BLOODBORNE MAFIA - GAME OVER


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Post Post #1052 (isolation #0) » Thu May 26, 2016 10:56 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 1049, Nahdia wrote:people who include themselves in their own readslists are my trigger
In post 1050, Sensei wrote:same

also pagetop
{Reasonably Irrational}
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<3

-Cerb

P.S. Naw Nahdia leave A50 alone. I'm like, not seeing much scumminess from him, and no towniness really, but Elbirn think's he's town so *shrug* I'll be out for the day, sorry all, I slept all day and now I'm leaving. :(Gotta reread shadow_step and Fire Assassin, those are kinda the top suspects for Elbirn and myself right now(well, shadow_step is mine, and Elbirn put our vote on Fire Assassin, so I assume that's his, he kinda blamed it on just sheeping ABR so I need to see if there was an actual reason buried deep in his psyche).
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Post Post #4046 (isolation #1) » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:02 pm

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Dwlee, unvote please. Nobody vote for at least a bit. :-/ I've received some earth shattering news that sorta screws up everything that was planned for today.
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Post Post #4420 (isolation #2) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:08 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Hello all.

So. First of all, I love you Varsoon. There is no one who I would rather play a game with, against, or under the moderation of. <3

Now, a few points.

1) This town sucked. Except Shadow_step, I think, who was a fucking champion actively participating in the game after death. Kudos man. Much love.
2) The scum team, except Nahdia, also sucked.
3) Anyone(looking at you House) who wants to blame our slot for anything this game needs to back the fuck off Elbirn and fight me. I'm the one who was making the majority of the calls this game. Elbirn advised, but he didn't have the mechanical grasp on things that I did, so yeah. My fault.
4) Because of the above, yes, I fucked up, but not nearly as badly as you seem to think. Elbirn and I were suspicious of Nahdia(Elbirn in particular), and it wasn't until we received D&D's message vouching for them, which was followed by Mixed6 vouching for them as well, that we just said fuck it might as well trust them. I selected Nahdia for *1* hunt. The second hunt I was on she was only part of because Varsoon started the day early(since that was the night when I realized she was probscum), and she would have been removed had the day started at the actual deadline. The only special information I gave to Nahdia was regarding my role/vileblood membership.
5) Speaking of Varsoon starting the day early. None of this would have happened if the day hadn't started early. I went to my PT with dwlee to just say fuck it, let's lynch her, need to be safe, and found out it was locked already. I DID mishandle the situation, I should have at that point created a PT with dwlee to chat with him,but i was greedy and wanted to get up to 7 insight, but that shouldn't have been necessary. If the day doesn't start early on D5 or whatever, Nahdia is lynched by Dwlee and myself 100% of the time.
6) Now, Varsoon...did Nahdia actually trigger her nightmare event before the hammer happened, and you let her cancel it?
She says she went back and forth, and thinks the last choice was for it to be active before the hammer. If that's the case, and you let her change it afterwards, that's really really shitty man. Like, even worse than starting the day early, since I know there are town slots who tried to SUBMIT actions after the hammer which you didn't allow(for example, Dwlee, who should have had a vial to use to protect himself).
7)FA, I can post our logs from skype in the PT, we knew you were likely town but wanted you dead because anyone who uses a vig/gladiate on N1, when they have the least information possible, can't be trusted to not keep doing it.
8)Mechanically, the Amygdala slot was almost certainly a mistake. At 3k echoes it could easily gain access to a quad vote through transcendence+the hunters axe(though the problem was really transcendence more than anything else). In any case, from quite early on in the game it was very easy for that slot to speed lynch people by themselves in an unstoppable fashion(they even had a mechanical means of giving themselves EVEN MORE echoes and insight). Only fear of vigs kept them in check I'm assuming, and given that there were no unconditional vigs in the game, they could have easily ripped through the town even earlier than they did. The problem there though was transcendence more than anything else. The fact that the single greatest counter was negated by something those who had access to the greater power could likely purchase was a very big deal.
9) The town sucks, again. You all KNEW that Nahdia was scum, and had to be lynched, and yet nobody fucking showed up? Except Shinobi, who is a boss for doing so. Like, wtf guys? Do you realize that she had a lynch threshold of *3*, and if any single other person had shown up, she would have been lynched and the game saved?
10)KC, buying the old hunters bone was a terrible mistake. It didn't do anything to protect you from actually getting lynched(because the person most likely to vote for you could dump a buncha poison on you, thus bypassing the vote limitation of the bone), and it was an incredibly self serving action. Had we lynched Nahdia, that fact alone negated all the positive feelings I had about your slot due to your party selection on D1. OKay, maybe not that fact alone, but that plus the fact that you actually did claim Ghernam.
11) Speaking of D1 party composition. WTF man? Easy scum team hunting party on D1, and they would have all had at least 1 insight, with KC having 2, and one other member having 2, by the start of D2. MINIMUM. plus those echoes. And free fucking items from hunters dream, so they could have used all that money on getting the actual high ticket items.

Umm. I might have more thoughts. I think some people said some bullshit in this post game that should probably be addressed, but I don't remember what things they said.
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Post Post #4421 (isolation #3) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:15 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Oh, and just for the record, our goal this game, from D1, because of the level of power we gave to people in the vilebloods, was solely to identify town and only give power to them.

We succeeded at that, and town kept lynching our town reads. Yes, we were talked into townreading nahdia, and yes, I overestimated KC's greed if given the position she was in...but seriously, every fucking mislynch the town made, we opposed. The ONLY reason why we were on those wagons was because we knew our role couldn't die and we wanted to keep increasing our threat level to scum so they'd eventually waste a kill on us, and then we'd come back 2 phases later to surprise them.

@Nahdia: You would have lynched us anyways. We did not have the protections or any of the benefits of the vilebloods. We were "just" immortal, and could recruit people/talk in there. We didn't have the rune or anything, so...yeah. If you had ever attempted to quicklynch one of the members of our PT, it would have mattered, but you didn't, so us claiming that to you didn't have any negative effects on the game state. I had one more thing to say to you in particular, but I can't remember it. :(
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Post Post #4425 (isolation #4) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:19 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

OH!

I DIDN'T HAVE SHIT TO PROTECT MYSELF WITH AND I JUKED YOU INTO GIVING ME A CHANCE TO WIN THE GAME FOR TOWN! <3

which was then squandered because I don't fucking know the damn forum ate my fucking post and ope nahdia wins. But still. I really shouldn't have been alive the next day.
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Post Post #4434 (isolation #5) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:25 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4424, Nahdia wrote:
In post 4420, Cerberus v666 wrote:Varsoon started the day early(since that was the night when I realized she was probscum)
I think you mean 47 hours and 45 minutes late? ;)
Actually irrelevant, because the deadline is the deadline yo. *shrug* in any case, those 48 hours just made up for all the time I spent getting ready for my move and not investigating your slot. :P The game state was restored to where it should have been, EXCEPT for the part where the day started at a time other than the deadline.

No bueno yo. No bueno.

Also: The lie about the nightmare event was mean. Like, seriously. It was unnecessary and just hurtful, because everyone in there was dead and all you did was impact our personal lives. So yeah. That was pretty shitty of you.

pedit: random, the mechanical reason for why Nahdia was essentially conftown holds true, HOWEVER, I reached that conclusion after having been talked into not questioning Nahdia by others. In any case, Amygdalas role certainly shouldn't have existed, at least not as a scum role. Town can be given the ability to unilaterally lynch, because town can fuck it up. Also, note, I said it was my fault and I fucked up? I was just outlining what led to the mistake I, and nobody else, made.

Scum cannot.
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Post Post #4435 (isolation #6) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:25 am

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In post 4432, Nahdia wrote:Also, Cerb and RI have now both claimed the other vouched for me to them. Heh. I'm feeling the love, guys.

I think what I'm most proud of in this game is realizing early on how critical information was going to be and putting myself at the center of that flow info. The scum PT is like, 75% me largely because I was constantly reporting back information I was being fed by various sources.
Cerb and RI?
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Post Post #4443 (isolation #7) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:31 am

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Oh wait. Sorry random. Ranger AND KC. Yeah. Like I said, I overestimated KC's greed(because yeah, this game could have been over WAY sooner if she had just dumped her team in the huntmasters party and recruited them so two of them had weapons in the first dungeon). The Ranger thing was purely because she deliberately wasted a mechanical bonus.

Ranger: Was that a mistake, or was it calculated? If it was calculated, kudos. If it was a mistake, then. bleh. Lucky you. :)

pedit: Nahdia, you spent like hours after the thread was locked saying you weren't sure if the lynch was going to happen or not(the nightmare event lynch). Like, I was fucking driving across the country and kept checking the game so I could be there to lynch you if you had actually activated it.

And yes, I didn't vouch for your towniness Nahdia, but I did like keeping you around because you're entertaining. Then, when Mixed6 was part of your nightmare, he vouched for you via our codes, and so did D&D via the message they had sent, so yeah. I kept you alive in the very early game, and their vouching kept me from looking at you ever again(even though i should have as soon as you claimed to be patches master).

And yeah, the only things I'm actually cranky about are 1) the forum not posting my stupid lynch post, and 2) the day not starting at deadline/my PT with dwlee getting closed early. Everything else is fine.
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Post Post #4445 (isolation #8) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:34 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4444, Nahdia wrote:
In post 4443, Cerberus v666 wrote:Nahdia, you spent like hours after the thread was locked saying you weren't sure if the lynch was going to happen or not(the nightmare event lynch). Like, I was fucking driving across the country and kept checking the game so I could be there to lynch you if you had actually activated it.
I really didn't know. I was being completely honest. I was checking the game too. I didn't know if Varsoon would honor my request to turn it off.
But...you just said you NEVER activated it right now. Like...which is it?

Another thing: My post I was going to make to lynch you also included a bit telling shadow_step to vote for KC for tomorrow. :P *sigh*

Of course, i would have been dead, but KC would have been numbed(since that's how I was going to use the insight gained from your lynch).
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Post Post #4447 (isolation #9) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:36 am

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Ope. NM. :P

I misread your post.

You meant you never actually used the insight giving ability. :P So it wasn't quite that easy to lynch you. I thought you were referring to the nightmare event. Alrighty. Still a useless lie cuz you had already won!

And okay, so yeah, that means I do have cause to possibly be mad at Varsoon. :P
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Post Post #4448 (isolation #10) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:38 am

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I'm probably not going to bother reading your scum PT. Normally I do, but this game was so much about my fuck ups that I really have no desire to relive them.
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Post Post #4452 (isolation #11) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:44 am

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In post 4449, Nahdia wrote:Well yeah, I just figured I'd feed you some false information just in case more shenanigans. I mean, I did have you murder you twice -_-'
You're just lucky that I didn't manage to lynch you. Had I done so, then you guys would have been obligated to kill either Dwlee or myself, we'd have both probably died in the ngiht(one to the lynch, one to the NK), and then when i came back to life your team wouldn't have had a night phase of planning to deal with me. :P
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Post Post #4455 (isolation #12) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:48 am

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In post 4453, Dwlee99 wrote:Tfw nahdia quicklynches 3 days in a row
Zzz
:( Yeah. You shoulda had a vial on that night you died too. :-/
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Post Post #4457 (isolation #13) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:54 am

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In post 4456, Dwlee99 wrote:The fact that that was a role made this game stupid. Everything else was fine other than the voting mechanics, and even those were balanced by one person not being able to quick lynch by themselves es. Except nahdia >_>
Pedit oh yeah didn't the nightmare event get cancelled but I didn't get a vial? That is great
Yeah. That seems to be the case. We need H&M to confirm they did input sending a vial to you, but yeah. If they did, and you didn't get a vial(which would have made you unlynchable, guaranteeing she got lynched that night), but Nahdia got to cancel her death sentence...that's not okay. :-/
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Post Post #4465 (isolation #14) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:13 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4459, Nahdia wrote:There's no action stated that H&M gave you a vial.

Even if there was, I know it's going to seem unfair but honestly I think given the context me canceling the event should have been acceptable.
It was my own ability that was about to sentence me to death because of the moderator's sporadic schedule and nothing else.
The mod giving me an out from that is a reasonable concession, in my opinion.
No. You hammered to end the day. You should have ensured your ability was cancelled BEFORE the hammer. Allowing you to cancel it afterwards is not acceptable, and IF day action control was allowed during twilight, then it should have been allowed for all roles, period.
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Post Post #4468 (isolation #15) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:15 am

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Like, if you read the PT I have with H&M, they say they submitted the action after the hammer, but before the night actually started. There's no reason why a town slot would lie to us about that(but it's possible they did).

And true, there was no reason to know that dwlee would be the target that night, except for him frothing at the mouth to kill you and him possessing like 7 votes or some shit.

Granted, you could have numbed him, but still, as a multi-voting mason who was out for your blood...pretty much the obvious kill.
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Post Post #4469 (isolation #16) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:16 am

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There was no catching us off guard though Nahdia. Once I realized you were scum, I even said in your nightmare that you were going to use your nightmare PT to lynch dwlee.

Dwlee and I would have still been around, but yes, it is possible that we wouldn't have attempted to vote for you as soon as that thread opened.
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Post Post #4472 (isolation #17) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:20 am

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Sure. So basically IF the thread wasn't locked long enough when the event started for us ot all READ and realize we could all vote, you would have caught us off guard. :P If it wasn't, then we would have just read what it said and realized we could all vote.
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Post Post #4474 (isolation #18) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:22 am

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In any case...the issue here is with allowing you to turn it off, and not allowing others to submit their action. If he doesn't accept actions after the hammer etc, then it's a quicklynch thing and maybe you lynch dwlee, maybe you don't, we'll never actually know. If he DOES accept them after the hammer, then dwlee is alive the next day. Does that matter? I have absolutely no idea.
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Post Post #4475 (isolation #19) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:24 am

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In post 4473, Nahdia wrote:Assumes you were all going to have voting actions ready and be refreshing like mad like we were for the start of this day.

Which you weren't.

It's whatever. dwlee is right. This isn't an argument worth having, we have to agree to disagree.
:) It purely depends on how long the thread would have been locked to allow the members of the PT to read what was happening. *shrug*

That's something we shall never know, because yeah. Entirely up to Varsoon how much of a quicklynch race he wanted to make that event be, if it was supposed to just be a free kill for scum, or if it was supposed to have some risk attached to it.
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Post Post #4485 (isolation #20) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:04 pm

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In post 4477, Zulfy wrote:Town deserved this
QFT.

And hmm. Maybe Nahdia misremembers then, cause as far as she knew, she had submitted it. :/

Regarding shadow_step: the way I read the ability was that it could submit votes through that PT, period. The targeting limitations were for other abilities. Again, that's just how I read it. If it wasn't how you intended it to function, then yeah, total mistake by you.

Although given that the pt was controlled by scum, and scum wanted to put town in there.....it means shadow_steps targets for voting would have been almost entirely town.

Again, not sure of the intentions there.
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Post Post #4487 (isolation #21) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:21 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4486, Elbirn wrote:
In post 4477, Zulfy wrote:Town deserved this
I disagree tbh. No one deserved this. Nahdia should have gotten a solo 3p win and that's about it.

I'm really sorry that we lynched you zulfy, I know my whimsical style doesn't really do much to persuade people but I really felt in my heart that you were town and I couldn't stop everyone from lynching you and then cerb got on the wagon because "muh echoes" :(
Yeah. :-/ We had a very straightforward plan to get uber insight and echoes quickly and get ourselves NK'd ASAP....but then we got muscled out of a lynch, and I was like no, this delayed things too much, can't let it happen again. :(

And, yeah, I do agree that Nahdia is the only one who deserved a win.

But town certainly also deserved to lose.
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Post Post #4489 (isolation #22) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:32 pm

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Don't worry, I blame myself for us losing this, like completely. Even though I may have given reasons for things based on being persuaded by other people, the ultimate fault for allowing myself to be persuaded lies with me.

It's especially crazy with Nahdia, because there were multiple times(Like when she INSISTED on buying the whirligig, after already having a buncha votes) where I was like...why the fuck am I townreading this person again? And I just never went back and looked things over again cause lazy. And I even was on friggin patches wiki page MULTIPLE times to see if there was any flavor to indicate whether he was town or scum, and like...completely missed the Amygdala connection, and just said fuck it, who cares, we don't even know who owns the slot, and then I never went back to check again when Nahdia claimed to me, which was quite dumb.

In retrospect, A50 should have probably shot Patches D1. That would have likely been optimal, because the slot was of questionable alignment, and without an outright claim of ownership, we probably shouldn't have left it sit around when someone had the ability to kill it. *shrug*
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Post Post #4508 (isolation #23) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:08 pm

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Well yeah, it's literally the only move that was possible once one accepts the premise that we didn't enable any communication after death. :D not too impressive to suss that out once you've made that assumption. :)

I actually completely forgot that sensei gained insight from invitations....though I *did* question you and assumed you had more insight than one scum lynch and the dungeons accounted for. Just another investigative thread that I gave up on cause too busy with rl to bother. Easier to just take your word for it.
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Post Post #4516 (isolation #24) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:31 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Lack of participation=shit play. This is obviously wholly my opinion, but when you have less content than people who died literally weeks ago, you don't deserve to win. Just a universal thing I feel.

And yes, I townread you because your play was far more suboptimal than I would have expected from scum you.

And yes, buying the old hunter bone was bad because if we had actually won that particular posting war thing, you put a target on yourself. It wasn't subtle is the thing. Mechanically, it was equally likely that Nahdia or <any town slot> would be lynched on D5 and D7. Had she been lynched at either of those junctions, you had exposed your slot in exchange for....what?

My point is that 2/3 of your members had functionally scum claimed by the end of the game, and it was literally latency that decided whether your team would be punished for it or not. THAT is why buying that item was bad.

You don't buy that item(and don't claim Ghernam!!!) and I continue to think that it's possible the plain doll and PT were controlled by someone else.
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Post Post #4520 (isolation #25) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:36 pm

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No, nothing is worse than the simple fact that I opened up my PT to tell dwlee to go ahead and lynch Nahdia when the day started/was gonna give him a signal and found that I could no longer tell him that even though the deadline said 15 minutes left.

That entire situation happened wholly because I was denied the ability to coordinate with dwlee at a time when I should have been able to. This was before we knew it was all a race. It wasn't town not being fast enough, on that first day.

Pedit: it makes even less sense to buy it then Nahdia. lol.
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Post Post #4526 (isolation #26) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:44 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Eh, still not good. You had both dwlee and myself as lynch targets in your nightmare that night. If either of us had bought it, just strongman that one, and lynch the other.

*shrug*

I also want to make it clear to everyone that I'm incredibly upset with myself over my play this game, and(as I've said) blame myself entirely for the loss. So, if I'm talking shit on your play, I'm not saying I'm better(even though I probably am, cause I'm an egotistical asshole ), but I'm saying your play, irrespective of our alignments and the result of the game, was sub optimal.

Pedit: yes, I could have, but I was on my fucking phone and living on my mom's couch at the time, 45 minutes before I was supposed to leave for my road trip. So...yeah. 15 minutes of talking in plain speech in our PT removes all of that. :/
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Post Post #4528 (isolation #27) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:46 pm

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And...no Zorblag in our PT is actually worse for you Nahdia, considering I cued off of him saying we might as well consider you town and concede defeat if you were scum. He said that, and I was like yeah sure whatever fuck it. :p
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Post Post #4530 (isolation #28) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:51 pm

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Yeah. Nightmare recruits should have probably happened before killing though, honestly. Just made the game more interesting(if people had actually been paying attention of course).

That doesn't excuse the fact that he shouldn't have been around, but yeah. Just an observation.
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Post Post #4531 (isolation #29) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:06 pm

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Oh, another thing: the entire reason why I claimed the rune thing to you, Nahdia, was because I waa starting to have some crazy talk doubts about randomidget (cause PoE and paranoia), and was concerned about screwing up a quicklynch on him if I decided it was likely he was scum. So yeah. I know it appeared as though I claimed that for no reason at all, but I had some serious self doubt.

Mechanically, didn't end up mattering since the rune did not benefit me in any way, but it would have been reasonable for you to go after dwlee instead of me with that lynch, so it COULD have mattered.
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Post Post #4533 (isolation #30) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:13 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4532, Nahdia wrote:i am drunk and i love you all

good game <3
Love you too. <3

Especially FA. I'm sorry I made you unhappy. :(
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Post Post #4535 (isolation #31) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:24 pm

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Not at all. What I think is optimal play in the game has NOTHING to do with how I feel about individuals. I don't ever want to make anyone unhappy.
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Post Post #4537 (isolation #32) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:25 pm

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:( I don't understand how what I said could make you want to hate me personally, but okay.
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Post Post #4540 (isolation #33) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:34 pm

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In post 4538, Frozen Angel wrote:Your play here was scandal and your coming here acting like you were a god and I was the suboptimal who is just crying now cuase I'm personally upset that you were right

your just disgusting
That's not what I've said at all. I fucked up a bunch? And I outlined where and how I did so. Yes, some things I've blamed on extenuating circumstances, but in the end the overall fault is mine. I don't know how many different ways I can say that. :/ Like I said, just because I think something someone did is suboptimal doesn't mean I'm saying I'm better than them. All I'm doing is offering my viewpoint on the situations that came up and the choices people made. :/

I made incorrect decisions, and so did others. When I say the town sucked it's more because of people just not playing and being active than because town made bad choices generally. :/
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Post Post #4541 (isolation #34) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:36 pm

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Anyways. Hopefully some time in the future you'll find it in yourself to forgive me for being an insufferable prick sometimes. I wish you nothing but the best FA. I'll leave you alone now.
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Post Post #4545 (isolation #35) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:40 pm

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I didn't forget your negative utility.

There was just never enough time in any of the day phases to push you about it. :(
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Post Post #4546 (isolation #36) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:43 pm

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Like on two occasions right as I got people actually talking in the game thread, a TOWN slot would force a quicklynch. :/

Frozen, will you be happier if I leave you alone or if we talk about this?
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Post Post #4550 (isolation #37) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:02 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

I wasn't even trying to find scum in the standard fashion this game. I was wholly focused on identifying strong to certain town reads, and getting power in their hands rather than that of scum.

I clearly screwed up.

I didn't catch Nahdia because she slipped. I caught her because things about the slot just didn't make sense and then when I looked further I found flavor cause to be suspicious of her, and then she claimed her fake claim which only made sense to me if she was scum. If she had claimed Amygdala I woulda shrugged (although doing so would have made me certain KC was scum, since flavorwise only 3 other Great ones existed and since I expected 5 scum Ghernam, as a boss in the game, woulda made sense as the one filling out the scum team).

I had lots of reads throughout, but I also had no reason to share them. The goal was solely to give power to town, and to accumulate enough myself that scum would shoot me because they didn't know how I would use it. Therefore I didn't share the conclusions Elbirn and I arrived at in the main thread (ofc, this was all for naught since I had one scum in my safe place, so they knew whether or not they should be suspicious of me).

I DO find it doubtful that you have a statistically significant basis for your belief that your methods are especially accurate.

I don't believe I ever advertised for your death. ABR wanted you quicklynched, I wanted to discuss the situation further, but I do believe that it was suboptimal for town to be forced into a gladiate on D2, and I was happy we were out of it.

Even if we did advertise for your death while you were sleeping..how were we to know that? I don't pay attention to anyone's schedule unless they make a point of advertising it.

Meh. That's way more than I wanted to say. All I actually wanted to talk about was us pushing you out of the hunt party,amd that was purely because we KNEW Dwlee and Mixed6 were masons, wanted to be in the party ourselves, and were much more confident in other slots as town.

It had less to do with you, and more to do with others being strong town reads, therefore don't put the questionable slot in the party.
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Post Post #4551 (isolation #38) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:05 pm

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Actually, Ranger, a bigger problem than the scum in the townblock thing, imo, was the quicklynches. Like I said, every time actual discussion started happening, someone in the town would force a quicklynch. It was literally just a matter of time before Nahdia waa caught because her claim *was* flawed, but the quicklynches denied the time needed to figure things out.
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Post Post #4562 (isolation #39) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:31 pm

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Ranger: I didn't let Shinobi know about my resurrection until Nahdia had already made it clear she knew. I also figured it didn't matter if scum knew about my desire to have vials. The Shinobi information was primarily so after I lynched Nahdia, I would know if he was town or not. If scum, I wouldn't have expected him to pass the message on. I had things setup to create PTS with different sets of players depending upon whether I had received a vial or not, so I could confirm with PV that Shinobi had passed on the message (even if PV didn't send me the vial(I was quite certain PV was town)), and so I could have two people to talk to to use to pressure you, Ranger, into explaining your role.

FA: I was just addressing all the things you brought up. Considering that if the mechanics hadn't allowed Nahdia to quick lynch three days in a row, town would have lynched Nahdia, then KC, then had a bIt of waffling between Ranger and Shinobi, I'm content with the end result of my process.

FA: pretty sure everyone in that nightmare PT can vouch for the existence of reads from our slot throughout.

The confirmable part of your role didn't matter? Technically Elbirn is right, the way you phrased things made it appear as though you could unilaterally kill them, when that wasn't the case. A vote had to be on there from someone else.

Unfortunately, I don't avoid people, and it's likely that my presence in your games will cause a lot more trouble for you than for me. It would probably be better if we just didn't make statements like that about one another.
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Post Post #4566 (isolation #40) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:36 pm

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FA, by shiros own admission you were going to attempt to guarantee town mislynches two days in a row. It was clearly optimal to remove your slot before you could do that again.

I don't understand what you mean when you say blah blah is making me a god about you.
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Post Post #4570 (isolation #41) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:40 pm

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Disagree ranger. Again, considering that if I had just quicklynched Nahdia on the day that I suspected her, scum would have fallen one after another, without bothering to work with those outside the town bloc, I don't think you can blame the towns loss on that.

FA: I didn't call your playstyle luck. I said your a good player who I believe attributes their success to the wrong factors.
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Post Post #4576 (isolation #42) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:45 pm

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What are you even talking about FA?

Other than the bit about the gladiate (which, btw, is a situation where NOBODY in the game has suggested they would prefer to let their slot die over creating a gladiate the next day), I have no idea what relevance any of that has to what you quoted.
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Post Post #4578 (isolation #43) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:47 pm

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@shiro: after dwlee flip means after forcing mislynches on two slots who otherwise would have NEVER been lynched (as shown by them never being in danger of being lynched all game).
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Post Post #4583 (isolation #44) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:51 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4580, Nahdia wrote:
In post 4577, Frozen Angel wrote:I was Icky on nahdia becuase of end of day 1
as everyone should have been in all honestly
Yeah. Elbirn wanted your head on a platter. I explained it away cause in Space Dandy you were repeatedly locked out of lynches and resources. :/

Pedit: and if it's the same power that of hijacking towns lynch for the day, you're going to get everyone railing against you and plotting to kill you. :/
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Post Post #4589 (isolation #45) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:56 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4571, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 4566, Cerberus v666 wrote:FA, by shiros own admission you were going to attempt to guarantee town mislynches two days in a row. It was clearly optimal to remove your slot before you could do that again.

I don't understand what you mean when you say blah blah is making me a god about you.
I did a mistake and did what i did - expecting high standards from players like shadow

clearly I was wrong and I'm sorry about that.

a player who lies to get a town cred in gladiation with a town who ghe thinks is town won't be considered having that higher standards

I won't do this mistake again

now I was the one who suggested bogre

I called patches scum

I called you scum and I would eleminate you for your play and I will do so again if I see a play like that again.

now anything else am I guilty for?

oh townreading Ranger ? k I townreaded ranger

done?

is this all I'm guilty for?
This is the thing I didn't really understand.
In post 4572, House wrote:
In post 4551, Cerberus v666 wrote:Actually, Ranger, a bigger problem than the scum in the townblock thing, imo, was the quicklynches. Like I said, every time actual discussion started happening, someone in the town would force a quicklynch. It was literally just a matter of time before Nahdia waa caught because her claim *was* flawed, but the quicklynches denied the time needed to figure things out.
Which happened in no small part out of spite at being shut out of the information flow, so that can't even be thrown off on others.
House you are responsible for your own decisions.

Pedit: we already established that we figured you were town by the end, but it just didn't matter. You had to die for the same reason Zulfy deserved to die in SF.

Also, you could have just chosen to not do it. Again, no town slot will ever allow themselves to just be killed.
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Post Post #4592 (isolation #46) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:58 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4588, Ranger wrote:
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Shadow was conftown when bogre picked him for his nightmare pt.
Except, he didn't.
Shadow lied.

He was town, but he was lying.
Bogre didn't choose anyone. Shadow was there since the start.
Furthermore, you're continuing to show ignorance to the mechanics in play.
Their action was a day action, during D1, before Bogre was lynched.
They did not have Bogre's flip in mind when they made their vig.
And they weren't the ones who chose to gladiate.
That was Shadow.

Which is, again, why I sympathize a lot with Frozen Angel. (Though, Frozen Angel, my dear, I can't say you're blameless either, sorry. <3)
Sure, shadow lied, but it was obviously optimal to do so. Your job as town is to not get mislynched, and by doing so he ensured he would never be mislynched.

And again, the power simply shouldn't have been used so early in the game.

Ranger, you've been ignoring my posts. Why?
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Post Post #4595 (isolation #47) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:02 pm

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In post 4591, Shiro wrote:I fully disagree with the policy lynch on Zulfy in saga.

It was pure trash
There was no policy lynch on zulfy in saga. Town realized he must be town, along with abr, and no lynched, and he got killed by scum. So, like you, he hijacked the kynch to create a mislynch, HOWEVER in that game no lynch was an option.
In post 4593, Nahdia wrote:
In post 4592, Cerberus v666 wrote:
In post 4588, Ranger wrote:
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Shadow was conftown when bogre picked him for his nightmare pt.
Except, he didn't.
Shadow lied.

He was town, but he was lying.
Bogre didn't choose anyone. Shadow was there since the start.
Furthermore, you're continuing to show ignorance to the mechanics in play.
Their action was a day action, during D1, before Bogre was lynched.
They did not have Bogre's flip in mind when they made their vig.
And they weren't the ones who chose to gladiate.
That was Shadow.

Which is, again, why I sympathize a lot with Frozen Angel. (Though, Frozen Angel, my dear, I can't say you're blameless either, sorry. <3)
Sure, shadow lied, but it was obviously optimal to do so. Your job as town is to not get mislynched, and by doing so he ensured he would never be mislynched.

And again, the power simply shouldn't have been used so early in the game.

Ranger, you've been ignoring my posts. Why?
Optimal until someone rolecops you and finds out you lied and suddenly we got full Lynch All Liars.
Sure, but if you're going to get lynched like 100% of the time otherwise, it's all upside. Worst case is you end up lynched laterx which was gonna happen anyways. Best case scum are forced to NK you.
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Post Post #4597 (isolation #48) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:04 pm

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Again. No town slot should ever let themselves be killed. The fault lies with the party who forced that choice on them, not in them for choosing to survive.

I honestly do not believe anyone else who plays mafia would think it was the best play to let themselves get killed as town.
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Post Post #4601 (isolation #49) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:07 pm

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Zulfy wasn't policied, Shiro lynch was shit in saga, killing you and allowing town to choose their lynch was optimal(you were going to die on D2, 100% of the time, the only question was whether you'd make us use our lynch to do it or not), houses play was shit, there was no reason to force the end of the day like that. None at all.
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Post Post #4606 (isolation #50) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:10 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4602, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 4601, Cerberus v666 wrote:Zulfy wasn't policied, Shiro lynch was shit in saga, killing you and allowing town to choose their lynch was optimal(you were going to die on D2, 100% of the time, the only question was whether you'd make us use our lynch to do it or not), houses play was shit, there was no reason to force the end of the day like that. None at all.
:mrgreen:

you just suck
Do you even understand what I'm saying? Your first point literally did not happen. Then I agree with you that the shiro lynch was bad.

....
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Post Post #4612 (isolation #51) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:15 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4600, Ranger wrote:
Cerberus v666 wrote:2) The scum team, except Nahdia, also sucked.
I disagree.
I would not say I played a strong scum game. Only Nahdia did, with Klingoncelt very closely behind but not
quite
at that high of a level.
But I don't think this was a weak game. This was a Large game. It is the first Large game as scum that I have survived in. (For that matter, it's the first Large game I've survived in, period.) That, in of itself, is an accomplishment. Then you get how there was never once a serious push on me, and how neither Nahdia nor Klingoncelt needed to come to my rescue. Given that, I don't think I was a load to my scumteam. I held my own.

I think my play was, therefore, thoroughly mediocre: good enough to get by, but not noteworthy. An average scum game, nothing special, but nothing terrible either.
Klingoncelt definitely did not suck. She was considered obvtown by most of the game, and many of our best decisions were spearheaded by her. Her idea of having an all-town hunting party D1? All on her. She played really well, and if memory serves, also did not have any serious wagon on her at any time and was seen as even less suspicious than I was overall to players.

Bogre though totally sucked, yes.
9) The town sucks, again. You all KNEW that Nahdia was scum, and had to be lynched, and yet nobody fucking showed up? Except Shinobi, who is a boss for doing so. Like, wtf guys? Do you realize that she had a lynch threshold of *3*, and if any single other person had shown up, she would have been lynched and the game saved?
I think the damage was done.

Nahdia could still control her nightmare. Klingoncelt could control hers. Between those two, they could do some serious damage to the town even with Nahdia dead. Plus, for all of the claims that we would be lynched...would we have been lynched? There were talks of H&A being lynched, talks of PV being lynched, talks of me being lynched, and so on; I didn't quite see the level of coherent AND accurate scumreads that would be needed to win the game, so I'm pretty sure the game was lost for the town even if Nahdia died.
I address this earlier. I find anyone who plays without participating in the thread as unworthy of victory. In that sense, the only slot on your team worthy of victory was Nahdia. Thus, the rest of you sucked.

KC was fairly obviously scum after she bought the old hunter bone and claimed ghernam+the nightmare hijacking crap.

*shrug* I assure you, in a game where town could have actually talked during the day/been able to lynch normally, your team was going to get chain lynched(assuming my survival), with the only uncertainty being whether we'd lynch you or shinobi third, with the other coming fourth.
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Post Post #4613 (isolation #52) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:19 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4609, Ranger wrote:
randomidget wrote:You told me that Ranger AND KC were essentially conf town when I scumread them.
Klingoncelt was understandable.
I flat-out TOLD Cerb,
in this thread
, he shouldn't be townreading me though, so I'm not sure WHAT gave him the idea I was conftown.

I certainly didn't do anything warranting that comment as far as I know.

So, yeah, curious about that.
Ceberus v666 wrote:The Ranger thing was purely because she deliberately wasted a mechanical bonus. Ranger: Was that a mistake, or was it calculated?
Uhh...you're gonna have to tell me what the mechanical bonus I wasted was, because I have absolutely no freakin' clue what you're talking about.
...Given that?
Probably like, 90% certain it was a "mistake". Because legit have no idea what you could possibly be referring to. My role as far as I know was borderline useless. If there was some SUPER AWESOME SCUM UTILITY in it, I sure didn't see it.
Oh, it was just that you wasted your poison knife on the hunt. There was no reason for you to use it, KC had enough votes to finish off the boss. I couldn't imagine scum!ranger deliberately throwing away something that could literally be the difference between a win and a loss, and you did.

That was it.

When you still hadn't done anything 2 days later the shine from.that had worm off, and you were a suspect again.
In post 4610, Shiro wrote:Oh yea my bad, I though he was lynched yhe next day.

And cerb, we only died because I ACTED town. When Abr was bitxhing I had the votes post ready. Shadow was a goner but FA kept me from doing so. it is best to keep discussing. I went to sleep. I woke up with us dead.

So yea, that 100% if the time is BS

Also I am pretty sure we would have been useful, shadow wasn't
We were organizing a quicklynch in the hunters party, so it's possible you would have beat us. *shrug*
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Post Post #4619 (isolation #53) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:24 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4614, Nahdia wrote:
In post 4612, Cerberus v666 wrote:*shrug* I assure you, in a game where town could have actually talked during the day/been able to lynch normally, your team was going to get chain lynched(assuming my survival), with the only uncertainty being whether we'd lynch you or shinobi third, with the other coming fourth.
I heavily doubt this, quite frankly.

That's fine. I guarantee that's what would have happened had town won the race today. I was csrtain the vial givers were all town, shibobi v ranger was resolved by him being here to vote you at day start, and since I then knew there was only one scum left, my only reservation about KC (that is, the full town hunters party) was resolved.

It's possible scum may have got another mislynch out of us if I had lynched you the first time, because we did not have all the information we did today.
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Post Post #4621 (isolation #54) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:28 pm

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In post 4618, Frozen Angel wrote:The fact your bragging about quick lynching a town is a reason you suck
...
Shiro is doing the same thing? Saying he would have successfully quicklynched shadow_step (town) before we could lynch you.

Shiro: we could have done it without anyone else even without the beastood thing, but yeah, I for got ABR assumed you had beasthood and planned it out that way, which would have failed. It woulda just taken more resources, but yeah, in the scenario we were in it would have failed. You would have gladiate dwlee (who would have been saved by virtue of being a mason, so you get lynched the next day) or me...and I win that 1v1, because I'd numbing mist you in the night after being presented with that option. :p
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Post Post #4622 (isolation #55) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:30 pm

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In post 4620, Shiro wrote:Cerb buddy friend, you do realise they made theirselves obvious because they knew they were going yo quicklynch chain you. Like dude please stop. When you figures it out, they didn't bloody care.
That's untrue. If KC didn't think there was a chance of losing, she would have just shot me in the night instead of toogeloo.

Also, her post buying the bone? Made before the quicklynch.
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Post Post #4628 (isolation #56) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:36 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Fair enough.

You wouldn't have succeeded (since by virtue of your previous action you would have proven my D1 claim that your slots judgment couldn't be trusted true), but we may have lynched scum that day instead...but then the next day you would a gladiate dwlee or me amd it would have played out the same way, just delayed. :p
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Post Post #4631 (isolation #57) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:38 pm

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Naw, any end to the day that didn't have your slot dead was bad because we couldn't trust you. :/
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Post Post #4632 (isolation #58) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:39 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Naw you need context FA. RC said he was bad at mafia if we were town. *shrug*
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Post Post #4634 (isolation #59) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:41 pm

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And it's not bragging, it's making fun of RC who is legitimately terrible.

Pedit: except you hadn't. :p as I said...day starts at normal time/I get to talk to dwlee more, and we lynch Nahdia. And if scum had already won, again, no reason to make that purchase. I explained why it was a bad play earlier.
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Post Post #4640 (isolation #60) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:45 pm

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Shiro, there was no way either ABR or myself were going to endorse you guys for huntmaster. One of us endorses the other, and that one reclaims rhe vote. *shrug*

The FA thing was actually irrelevant, all your slots campaigning did was muddle the issue and make the day longer.
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Post Post #4645 (isolation #61) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:48 pm

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In post 4636, Shiro wrote:Cerb, RC is pretty damn good actually.
Disagree. In the pool of experience I have with RC, he is terrible. His play style is atrocious, and as town, his reads were shit.
In post 4638, Frozen Angel wrote:anyway I will play exactly the same way I played beside considering town can be retarded.

just sayin

and cerb still its just an insult to you . your responsible for others read on you. your responsible for being mislynched and shadow is responsible for the gladiate and the fact I died and nhdia endgamed you like that

its all 2+2 = 4 i thought your a logical boy well I might have been mistaking
You do realize I was only mislynched because mastin didn't understand the voting mechanics in the game, right? The point was RC had a shit read on us and decided he was confident enough in his shit read to say something like that, and I will mock him endlessly for that.
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Post Post #4657 (isolation #62) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:57 pm

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I don't know if kc and Ranger would have been capable of quicklynching, considering my intention to numb kc. I don't know what resources ranger had.

Now, the quicklynches: they were ALL about individuals saying fuck you to the group. First ABR, and then House.

Shiro: the votes had you guys with like one more vote than abr/myself each had. Just moving my vote on myself to ABR would have tied, and others would have followed, or vice versa.

For what it's worth, my party woulda been me the masons and random. :p

Yes, because instincts and emotion are shit and have no place here. I'm not going to stop calling a spade a spade.
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Post Post #4664 (isolation #63) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:00 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4660, Zorblag wrote:
In post 4655, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 4652, Zorblag wrote:That do be an interesting scum PT. Troll be pleased to see that some of the deceptions worked as intended even if it no amounted to nearly enough in the end.

Troll thanks all for the lovely game. It had its issues but Troll found it on the whole enjoyable. This post-game discussion perhaps less so, so Troll no will dwell here for long. If any have questions for Troll them be welcome to ask via PM.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh
I enjoyed playing with you

hope your not upset about me
Troll no be one to get upset about things like this, but there do be much blame being cast here. Troll no sees it as particularly productive and no be interested in trying to reconcile the varied opinions currently being expressed. Troll has serious doubt that there could be mutual satisfaction. Mostly there seems the potential for lingering antipathy. Troll no needs to be here helping further that.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh
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Post Post #4665 (isolation #64) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:01 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4659, Shadow_step wrote:Keep crying FA.
The game is over but you're still ranting.
It was your own fault that you got lynched.
You abused your powers to show off and it was complete anti town behaviour.
QFT. If stated a bit more abrasively than I would have done.
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Post Post #4671 (isolation #65) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:06 pm

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In post 4662, Ranger wrote:
Cerberus v666 wrote:I assure you, in a game where town could have actually talked during the day/been able to lynch normally, your team was going to get chain lynched(assuming my survival), with the only uncertainty being whether we'd lynch you or shinobi third, with the other coming fourth.
And I assure you, in a game where town could have actually talked during the day and been able to lynch normally, our play would have been different.

While my general activity this game was not alignment-indicative, if I at all felt threatened so much as once in the game, I would have been able to position myself more favorably. I simply never felt the need to.
Oh, it was just that you wasted your poison knife on the hunt. There was no reason for you to use it, KC had enough votes to finish off the boss. I couldn't imagine scum!ranger deliberately throwing away something that could literally be the difference between a win and a loss, and you did.
That should've been a scumslip, actually.
I had Nahdia(and by proxy, Patches).
I had Klingoncelt, who also had accumulated many resources.
Between those two players...I really thought my own votes would be absolutely irrelevant. I didn't need extra votes to win, because I had two of the largest power-players on my team to fill that role. If one died, the other would take up the mantle and be next.
Shiro wrote:Cerb buddy friend, you do realise they made theirselves obvious because they knew they were going yo quicklynch chain you.
That, too.
Sure, you would have likely played differently. My point is that your team exposed themselves literally *3* day phases before victory. Anything resembling coordination on the part of the town would have resulted in a quick scum loss, and the primary reason would have been for a marginal benefit, denying town that item.

pedit: Ranger, ANY usage of her power was anti-town. Even if it had been on scum. It was an anti-town power, period. Therefore, it shouldn't have been used until a situation arose where it could become more helpful than harmful to town.
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Post Post #4674 (isolation #66) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:11 pm

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Oh, and I don't think it really matters where those individuals were. The simple fact is three times in this game individuals made unilateral decisions to force lynches, and every one of those occasions resulted in a town death, with no chance of a scum death happening instead.

pedit: The ability existed to be a trap for bad mechanical players FA(in the early game), and a benefit/counter to scum absurdity in the late game. You were supposed to save it until late game to get optimal benefit out of it, not go off using it every day.
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Post Post #4675 (isolation #67) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:12 pm

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In post 4673, Shiro wrote:I believe that is BS cerb.

Varsoon said one thing he hates about his games. People are scared to use their powers because they might be judged . I tried to go against that and used it in the way I found most optimal
That doesn't matter? No matter what his personal views are on role usage, it doesn't change the fact that your role was anti-town in most situations.
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Post Post #4679 (isolation #68) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:19 pm

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In post 4677, Shiro wrote:I don't mind you not playing an awesome game, I admit I was far from it as well but bashing us for finding the most optimal use of a hard to optimize power is BS.

I still think you should have accepted death. It was obvious this was coming from a town player
I think the *only* town players in the entire game who think shadow_step did the wrong thing are you guys.

Just because the majority believes something doesn't mean it's right, but it does usually mean that perhaps you should reevaluate your position.

And like i said, the optimal way to use it was to not. It was clearly intended as a hard counter to any single overpowered slot, between you being able to gladiate them and force them to be unable to vote you, and you misused it. You misunderstand your slots role in the games balance. You weren't a vig. A50 was. House was. But by trying to play like a vig, you misplayed your role.
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Post Post #4683 (isolation #69) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:25 pm

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In post 4682, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 4677, Shiro wrote:I don't mind you not playing an awesome game, I admit I was far from it as well but bashing us for finding the most optimal use of a hard to optimize power is BS.

I still think you should have accepted death. It was obvious this was coming from a town player
It wasn't obvious which is why I didn't choose to die.
I'm not blaming you for anything.
FA is directly blaming me and A50 and RI for the town loss this game. I'm just responding to that.
I deserve the blame for the town loss.

You don't deserve blame for choosing to not die as town, when you don't know the alignment of the other party.
A50 doesn't deserve blame for the vig shot to remove that gladiate situation from the game, BUT they do deserve blame for killing D&D when they could have killed like patches instead. :P I don't konw who else they had flavor info on, so dunno what their other choices were.
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Post Post #4688 (isolation #70) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:29 pm

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In post 4684, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 4679, Cerberus v666 wrote:
In post 4677, Shiro wrote:I don't mind you not playing an awesome game, I admit I was far from it as well but bashing us for finding the most optimal use of a hard to optimize power is BS.

I still think you should have accepted death. It was obvious this was coming from a town player
I think the *only* town players in the entire game who think shadow_step did the wrong thing are you guys.

Just because the majority believes something doesn't mean it's right, but it does usually mean that perhaps you should reevaluate your position.

And like i said, the optimal way to use it was to not. It was clearly intended as a hard counter to any single overpowered slot, between you being able to gladiate them and force them to be unable to vote you, and you misused it. You misunderstand your slots role in the games balance. You weren't a vig. A50 was. House was. But by trying to play like a vig, you misplayed your role.
Shadow fucking lied about being included in bogre night mare during day 1 instead of saying he was there sinsce start just to be a worng obvious town to get us killed.

That lie was something wrong

i don't care about ypour optiomal shit . I did what was right and I did it right. you didn't even try to understand it and you killed us

here we stand so many days after that dya after day quick hammered by scum. hi
FA, would you have used a gladiate on D2? I don't think doing so is ever a good decision, and it's effectively what you did. You were guilty of not understanding that NOBODY, no matter their alignment, is going to let themselves be killed. The only way there wasn't going to be a gladiate on D2 is if you were killed in the night(or I suppose if your target has NK protection and KNEW it, so they just accepted your kill).

It has nothing to do with understanding you. I understand why you did it. I simply don't believe it was the correct play, and I believed, based on my prior experiences with you, that you couldn't be trusted to not do it again. That meant you had to be removed or neutered. The choice was to either numbing mist you every single day for the rest of the game, or kill you. We went with killing you.
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Post Post #4694 (isolation #71) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:34 pm

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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=66813

That's the PT between Mixed6 and A50...it's pretty clear that they killed you solely to stop the gladiate. The reason why they killed you over shadow_step was, I assume, because they couldn't trust you to not do it again, and because they had cause(even if it was due to a lie from him) to believe he was town. If you're choosing between two town slots, knowing one must die, it makes sense to remove the one that has an actively anti-town power and who has shown no sign that they're willing to work with anyone else.
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Post Post #4696 (isolation #72) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:35 pm

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In post 4692, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 4690, Shadow_step wrote:FA, the quicker you realise that A50 vigged you because the town bloc didn't trust your judgement in the future, and it wasn't entirely because I was conf town, the better.
The fucking townblock of this game was crooked

They were criticizing even my meta sisnce day 1

I don't really fucking care about their opinion. A50 was townreading me and was sure about it so he knew I'm not lieing about what I'm saying very likly
he killed us over shadow for more blood echoes
FA...Shadow_step was worth more echoes than you.

...

That's not why they killed you over him.
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Post Post #4699 (isolation #73) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:37 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 4695, Frozen Angel wrote:cerb and ABR has no right to be in a town block or lead anyone ever

and you weren't conf town you just lied and pretended to be one.
Dunno, it seems every time I end up in a leadership position I solve the entire game exactly one phase too late. :-/

So I guess I shouldn't be in charge of anything, because we always lose, and it just makes me feel like shit because if I had been a tiny bit better we would have won easily.
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Post Post #4700 (isolation #74) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:39 pm

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*shrug* honestly, that's all good play. Every last bit of it. You tried to kill him. He chose to fight instead of letting himself just die. All the things he said from that point on were designed to make sure you'd lose the gladiate.

It's good rhetorical play, and it's how you win a gladiate against someone townread, and it was ABSOLUTELY the correct thing to do as town who did not know your alignment.
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Post Post #4705 (isolation #75) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:43 pm

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In post 4702, Frozen Angel wrote:Its all good play to fucking lie?

nah its not he made me a target over himself and thats a main reason nahdia did what she did.

you just suck at seeing it cuase you must be always right
? What do you mean, main reason Nahdia did what she did?

Because your slot wasn't around? That's your fault for putting yourself into a position where you were in a gladiate. Like I said, you misunderstood your role. You were never meant to be a vig. You were strictly a counter to overpowered slots. By playing as a vig, you screwed yourself.

You made a mistake.

I made a LOT of mistakes.

That's all there is to it.
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Post Post #4709 (isolation #76) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:46 pm

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FA: I know exactly why I failed each time, I missed one very small thing or realized it a tiny bit too late. That's all.

Shadow: meh. Trust me, when you keep losing these awesome games because of tiny oversights, after crafting 100% win condition scenarios, it's pretty fucking shitty.

pedit: putting yourself in that position was your fault. I mean, nobody MADE you activate your power. It wasn't compulsive. You chose to use it. You shouldn't have. End of story.
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Post Post #4711 (isolation #77) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:50 pm

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In post 4710, Frozen Angel wrote:nah Its becuase gyou generally suck in sorting players . your just keep scumreading what can't you understand. a news for you you won't ever understand me or people like me. thats obvious

being in that position was not a mistake at all

as I said we can just agree to disagree here
What part of I never scumread you do you not understand? You died because it was better for town for you to be gone. Creating a situation where it's better for town if you're gone *is* a mistake.
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Post Post #4715 (isolation #78) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:53 pm

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Also, I've never claimed to actually be good at mafia. I'm good at mechanical stuff, and I'm good at late game PoE. *shrug* that's it. Everything prior to that is meh.

pedit: FA: I never said I'm a god? I state facts. There have been multiple times where it's literally impossible for scum to win(though of course as town I didn't know that, but after all the roles are shown blah blah), but because I forgot one thing(like having a town player use a certain ability or something), town loses. Basically, if I don't fuck up, town wins. I always fuck up. therefore, town loses. Simple.
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Post Post #4717 (isolation #79) » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:57 pm

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I was referring to those specific scenarios FA, not all scenarios. Those times where if I hadn't missed something, town wins.
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Post Post #4719 (isolation #80) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:04 am

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In post 4718, Frozen Angel wrote:Its really hard to talk with me I know that

you don't need to try

when I make mind about something even god can't help me change it

pedit : sure

still true fact your just an arrogant player who thinks he is really good at this but has no skill at all. at least that's how I see it though

you will deal with me thinking this way over time . I will try to accept this and deal with you too.

so we're good
Pretty sure I just said I don't actually think I'm especially good at this? I AM definitely arrogant though, particularly about mechanics and optimal play/role usage. That's the part I'm good at. I don't believe I've ever been arrogant about my reads or anything ever.

And I don't need to change your mind. Your opinion isn't really important, I just think it would be easier for us to coexist if you didn't have all this negativity about me, that's all.
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Post Post #4720 (isolation #81) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:05 am

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I mean...based on how emotional each of us are, my play isn't the one that's going to suffer if you're upset when you interact with me, ya know? Better if there's no negative feelings etc.
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Post Post #4722 (isolation #82) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:10 am

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In post 4721, Frozen Angel wrote:I have no negative feeling

I just don't trust your judgement

I think the ones that are right in theme is based on pure luck
That's fine, I don't trust yours. :p

I am serious when I say I wish you the best and don't want to make you unhappy though, okay? You don't have to believe me, but it's the truth. I'm going to go to sleep now, it's 5 a.m. Have a good day.
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Post Post #4742 (isolation #83) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:58 am

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In post 4741, Shiro wrote:Thank you.
Thank you? He said the role was anti-town. Nobody said it was scum. *shrug *
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Post Post #4758 (isolation #84) » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:06 pm

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Amazing how two people can read the exact same thing and get different answers. I read it as your role was a counter for high powered roles in the game and it was mechanically anti-town. Full stop.

Does this matter? No. Because regardless of Varsoon's intentions, it was still terrible play to use your power on D1. :)

Pedit: I am not. I downloaded it...and realized I'm lazy. :p
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Post Post #4797 (isolation #85) » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:01 pm

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Gah you people I deliberately pmd Nahdia to keep from topping this thread cause FA asked us not to, and you all just show up and keep talking in here!!

Yes, RR was the true space dandy. A useless layabout, only good at getting away from his messes. :p
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