BLOODBORNE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Irrational]

Toogeloo: How have they been more transparent than anyone else?

I'm referring to their slot being more transparent in general. Frozen wears her heart on her sleeve, making her less deceptive in general when it comes to motivations.

...

Have you ever played with scum frozen?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Umm. There's little to be informed about? I asked the moderator how the whole hunt thing functions before game start. And now you're weakening that transparency thing. What exactly is so transparent about her if she is the same way regardless of alignment.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

What do you think we could possibly learn beyond what's in the mechanics of the game? We know the master chooses whether to proceed or withdraw, we know the dungeon is detrimental to those who enter, we know failure has a small reward, success has a larger reward, and rhe huntmaster gets the largest reward for success, and that the boss encounters victory or failure is determined through garnering votes.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I also had a theory that the A50/Toogeloo/Shadow_step votes represented a rebellion against the forming town bloc by those who have been excluded from it.

A50 and shadow_step both said they'd be willing to vote for one of the two of us as well, but for some reason they ended up voting for R&L and propping that particular wagon up to compete with ours, rather than propelling anyone into a clear lead.

It's something I'd do super deliberately to see how people reacted, but I somehow doubt that's why they did it.

A50: Why did you vote R&L over me again, for huntmaster?

R&L: Anything less than an incredibly strong town read I will not be voting for as huntmaster. You're null, and that's because I'm rebelling against a desire to scum read you solely because of the composition of your support(as GW just mentioned). You're quite far from town. What makes you think I town read you? What have you EVER done in this game that I've expressed approval of or agreement with?

-Cerb

pedit: But, I agree with it? Obviously he implied a greater degree of certainty than you can have, but he said the same thing i've been saying, only in absolute terms.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Are you suggesting that I'm not a good huntmater or a good candidate for party as I am a real manipulative scum player RI ?

really?

~Rylai

You're a bad huntmaster because I don't trust your able to select town for your party, and I don't have any reason to think you're town.

huntmaster : Mixed6

I asked more than 10 times from you to explain your read or thoughts about me and your dodging that question again and again ...

~Rylai

What else do you want me to say beyond what I said in the bolded part of that quote?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Your advertising to Mixed to don't take me in party

I won't do that for a null read and I'm sure you won't do that if your null on me

explain your case against me and stop being hypocritical this much.
~Rylai

I don't have a case against you? I just have no reason to think you're town. You've done nothing to give me a reason to townread you.

Mixed6 will do as he chooses, but based on ABR heads opinion he expressed earlier today, it's easy to see that it's very unlikely you'd be invited to their party. I'm not advertising anything, I'm stating something which seems obvious to me.

-Cerb

Pedit: I said you were a good player a few hours ago, but you said yourself that town hunting isn't what you do.

[Reasonably Irrational]

I don't have a case against you? I just have no reason to think you're town. You've done nothing to give me a reason to townread you.

I have more than 300 posts

I can't beleive your null on me. if your null on me now - you will stay null on me for the rest of the game unless someone find a guilty on me.

Your saying crap that I'm a really good scum player means being towinsh means I can be scum is not a good excuse for being null on me.

and yes you are saying "I doubt they pick her" like your in their heads. I am town , I am sure that I can be a very useful member in that party and your shitting around is not going to be tolerated nicely by me.

~Rylai

I never said you were a really good scum player either? I said toogeloos reason for viewing you as being transparent wasn't a good one.

And sure, you have 300 posts, but I can easily be null on you. You're acting like you've never played with me before. The simple fact that you have that much content means I need to actually put in a boat load of time to analyze your posts so far this game to arrive at a read of significance, and I haven't put in the time to do that.

It...doesn't matter how nicely you'll tolerate me telling you something which should be obvious to everyone. That doesn't change the fact that I'm right.

-Cerb

Pedit; you're good at finding scum. That's what we were talking about earlier. I'm fairly certain the majority of people who play this game with us are geniuses FA, so that's a rather pointless thing to say. I'm not sure what game relevance our current conversation has?

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm going to pull a Drixx right now, actually: could you please say something that stakes your pride and mafia ability on your scum read of my slot right now? I would love to be able to add you to my main account signature right next to RC.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

my IQ is 178 i'm a card carrying member of mensa.

ILU nahdia. This is why you're never going to be lynched D1 in a game I'm part of. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

he started doubt casting on my slot sinsce the moment Fire replaced out , while he is calling his read on me null.

~Rylai

What have I doubt cast? I've expressed my distaste with the way you handled that situation, and told you repeatedly(at your behest) why I don't believe you'd be a good huntmaster.

Is answering your questions doubt casting you now?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

VOTE: Bogre

L-2. Reminder.

ABR: why aren't we waiting for a replacement/for Bogre to speak up?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

There's clearly plenty of conversation still happening. I don't understand why we want to end it now.

-Cerb

Pedit: apparently we have different definitions of doubt casting. I've been stating facts about her and my opinions of her, in response to her questions. If my answer had been: because I think you're scum/do not think you're town, would that still be doubtcasting?

[Reasonably Irrational]

The people who were voting you aa huntmaster all sucked independently of you, with the exception of Nahdia. The fact that they were voting for you thus reflected poorly on your slot.

Also, ABR, I really feel we need to hear A50s explanation for his read change on your slot before we end the day.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

The mod didn't slip that he was town. He just hates when people are sucking like half the game is and shit all over his game by not actually playing it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

This isn't new? I've never liked any of those slots but Nahdia.

-Cerb

Pedit: hmph. KC, corroborate please. How strong is this explanation A50 gave?

Peditx2: I hated your reasoning, Nahdia, but your slot doesn't suck like the others one do.

Peditx3: I specifically said she's a good player. *shrug* we all have our strengths. Noting hers while also noting weaknesses isn't doubtcasting imo, but whatever.

[Reasonably Irrational]

There is no "not today".

A lynch isn't happening until you explain yourself.

Then you ISO them, mate. And try to pay attention to their talk and logic behind it. It's all there in bits and pieces, and it won't take you much effort to put 2 and 2 together.

I'm not going to say anymore about any of my town reads though. It's bad enough that most of them are prime targets for "evil acts" such as NK's, redirection and roleblocking. Also two are going with me into the dungeon and they both take precedence over me, so -I presume- they're more vulnerable to the beasts and bosses too.

I know why I townread them. I'm far more interested in why you do. Checking their ISO myself won't answer thar question.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

ok

Bloodletter : Bogre

becuase I really hated that slot posts and I am trusting you

will you beleive in me too?

~Rylai

Yes. You will be granted your chance.

...

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Cerb what is your case against me.

what about his response deserved a "..." if your null on me?

~Rylai

Everything.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

and you mind answering the questions I already asked you?

and whats exactly everything if your null on me

~Rylai

I do mind. Not a computer, haven't been since I started posting, too much work for lengthy responses.

Anyone less than a strong town read should not be in the party. I thought we had alreasy established that? You aren't a strong town read. Therefore, the idea of you being in the party is terrible.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Such pivotal roles in Varsoon's games include bulletproof serial killers,which are in the same game as serial killers with the ability to endgame 5 town players as soon as they lynch the last scum. Give me a break, guys. I know exactly where this is going, and it will benefit us, and drive a knife into the scum's heart.

DS was lynchproof. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Actually, I'm going to totally and scummily ignore you from now on R&L. So have fun with that. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Before day end, I should say something: when sending your messages tonight, identify who you are, and say something like "my first post tomorrow will be "banana" to prove that it's really me."

That will allow you to confirm the source of the information you send, without revealing what you said or to whom. You can also receive responses in the same way, by requesting that they say certain words to indicate certain answers.

Random: Remember the golden rule.

-Cerb

Okay last thing I'm gonna respond to you about at this point: it is impossible for you to keep me from endgame.

Impossible.

You lack the strength.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Before day end, I should say something: when sending your messages tonight, identify who you are, and say something like "my first post tomorrow will be "banana" to prove that it's really me."

That will allow you to confirm the source of the information you send, without revealing what you said or to whom. You can also receive responses in the same way, by requesting that they say certain words to indicate certain answers.

didn't i already say this

You may have, and if so, I missed it. I think it bears repeating. I meant to say it awhile ago but figured it'd be best to save for right before day end so it isn't lost in the noise of the thread.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

My decision to cease interacting is part of the deescalation

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

R&L vs RI

That movie makes me happy.

Zorblag, ABR, choosing R&L tonight would be a mistake.

So, anyways what else is there to talk about?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

This game is becoming just.........I don't know if the word toxic is appropriate, but its definitely not enjoyable.
I would prefer waiting for a replacement for Bogre than lynching them for being inactive, especially since mod is going to accommodate a search, but seriously this thread is blowing up too fast and I think we can all do without spam posts.

what about me pushing RI and he doubt casting me is not enjoyable ?

~Rylai

I think you need to focus less on people pushing you or suggesting you aren't fit for huntsmaster and focus more on the whole game. You seem to get distracted easily when someone pushes you. I am leaning town on you right now, but your reactions can get heated and I can't read into them. No offense.

QFT.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm going to pull a Drixx right now, actually: could you please say something that stakes your pride and mafia ability on your scum read of my slot right now? I would love to be able to add you to my main account signature right next to RC.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Bleh. Gotta make sure there's a buffer so we don't end up with a tie.

Huntmaster Vote: Mixed6

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

VOTE: Bogre

:\

sorry varsoon. i really hate that the game is being played this way tbh.

Yep.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

ABR: choose wisely tonight.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Cerb if we're the master hunter, we're taking you hunting too buddy.

Rampage

A reminder! :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Before day end, I should say something: when sending your messages tonight, identify who you are, and say something like "my first post tomorrow will be "banana" to prove that it's really me."

That will allow you to confirm the source of the information you send, without revealing what you said or to whom. You can also receive responses in the same way, by requesting that they say certain words to indicate certain answers.

Random

: Remember the golden rule.

-Cerb

Okay last thing I'm gonna respond to you about at this point: it is impossible for you to keep me from endgame.

Impossible.

You lack the strength.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Reciprocity.

Purchase Item: Saw Cleaver

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

You stole my shell man. I mean, I guess it's fine, but think of all the awesome beast killing votes I could have had! 4!!!!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

So, umm. Liger. Maybe let's not claim neighborhoods and such in public.

That goes out to everyone? Probably shouldn't claim yo shit in public. You're decreasing the strength of the neighborhoods in the event they're purely town. You also remove the possibility of catching scum slips if they reveal they know things they shouldn't know from your neighborhood, because you limit the number of possible leaks.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Let's not vote for anyone until at least everyone has gotten a chance to post, including the lurkers from yesterday.

Agreed.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Vote: Rylai & Lina

why you chose gladiating instead of death?

~Rylai

If you are right, that means they are more likely scum.
Town wouldn't cause a gladiate to begin a day.

Umm. You're wrong. Survivalism is NAI.

As town, it is your job to stay alive and find scum. If you're offered the choice between survival, and causing a gladiate with someone whose alignment is unknown to you, you should almost always choose the gladiate.

The exception is if you know your death will give a significant amount of information, along the lines of actually confirming people as town with your flip.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Umm. You're wrong. Survivalism is NAI.

As town, it is your job to stay alive and find scum. If you're offered the choice between survival, and causing a gladiate with someone whose alignment is unknown to you, you should almost always choose the gladiate.

The exception is if you know your death will give a significant amount of information, along the lines of actually confirming people as town with your flip.

-Cerb

No, choosing to limit the number of options for a lynch on our next day is EXTREMELY anti town. Town is supposed to survive, but if I had to chose between forcing an auto gladiate at the beginning of the day or death. I would have picked death. That gladiate would not help the town unless you are 100% certain on your scumread of the person.

Then you would have made the wrong choice imo. ^^

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

He added me because I'm town and he gains insight. Did you read his role pm ?

yeah I read it.

but why you? instead of all these other town he could add?

is there anyone counter claiming this? (to be added in the nightmare thingi?)

~Rylai

Cause there are certain advantages of being in the Hunter's nightmare PT.
Which I won't disclose. That would just be giving scum info.

Maybe he thought I wouldn't be able to put those to good use?
Idk, its a question nobody has an answer to except him and he is dead.

umm.

It's a scum mechanic. He had access to the PT. Unless you received a PM from Varsoon telling you of some benefits/powers you gained from being in that PT that weren't outlined in the PT itself, scum know ALL of the benefits you're talking about.

And even if you did receive such a PM, unless Varsoon specifically informed you that the scum do not know of this information, you should assume they do know about it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Everyone please be aware that someone purchased the Monocular. This gives them the ability to spy on. PTs. You can tell it's been purchased since it's crossed out.

It's also 8,000 Blood Echoes, and yesterday's lynch was only worth 6,000 which means either...

A) Someone started with a bank of Blood Echoes or gets extra echoes for slaying a player.
B) The person who shot Sensei was also on the Bogre wagon, and Sensei's value was enough to get him the 8k.
C) Sensei was worth 8k or more more Echoes.

It's almost assuredly in scum hands though.

I had this whole idea that whoever bought the monocle should spy on bogres nightmare to see if shadow is in there, thus making him near conftown

But then it turned out scum bought it cuz they're scum. Barring some shenanigans it should be someone on the Bogre wagon so we can PoE from that

I have nothing of value to add. R&l should die and is lying about being able to kill shadow instantly. *nods, smiles*

[Reasonably Irrational]

A day may come when

the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship.

I remember to sign my posts. But it is not this day!

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

You're telling me that R&L can vig someone, but the target can say no and force a gladiate, but then R&L can kill them anyway?

The point would be what the fuck, exactly?

She's blustering because she doesn't want anyone to vote her.

Disclaimer, on the off chance I'm wrong I don't think I want anyone to push her over the edge, so stay your votes for now bros. Just yeah, she's lying.

[Reasonably Irrational]

A50, you should have something to share. If you're waiting for some reason, stop. Share.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I found myself lost in a reverie, staring at the moon hanging full over Yharnam. A single arrow arched through the sky and, after it came down, the lynchmob behind me fell deathly silent. I imagined a lone hunter atop a church spire, sniping down the madmen that drove Yharnam to its pitiful state.

For a moment, I felt happy, knowing someone out there was capable of hushing the madness of this city.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

A50, you should have something to share. If you're waiting for some reason, stop. Share.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

A50, you should have something to share. If you're waiting for some reason, stop. Share.

-Cerb

I'm dumb.

That is all.

Carry on.

<3

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

You're telling me that R&L can vig someone, but the target can say no and force a gladiate, but then R&L can kill them anyway?

The point would be what the fuck, exactly?

She's blustering because she doesn't want anyone to vote her.

Disclaimer, on the off chance I'm wrong I don't think I want anyone to push her over the edge, so stay your votes for now bros. Just yeah, she's lying.

That's irrational. In a game with mechanics everyhwere, why not give the questing vig or whatever a 1-shot fuck-you-anyway kill were someone select to gldiate? Or 2 shot? or whatever?

Your logic is as bad as R&L with "only scum choose to live".

You're telling me that R&L can vig someone, but the target can say no and force a gladiate, but then R&L can kill them anyway?

The point would be what the fuck, exactly?

She's blustering because she doesn't want anyone to vote her.

Disclaimer, on the off chance I'm wrong I don't think I want anyone to push her over the edge, so stay your votes for now bros. Just yeah, she's lying.

This logic sucks considering what she's claiming is provable.

-Dragons

Quoting this so I can tell both of you to go fuck yourself when R&L flips ^3^

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

@MOD: Is a NO LYNCH still possible today?

No. One of Rylai and Lina or Shadow_Step must be lynched.

What happens if we wait until deadline?

-Dragons

Plurality. If the wagons are even, then Shadow_Step will die. Just lynch one of the two. C'mon.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Calling it that at least two scum are in the party. RI thinking I'm an SK makes no sense.

I did not say I thought you were an SK. I said there is NO chance that you're groupscum, but it's not impossible for you to be 3p.

Big difference there. People need to learn that I say what I mean. If I had thought you might be a serial killer I would have said he might be a serial killer. Your actions are not ones that I could imagine a member of groupscum performing, therefore you can not be part of groupscum, however, those actions do not give me any feelings either way about you being 3p. So, I don't think you're 3p, I just don't have any reason to think you're NOT, while I have reason to think you're not groupscum.

Does that make sense random?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Arrow, mixed is town, and we have possibly arrived at an accommodation regarding the huntmaster position . Possibly.

Mixed6, how likely do you believe it is that Shinobi is town by virtue of his usage of insight on N1?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm still null. Until you engage with the game or give more information than just ranger style lists from 80 pages back, you are null.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

You should share what this post is.

And you're wrong about it. 95% certainty they're town.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia, 220 was genuine yes?

I think Ircher might not be able to read your tone yet.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Yes, that's what I mean. It was sarcastic, but the intent was agreement to back off, not sarcasm intended to indicate that the idea of backing down was ridiculous, which is the other interpretation of sarcastic agreement.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

A50 is also almost certainly town.

Just sayin.

Also, HA: if Mixed6 is familiar with Nahdia and her play/speech patterns, why wouldn't he take it as genuine? I took it as genuine because of my familiarity with her tones.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

why, for killing R&L?

Other reasons, actually, but that helps.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Secret reasons, I presume?

Mhm. You have your secret too.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Liger:

A50 is also almost certainly town.

Just sayin.

Also, HA: if Mixed6 is familiar with Nahdia and her play/speech patterns, why wouldn't he take it as genuine? I took it as genuine because of my familiarity with her tones.

-Cerb

why, for killing R&L?

why, for killing R&L?

Other reasons, actually, but that helps.

-Cerb

Secret reasons, I presume?

Secret reasons, I presume?

Mhm. You have your secret too.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

So, two things from the messages I received.

Whoever told me they were performing an action on someone else, you didn't tell me who you are. I don't know if this was intentional or not, but it's a thing. The message was just signed with two letters I didn't understand...if they were meant as a signature(I mean, there's an obvious meaning to them, but I don't know why you'd specifically sign off with that instead of your fucking name).

Viridian(this is just to get your attention, not for the other reason): I have cause to believe your interpretation of the threat certain parties pose is wrong. The flavor is correct for a threat, but a threat it is not. Quite the opposite, actually, from the information I've received.

-Cerb

pedit: The rewards were at least 3k echoes, which is far from nothing. But if you guys want to think that's nothing, sure. I suppose you know what the price you paid for the rewards was, so...

[Reasonably Irrational]

Purchase: Molotov Cocktail

Okay. I've been letting people do this for too long.

Let me help you guys out with a bit of optimization: When it comes to consumables, do not purchase them if you are not planning on using them immediately, or in that nights hunt. There is NO REASON to purchase these items in advance, because you could always purchase it in the same post where you use it. By purchasing an item you can buy multiple times, you're only limiting your versatility when it comes to buying higher ticket items.

Scum probably aren't being dumb enough to spend their echoes on things like this, so we shouldn't be either.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'll be sad if Nahdia's scum, and even sadder if we mislynch her, but in keeping with the spirit of bloodborne I will assist in every lynch that happens this game.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Eh, they did create the push entirely. They left the wagon to resolve "something", and then came back and pushed evwryone to finish it off.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Also, it's good to see you house, haven't played in a game together since like my first game on site or something. ^^

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Dwlee, familiarize yourself with the game state. Seriously.

Also, I am currently declining to answer your question, because I haven't talked to Elbirn about whether or not we should share certain information with the general public yet.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Sorry to see you go, wgeurts
good luck with what's going on irl

It's much better to face these kinds of things with a sense of poison rationality.

omg dont mess up one of my fave songs. it is POISE AND RATIONALITY
/random post
yo, so,

realistically irrational person is patches the spider a person or naw m9

?

This question is the one I'm declining to respond to.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

SirCakez, vote for Zulfy. He's useless.

Perceived utility is not an adequate method for deciding lynch candidates, ya poop

Did you invite someone to your nightmare?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Toogeloo: Why did you claim? You're not at risk of being lynched right now. You aren't trying to protect Nahdia. Why claim?

It doesn't make sense. Claiming killproof under no pressure is the scummiest of fucking scummy things to do.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Liar. Just stahp.

In other news:

A thought just crossed my mind: What if Patches the Spider is controlled by the same person who died N0?

the n0 death was pure flavor.

Exactly.

Toogeloo: Why did you claim? You're not at risk of being lynched right now. You aren't trying to protect Nahdia. Why claim?

It doesn't make sense. Claiming killproof under no pressure is the scummiest of fucking scummy things to do.

-Cerb

In this particular case, the information is better left said than unsaid. Knowing there is another PT out there that increases Nahdia's lynch threshold and sells items for killing players is kind of important, as is the reasons for why I wasn't in a big hurry to lynch Nahdia, a slightly lesser read than my main town reads.

I don't care that people know my role as it's not an "imperative" role to keep around, as compared to say a Cop or Doctor, and I also wanted to let scum know they can't get rid of me that easily either but also that a Doctor shouldn't waste their time protecting me for now at the same time. My activity level also presents a problem for scum since they have to decide to waste two shots on me, a slot that isn't in a position of leadership but might still be a threat down the road (when they may not have the luxury to waste two shots on me).

Disagree. And even if the rest of that were true, there was no need to claim your deathproof thing.

-cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

KC, Toogeloo wants to lynch within the pool of people who were on the lynch yesterday, and have not spent enough echoes that it makes it unlikely they bought the monocles, because he believes it is almost certain that scum control the monocles.

Now, his reason for the obsession with that is likely tied in with the fact that he had a neighborhood, and he probably claimed too because he outlined all the benefits of his role to his new member or something, so he expected scum to spy on him or them at some point and see what he could do anyways.

At the start of the day I felt it was likely that scum had purchased the monocles, however, there seem to be other methods fo rpeople to gain echoes beyond just lynches(people being town), so...idk. It could easily have been bought by a town slot being proactive.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

.
At the start of the day I felt it was likely that scum had purchased the monocles, however, there seem to be other methods fo rpeople to gain echoes beyond just lynches(people being town), so...idk. It could easily have been bought by a town slot being proactive.

Example?

Perhaps you see no reason to talk about it, but I do. I did not give you the gift of knowledge so that you could hoard it. Come now, share with the class.

Ok we got 3K blood echoes and 1 insight.

Sadly we cannot gain insight.

fixing that 2k

~Rylai

It seems patches gave R&L 2k blood echoes. If there's one role which may grant echoes, I don't see any reason to assume there are no others. If another such role exists and is town aligned, it's more likely than not that it was used on town who was on the lynch(given that mathematically the lynch was composed of more town than scum), and only one kill happened last night, so I would only expect one scum to have potentially had the 8k echoes.

In addition, given that Mixed6 was part of the hunting party and showed he had gained at least 3k echoes, and the huntmaster gained that and more(though she hasn't told us what), all members of the party who were on the lynch could have also purchased the item, and again, are more likely than not to be town.

So yeah.

I think it's actually more likely that town bought the monocle than scum. I was thinking the same way as Toogeloo earlier in the day(I said as much in the huntmaster PT), but have since changed my mind after thinking about it further and seeing what was said by patches regarding R&L.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Touche.

I know who has the monocle.

They are not scum.

That is all I'll say for now.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Knowledge of who had the monocle was known to certain parties within the game this whole time, but sharing who has it wouldn't be beneficial.

However, dispelling the paranoia is.

But, of course, given that you'll all have to trust my judgment when I say they're town(and your own read on me as town I suppose), it honestly shouldn't do much to dispel the paranoia.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Cerb has it lol

11k echoes eh? Do you believe I'm generous enough with the available power that I would pass up on buying a 10k weapon in favor of buying a 3k+the monocles to keep them out of scum hands?

Do you think I somehow gained 5k extra echoes without being in the party, and while only one kill happened last night, while thinking I'm town?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Valid point.
Anyways.

I think it would be reasonable to put Zulfy and Peregrine V both to L4 (6 votes), and lynch them both today using ranger and mixed6's multi voting weapons.

Thoughts?

[Reasonably Irrational]

Valid point.
Anyways.

I think it would be reasonable to put Zulfy and Peregrine V both to L4 (6 votes), and lynch them both today using ranger and mixed6's multi voting weapons.

Thoughts?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

House, if we don't double lynch, you are not going to be on a lynch wagon, period. The party commands 8/10 votes required for a lynch, amd you aren't townread enough that we're going to allow you on it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

How so? What sort of help would you like? Is it echoes you seek?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

How so? What sort of help would you like? Is it echoes you seek?

-Cerb

Nope.

My utility won't kick in until we lose some town, at which point I become an equalizer.

Since I town read Mixed, and by extension, you, I'll let you decide if you want me to disclose more than that before tonight.

No need. Just curious what you meant about helping you.

I don't understand how not having you on the lynch is relevant if echoes aren't what you seek, but okies. I'm sure you have your reasons.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

A50, GW, Randomidget, Mixed6 are all not scum.

That's all I've got.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

GW=Dwlee99 now.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Ya, ithat was pretty damn good. Best counter to anti-town play is a day vig on the source. Much joy was had.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Yo random, it would be fantastic if you were part of whatever lynch happens today, k?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

An announcement, oh brave hunters.

As of the beginning of this day, there were 14 town and 5 scum players alive.

Millers and Godfathers dilute these results. Scum refers only to the scum faction; the Cosmos.

The missing player in those results is my own slot; I am officially a 3rd party. That is why the total only amounts to 19 when the vote count reflected 20 living players. In this way, we know there are no other third party members unless their role specifically lists them as a Godfather or investigating as scum.

Oh yeah mb.
I think Varsoon said he would never use a gf though

Look at the ratios. We killed a scum yesterday. Definitely not a godfather (because that would mean 7 members of the scum team), probably not a godfather AND a miller(because 6 member team), very likely a miller (5 scum on the team sounds right).

D&D: reasons, and reasons. There was the whole exchange yesterday with random, for one, or did you miss that?

Nahdia, why did Toog out all that stuff. His reasons are very weak to me. How do you feel about them? Is it NAI, or significant?

How is his play and posting within said hood?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Okay, so how do you feel about him outing it and his reasons for doing so?

[Reasonably Irrational]

"You must have had a fine time of it. Yarnham has a special way of treating guests. I don't think I can stand if I wanted to, but I'm willing to help, if there's anything that can be done. This town is cursed. Whatever your reasons might be you should plan a swift exit. Whatever can be gained from this place, it will do more harm than good."

-Gilbert

VOTECOUNT 2.0

Shinobi (1):

[FIRE]

Almost50 (1):

[FIRE]

Not Voting (19):

Mixed6, Heuristic_Arrow, Rylai and Lina, Hastur and Muriel, Reasonably Irrational, Klingoncelt, Nahdia, Xkyfu, Shadow_Step, Randomidget, Zulfy, PeregrineV, Gee Willikers, Toogeloo, Ranger, Shinobi, Liger_Zero, Almost50, Patches the Spider

With 20 Alive, it takes 11 to Lynch.
Due to a private effect, only Rylai and Lina and Shadow_Step may be voted for during Day 2.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-06-18 08:00:00)

The Master of the Hunt is

Mixed6

The Hunter's Party is

Reasonably Irrational, Klingoncelt, and Ranger

The Chosen Chalice Ritual is

Hintertomb

Available Chalice Dungeons:

Spoiler:

Central Pthumeru Chalice

- Depth 2

Hintertomb Chalice

- Depth 2

Ailing Loran Chalice

- Depth 4

Great Isz Chalice

- Depth 5

20 alive at day start.

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm uncertain why you believe she has beasthood (her negative utility crumb?).

Something everyone should know : Apparently, even though the opening post of this day phase says there were 20 alive at day start, I have cause to believe there were actually 21 alive at day start.

No, I have no idea what it means or how that is possible(a role which can fake death perhaps?) but the information comes from a source I trust.

The implication is that there exists another third party beyond patches.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

No, it's not because of a dead slots posting.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

so you think sensei faked his death?

Honestly, I have no fucking idea. Theres limited options to account for the discrepancy though.

New slot added to the game. A hidden slot in the game (that may enter public view later). Someone listed as dying without actually ending up dead.

Not sure what else it could be, and those are all really weird.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I still think someone from the lynch yesterday needs to be lynched today.

Unvote;
Vote: Hastur and Muriel

Logic?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

The monocle argument? That's no longer valid.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Toog, Cerb has the monocle. People pooled their BEs and donated them to Cerb so he bought it at the start of the day. He's been using it to fact check a player today. We got the monocle.

Toog brings up a good point @Rational

If you don't answer, I shall move my vote to emphasize the point.

~Arrow

Pedit: Ridiculous..... So, you guys created all that WIFOM for nothing?!!! Gah lee!

~Arrow

We're using it as a tool to keep everyone honest. Revealing Cerb has now put a new target on his back which we were trying to avoid. I wasn't supposed to tell you that Cerb has it, but there it is. He can admonish me for it later. We can move on now.

Next time, just say one of the Hunts party has it.

It lends more credibility while keeping scum on their toes.
~Arrow

PS: Ugh.... Feels like I'm doin' all the work in this hydra. Wish Heur would post more.......

Pedit: Again, why us? Give us til next Sunday.

Pedit2: Nah, I think Toog is town too.

Confirming what Mixed6 said. I was willing to go along with Mixed6's plan for a bit but I didn't like the rising paranoia and the fact that other people wouldn't be using their pts to their full potential out of fear, and figured I could maintain the anonymity while reassuring everyone.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Finished 29.

Town: (Yume), Reasonable, Dragon, Ranger
Lean Town: Gee, Xk, Sensei
Neutral Town: Rylai, Toog, Random
Null: Peregine, Kling, Hastur
Neutral Scum: Shadow, Shinobi, Nahdia, Fire
Lean Scum: Patches, Zuffy, Almost
Scum: Bogre, Mixed

~Arrow

Finished 40.

Town: (Yume), Reasonable, Dragon, Sensei, Gee
Lean Town: Ranger, Rylai
Neutral Town: Toog, Random, Almost
Null: Peregine, Hastur
Neutral Scum: Shadow, Shinobi, Nahdia, Fire, Xk
Lean Scum: Zulfy, Kling
Scum: Bogre, Mixed
TPR Benign: Patches

~Arrow

People who put flipped scum in their reads list are my trigger.

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

VC please?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia, unvote please for a bit.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Never mind.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

VOTE: Liger

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Can we please not hammer before we 1) get claims and/or 2) at least hear from the slots in question?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Just having two slots this close to lynch is making me really really paranoid.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

That is suspect. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia, Random, D&D, shadow_step: I believe it would be better for all parties if they were on a HA wagon, rather than on a wagon he's trying to push to lynch.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Can we please not hammer before we 1) get claims and/or 2) at least hear from the slots in question?

-Cerb

Just having two slots this close to lynch is making me really really paranoid.

-Cerb

UNVOTE:

If you are that paranoid, then why'd you bring the Liger wagon to L-3?

~Arrow

To make sure I was on a wagon if someone did somethign stupid and hammered, duh.

Plus I'm about 10000000x more active than anyone else on this site, and I find it highly unlikely that someone I'm on a wagon for would be ninja hammered without me having the chance to unvote and prevent it from happening.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

How close are you to being caught up and actually giving meaningful content HA?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

More likely cuz H&M has done nothing this entire game.

Now I'm on like pg 56. Fire isn't looking that good now tbh and I may reconsider, but H&M have done very little.

Do you think activity levels are alignment indicative?

Do you have any other reasons to think H&M are scum?

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

More likely cuz H&M has done nothing this entire game.

Now I'm on like pg 56. Fire isn't looking that good now tbh and I may reconsider, but H&M have done very little.

Do you think activity levels are alignment indicative?

Do you have any other reasons to think H&M are scum?

-Elbirn

In some ways, yes.

And they are notoriously impossible to lynch.... Massive.... Katsuki.... Lurkers can just lurk to victory; it's ridiculous.
~Arrow

They're not actually lurking. *shrug*

And they're new, not Massive or Katsuki.

And I will always make sure lurkers die.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

In any case, their "content which is relevant to the game at the time of posting" is about as high as yours.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

More likely cuz H&M has done nothing this entire game.

Now I'm on like pg 56. Fire isn't looking that good now tbh and I may reconsider, but H&M have done very little.

Do you think activity levels are alignment indicative?

Do you have any other reasons to think H&M are scum?

-Elbirn

In some ways, yes.

And they are notoriously impossible to lynch.... Massive.... Katsuki.... Lurkers can just lurk to victory; it's ridiculous.
~Arrow

Not to mention that they're apathetic & aren't helping at all. They only pop up when it is convenient or when they are largely suspected.
~Arrow

Colour me unimpressed.

As I asked before, do you have any other reasons to think H&M are scum? Is there more to your read than "they're lurking and lurking is bad"? What was running through your head when you decided to vote for them? Take me there.

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

And now arrow self-voted. This slot is urghhh.

Its just scum denying town blood echoes *popcorn*

[Reasonably Irrational]

Randomidget, if you're around, please vote Heuristic_Arrow. That would be awesome. <3

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

VC please?

-Cerb

I've wanted you here forever Varsoon. I've NEEDED you.

-Cerb

Apologies. I'm trying to get in as much quality time with my roommate before I move out.
Today we played through Megaman X4 as Zero. Twice, because our Ps2 ran into an error at the last boss, so we had to swap to playing on my PS3fat.
I gotta say, Sigma is a total pain in the ass in that game.

[Reasonably Irrational]

I don't care about you being on the wagon. I care about certain people being on the wagon, and about us not rushing this lynch(because as of right now, Arrow could be hammered by a single additonal vote).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Yes, because ABR is a fucking fool.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

VOTE: Heuristic_arrows

Just in case.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Last night there were two negative effects to the dungeon.

At the first portion, we were required to take 5 poison votes, divided however we chose, among the members of the party. I chose to take them all because it would put me at L-4, and I was confident in it being unlikely that I would be a preferred lynch for today, while Mixed6 I expected to come under fire for the hammer yesterday, and KC/Ranger for their relative lack of involvement in the game.

Basically, I didn't see there being an "excuse" someone could use to get away with attempting to quicklynch our slot, so felt it was safest if we took all the votes.

After we accomplished that portion of the dungeon, we were informed that upon defeating the boss 3 of our four members, including myself, would receive an additional poison vote.

So, I have 6. Mixed6 would have had 1, and Ranger has 1.

In addition, there are 13 town right now, and 4 scum, among the *19* living slots in the game. One of the missing 3p is Patches, and the other resides in a Nightmare PT I won't be sharing any further information about.

In addition, I received messages from two individuals last night, both claiming to be millers.

This makes me certain that we have a godfather at least among the scum, given that it seems impossible that we only have 2 or 3 scum remaining.

-Cerb

pedit: house, they can be changed. A50 had the same confusion at the start of the game, but yeah. Huntmaster votes are totally changeable.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, and fugue.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Liger, did you send me a message last night?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Last night there were two negative effects to the dungeon.

At the first portion, we were required to take 5 poison votes, divided however we chose, among the members of the party. I chose to take them all because it would put me at L-4, and I was confident in it being unlikely that I would be a preferred lynch for today, while Mixed6 I expected to come under fire for the hammer yesterday, and KC/Ranger for their relative lack of involvement in the game.

Basically, I didn't see there being an "excuse" someone could use to get away with attempting to quicklynch our slot, so felt it was safest if we took all the votes.

After we accomplished that portion of the dungeon, we were informed that upon defeating the boss 3 of our four members, including myself, would receive an additional poison vote.

So, I have 6. Mixed6 would have had 1, and Ranger has 1.

In addition, there are 13 town right now, and 4 scum, among the *19* living slots in the game. One of the missing 3p is Patches, and the other resides in a Nightmare PT I won't be sharing any further information about.

In addition, I received messages from two individuals last night, both claiming to be millers.

This makes me certain that we have a godfather at least among the scum, given that it seems impossible that we only have 2 or 3 scum remaining.

-Cerb

pedit: house, they can be changed. A50 had the same confusion at the start of the game, but yeah. Huntmaster votes are totally changeable.

I have to adjust this.

There are 12 town alive right now, 4 scum, among *18* living slots. There was moderator error in the count, which has since been accounted for.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

To everyone: I will be busy with DnD for the next few hours. Please don't do anything crazy while I'm gone.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, and fugue.

-Cerb

What's fugue?

Confirmation that the message I sent last night came from me.

I don't care about you being on the wagon. I care about certain people being on the wagon, and about us not rushing this lynch(because as of right now, Arrow could be hammered by a single additonal vote).

-Cerb

Yes, because ABR is a fucking fool.

-Cerb

What made you town read arrow?

I didn't town read arrow. I was upset because there were people who needed to be on that lynch, towny slots, who should have echoes today who do not because of the rushed lynch. Including myself.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Since I'm asking you to share what you know, it's only fair that I also share something.

Zulfy is not the host of the nightmare pt he's in.

Mhm.

One of the missing 3p is Patches,

and the other resides in a Nightmare PT I won't be sharing any further information about.

In addition, I received messages from two individuals last night, both claiming to be millers.

This makes me certain that we have a godfather at least among the scum, given that it seems impossible that we only have 2 or 3 scum remaining.

-Cerb

The bolded is referring to an individual in the pt you're talking about, who is likely a proxy for the real host, yes? Are we on the same page here?

-Cerb

pedit: house, they can be changed. A50 had the same confusion at the start of the game, but yeah. Huntmaster votes are totally changeable.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, no, it's not mine. I'm just privy to a bunch of information from a number of sources. Mainly wondering if you came to the conclusion you did because of the presence of the bolded individual from my last post, or because you have an independent source of that information regarding zulfys pt.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Actually, House, there'd a decent degree of towniness to be had from sending a message giving someone widely townread and with the ability to push a lot of votes on you an additional reason to come after you.

In addition, there's no real reason I can think of for scum to utilize this resource to send what amounts to nothing more than a taunt.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

No, it's practically conftown. Try again.

And maybe answer my question while you're at it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Actually, House, there'd a decent degree of towniness to be had from sending a message giving someone widely townread and with the ability to push a lot of votes on you an additional reason to come after you.

In addition, there's no real reason I can think of for scum to utilize this resource to send what amounts to nothing more than a taunt.

-Cerb

If that's what he did.

Also, it's easy to criticize a town lynch after the fact.

The only bad thing about yesterday's lynch was the amount of non-player votes on it, but that hardly warrants a flood of threats and insults.

Couldn't I have done it and still been scum?
I don't get.....what does me sending an angry message to a player indicate anything? It can be fake anger, it can be real anger.
Why would i lie about my message?

I feel like using the message in that fashion is bad enough that scum is unlikely to do so, but it's not impossible for you to be scum and have done so. It depends on the sophistication of your scum play, and I simply don't know you well enough to make a judgement there.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@RI You saying Ranger is conf town? How?

Practically. Behaviors I don't see them exhibiting as scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

She said a notable amount more in the hunting party. And, again, exhibited behavior she wouldn't exhibit as scum. I didn't say she's playing her best town game. I said she has done something she wouldn't do as scum. Therefore she's town.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

That's okay liger. That just means you'll never be on any of the lynches that are actually going to happen in this game.

Anyways.

H&M. Come out and play. And others too. :p I feel like with such a long night, people should be more excited to play.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Toogeloo, all I do is play complex games. Normal games bore the fuck out of me.
I'm well aware of the possible risks and am actually keeping track of resources gained and spent via public methods for every slot.

Anyways, it doesn't matter what PT the behavior occurred in. Like, not in the least. It only informed my own opinion of the slot, and others are welcome to fight me about those slots. They'll lose those fights, but there's no reason why they can't try and attempt to capitalize on the lack of public reasons I can point to in my defense of my townreads.

And note, I have repeatedly stated that my reads don't come from people doing "town-motivated" things. They come from them doing things WITHOUT scum motivation. There's a difference.

[Reasonably Irrational]

I feel like I've lost my way in this game though. I have a nice pile of probtown, but not enough scumspects. This is par for the course for me but I do feel a bit behind where I would normally be at this point (probably because I have/had other pts and a buncha messages and secret information and stuff to keep track of on top of the normal mechanical nonsense).

I'll try to set aside some time this week to take some in depth looks at a number of slots in the game.

-Cerb (previous post was me too)

[Reasonably Irrational]

IR, save me

Yeah this is Elbirn and don't kill zulfy pls he isn't scum I don't think

Thanks and <3's

[Reasonably Irrational]

I forgot I quoted that actually

It's irrelevant but is cute

Actually zulfy why do you call to us?

[Reasonably Irrational]

All you people should really really really unvote. Not because I'm certain he's town, but because it's VERY easy for someone to hammer at thus point, and just throwing votes around like this is dumb in this situation.

And Varsoon should give us a VC!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Anyone who quickhammers at this point is going to be lynched for it so it probably isn't a concern.

It absolutely is a concern. I refuse to lose out on the bulk of TWO day phases because people are stupid.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I wanted to confirm something:

Shadow_step is indeed in Bogre's Nightmare, and he is the only member of the nightmare. It does allow him to cast his vote in there and change his vote in the game, but there's not anything else of note in it.

Also, thank you to the two of you who unvoted and brought us back from the brink a bit.

A note about Liger as well: A decent portion of the strength of my belief in town!Liger comes from the simple fact that there was no reason to send a message to someone he was going to kill. It's...such an incredible longshot, because he has no reason to assume Mixed6 would be able to communicate that fact after death, other than through his messages, and his message would surely not be a significant enough point to comment on in such a message.

It just doesn't make sense, it's like...such a complete waste.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

A note about Liger as well: A decent portion of the strength of my belief in town!Liger comes from the simple fact that there was no reason to send a message to someone he was going to kill. It's...such an incredible longshot, because he has no reason to assume Mixed6 would be able to communicate that fact after death, other than through his messages, and his message would surely not be a significant enough point to comment on in such a message.

Why not? If he's scum, his kill target (who can still communicate after death) is as good a message recipient as anyone else.

I disagree with this conclusion.

Yes, but his kill target wouldn't be able to communicate anything until *the next night*.

After a lot of stuff had happened during the day, presumably. It's absurd to think that scum him would send this message to manipulate a dead slot into mentioning it to get the entire town reading him, when there's no reason to suspect he would have actually mentioned it.

Now, the proper counterargument is: He brought up the message and said what it was, but he only did so at SOMEONE ELSES prompting. He didn't just volunteer the information to get the conversation going on that direction to ensure it was a topic that Mixed6 would weigh in on.

Unless whoever it was who brought it up is scum with him, it doesn't make sense.

If they're scum together, then yes, there may be scum motivation in sending that message. Otherwise, i just don't see it, it relies on too many uncontrollable elements and is a waste nearly every time.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Eh, you can all disagree with me, I'm still right.

Ranger: it's not what you referred to. And it's okay if you don't understand it, it makes sense to me.


Also, Mixed6's position on Liger was that lynching him yesterday would have wholly been a compromise, made bmfor your sake, Ranger. He had a null towinsh read, but was willing to compromise(I assume because he trusted his judgment if your alignment, and your own judgment).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Hey, shadow_step, if you have anything you'd like to share, you could use Bogres PT to do so, possibly, depending on how likely you feel it is that scum can still somehow read it even though you're the only person in there.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm gonna preemptively sign this post here as Elbirn

Who do you want to lynch today RI?
I can't really say I have any strong scum reads.
Just some strong town reads.
Don't mind lynching between Peregrine/Hastur/House

I haven't gotten to speak to cerb in a little bit (mostly my fault tbh)(I did send him a long message that he didn't respond to tho, maybe he doesn't love me anymore ;_;), but when we did speak we seemed to be on the same page about wanting one of two different players dead today.

I don't feel comfortable outing who those two are at this time because we want to dig a little deeper into them, and letting them know they're under the microscope wouldn't be smart I don't think.

(Translation I'm timid because I have a hydra partner to consider and can't just be balls out obnoxious)

I will say that I'm still against zulfy and liger wagons, and I am incredibly dismayed that everyone dismissed our analysis of ligers message by mentally stuffing their heads up their own assholes and blowing into their lower intestines hard enough to spew shit out of their mouth.

Sorry to be a dick but Liger is not scum. No way. And I don't want to like lord over you guys that me and cerb are smarty smart smarts, but yeah, we are two smart gaiz. And We independently came to the same analysis, the same logical conclusion of what ligers message means, and every single person yelled "hurr wifom" instead of being willing to consider our viewpoints or to make their own logical deduction; and I'm just like >:(

Pls stop the liger wagon it's not good and me and cerb will yell about it forever

I would also like to know why Elbirn head of RI is town reading that slot.

Oh you know everything I just said about being smart and using application of logic to draw rational conclusions and allathat?

*grabs shadow by his head*
*pulls close, stares deeply into his gaze, the mad look in my expression reflected in the fearful look in his eyes*
*whispers softly*

Gut.







But hey if anyone wants to give me a reason for zulfy being scum I'm willing to listen and consider, but my mother's intuition says to leave zulfy alone.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Yeah.

SF had a 1x deathproof scum. So..that's not very useful. How is your hood the "towniest" in the game? Because of the mechanical benefits it offers? The beasthood/scum parts are potentially town, because it might help town distinguish between scum who can't gain insight from a scum lynch, and a beasthood player. The insight 3+ thing is very useful for scum though.

I wouldn't object to a vig shooting Toogeloo, for the record, just so the wifom of him publicly claiming his slay proof for no fucking reason is removed. I don't expect him to die, but I do expect him to no longer have a convenient explanation for why he's still alive at some late point in the game.

Random: Can you try to check in on this thread somewhat frequently? ^^ Don't necessarily need to say anything if you don't have anything to say, just...keep abreast of developing events.

Also, I apologize everyone. I've been doing most of my playing in PT's and not out here, and that REALLY doesn't help anyone, because it's only good for organizing stuff and sharing secrets, and you don't wnat to do either of those things with scum...so it's bad for scum hunting.

Gonna try to work on that fairly soon, but I've been mafiaing for a bit today, so maybe not immediately.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

what sort of meta do people have on klingoncelt for her scumgame? it's been pointed out to me that there's some scum-optimal moves she coulda made that she didn't. her towngame to me is very "live in the moment" but I've never played with her as scum.

Yes. She is EXTREMELY strategic. She plans shit out in depth. Her play in thread always remains the same, but in the scum PT's and such she's very much a planner.

This is anecdotal though, by way of Drixx when we were last hydraing and trying to figure her alignment out, but he tends to be right about these things, and he actually bothers to read games he isn't part of to get a better handle on people.

She could have been on the D1 lynch, AND been the person who sent in the night kill (thus gaining the benefits of that kill, in terms of echoes), and been the huntmaster. And put her teammates in the party, basically allowing them to absolutely dominate the lynches going forward by buying all the weapons.

She doesn't always catch everything though, she did miss a guaranted win on saga frontier (but town missed *two* guaranteed wins in that game, so that speaks more to the ridiculous things possible in that game than to her misplaying mechanically).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Untrue House. It's relevant because without knowledge of the existence of that other, people will arrive at flawed conclusions, such as believing that the next person to be invited must be the owner, when in reality the owner MUST be among those who are currently members.

Not that lying about their ownership is alignment indicative in any way.

Klingoncelt, give us the context of the "proof" that any given party already in there isn't the owner please.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

PeregrineV: When should we expect something worthwhile and meaningful from you?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

House, why did you attempt to buy the beast howl and then change your mind?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Really? Someone said the moderator had confirmed some things in there. What has been said by Varsoon in thsre?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Also, can I get everyone's top 5 townreads? I've had a thought.

Dwlee/Randomidget/A50/KC/Nahdia.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, and I don't know if I said this in here, or just in other PTs, but Mixed6 should not have been able to be killed by normal means last night, so we know scum have a method of bypassing or otherwise removing protections, or a way to "slay" someone without it counting as a regular killing action .

H&M: any thoughts on anything?

Ranger: Same to you. I understand your stated intentions to lay low given your roles growing significance over time, but there's little reason for you to be so insignificant in conversation. You must have well reasoned thoughts, share some of them.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Hmm. What prompted Varsoon to make that statement?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Hmm. So that's meaninfless, it's the answer Varsoon would have had to give to any member who asked that question, in public or else he would be confirming a role claim.

Right?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

...

And now we get the paranoid "omg I'm afraid of being left off the wagon and I don't have any reason to not vote" votes.

....

And this is why I told people to *not* vote for shit.

Like you see what's happening here? There's some actual potential for engagement here, but of course we just start piling the votes on at the same time so we don't fucking end up talking at all. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

VOTE: Zulfy

L-1.

I recommend claiming and trying to salvage your slot somehow, because there no reason for anyone to want you alive that they can articulate.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

(For the record, I will gladly unvote if we can get everyone who just voted to unvote with me)

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Purchase Item: Molotov Cocktail

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Of course you do, considering what it does, you inviting yourself first makes perfect sense.

I'm inclined to believe that, mechanically, your role exists to prevent a complete steamroll via vote powers by scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

...?

That's an interesting decision. Why would you do that Zulfy?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Also, Zulfy, ever since you were at L-4 Nahdia could have lynched you by herself. Why were you asking?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Pretty sure Zulfys wagon is apathy/boredom/greed induced.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I don't think it works that way Zulfy. If the votes already been cast, I'm pretty sure you can't remove the vote. And I don't know if it would stop her action from working, because that's not a normal vote she's casting when she uses it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

He did it to prevent you from using a multivoting function of some sort to lynch him. Is that alignment indicative? Not really. *shrug*

I'm personally of the opinion that Toogeloo, myself, and Nahdia(that is, those of us who just voted and brought us to this dangerous situation) should all unvote and make a pact to not do something stupid like this again.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Zulfy, play the fucking game man. :-/ Unless you're scum. If you're scum, you should probably self hammer to prevent risking a town slot from getting the insight from lynching you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

No no, I actually feel it's pretty freaking alignment indicative if he thought he was removing my vote. Which he seems to have believed.

Survivalism is NAI.

If he believe he's going to be lynched anyways, and feels you're scum(or the person most likely to lynch him), then it makes sense for him to do this as town.

Of course, there's like...a bunch of other people in this game who could all hammer you with double votes and stuff man. Shutting down Nahdia doesn't make sense unless you specifically believe she is scum.

Do you?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

...

Nahdia is not a person who would do that.

You clearly don't know her.

*shrug*

There are people who are *not* on the wagon who would probably be better if you're trying to keep someone who is scum from hammering you. That's probably best.

Anyways, so, nightmare. Anything else to claim? Any reason why people shouldn't lynch you, because...well...you're wasting a slot in the game man. You're a mislynch waiting to happen, nobody is ever going to shoot you, like...I honestly don't have any reason to want you to stay alive, other than my spec leads me to believe you're more likely to be town than not, but that's the most minimal of things.

Hell, what do your nightmare events do? Is there anything going on there that we should know about? Why did you choose the people you chose to join your nightmare?

Who....is....scum?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

All the nightmares have unique shiz I'm assuming? I'm asking you to tell us what utility there is in keeping you alive.

-Cerb

pedit: oh. I thought you said you had the nightmare thing. What were you talking about when you said that?

[Reasonably Irrational]

lol.

*sigh*

As I said. I'm willing to unvote if we can get a consensus and bring things back from the brink, as in, some en masse unvoting. Otherwise, I'm going to ensure scum can't hop on and take this spot.

Dwlee as...scum, you're saying? Along with House/Ranger? You said IDK, so, how strong is that belief? Do you have any reasons for it? What are your thoughts on the other members of the nightmare with you? Why did you out them all?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Sensei, please invite PeregrineV and/or H&Mo your nightmare, so you can shoot him for us. Thanks! <3

No offense guys, but assuming you're both town, you seem like another mislynch we're going to inevitably have to deal with.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Varsoon:

How do you determine who is invited to a Nightmare PT in the event someone is invited to two of them in the same phase?
Can Nightmare PT hosts invite dead players?
If no, does this mean the Nightmare of Mensis may never exceed 4 players total, given that Sensei will never be able to be invited to it?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Purchase Item: Kos Parasite

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Also, let's not rush today please. Like, no voting for awhile until we actually discuss things would be really friggin nice.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Whoever invited A50 to their nightmare(or whoever has A50 in their nightmare now, I don't care if your the owner, please communicate his answer to the following question(and I would like some corroboration from someone else in that nightmare, given that we now which nightmares everyone is in at this point. (or at least I do, I'm not positive it's all totally public information. Hmm.)

Did you kill D&D last night A50?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

The party crushed all who dared to face them, after dealing with some fairly substantial trials honestly. The votes you see on us here are, well...not at all representative of what we actually had to deal with.

That's all I'll say about that.

So, insight effect stuff.

15 alive in the game.
14 alive in the game thread.
9 town
3 scum

Which doesn't add up, btw, because yesterday we had *1* extra non town or scum slot, and today we have 2. :-/

Also yesterday it was 17 alive in game thread
12 town
4 scum.

So, we lost 2 who investigate as town, and 1 who investigates as scum.

So I would expect 14 alive in thread.
10 town
3 scum

So yeah. I'm not sure what's going on there. Gonna ask Varsoon to confirm those numbers. We almost certainly have 4 scum left alive in the game right now btw. The real question I have is whether we have a miller+ a godfather, or if the one miller claim I know about(who happens to investigate as the alignment of the prior days lynch if they helped slay them) is actually the scum godfather. The rest of their claim makes me think no, they're actually town...but it makes me wonder.

Oh, and pulchritudinous. I forgot about that.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

The real question I have is whether we have a miller+ a godfather, or if the one miller claim I know about(who happens to investigate as the alignment of the prior days lynch if they helped slay them) is actually the scum godfather.

Scum godfather has no reason to fakeclaim Miller that mimics alignment of the lynch, because they'd be outed as a liar if they were investigated after not being on the wagon and returning a town result.

I don't see godfather throwing away their free pass on investigatives just to be caught out in an unnecessary lie.

The real question I have is whether we have a miller+ a godfather, or if the one miller claim I know about(who happens to investigate as the alignment of the prior days lynch if they helped slay them) is actually the scum godfather.

Scum godfather has no reason to fakeclaim Miller that mimics alignment of the lynch, because they'd be outed as a liar if they were investigated after not being on the wagon and returning a town result.

I don't see godfather throwing away their free pass on investigatives just to be caught out in an unnecessary lie.

unless their godfather is conditional in the exact same
way the miller is conditional..?

Yeah, what Nahdia said. There is no reason why the scum godfather couldn't simply be conditional. They wouldn't get caught out by the claim itself.

Here's my problem: The simplest way to explain the current breakdown of town v scum is for the miller claim I have left alive to be scum. The more complex way is they exist AND there's a scum godfather. :-/ I'm torn yo.

I think there are other things to prioritize in our discussions though. I really need the answer from A50 before any more speculative talk about setup can really happen.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Purchase Item: Kirkhammer

Vote: House

Please unvote. :/ I really don't want ANYTHING like what happened the lat couple days. Maybe a pact to place no votes for at least 72 hours?

I really need the answer from A50 before any more speculative talk about setup can really happen.

A50 is dead though, can he still talk in a PT with you or something? My PT doesn't allow the dead to talk. Otherwise, you'd be waiting until him to send you a message I would guess. If you can communicate with A50 outside the thread, why ask in this thread?

He was supposed to be invited to a nightmare PT I'm in. He did not show. That means someone else invited him to their Nightmare PT, which means someone else can tall to him right now.

-Cerb

Pedit: As I said yesterday, I know of two miller claims. D&D was one. The one that may sometimes show as town was the other.

A conditional godfather would investigate as scum unless some condition was met, in which case they'd show as town.

[Reasonably Irrational]

How about you use your words to push people Toogeloo? How about you engage with people and challenge them on their beliefs about yor strong scum reads, instead of voting them when we both have seen what has happened. The lynches have happened because people are afraid of being locked out and don't have any reason to townread the lynched, no other reason.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

...

You didn't address my question/suggestion directly.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Spoiler: Mostly valueless rambling that I refuse to delete because I laboriously typed it while mobile

Regarding yesterday's lynch....I would have immediately unvoted had you come in and said sure, I agree, rather than insisting on keeping things in a state that stifled conversation.

I voted to be on the wagon because I knew what had to be done to maximize my utility for town, and having said utility delayed one day already, I refused to risk it being delayed again.

There's decent analysis of players and play(though nothing spectacular) happening outsideof the main thread in my experience, but not a lot of it is being discussed in thread. People are just acting according to the suspicions they've expressed.

I'm quite deliberately not publicly stating my top scum suspects. I want wagon composition to have as little chance of including scum as possible, so I'm working in my pts to organize people and gauge their reads on various people to determine who the best lynches are, hopefully outside of scum view so they can't anticipate who we actually intend to lynch. I'm actually also leaning fairly heavily on sheeping Mixed6's expressed reads in the nightmare, though I am standing firm on one of my townreads.

Talking about the game and discussing your best pt invite prospect should be one and the same. You should be inviting the towniest players in the game, which should necessitate actual discussion about why those players are the towniest.

Also, I don't really give orders. I make suggestions. I'm at a point in the game where I'm pretty sure I could nearly arrange a double lynch without any input from anyone outside of my townreads/those I can speak with privately. If I were giving orders, we would just do that. I honestly just want people to engage in the main thread, but I know this games mechanics absolutely ruin the idea of voting someone for pressure, because that pressure tips over into a lynch extremely easily...far too easily for there to be any actual scum hunting value if you actually place the votes you have in mind, rather than making cases against people and interacting with others about them.

Anyways that was all empty words, basically, not really sure why I bothered saying it. Gonna spoil it, actually. None of it really advances the game state.

There is nobody in the game who has actually behaved in a scummy fashion. That's the problem. People have barely behaved at all. I have a list of people who won't be lynched , period, and a notably longer list of people who have played so terribly and in such an uninvested fashion that I simply don't care if they go. I think the optimal thing to do today is to double lynch, and remove one of H&M/PV, along with someone who's actually talking but has given me no real reason to think they're town.I'm just not sure which of the mostly worthless content slots should be removed along with H&M/PV.

Regarding being huntmaster: I don't actually believe there is a better choice, but I could be wrong, and I have concerns about consolidation of town power. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, and I've been sharing the information I feel can/should be shared with the town. Heuristic_arrow sent me a message night before last which I completely forgot to pass on, so I'll go reread it and figure out what part of it exactly they wanted me to share (it was a lengthy thread analysis and notes much like they had been posting in thread).

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I've confirmed the insight numbers were off. There are 10 town, 3 scum, 14 alive in thread, and 15 alive total.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I can confirm everything House is saying(at least insofar as that is his claim, and that he claimed to me in the past(though I not sure why he chose to full claim now, because he has essentially removed ALL utility from his role) and he is the slot I'm concerned about for mechanical reasons. We're basically one scum short of where I'd expect our insight results to be right now, and thus there were either two millers and a godfather in this game (which isn't impossible, especially given the ability of multiple slots to become a investigative of sorts), or just one miller and a godfather variant.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

He only scans as town if he is on a town lynch...
Ok.

What does that mean? Do you believe that is evidence he's scum, mechanically, or does the effect just not make sense to you, or what?

He only scans as town if he is on a town lynch...
Ok.

Yeah that sounds super weird.

What about the rest of his play?

I'd really like more input on this whole miller sometimes thing. It's not IMPOSSIBLE that we have only 3 scum left, and thus Toogeloo must be town(unless there's yet another undeclared miller around), but it seems less likely than not....but Elbirn was talking about how steamrolled town *could* get if scum bought up all the weapons and just started quicklynching the crap out of town..but there are mechanisms in place to diminish the value of such a strategy I guess.

Something else people should probably know about, which I'm sharing at Mixed6's urging:

PeregrineV and Hastur & Muriel are both capable of giving out blood vials, which are one shot protective items. He finds it unlikely that they share an alignment(not completely certain on the logic of that particular conclusion, but it's what he said). In addition, there is a third party, as yet unknown, who also gives out blood vials.

Mainly sharing this information because we need to get some scum lynches, and hopefully people will be able to start putting some more pieces together in this game with more information.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Umm. Dwlee. wtf are you doing?

Please unvote. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Can you explain *why* Liger then at least??

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

What the fuck guys? I mean, at least I know how many votes that's going to cast unlike fucking Dwlee "I may have just put Liger at L-1" 99, but why? I don't even remember your last thing you had to say about Shinobi here, same with Dwlee99. :-/ Last I heard you were equally concerned about House and Shinobi, so why Shinobi?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

House, okay, so here's the problem we currently have with you:

You just fucking claimed.

There's an item called the Shaman Bone Blade/Exert Control.

When you get your vig shots, scum can now use you to get extra kills, because they KNOW you have the ability to use kills.

Why the fuck did you actually claim all that shit? NOBODY was talking shit about you being on the wagons, but you just threw all that information out there to "explain" why you felt you had to be on wagons. Nobody was fucking asking you that. Nobody cared. You just spewed out a bunch of stuff that basically makes your role actively negative utility for town.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Also, I just fucking realized that MORE THAN HALF THE GAME HAS LESS POSTS THAN THE MODERATOR.

...

No more than 4 of you are scum. The rest of you have no fucking excuse.

Nahdia; WTF DOES THAT EVEN MEAN EXPLAIN IT TO ME DON'T ANSWER ME IN SONG USE YOUR OWN WORDS!!!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia; WTF DOES THAT EVEN MEAN EXPLAIN IT TO ME DON'T ANSWER ME IN SONG USE YOUR OWN WORDS!!!

-Cerb

All I wanna do

*bang bang bang bang*

and a

*cash register noise*

and take ya money.

Don't worry Nahdia I grok it


Yeah dwlee liger is town don't do that man

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia; WTF DOES THAT EVEN MEAN EXPLAIN IT TO ME DON'T ANSWER ME IN SONG USE YOUR OWN WORDS!!!

-Cerb

All I wanna do

*bang bang bang bang*

and a

*cash register noise*

and take ya money.

...

This from the person who derided everyone in SD2 for hopping on wagons to get lynches?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I cast two votes -facepalm-
I cast beast claw votes individually m9, not like I even have near enough beasthood to vote that much.

Dwlee, you "Simultaneously cast votes equal to your beasthood"

So like, you cast as many votes as you have beasthood with each tag you use.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Transformed Beastclaw: Liger

Simba what the fuck did I *just* say?


-elb♡

[Reasonably Irrational]

Huntmaster Vote: Reasonably Irrational

Transformed Parasite: House

Molotov Cocktail: House

[Reasonably Irrational]

Well, that's either a lynch on liger or house I think.

Which is pretty unfortunate, actually. :/

*sigh*

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

House, it doesn't matter, you're being lynched tomorrow 100% of the time. So yeah, if you're town, massive throw there.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Unfortunately house in a game with these mechanics, anti town and irresponsible play can effortlessly lose town the game. You're a liability now.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

He may not be lynched, btw, it just depends on ligers role. If Varsoon was CERTAIN he was lynched, he would have locked the thread.

All he confirmed was that the prior votes plus the 4 you placed on him would put him at 8 votes. That doesn't mean he's lynched.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

So, why the attempt to make ranger huntmaster House?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I don't think it's possible you won't be lyched. The question is more, who else will be lynched along with you?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Lots.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Don't be mad at Varsoon, the mechanics are fine, it's the way people are using them that isn't. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, and this is me officially requesting a shortened night Varsoon. I don't really want to go 9 or 10 days with 6 hours of mafia in the middle. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

For the record, the votes Dwlee and Nahdia put out there were purely to provoke a response from the people in question. Well, Dwlee went and put his vote out there to provoke a response, and I said wtf man stop voting, and then figured fuck it, it's already done, Nahdia, go vote someone else, let's see how people react to the two potential wagons, but MAKE SURE YOU STICK AROUND TO UNVOTE SO NOBODY CAN LYNCH THEM!

And yeah. Then House decided to do a stupid thing.

I don't know why Dwlee was voting you originally.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'll be honest, I'm on the verge of replacing out over how stupid this game has become. This isn't mafia, this is something else all together. We get no reads whatsoever (again) from yet another wasted day phase.

Would House do this just to WIFOM us into thinking he's anti-town? Could be a scum gambit thinking we wouldn't possibly lynch such blatant anti-town behavior.

Could easily be.

Toogeloo, do members of your league automatically have the badge, or do they need to actually take an action to have that loved modifier?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

House, IF you're still alive tonight and are town, do not shoot. Scum can't redirect an action you do not take.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Liger should benefit from the Impurity Rune so long as he is in another PT with living members (not the League), so yeah, he'd need one more vote to lynch, but House might have also already covered that base with the Poison Knife, but who knows.

Again, though, House claimed he had already gotten a PM from Varsoon about this supposed "lynch," which suggests to me that there is no lynch yet or else Varsoon would have taken us to night.

Perfect. Liger is in a nightmare PT with someone, isn't he? That would mean that he takes an extra vote to lynch. Liger had 4 votes from Dwlee, 2 from the saw cleaver, then 1 from the molotov. Then in a later post, he had one poison vote placed on him, putting him at 8 total, when it should have taken 9 to lynch him. Assuming Liger wasn't a beast(which I don't actually know), then he wasn't lynched. If he was a beast, then he was lynched from the molotov.

That means House should be *very* lynched, and Liger isn't. Which is much better given his behavior imo.

I can understand Varsoon not ending things if he had to be up early(there's a lot of moving parts to this game), but yes, if he had cause to believe there were definitely a lynch, with absolutely no chance there wasn't a lynch, he would have at the least locked the thread.

I'm still unhappy with the way this all happened, but I'm far happier that the person who did the shitty thing will hopefully end up as the one who gets lynched.

-Cerb