Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[Not Chara]

also, spell their name correctly. i don't approve of pissing people off just for the sake of it.

[Not Chara]

my feelings exactly.

one thing: i don't want either Ankamius or SlySly hammering. i'd rather SlySly hammer if one of them has to, but better would be neither.
if i'm asked about this, my answer is flavour + a theory i can't back up without a bunch of setup and flavour speculation.

[Not Chara]

i don't consider myself easily influenced. in what way does that post indicate it?
i do tend to knee-jerk agree with the opinions of others if they

sound

good, but that opinion on Nahdia in particular is one i'm sure came from more time spent reflecting on Nahdia themselves, and not the opinions others have.
i barely played in Shadowrun. i read the first day then stopped catching up, it was lazy and disappointing. and i ended up going with a lynch on the player my townreads were suspecting. it was sort of the definition of coasting and sheeping as town.

pedit: shoot. goodbye, House.

[Not Chara]

one thing: i don't want either Ankamius or SlySly hammering. i'd rather SlySly hammer if one of them has to, but better would be neither.

Ank's hammer has negative flavor. The hammer swinging options are me and Andrius. My hammer is nothing to fear unless it's your head on the block. When L-1 arrives, if there's a scum hammer, I'm sure it will be swinging as fast as possible if the head on the block belongs to a townie. My hammer will swing when the town bloc is saying swing.

Andrius is on the table for that? even worse. you're still a better one, depending on this: is your hammer a personal preference or not? i think giga asked but i don't remember your answer. a repeat or quote would be helpful.

[Not Chara]

wait, Sly. Ank's hammer has negative flavour? where did you come up with that?

[Not Chara]

oh. that isn't flavour. that's negative utility. negative flavour is flavour and would have to relate to Undertale in some way.
an answer to my question about hammering, please?

[Not Chara]

thank you, but i still don't want you to hammer.

[Not Chara]

it's because you asked to do so, Sly. on principle, you asking has me too concerned about it to say 'ok, sure, hammer'. and no, it has nothing to do with you.

[Not Chara]

Firebringer: thank you. c= you know i change it like most people change clothes, but at least the look is consistent enough that i remain recognizable. your current one is cute too.
who besides Titus looks like scum?

Ankamius: how you word it doesn't matter to me so much as the flavour implications. i don't trust anything that gains power through being responsible or partially-responsible for a death.
i don't mind so much if scum hammers, on day 1, when there will probably only be one hammerable wagon in the first place. scum can't do much to alter the gamestate just by hammering. it's if powers are gained from it that i worry.

[Not Chara]

it's because you asked to do so, Sly. on principle, you asking has me too concerned about it to say 'ok, sure, hammer'. and no, it has nothing to do with you.

[Not Chara]

i'll hammer Titus. failing that, if one of those three

must..

it should be Sly.
but did Adrius claim a hammer ability, Sly?
Gamma: i think we have the same idea. unfortunately, this game being bastard, that does not reassure me.

[Not Chara]

i understand the feeling, but any player could have an awkward day 1. forgoing a lynch because one knows a player isn't a practice i like to get into, especially when you're scumreading them.
what's your new avatar from?

[Not Chara]

the above is if Titus is run up. i'm aware no one is very close to a lynch right now.

[Not Chara]

i was about to say the same.

[Not Chara]

if Fire is an exception, why can't McMenno be?

[Not Chara]

check Blade Dancer's ISO where she quotes her main. apparently it's a tell.

[Not Chara]

thank you for reminding me that i have booze.

[Not Chara]

we already are.
now please, call me Chara. :>

[Not Chara]

neglecting to read is null. i've done so as town. this game is a 100 page beast.

[Not Chara]

welcome, Yume.
VOTE: Titus

Shiro?

[Not Chara]

Hi Yume, join our Nahdia wagon

Nahdia's town. join the Titus wagon.

[Not Chara]

also, Sly: what brought on your read on me. going from our discussion regarding your hammer earlier, that 'thanks for your input, scum' post was rather surprising.

[Not Chara]

i'm not caught up. should remedy that tonight when i finish a few assignments.
Fire: i had bad feelings about magna for some time, but some later posts pinged me as town for his analysis. your input would be helpful, as my read on him is currently an uneasy null.
i have a response to magna's last post too, but i need to go. see you soon.

[Not Chara]

i'm back. catching up on my missed pages in a bit. for now: who's going along with the flow, exactly?
Maxous, i'd like you to go more in depth about that.
zakk: when did you go from townreading me to having me in your lynch pool? do you think i'm bussing Titus?

i'm reflexively suspicious of all players who want to hammer for their role, or have other hammer-related abilities. if anyone wants a flavour + setup speculative explanation for that, i'm happy to oblige.

[Not Chara]

2942: putting aside the number of players who've said they're scumreading me but won't go for it unless there's a wagon (and also, hilariously, accusing me of only voting wagons i think i won't be attacked for), why did that post in particular cement your scumread on me? i want details.
on Narna: what on earth is scummy about bringing up alignment-indicative information from Nahdia's audio upload? Skullduggery didn't take it down, it's still there to be listened to if one wishes. Narna was asking a question to get an answer from Sly, in response to a different but tangentially related issue involving fully reading the game vs. not fully reading the game. Nahdia's audio was brought up as a why to question Sly. opinions about whether or not the audio should be used in analysis are entirely player and ethics based. why are you presenting it as alignment-indicative?

pedit: i don't remember you claiming anything like that. quote it, if you must, but don't put down any new information about your role. if it was a crumb, don't underline it either.

[Not Chara]

Why would you ask someone you supposedly think is scum to explain to you why they think you are scum?

VOTE: Firebringer

I was asking her why she thinks mcmenno is scum. So you failed to pick up some context.
and I would ask with the thoughts being maybe i am wrong about her and try to see her POV.

Ok

VOTE: Titus it is then

what's wrong with asking your scumread for details about their bad reads?
i feel like this shouldn't have prompted an immediate jump from the Titus wagon.
the jump back on makes sense because the vote change was based on a misunderstanding, but the vote change at all is what i'm questioning.

Gamma: i just said not to underline your crumb. why would you even bring this up? did you want me to be suspicious of you instead of townread you or something?

[Not Chara]

i'm back. catching up on my missed pages in a bit. for now: who's going along with the flow, exactly?
Maxous, i'd like you to go more in depth about that.
zakk: when did you go from townreading me to having me in your lynch pool? do you think i'm bussing Titus?

i'm reflexively suspicious of all players who want to hammer for their role, or have other hammer-related abilities. if anyone wants a flavour + setup speculative explanation for that, i'm happy to oblige.

Not Chara and the flavor again.
We don't need more flavor speculation.
I want reads and contributions from you and all players not flavor speculation.

I'm going to cut you off here so I don't have to come back in a few hours and say that you're faking content by posting paragraphs of flavor speculation instead of talking about reads FIVE DAYS BEFORE DEADLINE.

christ. i'm excited about the flavour. my username and avatar are from the flavour. i like to be called 'Chara', a bloody Undertale character. i'm

excited

. go suck the fun out of a different bastard game, why don't you.
ask me for reads instead of shutting down a discussion that had not even begun. i was going to elaborate only if someone asked why. and yes, it has to do with my reads.

you're also making a lot of assumptions about what kind of content i plan on producing, considering you've never played with me before.

this game is bastard, so it's possible the deadline is still in five days. do i think that? no. that doesn't mean i'm not trying to get a lynch sooner rather than later.

[Not Chara]

that Gaster ability being anything but anti-town/scum would surprise me greatly. it's scum whether it had to do with zakk or not.
and, Andrius: i feel like you ignored the rest of my post, there. it's like you saw the word 'flavour' and jumped on it to the expense of anything else i've said.

Gamma: then it should be obvious, that i did not notice your crumb. you're also a major townread. Sly, Andrius, and Ankamius are not. well, Sly is a minor townread.

[Not Chara]

word salad is my only weapon. i can go on for hours about nothing at all.
you have to work on those heavy handed crumbs, Titus.

so, your McMenno push. i've been working it around in my head and.. yeah, like? i see where town Titus gets that one. you've got precedent for that tell you were pushing so hard. so that's town.
it's the rest of your play that i'm not a fan of. maybe it's your being ill, or tired or.. i'm not really sure what you've been hinting that you're feeling like but it could be one of those. i don't feel like you're throwing your weight around. your interactions with Nahdia, who you want lynched, also lack that oomph. let's talk about that.

pedit: is that a serious wondering, Nahdia? i don't really believe it is.

Titus, did you ever end up responding to this? i feel as though i'm being largely ignored by you. i'm mentioned as a passing scumread, and that's it.
Andrius: i don't remember which post had you saying this, and i don't care to find it right now, but. you claimed i was only fine with lynching you after you mentioned a scumread on me. ISO me with your name, you'll find that isn't true. try again.

[Not Chara]

Peregrine: hm.
ok, so maybe i do see your point. it has two possible points of utility, depending on if it actually changed the deadline:
1) if it makes the deadline so far ahead that we can never be pressured by deadline, and are forced to lynch to end the day... it could be a tool for fostering town apathy. the timing would matter less. i might use it to either accelerate or decelerate a wagon, depending on which effect i thought it would have. but it would probably serve to derail a wagon more than accelerate it if i think more.
2) if it's simply hiding the deadline, and we still have the regular one, then its use is to surprise town with a no lynch when we expected more time.

i think both Narna and PeregrineV are town here. so is Nahdia.
the only wagons that exist now and that i would consider are McMenno and Titus. i very much doubt both are scum. but i'm not voting to lynch McMenno when he's more of a 'leftovers' read from not looking particularly towny, and i have a much stronger scumread on Titus. who everyone should still vote. abandon Nahdia and Narna, already.

[Not Chara]

i don't think the deadline was shorted. like you said, unlikely.
i do want to consolidate on a wagon.
why do you still have Titus as town? 2153 suggests doubt, and you say you simply agree with her opinions while disagreeing on her methods. in my opinion, reasons for feelings are more important than if their reads are correct when it comes to determining if someone is scummy.

[Not Chara]

Actually, if the deadline really is extended, it feels pro-town because it gives extra discussion time (not that any extra discussion is needed). That may actually mean scum has day chat, because a prolonged day phase without day talk would be hell for scum.

trust me, it isn't protown.
apathy is the worst thing for town. see the post-game for Shadowrun mafia, long day phases are awful.

scum could have an encryptor, they could not. according to mod meta, though i forget who went looking, it's a toss up.

[Not Chara]

the problem with Titus being scum is that i have no concrete evidence posts. i can't quote contradictions, or posts where she's manipulating people.
it's simple a terribly bad feeling that has been compounded by her odd behaviour. Titus has quite a presence in games i've read in the past, no i will not be providing examples but all games are completed, and those who are familiar with her really should know what i mean. i don't see that here. she's tunneling, because she's a tunneler and she knows it, but there's no wider sense. there isn't any wildly connecting McMenno through associatives to find his scumteam, from her point of view.
she isn't engaging with me no matter how many potshots i throw her way.
hm. actually, looking at her reads progression might help communicate this.
Titus is

stubborn

. Titus is not being stubborn.

[Not Chara]

Narna: i don't believe McMenno is a bus. there's no reason for her to do so. i think he's just being McMenno.
if i'm entirely off base with Titus, he could be scum. but i don't think i am.

[Not Chara]

i think McMenno has a better chance of going through than either you or Nahdia.
i don't like to look at bussing too much on day 1, with no flips. looking at them independently, which do you think is more likely scum?

just checked up on McMenno's voting history. he's still on your slot, and hasn't changed votes since. i didn't realize that until now.
but i don't have the knowledge about McMenno that i do about Titus. so he feels vaguely... 'eh', whereas Titus just feels very bad.

pedit: McMenno, say Narna isn't happening today. who would you lynch instead.

[Not Chara]

why do you keep misrepping me

this isn't something you say to the player you're trying to lynch.

[Not Chara]

because the answer to your own question should be known to you? he's misrepping you because he's scum.
it's a frustrated question, but should be in line with your read on the slot. i'm wondering why you were surprised.

[Not Chara]

Since he hopped on the McMenno wagon.

VOTE: Leonshade

Anyone? Please?

you were on McMenno too.
why is Leonshade scum for it?

[Not Chara]

Nahdia: i have to agree there, i don't really like him not going to you or Narna here. it would make more sense than blindly sheeping. and i had him as null before.
your explanation makes sense to me.
Leonshade can be a scumread. but i'd rather lynch Titus. i still need to go through her reads progression.

Narna: i'm not sold on Peregrine, i still think he's town. Leon can go on the backburner. Magna, i'm in the midst of sorting.

pedit: scum bus less when there are three and a half wagons on the table. i, for one, like to assume that scum is trying to take advantage of the large playerlist of day 1 and lynch town safely, instead of gambiting with a bus that may not even get them townread when site meta is expecting scum to bus at every corner. case in point: your own opinion. :>

[Not Chara]

because the answer to your own question should be known to you? he's misrepping you because he's scum.
it's a frustrated question, but should be in line with your read on the slot. i'm wondering why you were surprised.

oh I might believe they are scum, but others clearly do not

having correct scumreads isn't enough, gotta get people to vote them too

i mean, fair. the question just read to me more as frustration than an attempt to push Narna or to get him to give your more content for your read.

[Not Chara]

Maxous, could you rephrase your last sentence?
scum can and do buddy town to get onto mislynches with little incident... i think it's a good point against Leonshade. do you often see scum avoid buddying town onto lynches?

pedit: i can't remember the exact post, but i remember asking 'Magna, are you actually town?' in response to it. some things he said sounded vaguely towny, so i'm back to trying to sort him. i still don't like him very much, but my mind is no longer made up.
i think i have a post on why Peregrine is town.

[Not Chara]

question who hasn't been wagoned at this point

hahaha.
Maxous, i do agree with you. but between McMenno, Titus, and Leonshade, Titus is my first choice. Leonshade follows, a recent addition, and McMenno is the last.

[Not Chara]

oh, right. i didn't have a large post on it, just feelings that i talk about in a few posts, briefly.
i liked his play in general. didn't have much of a problem with what he was doing. his paranoia and conspiracy theories regarding the wingdings are what turned that into a stronger townread. like i told zakk, i find conspiracy theories generally towny, unless it looks like a show is being put on. i don't think Peregrine is putting on a show, he's very committed to his ideas here and he hasn't deviated from it. it looks real to me.

[Not Chara]

ewwwww

FoS: Leonshade wagon

why is Leonshade town, and what's invalid about the point Nahdia brought up?
to round things out nicely: what is the scum motivation in starting

another

wagon when there's support for others? do you think all of those wagons are on scum?
why are you still voting Narna?

pedit: Sly's translator theory

is

nonsense, and NIA.
Peregrine's stubborn plugging of his theory still looks more like town to me. i think scum would have backed off when proved wrong like that. i don't really see scum employing the tactic of hands over their ears and singing 'lalala' very loudly in the face of evidence.

pedit2: hahaha.

[Not Chara]

wow. it is amazing how your response had nothing to do with what i said. i even said your McMenno push was in line with you as town.
and you're not obvious town. at all, really. from where do you get that?
i'm surprised you're not asking for me to back up my meta. how about you show me how i'm dealing with town Titus here and not scum Titus.

pedit: poking people is not the same thing as manipulation. you may call it that, but my definition of the word, and how i've been using it, refers to scum who are trying to form the wagons as they please. either to lynch town or keep their buddies from being lynched. that's what i'm referring to.

you'll find my scumread has little to do with your McMenno push. the last post you quoted even has my conclusion about that. 'so that's town'. that part read town. it's the

rest

.
i'm not talking about this morning, either. you just finally responded to 2035, which i posted... last Thursday. and in this game in general, i've not been engaged by you.

[Not Chara]

not a volunteer to be lynched? a volunteer for all bad actions? ;>
the wink indicates a joke. still, though. you're scum.

Maxous was also voting McMenno when he made that post. but, good on you for telling him to lynch the player he wants lynched.

[Not Chara]

wow. it is amazing how your response had nothing to do with what i said. i even said your McMenno push was in line with you as town.
and you're not obvious town. at all, really. from where do you get that?
i'm surprised you're not asking for me to back up my meta. how about you show me how i'm dealing with town Titus here and not scum Titus.

pedit: poking people is not the same thing as manipulation. you may call it that, but my definition of the word, and how i've been using it, refers to scum who are trying to form the wagons as they please. either to lynch town or keep their buddies from being lynched. that's what i'm referring to.

you'll find my scumread has little to do with your McMenno push. the last post you quoted even has my conclusion about that. 'so that's town'. that part read town. it's the

rest

.
i'm not talking about this morning, either. you just finally responded to 2035, which i posted... last Thursday. and in this game in general, i've not been engaged by you.

I get I am obvious town from the obvious town like Maxous saying I am and

the main pushers on me are slots like you that say nothing of substance but seek permission from others.

You want more engagement, put something tangible that doesn't follow the crowd.

I occasionally miss a post or two. I don't reply to fluff or gut. You want my attention, SAY SOMETHING USEFUL.

i'm still being accused of following the crowd here. and yes, it's still funny. guess what, Titus? the crowd doesn't exactly want you lynched.
there is no crowd to begin win. the largest wagon has, what, six votes?
Maxous is obvious town, sure. one townread on you from town does not make you obvious town.
there's also a contradiction in the bolded. if your main pushers are ones who say nothing of substance, and only follow... please, tell me who we're all following?
my posts don't lack substance. i don't post fluff. i occasionally post gut, but i also explain why and how i come to those conclusions, because gut feelings are always based in real happenings.

[Not Chara]

you keep firing what little ammunition you have, Titus.
i know you don't have any, because i'm right. you're not accusing me of erroneous or misapplied meta. you're not even asking for clarification. you're barely pushing me, and what you are saying is entirely vague issues you apparently have with my play, yet cannot pinpoint.

Cakez: where am i wrong with Titus? look at her recent posting.

[Not Chara]

i'm telling you, i don't think this is Titus being Titus. she isn't being ridiculous, for one.

[Not Chara]

if pepto/Narna were not lynched before, they're not going to be lynched now.
not until you have more to say on the matter than 'vote Narna'.

[Not Chara]

Cakez: where am i wrong with Titus? look at her recent posting.

her recent posts couldn't possibly be more town

are you referring to the part where she ignored my challenge about her meta? if i'm wrong, she certainly isn't attempting to tell me or convince anyone else i'm scum. (she should know there's support for it. so why not?)
or where she ignored my question about who i'm following in my read on her? is it zakk, Firebringer? who knows, certainly not Titus.

Ankamius: lazy. talk about why they're scum to you.

[Not Chara]

ewwwww

FoS: Leonshade wagon

why is Leonshade town, and what's invalid about the point Nahdia brought up?
to round things out nicely: what is the scum motivation in starting

another

wagon when there's support for others? do you think all of those wagons are on scum?
why are you still voting Narna?

I can easily see town coming back from a V/LA to the game thread more than doubling, then deciding that instead of trying to read through the entire thread that they haven't seen yet to try to catch up on the game, they'll instead sheep their strongest town read and try to catch up based on what's going on now instead. Trying to force a case on him not being willing to sheep onto his scumreads over this is scummy as shit, especially since his scumreads didn't exactly look strong beforehand.

PEdit: FFS GUYS

sure. i don't think the case is forced. i mean, sheeping town who is also sheeping your nullish-townread? when there's a wagon on both of your scumreads? it's valid to read that as town, but it also makes sense to read it as scum.
you didn't answer why scum want to start another wagon here.

[Not Chara]

you keep firing what little ammunition you have, Titus.
i know you don't have any, because i'm right. you're not accusing me of erroneous or misapplied meta. you're not even asking for clarification. you're barely pushing me, and what you are saying is entirely vague issues you apparently have with my play, yet cannot pinpoint.

Cakez: where am i wrong with Titus? look at her recent posting.

Little ammunition? That's exactly what scum said in the other game too.
i am accusing you of not even reading or trying to sort me but just saying "shit's off" or dome variant to skate by while Sheeping anything you got a pass on.
Firebringer is using erroneous meta that borders on outright fiction (street fighter) while doing nothing else.
I don't really get how you can argue that I am bring vague here when I have said this game is déjà vu.

Here, let's try specifics since SAY SOMETHING USEFUL wasn't clear.

State your reads.

you know what they are. in fact, i'm going to quote recent posts that have all of them, instead of listing them here. because i've been talking about my reads exclusively since i began posting today.
you keep comparing this to another game. with different players. who are all different people, shockingly. there isn't a single scum book that every scumteam follows, were you aware of that?
so, it's Firebringer i'm sheeping, then? it's too bad i had that scumread before Firebringer replaced in.

[Not Chara]

god, nevermind. that's too much work. the point is my reads are all here. if you don't know my reads, Titus, you really are not looking. but i'll make you a list if you're still really, really confused.

pedit: don't just dump a giant post and expect us to know what you're pointing at.

[Not Chara]

You know what also makes sense.

Scum trying to wagon everyone who votes McMenno that they can get away with.

Go ahead, keep shading Leon.

Titus is scum defending her buddy Leon.
do you see how easy that is? ^
picking a scumread and ignoring other ones, because all wagons that aren't a part of your false tunnel must be scum defending that other scum, right? it's like you don't even need to try to play once you've done that.

Ankamius: hm. alright, point. i haven't encountered scum purposely trying to throw up dust on day one through nonsensical votes, but i can see it making sense. i guess i'd like to hear from Leonshade, then.

[Not Chara]

Cakez: Firebringer is pushing her. it isn't so ridiculous to say 'there are sketchy players on a bad wagon on me'.

[Not Chara]

i'm pushing her. obviously.
the scumread is bad, because i think Firebringer is town. i'm saying Titus isn't being ridiculous in that her actions make sense and she isn't contradicting herself or indulging in confbiasing.
the Firebringer scumread is a straight-forward: this player is pushing me, so i need to discredit them.

[Not Chara]

there's a difference between having bad reads and being 'ridiculous'. level-headedness can lead to bad reads. you said Titus is being ridiculous, hence she's town. i'm saying she is not.

[Not Chara]

zakk: town, should answer my question
Cakez: probably town
Yume: House was town
Maxous: town
Creature: no read here, really
Peregrine: town
Titus: scum
Shiro: null? or nulltown
Magna: null or scum, we're still talking
Nosferatu: Nosferawho
Nahdia: town
Firebringer: possible town, Accountant was scummy but Firebringer agrees with me. not sure i can read Firebringer anyway
Ankamius: was not a fan, but no major issues with his play. recent explanation also makes sense to me
Sly: town, but i have reservations
McMenno: not scum with you, that's for sure. scum if you're town
Snarky: null
Narna: townish
Gamma: very town
Leonshade: i see Ankamius's point, but i've seen nothing particularly towny from the slot and wouldn't mind seeing some heat there
Andrius: scum
massive: i had no read and did a quick ISO. scummy

[Not Chara]

Cakez and Titus: again, not what i'm saying. you're acting like all i had to say about Titus was the lack of confbias. read the rest of my points again, Cakez.
and Titus, you continue what you're doing. i complained about having little material, but your selective reading of my posts is doing nicely.

[Not Chara]

2632: like, this is really just taking out of context a conversation on a point i was having with SirCakez. it started with 2625.

[Not Chara]

I read the whole post. You think she's not being ridiculous, that her reads make sense and she's not contradicting herself. I don't get how that connects to a scumread.
The only negative thing I see is that the Fire scunread is bad, which I concur

that post wasn't my 'Titus is scum' post.
that post was in response to you saying she wasn't being ridiculous. (when i brought it up as a point about how, in my readings, she is more confbiasy as town and less so as scum)

[Not Chara]

2632: like, this is really just taking out of context a conversation on a point i was having with SirCakez. it started with 2625.

No, it isn't. I have played here long enough to know when I am bring shaded for making too much sense and not confbiasing.

You are scraping here.

What is your read of McMenno separate from me?

if you weren't in the game, i'd probably be on his wagon.

you aren't making

too much sense

. calling me contentless, for example, makes no sense at all except as a way to discredit me. i'm not fluffposting in the least. i've explained my stances.
who am i following, Titus? where am i ducking my head to hide? i'm right here.

[Not Chara]

I'm starting to get the sense that one of Titus or McMenno are a lyncher ... maybe both ...

something tells me we don't have two lynchers. or a lyncher whose lynchee is also a lyncher.

[Not Chara]

there's more than this as the read developed, but here you go.

Spoiler: for Cakez

the problem with Titus being scum is that i have no concrete evidence posts. i can't quote contradictions, or posts where she's manipulating people.
it's simple a terribly bad feeling that has been compounded by her odd behaviour. Titus has quite a presence in games i've read in the past, no i will not be providing examples but all games are completed, and those who are familiar with her really should know what i mean. i don't see that here. she's tunneling, because she's a tunneler and she knows it, but there's no wider sense. there isn't any wildly connecting McMenno through associatives to find his scumteam, from her point of view.
she isn't engaging with me no matter how many potshots i throw her way.
hm. actually, looking at her reads progression might help communicate this.
Titus is

stubborn

. Titus is not being stubborn.

click to go to this post and go up a few to see the posts from Titus it's in response to.

wow. it is amazing how your response had nothing to do with what i said. i even said your McMenno push was in line with you as town.
and you're not obvious town. at all, really. from where do you get that?
i'm surprised you're not asking for me to back up my meta. how about you show me how i'm dealing with town Titus here and not scum Titus.

pedit: poking people is not the same thing as manipulation. you may call it that, but my definition of the word, and how i've been using it, refers to scum who are trying to form the wagons as they please. either to lynch town or keep their buddies from being lynched. that's what i'm referring to.

you'll find my scumread has little to do with your McMenno push. the last post you quoted even has my conclusion about that. 'so that's town'. that part read town. it's the

rest

.
i'm not talking about this morning, either. you just finally responded to 2035, which i posted... last Thursday. and in this game in general, i've not been engaged by you.

wow. it is amazing how your response had nothing to do with what i said. i even said your McMenno push was in line with you as town.
and you're not obvious town. at all, really. from where do you get that?
i'm surprised you're not asking for me to back up my meta. how about you show me how i'm dealing with town Titus here and not scum Titus.

pedit: poking people is not the same thing as manipulation. you may call it that, but my definition of the word, and how i've been using it, refers to scum who are trying to form the wagons as they please. either to lynch town or keep their buddies from being lynched. that's what i'm referring to.

you'll find my scumread has little to do with your McMenno push. the last post you quoted even has my conclusion about that. 'so that's town'. that part read town. it's the

rest

.
i'm not talking about this morning, either. you just finally responded to 2035, which i posted... last Thursday. and in this game in general, i've not been engaged by you.

I get I am obvious town from the obvious town like Maxous saying I am and

the main pushers on me are slots like you that say nothing of substance but seek permission from others.

You want more engagement, put something tangible that doesn't follow the crowd.

I occasionally miss a post or two. I don't reply to fluff or gut. You want my attention, SAY SOMETHING USEFUL.

i'm still being accused of following the crowd here. and yes, it's still funny. guess what, Titus? the crowd doesn't exactly want you lynched.
there is no crowd to begin win. the largest wagon has, what, six votes?
Maxous is obvious town, sure. one townread on you from town does not make you obvious town.
there's also a contradiction in the bolded. if your main pushers are ones who say nothing of substance, and only follow... please, tell me who we're all following?
my posts don't lack substance. i don't post fluff. i occasionally post gut, but i also explain why and how i come to those conclusions, because gut feelings are always based in real happenings.

Cakez: where am i wrong with Titus? look at her recent posting.

her recent posts couldn't possibly be more town

are you referring to the part where she ignored my challenge about her meta? if i'm wrong, she certainly isn't attempting to tell me or convince anyone else i'm scum. (she should know there's support for it. so why not?)
or where she ignored my question about who i'm following in my read on her? is it zakk, Firebringer? who knows, certainly not Titus.

Ankamius: lazy. talk about why they're scum to you.

i assume you've read these already, so i'm not sure how much good they'll do just repeating them.

[Not Chara]

Firebringer, no.

[Not Chara]

Oh right, I might join Cakez.

what reminded you of suddenly wanting to join a SirCakez wagon?

[Not Chara]

NC, when I said no one would vote mcmenno with Nahdia and I, I meant with us on the wagon. These two votes feel more like because of Titus than us, but the point still stands. Mcmenno is getting votes now that we have left the wagon.

sorry, i'm blanking on what you're responding to.

[Not Chara]

Cakez: yes. i can already tell you're not convinced.

look at Creature for me instead. what happened with 2653? i originally thought Creature meant joining you on the Nahdia wagon, but from his next post in conversation with Firebringer, he was asking to lynch you.
and the 'oh, right'. what caught his attention?
he was townreading you before this as well.

[Not Chara]

looking at the progression from 2650 to [post]2653[/[post].... did Creature see my spoiler for you and think i was trying to get you lynched?

[Not Chara]

looking at the progression from 2650 to 2653.... did Creature see my spoiler for you and think i was trying to get you lynched?

EBWOP
Gamma: lovely.

[Not Chara]

Cakez: yes. i can already tell you're not convinced.

look at Creature for me instead. what happened with 2653? i originally thought Creature meant joining you on the Nahdia wagon, but from his next post in conversation with Firebringer, he was asking to lynch you.
and the 'oh, right'. what caught his attention?
he was townreading you before this as well.

Actually it did weaken my townread, because Titus is working incredibly hard to discredit you which is pretty sketchy
I understand why you're scumreading her now so + town points to you and thanks for working with me

Cakez: yes. i can already tell you're not convinced.

look at Creature for me instead. what happened with 2653? i originally thought Creature meant joining you on the Nahdia wagon, but from his next post in conversation with Firebringer, he was asking to lynch you.
and the 'oh, right'. what caught his attention?
he was townreading you before this as well.

Yeah it's bizarre
I'm not really sure what he meant there?

Creature clarify pls

oh. hey, look at that. i misread your tone just then, but i'm happy to be proven wrong.
and yes, i'd love an explanation from Creature.

[Not Chara]

Andrius: again, i'm only flavour speccing for myself. if you'll notice, i didn't mention flavour at all in my reads post. and no one asked, so i won't be elaborating. you aren't sucking the fun out of the game, i'm sorry for accusing you of that.
my reads on Ankamius, Sly, and yourself aren't because of your claims. they're just causes for suspicion that i'm keeping in mind.
any mention of 'i see where town Titus gets that' is simply me explaining the progression of my reads and how they went from town to scum. she's scum. that isn't fencesitting.
i'm not considering McMenno so long as Titus is alive, or she starts being really towny, or she gets confirmed as town. that's it. or McMenno gets guiltied or scumclaims, i suppose.
i'm doing very little flavour speculation. this post is coming from you in the middle of a discussion about actual scumreads, and you keep bringing up my mentions of flavour.
this entire post is just a big misunderstanding or misrep of my stances and my play.

[Not Chara]

Creature stopped posting just after i asked what was up with him.

[Not Chara]

well, whatever. we'll see what happens when he gets back and responds.

[Not Chara]

that was a really terrible vote -> backlash -> unvote.

[Not Chara]

there's nothing to respond to until zakk has caught up.
meanwhile, everyone should look at this.

Sorry, I don't like explaining every single thing I do.

so, you can't explain your turnaround read on Cakez? or why you brought this up conspicuously right after my 2651?
also: my 2659, 2669, and 2672.

i think Creature saw my spoiler for Cakez, thought i was advocating for a Cakez wagon because he didn't read it, and pretended to say 'oh, yes, i could also lynch Cakez'. this is despite an earlier townread on Cakez and nothing i could find to indicate Creature has changed his mind.
i was looking for him to point to a reason that he would want to wagon Creature. all i can see is my post.
you should explain, Creature. that you avoiding doing so is tantamount to telling me i'm right.
VOTE: Creature

i want everyone's opinion on this.

[Not Chara]

Titus why do you think NC is scum? Let me just go to the point.
That was a pretty bad sequence of posts from Menno.

Andrius says it better than me but she's basically pushing only where it is popular and has no depth to reads. She's also pushing me based on garbage.

i'm still waiting for who i am pushing who's popular and who i'm following. you haven't said so.

[Not Chara]

zakk, take a look at 2742 whenever you get there.

[Not Chara]

where on earth did you get that my scumread of you decreased in any capacity?
Creature all but scumslipped. that's priority.
so, looking at vote progression... i suppose you're saying i was following House. except i stayed on you when he unvoted. but then i must have been following zakk... except, oops, they unvoted too. who's left, Firebringer? the one you were calling sketchy until just recently?
yes, Titus. i'm following the crowd on your lynch, it's ridiculous. good thing you caught me.

[Not Chara]

creature is town please stop

then explain what happened in the posts i've outlined. i've been looking for an explanation since it happened, i can't find one, Creature has not presented one, and no one else has either.

[Not Chara]

come to think of it, Fire didn't vote Titus untiil after i did. and zakk's been on and off the Titus wagon.
and the notion that i was following Gamma is just wrong, when you think about the timing of his own vote.
i've never stated 'sheeping' as my reasoning on Titus. none of my talk about Titus's alignment has to do with the reads of others on her. i never claimed that anyone else was responsible for my vote. you're grasping at straws that don't exist in the first place.

but, really, did Creature scumslip?

[Not Chara]

Magna: yes, i think they're both scum. Titus is based on reads, and while i didn't have a real read on Creature, i can't get past his suggestion of a Cakez wagon and my belief it was based on a mistaken assumption Creature made about the contents of my spoiler, which was put together for Cakez. (it was labeled 'For Cakez', but contained only my posts talking about Titus).

zakk saying he doesn't have strong scumreads when he

just

voted me for what is apparently a strong scumtell is what's suspect about their recent posting. am i not a strong scumread for that?

[Not Chara]

wait, what? Gamma, when was i trying to lynch you? i mean... i was, when i thought you were scum. but i've been over that for a while.

[Not Chara]

oh, i misunderstood. carry on then. :>

[Not Chara]

zakk: interesting use of voice to text.
i don't have enough experience to know how wagon composition + frequency relates to multiball scumteams. but i'm not discounting the possibility. to me it's just as likely as single ball.
i do agree with the thought that there is probably daytalk. i'm not sure if wagon leading/wagon following indicates town/scum more or less in this situation, since i usually find the former townier in the first place.
who grandstanded?
i thought Titus said Nahdia didn't claim. who else listened to it, was there a claim?

Gamma: i actually think Titus was saying you were one of the townies i would use as cover after her mislynch. like, 'i was following this person', it isn't my fault.
which is stupid, because i'm definitely pushing her and i'll take my credit for all it's worth.
and now she's coaching you on pushing her harder, just to discredit me. haha.
i mean, no offense to you, Gamma, but you said yourself (and it's evident) that you weren't pushing Titus so much as saying she was scummy in general, and also agreeing with points made against her.

[Not Chara]

This thread needs less one-line replies and more McMenno votes.

thanks for the useless push on the McMenno wagon. do you have anything to say about anything?
what's your opinion on my questions about Creature's possible slip?
seriously, i keep asking for opinions and no one has answered except Cakez and Gamma.
if you have a reason for it to have happened,

i'm listening

.
this includes McMenno.

[Not Chara]

what's your opinion on my questions about Creature's possible slip?

I think Creature's answer is more interesting than the question, and I'm not going to interrupt or derail it, unlike most other people in the game.

And if you want to know my reasons for voting McMenno,

I think that may be the ONLY thing you can find in my ISO.

yes, thank you for proving my point with the bolded. i wasn't questioning your reasons, i'm questioning if you're playing the game outside of looking at McMenno.
what on earth would you be derailing? there's nothing to interrupt or derail, i asked a question and Creature gave me nothing in return. i'm pushing for more because his reasons for wanting to start a Cakez wagon there are incredibly suspect.
what's interesting about Creature's hinting? do you think it's role-related? that he got a reason to suspect Cakez in the middle of the day, but isn't interested in pursuing that except as a wagon option that he brought up and no one bit into?

[Not Chara]

Magna: they had scumreads before. i'll believe that the Firebringer vote was for a reaction, but either zakk has scumreads or they do not. for someone who wanted a unified townblock, i find it strange that they voted outside wagons at this stage in spite of their claim that they don't have proper scumreads.

[Not Chara]

no, i haven't. i will, if you think there's something there to analyze.
their abandonment of the townbloc tells me zakk either gave up on the idea, or got frustrated. i thought it was a good idea. i doubt that it's that they lost their townreads on the block, because in their own words, they don't have many (or any) scumreads.
tell me what you think about Creature, in relation to what i believe i found.

[Not Chara]

being reminded of reasons why SirCakez is scummy isn't so bad by itself. reads change. it's that he couldn't point to

where

made his reads change when i asked. he just avoided the question.
the only mention of SirCakez as scum that i think Creature could have come across ("oh, right") is my own post. i think he misunderstood it as a scum case and didn't read it, just put Cakez on the table right then as a possible mislynch.

[Not Chara]

without an alternative explanation from Creature about what happened, my only conclusion is he's scum. who didn't read the spoiler.
i only want to lynch Creature or Titus today, barring new information.

[Not Chara]

yes, you answered me about your sudden vote hop with Titus->Firebringer->Titus.
what are your reads after your catchup?

[Not Chara]

there's nothing to respond to until zakk has caught up.
meanwhile, everyone should look at this.

Sorry, I don't like explaining every single thing I do.

so, you can't explain your turnaround read on Cakez? or why you brought this up conspicuously right after my 2651?
also: my 2659, 2669, and 2672.

i think Creature saw my spoiler for Cakez, thought i was advocating for a Cakez wagon because he didn't read it, and pretended to say 'oh, yes, i could also lynch Cakez'. this is despite an earlier townread on Cakez and nothing i could find to indicate Creature has changed his mind.
i was looking for him to point to a reason that he would want to wagon Creature. all i can see is my post.
you should explain, Creature. that you avoiding doing so is tantamount to telling me i'm right.
VOTE: Creature

i want everyone's opinion on this.

Andrius, you caught me when lacking time so i'm just quoting this. you asked three questions and all of them are answered in the above post.

i want either Creature or Titus dead.

unless

someone comes up for an explanation as to why Creature is not scum here, and where he got the Cakez wagon idea from. which you haven't. fascinating.

saying that i'm abandoning my Titus read for this is plain wrong. it's wrong because i still think Titus is scum (a fact which Magna apparently understood, even if you did not), and it's wrong that you think my Creature read has anything to do with zakk. it was in direct response to Creature's post, which i have pointed out

numerous

times.

you can't actually refute me, so you're just repeating yourself by bringing up points i've already displayed that you're wrong on.

[Not Chara]

Cakez: <3
what do you think of Andrius's 'case'?
or his ignoring of Creature's behaviour?

note to everyone in this game. i use it/its or they/them. i hope i don't sound like a broken record, but the defaulting to 'she' is really annoying.

[Not Chara]

i want either Creature or Titus dead. unless someone comes up for an explanation as to why Creature is not scum here, and where he got the Cakez wagon idea from. which you haven't. fascinating.

saying that i'm abandoning my Titus read for this is plain wrong. it's wrong because i still think Titus is scum (a fact which Magna apparently understood, even if you did not), and it's wrong that you think my Creature read has anything to do with zakk. it was in direct response to Creature's post, which i have pointed out numerous times.

Million Dollar Question - if you think both are scum why did you move from a viable wagon on Titus to effectively a Vanity wagon on Creature with potential deadline (I obviously agree with Andrius's thinking on the subject) looming?

because what i'm viewing as a slip trumps my reads.
tell me, where's Creature, and why can't he answer my question?
this is also a lot easier to prove than Titus!scum. or, it should be, if players would read my freaking posts on the subject.
it's not a vanity wagon. Leon joined, Cakez expressed approval, Gamma expressed approval, and even zakk, who's voting me, agrees that Creature needs to get in here and give me a proper answer.

if we're talking about vanity wagons, then look at Andrius, Mr. 'deadline is fast approaching', electing to start yet another wagon. (at the time, he thought he was the only voter there.)

[Not Chara]

if you're convinced that titus is scum then why are you still taking all these potshots at me

quote me taking potshots at you.
you haven't answered why Creature isn't scum based on what i've outlined. that's currently my only problem with you. but i have that problem with the majority of the playerlist.

[Not Chara]

huh. i'd forgotten that happened.
in that case, i guess we do have a problem. it was pretty bad. that's just objective.
am i supposed to ignore other players doing scummy things because Titus is more scum?

and, that wasn't a potshot. that was me calling you out for doing something that you'd just done.

[Not Chara]

there's nothing to respond to until zakk has caught up.
meanwhile, everyone should look at this.

Sorry, I don't like explaining every single thing I do.

so, you can't explain your turnaround read on Cakez? or why you brought this up conspicuously right after my 2651?
also: my 2659, 2669, and 2672.

i think Creature saw my spoiler for Cakez, thought i was advocating for a Cakez wagon because he didn't read it, and pretended to say 'oh, yes, i could also lynch Cakez'. this is despite an earlier townread on Cakez and nothing i could find to indicate Creature has changed his mind.
i was looking for him to point to a reason that he would want to wagon Creature. all i can see is my post.
you should explain, Creature. that you avoiding doing so is tantamount to telling me i'm right.
VOTE: Creature

i want everyone's opinion on this.

I'm glad I didn't get my hopes up, Chara.
Because this is... not as significant as 'slip' conveys.
sigh

are you telling me you didn't read it before?

are you telling me you missed the part where i was fucking asking if it was a slip or not???? i'm trying to figure out if it is and no one can give me a damned straight answer. and Creature disappeared after avoiding my question. seriously. ISO us together.

[Not Chara]

No I saw that you asked if it was a slip or not and then I asked you questions since you voted him and then asked people to confirm your thoughts.
Also relatively NO ONE is responding to your thing so take that as you will.
shrug

i'm asking if you read the original post or just skimmed over it.
i asked if it was a slip then and then asked the same here and linked back. did you read it when you were first reading up or didn't you?
no one is responding, are they.
Creature's going to coast by dropping off the map and lurking because that's exactly what scum would do in this situation on day 1, because it's a large and they can get away with it.

i'm tired and i don't want to do this anymore. every time i respond to accusations, i'm ignored. the players scumreading me just continue to repeat the same tired statements that aren't true in the first place.
and SirCakez is probably scum too for not jumping on the bandwagon and actually engaging with me because that would be just my luck too.

i have this feeling that the scumteam as a whole has just decided to push me all together, because scumteams don't normally do that and they think they can get away with grouping up.

Cakez probably isn't scum, scum have no reason to take my side here or even listen to me at all, because those scumreading me are coasting by on flimsy words. i'm just being ignored here, largely.

[Not Chara]

I have a feeling Not Chara and Titus are on rival scum teams but neither of them wants to push each other such that wagons actually have any sticking power.

what else should i say about Titus???? i've exhausted myself on that front.
no one is listening about Creature or about Titus and i've done all i can and it hasn't helped. i've never been so frustrated.
half of my posts get ignored by the players i'm talking to and no one gives a shit. Titus is still skirting around the issue of my wagon like she's afraid to touch it.

[Not Chara]

i moved to CREATURE because i thought i'd found something there. my post calling him out was right after the questionable post i wanted to check out. there's no fucking relation to the votes on me or the sentiment against me. Creature responded like scum. no one cared.

i tried to dig and tried to get opinions and reads. i've engaged. i haven't hid this entire game.
despite what i just said i really doubt that most of the scumteam is trying to get me lynched right now.

[Not Chara]

thinking on it more, multiball would make sense here. with how this day is going.
if my posts keep getting ignored, i'm going to take a break. if i get lynched, fuck it. Titus and Creature are scum. it's probable there are multiple scum pushing me now.

also: McMenno is selectively responding, his latest contribution is entirely to complain that i've been taking potshots. i think he's even still voting Narna.
who is town here? probably Cakez, Nahdia, Narna.
multiball is likely, so Titus and McMenno can both be scum. zakk could be scum. Andrius and magna? i don't want to say both are scum, but one of them probably is.

[Not Chara]

Firebringer is town too.

[Not Chara]

fine.
VOTE: McMenno

[Not Chara]

@Fire I'm thinking of re-evaluating some of my reads. Some of them were kind of just gut feelings that I'm not really getting again looking back (or I'm deciding my initial reasoning was bad). Your slot is one of the ones I'm not really sure why I townread though to be honest.

Translation - a mislynch is about to go through and I need to pretend to find reasons to push for others ....

this post isn't analysis. scum or really badly confbiased town, it sucks. likely the former.

Cakez: i saw your post requesting reasons for townreading Narna and Nahdia. Nahdia is in my ISO, Narna i haven't examined extensively, but i didn't like the push on his slot in the first place and nothing he's done has pinged me as scum. i can talk more about this on a later day, but i've been very busy.

pedit: yes, Magna has been doing that a lot. anything can be called scum if you put that kind of filter over it.

[Not Chara]

if McMenno doesn't go through, i give up.
two more votes needed.
and: any vigilante targeting Gamma is a terrible vig.

[Not Chara]

Firebringer: magna called for a vigilante on Gamma. for whatever reason.
Creature: ha. alright. i'll be waiting.

[Not Chara]

Creature would be an excellent shot.
'i don't know how to explain why i wanted to wagon Cakez there', my foot.

[Not Chara]

I don't know how to explain that pseudo-scumslip, I might do some time.

did i misread?

[Not Chara]

just confirm for me if that last line 'i might do some time' meant 'i might explain later'.

[Not Chara]

that wasn't what i was referring to. i was talking about 2742.

[Not Chara]

I never said that anyone couldn't scumread me for Pepto's behavior. I never faulted anyone for scumreading Pepto. There is no issue, and you misquote me saying, "don't scumread me for pepto." Here is my quote.

You asked McMenno to explain why Nhadia was less scummy than you without referring to Pepto or Giga.

How is that not explicitly saying "You can't hold the scumminess of my predecessor against me in your read on my slot"?

In "my piece" I already explained that I was trying to sort mcmenno, and wanted to know if I had made him more or less sure of his read.

it's almost like Magna just doesn't care what he says.

[Not Chara]

McMenno's claim is NIA.

[Not Chara]

McMenno's claim is NIA.

See like this. Surface level weak-ass posting.

You don't see the logical disconnect between what Gamma says he thinks about the game re:fake-claims and his stance that McMenno is scum for claiming that role.

surface-level weak-ass posting from Magna right here v:

it's almost like Magna just doesn't care what he says.

I'd make a snarky reply but I'm feeling good about you being scum so I don't expect logical content out of you ...

the post you quoted is me telling Gamma that McMenno's claim is NIA. it's what we in the business of doing so call communicating with other players.
no offense to Gamma meant, but sometimes he makes logical leaps that don't always work correctly. that's a weak case for vigging Gamma and you know it.

[Not Chara]

Cakez, of course the claim fits town flavour. there's no way the scumteam weren't given fakeclaims.
the role also fits sans. i've never seen a theme without fakeclaims. hence, the NIA claim.

sans judges the player near the end of the game for how many monsters they killed. it fits with coroner, who examines deaths.

[Not Chara]

I'll ISO you later
Narna got wagoned because his predecessor's replace out was awful and he's been doing jackshit to scum hunt
Why didn't you like the push on that?

I feel like McMenno is going to flip town :c
UNVOTE:

is this related to the claim or something different?
the replace out wasn't very good, but i don't think it deserved a wagon. a push, sure, but... even after that, Narna just didn't ping me. let me ISO Narna and look for hunting.

pedit: so it is. ugh, now i'm annoyed that i typed it the wrong way so many times.

[Not Chara]

Actually McMenno pointed out a good flavor fit. However, Lazy Cops on EM get their results on the Night after they chose their target. Hm.

Epicmafia is unrelated to this site. the setups are pretty different.
the flavour fits just fine. i'd expect it to fit very closely in general. we won't know for sure until more flips, but that's my belief.

[Not Chara]

Cakez: can you talk more about why McMenno is responding in a towny manner to being at L-1?
he hasn't given reads (besides Sly being town), his response being 'he isn't dead yet', and is mostly just talking about his role. the claim itself could just as easily be a fakeclaim as it could be real, and it's not a claim (example, a vigilante or doctor claim) where it would make sense to let the player live a couple of nights more.
is it tone? or something else?

i don't find replace-outs themselves alignment indicative. especially silent ones that tell us nothing. i don't think pepto was even being wagoned on his replace out. why was it so bad?
and Narna has been scumhunting. i've checked his reads progression, he hasn't been coasting on lack of content. what has McMenno done besides tell us to lynch Narna/pepto since the beginning of the game?

[Not Chara]

zakk: i'd lynch that.
what bothers me is that Menno made it all the way to L-1 and not one player hammered despite (in my opinion) any number of reasons to. why didn't scum see it through, if McMenno is town?

[Not Chara]

i know you do. do you think all or most of the scum were already on the McMenno mislynch, from your point of view?

[Not Chara]

we were so close. i want this day phase over.
lynchlist: Titus, Creature, Magna, McMenno, massive, Andrius

Sly: fair enough. are you factoring multiball into your thoughts there?

[Not Chara]

eh. i don't like tone as a reason to unvote there.
VOTE: Magna
Narna has been scumhunting more than Menno, who has barely hunted at all.
Titus is still scum but that wagon isn't happening today, unfortunately.

Cakez: i also agree with Narna on Magna's discreting strategies being terrible.

[Not Chara]

see first post. mod promises no role surprises.

[Not Chara]

Titus. you're not voting Magna.

[Not Chara]

Titus. you're not voting Magna.

With you pushing it, why would I want to? Either you're scum or your judgment is terrible this game.

I'd rather try to work with Andrius.

i didn't think you would want to either.
but:

Yume, Shiro, nos, Snarky, McMenno and Magna is mine.

[Not Chara]

Titus. you're not voting Magna.

With you pushing it, why would I want to? Either you're scum or your judgment is terrible this game.

I'd rather try to work with Andrius.

How can you know someone's judgement is terrible when you have zero flips to know that?

scumreading Magna.
'Fire and Chara are pushing Magna'
conclusion: not wanting to lynch Magna.

i know this isn't your first mafia game, Titus. when bussing is so common, with multiball a likely possibility in a large bastard game...
not to mention the 'or your judgement is terrible this game' line. so, you disagree with my judgement

so much

that it makes you ignore your own scumread on Magna? how does that even make sense?

so instead you start a vanity wagon on a scumlean to protect your scumread (Magna) and Narna... Titus, what's your read on Narna? granted, Narna is

another

vanity wagon, but it at least had more than (0) votes.
i started looking, but i can't find Titus giving a recent concrete stance on Narna. see 2412. from that, one can infer Narna is also a scumread, sort of?

why is Titus working against the collective so much on these wagons she's scumreading? oh, right. she's scum.

[Not Chara]

i think i need to reiterate that Titus is actively working against a wagon on her scumread because a different scumread happens to be pushing it. because. honestly.

Since he hopped on the McMenno wagon.

VOTE: Leonshade

Anyone? Please?

you were on McMenno too.
why is Leonshade scum for it?

He's not scum for it. He's scum, and I don't want to be on the same wagon as him.

PeregrineV has made some weird posts lately and has gone a bit down on my list.

NotChara on the other hand has started looking really genuine again and is getting bumped back up.

My god. You know how impossible it is to even get a decent wagon in this game, now you want me to get a scum wagon with no scum, while some of them are pushing my Mislynch. I am not God. Please suck it up.

and she complained about the lack of good wagons earlier.

see also: no reachout to your super townread Nahdia, Titus? Andrius is a single player in a large game. you aren't getting anywhere pretending to work with one (1) player.
Nahdia's voting Magna. are you of the opinion that Nahdia's judgement is also terrible? (despite them being very town to you)

[Not Chara]

Working against the collective just sounds like normal titus. Not scum or town telling

sure, but look at the context.

her McMenno tunnel finally reaches fruition, then stalls right at the end. what does Titus do during this? no pressing for a hammer at any point, just showing up after the wagon falls apart with 'oh, you all didn't lynch McMenno'.

Firebringer: exactly what i'm saying.

[Not Chara]

when your scumread you've been pushing

all game

reaches something close to a lynch, then the claim happens and some players drop off... what do you do? do you shrug your shoulders and say 'oh well, we'll get them next time'? maybe some particularly apathetic players might, but the majority wouldn't think of it. they'd double down.

especially Titus, if she were town.

add that to this behaviour around her supposed Magna scumread. and her very weak 'oh, but you're pushing him'.

[Not Chara]

Yume, Shiro, nos, Snarky, McMenno and Magna is mine.

Oh forgot nc, but that's like last resort level.

i'm an afterthought on this list, and Fire isn't even present.

McMenno also isn't voting his counterwagon.

[Not Chara]

above was a response to this post of Titus, by the way.

Titus is fine when her scum reads join her on a wagon.
But when a new wagon forms on a scum read of hers that she isn't pushing? She calls foul? Like what is this?

My scumreads (Fire and nC) are the driver and it's a counter to another scum read (McMenno). That's two neon signs I am wrong on Magna.

I am ok if scum bus, but they don't bus one to save another.

and you're wrong here. i wanted to lynch you or Creature above all else. zakk is driving this iteration of the Magna wagon.

i didn't start this counter. i wanted McMenno lynched.

[Not Chara]

come to think of it: why

am

i last resort level?
is it because i'll actually fight back, instead of Yume, Shiro, Snarky, and Nos?

[Not Chara]

Gamma: Titus and Creature were my top scumreads.
McMenno and Magna are also scumreads, Magna moreso.
i compromised on my lesser scumread on McMenno because i want a lynch, and now i'm more happily compromising on Magna.

i want him lynched.

i was correcting Titus on who was pushing the wagon this time, in terms of forcefully trying to pull it through.

[Not Chara]

if you read me and don't know why i'm scumreading Magna, there is no hope for you.

Creature turned around on Magna like that because Creature is scum.
i do agree that McMenno should have been hammered. i'm annoyed at those who are town who unvoted because of that claim.
busy. address me directly if you want a comment, i'll still be checking the thread.

[Not Chara]

Narna is a he. you should check a player's pronouns before correcting others, haha. :>

also: scum keep track of who they've pushed. forgetting about an earlier read based on new information is towny. forgetting in

general

is kind of a towntell. it's really easy to accidentally overwrite one's own memories.
however. the first point in 3235 is actually very good. i didn't realize at the time that Narna jumped off his top scumread onto Leon.
can you explain that, Narna?

pedit: Leon was faster.

[Not Chara]

going to ISO Narna and Magna together in a minute.
Magna is still much more likely scum, but i want to look at Narna's progression on McMenno to be sure.

[Not Chara]

unfortunately, i didn't have time to recheck Magna.

i looked, but i can't find why Narna decided to jump off McMenno there in the least. similarly to Titus, there's little pressing of the McMenno lynch to actually go through, after Narna rejoins it.

Narna, i'd like you to talk about what exactly is going on with your vote progression.

[Not Chara]

Shiro: Leon's post also altered

my

read of Narna, a bit.
voting Gamma here is very weak. enough with the vanity wagons. what's your Narna read?

a wagon forming quickly at this juncture is also a very weak reason to dislike it. we're (possibly) close to deadline, no one can agree on a lynch, and most of the players voting Magna now are ones that were voting him at some point before. simply calling it 'fast', so it's bad, is ignoring the entire context of its formation.

[Not Chara]

i hope you don't mean to wait for our old deadline to come to pass and risk a no lynch.

[Not Chara]

unfortunately, i didn't have time to recheck Magna.

i looked, but i can't find why Narna decided to jump off McMenno there in the least. similarly to Titus, there's little pressing of the McMenno lynch to actually go through, after Narna rejoins it.

Narna, i'd like you to talk about what exactly is going on with your vote progression.

Narna?

i never had a problem with your Magna read. i want to know about McMenno -> Leon.

[Not Chara]

Narna's more likely town than Magna is.

this is in line with what he's said previously on the subject. i misunderstood his first answer.

[Not Chara]

i wouldn't expect anything less than flavour references from Snarky, considering he modded his own Undertale game

it's an interesting theory. but i'm not so sure if Skullduggery would go so far as to punish us for lynching scum.

i wholeheartedly agree with you on Titus, obviously. :>

pedit: Titus is no where near obvtown.

[Not Chara]

but Snarky, you do need to hurry and vote Magna instead. he's likely her partner.

[Not Chara]

silent replace outs

are

NAI. i don't understand where you get information from that.

if would be one thing if pepto replaced out under pressure, but he wasn't under heat until after the replace.

Maxous: why am i your sole null read? i feel special.

[Not Chara]

i mean. at this stage of the game, Narna has been playing a lot more than pepto. the pepto wagon was an early game 'meh' wagon at best.

[Not Chara]

oh, right. Narna, the questioned you answered was about why your vote changed from Menno to Leon.you answered adequately.

[Not Chara]

i don't remember pepto's meta being brought up before. links?

[Not Chara]

i just went through pepto's game history.

that's pepto's only replace out in a scum game, as far as i can see. in a different scum game, he was lynched on day 1, and in another, his team won, and he didn't replace out.

that's hardly a history.

plus, in the game you linked, pepto didn't silently replace out, he publicallt replaced out and cited being busy as the reason.

[Not Chara]

Cakez: please check pepto's replace out in this game as well. pepto was town hre and his replace mirrors his scun replace in the game you linked.

[Not Chara]

what you have boils down to a single scum replace out that wasn't even done in the same way as this game, and a different town replace out that

was

similar to the scum replace out.

there is no meta backing up the replace out argument. it's still NAI.

[Not Chara]

oh. hello, Creature. are you ever going to tell me where you got the idea for the Cakez wagon? remember that?

[Not Chara]

Cakez: well, nothing i can do about that. i'll try to underline what made me want Magna lynched in the first place, tonight.

[Not Chara]

that wasn't what i was referring to. i was talking about 2742.

this, Creature. i corrected you last time.

that's twice you haven't answered about your Cakez wagon idea.

[Not Chara]

fuck, does it really?

only in bastard games should we worry about this. :<

i'll consolidate on the largest wagon when i get home, before the old deadline.

pedit: let's hear why. might as well. vote one of the wagons, Shiro.

Andrius and Titus need to stop voting shiro if either one is town.

[Not Chara]

if you're unvoting Narna, vote Magna. no one should not be voting.
how does you being unable to read me translate to a lean scumread, exactly?
Creature: my point was that there was no Cakez wagon. why did you say you'd join one, and what prompted that thought? those were my original questions.

[Not Chara]

but yes, there wasn't much wrong with pepto that warranted the wagon in the first place.

[Not Chara]

thinking on it more. i don't actually believe day will end at our original deadline. sure, the game is bastard, but it just seems...

plus, the message indicated not to rush, but to wait. i know that shoupd mean nothing, and i want to lynch in the interests of risk avoidance. but i don't really believe we're still constrained by the old deadline.

[Not Chara]

it's really disheartening to put effort into a game only to be called some variant of coasting scum for it.

pedit: that's a bad question. if you want to do counterwagon analysis, do it tomorrow.

[Not Chara]

the number of times i've actually

seen

scum line up lynches in the thread is inversely proportional to the number of players touting it as a scumtell.

[Not Chara]

not true, Snarky. i agree with you. i think the new deadline was real and the day would have simply continued had we not lynched/voted no lynch. but i wasn't sure, the risk didn't seem worth it, and

also

, Magna is scum.

[Not Chara]

so, Creature has still avoided/ignored addressing the 'for Cakez' thing since i brought it up. fantastic. and he's never going to until someone who isn't me pushes him about it.

zakk's an interesting kill. i'm going to take a look at their most recent readslist. did they soft their PR anywhere?
i don't want to think that we were terrible enough to have our competing wagons both be on town, but what exactly is the possibility of that? someone with more experience than me, kindly weigh in. from a play point of view, i still believe Narna is town. him being the other wagon there is about the only thing that bothers me.

i'd help with a McMenno lynch. he should have been hammered at L-1.

[Not Chara]

other slots that i dislike off the top of my head: Titus, Shiro, Giovanni.

[Not Chara]

...your point?
are you insinuating that the entire scumteam was on Magna, or that i should be hunting within the Magna mislynch for the scum? i've no doubt there's scum there, but most likely, they'll have spread themselves out.

[Not Chara]

Nahdia: what makes you confident about SlySly scum? from my experience in Watch Dogs, he seems no different. how do you separate scum SlySly from 'scummiest player on the site but still town' SlySly?

VOTE: Giovanni
would still like an answer on the Narna vs. Magna wagons issue.

[Not Chara]

i didn't mean that you should be reading him from that game. i wanted an explanation on why he's scummy to you. i couldn't find one in your ISO that isn't covered by Sly's nonstandard play. even now, i can see what town!Sly is trying to achieve here.

why is Titus town?

[Not Chara]

local man was right about a mislynch being on town. thinks all those on the wagon are idiots or scum. more at eleven.

[Not Chara]

<3 Gamma.
very busy today.
VOTE: McMenno

Andrius: it's just my avatar.

[Not Chara]

bastard game, not sure. i don't trust his role softing as far as i can throw it. route-related abilities aren't exclusive to Frisk, either.

Ankamius, on the other hand, is likely town.
i'm also thinking i might be wrong about Titus.

Creature, why did it take so long to get you to admit you didn't read the spoiler labeled 'for Cakez' and were willing to join a wagon there?

i don't think Shiro is town. i don't like their play and i don't like their flavourclaim. sorry for the bare-bones post, i'm in a hurry.

pedit: 'witch hunt' from one post about it, Andrius?
the name 'N clan' makes me slightly uncomfortable.

pedit again: hahaha. watch as Andrius accuses town players of being too afraid to give concrete opinions, whenever they attempt to discuss ideas with the thread at large. tremble in fear as he jumps on the slightest bit of uncertainty.
so, Andrius. i'm assuming this means scum!Nahdia is afraid of their buddy McMenno being lynched?

[Not Chara]

Titus has been okay with lynching me for a while. are you suggesting that it's only affecting my play

now

?
who was suggesting you were an SK? they said 3p.

[Not Chara]

there is more subtlety to mafia than the separation of players into amazing scumhunters and terrible ones that scum want kept alive. your entire view here is incredibly black and white. you're annoyed about Magna so every decision you make now revolves around him, and you've gone blind to the possibility of him acting scummy and prompting town players to misread him.
it makes you town, but it also makes you exhausting to speak to.
Leon is also likely town. i think i forgot to mention that in ny previous post.

[Not Chara]

Leon: your posts in general have been better today. probably because you now have time to devote.
what prompted me to say you were town was, i remember, you saying that 'all of your reasons for scumreading Narna have been exposed as crap' and your desire to reevaluate based on that. it's similar to how i feel about Narna. he looks vaguely town, and none of the arguments against him hold up against scrutiny.

[Not Chara]

the problem is this. Narna has played 90% of the game for that slot. the pepto wagon was based on very little, and the so-called scumtell of replacing out, also proved to be wrong.

[Not Chara]

the scumtell based on pepto having a meta of silently replacing out? blatantly false, from pepto's past games. that's 'proved' plenty.

[Not Chara]

Next you're gonna try to tell me giga's replace out was proven not scummy. LOL

you can prove meta, to an extent. this is unrelated to giga.

tell me why pepto was scum. or quote it.

[Not Chara]

i could see how you'd come to that conclusion. i'm also looking at your reasoning here through the lens of you being town.

the thing is. i do agree that you were reaching with the grapevine comments. but that discussion is over and done with, and i wouldn't like to rekindle it. so i don't take issue with pepto thinking the same.
the second post you quoted isn't buddying giga, it's explaining a reason for a townread after being asked to do so. there isn't much strange about that.
pepto also wasn't saying that anyone was third-party. they were saying the their scumread (yourself) was pushing giga, so that made giga seem town to them. they were saying it was

possible

that giga was an anti-town third party who was being pushed by scum, but without evidence actually pointing in that direction, there was no need to think giga was 3p.

that about sums up my thoughts, and why i still am not reading Narna as scum. but i appreciate you explaining your thought process to me here.

[Not Chara]

this game

probably

has scum players with scum flavour. it's possible this isn't true, but without reason to believe otherwise i'm not going to start speculating.

referring to 3873, and to SlySly: i believe flavour is related to role. Papyrus makes sense as a flavourcop, for one, and whether McMenno's role is his real one or a mod-provided fakeclaim, it also fits with sans. my role fits as well. that seems to be standard for themes, along with characters relating to their alignments. a quick check says that seems to hold true for Skullduggery as well?

the issue with Asriel is that he's the same character as Flowey. again, i don't know what Skullduggery planned, they may have made Flowey a separate character for some reason or just not included him at all. Asriel is a weird claim to me, as a miller and an investigative. the former works... sort of. but in the narrative Asriel isn't a miller type in the least. no one besides the protagonist even knows he's one of the villains, and they never learn that. the investigation power is even more baffling to me.

[Not Chara]

I mean, maybe the investigative has to do with the fact that I am also flowey. Flowey was quite the stalker.

does your role PM mention Flowey, or does it not?
why did you select McMenno to investigate?

Nosferatu: i disagree. flavour can indicate alignment and not be broken, even with the inclusion of a flavour cop. especially in cases of differing points of view. i'm not making major decisions based on that until we see a scum flip, either way. i've read a lot of themes, and gone through Skullduggery's modding history. someone is free to contradict me, but in both, there's a correlation between flavour and alignment.

[Not Chara]

hello, Almost! nice to see you. thanks for replacing in.
and thank you for staying, Firebringer. i'm sort of with you on the 'Titus is possibly town' issue.

[Not Chara]

Peregrine: it's unclear. the Gaster abilities so far have been anti-town either way. there's no pro-town reason to 'extend the deadline to save zakk' even if they

were

town, it just sows uncertainty. that wasn't the only reason presented, either. extending the deadline is good for general confusion and apathy.
are you trying to say that Gaster isn't anti-town, or is this a genuine question?

Almost50 is town by virtue of Gamma being town.
Nahdia also hasn't been lurking at all. this day in general has been more slowly paced than day 1, but Nahdia has been one of the more active posters during it.

pedit: Nahdia already translated the first part. the second is a vote-count, and would take a very long time to translate for little payoff. unless you think there's something different/important hidden in there?

[Not Chara]

i'm pretty confident that Snarky is town here.
i'm not really scumreading McMenno strongly. but i don't think Narna is scum, and i really doubt we went through three different town wagons (well four, if you count zakk's?) on day 1.
however, i also think Shiro could be scum, and they're definitely not on a team with McMenno. so... one of these is wrong, but i don't know which.

and then there's Creature, who's done an excellent job so far of consistently ignoring my questions directed at him.

so far, my probably town group includes Cakez, Maxous, Peregrine, Nahdia, Firebringer, Ankamius, SlySly, Snarky, Narna, Leonshade.
that leaves Giovanni, Creature, Titus, Shiro, Nosferatu, McMenno, Andrius, massive.
but i'd prefer to lynch in those i'm scumreading than those i'm simply not townreading.
i also don't want to lynch Andrius, because his role is sort of obvious. i'm more suspicious that his role involves alignment-switching more than anything else. the Genocide abilities aren't exactly comforting.

[Not Chara]

(expired on 2016-11-10 20:00:00)

i had time and translated this.

it says, exactly:

Day 2, Vote Count #11

Current Vote Count:
(0) SirCakez
(1) Giovanni il Pellegrino -- SnarkySnowman
(0) Maxous
(0) Creature
(0) PeregrineV
(0) Titus
(1) Shiro -- Maxous
(0) Nosferatu
(0) Nahdia
(0) Firebringer
(0) Not Chara
(0) Ankamius
(0) SlySly
(9) McMenno -- Narna, Titus, massive, Shiro, Not Chara,
Nahdia, PeregrineV, Leonshade, Giovanni il Pellegrino
(0) SnarkySnowman
(6) Narna -- SirCakez, Creature, Ankamius, McMenno, Almost50, Firebringer
(0) Almost50
(0) Leonshade
(0) Andrius
(0) massive

Not Voting: Nosferatu,

Ankamius,

SlySly

With 20 votes available,

it takes 22 votes to hammer

.

Day 2 Will End on Thursday, November 20th, at 8 p.m.
eastern time.
Countdosn:
[insert countdown here]

all spelling including capitalization has been preserved. it looks like there isn't any hidden information in the obfuscated votecounts.

Skullduggery: i believe the bolded parts are errors in the posted votecount.

[Not Chara]

Just don't tell me some of your townreads are because you think someone else is scum.

not in the least. what prompted you to say this?

also, you didn't answer 3788.

[Not Chara]

nevermind. that's my own mistranslation. the number of votes to hammer should be 11, which is correct.

[Not Chara]

why were you concerned about whether you could explain it effectively? why ignore the question until you'd prepared what you thought was a satisfying answer?

[Not Chara]

really. how many players think ~5 scum are all piled onto McMenno?

today and yesterday, there have been far too many lynch decisions made based on reads on who is voting a wagon instead of who is most likely scum. there's a reason pre-flip VCA is a terrible idea.
Titus, where are you? if you're town, you should be trying to get McMenno lynched before the wagon dissolves at L-1 again.
players are making decisions based on who their pet scumreads are at this point. on

day two.

where's the reevaluation? i can count the players who appear to be actively hunting instead of just counting scumreads on wagons on one hand.

[Not Chara]

to reiterate, since the two above posts were made while i was typing that:

this is not the day for VCA

.

i'm considering jumping ship to Creature, because this is ridiculous.
see his posts today, specifically the answers to me. concern about how he looks more than just playing the game. taking an eternity to respond to questioning because he

really

wanted to think about his answer. very little scumhunting.

[Not Chara]

see my comment on snarky wrt creature

if you're saying that Creature is a lurker as either alignment, then you should know that isn't my point.

there's a difference between lurking, and continuing to post while ignoring questions and being concerned about how one is being viewed, overly so.
can you quote your reasons for Narna-scum?

[Not Chara]

nevermind. your ISO isn't that long.

[Not Chara]

so, i went over your pepto reasoning. did Narna do anything to alter that read?
the original reasoning for voting pepto is in 257.
essentially it's scumreading SlySly, who is lynchbait, and being hypocritical with regards to calling Creature noncommital and yet having mostly null reads themself.

two things: does the definition of lynchbait not include that town would also find SlySly scummy, and is hypocrisy actually a scumtell?

i can't find anything besides that one single post on

why

pepto was ever scum to you. no reevaluation? during the entire game nothing changed or made you think that your tunnel might be incorrect?

[Not Chara]

I don't think McMenno is scum.

where did you McMenno scumread go, and why?

[Not Chara]

Skullduggery: i believe the bolded parts are errors in the posted votecount.

Translation:

There are no errors in post 4010.

UNVOTE:

Let's all slow down. Not Chara, did you rush that VC translation or are you sure it's completely correct?

yes, there were errors. i didn't rush it, but i did make mistakes.

Andrius is voting Narna, not Ankamius. Ankamius isn't voting. the rest was right.

the current count is now, not including your unvote, 10 votes for McMenno, and 7 votes for Narna.

[Not Chara]

-SNIP-

Significant "errors" include the hammer being struck at 22 votes, and Ankamius having a second vote which is currently unassigned.

Doing a quick translation of the errored parts, it looks like it does actually say "11" and not "22".

yes, i corrected myself on the 11-22 error in my next post.

[Not Chara]

Skullduggery: i believe the bolded parts are errors in the posted votecount.

Translation:

There are no errors in post 4010.

UNVOTE:

Let's all slow down. Not Chara, did you rush that VC translation or are you sure it's completely correct?

yes, there were errors. i didn't rush it, but i did make mistakes.

Andrius is voting Narna, not Ankamius. Ankamius isn't voting. the rest was right.

the current count is now, not including your unvote, 10 votes for McMenno, and 7 votes for Narna.

i'm just being terribly confusing. Skullduggery didn't make any errors, i did. this is me correcting my own translation.

[Not Chara]

so, i went over your pepto reasoning. did Narna do anything to alter that read?
the original reasoning for voting pepto is in 257.
essentially it's scumreading SlySly, who is lynchbait, and being hypocritical with regards to calling Creature noncommital and yet having mostly null reads themself.

two things: does the definition of lynchbait not include that town would also find SlySly scummy, and is hypocrisy actually a scumtell?

i can't find anything besides that one single post on

why

pepto was ever scum to you. no reevaluation? during the entire game nothing changed or made you think that your tunnel might be incorrect?

McMenno?

[Not Chara]

it's also a silly claim to make as scum.
lack of N1 investigation would make Narna look bad, and unless scum has a rolecop result on massive (which... is doubtful) or massive is on Narna's team, it would be risky to make a claim that massive could possibly refute if he actually had a killing ability.

however, Narna's role is surprisingly powerful, given the flips. but either way, i don't want to lynch him on principle for more investigations.

if true, it would indicate town killing power. Andrius is one, there are probably more.

why did you check Cakez, Shiro?

[Not Chara]

Fire, did you actually gift to everyone, or was that a joke?

[Not Chara]

I am getting this feeling this is a role madness.

were you treating this bastard large theme as something other than role madness before?

[Not Chara]

I mean, I don't see the pro-town motivation in using such a powerful role on massive of all people.

why would scum target massive with an ability that checks if someone can kill or not?
it seems an odd choice to me. if they had such a role-cop esque ability, there are better targets.

[Not Chara]

My role includes a killing component.

Can we use it as a dual lynch?
Where are the kills?

As long as we keep making really bad lynches, I'm not making a single kill this game.

...is this you calling the Narna lynch a bad one?