Saki Achiga-hen episode of side-A Mafia [OK]

[Varsoon]

Hi guys
I'm town this side around, gonna avoid RVS for my own health.
:3

[Varsoon]

That's kinda sad.
Voided, you should've qualified that you're town.
It's effective 100% of the time when it works.

[Varsoon]

I actually factually love Cabd and have secret aspirations to be as good as Cabd can be sometimes.
But, uh, I'm also not gonna just stroke 'em off and play sheep. We might end up butting heads, and that's okay.

I'm all for a short D1 here.
I'm terrible at large games. I don't think I've ever been proud of my town play in a large game. Some times I've gotten lucky, and other times things worked out, but most the time I shit the bed.
I'm also currently modding two games and in three games (including this one). If I am not here or if my play feels a bit thin, blame that. I'm also trying to graduate, finish my graduate thesis, taking an independent study course, and reading nearly a book a day. My attention may be spread thin at times.

That said, I will have a laptop open, refreshing mafiascum during every waking hour. I take these games as a commitment. I will try to keep my posts concise and kept to a minimum. I don't want this game to become too long-winded or fluff-ridden. I'm also trying to shape my own play up to be less, well, terrible.

I feel like we should use this day to figure out where player's engagements are, mostly. I think we should lynch the weakest link and then use the mod-confirmed info from there to move forward. That said, yes, let's hunt scum--so long as we can avoid a 100+ page day 1.

[Varsoon]

A quick note:
This is one of the few games I've signed up for despite having no idea what the flavor is.
I signed up 'cus I love the moderation and this playerbase and this site.
I am a cute anime girl; I assume pretty much everyone else is, though, too.


I think that we should keep setup and flavor speculation to a minimum, at least during early game and especially during D1.
Given the large, closed setup and the fact that games have been more and more stridently built around keeping flavor from breaking the game, I believe it's best to just play with what we've got in front of us.

I understand the gesture to lynch out notsci, but I'd rather let a few other people post and avoid a strict policy lynch. I feel like PLs give scum far too much smokescreen.

P-Edit:
I'm trying to be better. I know, my shit flies in scum games, but as town I only ever win when I luck out and the way I've been playing has typically kept me from being regarded as a worthwhile town voice.

I do not want to join the Cabd wagon because I generally value Cabd's voice in games that I've seen him in. It would be like losing an IC player first day in a newbie game.

[Varsoon]

I have been waiting to make my hot blooded return to Mafia for a while now so of COURSE the mod opens the fucking game while I'm on the can.

VOTE: notsci

Until he inno child tells and then proceeds to be left alive till day eight billion anyways.

This, coupled with how others jumped on, led me to feel that way.
As for Cabd, sure, early stuff so far hasn't been stellar, but at least there is early stuff so far. If I'm voting anyone as early as RVS, it's to hope to get them posting.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: singersigner

Sorry, gotta make it through day 1 this time!
Winrar is a spectacular program and I use it to manage my zip and rar files all the time.

[Varsoon]

What part of my play reminds you of advance wars?
As far as I know, I haven't slipped in a fashion that allows scum-team a super-easy lynch on me.

[Varsoon]

I dunno, I sometimes do things without much motive as scum. People get too caught up in finding motives and when they can't find mine, they go, 'Oh! Guess he's just being Varsoon!' and I get a pass sometimes.

Anyway;
I was asking because I wanted to know the specifics of how your read was being informed. :3
I think it might be quite easy to townread someone and cite another one of their games as basis for it, so I wanted to drill that a bit and get to what was so similar and 'town' about it.

P-EDIT:
Notscience is a member of the Benjamin Applebaum hydra.
I also use 7zip sometimes.

[Varsoon]

@KuroMatsumi: Notscience has been a policy lynch in previous games and cabd's post 8 coupled with the ways in which players joined without much input had me leaning that the wagon was likely a quick RVS wagon and may have some members who are voting it for policy reasons. I don't any of this reflects on Benjamin Applebaum's alignment or those of the people on the wagon, though, which bothers me a little bit. It's null. I like when things are more transparent and black and white.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Kuro

Your insistence that I didn't answer your question when I did is troubling.
Furthermore, your insistence on finding town-intent is also worth prodding a bit. What is 'town-intent' to you? Where do you see 'town-intent' elsewhere in this game?


<3 profgressor, hope that I can become liked for my play, too. :3


@Cabd: Why vote Lufan?
If it's for the sake of getting a response, it feels nebulous.
I'm sorry if this fire isn't hot enough, I'm cooking with coals here and they take awhile.

[Varsoon]

RE: Kuro's #99:

I also explicitly pointed out Cabd's vote where he said something along the lines of voting Notsci until confirmed innocent.

But, hey, it's okay to ignore that for the sake of arguing against me, right?


@Pie: It's okay to call me scum, but I dunno about Prof yet. The flirtation is there, but not quite blushworthy yet.
I'd like to know why, though. Why's always a good one.

P-EDIT:
Woah, Prof is doing the same thing as me, but talking about our flirting less. D:

[Varsoon]

I honestly don't understand how you're trying to build this push against me, given that the posts in question are in the actual thread and you're explicitly ignoring the cabd quote and the bolded sections.

@KuroMatsumi: Notscience has been a policy lynch in previous games and

cabd's post 8 coupled with

the ways in which players joined without much input had me leaning that the wagon was

likely a quick RVS wagon

and may have some members who are voting it for policy reasons. I don't any of this reflects on Benjamin Applebaum's alignment or those of the people on the wagon, though, which bothers me a little bit. It's null. I like when things are more transparent and black and white.

I have been waiting to make my hot blooded return to Mafia for a while now so of COURSE the mod opens the fucking game while I'm on the can.

VOTE: notsci

Until he inno child tells and then proceeds to be left alive till day eight billion anyways.

This

, coupled with how others jumped on, led me to feel that way.
As for Cabd, sure, early stuff so far hasn't been stellar, but at least there is early stuff so far. If I'm voting anyone as early as RVS, it's to hope to get them posting.

I even talked about how it was null and why it bothered me. I don't see where you're reading 'scum intent'.

[Varsoon]

@Kuro: An excuse for... what?
The wagon on you has formed because of what I've outlined--your reactions to my response fly in the face of the reality of the game.

@Pie: Were your posts the ones calling out the rhetoric? 'Ass-covering' can come from town, too. That's null. Also, players being unsure and using 'probably' in their pushes feels pretty null too, given we're in a large, closed setup. There's likely a lot of people who are going to be unsure of what's what.
Basing reads solely off of those things and putting a lot of confidence in them seems foolhardy at best.

[Varsoon]

@Kuro: It was a good reason to sheep and made far more sense than my vote on singer (which came from just not understanding why Singer was voting me), and the points I brought against you as well as what I've asked has been wholly from me.

@Pie: I'm in the position that I know that you're wrong about me, which allows me to extend that to a rationalization that your proposed logic for parsing out scum and town has failed as applied to my slot. Following that, I can figure that your other reads that come from similar logic are likely to be just as flimsy.
It's not that you gotta start somewhere; you gotta step it up.

P-EDIT:

Spoiler: @Pie:

[Varsoon]

Well, if you'd like to actually engage with the game, I'll be around to do that.

[Varsoon]

Well you gotta have an opinion



Kuro's really strong-arming this.

[Varsoon]

Singer, you can try to deflect this more and more at me, saying 'bad vote' 'bad vote' or you can explain why you made your vote.
That's much more interesting to me.

[Varsoon]

RE: Singer:
I don't see why explaining my situation comes as an excuse to you. If anything, I'm letting people know why I may not be as active as they are used to me being in games we've shared before. I don't understand how that makes me scum, either. Furthermore, I'm clearly committing myself to this game. ISO me and you'll find that I'm engaged, thorough, and pushing my reads.
Yes, I know I didn't ask a question right when I voted you. I wanted to see what your response was solely based on a requited vote.

Feel free to blame me if you think I'm lurking or being super scummy. Don't give me flak for explaining my situation, though. I'm still striving to play well here and I don't expect a pass.

What I'm saying about strong voices is something I'll stick next to. I'd rather risk out a lynch on a weaker player D1 than potentially capsize a strong town voice. Furthermore, I think I made it fairly explicit that I would still be scumhunting despite that stance of mine, and that if one of those 'IC esque' players were deemed as scum by me, I'd still vote and push for them.

Your points fall short. I can't really call them scummy, because I can understand where you're coming from, but I also don't think they hold any real alignment-oriented merit.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, not to make a defense lufan's lackluster entry, but I think it's problematic to assume that failure to engage equals consciously avoiding engagement.
Why does it feel like so many players are trying to scum-read every little thing?
Feels disingenuous.

P-EDIT: But it fits the bill that Singer would sign on.

[Varsoon]

Didn't intend that as a dig/mudslinging. I'm saying that Singer's being consistent here, even if it is over something I disagree with.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: lufan

Better than anything else that's happening.

How is that better than anything else that's happening? Lynching a player because they have zero content?

Fixed that for you.
I'm glad that with the failure for my mislynch to take off, you've graduated to looking for a bigger fish.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, I was referring to the weird play coming from Kuro's slot that people have also noticed. I re-expressed those points and figured that the wagon was likely forming up because of them.
I guess it's cool to take things out of context nowadays.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, as in, y'know, the wagon formed.
It didn't form BECAUSE I made points about Kuro.
It formed BECAUSE of Kuro's play, which I have explained/outlined as scummy in my posts.

It's not fair enough to say that I'm definitely not taking credit for the Kuro wagon?
Do we really have to argue the intent of my own rhetoric?

[Varsoon]

Show me where someone says, "Nice wagon, Varsoon!" and I go, "Yeah, it was all my idea!"
Because that never happened, nor will it ever happen.
It's not a chicken/egg scenario. It is literally;
Kuro has scummy play.
People voted Kuro.
I noticed Kuro's scummy play. I voted Kuro.
I explained why Kuro's play was scummy.
In the post in question, I say the wagon formed around Kuro's play, which I've already explained/outlined as scummy.

That's the timeline of events here. I've not suggested otherwise. Suggesting that I did is a lie and a misappropriation of my play, especially since I've flat out denied it, too.

This is an argument that I won't be coming back to. This is my final word on it. Continuing to push this further will only produce fruitless back-and-forth and that's the last thing the game needs.

[Varsoon]

Just woke up, about to grab some lunch with a roommate, so I've gotta keep this short.

As far as people asking why I've voted the way I have, I do not need to elaborate. I've said all I need to say on those points. Further elaboration would just be masturbatory.
And no one needs that mess.

I'm still fine with my vote on Kuro. I'm confident that given Kuro's reaction to my pressure and the wagon in general equals Kuro scum. At the very least, that's my most confident read so far, so I'm keeping my vote there to reiterate that even on Page 13, that's where I'm putting my money.

Bins; Do not neighbor me.

Elbirn; I'm town. Remind me to smack you in post-game.

[Varsoon]

@Elbirn: I don't want to be in the Bins-hood for a variety of reasons I'm keeping to myself. I think the shot is better used on another player.
I'm gonna smack ya for thinkin' I rolled scum again, you loon. Read my posts!

I'm feeling that Bins and Singer are both town from their interaction.
Still happy with my vote.
I wonder about the lufan wagon and what lufan has to say.

[Varsoon]

Why are you voting for me again, Singer?
I don't want to call your vote a sheep of Nacho's, but it strikes me that way.
What'd you get out of your huge back and forth these last few pages?

[Varsoon]

I went silent because a huge discussion/pedantic back-and-forth broke out that didn't concern me.
Nacho comes in and votes for me without any elaboration and you quickly follow suit.
That kind of thing bothers me. It's as if to distance yourself from the last five pages or so, you're deflecting the game's momentum to a wagon on me.
And that's lame.

[Varsoon]

Okay, then. That's real helpful.
Would you like me to elaborate?
I... don't really see what insulting me does.

[Varsoon]

I did not see anything I felt worth commenting on. Rather, I felt that commenting on something solely for the point of commenting on it wouldn't add anything useful to the game. I don't want to fill an already expansive game with fluff-content.
When I don't have anything useful to say, I'm not going to come up with rubbish just to appease you.
Sorry.

@Chandra: I'm not saying a vote on me is derailing the game. I'm saying that Singer doubling down on Nacho's vote looks like a means of simultaneously moving from the last few pages of discussion and pushing that momentum into a wagon onto me. Furthermore, Singer's reasons for voting for me are insufficient, uninspired, and unsatisfactory on their own. I'm seeing it as a way for Singer to look like she's doing something and to shift momentum to me in a way that's scummy.
But, hey, I'm garbage and lame, so fuck what I've got to say, right?

[Varsoon]

Lol I'm doubtcasting, Fuck me, lol, I'm a shit player, lynch me lol

[Varsoon]

Fuck reading arguments or listening to logic or thinking with your head, just talk a lot of shit. That always works.

[Varsoon]

Sorry, it rubs me the wrong way when I'm being 100% about my play and players cross their arms, stuff their heads up their own asses, and through their muffled buttcheeks manage to proclaim, "That's something scum would say."

It marks a failure to engage with the game and reaffirms a really annoying bias.

@Singer: I've given you plenty of reasons to vote for Kuro. Shove off with that "You're not playing the game, get mislynched lol" rubbish.
The situation now is very different than the situation when you first voted for me, Singer. Nevermind the fact my wagon is composed differently, but this is also your second vote on me, after you sheepishly went back to kind-of-townreading me. Furthermore, your recent vote comes immediately after Nacho's and immediately after a huge back-and-forth between you and others. Like I explained before, the gamestate and momentum are different. Your vote here is different. The way you're pushing me and your insistence is really annoying. I'm trying my best to try to parse out if it's just you being frustrating or that's coming from a scum mentality, but I'm going to call you out on it nevertheless.

It bugs me that you're calling me a mislynch but voting for me at the same time.
How'about

you

step it up?

[Varsoon]

If you want to get Nacho's thoughts, why not ask Nacho?

[Varsoon]

singer, your votes make no fucking sense.

None of your posts make sense yet you still do it.

That doesn't really change the part about your votes, though.
Nice deflect?

[Varsoon]

I was expecting you to elaborate on your votes and make some defense of them, singer.
Y'know, I try to do that when people try to decry my play. I try to stick by what I do.

[Varsoon]

I don't want to clutter up the game, so I've tried to refrain from commenting on things as they happen, but;
Cabd, those reads are surprisingly lackluster.
I'd like you to elaborate on, well, pretty much all of them. At least a sentence would be fine?
I don't understand why you're pushing Lufan so strongly.
I don't get what puts Bins, Voided, and I in such a low boat and what makes farside, singer, chandra, kuro, and pie so strongly townread by you.
From where I am, I'd almost flip your entire reads-list.
Which, eh, may be indicative that we're not on the same team, here.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Cabd
At least until my 518 gets responded to.
Kuro, don't think this means you're off the hook.

[Varsoon]

I'm sternly against the Bins wagon/pushes.
I've got a strong townread on Bins here.
Fight me over it.

[Varsoon]

I actually quite like seeing Metal Sonic's posts. It always helps me to get a better read on him.
Baccano! Mafia just ended with a lynch on Metal Sonic's slot. I was one of the few players who, through reading what might seem like nonsense, was able to discern he was town. I should've pushed my gut read there stronger and insisted on it. Defaulting to reading his fluff as scum-fluff or discouraging his play is only going to inhibit us.

In my opinion, letting Metal Sonic continue to post unhinged while keeping a discerning eye on his content will make his alignment pretty clear.

[Varsoon]

Oh, I tend to have a spot of fun when playing with Sonic.
He actually thinks of the game very stridently and is quite a methodological player at times. I think you're underestimating how much thought he puts into the game. He has a very 'off-the-cuff' and casual posting style that seems to offend your sensibilities. I think you'd have an easier time having fun and reading him if you engaged with his play, rather than turning your nose up at it.

Profgessor's suggestion of 'getting rid of sonic now' is troubling, but, to be honest, I've been waffling a bit on Sonic's slot, myself. I'm leaning scum on him, but I need to look at more interactions from the slot to really tell. I'd honestly prefer 'getting rid of' someone that's far clearer in the red.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, sign me up.

[Varsoon]

I always remember that it's 'Cab'd because you're gonna take me for a ride.

[Varsoon]

Nice lie there, Pie. I disagree with the reads in 518 and ask for elaboration.
That's pretty different from the load that you're trying to push here.

[Varsoon]

So... how does "Your reads are the opposite of mine, which may indicate we're not on the same team" translate to, "You're reading me as scum therefore ALL YOUR READS ARE WRONG."

Because I don't ever call his reads 'wrong' in that post. Nor do I mention that he's scum-reading me.

[Varsoon]

You gonna come in here and push weak-ass play too, Chandra?
Because you might need to reconsider your understanding of the English language if you think "Those reads are surprisingly lackluster. I'd like you to elaborate on, well, pretty much all of them." is literally the same thing as "Those reads are wrong" and ESPECIALLY if you think that translates to "I'm town and you're reading me as scum therefore ALL YOUR READS ARE WRONG."

[Varsoon]

What was written was "I'd almost flip your entire reads-list."
Which means not every read would be the opposite
Which means a lot of the reads in the middle are still in the middle
Which means you're trying

really

hard to misrepresent me here.

Good try, though.

[Varsoon]

I don't really like it when players literally lie about what I wrote in posts, especially in Pie's case where he's trying to reaffirm a scum-read on me.

[Varsoon]

I could just take that as "Oh, these players don't understand what I made clear-as-day in my post and are just coincidentally taking parts out of context and reading me based on misunderstanding."


I'd rather err on the side of making my point clear, regardless.

P-EDIT:
Oh, cool, I'm glad that you're actually linking to post 116 now because you weren't in your post 860. You might understand how someone could misread that, right?
Your point against my 116 is also a misrepresentation anyway; I'm saying that I know the logic used to get a read on me is flawed and literally producing the wrong results, which keys me into the same logic being just as fragile elsewhere. I don't see how that says "ALL YOUR OTHER READS ARE WRONG BECAUSE I AM TOWN." Sorry?

I'm glad you tried to flip my snark around on me, but I literally teach English at the college level and I'm working on getting my PhD in digital rhetoric. I can still make mistakes, but I'm pointing out what's I'm seeing here. You're right to qualify what posts you were actually talking about, but don't give me shit for misunderstanding when you literally were not linking to 116 in your 860. Furthermore, I know that several people on-site aren't native speakers. Your whole comma-similar schtick could just as easily be read as "He is making this play or something similar in 518". I'm not wrong in pointing out that I am doing nothing of the sort in 518.

It's cool to be wrong, Pie, but it'll really bust my chops if you're wrong

and

scum.
And it was me--I'm the one who gave you a hard time for belief that someone's "opt-out" language was a good measure of reading a player.

[Varsoon]

Also, Pie:
It'd also be far more pleasant if you wouldn't hand-wave my play as 'AtE'.
I'd rather you engage with my play. I know, it can be hard. Bear with me.

[Varsoon]

Figured I could bait you into wasting your vote.


I'm sorry you can't read, Pie.

[Varsoon]

What post, Nacho?

[Varsoon]

Oh, nah, those are all fine observations.

[Varsoon]

Wasn't a fan of the Marquis wagon; not a fan of the Hermit wagon.
Chandra and Voided are my biggest pings on-wagon.
I'm still all for this Cabd thing.

I'm sorry I don't have much else to add here. I guess I'm feeling a bit better about Kuro's slot recently? I'm not really reading it as 'definitely town' like some people are, though.
Hum-ho.

[Varsoon]

I really don't like how he came out of the woodwork to push the Marquis wagon once The Hermit replaced in.
In my experience, when someone replaces in, usually wagons on that person dissipate--it seemed like an attempt to keep that from happening.
Before that, Voided was voting Nacho, but Nacho's been pretty transparent about their play and I don't really understand Voided's vote there either. Felt like part of a sensationalist kind of wagon that cropped up on Nacho--at the time, the Nacho wagon was at 5 with Xtoxm, Bitmap, Profgessor Emotion, Kuro Matsumi, farside22

He mentions earlier that Marquis has been a bit all over the place, but the timing of the vote here (after Marquis replaces out, not giving any real reasons for the Hermit vote) reads really foul to me.

So, I guess what bugs me most is that there's a lot of posts that look like they're making strong statements, but there's not really any vote movement until wagons get up to 5 votes on them. The common link is 5 votes and Profgessor being on both, but I'm more willing to chalk that up to coincidence.

inb4 Nacho calls my voice 'awkward' or whatever again.

[Varsoon]

Obligatory ego-stroking humorous image:


(I'm sorry Nacho. Ohio took a lot out of me.)

P-EDIT:
Go read 734, 740, 741, etc.
I'm slightly worried it might be scum-Nacho, but that's due to some weird gut-meta shit that I can't really explain. Re-evaluating the actual play here, it strikes me as town independent of that.

[Varsoon]

Nacho's explained his positions and reasons for voting in a way that makes clear sense. While his initial vote on me did not seem to have any clear intent, he later qualified why he was voting for me and made it clear. Since then, his machinations have had clear explanations. I don't find myself wondering why he's playing the way he's playing or why he's voting a player, because he's explained it and his explanation makes sense from a town mindset.

You said that cabd-town analyzing the game and cabd-scum analyzing the game have differences; What are those differences?

[Varsoon]

Not to veer into game-theory zone, but I try to figure out where people are on D1 just as much as the next guy. Expressing my 'null' and town reads is a way of not just expressing how I'm gauging the game, but also serves the added purpose of seeing how those players react to my stances.

D1 is almost all rhetoric anyway. Cutting it down hinders that.

I'd really like it if we could agree on a lynch soon, though. I guess the deadline is in 5 days. :/

[Varsoon]

Okay, so you've got nothing.
Thanks for being honest.

[Varsoon]

And that's what I mean about transparency.

[Varsoon]

As far as this game is concerned, it is nothing. Your privileged hidden information isn't helping anyone but you if it exists. If it doesn't exist, you're just fabricating reasons to read a person, which is far more likely, imo.

P-EDIT: Yayifications!

[Varsoon]

Voided's got no votes now that you're voting Cabd, I believe.

@Profgessor: ...so you can appear to be involved? This is useful as scum and as town, but tends to be scum-sided, or, at the very least, anti-town, because it denies info for town.
Your point in 990 also doesn't hold up. If you've got good reasons to read Cabd as one alignment over the other, share 'em.
I'm not privileging your read solely because you've played a bunch of games with the player. Unless you can show you've got something like a 100% read-rate on Cabd in your meta, can it.

[Varsoon]

There's people who marry and live with literal murderers for decades without knowing any better.
Again, if you can't give concrete reasons, then I am not going to privilege your read.
Furthermore, if you're not consistently correct in reading Cabd in games you can link to on-site, then I'm even more skeptical of your reasons.

[Varsoon]

Fantastic, but how do you know that you're not being manipulated into thinking he's not being manipulative here?
Oho.

[Varsoon]

Easier answer is that you're just scum and you're affecting a read for one of several reasons.

[Varsoon]

1000 GET

[Varsoon]

You're falling apart under scrutiny here.

[Varsoon]

No, Profgressor failed to give me a substantial reason for their read. I'm gonna drill them for it, and I'm gonna do it as much as I like.

But, yup, you got me, I finally got my dream wish of rolling scum with Nacho and this was how we decided to roll our D1!

[Varsoon]

Oh, good call with that vote, Profgessor. I call you out on your rubbish, you try to light a fire under me to rekindle the Varsoon wagon, and when I get mislynched you can blame it all on me giving you a hard time.

Try harder.

I

can

say that I will always share my reasons for reading a player the way I do. Withholding info is petty, elitist, scum-enabling, and anti-town. You're not a good enough player to win off of whatever rubbish info you're holding back, no matter what. Sorry, not sorry.

[Varsoon]

My bad, I should've qualified that statement; It's petty, elitist, scum-enabling, and anti-town to withhold info that can help find scum. Simply having a PR is nothing like having legitimate reasons for a read. Good try to derail the convo/point.


Eyy, I'm also scumreading Chandra.
VOTE: Chandra Nalaar
I wanna see how far this rabbit-hole goes.

P-EDIT:
How did you knoooooow?

[Varsoon]

I'm assaulting your logic in this game. Don't misrepresent my play as an attack on you. I'm sure you're a fine person independent of this game.

P-EDIT:
Hey, Kuro, join the Chandra wagon. It's good stuff.

[Varsoon]

You won't get a lynch on him anytime soon, though.
See, if you sheep out this Chandra thing and it goes tits up with a town flip, you can then be all AHA! This wagon WAS scum-lead!
And then maybe you can levy a lynch out on Nacho. Or me, probably.

[Varsoon]

But Kuro! If you don't get us lynched, then scum win!
Play your damn wincon!

[Varsoon]

I'm fucking invincible.

[Varsoon]

I dunno man, it's mostly gut. Chandra always jogs in mid-discussion to poop on things.
ISO Chandra, I guess? If you're not seeing it, I don't think I could do a good job to convince you.

[Varsoon]

Yup sorry Nacho Mamma, this Chandra thing is bust.
Back to Voided, because as Elbirn reminds me, it's a good wagon yo.
VOTE: Voided

[Varsoon]

@Singer: St. Constantine hasn't been super active on-site at all anyway. It's null at best.

@Chandra: <3 Heya


I've also got NachoParanoia, but that's just because he devastated me in a game awhile back and I've learned to never give him (or anyone) the benefit of the doubt.

[Varsoon]

Or Nacho can catch an investigate and we can all live happily ever after.
EZPZ

[Varsoon]

I got on Chandra 'cus Nacho wanted me there and I was scum-reading the slot.
I went back to Voided because the Chandra wagon wasn't going anywhere and Voided is legit scummy. If you recall, I was making plenty of points about Voided before Elbirn voted there.
Voided seems like the way to go.

[Varsoon]

I've got some earlier points about Chandra, I think.
Do you think sheeping people D1 is weird?

[Varsoon]

So...
It follows suit that I care way more about my Voided scumread, which I actually have articulated more points against.

[Varsoon]

HEAD BUMP.

Obviously, my read on Voided changed over the course of 400-something posts.
I didn't vote Voided there because I don't think we need a vanity wagon with the deadline approaching.

[Varsoon]

Once I realized that the Voided wagon could be a viable wagon for lynch instead of me just doing pointless pushes with my vote, I put it back on Voided.
It also helped that Elbirn brought some good anti-Voided points to the table.

[Varsoon]

Elbirn, that's what I'm saying--Chandra was quickly becoming a vanity wagon with no reasonable chance of being a lynch before the upcoming deadline.
You proved that Voided actually has a chance at being lynched in the time we have left.
I gave that my backing, to make it even more of a reality.

[Varsoon]

...because we'd be that obviously scummy in the game-thread if we were partners?
You're thinking too hard on the first-level, Kuro.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, it's crazy, Kuro, it's as if my reads change as the game goes on, like I'm some sort of human who can change their mind and do more than one thing.
But, hold on, that's crazy! Clearly, I must have some sort of agenda! Some sort of -scum- agenda!

You can talk game all day, but it won't change that I'm town here. :/

[Varsoon]

WOAH ITS NUTS ITS LIKE I VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO IS SCUMMY AND THERE IS A GOOD CASE FOR THEM BEING SCUM AND ITS LIKE WOAH
THERE ARE ACTUALLY OTHER VOTES ON THIS GUY?

Do you shit your pants when D1 in any game ends and you find out later that the D1 lynch had tons of town on it?
Like, what the FUCK were all those TOWN doing on the LARGEST WAGON!?

I just can't handle the nonsense, Kuro. I CAN'T DO IT.

[Varsoon]

You're awfully confbiased here, which is particularly annoying, because nothing I write will change your opinion.
Everything I have to share is something you don't want to read.

Stop trying to keep me on the table as a viable lynch. I'm not.
Not today, and not tomorrow, and not the next day either.
Stop trying to get town lynched and diversify your game-scope.

[Varsoon]

Stating that you're clearly biased on scum-reading me isn't calling names.
If other people don't think so, they'll say so.
The whole game is open for people to read, just as you said.
It's really clear how weak and awkward your points on me are as well as how your tunnel on me is keeping you from engaging with the rest of the game.

Sorry if you take that personally.

[Varsoon]

Sometimes you gotta sift through the shit to find that nugget of gold, nacho.

[Varsoon]

Well, if you want better than that on D1, people are gonna have to play a whole lot shittier.

[Varsoon]

I also think Chandra is scummy, but I really want this voided wagon and dropping off of it with less than 3 days to deadline and no clear supporters seems like it'd just serve as a distraction.
You're preaching to the choir with me. You need to convince the other players in this game of Chandra scum and Chandra being a viable wagon in these last 2/3 days.

[Varsoon]

I'm torn.
Nacho, can we just lynch Voided today and sort Chandra tomorrow?

[Varsoon]

Appeals too spot-on, as I talked early-game about keeping stronger voices on-board.

I've got more thought put into the Voided wagon. I mostly don't like Chandra due to gut and I agree with your anti-Chandra points.

Again, I'm not the guy you need to convince. I'll hammer out a Chandra wagon if you can get people on-board. If you want me at the front of the wagon, sure, but like I said, right now I can't see it as anything but a distraction at day-end.

[Varsoon]

Trust me, if I could vote multiple people, I'd have a vote on Chandra as well right now.

[Varsoon]

Can't really add more now than what I've said in 971.
If that's not enough, eh, I guess I'll roll over for you. I don't wanna make a habit of this, and I know that now I'll have to deal with more Kuro-noise about us being obvious scumpals.
VOTE: Chandra

P-EDIT:
I think Voided is scum, dude.
Get with it.

P-P-EDIT:
Nacho with this appealing rhetoric, sheeesh.

[Varsoon]

Sonic push is weak.
Anyone with their salt
wait
worth their salt?
That's such a weird phrase.
Apparently, our word salary derives from the Latin salarium, (sal is the Latin word for salt). There is some debate over the origin of the word salarium, but most scholars accept that it was the money allowed to Roman soldiers for the purchase of salt. Roman soldiers weren't actually paid in salt, as some suggest. They were obliged to buy their own food, weapons etc. and had the cost of these deducted from their wages in advance. The earliest citation of the phrase that some have found in print is in The African Memoranda, a report of an expedition to Guinea Bissau, by Philip Beaver, 1805:
"Hayles has been my most useful man, but of late not worth his salt."

Huh.
Anyway.
Metal Sonic will make it to D2.
We'll know for sure if it needs rope by then, Xiao Xiao Buns or not.

[Varsoon]

We can only lynch so many people in one day, Chandra.
You're either on board or you're not.
But hey xtoxm wagon! Good on you.

@Profgessor: I think that Chandra's reaction to the last two pages is just as likely to come from survivalistic scum, as it's the only rational response to avoid being the end-of-the-day lynch. You can null-read it at best, but Chandra's answers don't make Chandra town.

[Varsoon]

I've seen Xtoxm's play in a few games recently and I really don't know to make heads or tails of it here.
I think it's reasonable that scum-chandra would be pushin it though.

[Varsoon]

That's what I'm trying to tell

you

, Profgessor!

@Chandra: No it isn't. You came in and half-assed a response because if you hadn't, you

definitely

would not survive.

[Varsoon]

You had a really great chance to make Voided your counterwagon.
Why didn't you?

[Varsoon]

Spoiler: Sorry, Profgessor

(Sorry I made you cry. I can swing for the fences sometimes and play very aggressively, but I promise that all of that aggression/negativity is game-focused. I don't want the site to become some sort of hug-box or anything; I really like the empassioned, competitive, and sometimes aggressive plays that win games. On the same hand, I really like other players, even the ones that are mean, and I think we should all play these games as friends, so if I went over the line somewhere, I wanna apologize for that. Can you forgive me?)

In the game, though;
Still waiting on someone to put out a worthwhile and compelling the rival the Chandra wagon.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, it's nuts, like, woah, I'm opposed to a bad lynch nominee from the scumread I'm voting.
Insane.

It's like you're not even reading all my posts about how I think we don't need a vanity wagon right now and any wagon this close to deadline needs really good justification/casework/people backing it.

Either that or you are reading my posts and you just choose to neglect what I'm writing for whatever suits your push on me.

[Varsoon]

I'm town.

See, that shit doesn't work.
And I'm speaking from info that I know to be true.
The only way you can know if Chandra is town or not is if you are scum or masons.
So you can understand my hesitance to believe you when you just say "This player is Town" without any worth-a-damn evidence to back that up.


P-EDIT:
Dat Chandra appeal. Should'a worked some mutual Varsoon hate in there too. You're gonna attract more flies with honey.

@Profgessor: Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Xtoxm wagon. Feels far too much like Chandra scrounging for a counterwagon. I've just finished a game where a lurky Xtoxm won the game for town. Similarly, I've seen Xtoxm games where he's been notoriously absent as scum, too. I think what we've got from the slot isn't damning enough to justify a D1 lynch, though.

[Varsoon]

I really hope you're town and Nacho is town so that post game I can come and laugh at you.
Right now, I can't understand why you're so strident in your push for me.
I'm forced to either assume you're town trying far too hard to look productive after an early wagon sprawled on you, hoping that a red flip from me would secure you as worth-it,
or that you're scum trying to coast off of this tunnel on me because you figure it's safe enough to keep me around as no one really wants a lynch on me and you can handle keeping me alive in the case of a PR.

I mean, both are pretty anti-town. I've talked to you a bit about this, and tried to point out the absurdities, but you're not even really engaging with the game at this point.
You're just going 'VARSOON IS SCUM' over and over and over, and everything that I write just becomes twisted into more fodder for your inane push and other people have tried to get you to engage with other wagons and you just stick with what you're doing as if its somehow more important.

I'm not scum, damn it. I'm tired of coming back to a game where one player is incessant about it, because it makes engaging your slot really difficult for me. I can't perceive beyond the smokescreen of this tunnel on me--I can't discern why you're pushing me, because the reasons all sound too absurd, too off-base, too newbie at times, and just generally make me question

why

even though I know you inevitable answer is the useless, 'you are scum'.

As town, how the fuck do I deal with that?


PEDIT:
@Profgessor: As for Chandra's push, I can see scum motivation in not taking the low-hanging fruit. The fact that you're thinking already, "Well, scum

would

probably go back to the Constantine or Voided wagons and Chandra didn't..." reflects that Chandra's playing on a level that anticipates that sort of thought. Right now, as Chandra is being run up, Chandra needs to make 'town' moves. Voting Xtoxm

seems

like a town move, but there's no case there and Xtoxm isn't really all that scummy. Refuting Nacho's points

seems

like a town move, but Chandra's rebuttals were weak and unconvincing to me. Chandra's aware of what will earn 'town' credit and has been trying to up their game to avoid this lynch, but I'd like you to consider Chandra's play before the slot was being considered as a serious wagon. That's the play that matters. Light a fire under scum's ass and they'll play town all day, but it's just an act, and to me this seems apparent.

[Varsoon]

aw, I done goof'd and got my tags all sideways.

[Varsoon]

TL;DR:
Kuro's Tunnel is Anti-town and I can't even

Chandra's playing Level 4 scum.

[Varsoon]

I've upheld why I think Chandra is scum.
That's counterpoint enough for me, Kuro.

[Varsoon]

Scum can PR-hint, too.
If Chandra is a town PR, Chandra should've stepped up her play from gamestart and not ended up as the largest wagon heading into deadline.

This is just more survivalistic straw-grasping likely to come from scum run up D1.

[Varsoon]

The caution-to-the-wind sort of play coming from Chandra's slot early doesn't seem at all to come from a PR trying to avoid being a lynch candidate.
That whole "Don't lynch me guys I am special" bit exists solely for the purpose of bringing it up later and insisting "Guys is my appeal working yet?"
For someone who claims to see through me, Kuro, you sure do seem duped by Chandra's schtick.

[Varsoon]

If you were a PR, you came into the game with that knowledge. You didn't reflexively figure that shit out once you caught flak for play and ended up as a wagon.
Your recent appeal-at-town play is coming solely from the fact you're a lynch candidate.
Again; if you're a town PR, you should've played a safer game from page 1.

P-EDIT:
There's plenty of ways to play it safe

and

risk being the NK choice. There's people doing it just fine in this game.

Kuro, you're a broken record. I mean this as kindly as I can mean it; stop.

Aaaaaand there's Chandra trying to finally roll tide onto a mislynch that makes sense from the slot! Good stuff! If you manage to get me lynched, you can just claim you were too blindsided by my aggressive push on you! Except, wait, shit, that's

exactly

why I'm not voting Kuro and we're not lynching Kuro. There's no legitimacy to that sort of push, especially in light of the wagons we have with actual casework. Try again.

[Varsoon]

Ah, I meant play it safe

and

avoid being an NK target.
Especially in a game with 'high profile' players.

[Varsoon]

I'd like to use my quintuple vote now please thanks

[Varsoon]

Kuro, you're a broken record. I mean this as kindly as I can mean it; stop.

You're going to have to NK me to stop me ^_^

I'd daykill you if I had the shot.
We'll talk postgame about how this strategy of yours is really, really terrible/not fun.

[Varsoon]

Post it a third time, Kuro-sama.
For the

people

.

[Varsoon]

No, I'm purposefully not doing that.
Stop being such a [redacted].

Post your case so I can put on the most soothing music I can find and valiantly stride through it; You'll be calling me Ben Jonson after I've finished what will certainly be a Famous Voyage through your 'case'.

P-EDIT:
Oh, cool, there we go. Give me a moment.
Kuro, you're about to see how to engage with the game independent of a push on a single scumread.
Chandra, you can also sit along and maybe learn how to refute a case or two, or at least see how

town

does it.

[Varsoon]

Kuro, please stop posting until I'm done addressing and refuting all of your points so far, okay?

[Varsoon]

It's really insulting that I'm putting in a lot of work right now and you're already pre-emptively shitting all over me.
Stop.
Just stop.

[Varsoon]

Disclaimer: This whole post exists to refute Kuro's case against me. If you're not interested in that shit or don't want it bogging down the game, feel free to gloss/skip.

First of all, I'd like to take down your self-effacing rhetoric here. You're trying to bait people into giving your case more legitimacy from the get-go, playing this 'woe is me' card with your whole 'people will just ignore this' appeal. People have been ignoring your case so far because it is a poor case; something that I hope to prove by the end of this post.

1. I asked for your vote on Chandra for a few reasons; First and foremost was to see if you were willing to actually participate in the larger game at hand. Secondly, I am doling you out an insult here--of course you're not going to join me on the Chandra wagon, you've been stalwart about voting for me all game. My 1020 is clearly a joke, as I'm poking fun at the fact that you'll likely appropriate the Chandra flip regardless of what it is in order to continue your entrenched voting for me. Finally, I had the brief and slim glimmer of hope that we could consolidate some wagons and actually get a lynch before deadline, which is something that town needs to do.

2. I was not 'convinced' by Elbirn to join the Voided wagon. I'd been scum reading voided prior to Elbirn's points/vote on Voided and at the time I felt that Voided was a much more likely wagon to end the day on. Honestly, the Chandra wagon still has yet to surpass it, so I'm feeling a bit happy that I was right about this.

3. You come to the conclusion here that Chandra is town based on the fact that I voted for Chandra, realized the wagon wasn't gaining the momentum it needed to end the day on a lynch, and then changed to

my other reigning scumread

? I'd say that I'm not touching this one, but I will. You're making the assumption that because I pushed for a Chandra lynch and then later returned to a voided push, that indicates Chandra is town. On Day 1. The logic isn't there--you're filling in a gap that I must be scum, but in that case, even then, these pushes/votes could be busses, and, if anything, scum!Varsoon in this situation with hesitance to commit to a Chandra wagon looks

exactly

like a soft-bus/distancing to me. So, I'm literally unable to fathom the leaps in logic that make you believe that this somehow indicates Chandra is town. Especially given your scum-read of me.

4. This isn't even a point in your court at all--unless you're somehow implying that my gut-scum read on Chandra coupled with what I've said is a scummy ISO is poor/scum reasons for voting someone on D1? Regardless, I'm at least being sincere about my reasons for voting/following Nacho onto the Chandra wagon in the first place. You've chosen to read that sincerity as scum, which is awkward, because it isn't very difficult to fabricate reasons to be on the Chandra wagon. If anything, my sincerity speaks towards my town identity and is consistent with how genuine I've been about my pushes all game.

5. In the 'holes in the thought process' bit that you run here, you've taken my posts entirely out of context and the dialogue that they are a part of. The first post is a very strong reaction to Chandra where I'm decrying her play from the get-go. Later, I uphold the fact that I'm scumreading Chandra by asking Cabd why he's town-reading the slot and suggesting that I am not. The final posts there solidify my scum-read on Chandra. As it turns out, Chandra made plenty of posts inbetween all of those posts you've taken out of context, and votes moved around a bit as well. So, yes, you are literally misrepresenting my play here, lying about 'holes in my thought process', and trying to say that I never had substantial points on Chandra--something that I've said is true multiple times. However, it's clear from these posts (even outside of the dialogue that you removed them from) that I'm scumreading Chandra and that I've had a negative opinion of the slot from an early stage, which is exactly what I've been speaking towards. I've also gone on record saying that my points against Chandra are far less substantial than the ones I've made against Voided. Once again, I've only ever been genuine and straightforward when it comes to these things. You're the one who is literally cutting the game up into a fictitious retelling in order to support your entrenched scumread on me.


6. I've already explained in post 1155 and following. Reads change over time. My points against voided fall in that 'Hole' of yours. Once again, you're not considering the entire game scope, but rather, looking at isolated posts out of context. Whether or not it is intentional, this is causing you to misrepresent a lot of my play in a way that's disingenuous to the actual game.

7. I've stated time and time again that Elbirn's vote was coupled with points against Voided that I agreed with (I never said they were the

same

as my points. If anything, Elbirn added to the case against Voided rather than just restating what I was saying earlier) at a time that I thought the Chandra wagon was not going to be able to hit lynch by deadline. I've been thorough about this; I don't see what your misunderstanding is. It seems like you're calling me scum for joining back on the Voided wagon once I realize it can be pushed to a lynch, but given that I'd been outward about my Voided scumread, this shouldn't be surprising and could just as easily come from town. Also, when

everyone

was voting Voided? When I joined the Voided wagon at that time, the only votes were Constantine, Xtoxm, and Elbirn. Get your damn facts straight.

8. Here, you accuse me of 'mudslinging' when I've been pretty thorough and sincere about why I have voted the people I've voted. My votes have only been on Singer (early vote to help me sort out the slot), You (because I initially read your rubbish as scum-motivated, and soon realized you might just be [redacted]), Cabd (disagreed with early reads and pushes, wanted to pressure the slot), Chandra, and Voided. That's hardly slinging mud at lots of people to see what sticks. That's 1/4 of the playerbase. You know who also makes up 1/4 of the playerbase? Scum.

9. Once again, you're taking posts out of their context to form your understanding of the game. First of all, I was on the Cabd wagon early and I stayed on it because I disagreed strongly with the Marquis/Constantine wagon and Cabd wasn't producing any content--I wanted to keep that pressure on. I voted for Cabd in direct response to his shitty reads list, demanding he answer my questions about his reads. At the time, the only other people voting Cabd were Profgessor Emotion and lufan131, so, once again, it's nice to see you lying about the state of the wagon when I joined it. Secondly, I've explained my reasons for joining the Voided wagon when I did and I've stood by them. If you still think those reasons make me scum, fine. Stay deluded. Finally, I joined the Chandra wagon with Nacho because Nacho promised me results and, furthermore, promised it was a viable wagon. The first time, I was just as curious about Nacho's intentions as I was eager to put some pressure on Chandra. The second time, Nacho had brought a good case and insisted that we could actually get a lynch on Chandra by the deadline. In both cases, I was scum-reading Chandra and I followed Nacho onto the wagon at his behest. You've taken this to indicate that Nacho and I are scum together. I've tried to explain to you how absurd that would be, but you seem dead-set on thinking that's the only possible reason why I would follow someone I consider to be my superior at this game onto a wagon, especially when I was initially paranoid (I voiced this earlier, too) of him and trying to discern his logic. You stick by this whole 'I will call out what I think is scummy' line, but you're so entrenched in calling me scum that you've scum-called almost every goddamn post I've made while hardly giving any attention to the rest of the game. Once again, your bias is showing.


I think this takes care of everything.
In typing this (1,500 words--more than I'm likely to find in your whole fucking ISO), I've had to redact and backspace numerous insults.
I'm trying my best to be civil about this. I like playing this game. I like to find common ground with other scummers. I'm trying to distance myself from a past of blowing up and self-destructing in games. You're actively making that really hard for me, and so I hope that you actually read the points I put down here instead of just glossing them and calling them lies. Because, honestly, I'm really goddamn stressed out enough; I don't need mafiascum to become stressful too.

[Varsoon]

Eugh.
For catharsis, though:

[Varsoon]

Then no one would read it.
The disclaimer works just fine.

Wisdom! What are you doing?
I suggest you read up, but 60 pages? Ooof.
Why are you on the Constantine wagon? Dude's been pretty much site-absent. It's a damn policy lynch more than anything at this point.

[Varsoon]

As i said i dont mind sitting here alone on Varsoon, until a miracle happens, im not going to reveal those reasons... not for some time at least.

So you're softing that you somehow have a role that's granted you a D1 guilty against me?

[Varsoon]

I suggest you read up, but 60 pages? Ooof.
Why are you on the Constantine wagon? Dude's been pretty much site-absent. It's a damn policy lynch more than anything at this point.

not planning on reading

It's a pretty nice policy lynch and ideal for D1.

I agree that it's a fine enough policy lynch...
and smokescreen that gives us absolutely shit-all when it comes to finding scum based on the flip.
Chanda flip gives us much better information because of the interactions with the slot and around the slot and because, y'know, there's actually a worth-a-shit case on it.

P-EDIT:
Oh, fuck you.
I'm not going to interact with you anymore unless it's to lynch you, Kuro. You had a chance to actually engage with my points, but here you are, crossing your arms and saying 'Nuh uh!' just like I knew you would.

[Varsoon]

Start here:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7067337

Read Chandra's play and interactions before that and afterwards and it's clear that Chandra tried to curb her game once pressure was applied.
I make some points defending my Chandra votes and read in the long anti-Kuro post, but, eh.

[Varsoon]

I don't.
IF that's pinging PR-play, show me early chandra posts that line up.
It looks reactionary rather than based on a mindset around a role when going into a game.

[Varsoon]

Nacho, I'm going to night kill the shit out of you.

[Varsoon]

How you gonna abandon ship like that when we got 2 days left?

[Varsoon]

It's almost like you want to spread derision, town chaos, and maybe end on a no-lynch!

[Varsoon]

Chandra is softclaming power role. We could wagon Chandra up to claim, sure, but the wagon will break apart when he does claim. If he's scum, we've already done our job.

This makes no sense.
Are we gonna shy away from every PR claim ever?
If he's scum, our job is to lynch him.
C'mon.

[Varsoon]

The second I step away for a short nap, this game explodes? Okay. I guess I need to take care of some business.
I

have

to set this up during the day phase, but given Chandra's claim, rubbish play, and the fact she seems off the table for lynching, I'm gonna just do it D1.

Set Up The Pins: Chandra Nalaar

I assume this is some sort of dumb mahjong pun. :l
Sigh.

Oh, hey, did the day phase become a clusterfuck right at the last 2 days of deadline because of what Nacho did?
Have all the big, worthwhile wagons been derailed because of Nacho (Early Marquis/Constantine partially, Voided and Chandra definitely)?
I'm willing to lynch the slot, because it did exactly the shit it said it wouldn't do, and for really weak reasons.
Now he's pushing for a policy lynch over what were pretty good Day 1 lynches.
Now, before anyone says "What the fuck, Varsoon?" or "This was out of nowhere!"
Please follow posts 401, 973, 1121, 1127 (that's how you soft a claim, suck shits), 1219, 1236, etc. I've been paranoid on the slot, when called out for thin, shitty material, he's posted these walls of not-so-amazing-but-okay material which could be seen as survivalistic. He's also made really clear-cut appeals to players and when I called him out on it he just played it off. All in all, the play here reminds me a lot of scum-Nacho, who keeps me at an awkward distance, doubtcasting me just enough to get me to warily sheep him while keeping me in the mislynch territory.
I was originally going to use my powers to help me figure out what the fuck Nacho was doing if he wasn't the N1 Kill, but now I think I'll get a higher yield from Chandra.
VOTE: Nachomamma8

Sonic isn't scum. He dropped a really big alignment tell for me early on.
Proceed.

[Varsoon]

I also think Chandra is scummy, but I really want this voided wagon and dropping off of it with less than 3 days to deadline and no clear supporters seems like it'd just serve as a distraction.
You're preaching to the choir with me. You need to convince the other players in this game of Chandra scum and Chandra being a viable wagon in these last 2/3 days.

I can and will push this wagon to a lynch with your support.
I've been playing this game long enough to know when I can push a wagon to lynch and when I can't.

You scumshit.

[Varsoon]

I don't think I can change it after I've done it. I guess I can PM Pie about it, though.


Ugggggh Constantine is such a

shit

wagon.

[Varsoon]

@Nacho: I don't care what you think their alignments are, the

way

that you shifted the momentum of the game around was anti-town at best and down-right scum in my eyes.

I'm not going to join the stupid, stupid, stupid Constantine wagon. Lynch that shit without me.

[Varsoon]

And what makes you think that Xtoxm/Constantine now is

good

decision?

[Varsoon]

The 'information' we get from a last minute compromise-wagon is shit.
People are far more likely to scramble for a lynch that looks viable rather than a lynch that's worthwhile.
There's a large chance the day can end in a no lynch.
Scum can make use of town's erratic play at this point to leverage more lynches.
It's a game state where scum are in control and have the most to gain.

You chose this.

Constantine isn't present in

any

of his games. Don't give me that trash.

[Varsoon]

You have no idea how angry it makes me when you say the Chandra wagon wasn't viable, after you spouted off so much of this "Trust me, trust me" rubbish about it being viable.

On a side note, I actually really like Voided's recent posts.

[Varsoon]

lol meta
What games were you thinking of?
'cus there was a point where I was trying to be very straight-laced town as scum.

[Varsoon]

Oh, in C9++ I bussed my team hard, CC'd town, and tried to throw up a lot of dust. Not exactly seeing the similarities here, but ah.
It's all G.
<3

[Varsoon]

Oh, lol, the levels thing has become an in-joke for me. I try to bring it up at least once a game so that people will double take and be all, "The fuck?"

[Varsoon]

Yeah, my action was bust, too.
:l

I need to re-evaluate the game, given the flip.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Sonic

Sonic thing did not pan out.

[Varsoon]

I don't like Voided and Chandra that much but I wanna see if I'm just completely stupid this game.
:/

[Varsoon]

Xiao Xiao Buns.

Basically, I feel like Sonic reached out to me in a way that should reflect something I expected to happen overnight and it didn't, so I feel like Sonic's trying to unfairly get me on his side now.
:/

[Varsoon]

I actually really wanna sheep you today, Bins.
No biiiig reason.

[Varsoon]

I'd explain it but I don't think I'm smarter than you.

Er, I guess I'll explain it anyway? I felt like it was a really bad lynch on a player who we didn't have much interaction with and I didn't like that it felt like such a counterwagon to all the wagons I liked. Felt like a last minute forced thing.
I also didn't like a lot of of the players on it.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, it was a dumb wagon.
I'm still reeling over the flip.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, look, it's justifiable now because of the scum flip, but it bothers me a lot when tons of people pile on to a wagon for no reason/weak reasons.
That's what I saw going on with Constantine and I was really sure of my Nacho/Chandra reads.

In fact, I really think Nacho's still likely to be scum.
:l
I guess I'll try this again today.

Set Up The Pins: Nachomamma8

[Varsoon]

Show us how the bus was obvious, Xtoxm.
Shooooow us.

[Varsoon]

I actually like Xtoxm's point.
but yeah this
VOTE: Nachomamma8
I'll probably just get blocked tonight again /anyway/.

[Varsoon]

His play was incredibly awkward. It still is. I guess I don't see town-Nacho saying something like post 2351. Feels way too scum-gloaty and iirc Nacho thinks slayer's gambit is bad.
The final push out on Constantine slot looks like a "Oh shit this is inevitable, time for a bus" kind of thing, too.

[Varsoon]

Caught up.
I'm good with everything and nacho needs a few more votes and then yay we can be done

[Varsoon]

I'm sorry for all the grievances between us, Profgessor.
Apparently I can change my target so long as Day is still ongoing, just like night targets can be changed so long as night is ongoing.

Set Up The Pins: Profgessor Emotion

[Varsoon]

Because I'm having a lot of trouble reading the slot and I figure we'll both make it to the next day.

[Varsoon]

Same.

[Varsoon]

Too late for that sort of coaching.

[Varsoon]

Ever think I might be doing it

because

Profgressor isn't likely to be lynched?
C'mon.

[Varsoon]

What makes you say he's probably not scum?
Wouldn't it behoove scum nacho to play up his town meta since there's so many veteran players who could identify it?

[Varsoon]

Yeah, it's not a killing or negative utility ability. :l

[Varsoon]

I think xtoxm was the counter wagon to scum and youre only still pushing it to pretend it's not.

There, I said it.

This Elbirn guy tho
<3

[Varsoon]

So can we lynch Nacho?

[Varsoon]

You're too much of a wild variable, Nacho.
I'm not gonna stop scum-reading you just 'cus you've got a townread on me.
I wanna see you lay down the law, man.
Kick scum right in the ass.
And even then, I'll still have to lynch you, because you'd bus your whole team before my eyes and still pull a scumwin from it if I wasn't extra cautious.
You abused the Power of Faith, bro. That shit cuts deep.

[Varsoon]

You've been all over the place and your place on the Constantine wagon looks far too picture-perfect bus to me.
I'd kick myself in the ass a hundred times over if I let ScumNacho walk.

[Varsoon]

Can you shut up and just trust me a bit, okay?

[Varsoon]

Hey! I still am in this game!
Oh, let's wagon nacho!

[Varsoon]

THAT'S MY THING, SONIC

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Gin and Sonic

I wish I could say I have a guilty on this slot.
:/

[Varsoon]

'cus you're on all the bad wagons, Sonic!
All the bad ones!

And I have yet to become a part of your drinking club.
This bothers me.

@Wisdom: What implicates Mara?

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Profgessor

Like that?

I guess I have been reading. I mean, I made a case on this slot, too. :/

[Varsoon]

You're falling apart under scrutiny here.

[Varsoon]

I got nothin'. Guess I'll try elsewhere.

Set Up The Pins: Gin and Sonic

This seems good though?
VOTE: InflatePie

[Varsoon]

I always doubt the Xiao Xiao Buns.
It always comes back to bite me in the ass.

[Varsoon]

I've got believe

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

I have got to say,
playing with metal sonic is never dull.

[Varsoon]

I actually got no result.
:/
I feel like I'm being screwed around with.

[Varsoon]

I wish. I'm feeling more like Cheetory nowadays than I am on another level, y'know?

[Varsoon]

Woo!
Also, we should let everyone post, just in case there is any other info that really needs to be on the table!!

Also, @Elbirn:

Probably a Parappa the Rapper reference.
U Rappin' Good.

[Varsoon]

Elbirn, just recognize me for my talents

[Varsoon]

He says that in, uh, Mario Bros live action movie, too.
D:

[Varsoon]

I like the new avatar, Ipie.
I dunno how to feel about the self-vote
reads?

[Varsoon]

Oh, I thought sonic died 'cus of Cabd and lover scenario. Guess not.
This has got to be like, the, third fucking game in a row where sonic has rolled an investigative role while I am town and he's tried really hard to soft his role to me and I've been too paranoid to accept it at face value.

[Varsoon]

I'm stupid and I second guess myself too much. :/

now i kinda wonder what Sonic's choice hand thing was.

[Varsoon]

Hot titties.
Also, I didn't kill sanic.
Dude's my bro.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Jazzy J

WHATS GOOOOOD MONICA?

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Xtoxm
Gonna follow my buddy Elbirn.

[Varsoon]

I voted Jazz because all the cool kids are doing it.
Also because Jazzmyn is in this weird nebulous region of reads for me where I'm like, "For real? What even is that person?"
Also, because I think Jazzy J is funny to write/say.
Reminds me of Bazz B, who is a BLEACH character I like.

[Varsoon]

Ohhhh.
VOTE: Jazzy J

[Varsoon]

Dumbass! I'm conf-town!

[Varsoon]

Wait, the mod didn't confirm me?

[Varsoon]

Okay, I'm just fuckin' around.
But really, Sakura throwing doubt on me like, c'mon, fuckin' step it up.

[Varsoon]

That's a really cool thing for the Godfather to say.

[Varsoon]

"Lol fuck playing the game, just lynch everyone I can't be assed to put effort into reading"
-Sakura 2015

[Varsoon]

Because your post 3380 is literally advocating lynching everyone that isn't 'confirmed'.

That's not playing the goddamn game.
Lynch me first if you're going to try something that stupid.

Play the fucking game, get better reads, and stop corralling for some lynch-down-the-list rubbish.
That shit only helps scum.

Goddamn I'm pissed
Like why even fucking play mafia
Why don't we just randomly lynch, use our PRs, and then lynch based mechanical info alone

[Varsoon]

Please fucking kill me now if you're all going to be ignorant douchebags over this.
I'm town. Suck a dick, dumbshits.

[Varsoon]

What the fuck, Sakura?
In one of those Touhou games I literally coasted off of being a godfather who was investigated early.
I'm always against disengagement and lynching once people think they've figured the game out based on roles alone.
I really hate that shit.
Like I want to physically do harm to people who are that fucking ignorant and who would waste everyone's time and ruin a perfectly fine game with that sort of ass-backwards idiocy.

P-EDIT:
You wanna doubtcast that I'm confirmed town, I'm gonna doubtcast that you're confirmed town.
The fact that Pie hates godfather but I was a GF in that previous game is noteworthy enough that GF could easily be in this game, too.
Fucking hate you.

[Varsoon]

My bad I should just sheep play that I think is bad, you're right.
Fuck me for speaking my mind
I must be scum even though I literally said Lynch me first if you're going to be idiots and not play the fucking game.

[Varsoon]

For someone who relies on meta so much, you should be able to figure this shit out.

[Varsoon]

No, try again. I'm town.
Stop acting like you're some worth-a-shit scumhunter who's right now that you've been soft-confirmed by Elbirn.
I'm tired of that shit. Moreover, I'm annoyed by that shit. It's not because I'm getting PoE'd, and your arrogance over that makes me really angry.

[Varsoon]

I'm not allowed to trust tell anymore.
;_;