads change and my opinion of you along with it. You're not screaming town, but I hardly think you're scummy past page like 60 or something.
3. I have, probably a newbie game or something? I play like 6 games a year and barely remember anyone. You did look familiar, though.

#2569 is ewwwwww over explained.

My sentiments exactly. He passed by my concerns about it, though, and failed to address my follow up question about it.

@Cheetory...I'm sorry I couldn't really engage with you much. Catching up I didn't really see much I fought you on other than Espy which isn't really something we could engage in at the time anyway. I'll be around tonight if you have any holes to poke in my observations, though. I'd definitely like to hear how you feel their play is scum motivated, though.

S'all good.
You better not hold me at arm's length today though. A fancy catchup post written over the course of the night in itself makes me a little wary of you potentially trying to obvtown >.>
I intend on trying to absorb everything you're saying when second round of caffeine hits me.

-Cheet

I...what?
11 Hours.
11 HOURS.
That was seven and a half pages in microsoft word at 11pt font.

I mean, I think my scum game is pretty decent from the three days I was able to be scum and most everyone townread me, but what makes you think I'd care enough to do that when virtually no one credible was scumreading me? And THEN...what makes you think that I thought this would obvtown myself?? Do you think it was worth it?

Maybe you should process my comments before speaking nonsense.

hey espy

get you ass on TWIE

else im getting mine on yours

Only if you promise we can take care of Wisom and or at the very least you won't listen to anything he says anymore. Considering I am counterwagon to scum, I don't know what you think threatening to vote me will change.

And yes they'll answer your questions HH as soon as they get back. I haven't heard from either of them either but I'll keep posting in my hydra PT until they do so.

If Wisdom starts voting scum, we would be glad to have him.

Given his reads seem divorced from reality, we have no intention of following him.

If he joins reality, we would consider following him.

Now vote TWIE

So I was about to QTF but then I feel like I need you to clarify if this means you think he's town.

I feel gross that the wagon I like best right now is Bacon and that's because Wisdom can't get his shit straight, not because I think he's scum. Can someone else why Bert seems to be a townread? Why Oversoul's seemingly off the table (being 100% the opposite of S&V) for today? Can we get a wagon on Generic?

Preview Edit:
@Espsyoncheange...what about TWIE's posting is different? Examples?

There is literally zero town motivation in anything TWIE posts

There is zero scum motivation in anything TWIE has posted.

Bullshit.

By not scumhunting, he can't get "caught" by having bad or unpopular reads, he leaves zero associative tells, he stalls the game because someone will notice this. Someone else will say well there's nothing scummy in the void of nothingness he's posted.

I have said this like five times and you've never engaged this point at all.

It's beyond frustrating at this point.

Wisdom if you've responded to this point, could you direct me to it?

Really, you don't remember their big fight. I distinctly recall you doing nothing and encouraging that fight because one of them had to be scum.

No, I kept telling they are both town. But fucking twist some more facts.

Could you link the game so we can find out once and for all why you guys are disputing a provable point without providing the facts to back it up?

singer are you really asking me if I have replied to a non-point?

All of Titus's bullshit are Titus's make-believe. TWIE has nowhere tried to stall and has nowhere rejected to produce reads.

What about it is a non-point? She makes a very good point about how it's very easy for scum to just coast by and if by happenstance get caught, their team is safe. You say he's "no where stalled or no where denied producing reads" but where is he doing it voluntarily? Where's the transparency? What lack of scum motivation specifically made you think he was town?

You two combined for 1500+ posts in that game

What. I saw one post where Titus said that she could catch Wax if he's scum, and not to worry. Interesting.

Also, from a cursory glance it seems like Wisdom did more clarifying/analysis of each player 1 by 1 in depth than in this game. This game Wis has yelled for people to join his wagon pretty much,

different game different player list I suppose

What was the point in bringing this up if you were just going to dismiss it with "different player list beep boop". What makes the difference? Why should that make a difference?

What about it is a non-point? She makes a very good point about how it's very easy for scum to just coast by and if by happenstance get caught, their team is safe. You say he's "no where stalled or no where denied producing reads" but where is he doing it voluntarily? Where's the transparency? What lack of scum motivation specifically made you think he was town?

How about you show me where he purposefully stalled or refused to produce reads, with a clear intent of achieving what Titus and apparently you too claim?

Is there a reason you keep sluffing the burden of proof onto other people? It seems like you're incapable of proving your points outside of "no YOU do it" and when people are being accommodating, you dismiss it as...what? "I don't believe you because you don't agree with me"? If you're really claiming to be the great scum hunter you are, you should probably work on your ability to get people to believe you.

Is there a reason you keep sluffing the burden of proof onto other people? It seems like you're incapable of proving your points outside of "no YOU do it" and when people are being accommodating, you dismiss it as...what? "I don't believe you because you don't agree with me"? If you're really claiming to be the great scum hunter you are, you should probably work on your ability to get people to believe you.

Are you listening to yourself?

You are claiming that you agree with Titus that TWIE did something scummy. YOU have to show me where he did it, I can't show you where he didn't.

No. I'm not agreeing with her about TWIE because I couldn't be fucked to go back and look; I'm saying she has a point about what scum do and you're dismissing it as a "non-point" like it's not a valid scumhunting technique. I'm asking you to show me where you think he's town, not where he's not.

The burden of proof is on the persuader actually.

QFT.

You can fight lynches on all of the townreads you want, but you'll have to prove why you think they're town and be convincing enough to prove it to others. Think you can handle the challenge?

Preview Edit:
LOL.

I'm willing to lynch either one of you at this point.

vote: Sonic Boom

1.

We look at Singer's ISO and we see her generally avoiding wagons that come to lynch range. That's consistent with her attitude that she doesn't want to push Wisdom because it would result in a fight. Right now, I feel Wisdom slot is an easy mislynch if anyone could make a case beyond moonlogicky asshole but Singer doesn't want to be scrutinized herself.

2.

First, we take a look at her Oversoul read. She says that Oversoul is different from Signs and Void. It's a total departure. That's because she has not been here. Town and Scum have motivation to scumhunt here, yet she throws it out here to create a narrative. Most of her early game votes fit this and later developed into baseless wagons (Espy included).

3.

Singer's concerns are selectively displayed. She somehow thought I could have been buddying her at one point, yet she systemically ignores how far up her ass HH is.

4.

She scumreads TWIE in a post that I quoted where she's chastizing people for not voting TWIE. She defends my push on TWIE asking Wisdom to give reasons why TWIE is town. They engage like that for several posts. Then its Al of a sudden TWIE is not a scumread. She could vote me or Sonic Boom.

5.

So logically, you would expect her to vote the person who she had reads she disagreed with. Nope. She votes the person she's QFTing just awhile before.

6.

Now, she clings to this narrative of me being dramatic and theatrical to scumread me.

7.

Her reads are opportunistic, inconsistent, and change to whatever she can support.

1. What wagons other than yours at the beginning were in lynch range? There was a flash wagon on Ricastle that I wouldn't have been on, you're right! What else?

2. So...Oversoul is playing the same as S&V? I don't understand this point. What narrative am I painting? Someone else mentioned Oversoul hates playing scum, so what do you make of that?

3. HH hasn't been buddying me, wtf? If anything they

haven't

been, to the extent that Ceph was uneasy about me and Cheet keeps saying how paranoid of me he is. Where do you get buddying from that?

4. I defended your push to the extent that I didn't agree with Wisdom's excuses for not explaining his reads at the time and felt he needed to justify them. That was a push on Wisdom, not a support of TWIE. If you bothered to read my catchup, you'd see where I gained a townread on TWIE myself.

5. Again, you hadn't addressed my concerns and I was tired of waiting for you so I voted you for pressure and have since then not found a reason to move my vote.

6. I see you disagree with your overreaction of my V/LA comment and continue to not address it like an adult.

7. Meh, I don't disagree here.

[singersigner]

unless Titus was afraid MS wouldn't do it right while she wasn't around.

did you just insinuate that I am bad as scum here? to "not do it right when Titus wasn't around" "shifty"?

you were on Westeros Circlejerk, and that point should not even have come from you.

how are you even attacking Titus with this? I fail to understand?

maybe i'm just butthurt that she made this comment.

but, yeah, that trailing sentence was awful. its essentially calling us scummy for something that is not only out of game, null, but also hardly plausible given her meta information that she is privy to.

What meta information am I privy to? You fell off the wagon hard in the nightless, and couldn't figure out your shit in Ori so does it not stand to be reasoned that you might not be able to hold your own in a hydra as the game gets down to the nitty gritty? I mean, admittedly I've had to hold Glork back as town because he was leading us down the path of destruction, but as I was clearly scumreading you guys at the time, obviously I would read that as her not trusting you. In any case, I admit it was a low blow and I apologize. I'm not scum, though, so you can either keep making up reasons I was attacking your slot/hydra for being scum, or admit that if you're town, I'm not wrong about what I'm witnessing here.

[singersigner]

hydrate: Psyche

Preview Edit:

@Sonic...Titus literally just told me to fuck myself if I couldn't handle your explanation of V/LA... What about a heated low-blow is scummy and why would I admit that as scum instead of just continuing to push it as being your problem instead of mine? I said ONE THING that was irrational about Metal Sonic and I am woman enough to admit it wasn't worth bringing up without proof. When are you going to admit you're being 100% irrational about the way you're attacking me? Oh wait, you can't because you're scum just like in S&V. Sorry, not sorry.

And I know you were town in Ori, I was bringing up my meta of you which is of both and town sides, seeing that you can fall apart and that if Titus was going V/LA before addressing my questions then I didn't see why you couldn't unless she didn't trust you to do it while she couldn't be around to babysit. That's what I was saying. And now I think of it, it's not even a low blow. You're trying to convince me I was out of line for saying that when I have proof it's something any sane person could feel about being your hydra partner and looks scummy because neither of you cared enough to follow up on my concerns with Titus before deciding I was scum because...Wisdom said so??? You still haven't even addressed what made you think I was scum in the first place and now it just looks like you're rationalizing your read on me because I caught you. Ahoy! Signs and Void detected!

and although i have been keeping up with the thread i've been more sloppy recently.

i don't know what triggered the singer/titus V/LA argument in the previous page.

seems like it came out of nowhere.


whatever.

You should probably read the fucking context if you're going to start spouting I'm scum for it, but you probably feel committed and can't back out now.

[singersigner]

Are. You. Fucking. Kidding. Me.

You did a 180 on me before you went V/LA without addressing my concerns. No where did you ever say why or where that happened! I called you out on it and you FLIPPED THE FUCK OUT. This is exactly what you did with FormerFish in S&V except with yourself. You're saying that my whole fucking argument revolves around something YOU BROUGHT UP YOURSELF.

[singersigner]

but you probably feel committed and can't back out now.

another low blow again


seriously, now every time you mention "Signs and Void" against Titus I want to reach through the screen and slap you

you are scumreading my slot, and you have access to one of the juiciest pieces of my scum meta, if you genuinely believe that my slot is scum you would utilize it against us as well


but you are not.

almost every single attack on my slot is directed towards Titus head, like, hello???

i am thinking right now that it is clear that i am obvtown and you are refusing to acknowledge this read for whatever reason

Can you explain to me why YOU think YOU'RE obvtown? What am I missing from the Nightless game??

If you think that's a low blow then maybe reign in your hydra partner a bit lest you be called a hypocrite.

Preview Edit:
@Bert...any thoughts on the singer/Titus posts that you read?

[singersigner]

considering your lack of pushes against me specifically even though you have one of my best (or to put it better, most effort) scum meta, yeah, if you have no problem against me, then i'm obvtown.

UGH.

basically if you were genuinely scumreading my whole slot as THE ULTIMATE VILE SCUM (which shouldn't happen, but blah), OR if my slot was GENUINELY VILE SCUM, you would have picked up stuff from my nightless as well as stuff from titus. double confirmation.

but we're town, so you having no issues with me should be a hinter than this entire argument is barking up the wrong tree?


i mean, great and all you caught titus in S&V and I respect you for it, but don't be like a certain player who was sooooooooooo confident she caught someone in a certain game and is soooooooo confident that someone was scum again and tunnelled without regard to the town signs and eventually was proven wrong.

gosh

stop lowblowing

I mean...I didn't really read the nightless because I didn't need to read two explosive games. All I heard was Zar bitching about it...

[singersigner]

You did a 180 on me before you went V/LA without addressing my concerns.

oh yeah, that was a fake VLA, in case you didn't know

people beg for less spam, we are only the kindest to give them, but

nope

I DIDN'T CALL IT A FAKE V/LA WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS SMOKING AND PLEASE GIVE ME SOME SO I CAN DEAL WITH THIS HORSESHIT.

[singersigner]

There's only one thing from Titus that I'm holding on to as maybe I'm wrong and I don't really want to say it because it's personal meta from other people, but yeah, I'm scumreading your slot 100% because of her, so unless you can explain what I'm missing about your meta, then the read stands.

it was a fake V/LA. i am telling you now.

and we made a giant wall post before that. did you miss it? it did mention our trajectory on you

Are you fucking with me right now? Because it's not funny.

And yes, I did read your wall of reads, and I saw where you were going with me. It happened after I voted you, which I pointed out in 3608. It didn't explain where your trajectory was before I voted you, which is where the seemingly 180 on me went.

[singersigner]

unvote

Singer, we both town read you before that vote. Your vote was so epically inconsistent with your TWIE push and Wisdom conflict, it made me 180. I already said that when I unvoted TWIE and had to talk with Sonic.

I mean...I legitimately thought you were town until your 180 on me that looked like a huge OMGUS in reaction to my vote without explaining why you ever townread me in the first place...because you kept saying I was town without giving reasons and then at the first excuse to vote me you did...it didn't make sense. And then you really overreacted with your V/LA thing, which I

still

don't understand, and am still not sure if Metal was messing with me because it wouldn't make sense to make it up based on your legitimate reason... I'm kind of stuck here, and do you see why?

[singersigner]

Lol, what about lynching Wisdom is easy?

[singersigner]

787 and 797 from Titus/Sonic...what made you decide I was “obvtown” between these posts?

did this get answered yet, i actually care about it

Don't care to check if this was answered before. Singer was pretty town, and still is. The comment about the VCA (which is shit to do day 1) is a pretty obvtown thing to say. Plus people were recognizing Singer as town meaning obvtown.

The only thing to give me pause on that is you. I am aware of the value of repetition, so asking many different sources on why buddies or townbeards are town is helpful. I don't see why or how this could be important to you in another sense.

Oh ffs this post was what I was looking for the whole time and missed.

I wasn't factoring in the fact that other people were reading me as town and that affected Titus' opinion. I just saw that I hadn't really posted anything significant but all of a sudden the read was more substantial.

Ironically enough I only found it because I was reading through HH's ISO to find the posts about Espy I thought looked like bias. *sigh* After all of that...

[singersigner]

actually just thought of one game where i saw him lynched. he was scum though (newbie game). and another game where i was scum with him (old micro) where he got lynched, but that was cos my play gave him away

and yeah i kinda think Wisdom (what a name) is more likely town than anything cos hes scumhunting and going on those tunnels

without any weird as heck whiplash-type reactions when things dont go his way

, kinda already said that. just pure stubbornness.

would feel like 90% sure in a normal game, but this isn't normal.

What do you mean by the bolded? If I'm understanding you correctly I'd point out that he seems pretty bitchy when things don't go his way. Like when the people he wants hydrated aren't being hydrated, or when he can't get the wagon he wants, or when people generally just dismiss the things he says. I'm not saying that's out of character for him, but you seem to think it is?

[singersigner]

AP, you don't get it. Singer's think there is akin to "I am not going to say you suck...but you suck."

She's saying that I cannot go VLA to deal with my shit without it being strategic.

Then she gets upset with me calling her out for that low blow.

It's not just me she does that with. She's been playing me and Wisdom against each other like a fiddle.

I.
Did.
Not.
Say.
That.
Are.
You.
Fucking.
[insert vulgar word of choice here]

Yes, ok, "decide" was a poor choice of words, so I AM SO SORRY IF THAT CAUSED ALL OF THIS DRAMA. But how can you still fucking argue that 1. I did it on purpose, and 2. that it justified your response, and 3. didn't justify MY response to your response? I'm at least willing to accept it as a misunderstanding but you still harping on it makes me feel like I was right about you this whole argument and now you're just using it as a means to fire me up because you think people will see it as scummy. JUST LIKE IN SIGNS AND VOID WHOLEY FUCK HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS BEFORE.

vote: Sonic Boom

[singersigner]

Spoiler: HH response to Espy

Or are you going to try to spin this as you having another terrible town game? Man I can't wait to see that!

"Guys Esp was so obvious scum and I mad he flipped town".

Blame me just like you blamed Ricastle! Here's a hint for you. There is one problem in common with both mislynches. I'll let you figure out the rest.

i dont think you actually believe wisdom is scum

you just got pissy at him and changed your tune

Even if you are in fact town, you don't look like a town player. That much is just about objective fact.

Tell me all about why you're obvtown Espwhatever. Since it's so obvious.
Give it to me in three concise points.
-Cheet

I wouldn't want to burden you with any sort of critical thinking. Like "why would scum try to lynch a pro-scum player in Wisdom?" or "why is Bone so frustrated if he's scum?" No, no, no, Cheet, Ceph, please continue to do what you do.

a) genuine anger
b) genuine anger

i dont see the problem

Like, just hold on for a fucking second with the dumb flailing bullshit.

Are you scumreading Bacon and Egg or not?
Because the manner in which you're engaging them and mocking them seems like you think that they're wrong town vs malicious scum.
-Cheet

I'm sure you're going to dismiss all my explanations because you think I'm scum, (incidentally why I ignored your read when it lacked substance and votes) but sure I'll play ball.

i) Not my post or read, I don't feel for him one way or another
ii) It sat on Ricastle and then on Wisdom, but sure let's call those nothing votes. I'm sure there was a period in which we were voting no one, and that happens. We also weren't voting someone this day phase until recently.
iii) Yeah immediately when wgurts made that post I yelled at him for it in our hydra PT. Oversoul doesn't post enough for me to say one way or another it was a relatively minor thing.
iv) Because when players have the same thought processes as me I tend to find them town.
v) Because I'm all for getting rid of players that are a liability and or just unpleasant to play with. Go ask Ceph what I did with shos last game.

And the TWIE vote is again because he is an unpleasant liability at best, and scum at worst. I actually felt he was just scum yesterday, I'll admit he is slowly trending in a more positive direction so we'll see how that goes.

Also, you being like "I CANT ANSWER HALF OF THESE QUESTIONS" does very fucking little to quell any kind of wariness I have about any issues related to them.
How can you call yourself obvtown when you're admitting in this post that other people in your hydra have said things that are bad?
How does that make any sense?
You still need to get your hydrapartners to address literally most of what I was asking you here.
I wanted to understand your thought process in general and came away just feeling kind of sick to my stomach with how dodgy and indirect all of this was.
-Cheet.

If you don't want to engage me right now, fine. Whatever.
Just tell your hydraheads to eventually answer my questions here and to walk through their thought processes and I'll read over your ISO again with those answers in mind.
And if I come away feeling like all of this was a bullshit flailfest to knock cred away from people pushing you, I'm gonna push this again and I'm just going to ignore you screaming about how obvtown you are. -.-
-Cheet.

Before going on.

Wgeurts is busy IRL right now and so am I.
Also, I've never hydra'ed before this game.
These things may explain our inconsistency and other things. Even if it sounds like a lame excuse, it's actually true.

Couldn't possibly care less about inconsistency.

Okay, let's talk. You're on our wagon and I, personally, don't think keep repeating "we're town" would change that. I'm still scumreading Bacon&Egg. Also Psyche, regardless of anyone's opinion. As for TWIE... I've just checked it and he seems to post differently since he got out of the widely scumread player's list.

So I could not possibly disagree with your reads more, and no shit he posts differently now that he's not being attacked in literally 60% of posts in the thread.

Most of his early posts are "reactive".
Around 1500 the posts became shorter and emptier, with few exceptions. Also, around 1700 (eg. 1702) he started to be "off-offensive", I mean, calling others aßhole, which is interesting because he was much peaceful earlier, when Sonic wanted to WotC him. Above 1900 we can find almost no content.
I can add that I saw him another game before. He was town and much more "less-involved".

You are really good at saying absolutely jack shit!

-Ceph

So all of these responses are Wisdom-esque in their inability to engage with someone with doubt to their alignment. It seems as though you've made your decision and so nothing will appease you.

Again, I'll reiterate my bias because I feel like I agreed with somethings they had to say about Wisdom's attack on me, so...bias acknowledged.

[singersigner]

#3897 is a perfect example. I am going to say "gee my word choice was bad" but you're still scum for calling me out.

Was it that word that made you think I was doing it on purpose? Because it didn't seem like either of us got it until AP pointed it out. You certainly didn't until he did.

[singersigner]

I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to that. I'm still post-making the last 20 pages of D1 so I can look back at them.

You know.

SINCE I'M STILL SITTING AT MY COMPUTER ENGAGING IN THIS GAME GOING ON HOUR FOUR NOW.

Ugh, it's not even worth it at this point, and I don't know why I let people like them get under my skin so much.

I think reasonable town will be reasonable town and see the argument for what it is and make their decision accordingly. Really interested in hearing what ZZZX has to say about it.

[singersigner]

@Bert...any thoughts on the singer/Titus posts that you read?

none that I'd like to share with you right now! mwahahahahaha! ill enjoy my sidelining right now because damn it feels good!

I'd prefer you didn't because it's people like you who are actively letting the game go to shit without committing to a stance on something. You voted for me, fine, I get that you think I'm scum, but in light of recent events, it would really be awesome if you could keep this game progressing and stop taking pleasure in my pain. Has anything peeked your interest? What do you think of the stances other people are taking with regards to me, Wisdom, Titus at the moment. Do you agree that if we're all town scum are just sitting by and letting it happen much like you're admitting to doing? If you still think I'm scum do you think my team is defending me, avoiding me, what? What do you think of Titus' misplaced assumption of my ill-intent, and her reaction?

I have also stated Singer has been pushing me v Wis for awhile. Also, I love how Singer paints me as unreasonable yet doesn't realize that goes totally against S and V. Hahahaha.

I've said before that I suspect you'd have to change your strategy. But you were being unreasonable with regards to your scumread of me...so...it doesn't go against my experience of that game?

[singersigner]

Actually, I never full on pushed you in S and V as scum.

That's true (and I was sooooo pissed at everyone for not seeing it!). But I assumed that's because you didn't have another scum team so knew I was town. Here I think you think you've genuinely latched onto something but aren't thinking it through rationally because you're scum in a multiball and don't need or want to.

vote Oversoul

hydrate AP

oversoul said he'd replace out ages ago

I could go back to Oversoul. I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on the recent pages with me and Sonic Boom first, though. And also randomigets' vote on me after not having posted for over three days and admitting to not having really read much. That was cool, too.

since when is oversoul a she?

Relevant!

[singersigner]

But I get it. It's easier to start a random wagon on Mario or ZZZX but harder to directly hop onto singer's counterwagon.

Is everyone who doesn't want to lynch me scum?

[singersigner]

Who else that doesn't want to lynch you did I call scum, singer?

Once more you are trying to belittle me and you fail miserably.

I mean, you're implying that it's easier to start a wagon on a lurker than lynch someone who you want lynched, even though he's not the only person specifically choosing not to lynch me, yet the only person you seem to have a problem with right now. I was trying to figure out what that comment was all about.

I thought you weren't going to engage with me, though. That's frustrating...I was really hoping that'd be true. Though it's funny, if you keep up, it won't be as difficult to get you lynched as I would've thought. You're playing directly into scum's persona of repeating the same things over and over hoping town will pick up on it, which is hilariously enough the same thing you accuse me of. I wouldn't be surprised if you and Sonic Boom were on the same team, even!

[singersigner]

I'll take it!

[singersigner]

I mean, I know I'd be playing into scum's mislynch hands, but I'm not even sure if their priority is to mislynch or find actual scums. I don't even know if they have nightkills at this point. I don't care, even! I just want this bitching to stop and if my flip helps Wisdom shut the fuck up, I'm totally down and won't even be offended by it.

[singersigner]

I don't even know if they have nightkills at this point.

Oh. It happened. The towniest post in the thread just happened.

rofl. Yeah, that's not fakeable at all.

Yeah, AP...why did you immediately jump to it being the towniest of towns? Even I can admit that's fakeable...

[singersigner]

I just want this bitching to stop and if my flip helps Wisdom shut the fuck up, I'm totally down and won't even be offended by it.

HOW just HOW the fuck can't people see this is scum? A few posts ago she was faking confidence and insisting that I won't be able to lynch her, that there's not even a wagon on her, yet now she is fucking okay with being lynched!

How the fuck can't you guys see she is just giving you what you want to see?

You can't keep bullying people around and complaining that "one mislynch and boo hoo now people won't listen to me!" if you've proven wrong again. Maybe then you'll have to change your strategy and either become more obvious as scum, or keep going the way you're going and never achieve your objective. It's not that hard to figure that out.

Preview Edit:
lol, Psyche...

[singersigner]

You can't keep bullying people around and complaining that "one mislynch and boo hoo now people won't listen to me!"

if you've proven wrong again

. Maybe then you'll have to change your strategy and

either become more obvious as scum, or keep going the way you're going and never achieve your objective

. It's not that hard to figure that out.

And then she replies with this nonsense and completely dodges what she did. Of fucking course.

And nobody bats an eye.

What did I dodge? I said I'd be fine getting lynched and the bold is exactly why + what I'd get out of it.

[singersigner]

Why the fuck would you vote singer when you don't think she is scum?

Why does it matter if you genuinely think I'm scum and you genuinely think you'll get your scum lynch? It should be a win/win, right?

[singersigner]

No, I am proving Psyche is trolling me.

Does it matter if he's trolling you if it gets you your "scum" lynch? This is just looks like you have an agenda, not that you genuinely believe what you're saying...

[singersigner]

Once again you prove you completely twist what's happening in the thread to push YOUR agendas. Psyche has no fucking intention of voting you, why would he do it when he thinks you are town? He's just trolling me. So you are essentially asking why I don't accept a deal that doesn't exist.

You didn't bother testing that theory? You just assumed that was that. What's one more mislynch? I don't care, one of my strongest townreads doesn't care, I'm sure we could convince other people to not care if it meant either tabling your ego or proving your agenda because maybe you don't actually want to be proven wrong because you know that once I flip town, your credit goes out the window and you no longer have the power over the thread that scum wants.

Titus, do you not care about VCA in this instance? I'm more concerned that you're not advocating for better wagons for your VCA...if Psyche is a troll vote and I'm willing to vote myself...when you finally get a scum flip, wouldn't that mess you up?

[singersigner]

WISDOM MY FLIP WILL PROVE YOU WRONG REGARDLESS OF YOUR ALIGNMENT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE TOWN TO BE PROVEN WRONG WITH THE EGO AND DICK WAVING YOU'VE BEEN DOING IN THIS THREAD GEEZUS FUCK.

[singersigner]

WISDOM MY FLIP WILL PROVE YOU WRONG REGARDLESS OF YOUR ALIGNMENT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE TOWN TO BE PROVEN WRONG WITH THE EGO AND DICK WAVING YOU'VE BEEN DOING IN THIS THREAD GEEZUS FUCK.

But you just claimed that it's just an agenda and I don't believe in it!

I'm saying that your agenda is clearly to get me lynched but once I flip town, your credibility go out the window, so you would no longer have the power to push your agenda and would then be transparent to the rest of the world that you're scum.

That was the hypothetical in the scenario that you're scum which is far more likely than the fact that you are

actually

town and

actually

think I'm scum and

actually

want to scumhunt and get my so-called scum lynch.

[singersigner]

I'd be willing to lynch Oversoul, random, Bacon, Sonic, or maybe Generic, though less so.

[singersigner]

Do you think Psyche's scum Sonic? I'm on my phone so hard to look back at your reads list.

[singersigner]

Meaning she posts with such mind numbing tedium I can't bring up the energy to sift through the waffle to see if there is a point in any of the 600 posts she has made.

If the end game was to make her posts so unreadable people abandon it then mission accomplished.

But I will not be voting for someone on a strong read from you wisdom after day 1. I relented when I actually had a fence sitty read on him and that was a fail, so I'm certainly not doing it with a player I have no read on because of waffle.

Are you exaggerating on purpose, because we've made like the same amount of posts, and you didn't even start in the game...

Sorry you can't follow my thought process. I can't really follow it right now either. Half the game is actively exploding this thread, and half this game has replaced out/lurked through the mist. I've never seen people take a stance and lynch lurkerscum, and I see people get away with it all the fucking time. It's getting annoying. I'd really like to see one of random or Oversoul lynched despite being ok with Wisdom or Titus getting lynched at this point.

Also, yeah, ika, why the empty Sonic vote without reading anything? Why'd you even replace in if you weren't going to try?

[singersigner]

@Generic, they are all teammates and generally if you're following my train of thought on two, I think you could get the third as well.

I think Oversoul as of now is voted for being VLA and I won't touch that. She is supposedly coming back or replacing out today. If she does another stall, only then would I be on board to lynch Oversoul because the stall could be alignment indicative. I am not about to lynch Oversoul for going to a friend's wedding.

This is the same hyperbolic defense you gave when FormerFish underperformed in S&V. Can you not objectively see what Psyche pointed out? That he's been gone and underperforming for far longer than his V/LA.

[singersigner]

Point of clarification...I never reread. I just...read on the first place.

And yeah, when I'm at a computer I'll point out exactly where Oversoul avoided answering why he thought I was town for no reason, and where he'd disappear for days at a time WITHOUT going on V/LA, or how he hasn't even really tried to scumhunt but kind of interject here and there. Will be jn a couple of hours, though.

[singersigner]

Not spoilering because I think people need to read them. This is 16 posts, none of which are content-filled/game-advancing. That's a third of his posts. The other posts aren't terrible but it's weird that Wisdom's called me out for no follow up without seeing Oversoul's lack of follow up. I'd feel differently if Oversoul made a point out of actually keeping up or trying before he went on V/LA since a wedding is something I think you'd have advanced notice for?? The last quote I quoted even says V/LA doesn't mean gone entirely. Twice he went without posting almost to or within prod range. This is vastly different than the Oversoul who kept up with S&V and came in guns blazing ready to be transparent and provide all he could.

Then show me the other games

Policy Lynches are so dumb and more often than not land on townies

hmm... Maybe that was an MD post and not a game post. I still have PTSD about Pokemon/Signs and Void

VOTE: Angry Bros

Stop shirking your responsibilities

Is Mollie a part of the Sonic hydra too? I will commit seppuku if that is true. Don't know if I can deal with that much noise
Tammy you wound me, especially after Team Mafia

Rune - we should have done a hydra, it is the name of the game here

Did you and Bro have a falling out?

I'm not scum so you and Tammy need to get your eyes checked

15% of 500 is not much. Do 50%

How did you know my life was basically alcohol LoL and Mafia? d:

lol

Lol.
That game was hilarious in an unfortunate way

Ceph, Rune faked the strength of his scum read on me (town) so scum would leave him alive
It is a joke about a game we had

Another joke about that game is Rune was wrong about everything.

This is hilarious

holy shit just read 2012 Scummies game

rage so much rage

Singer, your posts felt townie

I guess giving reads is coasting
In which case, yes I will be coasting all game

Gnight

Oversoul, are you inebriated right now? You've missed people asking you to explain your capitualtion read on me several times. You also completely missed Rune's refusal to give reads. Your last post makes zero sense.

I haven't really read anything since Friday

Ok. Actually rereading now

sorry school and other real life issues right now will post friday (hopefully)

wow

literally the two people I wanted to play with replaced out

leaving me with my dick out, guys
thanks

may join them if rl doesn't improve in the next couple of days because right now I'm definitely stalling this game/being dead weight

unvote:
hydrate: singer

VLA doesn't not mean gone completely
Was genuinely curious? Why so aggressive
How I scumhunt is through other people's suspicions on me

[singersigner]

Also, I'd still like to know how randomidget gets off popping up out of no where, placing a vote with no commentary on what's been going on, and then disappearing again.

One of those two seriously needs to be lynched today.

unvote
vote: Oversoul