Micro 938: Butterfly Mafia [game over]

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Rectiplanes

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Rectiplanes

Get back in here and play with us.

I'm back in here, what are we playing? Is it Candy Land? I'm pretty awesome at Candy Land.

[Umlaut]

You may be surprised to learn that that is not an actual photograph of a real worm, the image is in fact manipulated

[Umlaut]

Can somebody make an accusation against me so that I have reason to mysteriously disappear and stop spamming the thread?

I was honestly about to vote you here and then you fastposted me.

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

That's actually kind of sheepworthy.

[Umlaut]

Umlaut, what are your reads so far?

• Lucky was pinging me a bit with the over-the-top I'm-so-wackiness but is a mild townread now that I've seen him using that to get and push a read.
  
• You're like just barely scummy for Lucky's reason (the first one, I don't think asking me for reads is AI).
  
• Everyone else is still just whatever.

pedit

like ten new posts, going to post this and then read them.

[Umlaut]

Umlaut, what are your reads so far?

yes, i read so far.

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey for being the least fun person to post so far.

and my picture is an actual photo taken very recently of me. if anything ive lost weight since then.

Hey, I was definitely the least fun person to post, take that back.

Also not a huge fan of this random vote onto a not-actually-random wagon, what's your read on Monkey?

[Umlaut]

I'm going to

VOTE: Umlaut

because I don't like his style so far: the bare vote without a joke for me to start, the mild sheep/townread of Lucky when I don't see good reasons for doing that this early, I dunno, you feel like you're going through a list of things you planned on doing or something. No real pop or life/vibe to it, which is a feel I've gotten from everyone else in one way or another.

I was kind of hoping you'd ask about or somehow react to the bare vote instead of just voting me for it, actually.

I think I just disagree about how good a reason I need to move from a pretty much random vote.

[Umlaut]

t'was page 2. i dont have reads yet, nor am i attempting to have reads yet. except lucky. hes definitely town.

I mean, okay, but did you just at random pick the person who coincidentally happened to have the biggest wagon?

[Umlaut]

Um yeah

VOTE: Looker

The entirety of the off wagon vote was town!

It's either (Knightmare, Umlaut, Votato), I think. Probably both scum are in those three.

Why are you giving the hammerer a free pass here?

[Umlaut]

Is intentionally misquoting a thing now? Do I have to be on the lookout for fake news?

There are at least four town power roles still alive

is what I meant.

I am on the phone and it is driving me crazy eating posts and randomly cutting off the internet so I am having to retype stuff, sorry.

What makes you say

there are four town prs left?

What's the misquote? Unless you think there are maybe 5 town PRs left which would make Cakez the only VT in the game, which I just don't believe.

[Umlaut]

Oh.

That is kind of bad but it seems more like an honest misread? I don't see why anyone would deliberately misrep something so easily checkable.

[Umlaut]

My vote is on looker until he's lynched or it's clear he isn't getting lynched, no mercy for quickhammers.

That said,

I'm not throwing bs shade, if you noticed I didn't vote you. You're asking dumb question + needless role fishing. I'm pretty sure Planes will clarify everything because there is no other way of moving this day forward after what he said. So there is no need to ask.

This is pretty obtuse, you don't have to vote someone to throw shade at them.

[Umlaut]

Anyways lynch on wagon today.

Agree with this. But on inspection of the VC, this really just means "don't lynch me or my mod-confirmed greencheck" so...

[Umlaut]

Was going to make a tiered read list but it came out pretty short.

{LuckyLuciano, Rectiplanes, Hoctac}
{Looker, votato, Knightmare491}

Lucky is town because he is, Planes and Hoctac just because I buy the claim (otherwise they'd be in the null zone)

Honestly I think if we just lynch the bottom three we win.

[Umlaut]

Knightmare, I don't like you hedging your read on votato here. You keep pointing out things that are suspect, which is the same as saying they're scummy, so you should be scumreading him, but you seem reluctant to actually say that outright. Do you think he's scum or not?

[Umlaut]

These claims are making my head hurt

I'm going to wait until you're both saying the same thing at least before I try to evaluate them.

[Umlaut]

So, to be clear on this

If Planes is town then Hoctac has to be town
If Hoctac is town then Planes could still be scum

So (assuming no one is full of shit) you're like half-masons?

pedit[/i] yeah, what votato said.

[Umlaut]

pedit[/i]

Quoting this to save everyone else the trouble

[Umlaut]

This is the most complicated way to say "masons" I ever heard

[Umlaut]

I mean, they'd be Informed Neighbor, but I could buy that?

[Umlaut]

we should probably lynch them both just to be sure. especially if one of them flips town.

[Umlaut]

Looker seems to have bailed, he's been on site but hasn't posted here.

[Umlaut]

I mean I think he's basically claimed scum at this point but let's see if there's anything people want to do/say today.

[Umlaut]

I have? Where? Where have you seen me on site...? That's a pretty cheap lie.

I thought I saw you had posts on the site after this day started. I may have forgotten how recently this day started.

Admittedly, I am a scum's wet dream

Why would you say this

[Umlaut]

Math says Votato is (probably) not the scum I'm looking for. Math also likes LL for town, which backs up my feelings. Hoctac is conftown, so am I.

I would like to see this math.

(No really, professional math dork here, I wanna see the math)

[Umlaut]

I mean, the unemployed kind tbh, but until recently I designed math models for slot machines.

[Umlaut]

Planes, I just don't understand why you're giving Looker a pass here. This

A vote on me is straight up trolling after the events of today. So is quickhammering the Monkey. Looker is remarkably consistent and game-legible for someone who has a grand total of two posts.

...

Assuming Looker is not Super King Openwolf it's pretty much Knightmare/Umlaut by PoE.

reads like it's just "too scummy to be scum" which is a bad tell. It's only bad scumplay if it gets him lynched, if we dismiss the obvious explanation for being obvious then it's great scumplay.

I need to reread to distinguish between Knightmare/votato, I feel like either could be scum but I have to figure out if both could be scum if it's not Looker.

[Umlaut]

Hmmm... i dont think both looker and knightmare are scum. But i also think there has to be one scum in there.

Why not?

[Umlaut]

D:

?

[Umlaut]

I don't think there really is a case beyond PoE, which is fair. I haven't really been efforting like I should.

[Umlaut]

@Planes, @anyone who's town reading looker

Is anyone actually townreading Looker besides maybe Planes? Because I don't recall anyone saying that but he sure is still alive.

[Umlaut]

@Planes, @anyone who's town reading looker

Is anyone actually townreading Looker besides maybe Planes? Because I don't recall anyone saying that but he sure is still alive.

Trying to answer my own question here:

• Planes' 291 seems to imply a townread, though I don't really get it
  
• Hoctac is saying he's a PL candidate but not really claiming he's probscum
  per se
  
  
• Knightmare is clearly saying he's scum
  
• votato is saying in 361 just now that he's scum

but I'm the only one voting him.

[Umlaut]

oh, and Lucky has said nothing about Looker today and has really said nothing at all since the claims were settled.

Actually I'm starting to lose faith on Lucky, someone remind me why he's town?

[Umlaut]

Just gonna respond to the part aimed at me and think about the rest:

• @Umlaut: Maybe no one wants to openly commit to a mislynch. Maybe they don't have the balls that I did.
  • I also think it's funny that you said "Lucky hasn't said anything today, but, MORE SPECIFICALLY, he hasn't said anything about LOOKER!"

Lucky has said things today, though, just not since the roleclaims solidified. He hasn't said anything about you at all, before or after that.

Why would you "openly commit to a mislynch" anyway?

[Umlaut]

This sort of stuff is why I have a harder time with Looker being scum than Knightmare or Umlaut. Yeah, Looker's activity is often anti-town. It's also, however, blatantly

anti-scum

if he's scum. For whatever reason, he's decided that Hoctac and I are lying about pretty much everything connected with our roles - but literally the second we die, everything we said about each other is confirmed, and if he were scum, he'd know this. He can't lead us to a lynch (because he'd be proven wrong) and he can't have us killed (because he'd be proven wrong) and he can't really leave us alive (because we're sure as fuck confirmed to each other and you don't want such a pseudo-masonry around at LyLo) which leaves what for scum-Looker?

Looker NKs you or Hoctac tonight
"Oops, I guess they're town after all"
Looker just pushes whoever tomorrow

How is this not a way out?

[Umlaut]

OK, let's look at that world. We lynch Knightmare today, Hoctac or I gets whacked tomorrow, leaving us with:

(Rectiplanes/Hoctac)

, Votato, LuckyLuciano, Umlaut, Looker.

If

Knightmare

flips scum:

• Votato looks much better
  Umlaut looks somewhat better
  Looker looks even more scuzzy
  Unless someone gets some kind of investigative result
  We hang Looker; if wrong, we used up our last mislynch (but that's fine, do you want town-Looker at three-person LyLo?)

If

Knightmare

flips town:

• Then Looker pretty much has to be Super King Openwolf regardless of his partner, hang him.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding because it sounds like you're saying

• if Knightmare is scum then that makes Looker more likely scum, and
  
• if Knightmare is town then that makes Looker more likely scum.

This seems contradictory. If your read is going to move in the same direction regardless of the evidence then why do you need to wait on the evidence to move it?

[Umlaut]

Looker, I also want that readlist Hoctac mentioned, if that makes a difference.

• @Umlaut: They're not, which is why I haven't been killed yet

What is this answering?

• @Lucky: I was definitely supposed to vote for Rectiplanes yesterday - it was the more reasonable or practical approach.

I want to clarify if you're saying your hammer was an accident because I don't believe that for a second the way you're posting today.

[Umlaut]

Going to just reiterate: the best explanation for Looker being so blatantly and aggressively anti-town is that Looker's wincon is not that of the town

Whatever his definition of "better vote" is, it doesn't include maximizing the town's winning chances and he's pretty much said as much.

[Umlaut]

I'm pretty much certain this isn't twilight, but I'm just confident enough Looker flips red that I don't really see the need to unvote. Who are you afraid will hammer?

[Umlaut]

I was like 28 already when Club Penguin was a thing, I'm surprised you didn't find me creepier.

I don't see scum!Votato talking about how scummy quickhammering would be, followed by quickhammering

[Umlaut]

yeah. if he really double-voted to hammer after two ICs explicitly said not to, then thats pretty scummy. yeah. obviously not confirmed, but...

also, OP says this is a normal game. i dont think double-voter is a normal role (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game). that means lucky is lying.

Where does the OP say this? I thought I remembered signing up for a normal game but I can't find anything saying so in the rules.

[Umlaut]

yeah. if he really double-voted to hammer after two ICs explicitly said not to, then thats pretty scummy. yeah. obviously not confirmed, but...

also, OP says this is a normal game. i dont think double-voter is a normal role (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game). that means lucky is lying.

Also on closer inspection I really don't like that post, seems like one too many reasons for disbelief. If you already think Doublevoter is impossible why would you speculate on what doublevoting for real implies about Lucky's alignment?

[Umlaut]

Maybe my old friend Umlaut is scum

Lucky is town because he is

Why were you townreading Lucky at this point?

Honestly I don't really remember. I think probably primarily for level of engagement, looking back at his posts from D1.

[Umlaut]

yeah. if he really double-voted to hammer after two ICs explicitly said not to, then thats pretty scummy. yeah. obviously not confirmed, but...

also, OP says this is a normal game. i dont think double-voter is a normal role (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game). that means lucky is lying.

Also on closer inspection I really don't like that post, seems like one too many reasons for disbelief. If you already think Doublevoter is impossible why would you speculate on what doublevoting for real implies about Lucky's alignment?

Good point! Vote votato?

I might do, if I'm convinced Looker's not going to happen. But I really think Looker needs to happen.

[Umlaut]

tbf, none of us are really sure if this is really twilight.

why vote me though?

This seems to indicate you at least sort of thought the setup could allow for a doublevoter.

[Umlaut]

I guess that checks out. It still pings me but -shrug-

What's your actual read on Lucky atm?

[Umlaut]

yeah im definitely paranoid. but of the four scummy people, I've narrowed it to two that are actually scum, and one useless asshat (well really two) that we can afford to mislynch. Or I'm wrong about it being KM and lucky and it is looker with umlaut. either way, the game is more or less solved.

Who are the two useless asshats we can afford to mislynch? I assume one is Looker, and you say the other is not me or Lucky.

If I read this right you're saying that if it's not exactly {KM, Lucky} then it's exactly {Looker, Umlaut}? But what do your KM and Lucky reads have to do with one another?

[Umlaut]

Let me get this straight, you two are assuming the scumteam is Votato/Looker, both of them YOLOscum without a plan just running around playing Calvinball?

I was going to say I'm not assuming that (if I were assuming it I wouldn't be asking questions, I'd just be saying "let's lynch votato") but honestly what I'm going to say is that I really don't have a problem with that idea.

[Umlaut]

I couldn't remember where the votes were at so I did a thing.

SUPER NOT OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT THAT DIDN'T COME FROM THE MOD AND THAT YOU SHOULDN'T TRUST (but that I think is accurate)

votato

(2): Knightmare491, Hoctac

Looker

(2): Umlaut, Rectiplanes

Knightmare491

(1): votato

Rectiplanes

(1): Looker

Not Voting

(1): LuckyLuciano

I honestly agree with votato here that Lucky isn't a lynch candidate today but I'm not so sure Knightmare is anymore either looking at this.

[Umlaut]

okay, that was super wrong, missed the posts that happened while I was formatting

SLIGHTLY LESS WRONG VOTECOUNT MAYBE

Looker

(3): Umlaut, Rectiplanes, votato

votato

(2): Knightmare491, Hoctac

Rectiplanes

(1): Looker

Not Voting

(1): LuckyLuciano

[Umlaut]

votato turning around and voting outside of the scumpool he just gave is kind of wtf, but since I was literally about to argue he should do exactly that...

[Umlaut]

Like a whole lot of people have just been talking about the possibility of a Looker/votato team specifically, and if I suppose that that's exactly the team then I can easily see votato deciding now that his only hope is to try and "disprove" it by busing.

[Umlaut]

Should we massclaim? I want to leave that up to Planes here but it seems like a reasonable thing to do.

[Umlaut]

Another VT here.

Thinking it has to be {votato, Lucky}. In any case it has to be Lucky because there is just no way {Knightmare, votato} is the team.

[Umlaut]

Prodge. Not voting in until everyone has said their piece. Lucky asking why I didn't insta-vote in lylo is funny.

[Umlaut]

Prodge. Not voting in until everyone has said their piece. Lucky asking why I didn't insta-vote in lylo is funny.

Do you have a piece to say, or are you just hanging out?

I will eventually, but I've been uncharacteristically busy IRL the last couple days. Meaning to go back and re-read interactions between you and Knightmare and between you and votato but that takes -effort-

[Umlaut]

Okay, fine, I guess I'll effort.

Spoiler: Lucky-votato interactions, Day 1

All of these are pretty much goofing off but they're still worth taking a look at.

the next person to vote cakez gets to control my vote for 72 hours and be townread for the remainder of day 1.

UNVOTE: Monkey. VOTE: Cakez. You're vote is staying on Monkey, Donkey.

UNVOTE: Cakez. VOTE: Monkey. Back to the srs wagon.

ok, mr confirmed town.

Also not a huge fan of this random vote onto a not-actually-random wagon, what's your read on Monkey?

t'was page 2. i dont have reads yet, nor am i attempting to have reads yet. except lucky. hes definitely town.

Not really doing much for me here either way, could believe this joking around as coming from any combination of alignments.

Thanks Votato. I'll make sure not to lynch you before LYLO. I need to make some coffee. This has been known to take anyway from several hours to several days. Do recruit more support for the Monkey wagon while I'm gone, thank you.

Lucky and i are starting a town bandwagon against the dirty rotten scum known as humaneatingmonkey. if youre a townie and you know whats good for you, youll join.

was that good lucky? give me feedback in the pt. do you think they bought it?

Wait, you are in a mafia PT with Monkey

and

another one with me? Are we playing multiball? And if so, how many mafias do you win with?

im the

mafia ladies' man

. I can start a scum PT with anyone at any time for any reason. but lucky is my actual scumbuddy.

Moving to a "Lucky and I are scum together" gag and at the time I felt this was already getting old...

yes lets let bygones be bygones and play the game at hand instead. attempt to distance is noted tho.

Hey, you're supposed to be on my side, Donkey.

Oh, I see what you did there. By saying that I'm distancing from Recti, you were distancing from me. Well played, partner.

...and now it's really getting old. Honestly looking at this now I can sort of see it as "would scumbuddies actually describe themselves as scumbuddies like this?" posturing, especially considering votato really did nothing else during the (admittedly short) day at all.

i believe that's l-1. Tread lightly

You put him at L-1 earlier unannounced. Hush Donkey.

Consider this atonement

Again, nothing here to rule out SvS but nothing really to rule it in either.

Spoiler: Lucky-votato interactions, Day 2 (but then I stopped in the middle)

On the topic of atonement, Monkey has some sins to atone for.

I have the ability to vote twice. I'm declaring intent to hammer on Monkey.

lucky, what does the first post here mean? and was that a joke about double-voting? or was that a claim?

This is a pretty weaksauce question for Lucky here, compared to votato's pressure on Knightmare at around the same time. I also note Lucky never addresses these questions, and votato never follows up on them (at least until much later when Lucky makes the same role claim), which makes me wonder if he really cared. To be totally fair, votato seemed tunneled on Knightmare at the time, which is a plausible reason for dropping that line of questioning.

Best friends exist. Hoctac, are you informed that Recti is town?

fine fine fine feine fienfeif nefinefinenfe

Yeah, Recti's telling the truth, I was trying to backtrack the claim and not make us confirmed town to scum. It's okay, Recti, but the roles we're backups for aren't guaranteed to be town, so we can't form this conftown block.

so you are informed that recti is town?

Yeah

Thanks, Donkey. Page 11 was so bad it made me zone out.

Again, could be any alignment speaking with any alignment. I will say if they are both scum there's a

chance

votato would prefer to explain this in the PT, but I'm not making much of that.

lucky has also turned into lurkyluciano

Pretty neutral observation here.

Votato

- I agree with Umlaut (75). Votato's vote is really bad here. Combine this with 235 Where Votato is FoSing Knightmare for putting a player at L-1 during RVS unannounaced. Votato has also extensively posted nullspew. In other words, he participated in the shenanigans of D1 without ever moving the game forward. In contrast, other player's memeing led them to develop reads. Some of the posts that stick out are: 69, 83, 91, 129, 135. The only time he starts making reads 162 is when a town wagon is back at L-1, and those reads are pushing the wag on towards a lynch.
83 is interesting to look back on. Making that move makes a lot of sense as mafia, given the wagons available at the time of his offer were Cakez, Monkey, and Recti. All town wagons. It's unlikely that his vote would be used to wagon mafia.
Day 2 isn't much better for Votato. Actually, it's worse. He doesn't really answer Knightmare's points. He dismisses them and pushes Knightmare as if it answers back Knightmare's concerns (208, 219, 228, 243,
Also, 232 and 248 look like a chainsaw and a half.

Looker

- 314 Indicates that he intended to vote Rectiplanes, not Monkey. However, 176 comes across as Looker knowing that he was ending the day phase with his vote. Further, 288 comes from the mindset that Monkey was the correct vote, particularly,

VOTE: looker

wtf was that for?

Did you not think he was scum? You put him at L-1.

Looker straight lied about his D1 quickhammer. Votato is simultaneously chainsaw defending Looker with an attack on Knightmare while keeping Looker inexplicably in his PoE. Is this not the most obvious scumteam of all time? I dunno, but I have no desire to form deeper reads on Knightmare and Umlaut when the mafia already claimed mafia. VOTE: Votato. I don't really care who we lynch first between Votato and Looker, let's just hurry up and end this game.

I will say, if the team is {Lucky, votato} then this is not just distancing but a straight-up hard bus. It's notable here that Lucky has another scumread at least equally strong in Looker here, but votes votato, when I'm pretty sure both were at one vote at the time and so this had the chance of influencing a wagon. I do note that Lucky gated this read a bit in that Looker's flipping green would be a reason to weaken it, but he doesn't seem to have actually done that.

Also, Votato's push on me is literally just IIOA, and poorly put at that. D1 was less than 12 hours long. I've been gone for a day and a half. Sue me. Votato also sounds like he knows that Knightmare is going to flip town and is making some weird pivot from leading the push to following Recti on the same fucking push as if it'll distance him from the flip.

Likewise, this seems really unnecessary unless Lucky genuinely wanted to lynch votato.

lucky: compare my ISO to yours. how are they different? the only difference I see is that I've actually contributed today. I don't know that I'm really on the table for a lynch today, but you're probably right that i need to step up my read game. im just a bit demotivated for this game after d1. i feel like the whole game is a bit sluggish today. It's interesting to note that you're defending knightmare. very interesting. I'm ok with testing your theory by lynching someone i scumread: looker. also interesting that you attack me for a PoE that if you're right would result in a scum win, when you present a PoE that if you're wrong would result in a scum win. It seems that the problem lies not in my PoE but having any PoE and being wrong.

"Oh no, you can't scum read me because that would make

you

scum!"

It's really cool how you are demotivated after D1 when you willingly participated in,

and promoted

the shitposting in D1. Is it the quickhammer that demotivated you? Yeah, that must be Knightmare's fault for putting Monkey at L-1 unannounced. It's not like you put Monkey at L-1 far sooner, also unannounced. Oh wait, you did.

votato's defense is pretty crap here but so is Lucky's followup -- they're accusing the other of hypocrisy but not really trying to get or further a read out of it as far as I can see.

Anyways.

UNVOTE: Knightmare

VOTE: Looker

Only reason Looker was off my shortlist was because I felt his play was too insanely suicidal/openwolf to actually be scum.

Have reconsidered that; I'm OK with taking the vote.

Cool. UNVOTE: Votato. VOTE: Looker. L-1.

intent to hammer. working on a longer post about why lucky is wrong about myself and knightmare. or just lying. won't hammer until there's consensus that we're ready tho. and i still wanna give looker an opportunity to speak

Not really a Lucky-votato interaction per se, but I will say Lucky moved his vote pretty readily here. I don't want to read too much into that since he said he was just as happy with either lynch and since I don't think town was going to agree on anyone else here. It does require me to discount the "damn Lucky definitely wanted votato dead" reaction to 397 though.

Okay I have to go to bed pretty much right this second, more tomorrow evening probably

[Umlaut]

Spoiler: Lucky-votato interactions, Day 2 (continued)

ok lucky, im not sure what game you're reading, but that narrative isnt remotely accurate. here's what really happened (note that most posts have been excluded, but i feel that this is a representative sample):

[long list of posts establishing that votato pushed Knightmare]

sorry, thats a really long wall. but what lucky said just isnt true.

lucky: while we're sitting here, care to address the wallpost i made?

@Votato, not really.

This is really off. If Lucky is interested in arguing that votato is scum, he ought to respond to that wall if only to reiterate his case. If votato wants his wall addressed, he should be at least somewhat indignant when Lucky blows him off.

Fuck it, I'm done with this idiot. VOTE: Looker. VOTE: Looker. I used my double vote, he's hammered.

is that a meme?

i hope thats a meme

It's not. I said before that my role is to double vote.

-shrug-

My solve rn is {Km, lucky}. I don't like how they've buddied, i don't like KM's thought process, lucky's case on me was god-awful. But looker is also so damn scummy. and then there's you over here lurking away. But a solve requires two, and the two i see are KM and lucky.

That's the worst possible way to say, "I have 4 scumreads".

yeah im definitely paranoid. but of the four scummy people, I've narrowed it to two that are actually scum, and one useless asshat (well really two) that we can afford to mislynch. Or I'm wrong about it being KM and lucky and it is looker with umlaut. either way, the game is more or less solved.

"I've narrowed down the PoE from 'everyone' to, 'everyone who isn't an IC'"

"Within this group, I have split it between people who are probably scum, and people who look scummy enough that we can mislynch them, and I'm okay with mislynching them for reasons."

If Lucky and votato are scum together then it's sort of surprising Lucky would keep picking on votato here, but not if we've already established the plan is to powerbus votato.

lucky doesn't appear to be on the table here. I'm down for that lynch too. Also lynching him doesn't do as much to solve the game. Lynching km gives a 95% solve, looker an 85% solve, but lucky gives like a 60% solve. Km and looker give poe on each other. A lucky lynch doesn't give that

I honestly just don't even understand what kind of position votato is giving on Lucky here. He should want to lynch whoever he most thinks is scum, and even if he's scum he should want to lynch whoever he

says

he most thinks is scum, but here he is bringing up "I really want to lynch Lucky" but like not even trying to make a case there. I suppose I can appreciate Looker as a survival vote though.

A couple of general conclusions here:

• votato is way scummier individually than Lucky is.
  
• If the team is {Lucky, votato}, then Lucky is not just distancing but hard-busing his partner and has been doing so since Day 2.
  
• I could believe scum!Lucky would hard-bus his partner, if his partner were as scummy as votato.
  
• I need to reconsider the {Knightmare, votato} possibility, since my whole aversion to it was based on assuming it was unlikely scum would fight their buddy so hard. One way or another, scum fought their buddy so hard, so I have to think more about which is most likely.

[Umlaut]

Knightmare: It's {Lucky, Votato}
Also Knightmare: The scummy thing Votato just did isn't

that

scummy.

Why is this actually bad? Do you think it's good town play to regard everything their scumread does as maximally scummy, or do you just think it's what town are most likely to do for some reason?

[Umlaut]

I'll think some more about that.

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Oh, and if Knightmare really thinks his solve could be wrong, he would be trying to sort Umlaut. He hasn't been doing that because he's waiting to hear Recti's take before defining a stance. Let's get Knightmare's read on Umlaut before Recti gives his solve.

This is a fair point though, I honestly have no idea what Knightmare thinks of me atm and he seemed to switch into joke mode as soon as Lucky asked a real question.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

[Umlaut]

You were right, that test was quite conclusive.

[Umlaut]

I hate lurking to victory as scum and I feel like that's what I did this game :/ at least until I started efforting a bit at the end there. Looker kind of made it easy for me to coast.

[Umlaut]

yeah. if he really double-voted to hammer after two ICs explicitly said not to, then thats pretty scummy. yeah. obviously not confirmed, but...

also, OP says this is a normal game. i dont think double-voter is a normal role (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game). that means lucky is lying.

Where does the OP say this? I thought I remembered signing up for a normal game but I can't find anything saying so in the rules.

This is my favorite post of mine in the game

because I told votato in the PT that it was a normal game, then came in here and started giving him shit for saying so

[Umlaut]

No objection to releasing scum PT as is

Hoctac, I don't think I'm quite the master of scumplay I was in my Club Penguin days but it's nice that you remember.

[Umlaut]

I'm confused as to what making the best friends backups accomplished vs. just making them informed townies?

I might have given town a little more power if it were my setup. I could imagine like Town Best Friends + Town Doctor + Mafia 1-Shot Rolestopper as balanced maybe, since mafia can take out at least one of the BFs but at the cost of fully confirming the other and heading for a 1v1 endgame. But ultimately I don't think this game was decided by the setup balance so it's fine.

[Umlaut]

And yeah, if the designer and two reviewers all agreed it was balanced enough to play I'm not going to argue too hard about it. Thanks for a smoothly moderated game, Datisi.