Shadowrun Mafia - Game Over

[Koggz]

draft female drug dealer

[Koggz]

VOTE: Firebringer

I will accept this as a vote for Grovyle this time, but in the future, you must vote for the hydra.

[Koggz]

I really don't think jailing people we think are town is a good strategy lol, because we don't know if jail actually protects them from night kills or not, and neutralizing towns strong players roles, seems like a terrible idea.

Forget I suggested it

~Fire

lol

[Koggz]

This game isn't going to be enjoyable. I can already tell.

~Fire

looks like fun from koggz perspective

[Koggz]

This game isn't going to be enjoyable. I can already tell.

~Fire

looks like fun from koggz perspective

Do I know you?
your avi seems familiar.....

fire town
koggz worst player bbmolla seen

[Koggz]

bbmolla has seen alot of bad players, probably don't rememebr that one so well because I hydraed
And Jeanne hosted it.

ANd I try to blck out all jeanne games..
~Fire

no remember much either
this first game in a while
koggz rusty

[Koggz]

Lynched players wind up in prison, rather than killed outright. A maximum of two players may return from the game after being imprisoned. Lynched players do not flip until no one can be released from prison anymore. There may or may not be mechanics that allow people to communicate with those in prison. When no one can escape or be released from prison anymore, all players in prison will flip and will die. All flips are confirmed accurate (no actresses/tricksters, death millers, godfathers, etc).

Ugh, I am pretty sure based on this wording theres one scum at least that can escape jail, I also don't know how released works, I am guessing a town has the ability to release players that have been put in jail?

Prison by lynch or public mechanic vanillaizes a player unless specified.

more wording support possible scum escape role

[Koggz]

Oh, general notice here: anyone with any sort of negative utility aspects to your role, such that targeting you is bad, please make sure you claim it ASAP. I will be very upset with anyone attempting to claim ascetic/miller/pgo/some variant thereof after today.

I had something else to say, but it's completely left my mind.

-Cerb

Pedit: Karnos, there are more town than scum. It is almost certain that an all town composition can be created to deal with ANY mission in this game. Prioritizing certain success over denying scum power is very dumb.

-Cerb

is not being able to walk a straight line a bad thing?

[Koggz]

Cerb, the thing is, his posts are so misguided that there is no

conceivable

way that someone could be this dense/misguided. He is saying things that anyone with any sort of game experience would know aren't true. He's evidently got

some

experience, so he has to know they aren't true, ergo he must be trying to misguide others.

I refuse to believe that someone could be that wrong. It's a ridiculous premise.

Okay, specifics please. You can't make a claim like that without backing it up with some examples.

Here is this will proceed: you quote the exact statement I made that "anyone with any sort of game experience would know aren't true". Then I will show you an example from another game where a town player said essentially the same thing, and then we will proceed to lynch you, because you are obvious scum going for what you think is an easy town lynch.

All of your specific examples of why I am "obviously wrong" are based around your experience in a couple specific games. Not general mafia/werewolf games at all.

Additionally, the "broken combination" was very difficult to get. Even if I was universally town-read, I would still have had to go on an adventure 3-4 times!

It's possible to balance out powerful combinations (not broken) by making them require an extensively large amount of effort to get.

Look at this backpedaling. Earlier you were making it sound like we were doomed forever if a single scum got into a mission. Now you seem to be saying it's not really a big deal, it's only dangerous if scum get to run on 3-4 missions. I think you realized you overplayed your hand, said pretty obvious BS in your eagerness to get me lynched, and now are moving the goalposts.

I'm not backpedaling. I'm simply speaking how it is. Yes, letting scum into missions is bad for a variety of reasons. Yes, it could potentially doom the town (although it's not likely). And yes, the game probably isn't unbalanced enough for one single mission to absolutely doom the town (key word probably).

You're pushing really really hard for my lynch because you don't agree with my mechanics analysis... I have been on the receiving end of some pretty shitty pushes, but this takes the cake.

PEdit: I was immune to the passive neutralizer (because I was ascetic and lynchproof). Just so you know. The strongman was the only counter to my combination.

VOTE: space cowboy

[Koggz]

Koggz, use your words please.

-Cerb

which words?

[Koggz]

koggz vote on space cowboy not naked and not because think they town

[Koggz]

Quoting a post from them is just as bad as a naked vote. Actually, it's worse, because it means you see something wrong with the post, but are refusing to be transparent in your thought process.

Please point out what it is about that post in particular that prompted to vote, as well as any other reasons you have for believing they are scum.

-Cerb

really really

[Koggz]

Quoting a post from them is just as bad as a naked vote. Actually, it's worse, because it means you see something wrong with the post, but are refusing to be transparent in your thought process.

Please point out what it is about that post in particular that prompted to vote, as well as any other reasons you have for believing they are scum.

-Cerb

really really

Really really.

-Cerb

You're pushing

really really

hard for my lynch because you don't agree with my mechanics analysis... I have been on the receiving end of some pretty shitty pushes, but this takes the cake.

[Koggz]

context
post 398 also give bad feels
reasonably rational if there is 1 scum between space cowboy and karnos who you think most likely the scum?

[Koggz]

Everyone, thoughts on likelihood of scum within those separate groupings?

-Cerb

I'd say it's safe to assume there's a scum in both groups.

koggz think this approach is flawed
unless alignment not chosen randomly

[Koggz]

[quote="In post 460, Reasonably Rational]or do you think they're misrepresenting how hard karnos was pushing for their lynch, or do you think they're misrepresenting the reason why karnos is pushing them? Or some other reason?

-Cerb[/quote]
yes
they do not feel genuine
something is off

[Koggz]

koggz nominate firebringer for lieutenant

Alignment was not chosen randomly. Each role we drafted had an alignment attached to it.

schrodinger mislynch is this true?

koggz vote on space cowboy not naked and not because think they town

VOTE: Koggz

I think this is my biggest scum read so far. I can't really tell. Maybe pressure will help though.

-hebi

pressure might get to koggz scum
koggz town not care

[Koggz]

koggz reads
grovyle town
spacecowboy scum
else null for now

note
klingoncelt maybe easier to read later
reasonably rational strong player difficult for us to read even late game

if koggz could investigate alignment would investigate reasonably rational early
but cant so moot

who wants drugs?

[Koggz]

jaereed

Spoiler: yo

[Koggz]

Ahh, that was you? Yup, wasn't sure whether you wanted me to use it on myself so I've not done anything with it yet.

do whatever you want with it
koggz give to you because it has effect only works on party leader

[Koggz]

Ahh, that was you? Yup, wasn't sure whether you wanted me to use it on myself so I've not done anything with it yet.

do whatever you want with it
koggz give to you because it has effect only works on party leader

is not harmful
koggz only ask that you pass it on to the next party leader if you choose not to take it yourself

[Koggz]

I'm objectively the worst D1 player on the site and I have more than 2 reads on D1.

what are your reads right now?

[Koggz]

I'm objectively the worst D1 player on the site and I have more than 2 reads on D1.

what are your reads right now?

Town/Null!Town - ABR, grovyle (tentatively), Reasonably Rational, Yume (tentatively)
Null - Mathblade, Jaereed, D&D (tentatively. Very close to null!scum)
Scum/Null!Scum - You, karnos

Nobody else has posted enough for me to get a solid read on them. It's kinda bullshit.

any reason for koggz being scum read other than omgus?

[Koggz]

Koggz has 2 reads... And has played since the start... I call bullshit on this.

VOTE: Koggz

(if I wasn't already)

Calling out an OMGUS for a read I've already given a reason for is also a reason to vote to lynch someone.

koggz thought your reason was bad joke lol

[Koggz]

guess koggz first 2 posts too obvbait for anyone to bite

[Koggz]

Detective Moonlight is being prodded.

VOTECOUNT 1.04

Space Cowboy (5):

Vedith, Daenerys and Dragons, Jaereed, karnos, Koggz

Grovyle (3):

Yume, Koggz, Worldzmine

Daenerys and Dragons (2):

Albert B. Rampage, Space Cowboy

ABR (1):

PeregrineV

karnos (1):

Space Cowboy, MathBlade

Yume (1):

McMenno

Not Voting (5):

Klingoncelt, detective moonlight, Randomidget ,Reasonably Rational, Grovyle

With 17 Alive, it takes 9 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-08-30 13:00:00)

The Party Leader is

JaeReed (The Face)

The Leader's Party is

Determined by PM and resolved at hammer.

The Lieutenant is (optional)

Determined by PM and resolved at hammer.

The Lieutenant's Party is (optional)

Determined by PM and resolved at hammer.

The Chosen Runs are

Determined by PM and resolved at hammer.

votecount needs work
spacecowboy voting for koggz
koggz not double voter unless someone secretly gave ability
could be other errors maybe too

[Koggz]

@koggz why the naked vote?

because koggz think firebringer town and firebringer only read at that time
because koggz not expect vote for firebringer to count for grovyle
because koggz want to see how entrenched players were in current debate
because koggz curious how people reaction
etc

koggz think you the first to even mention the naked vote other than koggz in post 502
koggz curious why you ask

[Koggz]

Sure thing MC. First off, scummy play comes naturally to me, so a while back I decided capitalize off of it, and what better way to do it than use it to keep me alive?!

The only issue is when stuff like this happens when people try to lynch me because of it...

what about your play has been intentionally scummy?

[Koggz]

Sure thing MC. First off, scummy play comes naturally to me, so a while back I decided capitalize off of it, and what better way to do it than use it to keep me alive?!

The only issue is when stuff like this happens when people try to lynch me because of it...

what about your play has been intentionally scummy?

It's not necessarily "I deliberately be a scumfuck." It's more, "I don't change my natural play, which is to be scummy."

There's a huge difference. One gets you banned (the former), and the other just gets you to L-1 every game (the latter).

banned for using a known gambit listed in wiki?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... 27s_Gambit

is there anything specific about your natural play you find to be scummy?
or do you simply base this idea on past record of regularly being early mislynched or put at l-1 as town?

[Koggz]

Sure thing MC. First off, scummy play comes naturally to me, so a while back I decided capitalize off of it, and what better way to do it than use it to keep me alive?!

The only issue is when stuff like this happens when people try to lynch me because of it...

how do you capitalize off of scummy play to remain alive?
could you please explain?

[Koggz]

@koggz why the naked vote?

because koggz think firebringer town and firebringer only read at that time
because koggz not expect vote for firebringer to count for grovyle
because koggz want to see how entrenched players were in current debate
because koggz curious how people reaction
etc

koggz think you the first to even mention the naked vote other than koggz in post 502
koggz curious why you ask

Because it did not achieve it's goal
Did you get any decent reaction out of it?
Of course if it wasnt even meant to be a vote its nothing. Except for: why didnt you unvote after, if it wasnt even intended to be a vote?

-S

koggz got a big nonreaction
it was also intended as a sort of hello to firebringer
koggz saw no reason to unvote until ready to place vote on a suspected scum unless grovyle became at risk of lynch

[Koggz]

also leaving vote meant more time for possible reaction
and makes non reaction bigger
etc

[Koggz]

@Koggz: it's pretty simple. I do it all the time, though usually it's by deliberately acting in a fashion that doesn't make town like me. Basically, if you're a good late game player, and good at avoiding being mislynched, it's valuable to make yourself appear to be a potential mislynch, so that way scum don't consider shooting you.

Obviously this means it's harder for you to get town to listen to you late game, but if you're confident in the strength of the sort of cases you usually bring, that's not a problem.

That wasnt a very useful scumhunting inquiry though.

-Cerb

koggz first thought was that space cowboy is attempting to avoid nk
koggz see other possibility as well such as baiting scum
koggz have reason for want to hear the reason directly from space cowboy

[Koggz]

the reason koggz ask is because the avoiding nk scenario no longer make sense after spacecowboy claim the playstyle results in quickly becoming entirely townread

[Koggz]

the reason koggz ask is because the avoiding nk scenario no longer make sense after spacecowboy claim the playstyle results in quickly becoming entirely townread

You know, that's a valid point...my style is meant to keep me as a "mislynch" until mid-late game.

BUT again, a discussion about the way DA views his play styles effects isn't really relevant to anything, I don't believe...unless you have something to say about why this matters?

-Cerb

post 607 cleared things up enough so that koggz finished in this line of questioning
if space cowboy had claimed avoiding nk as primary reason the dissonance would cause more suspicion
but as resolved questioning leans more towards null
leaving only initial reasoning for vote remaining on space cowboy for now

[Koggz]

jaereed just moved into my town reads

[Koggz]

Umm, aside from Math and Grovyle, all of those are generally universally townread...

I don't see how that readlist could catapult him to town.

Which makes me suspicious...

not townreading jaereed because of the names on jaereed read list

Thank you sir numbers. Interesting the spread of numbers, but that was probably dangerous to do, as it's a safe assumption that the low stats roles make up for their stats in other abilities... So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise. However, that's to say nothing about your reads on them, which should always be paramount. But if you townread them, and you've got a protective role, then they're likely a good choice.

koggz not like this post

[Koggz]

1. Then you should probably explain the read, because the only post he made since your last post was that readlist...

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

But of course I probably sound like some condescending jerk who thinks that they are above everyone else. So what do I know?

koggz be more specific then

I won't rank my townreads. I'll list them in order of how much information I feel I've given as to my reasonings for why they're townreads, though.

like this
is pro town behavior

So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise.

not like this


also

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

more exaggeration
koggz have zero problem with mechanics/setup speculation

[Koggz]

1. Then you should probably explain the read, because the only post he made since your last post was that readlist...

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

But of course I probably sound like some condescending jerk who thinks that they are above everyone else. So what do I know?

koggz be more specific then

I won't rank my townreads. I'll list them in order of how much information I feel I've given as to my reasonings for why they're townreads, though.

like this
is pro town behavior

So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise.

not like this


also

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

more exaggeration
koggz have zero problem with mechanics/setup speculation

Math wonder why koggz likes setup spec but then is selective about where they like it being used. Math wonders why Koggz is not responding to more players. This worries Math.

Math is concerned that maybe Cowboy is town lynchbait then Koggz is scum.

Any particular reason for the third person talk Koggz? Would Koggz prefer a specific pronoun?

why you think koggz likes or does not like setup spec?
koggz only say have no problem with setup spec
nothing koggz has liked or disliked about any post this game has anything to do with setup spec

[Koggz]

I would like all people who can view the matrix/astral pt to claim this, please

koggz could choose to participate in either pt
instead chose to gift something special to jaereed

[Koggz]

Everyone, thoughts on likelihood of scum within those separate groupings?

-Cerb

I'd say it's safe to assume there's a scum in both groups.

koggz think this approach is flawed
unless alignment not chosen randomly

Because Koggz participate in setup spec in a small way and Koggz says they have no problem with it. Ergo Koggz likes setup spec. Koggz doesn't have to say certain words to leave an impression.

@KlingonCelt -- Neither is yours. In this case it is my perception of you and I am that arbiter. Right now you are not lurking. Before you were.

And I do not expect that no. I wanted to see how you responded to that question because IMHO you respond to pressure as town and scum as different alignments.

you think koggz like setup spec because koggz respond to reasonably rational question?
why the leap to assume koggz like setup spec?
why the further leap to assume koggz is selective about where koggz like it being used?

koggz neither like nor dislike setup speculation

[Koggz]

Math thinks Koggz likes setup spec because of how they responded not because they did.

It is not a leap. If Math says they have zero problems with cheese and then is seen eating cheese, it is therefore a logical conclusion math likes cheese. Similarly you did the same. The last question Math does not follow.

it is more like koggz asking if you believe in god and then if you give an answer assuming you like to talk about religion

anyways
math assumptions about koggz were wrong
math explanation feels dishonest

Math wonder why koggz likes setup spec but then is selective about where they like it being used. Math wonders why Koggz is not responding to more players. This worries Math.

Math is concerned that maybe Cowboy is town lynchbait then Koggz is scum.

Any particular reason for the third person talk Koggz? Would Koggz prefer a specific pronoun?

show where koggz is selective about like and not like setup speculation
show where someone ask koggz question and koggz refuse to respond

math is in koggz scum pile right under space cowboy

[Koggz]

@Koggz Math cannot show what Math did not say. Math merely stated their perceptions.

Math wonder why koggz likes setup spec but then is selective about where they like it being used.

where did you perceive koggz being selective about like and not like setup speculation?

Koggz has answered all questions. Again math did not imply you didn't.

Math wonders why Koggz is not responding to more players.

[Koggz]

Umm, aside from Math and Grovyle, all of those are generally universally townread...

I don't see how that readlist could catapult him to town.

Which makes me suspicious...

not townreading jaereed because of the names on jaereed read list

Thank you sir numbers. Interesting the spread of numbers, but that was probably dangerous to do, as it's a safe assumption that the low stats roles make up for their stats in other abilities... So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise. However, that's to say nothing about your reads on them, which should always be paramount. But if you townread them, and you've got a protective role, then they're likely a good choice.

koggz not like this post

Here is an example for Koggz.
Koggz says they don't like Cowboy's post that was nothing but mechanics. So why does Koggz think it is bad for Cowboy to do yet has zero problems with it?

Math is phone posting getting to other quote from Koggz in a second.

koggz was more specific which part of post is not liked in post 629

So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise.

not like this

even more specifically koggz not like space cowboy directing protection roles

koggz have zero problem with mechanics/setup speculation

nothing koggz has liked or disliked about any post this game has anything to do with setup spec

[Koggz]

Koggz has answered all questions. Again math did not imply you didn't.

Math wonders why Koggz is not responding to more players.

Koggz not responding doesn't mean not answering all questions. It means Math wonders where your natural responses are to events in thread. Math doesn't see any.

koggz comment when have something to say
koggz respond when asked something

[Koggz]

Koggz has answered all questions. Again math did not imply you didn't.

Math wonders why Koggz is not responding to more players.

Koggz not responding doesn't mean not answering all questions. It means Math wonders where your natural responses are to events in thread. Math doesn't see any.

koggz comment when have something to say
koggz respond when asked something

Math says they want you to be more proactive instead of reactive. This is Math's point.

Math wonders if they are an attempted counter wagon as Space Cowboy picks up steam.

if you want koggz to comment when nothing to say then better ask questions
if comment when have something to say not good enough then fuck you asshole

[Koggz]

oh no, I seem to have slipped it up

what an unfortunate development

VOTE: mcmenno
koggz can relate since lost previous scum game due to pt slip
koggz may have been doomed regardless but pt slip put nail in coffin

Edit due to rules violation - That quote that was present did not come from the main thread. I refuse to state or imply where it may have came from.
Edit 2: Restored quote. I made a mistake. I thought it was, but it was not.
~Titus

[Koggz]

So here is the thing. Without breaking the rules I can't quote directly what he said in the matrix, but I can say what he said is started to look incredibly weird.

So he posts something along the lines of: 'oh no I slipped, give me advice to dodge the wagon' and then he calls out space cowboy by name.

And then her makes another post claiming the previous post was accidentally posted in the wrong pt.


So, not just scummy, he would have to be really bad scum or perhaps scum pissed off at his teammates, or throwing the game to post anything like that. I don't know the player, maybe someone who has played with him before can speak about whether or not he is likely to make such a grave error and not just slip himself, but also call out a scum buddy.

TBH, it sounds like a fool's tactic. Is there any chance that the game could include a role that has a win condition based on being sent to prison on day 1? Or, maybe I am just reading too much into it, maybe the first slip was real and this is just some lame misdirect slip.

I dunno. If there is some town incentive behind such a gambit I don't see it.

Well, I am in no PT right now. Not matrix, not astral, and certainly not a scum PT. He is definitely trying to frame me, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop falling for it.

He's a scumfuck who is trying to frame us.

VOTE: Mcmenno

do you think mcmenno intentional slip to frame you?
or do you think he first accident slipped then tried to make the most of it by bringing a town down with him?

[Koggz]

Well, I am in no PT right now. Not matrix, not astral, and certainly not a scum PT.

space cowboy is occult investigator
occult investigator has astral access
or is koggz misread your role or the chart in post 3?

[Koggz]

Well, I am in no PT right now. Not matrix, not astral, and certainly not a scum PT.

space cowboy is occult investigator
occult investigator has astral access
or is koggz misread your role or the chart in post 3?

Nope. I start with access to neither, but I can get access to both.

apologies
was misread chart due to cutoff

Spoiler: chart

[Koggz]

I kind of think Cerb is scum in this game.

~Fire

I kind of agree.

why?

[Koggz]

True, but they'd go for someone who people would believe was part of the scumteam with them. That leaves only a few people. (additionally, our wagon had shrunk by a sizable amount. I mean look at it, it's only 4 people now. It's shrunk by half. It was probably a last-ditch effort to reignite it)

you were 2 votes away from lynch
then the pts slip happened in main thread
then math move vote from you to mcmenno
then detective moonlight report the slip happened in matrix pt
then koggz and karnos move vote from you to mcmenno

[Koggz]

koggz think detective moonlight scum
maybe mcmenno space cowboy detecive moonlight scum team

at very first glance detective moonlight got slight town cred for reporting slip
then koggz look at detective moonlight iso and feels off
look at detective moonlight interactions particularly with mcmenno and space cowboy

would go into more detail but koggz falling asleep so will have to wait
will do reread and iso analyze when wake up

[Koggz]

ok time to look at detective moonlight iso for any spacecowboy and mcmenno interactions

As someone said before, cowboy's tone is scummy af. I read a lot based bon tone, but i have the feeling that it will fail for most people here. I havent seen any decent case yet on them though?

-------

Wait
@D&D you say cowboy is lynchbait and then proceed to vote? Since when is lynchbait a scumtell?

-------

Scumreads so far are vedith, grovyle and to a lesser extent cowboy and D&D
Let me try to start a wagon
VOTE: grovyle

-S

spacecowboy tone scummy af but sees no decent case
since when is lynchbait scumtell seems fair defense but still defense of spacecowboy
spacecowboy lesser scumread behind vedith and grovyle

Like i also said, tone isd probably worth shit in this game
And i also asked for some kind of case because their actions dont seem scummy to me. I find some other player's action way more alarming.

Why do you scumread them, apart from tone?

-S

tone worth shit
spacecowboy actions not seem scummy

Thank you sir numbers. Interesting the spread of numbers, but that was probably dangerous to do, as it's a safe assumption that the low stats roles make up for their stats in other abilities... So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise. However, that's to say nothing about your reads on them, which should always be paramount. But if you townread them, and you've got a protective role, then they're likely a good choice.

Same question i asked to RR. Why?

-S

@RR I think that its a bad comment to make, as either alignment. But its also not nonsensical. If it comes from scum it could be a try to buddy, if it comes from town its just baiting scum to the players he mentioned. Both are wrong and should be questioned.
So i would have pointed it out, regardless of who said it. And yes, if it really were you who said that it was more worrying, since im townreading you while i have no clue about cowboy.

Also i believe 21 pages with content is very poor for a 17 player game. I made a catch up post and only koggz and D&D mentioned some part of it. Where is the discussion? Ask away, attack, whatever?

-S

Horrible post.

As I posted earlier I was at work. Not even waiting 24 hours before going "hey where's the replies?" is bad. Furthermore if you think something is a horrible comment as either alignment what makes you town read them?

Lastly in your catchup post you said "Let me try to start a wagon...." And the person you try to wagon isn't in your scumreads list and you say Cowboy's posts are scummy as fuck.

Karnos, Space Cowboy, DM all aligned?

Yes all of us are aligned. I dont think scum aligned, though.

I think you should also read a bit more. I never said it was AI, i said it was a bad move. I dont even see the scum motive behind saying such things after a bit of thinking.

I am pretty sure the person i voted for was in my list. Certain, even. It also was a reaction test because they seem to be widely townread when, imo, none of their actions warrant a townread like this, and that makes me suspicious. But, of course, they havent even posted yet.
I said cowboy's

tone

was scummy af. I never said their actions were, which is why i'm having problems with reading them. I also asked for a case on them, for that same reason. Do you have any?

-S

says karnos spacecowboy and self all aligned
doesnt think scum aligned???????
spacecowboy has scummy af tone but not scummy actions
asks for case on spacecowboy

@dm: I don't believe it was a nonsensical comment to make either, I was merely giving an example of a reason why a post might be concerning coming from one slot while being unremarkable coming from another.

Walk me through the "no clue about cowboy". He's easily one of the slots with the most actual content to go off of.

Also, your catchup post didn't register for me at all. As in, there was nothing stated in it that made me want to ask you specific questions on the first read.

-Cerb

So me questioning grovyle is okay? I hoped to get more reactions out of that, tbh.

I have no clue about cowboy as in: their actions are not scummy and possibly slightly townie. I dislike their tone and i find their tone scummy. That is why i doubt. Ill iso them if i have more time. Id also like some kind of case on them because im really not seeing it right now. It being town-ness or scummy-ness.

-S

spacecowboy actions possibly slightly townie now
still scummy tone

does not see case on them for town or scum
but wait didnt you just say in 649 that you and space cowboy share alignment?

he would be okay with a worldzmine or d&d or detective moonlight lynch

Why is this?


Okay so i dont like the fact that grovyle avoids us and then asks someone else for a read on us.

Im starting to like koggz more and more. Koggz is definitely town.

@everyone why is cowboy scum? I genuinely dont see why theyre at L-2 already.
@jaereed wtf is the point of the ring? It just allows you to put a post restriction on someone? Wicked. And for how long will this nightmare last?
@worldzmine talk me through some of your reads please. Preferably the cowboy one in detail.

Pedit
@mathblade why is menno scum?

-S

koggz definitely town? definitely??? where this read come from? you have inside info?
does not see why spacecowboy at l2?

first time to mention mcmenno at all
note this comes 2 posts after math post 767

Spoiler: math767

The Great and Powerful Trixie puts on the ring.

The one ring to rule all pronouns.

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know why you picked them.

The Great and Powerful Trixie finds that D&D is right about me being town but reasoning flawed. The Great and Powerful Trixie tries to poke everyone regardless of The Great and Powerful Trixie's alignment.

@McMenno - Will you post something soon? Or just ask for PT claims? *glares* The Great and Powerful Trixie is worried about McMenno.

I'm sorry, I've retreated into my pts to discuss the next course of action with my buddies

the great and powerful mcmenno thinks a space cowboy lynch is very good today indeed

he would not lynch mathblade or jaereed or karnos or grovyle

he would be okay with a worldzmine or d&d or detective moonlight lynch

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know about that abbreviation.

my little pony friendship is magic

VOTE: McMenno

The great and powerful Trixie is sad. The Great and Powerful Trixie has no buddies but you have buddies ergo you be scum. The Great and Powerful Trixie wanted you to be town.

Basically
I found menno's ''who is in what PT'' definitely fishy because its rolefishing and it looks bad with this:

All kills/heals must specify which PT a kill or heal is taking place in.

He also just posted in the matrix pt as if he was posting in a scum pt and then 'fixed' by saying it was the wrong pt. This was right after his post that implied multiple pt's.
I know menno to be a memer so i dont mind that last part, i find the first to be more worrying.

Before moving votes, id like to hear from grovyle.

-S


Pedit: cowboy stop slipping and fight your stuff in your hydra pt. Its useless to see you argue here.

is first to point out the matrix slip
but if detective moonlight is scum it makes sense to out the slip first because it will come out sooner or later anyways
and yet leaves vote on grovyle

Basically
I found menno's ''who is in what PT'' definitely fishy because its rolefishing and it looks bad with this:

All kills/heals must specify which PT a kill or heal is taking place in.

He also just posted in the matrix pt as if he was posting in a scum pt and then 'fixed' by saying it was the wrong pt. This was right after his post that implied multiple pt's.
I know menno to be a memer so i dont mind that last part, i find the first to be more worrying.

Before moving votes, id like to hear from grovyle.

-S


Pedit: cowboy stop slipping and fight your stuff in your hydra pt. Its useless to see you argue here.

So, we have confirmation that he has multiple PT's. 100%.

We don't know what these PT's are.

How did the post he made sound like it was intended for a scum PT?

-Cerb

Im not allowed to quote but he said that he slipped and asked cowboy to help
Yet

oh no, I seem to have slipped it up

what an unfortunate development

I believe it was just a meme. A terrible one, but a meme. That does not change my opinion on the other points i made. Still waiting for grovyle, i dont like their semi lurking.

-S

meme?
attempt defending mcmenno
never changes vote

[Koggz]

Koggz, you believe scum had two posting members of the Matrix PT at game start?

-Cerb

no idea
why not?
koggz not have good mod meta nor theme knowledge so this sort of thing not factor into koggz hunting

koggz prefer to hunt primarily by motive analysis

[Koggz]

forgot to
VOTE: mcmenno
l-3

[Koggz]

The Great and Powerful Trixie must go to work.

VOTE: McMenno

Putting The Great and Powerful Trixie's vote back til I can come back and read what happened.

the great and powerful trixie broke post restriction

[Koggz]

koggz think it would be funny to have post restriction where player can only speak in palindromes
would be a bit too evil and restrictive though

[Koggz]

in mcmenno space cowboy both scum scenario
sending partner to jail may not make sense on surface
but perhaps deeper look can make some sense of things
here is one possible explanation

mcmenno realizes both mcmenno and spacecowboy are caught because of slip
in desperation caught scum more likely to go for hail mary type strategy
so in desperation mcmenno gets trolly to add confusion which is proper scum play after scum slip

without any mechanic to return from jail then killing partner makes zero sense
however prison break mechanic and no flip at lynch changes everything
it gives caughtscum a longshot but at least possible out

exactly because it seems unlikely on the surface to dayvig his partner
town may decide mcmenno and space cowboy cant share alignment
at which point town could attempt to rescue 1 of them
then because of belief they cant share alignment when the jailed scum does flip scum the rescued scum could be wrongfully cleared to coast into win

so the motive behind vig partner would be a desperate attempt to clear a caughtscum

[Koggz]

I just realized there could be an argument to the contrary where it could be argued that I was attempting some gambit to make it just *look* like I had no clue what was going on to clear myself. My only answers to something like that is that it's something I don't think I'd be able to pull off and wouldn't try as a result, Occam's Razor where the simplest answer is probably the truth, and the progression of my posts showing my thinking on all these subjects changing on the fly as I caught up and responded. Bed time for me now.

perhaps is not so wise to invoke ockhams razor or wifom
if scum is aware or newtons flaming laser sword
how hard would it be to dodge?
but then wifom can be invoked into infinite regression mindfuck

koggz tend to attempt avoid thinking too deeply into such things because is very not healthy for koggz mental state

koggz throwed off enough without logic bomb make koggz head splode
so please dont

[Koggz]

I just realized there could be an argument to the contrary where it could be argued that I was attempting some gambit to make it just *look* like I had no clue what was going on to clear myself. My only answers to something like that is that it's something I don't think I'd be able to pull off and wouldn't try as a result, Occam's Razor where the simplest answer is probably the truth, and the progression of my posts showing my thinking on all these subjects changing on the fly as I caught up and responded. Bed time for me now.

perhaps is not so wise to invoke ockhams razor or wifom
if scum is aware

of

newtons flaming laser sword
how hard would it be to dodge?
but then wifom can be invoked into infinite regression mindfuck

koggz tend to attempt avoid thinking too deeply into such things because is very not healthy for koggz mental state

koggz throwed off enough without logic bomb make koggz head splode
so please dont

fixed typo

[Koggz]

I don't have detailed thoughts because I'm phoneposting... prepare to be disappointed I suppose

I think jeaereed mathblade are town... koggz might be a sc buddy

what was your reason for listing koggz as definite town?

[Koggz]

I don't have detailed thoughts because I'm phoneposting... prepare to be disappointed I suppose

I think jeaereed mathblade are town... koggz might be a sc buddy

what was your reason for listing koggz as definite town?

sry misread name
would like detective moonlight to answer though

[Koggz]

gah the logic bombs
koggz need take break to clear mind
stuff seriously not good for mental health

[Koggz]

the drug koggz give to jaereed if eaten causes to be loud at night and additionally if party leader then leader decision is also loud
strong town lean on jaereed
would say the cop on karnos confirms as town but not quite because koggz suspect we may be playing multiball

karnos scum
at least 1 of and possibly both spacecowboy mcmenno are likely scum
still have bad feels about detective moonlight
bad feels from worldzmine also
leaving all other players null to town lean
how many scum you guys think we are looking for?
if multiball koggz can maybe see 4 scum in teams of 2? not sure so asking for thoughts

Prison
Lynched players wind up in prison, rather than killed outright. A maximum of two players may return from the game after being imprisoned. Lynched players do not flip until no one can be released from prison anymore. There may or may not be mechanics that allow people to communicate with those in prison. When no one can escape or be released from prison anymore, all players in prison will flip and will die. All flips are confirmed accurate (no actresses/tricksters, death millers, godfathers, etc).

this makes koggz thinking
no flips until both of the up to 2 escapes are used
so unless both escapes used they just stay there forever?
wording with 50% chance of death during prison break makes koggz suspect mass escape maybe possible

this makes koggz think if town has prison escape power maybe we should use soon as possible?
but not want to release a scum obviously
so koggz have idea on how to possibly gain a tempo
koggz can sneak into prison to deliver drugs to an inmate but will be stuck in prison until following night and has 50% chance of death if prison break occurs
what if koggz sneak in and town release koggz?
not sure if 50% chance of death counts if koggz is the one leaving
thoughts?

koggz also have the ability to grant a player full access to either matrix or astral pt for unspecified amount of time and with some class limitations depending on which pt
or night only ability koggz can set up a secure line of communication pt between any 2 players
if someone wants for this please speak up

would vote for karnos but there is no rush and think we should proceed carefully
both grovyle and drixx died last night
so are we to assume with both mcmeeno and spacecowboy locked up scum had 2 nightkills?
or would a town like to admit a misfire?

[Koggz]

Pedit: koggz why fullclaim?
Although the prison thing is interesting. It might just not be safe.

koggz did not fullclaim
koggz claimed relevant abilities when koggz think could be useful because want others opinion on how to proceed

[Koggz]

Pedit: koggz why fullclaim?
Although the prison thing is interesting. It might just not be safe.

koggz did not fullclaim
koggz claimed relevant abilities when koggz think could be useful because want others opinion on how to proceed

also the alternative to burning a release power on koggz sneaking into jail
is to at some point waste a lynch on a town just to bail them out else the jailed scum will never flip?
with drixx gone we doubt a third town will have ability to sneak into jail

additionally while koggz ability at least allows us to smuggle drugs into jail
we see no other utility for drixx ability other than to burn a jailbreak ability

we could perhaps give an inmate a final chance to claim innocence via matrix or pt access
if convincing enough can let koggz sneak out of jail the next night if town opts to burn a prisonbreak ability on spacecowboy or mcmenno instead
though koggz still scum read them both

[Koggz]

via matrix astral or secure 2 person pt access*

[Koggz]

If we do choose to go with the koggz jailbreak plan
we can also do it without the jailbreaker having to claim
by simply having everyone agree to the plan we can assume that if town can break koggz out it will happen
this way wont be roleblocked etc
and if no town has jailbreak or if jailbreaker for some reason chooses not to use ability then koggz will exit jail naturally

[Koggz]

why the rush to lynch? could someone please unvote?

[Koggz]

About the jail plan, The great and powerful trixie sees some benefit in it to stop scum from escaping but the great and powerful trixie is concerned that if we put people the town townreads in jail then they may not make it out. The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks it should be the decision of the person of whom we send to jail. The great and powerful trixie wishes to think a bit more on the way to the great and powerful trixie's stable (home).

koggz put idea on table because is willing to take the risk

The Great and Powerful Trixie is becoming suspicious of koggz though. Why would a scum player cop their buddy? This does not compute for the Great and Powerful Trixie. Why would JaeReed only be a lean?

possible multiball
having 2 nightkills and the whole lonestar and aztechnology thing both seem to point to the possibility

strong town lean on jaereed
would say the cop on karnos confirms as town but not quite because koggz suspect we may be playing multiball

did you read "would say the cop on karnos confirms as town" and then not read what koggz say immediately after?

The Great and Powerful Trixie Bucks their legs upwards and neighs loudly begging for an explanation of why vigging Karnos is a good idea.

what is your objection to vigging karnos?
koggz can see no town motive to choose lynch over vig the cop guilty considering things like escape and no flip on lynch
the only motive koggz can see to not want karnos dead rather than in jail is if you do not want karnos flip shown for some reason

The Great and Powerful Trixie is curious as to if confirmed scum Karnos is telling the truth though. The Great and Powerful Trixie supposes Koggz could confirm? The Great and Powerful Trixie says it couldn't hurt to keep hearing the story.

confirm what?

[Koggz]

@everyone
if only 1 of spacecowboy and mcmenno is scum
who do you think is more likely to be the town?

[Koggz]

The Great and Powerful Trixie is becoming suspicious of koggz though. Why would a scum player cop their buddy? This does not compute for the Great and Powerful Trixie. Why would JaeReed only be a lean?

possible multiball
having 2 nightkills and the whole lonestar and aztechnology thing both seem to point to the possibility

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks multiball possible however thinks based on people's play and mechanics single ball more likely. As mentioned before The Great and Powerful Trixie will consider multiball overnight.

strong town lean on jaereed
would say the cop on karnos confirms as town but not quite because koggz suspect we may be playing multiball

did you read "would say the cop on karnos confirms as town" and then not read what koggz say immediately after?

Again. In the Great and Powerful Trixie's humble opinion this is single ball but will consider multiball overnight.

you avoided koggz question did you read "would say the cop on karnos confirms as town" and then not read what koggz say immediately after?

you say you think we are in singleball for unexplained reasons
fine
but this not explain why you asked "Why would a scum player cop their buddy?"
when koggz reasoning is right there in the same sentence
and has nothing to do with a scum player cop their buddy

[Koggz]

what is your objection to vigging karnos?

Based on the flips this seems to be role madness. Scum could have a blocker or redirector or doctor or .... (this is a Titus game Lord knows what Titus would come up with) which lets him live. The only way to guarantee his death is to lynch him. Besides when no more players could escape prison Karnos will flip anyway. If we didn't lynch scumreads/firms on the fear of not receiving a flip, if single ball scum they will control this game quickly. If it is multiball scum then The Great and Powerful Trixie would think that each scum team would not know if the other scum team would be gone yet. The prison would be as much a hindrance as a help. The Great and Powerful Trixie would think this make things insane for scum in role madness. Making things harder for scum is what The Great and Powerful Trixie does.

so much bad vibe from this post and you lately its like you want koggz to scumread you

so you objections are that he might not die if vigged and because the other scum team will know who he is???
VOTE: mathblade
if he does not die from vig then lynch
he is a cop guilty you think the other scum team can not see the cop guilty?

any other objections to vigging karnos?

If Karnos was lying earlier about what people are supposedly saying in prison chat. The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks Karnos could be making it up to try to survive.

koggz can not see prison chat without being locked up

[Koggz]

Koggz your setup of PTs ability... Does that have to be during the day phase or can you instantaneously set it up during night phase if you wanted to?

the 2 person pt thing is night only
everything else is day or night

[Koggz]

@Koggz Is it one shot? Does it happen immediately when you send in the action at night or do you have to queue it up? For example, if someone was sent to prison, and broke out during the night phase, would you be able to set them up with a PT during that night phase after they broke out?

none of this is specified in role pm so we assume not 1 shot but dont know about order
perhaps night options happen in the order they are placed? dont know
questions have been forwarded to mod

[Koggz]

town needs information
karnos vig gives more information than karnos lynch
if scum interfere with vig this also gives information and we can lynch after
we cant stop seeking information for town just because scum will also be informed

now that math not drunkposting
care to try again to explain how you got from koggz saying think jareed town and would be confirmed if not for multiball
to you inserting the weird copping the buddy thing?

on a side not koggz was wrong about the confirmed town if not for multiball thing anyways
at the time koggz had not considered framer nor the fact that cop target was not decided by jaereed alone
koggz still think jaereed town regardless just not confirmed

[Koggz]

may or may not have to v/la until thursday
will know for sure later today

[Koggz]

koggz can set up the 2 person secure line unlimited times once per night
as far as koggz knows only the 2 people will be able to see or use the secure line
night actions occur based on natural action resolution unless some ability specifies otherwise

also the v/la situation has most likely been avoided

[Koggz]

SC was vigged, why did he go to jail as a result instead of flipping? This won't also happen with a karnos vig? What am I missing/not understanding here?

The night kills happening at night are flipping. My guess is since it was a day vig it would act like a lynch?

most likely this depends on how the vig ability is worded

[Koggz]

No. I don't. I think you have played with me enough that either a) you are derping and drinking Blue Moon or B) You're scum. I don't think you are scum so the most likely option is you are derping. So I think it is reasonable for someone who doesn't know me to not townread me yet. However you I think should have a strong indication I am town.

if you are scum in a game should someone who knows you be able to tell you are scum?

[Koggz]

was the copping naturally public?
koggz assumed cop was public due to the drugs given to jaereed
assuming jaereed used the drugs

only koggz knew the drugs effect until d2

[Koggz]

night actions occur based on natural action resolution

unless some ability specifies otherwise

not a direct quote obviously
but this was the answer koggz get from mod

so if scum has an ability which can specifically target missions
it would trump natural action resolution order

[Koggz]

Look at my posts near the end of D1. I had *no clue* what was going on and was answering interesting post in real time. My thoughts continually changed as I got more caught up and the progression of my thoughts were plainly laid out. If I was scum I wouldn't of did that because I would of obviously caught up with all the game changing things that happened in the scum thread before posting.

It shows clearly that I'm uniformed and that points to one alignment and one alignment only--

town

.

The series of posts you made is easy to fake and not a "townslip" by any means (plus, uninformed could just mean you deliberately didn't read scumchat first). Then you keep trying to push your own posts as townslips when they're not, which is different than if someone else pointed it out and was townreading you for that reason and then pushed it. But you're the one pushing it to be confirming you as town so I'm less inclined to believe it. And it's getting pretty annoying when that's all you can talk about.

-Daenerys

this yes
him pointing out his not townslips makes koggz suspicious

[Koggz]

Don't get me started on that ring JaeReed.

That is quite possibly one of the hardest post restrictions I have ever seen. Thank God that was loud or my posting would have made no sense at all. If I ever pass this restriction I am going to make a much simpler something. Still no idea what.

Ahahaha sorry <3 I didn't realize it would be that hard when I decided to do it. I was mostly...trying to annoy people >.> Which is also why I took the jazz because I figured my actions as party leader being loud would be annoying to people too xP

I am quite possibly one of the worst people xP I'm sorry it culminated in ABR not paying attention to you

how did you know you would be loud?

[Koggz]

Arson and demolitions

Since most of the players im taking are good at the things i think are needed

Mathblade-PV-koggz go on arson
Me, jae and abr on demolitions.

Can i submit that?

No. Do not take mathblade.

She is posting like scum. I don't have time to elaborate

koggz agree not bring mathblade

[Koggz]

albert b rampage
what is your read on jaereed?

[Koggz]

RE: Potential for scum!Math - Can someone explain why? How?

Please?

@Klingon We didn't lynch Space Cowboy, Menno sent him to jail of his own accord, and then I think Menno was policy lynched for his gambits. The plan is to get us halfway towards our condition to get flips from prison already. There are two people with the ability to break out of prison and I'm one of them. Once no one has the potential to break out anymore (as in the people with the abilities are either dead or used them) then we get flips from prison.
Which means I will either need to die or be lynched to escape at some stage. We can hold off but keep in mind it'll be the only thing that will keep us from getting flips once the prison break happens (assuming someone escapes with that).

SMUGGLER'S PARADISE - YOU MAY SMUGGLE DRUGS INTO THE PRISON ONCE PER GAME. A PRISONER MUST BE GIVEN DRUGS. YOU ARE STUCK UNTIL THE END OF THE FOLLOWING NIGHTPHASE. YOU HAVE A 50% CHANCE OF DYING IF A PRISON BREAK OCCURS WHILE YOU ARE SMUGGLING DRUGS.

wonder if koggz ability to sneak in and out of jail counts as the other requirement for flips?
can you confirm or deny?

[Koggz]

bah very sorry!