Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 28, Dimitri Davidoff wrote:Also I'm townreading Greatvalue
For?-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 32, Natural Aristocracy wrote:That entry post and paragraph was far too strong-arming. "Look at me! I'm the guy with everyone's best interests at heart
Closer to my reason for voting him than what GreatValue thought it was. But not the same.
What do you think of his response to me?-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 36, Greatvalue wrote:I've already established myself in an active town role.
Happy with my vote.
People townreading GreatValue: don't read his posts at face value. Read between the lines.
Dimitri Davidoff: welcome to my scumpile. Great Value, meet Dimitri. Dimitri, meet Great Value.
Tags fixed. ~QuilLast edited by Quilford on Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 51, Shiba Tatsuya wrote:It would greatly help your win condition more if you were to be more articulate in explaining your stances and reasoning behind your reads.
This is newbtown.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 59, Dimitri Davidoff wrote:In post 57, You are dead to me wrote:This is newbtown.
Out of all the reasons to townread him you put him as newbtown?
lol
He doesn't look new at all to me.
No, when I first read his posts, I thought he was town if he was a newb. He let slip that he was a newbie later on at which point I read him as town.
And yes, he's a newb. Less than 6 months to a year, I'd say.
Why doesn't he look new to you?-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 65, Shiba Tatsuya wrote:What did I just read!?
This is attention-grabbing, considering that I was about to classify you as a VI myself.
Yeah, confirmed newbie.
For future reference, people who don't articulate their thoughts early game do it for a variety of reasons. Wanting to see the reaction of their target, wanting to see the reaction of other players, to see if others disagree and what it says about them. In my case, it was all of the above. If I ~couldn't~ articulate my thoughts, I'd have said "gut" or something similar rather than play hard to get.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 68, Spider Gwen wrote:Vote Dimitri
Dead boy's a good vote, too. Both are scum. Don't know about Aristocrat. I'll wait for him to insult me a bit before a make up my mind.
I'm going to assume you have a townread on Greatvalue and a null-read on Shiba. Why?-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 79, Quailford LOL wrote:Great Value = town.
Because he dissed the RQS and then gave a paragraph-long explanation for why?-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 81, Quailford LOL wrote:This could be 50% bad town / 50% bad scum... so 100% bad but only 50% scum.
Lol, no. There are bad surface-level reasons to suspect Greatvalue: "stifling conversation" "not answering RQS because he's afraid he'll get caught" "overexplaining himself" etc. I'm not voting him for any of that shit, and I wish people would stop assuming.
There are mid-level reasons to read Greatvalue as town. He has a genuine-sounding tone. He talks like he believes what he's saying. People at this level are assuming I'm using level 1 reasoning to scumread him.
There are high-level reasons why Greatvalue is scummy. No one has touched on this yet. Natural Aristocracy came close but didn't nail them.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 84, Gumby wrote:In post 76, You are dead to me wrote:Gumby can go into the scumpile.
Man, solid reads after one post, this guy must know his shit /s
Sucks getting caught after one post.
Did you read what I wrote about Shiba after the post you quoted?-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 95, Gumby wrote:In post 91, You are dead to me wrote:In post 84, Gumby wrote:In post 76, You are dead to me wrote:Gumby can go into the scumpile.
Man, solid reads after one post, this guy must know his shit /s
Sucks getting caught after one post.
Did you read what I wrote about Shiba after the post you quoted?
I did. I disagree. You may see "someone who has lived here for under a year" as newbie, but I feel that once a player has completed 5 or more games, they are exempt from any benefit of the doubt (read: weak reasons to townread) from being "newbtown". Otherwise you're honestly suggesting that they completed 5 (well probably about 3 town games but ya know) games as newbtown without gaining enough skill to be read as anything beyond newbtown. That is rubbish.
Your strawman of my point is rubbish, sure.
That wasn't my actual point. I don't care about your definition of what a newbie is. Newbies sometimes give off the lost, clueless vibe that betrays that they are town. Shiba gave off that vibe when he accused Greatvalue. Not knowing his experience level, I hesitated to read him as town for it. But whenhe called me out for not articulating my thoughts, I realized that he was indeed a newbie and deduced that his previous behavior was town.
Your beef with isn't based on any of that. You first tell me I'm finding excuses to read Shiba as newbtown. Then you rant about how our definitions of newbie differ. Then you call your strawman rubbish. That's why I'm asking whether you actually read my posts.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 93, Quailford LOL wrote:In post 91, You are dead to me wrote:In post 84, Gumby wrote:In post 76, You are dead to me wrote:Gumby can go into the scumpile.
Man, solid reads after one post, this guy must know his shit /s
Sucks getting caught after one post.
Did you read what I wrote about Shiba after the post you quoted?
Good catch actuallybut he is also dropping town tells.
Is this sarcasm or are you talking about the fact that Gumby didn't read my post? I can't tell.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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For the people who have yet to show up, I assume a typical readslist will look like this:
Greatvalue - He's being "clear with his thoughts," "figuring things out" and explained himself well. Town.
Gumby - He's being aggressive and asking questions. Town.
Spider Gwen - He said what I thought and I agree with his suspicions of Dead to me. Town.
QuailfordLOL - His analysis that Shiba's RQS was bad is accurate. I agree. Town.
Natural Aristocracy - I like some of his posts but some of them look he's buddying. Null.
Shiba - His RQS didn't serve any purpose. Greatvalue made good points. Lean scum.
Dimitri - Bussing you are dead to me. Greatvalue also made a "good point" about buddying. Possible scum.
You are dead to me - She's an ass who isn't explaining any of her points. I hate that vote on my townread Greatvalue. She's also buddying Shiba and called him town too easily. Lynch with fire.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 115, Dimitri Davidoff wrote:In post 111, You are dead to me wrote:QuailfordLOL - His analysis that Shiba's RQS was bad is accurate. I agree. Town.
Do you agree with him about Shiba being scum just because of that bad RQS though?
Because that looked like an awful lot of opportunist screening of bad=scum to me.
Read the heading. It's not my readslist. It is how I expect someone who hasn't checked in yet to read the game. We'll see.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 134, Spider Gwen wrote:That's still not a bad reason for this early in the game.
Actually it is.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 175, Concorde wrote:In post 174, You are dead to me wrote:Your reads are more in line with mine and unlike most other people's. Do you have any thoughts on why that could be?
I don't know exactly why. Yet the agreement I got when I read your posts made me place you as solid town. A few people were wagoned early and now most everyone agreeing with you has received a vote or two.
I think scum tried to wagon you, got called out for it, and are searching for easy pickings.
I also think I know who you are.
What do you think of Greatvalue accusing Dimitri of buddying him? You think they're both on a scumteam? You are also the first person to accuse Greatvalue since RVS. Care to share your reasons?-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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There's something dissonant about your posts. For instance with Shiba, I could tell easily that he was newb-town. With you, on the one hand your case on Dipsy suggests you played mafia for quite a while, and on the other hand, you keep talking about things like trying to move votes off of a wagon that's never going to go to lynch anyways like it actually matters that a couple of people are voting me which suggests not understanding how wagons work and looks like you are trying to kiss up to me.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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I wouldn't really say Natural Aristocracy has been immovable. I get the opposite impression. There's something slimy and smarmy about the way he talks and the language that he uses. This post is particularly bothersome:
In post 191, Natural Aristocracy wrote:Thanks, SpiderGwen. I definitely see what you mean. I was not a huge fan of Dipsy's entrance, myself, as it seemed to sling a bit of mud but not really achieve anything. It felt ephemeral and weightless. I suppose you're more on the money with actual criticism, there.
Do you think Dipsy's off-the-cuff approach and pushing could come from a town slot?
About how long do you want to interact with other players before going with a lynch for the first day?
If you could choose any single wagon to fold into yours on Dipsy, which would you choose and why?
I like that you are pulling this much from the few posts that Dipsy has. I wonder how Dipsy will respond--I was originally curious if your retaliation for him was solely coming from a place of OMGUS frustration and confirmation bias. It seems like you're extrapolating meaningful connections from his posts rather than just conjuring points out of thin air, so that's good.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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I've fallen so far behind due to a lack of a computer. Although I've skimmed on my phone from time to time but no actual in depth reading.
Spider Gwen seemed like a good investment when he was parading his case around but with my fellow sharks so interested in leg-humping, I'm going to have to stay out.
Phantom of the Opera: you are a smooth talker but you don't have the numbers to back that up. You're a great salesman but you have a product, not a business.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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Personally, I think we can learn more about the alignments of players from who they are leg-humping and why than by going over the arguments they've made.
Phantom of the Opera: you described Spider Gwen as a "strong player." Talk about this more. What gave you this impression that he was a strong player over and above anyone else in this game?
To the person who was agreeing with Spider Gwen's cases and pushes and calling them "insightful," "good" and other such compliments, could you explain what exactly about them was good. If you don't off of your own accord, I will find you when I actually read the thread and check who said what.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 487, Concorde wrote:Dead to me, I think this is an oversight. For the most part, I have disagreed with SG's cases. I still think they come from a town place though. She is pushing factually true cases based off her misinterpreting posts, thus leading her to the wrong reads.
I do think Phantom has a business I could see thriving. I just prefer my own business of lynching ST. Do you stand by your conclusions?
Your NA business is glitzy but lacks strong financials or a solid business plan. Do not invest.
Perhaps I was unclear. I don't have a lot of problems with Spider Gwen's cases and I think he may even be able to succeed without an investment. I find his cases fairly average but I distinctly recall people holding them (and Gwen himself) in high regard. It is those people I suspect have something to hide (crippling debts perhaps, or a scum-aligned role PM). I don't think that was you. I'll know who it was once I comb through these tedious balance sheets that people have put up in my absence.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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You are dead to me Goon
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Soothsayer, are you questioning Spider Gwen with (1) no meta assumptions or (2) do you think you have an idea of who the alt is and you think he's competent at the game and so you don't want to give him a free pass?
I don't want to know who you think it is. I just want to know if the answer is (1) or (2). If neither, elaborate a bit. I just want your thought process. I'm not asking you to guess.-
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In post 546, Spider Gwen wrote:@Deadle: Thoughts on possibility of Aristocrat and Dipsy being on the same team?
I haven't noticed anything interesting in their interactions. Point me to the posts I should be looking at and I'll take note as I catch up.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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Reading the first page reminds me of my GreatValue scumread. It doesn't look like he'll ever come back so I'll explain a bit. I wasn't scumreading him for dumb things like "stifling discussion." I was scumreading him for tone.
Look at the following two quotes:
In post 10, Greatvalue wrote:Post edit: wow, you saw right through my façade. How insightful of you.
This is the kind of answer I see scum post a lot more than town. I'm not sure of the exact motivation for it, just that they do. My guess is that by discrediting the attack on them, they hope that the town will take the attacker less seriously.
In post 17, Greatvalue wrote:But thank you for trying to call me out on this. It's a much more productive discussion than what you were originally going for.
This reads as "oh, look at me so not bothered by the scumreads" and also like an unsuccessful attempt to control the interaction. GreatValue tries to frame the conversation as if he's the one in control and calling the shots but in reality he's responding to Shiba's scumread. Scum tend to want to create the illusion they're in charge because feel like they can achieve their goals better. I occasionally see this type of behavior from town but it's more prevalent in scum. It's not spectacular reasoning but it's good reasoning and the best I had on page one so I voted.
Then he responds by omgus'ing me while at the same time pre-emptively suggesting that I'd discredit it as scum which I find a bit lame but not very alignment indicative.
In post 27, Greatvalue wrote:You are dead to me wrote:Why is it horrible?
Because I'm calling out the BS early on, and choosing to put myself out there in doing so.
So if you're scum, that's the perfect opportunity to join the wagon with an easily faked scumread on me for "stifling discussion," when I've been completely upfront about howyes, that was obviously the intent.
And if you're town, you clearly haven't actually thought about it or even considered my points.
Why are you asking me if it's horrible?
When I ask him why my vote is bad, he speculates on my reasons for voting him which are just garbage strawmen. "Stifling discussion" is the stupidest reason to vote anyone ever. I felt like he would have asked me why I'm voting him but he never does even after I specify that I'm not voting him for the reasons he thinks I am. The part where he says I haven't thought about it or considered his points is even worse because he's again trying to draw conclusions without actually asking what my reasoning was.
In post 36, Greatvalue wrote:In post 24, Dimitri Davidoff wrote:In post 13, Shiba Tatsuya wrote:You should suggest better ones then, instead of proceeding to brainless and strictly inferior RVS.
There are no better ways to start the game. Your random questions are brainless and strictly inferior as any RQS and RVS as your questions does nothing to help progress the game.
But how about to garner reaction? Well, that's what the brainless and strictly inferior RVS does too.
By the way, I'm more surprised that you expected nothing but a "RQS is bad" given that's what happens if you decide to RQS in this site.
I wouldn't categorize his questions as random or brainless (a word which you used twice!) at all; RQS has the word random in it, but it only applies to 1, 2, and 4 in the sense that they're questions intended to start discussion.
Did you even read them thoroughly before choosing that stance? In any other scenario they're decent at worst. It just looks like you're trying to buddy up to me with the Shiba criticism, the Yadtm vote, and that townread on me since I've already established myself in an active town role.
VOTE: Dimitri
Serious vote. Take note, Yadtm.
(Also, I'll note how rejecting the RQS post led Dimitri to reveal he's familiar with RQS attempts here anyway. Which isn't too uncommon, but it's pretty funny to me.)
Finally there's the Dimitry vote. It doesn't look like the thought process of a townie actually trying to read people. The whole crap about how he's an established active town role is kind of a stretch and also looks like another subtle way to imply that he's in charge. My guess was that Dimitry was scum with GreatValue and GreatValue is trying to make it look like Dimitry was "buddying" him so when Dimitry flips, people instinctually associate GreatValue with town.
The disappearing act since while not conclusive and may have external explanations obviously isn't sitting well with me.
So, when the entire town starts dancing to his tune and praising his reasoning, my first thought was "what the fuck is wrong with these people?" My feeling now is that a lot of the traditionally "weaker" players were in the game at that time and the stronger ones hadn't posted much.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 555, You are dead to me wrote:Why is your read on me weaker Soothsayer?
Find your focus of "Lets see who's called Gwen a strong player" in Post 485 when coming back the first time as well as your question towards me in Post 486 to be really odd areas to spend time on when returning to the thread, particularly the latter given it ignores a lot of why I actually town read you and tries it suggest it's "theory" based when it occurring in the game makes it the opposite.[/quote]
Fair. It's what I expected you to pick up on if you were town.-
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In post 558, the_soothsayer wrote:In post 555, You are dead to me wrote:Why is your read on me weaker Soothsayer?
Find your focus of "Lets see who's called Gwen a strong player" in Post 485 when coming back the first time as well as your question towards me in Post 486 to be really odd areas to spend time on when returning to the thread, particularly the latter given it ignores a lot of why I actually town read you and tries it suggest it's "theory" based when it occurring in the game makes it the opposite.
Fair. It is what I expected you to pick up on if you were town.-
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In post 189, Natural Aristocracy wrote:I just wish I had the conviction you do, is all. Makes me curious if you're seeing something you haven't shared (you keep alluding to this, I don't think you ever dropped the bomb on it) or if you're just playing it up.
I've explained my read on GreatValue. Your total lack of reaction isn't sitting well with me considering how badly you wanted me to spill the beans.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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In post 189, Natural Aristocracy wrote:I just wish I had the conviction you do,is all. Makes me curious if you're seeing something you haven't shared (you keep alluding to this, I don't think you ever dropped the bomb on it) or if you're just playing it up.
This post is pretty scummy as well. Look at the phrasing and choice of words. "Is all." He's trying to minimize the extent of his suspicion on me to placate me rather than assertively probe me into giving explanations.-
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In post 629, Spider Gwen wrote:@Deadle: You never told me what you thought about the Dipsy/Aristocrat back and forth.
Unfortunately I've been busy/lazy and only caught up to page 9 and the soothsayer's big reads list is going to take a bit of time to digest. I should be done by tomorrow so I'll get to it then.-
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You are dead to me Goon
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