Borderlands Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Suzune]

I am really just not sure with A50. I mean, overall I think his game has been shifty. I think his ideas and theories have been out there. I mean he never fails to have a suggestion regardless of the fact I rarely agree. The thought of another third party makes my skin crawl because it continuously stacks the odds against the town. This I simply cannot understand.

[Suzune]

What is our vote count at?

p-edit, why are you against removing an sk YT?

[Suzune]

Okay, I did not want to do this, but let's do it anyway.

Did anyone else notice that YT seems to go out of his way to discredit the person who is trying to defend themself. I mean it has happened all game. Or is it just me being paranoid.

[Suzune]

I thought you were not going to self vote because it goes against your win condition.

[Suzune]

I swear tomorrow is going to be ugly if this was a bad lynch...

[Suzune]

The real question is where did the last kill go :/

think it was a double kill?

[Suzune]

Secrets behind that capital V in have?

[Suzune]

Two serial killers seems like a lot of third party with that Almost lynch yesterday. However since the town has a lot of vote manipulation roles perhaps it make sense.

[Suzune]

We could use another good lynch. Too early for me to play though. I have work, be back later.

[Suzune]

I'm not worried because I know I am loved. But, it feels like the setup for a lol hammer.

[Suzune]

Honestly, that would be the worst beeboy. I think I would cry.

[Suzune]

I'm not worried because I know I am loved. But, it feels like the setup for a lol hammer.

i thought you're vengeful?

Vengeful assumes I can have any target I want, like in vengeful mafia.
I am just a supersaint. I kill the one who hammers me. If a townie hammers me, then two townies will de.

[Suzune]

So I was making coffee and it occurred to me. What if scum know the loved is gone and are using this ploy to kill the town. What if it does not matter to them if one of them dies?

Sorry the crazy ramblings off a coffee maker.

[Suzune]

Yes. I was informed of it day two when I asked about being loved and what happens as the game ticks down. While I never stop being a supersaint I can lose the loved status. I outted yesterday that it goes away in a lylo situation as it is not allowed to create a stand still.

I was thinking. If there are four scum left and an sk. There would be three townies. This would mean it matters not if one of them does because they would still be in a majoity if the supersaint goes off. This assumes it is not multi all though. We would still be clear though if it was. Just tactically we must be playing right into their hands.

[Suzune]

Why would someone roleblock me

information is power. Perhaps someone felt threatened.

[Suzune]

VOTE: nero

Not vanilla

Huh. Went against what I thought was going to happen.

I want to vote but I will put him at l-1. Shall we hold a little?

[Suzune]

VOTE: Nero

I swear if there is a scum bus driver at the end, I will be disappointed because the idea was out down on day two.

[Suzune]

Self hammering. It's a thing.

it is a thing. But it happens pretty rarely and usually to make a point.

[Suzune]

These are probably not popular opinions but it is at this point that I am going to share them.

The person here to who makes the most sense to me is Pops. I know that sounds crazy but from the wacky claim to the post right now. I get the most townie feeling from him. I think this is very against what everyone else seems to think, but something about the way he is viewing the game rings true to how I am feeling right now.

I am actually quite distrustful of beeboy. I feel like he goes with the flow too much and latching on to people's ideals and thoughts because it gives him strength and cover. I think the role he claimed is much too powerful to be true. Imagine that a game where the last townie has to be lynched because they commute every night. That seems kind of impossible and while it sounds amazing, it is that very amazingness that causes me to pause.

I will be honest with you, either flubber and nero are not on the same scum team. Or something is up. I expected, hell I would have put money down on Nero coming back vanilla. I cannot tell you how my eyebrows I want to raise that it came back false. I have half the gut to turn around and lynch flubber.

While I would love the chance to sk a Skull game again. I am frankly not good at being sk. So at least this time, it is not me.

[Suzune]

I am actually quite distrustful of beeboy. I feel like he goes with the flow too much and latching on to people's ideals and thoughts because it gives him strength and cover. I think the role he claimed is much too powerful to be true. Imagine that a game where the last townie has to be lynched because they commute every night. That seems kind of impossible and while it sounds amazing, it is that very amazingness that causes me to pause.

I commute e\/ery other night.

Makes me feel slightly better and provides more balance to the town. Probably you should not have said that second part.

[Suzune]

Makes me feel slightly better and provides more balance to the town. Probably you should not have said that second part.

I already claimed it is e\/ery other night. If scum think I am scum I am going to be lynched e\/entually anyway if I don't get killed.
I really don't want to be ali\/e in Lylo in all honesty anyway if we aren't already in it.

If we are already there, then we take out chances today. Sometimes you have to make a bold move. I tend to panic in lylo. So we shall see what happens.

[Suzune]

Rob13 - Gunsmith
Elyse - Claptrap, Conditional Miller Neighbourizer
Almost50 - Face McShooty, Self-Redirecting Martyr
YT2980 - Fiona, One-Shot Lynchproof
Maxous - TK Baha, Friendly Neighbor
beeboy - Lilith, Auto Commuter
Suzune - Roland, Loved SuperSaint
Nero Cain - Captain Scarlett, Vanilla Townie
Flubbernugget - Yvette, Ascetic Vanilla Cop
popsofctown - Colonel T. Zarpadon, Dead Thread Oracle
SirCakez - Axton, Vanilla Townie
T S O - Helena Pierce, Town FBI Agent

See our fancy list here, does not mention you are commuter every other night.

[Suzune]

Beeboy I thought you claimed auto commuter. As in every night

I'm still suspicious of Suzune's claim.

I swear this is what he claimed.

[Suzune]

Yeah I know. Gladiator + Supersaint
I know everything seems to be in pairs. It is the two of the same that interest me.

Sigh...
I think this will just escalate things eyen further but I am only a eyen night commuter.
I just didn't want people to waste actions on me/ be nked.

Yeah he did, odd.

I can see my reading was of excellent quality then, considering I was quoted but did not allow the response to sink in.

[Suzune]

That's a good point. Scum probably has a redirector.

Okay, for some reason this really annoys me. It annoys me because I suggested it on day two and everyone acted like it was a horrible idea. Since then everyone seems to suddenly think it is a good idea.

[Suzune]

Honestly, I think someone is lying and covering their scum buddy.

[Suzune]

My problem is if Flubber is lying then Rob is probably also lying.
I doubt we would ha\/e 2 fake cops in this game.

If it makes you feel better. I have been wondering about Rob for a while. I think someone has to be lying there are way to many unlucky coincidences.

[Suzune]

True but Pop's wouldn't ha\/e a role with 0 purpose so I am \/ery confident he is scum

maybe someone halfed their role. When I was sk. I claimed FBI agent. But I was really the Serial Killer and the cop. So the deputy was kind of confused. So I assume someone halved their role in order to fake claim and someone can use pops power.

[Suzune]

True but Pop's wouldn't ha\/e a role with 0 purpose so I am \/ery confident he is scum

maybe someone halfed their role. When I was sk. I claimed FBI agent. But I was really the Serial Killer and the cop. So the deputy was kind of confused. So I assume someone halved their role in order to fake claim and someone can use pops power.

Honestly, I just feel like it is too weird to be fake. I assume the sk can probably read the question.

[Suzune]

Hard to explain. There is a role that reads the dead thread. I forget what it is called. I assume that someone can read the dead thread and answer it.

[Suzune]

What if Mimi was a miller o.o

Wouldn't we know if she was a miller? We should have seen it on the flip right?

[Suzune]

Redirectors do not explain my result or flubber's.

Flubbers could be explained with a lie, I suppose. Likewise, yours could too.

[Suzune]

Say that lightning rod went off. All the investigative roles should say the lighting rod person's name.

[Suzune]

What if Mimi was a miller o.o

Wouldn't we know if she was a miller? We should have seen it on the flip right?

Ah I misunderstand Miller then.

Millar is a status that makes it so all investigative abilities on you come back scum. Likewise a reverse miller is when all investigative abilities come back town when you are scum.

[Suzune]

So Rob and Nero/Flubber are scum?

Well...it would solve a major problem with the kind of claims we are getting.

[Suzune]

Why can't we ha\/e normal scum who target the cops?

Well three possibilities really:

1. One all the cops are scum
2. The cops are unreliable so the scum feels no need to kill them
3. Some kind of ingame rule is messing with results.

Right, but Rob has been coasting on the not my fault for a long time.

[Suzune]

UNVOTE:

You know what, let's do this
VOTE: rob]

[Suzune]

I feel like he opened the door for it to happen. The long drawn out process. The claim he would sub out if it was wrong. The nonchalance about all the other strange reads. Just strikes me as odd.

[Suzune]

Rob is basically conf bastard role if Suzune is right.

It does not have to be bastard. He just might have fudged it a little to make it a better story.

[Suzune]

Mimi would have known if she was a miller, otherwise it would be a bastard game.
No we aren't lynching Rob, we are lynching either Nero or Pops.

Why are you against rob?

[Suzune]

Beeboy, I did not think you were really supporting this lynch?

[Suzune]

You could claim that. But that post clearly questions the role rather then making a decision about it.

[Suzune]

I am running a test of your play.

[Suzune]

I am running a test of your play.

My thought process is pretty clear honestly.

Not what I was testing.

[Suzune]

Beeboy I think you are interesting to play with. I would totally play with you again.

But, sometimes I think you compromise too much to remain in the clear. Those posts read as compromises to me. Compromises of feelings, actions, and positions. I am not sure if you do this to stay in the game, but it is odd.

[Suzune]

I deeply hope that did not come off as rude. I wanted it to be as friendly and positive as I could make it, but still getting a sense of the frustration I feel.

[Suzune]

Sometimes I have trouble telling. I do not want to be mean, just critical.

[Suzune]

{Rob. Pops}
{Elyse, Nero}
{Flubber, Cakes}
{Max, Suzune}

This is basically where I stand right now.

I do not know what this means.

[Suzune]

be mean to me Suzune.

Tell me what you really think of me.

HIT ME HARD SUZUNE

I have no reason to be mean to you. My gut says you are town. It is an unpopular opinion, but a lot of it is hinging on your role claim. Of everything claimed, it seems the most likely to fit and I think it fits well with the usual tricks in a Skull game. That being said you do little to make me want to not lynch you, you fail to win over the town, and you come off looking scummy. However, I find that I agree with your reads. So that throws me off too. So if anything stop being so confusing and play clearer.

[Suzune]

Nah Suzune you didn't come off as insulting at all. I don't belie\/e I played like that on day 1,2 and 3 but it is just once we got into a game state where town controlled 50% of the \/otes I got \/ery ner\/ous. We are basically in Lylo and I don't want to be the reason town loses in a 24p game since it just wouldn't be a good feeling to know that I messed it up for town.

You do not play enough tactical games. My guts says I should give you a pep talk. But maybe we should save that for after the game as I remain wary of your alignment.

[Suzune]

I am not sure if you are teasing me or not.

[Suzune]

But for real Rob needs to get roped or this mod needs to get better roles.

I think rob created an exploitable hole. By lynching him we close it a little bit.

[Suzune]

Well flubber it changed into the fact that Rob created kind of a loophole when he tunneled Nichole. This loopshole created a window where the town suddenly could no longer trust the results given because what if all the results were wrong. This window can be easily exploitable and we are now looking for lynch rob for the creation of said window. As, we have been told the game is not bastard. Therefore, I think a creative lie may have put us in the dark.

[Suzune]

Well, and this is not a discredit to you, but what happens makes everything else seem unreliable. We have been told over and over that it is not a bastard game. Therefore, something has to give, I firmly think there has to be a lie somewhere and I am hunting for it. When Flubber came back today and said that Nero was not vanilla. This sent my doubts through the roof. Something is wrong and while I do not know what it is, I am determined to get to the bottom of it.

I considered Flubber that it was an appeal at emotion. Like when someone says, "I'll make a bet". This effects other people's perceptions. Since he did not actually replace out, I feel conflicted.

[Suzune]

All this talk of "loopholes" and "windows" is either nonsense or obscuring your actual meaning. Your case on me is that I got a guilty on Mimi that shouldn't have been possible. I agree. But don't pretend that anything changed - you've had this info since Mimi's flip.

My feelings on this are actually very simple. You got a link on something that seemed good. Regardless of what Nicole showed you, you stood behind your result regardless. Even though opinion was beginning to sway, but a guilty was a guilty. When the hammer came down Nicole was revealed by herself once again to be town. At this point you could not and did not believe it. Said you would replace out if she was indeed town because bastard elements. She was revealed to indeed be town. Mod confirmed the game was not bastard. Yet rather then try to figure out your role you admit to not using it because it was not valuable. This seems odd to me because we lacked the chance to be able to understand it and work it out as a town. This raised red flags for me because while your reasoning was sound, it sounded like a convenient cover.

I would have put serious money on Nero coming back vanilla in the check. This set off red flags for me. First it told me that Nero and Flubber were not on the same team. But then the results began to be muffled. We began to worry about the validity of the data received. This further coupled with the mod's foundation that the game was not bastard. Therefore, there had to be a lie in there. Someone lied and covered. I traced it back to you because you were the first person to have the strange result that resulted in destruction for the town. So there was something there, some lie that created an apparent bastard situation. Does this makes sense to you Rob?

[Suzune]

@suzune you're accusing rob of playing dishonesty and using a lot of extra words to do it

Well, I guess, if I thought he was playing dishonestly I would just say that. Rather I think he played a scum hand well and deceived a lot of people. I am trying to trace the origin of the problem in hopes of finding a solution for the town. This seemed like the starting point.

[Suzune]

replace out for a wincon are explicitly illegal to my knowledge

Let us be very clear. I am not accusing him of doing anything illegal.

[Suzune]

@suzune you're accusing rob of playing dishonesty and using a lot of extra words to do it

Well, I guess, if I thought he was playing dishonestly I would just say that. Rather I think he played a scum hand well and deceived a lot of people. I am trying to trace the origin of the problem in hopes of finding a solution for the town. This seemed like the starting point.

I'm just trying to imput logic into a situation that I do not fully understand in order to hopefully find some pieces that fit.

[Suzune]

Then everyone disappeared again. This makes me feel so restless everytime it happens.

[Suzune]

Nicole was a false positive for a gunsmith much like Elyse is a false positive for RC's cop and maybe pops is a false positive for Flubbernugget.

Why do we have so many false positives though, that is what drives me crazy.

[Suzune]

i'm gonna be honest, for various reasons, I think Suzune is the last member of Hyperion Corporation, that's a big part of the reason I was trying to test her claim.

If you want to push me about something then, better to do it then bottle it up. As I said before, my role says loved. Therefore barring lylo I am loved. If you have something else you would like to talk to me about. Just bring it up.

[Suzune]

Bandwagons means what? Pushed for their lynch. Sure, I did that. I will not deny it.

Elyse seemed like a good choice. I was suspicious of her. Seemed like a good place to push. I am unsure why you are upset about that. Follow along for a minute. I have been hinting that I thought something was off about elyse all game. Therefore I do not think it is unfair that I tried to catch her.

Likewise you seem hung up on the fact that Nero was four from the bottom. Everyone on he bottom half had to be scum. I knew that due to the number of players. If you remember elyse was at the bottom. But at that time she was in open conversation. I fail to see what you see I guess/ Nero was online, I had nothing more then a meta feeling and small annoyance factor to go on. He was online and I took the oppertunity. If you want to argue that I attempted to use mets to guide a lynch on someone I have been following all game then I suppose there is a case for that.

Please let me know if there is something else you would like to hear about. Or if I was unclear somewhere.

[Suzune]

Missed the last point. Something about TSO. You are upset I did not vote on it. This is true I did not place a vote on it. While there was many good points for him to be scum, I struggled internally with the behavior of day three. He was so sure on rob that the lynch on Nicole was good. I doubted scum would press so hard for something obviously wrong. Since you have my reads list he fell about middle of the pack because he had some scummy moments and some curious ones.

[Suzune]

Please let me know if something is unclear or if you require to further prowl my brain for answers. I would rather clear up misunderstandings then allow them to fester. This breeds later hostility.

[Suzune]

So while I was in the shower I was pondering this, it comes within it of a story so bear with me. What about a role that flips results. Not a bus driver persay but something that jams and twists the truth. This would remove the bastard element. Once for a mafia game on another site, where are the games are quick twenty four hour phases, I created a role called a hacker. The role of the hacker was to garble up results either the vote count or individual roles results. If you consider for a minute the people who were hit rob was probably just unlucky. But we knew in advance that flubber was going to hit Nero because he said it yesterday. Thus someone is targeting those with abilities.

Too wild a thought?

[Suzune]

There is nothing wrong with my claim Elyse

I just do not want to painted as scum for following through on the same reads I have been keeping all game.

[Suzune]

both comments were I response to your rubbing you the wrong way post. Both the claim and I feel the reasons behind the votes are sound.

[Suzune]

You misunderstand. I would have bet big money on flubber saying that Nero is vanilla. The fact it came back no vanilla is the part I think is strange. Unless they are on opposite factions. But I the case flubber is town and Nero is scum.

Yes rob that was in the Claim list

[Suzune]

Oh yes that makes sense, lets sacrifice a townie in a gmae where frankly the town has not caught a break. That makes sense to me...

[Suzune]

Well I know I am. So I speak for myself on the matter.

[Suzune]

I am not a bargaining chip.

[Suzune]

Weird, cause I'm willing to compromise myself for you.

I am sorry I am not willing to play that game with you. You do not get to set me up to lose because you want a sacrifice.

[Suzune]

I assumed flu here claim was bad. The backing for it that unusual roles were town. It seemed like a mafia set up to me.

[Suzune]

I wish dead thread oracle let me talk to the only person who likes me this game

i like you this game

[Suzune]

Suzune could you shoot beeboy for me? He smells funny.

if it was within my power. I would.

[Suzune]

Well, night was interesting again.

I accepted your high five Elyse

[Suzune]

Well it is something else.

[Suzune]

A few more dead threats would have been ideal honestly. However, perhaps we can discover who cakes partners are by looking through his posts.

[Suzune]

A station chief sounds like a bus driver to me.

[Suzune]

Cakez always held it vote until the very end.

[Suzune]

I kind of think we should choose Flubber today.
i doubt it is the Sk. I really doubt it.

[Suzune]

Suzune, there is a spoiler that says what Cakez's role is. Cakez was not a bus driver. At this point I'm guessing the SK has the godlike redireciton power.

I did not even see that spoiler tag, Thanks for pointing it out.

[Suzune]

I think it is going to come up me as the other person on the chopping block. However, I am not Atlas therefore, unless it is a setup for a mislynch on me, it was not to direct attention.

[Suzune]

Beeboy has a point. It is the most gamble if we nolynch. By choosing to no lynch the power is put into the hands of the mafia

[Suzune]

You are claiming scum by voting no lynch

It gives all the power to the killing roles. Plus it has the highest gamble rate. I mean, why put the chance to win in someone else's hands.

[Suzune]

Beeboy if you are SK or lonely scum you need to unvote, your odds of surviving the crosskill game are way worse if you don't at least pretend you might be town.

Not a single person has been pretending to be town all game. Everyone has done really scummy things in my opinion.

There would have to be what one other atlas. It is in atlas's favor to vote no lynch.

p-edit. I agree it gives the mafia the most motive. An atlas needs to go down today.

[Suzune]

I agree. The best way to win is to lynch Atlas.

[Suzune]

So who's it going to be? I guess, I know who I want for today. Elyse cannot be Atlas because what is the point of having another private topic, although in this game I guess anything goes. Therefore, it narrows the possibility a little.

[Suzune]

Pops, my man, who are you thinking of voting for today

[Suzune]

I'll follow. Flubber I think is the way to go.

[Suzune]

VOTE: Flubber
Please let this be Atlas

[Suzune]

Oh my goodness, please, please please let this be Atlas

[Suzune]

I have gotten to the point where I do not believe anyone about their roles anymore.

[Suzune]

What?

[Suzune]

I read it as the opposite. He thought we were partners.

Oh well, this roles are complicated. I would not be surprised if half the party remaining is lynching about something. Or at least halved their role.

[Suzune]

I will not lie to you pops, nine times out of ten it is usually me who has the role that compliments the weirdest one. However, for once it is not me. I do not know who can read your question. But someone can and they lied.

[Suzune]

Congratulations Elyse.

Thanks for running this Skull. It was a great game~ I had a lot of fun

[Suzune]

She was my invest

Oh that is hard. To die with a result like that.

[Suzune]

Yeah, a Flubber beeboy sircakez team WOULD night kill me.

Likewise, I also proposed it. I worried since we had played together so recently that you would sum read me.

[Suzune]

No Radiant that is love. Love of the purest kind or perhaps fear

[Suzune]

It was a two fold feeling. You tend to complain that I am the worst mafia player ever when we play together. Or knock my ability to understand the game or something in that vein every time. I was having too much fun and loved my role and my place in the team, to have those feelings flood this game would have changed my perspective.

p-edit, was I aware you were scum. Yes. I thought I could not hit you because of the commute.

[Suzune]

Top half of that is at Radiant

[Suzune]

I knew you were buddying me. Only scum ever buddy me. But I needed you, you supported me. I had no on my team and you fought my battles. Would do it again if in the same position.

[Suzune]

I'm sorry if I've played in a way that that's how you remember me.

Alas, games bring out the competitive spirit in people. I allowed myself to get burned. I will try to be careful not to give you more of a chance in the future~

[Suzune]

I just felt as though if I buddied you e\/en as scum I had a 0% chance of being lynched lol.
My plan this game was buddy anyone I could to sa\/e me from my terrible day 1.

You fought my battles. The two mafia factions could win together. So I figured, worse comes to worse, we could co-win. Your posts were falling apart towards the end, but I figured if it came down to three I could lead a lynch on you. I believe to win as mafia you need strong allies. You chose me and I benefited from the deal.

[Suzune]

As far as balance goes, I think this setup was fine. Personally, I don't think you need A50's role when you have 3-3-1 already for scum, but it's not too bad.

Was Handsome Jack able to use his dead 1-shot ability in LyLo? If so, I would have changed that too, since in that situation, LyLo is moved up a day.

beeboy gave me an out that I ran with. The story was, I would lose my loved status if the only way to achieve a lynch was for me to vote myself.