Micro 942: Blood on the Clocktower - Game Over

[Auro]

After that display of self voting and unvoting from Ele without any other content it's just hard to keep him as town in my head. So I'm questioning myself. I'm unsure.

a stupid decision, then.

No. A lack of vote is a delayed decision, which is usually better.

[Auro]

I can choose to vote or abstain, and if you're town then scum+Minion have to vote you by deadline.

[Auro]

Yes, so let's see who the other is

[Auro]

Elements, bro, doing those without any explanation whatsoever comes off as super scummy. You do realize that, right?

The "preserving dead votes" reasoning is kinda and if you talked about it then it would've been different. Self-voting and then unvoting right before deadline is a reaaaallly bad look and I'll feel very if my tactic to shift the execution to Nahdia failed because of your own doing and we lose the game. My heart still tells me you're town, of course, but I can't defend this. .>.

@A50: You're correct that I'll hold the decision on Nahdia, however I don't think I want to be in that position. Firebringer should probably be replaced (I don't care that he's dead, BoTC players should be actively involved all game and especially LyLo), I dunno. I think Nahdia's 90+% scum but don't want to execute Nahdia on that 10% chance as my own decision.

[Auro]

I get your point but uhhh I feel like you've been absent in a way for long in a manner that doesn't leave me with much ground to defend you with, and also erodes my confidence in the Nahdia+Skitter solve if you get what I mean

Honestly I'll just leave this to Insomnia and Firebringer/replacement

[Auro]

Unfortunately that doesn't make scum town and town scum

[Auro]

Nahdia|Skitter

[Auro]

either way good

Elements demon -> I win
Nahdia|Skitter -> I count it as personal win, PLUS I will be blind to all your AtE in the future
Elbirn demon -> time to retire

[Auro]

Wow. The RNGods hate me

[Auro]

The {} part was a reference to LyLo, not tried
Also effort is a noun and some people don't seem to like it when you "adapt" it into a verb

[Auro]

3 hours. So, anyone else apart from A50 interested in a Nahdia execute?
If not then I can't get her executed anyway so I can rest in peace

[Auro]

[Auro]

Actually, you can't count on me executing Nahdia. You'd need both Insomnia AND Fb to miraculously show up and then you'd have to deal with convincing them both

That is what I meant when I said "I can't get her executed anyway"

[Auro]

@A50: In absence of {someone else willing to join} it's better you not hurt right now.
If Elements is the Demon (which is extremely low % to me but a possibility anyway) scum can force a tie.
If Nahdia is the Demon nothing happens anyway.

So we may as well take the Elements execution when no one else is on board for Nahdia.

[Auro]

Elements already has his vote down, from his PoV it's a guarantee Nahdia's scum anyway.
Yeah, Inso/FB are absent, I don't think I can convince Drixx at the moment, and Elbirn much rather prefers Elements anyway.
Skitter being Nahdia's partner wouldn't vote her, also she already expended her vote on Elements

See you post game A50! Nahdia can you say you're not nominating so game ends?

[Auro]

I would execute Elbirn for the lulz

[Auro]

It's kinda evident that Nahdia's scum now, no?
I just quickly jotted down notes, anyway:

1. What is Elements' partner doing? A50 doesn't even seem to care much, he left that vote as a favor to me and then retracted it anyway. Absolutely no panic in this thread apart from me.
2. Skitter voted Elements inspite of their townread with a "ahhhhhhhh sorry :/", conveniently forgot that a Minion execution was a waste last day, and that Nahdia+A50 makes much more mechanical sense than Elements today
3. Skitter jumped on Elements' weird play (which I can't defend easily) pretty aggressively, and is way too comfortable with her vote
4. Why do you guys suppose the Undertaker was killed N1 over the Monk? Imp was more afraid of Drixx's "Chef or drunk" result when Skitter had 0 neighboring pairs as a result, over a Monk who could negate any NK? (Hint: if Skitter was Minion, Drixx's result would've made it much harder for the scumteam)
5. Nahdia nominated Skitter D1, BUT she soft defended Skitter during that nomination phase pretty hard. She panicked, and also requested a private thread just with Skitter. Fishy, no?
6. Nahdia requested a PT with Skitter only again the next day. Outside of LyLo these were the only 2-person requests outside the IC.
7. I was creating self-associations with Nahdia today and both Drixx and Elbirn got , Skitter didn't even react to it
8. Skitter apparently did some meta study, but comes out with nothing convincing? The best she's got is something along the lines of Nahdia's play being different from other scumgames, and Ame's scumrange being broader than she thought. These do not feel like legitimate conclusions, rather emptyposts just to fit more comfortably with her agenda.

[Auro]

My biggest tactical mistake was probably the Drixx scumread and arguing that a Drixx NK was good. Although I do feel it was good in that I might have wasted an execution on Drixx via scumread by play, in retrospect he would've gotten that result, and the lack of NK should have stopped me.

[Auro]

Anyway, the nomination phase ended I see: Nahdia, if you're scum can you just claim no nominate so the game ends?

[Auro]

A50, so you WERE town right?

[Auro]

Well, a huge reason for the pocket was my very strong belief in Skitter being the Minion! Outside of that I would've been way more comfortable with the idea that you were Minion in my head.
Even then, I read it as A50+Nahdia, so I didn't really care much; but if it's A50+Elements then I was pretty wrong

Skitter, why would you waste an execution on A50 when we could've had consecutive shots on Nahdia and Elements for the win I basically took that as a scumclaim from you

[Auro]

Also, I don't get the Monk fakeclaim as Minion after Firebringer IC'd: conflicts apart, if a NK on your target went through that's a scumclaim anyway. What prompted you to choose that particular fakeclaim?

I'm assuming this is what Nahdia meant when she said I'd be surprised, although I wouldn't be surprised if it's you+Nahdia, I'd be surprised if it's you+Elements that would require an exact series of Poisons, right?

[Auro]

As Minion you'd *want* to get executed as the game goes on though! You eat up one of the available executions, and therefore it's a pretty fine idea to play the jester. Of course, you would want to survive to later stages though.

The correct play for Demon outside this would be to claim a free information role (similar to Elbirn's Washerwoman) and then "accidentally" let out that you're role X. A little risky, but I don't think people would have minded too much, and it negates at least that part of the strategy

[Auro]

I guess I should have gone for Saint, maybe??

You can't have claimed Saint because you had already claimed Not Outsider. As Minion, yes, it would've been good play to claim Saint much earlier - that even prevents Fire from getting confirmed! And the resulting paranoia means town doesn't want to execute you, and you can tailor your play to get scummier and scummier with time, and perhaps eat up the LyLo execution to hand your team the win... oh my, that would have been exciting to watch.

[Auro]

I still have to come to terms with this (assuming you're saying the truth, of course)

Apologies @ Skitter for the heaviest tunnel I've ever had and getting you executed D1, lol. And Skitter's such a nice sport too for not hating me through all this A learning experience, I guess.

Well, you live, you play and you learn. Thanks for the tip.

Btw, I was a Poisoner indeed, and the NK never hit someone I poisoned. In fact, my p ALWAYS hit the one I wanted then to hit. We didn't need a Scum PT. It was like.. telepathy.

You'd have to be a Poisoner mechanically I believe. I hope X conducts a larger version of this. I'll be happy to have more strategy talk anytime, btw.

[Auro]

Oh yes, games where everyone is competent as both alignments and also active would be a treat to play in

I'm kinda burnt out from playing scum though and that makes me not want to sign up for games

[Auro]

Anyway, this conversation has been pretty amusing. Because I'm the Minion lol, and my bus play on Nahdia worked pretty damn well

[Auro]

Auro always has the last laugh

After the game seemed to just scumread anyone I called town, I figured I could call the most obvious suspect (i.e. you) town which would just fuel this even further, and then continue to reverse psychology people. Since Nahdia was able to charisma pretty easily, and my charisma was having the exact opposite effect, it was pretty easy to abuse.

[Auro]

I would have NEVER guessed you were their Minion.

I was sorta hinting at it with the whole "Minion should eat an execution" thing, did you forget that I proclaimed myself the "mechanically optimum" execution on D2?

[Auro]

Hmmm, what can X not ending the game mean

[Auro]

Holy shit you better not be messing with me Nahdia

[Auro]

so was it Skitter after all?

[Auro]

I summon the moderator to come show us the flip and end the game

[Auro]

If enomis hadn't done that weird vote unvote thing and wrote some words, my gambit would've worked. Sadly it took Elements doing something pretty scummy on the surface to undo everything I did lol

[Auro]

Also, I think you deserve the win anyway, I don't think it's so easy when I'm death tunneling someone. And a lot of town seemed to have no interest in the game, so meh.

[Auro]

Lol, I was totally off base. Sorry Skit+Nahdia!

[Auro]

I was honorary scum.

[Auro]

Wow so A50's Poisons had to follow an exact series of targets for that result. Damn.

[Auro]

I think even I thought that for a while

[Auro]

Actually, why not lynch Ame? She could be Demon, or she could be Minion to Auro/Elbirn, or she could be Minion-turned-into-Demon with Drixx original Demon.

Nominate Ame

HURT: Ame

HURT: Ame

Ame is in the people we need to sort. I think this is correct.

HURT: Ame

Ame stop self-voting .-. why is everyone suicidal here

Yeah so the solution is to NOT kill you or A50, kill someone already useless like me or Elbirn or Insom

Lol^ would've ended the game right there if I hadn't intervened

[Auro]

A50 and I were planning to counterclaim Minion in our PT

[Auro]

Lol you don't need a defense, you played pretty much how you should be playing!

Not just the mechanical burden but even dayplay associative matching with everyone is hard.

-Change to flips, and counterbalance with other roles
-Daytalk for scum
-Normal execution mechanic, no nominations

I think BoTC roles could possibly be adapted to this. I'll try designing one soon.

[Auro]

I look forward to you guys in future games.

[Auro]

In BoTC it's impossible to get to talk to your partner freely without getting suspected for it, whereas in RL it's much easier. Daytalk would also be a pretty good counterbalance to having flips.
Also generally I'm a lot more motivated to play scum when I have a thread to chill out with a trusted scumbuddy in, so I may be biased towards the idea

I'm not really a fan of the extra execution because of dead votes either... I feel like dead people can still be involved with their voice?

[Auro]

I guess, but if you're never going to use your vote till LyLo even then you're not really influencing the game. Maybe honestly just getting out of the game is better. I like games getting leaner with a smaller amount of people, it's easier to focus as well.

[Auro]

I've heard it's an amazing rationalist web novel: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/
Will start reading it soon!

[Auro]

Ten large Stephen King novels? Woah. I assumed it was rationalist because I keep seeing it in recommendations after HP:MoR but I'll read it nonetheless!