Tarot uPick II - GAME OVER

[Idiocy]

Hi

What's up peps!
Second half confirming.

[Idiocy]

1) Good luck getting us lynched because I'm sure as fuck not going to artificially deflate my post when it's fun to post and I'm in the greatest hydra on both side of the Mississippi.

As I suppose this is nacho, what has changed between the time you felt like posting a lot as ghatokaca was harmful in Poe upick and now?

Yep, kagami-head is doing the posting for Day 1.

Keima-anime is excellent. I hope you watched the goddess arc, which is brilliant.

I think OT, PN, and KN are town. What do you think?

I've only seen season one.

OT maybe but their vote is one me so gaffaw.

PN didn't make much of an impression.

Not sure on Konowa.

It's pretty early yet, I really don't have many reads at all. Maaaaaaaaaaaybe a medea town read, but I think I have markers for both of their town games now, so!

I like this as it is the first player disagreeing with the common OT townread, which I feel is very much undeserved after the first few pages.

Not townreading Medea.

I felt the same thing when I read his first string of posts. I feel that cabd's string of posts looks pretty town at first sight, so I'm calling you town for same thought process as me for now.

[Idiocy]

Spoiler: @Tammy

Hey Tammy, this is Echo, and I'm sorry if you felt offended by the post I had made. You're probably reading this in the morning after a night's rest so I hope you feel more sober and rational now. It was late, you were under the influence of alcohol, judgment was impaired, and things escalated quickly. It's okay. I was just poking you because of your comment about Nacho's illiteracy and interpretation skills, so I posted this #286, but you didn't respond, so I chose a better opportunity to get your attention. It did, however on hindsight it was in bad taste, especially when you already displayed signs of not reading carefully and was inebriated, which made you overly sensitive. I thought that you would be able to take a hint of badassery and dish a good one back in return, but instead you got the wrong idea. I'm sorry about that. You even thought that I was elusive, which was actually kind of funny but tensed everything up. I tried to diffuse the tension in #306 and I hope you can see my efforts here to salvage a bad joke but once you called me scum and an asshat, it was clear to me that you should calm down. Nacho also noticed you and tried to engage you with logical arguments, but you handwaved them all despite being perfectly valid. At that point, I told you to go to bed. I did the gracious thing (and the healthier one for the gamestate) which was to leave the conversation and not stoke the fire in a heated argument. Tammy, you're a great person which is why everyone wants to hydra with you, so please stop taking things the wrong way. Try to assume the good in everyone before lashing out at them, to avoid misunderstanding. It hurts people. It hurt me.

All that aside, I would argue that people actually "attacking you" like that would be a towntell, not a scumtell. Considering that I asked you to hydra, it suggests that I knew you -- it stands to reason that the optimal scum strategy (when scum know you're town) is to buddy and be nice to you. Furthermore, it is well known on the site that you are skilled at obv-towning quickly; antagonizing you while knowing that you're town would be a serious mistake. I don't think any legitimate scum would do that. I don't know if you're town or scum (although you are leaning town to me), so even if I did "attack you" that way (which I didn't do intentionally, if it did), you should be townreading me for it, not the other way round. I'm not too concerned about this, however, as both pieguyn and myself are also fairly good at obv-towning.

Anyway, let's keep this a happy game so that we can all work together to catch the scum. Arguments like this give scum room to hide.

Truce?

This post feels too apologetic and I think the "we are town together let's go catch the scum" is overdone

VOTE: kuroko

btw Echo Echo asked me to hydra as well, but I refused. I'm pretty sure I know who he is, too.

This seems like a very lazy attempt to slip on a vote on whom he thinks is the largest wagon -- he might not be aware that there is only one vote on me.

I'd expect town to at least say "Oh, and Kuroko is scum", or "I agree with Tammy's points" before making that vote. However, his subsequent statement does not have any link whatsoever to any reasoning for his vote.

Also, I doubt he knows who I am.

Ok, so, you think wisdom has no idea what the biggest wagon is?

As I suppose this is nacho, what has changed between the time you felt like posting a lot as ghatokaca was harmful in Poe upick and now?

That was F-16.
We were also lying scum, we just wanted to lurk that game.

When I read your post I got the feeling that you were completely opposing your previous (scum) views so people who'd seen you as ghato would think you were town. Do you remember having the viewpoint you have in this game regarding posting a lot before and can you maybe show quotes of you sharing this viewpoint?

Wis, why did you share your townread of tammy?

[Idiocy]

No, don't go counter-question me. I don't think tammy was townread at that point, so you obviously decided to add some new viewpoint. But I don't understand why, which is why I'm asking. Has she been obvtowning, you feel?

[Idiocy]

god you're annoying but I really do not want to lynch you

[Idiocy]

This is a game with a fuckton of hydra, so we all need to be considerate of our postcounts. Please please please try to keep them under control, if someone's posting gets over the top out of control they need to be purged

Notscience:

1) Good luck getting us lynched because I'm sure as fuck not going to artificially deflate my post when it's fun to post and I'm in the greatest hydra on both side of the Mississippi.

2) If you're serious about changing the spam meta, the important things to cut down on are more objective than postcount. I've never understood why it is difficult to scroll past a string of 5 posts of someone having fun. In my opinion, it's the protracted arguments where people say the same thing over and over again instead of looking and comprehending another player's argument that provide damage to game state and the way you change that is by playing with extra care and consideration, not by threatening to policy lynch people who don't play the way you want them to.

-Grandpa Oil

Cabd's playing well if scum.
I would rather talk to penguin though because penguin!!!

No offense Cabd

Unfortunately that's not as viable

Spoiler: IRL Shit, people who don't care can skip

She had a knee blowout tonight and is sort of in incredible amounts of pain, so posting will be limited and likely venty; direct questions can be relayed through me if need be. If she's feeling better she'll hop back in but no major promises.

Tell her I hope she feels better!

Also, I'm treating you like a live snake until further notice, Cabd.

what do you think?

[Idiocy]

VOTE: kuroko

I feel this is the right place to vote rn

[Idiocy]

This is the other half of the idiocy hydra.
I'm making notes when I can since the game started, I have 10 more pages to read but so far I agreed with Tier's read on kuroko and I was telling Tier I was finding fluffy spot scummy.
I'm finishing my reads and will just poor out the rest of my thoughts here since I may finally be catching up.

idiocy is at the end of the list. whereas the rest of names show up in the opening post player list order.

I don't get it either.

Have you guys realized I'm a special town snowflake yet?

No

unvote;

Guy quoting every post is town. Ffery's given post restrictions in the past and I don't think she's that evil to give this restriction to scum.

Will post properly when I get home.

My money is on that not being a post restriction

VOTE: kuroko

I feel this is the right place to vote rn

Why?

Tier didn't explain his scum read to me, but I was scum reading the spot for a lot of double talk and the push on Wisdom reads pretty fake.

Outside of his "looks town" reads, Anen's reads list looks incredibly safe; I'd like to see him elaborate more on his scum reads/leans when he gets back.

Hmm I felt it was incredibly bad in my eyes.

I don't like the way Cephrir is handling this, and his above post is no exception. It's not scum hunting, it's him seeing votes on us and thinking he can go along with it while hoping no one realizes his push doesn't hold water. 477 is nothing but semantic nonsense (it's fairly obvious Echo's point is that Wisdom does have reasoning behind the read on us, just that it's incredibly poor). The post where he voted us (Echo's 421) is actually a fairly concise explanation of what is wrong with Wisdom's play here, followed by more semantic nonsense (Echo wasn't even suggesting a policy lynch in that post).

I don't mind AJ's vote as much.

This looks further from the truth.

*puts kamiga in town piles*

Wisdom: Why are you being so trolly? What is the point?

this post from Muki reads very choppy Basically took post he saw and just quoted them without showing how he got to that thought process.

I kind of like Zelink's post 630, some admittedly I glazed over, but this was better because I feel at least I'm not the only one doubting Medea read. All I saw too was the posting about game stuff and really no scum hunting. I think I'm bias toward Cabd though.

@muki what does this have to do with anything?

What about that is strawmanning? He literally asked me why I posted a townread, what am I supposed to say to that?

The way I understood it, Idiocy was asking you to expand on your town-read of Tammy. The form of the question doesn't really make sense, though, I agree on that front.

I completely refuse to read the wall post of zelink at this point.
Someone can give me the TL'DR version I would love you, but I don't expect it.

this post is crap I'm calling it crap because you accuse us of not responding to the questions asked when neither of us had posted since the questions where asked.
Why is AJ scum and how can you read Bin's wishy washy crap as town?

[Idiocy]

Yeah I caught up finally!!!!

*cries*

Stop fucking wasting space with nonsense or I will knock sense into you people!

*sigh*

The TL'DR part for those that want it.

kuroko - scum
Muki - scum
Fluffy - scum lean
Medea - scum lean

I have town reads too for those that care.

[Idiocy]

im not being trolly?

It reads very trollish. You seem to be side stepping questions asked by poking at kuroko occasionally. I wondered if it was for reaction or to piss the player off or you were unaware (which I doubted)

[Idiocy]

why scum lean on fluffy and medea?

Fluff Central (hydra of notscience and bins)

this post is crap I'm calling it crap because you accuse us of not responding to the questions asked when neither of us had posted since the questions where asked.
Why is AJ scum and how can you read Bin's wishy washy crap as town?

As for Medea all he did was talk game and then go disappear after. The lets not do this or that in the game is all just cheep talk for me.

[Idiocy]

well yeah, when i see people thinking they can meta read me, i troll them. especially given i know who echo is and it's extra funny

i dont get why that quote indicates fluff scum? And I don't understand your cabd scumread either. How is that different than usual cabd?

pedit: @farside

Bins is part of the fluffy account.
I find bins to be wishy washy scum. How is that not clear.
Is Medea a town read or something? You think posting about what to do and not do in the game should be town when you do nothing else?

I'm calling it crap because you accuse us of not responding to the questions asked when neither of us had posted since the questions where asked.

Who the fuck are you kidding? PN asked you in 448 why you don't want to lynch Wisdom when he's annoying, and TierShift makes a post directly after that in 449, and you defend yourself by saying "neither of us had posted since the questions were asked"? Do you think we are blind??

For those of you at home, this is the post progression:

^why not?

This is a game with a fuckton of hydra, so we all need to be considerate of our postcounts. Please please please try to keep them under control, if someone's posting gets over the top out of control they need to be purged

Notscience:

1) Good luck getting us lynched because I'm sure as fuck not going to artificially deflate my post when it's fun to post and I'm in the greatest hydra on both side of the Mississippi.

2) If you're serious about changing the spam meta, the important things to cut down on are more objective than postcount. I've never understood why it is difficult to scroll past a string of 5 posts of someone having fun. In my opinion, it's the protracted arguments where people say the same thing over and over again instead of looking and comprehending another player's argument that provide damage to game state and the way you change that is by playing with extra care and consideration, not by threatening to policy lynch people who don't play the way you want them to.

-Grandpa Oil

Cabd's playing well if scum.
I would rather talk to penguin though because penguin!!!

No offense Cabd

Unfortunately that's not as viable

Spoiler: IRL Shit, people who don't care can skip

She had a knee blowout tonight and is sort of in incredible amounts of pain, so posting will be limited and likely venty; direct questions can be relayed through me if need be. If she's feeling better she'll hop back in but no major promises.

Tell her I hope she feels better!

Also, I'm treating you like a live snake until further notice, Cabd.

what do you think?

Tier responded to something else

obvious

and the post was 3 minutes later.
Seriously you are trying too hard here.

[Idiocy]

No seriously I want to know. Are you going to tell me Kuro that you were never posting a response to something and had to go?
Or never seen someone post something and left without fucking answering questions asked 3 fucking minutes prior to a post that was in regards to something entirely different?

[Idiocy]

So what is your point?

your the one saying my point is wrong and I'm saying your stretching it to be more then it is.

I find that to be in line with how Cabd usually is (at least as of late), yes.

That's nice.

[Idiocy]

No seriously I want to know. Are you going to tell me Kuro that you were never posting a response to something and had to go?
Or never seen someone post something and left without fucking answering questions asked 3 fucking minutes prior to a post that was in regards to something entirely different?

Oh, so now it is my fault that Tier had to go and didn't see the post right in front of his, but somehow earlier you said my point was crap because "neither of us had posted since the questions were asked"?

Fine...

How do you explain this post then?

VOTE: kuroko

I feel this is the right place to vote rn

Funny you are still arguing this like its a big deal but didn't awnser my question.

Agree with Muki, im still conflicted about Fluff, so i can see why idiocy reached that stance, I don't think anything Medea's done this game mean anything, since apparently the thing i thought that was town was supposed to be null.

I think I always expect more from cabd, hence why I said I'm bias.

[Idiocy]

Are you better at reading notscience or Bins? Can you flesh out your Fluff Central read? I need to have a talk with pieguy with regard to that slot too later. Specifically, what are your feelings of Bins posts?

Bins for me.

[Idiocy]

Also funny moment when I was reading I just post in the pt my read to tier and I put leaning town to scum read on fluffy within 10 pages.
Tier laughed at me.
I just said his first few post was something I read there that rang well and then it started reading more and more scummy.
I didn't care for bins response towards OT, it reads like he's scared to say the wrong thing and I see no reason for town to be scared.

[Idiocy]

I purposely ignored your question because it's pointless busiwork. Everything was clearly explained in the post you called "crap" which I have proven not to be. Do you want to rescind that accusation?

It's not, it's a Point that your call out about "not responding to a question" is crap for a reason, so no I'm not rescinding to something that you still act like is some big fucking to do when I already explained the scum read I have.

[Idiocy]

To the player in the peanut galleria,
This was the post I was referring to in my funny story post

wanna know a secret tho?

notty thinks you're town. i actually don't know if that's a secret because i haven't been reading his posts.

oh god I've made to many posts NOTTY IS GOING TO POLICY LYNCH ME.

pedit - actually don't kill me but none of your posts have really pinged me. Though, yes, I do have doubts. Paranoia, actually. Who am I taking to? I'm pretty paranoid of Nacho. Usually there's one player in a game that I have really, really unnerving paranoia about. In this playerlist it was going to be either mastin/ceph, wisdom, or Nacho.

[Idiocy]

Also you may not like it but I did respond to your questions, I just did it in 2 different post because I get distracted.

[Idiocy]

I thought I replied to those in 452
But the posts you brought are the ones I like, the posts made before those are the ones I dislike.

Don't mind scum kuro there.
I'm getting the impression he's not reading everything and just trying to make things scummy that are not.

[Idiocy]

Well it was a fact that you were "not responding to a question", so I don't know why you're getting so defensive when you could've just said "Oh, I didn't see the question. Sorry!" and leave it like that. The fact that you're pushing back and attempting to paint me as suspicious reads scum-motivated.

I'm not getting defensive at all.
I'm calling your point against us crap

[Idiocy]

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[Idiocy]

Bins is part of the fluffy account.
I find bins to be wishy washy scum. How is that not clear.

The fact that the exact opposite is true is sort of blah to me.

I mean, I thought you would know that...

Really?
So a lot of null reads should be considered not wishy washy?

I'm going to TL'DR
The kuro bs here.
Kuro accused hydra of dodging a question.
I showed the post was 3 minutes from when the question was asked and kuro still thinks he has a valid point all while ignoring that I made points on why I'm scum reading him and he side stepped a question I asked him, calling it busy work rather then realizing his point about dodging a question was crap.

[Idiocy]

Yes I totally had this imaginary fucking conversation.

No seriously I want to know. Are you going to tell me Kuro that you were never posting a response to something and had to go?
Or never seen someone post something and left without fucking answering questions asked 3 fucking minutes prior to a post that was in regards to something entirely different?

No seriously I want to know. Are you going to tell me Kuro that you were never posting a response to something and had to go?
Or never seen someone post something and left without fucking answering questions asked 3 fucking minutes prior to a post that was in regards to something entirely different?

Oh, so now it is my fault that Tier had to go and didn't see the post right in front of his, but somehow earlier you said my point was crap because "neither of us had posted since the questions were asked"?

Fine...

How do you explain this post then?

VOTE: kuroko

I feel this is the right place to vote rn

Funny you are still arguing this like its a big deal but didn't awnser my question.

Agree with Muki, im still conflicted about Fluff, so i can see why idiocy reached that stance, I don't think anything Medea's done this game mean anything, since apparently the thing i thought that was town was supposed to be null.

I think I always expect more from cabd, hence why I said I'm bias.

I purposely ignored your question because it's pointless busiwork. Everything was clearly explained in the post you called "crap" which I have proven not to be. Do you want to rescind that accusation?

[Idiocy]

Speaking of your pushes, where have they been? Surely you have caught up already. After I've knocked you out of control in the game, your scumface has nowhere to hide and is ripe for the noose. As town you would already have obtained a couple of townreads on people, and scumread at least one person, while pushing or defending them as the situation calls. Right now, you're voting someone you aren't even scumreading. This is not even town behavior, not even for your standards.

Fucking this.

Echo has a tendency to get caught up in himself and attempt to respond to/discredit every single thing posted against him, but the crux of what he's saying is solid, and put bluntly, I have no idea how anyone can read Wisdom's posts and not come to the same conclusion because it's fucking obvious if you so much as look at it.

I don't think his pushes on Idiocy or AJ hold as much water; the arguments there seem entirely semantic from both sides of the argument. I can follow what both sides are saying, but think a lot of it is just them misinterpreting each other's posts and talking past each other.

I'm attempting to respond to a lot of shit, it might take me a while to get to some stuff.

Hi pie.
I read one of your post as a bit of double talk, do you want the quote?

[Idiocy]

Is that the only reason you're scumreading me?

Echo.

No

[Idiocy]

I get to a full reason why when I get home.

Can you expand on why wisdom reads scum, other then meta?

[Idiocy]

Funny you are still arguing this like its a big deal but didn't awnser my question.

I think stuff like this is a particularly annoying (and hazardous when he's wrong) element of Echo's play style. I don't agree with his scum read on you nor do I agree with the way he went about it, but I'm willing to talk if you want to ask me anything.

Okay, but my brain is a little checked out so if I sound rambling you know why.

Can you tell me a bit more about Echo's play style as scum vs town?
Is he usually making a big deal about nothing typically or tend to push weak points?

[Idiocy]

Just an FYI this was the post that was driving me nuts when I read it the first time:

vote: Fluff Central

I don't like the attempt at discrediting town reads on Kamikagami because he outed role information in his previous scum game, for a few reasons. The only reason he even played that way as scum was because he decided to go balls out yolo and do something insane just for the sake of doing something insane. Kamikagami's is also fundamentally different from his play in that game in that her information serves to clear people whereas his didn't, which is more likely to come from town than scum as scum usually don't go searching for ways people can potentially be cleared. I don't believe he'd think what Kamikagami did was the same thing he did in that game, and I don't believe he'd Kamikagami, or anyone else for that matter, would do the same thing he did in that game in any other game.

I don't like him spec'ing a lyncher in the game when this is a upick and upicks are plain town vs. scum almost 100% of the time.

I haven't minded Tammy or PN's posts so far.

Maybe it is the way it's formatted, maybe it's my crazy brain being detached when I start to read things, but how hard you attacked Fluff for that reason just seemed a bit over the top.
What is your read on the spot currently?

There's a reason why it's spoilered. I don't like people reading my private messages.

Also why is Echo think a spoiled message shouldn't be read, or why scum would bother asking him about it?
Those things read as very much being knit picky about pretty weak stuff.

[Idiocy]

Also, there's currently a hood with all members of a certain symbol.

The hood does not tell us who is in it, only warns of potential eavesdroppers.

The reason I am bringing this forwardi s I remember cabd saying that scum could have superjuiced roles depending on our symbols, and this very much feels like a way for scum to find out said symbols, and I'm not sure the best way to approach this.

Something to note: It opened sometime during the day. It wasn't open in pregame and didn't open automatically on gamestart.

We had something occur after the gamestart too. I wasn't sure if it was just the mysterious thing that will be revealed later or if it was someone that did it.

[Idiocy]

I'm going to do something a little different here.

vote: Medea

[Idiocy]

actually that is stupid right now.

vote: Muki

[Idiocy]

kuroko - scum
Muki - scum
Fluffy - scum lean
Medea - scum lean

I have town reads too for those that care.

So basically, you think 3 scum are bandwagoning Wisdom on day 1?

This reaction is bad and dumb.
Focus on one comment and not everything said to try to make it like don't listen to this player and there reads.

I'm thinking AJ is town. I'm a bit hesitant to say that fully because I have misread him in the past.

townreading scum

what?

Hello Ms Fox. Pie and I have reached a consensus that Wisdom is scum. Usually, we're right.

Can you explain, Pie, why?

[Idiocy]

Except Muki's justification fell flat when called out on it, yet he kept the vote there.

I'm assuming this is referring to 638? I'm looking through it again and even if Muki had cause to question the scum read on Wisdom as a result of that (which I don't think he did), I don't think this would be remotely a big deal.

It's as likely he just hasn't seen any strong reason to vote anyone else yet, so he hasn't bothered. Do you disagree?

I do.
He's clearly reading the thread if you saw his response to me.

Sorry this is under the hydra

[Idiocy]

Can someone who talks to much please stop posting so much in this game.

Fuck.

I'm in catch up and I swear if I'll I'm going to see is Kuro defending Muki in order to push a case on wisdom, I'm going to bypass those post completely.
And no muki's point against Wisdom was fucking shit. Just because wisdom didn't give an indepth read is no reason to vote or scum read him.

VOTE: Kuroko

this wking is ridiculous

Why is he WKing rather than defending a buddy?

It feels too silly to defend a buddy so badly like that

This is just dumb too

Wis, why did you share your townread of tammy?

Why did you ask this question and why were you just interested in the town read of me? He gave more than one towered:

caught up, though I skimmed most parts.

Tammy and Luna are town. Nacho is probably town. So is ns most likely.

VOTE: kuroko

btw Echo Echo asked me to hydra as well, but I refused. I'm pretty sure I know who he is, too.

That was Tier, all he said to me is he can't read you at all and felt your post was null.

I would like to know who Kuroko thinks is scum other than Wisdom, because this is getting like a broken record.

AJ and Idiocy are my other scumreads.

Echo.

Bite me.

Klingon, I'll make this nice and easy on you. Vote kuroko. I'll tell you if anything changes.

You know what? I do think there's Scum between them and Tammy.

VOTE: Kuroko Network





Ika, tell me about Brantz being Scum.

Why?

muffin I hate you with a thousand suns glaring.

Stopped on page 53

sigh

[Idiocy]

Have read 43-53, and very very briefly skimmed from 20-43, is there anything in 20-43 I should specifically go back and read thoroughly?

Every time I see a Zelink wall it makes me very apathetic. The fact that he obviously doesn't have to be doing it makes it worse, but I am intrigued by 1257.

@ika:Whats up?

Have to go to class now, but will be back with more afterward. If people have things they want me to address/ questions for me that I have missed/now please direct me to them.

Who are you scum reading?

I feel the way wall does about zelink but in a different perspective that it just makes it easy to keep doing catch up post as scum then interacting.

My personal problem isn't understanding your read; it's that your read seems incredibly shallow. Where specifically do you think that Bins ha been too wishy washy to be town? What do you think of notscience's posts

I responded to those questions here and here

work calls need to go, stopped at page 55

[Idiocy]

hi again from idiocy

Prohawk why are you following luna's vote who are you scum reading currently?

I'm leaning scum with klingoncelt. I don't recall him being this useless as town.

I guess I haven't posted a complete read list

Town | Tammy OT PN Luna
Townish | Klingoncelt Ika AJ Kami
Ishish | Aneninen Lynxslot Idiocy Brantz Medea Fluff Wisdom Konowa
Scummish | Kuroko Zelink Muki Prohawk

Why is kling, lynx, konowa and brants in the townish pile at all?

@kamithis posthey I'm posting more then tier, give me a break I signed up for too many games

Muki is a horrible vote.

Why?
Like the dude has done shit all and voted for weak ass reasons.

99% sure that muki is not a newb based on the requirements for the game alone

[quote="mod']Player Requirements
- Two non-newbie on-site games. If you have comparable offsite experience, PM me to discuss waiving this requirement.
- WOTO, WOTC and WOTM are in effect.
- Hydrae are welcome.[/quote]
Alt more then likely, also july of 2014, yet he has to have something there.

not that sure if I said it but I'm pretty darn certain wof is town this game.

wow anem is as useless as a turd in a sink

I thought you were a scumfuck. Then your last couple posts made me reISO you and realize I was quite wrong.

no, just no.

brantz on how not to really take a stand at all
Yeah brantz knows better then this crap.

vote: Brantz

No this is not town brantz, jeez people I hydra with the dude he has better thoughts then that.

@Oil: Instead of quoting I will just number my responses. This game has enough quote walls.

1. I think it is certainly possible that it is scum vs scum. The thing that strikes me most toward it feeling forced is that neither ones argument changes at all through the discourse. They change the language a little bit, but it is Kuroko saying the same thing over and over, and Wisdom responding with the same thing over and over. If there was town there I would expect one of them to try and bridge the gap some how. Instead it just looks contrived.

2. About WoF: Yes I realize Mastin is WoF. I don't feel like her posting recently is fake, and in my limited experience with her it seems like her town explosion, but I left the previous stuff about WoF in my post because I thought the AtE was still worth noting (even though I botched my post tags). Mastin's recent posting has me feeling that they are town though, hence my statements about her later on.

3. I can go find specifics if you want, but I explained what I meant by your posts being strong in the next sentence. Mostly you are open, and engaged, and the tone and content of your posts feels like you are trying to sort people.

4. Did Kuroko start the Wisdom wagon? I missed that if so, I feel much better about the jump back onto the wagon then. Reading it at the time it just looked like an unexplained easy vote hop because others were doing it. Hence my follow up questions.

5. That is completely fair, but until you just said that no reason had been given for my wagon at all. A few people had talked about my lurking, so I made a conjecture.

6. I do find Kuroko scummier of the two. If I were to vote right now it would be on them. I want to sort some of the people I don't have sorted before I vote.

Okay not I'm pissed in the farside is going to get on your ass pissed sort of way.
Do you remember when I called Reck scum when we hydra and how he attacked me was what I had seen of him as scum and you ignored me about it and I was right about him being scum.
Yeah well the pie hydra kept fucking bringing the same fucking point over and over again so how is wisdom supposed to respond but saying the same thing back?
Yes kuroko started the argument because wisdom voted him.
Kuroko just read as emotional so how was any of that scummy when you talk the to the other hydra?
That and your only scum read is on the two players fighting and calling them scum together.


hi bacde!

So you guys are cool with his posts being long as shit, and completely irrelevant to the game at hand?

No

Oil Tycoons,

In all honesty, I'm probably not going to be in the game much longer (if I'm not lynched in the near future, I will probably just replace out). So I'm just going to throw some things out there and you can choose to think about them or not.

Do you think bad guys are likely to bus in this game or try to protect (or at least avoid helping the lynch of) their buddies?

Assuming day talk (I think Medea or someone mentioned fferyllt games have day talk by default? I don't know, I'm just trying to fake a town slip here), do you think it's likely any less experienced bad guys are getting coached pretty hard? Like, say, if a wagon were to develop on less experienced bad guys, do you think their partners would be helping them out a lot with regards to how to dig their way out of it?

Do you have a bad guy read among any of the hydras in this game? Do you think there are any bad guys in that completely random list of players I generated yesterday?

What do you think of the rise and fall of different wagons so far? Do you think there's much that could be learned from any of them? Do you think, for example, there were any bad guys among those supporting the Brantz wagon? Are you keeping track of who's on and off each wagon?

These are the sorts of questions I would be thinking about if I cared enough to catch up on this game.

I never experience anything like that before.
Teach me.

[Idiocy]

I'm at like 1/3rd of this game

If it were a post restriction, he'd just spoiler a bunch of quote walls and otherwise post normally.

It would also be among the most useless and obnoxious post restrictions ever devised.

I've actually once had this PR

My scumreads are {Wisdom, Aj the Epic, Idiocy}


Vote with Kuroko 2016.



Lynch Wisdom for a better tomorrow! (No, seriously, he's scum.)

I don't get your scumread of us other than 'we didn't answer questions directed at us. Can you elaborate why you felt we were scum at that point?

[Idiocy]

Are you pie?

[Idiocy]

No, I'm echo. Pie is townreading you though.

PIE when you get in here I want a full explanation of your read on me from where you started scumreading us and why and where that stopped and where it went to town

caught up until page 50 doing rest later

[Idiocy]

okay then I'd like pie's explanation for the townread

[Idiocy]

Can someone give me a tldr of the prohawk wagon? It looks like shit to me.

Piss, this is farside and me (Tier)

[Idiocy]

Not doing anything and ignoring everything in order to slither in here and plop a vote on someone who has a post restriction he doesn't like in lieu of doing absolutely anything is another.

seems like that to me

you're scumreading him for not doing anything (lack of effort)

Why is everybody being so goddamn obtuse about this? Let's break this down.

Not doing anything

Yes, Wisdom. Lack of effort applies here.

and ignoring everything

Can be construed as lack of effort, but pings Tammy (and also coincidentally, me) that ignoring some 60 aught pages of conversations is not something Prohawk would normally do.

to slither in here and plop a vote on someone who has a post restriction

Oho. OHO. OHOHOHOHO! This is the crux of the Prohawk-scum argument, IMO. Here we have Prohawk (who has famously done nothing up to this point) drop in, plop a vote on a guy for no better reason than a post restriction, bitch about the fluff, then vanish again until wagon'd. Prohawk-town, apathetic to the point he plops a meaningless policy vote on Day 1? No, nonononono. YOU GAVE UP WHEN YOU READ YOUR ROLE PM, DIDN'T YA HAWKIE

Do you actually agree with the argument or are you just clarifying tammy's views?

Whatever you say doesn't change that the argument is shit. Slapping a vote on someone faking a PR isn't scummy, that's ridiculous. The part about where he didn't comment on 50 pages is reasonable, but not great. I expect to find scum on the hawk wagon because it's a really easy argument to sheep and when I look at the composition it's probably aj the epic. I'm townreading the rest of the wagon excrpt for wof who far is heavily townreading.

I don't understand at all how you can find this a compelling argument.

Btw, farside is out for a week.

[Idiocy]

Hawk I see your ISO is full of shit and self-awareness and self-meta.

Can you please do something about it or talk to me about it tyvm

[Idiocy]

WISDOM you came off as townish around page 70-85 and I won't be able to play until deadline so you have my vote.

Brantz is a sorry excuse for a wagon because
1. He's easy to catch via interactions
2. He will obvtown if town later
3. His assessment of the kuroko-wisdom argument in 1676 sounds town to me

NOT going for that. I'd rather lynch a claimed lynchproof, I guess, or whatever vedith claimed.

All of the current wagons are shit tbh and wisdom I believe in you to make a new meaningful one. I think klingon is a good one as his content DOES look like just being there and not trying to evaluate the game and slapping votes on the big wagons.

VOTE: klingon

[Idiocy]

Klingon's ISO is full of non-committal arbitrary scumreads such as this one:

Spoiler:

Klingon, I'll make this nice and easy on you. Vote kuroko. I'll tell you if anything changes.

You know what? I do think there's Scum between them and Tammy.

VOTE: Kuroko Network





Ika, tell me about Brantz being Scum.

hawk, what is your read on Wisdom and do you make anything of Nacho's reasoning for scum reading him?

Klingon, no response to this?

You know what? I do think there's Scum between them and Tammy.

VOTE: Kuroko Network

What is the reasoning behind this (as in why are me/Tammy linked)? I'm not sure why you'd claim there's scum specifically between us two.

Sorry for not answering.

The ridiculous level of noise in the game has much to do with it.

I could see TvT arguing if it didn't go into so many pages of so many useless words.

So maybe it's an attention ho fight. The schematics are right for that, but the wording isn't.

So it must be TvS.

Tammy looks to be her normal lemony self, as opposed to desperately flailing lemony, so she must be the Town side of the discussion.

Leaves you on the other end.

What's the basis for the thought that a TvT can't be protracted and silly?

An enthusiastic TvT usually runs out of steam before long. A slow-burning TvT lasts longer, but there are fewer posts overall. This feud made my brain bleed.

And there was nothing silly about it. I'm entertained by silly. I was tormented by this fight.

The notion that because the fight is long and useless, it must be TvS. Not only is that ridiculous, but what's more important is that someone with the experience of klingon KNOWS stuff like this. He HAS to have seen a long useless TvT fight before. This scumread is extremely easy as it's based on some kind of 'theory' instead of showing how he really feels about certain players. Just applying (flawed) theories reads like scum to me. Other than that, there is a constant lack of doing anything and sheeping of the large wagons, as seen below.

Hai, Pisskop! Hai, Vedith!

If someone doesn't sheep Ika I think his head will explode. Damn, he be ragin'.

VOTE: Brantz

Let's go klingon wagon. GO GO GO

[Idiocy]

why pn wis?

[Idiocy]

because it was the way i felt

[Idiocy]

about the argument, I mean

[Idiocy]

I don't get the NK.

Has anyone at all reached out to brantz in the neighbourhood thing?

[Idiocy]

Looking back, the one person who was really pushing for people to say things in the hood was ika, and brantz was the one responding. I don't really know why scum-ika would push for the activity, but the main part of the limited day 1 chatter was a back and forth between those two.

Which is rather strange because given that post I mentioned, ika was in brantz's scumreads and then he swapped to null soonafter, which is really strange considering the way it would be approached if ika was town.

okay I'm going to check up on this because I know ffery likes to put roles in her setup that have knowledge of some kind. For instance, I think it's pretty likely that scum knew there was a traitor. Maybe brantz even knew one of his teammates...

[Idiocy]

ika was still on the brantz wagon tho?

[Idiocy]

Fake guilties are lame nachosyr
If it did actually draw out a cop claim I'm calling you scum for it but gotta read better I guess.

The argument for wisdomscum is pretty much awful as scumhim would NEVER try to justify not being on a scumlynch afterwards without being prompted to do so. He would never try to justify himself anyway as either alignment, it's obvious that he thinks there's scum on the wagon cos scum had no idea bout the traitor and I'm kinda waiting for cabd's modmeta to either confirm or deny that theory.

[Idiocy]

That was definitely baiting

Who faked the guilty and why?

[Idiocy]

Hey this is farside I was away for a bit do to RL issues so I had tier take over there. I was doing some catch up and I had a few questions.

Pisskop: Why did you think the brantz wagon was gross?
Wisdom: Why did you ignore the meta I brought up about Brantz in which the wagon started? Why did you not support a kling wagon when Tier brought it up?
Oil: If you feel the need to troll because you think you are funny please leave me out of the equation. I have no humor for any of it currently.

[Idiocy]

I'm just going to see how much in notes I can make in here.

I think Medea has done next to nothing this game. I expect better from the hydra to be honest.
I have been bother by wisdom's vote hoping but then stops suddenly and then kling calls him out then just sits there.
She is way better then that.

All of the current wagons are shit tbh and wisdom I believe in you to make a new meaningful one. I think klingon is a good one as his content DOES look like just being there and not trying to evaluate the game and slapping votes on the big wagons.

VOTE: klingon[/]

Okay, that's a load of wank.

Wisdom

is the one throwing votes around like confetti. Using your "logic," you cannot vote for me until you get Wisdom lynched.

I voted for Kuroko Network, then switched to Brantz. Look where my vote is on Brantz. Was it a big wagon when I voted?

Using your "logic," you cannot vote for me until you get Wisdom lynched.

As for not trying to evaluate the game, your perceptions are WAY the fuck out of adjustment.

Tell me how you are evaluating the game kling.

Klingonette doesn't look scummy. Or at least, her scumplay I saw was entirely different.

I really don't want to be the fusestopper of this game, but after ISOing Brantz I can't see the reason of that wagon.

Pisskop is very quiet, very quiet... as town he's usually much more talkative.

I'd really like to see your opinions about him

, I mean, all of you. I have a damn good reason for this; we were misreading each other quite a couple of times and we really don't need an unnecessarry Pisskop-Aneninen war.

As for Prohawk, nothing has changed.

I don't like Vedith's latests, especially the jump on the Brantz-wagon. By the way, where did the Vedith-wagon go and why?

UNVOTE:
for now, because that vote seems to be pointless.

Who else are you scum reading and why?

or get pressured

I have no energy for that. Just do something so I can see if you are town or scum.

@Zelink: I mean I am hardly the only person not updating the threads with their changing reads real time, but why are you blatantly ignoring the fact that I admitted my read was changing based on new information about the Wisdom/Kuroko argument. Wisdom was fairly obviously the lesser of the two scum reads (at least to me it was, but you didn't seem to think I was really clear on anything so maybe not as clear as I thought). While discussing my reads you completely ignore my Grandpa Oil read, which I think we can agree was not "wishy-washy" at all, and only talk about my Luna and Tammy reads. My read on Wall of Fire obviously evolved over time (from nullish with mild scum points to town based on changing game information). I'm not completely sure your stance on me is completely organic either, but you seem to have convinced everyone else (yes I realize we are like a day and a half from deadline, and I probably can't not be lynched at this point, but I still have to try.)

@Oil: I'm not giving Ika a pass on his lurking. I interacted with him in the neighborhood he mentioned in2238 about it since it was hard to get him to say anything here. He is in my scum reads based on the interaction we had about it. He was neutral before based on his initial response to that question acknowledging that he was playing to his scum meta. But the fact that he continues to say how unmotivated he is to try (both in thread and in our interaction) it has gotten too thin.

@Pro:
Town:Tammy, Oil Tycoons, Wall of Fire, Luna Fox, Kamigami
Town lean: Bacde, Zelink, AJ the Epic, Idiocy
Neutral: Fluff Central, Medea the Alien, Wisdom, Prohawk, Perpetual Nonsense, pisskop
Scum Lean: Kuroko Network, Klingoncelt, Aneninen
Scummy: Vedith, Ika Zaru

@ika: I mean mala isn't really in the game yet is she (has she even posted)? If you are going to tell me you can just switch off your scum meta its time to nut up or shut up.

As for my claim:

I am the Tower Reversed, Town JoaT. I have 4 1-shot abilities: Roleblock, Doctor, Tracker, Jailkeeper. My role also says that other players abilities may change what I do during the game.

VOTE: ika zaru

Just keeping this as a future reference.

Also I'm town reading ika. not for brantz because I think I can read scum ika.

VOTE: Aneninen

@Zelink: My Aneninen read. He has sat on the fence a lot, and despite noting that people ask him about his reads he never expands on them at all. There is also a weird soft push on Grandpa Oil in 1609 that as soon as Oil responds he completely backs off of in 1615. He has avoided saying anything that isn't a generality.

Klingon: Most of what she has done is complain about the noise/fluff in the game, and has used it as an excuse not to really get involved in anything that is going on. On top of that she has basically posted zero content at all, and constantly comments on things that are irrelevant to the game (increasing the noise she is complaining about). Also her hop onto my wagon was horrible (but I am a bit biased about this one)

Kuroko: I still feel like the argument between Kuroko and Wisdom is very strange. I still can't put my finger on exactly why, but if Kuroko's scum read of Wisdom actually is just a glorified OMGUS (which unless I missed it I didn't see Kuroko refute) it still pings me very hard.

bacde: Why did you vote anem?

The Tower is the worst Card of all. Reversed it is weaker, but still bad.

VOTE: Brantz

Why did you unvote in the first place?

pretty sure anem is town based on the claim there.

stopping on page 117 for now.

vote: Kling

[Idiocy]

prod received.
Should have time this morning to read some of what I missed

[Idiocy]

All I read was this page so far and I am way behind.
Anyone want to tell me about why players are voting for wisdom, AJ or us?

[Idiocy]

okay so in my catch up luna put together wisdom as scum for defending Brantz.

Like it's not like Brantz was a mafia traitor that was a counter wagon to team-scum (Brantz's vote on Anen practically confirms him as town), Brantz was a "town" wagon that was counter to a real town wagon. This means that scum are going to be on both wagons, so focusing on one over the other is stupid.

This point is valid too.

Wisdom: Why did you believe OT's claim on us?

Why the f is everyone ignoring Uncle Typhoon's guilty?

Why did you believe the claim? if you did believe it why no vote?

UNVOTE: Wisdom
VOTE: Idiocy

You on this vote Wisdom? Huh? Huh?

Pedit - Yeah, you're on it.

You need to explain why you agree with OT.

brantz is a good guy man. let's vote vedith

Why is brantz scum?

I don't really wanna vote BRantz. Do we have time for anything else?

The difference is that Brantz is scum, and Anen is the scum generated counterwagon to it.

Nope, he's still town

You literally never mentioned the wagon except in:

BRantz (7): Ika Zaru, Kuroko Network, Klingoncelt,

nacho how can you be okay with such a shit wagon?

You read Brantz as town and now you're trying to use wagon composition to justify yourself not lynching him.
VOTE: Wisdom

Well that's flimsy.

Why is it flimsy?

i'll tell you. she posted that we should lynch brantz because tower is the worst tarot card. And when she was told that flavor is not alignment indicative as confirmed by the mod, she just shrugged it off.

This^^^^^^^

because one game can't be used as a meta

i did support a klingon wagon before tier brought it up, nobody followed

It bothers me that you were town reading the spot but I fully endorse a kling wagon. She is just sitting in the background making noise without scum hunting.

I think we got lucky with brantz flipping scum

Idiocy, i voted aneninem because i think he has a good chance of being scum

What are your reads currently? Why is Anen still a scum read of yours?

Idiocy's initial approach to us was to call us scum because we said we were going to post a lot and I said in a scumgame once that I thought posting a lot was harmful. I still don't understand the point to this push and I still don't like it. The rest of the ISO is a void for me; I find farside usually has pretty well-defined pushes on people and is more proactive in pushing shit out as town where here it doesn't really feel like she's doing anything. I was OK with the Brantz push but I haven't really been satisfied with the other posts made.

This is why I want to vote Idiocy.
It's also Muffin endorsed!

I agree on basically all those points about the Idiocy hydra. I actually had a mild bad guy read on them up until the point they started pushing BRantz. I've been skimming a lot of their posts, though. I also think the BRantz thing is about the only thing I've seen from them that made me feel town.

So was medea.
Do you have a bug up your butt about the hydra for some reason OT?

I have no clue why AJ is voting Ika.

No, that reasoning is fine, but it's an assumption to think that makes him town. Remember that really great reason I had to town read scum in smite? I feel like that reasoning to town read vedith is along similar lines. His play at the end of day was concerning.

Why was his end of day play concerning?

I think that him giving Wisdom shit is hilarious and would rather not lynch him as a result.

It just didn't feel right. I'm not really interested in lynching him today anyway. I do want my concern out there before I forget it though.

I think Klingon, pisskop or aj would be much better targets for today anyway. I see your point about idiocy and I'm mulling that over but feeling really lazy right now and don't want to go back and read anything right now. That and I don't have much time right now, so I'm putting it off.

I agree about kling and piss. I liked AJ day 1 but his day 2 is pretty weak right now.

Ok. I like OT's aggressive townread on Tammy, and I will accept OT's Tammy townread for now.

Scum team then obliges and tries to save him with a flash wagon.

Unfortunately I don't really buy into that theory. You think the Anen wagon pioneers look bad?

I don't buy into that theory either. I don't think scum knew that Brantz was a traitor.

Rather, I think the reverse is true, where Brantz knew who the scum team were, but scum team had no idea who Brantz was. Hence, I think we should be using the reads list brantz gave out to guide our lynch, rather than looking at wagon compositions from yesterday.

Ika Zaru, Medea, Klingon, Pisskop, Zelink, Idiocy, Konowa, AJ, ProHawk, Muki, Anein is loosely where I'm looking at for lynch today. I'm reading ns's outing the neighborhood early as town-ish, and I think this is Gaiden's town game.

I'm kinda leaning away from Ika lynch, based on their claim, but it's technically a null claim, so still thinking over it.

okay I think wisdom is town after I got so far. Wasn't a fan of his push against brantz but I feel better about most of what he has said this game day.

The wash, rinse and repeat of kuro is really annoying. Find something new or move on.
Same with OT.

I can't remember a single thing Kling has posted

ISO me.

I'm here, I'm reading, I'm figuring things out.

Where?

Reference for farside:

Not sure who I want to move it to :/

I'm not sure about Brantz. He called me town. I'm a sucker for people who call me town :p

I kinda wouldn't mind lynching klingon though.

lets do that

VOTE: klingon

- no votes for klingon, not even from tammy -

- 2 votes happen on PN instead, so I join that wagon -

- Then Tier votes Klingon, late to the party -

Oh, so this is some sort of anti-popularity contest?

Kling's in the game, so let's auto-lynch her?

That's

very

unsportsmanlike conduct. It's happened enough that I may need to bring it to the attention of the list mod.

In the meantime:

VOTE: Wisdom

That was not the point at all.
Thanks for misrepresenting and OMGUS on top of it.

Tell me how you are evaluating the game kling.

I'm doing a fair job of it.

At present I'm working my way through the posts, seeing much.

I know 3 people got their elements changed.

It probably relates to Luna's potential accuracy.

Not sure, but I think when players change to a certain element they're put in a neighborhood. Is it the same one FluffCentral spoke of, or a different one? I dunno.

What I do need to know - what all of us need to know - is which of us is which element.

Slow claps.
yawns
That is evaluating roles, not players.
Fun.

I don't understand Klingon's post, but the vote is correct.

In a nutshell Scum Wisdom is trying to get a clique vote on the low-hanging fruit (me.)


By the way -

Idiocy and AJ the Epic are also Scum.

I want you guys to act on this if I get killed tonight. I usually don't last long in games.

In far too many games someone will correctly list the Scum team, the player gets killed, and the next day everyone forgets what the dead player said, essentially going full-blown derp and mislynching a Townie.

Idiocy and AJ the Epic are also Scum.

Remember that.

OMGUS , how dare players call me scum when I have done nothing all game. AtE and all that crap.

Well if I get lynched and when we flip town, can people please lynch kling for not presenting a scum read for something other then OMGUS.
That would be awesome.

How do you know this?

P-Edit: About the elements.

It was in my role PM.

And?
You know what the elements are about exactly and how it effects players who have that element?

Anyone who played the first tarot cards know whether kling has a point with the elements are where she is trying to out the elements so it helps her?

hyperbolic confidence makes me want to kneejerk lynch you

Find anything convincingly Towny about the 3 of them, mainly Wisdom and Idiocy. Look at Wisdom and Idiocy's interactions.

They might as well be running through the thread waving giant flags.

Links and explain in detail. I dare you.

both lists in no particular order

Acceptable to lynch

Oil Tycoons (?)
klingoncelt
Aneninem
pisskop
Idiocy
Medea the Alien
Ika Zaru
fluff central
Wall of Fire
Wisdom
Aj The Epic
Kuroko Network
Luna Fox
Vedith
Prohawk

Not acceptable to lynch

Bacde
Tammy
Kamigami
Perpetual Nonsense (?)

This should die too.

I'm going to stop reading and catching up to say something important here.

I stated day 1 that we received a PM at the start of day 1 that said we had something new to our role PM. It included Wisdom, I have been curious if this was a game thing, or a role thing. I have been leaning more on role related. Tier doesn't think it was scum, and at the start of day 2 I thought maybe it is. There are some people who tried to push wisdom and now there is this push on us.
I'm still thinking it is a scum role and I could be wrong but if someone is lover this game I want them to come forward and explain themselves.
If no one comes forward that player is more likely scum.

[Idiocy]

Variously, because they don't like him, because he's scummy, and because you're scum.

Aren't you a ball of info.

[Idiocy]

I said in my large post wisdom and I were lovers. Apparently the mod sent a PM that didn't list us as lovers and then sent a fixed role PM.

Also what wisdom said about be treestumped is correct. We are delayed for one game day so we can continue to post about who is scum and then when we flip town players may actually pay attention to what we said instead of ignoring us.

[Idiocy]

Got to say this game has me losing the joy of playing this game.
No one has read our case on kling, there is no case on us and people are voting.
I'm looking into seriously retiring again with the rate of how bad players are being at this game and how little they care.