FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'm getting the hell out of here. hf

[Seiko x Naomi]

Yes, singer is town still.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Why vote there instead of fresh?

[Seiko x Naomi]

cos I don't want to vote fresh.

I don't understand your case on him really. I feel like tippy is way scummier.

I personally don't have a case other than the softs that have been flying around.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Mollie, do you think it's worth reading the game or just going from here?

[Seiko x Naomi]

If you don't mind me asking singer, are pie's posts bugging you, or is my lack of posting and then having an excuse along with being resigned to being lynch that bugs you?

pedit-

Fair enough.

Meh.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I have no idea what that is even supposed to mean.

But okay.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'm taking it as a threat

Why are you making threats like that?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I will do some reading while I watch NCIS and play pogeymanz.

I do think singer's lynch pool is more indicative of singer-town, however.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Something something ika compulsively lurks as scum (even as multiball scum) something

[Seiko x Naomi]

We both talked a fair deal about the current site meta and specifically We the purple that just finished.

It's probably been mentioned here, but the tl;dr of the game- Scum Wisgiffy+Titus/ms shitposted for pages and pages and pages

Literally every single scum in that game was found in the lurkmass or in the top posters

But the big issue is that people see they get away with these things as scum which makes her more inclined to scumread the people doing them (I am not saying you are shitposting but your high volume of posts are bugging her, I remember reading her posting something along those lines day 1 too but I have to go and find it), but if she was scum I would expect for *me* not to be on that list. It's way too easy for scumsinger to abate us by townreading pie, but I don't think we've been in high volume posting. I also think scum-singer would have it way easier to just have a mix of hyperposters and lurkers, but as I said before we're kinda a middle ground and I don't think scumsinger would push against you and me at the same time.

So basically "The lynch pool consists of people doing things that scum do because they get away with and that could be colouring her reads slightly" whereas I'd expect scum-her to have it either more overtly or not at all

pedit-

Mollei I wasn't saying I was scumreading him I was saying that in response to bulba's read on him

[Seiko x Naomi]

Note: I know there is more behind the mollie read singer, I know you have other reasonings, but can you honestly say that her postcount isn't in there?

[Seiko x Naomi]

But I don't think she throws me and prohawk in there if thats all it was

[Seiko x Naomi]

I am making some popcorn and reading.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I lied.

I am actually eating chips and salsa.

And reading now.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Hi guys

I'm up to page 40!

Okey here goes.

Page 1
19 Feels gross but it's not alignment indicative, it could just be giffy making a shitty joke.
22 I'm not sure how I feel about this. Something feels off but I'm not sure it's scummy so much as bad town?

Page 2
26 I don''t like this fearmongering over an SK this early in the game.
30 This, in light of ZZZX's earlier post is making me raise an eyebrow. Especially considering she didn't even acknowledge it, while having an SK could *definitely* validate her theory.
40 Admittedly, I have no idea what is bugging Mollie about either of them at this point in time.
41 Did anyone ever ask for a backup of this discredit on page 2? Or why he even *needed* to discredit on page 2?

Page 3
52 Does this only apply for jaqen or?.. Do you have a bunch of experience with waynegg mollie?
53 Pls tell me tammy doesn't keep talking about her aversion to scum for pages and pages and pages. That being said, I hope I see things from her that aren't that and aren't spreading setup wifom.
69 I'm not sure I how I feel about this in light of the day 1 flip. That being said, I don't know the exact dynamic between Varsoon and Titus and their history.

Page 4
92 Aren't mastina's RVS reads usually more longwinded and more inclusive rather than a few select people?

Page 5
101 This feels like really misplaced paranoia this early in the game. antiika are both seriallurkerscum iirc, so why is mastina paranoid that they are hyperbussing sliding into townbloc scum? On page 5.
123 I think this is mollie-town worrying she's stepping on my toes. (But wouldn't stepping on toes be something scum worry about more than town?) eh, I think it's more indicative of mollie-town. It's primarily gut.

Page 6
136 Why? I actually kinda get a cheeky scumfuck vibe from mastina's post.
142 This cross townread is making me
squint all funny at these two.
149 At first mastina's fixation with our slot was bugging me but I'm starting to realize team mafia is a thing. That being said, the paranoia splatters still bug me.

Page 7
157 This feels faked.
164 Since when is Varsoon Captain Policy?
167 I actually think this vote feels rather town. I can understand the thought process behind it, and I'm not sure scum who has a fakeclaim (as has been the case in past borkgames) would actually care that flavor path was being shut down unless he was anticipating a fuckton of town going down that rabbithole
170 Shutting down these trains of thought why? That being said, I've made posts like this as town more often than as scum, so hm.
171 This seems like a vast overexaggeration for the push on you. You have one vote, and he's not campaigning to lynch you- why so stressed?

Page 8
178 You were really defensive on the last page, why is this a scumtell for someone else to be?
179 It is a rather sketchy that he has been focused on you instead of prohawk.
180 Do you really think both of them being scum and pushing the same points make sense here? Because I think it means both aren't scum.
181 This is town. Moving on.

Page 9
222 This feels like cheeky scum bravado.

Page 10
226 You feel like you came into this game insanely tense and defensive, varsoon. Why?
233 Why are you critiquing people's play this early in the game?

Page 11
250 Do you see her trying to lynch you yet? No.
260 You're sure pushing her like you think she's scum, trying to keep her on the back foot. Why?
269 I think we should post more things that are noncommittal and open to start theory debates. Because that's something town does.

Page 12
293 Why do you keep pushing an "Aeris isn't likely to live long" angle?
296 I really like this becasue it lines up with the stuff that was going on last night, whereas there were a few people commenting on it early game, plus I don't think scummollie speaks out against it

Page 13
300 This is town. Moving on.
308 Jacob, no. Why do you have this wrong opinion?
320 Do you think scum-mollie would go all capslock over being misrepped this early in the game?

Page 15
372 It's not alignment indicative.

Page 16
390 You don't seem to have picked *anything* up over the past 15 pages. Do you have any thoughts?
399 You feel like you are trying very hard to just sit back and color commentate without fully commit to anything. why?

Page 17
422 What makes you think the read has evolved? And I think it's rather funny that you are townreading varsoon for the reasons I am scumreading him.

Page 19
462 I admittedly didnt follow his posts too closely in WTP. But this feels strange to me.
466 why are you buddying feysal?

Page 25
612 This is town. I am not negotiating this.
616 idk if I've told you but I learn a lot from mollie throughout my time on MS. In this particular instance, it makes me think of her townread on me in xmen and how she described it fits perfectly with how that post feels and I don't think she remembers it let alone thinks I do.

Page 27
666 This does give creedence to bulba's stance about overaggression, it looks like he is trying to set up an excuse to start lurking

Page 28
677 I don't really think I posted anything that warrants a townread.

Page 31
742 So while you are townreading both of our heads, you can't actually tell our posts apart? How does that make any sense

Page 34
815 Do you intend to do things?

An idea of where my reads stand-

Town-
Singer- I don't think singer pushes away the people she has been pushing away as scum in this game. I think her stance regarding frogger talking about rl situations iwth mollie while they said they were talking about both looked interesting too but I do disagree with that
Mollie- A lot of her posting just feels town-mollie. As frozen taco has highlighted, active mollie is generally indicative of town-mollie but it's not just that. Frogger's post that singer had issues with, namely 612 Is reminiscent of me in x-men where I had an emotional breakdown in thread and while I understand this wasnt full on breakdown mollie's reasoning there kinda stuck with me and i doubt they would think to fake/try to fake a post like that.
FSS- I think he's town based on his early varsoon push, I think newbtown would be antsy about someone shutting down the option to investigate flavor whereas newbscum wouldnt look at their role pm and see they have a fakeclaim and think "hey if I leave flavor open they can chase it down a rabbithole" and then the response to varsoon's accusations of aeris being defensive mirrored my own.
Aeris- I found her defensiveness town, and I found myself mirroring her thoughts of why she was being pushed while prohawk was ignored.
Antiika- Actually posting, and aggressive, in a hydra with two members who serial lurk as scum.
Scorpious- Gutread tbh.

Not-town-
Kaboose- Up until page 40 (where I am stopping because it is going into circlejerk territory so I am starting fresh here!) he seemed content to sit in the back and color commentate without actually committing a stance of his own and just generally trying to look busy
Fresh- "Why aren't you guys lynching Jaqen or posting jaqen votes?" Feels like scum. It feels different than wtp but I admittedly stopped reading closely by the time he was there so meh
Varsoon- I don't like his aggression, I don't like his push on aeris, I don't like how he seemed to come into this game and just felt tense.
Tippy- I feel like he's sitting in back and not proactively tring to get himself in the game and instead asking others to for him as an excuse to not actually engage
mastina- I didn't like a lot of mastina's posts- Her first quotestrip wall seemed way shorter than normal, her paranoia didn't come off to me as genuine, and there were instances (such as when she mentioned how maybe scum team wont want to kill her but hte other will) that just felt really cheekyscum. I don't like her reachout to us where she was like "even if I was scum I still have to scumhunt" or whatever it was.

Anyone not mentioned I have no qualms lynching either, but those are my preferences

some things I noted-
The sexist debate that happened earlier in the game regarding prohawk, and then the current one-, I noticed mollie's stance stayed the same which gave me goodfeels but there are a lot of people who commented on the last one that have yet to weigh in and I want to see if their stances changed or what happened!

That being said I'd be willing to talk about singer/mollie with singer/mollie because I think we are all town!

[Seiko x Naomi]

You know what really helps them stop arguing? Telling them its a TvT.

I think more people should do it.

Rather than *actually* try and work with them on it.

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: Varsoon

Singer, I know you said he was on your lynch pool yesterday.

Could you be persuaded to vote him today?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Do I not get an answer?

[Seiko x Naomi]

He feels like he came into this game tense. Expecting people to vote him, upset when they don't vote him because it doesn't give him something to fight against, along with the early push on aeris while townreading her and outright ignoring prohawk bothered me too. FSS actually called out him getting on Aeris's case for being on the defensive while it looks like Varsoon's been looking for an excuse to be aggressively defensive in this game.

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: Varsoon

Singer, I know you said he was on your lynch pool yesterday.

Could you be persuaded to vote him today?

Varsoon is town. I encourage everyone to vote Seiko until they unvote, and probably even after.

Why don't you try more of your throwaway color commentary, that always seems to get people to listen!

[Seiko x Naomi]

Hey guys

Did you know that you become confirmed scum for pushing varsoon?

All the cool kids are doing it!

tl;dr ceph-

titus lynched d1

flips town

We were the competing wagon

A bunch of blahblahblah about titus vca d1

Some scumfucks are sitting in the back circlejerking

some scumfucks are coming into this game really tense and defensive!

And

That's about it

[Seiko x Naomi]

Well that's what happens when I have to catch up.

It's not exactly an exciting read.

I have a legitimate catchup post at the top of the page.

[Seiko x Naomi]

This game seems plagued with TvTs, which now that I am *actually* here are going to stop!

(or else )

[Seiko x Naomi]

I can always count on you to make a color commentary post that doesn't actually contribute anythign, kaboose!

[Seiko x Naomi]

What do you think of Kaboose singer?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Are you saying you can't find any clue of alignment in "I'm on V/LA," "I will catch up" "Some people like my playstyle" singer?

Can't you see how sufficiently he has crumbed his feelings toward a kaboose push throughout his ISO?

The sheer intricacies are hard to miss unless you are a master scumhunter, so clearly you need to go back to scumhunter school

[Seiko x Naomi]

I mean now that I'm confirmed scum for voting varsoon I have to flaunt whatever I can to keep myself alive, so I will put up a facade of being able to find those intricacies!

pedit-

Also @TAmmy- It kinda depends on the game. If you want I can try to track down catchups I've done as either alignment but if I wasnt like a fuckton of pages behind I wouldnt have done it

[Seiko x Naomi]

Majority of mine (I honestly haven't read too many of pie's posts but I know she reached out a bunch of people and had to garner the votes for the titus wagon so) have been trying to work with singer/mollie

So sure, I guess I'm not?

But hell, why is "wanting to work with people" even a towntell? Where is the line drawn between "wanting to work with" and "wanting to be a part of a group to absolve yourself of blame"?

@Tammy-

There you were focusing primarily on a dangerous mechanic. Here, its like page 2 and I can understand why you did it but people are already going to be paranoid out their ass and this early into the game "hey it mighth be multiball" just bugs me.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Definitely like Seiko's catch up posts. They're insightful instead of just busy work. I also appreciate it because it's regrounding some of my old reads which I started to toss out for paranoia reasons. I still want to see what the response from toilet training Elmo is, first.

@Seiko: How closely were you reading the game the first time, because some of the questions/responses seem like you weren't? Although if it's NS, I can see that. (I really need to learn to tell people apart better...) What are your thoughts on Tammy's accusations that the players in this thread were sexist? How do you think that comes from a town Tammy?

What parts were insightful? The catchup was solely my own. I made comments as I was reading up to pie and we talked about things some but it wasnt a ton.

A lot of my posts are more reserved than pie's imo, I'm either very snarky/sarcastic but I try to be very non-confrontational whereas pie will dive straight after someone.

And I don't think scum/tammy would pull out the sexist card, in all honesty. I don't have a legitimate reason than I just don't think it happens.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Because it's such a weird accusation to make that is likely to receive heat from everywhere else. I don't see Tammy bringing in out of game situations like that.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Do you think Varsoon sounds tense or like he has been trying to work with other people?

I don't think my scumgame has been to the point where I just pointlessly fluff in a long time, so why does that mean I am town? Why can't I be scum actually looking for the other team?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Please, don't Tammy.

pedit-

I do see your point. I mean like, I don't see you making a personality accusation like that as scum. That's what I meant, I couldn't find the correct term to use so I used weird.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Don't throw your hands up and say "lynch me to prove a point"

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie what do you think of what ive mentioned about varsoon feeling very tense this game?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Oh, you mean you sheeping titus's OMGUS on us to absolve yourself of any blame after we flip town?

Sorry I'm talking about you like you're not here, maybe if you brought your own reasoning we would /actually/ have something to talk about!

Asserting I'm scum won't get me lynched, but you know that.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Seiko what do you think of what I've mentioned about you being a scumbutt this game?

Funny, I don't think you're titus?

And I don't think I care what titus thinks?

Let's play a game varsoon

You saw what pie said about how I felt coming into today

Well here I am

being an entity

What does that say of our alignment?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Cut the woe is me stuff.

Answer my question.

[Seiko x Naomi]

And while you're at it, I'd love your interpretation of Titus's case.

[Seiko x Naomi]

vote: Seiko

Where's notty?

he for the most part wasn't around yesterday until a few posts right at the end. i'll let him know you want to talk to him, although i feel i should mention he is for the most part resigned to being lynched (which is something i will not be accepting).

[Seiko x Naomi]

Here's my issue.

You are so adamant we are scum but you aren't even saying why. I'm trying to understand your read but you just deflect it to Titus's case. You say you want to lynch us because we will either be able to yuck it up with titus in the dead pt, or maybe we're scum

But I can't get a solid reasoning out of you why we are scum. I asked you to put titus's case in your own words, which, if you actually believed as adamantly as you make it out to seem- seeing as it changed your read and gave you a tunnelling focus, you should be able to just rattle off details easy. You called me scum for pushing you, yet you are begging for your own death. There are other people voting me, that you ignore.

It just doesn't make any sense from town-varsoon.

[Seiko x Naomi]

You'd have at least some reasoning behind this push on us.

[Seiko x Naomi]

So far. I've called out someone for being inactive only to find out they were using a slot that wasn't even playing(why?)

I've been called useless.

I've been called a sexist bigot.

I've been ignored..

so forgive me,I'm just putting a vote down and moving along..
dont mind me..


VOTE: Seiko X Naomi

Spoiler:

First and foremost, I know what it feels like to be called useless. I've been an IC before, my first time ever having it. I was literally shit. I lived until the day before lylo.

I've been the butt of jokes in the dead pt, where people were saying how I was scum MVP, constantly.

In Saki mafia that just finished I had to kick and scream to get people to listen to a read and even then noone even listened to it. I've never been someone that people listened to their opinions.

But I still try. We The Purple, the game that just finished, revolved around two scum spamming the thread to make everyone feel like they just wanted each and every day to be over.

This site has been really emotional lately and that is something I am actively trying to change, along with the activity fiascos, the acceptability of lurking and hyperposting.

I will talk about whatever you want to, throw out a thought to me.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I will be here tomorrow.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I would like to point out the difference between early-saki varsoon and early-FF varsoon.

Timid, actively trying to get better, versus grumpy gills.

that is all.

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: Frozentaco

[Seiko x Naomi]

hi mollie!

What do you think of cerb's qualifying his vote on me?

[Seiko x Naomi]

oh wait

VOTE: kaboose

[Seiko x Naomi]

I meant to join that wagon because they and singer were on it and their name stuck in my head

[Seiko x Naomi]

It's true.

Hi Seiko! How does it feel to rely on a meta tell and realize that *gasp* they're not infallible?

How does it feel to come in a game and try to continue the circlejerk that was plaguing us day 1?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Why is FSS guilty?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't understand how he could suddenly have a guilty on him ut of the blue.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Why is FSS guilty?

[Seiko x Naomi]

...

[Seiko x Naomi]

Please.
As in, please lynch me out of this game.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I have literally no idea what's going on.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I still have no fucking idea why there's a FSS wagon.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Coming from confirmed town.

That's why there's an FSS wagon, and I can't really understand why anyone in the town wouldn't be on said wagon. I can understand wanting to keep the day going to discuss things and continue scumhunting, but anybody who doesn't understand WHY there's a wagon isn't paying attention.

Now, that other thing, where people are going oh. I think i see it. etc, etc...that might be the reason *why* Scorpius knows FSS is guilty, so it's making people more willing to just accept the word of Scorpius on it, but in my case at least conftown says he knows person x is guilty, repeatedly, and say they *cannot* tell us anything more, rather than saying it's some gut read or some other thing, that means person x is guilty.

If there were some other reasoning giving, I'd be pushing for more information(as I already did), but since it's clear whatever reason he has for believing that isn't a reason which would be good to expose in thread...I'll take it as truth.

I am curious about what this thing everyone else is seeing that I'm missing though.

We have an innocent child who goes from apathy lurking to suddenly having a guilty on someone IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY. Sorry if I don't take that at face value and want some explanation before I put blind faith in him?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Because it just doesn't make sense to me.

and I *have* been saying I think FSS is town.

So, that would be my reservation.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Town worth keeping around? Enough to pressure a confirmed town on why/how they got a guilty? Really?

Geezus Seiko. That's sketchy as fuck.

Okay? Sorry I have issue taking a claim at face value on someone I'm townreading?

And varsoon, I seem to recall someone's staunch opposition to a certain wagon on day 1.

So no.

[Seiko x Naomi]

If I was actually fighting it instead of trying to understand it I would be yelling at people to unvote.

I'm not.

So, read the thread, or keep misrepping it.

Your choice.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Okay? Sorry I have issue taking a claim at face value on someone I'm townreading?

In addendum- Why would scum-me argue against it?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Because I have issues believing guilties?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I did reach out to scorpious, mollie

[Seiko x Naomi]

What do you think of jacob putting him at l-1

[Seiko x Naomi]

Yes

The reason I ask is because there was a normal a long time ago before they banned hydras where I was scum with a newbie and I was a joat with a rolecop and something else idr but I checked cabd N1 and we found out he was an even night vig but in thread he claimed N2 vig and my scumbuddy scumslipped and called him an even night vig so as everyone was voting him and noone was counting I saw the opportunity to hammer and I said it was L-1 and then cabd flipped on me because "dont put confirmed scum at L-1" but he was right! Although I didnt put him at L-1 I did hammer him

so I guess my thought process is he was hoping his buddy selfhammers and ends today?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't like him sliding the L-1 vote in there without saying anything.

He has gone way too much with the grain imo.

[Seiko x Naomi]

It doesn't particularly matter what I think and if I approve of the wagon at this point, does it?

I agree that's bothersome, but that also begs the question- how do you, as town, react when confirmed town claims a guilty on you?

But he's obviously getting lynched, which is why I'm not worrying about it anymore.

If it doesn't make sense down the line I'm going to have some issues.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Her.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Yes, singer?

[Seiko x Naomi]

i am (somewhat) back. unfortunately, i still haven't read the latter half of D2 (basically everything i missed).

i'll probably catch up later tonight and see where that takes me

[Seiko x Naomi]

I lied. I should be around tomorrow.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't really care if you lynch us.

But when we flip town, you don't lynch singer.

Comprende?

Town-
Singer- I don't think singer pushes away the people she has been pushing away as scum in this game. I think her stance regarding frogger talking about rl situations iwth mollie while they said they were talking about both looked interesting too but I do disagree with that
Mollie- A lot of her posting just feels town-mollie. As frozen taco has highlighted, active mollie is generally indicative of town-mollie but it's not just that. Frogger's post that singer had issues with, namely 612 Is reminiscent of me in x-men where I had an emotional breakdown in thread and while I understand this wasnt full on breakdown mollie's reasoning there kinda stuck with me and i doubt they would think to fake/try to fake a post like that.
FSS- I think he's town based on his early varsoon push, I think newbtown would be antsy about someone shutting down the option to investigate flavor whereas newbscum wouldnt look at their role pm and see they have a fakeclaim and think "hey if I leave flavor open they can chase it down a rabbithole" and then the response to varsoon's accusations of aeris being defensive mirrored my own.
Aeris- I found her defensiveness town, and I found myself mirroring her thoughts of why she was being pushed while prohawk was ignored.
Antiika- Actually posting, and aggressive, in a hydra with two members who serial lurk as scum.
Scorpious- Gutread tbh.

Also, way to only check pie's reads from day 1.

I said on day 2, when I WAS THE ONE POSTING

that I found him town.

And I've yet to hear an answer for why scum-seiko would be arguing against a claimed guilty from conftown.

So.

[Seiko x Naomi]

do you actually think I'm scum or are you just annoyed because we snapped at you yesterday and I didn't blindly follow the result you got?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I do not like mastin's stance on us.

Pie has been a nonentity since I started becoming an entity. Yes, day 1 was entirely pie. But since then has been me, I haven't even really had anything coming from pie. So maybe it's pride, maybe it's me questioning if she thinks pie would coach me like this, why she even thinks pie was relevant at that point.

This looks like her setting up to try and push us. Like, I don't even fucking understand how this is a thing.

Also- have you seen my scumgame, mastin?

But it's so fucking weird she's acting like "Oh that pie she's a wily one and all that stuff on day 2 could just be pie playing puppetmaster" when pie wasnt even fucking here to do anything.

It looks like she figured that by playing paranoid regarding us she could hop onto our wagon any time it felt good to her.

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie I really need oyu to talk to me about mastina because her stance regarding me is weird as fuck

[Seiko x Naomi]

because

1) I think its fairly evident pie was a nonentity yesterday

2) I don't think I've ever been scum vs mastin

3) I don't like how mastin's pretending like she knows I have this great insane scumgame when I've never been scum vs her, and I don't like her saying "Oh this is something scumpie could say to do" when it was rpetty evident pie wasnt even here

4) The paranoia regarding us feels faked. Like it just hasnt come off as genuine all game

[Seiko x Naomi]

I think varsoon is scum.

Can you walk me through mastin-town please because I'm not seeing it at all

[Seiko x Naomi]

Also, regarding people scumreading me dying-

Ask Nacho about the types of kill I wanted to make last borkgame.

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: varsoon

I'm still not remotely confident that mastin is town but we can talk about this later.

I think after varsoon lynch it needs to be TIP next because him being a nonentity is pinging me hard

[Seiko x Naomi]

Also- have you seen my scumgame, mastin?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Hey mollie, ask mastin when she's seen me scum, tia.

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: tip

chaaaaaaaaaaaaarge

[Seiko x Naomi]

Also- have you seen my scumgame, mastin?

Meanwhile, no one notices that mastin makes my scumgame out to be really good but then flat put ignores prompting tk share where she's seen it.

That seems organic.

Singer, your scumgame is insane so I can't townread you anymore.

Same for you aeris.

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie or singer could you ask mastin to either state which game she saw me-scum or share her knowledge of how me-scum plays?

Because she has been avoiding answering this and for something that seems pretty important that I get called out by name specifically for paranoia she should have no issue sharing where this came from.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Because mastin makes a big deal about how she can't townread us for one thing because we are who we are- especially pie. Pie wasn't around, but the way mastin phrased it, leads me to believe she is claiming to be paranoid of me too.

The reason it's important to me is that how can she be paranoid if she's never seen me as scum? Like she makes me out to be this hyper amazing scum player but if she can't even tell you what I do as scum or where she's seen me as scum, does it make any sense for a read to be inhibited because I have a "good scumgame?"

Basically- mastin is bullshitting her read on me and I want to prove it, and she is explicitly avoiding it so it can't be proven bullshit

[Seiko x Naomi]

scorpious it is extremely frustrating when you ask me things that should be obvious to nayone who has read my posts

Mastin.

I think singer's town.

I don't care for a psycholone lynch.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't know how I feel about mastin's response.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Mollie I know I'm a broken record but can you talk to me about mastin

I'm really back and forth because I have the rational side of my head going "this is an excuse to avoid commenting, she should just come out wit hit I'll be fine" but then the irrational side is nervous I won't. Like it makes no sense how you can get an offensive answer off of what I asked

[Seiko x Naomi]

mollie can you talk to me about your mastin read?

notty is asking me about it too so i will a little bit, i am just not sure how helpful it will be.

when mastina is scum she gets really excited at the prospect of gleefully deceiving pple and talking them into going against their better judgment. she gets a kick out of it. she loves playing scum cos she get to move players around like chess pieces like she is so happy playing scum that she just can't hide especially from me. that is so not what I am seeing in this game at all. I see some1 who is confused but is trying to work with their townreads. some1 like me.

I still do not understand what i am seeing in this game, a lot of stuff is simply not adding up. I feel like I am missing something and i know i am driving every1 crazy cos I am jumping on every little thing but a ton of stuff are just not making sense to me. I think every1 looks scummy even my townreads. god I hope I don't make it to endgame I don't envy any1 who does.

I'm just trying to make sense of it because I think you and singer are town but then I kinda just hit a wall and am not sure where to go.

Singer's scumreading me and I don't know why and I cant' do anything about it because I don't know why

antiika have had activity issues for outside reasons so I can just judge based off hteir ativity like i would want to

I dont think Ive ever seen mastin misread me. like ive always been town against/with her and shes always townreads me and her being paranoid of me here is throwing me all out of wack

Then we have varsoon playing so freaking aggressively this game it makes no sense given how hep layed in saki like he had no clue what was going on and here hes like take no prisoners even regardless of his clai mits sketchy as fuck

nachogiffy being a nonentity bugs me but doctor claim

I think tippy's been a nonentity and people all think hes scum but a wagon just isnt getting started and I think that reminds me a lot of how oversoul was in wtp

I think zzthings is overreacting because his pride is bruised and all his flipping out is null

I dont know what to think about bulba

And I keep going back to mastin because you keep saying shes town and im trying to understand how she fits into the puzzle in my head

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: zzzx

Tippy tomorrow though.

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: tippy

This is what we are doing today.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'll just be over here.

Voting scum.

That is known for having a lurk heavy meta.

And has less posts that the mod.

[Seiko x Naomi]

We have 3 flipped scum and I still have too many scumreads.

Atm I think its Tippy/prohawk/someone.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I admittedly had no idea scorpious was a tree stump until I just checked.

whoops.

Which wagon do you endorse?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Then vote him for great justice!

that question was at scorpious btw

[Seiko x Naomi]

What she's saying is that if someone selfhammers as scum and oyu have a sensor like that, why not check the wagon to see if two scumteams voted him? You already know one did.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Ika that post is scummy as fuck that you just quoted

She's trying to understand how town could properly use that ability and you are throwing "I USED IT HOW I SAW FIT" and I can understand mollie's issue with that because she's trying to take how she used her ability out of the scope of the game as a way to read her which is sketch.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Cut the woe is me bullshit.

We're lynching TIP today.

[Seiko x Naomi]

UNVOTE:

TIP claim, I don't care to see a quickhammer.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I lost track of the votes on him.

[Seiko x Naomi]

VOTE: tip

[Seiko x Naomi]

Theres not much I an do about it

I think the last 3 scum are mastin/prohawk/tip

soooooo

[Seiko x Naomi]

Theres not much I an do about it

I think the last 3 scum are mastin/prohawk/tip

soooooo

okay so are you thinking 2 scum teams then? sorry but I disagree about mastina.

Yes, and I know.

[Seiko x Naomi]

When a mommy scum and a daddy scum love each other veeeeeeeeeeeery much..

[Seiko x Naomi]

I've literally been voting him the entire day.

And yesterday.

mastin's town because mollie says so, but

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG

[Seiko x Naomi]

Almost as lol as being paranoid over me for a reason you aren't saying and being paranoid over pie who hasnt done jack shit since early day 2!

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm still back on p130 and have only been loosely following for the past while but if the Aeris/Xtoxm wagon still exists and you all actually lynch him i'm coming back in here and terrorizing the game like i did on D1

in other news, i might actually be able to catch up and actually start doing stuff tonight! maybe

Spoiler:

probably not but don't tell anyone i said that

[Seiko x Naomi]

I feel like I made a big fucking deal about pie not being here yesterday.

I also feel like mastin vastly overestimates my knowledge of the intricacies of her meta.

I also am perfectly fine voting her.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Huh.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Mollie can you sell me on a vote.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I still don't understand why we are flat out ignoring a guilty because someone's proclaiming themselves conftown without actually backing it up.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Jaqen, elaborate.

[Seiko x Naomi]

i've decided fuck reading, i'll just play starting from now. ftr, the last page i read was p130 or so and notsci updated me on all the relevant shit since then.

fortunately, Jaqen (flipped tracker) claimed a guilty on mastin? this seems like ez modo.

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm at least glad to see my scum reads D1 weren't utter shit. i have no idea how anyone could have read Kaboose's posts and thought they were remotely town

[Seiko x Naomi]

Since the investigations conflict, they basically nullify each other...and you go off of play.

what do you think could have interfered with one of the results?

[Seiko x Naomi]

putting this here before doing anything else. forgive me if you all have been over this already:

2x arsonist
1x materia thief
action empowerer
modified tracker
1x sensor

2x amnesiac cop traitor
?
?

goon
2x roleblock inventor
odd night turk rolecop

doctor, jailkeeper, 1x bulletproof

i don't think all of these are town roles and of all of these i remember Radja (Psychlone-slot) being the least town.

i also don't think we have uneven scum teams unless shinra is all goons or something. has anyone posted anything ruling out 15-4-4?

[Seiko x Naomi]

also, i'm going to look at what Bulba's reads were given that would indicate he was the Shinra kill

[Seiko x Naomi]

Kaboose's role is such that he would know if he was redirected: full role means full role.
Thus, when he investigated me, he knew he had investigated me and that I was town.

is this mod-confirmed? i don't think that's how it would work.

[Seiko x Naomi]

also swap Shinra with Meteor in all my previous posts >.>

[Seiko x Naomi]

remind me what the sensor result was. we know there's only one scum faction on the ZZZX wagon?

[Seiko x Naomi]

he wouldn't get the role pm of the person he was redirected onto? that's what i would expect

[Seiko x Naomi]

If he was redirected, he'd receive the quoted role PM of another player...thus giving away the fact that he was redirected. He'd know this, and be calling the player redirected to as town.

i don't see how it would give away the fact he was redirected. from his POV, he'd just get an entirely different role PM and assume it was yours, no?

[Seiko x Naomi]

why was Jaqen saying yesterday that Cv666 had "all but claimed" last Shinra scum and was asking to be leashed? do I need to read into that or was it Jaqen being Jaqen?

[Seiko x Naomi]

also, did Jaqen hold his claim until D5 or had he claimed earlier than that? the reason i'm asking is i don't get why a scum redirector would be randomly redirecting people if they had reason to believe Kaboose was an investigative role (which even if mastin *isn't* scum, the way he was crumbing it looks pretty obvious in hindsight?).

if i had to take a guess without reading anything, i'd say mastin/Psychlone + hiplop if there's another

[Seiko x Naomi]

/me checks what mafia goon investigates as to a rolecop

Oh, that's strange, it says vanilla?

/me checks Jaqen's flip and claim

lol.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Am I the only one cracking up at mastina trying to use a rolecop to clear herself

[Seiko x Naomi]

mastina, you know as well as i do that i can't read you for shit. this is even more so the case in a multiball setup when i would expect you to be capable of playing a much more town scumgame than in a normal game (even though i think i'm starting to get a better handle on how you play in singleball setups).

i want to see you as town. but i can't see it making sense that a scum redirector would randomly target an unclaimed person with a protective role claimed and Kaboose blatantly crumbing an investigative role; i can, on the other hand, see you being meteor scum, picking up on the crumbs, and then redirecting him hoping to false clear someone.

soooooo i'm at an impasse

[Seiko x Naomi]

But pie we're supposed to know she wouldnt make this claim unless she was being 100% legitimate!

I bet it's in those mystery scumgames of mine!

[Seiko x Naomi]

And if I'm scum, I can only be Meteor.
Meaning that if I'm scum.
I fucking killed my only. fucking. ally.

huntress did it to me before. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i don't think any scum player would expect their traitor to also be an amnesiac cop

[Seiko x Naomi]

Damn straight I'm an asshole.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Has mastin flavorclaimed?

[Seiko x Naomi]

The IC this game was Aeris Gainsborough...and I'm her mother, Elmyra Gainsborough. And very, very obviously, a Vanilla Townie. My flavor mentions losing my husband in the war, taking solace in my adaptive daughter, and suspecting she was destined for great things (I 'crumbed this early on), providing a happy home in the strife.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Strange, she doesn't sound like a turk.

Call me nuts, but I expect that word being in the rolename is rather important.

[Seiko x Naomi]

hai ika

[Seiko x Naomi]

mastin I think you need to stop posting and come back when you're not just raging every post.

[Seiko x Naomi]

so wait

psychlone claimed to have protected Cephrir the night Cephrir died (which Radja retracted). we now have probably all the Shinra flips and there's no strongman.

???

the alternative is that meteor scum redirected psychlone off their traitor and then shot them which ROFL if that's the case

[Seiko x Naomi]

how are you?

also can you vote mastin plz. i can prob convince mollie to vote as well

i'm probably about to pass out any second now :<

i'm not voting yet. i want to do some reading first which will probably be tomorrow.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Ika I asked her for her flavor, don't be an ass.

[Seiko x Naomi]

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Turks

[Seiko x Naomi]

IU AAVE BEEN FAVUKG TOWN PLAYUER, WHO WAS BEING LYNCHED FOR BULLSHIT REASONS WHEN IF PEOPLE VIEWED MY PLAY AND NOT THE ROLES THEY'D HAEVE REALIZED IT.

+ Touhou Makai Mix.

i've seen it enough times that i can see the writing on the wall by now, which is part of why i'm trying to figure this out in more detail.

[Seiko x Naomi]

mastin, do you remember tales 2

do you remember how much people hated to read through that game

What you are doing now is leading us toward that path.

Calm down.

[Seiko x Naomi]

i could see Antagonist as scum

that's something i wanted to look into at some point that won't be tonight

is there any reason Anti is gone? mostly out of curiosity.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Just so we're clear, I fully remember what alignment you were.

Calm the fuck down mastin.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Learn to tell the two of us apart before you try to demand anything.

[Seiko x Naomi]

You can go cool off too.

[Seiko x Naomi]

and there's...... a claimed doc who claims to protect vt's over claimed trackers and jailkeeper

don't forget the fact that they claimed to protect Cephrir the night he died when the other scum team didn't have a strongman (which I still don't have any good explanation for)

vote: Radja

[Seiko x Naomi]

also going to admit I misread one of mastin's posts re me and tbh I agree it doesn't make sense she'd kill Kaboose if she was scum here.

soooo IDK what to do. more when I get home

[Seiko x Naomi]

This is wrong, btw.

GIF claimed that, yes.
Radja took it back and said there was no action submitted N3.

why would gif have claimed it if they didn't actually do it, though?

honestly, the paranoid side of me thinks Radja saw that claiming a doc on Cephrir made no sense and that's why he retracted it. it wouldn't be the first time i've seen scum alter a predecessor's claim

[Seiko x Naomi]

also i could have sworn nacho was the one who claimed it but, might be remembering wrong

[Seiko x Naomi]

mastina, you think the doc, JK, and 1x BP are all town roles?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Spoiler: Kaboose D1-D3

Mastin, if I recall correctly, every game we've been in you've town read me out of the gate. You even town read me before I posted in this game. So your posts don't make sense when you kept saying how you forgot how much you scum read me.

VOTE: mastin

Because at first i was all like "Hey look at these awesome reads, it's nice someone going out of there way to really give everyone a talking point!"

Then there was the casual town null read on me before my first post was even made.

Then I made a post or two, someone calls me scum, and Mastin hops on it and says she always scum reads me in games(which isn't even true in fact I would argue from memory that it's the exact opposite).

So basically for lying and being a parrot.

VOTE: mastin

i want to lynch this

Why?

From his post I get the sense that he wants to work together with people. Which is quite the opposite I get from players like Antagonist, and Seiko. However I get those feelings with you and Varsoon.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. You just make me want to not give you any attention because that's all you're doing is begging for attention. It's so annoying.

im not though? im just laughing at hwo wrong that is

pedit: ill echo other people things: do you have a town read on mastin?

I had a scum read on them from D1, but they haven't posted in forever. I forgot they were playing until I went in to your ISO and saw the vote.

hi kaboose!

I took post 269 to mean that you wanted mastina left alone since you said you wanted to fos anybody who questioned mastina giving reads.

shld I not have interpreted it that way?

also do you remember off hand the game we played together in micros? I am pretty sure it was micros and it is easier for you to look up your games than me to go trawling through mine.

Yeah when Mastin first posted that list of reads really early. I liked it. Seemed town. She called me town in that post. Then either her next post or the one right after it... "kaboose is feeling scum to me"

Which made me feel she forgot her initials reads which I would assume would happen if they were false reads anyways. I will find the posts to show you.

Also, I will see if I can find the game. I thought it was a greater idea game where we were scum together maybe? But I have a terrible recollection of games and who is in them or who was what after it's over. So I will just see what I can find.

12. Kaboose
^I'm gonna go with town.

(And good

god

I forgot how much I always scumread Kaboose. Someone else can tackle Kaboose; no matter how many times I try, I don't see myself getting out of confbias mode there, so permanull.

This didn't add up to me. I still don't like it. Because one of them is a fake read.

Also it wasn't exactly the next post, I'm surprised how many posts Mastin has.

Kaboose - I asked you a bit ago what games Mastin town read you in, but I don't think you ever answered it.

She townread me in Street Racers, I was scum, she was town.

She townread me in a UPICK where we submitted GIFs to get roles, but she was scum I was town.

Those are honestly the only two games I think we've played together. So when I saw her post that is why I was really interested in her lynch D1 but then she disappeared and I forgot about her.

VOTE: mastin

Happy with this for sure.

Sorry I've just caught myself reading everything and not posting anything.

Mastin should be lynched today.

Spoiler: Kaboose D4

Mastin/Varsoon

May I have reads? They don't have to be detailed, just general feelings on players.

what's your opinion on Varsoon and Mastin? Scum or town?

@Varsoon, I'm going to wait for Mastin to post theirs and then I'll comment.

A man is liking Mastin for orange scum until there is only one night kill. Now a man isn't so sure.

This I don't understand now. I only went back and looked at it because I thought it was about Varsoon to realize it was about Mastin.

What about one night kill would prevent Mastin from being specifically orange scum?

Didn't like Antagonist lambasting the ZZZX wagon at the end of yesterday and then hammering it. I know people are going to tell me it's an Ika thing, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

Vote The Antagonist

Know what? I'm just gonna sheep Bulbazak and let him lead us to victory.
VOTE: Vote: The Antagonist.
(Or ruin, I suppose if I'm horribly, horribly wrong, but I'm not.)

Guess I'll play sheep, too.
VOTE: The Antagonist

These two are my biggest town reads because srs reasons.

VOTE: antagonist

whether it's honest or not, this is pretty blatantly an inno crumb on mastin. ???

[Seiko x Naomi]

Antagonist is completely ignoring the Turk rolecop role.

i don't think this is remotely true and i dunno where you're getting this from

Seiko: Why does protecting Cephrir not make sense?

because it's literally impossible, which i laid out in a previous post

the only way ceph could have died with you/pschylone protecting him is if the shinra team had a strongman, which they didn't, or if they didn't know ceph was traitor, redirected psychlone off ceph, and shot him, which i'm just hoping isn't the case for now because oh my god. and that relies on the assumption bork doesn't allow traitor to be NK-proof or recruitable (which i'm kinda hoping he wouldn't do)

[Seiko x Naomi]

-pieguyn

[Seiko x Naomi]

if anything i think it *would* make sense for a Shinra rolecop to be able to find someone on the other faction

but i also think it would make sense for it to only be able to identify town, so while i agree it's a nonsensical argument, i don't read it either way

[Seiko x Naomi]

my picks for the meteor scum are radja and cerberus
VOTE: radja
how do you not protect a claimed tracker? that's just a no-brainer.

Bluntly, if either of them were Meteor, I'd be dead.

Meteor has to have been on my wagon.

And, frankly, I'm thinking that Meteor has to be on this Radja wagon, too.

why the fuck would scum-mastina say this

[Seiko x Naomi]

Just so we're all clear, I was the one who first brought up the whole "Turk" stuff.

[Seiko x Naomi]

i want to say this game is easy and that it's just Radja/hawk/hiplop

sometime this afternoon i want to sit down and look at some stuff in more depth

[Seiko x Naomi]

Instead, he claimed to protect...a player that half the game wanted to lynch, Antagonist.

the entire point is that if he's scum here he likely DIDN'T REALIZE how little since protecting antagonist actually made

also the looking more in-depth into stuff i wanted to do will have to wait until tomorrow bc holy shit i'm too tired -.-

[Seiko x Naomi]

*sense

[Seiko x Naomi]

also, if mastin is scum i am just going to firmly enact a policy of "lynch all guilties" in every game i'm in from now on because that would be the second time a guilty happened and didn't go through to a lynch. i blame shitplayers like haj and dramonic who fake guilties for no reason

[Seiko x Naomi]

Problem: if Radja is scum, he has a scumbuddy, and scumchat.

You honestly think that there isn't PR talk in their topic? Even if you make the assumption that scum don't have daytalk (I don't know borkgames well enough to tell; I think they don't because when I was a mason I didn't have daytalk if memory serves me but I'm not absolutely sure), it's guaranteed to have come up during the night.

Throw in the possibility of daychat where there's a scumbuddy actively there to fill him in?

i don't really make as much out of this as much as you seem to

it's possible that, for instance, they just happened to not talk about what he should fake claim. or it's possible that he claimed it without consulting them first. in both of these cases, this is more so the case if he protected a partner and thus decided to bullshit a target.

this explanation is kinda half-assed and if it doesn't make sense bug me tomorrow when i'm less tired

[Seiko x Naomi]

ugh fuck this.

unvote:

question, do we all agree there isn't any gamestate where mastina and hawk are both town?

[Seiko x Naomi]

also i need to see if Fresh would have been capable of faking that replace out as scum.

[Seiko x Naomi]

vote: hiplop

[Seiko x Naomi]

notty we are not lynching hippy today

that wasn't notsci

Seiko: I do not believe that no game state exists in which prohask/mastin are both scum, but I'm fairly paranoid. A reasonable person would probably find it impossible for them to both be scum, I merely find it improbable.

i meant a gamestate where they were both town

if there's not, then the correct play is to lynch out of one of them today so that it gets resolved before the worst-case potential LYLO (tomorrow), which is why i was asking

[Seiko x Naomi]

you haven't stepped back and considered that stuff like that is exactly why everyone is sitting here freaking out that the guilty might not be accurate?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I fucking hate this game.

it sucks that the person who there's a guilty on is the one person in this game who I conclusively can't read for shit.

[Seiko x Naomi]

like, where I'm at is that I don't see mastin faking all this frustration as scum and that I agree that she hasn't faked it in any game up to this point. and that it would just be sad if she is scum here because it'd create a lot of trust issues for me in that I wouldn't be able to see her frustration in any subsequent games as town + I would never want to not lynch a guilty in subsequent games.

*if* mastin is town here, I'd be fairly sure that hawk/hiplop is 2/2. I'm not sure who the third would be in that case if there is one (which I would assume there is) although I would guess one of the protective roles.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'm ridiculously easy to read. Probably one of the easiest players to read on the site when you look at the simple. basic. things. Being, Am I trying to figure the game out, and plan for the town to win...or am I successfully manipulating events so that scum will profit regardless of the outcome of things? Night and day. The difference in my game is night and day. Always. I can always tell when I'm being an obvscum player, and I can always tell when I've towned it up.

this would be true and all except I have no idea what you're capable of doing in a multiball game. and meta from several years ago doesn't really make me feel any better since it's likely your play would have changed/improved since then.

another possibility that I just thought of is that Kaboose got a scum result on you, but decided to claim it as a town result for strategic reasons. it would be a huge tipoff if he walked in here and claimed he had a guilty on you, for instance, which would likely result him him being crosskilled - this is even more a priority if he was the last surviving member of his faction. this is the scenario we'd be dealing with if it turns out there isn't a redirector in the game.

do you think Fresh would have replaced out in the way that he did if he was scum here?

[Seiko x Naomi]

like, if this was singleball I'd write you off as town and call it a day.

I don't like multiball games </complaining about a game I knew I was signing up for>

[Seiko x Naomi]

fresh's play was in general pretty horrible. the only reason I have for seeing him as town is the way he replaced out

[Seiko x Naomi]

mastin, would you go 1v1 on hawk? as in, if he flips town you get lynched tomorrow?

this is obviously a dumb idea and i wouldn't enforce it unless everyone in the game thinks there's no way both of you could be town, i want to know for other reasons

GEE AND GUESS WHAT, HE CLAIMED AN INNOCENT AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM, HE GOT CROSSKILLED.

remember he didn't claim it, he crumbed it. an inno crumb is a lot more innocuous than "this person is guilty, lynch them".

[Seiko x Naomi]

pie you can answer that too

not really, no. the issue I'm running into, though, is that hiplop's jump onto him weirded me out.

do you think radja's town?

fuck

even gif OR nacho for that matter

GIF yes, Nacho looked like what I'd expect Nacho to do as scum in multiball so IDK.

[Seiko x Naomi]

it must be really rare for me to hydra slip when someone gets confused when I requote the posts I made on the wrong account.

[Seiko x Naomi]

that was me (pie) too. but I can follow along with it for now.

vote: Radja

[Seiko x Naomi]

paranoid question.

why would Kaboose have died if it weren't for someone picking up on the fact he was an investigative role?

[Seiko x Naomi]

I don't make much of this bc it could just as easily be a huge coincidence, but I'd feel a lot better if someone has a coherent explanation for it.

[Seiko x Naomi]

so Anti/ika: you both saw Inorganic Chemistry where mastin was scum and would have won the game except for the glorious turnaround at the last second. what do you think about her play here vs. her play there?

I don't really think it looks similar and this is part of what I meant when I said I would want to read her based on the reads she's pushing; from what I followed of that game I thought her push on Sonic Boom looked really off and I haven't picked up anything similar from the majority of her pushes this game. but, I admittedly can't read her for shit.

[Seiko x Naomi]

also a possibility I want to throw out there is that Jaqen *did* investigate mastin N3 and that it wasn't redirected, but that he got a went-nowhere result and just didn't believe it. this would be incredibly dumb, but if I'm being perfectly honest, it wouldn't remotely surprise me if this is what happened.

I am going to immensely regret so much as bringing this up. -.-

[Seiko x Naomi]

this is going to sound absolutely batshit, but jaqen's initial claim that he had a guilty on mastin was on august 28 (4 days after daystart). jaqen got mislynched by mastin-scum in inorganic and confirmed in the dead PT that mastin was indeed scum on august 27. the first mention of the mastin guilty was the first post he made in this game after he posted in the dead PT for inorganic.

i am strongly considering the possibility that jaqen's "guilty" was done because of this - either entirely out of revenge or because he thought mastin was playing similarly here as she was there even if he didn't have an outright guilty on her. i absolutely hate to consider this and my apologies in advance to jaqen if it was a legitimate guilty and mastin is indeed scum here, but i feel like this whole thing is just a huge distraction.

[Seiko x Naomi]

i wouldn't even consider this if jaqen didn't have a history of pulling insane shit as town (in my second game with him, he outed himself as pr and attempted to pull a slayer's gambit getting himself lynched on d1 when we woulda lynched scum otherwise)

but the two guilties i've seen recently in games i've been in have both been entirely faked, by town players, on town, so i'm paranoid that could be what's going on here. i'm interested in what parallels you're seeing to mastin's play in that game, though.

[Seiko x Naomi]

How the HELL did you beat me to MY OWN DAMN POINT that I've been WAITING FOR HALF A MONTH TO SAY?!?

<3

(I later realized the result was real, and he'd been redirected.)

can you walk me through this again (or link if I missed it)?

[Seiko x Naomi]

Jaqen Hghar was Red XIII
Aligned with The Planet [Town Modified Tracker]

Receives results on any active abilities performed, or any factional abilities performed only if no active ability was also performed.

i took this to mean he _tracks_ factional abilities if no active abilities are performed, not outright learns what they are

No. Stop misunderstanding. There is NO indication that his results indicate whether the ability he tracked was factional, or individual. NONE! There is only the indication that he is only tracking one ability, and it shows the priority by which those ability's will be tracked.

^this

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm giving myself a checkpoint

at this point, i feel close to 100% that aeris/xtoxm and the antagonist are town

8. Cerberus v666
9. pirate mollie
10. hiplop
13. mastin2
14. Prohawk
15. Radja

i feel relatively comfortable saying one of the protective roles has to be scum, aka 1 scum in Cv666, mollie, Radja. i'm actually considering that it might be Cv666 because out of all of these claims i think bulletproof makes a lot of sense as a scum role and i really, really, really hated everything fresh did when he was in the game, but based on play i would say Radja is scum. i think his non-consecutive target modifier is probably legitimate even if he is a scum doc, btw, so i'm not really factoring that into account in terms of how i'm reading him. i also think if there are 4 meteor scum (which is what i'm assuming) having two town protective roles makes the most sense in this setup.

from there, we have 1-2 scum in hiplop, mastina, hawk. and if i'm being perfectly honest, i think this implicates hiplop and hawk a lot more than mastina. i don't see mastina and hawk on the same scum team. i *could* potentially see mastina and hiplop. but i think that hawk and hiplop makes a lot more sense than either of these pairs.

i'm going to straight up admit i haven't looked too much into this, but, meh. i've been busy recently.

[Seiko x Naomi]

yeeeahhh i won't be able to do any in-depth reading until this weekend

[Seiko x Naomi]

i still think jaqen probably made up his result, btw

based on every game i've been in recently, i've been conditioned to think that if the claimed night actions don't add up and there's a guilty involved, and that the guilty doesn't make any sense, the person is just faking the guilty. so maybe i'm just biased?

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm not lynching mastin

if this is horribly wrong, i'll take all the blame for this loss

[Seiko x Naomi]

I also don't like mastin telling me who I should protect.

so.......
you're (supposedly) so lost in the ether that you don't know where to find your asshole
BUT WHOOPS, JUST KIDDING, ON THE OTHER HAND TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO IS SCUMMY

i have decided that i am just going to spam this until radja gets lynched

that seems like a good idea

[Seiko x Naomi]

Mastin > Mollie > Antagonist > Seiko - SCUM

you think that the way mastina has been pushing The Antagonist all game, despite a majority of players town reading The Anatagonist the majority of the game, is likely to be indicative of scum partners?

Side Note: Mastin hits L-1 around VC 6.2. If there were any of Cerb, Mollie, Radja, or Seiko who are scum and Mastin is town. SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN HAMMERED.

this also seems pretty blatantly false. what would you have expected one of us to do, just walk in here and hammer? because if this is the case, you're ignoring what happens the day after if mastina gets lynched and flips town (what would you expect to happen to the person who hammered in that case?), and if not, i'm pretty sure at least one person declared intent to hammer iirc

[Seiko x Naomi]

radja has done literally nothing to game solve the entire time he's been here. he's just been sitting around asking for claims and complaining that no one is helping him get caught up in the game. it's scum who isn't sure what type of content they should be faking, so they just attempt to coast and hope no one calls them on it.

i haven't had any time to read anything but i'm still at least forming reads and i've been more than capable of going back and looking at claims, or anything else that happened in the game, myself if i need to check something. there's been a lot of shit discussed this game day. has radja made any attempt to take a stance on any of it?

[Seiko x Naomi]

literally the only thing giving me pause about radja is GIF's posts when he was in the game.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Tell me, what theory are you buying into that Mastin's guilty just isn't a guilty?

i think jaqen was just lying

which i'm aware is shit logic, but i don't think mastin's play makes any sense as mafia (and i'm aware that i can't read mastin for shit, but o well, i'll happily accept the fact that i'm bad at this game if i'm wrong here) and my usual instinct when seeing situations like this is that the person with the guilty is just faking it.

[Seiko x Naomi]

I have reasons beyond Mastin's posts to believe her town.

After the above, meaning he was still saying he had the result.

^ ya this

i can't look at that and think it's *not* a soft

[Seiko x Naomi]

i can't look at that and think it's *not* a soft

Except for the words "believe" right? Because that sounds pretty soft to me...

yes, it fucking is. "i have role reasons to believe mastin is town" IS A FUCKING SOFT. it doesn't matter if you use "believe", or "know", or what the fuck ever; you're claiming you have outside information suggesting someone else is a certain alignment. that is all there is to it

and i will feel like absolute shit if you are town here and what you're saying is correct, but when you attempt to nitpick word choice like this, it just reaffirms my suspicion that mastina is town and correct that you're scum here.

[Seiko x Naomi]

what is the current votecount?

if no one links one i'll figure it out in a few minutes

[Seiko x Naomi]

i was going to instavote hawk but ika beat me to it. oh well

[Seiko x Naomi]

hawk, hiplop, Radja imo. sometime this weekend i'll take a closer look and make sure i'm not missing something incredibly obvious

also i'm operating under the assumption we're in LYLO, so outside of ika's vote, no one else vote for the time being.

[Seiko x Naomi]

i am going to be blunt

that i have such a strong scum read on you that i'd instavote you in what under any reasonable assumption is LYLO should be indicative of how willing i'd be to work with you here

if it turns out you're town, then sorry? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Seiko x Naomi]

and ya what ika said