Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]
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but srsly...
i have no idea what any of that means.-
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in my official capacity as someone who knows mollie...
i still have no clue what that means-
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there was never a point i came to in the post where i thought "these reads are legit"
that's what makes me think it was something cobbled together to sound good.
i don't know what "context" there's supposed to be for this.-
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oh yeah... she calls that "the town herd"In post 2251, Titus wrote:Given my slowness to learn, that's probably my fault. While I am all about relationships in group dynamics (this wagon is on scum bc town vote and stall), mollie is more about this guy will/won't get lynched bc thread interest and vote motion as it happens. She's never been big on explaining reads but just seeing and controlling the wave of people and what each person will/won't do.
...
i still don't know the relevance to this. sorry.-
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i mean.... you can help me by talking more about reads and why you have themIn post 2256, ɀefiend wrote:I made a catch-up post because I believe it beneficial for myself and others who want to productively engage with me in syncing with the game.
I did the exact same thing when I replaced at a similar point in the game in RC's League of Legends Mafia: gave my opinion on all the players, said who my top townreads were, and said who I was willing to lynch. I also talked about major talking points I would like to consider while moving forwards.
If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.
maybe start w/ infinity?-
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ok, like this. here's a concrete assertion about infinity and what he's done.In post 2084, ɀefiend wrote:I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning.
when did this happen and where was it scummy?-
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errrrrkIn post 2261, ɀefiend wrote:Then in reply to Nero, he concocts a moonshine gasoline theory that my conversation with Nero was pre-emptively setting myself up to push for a mastina lynch later on.
ok so here's your reply to nero in question:
i'm also wondering why you caved so easily when nero challenged you on the mastin townread. that was supposedly one of two confident townreads you said you had in your first post and that gets washed out by... what exactly? you didn't consider the possibility of mastin bussing, nero had to bring it up first?In post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.
As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.
i would think you'd stand up for the read more than you did.
staying out of nero's way. bend the read without necessarily breaking.In post 2261, ɀefiend wrote:What the hell are my motivations with progressing a fake read on mastina from town to scummy?
i like moonshine gasoline as much as the next guy, but i don't think it's crazy.-
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ok i guess i'll wait for the quote compilation because i'm not even following the basic structure of the argumentIn post 2262, ɀefiend wrote:
Can't dig up to quote the exact posts b/c mobile, butIn post 2260, Heartless wrote:
ok, like this. here's a concrete assertion about infinity and what he's done.In post 2084, ɀefiend wrote:I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning.
when did this happen and where was it scummy?
Towards the end of D1, with around 3 real-life days left, he is getting antsy about wagons and expresses discontent with trying to move the current wagon. Several people tell him his worries are unfounded. In reference to "admitting" something, I also recall him saying something along the lines of "I'd rather lynch town than no one." When push came to shove, though, he had no qualms about actually moving the wagons around. I may have to review the timings of those D1 wagons to get a better picture but overall, I don't think his voting nature was genuine and I would definitely describe it as opportunistic.-
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yesIn post 2323, Infinity 324 wrote:
Can someone else verify this?In post 2316, mastina wrote:Maybe they change details. Maybe they omit details. Scum have an ability only scum would ever have? That might be absent from the town version of their claim. But they keep it as close to the theme material as possible. They match safeclaims as closely to the original as possible.
mastin is right on this count-
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no no noIn post 2270, ɀefiend wrote:Feel like I'm talking to a brick wall but here goes.
i UNDERSTAND what you're trying to sell just fine.
i'm just not buying it for a second. who softens a hard townread on the say-so of a mixed read and a null read? nobody (nobody town anyway). no sale.
and you didn't even bother to ask nero or pv for a specific game that illustrated their point so don't try to give me anything about deference-
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cake plz vote zefiend
mastin plz vote zefiend-
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no don't give me thatIn post 2341, SirCakez wrote:Titus will get away though <.<
zefiend is scum. you see it. i see it.
let's get this done.-
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what aj is referring to as zefiend's "flailing" (kind of an imprecise word, imo) is well on the baseline i've seen from his scumgame. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65913In post 2344, Nero Cain wrote:I'd argue that flailing is 10x more likely to come from town than scum.-
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if we're around and we're scumreading herIn post 2355, SirCakez wrote:Will you help lynch Titus tomorrow?
yes-
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yeah.... what i see is a bunch of quotes and i STILL have no idea what the conclusion i'm supposed to draw from them is. what's supposed to be out-of-sorts here?In post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:Read them and tell me there is no inconsistency with Infinity's mannerisms towards EoD D1.
so throwing a bunch of quotes at me constitutes the good faith effort on your part and now it's back on me?In post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:By the way, you are no longer engaging me in good faith. I have tried to explain everything to you. Despite you saying that you understand my points, you are conf-biasing based on my entry post. Your DEFAULT is to assume everything I'm saying afterward is bullshit even though I'm being transparent as possible with my thought process. There is no productive development here.
nice try, but that's not "engagement"
....and the fact that you had that game on-hand tells me you're very ACUTELY aware of the meta so... no, no townie-points for you.In post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:1) I showed you a game that you were in where I did the exact same sort of catch-up post as town
given that the probability of townreads are FAR more likely to be accurate than scumreads just through sheer numbers, this is a very illogical habit, but whatever...In post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:2) you assume me to be the type of player who holds my town-reads in high esteem when I am quite the opposite,
now you're misstating my issue. the issue isn't "taking other people's opinions into account." it's "there's this strange absence of YOUR own judgment and/or curiosity in this WHOLE process." that should be present even when you're taking other people's opinions into account. ESPECIALLY when the "other people" are null reads. unless you're in the habit of taking null reads' opinions at face value and there's no fucking wayIn post 2361, ɀefiend wrote:and you claim that because I didn't ask Nero & Pere for games, I shouldn't take their opinion into account-
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oh and, you know, i'm glad you brought up RC's game again because i remember IMMEDIATELY townreading that catchup (because you were town that time) so no you can't claim i'm just scumreading style-
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cakez, please vote zefiend-
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NOW we're not even talking about the same eventIn post 2370, ɀefiend wrote:How was I not taking my own judgment into account? As a first time player with mastina I picked up on a pure tonal read on her which led me to believe she was town. As the only person who commented on her tone this game (besides perhaps herself) how can you assert that my independent thoughts weren't going into this process?
^this is talking about the formulation of the initial mastin "read"
i was talking about how you approached PV and nero's input-
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what were these points?In post 2370, ɀefiend wrote:That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina-
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who am i "attacking"? what are u talking about?In post 2376, Titus wrote:Heartless, when can we take out the trash and you stop attacking people who disagree with you? They've silenced everyone else.-
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are you scumreading zefiend?In post 2393, SirCakez wrote:So you aren't scumreading her. This is a problem.
do you trust me+tth's judgment?
if the answers to both those are yes, then there really is no problem at all. i am asking you to vote a scumread.
cake, plz vote zefiend-
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if you really think this, your own grasp on the gamestate is quite tenuousIn post 2406, Titus wrote:To be clear Heartless, you're SRing people who disagree with you (zefiend) and ignoring the the whole gamestate.-
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i suggest you read the exchange before dismissing itIn post 2406, Titus wrote:and you're just sitting there fighting with zefiend over lord knows what?-
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firebringer is actually pretty good about balance imoIn post 2408, Titus wrote:That might as well be a neon sign that balance is shit this game.-
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Infinity 324 wrote:Hey anti
Why is molla town againIn post 2233, Heartless wrote:
well there's really no unringing that bell now, so i think clarification is betterIn post 2231, Titus wrote:You're really close, but I think it would be antitown to push you there.
town, vanillaized claim/occam's razorIn post 2231, Titus wrote:Can you clarify your BBMolla read and why?
[i also happen to think molla's role being a scum role would prob create very problematic balance issues but i guess that's just me, what do i know about balancing setups?]-
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plz read it. IF NOTHING ELSE, read this:In post 2415, Titus wrote:I will read it again, but I got nothing useful out of it and a hankering to drink to understand. You basically jyst said scum catchup and word vomited to me.
In post 2237, Heartless wrote:in the opening post i feel like he's just sort of going through the motions and dryly pointing out things that MIGHT be scummy but there's really no direction to any of the thoughts and most all the reads just kind of end up in this weird limbo. i'm not really seeing any effort to go beyond surface level or any attempt to say what the most LIKELY situation is. it's the appearance of "gamesolving" without really solving anything.-
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i don't really think it's that important. if enough ppl vote him RL then fine but if we stay on also fine.In post 2420, TheWayItEnds wrote:yo heartless whats your position on making DP rogue leader-
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will doIn post 2419, Titus wrote:You should look at Smackdown.-
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i don't really have a good answer for that question because it is entirely possible the whole things a gambit.In post 2418, Infinity 324 wrote:The balance issues are fair. But why wouldn't molla gambit like that?
i just don't think it's likely.-
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uhhhhhhhhhhhhIn post 2465, Firebringer wrote:Sorry my mistake.
The answer to that is no.
There are circumstances where players can use more than 1 action, but in general no.
I should get my morning coffee.-
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ok so just to clarify on that:
mod, you're saying it is generally not possible for someone to use their special character ability and any normal ability they may have at the same time
~Character Special and Normal can be used at same time.Last edited by Firebringer on Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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huh?In post 2472, Titus wrote:Welp, TWIE and Molla just confirmed as town.-
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right about what?In post 2472, Titus wrote:I have been right all game.
i can't believe you'd call me an egoist and then turn around and say shit like this-
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mastina, plz vote zefiend-
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lolIn post 2519, Nero Cain wrote:So his town read on Mastina was shot to hell.-
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he says cakezIn post 2542, Drunken Piper wrote:
if this has not been done.In post 2170, Aj The Epic wrote:I'm going to just full on claim JailKeeper right here. Character name Mon Mothma.
would like to know targets from this one.-
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this variant of jk is rarely used on this siteIn post 2574, Drunken Piper wrote:it is my understanding the a JK, makes the "target" untargetable.
"no result" was not my result label.-
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you're missing the part where you say if pine targeted bbmolla or notIn post 2582, Drunken Piper wrote:I get the following results: No Result, X visited X,
or X visited no one, not complex.
I got that sir cakez visited no one.
so what am I missing here, but the fun?-
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while you're at it go ahead and vote himIn post 2605, Nero Cain wrote:
please be more specific.In post 2600, Drunken Piper wrote:I like the slot when it belonged to Aero.
Zef filling in makes it look shitty, and nothing like a hero.-
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oh noes u rly taught me a lesson in pronouns w/o antecedents-
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huehuehuehuehuehueheueheueheuek;lfajkdsjcodwie;382ncovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvp8429445555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555-
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yeah... no, you have now formally surrendered the right to bitch about "engagement" with me because the point of me asking was for you to state the reasoning IN YOUR OWN WORDS not to just glibly quote posts, which i can already see.In post 2612, ɀefiend wrote:
This is the bulk of the conversation with Pere and Nero about mastinIn post 2374, Heartless wrote:
what were these points?In post 2370, ɀefiend wrote:That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina
Spoiler:-
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i have seen this variation of jk used before on this site, but only by mods not from this site (i believe aero is one of these iirc)In post 2620, ɀefiend wrote:Aeronaut's interpretation of Jailkeeper in that game goes against what some of y'all are saying is normal/standard on MS.
the only precedence i can find of fire's is that he used the MS definition of jailkeeper in mass effect http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8174705-
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not about where i stand on bbmollaIn post 2628, mastina wrote:Am I wrong?
you do what you feel like you have to, mastin. if you don't trust my reads beyond zefiend, i can respect that. and i can see how you have a scumread on molla bc frankly his posting sucks. but i have a very hard time bringing myself to think that fire thought molla's role (as a scum role) would be acceptable w/ ari's role AND that rc would let that through, not to mention i think they would have a hard time balancing molla+pine's powers.-
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/hey neroIn post 2707, Nero Cain wrote:Do you think Cakez is scum Infinity?
i want to talk to you a little more about cakez. at around the beginning of the day in the rogue pt, we talked about this: infinity and tth thought cake was town but zefiend's Post 2615 reminded me of exactly why i didn't.
redirect the wagon to another, more lynchable target(s)In post 2706, Nero Cain wrote:I agree. How do you think scum react to their buddies getting wagoned?
In post 1178, SirCakez wrote:This Pine wagon sucks, I'd prefer any of Klingon, Thinker and AJ
tbh, it's actually spooking me a little on my zefiend read since i don't think crossbussing is likely here.
so... why is cakez town?-
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i'm not pushing, my intent was to be taken at face value. you voted cake for RL so i asked why you're townreading him.In post 2724, Nero Cain wrote:Why are you pushing on me?-
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can we lynch zefiend now?-
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molla, plz vote zefiend-
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i did
i didn't learn anything-
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i mean.... i didn't read the WHOLE game, but i did skim zefiend's ISO and i looked at the mod ISO for the VCs and it doesn't look like zefiend ever came under any significant pressure. so yeah... he was a lot lurkier but that's prob because everyone let him get away w it. in the game i saw him as scum (and got lynched d1) he wasn't lurky. pressure seems to make him more active.
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option d: i already did link it and you're just making noise
In post 2357, Heartless wrote:
what aj is referring to as zefiend's "flailing" (kind of an imprecise word, imo) is well on the baseline i've seen from his scumgame. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65913In post 2344, Nero Cain wrote:I'd argue that flailing is 10x more likely to come from town than scum.-
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seriously titus what is with this chip on your shoulder?
no, i'm not scumreading zefiend for disagreeing. with anything. if i end up being wrong about him, i'll own it. don't paint this as an ego trip.
and if i actually had something against you i would've either /outed or woto'd you from this game AND i wouldn't have even bothered replying to you. so... yeah that's a bunch of nonsense too.
snap out of it.-
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oh hey cakez, while you're here
why are you scumreading bbmolla?-
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note that i said that i wasn't ego tripping specifically because that's exactly what you accused me of doingIn post 2773, Titus wrote:I want to be able to talk to you and have some hope you will listen. If you view that as an ego trip, I will sub out.
"sentence structure" doesn't reveal that much about alignment to me. i would also challenge your characterization of zefiend's posting as "detailed." long winded, yes. but detailed, no. in fact, the details are very, very, very much wanting and when PRESSED for details all he seems to be able to do is throw quote walls at me Post 2361 and Post 2612In post 2773, Titus wrote:The very sentence structure in the game you linked was short bursts with little information. The zefiend here is long winded and detailed.
the CLOSEST he comes to what I would consider being "detailed" is actually the sircakez post Post 2615 which is the only redemptive part of an otherwise flat analysis
my ears are still open. they just haven't heard anything convincing.In post 2773, Titus wrote:So, yeah I have a bit of frustration. So either help me, or tell me to get out before I go insane with Nero's toxic crap and talking to a town with closed ears.
even a semi-plausible explanation of how the mastin read came to be would probably shut me up but it seems that a lot more words are being committed to telling me how awful i'm being than actually explaining a read.-
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we're on the same pageIn post 2789, Titus wrote:If I am right, you should see details and ignore the quotes getting in the way. If I am wrong and he struggles to put two coherent thoughts together, we'll lynch him.-
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why is twie town to you?In post 2809, SirCakez wrote:It's mostly PoE and for lack of content, which is why it's my weakest scumread.-
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i disagree with thatIn post 2814, mastina wrote:they do need an answer to strong town power roles like doctor and jailkeeper.-
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i guess mastin probably doesn't think i'm a competent reviewer-
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what point?In post 2818, SirCakez wrote:That's also a good point about Molla scum that I didn't realize-
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no baggage.
i would be one of the people she wouldn't know what to tell.In post 2816, mastina wrote:
If you think that:In post 2654, Drunken Piper wrote:I am a fucking jack of all trades.
-Town 2x vigilante
-Whatever the rogue crew has (including at least one kill ability as per Klingoncelt's death and their word)
-Jailkeeper
-JOAT (tracker, the Pine guilty power, some third power which fitting the other two would presumably be investigative)
-JOAT (redirector, deflector, rolestop)
...Plus anything else we have unclaimed (in addition to all the VT abilities, which aren't exactly weak!)...
...Is all town?
I don't know what to tell you.
Because no. Just fucking no. That's not a town composition which would ever make it past a competent review team, unless the scumteam's WEAKEST PR was Pine's 2x-Vanillaizer (which is a pretty damn strong role!).
BBMolla's role is a scum role. I guarantee it.
assuming all the PR claims are town, i think the setup is WELL within range of balance-able esp if fire went with a scumteam size of 4