Micro 941 | Brass and Shrapnel | Game Over!

[Night 3 Roses]

hardclaim Night 3 Bulletproof

VOTE: clidd



-D

[Night 3 Roses]

I see my Rose counterpart already voted.

Looking forward to this

-Ico

[Night 3 Roses]

last time i played this, we played it "normally", except there's no roleclaiming before a hammer (or ever before a massclaim), and we generally made the second scummiest person hammer

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

last time i played this, we played it "normally", except there's no roleclaiming before a hammer (or ever before a massclaim), and we generally made the second scummiest person hammer

-D

How do you even make the second scummiest person hammer?

err, something something Town consensus, "hammer or you'll be the lynch tomorrow". if memory serves, one person ended up not wanting to hammer because "no i townread them i'm not gonna hammer", we lynched them the next day, and they were scum, so it kinda worked?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

i think we ended up scrambling and getting someone else to hammer, since no-lynch is generally worse than any lynch. in an ideal world, yeah, pivot to that person immediately, but the issue was that we were very close to deadline (so even if we wanted to it would've been difficult) with a lot of people scumreading the person being wagoned anyway.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

it was pretty much the first scenario, yeah.
-D

[Night 3 Roses]

i may or may not have bullied george into changing his avatar back.

sorry holden.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Hardclaiming insane novice macho cop/doc watcher btw

Only a moron would claim it!

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Hardclaiming insane novice macho cop/doc watcher btw

Only a moron would claim it!

-D

Let's break down this post.

On surface level, this post is apperently attempting to to point out the logical conclusion that I, HoldenGolden, am calling myself a Moron. However, this post gets much deeper by using Emjoi Analysis (EA), where the real scummy intentions come alive. We all know that such a contradiction coming from a townie PoV would use either the (if you are a filthy casual) or (If you want a comedic option). Coupled with a lack of any other analysis besides EA, this is certainly a scummy attempt at discrediting my intelligence.

You not only get my Finger, but my own Arm of Suspicion

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

lets take a look at probabilities and such firstly: its going to be a lot to take in, so any help with this would be appreciated from anyone talented with math.

i'm Sometimes Not Shit at math, no promises though. i'm not sure what math has to do with it, past the 25%-50%-25% odds of our setup?

we should eliminate the extreme points because frankly ,we dont want to be in a

position where there's a unique power role missing

(well, other than the blank vigs. they are kinda stupid).

what do you mean by the bolded?

my brain hurts but essentially a vig that successfully shoots a supersaint can claim, especially when a bomb dies and no one else does.

why would this be helpful?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

lmao i'm sorry i'm still not getting it, what do you mean by "either no bomb or no supersaint"? there can be both in a game?

-D

pedit: good one but also why

[Night 3 Roses]

yoink

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

it first rolls how many "non-vigs" there are and then it's a coinflip between bomb/SS, not sure what's the difference

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

no no no, sorry
coinflip between each non-vig slot

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

each slot individually has 50/50 odds of being one or the other
sorry if i'm explaining bad it is 2 am and i am tired

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

10 total players?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

last run of the setup, we first only claimed either vig or non-vig to create the "pools", and later on when it came down to planning some other stuff fullclaimed.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

lets take a look at probabilities and such firstly: its going to be a lot to take in, so any help with this would be appreciated from anyone talented with math.





we should eliminate the extreme points because frankly ,we dont want to be in a position where there's a unique power role missing (well, other than the blank vigs. they are kinda stupid).

now we are probably never going to find out which setup we are in based on claims ever, since we have no claiming etc. but we can plan based on likely outcomes of setup rolling.


There's not much depth to strategy however I have discovered a couple scenarios that DO help town gain clears and narrow down things via the n1 flips. (I agree with no claims d1 but post d1 we should 100% consider it)
(im actually incredibly tired after getting all this info up but also is of note that we shouldn't even think about scum lynched d1 because d1 scum lynched is stripped of their power to self protect and must RB others, and even NK and hope vigs kill eachother)

my brain hurts but essentially a vig that successfully shoots a supersaint can claim, especially when a bomb dies and no one else does.

you expect me to read this because then i've got some baaaad news for ya

-Ico

[Night 3 Roses]

My vote on Holden stays. Most awkward guy so far.

awkward how and why do you think it's not just RVS?

[Night 3 Roses]

I MADE A FATAL MISTAKE IN MY GRAPH

was the mistake making a graph?

[Night 3 Roses]

Posts so far have given me a sense of playing a "safely helpful" game; decent post volume but all of the game content is focused around trying to solve the role puzzle or info dropping (such as details about a previous game that used this setup), which doesn't require any real alignment-related effort. Basically active lurking.

checks kilgamayan's iso
no setup related efforting
no allignment spewing or solving related efforting
is voting us for efforting and calling it active lurking

okaay

yo datisi is it ok if I start tunneling this?

-Ico

[Night 3 Roses]

yoink!

-Ico

[Night 3 Roses]

My vote on Holden stays. Most awkward guy so far.

Talk about awkward.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

@DKKoba, I don't really get what you're saying about Holden? Do jokes count as WIFOM? and why am I not in the same level of consideration? Heck, I was the one who brought up the two of us being scum together.

As for the PR talk, I'm going to sit out. I took a semester of clowning at community college, all this math is way above my head. I'll just go with whatever the town consensus is.

P-edit: You and I can RVS as long as you like, but if you change your avatar you're dead to me.

agree with this, pinged me as well

[Night 3 Roses]

@Kilga, how do you feel about CJ sheeping you?

[Night 3 Roses]

@Kilga, how do you feel about CJ sheeping you?

I am okay with it given I felt worse about you

them

than him when I posted. It helps that 158 is pretty much exactly the response I intended to give to 150, which itself feels like a disingenuous response. Particularly since (a) it doesn't make an attempt to address why my accusation is wrong, and (b) it doesn't differentiate between our post volumes. I would say someone who doesn't post a lot but offers alignment opinions when they do is townier than someone that does post a lot but doesn't offer alignment opinions, regardless of the actual content of those posts.

your own iso up to that point was 4 posts, all of which were either setup talk or non-game related, pot-calling-kettle-black. before i fell asleep, the only discussion so far was Setup Spec, the few KobavTux posts, and some people wanting to vote Holden (which I actually did ask about but got ignored).

i don't understand what you mean by (b)?

{gigant-o quote stripe removed for visual clarity}

Given your typing style, its not hard to deduce who you really are lol.

To be clear, is Hoctac actually an alt of a regular player?

yes.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

What's your thought behind this vote?

is this @ me?

and it's pretty normal for clidd. there's probably 5-page essay coming by him any second now.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

misunderstood, my bad. maybe i'll share them after he responds.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

now i'm just confused. was that a tuxedo townread, ceejay scumread, both, or neither?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

sorry, there's not much point answering that yet.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

@Kilga, how do you feel about CJ sheeping you?

I am okay with it given I felt worse about you

them

than him when I posted. It helps that 158 is pretty much exactly the response I intended to give to 150, which itself feels like a disingenuous response. Particularly since (a) it doesn't make an attempt to address why my accusation is wrong, and (b) it doesn't differentiate between our post volumes. I would say someone who doesn't post a lot but offers alignment opinions when they do is townier than someone that does post a lot but doesn't offer alignment opinions, regardless of the actual content of those posts.

your own iso up to that point was 4 posts, all of which were either setup talk or non-game related, pot-calling-kettle-black. before i fell asleep, the only discussion so far was Setup Spec, the few KobavTux posts, and some people wanting to vote Holden (which I actually did ask about but got ignored).

i don't understand what you mean by (b)?
-D

The idea behind (b) is that I feel a larger volume of gameplay posts without alignment-related efforts comes across as "trying to look like one is being helpful without one actually being helpful" than a smaller volume of such posts, which could be explained as simply as "I have notable stretches of time throughout each day where I am able to pay little/no attention to the game". I will grant that it can be tough to dig up alignment opinions on ED1, but DkKoba was at least making such an effort, like with their vote for me (which happened early on and was something you could have made at least one alignment-opinion post about).

I also followed my vote for you a bit later with an alignment opinion on the DkKoba/Holden argument, which you could also have made at least one alignment-opinion by now but haven't.

Basically, for all your posting, I don't actually know what you think about the alignments of anyone in the game, whereas even with my current low volume of posts, I think I have some pretty obvious positive/negative opinions of a few players.

why such a difference between purely the volume of posts if they're all the same content-wise?

i was thinking of questioning koba, but tuxedo beat me to it, and i don't like butting in when i see someone questioning someone else. then when he said there hasn't been anything ai so far and didn't react to tuxedo calling it a joke, i figured it was just that.

do posts have to be made in the format of "x is town y is scum" for them to count? ico's earlier posts showed liking tux and disliking you and ceejay.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Votecount 1.4

Night 3 Roses(2)

~ Kilgamayan(11), ceejayvinoya(10)

ceejayvinoya(2)

~ Tuxedo Mask(18), Hoctac(24)

Tuxedo Mask(1)

~ HoldenGolden(34)

Kilgamayan(1)

~ enomis(3)

HoldenGolden(1)

~ DkKoba(36)

clidd(1)

~ Night 3 Roses(28)


Not Voting (1): clidd(0)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-29 05:21:12)

Is there an RVS vote above ?

multiple, i think (mine and enomis, might be more)

Re: 183, it's unfair how little Moriarty gifs there are and how little diversity there is between them when compared to Sherlock

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

and it has fulfilled its purpose now
UNVOTE:

VOTE: ceejay

might give this more thought in the morning.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

because i said "

it

has served its purpose now" referring to my current vote? if you're expecting a profound thought behind it, i'm gonna have to disappoint you.

~

Man, my mind short-circuited for a moment there because I completely forgot that Holmes and Moriarty are actual characters that have appeared in many different mediums and not just a hot dude and a foxy grandpa from everyone's favorite cell phone game.

from the what

@Night 3 Roses: I think the post volume difference does matter in that a higher post volume comes across as an active attempt to look good whereas the lower post volume does not. To be sure, not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I will admit I assumed you (or your slot, or whatever term is appropriate) didn't like ceejay or myself not because of any scumhunting justification, but simply because we're voting for you. Aside from Hoctac being unhappy with ceejay for not being original, no one else has seemed to have a problem with the nature of the pressure being applied to you, so I figured it was a safe assumption. I've seen so many players over the years do it, so.

you're assuming i'm trying to look good. i'm well aware of what "active lurking" is. i was posting because i felt like posting, and at the time what i felt like "actually contributing" either a thing that could've been ai was already dismissed as non-ai, or my question got ignored.

i can tell (or at least i like to believe i can...) the difference between good votes and bad votes on my slot, simply disliking/scumreading someone because they dare vote against me would be silly. i think your arguments are bad but they seem to be genuine. (un)fortunately ico is currently having some sorta holiday so i can't exactly bug him right now to ask what he thinks.

(particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed)

are you saying it wasn't addressed by hoctac or did you miss the second part of 165?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

kliga, i'd argue flat-out lurking is easier for scum to do, but okay.

~

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

are you actually scumreading hoctac or...?

~

hoctac, did you get anything from the unvote talk?

[Night 3 Roses]

Rawr! Okay we had a holiday here yesterday and my weekend VLA is upon us so i'll be spamming for a couple posts here

-Ico

[Night 3 Roses]

Basically, for all your posting, I don't actually know what you think about the alignments of anyone in the game, whereas even with my current low volume of posts, I think I have some pretty obvious positive/negative opinions of a few players.

Strongly disagree. You are pushing us on something that your slot is guilty of to a worse extent.
If you have those opinions, they ain't in your iso and they definitely weren't at the tim of your push on us. So I don't understand how it's natural for you to have that scumread.

[Night 3 Roses]

(all posts coming are Ico's)

[Night 3 Roses]

Ok, im done reading. Kilgamayan and Dkkoba are likely town, I have a TL on them (maybe I'll change my mind If see something on Kilga's meta)

I would like to know Ceejay's opinion about the pushs on his wagon and why his focus is still on Night 3 Roses, and not on the accusers.

where's the Kilgamayan townread coming from?

[Night 3 Roses]

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

Unvotes are nice but not required

is it strange to being nice?

[Night 3 Roses]

not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I don't think you really know who you are dealing with here if you think that either -D or me cares about how we look. And that's as either allignment.
I really don't get the 'trying to look good angle' because I Always have a fuck all attitude and it's NAI.

[Night 3 Roses]

Like, I still think your earlier performance is a mildly scummy approach - "you're assuming i'm trying to look good" and "i was posting because i felt like posting" are things one could just as easily say falsely as scum as truthfully as town, and while yes, town and scum can behave in similar manners and do similar things, there are some town behaviors and actions that are easier to do as scum than other town behaviors and actions, and I think your earlier play falls in the first category there - but your responses have felt more like "slightly offended townie" than "defensive scum", so I'm willing to shelve it for the time being. Particularly given recent happenings. (Also I somehow completely missed the bottom of your 165. Terribly sorry for that.)

I don't understand your take and conclusions here. If something can come from scum just as easily as town, how are you scumreading it? You literally just said it's NAI yourself.
At least the reassessing and trying to solve here is a +.

[Night 3 Roses]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

i townread DK, this feels like a very natural response to that omgus

[Night 3 Roses]

Spoiler:

Datisi, is there a reason you unvote before placing your vote on ceejay? If the reason is to show us you were voting for someone prior, I do not understand the logic as you did not include the person's name with the unvote. Strange.

my previous post was talking about RVS votes, in which i said my vote was one of them, and it got clidd to respond to me with a Sherlock gif? s'there a point to this?

-D

Ah, I did not realise clidd had responded with a Sherlock gif. Is there a reason you unvote before voting in the same post?

because i said "

it

has served its purpose now" referring to my current vote? if you're expecting a profound thought behind it, i'm gonna have to disappoint you.

~

Man, my mind short-circuited for a moment there because I completely forgot that Holmes and Moriarty are actual characters that have appeared in many different mediums and not just a hot dude and a foxy grandpa from everyone's favorite cell phone game.

from the what

@Night 3 Roses: I think the post volume difference does matter in that a higher post volume comes across as an active attempt to look good whereas the lower post volume does not. To be sure, not contributing is generally a scummy thing, but I am more wary of someone that's actively trying to look good without actually contributing than someone's that not trying to look good while also not actually contributing.

I will admit I assumed you (or your slot, or whatever term is appropriate) didn't like ceejay or myself not because of any scumhunting justification, but simply because we're voting for you. Aside from Hoctac being unhappy with ceejay for not being original, no one else has seemed to have a problem with the nature of the pressure being applied to you, so I figured it was a safe assumption. I've seen so many players over the years do it, so.

you're assuming i'm trying to look good. i'm well aware of what "active lurking" is. i was posting because i felt like posting, and at the time what i felt like "actually contributing" either a thing that could've been ai was already dismissed as non-ai, or my question got ignored.

i can tell (or at least i like to believe i can...) the difference between good votes and bad votes on my slot, simply disliking/scumreading someone because they dare vote against me would be silly. i think your arguments are bad but they seem to be genuine. (un)fortunately ico is currently having some sorta holiday so i can't exactly bug him right now to ask what he thinks.

(particularly since my question about your potential alt-account-ness wasn't addressed)

are you saying it wasn't addressed by hoctac or did you miss the second part of 165?

-D

I like the

"your reasons for suspecting me look bad, but I think you're town"

mentality. It's the kind of thing that I find myself applying in every game as town.

I feel that a scum mentality is more inclined to apply omgus in this situation on the pretext that the accuser is acting in bad faith.

I disagree with this, clidd. Anti-OMGUS is actually a slight scumtell, though context is king of course. However, I am pleased to hear that you refrain from exhibiting OMGUS as town.

does this mean you scumlean us or are you just disagreeing with the "theory"?

~

Don't worry, I think it's even better for me to analyze you without established prejudices of your scumgame.

why did you ask for it then?

~

DkKoba, what does a :s face mean?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

koba, why does the second post you quoted ping you? i think kilga was asked for that meta?

-D

pedit: lmao

[Night 3 Roses]

ico is currently asleep like a normal european (unlike me) also weekend V/LA

do you need anything from him?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

then why are you telling him to stop? also nobody told you to read them?

-D

pedit: @koba

[Night 3 Roses]

ceejay, i think someone asked earlier for your current read on holden (and sorry if i missed your reply), what is it?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

tuxedo is informed and nknows im town. i dont neeed to take their scum questioning seriously

weren't you townreading tuxedo earlier? what gave you the impression they're "informed"?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

okay so i was supposed to go out and shit but that just got cancelled so YAY

[Night 3 Roses]

yoink

[Night 3 Roses]

holden my dude you still have your rvs vote up, does it reflect your reads or

also same question at enomis

[Night 3 Roses]

koba, how much merit do you put into your ~gutreads~?

[Night 3 Roses]

holden my dude you still have your rvs vote up, does it reflect your reads or

also same question at enomis

actually this kinda goes to clidd too

[Night 3 Roses]

ok

this has all been Day tee zee

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Congrats on finally getting your yoink to be a page top.

Who's posting right now? Ico or D? If it's Ico do you still town read Dkkoba? If so why?

P-edit: Oh, can you answer how you feel about Dkkoba?

annoyed mostly

i was hoping to let ico read players like them since i have a p hard time reading aggressive players (and may have lost a couple of games because of that)

holden my dude you still have your rvs vote up, does it reflect your reads or

also same question at enomis

It's my RVS vote.

It's just vibing rn. Does that vibing bother you? Is this a no voting vibing zone?

--- absolutely no vote vibing allowed ---

i'm asking because i notice the last VC that 3 votes (actually it's 4 now that ceejay unvoted) are either RVS with not much sign that the holder is Happy with the vote, or are straight up not voting

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

holden my dude you still have your rvs vote up, does it reflect your reads or

also same question at enomis

It doesn't but I wanna see how HocTac respond first.
Also, I don't really have a scumread at this point.

do you have townread(s) (other than the clidd one)?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

scumhunting: not a towntell because it's really really easy to fake

saying "i won't be efforting this game": town

ok

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

ceejay, i think someone asked earlier for your current read on holden (and sorry if i missed your reply), what is it?

-D

Holden is probably town. I'm backing off.

who are the scums then?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

yeah, i have seen scum fake scumhunt, i've played mafia before. scum by definition cannot genuinely scumhunt. good scum can fake it well, sure. but saying that everyone can or that it's easy to do is ???. ok cool day 1 is difficult low info yadda yadda. nobody said it's easy. so why don't we all go "oh well it's day 1 everyone is null". like does genuinely nothing so far make you think one way or another?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

ok

do you see anything else that makes you think "aha, i think this person is town"?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

my dudes i just fkin lost one town game

can we not lose this one

[Night 3 Roses]

i managed to log into the hydra avcount thank fuck

[Night 3 Roses]

whonis scum my dudes

we beed to lynch rhem

[Night 3 Roses]

ok i gotta go

can yall lynch scum whike im gonne

ok thanks

-datisi

[Night 3 Roses]

did you know my feiend on uni kicked me out of group chat

[Night 3 Roses]

ok bye

[Night 3 Roses]

Fuck me logging out anf in into hydra is dumb

[Night 3 Roses]

Holden im sos rry

[Night 3 Roses]

George can i post from my main pls

[Night 3 Roses]

Ok my batter is 9% i gotta gp

[Night 3 Roses]

i tried logging into mozilal

I usually use Chrome for main and mozilla for hydra

It did not eork for some reaosn

Maybe i forogot the password

Aldo 8% battery oh no

[Night 3 Roses]

hi sorry i got hammered again and my head is pounding rn
i've yelled at dragon on discord and he better be contributing by the time i wake up

why is tux scum why is ceejay town

is that enough for a prodge

ok gn

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

So I got yelled at in Discord and I'm here to do things

-Ico

[Night 3 Roses]

Let's start by sorting that ugly fight between the Tux and the(y) Koba

i answerd ur dumb questions nerd nerd and ur pivot is not logically consistent. ur tone towards me suggested u thought i was town. so ur sudden pivot is not genuine.

How to burn thru towncredit in 1 sentence or less, Walter

Also, if you really think I'm so full of shit, why aren't you voting me?

Fair question

because I don't need to vote you to be right

With a fair answer

ur pivot is fake and if you try to keep it up its probably a scum pivot.

This take is just bad for all kinds of reasons, but it's not how scum would approach being scumread like this

if i am still voted by the time i finish the next 2 drinks the votes going on u

and this is like, prob!town drunkposting? Right?

tuxedo is informed and nknows im town. i dont neeed to take their scum questioning seriously

Unfair takes again, and this is just starting to feel like a full blown OMGUS.

you nitpicked and made assumptions abt me after having a townready tone towards me. I'm not going to tolerate people lying about what I have done so knock it off.

I think you just need to have a different approach to this, because I don't see what scum!Tux has to gain by engaging with you like this. I think this is TvT.

Anyway, I just wanna say I am avoiding reading dkkoba/interacting with them because I found out how disaster it would be. Tuxedo vs DkKoba is basically a dejavu of me vs DkKoba in another game. (Can't explain more because it is ongoing).

Was that dejavu of you vs the(y) Koba TvT or were either of you scum?

[Night 3 Roses]

@DkKoba: I'll colon YOUR s :Z Also you may want to try to address Holden's issue with you once and for all if only so everyone can move on.

@clidd: I think it's kind of pointless to ask me about ceejay given he hasn't posted since I last discussed him, but for the sake of posterity, I wasn't overly happy with him in 108, but hey, ED1 cases. His 158 maade me feel a little better about him since it was clear he understood my voting reasons. My read hasn't evolved since then because he flat-out hasn't been here to change it. Given a fair amount has happened since then, including my opinion of N3R evolving a bit and my vote changing, I am rather interested to see how his stances have evolved once he returns.

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

My vote has nothing to do with your vote on me specifically. Sorry for the confusion.

This is a mind-boggling statement to make in combination with not addressing the second half of the final paragraph I wrote in 215.

Fake edit: Oh hey, there we go. @ceejay: Any update on your N3R stance?

After my earlier engagement with Kilga I'm feeling a lot better. This at least is a towny perspective on the matter.

[Night 3 Roses]

Ceejay, who do you FoS ?

I'm no good at scumreads, but for now, enomis.

do you have any reads at all? would like to know where ur at(ish?)

[Night 3 Roses]

To be honest, I'm having a hard time finding scum on this game. Hoctac is the closer to being scum on my PoE. My read on Ceejay has changed due to a change in perspective and I think he is town.

I can relate to the sentiment of not really having scumreads. What do you think of The Tux vs the(y) Koba?

[Night 3 Roses]

Are you feeling pressured by all the votes on you, Holden? I could ask people to unvote if that's the case.

You townread Holden? If so, why?

Is everyone okay with me moving my vote to ceejay?

Why do you feel the need to ask permission to vote?

Thanks!

VOTE: ceejay

I'm not sure, I'm still getting my bearings in this game. Some people seem very friendly but I'm not sure if being friendly makes someone town or mafia.

Also, I liked the person who made the first push against Night 3 Roses. For making the push itself; I think it was productive and useful of them!

This seems like a very 'soft' way of attempting to make friends with Kilga and avoiding taking a stance on us at the same time. Liking someone's push but not making an opinion on slot that is on the receiving end of that push is bad.

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

What is the difference in Kilga's push on us (that you liked), and Hoctac's push here according to you?

[Night 3 Roses]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

i townread DK, this feels like a very natural response to that omgus

You townread them based on this one post? They didn't address my points and just called it an OMGUS, that's NAI at best.

it's a tonal read obviously

[Night 3 Roses]

Their ISO is a lot of questioning and busywork with very little reads/opinions of their own.

so you scumread us because… we are actively trying to sort the game with questioning and busywork?

because the second part is just wrong/lying

if you actually read us, that should be obvious

[Night 3 Roses]

the only thing i'll confirm is that i'm lacking scumreads, but i already admitted as much but it's just what it is

(this and previous by Ico)

[Night 3 Roses]

I'll vote for ceejay or Roses, but probably Roses.

Their ISO is a lot of questioning and busywork with very little reads/opinions of their own.

Could someone give me permission to vote for Roses please?

UNVOTE: DkKoba

also, what a coincidence you decide to scumread us after I make a few pointers at you? And you choose to not even respond to them?

[Night 3 Roses]

VOTE: hoctac

let's go buddy

[Night 3 Roses]

Where do you want to go?

to that bar you were talking about sounds good

[Night 3 Roses]

are you standing by your post where you say we haven't had reads or opinions (or very little)?

[Night 3 Roses]

Also our only previous interaction was you questioning us about unvoting
And when I rawred in your general direction you start scumreading us?

Feels a little blank

[Night 3 Roses]

VOTE: DKkoba

For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned.

nice omgus buddy. mad i called your gimmick out?

i townread DK, this feels like a very natural response to that omgus

You townread them based on this one post? They didn't address my points and just called it an OMGUS, that's NAI at best.

it's a tonal read obviously

@hoctac

[Night 3 Roses]

yada yada ok i put on my correct sleeve :p

-Ico

[Night 3 Roses]

I guess I should be more clear. He was town, and his "optimal strategy" "cleared" me, securing me the win in Lylo.

oh hey i remember that
hi pinguino

also hi friends
i wasn't planning on playing this game until day 2 because i'm feeling pretty burned out at the moment but ico has left me for the weekend and i see we're close to deadline

so what's good

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

did i miss a hammer?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

No - we're at like 12 hours left with competing wagons on Hoctac and Ceejay, but I prefer Dk, especially for their horrible posting over the past two pages, and others are willing to join if we can get 5.

i get this is kinda hypocritical of me here but how much of the game have you read? (as a genuine question)

pedit: why do you want to alert scum on who's potentially gonna be shooting them?

[Night 3 Roses]

they can't stop 2 shots at either of them. we get the highest chance of scum getting shot at night and less vigs dying to bombs this way.

we can only get two shots on 4 players max (and that is if everyone complies with your plan which is already not the case), unless both scum are in that pool then they just heal whoever is in it (if any are!) and cross their fingers the people "shooting" them are non-vigs or blanks, let alone that 12 hours before deadline is kinda too late for this?

anyway it's getting late here and i'm going to sleep soon so

what even are the wagons at right now?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

you don't get a cc.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

if scum is stupid enough to claim their own kill on a Bomb, then yeah, sure.

pedit: l m a o

ppedit: holy fucc

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

quoting ico for iso

don't vote ffs

i'll be here tomorrow

and if anyone's gonna be quicklynched then at least lynch hoctac

i'll (re)read this once i'm not braindead (i.e. tomorrow)

fine with vig/nonvig massclaim unless we actually plan on no-lynching today, i think it does more harm than good in that case

aight cheers

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

(1) we haven't agreed if we're no-lynching yet, nobody claims anything until we sort that out
(2) who put you in charge of deciding the order?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

i was hoping for some PP big brain breaking strategy with no-lynching goddamn

also i'm prob gonna be passed out in some 15-20 minutes so what's the plan

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

there's a first time for everything no?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

kilga can claim later on imo

at this point i just wanna get this over with

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

hoc >> PP > kilga ig

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

thank fucc

non-vig

ginte

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Without having thorougly read back yet and from the top of my head

I townread the Tux after that 1v1 with DKkoba on D1. Hoctac should have been lynched imo. And right before I left, I thought the train was headed to Lynchville there. What happened exactly? I remember townreading Kilga and PP repped in.

[Night 3 Roses]

ok be with me for a sec here guys, i've just started my first coffee so if i've missed stuff let me know

Kilga, how and where did you go from scumreading and voting hoctac to voting eonois and now not even mentioning hoctac in your big post?

Spoiler:

@Tuxedo: Framing my vote as being "parked" is pretty disingenuous on your part, honestly. Nothing Hoctac has done has made me want to change it; see 515, which quotes my major problem with Hoctac's Koba vote. There has been no movement to my vote because Hoctac went a while without posting, and then defended against OMGUS charges while ignoring my major issue stated in 389 (which is quoted in 515). Note that this approach to defense, delaying and then ignoring/misdirecting, is also a scummy act.

---

A restatement of my issue with Hoctac, for (hopefully) full clarity

Koba voted Hoctac in 207, and Hoctac turned around and voted Koba in 208. An argument can be had over how scummy OMGUS is, or if it is even scummy or not, but that is a discussion for another time. The important thing to look at here is Hoctac's vote reason: "For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned." This is later expanded upon in 214 with "Additionally, they implied they disliked Holden's defensiveness, yet switched their vote to me too quickly, indicating they were unhappy with pursuing that push since it was drawing questions into their alignment and motives", and in 240, Hoctac adds that "My vote has nothing to do with your vote on me specifically."

Why is this scummy?

This is discussed in my 389, but for the sake of clarify, I'll explain again.

* Hoctac posts and is engaged with the game in 178.
* Koba unvotes Holden in 186.
* N3R unvotes clidd (an RVS vote) and votes ceejay in 197.
* Hoctac questions N3R's 197 unvote in 198.

Hoctac is at least someone active and engaged with the game in this interval of time, because 178 and 198 are both game-engaged posts. Hoctac is also keeping track of unvotes, as evidenced in 198 by questioning N3R's unvote.

The kicker here is that no effort whatsoever is made to engage with Koba over Koba's unvote, despite Hoctac clearly paying attention unvotes. No voting for or questioning of Koba whatsoever. If the vote and justification in 208 and the further elaborations in 214 and 240 were genuinely what TownHoctac thought, then Hoctac would have made an effort to engage with Koba over Koba's 186 unvote in 198, if not sooner.

As no effort was made in that interval of posts, it is simple to conclude that Hoctac's Koba vote and reasoning was not genuine, and as such Hoctac is scum.

---

If Hoctac is somehow telling the truth then I will look elsewhere, but there is no way to know this until Hoctac flips, so this is a rather pointless question at this juncture.

Bluhhhhh actually the more I dwell on it the more I want to do this. WAGON DECONSOLIDATION WITH LESS THAN 12 HOURS LET'S GO

UNVOTE: Hoctac
VOTE: enomis

The more I think about the multiple instances of "hey everyone let's lynch ceejay" without any effort to explain

why

we should vote for ceejay (not even in the original ceejay vote) the more I dislike it. I also was not impressed by our exchange related to hammer votes, which makes me feel even better about this, but the reasonless vote and continued enthusiastic pushes are really bad.

Overnight thoughts. Can't wait for one or more of these people to have died and made me look stupid with their flips!

The enomis train

---

Kilgamayan

- Well, I know I'm town.

Tuxedo Mask

- Bluh. Had previously expression suspicion of enomis in 553, but (a) it seems to come about largely as a result of PoE (the post also lists Holden, N3R, Hoctac, Clidd, and myself in the Town section), and (b) it comes right alongside a suspicion of ceejay. (This is going to get PbP-ish, but I promise it's going somewhere.) Changes vote to ceejay in 558, but proceeds to question me in 562 about why I don't like ceejay and enomis, as well as I why I dislike ceejay more at the time, and then also questions enomis in 576 about "why CJ over Hoctac", despite having his own vote on ceejay at the time. The kicker than comes in 730, with a statement about thinking Hoctac and Koba are down while switching his vote to enomis on the grounds that ceejay may be getting replaced. The problem with all this? Between 553 and 730, Tuxedo Mask has town reads on everyone but ceejay and enomis and is willing to vote either of them, but does not appear to ever make an effort to reconcile these with the fact that ceejay and enomis actively dislike each other (and have actively disliked each other for a while, including enomis voting for ceejay). I feel like Town Tuxedo would want to stop and rethink given he is town reading six players and scum reading two players in a two-scum game while those two scumreads were actively hostile toward each other and had been hostile toward each other for a while. I also feel like (a) questioning people over why they would prefer to vote ceejay over other people while he himself is voting ceejay, and (b) changing his vote from ceejay to a person voting ceejay that ceejay thinks is scum means Tuxedo doesn't really care that much about the implications of his scumreads.

(Also worth noting that Tuxedo Mask leaves his vote on enomis even after ceejay starts posting again, which makes it clear that ceejay is not getting a replacement, which eliminates the reason for switching to enomis in 730. Koba had just voted ceejay in 778 as well before ceejay started posting again, so a ceejay lynch was definitely viable at that point.)

ceejayvinoya

- Vote seems reasonable to me; even with his limited post volume, ceejay had been displeased with and poking at enomis for most of the day. Perfectly logical vote for a Town ceejay.

HoldenGolden

- Noooooot great. 568 mentions a preference to have enomis hammer the day's lynch "for reasons I'm about to post", but those reasons are never actually posted, and his 573 reread of enomis's ISO results in concluding that it "isn't nearly as bad as I thought I saw". He briefly engages with enomis about the hammering discussion/issue in 635, but the wording doesn't seem to imply "I think you are scummy for thinking this way", and then Holden doesn't mention enomis again until the vote despite having plenty of time to engage in the PP/Koba argument.

DkKoba

- I'm feeling pretty good about TownKoba given ScumKoba would have known enomis was town and therefore could have very safely and easily let PP hammer enomis instead as PP said he would do. Jumping in to hammer a possible SuperSaint when there was stated intent to hammer from elsewhere just seems so needlessly risky for little-to-no benefit.

---

tl;dr

ceejay's vote is null at worst

,

Koba's vote looks town

, Tuxedo's

and Holden's

votes look scummy. VOTE: Tuxedo Mask because I think his vote is somewhat worse than Holden's,

but they're both pretty bad and I wouldn't be sad to see Holden get lynched instead

.

(None of this is to say ceejay is definitely town, of course.)

Wow, didn't expect the night to take out THAT much of the enomis lynch. Makes me feel better about my Tuxedo vote, though!

I think Tux came out very well in the 1v1 with DKkoba, and I haven't seen much to change that. I don't really see much of an actual case in your post here either, other then his reason for voting eonis but frankly I'm really questioning your motivation for that as well. So why did YOU push him?

Hoctac + kilga? Need to revisit why I was townreading Kilga in the first place

[Night 3 Roses]

Tux, what's your reads at right now? I reread your readslist from a while back, would like an update

[Night 3 Roses]

I mean - I think it's interesting that Dk was the leading wagon and now we're sitting between Hoctac and ceejay as counterwagons with no Dk wagon existing.

That's why I'm looking for reasons as to why people unvoted. Saying that it isn't possible to get a wagon on Dk is not accurate.

with both Dk and CJ flipping town, how likely do you think hoctac is still town? That wagon dissapeared quietely, and I can't even pinpoint what actually happened that dismantled this wagon. I feel it's between you and Kilga + hoctac as the team here.

No - we're at like 12 hours left with competing wagons on Hoctac and Ceejay, but I prefer Dk, especially for their horrible posting over the past two pages, and others are willing to join if we can get 5.

how is hoctac NOT a good lynch? I already spent time and effort in explaining why I townread both DK and the Tux

Dk is a much better lynch than ceejay at this point. Come on Hoctac.

Don't make me bat my beautiful penguin eyes.

what has hoctac done to deserve a townread?

Hoctac is Town.

Seriously, what?

[Night 3 Roses]

But!* 7 hours is still plenty of time left in a day to change a lynch, particularly in a 9-player setting. I've seen lynches change far faster than that in larger settings.* enomis went from 0 to 4 in the span of 4.5 hours. Surely ceejay could go from 2 to 5 in the span of 7 hours.* In fact, two people in that seven-hours-left vote count who are not voting for ceejay preferred (allegedly) to vote ceejay but moved away because of the potential replacement. Once ceejay started posting again, that was clearly not going to happen. If those people had moved back to ceejay once they saw he was posting again, the vote count would have looked like this:ceejayvinoya (4): enomis, DkKoba, Hoctac, Tuxedo MaskHoctac (1): Night 3 RosesDkKoba (1): PenguinPowerenomis (3): Kilgamayan, ceejayvinoya, HoldenGoldenWith about 7 hours left to go, there would have been pleeeenty of time to find a fifth ceejay vote. Given you publicly preferred a ceejay vote to an enomis vote (because why else would you have been voting ceejay and not enomis before the potential replacement comment was made?), I believe Town Tuxedo would have seen ceejay come back and either switched back to ceejay or made an effort to explain why his vote was going to remain on enomis. You offered neither of these things despite having time to funpost (802). This is primarily why I think you did not actually care who you were voting for or who got lynched, and thus why I think you are scum.

All of this is just a really bad angle to use as a scumread, ever. Especially with both PP claiming not being here at deadline and me in my usual weekend VLA. Would it have been possible? Sure. Maybe. Who knows. But what is scum!indicative of Tux for saying that?

[Night 3 Roses]

I really feel Tux is the scum designated mislynch on which they win the game.

[Night 3 Roses]

Lul, where's that extension, George?

I was kinda sus Penpow might be scum redirecting from a scum!ceejay lynch, but actually that doesn't make any sense considering he could just go for me instead.

VOTE: DkKoba

Subject to change based on what ceejay's rep comes in and does.

actually a good explanation would be that it's just you + PP and that he steered away from your lynch
it doesn't really explain why PP steers away from CJ lynch however

Kilga + Hoctac more likely?

What's everyone's thoughts here?
But still, I don't see how I'm voting anyone else then Hoctac today

[Night 3 Roses]

hoctac i tried talking to you about your push on us yesterday because it really really stinked

is it partly omgus? Hell yes. But I really feel that you are scumreading us because you *have* to and have been trying to set that up on D1

[Night 3 Roses]

That actually makes sense lol

[Night 3 Roses]

Also, that's an incorrect and lazy assessment of my wagon. Look at the reasons why 2 of the 3 voters changed, rather than painting it as "disappearing quietly" without looking at any specifics.

that's not quite how i play this game

I left for my weekend VLA with you being top wagon (IIRC), and when I came back i saw a lynch that I didn't even saw coming from ten miles away. That just really felt like scum didn't want your lynch happen there and fed my scum!hoctac thoughts. not to mention your actual reasons for scumreading us D1 are still terrible imo.

[Night 3 Roses]

in my experience the kind of wagon you had either does 2 things:

it goes to L-1 very quickly and it's mostly scum-driven because of how easy you got to L-1
it stalls out and goes away mostly because scum are not interested in that lynch

it fell perfectly in the second part

[Night 3 Roses]

hoctac i've got a really short fuse when it comes to people scumreading me (us in this case) for poor reasons especially when I feel they are trying to not engage us over them

if ur town here, you'll need to get out of your scum!roses read
if ur town, i strongly urge you to reread us and see if those reasons you say actually apply because they don't

[Night 3 Roses]

Pedit: Why would I

have

to scumread you? When I did yesterday, I was a wagon so why attract more negative attention and a possible OMGUS?

Also, if Tux is the "designated mislynch" as you put it, why do I need to scumread you here and attract and a possible vote?

Could you address this though?

I said smt about you making sense there and you may have noticed my tone towards you has changed a bit since those posts…
But I have to talk to Datisi first because the implications of you being town means i'm dead wrong with at least 1 of my townreads in kilga/tux. I doubt there was 0 scum on the lynch D1.

[Night 3 Roses]

Kilga + Hoctac more likely?

This team is gut pinging me.

what does this mean?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Tux > Roses > Hoctac/Kilga if I cared enough to make an order.

when/why did you get that thought?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

oh, i see wrt splitting
tho i was asking more why you put them as last

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

glorified prodge due to me being a lazy fuck and not yet rereading anything incoming

I doubt there was 0 scum on the lynch D1.

FWIW this is also part of my Scum Tuxedo conclusion,

because I also doubt it was five townies given how it came to be

, and four of the votes are three town flips and myself, so. (I alluded to this at the end of my opening post today but haven't bothered pushing it since I am not confirmed town to anyone else.)

can you clarify "given how it came to be"? is it "i think tux is scum > there's scum on the wagon" or "there's scum on that wagon > tux is scum"?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

How's that catchup of the game coming along, Datisi? You guys got a nice solve for us yet?

me? having a solve? good one
the catchup is currently on life support waiting to be declared dead
this Nobody Playing is not exactly making me Inspired
have you reread yet?

@N3R: By "the way it came to be" I meant how the enomis train went from 0 to 5 in the span of roughly 5 hours near the end of the day. Even as one of the people that voted for enomis, I acknowledge that the train on the whole was ostensibly a mad dash to a lurker with an easy case against them, instead of a lynch that would have been more informative in seeing how people came down on one side or the other, such as ceejay or Hoctac (or even Koba). That is, it was a much easier vote for scum to cast, and as such the wagon needed to be scrutinized for who on it may have been scum. After looking over the not-me people on it and why they were there, I concluded that Tuxedo was the most likely scum with Holden not too far behind.

of the 9p games that i've played, i've couple of times seen a day1 mislynch with an all-town wagon, and both times it was a deadline/scramble lynch (note i'm obviously not saying every scramble mislynch is an all-town wagon). that's why i asked, did you get to the read of tuxedo "first" or the read of the wagon "first" because in my experince those kinda wagons have a ~higher chance of being all-town and reading (fypov) tux because of the wagon feels odd

Posting from bed to remind myself to take a different approach in tomorrow's rereads. Rather than looking at pairings, I need to go back and look at who has been demonstrably wrong in their main suspicions, and determine who had better reasons for thinking the way they did versus who had worse reasons for thinking the way they did. This might just be paranoid bedtime thought racing

but I'm starting to get cold mental feet on Tuxedo the more I dwell on this situation

.

can you elaborate on this?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

you mean the ones where he locktowned scum and i got set up as the lylo mislynch? yeah sure i would love to read that again

also should i be worried V/LA is in quotation marks?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

err, can you walk me through that? like assume for the sake of argument both you and tuxedo are town. what do you think scum would be doing?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

yes, obviously if tuxedo is town then cases against him should be dropped since they're on town and lynching town is bad etc. but i'm trying to understand

how

you got to that conclusion, or

how

your line of reasoning got you to that conclusion.

because the only way i cound see "nobody is buying my case, therefore it's wrong" is in a scenario where there's a lot of town and not a lot of scum, so no town is "buying" your case, meaning nobody else in the town thinks the case is right, so the case is probably wrong. (which isn't even something i'd agree with but i can see someone having that line of reasoning.) however we're in 5p lylo and i don't think that same thought process can be applied here. which is why i'm asking.

like, it's not about tuxedo's alignment, it's about how you got to his alignment.

-D

pedit: @kilga if it wasn't obvious

[Night 3 Roses]

That would depend on what the team is and what their endgame is, two things I don't know at present. But whatever they may be doing, in any hypothetical where I assume Tuxedo is town, then my case against him is wrong and should be dropped, yes? That's why I'm not understanding the sudden line of question that seems to boil down to "Why is this reason a reason to drop the scum case against Tuxedo? Have you considered what you should do if Tuxedo is town?". Is there something to the confusion I'm missing?

Your reasoning for beginning to doubt your scumread on Tux is because

it might be wrong?

[Night 3 Roses]

@N3R: It's not that I'm convinced Tuxedo is town, just that I'm a lot less confident in my case than before, to the point where I think it would be better to look elsewhere. The internal logic was to look at how the day had played out so far and question how likely it was that my case was good and Tuxedo was scum.

* Hoctac has briefly entertained the idea that Tuxedo is sum but did not engage with what I put forth (until I stated that I was getting cold feet about it).
* You disagree with my core premise (947) and have been pretty vocally against my case the whole time.
* PP hasn't engaged with my case, presumably because he hasn't read it.

If Tuxedo were scum, then two of those three reactions are genuine town reactions from people that seem to know what they're doing better than I. That's enough to tell me that the case isn't worth pursuing.

Perhaps Tuxedo actually

is

scum and there will be something more indicative of that later! But at the moment I don't feel good about pursuing what I've been pursuing anymore.

To me this reads like you are trying to bail on pushing Tux but leaving the door open for when others push him
The entire reason for dropping your scumread on Tux is that others aren't agreeing with you, which shouldn't have an influence on you. At most it can make you look elsewhere but it shouldn't have an influence on your actual scumread on the Tux.

-This is ico btw

[Night 3 Roses]

If Tuxedo were scum, then two of those three reactions are genuine town reactions from people that seem to know what they're doing better than I. That's enough to tell me that the case isn't worth pursuing.

But isn't the problem here that if that's true than they're wrong? So just because the reaction is genuine it isn't a reason to scum read me less.

Like the options are...
1. You're scum failing to get two town players in Hoctac, PP, and Rose's to lynch town me.

2. We're both town, and for some reason scum aren't using your suspicions of me to win.

3. I'm scum, and you haven't convinced two town in Hoctac, Roses, PP to lynch me.

So you backing off your super aggressive start. That you voted me into your first post in MYLO looked really bad.

I'm okay to lynch here.

Yeah tux is still town

[Night 3 Roses]

We need to start discussing who we are gonna lynch and more importantly who we want to hammer

[Night 3 Roses]

fine i'll go first

Kilga lynch with either of Hoctac/PP hammering
Am unsure about the hammer, but favouring hoctac to hammer

[Night 3 Roses]

@N3R:

I think it bears repeating that I myself was starting to doubt my Tuxedo case. It's not like the decision was

only

"oh other people aren't buying it so it must be wrong", that's merely the only part of my 951 that people have focused on today. In that same post, I state that I myself was having doubts about the validity of the case, independent of how others were engaging (or not engaging) with it. The two things together were enough to convince me to look elsewhere. I'm starting to think this got missed.

Granted I missed that part, but it doesn't really alter my point.

Changing your opinion about a slot is fine, but it's the reasons why that matter.

[Night 3 Roses]

What's your solve right now, if Tux is being reconsidered in your head?

[Night 3 Roses]

So I should have kept the opinion I was starting to doubt on my own, then?

[Night 3 Roses]

You are reconsidering Tux now at a time when it's becoming clear that he probably won't be lynched and that feels like ur backing off. And then you use reasoning that smells fishy, while still leaving the door open to get back to him later if opinions change.

[Night 3 Roses]

Who would you like to see lynched and who gets the hammer, Kilga?

[Night 3 Roses]

We haven't played (a lot?) with each other I think. This is all Ico btw. I read but I tend to miss stuff sometimes.
I don't agree that I'm gunning for you hard here.

And I asked for lynch and hammer, i don't recall that being said by you so far.

[Night 3 Roses]

maybe i am actually

[Night 3 Roses]

i don't think there's a lot of teams that actually make a ton of sense rn

[Night 3 Roses]

Well, odds are good we haven't played with each other at all, unless either of you are an alt/remake of someone that was in one of FakeGod's Touhou UPicks from 2015.

My preferred lynch is PP, which is why my vote/vote was there in 962. I figured this was clear, but possibly not, given what is likely different approaches to the game. My apologies for losing my cool over it.

We are def not in agreement with PP.
And it was clear you want PP, but given the setup determing the hammer can be critical.

[Night 3 Roses]

i dunno if it's gonna be of much use to you

basically i played with scum!PP in the last run of this setup, and then a bit after i played with town!PP in furret's bizzare adventure 2 where he was feeling very very different which let me townread him pretty early on

granted he got shot on night 1 there so i don't know his lategame but nothing he's said so far is making me ping onto scum!PP

also ico's too got a town!PP gutfeel

have you given reasons for why you think he's scum (or whatever your stance is)? sorry if you have, i haven't exactly read since the last time i posted

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

ok, can you link me to what you see as that?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Roses, could you give some reasons for why Penpow is playing like his townself, and how his scum game is different to this?

your dear friend Hectic was playing in the last iteration of this setup which featured scum!pingu, has he told you about that game? to me PP feels different to me this game than there, do you not feel the same?

I struggle to see a world where Kilga is scum and Roses are town. Since, Kilga absolutely continues scumreading me and capitalises on Roses' scumread on me to win today.

did i miss kilga dropping his scumread of you?

@kilga, thank you, i'll take a look at it soon.

on the subject of hammering: wouldn't it make the most sense to have the lynchee choose who hammers them? saying "from my pov X should hammer Y" is all fine and dandy except we don't exactly know is your pov a scum or town one. however, if we have the lynchee choose, then (either it's scum/bomb/vig so it doesn't matter or) we have a 100% town controlled death. unless they refuse to hammer, which will be spicy on its own.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

2) There are only two scum in this game, so scum are not numerically capable of dissolving a wagon on their own unless that scum is voting themselves.

i don't understand this, can you explain/rephrase?

how is playing mechanics/role puzzle NAI? arguably, you were scumreading me at the beginning of the game for being overly mechanical/talking about the past game as opposed to scumhunting, no? would you say that's also NAI?

and i mean fair, writing more longer posts is probably NAI, but that's not the only basis (or really the main one) that his argument against you lies, no? also, in the above spoiler you wrote that he's accusing Koba for misreading/making factual errors (implying that should be NAI) while in the bottom one half of your points are PP making factual errors.

Also, what is the general ethos at this site about "if I were scum I would do X" statements? At other places I've played repeatedly making statements like these is often a each way to get a lynch in the face, but perhaps things are different here.

depends from player to player. some see "self meta" as town indicative, some as NAI, some as scum indicative. every once in a while "what would you do as scum here?" is used as a question to sort people. if you've got something good, go ahead.

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Wait, actually, Penpow is capable of being aggressive and vocal as scum too. You're townreading him off the sample size of just 2 games?

not quite, that's the meta aspect of it. i think what he said was true, if he were to be scum here he'd be taking the path of most resistance.

~

It is possible that I am misunderstanding the intended meaning of that point against Koba. I take the idea that someone's wagon quietly dissolving is a sign of their scumminess to mean "scum buddies helped to dissolve the wagon to avoid the scum getting too much attention". Such an explanation doesn't make sense to me in a two-scum-game setting, though, because assuming scum are not self-voting, at most one scum is voting for another scum at any given time, and so there is very little control scum would have over a scum wagon dissolving.

But, like I said, it is possible I am misunderstanding the intended meaning of the original point; if I am, I am willing to reconsider including it in the NAI list.

i mean, what i think of when saying that someone helped dissolve someone's wagon is that they were defending someone and/or getting other people to vote somewhere else. i've "dissolved" wagons like that single-handedly before.

but i don't exactly do VCA when scumhunting anyway, so ask the penguin what he meant i guess?

Truth be told, I didn't know for sure what PP's entire argument against me was when I pledged to write you the list you requested. PP's posting style being lots of short posts makes it hard for me to determine full cases from them. (I try to put together longer, more infrequent posts with points organized as best I can because I think it makes my cases clearer.) If an easy summary of it is possible then I'd be glad to re-examine. (Whether that changes my mind or not would depend on the volume and strength of any parts of the case, of course.)

again, why don't you ask?

I believe there are different types of misreadings/factual errors, depending on purpose/intent/what-have-you. To me, Koba thinking there are 3 scum or not knowing if bombs can be roleblocked NAI because they aren't being used to push the idea that someone is scum, whereas PP's claims about the priority lists and claim orders aren't NAI because they are being used to support the idea of a Kilga/Hoctac scum team.

am i misremembering or did Koba also use some factually incorrect stuff to support scum!PP?

~

Sorry did I miss something, why are we so sure the NK was Koba?

+1

ceejay was townreading DkKoba. No one here has claimed kills on anyone who died. So it has to be ceejay killing Holden and blowing up, and DkKoba dying to the nightkill. Also, we can safely assume DkKoba would've shot Penpow in the night, and clearly that did nothing.

The lylo thing was an incorrect assumption on my part, but yeah, I would think scum would want to keep both around.

except not really
vigs send their kill in after the day's lynch has flipped, so it's possible someone reevaluates and their professed reads at day don't reflect exactly who they shot
so i don't think we can know exactly what happened at night

also response to this?

I struggle to see a world where Kilga is scum and Roses are town. Since, Kilga absolutely continues scumreading me and capitalises on Roses' scumread on me to win today.

did i miss kilga dropping his scumread of you?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

You mean least resistance?

And I think it's fair to assume the kills happened like that tbh. The alternative is DkKoba and ceejay killing each other(??) and scum killing Holden.

err, what i meant is "if PP were to be scum here, he'd be taking a more difficult path, but i don't think scum!him would do that, so i don't think he's scum"
but your interpretation gets the point across too i think

or both Koba and ceejay blowing up on Holden with one of the three of them being a nightkill?

also i vaguely remember reading someone saying that "it was pretty obvious Koba wouldn't shoot PP" and i'm thinking about that

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Kilga dropped his scumread when he came in today pushing Tuxe and making no mention of being suspicious of me. Lack of suspicions I'm taking as dropping his scumread.

what do you think about 983?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Who's your preffered lynch and hammer, Roses, and why?

probably still Kilga, and i'd prefer him choosing his own hammerer if it comes down to it

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

btw love the gin avi, did Kanna choose it?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

Hum de dum. Maybe Penpow should hammer Roses instead of the other way around. Picking a fight with DkKoba upon entering the game does seem like a strange thing for town!Penpow to do, when his partner isn't a competing wagon.

Or MAYBE, Tuxe should hammer Roses then. Am I getting closer?

if we are the lynch today then either you or Kilga are gonna be hammering us

[Night 3 Roses]

(ico is back baby)

[Night 3 Roses]

Tuxey, I'm just thinking about the odds of it being you + Roses now. I think in my ideal world, I'd want Roses to hammer Penpow. Because Tuxey + Kilga is the least likely pairing imo, unless Kilga comes out planning to bus and hoping no one buys his case. That would be strange.

why are you assuming we will hammer PP?

[Night 3 Roses]

Tuxe... I gotta see more from you. You've been careful, you agreed with me saying Kilga is town, and you townread me, do does that mean you think it's Roses+Penpow?

Well, I agreed with your logic that he seemed to have no likely partners, but that doesn't stop Kilga's slot being the scummiest on its own. Though yes, I do see the logic in a Roses+Penpow team. Going back to day 1, if we're thinking the NK was Koba it does have me reread the interaction. While scum probably would be less likely to take that difficult path, it was also a fairly low-risk move on its own, especially if he planned to just NK Koba. I think the best outcome is for PP or KIlga to hammer the other in a lynch, seems guaranteed to flip scum that way. Maybe one of them could claim if they are Saint? Not both just one, and we get the other to hammer that one? Feel free to let me know if you think that's a stupid plan, but I think we should use the set up to maximize our chances here.

wtf is the logic in us + PP?
if this is literally Tux + PP then fuck me and call me Jingles lol

[Night 3 Roses]

If Penpow is a town super saint and Roses is scum, we'd be down to 2v1 going into the night. Scum knows they can safely kill me. So to win, I'd have to NOT be a blank vig AND correctly choose in [Tuxe, Kilga]. Yikes, hopefully that doesn't happen.

you should reread the rules, or am i misreading them?

scum can just roleblock you and make a kill, no?

[Night 3 Roses]

Can someone summarize the case against N3R? I've been feeling pretty good about them for a while.

So hoctac,if your solve is Tux + us, why are you ignoring Kilga's request for the case on us? He should be town according to you so why aren't you talking to Kilga about this?

[Night 3 Roses]

wtf is the logic in us + PP?
if this is literally Tux + PP then fuck me and call me Jingles lol

Just based on how things have shaken out I feel the teams must be Hocatac and Kilga or PP and you. You two have also consistently town read each other with minimal actual interaction. Also, I feel like you may be pocketing me, you keep grabbing quotes of mine and just saying "+1" or "tux is town" which just makes me nervous.

Lastly, there is this...

Spoiler:

hardclaim Night 3 Bulletproof

VOTE: clidd



-D

Isn't it a semi-common tell for scum to rvs their partners?

I mean, -D explained where the townread came from. There didn't need to be much much interaction here.
Do you think our townread on you is unjustified? Do you feel like you shouldn't be townread?

Tho I fully understand LYLO-paranoia

Also are you actually serious with that half-shadey accusation on the RVS between Dats and Clidd? Because if you are, you should probably check out their history in games together...

[Night 3 Roses]

Like Tuxey, what are you trying to do to solve? In 1091, you're not reading into the implications of me suggesting that people should think that, and are instead asking Penpow like it'll help you solve his alignment. How will it?

Also, I find your solve to be a little simplistic. From your PoV, I could totally see Penpow + Hoctac. We've shaded each other but Penpow is pushing Kilga to be lynched, while I'm kinda all over the place and certainly haven't committed to Penpow being lynched.

Calling out others on not solving while you are 'solving' by combining literally every single possible team out there. And when pressed, you just say 'i'm not sure about any scumread'.

Nice

[Night 3 Roses]

Just the fact Roses and Penpow were cool with Kilga at the start of the day. Should look at who of the two of [Roses,Penpow] started pushing Kilga first, and who tagged along, since if Kilga is scum, his partner is most likely the person who was second in scumreading him. Since at that point, we have you + 1st person scumreading him, so scum buddy might feel like they have to bus.

Saying we were cool with Kilga at start of day, and then shading for turning on him but not taking into account actual reasons as to why?

I feel this is really just Hoctac + Kilga who are trying to end it here and now. I think I was spot-on about Tux being their target all along. Hoctac is clearly trying to break up the townreads on Tux.

[Night 3 Roses]

Sigh, good point.

for someone who keeps insisting Tux is scum, you agree with him an awfull lot

[Night 3 Roses]

what initial response, kilga?

[Night 3 Roses]

i'm confused and not sure what ur asking tbh

[Night 3 Roses]

i'm gonna let Datisi answer because she wrote it and i literally am not understanding what ur asking

[Night 3 Roses]

y'all making me account jump on mobile smdh

i took his "main" point to be your trajectories on his own slot and Tuxedo's

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

combination of gut + the way you reacted to split claims + *stuff that we've gone through as NAI*

is there a point to this?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

VOTE: kilga

[Night 3 Roses]

[Night 3 Roses]

kilga you better be a bomb bruh

[Night 3 Roses]

i want this nice and clean

[Night 3 Roses]

live footage of Iconeum after the Pengu FINALLY voted



gonna be honest, datisi was worried until the very last second that it was a big brain gamble from PP to out us

[Night 3 Roses]

fuck ico you were scum?

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

I never should have listened to you in the PT.

we had a pt?

damn i think i missed out

-ico

[Night 3 Roses]

omg datisi called it on your claim

[Night 3 Roses]

oh i see

welllll it's kinda important :p

[Night 3 Roses]

Let me have this after 9 days of absolute hell.

we felt terrible for doing this to you... we really did

[Night 3 Roses]

huh, didn't occur to me at all that "self-destruct" could mean a supersaint too...

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

huh, didn't occur to me at all that "self-destruct" could mean a supersaint too...

-D

WAIT NOW YOU TELL ME THIS!!!??!!!

[Night 3 Roses]

I TOOK "SELF-DESTRUCT" AS A BOMB SOFT REEEEEE

-D

pedit: i googled it lol
is it any good?

[Night 3 Roses]

is that DLC or is that pay-to-win? might check it out if it's the former

pedit: will take a look later, currently at some fancy lunch with guests. where is george...

-D

[Night 3 Roses]

alright, that sounds fair i think

zzz i'm getting drunk again
this was fun
i love y'all ok

-D