Shadowrun Mafia - Game Over

[Reasonably Rational]

JaeReed: Have you made your decisions regarding the mission(s)? I don't want details about your choices, I just want to know whether or not I should yell at people who attempt to end the day.

-Cerb

[Klingoncelt]

..

You are a low content player. Always.

You are rarely around, and you do not post very much when you are around. Always.

These are not necessarily bad things, but they are things lurkers do. Just because you are not attempting to lurk, it does not mean that your play isn't analogous to that of lurkers.

Why are you so offended by someone choosing to use a shorthand for describing your play style?

-Cerb

Yes, I'm always a low-content player.

Deal.

It's better that I keep my low content limited to a few sentences in a few posts as opposed to wallposts of fluff, no?

But that's not what MathBlade said.

She said I lurk. Lurk means hang around and not do anything.

I don't do that.

I'll often log into a game and then have a shit-ton of meatworld things to do, so it takes me hours to go through a few pages.

But that's not lurking.

Sometimes I can come in, read through, make my post(s) and split.

That's not lurking.

I don't lurk. I don't have time to lurk.

[Bold Vote Scientist]

Hey, I will be stepping out for a good chunk of tomorrow with limited access.

If an urgent question arises, please do not hesitate to skype me, pm my main or contact Varsoon. I'll be in and out.

VC here.

VOTECOUNT 1.06

Space Cowboy (4):

Vedith, Daenerys and Dragons, karnos, Koggz

Grovyle (3):

Yume, Worldzmine, Detective Moonlight

Daenerys and Dragons (1):

Albert B. Rampage

Vedith (1):

PeregrineV

karnos (1):

MathBlade, JaeReed

Yume (1):

McMenno

Koggz (1):

Space Cowboy

Mathblade (1):

Klingoncelt

Not Voting (3):

Randomidget, Reasonably Rational, Grovyle

With 17 Alive, it takes 9 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-08-30 13:00:00)

The Party Leader is

JaeReed (The Face)

The Leader's Party is

Determined by PM and resolved at hammer.

The Lieutenant is (optional)

Determined by PM and resolved at hammer.

The Lieutenant's Party is (optional)

Determined by PM and resolved at hammer.

The Chosen Runs are

Determined by PM and resolved at hammer.

[Klingoncelt]

JaeReed: Have you made your decisions regarding the mission(s)? I don't want details about your choices, I just want to know whether or not I should yell at people who attempt to end the day.

-Cerb

We have 10 days until deadline. Anyone trying to end the Day this early should be yelled at regardless of JaeReed's decisions.

[Koggz]

1. Then you should probably explain the read, because the only post he made since your last post was that readlist...

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

But of course I probably sound like some condescending jerk who thinks that they are above everyone else. So what do I know?

koggz be more specific then

I won't rank my townreads. I'll list them in order of how much information I feel I've given as to my reasonings for why they're townreads, though.

like this
is pro town behavior

So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise.

not like this


also

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

more exaggeration
koggz have zero problem with mechanics/setup speculation

[JaeReed]

@RR I've put in placeholders just in case, but there's some further tweaking I'd like to do.

[Detective Moonlight]

@RR there are like 5 posts in the matrix pt. So far i nullread the ppl in there
But i kinda dislike the way you implied that we are most likely a good PR because of low stats. If you want just openly ask scum to kill us?
Im not going to say if we have a lot of power or not for obvious reasons, but did it ever cross your mind that we have low stats because we have rasther rare stats? Maybe the combination of our stats is needed often? There are so many possibilities, why point out that single one that is not good for us?

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR there are like 5 posts in the matrix pt. So far i nullread the ppl in there
But i kinda dislike the way you implied that we are most likely a good PR because of low stats. If you want just openly ask scum to kill us?
Im not going to say if we have a lot of power or not for obvious reasons, but did it ever cross your mind that we have low stats because we have rasther rare stats? Maybe the combination of our stats is needed often? There are so many possibilities, why point out that single one that is not good for us?

I didn't imply anything. I noted the data ( as I'm sure *someone* on the scum team was smart enough to do already) and shared the numbers, very deliberately avoiding mentioning the obvious possibility that your role has powers to make up for the low stats.

It was Space Cowboy who came along and actually pointed out that possibility while ignoring all others (such as the fact that your role may have some unique utility on missions, or some other effect that makes up for the low stats).

Why did you believe I was the one who noted that? Do you still dislike that it was mentioned, regardless of who actually brought it up?

-Cerb

[Space Cowboy]

Ok, I'll give my two cents on the state of the game.

Our"wagon" (really just the case on us in general) is predominantly scum-driven. Regardless of whether you think we're town or scum, you can't deny that the fact that most of the ~15 pages of the game has been devoted to attacking us is anti-town. Focusing on one person will not find the scum team. At best, it finds one person. At worst, you've wasted an entire day witch-hunting a single town.

The pace of this game really needs to change. And if, at the end of the day, you decide we are still a good lynch, so be it, but at the current pace, you will have to start from scratch again tomorrow.

PEdit: Which is a very serious problem, PV

Why would any wagon on Day 1 be predominately Scum-driven?

Any port in a storm, Scum will jump on any wagon that looks viable on Day 1.

Scum drive wagons on players that pose a threat to them - players are rarely a threat on Day 1.

Well, you do have 2 strong lategame players in this hydra...

[Daenerys and Dragons]

I had a big multiquote then it disappeared somehow q.q
I'll just put my thoughts here

RR - at the time of your comment that said "I only make early pushes when there's massive contradictions but no one is talking" there were nearly 20 pages. How is that "no one talking"?

I didn't mind Grovyle's Koggz's vote but Space Cowboy following them on it was really awful.
Koggz is a town lean for me
Also lean town on PV
-dragons

15 pages would be more accurate, and the majority of that was groyle and space cowboy, with a bit of JaeReed and myself, and it was largely setup and mechanic discussion.

So yes, that is no one talking.

-Cerb

And you townread everyone who was posting during that time?

-dragons

[Detective Moonlight]

Okay i apologise, i thought it was part of your analysis, but that wasnt you...
Of course i dislike it regardless of who mentioned it. Why would it make any difference?

Thank you sir numbers. Interesting the spread of numbers, but that was probably dangerous to do, as it's a safe assumption that the low stats roles make up for their stats in other abilities... So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise. However, that's to say nothing about your reads on them, which should always be paramount. But if you townread them, and you've got a protective role, then they're likely a good choice.

Same question i asked to RR. Why?

-S

[Detective Moonlight]

First part was @RR, second at cowboy

[Reasonably Rational]

I had a big multiquote then it disappeared somehow q.q
I'll just put my thoughts here

RR - at the time of your comment that said "I only make early pushes when there's massive contradictions but no one is talking" there were nearly 20 pages. How is that "no one talking"?

I didn't mind Grovyle's Koggz's vote but Space Cowboy following them on it was really awful.
Koggz is a town lean for me
Also lean town on PV
-dragons

15 pages would be more accurate, and the majority of that was groyle and space cowboy, with a bit of JaeReed and myself, and it was largely setup and mechanic discussion.

So yes, that is no one talking.

-Cerb

And you townread everyone who was posting during that time?

-dragons

@Mathblade: I forgot to respond to you earlier, but know, I do not have any x must be y for z reasons to suggest at this point, other than agreeing with ABRs point about the lack of scum motivation for Groyvles push on JaeReed.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay i apologise, i thought it was part of your analysis, but that wasnt you...
Of course i dislike it regardless of who mentioned it. Why would it make any difference?

Thank you sir numbers. Interesting the spread of numbers, but that was probably dangerous to do, as it's a safe assumption that the low stats roles make up for their stats in other abilities... So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise. However, that's to say nothing about your reads on them, which should always be paramount. But if you townread them, and you've got a protective role, then they're likely a good choice.

Same question i asked to RR. Why?

-S

It *shouldn't* make a difference, but it's very possible you have different expectations from different players. There are some people who I'm more inclined to forgive nonsensical posting from, simply because I've played with them and I know it's NAI, while there are others where doing so would be very out of character.

It's also possible that you've established a read of some sort either of the slots involved, and this read is coloring your perception of their posting.

-Cerb

[Detective Moonlight]

@RR I think that its a bad comment to make, as either alignment. But its also not nonsensical. If it comes from scum it could be a try to buddy, if it comes from town its just baiting scum to the players he mentioned. Both are wrong and should be questioned.
So i would have pointed it out, regardless of who said it. And yes, if it really were you who said that it was more worrying, since im townreading you while i have no clue about cowboy.

Also i believe 21 pages with content is very poor for a 17 player game. I made a catch up post and only koggz and D&D mentioned some part of it. Where is the discussion? Ask away, attack, whatever?

-S

[MathBlade]

..

You are a low content player. Always.

You are rarely around, and you do not post very much when you are around. Always.

These are not necessarily bad things, but they are things lurkers do. Just because you are not attempting to lurk, it does not mean that your play isn't analogous to that of lurkers.

Why are you so offended by someone choosing to use a shorthand for describing your play style?

-Cerb

Yes, I'm always a low-content player.

Deal.

It's better that I keep my low content limited to a few sentences in a few posts as opposed to wallposts of fluff, no?

But that's not what MathBlade said.

She said I lurk. Lurk means hang around and not do anything.

I don't do that.

I'll often log into a game and then have a shit-ton of meatworld things to do, so it takes me hours to go through a few pages.

But that's not lurking.

Sometimes I can come in, read through, make my post(s) and split.

That's not lurking.

I don't lurk. I don't have time to lurk.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is: what matters is mine. I absolutely do not agree with you on it. To me a low content poster is a lurker. There is a definition on the wiki called active lurking that sums up thoughts nicely. It is the amount of content that is provided to where I define a lurker.

Therefore until you do stuff like you are now, I will always consider you a lurker. To quote you: "Deal."

The question becomes why does how I perceive you bother you so much?

[MathBlade]

@RR there are like 5 posts in the matrix pt. So far i nullread the ppl in there
But i kinda dislike the way you implied that we are most likely a good PR because of low stats. If you want just openly ask scum to kill us?
Im not going to say if we have a lot of power or not for obvious reasons, but did it ever cross your mind that we have low stats because we have rasther rare stats? Maybe the combination of our stats is needed often? There are so many possibilities, why point out that single one that is not good for us?

I didn't imply anything. I noted the data ( as I'm sure *someone* on the scum team was smart enough to do already) and shared the numbers, very deliberately avoiding mentioning the obvious possibility that your role has powers to make up for the low stats.

It was Space Cowboy who came along and actually pointed out that possibility while ignoring all others (such as the fact that your role may have some unique utility on missions, or some other effect that makes up for the low stats).

Why did you believe I was the one who noted that? Do you still dislike that it was mentioned, regardless of who actually brought it up?

-Cerb

Why are you assuming scum are data driven? And furthermore why mention the lower stats people at all? It is like you are assuming scum would do things like you. Reminds me of what got told to me a lot in the Yuri game and what I am working on fixing. Furthermore I find it weird you are okay with mechanics decisions yet post scum are trying to do data calculations to find PRs. If they were doing such a thing mechanics spec helps them which is why I tried to keep the game focused on Mafia rather than setup spec because scum can't hide there.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[MathBlade]

@RR I think that its a bad comment to make, as either alignment. But its also not nonsensical. If it comes from scum it could be a try to buddy, if it comes from town its just baiting scum to the players he mentioned. Both are wrong and should be questioned.
So i would have pointed it out, regardless of who said it. And yes, if it really were you who said that it was more worrying, since im townreading you while i have no clue about cowboy.

Also i believe 21 pages with content is very poor for a 17 player game. I made a catch up post and only koggz and D&D mentioned some part of it. Where is the discussion? Ask away, attack, whatever?

-S

Horrible post.

As I posted earlier I was at work. Not even waiting 24 hours before going "hey where's the replies?" is bad. Furthermore if you think something is a horrible comment as either alignment what makes you town read them?

Lastly in your catchup post you said "Let me try to start a wagon...." And the person you try to wagon isn't in your scumreads list and you say Cowboy's posts are scummy as fuck.

Karnos, Space Cowboy, DM all aligned?

[MathBlade]

I had a big multiquote then it disappeared somehow q.q
I'll just put my thoughts here

RR - at the time of your comment that said "I only make early pushes when there's massive contradictions but no one is talking" there were nearly 20 pages. How is that "no one talking"?

I didn't mind Grovyle's Koggz's vote but Space Cowboy following them on it was really awful.
Koggz is a town lean for me
Also lean town on PV
-dragons

15 pages would be more accurate, and the majority of that was groyle and space cowboy, with a bit of JaeReed and myself, and it was largely setup and mechanic discussion.

So yes, that is no one talking.

-Cerb

And you townread everyone who was posting during that time?

-dragons

I like dragons head. Not sure who is who of the heads but dragons head seems to have good questions.

[MathBlade]

@RR I've put in placeholders just in case, but there's some further tweaking I'd like to do.

Comments/Thoughts on the recent postings?

[MathBlade]

1. Then you should probably explain the read, because the only post he made since your last post was that readlist...

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

But of course I probably sound like some condescending jerk who thinks that they are above everyone else. So what do I know?

koggz be more specific then

I won't rank my townreads. I'll list them in order of how much information I feel I've given as to my reasonings for why they're townreads, though.

like this
is pro town behavior

So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise.

not like this


also

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

more exaggeration
koggz have zero problem with mechanics/setup speculation

Math wonder why koggz likes setup spec but then is selective about where they like it being used. Math wonders why Koggz is not responding to more players. This worries Math.

Math is concerned that maybe Cowboy is town lynchbait then Koggz is scum.

Any particular reason for the third person talk Koggz? Would Koggz prefer a specific pronoun?

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR there are like 5 posts in the matrix pt. So far i nullread the ppl in there
But i kinda dislike the way you implied that we are most likely a good PR because of low stats. If you want just openly ask scum to kill us?
Im not going to say if we have a lot of power or not for obvious reasons, but did it ever cross your mind that we have low stats because we have rasther rare stats? Maybe the combination of our stats is needed often? There are so many possibilities, why point out that single one that is not good for us?

I didn't imply anything. I noted the data ( as I'm sure *someone* on the scum team was smart enough to do already) and shared the numbers, very deliberately avoiding mentioning the obvious possibility that your role has powers to make up for the low stats.

It was Space Cowboy who came along and actually pointed out that possibility while ignoring all others (such as the fact that your role may have some unique utility on missions, or some other effect that makes up for the low stats).

Why did you believe I was the one who noted that? Do you still dislike that it was mentioned, regardless of who actually brought it up?

-Cerb

Why are you assuming scum are data driven? And furthermore why mention the lower stats people at all? It is like you are assuming scum would do things like you. Reminds me of what got told to me a lot in the Yuri game and what I am working on fixing. Furthermore I find it weird you are okay with mechanics decisions yet post scum are trying to do data calculations to find PRs. If they were doing such a thing mechanics spec helps them which is why I tried to keep the game focused on Mafia rather than setup spec because scum can't hide there.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww.

I'm not assuming scum are data driven, it's just the absolute simplest thing in the world to do and there is literally no reason to not do it. I always assume scum are competent, and any competent team would at least do this much, while many town players *wouldn't*.

I don't understand your sentence about me being "okay with mechanics decisions but post scum are trying to do data calculations to find PRs". I didn't say that? You're putting a shit load of spin on your interpretation of my post. What do you mean by "okay with mechanics decisions?" Did you mean mechanics discussions?

ALSO sharing publicly available information with the rest of town so as to allow them to take that information into account helps to prevent the widening of the knowledge gap between factions. If scum go to this effort, and town dont, it just means scum know EVEN MORE than town did. If both go to the effort, status quo is maintained. If JUST town do it, and scum didn't think to (for some reason, for the record, if after this game I go to the scum PT and see you didn't think to do this much I'm going to mock every member of that team mercilessly), then again, the status quo is maintained. Discussing those stats prevents the worst case scenario.

Actually, the more I think about this, the less I like the fact that you outright lied about what I stated. I never said scum were doing calculations to find PRs. Why did you say that?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@dm: I don't believe it was a nonsensical comment to make either, I was merely giving an example of a reason why a post might be concerning coming from one slot while being unremarkable coming from another.

Walk me through the "no clue about cowboy". He's easily one of the slots with the most actual content to go off of.

Also, your catchup post didn't register for me at all. As in, there was nothing stated in it that made me want to ask you specific questions on the first read.
@Mathblade: Koggz is a she, and the third person thing is standard posting for her. Seconding the question about the selective mechanics discussion. Also, I already asked KC why she cared about your opinion, and she didn't bother answering.

-Cerb

[MathBlade]

From that post -- I noted the data ( as I'm sure *someone* on the scum team was smart enough to do already

Yes you said that scum were doing calculations.
And scum don't have to find town. So why the hell else would they do calculations?

Thirdly why the hell do you put me as scum as a townread of yours.
You said and I quote "if after this game I go to the scum PT and see you didn't think to do this".
Guess what genius I am not in the scum PT and trying to suggest that is all kinds of bad.

Mafia is a game of reading people. I use numbers to supplement but not make my case. Posting certain things only hurts people regardless of how easy it is to do. I could use my math degree and post a shit ton of things and write a program to do a lot of things. however I find the more numbers talk the less engaged people can be.

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

Pedit: KlingonCelt as they said have many different things to do in meat world at times. I asked again specifically to see if a certain response comes up. But now that you mentioned ignoring it is invalid. *sigh*

[Detective Moonlight]

@RR I think that its a bad comment to make, as either alignment. But its also not nonsensical. If it comes from scum it could be a try to buddy, if it comes from town its just baiting scum to the players he mentioned. Both are wrong and should be questioned.
So i would have pointed it out, regardless of who said it. And yes, if it really were you who said that it was more worrying, since im townreading you while i have no clue about cowboy.

Also i believe 21 pages with content is very poor for a 17 player game. I made a catch up post and only koggz and D&D mentioned some part of it. Where is the discussion? Ask away, attack, whatever?

-S

Horrible post.

As I posted earlier I was at work. Not even waiting 24 hours before going "hey where's the replies?" is bad. Furthermore if you think something is a horrible comment as either alignment what makes you town read them?

Lastly in your catchup post you said "Let me try to start a wagon...." And the person you try to wagon isn't in your scumreads list and you say Cowboy's posts are scummy as fuck.

Karnos, Space Cowboy, DM all aligned?

Yes all of us are aligned. I dont think scum aligned, though.

I think you should also read a bit more. I never said it was AI, i said it was a bad move. I dont even see the scum motive behind saying such things after a bit of thinking.

I am pretty sure the person i voted for was in my list. Certain, even. It also was a reaction test because they seem to be widely townread when, imo, none of their actions warrant a townread like this, and that makes me suspicious. But, of course, they havent even posted yet.
I said cowboy's

tone

was scummy af. I never said their actions were, which is why i'm having problems with reading them. I also asked for a case on them, for that same reason. Do you have any?

-S