kuribo in Wonderland - [Game Over]

[Axelrod]

Hey everybody.

dz post_id=7933091 time=1463778477 user_id=15399 post_num=11]
On another note, I am hoping to earn whatever town credit it may afford me by mentioning that everybody should claim a target and a cop result at the start of each day phase (regardless of your actual role).

I kind of like this idea. You get no town credit though

Looking forward to a good game.

[Axelrod]

So, sorry to be the fuddy-duddy/party pooper here, but could we express our desire for who should be executed in ways other than pissing on them or giving them Aids? That would be great.

OR MAYBE!
I had a thought.. we all state

WHO WE WILL EXECUTE

.. and lobby votes from there.
Like- Fate.. if we vote you in who will you kill?
Kats?
Then the votes have more meaning.
Like- a vote for Fate is a vote for Katsuki Dying.

This is a bad idea. You say it gives the votes more meaning, but I think it's less. You're basically just voting for who you want lynched. Whereas the other (regular) way you are on the record twice, first for who you vote for, and then for who you lobby they should execute.

Really, we ought to just be telling whoever it is who gets elected who we want executed like a regular lynch. That may not be as fun, but it makes a lot more sense.

Hi everyone! I like the idea of using "piss locusts on" to tell the king who to execute.

Camn's plan for kings running for playing death sounds like the best way to play this setup, but giving kings more will would certainly be more entertaining and in the spirit of the game; it seems like she's worried about not having any idea of who will die but transparency is trust and a good King will be trusted at least.

I prefer this method.

I for one promise to execute my biggest scumread or the nearest lurker. This is also probably why I haven't received any votes.

All you people should feel bad for thinking this is good.

I get that Kings can veto whoever the town might be demanding if they've got really strong personal feelings about it, but that's fine. They're on the record that way too.

[Axelrod]

And, I realize that the thread gets locked when the King gets elected, so I'm more talking about the "presumptive" king, and we should be a little careful about the votes.

[Axelrod]

You're basically just voting for who you want lynched. Whereas the other (regular) way you are on the record twice, first for who you vote for, and then for who you lobby they should execute.

Why would I ever want to elect someone that will lynch someone I don't want to die?

You elect someone you think is Town, yes? Then you hope they get it right. You are also, at the same time, lobbying for who you want them to execute.

I mean, that's how I'm looking at it. Not, I'm going to vote this person because he is saying he is specifically going to execute this other person.

[Axelrod]

You're basically just voting for who you want lynched. Whereas the other (regular) way you are on the record twice, first for who you vote for, and then for who you lobby they should execute.

Why would I ever want to elect someone that will lynch someone I don't want to die?

You elect someone you think is Town, yes? Then you hope they get it right. You are also, at the same time, lobbying for who you want them to execute.

I mean, that's how I'm looking at it. Not, I'm going to vote this person because he is saying he is specifically going to execute this other person.

Not necessarily. You might be fine with electing someone regardless of their alignment if they're crusading against someone you think is scum.

I'm not voting someone I think is scum because he's saying he's going to execute someone else I think is scum. That's more likely to make me re-evaluate my reads than anything else. I am not voting for someone I think is scum pretty much ever.

[Axelrod]

You know, I'm not saying just "vote for someone you like and hope for the best." You are still actively arguing for whoever it is that you want them to execute. But I am suggesting that if you're voting for someone you think is scum you are doing it wrong.

[Axelrod]

I think that hypoing the results is probably the way to go if that's how we want to do things. I'm not sure that's the way that we want to do things.

Come on Nacho, take a stand!

[Axelrod]

I wouldnt mind taking a drunkshot to be perfectly honest

Pls do not do this.

I've decided the entire trick to this set-up is that there's no more discussion after the King gets elected. And speedy electing Kings is just a recipe for disaster. We probably ought not be voting anyone anywhere close to Kingship for at least a couple days.

[Axelrod]

Here again.

Going to read straight through. See if anything is struck.

[Axelrod]

I have re-read.

The people I currently dislike the most are: Nacho; Zakk; Skybird; Implosion; Anti-Hero.

Nacho I really don't like for all his posting around the Godz/Anti-Hero dustup. I don't like how invested he seems to be in trying to convince Godz that Antihero is Town. I don't get his motivations, and it feels like he's really trying too hard. Anyone who wrote that dustup off as TvT so quickly raises a flag for me.
Zakk bothered me with his quick willingness to end the day and "Hammer" Katsuki, followed by putting Kat to L-1, I believe, which imo could have been a total disaster. Kat is frankly still way too close to King for comfort for me. Zakk has made a lot of empty posts.
Skybird is maybe a bit meta, but we were just scum together (Mafia musical, and both now dead) and she posted just like this. There's questions to people looking like she's trying to be involved, but really not.
Implosion, was another person who immediately wrote off Godz/Anti as TvT, and he kind of did the same thing as Nacho in arguing with Godz about why his read on Anti was wrong. I think his reads are also suspect. I have no idea how he gets a town read off what Brian Skies has posted so far. Ditto Zakk. And his scum read on Spiffeh seems bad.
Finally, I am totally on the Godz side of the Godz/AntiHero thing. I thought his stuff was much more reasonable than Anti's. Plus Anti has has a lot of what I would call useless posts, and his big reads post was pretty weak. He's also doing the self-pity thing now which I'm not a big fan of. Honestly the biggest thing that makes me think he still might be town are the two above people (Nacho, Implosion) leaping to his defense for underwhelming reasons.

I am also concerned about both our leading candidates for Kingship. Katsuki has done precisely jack this game. Fate has done not a whole lot more, but at least a tiny bit more. So I guess if you put a gun to my head and made me pick one I would pick Fate, but not be real happy about it. Fate has also ruled out Nacho which seems bad.

I do like Kuribo. I find myself agreeing with a lot of his stuff. I also like Camn. And I like Godz. I would vote any of them for King before the two we've currently got. I have some other super-secret town reads who shall remain nameless for the time being.

Please do something to show you deserve to be our king, Katsuki?

[Axelrod]

what self-pity thing did i do...?

well you were there for my meltdown at the newb in camn's apartment so i'm already wondering if you have me confused w/ someone else...

but i had different aspirations for this game, most of which i've given up now that i have fully realized that i signed up for a large theme w a toxic-ish playerlist

everything i touch

turns to shit

I'm starting to realize I can't read half of this playerlist

still ahead of me

These?

[Axelrod]

DGB is not "lurking" DGB is completely absent. Unless she is posting elsewhere on the site and just not here. If that's the case, then that's bad.

[Axelrod]

My heart and my brain stand united behind Kuribo king; would urge others to join me. I don't think Katsuki's head is in the game right now, I think Kuribo is having a good game and I think that Zen Kuribo will do great things on the throne. I understand that he said he wasn't willing to take on the kingship but I don't think that hurts his chances of doing great things.

Camn, Axelrod, Kagami?

What?

People voting me:

Is it because you're concerned that Katsuki and / or Fate aren't town?

Or you don't trust their judgement?

Or you don't trust them to rule with the will of the people?

Orrrrrrrr do you just not want to pick sides between them?


Orrrrrrrrrr.....?

I am concerned they might not be town.

They certainly haven't done anything to establish their townness yet. Katsuki in particular hasn't done anything at all except ask to be the King. I gather he's getting votes because people have respect for him in general. Which, fine, but I do not have that yet. And I have zero reason to trust their judgement.

With you, I at least have a read (not that I am voting you yet, but I would over either of them atm).

[Axelrod]

Incidentally, this is one of the parts of Godz vs. Antihero that I agree with Godz about

is zakk usually this cloyingly shitick-ish?

if you read my comments about zakk, you could probably glean from context that it's a meta-based read since i mentioned a previous game and mentioned that he put different levels of effort into being charismatic in both these games. i also have a couple reads in my back pocket that i'm holding off on even introducing to the threat yet (precisely because i can't articulate them and dont know if they're shit or not; this is why i said i have a "couple" ideas for shots).

if you asked me to elaborate on my zakk read, i could site specific posts (like Post 76 and Post 238) that pinged me. i wouldn't just say "welp, i just think he's scum." and i haven't done that.

Anti's asking about Zakk in the first post. Asking about his "meta." And then, in the second post, saying he's got a meta-based read on Zakk.

So, what's up with that? You know his meta or don't you?

[Axelrod]

3) meta's part of it, but i have a sample of size of 1 so i asked. even w/o meta, zakk ingratiating himself the way he is rubs me entirely the wrong way. it just stood out to me even more b/c i didn't see it before in his town game.

eh, this kind of feels like a retcon. You didn't say meta was just "part of it" at the time.

[Axelrod]

They certainly haven't done anything to establish their townness yet. Katsuki in particular hasn't done anything at all except ask to be the King. I gather he's getting votes because people have respect for him in general. Which, fine, but I do not have that yet. And I have zero reason to trust their judgement.

With you, I at least have a read (not that I am voting you yet, but I would over either of them atm).

I'll note that I'm a site-renowned VI. That should answer your earlier question with regards to what I've done thus far (nothing in particular aside from sitting here looking pretty).

Remind me what "VI" is.

This would also be a good time to state that while I'm never going to publicly state my shot target, whoever it ends up being should not be a surprise.

Then you are pretty much never getting my vote. Why does it need to be secret?

[Axelrod]

Thing is, Katsuki, if you're scum, you are going to pretty much

always

be able to justify a shot on a townie. There's always plenty of (incorrect) suspicions running around.

[Axelrod]

Really?

Why are we voting for a well known bad-at-mafia player?

I assumed it was out of respect for your awesome scum-hunting abilities or something.

[Axelrod]

Also, you didn't answer why you won't publicly state your shot? Seems like that gives you an awful lot of leeway to be wrong.

[Axelrod]

Also, you didn't answer why you won't publicly state your shot? Seems like that gives you an awful lot of leeway to be wrong.

I did answer. Why do you think it's imperative for me to state it now, at this particular moment in time?

You did answer what?

I'm not asking you to say who you would shoot right now. I am asking you why you said that you will "never" say who you will shoot ahead of time. Like as a policy.

This would also be a good time to state that while I'm never going to publicly state my shot target, whoever it ends up being should not be a surprise.

Did you answer that?

[Axelrod]

Hey Spiffeh.

Nacho what are you trying to accomplish with this conversation?

I think that Godz is town, and I think that Antihero is town. I think that the chances of Godz changing his mind on Antihero without someone who is actually trying to talk to him about his points is heavily unlikely. I think that changing his mind here is a productive thing to focus on because changing his mind on that read will make him a more electable King whether for now or in the future and because I think that he's an aggressive enough player where him focusing elsewhere would be good for town. I also think that Antihero can get annoyed with that sort of thing as town and feel that he's less likely to play well when someone's railing against him in the way that Godz is.

Wanting to make Godz a more electable king is complete bullshit and I see no reason for town to include this part. Saying you think they are both town would have been enough.

It's an overjustification and only really scum need to do that. He really wants to prove that this long winded questioning of Godz is fruitful when it's really just busy work.

Agreement.

Ok all done reading

Yeah my top kill targets would be Nacho and Anti in that order. Anti lower because I guess his blow up at Godz could feasibly be in retaliation to some of Godz's comments toward him.

Of the less active players, the only shots I would maybe support would be on Gaiden, KittyMo, and BRO

Of the less active players, I would absolutely despise executions of hiplop, Axelrod, Skyrbird, and ABR

VOTE: Fate

The only thing I'm really wondering is where the Skybird read is coming from. Are you sure you aren't being swayed by her sucking up to you? Because she really hasn't done much and I think her questions kind of stink.

[Axelrod]

I'm in favor of pseudo votes. I just didn't care for the form of "pissing on" or "giving AIDS to".

How about something nice and simple like,

DEATH TO: Nachomamma

[Axelrod]

Pre-selecting the kill choice seems like obviously the better way to do this. The idea of the King getting elected and then figuring it out seems awful. And as noted already, completely removes people's ability to claim. This is very different from other Kingmaker set-ups in that regard, yes? I would be willing to keep track of the pseudo-voting.

[Axelrod]

Listing who we want dead the most (currently) seems like just the prudent thing to do.

My understanding of the appeal of Gaiden is that he is offering to be a sock-puppet for the will of the majority (as opposed to the other contenders here who are not only not going to do that, but seem adamantly opposed to even the idea of it) That at least is theoretically as close as we can make this to just being a "regular" lynch - assuming Gaiden does what he's told - and obv,. if he didn't, he'd be on the block next. And at the same time Kagami is suggesting that in the event of some kind of super-saint role where the King gets killed back, Gaiden isn't a great loss. Am I grasping the idea?

[Axelrod]

Okay, I could possibly get behind a Spiffeh Kingship. I take it your current platform is: Death to Nacho? Who again were your other top choices for scum?

[Axelrod]

Pretty reasonable. I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other about KittyMo yet. I kind of liked the post where she said she had read strategy on another site about the best way to handle multiple cop claimers, but other than that, not much.

Vote: Spiffeh

I guess we're also waiting on a replacement for Anti.

[Axelrod]

Unvote

I'm not especially ready for the day to end yet, though I appreciate the King presumptive not being cagey about who his target would be.

@Nacho: If you won't claim, will you say why won't you claim?

[Axelrod]

I started to make a big long post about Nacho, and quit, because it was big and long and got very nit-picky. (What, bigger than this? Yes.)

I really don't like his interaction around the whole Godz/Anti-Hero conflict. The way he intervened on Anti-Hero's behalf and his efforts over

multiple

posts to convince Godz of the error of his ways just felt weird and off. And then, when asked to explain why he was doing it, he said he was strongly Townreading Godz and was concerned about making Godz a more electable King in the future. Which, again, is just a weird and strange thing to say. I also find it unusual (though I guess not impossible) for him to have developed this super-strong town read on Godz while Godz was making this (apparently) really bad and misguided attack on Anti. Usually you don't develop super-town reads on people who are making bad/misguided attacks.

He also has a decided lack of scumreads. In the readslist he posted, he had just two names: Skybird +Zakk, who are two of what I'd call the lowest hanging fruit in the game right now (not that I especially care for them either, but they're easy targets). And then, even the Skybird read was qualified and watered down in #983. He said he hadn't actually minded any of Skybird's posts, he apparently got this read because Skybird told Godz that she got a scumread off of him from something he posted, and he thought that was disingenuous.

It also feels like since he's been coming under suspicion he has dramatically reduced his posting. He was all over the thread the first 2 days - posting a lot, at least, though not doing a whole lot of what looks like scumhunting - and then, not so much.

I also don't like his saying he won't be claiming today, and he left without answering my question of "why" he won't claim if it looks like he's the target.

As it stands I'm very content with him getting shot today, and I don't see at all how other people are actively town-reading him. Neutral, maybe? No opinion? Okay. But Town-reading him? For what?

[Axelrod]

What if I said "unnatural," implosion, would that make a difference? Is posting "unnaturally" sufficient reason for suspicion?

Because you appear to be focusing on some specific words "weird" and "strange" in order to dismiss them while just ignoring the larger point. I think that's an actual rhetorical trick whose name I can't remember right now, but it's like not being able to see the forest from the trees.

"Weird" does explain why his posts are more likely to come from scum than town - because then they're not something he actually believes/feels, but are just things he's saying to push whatever agenda he's got going. And it's harder to do that and have it come out natural sounding. Also, often the logic doesn't hold up. And here, the strength of Nacho's convictions seems unjustified, and his stated objectives for making that prolonged defense of Anti don't make sense.

I also think it's slightly funny/ironic that you also strongly disagree with me saying that one usually doesn't strongly town-read someone who is making a bad attack and proceed to immediately scum read me after my "bad" attack.

[Axelrod]

Okay, well, at risk of being dismissed out of hand, you say you actually agree the posts were "weird", yes? So, what do you think Nacho was thinking there? Do you think his desire to make Godz a more electable King in the future makes sense as a reason for him to get involved in that fight?

[Axelrod]

Because it feels like you're just saying "that's not a good enough reason to scum read him" and dropping it. Without actually trying to suss out his motivations/alignment.

[Axelrod]

Okay, well, at risk of being dismissed out of hand, you say you actually agree the posts were "weird", yes? So, what do you think Nacho was thinking there? Do you think his desire to make Godz a more electable King in the future makes sense as a reason for him to get involved in that fight?

I explain this here (and, in fact, I actually call his behavior weird myself!)

All right, I read that. It kind of sounds like your saying he wouldn't post that bad as scum though, which isn't a great reason to town-read him.

[Axelrod]

Or to clarify, I believe:
1) that Nacho was interested in the discussion with Godz probably not 100% for trying-to-win-the-game reasons;

Can you explain what you mean by this? He was interested in the discussion for some other reason?

[Axelrod]

Implosion seems sincere in his belief that Nacho is Town (or maybe I should say, in his belief that the current arguments against Nacho are bad and that Nacho's behavior up to this point isn't scum-indicative).

So now I'm wondering if this sincere belief comes from his own inside knowledge that Nacho is Town. Because he's scum. Like that.

[Axelrod]

I gotta say Godz, I thought Anti was being more of the jeck in that exchange with you earlier, but you certainly seem to be trying to give him a run for his money with some of your recent stuff.

dz post_id=7944021 time=1464128869 user_id=15399 post_num=1167]

The way he intervened on Anti-Hero's behalf and his efforts over multiple posts to convince Godz of the error of his ways just felt weird and off.

Why?

This is going to be more of an answer than you probably want to hear. I actually went even more into this in the nit-picky post I didn't post, but, okay, it's like this:

If I'm Town, and I see a hostile exchange between two other players - and this was a pretty hostile exchange which escalated pretty quickly I think we can agree - and I also happen to think that both of the players involved in this hostile exchange are town - I don't do what Nacho did. Not the way he did it.

I might conceivably try and intervene. I might say something like "guys, guys, take it easy...." "This looks like a big misunderstanding to me....""Hey, (X), I think you're reading this wrong."; "(Y), I think you're over-reacting here...." etc. etc. I would

also

indicate that I was reading them both as Town, and I think that's rather important for people to understand where I'm coming from. This was not what Nacho did.

Nacho came in and talked exclusively to you. He told you your accusations were not fair. He agreed with Anti about (some post or other). He said he understood why Anti was getting so upset with what you were posting.

None of this went the other way as far as I could see. I did not see him trying to mediate with Anti. Telling him he was out of line or wrong about something he said about you. He was not trying to convince Anti that you were town. The whole thing was very one-sided, and for the life of me I would never have got the impression that he was town-reading you for it. Not the way he was posting. I would have rather got the other impression, except he wasn't exactly attacking you either. It was like he was just trying to shoot you down, and leave it at that. That is what I mean when I say his intervention was weird and off. I did not understand the purpose of it. I did not see the Townie motivation. I like to consider myself reasonably good at getting into other people's headspaces when trying to divine their motivations for posting, and I was not getting this.

Then he explained it and the explanation didn't seem to fit the behavior.

And then, when asked to explain why he was doing it, he said he was strongly Townreading Godz and was concerned about making Godz a more electable King in the future. Which, again, is just a weird and strange thing to say.

Why would he say that as scum if he didn't really think that's how he'd approach the game as town? i.e. He could have easily just said something like, "I think they're town and I want to stop in-fighting," or something along those lines and nobody would have batted an eye.

Ultimately, either it's something he's saying because he genuinely believes it's a good thing to do as town in this setup or it's something he's saying as scum because he genuinely believes it's a good thing to do as town in this setup.

I've never really understood this as a point against him.

Okay, the thing here is, obviously you make posts as scum that you *think* you would make if you were town. Everyone tries to do that. It's the name of the game. Some people are better at it than others. So the point of "why would he say that as scum" has never resonated very well with me. I think your suggestion here, of what he might have said, makes a lot more sense, yes. That might, indeed, have looked less suspicious. But he didn't say that. And you going, well, he

could

have said this other thing which wouldn't have sounded as suspicious, so the fact he didn't means he's less likely to be scum is just silliness to me.

I can easily see him (as scum) feeling like he was getting bogged down in that discussion with you, realizing that maybe he wasn't coming off so well, and looking for an exit strategy. And this whole thing where he (in my opinion) somewhat abruptly states that he's townreading both of you and thinks that changing your mind will make you a more electable king (again, it's very one-sided. He's not trying to make Anti more electable?) could just be something he came up with more or less on the fly.

Usually you don't develop super-town reads on people who are making bad/misguided attacks.

This... isn't at all true.

Yes it is?

I mean, I fully get that you can get a town read on someone who's making a terrible case, but I do not think that's the typical situation.

He also has a decided lack of scumreads.

I do not really find this concerning. Perhaps it would be in a regular setup (and even then, not so much), but this isn't exactly a regular setup. Do you think he's the sort of player who would have difficulty pretending to scum hunt as scum?

I also do not really have an issue with him qualifying his Skybird read and I don't really see why you do.

I don't know what sort of player he is. Is anyone that sort of player? i don't demand he have a fully formed comprehensive set of scum reads at all times, but if he's giving his reads and they're as weak as the ones he gave, I can take notice of that. I do think that scum are more likely to throw out a poor/lazy list of scum reads under pressure. Because they're afraid of giving something away.

It also feels like since he's been coming under suspicion he has dramatically reduced his posting.

I don't think this is game-specific.

I also don't like his saying he won't be claiming today, and he left without answering my question of "why" he won't claim if it looks like he's the target.

I am not sure what scum motivation you think there is here. Unless you're just suggesting that he's scum saying that because he thinks it benefits him in some way?

I think ducking out under pressure is also scummy. Maybe it's totally just a coincidence that he disappeared right after I asked him a question and hasn't been back since. Maybe he's got IRL issues. But I have no reason to give him that benefit of the doubt. I also note that since he's stopped posting, more than one person has come to his defense here, so, were I scum, I might very well decide that not posting was actually working out better for me.

[Axelrod]

I guess I'm not as impatient as you, Fate, and I really don't want to set a precedent of people getting killed without claiming either.

I realize Nacho said he wouldn't, but I've seen (town) people say that before and be persuaded to change their minds. I'd much rather have all the information before making a final decision.

[Axelrod]

dz post_id=7951513 time=1464359098 user_id=15399 post_num=1369]Does hypo-claiming results actually matter since the only ones left are random and the shit ones?

Insane Cop. The only one potentially left that matters.

dz post_id=7951527 time=1464359427 user_id=15399 post_num=1373]Right... Well, whatever. If I were a cop, I'd have a guilty on Pumbaa.

I spent last night thinking that I want SirCakez dead more than anyone in the game and that I was probably wrong about at least one of my town reads.

Well, you were wrong about Nacho...

If I was a power role, I would have targeted Zakk and got a Town result.

Mason King seems good

Vote: Kagami

[Axelrod]

There is probably something worth getting out of the Spiffeh/Fate wagons, given that Spiffeh was vocal about shooting Nacho. Some amount of scum might have been willing to bus/vote for Spiffeh, but I would imagine that if given an alternate choice - i.e. Fate wagon - more scum would have gone for that one.

[Axelrod]

My initial/immediate reaction is that Implosion was doing the same thing re: Godz/Anti-Hero that Nacho was. Which was to instantly declare it a TvT dust-up, which seemed to me like a non-intuitive response.

[Axelrod]

Nacho barely had interaction with Implosion. And certainly nothing that would disqualify them from being buddies from where I'm sitting.

Arguably, Implosion scum-buddy doesn't attack me so hard for going after Nacho when he knows I'm right and/or defend Nacho so much, but this too isn't outside the realm of possibility. His defense of Nacho wasn't actually strong. It was like "I know his posting was weird, and I get why people might be suspicious of him, but that's not scummy!"

[Axelrod]

Is [o] Implosion?

[Axelrod]

I did get a Town read on Fate for the way he played it in Twilight after getting elected.

[Axelrod]

I skimmed Kuribo. There wasn't a whole lot to take away as far as "this could be why the scum killed him". He gave a not-too-strong list of scumreads (ABR, KittyMo, Zakk, Gaiden, Nacho) and that was mostly it. I suspect his death was mainly a result of him being near-universally townread.

Of course there was this:

I love twilight btw

I was already town reading you Fate, but you've moved up further. I'm honored that you're the first King in a game where I'm the flavor lol

Godz I wasn't sure about you with the whole Antihero thing, but you've moved up further too and this twilight goodposting had helped me solidify a better town read on you.

Basically if either of you are somehow scum, shoot me tonight and spare me the indignity of looking stupid going forward lol

So, clearly one of Fate, Godz must be scum!

[Axelrod]

Incidentally,

Spiff is at L-1 to king FYI
Godz it's because of posts I've quoted earlier and then your continued posting has given me scum vibes, I feel like your pushes have been very nitpicky for example.
Top town/scum in a bit, I'm super tired.

There's over half the day left, how is it the very end of the day?

Fate was at L-2 earlier, that didn't mean the day was about to end....

It doesn't really, it just irked me that you basically said the day was about to end when it's not going to unless some dingus lolhammers.

Anyways
VOTE: Fate
Looks like Kuribo isn't happening

This is pretty bad.

Agreement

[Axelrod]

I am impressed/jealous at how Spiffeh can make such short posts but still get across exactly what he wants/means.

I am not so good at that.

[Axelrod]

There is nothing in Cakez ISO that gives me confidence he is Town.

[Axelrod]

Cakez who do you think is scum?

ABR, zakk, Godz and

Axel

Really?

You said that one thing early D1 where you thought something I was arguing about was dumb, and that was about it.

What else?

[Axelrod]

Is it confirmed that there is Daytalk?

It is confirmed by Kagami that the Masons have daytalk. So it seems likely that the Mafia would also.

[Axelrod]

Without re-reading, I'll just say that Nacho flip looks at least somewhat better for Anti-Ceph. Because I think Nacho's play makes more sense with him knowing that was a TvT argument, as opposed to hard-defending his scumbuddy.

[Axelrod]

What about meeeeeee?

[Axelrod]

dz post_id=7952586 time=1464381858 user_id=15399 post_num=1547]To be clear, sircakez, you're saying you still think I'm scum for those posts you quoted at the very beginning of the game and your read hasn't strengthened or decayed in any way based on the last 200 or so posts I've made?

For all the world it looks like his scum read on me came from my first 7 posts of the game.

[Axelrod]

Well, let's get to it then. No time like the present.

[Axelrod]

The Nacho scum flip also supports you being scum with how much he was supporting you.

Is that what happened?

Well, that is what happened in the sense that Nacho was saying he was town-reading Godz (while still arguing with him).

That is a very weak reason to conclude they are scum-buddies though.

[Axelrod]

How is Nacho townreading but arguing with Godz not scummy?

It was scummy for

Nacho

. It's not scummy for Godz.

[Axelrod]

Actually Axelrod isn't that town anymore either. Back on page 40-50 Spiffeh was two votes away from being hammered with I think camn and Axelrod agreeing Nacho was scum but not voting Spiffeh. I practically asked them to put their money where there mouth is and have the day end, but they didn't

Axel is scummier of the two.

Also that cheeky quote of kuribo and "guess fate or gods is scum" was out of character and real bad

Dude, I said exactly what I was waiting for.

I also don't think you know me well enough to say what's in character for me.

Too bad the thread got kind of toxic again. :/

Can't we all just get along?

[Axelrod]

I re-read the end of D1 to see if I could divine anything from how swiftly the Kingship went away from Spiffeh to Fate and then the hammer happening. I tracked how all the votes went on the theory that maybe there would have been a lot of scum support for the Fate wagon to try and save Nacho.

Unfortunately, I did not get much out of this exercise, mainly because I didn't like so many of the votes. I didn't like the votes from Cakes, Cephir, ABR, Camn, Katsuki. Brian Skies either. Practically all of them, and I know that most of these people are probably Town.

I do think that the Twilight posting of both Fate and Godz still looks pretty Townie. Although I don't like care much for Fate today.

[Axelrod]

I do not understand why people are voting for Fate when there is an actual

Mason

you can vote for. I mean, even if you are absolutely positive Fate is Town, which you probably shouldn't be, and even if you somehow think Fate's judgement is better than Kagami's, with the Mason you're not just getting Kagami are you. You've at least theoretically got multiple minds trying to make the best decision.

[Axelrod]

Kagami it does break a few things open. Like I said I'm really uncomfortable with Axel refusal to vote for Spiffeh and end Nacho's life. The people who DIDNT post during that time are also telling. Camn's isn't as bad because she had at least had a decent reason of wanting to hear more from DGB.

I think putting Spiffeh at L-1 would've been a completely safe move from Axel-town. Any quickhammer followed by a Nacho town flip tells us a lot, so his reluctance to vote where his mouth was shows his fear at Nachobuddy being hammered. I sure as hell would've hammered Spiffeh especially given my posts around that time, and I think the scumteam knew they could not go afford to put any more votes on Spiffeh at that time.

ABR's seems a lot more town to me given the nacho flip. His vote was pivotal in the formation of the Spiffeh wagon.

Refusal?

The fact you can look at that sequence and come away with this opinion just shows how questionable your judgment is. I was concerned for the whole of D1 about someone getting speedy-elected and having the day get cut off before we were finished. And the idea of shooting someone without even hearing their claim seemed terrible. Frankly we're still doing it wrong.

[Axelrod]

dz post_id=7956226 time=1464492235 user_id=15399 post_num=1824]Anyone voting for Kamagi because she's a mason is dumb. Find me a game where people follow confirmed town because they're confirmed town and I'll show you a game full of people who strayed from the Road to Rome far too soon.

You should be voting for Kamagi if, and only if, you think the person she's advocating shooting is scum. Same goes for anyone else.

Well, this is partly what I'm talking about. The actual best way to do this is to figure out who, as a Town, we want to die, and then elect someone. But we're not doing that, because the habit of voting is just too ingrained. So we end up electing someone without an actual consensus. At least if we elected a Mason this way it (theoretically) wouldn't just be that person shooting from their gut, or whatever.

[Axelrod]

Axelrod just isn't reading the game or is scum trying to get SirCakez lynch in a roundabout and nonaccountability way?

Like the obvious scum move here is to go "Oh yay conftown lets run her up and let her deal with thinsg!"

We're making it so people have OPTIONS for who to lynch for, its not so much "whose judgement do we trust" anymore.
I've at least proven that I follow through on the lynch options I stated I would [as much as I would like to hav eproven I would go rogue and lynch scum out of left field <_<]

Sadly I have to concede the point to Kagami that my original plan of make me Emperor and I'll do whatever doesn't really give much information for us to go off.

Now if you don't acknowledge THIS post Axelrod that pretty much cements to everyone else you're scum:
Voting for Kagami is for SirCakez and idk whoever the hell else Kagami thinks is scum
Voting for me is basically a vote for BRO

So if you want BRO dead vote for me. If you want Cakez dead/no responsibility just let claimed mason go for it vote Kagami


@SirCakez: Ok but who is scum then? I can't seem to recall you staying much of anything outside Godz scum

Ok, I am not advocating "let's elect the Mason and just let him deal with it". What don't you think I'm reading?

And I definitely want people on the record who they want lynched before the day ends. If Kagami was about to get Kinged too quickly I would unvote him too.

[Axelrod]

All right, things not looking too bad now. Also looking like Spiffeh should receive some kind of Hero award at the end of this game.

My initial response to Cakez scum-flip is that it looks better for Brian Skies, since B was one of Cakez super Townie reads, which turned out to be based almost all on "meta" and was never very well supported. I tend to think it's less likely a scum gives that kind of "town" reading to a fellow scum with such flimsy basis. Whereas scum give town reads of Town all the time with poor/weak reasoning because they "know" that those people are being honest and genuine.

If I was a power role I would have targeted [ KittyMo ] and got a result of [ Mafia ]

[Axelrod]

Cakez who do you think is scum?

ABR, zakk, Godz and Axel

There's gotta be scum in this list. Likely just one. Probably ABR or Axel.

So, I'm just curious, but how did you decide on this list, specifically to use for this argument?

Cakez gave a couple of list in his time, and this was neither the first nor the last one he made. Starting with #1091 where he lists [Godz, Zakk, and ABR] as "top" scum. Then going to this list, the one you quoted, in #1473.

Then he went back to the original "top three" in #1548 (saying I was not a "top" pick in #1553.

Then he finished with #1830, where he still had the same top three he had the entire game, and then listed me and Camn as "nullscum" reads.

So, why are you picking this list out of the middle?

[Axelrod]

Reason is that it was the first list I saw when I isoed him~

You missed #1091?

That was his "big" reads post that he had been promising for days. He gave Top scum and Top town reads.

[Axelrod]

So, my problem then is that you are supposedly doing this ISO for a reason, yes? To find *something* But then you also skim it so quickly you completely defeat the purpose?

Unless your entire purpose was just to skim for a Cakez readlist specifically so you could throw it up there and make that argument.

[Axelrod]

Not to try and cause paranoia here, but given the third Cop flip, I now think it very likely we have all 5 Cop types present in this game and likely also a scum GF to go with them.

[Axelrod]

Cakez who do you think is scum?

ABR, zakk, Godz and Axel

There's gotta be scum in this list. Likely just one. Probably ABR or Axel.

So, I'm just curious, but how did you decide on this list, specifically to use for this argument?

Cakez gave a couple of list in his time, and this was neither the first nor the last one he made. Starting with #1091 where he lists [Godz, Zakk, and ABR] as "top" scum. Then going to this list, the one you quoted, in #1473.

Then he went back to the original "top three" in #1548 (saying I was not a "top" pick in #1553.

Then he finished with #1830, where he still had the same top three he had the entire game, and then listed me and Camn as "nullscum" reads.

So, why are you picking this list out of the middle?

"So, I'm just curious, but how did you" even know this? Like I had a vaguely peripheral awareness that Cakez was pushing for me being shot, but how did you know he had different versions of the same list, and why do you point it out now?

i feel like

if

there's a member of those 4 that's scum, that it's you now.

You think it's scummy I was aware of how Cakez's reads developed (or didn't develop as the case may be?)

What, exactly do you find scummy about that? Like, you think I would have been paying

more

attention to that as his scumbuddy?

The fact is I pointed it out way back when when he first added me to his list for no reason. I asked him about it at the time (and he didn't answer me). Then he dropped me off his list and I asked him about that too. Then he finished by sort of putting me back, but calling it "nullscum" at the end of the day. Those were some of the reasons I didn't like him.

That's why I remembered it. And my point with Implosion is that it's strange that he supposedly went to do an "ISO" of Cakez, presumably because he was trying to re-read him, get some leads, something, and he pulled out just that particular list, which wasn't the first or the last one, and then proceeded to make an argument about how someone on

that

list must be scum because. You don't think that's notable? Even putting aside how he's now doing something that looks a lot like back-pedaling with the whole "oh I missed his first list, and I was just barely skimming anyway when I read it..."

[Axelrod]

Unfortunately, seems like a lot of people are fading.

[Axelrod]

My "check" list is quite long, but basically it's Implosion, Brosiden, Katsuki, Camn, Zakk and Cephir. I will probably be advocating for the shot going somewhere in here. I still tend to doubt Fate is scum, though I kind of hate how he's playing right now, and I basically feel the same about ABR.

My best Town read (not counting Kagami) is Godz and I will just be stunned if he's scum.

[Axelrod]

I don't think my actions have any impact on whether I win at this point! I guess I could try to decrease my chances of being mislynched by doing what I do best, but I don't feel like it.

In before this post is called scum giving up!

It does seem weird you're not a little happier about a game that appears to be going well. That would, in fact, be the scum response.

[Axelrod]

I mean, presumably the Masons are not going to live forever. Scum will have to kill them at some point. So, someone else is going to be King at some point. I don't get the fatalism from Town.

[Axelrod]

I think I have to retract my ABR stance also. Just looking at his posts there's absolutely nothing that would make me think he's Town, so reading him as Town just because of some weak interactions with Cakez seems poor. Don't think Nacho or DGB ever even mentioned him in any of their posts.

[Axelrod]

Here's a radical idea,

NO ONE VOTE FOR ANYONE JUST YET, OKAY

I seriously do not want a repeat of what happened yesterday. Brian Skies deserves to die just for that hammer. We need to figure out who we want dead, and THEN vote someone King. There is zero reason to be voting for anyone yet.

I have only skimmed this so far today. I am distressed that we have two deaths including our tracker after the vig is already dead. It is not clear to me if Cephir is lying or not yet either, I need to review. I am also thinking a Mass Claim might just be a good thing.

[Axelrod]

Spoiler: zombiepost

If I were a power role, I would have targeted [hiplop], and my result was [Mafia] or [nobody]

Hiplop targeted no one on N1. This is not particularly a surprise.

Spoiler: zombiepost

If I were a power role, I would have targeted [Cephrir], and my result was [Town] or [SXTLHGaiden]

Cephir targeted SXTLHGaiden.

oh, and if i'm a cop, i got a town result on axelrod

There are only 2 possible cops left, insane and naive. Cephir is Naive or scum (these are not mutually exclusive)

If I am a cop, I got a town result on DGB. Very informative, I know.

Lie.

I don't get how that proves anything at all?

Spoiler: zombie thing

If I am a power role, I did not do anything last night.

Unbelievable.

I'd like to point out before I claim that if I were scum I could say I was actually a doctor or something.

I am actually a cop. Most likely either I'm naive or Axelrod is scum. I did actually forget to act last night. I thought I had, but it's not in my sent box, so.

"Most likely." Yeah. So, on top of lie, we have this.

Cephir is scum or the worst townie ever and also the victim of some kind of unexplained ability that redirected her away from DGB to SXGaiden without her being aware that it had even happened? Exactly what kind of ability would that be? Someone said Bus Driver, but that's not how that works, is it? When you get redirected you know it's happened. You don't just get a result and are misled into believing that the result came from someone else.

[Axelrod]

I still want to know why you chose to hammer so early in the day, when Kamagi explicitly asked for a longer day, Brian.

I may have missed it or casually ignored it (she actually said she wanted to end the game in 4 game days, but eh) in lieu of my irritation of Kagami saying she wanted to discuss the game with her masons instead of the rest of us when she can supposedly talk to them whenever she wants to (and I'm assuming this includes the 24 hours she gets after she gets elected). I was also expecting to be the one executed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Anyhow, I'm not going to apologize for it and if you don't want the day to end, don't put someone to L-1.

YOU MADE ONE POST YESTERDAY. IT WAS THE HAMMER VOTE TO END THE DAY.

When exactly were you irritated with Kam saying she wanted to talk to the Masons? When did you indicate your derire to discuss anything? CLearly you did not have a desire to discuss anyhting since YOU FREAKING ENDED THE DAY WITHOUT SAYING ANYTHING.

I am having a hard time with this.

I don't find Camn's hypoclaim incriminating for Ceph since it's possible Camn was just lying about her results

. If there's anything that bothers me about Ceph's claim, it's that he claimed to have forgotten to check somebody, but I think if he were scum he'd just make up a result on the spot since he'd already know everyone's alignments. Also, I've seen people forget to submit their actions as either alignment. Either way, I don't think he's a good execution choice.

Implosion is still my execution of choice.

Also, I believe someone asked me earlier why I thought Camn was town. It's because FG indicated the possible presence of a tracker this game and I thought Camn was crumbing to be one (someone else has been doing the same thing, but I felt Camn was more likely based on her seemingly holding back this game). Or that's how my impression of her has been.

VOTE: Brian

Because I'm a vain vain cloud. And I really just don't care for the other choices.

How on Earth could you make that assumption? Why would you make that assumption? Why isn't your completely natural response "Hey, Cephir has totally been caught in a lie, how about that...." Instead of, hey, Camn could have totally been lying for zero possible reason and in fact with the whole zombie post idea, which Camn was a big proponent of, lying would be horrifically bad.

Basically nothing you are saying makes any sense at all.

[Axelrod]

I can understand why Camn would make an assumption that Cephir was town if Camn tracked Cephir to Gaiden and Gaiden did not die. That's not a great assumption to make in a game with so many targeting roles, but I can sort of see why.

[Axelrod]

ugh. Wait, so, Camn should have known that Cephir's claim yesterday did not match his result. Why would he still have called Cephir Town?

That doesn't make any sense either.

[Axelrod]

Man, we had a Tracker. What are the odds there is a Watcher - who TOTALLY should have been watching Kagami last night.

Probably way too much to hope.

[Axelrod]

Mafia having a 1-shot extra kill that they just sat on until N3 seems unlikely somehow. They are going to want to fire that off quickly to not lose it.

So what is this additional kill? Someone said PGO. If you are a PGO and you are town, you are supposed to claim that, right? Isn't it a potential complete disaster otherwise? If there's a scum PGO, then, man, that SUCKS.

What else could it be? A SK who hasn't killed anyone else yet?

I suppose if there is a Doctor in the house it could possibly explain missing kills.

All this is coming back around to Mass claim being possibly just the best way to proceed here.

[Axelrod]

Sooooooo
Cephrir is scum. and i even have proof too

I gotta say, Gaiden, you found this contradiction in the nine minutes between the time FG posted Camn was dead and a Tracker and this post?

That was fast.

[Axelrod]

Public Knowledge

There are only two factions:

Mafia

and

Town

.

Right, forgot this.

[Axelrod]

I'll repeat once again.
Massclaim.

I am ready for this.

[Axelrod]

Look I KNOW who shot Camn last night so there's a VERY GOOD REASON to not massclaim

ESPECIALLY with caught Cephir scum and Brian skies being sketch as fuck

How exactly does that follow? Oh wait, YOU killed Camn. Did I get it right? Did I? How else would you KNOW who killed Camn yet you're not just telling us so we can go and kill them?

The point is, if you think by not mass-claiming you are hiding something from the scum you are probably hiding less than you think. Now, if you were scum yourself, though, with likely only two left, I'm sure you could see how keeping everything dark could be the best way to go.

[Axelrod]

Anyway, I do feel like claiming for myself, because it

probably

does something good, at least for someone.

[Axelrod]

Ok I'll play one more game:

Axel why would we kill who killed camn when we know there's only two factions? The fuck are you talking about?

Well, if you KNOW that the person who killed Camn is Town, then sure. But that would not be my immediate assumption. Why would it be yours? (unless, you know, you killed him, etc. etc.) Town Vig is already dead. My immediate assumption would be some kind of scum ability. It;s not like Camn wasn't screaming he had relevant information at the end of the day yesterday. Why would anyone Town kill him?

[Axelrod]

Ok I'll play one more game:

Axel why would we kill who killed camn when we know there's only two factions? The fuck are you talking about?

Well, if you KNOW that the person who killed Camn is Town, then sure. But that would not be my immediate assumption. Why would it be yours? (unless, you know, you killed him, etc. etc.) Town Vig is already dead. My immediate assumption would be some kind of scum ability. It;s not like Camn wasn't screaming he had relevant information at the end of the day yesterday. Why would anyone Town kill him?

your imagination is limited by your scum perspective isn't it

If you want to claim something like PGO, Fate, then ******* claim it. Townie shoudl have claimed **** like that right off the bat, I would think.

[Axelrod]

I'm going through the player list and all the Zombie-posts. Maybe I can figure something out. I assume if I can figure it out then then scum can/have already figured it out and there's no point in keeping it secret.

[Axelrod]

Brian Skies: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

Broseiden: N1: Fate/Town N2: DGB/Town. N3: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

Cephir: N1: Axelrod/Town N2 DGB/Town. N3: FORGOT TO SUBMIT. Has claimed actual Cop

Fate: N1: ABR/Town N2: Cephir/Guilty. Not a Cop.

Godz: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

Hiplop: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

Implosion: N1: Camn/Town/Gaiden N2: Broseiden/Town/No one N3: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

Katsuki: N1: Nacho/Town N2: Broseiden/Town N3: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

KittyMo: N1: DGB/Mafia This means Kitty can neither be Naive nor Insane. Not a Cop.

Gaiden: N1: Kagami/Mafia Otherwise no Zombie posts. Not a Cop.

Zakk: Has claimed vanilla. And did not Zombie post. Not a Cop.

I am also not a Cop.

I think this is everything. And if this is right we have no Insane Cop. We have Cephir who might be a Naive Cop and also might be scum, and that's it for Cops.

[Axelrod]

This makes me claiming a lot less relevant.

[Axelrod]

Um I did zombie post just I forgot to do so in my first post.

I got town on BS.

If you are going to claim actual Cop it would be incredibly relevant right about now, as you might be able to see. So if you are, please do so.

Implosion: N1: Camn/Town/Gaiden N2: Broseiden/Town/No one N3: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

Katsuki: N1: Nacho/Town N2: Broseiden/Town N3: Did not Zombie Post. Not a Cop.

Why can't these two be cops?

I was making an assumption that any

actual

Cop would not miss their Zombie post, given they are the entire reason we were doing them. They would be (should be) hyper-aware about making sure their results got posted.

Also, the only other Cop (beside you) is the hypothetical Insane Cop. That Cop should have gotten a Guilty on Camn, so it can't be Implosion. Katsuki's results do not actually rule him out, although they mean that he has pegged the last two scum - Broseiden and Brian Skies - and that there is no scum GF.

[Axelrod]

Everyone be shocked that I would prefer to elect the Mason king over unknown player X.

[Axelrod]

It's kind of annoying that you keep discounting the possibility that I'm insane and you're scum. I know it's true from your POV but I'd like to be able to use your posts to track the flow of things.

There is no possibility of that, which is why I am discounting it.

Obviously

.

[Axelrod]

I will just be so pissed at Camn if he really lied in his freaking Zombie posts. I mean, seriously, what the Hell? Even if he "tracked" Cephir to DGB and not Gaiden that wouldn't freaking mean Cephir was Town. A hypothetical scum Cop could easily, and almost inevitably at some point would target one of their own.

[Axelrod]

I will just be so pissed at Camn if he really lied in his freaking Zombie posts. I mean, seriously, what the Hell? Even if he "tracked" Cephir to DGB and not Gaiden that wouldn't freaking mean Cephir was Town. A hypothetical scum Cop could easily, and almost inevitably at some point would target one of their own.

Are you really going to try and throw doubt on camn's results???

Am I? No. Other people are suggesting this, you may have noticed. I would like to discount it, except for the teeny problem that Camn himself kept declaring Cephir Town, when Camn himself - if you believe his results - should have known she was lying.

So, how are you explaining that?

[Axelrod]

Also, not a Cop, right? We don't just have all the scum identified already?

[Axelrod]

dz post_id=7982226 time=1465334231 user_id=15399 post_num=2386]Er... Technically Camn wouldn't have known whether Cephrir was lying. Once again, folks, just because someone claims a hypo target of X, doesn't mean they necessarily targeted X if they aren't a cop.

But that doesn't really matter and isn't really a factor in why Camn

*might*

have been lying (it's not a guaranteed thing by any means, but I don't really think Cephrir is scum right now).

Well, no, I think if Camn sees Cephir say "I targeted DGB" and Camn knows from his own ability that Cephir, in fact, targeted Gaiden, then Camn knows Cephir is lying. Given that he knows Cephir targeted someone, Cephir's Zombie-post should have indicated it.

[Axelrod]

What just happened

[Axelrod]

The last scum despite supposedly being behind, are probably having themselves a big chuckle right about now. Watching people run around like chickens with their heads cut off.

[Axelrod]

Unless that was Fate just conceding

[Axelrod]

I was trying to fuck with scum the same way Bro+Hiplop were with their masons claims

but no

no we an't have nice things because herpafuckingderp

Really

feel like just calling BS here

[Axelrod]

So, to be clear, you're the liar but everyone else is a clown.

Your internal logic doesn't even hold up either.

[Axelrod]

Like, if you believe a Townie killed Camn (because you somehow deduced there was a back-up vig., which also makes no sense) how is that even going to throw the scum into a tizzy? They know they didn't kill Camn under this scenario, so why the flip would they care if you came out and claimed you did? Clearly you wouldn't be implicating one of them.

Just doesn't hold up.

[Axelrod]

Anyway, Implosion, what exactly are you claiming?

[Axelrod]

Because, seriously, WTF, why would you kill Camn?

[Axelrod]

He was practically screaming he had information he wanted to claim at the end of the day yesterday.

[Axelrod]

What is the flavor that makes a back-up vig make sense this game?

Were you told that from the beginning?

[Axelrod]

Fate, I think you need to go to your room now and let the adults decide what happens next

[Axelrod]

Well, I'll totally claim if everyone is doing it. Is that what we are doing?

Katsuki
Gaiden
KittyMo
Godz
Broseiden
Axelrod

I think is everyone.

This does out the last Mason (not that there's a huge pool left to pick from) but I'm not sure how big a deal that is at this point.

[Axelrod]

dz post_id=7985572 time=1465421752 user_id=15399 post_num=2501]No. Axelrod should still claim his role, or at the very least why he was trying to find an insane cop and why he said his role is less important in the absence of one.

Well, first, I was just trying to see if the actual claims that had already been made already revealed if we had another possible Cop besides Cephir. Given that I know Cephir can only be Naive, this would make that last hypothetical Cop our Insane Cop and his reads would now be actionable. Depending on what the Zombie Posts showed though, there might have been a way to keep that hypothetical Cop hidden for a least one more night.

But now it appears there isn't an Insane Cop in the game at all so it's kind of irrelevant. It's not that my role is less important, it's just that my claiming is less important.

[Axelrod]

the identity of the last mason is extremely obvious

I agree?

But apparently not everyone thinks so.

[Axelrod]

Analyzing the zombie posts mostly leads to the conclusion that there is a naive cop who isn't me, but, sure

And then you say things like this which make me think you don't actually know what you are talking about.

[Axelrod]

K that's interesting.

Man, seems like we had this game completely in the bag until last night. How over would this game be if Godz and Implosion picked different people AND Camn was still around to give us another Track result?

I concur that the existence of a scum bulletproof GF is almost a certainty now. With 2 Cops and 2 Vigs? I'm not convinced it's Katsuki though.

[Axelrod]

Why did I think Godz did not Zombie post?

[Axelrod]

dz post_id=7951513 time=1464359098 user_id=15399 post_num=1369]Does hypo-claiming results actually matter since the only ones left are random and the shit ones?

Why say this?

[Axelrod]

Nevermind, I can see that.

[Axelrod]

Full mass claim time?

[Axelrod]

Well, regardless, Cephir can't be scum. If he's Naive Cop then by definition he can't be GF.

[Axelrod]

dz post_id=7986891 time=1465456471 user_id=15399 post_num=2558]

is immune to night kills

Given there's no evidence of blocking or protecting roles, this stipulation also makes virtually no sense if there's a Godfather given there's a vig and a back-up vig.

It's certainly

possible

that it's included entirely to mind-fuck the town, but that seems pointless except as bad moderating.

I may or may not bother to check other games FakeGod has run to see if he's ever included a line like that without it being relevant to the game, but I doubt I'll find anything.

You think there might not actually be a GF because (with no protective roles) a Vig shot failing = GF so he's just dead anyway?

[Axelrod]

If scum had a Re-director they would totally have been re-directing Spiffeh, not killing him. So I think that possibility is not a real possibility.

[Axelrod]

Fate
Katsuki

Cephrir Antihero

SXTLHGaiden atm487
KittyMo

hiplop

Brian Skies

implosion

G[o]dz

BROseidon

Axelrod

zakk

So seems like this is the possible pool now? Baring some kind of enormous gambit. With two more scum in that group of 7.

[Axelrod]

[o] dies with my townflip, there is no negotiation there.

He did the same exact shit Nacho did to me, and both are players who would do that as scum. It's why I scumread Nacho and why I was so weary of [o] (only difference between them is that [o] swore a devotion to cupcakes and was a lovely concubine).

Now he's trying to push for my mislynch deeper into the game (surprise).

KittyMo bothers me in that she's been largely absent.

BS I still think is likely scum.

Axelrod seems like derptown to me than anything else.

Warthog can be town because pumbaa

If Fate gets shot then this game has really descended into PANTSONHEAD

What really has happened is OH LOOK ABR/CAMN/FATE/KATS THERE JUST

MUST

BE SCUM IN THERE

You think Godz is a scum Insane Cop?

Or that he's just lying about the Cop thing period?

[Axelrod]

My gut is telling me that Broseiden's interaction with DGB says they are not scum together. They way he was accusing her of making it personal.

[Axelrod]

I've been giving BS the benefit of the doubt because of how Cakez was calling him obv-town and then justified it for weak meta reasons. Felt like it was much less likely Cakez would give that kind of read on a fellow scum. But now I'm not so sure anymore.

[Axelrod]

Gaiden really hasn't been a presence at all. He has precisely zero votes for anyone all game.

The only thing he did was (extremely quickly) figure out the contradiction in Camn's Zombie Posts and Cephir's. And I'm actually slightly suspicious of that. Just seems not in keeping with his play otherwise this game.

[Axelrod]

If scum had a Re-director they would totally have been re-directing Spiffeh, not killing him. So I think that possibility is not a real possibility.

why do you think scum knew who the vig was?

I still want Axelrod very much dead. If I'm allowed to take anyone down with me or use my townflip to barter for anyone's death (since Brian Skies is certainly already a marked man) its Axelrod

You poor poor man.

If

you're Town, you've just been so horribly, horribly wrong the entire game.

[Axelrod]

Feel like it's time to start compiling all the opinions here, given we have so many people who's opinions seem diametrically opposed.

[Axelrod]

I am his top scum read!

[Axelrod]

So, presumably, Implosion shot at the bulletproof GF? I guess he could have withheld also?

Hard to guess who he might have picked though. His last post was kind of agreeing to shoot in the pool of {Brian; Kittymo; Broseden} but I don't really feel like that's what he actually did.

I'm also paranoid now about 2 more scum, because this seems like a pretty low-power scum team if all they have left is a GF.

[Axelrod]

I don't know Fate. Your rage seems out of proportion to what is actually happening in this game.

[Axelrod]

My opinion of the pool of people Imp might have shot into is {Fate, Katsuki, Kittymo}

The first two he explicitly called scum on the last day. The last one I don't know if he ever said anything about, but was in the pool that Hiplop suggested that he agreed to.

BS was also in that pool though, so after his flip Imp might have felt justified going outside it.

[Axelrod]

The last scum player has to be playing better, right? Right?

They can't all be completely terrible. That's just odds.

The only way Godz could be scum here though is if (1) he's a GF and ALSO an Insane Cop (2) He's a GF but bluffing the Insane Cop thing and just getting lucky there is no actual Insane Cop (3) He's an Insane Cop but NOT actually a GF, which begs the question what happened to Implosion's shot (4) He's an Insane Cop, not a GF, but there is another scum out there like a Role-blocker who we have seen no evidence for the whole game.

None of these things seem particularly likely, completely aside from the fact I thought he was Town a long time ago from the way he was posting.

So, Katsuki, what exactly is your argument here besides OMGUS?

[Axelrod]

Sheesh, I was attempting to be humorous people. Although the (last?) scum is not immediately obvious to me right at this second, so I guess by definition he's playing better than the other ones.

[Axelrod]

Well, this was a lot less stressful than it might have been.

I would say Spiffeh and Hiplop nailed it pretty hard this game. Several other Town people played really well too, and those that didn't still didn't play as bad as the scum so it really didn't make that much difference.

Well Modded, FakeGod.